In this episode Erik Fleming speaks with Paul M. Katz about his nonpartisan book Commit Together and civic engagement ahead of the midterms, then interviews Juliet Faithfull about her novel Liar's Dice, exploring family, loss, censorship, and Brazil’s dictatorship. The hosts discuss voting rights, democracy, economic justice, literacy, and how culture and storytelling motivate civic participation.
Listeners are encouraged to vote, support the show, and check resources at committogether.org and the guests’ websites for ways to get involved.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:02:00 --> 00:02:05 Hello. Welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:14 So today I have two guests. One is Paul Katz. He has written a book called Commit Together.
00:02:15 --> 00:02:24 And it is a book that is trying to increase our civic engagement.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:31 And I'm really glad that I was able to catch up with him before the elections on November 3rd.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:36 And then the other guest is Juliet Faithful.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:43 And Juliet has written a book called Liar's Dice, which is a fictional book,
00:02:43 --> 00:02:51 but it covers some topics that those of us in the political world need to address.
00:02:53 --> 00:03:00 And so and it's a very very both books are very good commit together is is is the shorter of the two,
00:03:01 --> 00:03:06 but they're both very good reads and and that'd be a good yin and yang you know
00:03:07 --> 00:03:12 non-fiction book in a novel to add to your reading list.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:16 When this episode drops,
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 It'll be the eve of the election.
00:03:23 --> 00:03:28 So I hope that by the time that you hear the sound of my voice,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:41 that you have either early voted or you are committed to voting on Tuesday, November the 3rd.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:44 And, you know,
00:03:46 --> 00:03:51 by November the 4th, it'll be all over but the crying, as we used to say.
00:03:52 --> 00:03:58 And so I hope that we get the results that we need, right? I hope that everything
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 goes, but I'll get into that a little more in the commentary,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:03 but glad that you're here.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:09 You're going to enjoy these interviews, and now it's time to kick it off,
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:26 Thanks, Eric. The parents of Alex Preddy publicly criticized the Trump administration
00:04:26 --> 00:04:31 for withholding evidence from prosecutors investigating his fatal shooting by
00:04:31 --> 00:04:32 federal immigration agents.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:38 A federal grand jury declined to indict former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 following a Justice Department investigation into her capital attack testimony.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:48 The Department of Justice clarified in court filings that federal FBI and ICE
00:04:48 --> 00:04:52 personnel will not serve as election monitors for the midterms.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:57 A federal judge barred the Justice Department from threatening state and local
00:04:57 --> 00:05:01 election officials who failed to comply with federal voter rolls' demands.
00:05:02 --> 00:05:09 The Trump administration filed a revised lawsuit to potentially contest Alaska's election results.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:15 A Texas grand jury indicted an ICE officer on aggravated assault charges for
00:05:15 --> 00:05:17 striking a man his vehicle.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:22 A federal judge rejected a Justice Department request to block California from
00:05:22 --> 00:05:28 counting mail-in ballots from over 20 voters alleged to be non-citizens.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:34 A Minnesota prosecutor charged conservative figures James O'Keefe and Cam Higbee
00:05:34 --> 00:05:40 with felony unlawful voting and identity theft over an August primary election stunt.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:46 Binance is collaborating with global law enforcement agencies to investigate
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 a record $6.3 billion platform hack.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 The Trump administration sued a Maryland public school district,
00:05:53 --> 00:05:59 alleging its transgender policies violated federal policy and pupil rights laws.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:05 A federal jury convicted a Rwandan-born Ohio man of perjury and obstruction
00:06:05 --> 00:06:11 for lying about his involvement in the 1994 Rwandan genocide during a 2019 trial.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:16 Pope Leo XIV became the first pontiff to cast a ballot in a U.S.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:20 Midterm election after submitting a mail-in vote in Chicago.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:26 The U.S. has recorded 4 total measles cases this year.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:35 And labor activist Dolores Huerta, co-founder of the United Farm Workers, died at the age of 96.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:39 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:51 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for
00:06:51 --> 00:06:54 my first guest, Paul Katz.
00:06:55 --> 00:07:00 Paul Katz, author of Commit Together, is a social impact entrepreneur,
00:07:00 --> 00:07:04 attorney, and founder of the nonpartisan Commit Together initiative.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:12 He is also the founder of Entertain Impact, a pioneering social impact and cause marketing agency.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:19 Paul Katz's first book, the award-winning Good Influence, How to Engage Influencers
00:07:19 --> 00:07:22 for Purpose and Profit, was an Amazon bestseller.
00:07:23 --> 00:07:27 Katz has spent his career bringing together culture, philanthropy,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:33 nonprofits, entertainment, and public policy to inspire measurable social change.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:40 In 2020, seeking to harness the power of cause, influence, for democratic engagement,
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 he founded the Entertain Impact Advocacy Alliance,
00:07:45 --> 00:07:51 an initiative focused on advancing nonpartisan civic participation and strengthening
00:07:51 --> 00:07:57 democratic institutions through strategic partnerships, storytelling, and public engagement.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:03 No Votes Barred, a nonpartisan voter rights and education campaign,
00:08:03 --> 00:08:06 is one of EIAA's initiatives,
00:08:07 --> 00:08:12 that works to increase voter registration and civic education while fostering
00:08:12 --> 00:08:18 participation and community connections among people with arrest and conviction records.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 Katz currently serves on the advisory board of the Greenberger Center for Social
00:08:23 --> 00:08:28 and Criminal Justice, the board of the ELMA Music Foundation,
00:08:29 --> 00:08:32 and previously served on the Board of Witness.
00:08:32 --> 00:08:36 He also co-chaired the Grammy Advocacy Committee.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:40 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:08:41 --> 00:08:45 on this podcast, Paul M. Katz.
00:08:56 --> 00:09:00 All right. Paul Katz, how are you doing, sir? Are you doing good?
00:09:01 --> 00:09:04 Generally, I'm doing good. I just came back from London. I've got a bit of a
00:09:04 --> 00:09:08 cold, so I hope you'll excuse if I sound a bit stuffed up and a bit jet-laggy,
00:09:08 --> 00:09:12 but I'm really looking forward to our conversation, Eric. So thanks for having me.
00:09:12 --> 00:09:17 Yes, sir. Well, you're going to be no different than the NFL players. It seems like they're,
00:09:19 --> 00:09:24 doing a lot of international games this season, so I think all of them are kind
00:09:24 --> 00:09:26 of feeling a little jet lagging when they get back.
00:09:27 --> 00:09:31 At least the way they've been playing on the field. But that's a whole nother podcast.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:37 So you wrote this book called Commit Together. And so we're going to have our
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 discussion based off of that and that whole concept.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:47 But what I like to do is to open up the conversation with a couple of icebreakers.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 So the first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.
00:09:53 --> 00:10:00 And the quote is, bad men need nothing more to compass their ends than that
00:10:00 --> 00:10:02 good men should look on and do nothing.
00:10:03 --> 00:10:08 Okay. Well, that is a quote that not only do I know well, it's in my book.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 And if this was being recorded on video, you would see behind me a picture of
00:10:14 --> 00:10:16 Gandhi and Martin Luther King together.
00:10:17 --> 00:10:21 So, I mean, he's a huge inspiration.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:29 And my take on that quote is basically, there's three things that we can do as human beings.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:35 We can do evil, and we all have examples of evil. And it's not binary.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:39 There's a continuum, there's complexity. I'm not suggesting that there isn't.
00:10:39 --> 00:10:43 You know, we can manifest all these things in our own selves,
00:10:44 --> 00:10:52 but we can do evil, we can do good, which I hope we try and do, or we can stand by.
00:10:53 --> 00:10:58 And I think Dr. King, I don't want to put words in his mouth,
00:10:58 --> 00:11:02 this is my interpretation, said, you know, you're almost as bad as the people
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 that do evil if you stand by and watch the evil.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:08 And he obviously was a fantastic person.
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 And so he didn't stand by and he lost his life as a result of it.
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 And it's funny because as you can tell by my accent, I'm a Brit.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:17 I'm from England originally.
00:11:17 --> 00:11:22 I came over here for a year in the 80s for music and didn't know much about
00:11:22 --> 00:11:28 American history growing up in England and was privileged really on the 40th
00:11:28 --> 00:11:29 anniversary of the Rosa Parks.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 Sitting down on the bus because we had a gospel label.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 And I kind of learned and I was very friendly with this guy called Greg Reed.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:45 Who was Mrs. Parks' attorney out of Detroit, to put together an album for the benefit of her and Mr.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:53 Parks as Raymond's foundation, and donating some money, and then going to see
00:11:53 --> 00:11:55 her get the Congressional Gold Medal with Clinton.
00:11:55 --> 00:12:01 So I learned quickly about Martin Luther King, and I learned quickly about the
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 whole civil rights movement.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 I never lived here, I didn't grow up here, but i but i've tried to to embody
00:12:08 --> 00:12:09 some of those principles,
00:12:10 --> 00:12:16 in my work so yeah i may i respond very strongly to that particular particular statement yeah,
00:12:17 --> 00:12:22 so now the next icebreaker is what i call 20 questions uh-huh so i need you
00:12:22 --> 00:12:28 to give me a number between one and 20 okay my lucky number's 13 so we'll uh
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 we'll go open the box of 13 please,
00:12:31 --> 00:12:36 all right do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 Well, that's an interesting one. And the answer in simple terms is I don't think
00:12:41 --> 00:12:44 there is because I don't think there's any such thing as an.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 All the influences that we've got. I wrote a book called Good Influence,
00:12:53 --> 00:12:56 which was about the use of pop culture for social impact.
00:12:56 --> 00:13:04 And I've looked, our parents, our caregivers, teachers, they're all influences,
00:13:04 --> 00:13:06 on us, hopefully good influences.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:11 And then the work that I had with my agencies to work on polio campaigns or
00:13:11 --> 00:13:15 in Haiti, et cetera, I looked at just the wonderful people that worked there,
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 which were a good influence on me.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:24 So when it comes to news, it's very interesting. I think we often consume news
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 that is what they call confirmation biased.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:31 It feeds into what we already believe and we choose the news that we believe.
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 I think a lot of the news, we, and I include myself in this,
00:13:36 --> 00:13:41 do you fact check it? Is it real news or is it just disinformation and misinformation?
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 So I think that's something we need to look at. But what I did recently,
00:13:45 --> 00:13:51 I was on a panel on democracy for the midterms with an institute in Switzerland,
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 that I work with on misinformation and disinformation on young voters.
00:13:55 --> 00:14:02 And to do that, I wanted not just me, I guess my politics are center-left in
00:14:02 --> 00:14:07 some areas, a little further left than others, and maybe more center than others.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:08 You know, as I said, there's complexity.
00:14:09 --> 00:14:13 And I wanted someone from the center-right. I wanted someone with a slightly different view from me.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:19 And to get that, I thought, you know what? Let me go and read Dispatch and Bulwark
00:14:19 --> 00:14:22 and this, you know, kind of the further right,
00:14:22 --> 00:14:27 not just fox and not the extreme left or extreme right and it was really interesting
00:14:27 --> 00:14:31 to hear some of those views and to broaden my knowledge base and so,
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 i've now also subscribed to one called ground news which looks at the bias in
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 all reporting so the so the answer is i think in life,
00:14:40 --> 00:14:45 we're biased i'm definitely biased not necessarily in a good way you know sometimes
00:14:45 --> 00:14:48 it's a good way sometimes it's not a good way and if you can acknowledge the
00:14:48 --> 00:14:53 bias if you can recognize it if you listen to other people who have different views,
00:14:54 --> 00:14:57 you can try and overcome it or be more empathetic, I think.
00:14:57 --> 00:15:01 So that's my take. Yeah. Okay.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:08 So why should we commit together? Well, I'm going to give you another quote.
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 There's an anthropologist long gone now called Margaret Mead,
00:15:15 --> 00:15:18 and I'm not going to get the quote quite right, but it's something like,
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22 I never doubt that a group of concerned citizens can change the world.
00:15:22 --> 00:15:26 In fact, it's the only thing that ever has. And I think if you look at,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:33 say, the civil rights movement, if you look at some of the stuff that I was
00:15:33 --> 00:15:37 involved with, such as Stop the Violence with Boogie Down Productions,
00:15:39 --> 00:15:40 who lives in Atlanta now, actually,
00:15:41 --> 00:15:47 started in some of the bigger movements, it's been one person that started it.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:50 And then they take the first step.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:54 And so Commit Together, which is non-partisan, I'm trying to bring in the moderate
00:15:54 --> 00:15:58 middle, meaning Democrats, Republicans, and independent voters,
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 which are the vast majority of people, to take some action.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:07 Because you've got very extreme left, you've got very extreme right to do this. And so.
00:16:08 --> 00:16:13 I think if you just take the first step, a lot of people are very exhausted
00:16:13 --> 00:16:18 and angry about what's going on in the world, especially with the current administration
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 where we've just been swamped and they feel overwhelmed.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 Not just with the stuff that's coming down from, you know, all these executive
00:16:24 --> 00:16:29 orders and these wars and pricing going up through the roof,
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 but also with the options. So Commit Together is part of a non-profit initiative.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 The book is one part of it, the initiative, committogether.org.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:44 Just says, hey, go on, look at economic justice, look at healthcare access,
00:16:45 --> 00:16:47 choose your topic that you're interested in,
00:16:48 --> 00:16:51 put in your political leanings, you know, and then you get three organizations
00:16:51 --> 00:16:53 that align with your values.
00:16:54 --> 00:16:57 And it'll tell you, and I can get into this later, it'll tell you,
00:16:57 --> 00:17:04 you know, why they're democratic, what they're going to be able to do what you can do with them.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 But the point being, I think here is that if you take the first step,
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 you know, it's like going to a gym, your muscles are a little achy,
00:17:12 --> 00:17:14 but you go to the gym or you go out for a long walk or whatever it is,
00:17:15 --> 00:17:17 hey, you begin to feel a little better.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 Your anxiety is overcome by action as I think about it.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:26 And then as you progress, okay, I did one thing, maybe I'll spend another 10
00:17:26 --> 00:17:27 minutes and do something else.
00:17:27 --> 00:17:33 You know, we all have busy lives we'll have families work you know whatever it is volunteerism,
00:17:33 --> 00:17:38 sport but you just spend five minutes doing something and then and then it has
00:17:38 --> 00:17:43 it has several effects effect one is you feel better.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:48 Two, you learn. Three, you find a community. I think community is really important here.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 And then four, you encourage others to take action. And then it builds.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:55 The civil rights movement didn't
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 start with two million people from every walk of life coming on board.
00:17:59 --> 00:18:07 The polio campaign that I've worked on with Gates and Rotary and UNICEF,
00:18:08 --> 00:18:09 it started with some Rotarians.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 It started with Salk giving the vaccine and not putting a patent on it.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 You know, and these people in their community really, really,
00:18:17 --> 00:18:19 really doing something. So I think
00:18:19 --> 00:18:24 if we work together, we can build this critical mass that makes change.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:32 And I think there's many examples of that all throughout history and in recent
00:18:32 --> 00:18:34 times that we could go into.
00:18:34 --> 00:18:39 So for me, it's really important to have the feeling you're not alone and that
00:18:39 --> 00:18:40 you're building something.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:46 Why did you feel it was important to informative readers of the book that you are an immigrant?
00:18:47 --> 00:18:52 Well, I mean, it's interesting because, you know, I came over here for a year
00:18:52 --> 00:18:56 in 85, my wife and I, to work with Jive Records.
