In this episode, Danielle Spencer, Federal whistleblower, author, and activist, talks about her journey and her new purpose.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NVG Podcast Network.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:56 Music.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:07 And first of all, welcome to another year.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:13 And it's already starting off bad.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:26 So, you know, we kind of was hoping And, you know, it's still early But the
00:02:26 --> 00:02:29 way that the year started off is not good at all,
00:02:30 --> 00:02:34 And I'm going to address one of the things that happened,
00:02:35 --> 00:02:40 I also want to acknowledge the fact It was mentioned last week in the news that,
00:02:41 --> 00:02:43 President Jimmy Carter died.
00:02:45 --> 00:02:50 And he was the first presidential campaign I followed.
00:02:52 --> 00:02:57 As a young man, I guess I was about 11. He was, you know, that was the first
00:02:57 --> 00:03:03 convention I watched and he was really the first presidential campaign that
00:03:03 --> 00:03:05 he really paid attention to.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:12 I mean, I knew presidents, but not the campaigns. And so 1976 was a very,
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 very interesting year. Of course, it was a bicentennial year, too.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:23 So I always have had a special respect for President Carter,
00:03:24 --> 00:03:29 and especially after he lost to Reagan,
00:03:29 --> 00:03:37 all the work that he did just as a citizen merits special recognition.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:46 And I had a privilege to go to the Carter Center and to read some of the stuff
00:03:46 --> 00:03:51 and see the awards and his life journey and all that.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:58 He lived a great hundred years and I wish to everybody is that,
00:03:58 --> 00:04:06 that you live that long and that you have that much of an impact on the world that you live in.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:11 So we lost a good one, along with several others last year.
00:04:12 --> 00:04:17 But President Carter, considering the nature of this show,
00:04:17 --> 00:04:27 was a major influence and a major impact on how I think, how I tried to govern,
00:04:27 --> 00:04:31 and how I want to live the remainder of my days.
00:04:32 --> 00:04:37 All right. Now that I've said all that. Well, one other thing I want to add.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:43 He he showed what inclusion look like.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 You know, Lyndon Johnson kind of got it going.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:55 As far as in his cabinet and appointments, but Carter took it to the next level
00:04:55 --> 00:05:01 and really opened the door for where we are now, where Democrats and Republicans,
00:05:02 --> 00:05:10 are trying to find competent African-Americans to serve, and some not so competent,
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 but we won't get into that.
00:05:13 --> 00:05:18 So thank you, President Carter, and we're going to miss you.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:23 So now that I've said all that, it's time to go ahead and get this started.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:28 I do have a guest, and she has a very, very compelling story to tell.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:36 She's been very prolific in that she's written three books and has become an
00:05:36 --> 00:05:41 activist based off of a challenge that she's had to deal with.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:50 So, I hope that you will enjoy hearing her story and be inspired by it as well.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 Other than that, Grace is back.
00:05:55 --> 00:06:03 I'm glad she's doing well. And so, that's my cue to say it is time for a moment of news for Grace G.
00:06:04 --> 00:06:11 Music.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:16 A U.S. Army veteran crashed a pickup truck into a crowd in New Orleans' French
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 Quarter on New Year's Day, killing 15 and injuring about 30,
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 before dying in a shootout with police.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:27 Later that day, a Tesla Cybertruck exploded outside the Trump International
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 Hotel in Las Vegas, resulting in one death and seven injuries.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:36 Puerto Rico experienced a widespread power outage on New Year's Eve,
00:06:36 --> 00:06:38 affecting 87% of customers.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen warned that the U.S.
00:06:42 --> 00:06:48 May need to implement extraordinary measures by January 14th to avoid defaulting on its debt.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 President-elect Donald Trump has requested the U.S. Supreme Court to delay a
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 law that could ban TikTok or force its sale.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:02 New York Governor Kathy Hochul initiated prison reforms and began firing officers
00:07:02 --> 00:07:06 involved in the beating death of inmate Robert Brooks, whose violent encounter
00:07:06 --> 00:07:08 was recorded and is under investigation.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:14 A federal appeals court upheld E. Jean Carroll's $5 million verdict against
00:07:14 --> 00:07:17 Donald Trump for sexual abuse and defamation.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:23 Russian President Putin issued a rare apology to Azerbaijan's leader regarding
00:07:23 --> 00:07:25 an Azerbaijan Airlines plane crash,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:30 which was reportedly shot down by Russian air defenses amid Ukrainian drone
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 attacks, resulting in at least 38 fatalities. The U.S.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 Government fund compensating victims of Bernard Madoff announced its final distribution,
00:07:40 --> 00:07:48 totaling $4.3 billion to 40 claimants A HUD report revealed over 770
00:07:48 --> 00:07:53 individuals experienced homelessness on a single night in January 2024,
00:07:54 --> 00:08:00 marking an 18% increase from the previous year And a state funeral for former
00:08:00 --> 00:08:05 President Jimmy Carter will be held on January 9th at the Washington National Cathedral.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:09 I am Grace Gee, and this has been A Moment of News.
00:08:09 --> 00:08:17 Music.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And again,
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 I'm really glad that you're back.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 So now it's time for my first guest.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:29 And her name is Danielle Spencer.
00:08:30 --> 00:08:35 Danielle Spencer is a senior leader of almost 25 years of experience focused
00:08:35 --> 00:08:37 on business, finance and acquisition management.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:43 She is a change agent transforming and improving business operations and processes.
00:08:43 --> 00:08:49 She has two master's degrees, one in business administration and the other in
00:08:49 --> 00:08:54 information systems, and a bachelor's degree in medical and research technology.
00:08:55 --> 00:09:00 She is also certified in information assurance, cybersecurity,
00:09:00 --> 00:09:02 and project management.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 She is also the author of three books.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:13 And we're going to talk about the subject matter of those three books and what
00:09:13 --> 00:09:17 was the inspiration behind those three books.
00:09:18 --> 00:09:23 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 guest on this podcast, Danielle Spencer.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:36 Music.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:43 All right. Danielle Spencer, how you doing, ma'am? Happy New Year. Good to see you.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:48 Happy New Year. I'm doing great. Thank you for the opportunity to be on your platform.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:54 Well, thank you for accepting the invitation, because one of the things that
00:09:54 --> 00:09:59 I haven't talked about on this show is whistleblowing.
00:10:00 --> 00:10:07 And although, you know, it gets like this headline treatment and all that stuff,
00:10:08 --> 00:10:10 as somebody that's a former elected
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 official, I think whistleblowing is an important part of public policy.
00:10:15 --> 00:10:22 And because I think people need to be held accountable that serve in government.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:27 And so when I came across your profile and saw that you had that,
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 you had been through that, you've been a whistleblower and you documented it
00:10:32 --> 00:10:39 in like two incredible stories and a third book,
00:10:40 --> 00:10:44 kind of a, I guess, a self-help guide.
