Host Erik Fleming speaks with historian Dr. Karlos K. Hill about the meaning of Juneteenth, the need to remember slavery honestly, and the case for a national memorial.
Then program manager and author Justin Carter discusses violence prevention, the power of language, and his forthcoming book Translation: From Bigotry to Justice.
The episode also includes news updates and Erik's commentary on current political fights over reparations, public memory, and civic responsibility.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:05 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:14 And so, as this episode drops, I'm hoping that everybody had a good Juneteenth, that you enjoyed the,
00:02:15 --> 00:02:19 festivities, hope that you found some festivities wherever you live,
00:02:19 --> 00:02:24 and that you were able to learn some things or just enjoy the culture.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:29 But if you didn't get enough of that. One of my guests is Dr.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:34 Karlos K. Hill, and he is becoming a regular on the podcast.
00:02:34 --> 00:02:38 And Dr. Hill is going to talk about the significance of Juneteenth,
00:02:38 --> 00:02:42 why it's important, especially in these times that we're in.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:47 And then my other guest is a young brother named Justin Carter.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:52 Justin is the program manager for this organization called Futures Without violence.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:59 And he's an up-and-coming activist in his own right.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:03 He's about to drop a book, so we're going to talk a little bit about that,
00:03:04 --> 00:03:06 as well as some other issues that are going on.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:12 He's another millennial that I have the honor and privilege to highlight and
00:03:12 --> 00:03:15 lift up for the listeners.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:20 And another voice that I believe you'll be hearing a lot from down the road.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:25 So I'm really glad that I was able to get them on.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:34 So, speaking about guests, I mentioned that there's going to be some changes, right, last episode.
00:03:34 --> 00:03:41 So, one of the changes is already that starting last episode,
00:03:42 --> 00:03:48 the commentary part of the podcast is going to be on YouTube.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 So, last week's commentary is the first one that's on there.
00:03:53 --> 00:03:57 So, you know, some people will get to see me do the thing because what I'm going
00:03:57 --> 00:04:03 to do is like when I record my commentary, I'm going to record that on video
00:04:03 --> 00:04:04 and just put that out there.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:09 So hopefully, you know, that'll get some more people to pay attention to the
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 podcast and join you all in listening to it.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:20 And the other change, you might notice it because it all depends on how things
00:04:20 --> 00:04:27 go, But as most of you all who have been listening know, this is not my profession.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:29 This is not my regular job.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:32 And at my regular job, my position has changed.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:39 So that changes the time that I have to interview people. So I've got to reschedule a lot of folks.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:45 So hopefully, you know, we can kind of keep everything flowing, you know.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:51 And, you know, right now, the guests that I have lined up within the next two
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55 or three weeks, barring that they can't make it, we should be good to go.
00:04:55 --> 00:04:59 But after that, we'll get some, we have to make some changes.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:06 So I'm going to be doing that over the next week to get that set up.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:13 So a lot of the people that I want to be on can still come on and we'll go from there.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:21 If you want to be a guest or if you want to donate, a one-time donation,
00:05:21 --> 00:05:28 or if you want to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that at www.momenterik.com.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:31 If you do that, I will greatly appreciate that.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:36 And maybe I'll get enough because I was, you know, I was trying to push for it.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:42 My goal is if I can get 20, and you've heard me say that,
00:05:43 --> 00:05:50 and, you know, if I can get 20 subscribers, then I won't have to worry about my other job.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:55 I could do this full time. And I know that's a lofty goal, but,
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 you know, you've got to set a goal in order to reach it.
00:05:58 --> 00:06:02 So that's where I've, that's been my target.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:06 So, you know, the more people that subscribe, you know, the better,
00:06:07 --> 00:06:11 but I just really appreciate y'all tuning in and listening.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:17 And again, if you want to learn more about me and how this podcast came about
00:06:17 --> 00:06:22 and all that, then go to www.momenterik.com.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:27 All right, enough about that. Let's go ahead and get this program started.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:33 And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:46 Erik, 12 people died when a private single-engine turbo prop plane crashed shortly
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 after takeoff near Butler Memorial Airport in Missouri.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:56 A U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber crashed on takeoff during a test mission at Edwards
00:06:56 --> 00:06:59 Air Force Base in California, killing all eight people on board.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:04 Georgia House Republican leaders postponed redrawing the state's legislative
00:07:04 --> 00:07:08 maps during a special session called by Governor Brian Kemp.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:12 The U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear a former high school student's First
00:07:12 --> 00:07:17 Amendment challenge against an Indiana school district's policy that prohibited
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 her from displaying anti-abortion flyers on school walls.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:25 The Trump administration is intervening in a lawsuit to challenge Evanston,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:30 Illinois' first-in-the-nation housing reparations program for Black residents.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:35 Georgia Republicans selected U.S. Representative Mike Collins to face incumbent
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 Democratic Senator John Ossoff in the general election.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:43 Rick Jackson won the Republican primary runoff for Georgia governor and will
00:07:43 --> 00:07:48 advance to the general election against Democrat Keisha Lance Bottoms.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:52 Janice Lewis-George won the Democratic mayoral nomination in Washington,
00:07:52 --> 00:07:58 D.C., and Robert White secured a decisive victory to win the Democratic nomination
00:07:58 --> 00:08:00 for D.C.'s delegate to Congress.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:05 Everett Wess won the Alabama Democratic runoff for the U.S. Senate and will
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 face Republican Barry Moore for the open seat.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:14 N'kiyla Jasmine Thomas and Jim Priest have advanced to a Democratic runoff election
00:08:14 --> 00:08:19 in Oklahoma, with the winner set to face Republican Kevin Hearn for the U.S. Senate seat.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:24 The U.S. Supreme Court rejected a gun industry challenge to a New York law that
00:08:24 --> 00:08:29 allows lawsuits against firearm manufacturers, wholesalers, and dealers for
00:08:29 --> 00:08:30 endangering public safety.
00:08:31 --> 00:08:36 And former President Barack Obama hosted thousands of attendees at the grand
00:08:36 --> 00:08:43 opening of the $850 million multi-use Obama Presidential Center campus in Chicago.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:47 I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.
00:08:55 --> 00:09:02 And thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for my guest, Dr. Karlos K.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:09 Hill. Karlos K. Hill is a writer, speaker, and community-engaged scholar who
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 brings deeper perspective to historical racism.
00:09:12 --> 00:09:16 Dr. Hill works with students, leaders, and communities to understand our collective
00:09:16 --> 00:09:21 past and heal in relation to our most traumatic histories.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:26 Dr. Hill is Regents Professor of the Clara Luper Department of African and
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 African American Studies, the University of Oklahoma.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:35 Dr. Hill is the author of three books, Beyond the Rope, The Impact of Lynching
00:09:35 --> 00:09:39 on Black Culture and Memory, The Murder of Emmett Till, A Graphic History,
00:09:39 --> 00:09:44 and The 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre, A Photographic History.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:50 Dr. Hill founded the Tulsa Race Massacre Oklahoma Teachers Institute to support
00:09:50 --> 00:09:55 teaching the history of the race massacre to thousands of middle school and high school students.
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 He also serves on the boards of the Freedom Center Planning Committee,
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 the Clara Luper Legacy Committee.
00:10:02 --> 00:10:07 And the Board of Scholars for Facing History and Ourselves, and is actively
00:10:07 --> 00:10:11 engaged on other community initiatives working toward racial justice.
00:10:12 --> 00:10:21 And it is always a pleasure and an honor to talk to this brother and for him to be on this podcast.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:28 So without further ado, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:10:28 --> 00:10:33 again on this podcast, Dr. Karlos K. Hill.
00:10:46 --> 00:10:50 Dr. Karlos K. Hill. How you doing, brother? You doing good?
00:10:51 --> 00:10:56 You know, I'm always in good spirits when I when I'm able to be on your show
00:10:56 --> 00:11:01 and to share whatever knowledge I have with with you and your audience.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:09 So I'm in good spirits on on on a on the cusp of Juneteenth remembrance. So thank you for asking.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 Yes, sir. Well, happy Juneteenth to you. By the time this will air,
00:11:14 --> 00:11:18 the holiday would have passed. But I couldn't I couldn't have this holiday go
00:11:19 --> 00:11:24 without getting some some knowledge from you about the holiday and all that.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:32 So, you know, I start off with a quote that I want you to respond to. So this is the quote.
00:11:32 --> 00:11:35 None of us are free until we're all free.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:40 That's music to my ears. That is Ubuntu in action.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:46 That is Ubuntu made concrete. Ubuntu, for those,
00:11:46 --> 00:11:57 in your audience who may be unfamiliar, is a Zulu sort of phrase that means I am because we are.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 I am because we are.
00:12:00 --> 00:12:06 It is profound African wisdom, but it's also a theory of humanity.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:12 And as a theory of humanity, what Ubuntu really is about is my humanity,
00:12:13 --> 00:12:17 my freedom is bound up in your freedom.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:23 My unfreedom is bound up in your unfreedom. Right.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:30 Our lives, as distinct and different as they may be, are interconnected.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:35 And so when you when you have that kind of understanding of the world,
00:12:36 --> 00:12:42 right, those kinds of statements make a lot of sense to the extent that you
00:12:42 --> 00:12:44 don't have that view of the world.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:53 Those statements strike one as kind of cute or kind of sort of aspirational.
00:12:53 --> 00:13:00 Right. But it in no way tells us who we really are in relationship to each other.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:04 Right? That's something that maybe idealistic people believe,
00:13:04 --> 00:13:07 or that's optimistic people believe that.
00:13:07 --> 00:13:09 That's not really how it is.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:16 Ubuntu says, not only is that the way we should understand our humanity,
00:13:16 --> 00:13:21 Ubuntu tells us that our humanity, or excuse me.
00:13:23 --> 00:13:30 Our humanity, right, is rooted in each other, right? There is no other,
00:13:30 --> 00:13:37 right? We are human beings because we've come to treat each other with humanity.
00:13:37 --> 00:13:42 That is what it means to be human, to treat others with humanity.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:47 That is profound. That's not just wisdom.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:53 That is profound reordering of of how we relate to each other as human beings
00:13:53 --> 00:13:58 and so you can only have you can that quote only makes sense to me,
00:13:59 --> 00:14:06 right through the lens of ubuntu right and so that is a powerful word brother fleming,
00:14:06 --> 00:14:14 yeah that was you know a lot of us have said that but the the credit for this one goes to Opal Lee,
00:14:15 --> 00:14:19 which I think is appropriate because she's considered the grandmother of the
00:14:19 --> 00:14:21 holiday we're going to discuss.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:29 So, Dr. Karlos K. Hill, what is Juneteenth and why is it important to celebrate?
00:14:30 --> 00:14:37 Man, that's why I'm in a good mood today because when I think about Juneteenth,
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 It is Freedom Day. It is Jubilee Day.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:50 It is the day in which slavery or Black people who were enslaved in Texas finally came.
00:14:50 --> 00:14:57 But it also is a moment where slavery in this country, in terms of lived reality, came to an end. June.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:03 19th, 1865.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:10 That is Freedom Day. That is the day of Jubilee for some of the last enslaved
00:15:10 --> 00:15:15 people in the United States to gain freedom truly.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:22 For the shackles of slavery to be removed and for them to move into a new phase,
00:15:22 --> 00:15:24 the phase of being free people.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 That is what Juneteenth represents.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:35 It is the hopes and dreams of millions of enslaved people coming true,
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 that one day they would be free.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:46 For 246 years before that, slavery was a nightmare, right?
00:15:46 --> 00:15:51 Slavery, according to the United Nations, their most recent,
00:15:52 --> 00:15:54 their most sort of recent.
00:15:55 --> 00:16:01 Sort of discussion of the impact of the slave trade and slavery,
00:16:02 --> 00:16:10 talked about slavery as the bravest crime against humanity in world history.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:16 It is the darkest hour, not just in our country, but in world history.
00:16:17 --> 00:16:26 And on June 19, 1865, that horror came to an end.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:29 That nightmare came to an end.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:36 And so because of that, it is a jubilee. It is freedom day, freedom that many
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38 thought would never come about.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:44 Because for 246 years preceding that, freedom had been denied.
00:16:45 --> 00:16:51 And it took a four-year civil war, the bloodiest war still in American history,
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 to break the chapels of slavery.
00:16:55 --> 00:17:02 And so Juneteenth is a moment where we remember, where enslaved people,
00:17:02 --> 00:17:07 in fact, remembered that 246 years that preceded it.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:13 The suffering that preceded it, the contributions that they had made to the
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 United States society that has never been acknowledged.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:24 Juneteenth became that moment of freedom, but also a reflection on how we as
00:17:24 --> 00:17:28 a people have gotten here in the first place.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:32 And so Juneteenth for all those reasons is sacred.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 It's a sacred observance.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:43 And, you know, for me, it's not just an important, it is not just an important
00:17:43 --> 00:17:49 moment to remember, right? It's very personal to me, you know.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 I am someone who is a descendant of enslaved people.
00:17:53 --> 00:18:00 Juneteenth has given me the opportunity to bear witness to their sufferings,
00:18:00 --> 00:18:02 to their sacrifices, to their contributions.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 My enslaved ancestors.
00:18:07 --> 00:18:14 Speaking of Ubuntu, I am because we are. I am not here if it were not for the
00:18:14 --> 00:18:19 resilience and endurance of my enslaved ancestors. I am not here.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:22 I am only because they were.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:28 And so Juneteenth, as a grassroots holiday that existed for 157 years before
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 it became a federal holiday,
00:18:31 --> 00:18:37 has done that work for us, has grounded us in the memory of our ancestors as
00:18:37 --> 00:18:39 descendants of enslaved people.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:47 And so Juneteenth for me is a profound reckoning with my own enslaved past.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:54 And it is a moment where I can deep, not just remember, but have deep gratitude.
00:18:56 --> 00:19:02 Or what my enslaved ancestors, Annie Pilate, went through.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:07 And her great, great, or excuse me, and her mother, Myra Kamel,
00:19:08 --> 00:19:14 who were enslaved people in the Alabama Black Belt during the 1830s, 40s, and 50s.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:21 And so for me, it is a moment to honor and to have deep gratitude enslaved to
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 my enslaved ancestors and,
00:19:25 --> 00:19:31 what they gave to me as an inheritance so that I could live in these United
00:19:31 --> 00:19:38 States, not just live, but live with deep pride for where I come from.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:43 That is what Juneteenth for me really is about, is a sacred moment for me to
00:19:43 --> 00:19:52 pay my respects, to have I have to pay gratitude to ancestors who never experienced freedom,
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 but paved the way for me, too, because of their sacrifices.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:02 For me, at the deepest level, Juneteenth is about bearing witness to that.
00:20:03 --> 00:20:08 Yeah. So how do you respond to people who say that this holiday is unnecessary?