00:18:56 --> 00:19:02 And I came from a different culture. I know it's the similar, what do they say?
00:19:02 --> 00:19:06 Two countries divided by a common language, but it's so easy to be fooled by
00:19:06 --> 00:19:08 the fact you speak English.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:13 I didn't realize anything about America.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:19 We had a group called Full Force, who were producers, still friends with Luke.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 They wrote a song called Black Man Can't Get a Cab. I said, what's that about
00:19:24 --> 00:19:28 and he said you stand around the corner you watch this is manhattan in the in the,
00:19:29 --> 00:19:33 in the 80s and i got it i thought boy i am just so out of my depth here i don't
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 really know what i'm doing and so it took me a lot,
00:19:37 --> 00:19:41 you know a long time to really read the room read the situation to understand
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 i'm not sure i really do understand completely after 40 years but you know i'm
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 certainly better than i was and and,
00:19:48 --> 00:19:53 it's america has been good to me you know i've raised I have American kids.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 My wife and I are friends.
00:19:56 --> 00:20:01 We've had careers. We've managed to give back, all that kind of stuff.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:07 Although in recent years, I'd say the last 15 years, I guess,
00:20:07 --> 00:20:12 no, less than 15 from 2016, I guess, that conversation has changed.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:19 And America's gone from a flawed, a free democracy to a flawed democracy as
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 judged by, say, the Economist Index.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:25 And i don't want that for my kids i don't want that for future generations and
00:20:25 --> 00:20:29 so it's been good to me i hopefully have been good to it and i'm determined
00:20:29 --> 00:20:31 that it's going to be a society that people think of fair,
00:20:32 --> 00:20:36 and and and treat people with respect and give opportunity to,
00:20:37 --> 00:20:39 while realizing it's an incredibly biased and,
00:20:40 --> 00:20:46 difficult society and and so for me that's that's that's really why i'm getting,
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51 and i've got the last 20 years much involved in civics or issues,
00:20:52 --> 00:20:53 whatever you want to call it.
00:20:54 --> 00:21:00 Yeah, I guess. But I'm lucky as an immigrant. I came over through a record company.
00:21:01 --> 00:21:07 I didn't have to go through a border without papers and stuff like that.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:16 But where I live, I want to make it better. I want to be in those three categories
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 that we talked about with Dr. King's quote.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:23 But I'd rather be on the good side of history than the neutral or the bad side,
00:21:23 --> 00:21:24 or at least from my perspective.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:31 Yeah. Yeah. Why is it important to present a nonpartisan approach,
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 especially in this volatile political climate?
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 Well, I guess I don't think anyone's nonpartisan, just to be clear.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 I mean, as I said, I'm kind of center-left.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:46 But I think for Commit Together, the idea is this.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:52 I've worked with people who are on the conservative right.
00:21:52 --> 00:21:55 We had Jive Records, which was a pop record.
00:21:57 --> 00:22:02 Anyone from Tribe Called Quest, Boogie Down Productions across to Britney Spears
00:22:02 --> 00:22:05 and NSYNC and those type of more pop acts.
00:22:05 --> 00:22:10 But we also had a gospel label. So we had people like Yolanda Adams and Donnie
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 McClurkin and Kirk Franklin.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:18 And we had a Christian label. And a Christian label is based in Nashville where
00:22:18 --> 00:22:21 it's much more conservative. There's Southern Baptists and Nazarenes, etc.
00:22:22 --> 00:22:27 And we'll definitely disagree on policy. You know, pro-life,
00:22:27 --> 00:22:28 pro-choice, we may disagree.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:33 But I think the fundamental thing that unites us all is the idea that we do
00:22:33 --> 00:22:37 like democracy and we don't want an authoritarian country.
00:22:38 --> 00:22:43 And therefore, as it slips into that authoritarianism, as rule of law erodes,
00:22:43 --> 00:22:49 as the presidency becomes more of a unitary presidency and has powers that are
00:22:49 --> 00:22:51 not being checked by Congress.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:56 I think we need to act now as opposed to say in a year's time,
00:22:56 --> 00:22:59 boy, if I'd have known then what I know now, I would have done.
00:22:59 --> 00:23:04 Let's do it now. It's never too late to start. Just start. That's really my message.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:10 And so nonpartisan means there's plenty of people who are from both sides,
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 or it's not even both sides. I don't like the idea of this binary perspective.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:18 It's a continuum. Some people are moderate Republicans, some are a little bit stronger, vice versa.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:23 But we're uniting under this idea of a democracy is good for our kids for future
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 generations for us you know,
00:23:26 --> 00:23:31 so i i i think by being non-partisan and giving options to different people,
00:23:31 --> 00:23:37 we the moderate middle which are 145 million voters i mean it's huge amounts and this isn't just me,
00:23:38 --> 00:23:42 you know doing doing it in a knee-jerk reaction this is research from say the
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 pew charitable trust that shows this,
00:23:44 --> 00:23:50 people people want to get involved they just don't know where to start and And the options are vast.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:54 So what we do is we're a concierge service and we're a curation.
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 So we give you three really simple organizations to look at.
00:23:59 --> 00:24:02 We have a methodology. We have professors of data scientists and researchers.
00:24:03 --> 00:24:04 Why are they democratic?
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 Because of their leadership, because of their impact, because of their transparency,
00:24:08 --> 00:24:13 accountability, weighted averages, stuff that's way, way complicated,
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 but it's on our website, committogether.org.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:18 You can see it.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:24 And, you know, we want to unite. And in fact, there's organizations on there.
00:24:24 --> 00:24:28 There's one particular category. There's only six or seven categories.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:29 We try and make it simple.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:34 And there's one called engaging across differences, which I think is really important.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:38 You know, if people communicate, if they volunteer, if they talk about their
00:24:38 --> 00:24:41 kids or their, you know, you mentioned the NFL.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:46 I mean, I'm a soccer person, but the NFL, if they have these things in common,
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 then you're treated as human beings, not just the other, you know?
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54 So there's one organization, Braven Angels Network, which brings together people
00:24:54 --> 00:24:57 to facilitate these conversations. It's been going for a long time.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:02 There's 400 chapters around the country if people know about they go for a conversation,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07 they we're going to have a have a society that gets on better um you're always
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 going to have extremes i understand that but i'd like to i'd like those extremes to stay on the,
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 extremes and not be part of the mainstream conversation and so,
00:25:17 --> 00:25:21 i think i think that's that's really important to be non-partisan and if i can
00:25:21 --> 00:25:25 continue if it's okay i don't take a be too long-winded but so.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:32 We've had these agencies called entertain impact and out of those grown grew
00:25:32 --> 00:25:36 a non-profit called the the entertain impact advocacy alliance,
00:25:36 --> 00:25:41 and it started just as a kind of a personal thing to put people together with
00:25:41 --> 00:25:46 organizations that they that they felt they could volunteer for and then we
00:25:46 --> 00:25:49 got asked by black pack to help get out the vote in georgia,
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 and so we said fine and And because of the gospel stuff, despite an,
00:25:54 --> 00:25:58 English guy with a saxon, I had connections in the gospel world and friends,
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 and we worked to get out the black faith-based vote.
00:26:03 --> 00:26:07 Especially around when Raphael Warnock and Janosov were running for the first time.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:13 And it was very interesting. We never said we weren't working for the Democrats, we're non-partisan,
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 but we wanted to get more people out to vote because I'm a big believer that,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:22 you want to empower people to vote, not gerrymander them or make it difficult
00:26:22 --> 00:26:28 or sow false statements of distrust in the electoral process.
00:26:29 --> 00:26:34 And so there what was really interesting was we went to, we had a couple of
00:26:35 --> 00:26:38 well-known people because that's how we worked was through pop culture.
00:26:38 --> 00:26:44 But the thing that really worked was people in their community who were trusted,
00:26:45 --> 00:26:47 the ministers, the hairdresser.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:53 Those type of folk, the head of the local school board, those were the people
00:26:53 --> 00:26:54 that got people out to vote.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 Nobody was telling them what to vote, But the fact if you can trust somebody,
00:26:58 --> 00:27:04 if you trust the process, irrespective of how they vote, and they weren't telling
00:27:04 --> 00:27:07 people how to vote, that makes a big difference.
00:27:07 --> 00:27:10 And I think there is this commonality of humanity that we have,
00:27:11 --> 00:27:15 without being naive about it, because I know there's some varied views out there
00:27:15 --> 00:27:17 and some varied methods to do things.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:22 But I'm kind of in the end of Dr. King Camp that, you know, persistence over
00:27:22 --> 00:27:26 time, nonviolence, that those things will win in the end.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:34 Yeah. Yeah. You make the argument that democracy endures only through participation.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 Are Americans really concerned about democracy?
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 Well, that is such a big question. I'm not going to give you a complete answer
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 to that, because I don't have a complete answer to that.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:56 But I believe that many, in fact, enough are, because 146 million voted last
00:27:56 --> 00:27:57 time in the presidential election.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:04 And I think we're going to get unusually high turnout for the midterms on November 3rd.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:10 And I think people are concerned in various ways. So if we come and look at
00:28:10 --> 00:28:12 this midterm election, I think people
00:28:12 --> 00:28:17 are concerned about the current administration. Is it doing a good job?
00:28:17 --> 00:28:19 Is it making life better for them?
00:28:20 --> 00:28:24 And not just them, but for their community, for their aligned communities.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:29 I personally don't think so in some areas that maybe one or two that I think
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 it's a bit better. The Trump accounts for young kids is probably a good thing.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:37 ICE, where I've had training to recognize ICE, I don't think is a good thing,
00:28:37 --> 00:28:44 you know so so you know again it's it's varied but i think people will come out but but the main,
00:28:44 --> 00:28:50 way that people i think look at these elections is personal is if i,
00:28:51 --> 00:28:54 am not in a better position than i was two years ago four years ago whenever,
00:28:55 --> 00:28:56 and affordability is one of these
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 big factors the economy always is the major one as far as i've seen it.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:09 Then they're not happy and gas prices are high, food prices are not where they should be.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:16 And this is from a situation where we were promised that that wouldn't be the case.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:21 So I think that's going to be a big thing. I think AI is going to drive people.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:27 Do we want that in our community? Are the benefits versus the negatives?
00:29:27 --> 00:29:29 Where does the balance tip?
00:29:29 --> 00:29:36 I think the demographics are also going to play a part. So last time in the
00:29:36 --> 00:29:42 presidential election, the Latino community went eight points more for the Trump ticket.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:46 I don't think that's a given. I think this gerrymandering that happened,
00:29:46 --> 00:29:48 which I believe was totally undemocratic.
00:29:51 --> 00:29:58 Will backfire. I think you're going to see that people move further away from Trump.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:06 So I think in the more esoteric sense, do they believe in democracy and rule of law.
00:30:08 --> 00:30:13 Balance of powers, and those type of things? In a general sense, I do think so.
00:30:13 --> 00:30:19 Yeah, I think we came to this country with the idea that this was not like Europe,
00:30:20 --> 00:30:22 where there was monarchies and all that kind of thing.
00:30:23 --> 00:30:27 However, I do think, you know, I've worked a lot in the black church,
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 and I've worked a lot with black musicians and artists.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:37 And, you know, I work, for example, with a lot of youth community centers around
00:30:37 --> 00:30:41 the country through the Elmer Music Foundation in South Central,
00:30:42 --> 00:30:43 in Compton, in the Bronx.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:47 And they don't have a theory of change, some of those folks.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 Some of those think there should be anarchism and the system is so screwed that
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 there is no democracy for certain folk.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 So I think there's lots of different perspectives, but I think if you take the
00:30:56 --> 00:31:00 mainstream within the system we have at the moment, which certainly can be improved.
00:31:01 --> 00:31:06 I think most people believe in democracy. But I think this particular election,
00:31:06 --> 00:31:11 and maybe going on, it's not left versus right. I think it's up versus down a lot.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:14 People that have, which is very, very few, and people that don't have,
00:31:14 --> 00:31:16 which is the vast majority.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:21 And I think that's where we're going to have real trouble unless we have solutions
00:31:22 --> 00:31:23 that make it fairer for people.
00:31:23 --> 00:31:27 So that's kind of where I am on it, I think.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:32 Mm-hmm. So you touched on it a little bit.
00:31:33 --> 00:31:37 How does economic stability and democracy connect?
00:31:38 --> 00:31:44 Yeah, good question. One of the chapters in my book is about economic justice.
00:31:45 --> 00:31:48 The difference, just to tell people, the book starts off with an audit of America.
00:31:49 --> 00:31:55 Where are we as a democracy from a governmental perspective and then from a
00:31:55 --> 00:31:56 personal, how does it affect your life?
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 And then it goes into these different modular sections, voting,
00:32:00 --> 00:32:03 healthcare, and economic justice.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 There is no economic policy that is democratic. There are various ones.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:14 Where does it affect us is very simple. If I am struggling to put food on my
00:32:14 --> 00:32:19 kids' table, if I'm struggling to put gas in the tank,
00:32:20 --> 00:32:24 I am not going to have, or even to take the day off to vote on November the 3rd.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:30 Or go and do early voting through mail ballots when it's being attacked. And,
00:32:31 --> 00:32:36 If I can't take that time because I have economic needs that are not being met.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:42 How do I go to a school board meeting?
00:32:43 --> 00:32:48 How can I participate? The answer is it's really tough, very, very difficult to do.
00:32:49 --> 00:32:52 I may not even be able to take the day off on November the 3rd to go vote.
00:32:52 --> 00:33:00 So so the the economy impacts democracy because the amount of people that participate
00:33:00 --> 00:33:06 in it narrow so what does that mean that means and i'm getting this is an extreme example but he's pretty,
00:33:06 --> 00:33:11 out there if you took musk who's now given 450 million dollars to this,
00:33:12 --> 00:33:14 campaign on behalf of Republicans,
00:33:15 --> 00:33:23 we can say that one person has had an outsized impact on what our country is going to look like.
00:33:23 --> 00:33:29 And I'm sure on the Democratic side, there's many tens of millions that's gone into it as well.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:33 I mean, the amount of money in politics is just beyond me and is not where I
00:33:33 --> 00:33:34 come from. It's much more limited.
00:33:35 --> 00:33:41 So what you're getting is a society shaped by the rich, which has always to
00:33:41 --> 00:33:46 an extent been there, but it seems to be much more exaggerated and amplified than it is now.
00:33:46 --> 00:33:50 So if we have economic policies, and we can disagree on what those policies
00:33:50 --> 00:33:56 are, but they make people's standard of living better, it takes away the anxieties as much as it can.
00:33:58 --> 00:34:01 And I come from a place where I believe in entrepreneurship,
00:34:01 --> 00:34:04 I believe in business, but you had a social contract with the government.
00:34:05 --> 00:34:09 The basic role of government was to make you safe, to give you an education
00:34:09 --> 00:34:13 to make sure you were housed and to give you health now how you did that and
00:34:13 --> 00:34:15 how it worked where we can argue about that,
00:34:16 --> 00:34:21 but that but that's not necessarily the same same same feeling here and so,
00:34:22 --> 00:34:26 i guess the idea of higher taxes,
00:34:27 --> 00:34:29 is one possibility but,
00:34:30 --> 00:34:35 but it's also where the money goes. If the money's going into the Iranian war
00:34:35 --> 00:34:37 of 43 billion, maybe people aren't agreeing with that so much.
00:34:38 --> 00:34:42 If those higher taxes go into social services, maybe we are.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 Maybe it's training people to be economically independent so there's wealth
00:34:46 --> 00:34:51 in the community and they have their own businesses, that kind of stuff.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:56 But it's a very complex place in the US, I've decided. It's like many countries
00:34:56 --> 00:34:58 in one and where you're from, is it Mississippi?