00:10:44 --> 00:10:50 If somebody is concerned about their data and their their personal information,
00:10:50 --> 00:10:56 I figured, yeah, this would be this would be a really, really good conversation.
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 So what I like to do at the beginning is to break the ice and I throw a quote.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 Now, I'm doing something a little different because I usually don't tell people
00:11:06 --> 00:11:10 where the quote came from, but I think it's important in the context.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:16 So Thomas Jefferson was trying to get the University of Virginia paid for by
00:11:16 --> 00:11:18 the state legislature at the time.
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 And so he had written a couple of letters. He had written some letters to all
00:11:22 --> 00:11:27 the different leaders in the legislature, whatever. But the first letter he
00:11:27 --> 00:11:30 wrote, he ended with these words.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:37 It says, the important truths, that knowledge is power, that knowledge is safety,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 and that knowledge is happiness.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:47 What does that quote mean to you? I wouldn't say that that is a very timely
00:11:47 --> 00:11:56 quote that kind of fits in with what I'm trying to do with the books and talking with people.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:02 I don't think, I would say most of us, understand how important knowledge is.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:11 And when you lack it or you don't have it, how easily you can be manipulated or taken advantage of.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:17 So for me, that quote kind of speaks and even like kind of what we're going
00:12:17 --> 00:12:22 through now as a country and even in some parts, other parts of the world,
00:12:22 --> 00:12:24 how there's a lack of knowledge.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:30 And that because of that lack of knowledge, people are being taken advantage
00:12:30 --> 00:12:35 of, people being mistreated because they don't have that lack of knowledge.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:44 And that once you get it, it brings freedom, it brings empowerment to you or to a group of people.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:50 So outside of probably being mistaken for the girl from what's happening now,
00:12:50 --> 00:12:57 what was your life like prior to 2016 in a nutshell?
00:12:57 --> 00:13:01 What, what, how was, how was your life?
00:13:02 --> 00:13:06 I mean, were you achieving your goals? Did you have the job that you want?
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 What, what, what was going on prior to 2016?
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 I would say it had a very, now to me.
00:13:15 --> 00:13:19 I would suggest uneventful to others, they would say, kind of boring.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:25 But I grew up in a middle-class family. My parents, they weren't college graduates,
00:13:25 --> 00:13:29 but they had good jobs, almost a blue-collar jobs.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:35 I am the first person in my family, on both sides, both my parents,
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 to be a college graduate. it.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:46 So we were, or say I was very taught like our history about civil rights,
00:13:46 --> 00:13:49 about women's rights. I had a very good foundation.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:55 So before 2016, you know, had a good job, nothing, I won't say it was perfect
00:13:55 --> 00:13:59 because there's no such thing as perfect, but a pretty uneventful life.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:05 Understood kind of what our people had been through, what we had to fight to,
00:14:05 --> 00:14:06 you know, get our rights.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:13 And I just thought things were moving smoothly. And then 2016, 2017 happened.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 All right. So let's get into that. What exactly happened in that time frame
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 in 2016 and 2017 that changed your life?
00:14:23 --> 00:14:30 I became a whistleblower against a, I'll say a Caucasian male in the federal government.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:36 And to me, what I blew the whistle on was very, very boring.
00:14:37 --> 00:14:38 It was nothing salacious.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:42 It wasn't, to me, anything that would even garner people's attention.
00:14:43 --> 00:14:48 I, based on my knowledge and experience, had interpretation of acquisition law
00:14:48 --> 00:14:51 that differed from what this individual did.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:56 And I told them, you know, if that's how you want to interpret it,
00:14:57 --> 00:15:05 that's fine, But I won't be a part of it because if something happens, if you violate like a.
00:15:07 --> 00:15:09 The appropriations law or any
00:15:09 --> 00:15:14 other thing happened, when Congress starts knocking, I'm not answering.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 You'll have to answer all those questions, but I won't.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:24 And me having that type of stance set off this avalanche of what I believe was
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 retaliation to something like I thought was very simple.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 Because if he wanted to move forward with bringing people on that hadn't been
00:15:32 --> 00:15:39 cleared or violating appropriations law, he could have done it because he was my supervisor.
00:15:39 --> 00:15:47 He didn't need my approval or my, he didn't need my acquiesce for me to agree
00:15:47 --> 00:15:48 to what he was doing to do it.
00:15:49 --> 00:15:58 But it was almost an anger that I had the nerve to speak up against the direction
00:15:58 --> 00:16:03 that He wanted to go and not just him. That was people above him.
00:16:03 --> 00:16:10 And what I believe is this had kind of led to we are going to destroy her and
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 anybody associated with her at all costs.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 Because you had because I had the nerve to say I'm not going to be involved in that.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:20 So you kind of felt.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 You kind of felt when you saw what was going on, you just kind of felt,
00:16:25 --> 00:16:27 hey, look, I need to say something.
00:16:28 --> 00:16:31 You know, if they do something about it, so be it if they don't.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:36 Oh, well, at least I just highlighted what was going on. Was that kind of your
00:16:36 --> 00:16:37 mindset at that particular point?
00:16:38 --> 00:16:42 Well, at first, I will say it started where he would just use an example.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:47 There was a contractor had not cleared the security process and wanted to bring
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 them on and have them ask that. I'm not doing that.
00:16:50 --> 00:16:54 I'm not approving invoices. I'm not doing that. And I told him directly.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:59 He would get upset and then would complain. And then that's kind of how it,
00:17:00 --> 00:17:02 for the most part, escalated.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:08 Complain and then why won't you do? Because policy says X, Y, and Z.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:13 And because this policy says that and it's written and every year I have to
00:17:13 --> 00:17:18 take this training to saying that I understand what the policy is and I agree to abide by it,
00:17:18 --> 00:17:24 I can't then violate that policy. I'll be held liable for that.
00:17:24 --> 00:17:28 So that's kind of how it started. It would, you know, a request to do something.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:30 And I'm like, no, I'm not doing that.
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 And I would tell him directly, I wouldn't go behind his back.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 And I said, no, I'm not doing that.
00:17:35 --> 00:17:39 And then there would be an insistence. And I'm saying, I'm not doing it.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:44 Give them written, you know, explanation as to why. And that's kind of how it
00:17:44 --> 00:17:50 started. And it went that went through through 2017 until I left.
00:17:51 --> 00:17:56 And I would say late in 2017, the retaliation became, you know,
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 I want to say really started.
00:17:57 --> 00:18:04 It got, you know, I say my incident in my mind got worse after I left the that
00:18:04 --> 00:18:05 federal government agency.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:12 So now you you've ended up writing two books based on the experience. Well, really three.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:20 But the two books that kind of chronicle what you did is called Digital Assassins,
00:18:21 --> 00:18:24 Digital Assassins and then Digital Assassins, too.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:31 What made you decide to write about that experience?
00:18:31 --> 00:18:35 And why did you decide to do it in a fictional way?
