Ep 379: Importance of Communication in Sexual Health

[00:00:01] Liquor Talk coming at you again with a brand new episode. So go ahead and get those drinks poured up because we got another new edition of Liquor Talk coming at you right now. Shout out to everybody that's tuned in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, wherever you get your podcasts at. Shout out to everybody that is tuned in. Once again, I'm your man, Vic. And today we got an international episode for you. For the first time ever, we have somebody joining us from Australia. Right now it is the most popular podcast.

[00:00:30] Morning time where she's at right now. It is Dr. Caroline Hood. How you doing, Dr. Hood? We got a sex therapist, y'all. So you might want to hire your kids for this episode. Don't say I didn't warn you. Yeah, well, it's not doctor, so I don't want to. I am good, but it's just Caroline. Okay. Okay. So how you doing today? And welcome to Liquor Talk. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm great. So tell us a little about what you do.

[00:00:58] Yeah, sure. So what I want to focus on is I've just written a book that I'm currently trying to get published, and it is all about sex and intimacy, and particularly sex and intimacy when it comes to people in long-term relationships. And this idea that, you know, it just kind of goes away, and we all should just sort of expect it to go away.

[00:01:25] And that's just, you know, save your hot sex life for your younger days or for novelty, and that's just something that doesn't exist either as we age or later in life. And so I've written a book that talks about how that's not the case. It doesn't have to be the case. And we get to do things to make it stay good throughout the lifespan.

[00:01:48] Interesting, interesting. So we're going to come back to that because I am fascinated by the fact that you're all the way in Australia and I'm over here in America, you know. So what's it like living and being an American in Australia? It's great. So my family and I, we moved last August, August of 2025. So it's been about 10 months or so. And it's wonderful.

[00:02:12] I mean, it was a huge leap of faith and a huge logistical nightmare to move countries and get new bank accounts and get visas and not understand how anything works and new phones and all that. But it's a really beautiful place. We're in Sydney. It's by the beach. The people are friendly. The transit's great. Like, we're really enjoying it.

[00:02:37] Yeah, that sounds wonderful. And I do remember Sydney, Australia hosting the Olympics in 2000. Yes, exactly. Yeah. That's why when it says Sydney, that's why my mind went to the 2000 Olympics. And I know Brisbane is going to host the Olympics in like 2032, I believe. Are they? I don't think I realized that. Okay, cool. Yeah. Now, I don't know if you noticed tonight, but how do they treat black people down in Australia from what you've seen?

[00:03:03] Yeah, it's been a real difference because in America, you know, the racism is so focused on the African American population because of America's history of slavery and how all of that happened. And here, there wasn't that Africa to Australia slave trade that existed. So there are just far fewer African Australians living here.

[00:03:30] There's a huge population of indigenous and aboriginal Australians, similar to the U.S. that were enslaved and all sorts of terrible things happened to them. So the country's very aware of how it dehumanized the indigenous population. But in terms of black people in Australia, there's simply not that many. There's a huge Asian population.

[00:03:59] But so treatment wise, I mean, that's it. That's been a shift for us because we lived in Harlem for many years. Our kids were born in New York. You know, we're really that's just such a big part of being an American. And here, there's simply not as many black people because of the way the country was founded and sort of who came here and how they came here. Well, that's interesting. Thank you. Not enough black people there. So I don't know. They should come.

[00:04:29] Hey, why not? Hey, why not? So what inspired your book, Sex Begins Sex? What made you decide to write this book? Yeah.

[00:04:39] So I've been a clinical social worker for like 20 years or so and just sort of on the side have really had this interest in intimacy and sexuality and how that plays a part in people's lives or sort of doesn't play a part in people's lives sometimes and kind of takes a back seat when life gets hard or you have kids or just like all the things. And so I sat down.

[00:05:07] And so I sat down.

[00:05:34] But you really, you really get to cultivate it and have it be a priority in your life in a way that's helpful for you if you have a partner, helpful for your partner, all of that. And so this is just kind of always been an interest of mine. I think it's so universal, but often like not talked about. But it's this thing that exists with all of us if we're adults. And so kind of bringing it to life and just embracing it and saying, how do we make this more of a part of our lives? Mm-hmm.

[00:06:32] Or, you know, who knows what that sort of goes into why this is this thing that's like, nope, we don't talk about it. It's too private. And what happens is that even couples who are married for forever in long-term relationships, they don't even talk about it, even though that's supposed to be this person that you share your life with and are fully committed to. Even that's just so common that that's not discussed.

[00:07:01] So based on the people you've worked with, what do you think is the one thing that can hold back couples from talking about sex? What's the main major thing you've noticed that holds people back from talking about sex? I think it's really scary. I mean, I think there's a lot of shame and all sorts of stuff that can be – you have these like cultural influences for your whole lives maybe.

[00:07:24] But so if I'm talking to friends and I have a girlfriend who says, oh, you know, I've got this going on with my husband, she'll just out with it. She'll share it. She'll share the details. She'll share everything. But it's not something that she shared with her partner. And I think a big piece of that is that, you know, if I look at her and go, oh, my God, you know, that's weird, which I wouldn't do. But if I did that, the stakes are low. It's fine. I'm just her friend. She can dump me and make a new friend.

[00:07:51] But if you communicate vulnerably with your partner, this person, like maybe you share kids with, finances with, you know, whole life together with, and they look at you like, oh, God, you're into that or that's what's going on, that it feels too fraught. It feels really scary. So I think that's a big reason why people don't actually talk to their partners is because, like, the stakes are higher.