00:34:59 --> 00:35:02 I know you live in Atlanta, but that's very— I live in Atlanta,
00:35:02 --> 00:35:04 but yeah, I lived in Mississippi for a long, long time.
00:35:06 --> 00:35:09 That's very different from, say, New York, where I live.
00:35:11 --> 00:35:14 I think of that as if it's Italy versus Spain.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:17 You know, they're different. They speak a language, the same.
00:35:17 --> 00:35:21 They have commonalities, but it's very, very different.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:26 So I think there's a lot to do in that regard.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:28 But I see it very much as a top versus bottom thing at this moment.
00:35:28 --> 00:35:32 And then if it gets more elongated, the gap gets even bigger.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:36 I think there's going to be a lot of social unrest that's going to continue
00:35:36 --> 00:35:42 because the circumstances of everybody's daily life is going to get worse.
00:35:43 --> 00:35:48 So you describe your book, which I think is a good description as an audit.
00:35:48 --> 00:35:51 How has government weakened democracy?
00:35:53 --> 00:35:58 Well, this is interesting. I mean, I think every president has always tried
00:35:58 --> 00:36:02 to take more power from Congress. I don't think that's a new thing.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:08 I think the difference with the current Trump administration has been the pace of that.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:13 So if you took Project 2025, which people may be familiar with,
00:36:14 --> 00:36:17 this was a document that the Heritage Foundation, which is a conservative,
00:36:17 --> 00:36:21 fairly right conservative, leading think tank, had written.
00:36:21 --> 00:36:26 And it had written one of these for the nine prior presidential elections, but this one was, whoa,
00:36:27 --> 00:36:31 this had things like a unitary presidency, which means that whereas you had
00:36:31 --> 00:36:35 a balance between the Supreme Court, Congress, and the presidency,
00:36:36 --> 00:36:42 a lot of the powers that was in Congress have been taken on by the executive
00:36:42 --> 00:36:44 and not challenged by Congress, where I think they should do.
00:36:45 --> 00:36:48 In fact, it's kind of interesting. A lot of the people who either got primaried
00:36:48 --> 00:36:53 out or are not standing for election and now voting on their conscience.
00:36:53 --> 00:36:55 This is primarily on the Republican Party.
00:36:56 --> 00:36:59 I thought that's why they went there in the first place, was to vote their conscience
00:36:59 --> 00:37:02 and be the representative of the people. But the people were very afraid.
00:37:04 --> 00:37:10 And I cannot try to put that down because there's a more violent atmosphere.
00:37:12 --> 00:37:16 We do a lot of work through this non-profit, the thing called No Votes Barred,
00:37:16 --> 00:37:20 which is voting rights for people who are called returning citizens.
00:37:20 --> 00:37:23 People have been in prison, they lost their rights, they come out,
00:37:23 --> 00:37:27 they can regain their rights. We work in Georgia, Arizona, North Carolina.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:29 They can regain their rights, they didn't know it.
00:37:29 --> 00:37:35 So we work with the Georgia Justice Project, that's Stacey, Stacey Abrams.
00:37:37 --> 00:37:42 Motherhood Beyond Bars. We have 30 organizations that we partner with in Georgia alone.
00:37:42 --> 00:37:45 We provide a quiz. It takes 11 seconds. 86% of all people can vote.
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 And then we push them across to registration. We don't ask for their names.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:52 It's totally anonymous.
00:37:52 --> 00:37:58 And what's almost more interesting is we get four times that many who have misdemeanors,
00:37:59 --> 00:38:01 who never lost their right to vote, didn't know it. Same, you know,
00:38:01 --> 00:38:03 it takes one second, boom, you're across.
00:38:04 --> 00:38:08 So there's a lot of people who get misinformation or even disinformation,
00:38:08 --> 00:38:12 meaning on purpose, about their right to vote.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:19 So I'm kind of off topic a little bit, but I do want to make the point that
00:38:19 --> 00:38:23 voting is really important as we come up to November the 3rd.
00:38:23 --> 00:38:25 And I'm just going to give you one tip from the book, and then I'll come back to the audit.
00:38:27 --> 00:38:31 Tripling is the best way to get people to vote. Tripling is where you go vote
00:38:31 --> 00:38:34 and you text two friends and say, hey, I just voted, come and vote.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 It's the most effective way to get people to vote. Small in your community.
00:38:39 --> 00:38:43 So coming back to audits, executive presidency, the rule of law,
00:38:44 --> 00:38:49 you may not have noticed this, but the Department of Justice is no longer neutral. It's been weaponized.
00:38:50 --> 00:38:56 None of this was a surprise. It was all in Project 2025. Independent oversight's gone.
00:38:57 --> 00:39:01 I mean, just look at what they're doing to Comey, Letitia James.
00:39:01 --> 00:39:02 I mean, they're just going after anyone.
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06 Omar, the congressperson, they raided her house recently.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:11 Now, I don't necessarily agree with all the policies, but I do agree the fact
00:39:11 --> 00:39:15 that she should be treated in a respectful way in accordance with the law.
00:39:15 --> 00:39:17 I have a law background. I mean, I DJed and I went into music.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:21 But I was the co-chair also of the Grammy Advocacy Committee.
00:39:22 --> 00:39:26 And so I believe in the rule of law. I believe if you're an illegal immigrant,
00:39:27 --> 00:39:32 and you should be deported, whatever, you still have a right to be heard.
00:39:34 --> 00:39:38 By a cause. You can't just be thrown out to some country you never heard of.
00:39:39 --> 00:39:46 So, for me, that's the thing. I'm also very wary of this suppression of freedom
00:39:46 --> 00:39:50 of information where we're threatening people that if they write a story,
00:39:51 --> 00:39:55 that they basically could get thrown in prison or attacked.
00:39:56 --> 00:40:01 The universities are being pushed left, right, and center from Harvard to HSC.
00:40:04 --> 00:40:10 You mentioned one of the podcasts I listened to, you were your homecoming right yes,
00:40:11 --> 00:40:16 hbsc use i mean they're all getting attacked no we're going to use funding as
00:40:16 --> 00:40:20 a as a thing to hold over you and let you change your policies this di stuff
00:40:20 --> 00:40:24 that's now being attacked and got gone away i mean it's just awful,
00:40:24 --> 00:40:27 so for me there's five or six factors,
00:40:27 --> 00:40:31 i could go into others but that's really where the government,
00:40:31 --> 00:40:36 has been been pushed through the Trump administration in,
00:40:36 --> 00:40:45 2025, where the people that used to be in his first positions of power had experience and opinions.
00:40:46 --> 00:40:47 Now I think you have a thing where.
00:40:50 --> 00:40:52 It's basically what they call, I think I'm going to get this right,
00:40:52 --> 00:40:56 a kikiocracy. People are loyal, but they're not very competent.
00:40:57 --> 00:40:58 And I think we can see that a lot of the time.
00:40:59 --> 00:41:03 And so I think that's the first thing where government has changed.
00:41:03 --> 00:41:07 And government has reduced, as we know, by about 20%, which I'm not actually
00:41:07 --> 00:41:09 against government reducing.
00:41:09 --> 00:41:13 It's more the experience that's gone, the people have been put in position instead.
00:41:14 --> 00:41:15 That kind of thing worries me.
00:41:16 --> 00:41:19 So that's the first part of the audit. And the second part of it is,
00:41:19 --> 00:41:21 well, how does that affect me as an individual?
00:41:22 --> 00:41:24 Like, hey, that's government. Well, that doesn't really have much to do with
00:41:24 --> 00:41:28 me. But of course it does. It means that the news, like you were talking about
00:41:28 --> 00:41:32 earlier, the news that I get is filtered.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:35 Not because the government is saying to me, you can't write this.
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 We're not at that stage yet. I'm not suggesting we're an authoritarian country,
00:41:40 --> 00:41:45 but there's a slide going on so if i'm thinking to myself oh,
00:41:45 --> 00:41:51 i i'm kind of self-censoring i shouldn't be able i should be able to write this
00:41:51 --> 00:41:54 but i'm not going to do that because i might get my paper in trouble i might
00:41:54 --> 00:41:56 get a threat from somebody,
00:41:56 --> 00:42:00 it's serious there's a lot of journalists that don't want to write certain certain things now.
00:42:02 --> 00:42:07 So that's the kind of that kind of thing's going on and then there's as i mentioned
00:42:07 --> 00:42:10 before with the economic area i can't participate,
00:42:11 --> 00:42:15 because i don't have the time i don't have the money i have other priorities
00:42:15 --> 00:42:18 i.e my family and putting food on the table,
00:42:18 --> 00:42:22 though that economic you know you can talk about oh we're making billions in
00:42:22 --> 00:42:27 oil revenues you know what that doesn't doesn't put food on my on my place i
00:42:27 --> 00:42:29 mean it's it's really weird at the moment but,
00:42:30 --> 00:42:34 So I think there's lots of things that permeate down into everyday life.
00:42:34 --> 00:42:37 Job opportunities, for example.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:41 So that's really what I talk about in order. It's like how we affect it.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:44 Now, of course, that book was written six months ago.
00:42:45 --> 00:42:48 It was almost difficult to know when to stop because things were happening every
00:42:48 --> 00:42:49 hour, not even every day.
00:42:50 --> 00:42:52 And so it was difficult. At some point, you've got to say stop.
00:42:52 --> 00:42:58 But the website is obviously up to date with organizations and who you can go to.
00:42:59 --> 00:43:02 And and you know we have organizations say like in voting which is obviously
00:43:02 --> 00:43:05 something very top of mind at the moment,
00:43:05 --> 00:43:11 we we have things like faith in action which is which is what it sounds like,
00:43:11 --> 00:43:14 but we have things about individual expression.
00:43:16 --> 00:43:21 Excuse me it's the uh it's the british coal coming back there from my trip so
00:43:21 --> 00:43:24 we have we have you know the foundation for individual rights and expression
00:43:24 --> 00:43:28 called FIRE, which some people may say is center or center right.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:32 They do great work. They protected people that Trump's gone after.
00:43:32 --> 00:43:35 They've gone after Harvard for having no freedom of speech and then protected
00:43:35 --> 00:43:37 it when Trump went after them.
00:43:37 --> 00:43:41 You'll find an organization that fits you on Commit Together, and it's updated.
00:43:42 --> 00:43:44 Actually, as we talk, we're reviewing every one of those organizations,
00:43:45 --> 00:43:48 and maybe one out of 25 or 30 actually makes it.
00:43:48 --> 00:43:51 You won't find loads and loads, but you'll find some really good quality.
00:43:51 --> 00:43:55 It's like going to a good restaurant and knowing that you can trust the reviews.
00:43:55 --> 00:44:00 Okay. Basically. So that's what we're doing at the moment, yeah. Yeah.
00:44:01 --> 00:44:07 I think the lady I've had on, I think she is the president of Faith in Action.
00:44:07 --> 00:44:10 I think I've had her on a couple of times.
00:44:11 --> 00:44:17 So you state in different chapters that voting rights, civil liberties,
00:44:17 --> 00:44:20 democratic institutions, and education matter.
00:44:21 --> 00:44:23 Which one matters the most?
00:44:24 --> 00:44:27 Well, that is asking which one is your favorite kid, right?
00:44:29 --> 00:44:33 Given where we are in this year and it's an election year, I'm going to say
00:44:33 --> 00:44:38 voting rights matter the most for now.
00:44:39 --> 00:44:42 Because a lot of the other stuff derives from there.
00:44:42 --> 00:44:48 So if I can't elect the people that I want to represent me, whether it's in
00:44:48 --> 00:44:55 my city, my state, or my country, then I'm in real trouble.
00:44:55 --> 00:45:01 And a lot of the tendency, especially for this election, has been for our elected
00:45:01 --> 00:45:07 or our leaders to choose the voters rather than the voters to choose the leaders.
00:45:07 --> 00:45:08 And we've seen that in Texas.
00:45:08 --> 00:45:15 Where basically we've disenfranchised millions of people or texas has disenfranchised
00:45:16 --> 00:45:18 by changing voting districts where,
00:45:19 --> 00:45:24 i'm hearing this i don't but but where the you know usually for one congress
00:45:24 --> 00:45:27 person it's about 700 000 people that they represent i'm hearing,
00:45:28 --> 00:45:34 that that in that in texas i think it's 20 and 22 the districts that basically
00:45:34 --> 00:45:37 that the white population has got a much lower ratio.
00:45:37 --> 00:45:40 Latino has got much higher than that, and the black population has got way higher
00:45:40 --> 00:45:43 than that. And so you've disenfranchised people.
00:45:45 --> 00:45:49 So the gerrymandering is going on. Both sides are doing it. You've got,
00:45:51 --> 00:45:57 People wiping people's names from voting registers, asking for identifications,
00:45:57 --> 00:46:00 that if it went through, which it hasn't yet, but they're going to keep trying,
00:46:00 --> 00:46:05 would disenfranchise millions, just like we've taken away healthcare for a million.
00:46:05 --> 00:46:11 So for me so for me i think voting is really really important because what people
00:46:11 --> 00:46:14 i think don't necessarily get especially younger people who are very socially
00:46:14 --> 00:46:17 active i'm talking about 35 and below.
00:46:18 --> 00:46:21 Is that they're very socially active,
00:46:22 --> 00:46:26 with education or my local banks or volunteer food banks i mean volunteering
00:46:26 --> 00:46:31 or community banks i guess as well but they they don't necessarily see the politicians
00:46:31 --> 00:46:34 and policy having an impact on their world.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:40 But if you don't have good policies, you don't get good communities.
00:46:41 --> 00:46:44 And so I think it's important to get them involved. In New York,
00:46:44 --> 00:46:47 Mandami stimulated the young people through social media.
00:46:48 --> 00:46:50 I think we can see a lot of that happening now.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:55 So hopefully we'll get more young people to vote and more people involved in
00:46:55 --> 00:46:59 the democratic process and commit together is to try and get people to participate,
00:46:59 --> 00:47:03 and you know what i found as i did the research for this which i thought was
00:47:03 --> 00:47:09 particularly interesting is what they call roll-off so you go into so you're
00:47:09 --> 00:47:10 actually in the voting booth,
00:47:11 --> 00:47:14 you you've been a representative i know you've been you've been elected representative,
00:47:15 --> 00:47:19 you go in the voting booth you vote for your president you vote for your congress
00:47:19 --> 00:47:23 you know senate and house and then you say, yeah, I'm done.
00:47:23 --> 00:47:27 I'm not going to go down ballot to the people who are my state representatives
00:47:27 --> 00:47:31 in, say, the Senate or whatever particular legislative chamber you have.
00:47:32 --> 00:47:37 40% of people do that, actually, majority being Democrat, because they just
00:47:37 --> 00:47:42 don't know or they don't really understand it or they haven't had the time or paid attention.
00:47:42 --> 00:47:49 That has huge impacts because Pennsylvania, for example, the state legislative chamber.
00:47:51 --> 00:47:55 Majority was decided by 76 votes on one seat. 40 votes may have been cast
00:47:55 --> 00:47:58 in that particular area, but that's what happened.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:03 And so it's really important you vote down ballot, whoever you vote for,
00:48:03 --> 00:48:09 but economic policies, where the money goes, where taxes are paid.
00:48:09 --> 00:48:14 And obviously things like social issues like gender, women's rights,
00:48:14 --> 00:48:17 et cetera, are also affected.