00:18:35 --> 00:18:39 I've had another guest who went through, it wasn't a whistleblower situation.
00:18:39 --> 00:18:45 She went through just racial discrimination at the job, but she decided to tell
00:18:45 --> 00:18:49 her story, but use fictional characters.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:55 What was your motivation to, first of all, to write a book or two books about
00:18:55 --> 00:19:00 it and then to do it in a fictional way?
00:19:00 --> 00:19:04 The motivation for the book started in 2022.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:10 That's when I want to say events and documentation started to be fabricated.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:15 And I won't ever say that I was fearful, but when those events started to occur,
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 I became very concerned.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:22 And it didn't just involve me, it involved family members.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:28 So one example from the book was when my parents got a ticket,
00:19:28 --> 00:19:34 they were accused of not stopping for a school bus.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:37 And when we got the ticket in the mail, I saw it and everything,
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 and it was a completely fabricated event.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:47 And when you look at the documents that we got in the mail, it was as if someone
00:19:47 --> 00:19:52 had been following my father to get a picture of the back of his van.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:59 But what people didn't realize at the time, the exact same time that they were
00:19:59 --> 00:20:04 supposedly not stopping for the school bus, they were at a doctor's appointment.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 And it wasn't just like my mom was at a doctor's appointment or my father.
00:20:07 --> 00:20:11 They both were at the same doctor at the same time. And so, you know,
00:20:11 --> 00:20:17 I fought, you know, did the write-up to fight the ticket, and it quickly disappeared.
00:20:18 --> 00:20:23 No one could explain to us how this would happen, but it just disappeared,
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 and no one wanted to talk about it anymore.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:30 But it was several events like that that happened, and it started in 2022,
00:20:30 --> 00:20:36 that made me become concerned that, you know, when you start fabricating events,
00:20:37 --> 00:20:41 start fabricating documents, what else can happen?
00:20:41 --> 00:20:48 And so I said, I'm going to have to start documenting this in a book and kind
00:20:48 --> 00:20:50 of put it out there, kind of this is what happened.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:58 So that was what motivated me to do the books and kind of document it.
00:20:59 --> 00:21:04 When I tried to find a publisher and looking for a literary agent,
00:21:05 --> 00:21:08 which I will say a lot of people were scared.
00:21:08 --> 00:21:14 They were like, we're not going to touch this. I did have a self-publishing
00:21:14 --> 00:21:18 agent who spoke with me kind of like off the record and said,
00:21:18 --> 00:21:20 because of your subject matter.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:26 Would recommend that you do it as a fiction. He said, not a nonfiction.
00:21:26 --> 00:21:32 Because if you get one word or one sentence wrong in a conversation,
00:21:32 --> 00:21:38 you could open yourself up to possible legal ramifications because someone could
00:21:38 --> 00:21:40 say, well, they were misquoted.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 He said, even though you didn't want to use people's real names,
00:21:44 --> 00:21:52 just to protect myself to do it as a fiction, a fiction book based off true events.
00:21:52 --> 00:21:57 So that's, I'll say, kind of why it's fiction book as opposed to nonfiction.
00:21:58 --> 00:22:05 So, you know, reading it, it's like if you went through all of the stuff.
00:22:06 --> 00:22:10 That's in the book, and then you just mentioned something about your parents,
00:22:10 --> 00:22:15 so So had you been dealing with challenges,
00:22:16 --> 00:22:23 retaliation, and all that stuff up until 2022, from the time that you first
00:22:23 --> 00:22:24 became a whistleblower?
00:22:24 --> 00:22:31 It started in 2017, and I will say it's still ongoing now, so it hasn't stopped.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:38 To me, it's escalated. I would say when it started in 2017, 2018,
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 there were things, I would say more administrative.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:44 I don't want to say they weren't serious because they were serious,
00:22:44 --> 00:22:49 but it would be something such as interfering in job opportunities.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:56 I was offered a job with another federal government agency and the individual
00:22:56 --> 00:23:02 with whom I was having challenges with, he contacted that other agency and forced
00:23:02 --> 00:23:04 them to rescind the job offer.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:09 And I have all this like stuff in writing. So it started off with things like
00:23:09 --> 00:23:16 that in 2022 is when to me, things got really off the hook where I said,
00:23:17 --> 00:23:19 documents and situations were starting to be fabricated.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:23 And so, and it hasn't stopped, but.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:33 Now, say it's more using electronic or digital methods and digital mediums to do the retaliation.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:39 So what what kind of impact does that have on you?
00:23:39 --> 00:23:45 What kind of impact would you think that would have on other people that something you did?
00:23:46 --> 00:23:51 God, that's so that's basically equivalent to the time that I've been in Atlanta.
00:23:51 --> 00:23:56 I got to Atlanta in 2017, and I've been married, divorced, all that stuff since then.
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 So a lot of stuff has happened to me.
00:23:59 --> 00:24:06 I'm just imagining what impact has that been on your life for all those years
00:24:06 --> 00:24:19 for somebody or some entity to continue to harass you or continue to put roadblocks, I guess,
00:24:19 --> 00:24:21 is a safe word in your life?
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 It's because of the kind of makeup that I have.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:33 For the most part, I don't get fearful, but I will get upset.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:35 And I have an attitude.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:40 I want to say, yeah, okay, well, you got the right one this time. I'm a fighter.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:44 So it kind of more motivated me to fight.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:51 What I would say within the last two to three years, what I did know this night,
00:24:51 --> 00:24:56 it took me a doctor kind of telling me I was starting to have physical ailments
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 where I didn't think it was impacting me.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:04 But a doctor let me know that when you're under this type of stress all the
00:25:04 --> 00:25:08 time and they had to explain it to me.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:17 It was like, no matter what you do, someone is looking for an opportunity to set you up. And if.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:23 I'm not giving them the opportunity, like being someone who runs out or goes
00:25:23 --> 00:25:27 out at night to a party and drinks and then have a cop stop you,
00:25:27 --> 00:25:32 you know, out of the blue and to give you tickets because I don't have any of
00:25:32 --> 00:25:33 those type of scenarios.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 So then situations have to be fabricated.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:43 And so what it kind of puts you in a mindset of always looking over your shoulder.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:51 And again, like I said, because of my makeup and because I'm a STEM student, I studied medicine.
00:25:51 --> 00:25:53 I had dreams of becoming a doctor.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:58 And so most of the people who kind of come from that background were very detail-oriented,
00:25:58 --> 00:25:59 very process-oriented.
00:25:59 --> 00:26:06 So there were a lot of things that I want to say that I learned from childhood
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 and from college that are just habits now.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:17 So whereas I think it might have had a lot more effect on someone else, it hasn't been that.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:24 And it has been somewhat impactful, but not as much as it would be someone else, if that makes sense.
00:26:24 --> 00:26:29 It's something I don't like it, but I'm a fighter.