[00:08:16] You can talk to your buddy about it and make jokes, but to talk to your partner is like, oh, what if this creates this whole issue in our relationship and everything crumbles? Yeah, I could definitely see that. But my also thinking is, if you can't talk to them, then why are they your partner? Why are you with them if you can't talk to them about sex? Well, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think the best relationships, the most fun, rewarding, fulfilling are the ones where you are fully vulnerable.

[00:08:45] But that's hard. That's hard for a lot of people. Like, that's really hard. Yes, that is very hard. But you got to be done, though, because people talk about it on, it's hardly people are so comfortable talking about it on podcasts or other TV shows or they'll write to anomalous blogs and stuff about their sex life, but they can't even talk to their own partner. That's a sad fact we live in.

[00:09:12] Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, you go on, you know, they're on Reddit or they're anywhere. To find an outlet for this, but to bring it to their partner is, like I said, it can just feel like the stakes are really high. But I try to flip it because, oh, but the state, like, the result of it can be so good.

[00:09:35] The result of it can just be not just this thing that makes your sex life better, but also this thing that can make your whole relationship better. It can kind of open this level of intimacy, both sexually as well as communication-wise and all sorts of other things that I think has benefits in the relationship beyond just the actual, you know, sexual acts. Of course, of course. Ladies and gentlemen, we're at 10 minutes in, y'all. This is Liquor Talk.

[00:10:04] Liquor Talk, the more you drink, the better we sound. So get that liquor poured up and please hide the kids because this conversation is definitely going to get spicier. Shout out to everybody that's tuned in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio. And shout out to our friends at PodMatch for providing this guest to us today. If you're a podcast host or you are interested in getting on podcasts, sign up for PodMatch. I'm just giving them a free endorsement and they need to pay me.

[00:10:34] So that's what you got to do sometimes. So, Caroline, what's your favorite thing to drink? Oh, gosh. You know, so I'm not the perfect person for your podcast. So I was a sort of classic wine drinker for many years, but I actually don't drink very much at all anymore. That ain't no problem. That's no problem. The first time I've heard that, you know, and I got to keep saying this. Just because you don't drink, that don't mean you can't come have a conversation, you know?

[00:11:04] Liquor is recommended but not required. Yeah. Well, there you go. And I am such a fan of the conversations it elicits and going out. And, yeah, I got older and I went, oh, God, I just, like, don't feel as good. So we're just going to go to the bar and order a soda and that still works. Yeah, trust me. I know. Trust me. Sometimes drinking a lot, you can't drink. I mean, I used to turn up a lot in college. But now I'm more of a social drinker. And I know I'm the one hosting a podcast called Liquor Talk.

[00:11:33] But I know drinking a lot over 30, it does hit hard. It does. It feels different the next day. Yep. Yes, it does. So what is one liquor you would tell people to avoid if they want to have good sex? Well, my suggestion would be that you have sex and then you go out. And so you avoid the liquor entirely in advance, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:11:59] Or just have one and then get with your partner, have a good time, and then you go out. Don't wait until the end of the night because liquor and alcohol doesn't help anybody have good sex. It gets sloppy. It gets potentially physically challenging, all of that. And then you lose what can be really fun about it. Yeah, people like it to sort of lower inhibitions, but the outcome is often not as great as one would think.

[00:12:28] So basically, you're telling people they shouldn't be out here having drunk sex? No, no. There's physically, consent-wise, all of that. I would not recommend that. Yeah. And what about now for my 420 people, what about having sex while you're high? What about that? Is that one you don't recommend either? I mean, it's a little outside my scope, right? Like I'm not going to recommend anything that people aren't comfortable with.

[00:12:56] For me, it's all about what can you give consent? Are you of sound mind and body, right? Are you doing something? I think taking the edge off is lovely. I mean, because we just talked about things can be really fraught and sort of scary. Great. But you need to be in a place where you're still able, I think, particularly for our women. But I know it goes across the board that there is the ability to be really clear and consensual. But I think, you know, you can do a little bit.

[00:13:26] It's not like you need to be totally sober to have consensual sex. I think that's important. You just have to know yourself. Of course, of course. You definitely have to know yourself. Now, going back to you personally, what made you decide I wanted to take up sex therapy? What was your main draw to sex therapy? Was it something that fascinated you about talking to people about their sex lives? Or what was it that drew you to it and kept you in it for the last 25 years? Yeah.

[00:13:56] I mean, I think, you know, the social work is things I've been doing for a long time. But the sex therapy is and sort of that interest has always been kind of behind the scenes that I'm now spending more time doing and talking about and writing about. And it's not as salacious as it sounds. I mean, I think there's really two reasons.

[00:14:15] I think sex is this springboard toward connection and intimacy that's just so valuable and, like I said, so universal. Yet I was always confused by this fact that, like, it's not talked about in a way that's really supportive. There's all sorts of shame surrounding it. And so that always confused me. I never understood how this thing could be so normal and natural.

[00:14:42] And yet, for women and for many people, very shameful and things that we're told were bad. So that never made sense to me. And I was always curious about figuring out, okay, how do we bridge that gap? And how do we really embrace the positive nature of it? And I think when it comes to talking to people and writing about it, I'm not somebody that really relishes, like, the small talk. I like to get to know people.

[00:15:11] And I also think people like to really share what's really going on with them and not just talking about the weather and whatever else. But I just like to connect with people. And I think this is a way to say, hey, we're both human. What's really going on? These things are important to us. They're not often shared. I'm happy to talk. No judgment. Fully compassionate.