00:48:17 --> 00:48:21 I mean, look at some of the laws that have gone through that have criminalized
00:48:21 --> 00:48:25 abortion, which in my personal view, I don't agree with.
00:48:25 --> 00:48:30 But in some, they're very extreme and they've cost women's lives when they should
00:48:30 --> 00:48:31 have had medical assistance.
00:48:31 --> 00:48:36 So I think it's really important that we vote. Once you've voted and you're,
00:48:37 --> 00:48:41 kind of back into the system, the years in between, if you like,
00:48:42 --> 00:48:45 then I think education is really, really important.
00:48:45 --> 00:48:50 The more educated we are, the better we're going to make decisions the better
00:48:50 --> 00:48:56 chance we've got of getting out of economic poverty but not by itself i mean i think it's a whole,
00:48:56 --> 00:49:01 a whole combination of different factors such as economic justice health care,
00:49:01 --> 00:49:04 then you then i think i think those things are all,
00:49:04 --> 00:49:10 it's really boils down to what's your passion you know if you really feel like,
00:49:11 --> 00:49:14 i'll give an example we we might have done a campaign.
00:49:15 --> 00:49:19 Do with education. So I'll look for a popular person.
00:49:22 --> 00:49:24 Whose parents might have been a teacher, or they were a teacher.
00:49:25 --> 00:49:26 What are they passionate about?
00:49:27 --> 00:49:31 I'll give you a very small example, preserving Nina Simone's childhood home.
00:49:31 --> 00:49:35 We all love, I'm assuming, Nina Simone, one of my all-time favorites.
00:49:36 --> 00:49:40 So we look there at preserving this home, which is a very small home in Tryon, North Carolina.
00:49:41 --> 00:49:45 So we looked at people who love her music and people who love her civil rights work.
00:49:46 --> 00:49:51 We went out to people like John Legend, Cat Stevens, Misty Copeland,
00:49:51 --> 00:49:53 Barry Jenkins, the film director.
00:49:54 --> 00:49:56 And they all do this for nothing, but they're passionate about music,
00:49:56 --> 00:49:58 they're passionate about human rights.
00:49:59 --> 00:50:04 And so we got that campaign together. That's a very small scale one.
00:50:04 --> 00:50:06 The worldwide polio one I mentioned earlier is a bigger one.
00:50:07 --> 00:50:13 We did a whole thing about preserving black architecture with the African-American
00:50:13 --> 00:50:14 Cultural Heritage Action fund.
00:50:15 --> 00:50:20 But you have to find the reason we get so many influencers, celebrities,
00:50:20 --> 00:50:21 very, very well-known people.
00:50:22 --> 00:50:27 To basically participate for nothing is because they're passionate about it.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:33 My number one probably was I work with a hospital in Haiti a lot called St.
00:50:33 --> 00:50:34 Damien's. It's a children's hospital.
00:50:36 --> 00:50:41 After several years, we got Beyonce to go there as part of a UN visit. This is 10 years ago now.
00:50:42 --> 00:50:47 She's passionate about kids. She's not very overt about it publicly, but she does great work.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:52 There are thousands of influencers that do that under the radar.
00:50:52 --> 00:50:57 They're not doing it for gratification so if you if you take that to us normal
00:50:57 --> 00:51:00 folk basically you find people,
00:51:01 --> 00:51:05 you find their passion and they connect you know if my children are going through
00:51:05 --> 00:51:08 elementary school i'm going to be interested in education,
00:51:08 --> 00:51:15 if i'm if my mom just was in hospital i don't know an operation or cancer treatment
00:51:15 --> 00:51:18 i'm going to be interested in that and i want to do what's going to help if
00:51:18 --> 00:51:20 unfortunately i have a kid,
00:51:21 --> 00:51:25 through suicide is no longer with us i'm going to be interested in mental health
00:51:25 --> 00:51:28 and suicide prevention and i unfortunately have friends in all those categories
00:51:28 --> 00:51:33 so i think find your passion and follow it and i don't think it's just for civil
00:51:33 --> 00:51:34 participation i think life is better with it it,
00:51:35 --> 00:51:39 makes color and joy come come to us yeah.
00:51:40 --> 00:51:44 So we're basically out of time so there's a couple of questions i'm going to,
00:51:45 --> 00:51:50 pass on one of the things I wanted about the PATH framework and the pillars of power.
00:51:51 --> 00:51:55 But if people get your book, they can find out about that.
00:51:56 --> 00:52:01 Outside of voting in every election, I think you were heading down that path.
00:52:01 --> 00:52:04 How can citizens be engaged in the political process?
00:52:05 --> 00:52:08 Well, I think that I'm going to broaden it to civic participation,
00:52:08 --> 00:52:11 not just politics, because I think politics sometimes turns people off.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:14 I think it's how can you make your community a better place,
00:52:15 --> 00:52:18 I think take the first step. There's this Chinese philosopher I like a lot called
00:52:19 --> 00:52:23 Lao Tzu who says the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
00:52:25 --> 00:52:30 Take the step. CommitTogether.org is a really simple way of just looking and
00:52:30 --> 00:52:34 finding an organization that fits your particular values where you can participate.
00:52:34 --> 00:52:41 So if you go to Brave Angels Network, you'll find a chapter in your community.
00:52:41 --> 00:52:46 If you go to Faith in Action, you'll find a way to get involved in voting rights
00:52:46 --> 00:52:49 with your community, either online or in person.
00:52:49 --> 00:52:54 There's loads of those kinds of opportunities, and then you'll find like-minded
00:52:54 --> 00:52:57 people. And we're not going to be the only source, but we're trying to make
00:52:57 --> 00:52:59 it really, really simple for people.
00:53:00 --> 00:53:07 Yeah, it's pretty. You just kind of get going. Just take the first step would be my hope.
00:53:08 --> 00:53:15 Okay. So my challenge to every guest is to finish this sentence.
00:53:16 --> 00:53:17 I have hope because.
00:53:18 --> 00:53:25 That's such a good question. I have hope because there are innately many more
00:53:25 --> 00:53:31 good people in the world than bystanders and people that do bad things.
00:53:31 --> 00:53:37 And that's been seen throughout history as we are, despite what we may think,
00:53:37 --> 00:53:41 in a much better place in terms of child mortality, violence,
00:53:41 --> 00:53:43 than we were 50 or 100 years ago.
00:53:44 --> 00:53:48 Now, I'm not happy with where we are by any means, and it's difficult to live through, of course.
00:53:48 --> 00:53:51 And we've all had, I don't know, I'm going to say all of us,
00:53:51 --> 00:53:54 but I personally had family tragedies as a result of violence.
00:53:55 --> 00:53:59 But I think we're on the right path. And I do believe in.
00:54:00 --> 00:54:07 To King and Gandhi and those folk, that we're innately good and that we will overcome. So.
00:54:09 --> 00:54:14 That's my hope and my belief in hope. So Paul Katz, first of all,
00:54:14 --> 00:54:19 it's been an honor to talk to you and to have you on the podcast.
00:54:19 --> 00:54:23 If people want to reach out to you, if people want to get a copy of the book,
00:54:23 --> 00:54:28 if people want to get involved with the Commit Together initiative, how can they do that?
00:54:28 --> 00:54:31 Well first of all thanks very much for your podcast i've enjoyed listening to
00:54:31 --> 00:54:34 a lot of them so that's very cool work that you're doing,
00:54:35 --> 00:54:39 for the for the for the book if you if you go to paul m cats.com which is my
00:54:39 --> 00:54:44 website just send me an email there's different resources you can also download
00:54:44 --> 00:54:49 about how to get engaged that are for free the first five chapters of my book are on there for free,
00:54:50 --> 00:54:55 i'm not really it's not really the idea of selling it it's more a tool to get people engaged.
00:54:55 --> 00:54:59 And so if you info me, I can send you a free copy. I'm happy to do that for
00:54:59 --> 00:55:01 the first, say, couple of hundred people.
00:55:01 --> 00:55:06 In fact, the first five days that the book came out, we gave away 2.
00:55:06 --> 00:55:11 So it's not necessarily a money thing for me at all. It's a get you involved thing.
00:55:12 --> 00:55:15 And then if you want to continue, or you don't want to read the book because
00:55:15 --> 00:55:19 people don't have that much time, I understand that, go to committogether.org,
00:55:19 --> 00:55:21 spend the five minutes, and you'll find something that works for you.
00:55:22 --> 00:55:26 Okay. Well, Paul, again, I thank you for doing this.
00:55:27 --> 00:55:29 One of the rules I have is that.
00:55:30 --> 00:55:34 Once you've been on the show, you have an open invitation to come back.
00:55:35 --> 00:55:38 And so I would, I would love for you to, to do that.
00:55:38 --> 00:55:44 I have a feeling that, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna be doing some stuff
00:55:44 --> 00:55:47 where it's like, Eric, I might need a platform or, you know,
00:55:47 --> 00:55:49 let's, we, we need to talk.
00:55:50 --> 00:55:54 And I'd be more than willing to do that for you. Thank you. Yeah.
00:55:55 --> 00:56:03 And I, you know, and you're not, you know, the first, I remember I had John Lee Hooker Jr.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:10 On, and he said, I got to be the first Grammy winner to be on your podcast.
00:56:10 --> 00:56:12 I said, actually, sir, you're not.
00:56:14 --> 00:56:20 I said, I've actually had a couple now with you, especially with your work with
00:56:20 --> 00:56:22 music and the Grammys and stuff.
00:56:22 --> 00:56:27 You know, a lot of people say, well, why would you have these people on?
00:56:27 --> 00:56:32 And it's like, if you listen to the interviews, you know that everything that
00:56:32 --> 00:56:36 we do has political or civic component to it.
00:56:37 --> 00:56:44 And the fact that you've taken the extra step to try to get fellow citizens
00:56:44 --> 00:56:46 engaged, I think is remarkable.
00:56:47 --> 00:56:52 I am glad that your people reached out to me to invite you on.
00:56:52 --> 00:56:56 And I look forward to not only having you back on the podcast,
00:56:56 --> 00:57:02 but watching you work in the community. So again, I just thank you for coming on the show.
00:57:03 --> 00:57:07 Thank you so much. And I would just say that the power of music and culture
00:57:07 --> 00:57:11 to make behavior change and policy change should not be underestimated.
00:57:12 --> 00:57:16 It's a big thing. And I've seen it work in South Africa where we had a label
00:57:16 --> 00:57:22 called jive africa which is an anti-apartheid label i've seen it across the world so,
00:57:22 --> 00:57:28 art makes change and and i'm so grateful for you for having me and i'd be delighted
00:57:28 --> 00:57:32 when i've got something to say that may be helpful to to to your listeners to
00:57:32 --> 00:57:34 come back thank you so much.
00:57:35 --> 00:57:38 Yes sir all right guys and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
00:57:59 --> 00:58:04 All right, we are back. And so it's time for my next guest, Juliet Faithful.
00:58:05 --> 00:58:11 Juliet Faithful is a Spanish-British-American writer who grew up in Brazil.
00:58:11 --> 00:58:18 She was awarded a fellowship to the Novel Incubator Program at Boston's Grub Street.
00:58:18 --> 00:58:25 And her debut novel, Liar's Dice, was a winner of the 2024 Irish Writers' Center's
00:58:26 --> 00:58:33 Novel Fair, as well as a semi-finalist for the James Jones First Novel Fellowship.
00:58:33 --> 00:58:38 It was recently published by Jenna Bush Hager's imprint, Thousand Voices,
00:58:38 --> 00:58:40 in partnership with Random House.
00:58:40 --> 00:58:44 A graduate of Harvard University and Smith College School for Social Work,
00:58:45 --> 00:58:50 Faithful works as a trilingual psychotherapist and lives in Cambridge,
00:58:50 --> 00:58:52 Massachusetts with her two sons.
00:58:52 --> 00:58:57 Ladies and gentlemen, It is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:58:57 --> 00:59:00 on this podcast, Juliet Faithful.
00:59:11 --> 00:59:16 All right. Juliet Faithful. How are you doing, ma'am? You doing good?
00:59:16 --> 00:59:18 I'm doing well. Thank you, Eric. Good morning.
00:59:19 --> 00:59:23 Well, good morning to you, too. Really, really happy to have you on.
00:59:23 --> 00:59:31 For those of you who are followers of the podcast or those of you who are new,
00:59:32 --> 00:59:38 I don't do a whole lot of fiction stuff on here, but Liar's Dice is an exception.
00:59:39 --> 00:59:44 And I'm really, really glad to talk to you about this book because you relate
00:59:44 --> 00:59:48 some, you know, there's some things that are very relatable, some challenges.
00:59:50 --> 00:59:57 That people have in real life that needs to be addressed. And it's a great story.
00:59:58 --> 01:00:03 It's a great story. And I understand it took you a long time to write it. So you can see it.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:07 You can see the detail in that as you read the book.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:15 So, Juliette, this is how I normally start off the podcast. I do a couple of icebreakers.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:20 So the first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.
01:00:20 --> 01:00:26 Okay. And the quote is, a bend in the road is not the end of the road unless
01:00:26 --> 01:00:28 you fail to make the turn.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:34 Oh, I love that. That could be like the outline of any novel, you know.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:38 I think my character has that bend in the road.
01:00:38 --> 01:00:44 She's born identical twins, and she wakes up, and she has a disabled twin sister,
01:00:45 --> 01:00:50 and she wakes up one day to find her sister gone, and she's been sent away to an institution.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:56 And that's a moment where there's a bend in the road, and she really needs to figure out how to be.
01:00:56 --> 01:01:01 She thinks of herself as not whole. She's like half a person in some ways,
01:01:01 --> 01:01:03 and she needs to figure out how
01:01:03 --> 01:01:08 to continue and how to fight to find her sister and get her sister back.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:14 So I feel like that's a moment where the band turns her into a different direction
01:01:14 --> 01:01:19 and her, I think her identity is forever changed at that moment.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:25 All right. So my next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:30 So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:36 Seven. All right. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,
01:01:36 --> 01:01:39 current events, health, etc.?
01:01:40 --> 01:01:45 I love radio and podcasts, too. I love listening, too. I don't watch tons of
01:01:45 --> 01:01:49 television, but I really love to listen to voices.
01:01:49 --> 01:01:54 It used to be that you would go out to a local bar or something and have a political
01:01:54 --> 01:01:57 discussion, but those things happen less these days.
01:01:58 --> 01:02:04 So I think radio and podcasts are a wonderful way to sort of collect information
01:02:04 --> 01:02:07 and even explore differences.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:16 Yeah, Barr, I used to, when I first, when I was involved in politics,
01:02:16 --> 01:02:23 when the O'Reilly factor came on, I used to say that Bill O'Reilly was the guy
01:02:23 --> 01:02:26 at the end of the bar just always spouting off some opinion.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:31 And, you know, and then somebody would engage him and it's like,
01:02:31 --> 01:02:35 oh, okay, everybody grab the beer, let's get some nuts, let's go listen to this,
01:02:35 --> 01:02:35 you know what I'm saying?
01:02:36 --> 01:02:42 And nowadays, it might not be a safe place to have those discussions.
01:02:43 --> 01:02:47 But I get what you're saying. Or like a restaurant. So, you know,
01:02:47 --> 01:02:53 like I'm thinking outdoor little places in Brazil or in Spain where people discuss politics a lot.
01:02:53 --> 01:02:58 Well, it's probably a lot safer. Well, maybe not Brazil, but it's probably a lot safer in Spain.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:02 Might be a little safer in Spain and in Brazil, the United States.