00:26:29 --> 00:26:34 And because I am very detail-oriented, I document just about everything.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:39 It's hard to kind of get me caught up. Thank God for that. But it's kind of
00:26:39 --> 00:26:41 hard to get me caught up in stuff.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:43 So I think it's probably more frustrating
00:26:43 --> 00:26:48 for the other, for whoever these people are, than it is for me.
00:26:51 --> 00:26:55 So that's a segue into this question. In Paul's second letter to Timothy,
00:26:56 --> 00:27:00 the first chapter and seven verse, it reads, For God has not given us a spirit
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03 of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
00:27:03 --> 00:27:11 How has that Bible verse guided your life journey other than your training in
00:27:11 --> 00:27:16 STEM and staying disciplined and detail-oriented and all that?
00:27:16 --> 00:27:21 How did that Bible verse help you? It's amazing.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:29 For this instance, or for what I'm going through now, I know the verse and I understand it.
00:27:29 --> 00:27:37 But I want to say, for me, this is probably one of the first real situations
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 I've dealt with, if that makes sense.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:45 Like I said, even being a Black woman in America, my ancestors,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 the people that came before me, they fought all those fights.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:56 So I had been enjoying the benefits of what other people had kind of sacrificed.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:03 So now this is like the first time, not that I haven't experienced racism.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:08 I think me personally, I've experienced more sexism than I have racism.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:16 But this is kind of the first time where I'm like coming against someone and or something.
00:28:17 --> 00:28:21 And we're also you really have to put your faith into action where.
00:28:23 --> 00:28:28 Well, God, you're going to have to protect me because I can't fight the federal government.
00:28:28 --> 00:28:35 I can't do that. And so while I understand that, that verse,
00:28:35 --> 00:28:41 mine is more so with kind of having peace and.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:48 About the situation and not being, I want to say, vengeful or angry and not
00:28:48 --> 00:28:53 letting anger kind of take over and getting where I'm angry,
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 almost kind of hateful people.
00:28:56 --> 00:28:59 And I want to say, for me, it's a good thing.
00:28:59 --> 00:29:03 I don't know who the people are because I think that'd be harder to do if you
00:29:03 --> 00:29:05 really knew who the individuals were.
00:29:06 --> 00:29:12 But I'm not necessarily fearful. It's more so I get angry, especially when,
00:29:12 --> 00:29:17 like I said, the people in my family, my parents, you know, they're senior citizens.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:26 It's not a pleasant feeling seeing other people be mistreated because someone is upset with you.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:32 So I would say that's more of anger and being upset is more something I have
00:29:32 --> 00:29:35 to really deal with other than fear.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:41 I got you. It sounds more like Second Chronicles. It's like the battle is not yours. It's the Lord's.
00:29:41 --> 00:29:46 You're going to let, you know, just give me some peace and you handle it.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:55 Let me see. What did I want to? Oh, so what's the most important thing one must
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 do to protect themselves from this kind of stuff?
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 And like you said, you talked about being detail oriented and all that.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:08 But what's the most important thing you must do to protect yourself if for anybody
00:30:08 --> 00:30:16 else that is listening, it's like they're dealing with a situation and or, you know,
00:30:16 --> 00:30:21 they're just happy-go-lucky folks that like to shop a lot on Christmas and on Amazon.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25 What's the most important things somebody needs to do to protect themselves?
00:30:26 --> 00:30:30 The first thing I would say, and going back to your quote, is knowledge.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:38 That we have to have an understanding of what our rights are, have an understanding.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:43 You don't have to be a tech genius, but have an understanding of technology
00:30:43 --> 00:30:48 and where we are now and where things are going to go in the future.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:54 And not be fearful of that. I've had conversations with people and they're like,
00:30:54 --> 00:30:56 oh, my God, AI. I understand.
00:30:57 --> 00:31:04 Have your moment where you like, oh, my. Then calm down and get knowledge about the situation.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 So the first thing I would tell people is to have knowledge,
00:31:07 --> 00:31:14 knowledge of what laws are, technology, and what policies are,
00:31:14 --> 00:31:15 especially where you work.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:22 The second is to document when situations do not feel right to you.
00:31:23 --> 00:31:28 Everybody, you have that feeling when something is not right.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:34 Someone on your job asks you to do something and it doesn't feel quite right
00:31:34 --> 00:31:38 to you, or you get this phone call and people are asking you for your information
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 that doesn't quite feel right for you.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:46 Listen to that feeling. You don't have to be rude and obnoxious to the individual,
00:31:46 --> 00:31:51 but there's something in that request that's not sitting right with your spirit
00:31:51 --> 00:31:55 and you need to listen to it, document it, ask questions.
00:31:56 --> 00:32:00 And, you know, when I have talks with people, I tell them, like I said,
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 you can do it in a non-threatening, a non-rude way.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:08 On your job, if you're asked to do something and you don't feel comfortable
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 about it, you can always circle back.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:14 And the way that you document it isn't a follow-up email.
00:32:14 --> 00:32:18 You know, you want to follow up on the early request. You want to make sure
00:32:18 --> 00:32:19 you understood it correctly.
00:32:20 --> 00:32:26 If you have some concerns, bring it up in the email. So those are kind of things that you can do.
00:32:26 --> 00:32:33 And one of the other things that I think is important, and I didn't quite understand
00:32:33 --> 00:32:37 it until I had the situation, is really supporting.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:43 There are a lot of organizations out there, whistleblower, social justice, privacy.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:48 There are organizations that are already out there who are trying to fight these
00:32:48 --> 00:32:55 fights for us, keeping up to date with laws and political actions or political activity.
00:32:56 --> 00:33:01 Support those organizations, support those individuals, because as,
00:33:02 --> 00:33:07 especially from a digital perspective, of as things mature, we're really going
00:33:07 --> 00:33:13 to need those people to fight those battles for us so that when machines are
00:33:13 --> 00:33:14 coming on and they're trying to do everything,
00:33:15 --> 00:33:22 that there's some type of governance and law in place to be able to hold them accountable.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:28 So those are things I would say can do to kind of protect ourselves. Yeah.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 In your latest book, Protecting Yourself, How Data Theft Can Impact You.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:40 You stated that advocating for legislative changes was the one item that has
00:33:40 --> 00:33:43 proven to be the hardest obstacle to overcome.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:48 How do you plan to overcome it yourself?
00:33:48 --> 00:33:56 I mean, what are you doing to try to get laws changed and, I guess,
00:33:56 --> 00:34:07 fill in the gaps in policy and in a legal sense to protect people like yourself
00:34:07 --> 00:34:10 that want to hold people accountable, that whistleblower?
00:34:11 --> 00:34:17 That the election is over, I'm hopeful that I'll have a better audience,
00:34:18 --> 00:34:22 both at the state level and at the federal level.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:28 I've been trying to get some type of legislative action for almost two years.