00:20:10 --> 00:20:21 I am irritated with people who are ignorant and or indifferent to Juneteenth as a sacred observance.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 I would try to begin a conversation with someone who's opposed to Juneteenth
00:20:27 --> 00:20:33 as an observance, a national observance, by saying to them very clearly, you know,
00:20:34 --> 00:20:40 slavery is the most important institution in our nation's history.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 When you discount Juneteenth, you discount that.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:57 Slavery was so important to our history that slavery is older than even the
00:20:57 --> 00:21:00 American Constitutional Republic.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:09 Slavery existed for 246 years, chattel slavery, by law and practiced.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:14 1619, when the first enslaved people arrived to the shores of Virginia.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:21 June 19, 1865, when the last enslaved people are freed in Galveston.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:27 Blavery defined American life, so much so that on the eve of the Civil War,
00:21:28 --> 00:21:33 enslaved people accounted for 50% of the nation's wealth.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:39 If you are indifferent to Juneteenth, you're indifferent to the nation's history,
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 and the importance of slavery to it.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:55 Our nation is only 237 years old if we consider the founding 1789 when we ratify,
00:21:55 --> 00:22:00 1788, 1789 when we ratify the Constitution.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:08 And so if we take that as our founding date, that's 237 years of history as
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 a nation versus 246 as a nation,
00:22:13 --> 00:22:18 in which slavery was its founding institution, most important institution.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:27 So to deny Juneteenth is to deny our very history, to be ignorant of our very history.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 And so it is, if we don't want to truly understand our history,
00:22:32 --> 00:22:34 we can be indifferent to Juneteenth.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:40 But if we truly want to have an authentic understanding of our history,
00:22:40 --> 00:22:42 Juneteenth is important to our nation.
00:22:42 --> 00:22:49 Right because it is the one moment in our in our in our in our sort of national,
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 remembrance sort of it's.
00:22:54 --> 00:23:01 It's the one moment in our nation particularly since june of 2021 when it became
00:23:01 --> 00:23:06 a national observant is the one moment where we talk about think about reflect
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 on the history of slavery right,
00:23:10 --> 00:23:16 Juneteenth plays a really important role in educating us and hopefully creating,
00:23:17 --> 00:23:20 compassion around the history of slavery and the enslaved.
00:23:21 --> 00:23:28 It's really, really important because there are very few national,
00:23:28 --> 00:23:32 and in fact, I would say there is no national memorial,
00:23:32 --> 00:23:37 to the history of slavery or the enslaved that has been created by our government.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:44 But we're 157 years later, and there's still no memorial to enslaved people,
00:23:44 --> 00:23:49 national memorial created by the United States government honoring enslaved people.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:58 So 157 years later, Juneteenth, as a grassroots observance amongst enslaved
00:23:58 --> 00:24:02 people initially, but ultimately the descendants of those enslaved people.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:11 Have tried to, at a grassroots level, remember the significance and importance
00:24:11 --> 00:24:12 of enslavement to this country.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:21 Honor the sacrifices and the sufferings of enslaved people all with an eye toward how, you know,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:28 the understanding and being grounded in the history of slavery could help us
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 fight the current day struggles or the struggles of the day.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:38 And so Juneteenth has had to do all that work all by itself,
00:24:39 --> 00:24:43 because of the boy created by a national government,
00:24:44 --> 00:24:52 and a society that has been unwilling to be honest about the true significance
00:24:52 --> 00:24:58 of slavery and certainly the nightmare that slavery was for enslaved people.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:03 All of that Juneteenth has bore the weight of that,
00:25:04 --> 00:25:14 for 157 years and only since 2021 have we as a nation began to inch closer to acknowledging that.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:20 I think until we actually have a national memorial monument created by the United
00:25:20 --> 00:25:26 States government, we will continue to have these kinds of conversations about,
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 well, some people don't believe that it's important.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:36 A true national monument or memorial to enslaved people that centered them in
00:25:36 --> 00:25:42 their experience would, I think, go a long way of addressing that.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:49 Because of the dialogues, because of the honest conversations that would be
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 necessary for that memorial to be created.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 That is where the change and transformation i think would at least begin,
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 and hopefully from there honest conversations about how the history of slavery
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07 show up today like if we can get to the place of saying it's significant it's
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 matter to our nation's history,
00:26:11 --> 00:26:15 the next step is to talk about how that history shows up today since we have
00:26:16 --> 00:26:20 given it its significance and import right It's a one-two punch.
00:26:21 --> 00:26:30 But because we have ultimately refused as a nation to deal with the enormity of enslavement,
00:26:31 --> 00:26:37 the horrors, the nightmare that it was for enslaved people, and how that intergenerational
00:26:37 --> 00:26:41 trauma shows up today in the form of legacies,
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 we have commentary like what you mentioned.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 It is a symptom of our relationship.
00:26:49 --> 00:26:55 It's not an aberration. And so for me as a historian of lynching and racial
00:26:55 --> 00:27:00 violence inclusive of slavery, because of those kinds of understandings,
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 it is a matter to me to position people.
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 To not just know, but to know to care.
00:27:10 --> 00:27:16 That is the thing that a national memorial, I think, would help to cure,
00:27:16 --> 00:27:23 go a long way to cure that ignorance and indifference. So that is truly my call to action.
00:27:26 --> 00:27:31 For this year's Juneteenth is that, yes, as a nation, we have ultimately,
00:27:31 --> 00:27:37 after 150 plus years, decided to elevate it to a national observance.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:44 That's a big step for us as a country, but that's not the only step.
00:27:45 --> 00:27:53 That's one of many steps that we need to take to address and authentically account
00:27:53 --> 00:27:57 for the impact that slavery had on our society and continues to have on.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:02 Well, that sounds like a project. That sounds like something we need to have
00:28:02 --> 00:28:09 some further discussion about that about the memorial and then two it leads,
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 it really was leading into my next question,
00:28:13 --> 00:28:18 so i'm going to rephrase the question the way i instead of what i originally wrote it,
00:28:19 --> 00:28:25 because you talked about the importance but in this climate right the trump
00:28:25 --> 00:28:30 administration just announced that it was challenging evanston illinois's reparation
00:28:30 --> 00:28:32 programs for black residents,
00:28:32 --> 00:28:38 and the department of defense is still removing photos and artifacts relating to black soldiers.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:48 So how can we stress the importance strategically in this climate?
00:28:49 --> 00:28:54 I mean, I think that, I mean, I'm certainly, Brother Fleming,
00:28:55 --> 00:29:01 I love your question because you've elevated me beyond the historian to a strategist.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:10 I am certainly not a strategist. And I think that's something that I'm slightly
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 proud about in the sense that,
00:29:12 --> 00:29:17 it has given me a clear voice to speak the,
00:29:18 --> 00:29:23 truths of slavery without worrying about whether it's strategic or whether it's
00:29:23 --> 00:29:28 going to land well or whether it's going to ultimately help me achieve my aim.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:35 My aim, honestly, given the climate that we're in, is not to create change.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39 I don't think change in this climate is truly possible, right?
00:29:40 --> 00:29:46 But we can, and this is where I come in as an educator, not a strategist, I can seed.
00:29:48 --> 00:29:55 I'm a seed sower. I am seeding the kind of knowledge and hopefully compassionate
00:29:55 --> 00:29:59 relationship to these histories in my classroom,
00:30:00 --> 00:30:03 in conversations with people like you, brilliant people like you,
00:30:04 --> 00:30:09 as well as audiences that I've had the opportunity to engage with.
00:30:09 --> 00:30:17 It's me seeding these ideas, and in seeding these ideas, creating room for the true strategists.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:25 The true strategists who know how to navigate and maneuver within the kind of
00:30:25 --> 00:30:31 political climate that we're in, that is truly hostile, not only hostile to me, right?
00:30:32 --> 00:30:41 There is hostility, but truly there is a memory rebellion underway in our country.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:48 A rebellion rooted in erasing not just the history of slavery,
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 but all histories that would seemingly,
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 present a picture of America.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:05 That is counter to a narrative that America is the greatest country in the world
00:31:05 --> 00:31:07 that has ever existed and ever will exist.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:16 Anything that undercuts, you know, this idea that America is great,
00:31:17 --> 00:31:24 and a country that is exceptional in world history is not allowed.
00:31:26 --> 00:31:30 If any of the audience has sort of followed the kind of narrative construction
00:31:30 --> 00:31:38 of America, you know, as it relates to the America 250 commemorations,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 America is a great country.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:50 That never institutionalized chattel slavery. That's not a line anywhere.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:54 Slavery is gone. We're not dealing with that.
00:31:55 --> 00:32:00 We're not going to deal with the era of lynching that came after enslavement.
00:32:00 --> 00:32:02 We're not going to talk about Jim Crow.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:12 Those are not just narrative choices because of space or because of, those are true choices.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:19 Because those, because eliminating those stories, eliminating those experiences,
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22 allows us today to say that we are good.
00:32:22 --> 00:32:28 To the extent that we highlight those experiences and talk about the legacies
00:32:28 --> 00:32:32 of that experience, now we got a conversation for today.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:36 America ain't looking as great as we say it is.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 And so that I think is a true.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:46 There's a true memory rebellion underfoot.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:52 As a educator, I have deepened my teaching in this climate.
00:32:52 --> 00:32:57 But I would be, you know.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:06 I think for me, strategizing about how to navigate and maneuver at this moment,
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09 exceedingly hard if you're trying to tell.
00:33:10 --> 00:33:15 If you're trying to tell what Ida B. Wells would say, the threadbare truth,
00:33:15 --> 00:33:20 if you're trying to tell that story, it's hard to negotiate it,
00:33:20 --> 00:33:23 navigate a climate that is erasing that actively.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 I think this is just truly, for me, a moment of truth telling.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:34 And that is something that is above and beyond sort of strategy,
00:33:34 --> 00:33:41 just trying to tell the truth and let the power of that truth sit in rooms, sit in hearts and minds,
00:33:41 --> 00:33:46 and let it see the activist work that I think, and I think what you're pointing
00:33:46 --> 00:33:52 to, the activist work that could bring it about, the activist work that could really change the tide.
00:33:53 --> 00:34:00 I'm really just trying to sow the seeds that hopefully will take root in people.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:07 And then make it easier for activists who are really doing the amazing work.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:14 And probably my greatest asset in this work is I'm deeply connected to the activist
00:34:14 --> 00:34:19 community, fighting for repair or historic racial violence.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:25 They have taught me strategy, but I would say that I'm still not a strategist.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:30 But that would be how I approach it in particular, dear brother.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:37 Well, you know, you're far smarter than me, but I would push back in the sense
00:34:37 --> 00:34:41 that sowing seeds is strategic, right?
00:34:41 --> 00:34:46 Because a farmer is not just going to throw the seeds anywhere.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:50 They're going to deliberately pick fertile ground in order to sow those seeds
00:34:50 --> 00:34:53 so they can be able to get the harvest down the road, right?
00:34:54 --> 00:35:00 So your photo ground is oklahoma university where you teach it right yes that's
00:35:00 --> 00:35:03 where you're sowing those seeds that's where you're planting the state of oklahoma
00:35:03 --> 00:35:07 i would even give you latitude for in sowing those seeds so it's like,
00:35:08 --> 00:35:12 don't sell yourself short brother you you you're part of the strategy you you just,
00:35:13 --> 00:35:14 you just a farmer we.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:19 We we trying to get people to buy the product once is harvesting. Yes.
00:35:20 --> 00:35:22 I guess. But yeah, don't say you're so sure.
00:35:23 --> 00:35:26 Well, well, thank you for giving me a promotion.
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30 I appreciate it. I'm looking for a higher wage now.
00:35:34 --> 00:35:40 Before Juneteenth, did you have a problem as a black historian celebrating the 4th of July?
00:35:42 --> 00:35:46 It really depends on what we're celebrating and what we're talking about in
00:35:46 --> 00:35:48 relationship to the 4th of July.
00:35:49 --> 00:35:56 The 4th of July is a moment where, you know, our nation, which wasn't a nation
00:35:56 --> 00:36:00 at that point, July 4th, 1776,
00:36:00 --> 00:36:05 it was a moment when American colonists declared their independence,
00:36:05 --> 00:36:07 declared their freedom from,
00:36:08 --> 00:36:11 Great Britain, the greatest power in the world at that time.
00:36:12 --> 00:36:19 That is what July 4, 1776 stands for, right?
00:36:19 --> 00:36:23 A declaration of independence, a declaration of freedom from.
00:36:23 --> 00:36:31 At that same time, there were enslaved Africans throughout the 13 colonies that
00:36:31 --> 00:36:33 would become the United States.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:40 13 years later, of 1789 when the United States becomes a formal constitutional
00:36:40 --> 00:36:44 republic, slavery is enshrined in the constitution.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:53 And it's enshrined in several ways. The three-fifths clause that basically describes
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 enslaved people as three-fifths a person,
00:36:56 --> 00:37:03 as well as fugitive slave laws, clauses within the Constitution that made it
00:37:03 --> 00:37:09 easy to re-enslave people who have abandoned from slavery.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:16 And finally, clauses within the Constitution allowing for the importation of
00:37:16 --> 00:37:21 enslaved Africans into our country for 20 years after the founding.
00:37:21 --> 00:37:33 In those three ways, our nation between 1776, 1789 enshrined slavery in American life.
00:37:34 --> 00:37:38 So for me as a righteous black man to be celebrating the 4th of July,
00:37:38 --> 00:37:42 given that history, that is deeply problematic.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:49 July 4th, if I'm going to center slave people,
00:37:50 --> 00:37:56 if I'm going to center their experience, it has to take the tack of a more Frederick
00:37:56 --> 00:38:01 Douglassian understanding of July 4th.
00:38:02 --> 00:38:11 And Douglass famously in July of 1857 says to America, what is the 4th of July to the slave?
00:38:12 --> 00:38:17 What is the 4th of July to the slave? That is the energy,
00:38:17 --> 00:38:21 I think, that is required in remembering
00:38:21 --> 00:38:28 the 4th of July, not freedom as something that was gained by all,
00:38:29 --> 00:38:34 but a moment where some American, American colonists gained freedom.
00:38:34 --> 00:38:41 But at the same time, thousands and ultimately millions of Black people would
00:38:41 --> 00:38:46 be enslaved because of that moment and what came after that.
00:38:47 --> 00:38:53 We have to think about the 4th of July and our relationship to it.
00:38:54 --> 00:39:01 Not a kind of general abstract sort of celebration of something that didn't
00:39:01 --> 00:39:06 really bring freedom or at least, you know, freedom in the ways that we would
00:39:06 --> 00:39:09 understand it, right, to all Americans.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:17 And so I think the 4th of July and especially America 250, given how it is being
00:39:17 --> 00:39:24 framed, is a moment where we cannot just celebrate the 4th of July as this great moment.
00:39:25 --> 00:39:29 It's a moment where the conversation about freedom,
00:39:30 --> 00:39:37 for all of its citizens began, but certainly freedom was denied in those two
00:39:37 --> 00:39:41 critical moments, 1776, 1789,
00:39:41 --> 00:39:42 to enslave people.