01:03:02 --> 01:03:07 Yeah, I think Brazil and the United States have some bad parallels,
01:03:07 --> 01:03:13 I think. That's exactly right. All right. So what is Liar's Dice and why did
01:03:13 --> 01:03:15 you use that as the title?
01:03:15 --> 01:03:20 I really wanted to capture sort of the precarious reality that Dolores,
01:03:20 --> 01:03:22 my main character, is growing up in.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:25 It's set in 1970s Brazil.
01:03:25 --> 01:03:28 It's the height of the military dictatorship.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:36 And her sister has disappeared. And in Rio at that time, there was a dictatorship.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:38 There was repression. People disappeared.
01:03:38 --> 01:03:44 So there was a lot of covering up, a lot of stories. And Liar's Dice is a poker game.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:50 And it's a lot about bluffing and luck. And the family are bluffing too.
01:03:51 --> 01:03:55 The parents don't talk to Dolores. They just send the sister away.
01:03:55 --> 01:03:57 And then it's as if she never existed.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:01 They don't talk about their grief. So that's secret.
01:04:01 --> 01:04:05 The mother is illiterate, and she hides that.
01:04:05 --> 01:04:11 And at that time in Rio, half the country were illiterate. So it wasn't unusual,
01:04:11 --> 01:04:13 but it's a secret that she hides.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:20 And the father too just has a high school education and he hides that. So the grief is hidden.
01:04:20 --> 01:04:22 It's like a poker game. They're pretending to be...
01:04:23 --> 01:04:30 Moved to the big city from rural Brazil, and they're trying to make a go and go up in the world.
01:04:30 --> 01:04:35 And then the country itself is a bluffing game because Brazil was,
01:04:35 --> 01:04:40 it's 1970s, there was Pelé, there was Bossa Nova, Carnival.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:46 The images of Brazil at the time is this just very kind of sophisticated, fun country.
01:04:46 --> 01:04:52 It was kind of economic boom, but 68% of the people were, the poverty rate was
01:04:52 --> 01:04:56 68% and more than half the country was illiterate.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:01 So there was these huge disparities, but the government kind of put out an image
01:05:01 --> 01:05:08 of sophistication and joy and, you know, the kind of image of Brazil that a
01:05:08 --> 01:05:11 lot of, I think, America and Europe had at the time.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:16 So there were a lot of secrets that people know about Chile and Argentina,
01:05:16 --> 01:05:20 but there was a lot of repression, a lot of torture and censorship in Brazil,
01:05:21 --> 01:05:24 and it was sort of held secret.
01:05:25 --> 01:05:29 So I thought Myers-Dyce captured that sort of the bluffing of the country and
01:05:29 --> 01:05:31 this particular family.
01:05:31 --> 01:05:35 Yeah, because you're exactly right. Because when I was growing up,
01:05:35 --> 01:05:39 Pelé, you know, it's like, oh, he's from Brazil. OK, so it's like whenever the
01:05:39 --> 01:05:42 World Cup was happening, it's like, all right, Brazil's going to win because
01:05:42 --> 01:05:43 they got that dude, right?
01:05:44 --> 01:05:47 Right. He was like an ambassador for Brazil.
01:05:47 --> 01:05:52 Right. And then he ended up being an ambassador for soccer or football.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:54 Whichever part of the world you live in.
01:05:55 --> 01:05:58 He was he was an ambassador for the sport overall but,
01:05:59 --> 01:06:03 yeah that was the image you know kind of everybody's like you know oh man i'm
01:06:03 --> 01:06:07 gonna save some money so i can go to carnival what is carnival it's like you know
01:06:07 --> 01:06:10 bro we're going down to new orleans for mardi gras is that the same thing he
01:06:10 --> 01:06:15 said no no it's different okay whatever so you know but that like you said it
01:06:15 --> 01:06:17 was always that image and then,
01:06:18 --> 01:06:22 when the olympics even as i became an adult and they had the olympics in rio
01:06:22 --> 01:06:23 everybody was talking about,
01:06:24 --> 01:06:28 oh wow man this is gonna be off the chain you know they it's like i think that
01:06:28 --> 01:06:32 was the first one they had golf and it was just like and that's that's always
01:06:32 --> 01:06:37 been the image of brazil with you know with the jesus statue and all i mean right,
01:06:37 --> 01:06:40 yeah so it's like everybody's like oh i gotta go down there,
01:06:41 --> 01:06:46 but you know when michael jackson did his video and a few others and you know
01:06:46 --> 01:06:51 and you started doing it's like hey man the kids are riding on top of of trains
01:06:51 --> 01:06:54 what are they doing You know, there are no rules.
01:06:54 --> 01:07:00 Wait a minute. Hold on. Something's not jiving. So, yeah, I get the analogy.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:03 But, you know, America's the same way.
01:07:04 --> 01:07:10 We bluff to the rest of the world. That's for sure. I mean, you know,
01:07:10 --> 01:07:12 it's a place of opportunity. I believe the bluff.
01:07:13 --> 01:07:15 I got you. I got you. All right.
01:07:17 --> 01:07:22 I got you. So you you've already got to summarize the book, even though this
01:07:22 --> 01:07:26 was a work of fiction. How close is this story to your real life?
01:07:27 --> 01:07:32 It really isn't close to my life in terms of what happens, the plot.
01:07:32 --> 01:07:34 Nothing that happens in the book happened to me.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:38 But it was inspired by my own situation.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:44 I am a twin. I was actually born triplets, but I have an identical twin sister,
01:07:44 --> 01:07:50 who had cerebral palsy and epilepsy and was sent to an institution.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:57 I was younger than my main character. I was nine when she was sent away. And so that is real.
01:07:57 --> 01:08:03 And the kind of the literacy aspect, which is another theme of this novel, is literacy.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:07 That part was also inspired by my real life because my mother is illiterate,
01:08:07 --> 01:08:10 and I didn't go to school or read or write till I was 10.
01:08:10 --> 01:08:14 So this novel is really about sort of a journey to selfhood,
01:08:14 --> 01:08:19 but also a journey to literacy and political awakening, because in her quest
01:08:19 --> 01:08:21 to find her sister, Dolores, sort of.
01:08:22 --> 01:08:26 Bumps into characters that kind of live on the margin, the poor part of Rio.
01:08:27 --> 01:08:32 And she runs into the repression of the government and people who have been
01:08:32 --> 01:08:37 tortured. And so it's a little bit of a, it's a coming of age on many levels for her.
01:08:38 --> 01:08:46 So why did you, I understood based on what you just said about the parallel
01:08:46 --> 01:08:49 with your, you know, with your mom and the mom and the character.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:53 But why did you give Dolores the challenge of being illiterate?
01:08:53 --> 01:08:58 Because I myself started school at the age of 10 and didn't know how to read
01:08:58 --> 01:08:59 and write or tell the time.
01:08:59 --> 01:09:03 And I was put in a British school with all these British kids.
01:09:03 --> 01:09:07 And I had never been. I grew up in rural Brazil like Dolores.
01:09:07 --> 01:09:11 So I'd never really been with English people except for my dad,
01:09:11 --> 01:09:14 who was the only English person I had ever met.
01:09:14 --> 01:09:18 And so I remember really struggling with that.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:25 And the shame of that. And I hid it too. And my mom still hides it. She's illiterate.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:31 And I had some conflict about writing it that way because I'm in a way outing her.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:35 She isn't in America and she won't read the book, obviously.
01:09:35 --> 01:09:37 And she has Alzheimer's. So I feel like.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:44 Not. She won't run into this, but I do feel like I was talking about something
01:09:44 --> 01:09:45 that wasn't allowed to be talked about.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:50 And, you know, in my work, I also work as a psychotherapist.
01:09:50 --> 01:09:53 I've run into illiterate people in this country, you know,
01:09:53 --> 01:09:57 who work and, you know, I used to work at Polaroid and who work in the company
01:09:57 --> 01:10:02 and two jobs, but couldn't, would get into trouble because they couldn't read
01:10:02 --> 01:10:06 instructions and, you know, the shame and hiding about that.
01:10:06 --> 01:10:11 So I think literacy is still, it still exists, but the people aren't going to
01:10:11 --> 01:10:14 go around talking about it because it's shameful.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:21 Yeah. So did you, how did your profession as a psychotherapist influence this book?
01:10:21 --> 01:10:28 Were you able to draw when you were depicting Dolores' struggles?
01:10:28 --> 01:10:31 Were you drawing from conversations you would have with clients?
01:10:31 --> 01:10:35 Were you drawing from your personal feelings when you were young?
01:10:36 --> 01:10:41 Because I saw somewhere where you said that the first nine years of your life was kind of a blur.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:47 Yeah. So I didn't think you were really drawing,
01:10:47 --> 01:10:54 from that aspect of it, but maybe with some of the clients having to deal with
01:10:54 --> 01:10:59 the shame of being illiterate, you were able to pull and create this feeling,
01:11:00 --> 01:11:01 that Dolores was...
01:11:02 --> 01:11:08 Experiencing? Honestly, I really didn't use my professional work at all.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:12 I think I used my own experience because I was pretty close to it,
01:11:13 --> 01:11:15 you know, both in my own family and in myself.
01:11:16 --> 01:11:22 But I think my work as a therapist probably helps me write characters with more
01:11:22 --> 01:11:28 emotion and attunement, you know, so I use the same muscle for writing that I use as a therapist.
01:11:29 --> 01:11:32 But I think growing up where the way I grew up with so many,
01:11:32 --> 01:11:36 I mean, all my friends, a lot of my friends didn't go to school growing up.
01:11:36 --> 01:11:38 I don't remember it well. You're right.
01:11:39 --> 01:11:43 I think when my sister was sent away, I have what's called psychic amnesia.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:47 I just don't remember my childhood. Like I went back to the village in Brazil,
01:11:48 --> 01:11:52 where I grew up and I couldn't, I went to house to house looking for where I might have lived.
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56 And my younger sister, like I took some photos and she goes,
01:11:56 --> 01:12:01 he was standing right in front. She remembers everything, but I just don't remember.
01:12:01 --> 01:12:06 My life was my sister. So in the novel, the scenes in the interior of Brazil
01:12:06 --> 01:12:10 were pretty much fabricated or invented.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:14 But I did find out when I went back that some of it was true.
01:12:15 --> 01:12:20 So there must be some kind of underground memory that remains.
01:12:20 --> 01:12:26 And I kind of drew on that. Whatever the unconscious is, I sort of viewed that. Okay.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:30 So I was trying to figure out how I was going to ask this question.
01:12:30 --> 01:12:36 So if you were introducing Dolores to a group of your friends,
01:12:36 --> 01:12:37 how would you introduce her?
01:12:38 --> 01:12:42 I would say that she's feisty. She is watchful.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:46 Like, I think there's a line in the novel saying, I'm a watchful girl.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:48 So she kind of looks around. She's kind
01:12:48 --> 01:12:52 of maybe hypervigilant would be a therapeutic word that one might use.
01:12:53 --> 01:12:58 She doesn't trust easily. I think she befriends Andrea and that,
01:12:59 --> 01:13:03 you know, her friendship with Andrea really helps her grow into being more courageous
01:13:03 --> 01:13:06 and kind of putting her feelings into action.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:12 But I would say she is loyal, a fighter, a real fighter.
01:13:13 --> 01:13:18 And she ends up, you know, gambling and getting into trouble in the streets
01:13:18 --> 01:13:21 of Rio, trying to get her sister back.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:27 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she got somebody fired.
01:13:27 --> 01:13:29 What was the—I can't remember.
01:13:30 --> 01:13:35 A body fever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because she stole the ring because that was
01:13:35 --> 01:13:40 her quest to try to get her sister out. She was going to go get some money some kind of way.
01:13:41 --> 01:13:46 Yeah, yeah, she is loyal. She's fierce. There's no doubt about that.
01:13:46 --> 01:13:48 Fierce is a good word, yeah.
01:13:48 --> 01:13:52 And also like faulty. I mean, her understanding of the world,
01:13:52 --> 01:13:56 she's 12. You know, probably girls think they're adults, so there's a lot.
01:13:56 --> 01:14:00 She thinks she knows it all, and she knows some of it. Like she knows that the
01:14:00 --> 01:14:05 grief is wrong and she knows a lot, but she gets a lot of things wrong, too.
01:14:05 --> 01:14:09 And I wanted her to be sort of unreliable in the way 12-year-olds are.
01:14:10 --> 01:14:13 Yeah, well, 12-year-olds, as you know from your professional work,
01:14:13 --> 01:14:18 that, you know, that was something I had to learn in my political work and working
01:14:18 --> 01:14:20 with juvenile justice and stuff. It's like...
01:14:21 --> 01:14:26 You know, 12 years, you know, everybody just thinks of development about babies.
01:14:26 --> 01:14:30 And they don't consider that when you're making a transition from childhood
01:14:30 --> 01:14:33 to adulthood, that's a development phase, too.
01:14:34 --> 01:14:38 And so 12 is that year where it's like. It really is. I chose it on purpose
01:14:38 --> 01:14:40 because it's an intense year.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:44 Because you really have one foot in, you know, adulthood and one foot in childhood.
01:14:45 --> 01:14:50 And so it's a very tricky time to be a person. I mean, I remember being 12 and
01:14:50 --> 01:14:54 I have kids. I remember them being 12, you know, it really is,
01:14:54 --> 01:14:56 there's a lot to navigate.
01:14:56 --> 01:15:00 Oh, yeah. Because seeing the world and the injustice in particular,
01:15:00 --> 01:15:06 I think 12-year-olds are moral, moral truth tellers, but they also are very black and white.
01:15:06 --> 01:15:11 And they see things very, like, starkly, like, this is wrong, this is right.
01:15:11 --> 01:15:16 And in that way, they can be beacons for change, you know.
01:15:17 --> 01:15:22 But in other ways, they might not know the kind of complexities that are involved,
01:15:22 --> 01:15:25 in adult decisions. Yeah. So.
01:15:27 --> 01:15:33 I used to be, well, I did some substitute teaching, but I taught one year at a boarding school.
01:15:33 --> 01:15:40 And then in my role as a legislator, we used to have a legislative day at schools.
01:15:40 --> 01:15:46 And so some years, you know, I would go to the middle school, right? Right.
01:15:47 --> 01:15:55 So, and I taught social studies from second grade to sixth grade at the boarding school.
01:15:56 --> 01:16:02 Oh, wow. Yeah. So it was like, so I had a different subject matter for each grade level.
01:16:02 --> 01:16:05 And I think sixth grade was American history.
01:16:06 --> 01:16:14 And of all the classes, sixth grade class, they gave you a run for it. Yeah.
01:16:15 --> 01:16:20 I had, you know, you had the son, it was one girl, she was showing out and they
01:16:20 --> 01:16:23 then found out, well, the reason why she's showing out is because she has a
01:16:23 --> 01:16:25 crush on you. So she wants attention.
01:16:25 --> 01:16:32 I said, so we got to stop that. We need to talk to the parents and get that straight. Right.
01:16:32 --> 01:16:36 But I mean, you know, it was always that sixth grade class.
01:16:36 --> 01:16:40 That was always the challenge for me. And then the most rambunctious,
01:16:41 --> 01:16:45 when I used to go to that middle school about explaining the law and politics
01:16:45 --> 01:16:48 and all that stuff to those kids, it was, you know,
01:16:49 --> 01:16:53 it was engaging at every level, but it was really engaging with them.
01:16:54 --> 01:16:57 Because, like you said, they're making a transition. Huh? Yeah.