00:34:29 --> 00:34:34 And I want to say, because I'm here in the Maryland, DMV in the Maryland,
00:34:35 --> 00:34:39 state of Maryland, You know, one of the representatives was accused of stealing.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:45 So I'm like, so he probably wasn't paying attention to my email or emails anyway.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:49 Then due to the election, I
00:34:49 --> 00:34:53 think people were, oh, we're not going to pay attention to that right now.
00:34:53 --> 00:35:00 So now that 2025, we have the elections are over with, I'm planning to start
00:35:00 --> 00:35:07 up again, emailing different representatives and seeing if I can get an audience with them.
00:35:07 --> 00:35:12 Also, one of my goals for this year is to get more involved in social activist
00:35:12 --> 00:35:19 organizations, not just donating money, but actually getting in with my time.
00:35:19 --> 00:35:26 And I'm hopeful that getting in with my time, I will be able to not only support
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 what they're doing, but say, hey, this is something that I experienced.
00:35:30 --> 00:35:34 Do you think we can work together to see if we can bring about some legislative
00:35:34 --> 00:35:38 changes? That's going to help everybody, not just me.
00:35:38 --> 00:35:42 But this is something that I think is needed for our society, period.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:48 So that's what I'm hopeful that 2025 will be different. So what's the most important
00:35:48 --> 00:35:51 legislative change or policy change that needs to happen?
00:35:52 --> 00:35:57 What what is OK? You see this get through the Maryland Assembly.
00:35:57 --> 00:36:02 You see this gets through Congress. What what's the most important thing that needs to happen?
00:36:03 --> 00:36:10 Right now, there are some laws concerning our data, but there needs to be a
00:36:10 --> 00:36:15 little bit more, I want to say not a little, but a lot of more transparency about,
00:36:15 --> 00:36:21 I want to say from a state level, any organization that does business in your state.
00:36:21 --> 00:36:30 When they have a data breach or where people's data have been compromised or
00:36:30 --> 00:36:32 viewed and it shouldn't be,
00:36:33 --> 00:36:38 where people are notified and that there are a little bit more repercussions.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:41 From a federal level.
00:36:42 --> 00:36:47 It's going to, to me, be the hardest. There needs to be more governance around our data.
00:36:47 --> 00:36:53 Right now, from my experience, people can give any type of excuse they want
00:36:53 --> 00:36:58 and be able to get yours, mine, or somebody else's data.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:00 And it doesn't even have to be a valid excuse.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:06 And for me, that is very concerning because your data is very,
00:37:06 --> 00:37:08 people don't understand how valuable
00:37:08 --> 00:37:15 your information is. and it can be misused for any type of reason.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:22 And so there needs to be a lot more guardrails around when people's data is accessed.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:29 And if a person requests your data and they don't have a valid reason for doing
00:37:29 --> 00:37:33 it, there has to be some repercussions to that individual.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:38 Yeah. So basically what you're trying to do is make sure that laws are in place
00:37:38 --> 00:37:43 to minimize the weaponization of data breaches.
00:37:44 --> 00:37:49 Yes. And not just data breaches, but especially at the federal level.
00:37:50 --> 00:37:53 People just getting your data and and they don't have a reason why.
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 And like I said, for me, I believe mine was whistleblower retaliation.
00:37:57 --> 00:38:03 But for someone else, let's say they're in a domestic situation,
00:38:03 --> 00:38:05 if the person works for federal government,
00:38:05 --> 00:38:14 they can get your data and say either you're looking for a job or it's a national security, whatever.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:19 They can give some type of reason. And right now, it seems, based on my experience,
00:38:20 --> 00:38:20 there are no repercussions.
00:38:21 --> 00:38:25 And I would say it's not me assuming this. No, I lived through it.
00:38:26 --> 00:38:31 The IRS asked for my data saying that they were looking at trying to vet me
00:38:31 --> 00:38:33 for a job and I hadn't applied there.
00:38:34 --> 00:38:38 And when I brought it up that I never applied for, you know,
00:38:38 --> 00:38:42 since I left, I didn't apply for a job there. I hadn't been interviewed.
00:38:43 --> 00:38:48 People, okay, well, no matter, you're still living.
00:38:49 --> 00:38:53 So we're not going to investigate this. I said, no, that's a problem because
00:38:53 --> 00:38:59 that person or whoever these people are basically have a book in my life from
00:38:59 --> 00:39:03 my driver's license number, social security, and not just mine,
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06 anybody associated with me. I said, that's a problem.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:15 And right now, the laws and the courts are like, well, unless they destroy you,
00:39:15 --> 00:39:18 we don't even want to be bothered with it.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:22 So to me, that's a problem that needs to be addressed.
00:39:23 --> 00:39:28 So you've written three books and now you're doing interviews and speaking engagements.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:34 What do you hope happens with this path of advocacy that you've taken?
00:39:36 --> 00:39:43 It's, I'm going to say, two things, like education awareness for citizens to
00:39:43 --> 00:39:49 kind of have understanding and knowledge of how technology can be misused and
00:39:49 --> 00:39:53 how your data can be weaponized. So that's one thing.
00:39:53 --> 00:40:00 The other is looking for, like I said, the legislative changes and not just for data.
00:40:00 --> 00:40:07 One of the examples that I give in the book is about my deeds that over 30 years
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10 old, where people can come back and say, hey,
00:40:11 --> 00:40:18 no, you do have this deed and we owe, we want money for this deed or maintenance deeds or whatever.
00:40:18 --> 00:40:24 And because everything is electronic now, people really understanding that electronic
00:40:24 --> 00:40:29 records can be manipulated and that most of us do not keep records for 20,
00:40:30 --> 00:40:31 30 years like paper records.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:37 Most of us don't. And that laws need to be updated to kind of reflect a new reality.
00:40:37 --> 00:40:42 And then I'm going to say the third part is from the corporation standpoint.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:49 Where having corporations, I don't want to say care, but have a little bit more
00:40:49 --> 00:40:53 stake in protecting people's data.
00:40:53 --> 00:40:59 If you're going to collect it, kind of put policies and laws in place where
00:40:59 --> 00:41:07 you're more responsible about this data so that it not only protects your company brand,
00:41:07 --> 00:41:12 but it also protects all your stakeholders, including the customers who have
00:41:12 --> 00:41:15 trusted you with this data. Yeah.
00:41:15 --> 00:41:22 So, again, the name of the books are digital assassin assassins,
00:41:22 --> 00:41:27 digital assassins to and protecting yourself, how data theft can impact you.
00:41:29 --> 00:41:34 Joy Reid when I was reading that I kept thinking about Joy Reid's famous quote
00:41:34 --> 00:41:38 scaring is sharing and scaring is caring even and,
00:41:39 --> 00:41:43 I was reading some of that stuff and I was like oh my god if they really wanted
00:41:43 --> 00:41:47 to come after me they could do this they could do that now I'm broke so I ain't
00:41:47 --> 00:41:52 got half the stuff you got but you know just the thought that they could,
00:41:53 --> 00:41:58 be that creative and go back and even car loans I was like Oh, my God.