[00:15:39] And just connect in a way that this isn't silly or weird or anything else. This is just life. This is just part of all of us. Of course, of course. Now, you've been out straight for 10 months. Now, have you had a chance to talk to any of the locals about their sex lives or not? Yeah. I mean, I am sort of that friend that's like, tell me about your marriage. Tell me about your sex life. I just kind of go right in. So I talk to – I bring it up with friends probably.

[00:16:09] You know, they sort of know that I'm just going to go there when I meet them and hang out with them. And, you know, some people are more comfortable than others or more explicit. And I'm not trying to get explicit details. I'm trying to get at are they happy? You know, I'm trying to get at like are you having a good time? Are you fulfilled? The details are irrelevant. And so I do chat with my friends and have been able to bridge those relationships and get to know them.

[00:16:37] And, you know, I think everybody has a different vibe when it comes to talking about it. And so some people are interested in exploring more and hearing more about what I do and what I've written about where other people are just much more private. And that's fine, too. Of course. Of course. People are – I know some people are definitely private about their sex life. And they have some people who are just an open book. Uh-huh. Yeah. And all of that is fine. Yeah.

[00:17:07] So I guess you don't really can tell the difference between Americans and Australians when it comes to sex then or is there any differences? You know, I mean, I don't know if I've been here long enough to really like make a good – have a good perspective.

[00:17:22] I do think that Australia has less of the like religious – religion is – just feels less prevalent and sort of less ubiquitous. I think in the U.S. there's churches everywhere. People are raised in church, whatever. However, it's very prominent across the country.

[00:17:48] It's just back to sort of how we were founded and the Puritans and all that. Here there's less of that. So I do have this like – I wonder if there's sort of less of that religious shame that comes into it. But this is all just guesses. Like I don't know enough about the culture. I also think there's a big British influence in Australia because it's part of the Commonwealth. And the Brits can be a little buttoned up about all of it. So I think there's a little bit of that too. But, you know, everybody is.

[00:18:18] Yeah, definitely. Brits are definitely buttoned up about certain things. I've had a few Brits on the podcast. They can definitely button up about certain things. But we still – shout out to the Brits though. We still got love for y'all though, you know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I just feel bad for some of them because they got to pay that taxes that go to the royal family. So – Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But, hey, they chose to live in England. So it is what it is. So I do have this question about long-term relationships.

[00:18:49] Why do people in long-term relationships treat sex as a chore? Because I hear sometimes people that be in long-term relationships, they just don't have sex often. Or they'll just treat sex as a chore when sex should be enjoyed by both parties. Right. Yeah. I mean, I think that's really common. It's one of the most common things, you know, I've written about and hear from people is that it went from being this thing that you loved and you were excited about to a chore.

[00:19:17] To feeling like it's like an oil change or something you're just sort of required to do on a quarterly basis. And that's just – that's what it is. I think there's a couple reasons it becomes a chore. I mean, I think one is that stress gets in the way of continuing to have that type of sexual energy with your partner.

[00:19:40] And you sort of let the kids or you let adulthood or your jobs or taxes or medical bills or taking care of aging parents or whatever the things may be. You sort of let that take over your whole world and you treat sex as something that's like the cherry on top. Like if I have time, if I have energy, if I have whatever, then we'll have sex in the relationship.

[00:20:06] And so I think couples have often deprioritized it totally understandably because life is busy and all of those things I just mentioned. But because they've deprioritized it, they're having less of it. And therefore, when they have it, it's not as fun. It's higher stakes. There's more pressure like, oh gosh, if we're only having sex once a quarter, it needs to like – it needs to be really good and everything needs to line up perfectly.

[00:20:34] And what happens is that it just – because it becomes this sort of stressful event, just like the list of other things I mentioned, then it doesn't happen. And I think couples are really well served when they decide, okay, just like paying my bills and just like doing the laundry, this is a priority.

[00:21:01] This is something we will do on a regular basis to maintain the functioning of our relationship, of our household, whatever the dynamic is. And by doing it regularly and more often, it stays fun and it stays enjoyable and it doesn't turn into this like obligatory thing that you have to do just to check a box. That's so true. So how often should couples have sex?

[00:21:26] Because I hear some couples, they definitely argue about this a lot because, you know, you get some of us men, we might want it all the time. And then we might come across a woman who barely wants it, who doesn't like to get touched. And then there are some cases where the woman, she has a high libido, she wants it all the time. And then there's some – and then the man got to drink energy drinks just to keep up. So how do you find that balance? Yeah. I mean, so there's no right – there's no exact prescription, right? Like what you just said is – that's the answer.

[00:21:57] It's the balance. So if you're in a couple, you've got two people, they're entering into a situation where they're their own beings. And so to line up those desires, I mean, it's very uncommon to have – to match up two people who have the exact same sexual desire and sexual libido, right? So it is about – it goes back to that communication.

[00:22:22] It goes back to, okay, so what do you want? What do you want? How do we meet somewhere in the middle and make sure that we're doing things that both feel good to ourselves and are giving to our partner? And it's an ebb and flow. You know, it's a give and take.

[00:22:40] I think the other thing that's really critical that I discuss quite a bit is that people are often too narrowly defining sex, and they're defining it solely as penetration. And so often if that is your definition, like the sort of first base, second base, third base, and home run, if your only definition of sex is that home run, it's going to happen less often.

[00:23:05] And so if you're a partner in a situation that has maybe a higher libido or a higher desire than the other, you really want to think about what are all the different ways that you can have sex? What are all the different ways where you can lower the stakes to having sex with your partner so that if you are somebody that wants more of it, you're still satisfied? And that other partner feels like this is still fun.