00:39:42 --> 00:39:50 We need to center that and remember that in addition to the founding of the American Republic.
00:39:50 --> 00:39:56 And so for me, critical memory is required, like a Douglassonian understanding
00:39:56 --> 00:40:02 is required for understanding the 4th of July because it forces us to center,
00:40:03 --> 00:40:05 the experiences of enslaved people.
00:40:05 --> 00:40:15 And in 4th of July, memorations that I have been a part of and seen within the
00:40:15 --> 00:40:18 U.S., that is never reflected upon.
00:40:19 --> 00:40:25 So to paraphrase the Apostle Paul, when I was a child, I thought as a child, right?
00:40:26 --> 00:40:30 And so for me, when I was younger, the 4th of July was a big deal.
00:40:31 --> 00:40:35 And I've always acknowledged it and celebrated.
00:40:35 --> 00:40:42 As I became older and more conscious of history and the connections and all
00:40:42 --> 00:40:49 that stuff, you know, what you say, the Douglasonian mindset kicked in.
00:40:49 --> 00:40:55 But my my reconciliation was spiritual and it just real quick because i got
00:40:55 --> 00:40:57 one more question for you but,
00:40:58 --> 00:41:03 to me it was spiritual because you know in a black church we when we see something
00:41:03 --> 00:41:10 that you know that god had a hand in we say look at god right yes and and,
00:41:10 --> 00:41:16 you know my where i get from is that Thomas Jefferson, who was a slave holder.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:23 Wrote the words and put it on paper and said that all men are created equal.
00:41:24 --> 00:41:27 And that they all have certain inalienable rights.
00:41:28 --> 00:41:35 And I said, here is a slaveholder writing the words that gave us the tool to
00:41:35 --> 00:41:42 fight for that freedom and to hold the nation that we're supposed to be celebrating accountable.
00:41:42 --> 00:41:46 That's the creed that Dr. King talked about that we have to honor.
00:41:46 --> 00:41:52 And so for me, it's a moment not only of celebrating the independence from the
00:41:52 --> 00:41:58 British Empire, But it's a it's a it's a moment of accountability.
00:41:58 --> 00:42:04 It's a reminder that we have an obligation to make sure to go back to the original
00:42:04 --> 00:42:10 quote and understand that if if I ain't free, ain't nobody else free. Right.
00:42:11 --> 00:42:16 And so that's that's the way I've looked at it as an adult and as somebody that
00:42:16 --> 00:42:23 has been in the system as an elected official and all that to get get us to that point.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:28 And, you know, Frederick Douglass couldn't have come to that conclusion that
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 I came to because slavery still existed.
00:42:32 --> 00:42:37 But for me, generations later to come forward and to, you know,
00:42:37 --> 00:42:41 to be an activist and all that, that's that's where I come from.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:45 But I definitely I wanted to pick your brain as a historian because I know you
00:42:45 --> 00:42:47 put deep thought in everything.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:52 And I just I just I just wanted to get your point.
00:42:53 --> 00:42:58 Last question. Besides the acknowledgement of holidays like Juneteenth and celebrations
00:42:58 --> 00:43:03 like Kwanzaa, what would you like to see Americans do to respect Black history and culture?
00:43:04 --> 00:43:05 Stop attacking it.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:14 Let's start with that, dear brother. Stop attacking it. Stop banning it. Stop polarizing it.
00:43:15 --> 00:43:22 Stop making it a history that Americans believe is unimportant.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:28 That would be an amazing start. Supporting Black Studies programs.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:32 Supporting diversity, equity, and inclusion.
00:43:33 --> 00:43:39 These are insufficient, but they are also very still, excuse me,
00:43:39 --> 00:43:44 very important in the current ecosystem of American corporations,
00:43:44 --> 00:43:45 American higher education.
00:43:45 --> 00:43:51 They really do create transformation in terms of what those institutions look
00:43:51 --> 00:43:57 like and what students, those institutions, how they serve those students.
00:43:57 --> 00:43:59 And having a Black Studies department,
00:44:00 --> 00:44:04 on a campus like the University of Oklahoma, very, very important.
00:44:05 --> 00:44:11 Talking about seesawing, right, a campus with 30 students that can,
00:44:11 --> 00:44:15 has the ability to take Black Studies courses and learn the history of slavery
00:44:15 --> 00:44:18 that they won't learn anywhere else.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:23 It's really, really important to making sure that people come to understand
00:44:23 --> 00:44:26 these histories in not just a deeper way, but in a way.
00:44:28 --> 00:44:32 That arose that deep indifference and that lack of compassion,
00:44:32 --> 00:44:36 not just for the enslaved, but how their descendants and how the history shows up today.
00:44:37 --> 00:44:46 I think this war on memory, this war on Black studies and the history of racialized
00:44:46 --> 00:44:52 groups in America, particularly people of color, right, that rebellion...
00:44:53 --> 00:44:56 Come to an end. We have to bring it. It's not going to come to an end.
00:44:56 --> 00:44:57 We got to bring it to an end.
00:44:58 --> 00:45:07 But that would go a long way to changing the kind of temperature that we have
00:45:07 --> 00:45:11 in relationship to these polarizing histories.
00:45:11 --> 00:45:19 Ultimately, dear brother, if I'm to get spiritual as well and at the deepest level as well,
00:45:20 --> 00:45:28 I think our country has to of a healing relationship with this path.
00:45:29 --> 00:45:35 And what I'm about to say, I think is somewhat controversial and maybe even
00:45:35 --> 00:45:39 simplistic, but I think given what I've said, it makes sense.
00:45:40 --> 00:45:45 And so I spent the last two weeks in Germany and I've done, I spent two weeks
00:45:45 --> 00:45:50 in Germany for the last five years as a part of a Berlin fellowship,
00:45:51 --> 00:45:56 that introduces American remembrance activists to the history of the Holocaust
00:45:56 --> 00:45:59 and National Socialism in Germany.
00:46:01 --> 00:46:08 The Berlin fellowship remembrance tours that we take visit sites connected to the Holocaust.
00:46:09 --> 00:46:15 And without going into detail about the Holocaust, it represents the murder
00:46:16 --> 00:46:19 of 6 million European Jews.
00:46:21 --> 00:46:25 Nazis and their national socialism.
00:46:27 --> 00:46:36 And so Germany as a state, as a national government, has memorialized and commemorated,
00:46:37 --> 00:46:41 that genocide, that attempted genocide, that holocaust, the Shoah.
00:46:42 --> 00:46:45 It has memorialized it.
00:46:46 --> 00:46:49 It wasn't an easy process, but it happened.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:59 That has helped to create tremendous healing amongst Germans who were responsible
00:46:59 --> 00:47:01 as well as their descendants.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:09 It created space to truly have conversations with Jewish people and their descendants,
00:47:10 --> 00:47:14 about what repair was needed because the country,
00:47:17 --> 00:47:23 had developed the ability to talk about the history honestly and to commemorate
00:47:23 --> 00:47:29 that history honestly. Honestly, it created the path for repair to the community that.
00:47:31 --> 00:47:35 Was most impacted by the harm.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:40 In our country, we have not come
00:47:40 --> 00:47:44 together as a nation to create a national manana, a national memorial.
00:47:45 --> 00:47:51 We have refused to do so, and in refusing to do so, we have precluded healing,
00:47:52 --> 00:47:54 from this most horrific history.
00:47:54 --> 00:48:00 United Nations, earlier this year, slavery and the slave trade,
00:48:00 --> 00:48:03 gravest crime against humanity.
00:48:04 --> 00:48:12 Gravest crime in human history, and we think we don't need to heal in relationship. to.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:22 Imagine the arrogance of not believing we don't have to heal in relationship to the most.
00:48:23 --> 00:48:28 The gravest crime against humanity in our history. The Germans did for their
00:48:28 --> 00:48:32 country, the Holocaust, and that's still a country.
00:48:33 --> 00:48:36 It's the fourth largest economy in the world. They're doing just fine.
00:48:37 --> 00:48:42 The largest economy in the world believes that it's too polarizing,
00:48:42 --> 00:48:44 that it would destroy our country somehow.
00:48:44 --> 00:48:49 The unity, the national unity, maybe the healing could bring us together.
00:48:50 --> 00:48:56 And so for me, the memorial isn't just something that needs to take place.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:01 It's a process that needs to take place.
00:49:01 --> 00:49:07 The dialogues, the discussions that were produced, the memorial is where the healing is.
00:49:07 --> 00:49:14 It's not after the fact it's during the fact and that work that we refuse to
00:49:14 --> 00:49:18 do is I think why we are stuck where we are,
00:49:19 --> 00:49:26 and why other countries and other societies that have had these kinds of you know.
00:49:28 --> 00:49:35 Regimes of violence they have not we can I never say they have healed I can
00:49:35 --> 00:49:37 only speak of a healing relationship,
00:49:38 --> 00:49:44 but I can say Germany, even with its current moment of sort of a rise of the
00:49:44 --> 00:49:49 AFD and ultra-right conservatism,
00:49:49 --> 00:49:55 even with that, because of what they've done previously, they have a healing relationship.
00:49:55 --> 00:50:01 It doesn't make it perfect, but it's a healing relationship because so much has been acknowledged.
00:50:02 --> 00:50:05 They don't have these conversations about this history is not important.
00:50:06 --> 00:50:08 Yeah, it is. We know it is.
00:50:08 --> 00:50:15 Go to the Memorial for Murdered Jews of Europe. Go to the Topography of Terror. Go to the House of Wamsi.
00:50:15 --> 00:50:21 Go to all these sites that, in one way or another, the government has funded
00:50:21 --> 00:50:22 and supported to tell that story.
00:50:23 --> 00:50:26 Germans cannot ignore this history.
00:50:27 --> 00:50:32 There may be future attacks similar to what's happening in the United States
00:50:32 --> 00:50:36 that tries to remove this, but in this moment right here, right now,
00:50:37 --> 00:50:42 those truths cannot be about national socialism and the Holocaust cannot be denied.
00:50:43 --> 00:50:44 We can't say the same in this country.
00:50:46 --> 00:50:54 And so for me, that is the profound work that happens as a process in creating a memorial.
00:50:54 --> 00:51:01 And for me, that is the only way that we begin to have that healing relationship,
00:51:01 --> 00:51:07 is a country that is necessary for us today.
00:51:08 --> 00:51:12 All right, Doc, I know you got to go, but if people want to reach out to you
00:51:12 --> 00:51:16 and follow up on what you just said or anything else, how can they do that?
00:51:17 --> 00:51:21 As I always tell you, dear brother, I'm easy to find. Please reach out to me
00:51:21 --> 00:51:24 on karloskhill.com. That's my website.
00:51:25 --> 00:51:30 If you just click on the contact button, there is a email form that you can
00:51:30 --> 00:51:33 just fill out and just connect with me that way.
00:51:33 --> 00:51:40 But I'm happy to receive, you know, phone calls, texting, whatever,
00:51:40 --> 00:51:43 because I really want to be engaged
00:51:43 --> 00:51:47 and stay engaged in conversations like we're having together today.
00:51:48 --> 00:51:51 Well, brother, again, thank you so much. You know the rules.
00:51:51 --> 00:51:55 So I'll just say, you know, I look forward to our next conversation.
00:51:55 --> 00:51:57 There will be a next conversation.
00:51:59 --> 00:52:03 So thank you dear brother always for sharing your platform with me and really
00:52:03 --> 00:52:09 truly giving me the space to talk through these really complicated,
00:52:10 --> 00:52:15 and and and really difficult histories you have provided so much space for me
00:52:15 --> 00:52:19 to to articulate things that just don't get articulated,
00:52:19 --> 00:52:25 and so I'm forever grateful for you for your for your for your show but also
00:52:25 --> 00:52:27 for your witness so thank Thank you, thank you, thank you.
00:52:27 --> 00:52:30 All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
00:52:49 --> 00:52:54 And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Justin Carter.
00:52:54 --> 00:52:58 Justin Carter is a public affairs and violence prevention leader,
00:52:58 --> 00:53:04 author, and national speaker whose work focuses on translating complex social
00:53:04 --> 00:53:08 issues into language that connects challenges and moves people toward action.
00:53:09 --> 00:53:13 He currently serves as a program manager at Futures Without Violence,
00:53:14 --> 00:53:18 where he supports organizations across the country working to prevent violence
00:53:18 --> 00:53:22 and promote safety, wellness, and accountability for children,
00:53:22 --> 00:53:24 youth, and communities.
00:53:24 --> 00:53:29 Justin is the author of the forthcoming book, Translation, From Bigotry to Justice,
00:53:30 --> 00:53:35 which explores how language, systems, and culture shape harm and healing,
00:53:35 --> 00:53:39 and how staying faithful to truth can open pathways toward justice.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:45 Drawing from lived experience, professional practice, and philosophy,
00:53:45 --> 00:53:50 his work centers on empathy, cultural fluency, masculinity, and the power of
00:53:50 --> 00:53:53 conversation to shift norms and behaviors.
00:53:54 --> 00:53:57 Whether working with national organizations, college campuses,
00:53:57 --> 00:54:03 or community leaders, Justin brings a grounded, accessible approach that blends
00:54:03 --> 00:54:05 honesty, reflection, and strategy.
00:54:06 --> 00:54:10 His work invites people to think differently about the world they live in and
00:54:10 --> 00:54:12 their role in shaping what comes next.
00:54:13 --> 00:54:17 Host note, Justin joined the podcast in his individual capacity.
00:54:18 --> 00:54:22 The views expressed are his own and do not represent futures without violence.
00:54:22 --> 00:54:26 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest,
00:54:27 --> 00:54:30 of this podcast, Justin Carter.
00:54:41 --> 00:54:44 Right. Justin Carter. How you doing, brother? You doing good?
00:54:44 --> 00:54:50 I'm doing well, Erik. How are you doing? Doing fine. This episode is going to air after Juneteenth.
00:54:51 --> 00:54:53 You got any big plans for the holiday?
00:54:54 --> 00:54:59 Yeah, I'm going to go see some family in Toledo, Ohio. So we got a nice little
00:54:59 --> 00:55:00 family reunion going on.
00:55:01 --> 00:55:05 Juneteenth celebration. I think I got some cousins in the parade.
00:55:05 --> 00:55:06 So it's going to be a good time.
00:55:06 --> 00:55:10 They got a parade in Toledo, Ohio. Boy, we moving up in a world. I know, right?
00:55:12 --> 00:55:16 They just started. I think Atlanta's going to have one. That's where I am in
00:55:16 --> 00:55:19 the Atlanta area. They're going to have one Saturday.
00:55:20 --> 00:55:26 Okay. So that should be interesting because I think it's the first one that
00:55:26 --> 00:55:31 they've done. So this whole thing is just evolving.