00:41:59 --> 00:42:02 You know what I'm saying? So I want people to read this.
00:42:02 --> 00:42:04 I want people to read those books.
00:42:05 --> 00:42:13 Just, you know, whether they're in a situation where they want to be a whistleblower and be accountable.
00:42:15 --> 00:42:20 I hold people accountable, but just on every day, like you said,
00:42:20 --> 00:42:26 a situation you could be in a, you know, going through a divorce or, you know,
00:42:27 --> 00:42:31 somebody, you know, didn't like the fact that you beat them in fantasy football.
00:42:32 --> 00:42:33 I mean, whatever the case may be, right.
00:42:34 --> 00:42:39 People, people can have access to your information. And I think,
00:42:39 --> 00:42:42 and I think people kind of dismiss it.
00:42:42 --> 00:42:47 You know, all I remember is like, watching a lot of documentaries and all that.
00:42:47 --> 00:42:51 And, you know, they figured, well, the FBI was tapping their phone or whatever.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:55 And, you know, and people just kind of said, you know, like me is like,
00:42:55 --> 00:42:57 well, I ain't got, if they want to listen to what I got to say,
00:42:57 --> 00:42:59 it's, they're going to be bored. Right.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:03 But it's a lot more intense than that. And your books cover that.
00:43:04 --> 00:43:08 So, so tell people how, how they can get copies of the books,
00:43:08 --> 00:43:15 how they can reach out to you and, and, and, and get you to talk about these
00:43:15 --> 00:43:18 things or even, you know, just,
00:43:18 --> 00:43:24 you know, provide advice for folks to go to deal with protecting themselves?
00:43:25 --> 00:43:30 The books are available online, Barnes & Noble and Amazon.
00:43:30 --> 00:43:34 There's some other sites, but I'm going to say those are the two major.
00:43:34 --> 00:43:39 I have a website. it's danielspencil.org if
00:43:39 --> 00:43:43 you go to my website i'm on instagram facebook
00:43:43 --> 00:43:50 linkedin and i have all linked i say links to that social media too either way
00:43:50 --> 00:43:56 you know social media if you're on instagram send me a message you have questions
00:43:56 --> 00:44:02 if you go to my website my email address is on there too, feel free to reach out.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:07 For me, this is more, it's not like trying to make money or anything like that.
00:44:08 --> 00:44:10 It's very, like I said, education awareness.
00:44:12 --> 00:44:18 I went through this situation. I did not, I had no idea. And I've been in IT for almost 25 years.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:26 I didn't know how it could be misused. And I have a heart or a concern that
00:44:26 --> 00:44:32 I share that knowledge with as many people as possible so that we all can protect
00:44:32 --> 00:44:34 ourselves as best as possible.
00:44:35 --> 00:44:41 Well, again, like I said in the beginning, I think that what you did was important,
00:44:41 --> 00:44:45 even though it may have been small and the kind,
00:44:45 --> 00:44:52 it wasn't like the whistleblower for MCI WorldCom or the Eric Snowden and all
00:44:52 --> 00:44:53 that, but it was still important.
00:44:54 --> 00:44:58 And there are supposed to be laws, the whistleblower act and all that stuff
00:44:58 --> 00:45:05 is supposed to be laws to protect people who hold elected officials and government agencies accountable.
00:45:08 --> 00:45:16 And I'm empathetic to you that you went through a lot of this unnecessary stuff
00:45:16 --> 00:45:19 just because you were doing the right things.
00:45:19 --> 00:45:24 I want to stress that whistleblowing is the right thing to do.
00:45:24 --> 00:45:28 When you see something wrong, act on it.
00:45:28 --> 00:45:34 Now, if you are having problems, I suggest you talk to Daniel Spencer.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:42 And if you can't talk to it directly, get the books so you can understand,
00:45:42 --> 00:45:45 you know, how to navigate through all that.
00:45:45 --> 00:45:50 And, you know, I pray that nobody else goes through what you go through.
00:45:50 --> 00:45:57 I pray that you're able to convince people that make policy and make laws that
00:45:57 --> 00:46:04 they need to take this seriously and and to strengthen up what laws do exist. and,
00:46:05 --> 00:46:09 I think, again, it's vitally important that that people are held accountable.
00:46:09 --> 00:46:15 So I want to commend you for doing that as far as having the courage to to to
00:46:15 --> 00:46:16 hold somebody accountable,
00:46:16 --> 00:46:21 but also the added level of courage to navigate through all that you've been
00:46:21 --> 00:46:27 through and to go out and try to advocate for other people and to teach other
00:46:27 --> 00:46:30 people that they can work through it, too.
00:46:30 --> 00:46:34 And just make sure that you're protected as you go along them steps.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:37 So I just want to publicly commend you for that.
00:46:38 --> 00:46:42 And I want to thank you for coming on the podcast. I am really honored and greatly
00:46:42 --> 00:46:44 appreciated that you've taken this time.
00:46:45 --> 00:46:52 Thank you. And like I said, I appreciate and very grateful that you use your platform to share.
00:46:55 --> 00:46:58 I'll put it this way. There are a lot of people who aren't willing,
00:46:58 --> 00:47:04 but I understand. They have a concern about retaliation. So I understand.
00:47:04 --> 00:47:08 Well, you know, if you if you had done any background on me,
00:47:09 --> 00:47:12 the last thing I worry about is anybody retaliating on me.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:16 I ain't got nothing to take other than my life.
00:47:16 --> 00:47:21 And, you know, the trade off is I'll be in a better place if you do that.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:29 So I'm not worried about that. What I'm worried about is us living in a society where.
00:47:30 --> 00:47:35 You know, and you kind of mentioned the election. We're living in a society
00:47:35 --> 00:47:39 where it's like accountability is not fashionable anymore.
00:47:40 --> 00:47:44 And I think that is a grave mistake.
00:47:45 --> 00:47:56 And so for I wish that we had more people like you than what we are being offered as an American public.
00:47:56 --> 00:48:01 So, again, I want to commend you for that. And happy New Year to you.
00:48:01 --> 00:48:07 I hope 2025 is a lot more peaceful and a lot more prosperous to you.
00:48:08 --> 00:48:12 Thank you. All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
00:48:12 --> 00:48:32 Music.
00:48:32 --> 00:48:38 Right. And we are back. So I want to thank Danielle Spencer for coming on and
00:48:38 --> 00:48:42 for being the brave person that she is.
00:48:43 --> 00:48:49 As you heard me mentioned several times in the interview, being a whistleblower
00:48:49 --> 00:48:52 is not something anybody seeks to be.
00:48:53 --> 00:49:00 But I'm glad there are people who are willing to call out corruption when they
00:49:00 --> 00:49:02 see it. I wish more people would do it.