01:16:57 --> 01:17:01 They're challenging, but they're really ripe for learning, too,
01:17:01 --> 01:17:03 I imagine, you know. Yeah.
01:17:04 --> 01:17:08 What is the significance of the gemstones? You know.
01:17:10 --> 01:17:15 I mean, I knew I wanted gems. I wasn't sure how to include gems.
01:17:15 --> 01:17:20 But I think the father, and I did grow up, my dad collected gemstones.
01:17:20 --> 01:17:23 So I know a lot about gems. And Brazil is very beautiful.
01:17:23 --> 01:17:30 But I think I really wanted to look at the exploitation aspect of mining.
01:17:30 --> 01:17:37 Because Brazil, you know, was, first of all, like sugar was the big moneymaker
01:17:37 --> 01:17:40 for the colonists, but then it was gemstones.
01:17:43 --> 01:17:48 And the Germans came and the South African, you know, so there were many different
01:17:48 --> 01:17:52 levels of exploitation of people and miners.
01:17:52 --> 01:17:55 And I grew up with it. Like people would, you know, you'd go,
01:17:55 --> 01:17:59 it was full in the rivers. People would go with their little like nets looking
01:17:59 --> 01:18:06 for stones. You could find them everywhere, but the riches were really taken away from Brazil.
01:18:06 --> 01:18:11 And so it was really, I wanted to make a parallel between what someone is worth.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:17 Like it always bothered me that my dad would call stones semi-precious.
01:18:17 --> 01:18:19 And I would go like, what does that mean, semi-precious?
01:18:20 --> 01:18:24 Why is something precious or not precious? You know, what has value.
01:18:24 --> 01:18:29 And I think in my novel, I'm asking about what has value in life.
01:18:29 --> 01:18:32 You know, a disabled child, is she precious?
01:18:33 --> 01:18:36 You know, she's flawed, like the flaws in the gems.
01:18:37 --> 01:18:41 So I thought it was a real parallel between the way people look at gemstones
01:18:41 --> 01:18:46 and what they prize and the kind of perfectionism we have about bodies and health.
01:18:46 --> 01:18:51 And what do we do if we have a disabled child. Do we send them away?
01:18:51 --> 01:18:57 You know, why can't we include them? And so, I think it was a kind of conscious parallel that I made.
01:18:58 --> 01:19:02 Fits Brazil because Brazil has so many gemstones.
01:19:02 --> 01:19:08 But it also fitted with the kind of character of this father who collects gemstones
01:19:08 --> 01:19:13 and, you know, sees flaws in everything and wants perfection.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:18 And I think Dolores understands it, but he cannot deal with the flaws of her
01:19:18 --> 01:19:21 twin sister, and that's why he sent her away.
01:19:22 --> 01:19:24 That's how she sees it from her mind.
01:19:24 --> 01:19:31 Yeah, and she also used to tell time. Well, not chronological time,
01:19:31 --> 01:19:37 but, you know, like, well, yeah, I guess chronological includes years.
01:19:38 --> 01:19:42 You know, she would keep track of months based on the stones.
01:19:42 --> 01:19:47 Exactly. I was thinking about, you know, how do I show her marking time? Because she can't read.
01:19:48 --> 01:19:52 So I was struggling with how to mark time in the novel. And I thought,
01:19:52 --> 01:19:55 oh, a gem calendar, because she would know stones.
01:19:56 --> 01:20:00 And so each month has a birth, a stone associated with it.
01:20:00 --> 01:20:05 And that's how she measures time and the time away from her sister.
01:20:05 --> 01:20:08 Yeah, yeah. I thought that was pretty ingenious.
01:20:09 --> 01:20:16 Explain why Dolores doesn't like the color yellow. Because she associates it with sickness.
01:20:16 --> 01:20:22 I think that when Mita, first of all, when her twin started to have fits,
01:20:23 --> 01:20:29 she was more indoors and her skin got lighter. And so she became kind of yellow to Dolores.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:33 I think her tongue would become yellow.
01:20:33 --> 01:20:37 And I think the medications, I don't know if you've ever seen those,
01:20:37 --> 01:20:41 what the medications due to tongues, but tongues get kind of bumpy and yellow.
01:20:41 --> 01:20:45 And so I think it becomes sort of the color of illness to her.
01:20:46 --> 01:20:50 And yet at the same time, yellow is the color of the sun and it's very Brazilian color.
01:20:51 --> 01:20:57 So I sort of use yellow in the novel to mean very, very different things because
01:20:57 --> 01:21:02 Mita loves yellow and it's a very kind of joyful Brazilian color.
01:21:03 --> 01:21:08 And yet yellow then turns into being a color of sickness. Yeah.
01:21:09 --> 01:21:13 I remember her dad asked her, it's like, what would you like to change at the school?
01:21:14 --> 01:21:19 Yeah, I wish the school buses weren't yellow. He was like, all right, okay. Other than that.
01:21:20 --> 01:21:24 Well, it's because the yellow reminded her of her sister. Exactly.
01:21:24 --> 01:21:26 Yeah, her sister wanted everything yellow.
01:21:26 --> 01:21:30 And yellow at that point was a color of joy and the color of her twin.
01:21:31 --> 01:21:35 And now she was placed in this British school with all these white people and
01:21:35 --> 01:21:40 yellow school buses. And she just, it was too much for her to handle. Yeah.
01:21:41 --> 01:21:49 What would you say the environment of the story is similar to the current political
01:21:49 --> 01:21:50 climate we are living in?
01:21:51 --> 01:21:55 You know, there is, when I wrote this, it took me 20 years to write or more.
01:21:55 --> 01:22:02 So I really, you know, I wrote it on Thursday nights and overtime because I worked full time.
01:22:02 --> 01:22:07 So there are certain parts that I wrote that I really were about Brazil and
01:22:07 --> 01:22:10 I never thought would become so relevant here in America today.
01:22:11 --> 01:22:17 Like I have a French bookstore with a secret room for censored books and records,
01:22:17 --> 01:22:21 which was, I grew up with, like musicians had to go into exile,
01:22:22 --> 01:22:28 every month, you know, and books were banned and we were careful all the time with what we said.
01:22:28 --> 01:22:33 There was a real danger. Even as a kid, you knew that there was a real danger.
01:22:33 --> 01:22:37 I mean, even in my own family, when my dad would discuss politics and my mom
01:22:37 --> 01:22:39 would say, don't, don't speak about it.
01:22:40 --> 01:22:44 And my dad would say, no one can hear, but that my mom had this sense that it
01:22:44 --> 01:22:51 was dangerous to even talk at all about, you know, people disappearing or who might be responsible.
01:22:52 --> 01:22:54 So there was a real sense of secrecy.
01:22:55 --> 01:22:59 And so the banned books part came to be, I mean, books are being banned here
01:22:59 --> 01:23:02 in this country and censorship.
01:23:02 --> 01:23:04 And I think this sense of...
01:23:05 --> 01:23:09 You know, how a country can go from a democracy to a dictatorship.
01:23:10 --> 01:23:14 I remember the first, am I allowed to talk about politics?
01:23:15 --> 01:23:22 Oh, I am? Okay. You know, I remember that Trump won, and there was a particular moment where
01:23:23 --> 01:23:27 I think he was holding the Bible, and the horses came upon, you know,
01:23:27 --> 01:23:31 and I just started crying because I thought, oh my God, I know this moment.
01:23:31 --> 01:23:32 This is going to happen here.
01:23:33 --> 01:23:38 And I remember being so upset. And I called a friend of mine whose father is
01:23:38 --> 01:23:40 a history professor, whatever. And he goes, don't worry.
01:23:41 --> 01:23:46 Our institutions are strong. It will never be that. It was just a moment.
01:23:46 --> 01:23:48 But this country is going to hold.
01:23:48 --> 01:23:53 And I felt like it was much more precarious because I think I'd grown up with a dictatorship.
01:23:53 --> 01:23:59 And I think things have shifted in that direction bit by bit in this country
01:23:59 --> 01:24:03 where we're really wondering what's going to happen in this next election.
01:24:03 --> 01:24:05 I think people are holding their breath.
01:24:06 --> 01:24:11 And that kind of holding your breath is what we grew up with, or I grew up with.
01:24:12 --> 01:24:18 And I just never thought that when I came to live in America that that would be the case.
01:24:18 --> 01:24:25 I really thought this was a country where, you know, elections would hold and,
01:24:26 --> 01:24:30 you know, compared to Brazil, which is everyone's corrupt, you know.
01:24:30 --> 01:24:36 But the last time I was in Brazil, I mean, this was before when Lula won.
01:24:36 --> 01:24:41 And, you know, people were saying people were feeling sorry for me going back
01:24:41 --> 01:24:46 to America because like it felt like Brazil had a hold on democracy.
01:24:46 --> 01:24:49 But it's fragile. It's fragile in Brazil. It's fragile here.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:55 I think Europe knows how how fragile countries can be.
01:24:55 --> 01:24:59 I don't think America kind of knew until, at least not as much,
01:24:59 --> 01:25:06 how fragile democracy can be and how repressive a government can get.
01:25:07 --> 01:25:13 Yeah. So, you know, one of the, just listening to you, and I had the privilege
01:25:13 --> 01:25:16 of having Ruth Ben-Ghiat on the podcast years ago.
01:25:18 --> 01:25:23 You know, the more I just, again, like, listen, you thinking about it,
01:25:24 --> 01:25:30 it probably would have been smart to have people from my side, because I'm a Democrat.
01:25:31 --> 01:25:38 There's no hidden agenda here for me about that, because it was hard for folks
01:25:38 --> 01:25:43 to grasp what was being said about Project 2025.
01:25:44 --> 01:25:47 Five you know we did it was being read at the at the convention and we were
01:25:47 --> 01:25:50 telling people you need to look at this because this is what this other guy
01:25:50 --> 01:25:52 is going to do if he gets in there,
01:25:53 --> 01:25:57 and i think and then people got hung up it's like well you know i i get all
01:25:57 --> 01:26:02 that but it's like i think this dude is gonna make it cheaper for me to drive
01:26:02 --> 01:26:07 my car i think he's gonna make it cheaper for me to eat you know i'm saying,
01:26:08 --> 01:26:12 and i don't know i don't i don't know what this lady's talking about you You know,
01:26:13 --> 01:26:15 it was just kind of like because I had questions.
01:26:15 --> 01:26:19 Can she actually stand up to these folks? It was like, yeah,
01:26:19 --> 01:26:23 she's doing it right now. She is literally the vice president of the United
01:26:23 --> 01:26:24 States right now. Right.
01:26:25 --> 01:26:30 But it was just like, I wish that there were people that had experiences like
01:26:30 --> 01:26:34 you that would have cut commercials and say, hey, look, guys,
01:26:35 --> 01:26:39 I came to America because I wanted to avoid this.
01:26:39 --> 01:26:43 But if you vote for that dude. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be homecoming
01:26:43 --> 01:26:45 for me or however you want to phrase it.
01:26:46 --> 01:26:50 It would have been like I've been, you know, it's like I didn't then I would
01:26:50 --> 01:26:54 feel I hadn't escaped or whatever. And, you know, just the insight,
01:26:54 --> 01:26:56 just that little moment you were talking.
01:26:57 --> 01:27:04 I was just like, man, you know, that should have been really, because a lot of people,
01:27:05 --> 01:27:09 and I don't want to stray too far away from that, but we're about at the end
01:27:09 --> 01:27:15 as far as the interview, but I just, you know, just the point that you brought up about.
01:27:16 --> 01:27:23 You know, a lot of people, you know, wanted to get away from the persecution
01:27:24 --> 01:27:30 or the attempt of persecution or dictatorships or whatever in their country.
01:27:30 --> 01:27:35 And they came to America because America was this experiment where the people
01:27:35 --> 01:27:41 governed and it wasn't a king. It wasn't a ruler or anybody like that.
01:27:41 --> 01:27:44 It was like the people had to say in how their government worked.
01:27:45 --> 01:27:50 And, you know, even before America became America, it was a place where,
01:27:50 --> 01:27:55 you know, not my ancestors, but other folks came over and were,
01:27:55 --> 01:28:00 you know, escaping religious, you know, religious persecution because they didn't
01:28:00 --> 01:28:04 want to, you know, because the church was the government in some countries.
01:28:05 --> 01:28:12 And so, you know, the whole concept of this piece of land has been about people
01:28:12 --> 01:28:16 being free from persecution and be able to self-govern.
01:28:16 --> 01:28:24 And why we are way off track on that, I still don't know other than St.
01:28:24 --> 01:28:28 Augustine and the seven deadly sins. Right. But I just.
01:28:29 --> 01:28:36 It was really, it's, when I listened to you, Juliette, and others talk about
01:28:36 --> 01:28:40 what you dealt with and what America means to you,
01:28:41 --> 01:28:45 I think Americans forget the value of what you have.
01:28:45 --> 01:28:49 It's that old saying, familiarity breeds contempt.
01:28:50 --> 01:28:54 Yeah. Yeah, I do think there's an innocence in a way that they don't know that
01:28:55 --> 01:28:57 you can lose what you have.
01:28:58 --> 01:29:04 Right. The manifesto was right there. You know, they were saying what they wanted
01:29:04 --> 01:29:09 to do, but somehow it wasn't, it didn't compute, I think.
01:29:09 --> 01:29:13 It was sort of like hard to imagine. Well, it goes back to the history professor
01:29:13 --> 01:29:17 that you talked to, your friend. It was like, you know, it's like, I don't know.
01:29:17 --> 01:29:20 America's going to be fine. The institutions are strong.
01:29:20 --> 01:29:23 It'll hold up, you know. Right.
01:29:24 --> 01:29:32 And I just, the analogy I have is that when Hurricane Katrina hit Mississippi, right,
01:29:33 --> 01:29:40 before Katrina in 1969, there was a storm called Camille and Camille had wiped
01:29:40 --> 01:29:42 out a lot of the Gulf Coast.
01:29:42 --> 01:29:47 And there was this one church that survived, Camille.
01:29:48 --> 01:29:53 And so hurricanes hit the coast and all that stuff, and that church still stood.
01:29:53 --> 01:29:57 When Katrina happened, that church was gone. Wow.
01:29:59 --> 01:30:07 That is so tough. And so my analogy is that, yeah, America has withstood attempts in the past.
01:30:08 --> 01:30:12 You know, there was the America First movement in the 1930s, right?
01:30:13 --> 01:30:17 But you weren't ready for this hurricane called Donald Trump.
01:30:19 --> 01:30:25 And how motivated these people in this MAGA movement are. And so,
01:30:25 --> 01:30:31 you know, it's like every structure, and I'm getting into architecture,
01:30:31 --> 01:30:34 but every structure has a pressure point, right?
01:30:34 --> 01:30:37 And that's the same with political structures.
01:30:38 --> 01:30:43 And right now you know we're we're going through a tough time so,
01:30:44 --> 01:30:49 yeah we're really hitting the pressure point i think and i really hope that
01:30:49 --> 01:30:57 church stands amen amen all right so what what do you want readers to take away
01:30:57 --> 01:30:59 from well before i ask you this question,
01:31:00 --> 01:31:06 One of the things that you also addressed in the book was dealing with how we
01:31:06 --> 01:31:09 institutionalize people. What.
01:31:12 --> 01:31:19 Were you going with, you know, the way that you talked about through Dolores'
01:31:19 --> 01:31:27 eyes, the trauma of somebody you care about being institutionalized, and you compared it with,
01:31:28 --> 01:31:32 the government taking away citizens, disappearing people?
01:31:33 --> 01:31:40 What were you trying to convey in that about the way that we institutionalize people?