00:55:31 --> 00:55:34 And Toledo, Ohio, so that explains the Ohio State connection.
00:55:35 --> 00:55:38 Yes, sir. Yep. Went to Ohio State for undergrad.
00:55:39 --> 00:55:45 Yeah. Yeah. And then you ended up going to the University of Texas, which is kind of like...
00:55:46 --> 00:55:51 I don't know where your loyalties lie now. I don't know if you're an SEC guy
00:55:51 --> 00:55:54 or a Big Ten guy, you know, but we'll, you know.
00:55:54 --> 00:55:59 Yeah, I'm 100% Scarlet and Gray. The Ohio State was my dream school since I
00:55:59 --> 00:56:04 was in fifth grade, and I was able to go there. So I will forever be a Buckeye.
00:56:05 --> 00:56:11 All kudos to the Longhorns. You know, I love Texas. I love my time at Texas,
00:56:11 --> 00:56:15 but I could never not be a Buckeye. So that's how I feel about it.
00:56:15 --> 00:56:19 I understand. Well, you can't knock a school like Texas that's on Martin Luther
00:56:19 --> 00:56:21 King drive. That is true.
00:56:22 --> 00:56:25 Let me tell you something real quick. And this is, this is kind of normal for
00:56:25 --> 00:56:27 me, but I got to tell you this story because you can relate.
00:56:28 --> 00:56:33 So when I try, when I used to travel a lot, you know, if I saw a sign that said
00:56:33 --> 00:56:36 MLK drive, I said, all right, that's the hood. All right, good.
00:56:38 --> 00:56:40 If I want to get some good food or something like that, all right,
00:56:40 --> 00:56:42 that ain't right there. We need to go.
00:56:43 --> 00:56:46 Got to Austin, Texas, man. Got off of Martin Luther King. They said,
00:56:46 --> 00:56:49 well, we got to get off of Martin Luther King. Oh, we going through the hood
00:56:49 --> 00:56:50 before we get to the Capitol? Okay, cool.
00:56:51 --> 00:56:56 Because the city in Jackson, the state Capitol is in the hood.
00:56:56 --> 00:56:59 It's like it's in downtown, but it's like as soon as you look out the corner,
00:56:59 --> 00:57:01 it's like you in the hood right there.
00:57:02 --> 00:57:06 The Black History Museum is literally like two blocks away from the Capitol.
00:57:07 --> 00:57:11 So it's like, you know, we get up there and I'm like, is that the University
00:57:11 --> 00:57:14 of Texas? I said, oh, my God.
00:57:15 --> 00:57:17 You're a person who took a Martin Luther King drive. All right.
00:57:17 --> 00:57:21 I feel you, Austin. So, yeah, you can't knock the school like that.
00:57:22 --> 00:57:28 No, not at all. So what I normally like to do to start it off is I do a couple
00:57:28 --> 00:57:34 of icebreaker exercises. So the first one is a quote I want you to respond to.
00:57:34 --> 00:57:40 And the quote is, we are so much more than what has happened to us. Mm-hmm.
00:57:41 --> 00:57:45 Yeah, that's actually, I love that quote. There's another quote,
00:57:45 --> 00:57:51 too, by, actually, I'm drawing the blank on the name, but I'm not sure if you've
00:57:51 --> 00:57:54 ever been to Montgomery, Alabama, and the museum that's there,
00:57:55 --> 00:57:59 and one of their slogans, and it's on their t-shirts, I got a t-shirt, too, and it says,
00:58:00 --> 00:58:03 we are more than the worst decisions that we've ever made.
00:58:03 --> 00:58:09 And so this really resonates with me because I truly believe in radical forgiveness.
00:58:09 --> 00:58:14 I believe that we are so much more than a mistake. We are so much more than
00:58:14 --> 00:58:15 just one choice, one thing.
00:58:16 --> 00:58:18 We are so much more than.
00:58:21 --> 00:58:25 Just being singled out to just one single aspect of our lives.
00:58:25 --> 00:58:30 And so I feel like if we could adopt that across the country or even globally,
00:58:30 --> 00:58:33 it could change a lot of systems that we see now.
00:58:34 --> 00:58:39 And a lot of opportunities that people who have lost them for years and years,
00:58:39 --> 00:58:41 could get back one day. That is my hope anyway.
00:58:42 --> 00:58:46 Yeah, yeah, that's good positive thinking, brother.
00:58:48 --> 00:58:51 I wish there were some people in my life that had radical forgiveness,
00:58:51 --> 00:58:55 but that's a whole nother podcast, a whole nother day.
00:58:55 --> 00:58:58 The next exercise is what I call 20 questions.
00:58:59 --> 00:59:06 So I need you to give me a number between one and 20. Okay, let's go with 18. All righty.
00:59:08 --> 00:59:14 What's one thing we might all agree is important, no matter our differences? Hmm.
00:59:15 --> 00:59:21 I think, man, I've been thinking a lot on this because I've been writing some of this stuff in my book.
00:59:21 --> 00:59:28 But I think everyone would agree that we all deserve dignity and humanity.
00:59:30 --> 00:59:34 No matter who you are. Okay. Yeah. That, that seems pretty basic.
00:59:36 --> 00:59:39 No, I'm serious. I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to minimize it.
00:59:39 --> 00:59:44 It's just, you know, it just makes sense. You know, it was like, I'm, I'm getting ready.
00:59:44 --> 00:59:48 I'm on my vacation time. And so when, you know, when I do that,
00:59:48 --> 00:59:50 I try to catch up on documentaries.
00:59:50 --> 00:59:56 And so dignity and humanity is a big part of the Thomas Jefferson story,
00:59:56 --> 01:00:01 especially as he was drafting the declaration of independence and this was one
01:00:01 --> 01:00:06 of the few documentaries that really got into the meat about his original draft
01:00:06 --> 01:00:08 as opposed to what we all know now,
01:00:09 --> 01:00:14 you know when he was trying to you know the paragraph he had about slavery and
01:00:14 --> 01:00:21 they took it out for political reasons and you know it was just just the way that he wrote that,
01:00:22 --> 01:00:25 you kind of forgot that he was a slave holder you know what i'm saying yeah
01:00:25 --> 01:00:30 because he was he was he was really talking about how we just took these people
01:00:30 --> 01:00:35 from africa and you forced he was blaming king george for slavery in america.
01:00:37 --> 01:00:40 And you know but i mean he was just the passion he wrote with it it was just
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 kind of like you know so people were kind of like okay you know but yeah the
01:00:45 --> 01:00:47 dignity and humanity you could tell.
01:00:48 --> 01:00:53 He was addressing in that piece, even though he didn't live that lifestyle.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:58 What is Futures Without Violence, the organization that you work with?
01:00:58 --> 01:01:04 Yeah, so Futures Without Violence is a national organization, national nonprofit.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:08 Well, really, I would even honestly say global because there's a work that we
01:01:08 --> 01:01:13 do across the seas as well that's really focused on providing safety,
01:01:13 --> 01:01:17 healing for communities across everywhere, honestly.
01:01:17 --> 01:01:24 We got our start in domestic violence and serving survivors of those situations,
01:01:24 --> 01:01:26 but expanded understanding that,
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30 violence is connected through so many different avenues in so many ways.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:33 And so we have to start focusing on violence.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:38 Different aspects of violence as it relates to domestic violence, right?
01:01:38 --> 01:01:43 And that can be a part of family violence. It could be potentially gun violence.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:48 It could be gang violence. It could be all these different forms of violences that we,
01:01:49 --> 01:01:55 I would say, continue to strive to eliminate in our world, to
01:01:55 --> 01:02:00 really create safety and security for all families, including children who,
01:02:00 --> 01:02:04 which my specific team is a part of, our children and youth team.
01:02:05 --> 01:02:11 Okay. So how did your path lead you to work for Futures?
01:02:12 --> 01:02:16 Yeah. So I've had a long, long journey in this work.
01:02:17 --> 01:02:22 So I actually started this work when I was 19 years old when I was looking for,
01:02:22 --> 01:02:27 an internship just to see what it is that I wanted to do in the world.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:31 I started wanting to do focus on anxiety and depression.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:36 And so I did that. I was in a psychology major.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:43 And I actually had a cousin whose best friend was working at this organization
01:02:43 --> 01:02:45 called the Ohio Domestic Violence Network.
01:02:45 --> 01:02:49 And so she talked to her and I then talked to her friend and was like,
01:02:49 --> 01:02:54 hey, looking for an internship. Is there a way they can get me in, see what can happen?
01:02:55 --> 01:02:59 And so she said, OK, let's start bringing you on board. And so I talked to her
01:02:59 --> 01:03:01 and I talked to her supervisor, talked to the staff.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:06 And then ultimately, it was thought that I didn't have enough experience and
01:03:06 --> 01:03:10 I just wasn't ready to be in that line of work, so to speak,
01:03:11 --> 01:03:16 which I think is interesting, just knowing that internships is meant for you to learn things.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:21 But I digress on that. But anyway, I'm a Virgo through and through.
01:03:21 --> 01:03:24 And so if you tell me I couldn't do something, then I'm going to do everything
01:03:24 --> 01:03:26 I can to make sure I can do it.
01:03:27 --> 01:03:32 So what that meant was I took every single training that there was possible on their website.
01:03:32 --> 01:03:39 I was at every training, and I learned so much as it relates to not only domestic
01:03:39 --> 01:03:41 violence, but just violence in general.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:46 And it really opened my eyes to a lot of different situations,
01:03:46 --> 01:03:49 scenarios, just things that are going out in the world.
01:03:50 --> 01:03:53 It really made me get really interested into the work.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:58 And so a year or a year or so later, I met this guy whose name is Tony Porter.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:03 He's pretty influential in the field about men against violence.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:08 And he really took me under his wing and said, hey, like, have you ever thought
01:04:08 --> 01:04:11 about this thing called men and masculinity? Have you ever thought about this
01:04:11 --> 01:04:13 thing called men against violence?
01:04:13 --> 01:04:16 And, you know, me, I was like, I don't know what that means.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:21 So as he was able to like really opened my mind and explored.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:23 He got me to more trainings, more conferences.
01:04:24 --> 01:04:29 I then found my passion and what I wanted to do. And what I've come to know
01:04:29 --> 01:04:31 now is just ending violence in general.
01:04:31 --> 01:04:37 But at the time, and even still, it's really about being my true authentic self
01:04:37 --> 01:04:40 and how do I promote that authenticity through the work that I do.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:47 And so I ended up reapplying to be an intern at the Ohio Domestic Violence Network.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:51 But instead of hiring me as an intern, they ended up hiring me as staff.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:56 And so I became a staff member with them as their engaging men coordinator.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:00 And I was doing men's against violence work during that time.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:02 And then it was time for me to move to.
01:05:03 --> 01:05:07 Texas because I was just ready to get out of Ohio. I felt like the work that
01:05:07 --> 01:05:10 I had done in Ohio was really, really great.
01:05:10 --> 01:05:15 I really soared in that career in that small bit of time that I was there working
01:05:15 --> 01:05:19 with universities all across the country, parts of the country,
01:05:19 --> 01:05:22 yes, but also in all parts of Ohio.
01:05:22 --> 01:05:26 And so it put me on a stage of, okay, Justin knows what he's talking about.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:28 Like there's a voice for him.
01:05:29 --> 01:05:34 And so I decided that it was time for me to go. I got my master's degree from
01:05:34 --> 01:05:36 the University of Texas at Austin.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:43 But at the time, I was there doing suicide prevention and working for our crisis
01:05:43 --> 01:05:46 response, which student emergency services, as we were calling it.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:51 So I was doing a lot of that work while also being in grad school.
01:05:51 --> 01:05:54 But and on the side, But I was also a consultant as well.
01:05:55 --> 01:06:00 So I never left the men's engagement space. I never left the violence prevention
01:06:00 --> 01:06:02 space. I was just doing it on the side as a consultant.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:08 And that leads me to how I met Futures. I actually met a couple of them because
01:06:08 --> 01:06:11 they were hosting something in Montgomery, Alabama, actually.
01:06:12 --> 01:06:17 They were hosting a like kind of like a meetup for different practitioners and
01:06:17 --> 01:06:18 folks around the country.
01:06:18 --> 01:06:22 And I was able to meet them there. And they were just telling me about Futures.
01:06:22 --> 01:06:25 And I had known about futures in so many different ways, but not.
01:06:26 --> 01:06:30 Not directly. I had never spoken to anybody directly. And so once I learned
01:06:30 --> 01:06:33 about them and they were like, hey, like, you know, this thing is coming up.
01:06:33 --> 01:06:36 We'd love to see you more this, that, and the third.
01:06:36 --> 01:06:41 And so as, after I graduated with my master's degree in public policy,
01:06:41 --> 01:06:43 I ended up moving to Washington, DC.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:49 And so I was here in DC for a while being a consultant and I just so happened
01:06:49 --> 01:06:51 to see that Futures was hiring.
01:06:51 --> 01:06:56 And I was like, wait a minute, This is that same organization that I met when I was in Montgomery.
01:06:56 --> 01:07:00 And so I sent an application in and of course they remembered me and they were
01:07:00 --> 01:07:04 like, oh my goodness, yes, like come, let's talk this, that,
01:07:04 --> 01:07:07 and the third. And eventually I ended up getting hired there.
01:07:07 --> 01:07:09 So they brought me on as a program manager.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:15 I mean, now I do a whole lot of stuff, what it feels like, but it's just amazing
01:07:15 --> 01:07:19 how connection just comes full circle because I never would have met them had
01:07:19 --> 01:07:24 I not continued to do my consulting, continuing networking out in the field.
01:07:24 --> 01:07:29 And the way that I got to that initial meeting is I knew somebody who knew somebody
01:07:29 --> 01:07:33 who knew me and said, hey, I think you should invite Justin to this.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:34 And that's how I was able to go.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:38 And that's how I was able to meet futures. So, and then two years later,
01:07:38 --> 01:07:40 here I am connected with them working on their staff.
01:07:40 --> 01:07:45 So yeah, that was, that is my long, long journey of how I was able to get to
01:07:45 --> 01:07:49 futures, but still in the field, there's so many folks that are connected and
01:07:49 --> 01:07:55 I'm glad that I continued to do the work and folks still recognize who I was in my voice.
01:07:55 --> 01:08:00 Yeah, see, so there are a couple of valuable lessons in that story.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:03 One is never doubt yourself.
01:08:04 --> 01:08:08 Go forward. And if you believe that you can do something, don't be afraid to.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:11 Take a chance. Get out there and do it.
01:08:11 --> 01:08:15 Then the other thing is network with people, right?
01:08:16 --> 01:08:20 Just get out and make yourself known to folks. And, you know,
01:08:21 --> 01:08:25 I come from a political background, So you would think that's automatically
01:08:25 --> 01:08:28 natural, but there are a lot of folks, man, that don't get it.