[00:23:30] But it all goes back to communication because you really have to talk through what's going to work and be pleasurable for each of you and try to get on the same page. And recognize that if you're in a relationship over a long time, that's going to go up and down. You know, like woman as a baby, there's going to be a drop. Then, you know, things like everybody as we age, the word hormones change.

[00:23:54] So just because you were somebody with a really high libido in your 20s doesn't mean that's going to be the same in your 40s or 50s and vice versa. And it can go up over time. It doesn't have to just go down like I think a lot of people assume. So what are some things people can do to keep it from going down? Or is it just some things that are just out of their control? Yeah, I mean, there's some things, right? There's like physical aging. And so that's just there's a normal male testosterone goes down.

[00:24:23] If women are going through perimenopause or menopause, that's going to impact our levels of estrogen and progesterone, which impacts libido. So I'm always an advocate like some of this is health and some of this is biological. So talk to your doctor. Like if you're go to your doctor and say, hey, my sex drive is lower and I care about this part of my life and talk with them. Like I think that's important. And many people just sort of suffer through some of the physical changes and don't address it. So go do that.

[00:24:53] I think the other thing about how do you keep it high goes back to goes back to one of the one of the main theses of of my book that the sex begets sex. The more you have, the better you are, the more you like it, the more you want it. And it's this sort of virtuous, positive feedback loop.

[00:25:15] So if you find yourself in this sort of rut where you're having sex really infrequently, a lot of people try to solve that by saying, OK, well, I'll just wait till the desire strikes me and then we'll have sex. And I encourage people to flip it and instead of waiting for the motivation to spur the action, to start with the actions. And that will that will spur the motivation.

[00:25:41] And so just start by flirting more, touching more, having those non-sexual physical interactions by playing with your partner, being silly, building up foreplay throughout the week, having more sexual type of communication and touching, having more sex, having different kinds of sex, not just about penetration.

[00:26:07] And trying to add in that variety so that you can really feel that that desire doesn't have to go away. But you need to you need to just be doing it. It's like it's like anything, you know, you you sit down to play the piano. It's not fun because you haven't done it in a year. But if you play it every day, you get better at it. You really enjoy it. You start to feel good about it. You want to sit down and do it. It's it's similar to that.

[00:26:36] Of course, of course, you definitely got to do it more often. So I know you did mention now penetration isn't the only type of sex. Now, what are some of the other sex types just like mass masturbating with each other or just giving each other head or what other things can people do to stimulate that fulfill them sexual needs besides penetration?

[00:26:56] Yeah, I mean, I think what you just mentioned are are are both really good examples that that there's all sorts of ways in which you can be together in a sexually intimate way that doesn't necessarily have to be penetration. So there is mutual masturbation. There's touching. There's there's hands. There's oral interaction. There's watching porn together. There's kissing and making out and and and a variety of other things. You can incorporate toys.

[00:27:24] You can incorporate videos, role plays. And and and thinking about all of those as as sex, like as legitimate goals to the encounter instead of saying, OK, we're going to do all that stuff. But then eventually it just needs to lead to penetration.

[00:27:45] It's also, I think, important, you know, fewer research varies, but it but it seems like it's a pretty general consensus that that less than 20 percent of women are having orgasms from penetrative sex. So if you're in a partnership with a woman, you also want to think about, you know, that that penetration is a pretty male centered approach to what it means to be sexually fulfilled.

[00:28:12] And so talk to your partner and talk to if you're a woman in a relationship. Is that the most rewarding type of sex? If not, really try to broaden your perspective and broaden your definition of what it is that's going to make you happy because the more you like it, the more you're going to want to do it. Of course, of course, I see anything. The more that's that's the thing, you know, the more you like it, the more you're going to do. And I've had plenty of people come on and talk about that. That orgasm gap where only 20 percent of people are getting orgasms. Mm hmm.

[00:28:41] It's a scary thought. And I'm like and I always wonder what can men do to help the load? And it just seems like everybody says the same thing. Sometimes it's communication. Sometimes it's got to do more. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, I think a lot of women were raised to to think that there was something wrong with them.

[00:29:04] If they weren't being able to have an orgasm through penetration, they were ways sort of told not to speak up, not to, you know, just to fake it, to to do what you need to do to please your man and to make your own pleasure. You're secondary to his pleasure if you're in a heterosexual dynamic. And I think what can the man do?

[00:29:26] You know, I think I think the man if you're if your partner isn't isn't having an orgasm through penetration, don't don't immediately feel like that makes you less of a man. Right. Like, say, OK, you know, that has nothing to do with you and your abilities. It has to do with her body and her needs. And so don't immediately have take that as an ego hit, because I think a lot of women aren't saying that because because they're kind of trying to be kind. So it shouldn't be an ego hit to the man.

[00:29:55] And then you want the man to to really support support the woman in the relationship and say, you know, what works for you when you masturbate? What's helpful? Do you do you masturbate? Do you know your body? What can I do? How can we explore this together? How can this be this fun, fun activity we do together and not something that's either something that's wrong with him or wrong with her? It's nothing wrong.

[00:30:23] It gets to be this exploration and how fun, you know, go on this journey together. Look at it as this positive thing as opposed to this problem. Of course, you got to look at positive people. And that I feel like that's how you keep people in relationships, because because unless because we say to the people that are out there who aren't getting sexually satisfied, does that give them justification to go out and go cheat on their partner? Because I hear a lot of women and a lot of men saying, oh, I'm not getting it from you.

[00:30:51] So I'm gonna go over here to the side person and they're going to give it give me what I need. And I'm just like, if you're going to do that, you might as well just leave them. Yeah, I mean, so I think clarity is kind. I think communication is good. I don't. I'm not a supporter of that, right? I think if you're not satisfied, what what are you doing to address that? Are you talking to your partner? Are you exploring? Are you saying, hey, babe, I.