01:31:41 --> 01:31:45 Well, I think that there is a feeling of like out of sight, out of mind.
01:31:45 --> 01:31:48 And there's a frozen grief. I
01:31:48 --> 01:31:52 wanted to look at the grief that really gets frozen and goes underground.
01:31:52 --> 01:31:57 And if you can't say it and it's a source of shame, it just doesn't get,
01:31:58 --> 01:32:01 in a way, the family gets affected and they don't grieve either.
01:32:02 --> 01:32:05 So there's some very unnatural processes, I think, of, first of all,
01:32:05 --> 01:32:10 removing anybody from a family or a community. That's unnatural.
01:32:10 --> 01:32:11 You know, I think there's such a grief.
01:32:13 --> 01:32:18 And that was a policy across the world, I think. It happened here.
01:32:18 --> 01:32:22 I mean, you know, Kennedy, Rosemary Kennedy was institutionalized.
01:32:23 --> 01:32:26 And that family had the resources to do otherwise.
01:32:27 --> 01:32:32 And the medical profession at the time led, you know, mainly by men would say
01:32:32 --> 01:32:37 it's best for the family. It's best for everybody because you can have a normal
01:32:37 --> 01:32:40 family and for the other siblings, it's better for them.
01:32:41 --> 01:32:47 And that was frequently advised, I think. I think they probably said that to my mother.
01:32:47 --> 01:32:49 And I think that,
01:32:50 --> 01:32:53 Also, my mother being illiterate, and that's why literacy is important,
01:32:53 --> 01:32:57 she wasn't going to question the medical profession.
01:32:57 --> 01:33:02 And it is hard to have a disabled child at home. It's tons of work.
01:33:02 --> 01:33:04 So you would need government support.
01:33:04 --> 01:33:07 Even today here in America, I have friends in that situation,
01:33:07 --> 01:33:09 and it's difficult, you know.
01:33:10 --> 01:33:15 So I think I just really, it's a parallel between what goes underground.
01:33:17 --> 01:33:20 And the government was, again, the disappearing people.
01:33:20 --> 01:33:26 We kind of knew it happened, but there was no kind of, there were little moments,
01:33:27 --> 01:33:32 of rebellion where journalists, they would print, they couldn't print the truth,
01:33:32 --> 01:33:38 but they would print these crazy recipes in the space of stories about people who were disappeared.
01:33:38 --> 01:33:42 So there were some days where there would be a recipe for coconut cake and there
01:33:42 --> 01:33:46 would be 5 eggs and 10 tons of sugar.
01:33:46 --> 01:33:49 And nobody noticed because it was just in the recipe section.
01:33:49 --> 01:33:54 But however much space it took in the newspaper, that's how people would know,
01:33:54 --> 01:33:59 oh, there were many stories that were censored this week. So a lot is happening.
01:33:59 --> 01:34:02 So there were secret ways of telling people what was happening.
01:34:03 --> 01:34:06 But it was just really, it was really secret. It was underground.
01:34:07 --> 01:34:12 And it was only, Brazil only had a truth commission in 2014 when Dilma came
01:34:12 --> 01:34:15 in power and she herself had been tortured by the government.
01:34:16 --> 01:34:21 And so Brazil, you know, gave an amnesty and it was forgive and forget.
01:34:21 --> 01:34:24 It wasn't like Chile or Argentina. They just moved on again,
01:34:24 --> 01:34:26 pretending it was a lot like the...
01:34:27 --> 01:34:32 Bluffing and pretending everything was fine. And the people who tortured were
01:34:32 --> 01:34:36 allowed and some of them stayed in government positions.
01:34:36 --> 01:34:41 So it was only recently, really relatively recently, that Brazil had its own
01:34:41 --> 01:34:43 kind of truce commission.
01:34:43 --> 01:34:48 So I just wanted to look at these policies that become sort of normal,
01:34:49 --> 01:34:53 like doctors telling families, you should send your child away,
01:34:53 --> 01:34:56 You know, and how harmful that is.
01:34:56 --> 01:35:00 So there are many levels, I think, and I did want to make a parallel to the
01:35:00 --> 01:35:05 country where harms were being done to people were disappeared.
01:35:05 --> 01:35:09 And it would, the government would say, well, he committed suicide,
01:35:10 --> 01:35:14 you know, but it wasn't really, it was a journalist who was disappeared because
01:35:14 --> 01:35:16 they spoke to truth to power.
01:35:17 --> 01:35:22 So there was kind of a parallel in my book about that situation.
01:35:22 --> 01:35:26 Yeah, there's a passage in where...
01:35:27 --> 01:35:34 There was, I forget the scenario, but Dolores felt more,
01:35:34 --> 01:35:39 she felt more like the inanimate objects, like the coconut or anything than
01:35:39 --> 01:35:43 like the plants in her class. That's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:35:44 --> 01:35:50 It was in her science class. And she said that she related more to the coconut
01:35:50 --> 01:35:52 shell rather than the plant.
01:35:52 --> 01:35:59 Right and so with you talking about the code i was like oh yeah okay i can i
01:35:59 --> 01:36:03 see how that works out it was like she felt like she was one of the ones that,
01:36:04 --> 01:36:09 you know was unaccounted for and you know it was just left out and and like
01:36:09 --> 01:36:14 you said that's how the reporters used to code you know this is how many people
01:36:14 --> 01:36:18 or this is how many stories were blocked you know but it was in her recipe.
01:36:18 --> 01:36:20 That was pretty ingenious. I like that.
01:36:21 --> 01:36:24 But then the amnesty thing, too, we didn't have a truth commission in the United
01:36:24 --> 01:36:28 States, but we kind of like did a forgive and forget after the Civil War.
01:36:28 --> 01:36:33 That's really true. That's how you got all these Confederate memorials up here, right?
01:36:34 --> 01:36:35 But that's a whole nother podcast.
01:36:37 --> 01:36:40 What do you want readers to take away from this novel?
01:36:41 --> 01:36:47 I think a sense of, you know, that, first of all, that you can fight against
01:36:47 --> 01:36:50 sort of norms, like even medical norms.
01:36:50 --> 01:36:57 You can fight for your family and that children really need to be listened to
01:36:57 --> 01:37:01 because even if they're 12, there are certain truths.
01:37:01 --> 01:37:07 And if there's sad things happening in the family, whether it's health or,
01:37:07 --> 01:37:12 you know, politics, that it's important to tell children things.
01:37:12 --> 01:37:15 Like if Dolores had been said, you know, we need to do something about your
01:37:15 --> 01:37:19 sister, even though I don't think that would have been the best solution,
01:37:19 --> 01:37:24 it would have been less traumatic than just sending her away without talking about it.
01:37:25 --> 01:37:28 So it's really about the power of talking in some ways and the power of found
01:37:28 --> 01:37:34 family, because Dolores does find this group of sex workers who live on the
01:37:34 --> 01:37:39 margins, but they teach her, like, they stand by each other no matter what.
01:37:39 --> 01:37:44 And so they teach her a different model of care than the one in her own family.
01:37:44 --> 01:37:49 So that's another kind of, like, the importance of found family. Yeah.
01:37:49 --> 01:37:54 All right. So my challenge to every guest that comes on the show is this.
01:37:54 --> 01:37:58 Finish this sentence. I have hope because...
01:37:59 --> 01:38:03 Are you asking me to finish that? Yes, yes, yes. Oh, sorry. I thought you were
01:38:03 --> 01:38:06 ruminating on it for a minute. Oh, no.
01:38:06 --> 01:38:10 I was thinking you were asking your guess. Well, I have hope.
01:38:10 --> 01:38:16 I have hope because I have seen transformations in people and in countries.
01:38:16 --> 01:38:20 So I have hope because I know there is that part in people.
01:38:23 --> 01:38:27 That can care for people. And we need to make sure that that's the part we speak to.
01:38:27 --> 01:38:36 All right. So, Juliet Faithful, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast.
01:38:38 --> 01:38:40 And for writing this book, Liar's Dice.
01:38:41 --> 01:38:44 How can people get the book? How can people reach out to you?
01:38:45 --> 01:38:47 I have a website, JulietFaithful.com.
01:38:48 --> 01:38:55 And on that website, you have links to Amazon, to your, you know, Bookshop.com.
01:38:56 --> 01:38:59 It's in, you know, I would always try your indie bookstore first,
01:38:59 --> 01:39:06 but if you can't find it there, it's definitely on Amazon and in bookshop.org.
01:39:06 --> 01:39:10 And sign up for my newsletter and I can be in touch.
01:39:10 --> 01:39:16 All right. Well, Juliet, it's been an honor to meet you and to have you come on.
01:39:17 --> 01:39:21 One of my rules is that once you've been on, you have an open invitation to come back.
01:39:21 --> 01:39:25 So next time, hopefully it won't be 20 years, but the next time you decide to
01:39:25 --> 01:39:30 write a book, you're more than welcome to come back on.
01:39:30 --> 01:39:33 Or just if anything you want to talk about, just let me know.
01:39:33 --> 01:39:37 We'll make that happen. But it really has been a pleasure and a joy to talk
01:39:37 --> 01:39:42 to you about your book and about your experiences and stuff.
01:39:43 --> 01:39:45 And again, just thank you for coming on.
01:39:45 --> 01:39:48 Thank you, Eric. It was great. Really great. All right, guys.
01:39:48 --> 01:39:50 And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:40:03 --> 01:40:12 All right, and so we are back, and I want to thank Paul M. Katz and Juliet Faithful
01:40:12 --> 01:40:14 for coming on to the podcast.
01:40:14 --> 01:40:18 Enjoy the discussions both on and off the air.
01:40:18 --> 01:40:24 You know, if I had any marketing sense, you know, some way we could have these
01:40:24 --> 01:40:29 off-air discussions on Patreon or something like that, but then they probably
01:40:29 --> 01:40:33 wouldn't be as much fun because we know people are still listening.
01:40:33 --> 01:40:38 But nonetheless, I really enjoyed talking to them. I hope that you get their books.
01:40:38 --> 01:40:45 Commit Together is Paul's book, and Juliette's book is Liar's Dice.
01:40:46 --> 01:40:49 So please, please, please check those books out.
01:40:50 --> 01:40:56 And, you know, hopefully that you, again, enjoyed interviews and got some inspiration
01:40:56 --> 01:41:01 to not only get the books, but to dive into the issues that they were talking about.
01:41:02 --> 01:41:04 All right, so like I said in the intro...
01:41:07 --> 01:41:15 This is it, y'all. We're here. It seems like it's been a long time coming, but we're here.
01:41:15 --> 01:41:22 Like I said, when this drops, November the 3rd is literally the next day.
01:41:23 --> 01:41:32 And I really hope that when we have our podcast next week, that I have some good news.
01:41:35 --> 01:41:44 You know and again it'll be in spite of the Democrats themselves,
01:41:45 --> 01:41:49 because it's really laid out there I mean the foolishness is,
01:41:50 --> 01:41:55 at an all time high the president says he's going to do tele-rallies then he
01:41:55 --> 01:42:01 says no I'm going back out there and I'm tired they're wearing me out do. What do you want to do?
01:42:02 --> 01:42:07 Do you want to sit at the White House for the remainder of the campaign? What are you doing?
01:42:08 --> 01:42:12 But by this point, it is what it is.
01:42:13 --> 01:42:18 So it's just everything's been laid out for you.
01:42:19 --> 01:42:24 And I know that in Michigan, and for y'all who are listening in Michigan,
01:42:25 --> 01:42:30 I'm still mad at y'all because y'all could have avoided all of this and pick Mallory McMurray.
01:42:31 --> 01:42:34 And it just, all of y'all should have lined up with her. And,
01:42:35 --> 01:42:38 you know, Dr. El-Said, I love you.
01:42:39 --> 01:42:45 Congresswoman Stevens, maybe not as much. But, you know, we're all part of the Democratic family.
01:42:46 --> 01:42:50 And, but if y'all had picked McMurray, y'all wouldn't have gone through all
01:42:50 --> 01:42:53 that. Nonetheless, y'all in Michigan, y'all know what y'all wanted.
01:42:54 --> 01:43:01 El Saeed won. And so since he won the Democratic primary, that means everybody
01:43:01 --> 01:43:03 should be in line, right?
01:43:05 --> 01:43:08 However, and this is where we shoot ourselves in the foot.
01:43:09 --> 01:43:17 So apparently the man that Congresswoman Stevens is engaged to has basically
01:43:17 --> 01:43:20 said, yeah, I'm not voting for the Arab guy.
01:43:21 --> 01:43:23 I'm going to vote for Mike Rogers.
01:43:23 --> 01:43:28 Never mind what that means in the big scope of things, right?
01:43:29 --> 01:43:32 Because you're just not down with the Arab guy.
01:43:32 --> 01:43:36 You can say, well, you're not down with the Arab guy.
01:43:37 --> 01:43:44 So I'd rather you had gone to Israel and voted, which you probably did, because, you know,
01:43:45 --> 01:43:50 people, Jewish people in the United States have that privilege to be granted
01:43:50 --> 01:43:56 citizenship in Israel and to be able to vote in those elections absentee. Right.
01:43:57 --> 01:44:00 But it's an option. It's not mandatory that they do it.
01:44:02 --> 01:44:05 If they want to do it, so be it. He probably did it.
01:44:05 --> 01:44:13 And so I'd rather you just gone over there and got into that mess with Dan Yahu.
01:44:14 --> 01:44:22 And he still got 53 seats in parliament. His party got 53. After all of that, he still got 53 seats.
01:44:23 --> 01:44:27 But if you listen to my episode and please get Guy Golan's book,
01:44:27 --> 01:44:30 I can't think of the name of the book right off the top of my head right this minute.
01:44:30 --> 01:44:36 But Guy Golan had written a book, and he basically broke it down that the Jewish
01:44:36 --> 01:44:42 people in the United States are more liberal than the Jewish people in Israel, right?
01:44:43 --> 01:44:50 So the fact that the Likud Party lost seats will be the equivalent of the Republicans
01:44:50 --> 01:44:54 losing seats here after the midterm, right? Right.
01:44:56 --> 01:45:00 The only difference would be that the Likud still technically has the majority
01:45:00 --> 01:45:08 of seats, but because a number of Arab seats, Arab political parties,
01:45:09 --> 01:45:21 so Arab citizens of Israel, those, they voted for, I think there's two Arab parties in Israel.
01:45:21 --> 01:45:25 And so those people have seats.
01:45:25 --> 01:45:31 And then the guy that was running against Netanyahu, his party,
01:45:31 --> 01:45:34 which is really a coalition of smaller groups,
01:45:35 --> 01:45:41 they acquired 40, 48 seats, 40, 40 something.
01:45:42 --> 01:45:45 So they're going to have to have a coalition group. Now, the guy that's in opposition
01:45:45 --> 01:45:49 to Netanyahu is like, I'm not going to participate in a coalition government,
01:45:50 --> 01:45:52 with Netanyahu in it, right?
01:45:53 --> 01:45:57 Because I wouldn't have run if I wanted him to be part of the government.
01:45:58 --> 01:46:07 So, you know, but since none of them got the majority that's needed in the Knesset,
01:46:07 --> 01:46:12 then they got to form a coalition government and then that coalition picks who
01:46:12 --> 01:46:13 the prime minister is going to be.
01:46:16 --> 01:46:17 That's going to be a while.
01:46:19 --> 01:46:22 They're going to be fighting over there for a while. But that gets me back to
01:46:23 --> 01:46:26 Ms. Stevens, Congresswoman Stevenson's fiance.