01:08:28 --> 01:08:32 They just run for office and it's like, who are you? And yeah,
01:08:33 --> 01:08:36 we don't. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's like, at least somebody just
01:08:36 --> 01:08:40 say, oh, I saw you on TV. Oh, I remember you were at, you spoke at my church
01:08:40 --> 01:08:42 or something like that. At least do something. You know what I'm saying?
01:08:43 --> 01:08:49 So, yeah, those are especially younger folks. So you pay attention to that. Yeah.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:53 Opportunity is everything for sure. Yeah, yeah.
01:08:53 --> 01:09:00 So let me ask you this question, because would you consider yourself Gen Z or a millennial?
01:09:02 --> 01:09:07 I think technically I'm a millennial. I would definitely identify as a millennial.
01:09:07 --> 01:09:11 And my birthday is like right after right at the cutoff for millennial.
01:09:12 --> 01:09:16 But a lot of my friends and the folks that I hung out with are our older millennials.
01:09:16 --> 01:09:18 So that's that's what I would say.
01:09:18 --> 01:09:22 I don't identify as much as Gen Z. I don't even, I don't really be on TikTok like that.
01:09:23 --> 01:09:28 I just, I'm the, I'm not quite on Facebook where I see the stuff that came from
01:09:28 --> 01:09:32 Instagram that came from TikTok. I'm like, I'm on Instagram where the stuff
01:09:32 --> 01:09:36 from TikTok came to Instagram. So that's, that's where I'm at right now.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:37 So definitely a millennial.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:43 Well, I feel you because I'm, I'm, I'm like in the older generation of Gen X.
01:09:44 --> 01:09:48 I mean, I'm right on the line with Baby Boomer. so you know it's kind of like,
01:09:49 --> 01:09:54 you know i i feel you on the on the on the identity thing but based on my life
01:09:54 --> 01:09:57 experience i was definitely a gen x kid.
01:09:58 --> 01:10:03 So the reason why i asked that because i had on the last episode a millennial
01:10:03 --> 01:10:04 sister that's based here in atlanta,
01:10:05 --> 01:10:11 and i asked her the question what is the most important issue that your generation,
01:10:12 --> 01:10:16 is facing that you want leaders to address. So I'll pose that to you.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:25 Yeah, I think at this time, there's just such a divide within our nation and
01:10:25 --> 01:10:32 within, I think, globally, too. But there's just a divide as it relates to, one, communication.
01:10:32 --> 01:10:34 Another thing is misinformation.
01:10:34 --> 01:10:38 And the last thing I would say is truth and trust, right?
01:10:38 --> 01:10:42 Like, I think that if we are going to have leaders who are going to take us
01:10:42 --> 01:10:46 to a direction that's going to move all of us forward for our benefit,
01:10:47 --> 01:10:49 it, then they need to be honest with us.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:53 They need to be truthful about what the situation is, what they can and cannot do.
01:10:54 --> 01:10:57 And then lastly, understand that they're going to have to,
01:10:57 --> 01:11:02 combat misinformation because that is everything that I feel like we're battling
01:11:02 --> 01:11:07 in this world, especially on social media, is just how much misinformation is
01:11:07 --> 01:11:11 out there and how it feels like nowadays that people just take
01:11:12 --> 01:11:15 truth as just their opinion about something.
01:11:15 --> 01:11:18 And there's no like real truth in the world everything is just like what you
01:11:18 --> 01:11:23 think about it you know and to me that's not the reality of the world that we
01:11:23 --> 01:11:26 live in and our leaders have to understand that,
01:11:26 --> 01:11:32 they have to be bounded by some type of universal truth that is a part of yeah
01:11:32 --> 01:11:37 that is a part of our world so yeah i would say leave with that okay,
01:11:38 --> 01:11:41 do you find in this current.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:49 Era or moment in time that we're in, do you find it a challenge to your work,
01:11:49 --> 01:11:53 or as an opportunity for your work? Hmm.
01:11:54 --> 01:12:00 It depends on what work you're talking about. Honestly, I think it's yes and,
01:12:00 --> 01:12:04 or I'll say this, two things can be true at the same time, right?
01:12:04 --> 01:12:10 Like it is absolutely a hindrance, the times that we are on and the work that I do,
01:12:10 --> 01:12:15 just with the amount of censorship that is coming from the administration,
01:12:15 --> 01:12:20 but also just the public in general about how folks feel about things,
01:12:21 --> 01:12:23 the denying of humanity of people.
01:12:23 --> 01:12:27 And we've seen that time and time again, especially recently.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:32 And that is absolutely the work that I do is to give folks humanities,
01:12:32 --> 01:12:35 to show the world that people have their own humanity and dignity.
01:12:36 --> 01:12:39 And you have an opposing side who wants to take that completely away.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:41 So that's 100% challenging.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:48 Funding is challenging as well, right? Like it's, I think nonprofits,
01:12:48 --> 01:12:50 it's hard to be in a space where you get
01:12:51 --> 01:12:56 a lot of federal dollars or a lot of funding from folks who get to tell you
01:12:56 --> 01:12:57 what to do with the money, right?
01:12:57 --> 01:13:01 Even though you are the expert on how do you make a better world.
01:13:02 --> 01:13:05 That's challenging because everybody's priorities change, it seems.
01:13:06 --> 01:13:09 And so every four years, there's a new administration that has different priorities,
01:13:10 --> 01:13:14 which changes so many different things on what gets funded and what doesn't
01:13:14 --> 01:13:18 get funded, right? So I would definitely say it's a hindrance in that aspect.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:22 Although there is a benefit at the same time. Right.
01:13:22 --> 01:13:28 So I think one of the things that we've done so much in our field and the field
01:13:28 --> 01:13:30 I mean is violence prevention field,
01:13:30 --> 01:13:36 is the fact that we have all this academic jargon, all these words that we talk
01:13:36 --> 01:13:39 about, all these things that we need to have.
01:13:40 --> 01:13:42 All these different committees for this, for that, for this.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:47 And it's like, how do we make our languages plain and simple for somebody to understand? Right.
01:13:48 --> 01:13:52 How do I if I know somebody's value is safety, how do I make sure that I can
01:13:52 --> 01:13:57 tell them about how my program is going to make you safe rather than telling
01:13:57 --> 01:14:02 you about all this extra public health knowledge of how this works and how that works?
01:14:02 --> 01:14:07 Which is important, right? It frames the work that we do and absolutely is needed,
01:14:07 --> 01:14:12 but it's not necessary to have a conversation with someone who's on the ground, who wants to start.
01:14:13 --> 01:14:16 A community clothing drive because they know there's a couple of families in
01:14:16 --> 01:14:19 the community that don't have clothes for school, right?
01:14:19 --> 01:14:22 We don't need all that information to help them with the clothing drive.
01:14:23 --> 01:14:30 And so I think this is a time more than ever when it relates to censorship to translate our language
01:14:30 --> 01:14:35 and to actually say what we mean when we're talking about diversity,
01:14:35 --> 01:14:39 inclusion and all the words that aren't necessarily great words,
01:14:39 --> 01:14:41 quote unquote, by certain actors.
01:14:41 --> 01:14:45 Right. Well, how do we talk about what we act, what those words actually mean
01:14:46 --> 01:14:50 and do the thing that those words are actually meaning without just saying,
01:14:50 --> 01:14:53 hey, we have a diversity statement because we believe in all this. Right.
01:14:53 --> 01:14:57 Like it's so much more than just a diversity statement, so much more than just
01:14:57 --> 01:15:03 these checkboxes that everybody seems to have nowadays because it's being targeted
01:15:03 --> 01:15:05 and eliminated by certain actors.
01:15:05 --> 01:15:08 So, and, you know, use your imagination of who those actors are,
01:15:09 --> 01:15:12 who are paying attention to these certain,
01:15:13 --> 01:15:19 words and actions that, or I'd say words and phrases and different quote-unquote
01:15:19 --> 01:15:24 ideologies that folks are having as it relates to justice or social justice
01:15:24 --> 01:15:26 and things like that. Yeah.
01:15:26 --> 01:15:34 I think, you know, I use an analogy a lot about a person that runs hurdles, right?
01:15:35 --> 01:15:42 It's like, you see them, you know that you've got to go over these hurdles to get to that finish line.
01:15:42 --> 01:15:49 And, you know, it's like you, you see, that's a challenge, but at the same time,
01:15:49 --> 01:15:54 you've got an opportunity to be the best hurdler at that particular moment.
01:15:54 --> 01:16:01 And the key is to, to execute your plan and, and do what you got to do to get over it.
01:16:01 --> 01:16:07 And I, I just think, you know, So it just makes sense, you know,
01:16:07 --> 01:16:10 where people that are successful,
01:16:10 --> 01:16:15 you know, understand the challenges out there, but they always look at it as
01:16:15 --> 01:16:18 an opportunity to showcase and do what you do.
01:16:19 --> 01:16:25 And so, yeah, so I definitely relate to what you were saying on that.
01:16:25 --> 01:16:32 What shapes harm and healing more language systems or culture? Hmm.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:39 Said harm or healing? Harm and healing. Oh, harm and healing. What shapes it more?
01:16:40 --> 01:16:46 So here's the thing. I think, I don't know, I might be the worst person you
01:16:46 --> 01:16:49 interview because I'm going to say yes and all the time.
01:16:50 --> 01:16:55 I'm going to say yes and I'm going to say two things can be true because that's what I believe.
01:16:56 --> 01:16:59 I think that language shapes our culture.
01:17:00 --> 01:17:06 So the language that we use creates a reality, and that becomes our culture that we live in, right?
01:17:06 --> 01:17:12 And so, for example, if we live in a culture where we use the language,
01:17:12 --> 01:17:17 well, we do live in a culture where we use just language that promotes violence
01:17:17 --> 01:17:19 or just violent language in general.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:22 Just sit and think about how many times you've heard the words,
01:17:22 --> 01:17:28 go break a leg, or they threw me under the bus, or you're kicking me in the head with this, right?
01:17:28 --> 01:17:33 So, if we're using these terms and these words, then if we see it on TV,
01:17:34 --> 01:17:39 then it becomes less sensitized, right? Because we're already using it in our language.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:44 And then eventually, if we see it in real life or if we hear about something
01:17:44 --> 01:17:49 that is being impacted by violence in so many ways, again, it's less sensitized
01:17:49 --> 01:17:51 to us because we're still using it in our language.
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54 It's the same thing when we talk about mental health, right?
01:17:54 --> 01:17:57 If we talk about suicide, I did suicide prevention for a long time.
01:17:58 --> 01:18:02 And we are using the phrases like if something, let's say we get a bad grade
01:18:02 --> 01:18:04 on the test and it sucks, right?
01:18:05 --> 01:18:08 Listen, I have some bad grades on some tests and they suck.
01:18:08 --> 01:18:13 But in the culture or folks language that they use is, oh, my goodness,
01:18:13 --> 01:18:17 I got to be on this test. I'm going to off myself or I got to this professor's
01:18:17 --> 01:18:21 isn't talking to me. I'm just going to drink some bleach. I would say would drink bleach. Right.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:25 Right. Like those types of things, although we might think it as joking,
01:18:25 --> 01:18:30 it's serious because that becomes the culture where we're desensitized to things
01:18:30 --> 01:18:33 like actual folks who might be facing suicide. Right.
01:18:34 --> 01:18:38 If somebody says if somebody says I'm going to off myself at every little inconvenience
01:18:38 --> 01:18:43 that they encounter, then how do we know that when something is really,
01:18:43 --> 01:18:47 really serious that they encounter in their lives and they do.
01:18:47 --> 01:18:50 Or they are considering suicide?
01:18:50 --> 01:18:54 Side, how do we know what is the serious thing, right? And how does our culture
01:18:54 --> 01:18:59 know that we need to protect or support this person if we have a culture that
01:18:59 --> 01:19:02 just says, yeah, we say this all the time.
01:19:02 --> 01:19:05 We don't know who's actually in trouble. We don't know who's actually in trouble.
01:19:05 --> 01:19:09 So our language is really shaping the culture that we live in.
01:19:10 --> 01:19:15 And it's unfortunate because in that aspect, it's shaping this culture of non-support.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:19 And as much as everybody talks about mental health and you need to take care
01:19:19 --> 01:19:21 of your mental health, you need to do this, you need to do that.
01:19:22 --> 01:19:25 We're not paying attention to the language that we are actually using as it
01:19:25 --> 01:19:29 relates to things that are as serious as diagnosed depression,
01:19:29 --> 01:19:33 diagnosed anxiety disorder, diagnosed ADHD, right?
01:19:33 --> 01:19:37 There's all these different mental health issues that folks are just using casually
01:19:37 --> 01:19:41 in our language that, you know, it's hard to know if you're feeling sad or if
01:19:41 --> 01:19:43 you're actually depressed, right?
01:19:43 --> 01:19:46 We don't know because our culture says that all of that is the same.
01:19:47 --> 01:19:52 So that is how it shapes. Language is definitely the starter,
01:19:52 --> 01:19:55 and then it creates the reality that we live in.
01:19:56 --> 01:20:00 Yeah, yeah. And trust me, you're not the worst interviewer.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:06 You're making a lot of sense. And so I greatly appreciate it.
01:20:08 --> 01:20:11 All right. So how do you activate courage?
01:20:13 --> 01:20:19 Yeah. So courage is, man, there is a philosopher who talks about.
01:20:20 --> 01:20:23 Oh, Lord, I'm drawing the blank on their name.
01:20:23 --> 01:20:28 But there's a philosopher who basically talks about the action that is two halves
01:20:28 --> 01:20:30 or that's in the middle of two extremes. Right.
01:20:31 --> 01:20:37 So let's say doing something reckless or doing something, doing something.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:40 How do you say, doing something safe or not doing something at all,
01:20:41 --> 01:20:42 courage is in the middle of that, right?
01:20:43 --> 01:20:49 That's how you should think about it, is you, the way to activate courage is
01:20:49 --> 01:20:54 to number one, know that you want to do the right thing about something or something
01:20:54 --> 01:20:55 deserves to have the right thing.
01:20:56 --> 01:21:00 I think all of us have a responsibility to make sure that the reality in the
01:21:00 --> 01:21:04 world that we all live in is safe and kind and loving for everybody else.
01:21:04 --> 01:21:09 And so it takes courage to stand up to things that don't promote those things, right?
01:21:10 --> 01:21:14 And so courage is the reason why I was talking about that philosopher with courage
01:21:14 --> 01:21:18 being in the middle of those two extremes, because sometimes in order to have
01:21:18 --> 01:21:22 your courage, it causes you to be a real reckless, right?
01:21:22 --> 01:21:26 It causes you to be reckless with your relationship if you have to stand up
01:21:26 --> 01:21:30 or speak out against something against a superior, right?
01:21:30 --> 01:21:34 If you know, if a superior made a comment that might sound racist or might sound
01:21:34 --> 01:21:39 sexist or might sound whatever it is, it's reckless in a sense of you're speaking
01:21:39 --> 01:21:43 up at the time because you don't know what your superior is going to say to you.