[00:31:22] I miss this part of our life. We used to have it or like or, you know what? I used to have orgasms all the time and now it's just not happening as much. And and I'm noticing that this is frustrating me. And so I want to work on it with you because I love you, because we have a life together, whatever the case may be. Um, and I need to talk to you about it because this matters to me. So I think a lot of people kind of back to the communication, they're not satisfied and they're not saying anything.

[00:31:51] And they're making a lot of assumptions about what's going on and and. And going back and and saying this is important and for that other partner to to also say, OK, let me really let me really hear you. Like, let me be present in this conversation. Let me not get defensive. Let me be compassionate and and remember, oh, my. This person's coming to me because they love me and they care about me and they care about the relationship.

[00:32:18] If they didn't care about me, they'd just be off on their own taking matters into their own hands. So I should I should feel good that they've come to me to share this kind of concern or complaint. People people need to talk. They really need to talk. Yes, they do. People need to talk, go to a therapist or if you're in a relationship, please go talk to your partner or else whilst are you with them. But nevertheless, what do you think about sex in the workplace?

[00:32:46] What do you think about people who are OK with just getting it on in the workplace? Is that something you tell people not to do or is that something you're like, if it happens, it happens? Oh, you know, I mean, I think. It's always, you know, my perspective and when I talk to people is like, is it is the thing consensual? Is it above board? Like different workplaces have different rules around that. Right.

[00:33:13] So like some of that matters if you're if you're a boss and a direct report. Right. Like there's different logistics. So there has to be is there a power imbalance? I would really like question that. Is there. But like people meet in the workplace all the time and they build relationships in the workplace all the time. So it simply goes back to are you consenting adults? Are you being thoughtful? Are you being mindful? Are you thinking about the risks to your role?

[00:33:42] Are you are you recognizing that this is a delicate situation? Are there any are there any things if it's against the rules of H.R. or whatever? Well, then then you have to make, you know, we're adults. You have to think about the consequences of your actions before you act. And and people just find themselves into these situations where they're just acting before they're thinking.

[00:34:10] And it is about are you walking in with eyes wide open, consenting all of that? And if it's safe and it's great, then then fine. And regardless of like the backdrop. Right. Regardless of it's at work or at a bar or whatever. If it's if things are above board and you're able to consent, then that's all fine. OK, I got you. I got you.

[00:34:33] So as a sex therapist, let's say you walk into an office and you just hear somebody getting it on. Come from the CEO's office or no matter who. Actually right there. Yeah. What's going through your mind if you've got to walk past that you hear that? Well, yeah, I mean, I would. I think I would be surprised to encounter that situation. I've never had that.

[00:34:58] But but I would I would suggest like, listen, this is as much as I am a proponent of there. There is no shame in a sexual relationship and there is no taboo. There is a place in time. So don't do that. I definitely feel you because there was a story out of Atlanta of a judge who was who got caught getting it on in her chambers. And guess what? And it wasn't with her husband. It was somebody else. Yeah.

[00:35:26] So that's where I bring that up as from what you says as a sex therapist. What's your take on people who have who have affairs with somebody on the job? Because I've heard those stories not happen all over the place because I know last year there was a CEO hugged up with the HR lady at a concert. They got spotted last year. So I'm like and they both were married.

[00:35:52] So what's your take on why married couples be stepping out on their on their partners at the workplace? Well, I mean, I think it's all sort of illustrations of the fact that people. People very much still have desire alive and well you you want you want to be in a sexual relationship. You want to be satisfied. You want to be wanted all of that.

[00:36:15] And if you're not getting that in your primary partnership, then and you're not communicating about it and you're not solving it, then people do do. Look to satisfy those needs in other ways. And so whether they find that person online or at work or wherever is is sort of irrelevant. It's simply that that there is an unmet need in the primary relationship and they're going outside.

[00:36:41] And I think what we see simply with with the sex that it because it is such a drive that people. People are are sort of sloppy, you know, they're sloppy in their ways and they make poor decisions that have really negative consequences to the rest of their lives, like their financial stability and their and all sorts of other things. And so I think, again, that just speaks to the fact that this is such a universal human need.

[00:37:10] And if people aren't getting it, they they make poor life choices to satisfy that because this is a strong need. So how do we recognize that need and say, OK, we're going to cultivate it in the primary relationship? Because if we don't, then then that need, I don't think it just dies. I think it goes somewhere else. And and sometimes, unfortunately, it goes other places that are really destructive to your lives.

[00:37:39] And I don't think anybody wants that to happen. Nobody sets out to say, oh, you know, after 10 years, I'm going to have an affair and I'm going to have to then, you know, give up half of my finances and separate my family. I don't think anybody wants that. Nobody wants that. But it's a strong need and it's a strong desire. So people end up, I think, making making decisions that have really negative consequences.

[00:38:02] Yeah, I get that. I really think people be thinking with their their genitals instead of their head because because it's like, why would you try to have an affair at your workplace? Because and then when it comes out now, you've got to quit. Now it's oh, so and so has been resigned from their position to avoid being fired because they got caught up in some stuff. So it's just not worth the risk, y'all. If you're listening to this at home, I don't feel it's worth the risk. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

[00:38:32] Like I said, nobody's setting out. Nobody's like, yep, I want to do that. I want to be that person that makes that choice that has all of these ramifications. Nobody said nobody says that. But they find themselves in situations where they they're acting without all of that sort of executive functioning that they could be doing,

[00:38:53] because this is just such a such a innate human need that if we are not talking about it and cultivating it, it can find its way down a down a side path. Of course, of course. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Liquor Talk. Shout out to everybody that's tuned in right now. Definitely appreciate y'all tuning in as we're pushing for 400 episodes. Now, going back to women, where do you think women's desire actually goes in long term relationships?