00:49:03 --> 00:49:06 I wish less people would be corrupt. Right.
00:49:07 --> 00:49:13 But I'm really glad that she's doing it and that she is taking her experience, good and bad,
00:49:14 --> 00:49:25 and has decided to be an activist and an educator in teaching all of us how to protect ourselves.
00:49:25 --> 00:49:32 And I think that's vitally important as we get more technologically advanced, right?
00:49:32 --> 00:49:38 So I commend her for that. And again, I thank her for coming on.
00:49:39 --> 00:49:47 Now, at the beginning of the podcast, I said that this is not a good year already.
00:49:47 --> 00:49:53 I mean, we weren't even three hours or four hours, I should say,
00:49:53 --> 00:49:59 into the new year when 14 people were killed in New Orleans.
00:50:00 --> 00:50:08 And then the person who killed those 14 people basically died suicide by cop.
00:50:08 --> 00:50:13 Right. So 15 people at this point had died.
00:50:13 --> 00:50:20 And then later that morning in Las Vegas, somebody decides to take a cyber truck,
00:50:21 --> 00:50:25 drive it to a Trump hotel,
00:50:26 --> 00:50:30 shoot himself and set off an explosion in the truck.
00:50:31 --> 00:50:37 Fortunately, nobody outside of that perpetrator died, but that was 16 people.
00:50:38 --> 00:50:46 And then, you know, I missed out on something that happened in the Queens, right? A shooting.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:54 And then the first day of Congress, I guess this is the 119th session,
00:50:55 --> 00:50:57 Mike Johnson did not get enough votes to be speaker.
00:50:58 --> 00:51:03 So now, as I'm recording this, they're trying to figure out what to do.
00:51:03 --> 00:51:11 Are they going to keep Congress, the vote open, so two of the three people that
00:51:11 --> 00:51:15 didn't vote for Johnson will change their mind so he can go ahead and be Speaker
00:51:15 --> 00:51:18 and carry on with the business of government?
00:51:19 --> 00:51:23 Because they need to have that settled by January 6th so they can certify the
00:51:23 --> 00:51:26 election that Donald Trump won, right?
00:51:29 --> 00:51:36 So this is not a good start. I'm praying now for a strong finish for 2025,
00:51:36 --> 00:51:38 but right now this is not a good start.
00:51:40 --> 00:51:49 So as far as the tragedies go, I don't know what message this young man in Vegas was trying to send.
00:51:49 --> 00:51:55 I mean, it seems like he picked a Cybertruck, which is a Tesla product,
00:51:55 --> 00:52:01 which is owned by Elon Musk, and drove it to a Trump, the Trump International Hotel in Vegas.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:10 He was a military veteran. So as far as this recording, we don't know what his motive was.
00:52:11 --> 00:52:20 In New Orleans, you had New Year's going on. You had a college football playoff
00:52:20 --> 00:52:22 game ready to play that day.
00:52:23 --> 00:52:29 And then the Super Bowl is going to be next month in New Orleans.
00:52:31 --> 00:52:38 And while it is typically the MO of groups like ISIS to plan attacks like that,
00:52:39 --> 00:52:46 a lot of times, as in the case in New Orleans, you get radicalized people.
00:52:46 --> 00:52:50 It means people who fall into the
00:52:50 --> 00:52:56 rhetoric of a terrorist organization and decided to do a lone wolf act.
00:52:58 --> 00:53:04 You know, he lived in Houston, New Orleans. Is that not that far of a drive from Houston?
00:53:06 --> 00:53:11 Rented cars from Turo, so Turo's going to catch some flack for a little bit,
00:53:11 --> 00:53:18 and they're probably going to have to put some kind of screening process into their service.
00:53:19 --> 00:53:25 If you're not familiar with Turo, Turo is the Airbnb or the verbal of cars, right?
00:53:25 --> 00:53:31 Just like with those services, you can rent out my house or my condo for your vacation.
00:53:32 --> 00:53:34 With Turo, you can rent out my car.
00:53:35 --> 00:53:39 And they're probably going to have to try to figure out some way to deal with
00:53:39 --> 00:53:46 that just so they can deal with the blowback that they're receiving or about to receive. Right.
00:53:46 --> 00:53:52 But, you know, I don't know what motivated this dude to.
00:53:53 --> 00:53:58 And he was a military veteran. Well, he'd served, both of those guys served
00:53:58 --> 00:54:01 in combat in Afghanistan at some point.
00:54:02 --> 00:54:09 The gentleman that in New Orleans had served 20 years and was honorably discharged.
00:54:10 --> 00:54:16 So there was no indication during his military service that he was radicalized.
00:54:16 --> 00:54:18 It's something that happened after he's been out.
00:54:19 --> 00:54:22 And that was within the last four years.
00:54:23 --> 00:54:31 So I don't know, but all I can tell you is that we know as thinking people,
00:54:32 --> 00:54:35 as people that pay attention to world affairs, that the United States is not
00:54:35 --> 00:54:41 exactly a saint when it comes to international diplomacy and all this different stuff.
00:54:41 --> 00:54:46 But it doesn't ever warrant terrorism.
00:54:47 --> 00:54:54 But the only thing we can do is just try to live our lives, but always kind
00:54:54 --> 00:54:56 of keep the head on the swivel.
00:54:57 --> 00:55:01 And I know when people are having a good time, especially a holiday like New
00:55:01 --> 00:55:03 Year's, where everybody's drinking
00:55:03 --> 00:55:08 and partying, and it's very hard to be quote-unquote cautious. us.
00:55:08 --> 00:55:14 But in this day and age, we have to be. We have to pay attention to our surroundings.
00:55:17 --> 00:55:25 And we have to be cognizant of who we're around and what people are saying on
00:55:25 --> 00:55:28 social media and all that kind of stuff. We just have to.
00:55:28 --> 00:55:32 It sucks, but that's where we are.
00:55:33 --> 00:55:39 And, you know, It's just, I mean, that's just where we are.
00:55:39 --> 00:55:45 So to the families of the victims in New Orleans, my condolences to you all.
00:55:47 --> 00:55:52 Terrible way to start a year, to lose a loved one that way.
00:55:52 --> 00:55:58 And I can only pray and hope that you find strength, whether you're religious
00:55:58 --> 00:56:02 or not, to carry forward. It's not going to be easy.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:06 It's going to be a challenge for some time.
00:56:07 --> 00:56:11 But I just pray that you all find the strength and the courage.
00:56:12 --> 00:56:16 And if you are listening and you know any of those people, you know,
00:56:17 --> 00:56:23 be kind to them and help them if they need help. Help them if they don't ask for help.
00:56:24 --> 00:56:27 Just be a positive presence.