01:21:44 --> 01:21:48 But it's also being safe in the moment because you're also protecting other
01:21:48 --> 01:21:51 people who might be in the room that might be affected by those things.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:56 So you're handling your courage and you're saying, hey, I'm going to stand up
01:21:56 --> 01:22:00 to this because this isn't promoting human dignity. This isn't promoting love,
01:22:00 --> 01:22:02 safety, and community. Right.
01:22:03 --> 01:22:07 The reality or the world that I want to live in. So that's how I would say you would activate it.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:12 Anytime you see those things being denied, it needs to be, it needs to be pushed forward.
01:22:13 --> 01:22:21 Yeah. All right. So you, you, you have this book or you're working on a book
01:22:21 --> 01:22:25 called Translation from Bigotry to Justice, right?
01:22:25 --> 01:22:27 Yes. When is that coming out?
01:22:29 --> 01:22:31 Fingers crossed this year.
01:22:33 --> 01:22:35 I actually just had a meeting with my editor not too long ago,
01:22:36 --> 01:22:40 and she's drafting the final manuscript of the edits.
01:22:40 --> 01:22:45 So I have some time between now and I guess a month now for a whole month,
01:22:45 --> 01:22:49 I would say, to like really put it in a place where it's ready to be published.
01:22:49 --> 01:22:55 And so I'm hoping by before the end of this year, I would I would love in an
01:22:55 --> 01:22:57 ideal world that would be published by my birthday, September 7th.
01:22:58 --> 01:23:02 There'd be a big birthday present to me. I'm I will be turning 30 that day.
01:23:02 --> 01:23:06 So it would be a great like this is what we did at 30, you know,
01:23:06 --> 01:23:10 so hopefully that comes out then. So it's it's written. It's being edited and
01:23:10 --> 01:23:12 it's almost ready to be published.
01:23:12 --> 01:23:17 Yeah, that'd be cool to be a New York Times bestseller at 30. Like, hey, wouldn't it?
01:23:19 --> 01:23:21 You know, this is what I did at 30. What you do. Right.
01:23:23 --> 01:23:27 So give me a summary as what this book is about.
01:23:28 --> 01:23:35 Yes. So this book is all about how do we how do we carry truth across difference?
01:23:35 --> 01:23:41 And so it's the understanding that everybody carries their own truth and that
01:23:41 --> 01:23:43 there is a universal truth in this world.
01:23:44 --> 01:23:48 And we have to recognize a universal truth to have a conversation with each
01:23:48 --> 01:23:52 other to get our truths across from each other.
01:23:52 --> 01:23:58 So I know that is a little confusing, but basically the idea is how do we lose our language to,
01:23:59 --> 01:24:03 talk and communicate and connect with each other that might have different ideas
01:24:03 --> 01:24:08 or different thoughts or different opinions while also speaking what we mean, right?
01:24:08 --> 01:24:14 And carrying our truth to somebody that, yeah, that they can use and shape their
01:24:14 --> 01:24:18 world and their reality so we can ultimately benefit our society because we're
01:24:18 --> 01:24:22 talking to each other rather than talking past each other. Yeah.
01:24:22 --> 01:24:26 So that that plays into my rule. I could go ahead and say it now.
01:24:26 --> 01:24:30 So once you've been on this show, you have an open invitation to come back.
01:24:30 --> 01:24:34 OK, so, you know, that's a perfect issue. Hey, the book's out.
01:24:35 --> 01:24:38 I need to I need a platform. So, yeah, if you knew that, just reach out to me.
01:24:38 --> 01:24:39 We'll make that happen, brother.
01:24:40 --> 01:24:45 You say that. So how can people reach out to you?
01:24:46 --> 01:24:50 How can people reach out to Futures? Because Futures is a nonprofit.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:54 So y'all need some money.
01:24:55 --> 01:24:59 How can people get in contact with you or Futures?
01:25:00 --> 01:25:05 Yeah, so they can go. So as it relates to Futures, it's Futures Without Violence.
01:25:05 --> 01:25:10 So they can go directly to the website and see all the amazing things that we do there.
01:25:10 --> 01:25:14 There's a lot of different services that we give across the country and as well
01:25:14 --> 01:25:18 as globally as well. So if folks wanted to have questions or need a support
01:25:18 --> 01:25:21 on whatever program or project that they might be working on,
01:25:21 --> 01:25:25 Futures is definitely there to support whatever that project might be.
01:25:25 --> 01:25:31 Well, Justin Carter, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast and talk.
01:25:32 --> 01:25:38 You know, the one cool thing about this platform, it gives me the opportunity to lift people up.
01:25:39 --> 01:25:44 You may not be a national household name now, but you will be as long as you
01:25:44 --> 01:25:48 keep down the path and keep doing what you're doing, especially if this book
01:25:48 --> 01:25:50 is as successful as I think it will be.
01:25:51 --> 01:25:56 You know, but I just I just I really and I'll say this is just a personal moment.
01:25:57 --> 01:26:04 I think that, you know, it's very important for people like me to show love
01:26:04 --> 01:26:06 and support to young folks.
01:26:07 --> 01:26:10 And to try to, especially in our
01:26:10 --> 01:26:14 community, to try to lift them up and to highlight them as much as I can.
01:26:15 --> 01:26:20 Absolutely. So, like I said, it was an honor for me that you accepted the invitation
01:26:20 --> 01:26:22 to give me the opportunity to do that.
01:26:22 --> 01:26:27 And I wish you much continued success, not only in the work that you're doing,
01:26:28 --> 01:26:31 but on some of the projects that you're working on on the side.
01:26:31 --> 01:26:34 Because, you know, we Black folks, we got to always have something on the side.
01:26:34 --> 01:26:39 You know, yeah, we got to have a side hustle, no matter what.
01:26:40 --> 01:26:43 Yeah, but thank you again for coming on. I appreciate it, brother.
01:26:44 --> 01:26:48 Yeah, thank you, Erik, for the opportunity for coming on and allow me to use
01:26:48 --> 01:26:52 your platform to just talk about the work that's going on, but also to hopefully
01:26:53 --> 01:26:58 inspire some change in our world as well, because I'm always for that, too.
01:26:58 --> 01:27:01 Yeah. All right, guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:27:14 --> 01:27:19 All right. And we are back. And so now I want to thank Dr.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:22 Karlos K. Hill for giving that
01:27:22 --> 01:27:30 insightful, thoughtful history about Juneteenth and the importance of.
01:27:31 --> 01:27:36 You know, celebrating our culture and remembering our history.
01:27:36 --> 01:27:40 As always, he's become a regular contributor to the podcast,
01:27:40 --> 01:27:42 and I greatly, greatly appreciate that.
01:27:43 --> 01:27:48 You know, he's a very, very scholarly, deep brother.
01:27:49 --> 01:27:56 And ever since, you know, our first interview together, he's really been supportive
01:27:56 --> 01:28:02 of the podcast and seems like he enjoys our conversation.
01:28:02 --> 01:28:07 So we're definitely going to keep that going. So, Dr. Hill, thank you so much
01:28:07 --> 01:28:10 for always taking time to do this.
01:28:11 --> 01:28:15 And then Justin Carter, that's a young brother y'all going to be seeing down
01:28:15 --> 01:28:20 the road, you know, because not everybody that is, quote unquote,
01:28:20 --> 01:28:24 up and coming is just going to jump out there and run for office. Right.
01:28:24 --> 01:28:29 But, you know, we've got a lot of up and coming activists.
01:28:30 --> 01:28:37 And so been very fortunate the last couple of episodes to be able to highlight,
01:28:37 --> 01:28:44 some young people that's doing some good work and I anticipate we're doing a.
01:28:45 --> 01:28:47 Lot more great work.
01:28:47 --> 01:28:53 And as a matter of fact, we're going to try to see that once his book comes
01:28:53 --> 01:28:57 out that we'll get him back on to talk more about the book.
01:28:57 --> 01:29:01 But I hope that you enjoyed those interviews with them.
01:29:02 --> 01:29:08 All right. So let's get into my thoughts, my rant for this week.
01:29:09 --> 01:29:13 And as always, I say, I'm trying not to be long with it, but there's some things
01:29:13 --> 01:29:15 I need to get off my chest.
01:29:16 --> 01:29:21 One is a good thing. The first one, we've got some more black folks nominated
01:29:21 --> 01:29:24 to, well, one of them is nominated.
01:29:25 --> 01:29:29 The other one's in a runoff for the United States Senate as somebody that had
01:29:29 --> 01:29:33 the distinction of being a nominee for the United States Senate.
01:29:34 --> 01:29:46 I just think, you know, that's a spot of distinction in government that I would love to see.
01:29:46 --> 01:29:52 We've managed to get a lot of African Americans in the House of Representatives,
01:29:53 --> 01:29:56 but it's few and far between that we get in the United States Senate.
01:29:56 --> 01:29:59 It's always below that 12% threshold.
01:30:00 --> 01:30:04 So anytime I see black folks running for the United States Senate,
01:30:04 --> 01:30:06 I get excited and I'm hopeful.
01:30:07 --> 01:30:12 So the young man that's running in Alabama is Everett Wess.
01:30:13 --> 01:30:20 He's an attorney in Alabama, and he secured a Democratic nomination last week.
01:30:20 --> 01:30:27 And there's a young sister in Oklahoma who is in the runoff.
01:30:27 --> 01:30:32 But she was, and she was the leading vote getter going into the runoff.
01:30:32 --> 01:30:34 Her name is N'kiyla Thomas.
01:30:35 --> 01:30:42 And so whenever that, I didn't get a chance to check and see when the runoff is going to be.
01:30:42 --> 01:30:47 I would assume it's going to be pretty close considering, you know.
01:30:48 --> 01:30:51 We're only about, I think five months away from the general.
01:30:51 --> 01:30:56 So it's probably going to be in July or August, no later than August.
01:30:56 --> 01:30:59 So congratulations, Ms. Thomas,
01:30:59 --> 01:31:04 on at least getting to the runoff and hopefully you can finish it on out,
01:31:05 --> 01:31:10 because we had some people as a young lady that a lot of you know,
01:31:10 --> 01:31:13 she was one of the TV judges, Judge Penny.
01:31:14 --> 01:31:21 Her full name is Penny Byron Reynolds and Judge Penny officially got the nomination
01:31:21 --> 01:31:24 to run for Secretary of State here in the state of Georgia.
01:31:24 --> 01:31:29 So I want to congratulate her on that. And then there was a couple of episodes
01:31:29 --> 01:31:33 ago, I was highlighting people that had been on the show that was running for
01:31:33 --> 01:31:35 office. And there was one glaring omission.
01:31:37 --> 01:31:42 Prince George, I think that's right, Prince George County Commissioner Walla
01:31:42 --> 01:31:45 Blagay, she is running for Congress.
01:31:46 --> 01:31:50 And I failed to mention that when I was highlighting people that had been on
01:31:50 --> 01:31:53 the show that's running for something this cycle.
01:31:54 --> 01:31:58 And so I wanted to give her her flowers and wish her well.
01:31:59 --> 01:32:02 I don't think Maryland's had their primary yet. I got to double check to make
01:32:02 --> 01:32:04 sure because D.C. just had theirs.
01:32:05 --> 01:32:10 So, you know, whether you were still running or not, I just wanted to acknowledge
01:32:10 --> 01:32:13 the fact that you stepped out there to run for Congress.
01:32:14 --> 01:32:19 So it's pretty cool that I've got guests that are out there, you know.
01:32:20 --> 01:32:24 Having the honor of talking to them on this podcast. And now they're out there
01:32:24 --> 01:32:28 running for Congress. And it'd be really cool if she could get on there too
01:32:29 --> 01:32:34 and join Dr. Jasmine Clark and some other folks.
01:32:34 --> 01:32:39 And DC just had, like I said, DC just had their primary.
01:32:39 --> 01:32:47 And so this is the first election in a long time that the citizens of DC had
01:32:47 --> 01:32:50 to elect a new mayor and a new delegate.
01:32:51 --> 01:32:57 As you know, D.C. has a non-voting delegate. They have representation,
01:32:57 --> 01:33:00 but they don't have a voice, which is one of the reasons why D.C.
01:33:00 --> 01:33:06 Statehood is still an issue we need to have a discussion about and get behind.
01:33:06 --> 01:33:14 But this is the first election they've had in a long, long time where both of those seats were up.
01:33:15 --> 01:33:21 And so you're going to see some new faces in the D.C. area in leadership.
01:33:21 --> 01:33:28 They've got it. They still got it right. As of right now, there's still a runoff, I believe.
01:33:28 --> 01:33:32 I hadn't I didn't get a chance to check before I started recording to see if they called it.
01:33:32 --> 01:33:36 But the two favorites that.
01:33:38 --> 01:33:45 Were in the league and then, but they did have somebody went outright for the
01:33:45 --> 01:33:49 delegate thing, delegate position, at least the Democrat nomination.
01:33:49 --> 01:33:53 And then they've got to go, you know, in the general in November because they
01:33:53 --> 01:33:54 have Republican opponents.
01:33:55 --> 01:33:59 And this is the first year I think that they did the rank choice.
01:33:59 --> 01:34:02 So that's why it's taking a while for the DC numbers to come in.
01:34:04 --> 01:34:08 Because they've got to count all the people, the first place ballots first,
01:34:09 --> 01:34:12 and then they got to go back and see who finished, you know,
01:34:12 --> 01:34:16 who was the second choice and who was the third draft. They eliminate so many
01:34:16 --> 01:34:19 people. So that's why they haven't called it yet.
01:34:19 --> 01:34:23 And it might end up that it's not going to be a runoff. It might,
01:34:24 --> 01:34:26 it might be a winner in that one.
01:34:26 --> 01:34:29 Once, excuse me, once it's all said and done.
01:34:29 --> 01:34:34 Anyway, so I just wanted to acknowledge that part. And, you know,
01:34:34 --> 01:34:38 Grace, Grace kind of told you all the names, but I just wanted to highlight
01:34:38 --> 01:34:39 those particular races.
01:34:40 --> 01:34:45 Let's get into the things that have kind of pissed me off. Right.
01:34:46 --> 01:34:53 So the first thing is something that may not have hit your radar yet.
01:34:53 --> 01:34:58 But if you're in the Chicago area, you you've heard it for sure.
01:34:58 --> 01:35:05 And that the city of Evanston, Illinois, was the first city in America to do,
01:35:06 --> 01:35:09 something towards reparations, right?
01:35:10 --> 01:35:17 And the way that they set it up was that they wanted to, they created a program
01:35:17 --> 01:35:23 to allow Black residents to be able to afford houses in Evanston.
01:35:24 --> 01:35:31 And the city gives X amount of dollars and, you know, for that first purchase,
01:35:32 --> 01:35:37 either for like a down payment or whatever, cover closing costs, whatever the deal is.