[00:39:21] Because sometimes in long term relationships, people lose that desire. Let's just be honest. You've said it plenty of times like people lose that desire. So where does it all of a sudden go if you're in a long term relationship? Yeah. Well, I think back to what we were just saying, like, I don't think it's gone. I think it I think it diverts. Right. And so I think which is a positive message, because. If it were just completely gone, the idea of like, OK, how do I bring this back?

[00:39:49] Well, how do you bring something back that's just like completely gone? So I think I think this is hopeful, which is that desire is still there, but it's not. It's been kind of covered up in your primary partnership. And so it's going to it's going to movies and only fans and it's going to romantic scene novels about fairies and all sorts of things. It's going other places. If we're talking specifically about women, it's going to affairs.

[00:40:18] It's going everywhere else, except sometimes that primary partnership. And so so it's it's about recognizing that that this is still something that you want. This is still something that you care about as part of as being a sexual person. And so you have to say, OK, but life has gotten so crazy and so busy and I'm so exhausted all the time and I'm hormonal and all of the things. OK, but this is still something I care about.

[00:40:48] So how do I bring this back into reality and not just keep it in this realm of fiction and fantasy? And so it requires that intention. But it's not gone. It's just it's just sort of backburnered for a lot of people. And so we get to bring that back. We get to bring it forward. So what do so how do people bring that forward?

[00:41:10] Do you have to set aside a day or time to, hey, this is our time or do you have to just get it in when you can or should be set aside a time for this? Yeah. You know, I think if you're in a couple, you should absolutely be intentional and communicate about it. It's not you know, you don't need to put like a schedule on your phone and send each other a Google calendar invite unless that's hot and you want to do that. But but it is about being intentional.

[00:41:38] And I think there's this misunderstanding that. Sex kind of at any point in our lives was really actually all that spontaneous. I think we thought it was you'd go to a bar, you'd meet somebody, you know, at 2 a.m., you'd go home and you're like, wow, that was this crazy, crazy encounter. It wasn't you all you know, everybody decided Saturday night at 11 p.m. was the time to go to the bar. Everybody decided to have drinks. The bar had music on. There was lighting.

[00:42:05] All of it was curated to get you to a place where hopefully that was sort of the result of that night. That was not spontaneous. That was very planned. We just kind of didn't think of it as planned. When you fast forward 20 or 30 years and you've got kids and it's a Saturday night and you're exhausted. So you might not be going to the bar with your partner and and putting together all of those rituals to get together.

[00:42:32] So you have to think about how do you be intentional in the current construct, your current constraints of your life? So recognizing it was never spontaneous and then saying, OK, so that doesn't mean it's any less than. It doesn't mean that there's any less desire. We just we have to think about what's going to work for our rhythm and our routine and our schedule.

[00:42:55] And yeah, if we care about it, we're going to prioritize it, which means we're going to talk about timing, like talk about it. And some people just think that's really unsexy, but it's fun. That can be part of the foreplay, looking forward to it and knowing, OK, Sunday morning, that's our time. So we can be excited because that's the time that the kids are still asleep or they're out of their house at their sports or whatever the case may be. And it doesn't have to be this thing that feels like a chore.

[00:43:22] It can be something you get to look forward to, just like you used to look forward to Saturday nights going out and hoping that you met someone and went home with them. Of course, of course. Now, what is your advice to someone with newborns? Because I have a friend of mine. I'm not going to say their name, but they they mentioned they were just like, oh, it feels like we don't have time to get it in anymore. Because it seems like as soon as I'm about to spark something with her, the newborn starts to cry. So what is your advice to people who have small children?

[00:43:52] You know, because I know a lot of times it's like they're not even getting to touch and have that intimacy because the kids are a distraction. So do they just need to set aside time to hire a babysitter and just, you know, get it in? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think babysitters are great.

[00:44:09] So if you can afford babysitters or have relatives that can come over, parents should access all of the support that they can to really keep themselves sane and keep them feeling like adults that aren't just caregivers. But yes. So newborn. So I have three kids. They're all very close in age, went through newborn stage three times in a row, really back to back.

[00:44:30] I understand the realities of the sleeplessness and the hormonal changes, the body changes, the just the being constantly needed, the constantly, particularly as a woman, constantly touched in ways that it's not really your body anymore. I get all of that. And I think it goes back to there. There is time.

[00:44:53] There really is. If you're having more sex and you're doing it frequently, like we've talked about, each encounter doesn't need to be like a three hour ordeal of all this prep. They can be more playful and more free and simply more quick. Also, I think we all could probably like look at the thing that's on our phones that tell us how long we've been scrolling social media or whatever. There's time. You know, there's probably 20 minutes in your day, right? That you could probably go, oh, yeah.

[00:45:23] OK. Like I was just, you know, looking on Instagram for 30 minutes and kind of lost that minute of time. So if it is a priority for you, I think there is time. If you have small kids, it is it's a great time to just look at your partner and go and sort of make a pact and go, all right. Before we had kids, we were lovers and we had freedom and we were we were adults.

[00:45:52] We're not going to let this child take all that away from us. We're going to we're going to broaden our perspective of who we are, add parent to the identity of who we are. But we're not going to put everything to the side. We're going to figure out a way to sort of recalibrate the whole system of our relationship, add in this kid. But we're not just going to let it all go to the wayside.