00:56:28 --> 00:56:31 Be a positive presence for the city of New Orleans.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:37 It's a city over the last 20 years that as seeing its share,
00:56:38 --> 00:56:42 but it is one of the most resilient cities in the United States,
00:56:42 --> 00:56:46 especially the people, but we continue to lift them up as well.
00:56:48 --> 00:56:53 So we got all this going on. We got all this chaos going on,
00:56:53 --> 00:56:57 which is why I always stress on this show for people to be focused.
00:56:58 --> 00:57:02 I need you to be your best selves, right?
00:57:02 --> 00:57:12 I need you all to continue to be strong and pay attention.
00:57:13 --> 00:57:17 We are not isolated at all in this world.
00:57:19 --> 00:57:23 The very thing that we hold in our possession every day, cell phone,
00:57:23 --> 00:57:25 connects us to the whole planet.
00:57:26 --> 00:57:30 But I just want you to focus, and that's why I wanted to take some time in the
00:57:30 --> 00:57:34 beginning of the show to highlight President Carter's life, because despite
00:57:34 --> 00:57:38 all the craziness that's going on, we can do good here.
00:57:39 --> 00:57:43 We may not live up to the building of the greatest nation in the world,
00:57:43 --> 00:57:46 but we can still be good people.
00:57:47 --> 00:57:53 And we still can do good things. And we still can change the world,
00:57:53 --> 00:58:01 even if it's just within our reach, whether it's our home, family, community,
00:58:01 --> 00:58:04 neighborhood, whatever.
00:58:05 --> 00:58:10 I think it was Hugo Humphrey that kind of said we can rebuild or,
00:58:10 --> 00:58:15 you know, shape the world, you know, one community at a time.
00:58:15 --> 00:58:21 I'm paraphrasing, but he said something along those lines, and Robert F. Kennedy Sr.
00:58:21 --> 00:58:25 Talked about the ripple effect that we have.
00:58:25 --> 00:58:32 We may think we're just a small stone skipping our pond, but the ripples that we create have impact.
00:58:32 --> 00:58:39 And so as we hear this news, as we watch these actions of our elected leaders,
00:58:39 --> 00:58:44 as we try to figure out what's going to happen next.
00:58:46 --> 00:58:49 We want us to be mindful about what we can do.
00:58:50 --> 00:58:58 And the other bad thing, well, it happened in 2024, but that ripple effect is
00:58:58 --> 00:59:02 going to carry over to 25 is the death of Robert Brooks.
00:59:02 --> 00:59:07 If you may have missed that, Robert Brooks, and we talked about it in the news
00:59:07 --> 00:59:12 segment, Robert Brooks was an inmate in New York State.
00:59:12 --> 00:59:17 For whatever reason, he was being interrogated by correction officers.
00:59:18 --> 00:59:21 They beat him, and he died the next day.
00:59:23 --> 00:59:28 And the governor fired those guards.
00:59:29 --> 00:59:34 But I'm kind of like other folks and like, you know, and the investigation is
00:59:34 --> 00:59:38 going on, so I expect Letitia James to put charges on these people.
00:59:38 --> 00:59:45 But of all the states where, you know, there's protection for law enforcement
00:59:45 --> 00:59:47 officers, New York kind of invented it.
00:59:49 --> 00:59:54 So regardless of how wrong these individuals are, it's going to be a challenge
00:59:54 --> 00:59:59 to convict them, as Eric Garner proved, right?
01:00:01 --> 01:00:09 So to the Brooks family, we lift y'all up, and we're hoping that justice emerges.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:17 But again, all of us listening, all of you all listening, all of us that are
01:00:17 --> 01:00:25 doing these podcasts and stuff, we just want everybody to just focus on doing good.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:32 Don't get caught up in all the hype, you know, and all the turmoil and all that stuff.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:38 We need you to be like fog lights and focus through that fog.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:44 Because the easy thing is for us to give up. The easy thing is to detach ourselves.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:50 The easy thing is to ignore what's happening until it happens to us.
01:00:51 --> 01:00:52 We don't have that luxury.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:58 And I'm going to stress it as long as I breathe. We don't really have the luxury
01:00:58 --> 01:01:02 to be divided in the black community. We really don't need to have the luxury
01:01:02 --> 01:01:06 to be divided as a nation. There are people that are hurting.
01:01:06 --> 01:01:11 There are people that are homeless. There are people who are hungry.
01:01:11 --> 01:01:14 There are people who are being miseducated.
01:01:14 --> 01:01:17 There are people who are being abused.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:25 And we as a nation have to figure out a way to address it.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:34 Can't do it, then it's up to us. We can support organizations that deal with specific issues.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:41 We can individually get engaged when we see something happening.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:49 But we've got to be focused and we've got to be engaged. We cannot be detached. We can't.
01:01:49 --> 01:01:55 Now, people who are detached more than likely are not listening to this podcast,
01:01:55 --> 01:02:01 but there are some of you who have been frustrated over this last,
01:02:01 --> 01:02:03 not just year, but decade.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:07 And you're at your wit's end.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:13 And I just have to remind you that we still have to keep our eyes on the prize.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:20 I'm not asking anybody to be a martyr. I'm not asking anybody to just jump to
01:02:20 --> 01:02:22 the front of the line and protest and all this stuff.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:26 I'm just asking people to be engaged and do the best you can.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:33 Do no harm. Do good. For all those young men and women who are being sworn in
01:02:33 --> 01:02:41 in their respective legislatures this week, do no harm, no matter what side of the aisle you are on.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:48 I know people have agendas, and they're trying to score points on politics and
01:02:48 --> 01:02:50 social media, do no harm.
01:02:51 --> 01:03:00 But make 2025 a year where we focus on helping people, on making sure that people get what they need,
01:03:01 --> 01:03:05 not necessarily what they want to hear, but that they get what they need,
01:03:05 --> 01:03:10 that they get the help that they desire.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:16 Because all of us at some point need help, some more than others.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:21 From a political standpoint, we can do a lot of good through organizing,
01:03:22 --> 01:03:25 through activism, and through government, right?
01:03:26 --> 01:03:30 But, you know, we have to be engaged to do that.
01:03:31 --> 01:03:35 So that's going to be my theme, I think, for the whole year,
01:03:36 --> 01:03:40 is that we just have to be engaged. We just have to focus.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:43 We have to be good.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:48 Despite what efforts anybody else tries to do to the contrary,
01:03:48 --> 01:03:51 we have to commit to be good.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:58 And I think if we as a collective body, as the majority, overwhelming majority
01:03:58 --> 01:04:02 of this nation decide that we're going to be good, then we're going to get through
01:04:02 --> 01:04:05 whatever adversity comes our way.
01:04:07 --> 01:04:14 That's it. I mean, Daniel Spencer is an example of that. Jimmy Carter is an example of that.
01:04:15 --> 01:04:18 And I pray that all of us can be examples of that.
01:04:19 --> 01:04:24 All right, guys, it can only get better from here. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.
01:04:25 --> 01:05:12 Music.
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