01:35:37 --> 01:35:41 But if you're a black resident and there are certain criteria.
01:35:42 --> 01:35:49 You know, if you're if you're, you know, a native of Evanston and you're African-American,
01:35:50 --> 01:35:52 that you qualify for a program.
01:35:53 --> 01:35:56 So, you know, and that's been going on for a few years.
01:35:56 --> 01:36:02 As a matter of fact, one of the guests I had, Ted Williams, he serves as on
01:36:02 --> 01:36:07 the board for or the commission, I guess, for the state of Illinois doing reparations.
01:36:07 --> 01:36:12 So he had a lot to do with that. But the city council person,
01:36:12 --> 01:36:16 it was a young lady, I can't remember her name right off, who introduced it.
01:36:16 --> 01:36:19 She's on that same commission with Brother Williams.
01:36:20 --> 01:36:25 And so, you know, because it was the first model.
01:36:25 --> 01:36:35 And the mayor of Evanston, who was the mayor when this reparations program started,
01:36:36 --> 01:36:42 he is on the path to be the next congressman for the 9th District of Illinois.
01:36:42 --> 01:36:48 Now, this is the one where the young lady, he beat the young lady who got arrested.
01:36:49 --> 01:36:53 Katie Abagula, I think her name is.
01:36:53 --> 01:36:59 And I know I'm probably butchering her last name, but you've seen her on Instagram and all that.
01:36:59 --> 01:37:05 And she's a young lady that got arrested at one of the Illinois detention centers,
01:37:05 --> 01:37:08 protests and all that, the same detention center where they,
01:37:08 --> 01:37:12 like, you know, like gassed the priest and all those kind of things.
01:37:13 --> 01:37:20 But Daniel, Daniel beat her in the election, in the primary.
01:37:20 --> 01:37:25 And so he's he's on his way to be the next congressman for that district,
01:37:25 --> 01:37:33 which is why I think this next thing, the thing I'm getting ready to mention is happening.
01:37:33 --> 01:37:38 So now the Trump administration, for some reason, has decided that.
01:37:40 --> 01:37:48 They want to challenge the, y'all excuse me, they want to challenge the program,
01:37:48 --> 01:37:51 that's been out there for a while. As a matter of fact, I think it was out,
01:37:52 --> 01:37:54 you know, during his first term.
01:37:55 --> 01:37:59 It may not be that old, but it's been around, it's been going on for a while.
01:37:59 --> 01:38:08 And so now they decided that they want to intervene in a lawsuit and challenge
01:38:08 --> 01:38:11 it and say that it's reverse discrimination.
01:38:12 --> 01:38:19 You know, it's like, again, I know there's a lot of black folks that vote Republican
01:38:19 --> 01:38:22 or run as Republican and all that stuff.
01:38:23 --> 01:38:26 But it's just getting harder and harder for me to understand why.
01:38:27 --> 01:38:35 Right. You know, I just I mean, how much how much disrespect does it take for
01:38:35 --> 01:38:39 you not to want to be in proximity of that?
01:38:40 --> 01:38:43 You know, now, if you understand the history of American politics,
01:38:43 --> 01:38:49 you understand that black folks were Republican in mass once voting.
01:38:49 --> 01:38:56 They were eligible to vote and it switched over to the Democratic Party over time.
01:38:56 --> 01:39:02 And then, of course, a lot of Southern Democrats became Republicans, right?
01:39:03 --> 01:39:08 And we already had that conversation last week about the Southern influence on American politics.
01:39:09 --> 01:39:17 But, you know, when you have a group of people who just continue on a regular
01:39:17 --> 01:39:20 basis to just constantly try to,
01:39:21 --> 01:39:26 disrespect you, It just seems like at some point you ought to say, hey, stop that.
01:39:27 --> 01:39:30 You know, if you're in the party and you're black.
01:39:32 --> 01:39:37 You need to tell them, hey, you're stepping on toes.
01:39:38 --> 01:39:45 That's not the fight you want to get in. You know, and this whole reverse discrimination nonsense.
01:39:47 --> 01:39:51 I don't think there's anything in the law that says that people in Evanston
01:39:51 --> 01:39:53 that are white can't buy a house.
01:39:54 --> 01:39:58 I don't believe that. You know, the majority of the government in Evanston is
01:39:58 --> 01:40:01 white that voted for this program.
01:40:02 --> 01:40:07 You know, it's not a majority black city by any stretch of the imagination.
01:40:07 --> 01:40:09 And neither is Chicago, believe it or not.
01:40:10 --> 01:40:17 But nonetheless, these these folks in the, I guess, the Department of Justice
01:40:17 --> 01:40:20 decided that black folks shouldn't get anything.
01:40:21 --> 01:40:28 Right. And so for all those folks that, you know, been pushing the reparations,
01:40:28 --> 01:40:35 agenda, It would seem like I think, you know, which side is on your side and which side is not.
01:40:36 --> 01:40:40 Now, you can make the arguments that the Democrats have given you lip service.
01:40:40 --> 01:40:43 I feel you on that. But they're not taking you to court.
01:40:44 --> 01:40:54 And so I need you, you know, to acknowledge that and understand who is on your side and who ain't.
01:40:55 --> 01:41:00 You know, there's with this action that the Trump administration is taking to
01:41:00 --> 01:41:07 stop the very first reparations program, government sanction program in a country,
01:41:08 --> 01:41:09 that's been going on for a while.
01:41:10 --> 01:41:14 They've decided in an election year that they want to shut it down.
01:41:15 --> 01:41:17 They won't be successful. I don't think.
01:41:18 --> 01:41:21 If it gets all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court, God only knows.
01:41:22 --> 01:41:28 Which by the way start paying attention this week because the Supreme Court
01:41:28 --> 01:41:33 is going to start rolling out some decisions they actually kind of started last week but yeah.
01:41:34 --> 01:41:39 I think it's pretty clear if you are an advocate for reparations,
01:41:39 --> 01:41:40 what side you need to be on.
01:41:41 --> 01:41:44 And I'll just leave it at that because, you know, a lot of folks,
01:41:44 --> 01:41:48 well, we ain't voting for anybody. No, bruh.
01:41:48 --> 01:41:55 If you don't vote for anybody, then you have no you have no leverage to push for the issue.
01:41:56 --> 01:41:59 And since it seemed like you are having trouble picking a side,
01:42:00 --> 01:42:02 the Trump administration has picked a side for you.
01:42:03 --> 01:42:08 So if y'all serious about it, then that needs to be reflected in the vote.
01:42:08 --> 01:42:12 That's all I'm saying. Don't sit there and say, well, you know,
01:42:12 --> 01:42:17 Democrats hadn't, bruh, again, the Democrats are not suing to stop the only
01:42:17 --> 01:42:19 program that's out there.
01:42:19 --> 01:42:22 That's actually been helping some black people.
01:42:23 --> 01:42:25 Do we want to have more? Of course we do.
01:42:28 --> 01:42:31 Anyway, so that's, I'm going to leave it there on that one.
01:42:31 --> 01:42:36 I just, you know, I just get tired of people trying to find an excuse to be
01:42:36 --> 01:42:42 apathetic, you know, and leaning on an issue as a crutch instead of manning
01:42:42 --> 01:42:46 and woman, you know, womaning up and picking a side.
01:42:47 --> 01:42:50 And then once you pick that side, hold that side accountable.
01:42:52 --> 01:42:57 Excuse me. I mean, that's that's how we do that in the in the political game.
01:42:57 --> 01:43:02 So just thought I'd throw that out there. Now, this whole thing,
01:43:02 --> 01:43:04 let me tell you about this guy, right?
01:43:05 --> 01:43:14 So I didn't watch the spectacle at the White House, the Freedom 250 UFC fight. I didn't watch that.
01:43:15 --> 01:43:18 You know, some people say, well, I don't have Paramount Plus anyway,
01:43:18 --> 01:43:19 so I couldn't watch it, and that's fine.
01:43:20 --> 01:43:25 I have Paramount Plus because there's some shows I like that's on there.
01:43:26 --> 01:43:30 But I didn't, so I could have watched it, and I didn't.
01:43:31 --> 01:43:34 Because I'm not that big of a UFC guy. See, I'm a boxing guy.
01:43:35 --> 01:43:39 You know, let's duke it out with our hands. You ain't got to,
01:43:39 --> 01:43:42 like, grab me or kick me or anything like that.
01:43:42 --> 01:43:46 But, you know, that's just, I could go to a bar and see that for free,
01:43:46 --> 01:43:50 you know, at least when I was younger, for sure. I don't want to pay to see that.
01:43:51 --> 01:43:56 You know, in my role in law enforcement, I've had to do security at UFC events.
01:43:57 --> 01:44:06 And, you know, the undercards are just flat out terrible because these are not the top of the line.
01:44:06 --> 01:44:13 And they have so many fights lined up that, you know, you're there for like,
01:44:14 --> 01:44:20 three, four hours, you know, by the time the main event happens.
01:44:20 --> 01:44:24 So, you know, since this was set up for TV and, you know, it was on the White
01:44:24 --> 01:44:28 House, it was a very short card, if you want to understand.
01:44:28 --> 01:44:34 But, you know, I'm not that big of a fan, but that's OK, you know,
01:44:35 --> 01:44:41 because I can say that during my legislative tenure, I'm one of the reasons
01:44:41 --> 01:44:46 why it's legal, because all of us that was in the legislature 20 some years ago,
01:44:46 --> 01:44:52 were debating whether we were going to allow these mixed martial arts fights to even exist.
01:44:52 --> 01:44:58 Because all of the states, especially the states that have boxing commissions.
01:45:00 --> 01:45:03 Which I think every state does, you know.
01:45:04 --> 01:45:10 We had to give those commissions the authority to legalize the fights because
01:45:10 --> 01:45:15 prior to that, people were just doing it and there was no regulation,
01:45:15 --> 01:45:17 you know, as far as, you know,
01:45:18 --> 01:45:20 medical conditions and all that stuff.
01:45:20 --> 01:45:26 And so you got to have some regulation with those kind of combat sports.
01:45:26 --> 01:45:34 And so those of us that we're in in the state legislature during that time you
01:45:34 --> 01:45:40 can thank us for legalizing it even if we're not big fans right so anyway,
01:45:41 --> 01:45:44 nobody has talked about the fights.
01:45:45 --> 01:45:50 Since the event happened usually when you have a UFC fight you know especially
01:45:50 --> 01:45:54 if you've got some high profile people or you know undefeated people in there,
01:45:55 --> 01:46:00 people talk about oh well you know they're still undefeated and all, you know, he did, he,
01:46:01 --> 01:46:04 finished him in an arm bar and all that, you know.
01:46:05 --> 01:46:10 It was no, nobody was talking about that. All they were talking about was this guy named Josh Hokett.
01:46:11 --> 01:46:14 And I guess I'm saying his name right. I don't really care, you know,
01:46:15 --> 01:46:21 because I'm not going to get in a fight with him because, you know,
01:46:22 --> 01:46:27 if he wants to start something with me, I'm going to use my Second Amendment right on him.
01:46:28 --> 01:46:32 I mean, it's just, I mean, you know, his hands, his feet are weapons.
01:46:32 --> 01:46:39 And so it's like, yeah, so I'm not trained in that. So I am trained in my second
01:46:39 --> 01:46:42 amendment rights. So, you know, I'll just leave it at that.
01:46:43 --> 01:46:51 But, you know, he decided now here's this guy. Now he's ranked number five in
01:46:51 --> 01:46:56 the heavyweight division in UFC. So he's one of the top guys, right?
01:46:56 --> 01:46:59 And he's undefeated.
01:47:00 --> 01:47:06 So you would think he won his fight. So you would think that would be what we
01:47:06 --> 01:47:09 were talking about, that we were going to talk about it from a truly sports angle.
01:47:09 --> 01:47:13 But no, he decides he wants to get up there.
01:47:13 --> 01:47:19 And now this is after he puked at the weigh-in at the Lincoln Memorial,
01:47:19 --> 01:47:25 which is why it was a bad idea to do the weigh-in at a national monument like
01:47:25 --> 01:47:27 the Lincoln Memorial anyway.
01:47:28 --> 01:47:34 Why? Because Josh, Josh is the reason why people didn't want this event to happen at the White House.
01:47:35 --> 01:47:39 Right. He puked at the weigh in at the Lincoln Memorial.
01:47:40 --> 01:47:45 So I guess he figured he needed to do something else to get attention,
01:47:45 --> 01:47:49 not just win the fight and stay undefeated and stay ranked number five in the
01:47:49 --> 01:47:52 in his weight division. That wasn't enough.
01:47:53 --> 01:48:02 He had to turn around and call the former first lady, my homegirl, Michelle Obama, a man.
01:48:02 --> 01:48:10 Now, this is not the first time he's done that. He did it in 2022 in a public event. He said that.
01:48:11 --> 01:48:15 And he's one of them people on social media and all that stuff.
01:48:16 --> 01:48:18 Whatever chat room UFC fighters go to.
01:48:18 --> 01:48:27 They, he, he, he's, he's basically the, the male, the UFC version of Nancy Mace, right?
01:48:27 --> 01:48:33 He doesn't like transgender people, you know, and, and he has said before he's,
01:48:33 --> 01:48:40 he, he, all those 10 hat right wing conspiracy stuff. He's down with that. He's that dude.
01:48:40 --> 01:48:46 And, you know, some people are trying to say he's Latino. I think he's more AAPI.
01:48:47 --> 01:48:51 Doesn't matter. He's an asshole. That's what he is. That's his nationality. Right? Right.
01:48:53 --> 01:49:01 And, you know, I just think people like that need the Ernie Terrell treatment. What do I mean by that?
01:49:02 --> 01:49:08 So, for those of you who are true boxing fans, especially if you're from Chicago,
01:49:09 --> 01:49:13 there was this young heavyweight fighter named Ernie Terrell.
01:49:14 --> 01:49:18 And he was considered up and coming and all that. But at the same time,
01:49:19 --> 01:49:25 there was a young man who had just won the heavyweight title initially as Cassius Clay.
01:49:26 --> 01:49:31 We now know him as Muhammad Ali as he changed his name after he won the title.
01:49:32 --> 01:49:35 So Terrell was like either his first or second.
01:49:36 --> 01:49:41 Well, it had to be at least his second defense because he had a rematch with Liston.
01:49:41 --> 01:49:46 And I want to say either this was the next fight or the fight after that in
01:49:46 --> 01:49:47 which he fought Terrell.
01:49:48 --> 01:49:51 And, you know, everybody thought that was going to be a good match because Terrell,
01:49:52 --> 01:50:00 he was a young guy, had good punching power, came up through the Chicago boxing circuit as an amateur.
01:50:00 --> 01:50:07 So New York City and Chicago were considered like, and Detroit were considered
01:50:07 --> 01:50:08 like the meccas of boxing.