[00:46:19] And so just having that intentionality with your partner, it's it's amazing what that will do to facilitate the fact that like there is time. There are these pockets of time. And again, if you're not defining sex as just penetration, you can have these quick sexual encounters before the baby starts crying like it's possible. It's very possible. So some of my people with newborns out there, it's very possible.

[00:46:47] Don't lose that desire because the newborn keeps crying and crying. I just got to find a way to navigate y'all, because I would hate to see y'all out here cheating on each other or leaving each other because of the newborn. And y'all, you know, it's a sad, sad world. Now, now, what do you think? Now, how do people go about reclaiming their sexual time? Because I know you I know you talked about reclaiming sex, sexual agency.

[00:47:16] What does that look like? Because sometimes we all get stressed out in the workplace. And and, you know, in America, they seem like they jacking the price of everything because of of a president being petty, you know. So how do we reclaim our time to reclaim to fulfill our sexual energies?

[00:47:36] Yeah, I mean, I think I think that perspective, again, you know, being a woman sort of speaking from my own experience and from and to women is that is that particularly as after women become parents. I think there is just this sense. But also as we age and enter into, you know, more of these, you know, quote, adulthood that.

[00:48:02] That sex is just this thing that is less important, that it's just something like, OK, that was fun, but you're a mom now. And so, like, this is your priority. And so what I think I think is really this empowering stance is that you can be all of those things and we get to be all of those things and we get to say, hey, there's nothing wrong with me focusing and prioritizing this aspect of my life. There's nothing about it that takes away from any of the other pieces of my life.

[00:48:32] This is something that that I care deeply about. It's a piece of who I am. And it's something that that I get to cultivate without shame, without blame, without being called selfish, because any time, particularly, again, moms and women, any time there's this like time and attention that we bring to ourselves, I think there can be a lot of guilt attached to it. So I really want women to say, no, no, like this is not something you should ever feel guilty about.

[00:48:59] This is something that's that's critical to who you are and you get to embrace it. Of course, of course. So what so is stress really what kills desire? Because sometimes it's like we get it. It's sex guy. And how do we not let stress kill desire? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, any like medical journal, like stress is like stress kills everything. It's like it gives you the heart attacks.

[00:49:25] It gives you like stress is just one of those like negative indicators for so many things. So stress is bad. Like stress can absolutely tank and tank desire, tank good communication, tank intimacy. So I think, yes, like you just for any aspect, we should all have good coping strategies to manage stress. We should all be taking care of ourselves in all the ways and sleeping enough and eating right and all of it.

[00:49:52] But I think one of the things about sex that's good to know, my perspective anyway, is I also think sex is a buffer against stress. So people don't often think of it that way. They're sort of when I'm less stressed, I'll have sex. And my perspective is that I actually think sex can be a bomb, a salve on stress. It can itself reduce stress. And it can also be a buffer against stress.

[00:50:18] So I think if you're really taking care for you're taking care of yourself in that manner, you are somebody who often can feel less stressed, be less stressed, have your relationship with your partner be stronger. And so the stress gets to you less. So I think flipping it around and seeing sex as really like a protective factor against stress can also be, I think, really helpful and certainly true for a lot of people.

[00:50:47] Definitely, definitely, definitely. Listen, if y'all getting stressed out there, y'all might need to go bust and go have some sex. That's what y'all need to do, basically. So now I need you on this next one. I need you to help the men out on this one. What are women probably thinking about sex that they probably won't say out loud? This one can really help the fellas out who are listening to this. What are they thinking? Well, if I'm thinking like in the moment, there are certainly women who are like, would he just finish already?

[00:51:14] Because they're not having any fun in there, but they're not saying that. But they're like doing their to-do list in their head and just hoping that things end as quickly as possible. I think there are women like that. There are certainly women that are thinking, oh my God, I just hope he doesn't touch me, doesn't look at me. Maybe he'll fall asleep on the couch tonight and we don't have to do that. I think unfortunately there's women who feel that way.

[00:51:43] And then on the flip, I think there's a lot of women that are like, I wish you would just touch me like this. I wish you would just do this particular thing. But don't say that. And so they sort of settle for certain types of sexual behavior that they're not actually getting satisfaction from. But they don't speak up and they don't provide guidance and they don't say, hey, no, I want to be touched this way. Or can you slow down? Or can you do this?

[00:52:13] There's that sort of, again, that shame that women might be thinking something but don't feel comfortable sharing. So it's like, I still don't get why women don't say that. I get they don't want to hurt a man's ego. But they don't understand that us men, we would respect them more if they speak up. You know, because one thing I've learned the hard way with sex is every woman is different. You can't pleasure one woman the same way.

[00:52:40] You definitely got to speak up, you know, because what may have one woman going crazy, another woman going to look at you like, what the fuck are you doing? Ha ha. Right. Yeah, everyone is different. I mean, I think that's great. I think having more men recognize that and having more men say, yeah, I'll respect you more if you, you know, assert your perspective and share with me what's going to make you really happy because I'm going to respect that and I'm going to be eager to please. I think that's great.

[00:53:37] Not be satisfied with a particular thing. Having the feeling safe enough to share what they really like can it goes back to where we started, you know, it can be really scary. So really having a partner who's saying and maybe outside of the bedroom saying, hey, if there's any for anything that I can do differently, just tell me. I would love to know, you know, so maybe take it out of that situation and have that chat while you're making breakfast or having coffee or playing with the kids at the park, whatever you're doing.

[00:54:06] So take it out of that situation and just say, you know, like, I'm just trying things in there and I'm kind of guessing or whatever, or I think it's working for you, but I'm, you know, tell me. Like, I think that would be great. Yeah. Yeah. You got to tell them you got to talk in a relationship because like I say, closed mouths don't get fed. So you got to talk, you got to communicate. So what is some advice you want to give to the people who are single and listening to this?