01:50:09 --> 01:50:12 Ali was definitely an anomaly coming from Louisville, Kentucky.
01:50:12 --> 01:50:14 So they thought it would be a good fight.
01:50:15 --> 01:50:21 Well, Mr. Terrell decided he wanted to try to get in Muhammad Ali's head.
01:50:22 --> 01:50:27 And so he wouldn't call him Muhammad Ali. He would always refer to him as Cassius Clay.
01:50:28 --> 01:50:34 And there was the classic confrontation. Of course, Howard Cosell was the instigator
01:50:34 --> 01:50:35 because he was the reporter.
01:50:35 --> 01:50:41 And Howard asked Terrell, why don't you call him Muhammad Ali?
01:50:41 --> 01:50:45 Which Muhammad Ali came back and said, that's right. My name's Ali,
01:50:45 --> 01:50:47 Muhammad Ali. Say my name.
01:50:48 --> 01:50:52 And Terrell looked at Cosell and said, his mama named him Clay.
01:50:53 --> 01:50:54 I'm going to call him Clay.
01:50:55 --> 01:51:01 So if you saw the movie Ali, if you haven't seen the actual fight on tape,
01:51:01 --> 01:51:07 if you've seen the movie Ali, they depicted that fight because that was a moment,
01:51:07 --> 01:51:09 not only in sports, but in the culture.
01:51:09 --> 01:51:16 And Muhammad Ali said afterwards that he deliberately wanted to beat this guy
01:51:16 --> 01:51:20 up. He did not want to knock him out. He wanted to punish him.
01:51:21 --> 01:51:25 And every time Ali got a clean shot in and looked like he hurt Terrell,
01:51:26 --> 01:51:29 He would ask the question, what's my name?
01:51:30 --> 01:51:35 And later on in the fight, he was like, say my name. Right. Now,
01:51:35 --> 01:51:37 I don't know if Terrell ever did.
01:51:39 --> 01:51:45 During that fight, but the message was sent. It's like, you got to go disrespect me like that.
01:51:45 --> 01:51:48 But, you know, if you are, you're going to have to back that up.
01:51:48 --> 01:51:54 And clearly, Mr. Terrell was not in the position, talent-wise or otherwise,
01:51:54 --> 01:51:56 to back that up. And Muhammad Ali won the fight.
01:51:57 --> 01:52:01 So I think that's what Josh Hokut's got to go through. I think he needs to have
01:52:01 --> 01:52:06 an early Terrell moment. I think now the last two or three guys he beat were
01:52:06 --> 01:52:09 black folks. So I don't know.
01:52:11 --> 01:52:17 I i i've been telling you know i know john jones is kind of like in the doghouse
01:52:17 --> 01:52:19 he might actually be retired retired for real,
01:52:20 --> 01:52:26 but you know if i was dana white i would have called john jones who's considered
01:52:26 --> 01:52:30 one of the greatest ufc fighters ever and say hey man,
01:52:31 --> 01:52:37 I need you to fight Josh Hogan. I want you to see, one, we want to see if he's
01:52:37 --> 01:52:40 legit because he's undefeated. And two.
01:52:42 --> 01:52:45 I need somebody to kind of put him in his place.
01:52:46 --> 01:52:50 Because even Dana White said afterwards that that was uncalled for, right?
01:52:51 --> 01:52:56 And one of the biggest promoters of USC in the podcast world,
01:52:56 --> 01:53:01 the guy that's over Barstool Sports, he condemned it as well.
01:53:01 --> 01:53:02 Now, the White House did not.
01:53:03 --> 01:53:06 I guess they were too busy trying to get their lawsuit together against the folks in Evanston.
01:53:07 --> 01:53:15 But they haven't or covered their tracks for the farce of a war that they conducted against Iran.
01:53:15 --> 01:53:21 But they haven't said anything other than, oh, it was a great event.
01:53:21 --> 01:53:23 Did you see the planes flying over?
01:53:24 --> 01:53:29 Which was kind of a cool highlight. I have to admit that was cost us a lot of
01:53:29 --> 01:53:34 taxpayer money for that. But it was kind of a cool visual to see those jets
01:53:34 --> 01:53:36 flying over the White House. I would have to admit that.
01:53:37 --> 01:53:40 But that's all the White House would talk about. They weren't talking about
01:53:40 --> 01:53:43 what this guy, they wouldn't condemn what Josh said.
01:53:44 --> 01:53:47 So if I was Dana, I'd call John Jones out of retirement and say,
01:53:47 --> 01:53:53 man, might need you to give him the Ernie Terrell treatment. Right.
01:53:54 --> 01:53:59 Kind of bring him down a notch. That's what it's going to have to take.
01:53:59 --> 01:54:01 It's just going to have to be somebody in the ring.
01:54:03 --> 01:54:08 The next fighter should have Michelle Obama on his trunks or whatever,
01:54:09 --> 01:54:13 the name Michelle Obama in the trunk, and just beat his brains out.
01:54:14 --> 01:54:17 I mean, that's the only way he's going to learn any kind of humility,
01:54:19 --> 01:54:24 anything, because Michelle can't do it, You know, even though she was an athlete,
01:54:25 --> 01:54:28 you know, she's a woman and she's not going to fight that guy.
01:54:29 --> 01:54:32 But somebody just needs to give him the Ernie Terrell treatment and just and
01:54:32 --> 01:54:39 just whip his butt and just bring him down to earth because his biggest problem is hubris.
01:54:39 --> 01:54:43 He's undefeated. I think he was a pro football player at one time.
01:54:43 --> 01:54:46 And so he didn't he didn't stick
01:54:46 --> 01:54:51 with pro football. So he went into mixed martial arts, which is fine.
01:54:51 --> 01:54:57 You know, if he wasn't an asshole, nobody, everybody would be celebrating the fact that he's 10 and 0.
01:54:58 --> 01:55:01 But because he is an asshole, we're talking about that.
01:55:02 --> 01:55:10 So I don't watch a lot of UFC fights, but I will watch the highlights if they say he lost.
01:55:12 --> 01:55:16 I'll be happy about that because there's some people that deserve that.
01:55:17 --> 01:55:24 If you don't have enough class and respect for humanity, we talked about that
01:55:24 --> 01:55:28 in Justin's interview, you know, dignity and humanity.
01:55:28 --> 01:55:33 If you don't understand that concept, you know, you're going to have problems.
01:55:34 --> 01:55:38 You're going to have like people like me talk about you and you may get somebody
01:55:38 --> 01:55:42 to step in the ring and show you some, you know, humility.
01:55:43 --> 01:55:46 So, you know, we'll see.
01:55:47 --> 01:55:53 I just think, you know, again, for these people that's on the fence and think
01:55:53 --> 01:55:58 that there's something redeemable about a lot of these people, it's not.
01:55:59 --> 01:56:03 I think if people really understood, because a lot of folks don't get it,
01:56:04 --> 01:56:14 if people really understood that the concept of this nation was that it was to be created not from,
01:56:15 --> 01:56:19 some kind of divine right, like a kingdom or anything like that.
01:56:20 --> 01:56:28 It was an idea that people can govern themselves. They don't need to be ruled over.
01:56:29 --> 01:56:30 They can govern themselves.
01:56:31 --> 01:56:34 They don't need to be controlled by a religion.
01:56:34 --> 01:56:36 They can govern themselves.
01:56:37 --> 01:56:44 You know, I just, you know, I don't know why in human history there's always
01:56:44 --> 01:56:52 that flaw that it seems like, well, we just got to strong-arm people to do what we want them to do.
01:56:52 --> 01:56:56 No, you have to educate. If you want to strong-arm people, educate them.
01:56:57 --> 01:57:03 Give them the full scope. Give them every avenue and resource available.
01:57:04 --> 01:57:09 Make it so that they can learn at home and learn in the classroom, right? You just got to.
01:57:10 --> 01:57:16 You got to do better. It's just, you know, the only way we can stop authoritarianism
01:57:16 --> 01:57:20 and all that stuff is people have to be educated.
01:57:21 --> 01:57:24 If you educate the masses, the masses will not be controlled.
01:57:25 --> 01:57:28 Right? So, you know.
01:57:30 --> 01:57:35 I just don't understand people who still think that it's a both sides conversation.
01:57:36 --> 01:57:41 It's not. not for rational, educated people.
01:57:42 --> 01:57:46 And you don't have to have an Ivy League degree to be educated.
01:57:46 --> 01:57:50 You don't even have to have a college degree to be educated, right?
01:57:51 --> 01:57:57 Just common sense would tell you that this is not a both sides issue.
01:57:57 --> 01:58:02 If you're a decent person that believes in the dignity and humanity of human
01:58:02 --> 01:58:04 beings, it's not a both sides issue.
01:58:05 --> 01:58:11 You got folks that don't give a damn about people, and then you got us, the people.
01:58:12 --> 01:58:16 And we've got to stop buying their bullshit,
01:58:18 --> 01:58:22 and put them in positions of power. I've said this before on the podcast.
01:58:22 --> 01:58:29 If there's a guy that is against the government, running for government office, do not vote for them.
01:58:29 --> 01:58:33 If they're saying, I want to destroy the government.
01:58:34 --> 01:58:38 And they're applying for a government job, don't hire them.
01:58:39 --> 01:58:43 Because if you bring them in, they're going to try to destroy the government.
01:58:44 --> 01:58:48 Project 2025 is the guidebook to destroy the government.
01:58:49 --> 01:58:53 And people voted for the guy that was following the guidebook.
01:58:55 --> 01:59:00 You just got to stop that. You know what I'm saying? If you're running for office,
01:59:00 --> 01:59:05 and you're against the government, then just know that if everybody else votes for you, I won't.
01:59:06 --> 01:59:10 Because I don't think you should be in a job that you're trying to destroy.
01:59:11 --> 01:59:16 Nobody would hire somebody in their company if they say, I'm going to rob it at the interview.
01:59:17 --> 01:59:20 I'm going to burn the building down. They won't hire that person.
01:59:21 --> 01:59:25 So why do we elect people who say they want to destroy the government.
01:59:26 --> 01:59:34 Now, if you want to change government, okay. If you want to make it more responsive to people, okay.
01:59:35 --> 01:59:38 But these folks are, oh, we got to tear it down and all this stuff.
01:59:38 --> 01:59:43 And the only reason why they're mad is because white people aren't the only
01:59:43 --> 01:59:44 ones benefiting from it.
01:59:45 --> 01:59:53 That's it. When they see somebody looks like me, somebody from other or ethnic
01:59:53 --> 01:59:55 cultures other than white benefiting
01:59:55 --> 01:59:59 from government, they're angry and they want to tear it all down.
02:00:00 --> 02:00:03 They'd rather tear down. They'd rather cancel an election.
02:00:04 --> 02:00:08 They'd rather have an insurrection than allow a government of the people,
02:00:08 --> 02:00:11 by the people, and for the people to stand.
02:00:13 --> 02:00:17 That's where they are. And so anybody that's against that concept,
02:00:18 --> 02:00:23 anybody that keeps talking about this Christian national, all this stuff, stop that.
02:00:24 --> 02:00:30 Stop voting for these people. Vote for people that give a damn about us,
02:00:30 --> 02:00:36 that want to exhibit some real American leadership and make decisions and policies
02:00:36 --> 02:00:38 to take this country to the next level.
02:00:39 --> 02:00:44 People that understand the humanity of other humans. vote for them.
02:00:45 --> 02:00:50 Stop voting for these slick talking comments. One of the rules I used to have
02:00:50 --> 02:00:52 in the jail, and I'll let y'all go on this.
02:00:52 --> 02:00:57 One of the rules I used to have in the jail is that you need to talk slow, clear, and loud.
02:00:58 --> 02:01:03 Because if you got an inmate that's talking really, really fast,
02:01:04 --> 02:01:05 they trying to get over on you.
02:01:05 --> 02:01:08 If you're talking to somebody that's like, you know, you hear them yelling from
02:01:08 --> 02:01:10 one end of the pod to the other.
02:01:11 --> 02:01:13 But then when you ask one question, they start mumbling.
02:01:15 --> 02:01:21 No, I need to understand what you're saying. I need you to take your time and say it, right?
02:01:22 --> 02:01:26 And I need you to be loud when you say it. Loud enough for me to hear it.
02:01:27 --> 02:01:31 It was just a rule. Because I knew, especially the ones that were talking slick,
02:01:31 --> 02:01:34 they get to talking real fast, but I would probably say, no,
02:01:34 --> 02:01:37 bro, you talking too fast. I'm going to move on.
02:01:39 --> 02:01:42 Because whatever you're trying to get over me, I ain't got time, right?
02:01:43 --> 02:01:47 So stop listening, you know, stop getting caught up with these slick-talking folks.
02:01:48 --> 02:01:54 You want plain-talking people. Why do you think Graham Plattner is doing well in Maine?
02:01:55 --> 02:01:58 Because he's talking plain. You know, people are saying, well,
02:01:58 --> 02:02:02 he's not really working class, and he's got all these issues with women,
02:02:02 --> 02:02:03 blah, blah, this, and that.
02:02:04 --> 02:02:09 We literally have a rapist in the White House, a felon in the White House right now.
02:02:10 --> 02:02:14 I think the standards are gone. Now, if we want to bring him back,
02:02:14 --> 02:02:18 I feel you. But you can't use that as an argument right this minute.
02:02:20 --> 02:02:26 You get it. So, you know, let's do better, y'all.
02:02:28 --> 02:02:35 Let's stop giving people like Josh and his ilk a platform, you know,
02:02:36 --> 02:02:42 or just relegate them to the minority of society, right?
02:02:43 --> 02:02:46 And when I say that, it's like you stay in your lane.
02:02:47 --> 02:02:50 You're a good fighter, just fight, you know.
02:02:50 --> 02:02:57 So if your educated guess is that a former first lady is a man,
02:02:57 --> 02:02:59 we don't need to hear your political commentary.
02:03:00 --> 02:03:03 You can talk to your friends, but you don't need to be on a national platform,
02:03:04 --> 02:03:04 if that's what you believe.
02:03:05 --> 02:03:11 That's just me. You believe the earth is flat? I don't need you in public office.
02:03:12 --> 02:03:20 I just don't. Ain't got time. Or any other crazy thing that's out there. Right? Ain't got time.
02:03:21 --> 02:03:24 Now, you can be free to move about the country, as they say at Southwest,
02:03:25 --> 02:03:27 you know what I'm saying? But I don't want you in leadership.
02:03:28 --> 02:03:34 I don't want to see you on a national platform. And we got to start treating them like that.
02:03:35 --> 02:03:37 And that's the only way we're going to move this country forward.
02:03:38 --> 02:03:44 We got to get to the point where we're committed and educated enough to just
02:03:44 --> 02:03:47 vote for people who give a damn about other people.
02:03:48 --> 02:03:52 All right, guys, that's all I got. Thank y'all for listening. Until next time.