[00:54:34] Because I know it's hard out here for people who are single to get it in, fulfill their sexual needs. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, if you're single, it's a different batch of problems, but similar themes, right? I think you still get to prioritize that. You need, I think one of the beauties of a long-term relationship is that you get to really know each other and you get to be vulnerable. And I think the sex gets better.

[00:54:58] I think if you're single, sometimes those one nights, you know, they can be fun and novel, but when it comes to real pleasure and, and as you said, like really getting to know what your partner likes and dislikes and what works for them, that takes, that takes a minute.

[00:55:11] Um, and so I think people should just continue to be, have good communication around sex to be really, to be really clear to, for women and anybody to say, Hey, this is something that matters to me. It's important to me. It's important in my relationship. It's important when everybody's happy. So we're going to talk about it, um, to feel fine going and having a good time, um, and to be empowered.

[00:55:40] Uh, but to do so, I think in a way that's like really respectful and again, communicating, whether that's a one night stand or 30 years in communication still matters. Of course. Of course. Now, what is your advice to people in relationships who, who might be struggling sexually? Um, at what point do they need to go see, seek a sex therapist? Yeah. I mean, I don't think you ever have to wait till things feel dire.

[00:56:05] I think that's often what, what people do, whether it's with sex or with like some medical condition, right? You sort of wait till like, okay, I can no longer stand this thing. And it's become this huge problem in my life. Um, it's never too, it's never too early. You want to just talk to somebody and get, it's just getting an outside perspective. Like things don't need to be irreparably broken that you're at the point of an affair or you've already had an affair. You're at the point of divorce or whatever the case may be.

[00:56:35] Um, it can just be this place where you can just say, Hey, like we just, we need, this conversation feels a little scary. We just need sort of like a facilitator. A lot of, a lot of therapists will do like a one-time only consultation. Some will do ongoing, some do workshops, you know? So there's other methods too. And I would just say like, you don't need, you don't need like a dire problem.

[00:57:00] And I would say if you're at the space where you have a dire problem, you've, you've waited too long, right? Like if you're at the emergency room door, so to speak, you've waited too long. You need to do those regular checks. That's, that's a fact. So now to the couples, what going to a couple store, um, visiting a couple store, buying toys or buying other products, would that help to, would that help in the relationship to where it doesn't get to that dire point of now we need to go see a therapist?

[00:57:29] I mean, stores with toys and all sorts of stuff. It's great. Like, even if you don't buy anything, if you go, if you just go and look around together, it's going to spur conversation. It's going to spur like, Oh, look at that. Oh my gosh. Like that's different. I didn't know that existed. I am all for people sort of venturing into spaces together to just be curious. And if that means, yeah, we're going to try this toy and you try it out and you feel totally ridiculous and you hate it. Okay.

[00:57:58] Well then like you did this thing together and, and whatever, like so much of this is remembering that this is just play. Like it's meant to be fun. Um, and some people really like toys. Some people don't like toys. Like the, the, the world of what people are into is huge. So just, just enjoy it. And there's, you know, there's no one size fits all. There's no magic pill.

[00:58:26] Um, but it is like, have fun, be curious. Yeah. If you want to go to a store, go to a store. Uh, you know, I think thinking that going and like buying a vibrator is going to like solve. A problem that's so far down the road. I don't think that's the case, you know, but, um, but it's, it's a great experience. If you venture into it with like, with a, with a fun, optimistic mind. Of course. Of course. Now sex, we get sex.

[00:58:55] When is the book coming out? I don't know when the book's coming out. Hopefully soon. So I'm waiting on, um, a publisher to work through their process, which can probably take forever. Uh, so I don't know, but hopefully soon. And I'll definitely let you know when it comes out. Please do. And lastly, why do people need to go out and buy the book when it comes out? Yeah. So the book is meant to be fun.

[00:59:22] You know, there is some clinical, there's some how to's, there's some what to do's. There's also some stories and some vulnerability. Like it's not an intense clinical therapeutic book. They should buy it because it'll bring up conversation for their partner. It'll empower them to go, let's try this. Let's have some fun. It's, it's meant to be fun. And it's meant to, it's meant to kind of get your, get your mind thinking and saying, Hey, this, this is a part of my life. I get to like, I get to embrace let's, let's do this.

[00:59:53] Of course. Of course. Um, Caroline, I want to thank you for blessing the liquor talk with your presence. Thank you for coming to have a drink with me. Thank you for spending your morning with me because I know it's morning where you are right now. It's night where I might. So I definitely appreciate it for the first international episode of this season of liquor talk. So I definitely appreciate your time. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for blessing the liquor talk with your presence. And if people want to reach you, how can they reach you? Yeah, I think my website's probably the best place to find me.

[01:00:22] Um, it's www.desireinreallife.com. And it's linked to the same Instagram desire in real life. Um, yeah. And I'll keep you posted on the book and it's been a really fun chat and thank you so much for having me. Thank you for being here and thank you for the pod match for bringing, providing us with this guest. And thank you to all the listeners out there for tuning into this episode of liquor talk, especially to you mama, because I appreciate you for binge watching the episodes.

[01:00:51] You know, I got your love to family. So thank you everybody that's been tuned in. Whether you tune down Apple podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or you watch this on YouTube or you watch this on TikTok. Thank you all for the support. Thank you all for everything. Um, keep drinking and keep pouring it up. This has been the liquor talk podcast, y'all until next time. Peace.