01:46:26 --> 01:46:30 I'd rather you'd been in that mess and just stayed in that than to open your
01:46:30 --> 01:46:35 mouth and say you're going to vote for Mike. I used to work for the FBI,
01:46:36 --> 01:46:38 but I really want to be in WWE Rogers.
01:46:39 --> 01:46:43 I really didn't need you to say that out loud. You could have said that to your
01:46:43 --> 01:46:45 future wife at your house.
01:46:46 --> 01:46:49 You did not need to get on a microphone. You could have kept that private in
01:46:49 --> 01:46:52 the booth, but you didn't need to get on a microphone.
01:46:52 --> 01:46:55 But you did that because you don't like Arab people.
01:46:56 --> 01:47:01 And if the congresswoman is going to marry you, she don't like Arab people either,
01:47:02 --> 01:47:06 because that's going to be a problem if y'all get in the house. It's already a problem.
01:47:08 --> 01:47:13 She says she's voting for her Democratic colleague, the person that beat her in the primary.
01:47:14 --> 01:47:17 She's saying that out loud. She's still trying to shake hands with him.
01:47:18 --> 01:47:23 But you didn't put her in a bind by saying, I'm not.
01:47:24 --> 01:47:32 And it doesn't hurt. Well, I shouldn't say it doesn't help that of all the candidates
01:47:32 --> 01:47:35 that got money from AIPAC, your fiance.
01:47:39 --> 01:47:42 Congresswoman Stephens, rather, Congresswoman Stephens,
01:47:45 --> 01:47:54 She got the most money. So let's see if AIPAC has ruined the chance for the
01:47:54 --> 01:47:59 Democrats to be Fetterman proof in the United States Senate.
01:48:00 --> 01:48:03 Right. All right. Which, you know,
01:48:04 --> 01:48:12 because see, if if APAC shuts down Michigan and Mike Rogers,
01:48:12 --> 01:48:16 a man who was living in Florida until he decided to run for the U.S.
01:48:16 --> 01:48:21 Senate in Michigan, if he gets in there, then it means not only is 50 50,
01:48:21 --> 01:48:28 but on any votes that's dealing with funding for Israel for military purposes.
01:48:29 --> 01:48:35 It'll be 51 49 because fetterman is going to vote,
01:48:35 --> 01:48:41 for israel he's going to vote for the money for fun israel just like lindsey
01:48:41 --> 01:48:44 graham was hell-bent on making sure that ukraine got their money,
01:48:44 --> 01:48:47 john fetterman is going to be hell-bent to make sure that israel gets their
01:48:47 --> 01:48:53 money for weapons that's the line in the sand he is drawn take that for what you will,
01:48:55 --> 01:49:01 It's looking like right now that AIPAC has become, if they pull this off,
01:49:01 --> 01:49:04 because I still have faith in the folks in Wayne County.
01:49:06 --> 01:49:11 I still have faith that I have faith in the Upper Peninsula.
01:49:11 --> 01:49:16 Because when I saw Doc go up there and talk to them and the response that he
01:49:16 --> 01:49:21 got from the folks in the Upper Peninsula, bruh, that's just like if you win
01:49:21 --> 01:49:24 the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, that's like winning the panhandle in Florida.
01:49:25 --> 01:49:31 If you can break that conservative logjam in the panhandle of Florida and the
01:49:31 --> 01:49:34 upper peninsula of Michigan, you've won those respective states.
01:49:35 --> 01:49:40 Because Florida's got Miami and Orlando and Jacksonville, right?
01:49:40 --> 01:49:47 And I guess you could say Tallahassee. That's the only blue dot in the panhandle is Tallahassee, right?
01:49:47 --> 01:49:50 And then in Michigan, you got Detroit, Ohio.
01:49:51 --> 01:49:57 Basically, the Detroit metropolitan area and Ann Arbor and Lansing, the college town.
01:49:57 --> 01:50:03 You win those and you win the Upper Peninsula, you've won the state. You've won.
01:50:04 --> 01:50:08 So that's what I'm banking. I'm banking on the fact that El Saeed is going to
01:50:08 --> 01:50:11 win the Upper Peninsula and the folks in Wayne County are going to show up.
01:50:12 --> 01:50:17 Despite what Stevens is trying to do, because for some reason, she got the black vote.
01:50:18 --> 01:50:23 I'm still not feeling that. I don't know. So, like I said, if y'all from Detroit,
01:50:23 --> 01:50:25 I got some friends up there in Flint.
01:50:25 --> 01:50:30 Y'all tell me what was the appeal for this woman compared to McMurray,
01:50:31 --> 01:50:33 who has always been down for the cause with black folks.
01:50:34 --> 01:50:36 I know she's Irish. She got the red hair and all that.
01:50:37 --> 01:50:41 But I had never seen that Stevens chick. The only person I'd ever seen from
01:50:41 --> 01:50:42 Michigan out there talking about
01:50:42 --> 01:50:48 stuff that we cared about was McMurray on the, you know, white folks.
01:50:48 --> 01:50:52 Because even Slotkin and Dingell and all them, they didn't mess with us like
01:50:52 --> 01:50:57 that. Now, you know, I mean, Dingell is like a family institution.
01:50:57 --> 01:50:58 They're like the Kennedys up there.
01:50:59 --> 01:51:06 But, you know, and then really, to be honest, Slotkin might be,
01:51:07 --> 01:51:10 you can't have Slotkin's vote. It still might be 51-49.
01:51:13 --> 01:51:20 Even if what's-his-name, you know, or 50-50 with breaking the tide when it comes to Israel deal.
01:51:21 --> 01:51:27 Either way, it might be 51-49. I'm trying to do the math, even with El Saeed
01:51:27 --> 01:51:30 in there, because Slotkin's probably going to vote for the money too.
01:51:31 --> 01:51:37 Nonetheless, you know, El Saeed won the primary because he was talking about,
01:51:38 --> 01:51:42 stuff, and people in Wayne County, enough of them realized,
01:51:43 --> 01:51:47 yeah, that's the guy that made sure that my kid had eyeglasses so he could go
01:51:47 --> 01:51:50 to school and not fail, right?
01:51:50 --> 01:51:58 A lot of folks realize that. So I'm hoping that this mess that's happening now,
01:51:59 --> 01:52:02 that's trying to put a dent on election day turnout,
01:52:02 --> 01:52:06 you know, the early voting, everybody voted for the doc and he's going to be U.S.
01:52:06 --> 01:52:09 Senator and we'll be done with that, right?
01:52:10 --> 01:52:14 And hopefully be done with Stephen. She'll probably be a lobbyist for AIPAC,
01:52:14 --> 01:52:17 when it's all said and done. And that's fine.
01:52:18 --> 01:52:24 You know, I just think that if there's an American-Israeli PAC,
01:52:24 --> 01:52:28 then there should be an American-Africa PAC, right?
01:52:28 --> 01:52:34 Or America, let's be country-specific. Let's have an ANPAC, right?
01:52:34 --> 01:52:39 An American-Nigerian Political Action Committee, right?
01:52:40 --> 01:52:46 Well, the country you need. Taiwan, a TPAC, right? I mean, let's just open it up.
01:52:47 --> 01:52:56 Because, you know, they're basically a foreign agent that's been given American credentials.
01:52:57 --> 01:53:03 And I think if I was a member of Congress going in on this wave,
01:53:04 --> 01:53:05 probably need to look at that.
01:53:07 --> 01:53:13 With the influence that they have. If you deem them as a foreign agent,
01:53:13 --> 01:53:22 then they'll be limited, if even restricted, from being engaged in local politics
01:53:22 --> 01:53:23 ever again, American politics.
01:53:24 --> 01:53:31 I'm just being strategic, because if they mess Michigan up, bruh, I get it.
01:53:31 --> 01:53:37 The people that I grew up in Sunday school reading about, David and Moses and
01:53:37 --> 01:53:44 all that stuff. But, bruh, you mess Michigan up for us as Democrats. Ooh.
01:53:46 --> 01:53:49 And I got good friends. I've had people on the podcast that,
01:53:49 --> 01:53:52 you know, support APEC, work for them.
01:53:53 --> 01:53:56 Nothing personal against them. It's not a hate thing.
01:53:57 --> 01:54:02 It's just like the Green Bay Packers, right? When we play, Bears play the Packers,
01:54:03 --> 01:54:04 it's on. When Jackson State plays
01:54:04 --> 01:54:08 Alcorn, it's on. When Ole Miss plays Mississippi State, it's on, right?
01:54:09 --> 01:54:11 The Yankees play the Red Sox. It's on.
01:54:11 --> 01:54:17 Now, if one of them teams that ain't my team make it to the championship game,
01:54:18 --> 01:54:21 I'm probably rooting for them. If Alcorn makes it to the SWAC championship,
01:54:21 --> 01:54:23 we don't. I'm rooting for Alcorn.
01:54:24 --> 01:54:28 Over to me, heck? Oh, most definitely, right? Now, it's still going to be all
01:54:28 --> 01:54:36 HBCU love at the after party, But, I mean, you know, it's not like hate, hate.
01:54:37 --> 01:54:42 There is a game. I forget which college rivalry it is where it's like good old-fashioned hate.
01:54:43 --> 01:54:47 I forgot which one it is right now. But there is one that's called good old-fashioned
01:54:47 --> 01:54:51 hate. But everybody else, it's a rivalry. It's just, you know.
01:54:52 --> 01:54:55 And that's what we'll have to, as Democrats, that's what we'll have to look
01:54:55 --> 01:54:57 at APAC. We'll have to look at, especially progressive Democrats,
01:54:57 --> 01:55:00 we'll have to look at it as an APAC, as a rivalry.
01:55:01 --> 01:55:04 Now, unless they're listed as a foreign agent, then they won't be anything.
01:55:06 --> 01:55:11 Only thing I'm worried about because I think Keisha's going to win it.
01:55:11 --> 01:55:14 As a matter of fact, I know she's going to win, right?
01:55:14 --> 01:55:18 She's going to win because there's been some concern about some of my friends
01:55:18 --> 01:55:22 down in Albany and the Black Belt of Georgia.
01:55:22 --> 01:55:25 They showing up on Tuesday. They coming.
01:55:26 --> 01:55:32 Probably have some things to do. You know, good number of them only voted, but not at the level.
01:55:34 --> 01:55:39 Right not at the level that everybody else has been early voting but they coming,
01:55:40 --> 01:55:45 they coming on Tuesday and you know and also I was gonna beat Mike Collins brains
01:55:45 --> 01:55:48 out it's not even gonna be close right,
01:55:48 --> 01:55:53 and so George is okay at those top two positions I'm a little worried about
01:55:53 --> 01:55:58 Tonya Martin because I'm trying to figure out how a guy that's never tried a
01:55:58 --> 01:56:02 case in court has a chance against a former,
01:56:03 --> 01:56:05 state representative, a former,
01:56:06 --> 01:56:09 well, I mean, he served in the state legislature too, I guess,
01:56:09 --> 01:56:12 but a trial prosecutor, right?
01:56:13 --> 01:56:18 She has actually put people in jail because this guy is like talking about,
01:56:18 --> 01:56:22 oh, well, she's, you know, she's let criminals go, blah, blah.
01:56:23 --> 01:56:27 Bruh, let's look at your resume. You haven't even been in the building.
01:56:27 --> 01:56:29 You haven't prosecuted anybody.
01:56:30 --> 01:56:36 You trying to smash on whatever failure she may have had or whatever crime rate
01:56:36 --> 01:56:39 been when she was like assistant district attorney.
01:56:40 --> 01:56:44 Dude, you're not even in the game. That's just like somebody that plays wiffle
01:56:44 --> 01:56:49 ball trying to tell Shohei Ohtani how to hit, right?
01:56:50 --> 01:56:52 You're not even playing in the same game.
01:56:54 --> 01:56:58 Y'all know why that boy got a chance, don't you? Y'all know.
01:56:58 --> 01:57:02 Y'all know. We talk about we in the South still. Y'all know why you got a chance.
01:57:03 --> 01:57:06 And I don't make no damn sense. None.
01:57:07 --> 01:57:11 That should be a blowout. That's too close to call. Right?
01:57:12 --> 01:57:17 I don't even know who's running against Judge Penny for Secretary of State here
01:57:17 --> 01:57:19 in Georgia. I don't even know who the Republican is.
01:57:20 --> 01:57:23 When I hear the name of it, oh yeah, okay. And I have already voted.
01:57:23 --> 01:57:27 I voted the first day of really voting. I still don't remember the other name.
01:57:29 --> 01:57:34 That's how absent this person has been. And if she loses that.
01:57:36 --> 01:57:42 We know why. Right? Ain't about rigging nothing other than mindsets.
01:57:43 --> 01:57:46 I mean, in Georgia, there should be a whole lot of black women in statewide
01:57:46 --> 01:57:50 office by the end of Tuesday night. Let me just say that.
01:57:51 --> 01:57:55 Because you got sisters running into the governor, attorney general,
01:57:56 --> 01:57:59 secretary of state, insurance commissioner, and labor commissioner.
01:58:00 --> 01:58:04 Conservatively, three out of five should win. Conservatively.
01:58:05 --> 01:58:08 Anything less than three is a problem.
01:58:09 --> 01:58:15 Right? We know what time it is. But them folks, it's going to be historic here
01:58:15 --> 01:58:20 in Georgia. I'm just letting y'all know it's going to be historic.
01:58:20 --> 01:58:23 Mississippi, my Lord.
01:58:24 --> 01:58:32 Oh, I want him to win so bad. I've heard some people trying to defend the indefensible there.
01:58:33 --> 01:58:40 Oh, well, you know, I know that Cindy ain't been this and Cindy ain't been that,
01:58:40 --> 01:58:45 but I'm not voting for no radical left, but I'm not voting for that power.
01:58:47 --> 01:58:52 Who Scott Colombe is. Scott Colombe has been a district attorney for a number
01:58:52 --> 01:58:55 of years, right, in the Golden Triangle area.
01:58:56 --> 01:59:00 His daddy was a prominent attorney. His daddy was a Republican,
01:59:00 --> 01:59:03 a black Republican in Mississippi, right?
01:59:04 --> 01:59:08 And I mean, he wasn't just no, he wasn't a MAGA guy.
01:59:09 --> 01:59:14 He was of the Edward Brooke type of Republican, right?
01:59:15 --> 01:59:17 Because, you know, they were black folks. But when I was growing up,
01:59:17 --> 01:59:20 if you were black and you were a Democrat, you were black and Republican,
01:59:21 --> 01:59:25 the key moniker was black.
01:59:26 --> 01:59:28 You were in the Republican Party looking out for black folks.
01:59:28 --> 01:59:31 You were looking out for black folks in the Democratic Party.
01:59:31 --> 01:59:33 That's what that meant when I was growing up.
01:59:34 --> 01:59:39 So when Edward Brooke was up there, he was at the same party, Richard Nixon.
01:59:39 --> 01:59:43 But if Richard Nixon was trying to push something and he had been the attorney
01:59:43 --> 01:59:46 general of Massachusetts before that, Richard Nixon was trying to push something
01:59:46 --> 01:59:50 through that was going to be anti-black Edward Brooke was not going to vote
01:59:50 --> 01:59:53 with the Republicans He was not going to be loyal on that issue,
01:59:54 --> 01:59:58 Rest assured And he was eloquent enough to tell you why,
01:59:59 --> 02:00:03 He was so eloquent he could just tell you to kiss his ass And you would feel good about it.
02:00:05 --> 02:00:10 These black Republicans we got going on now, they ain't nowhere near what those
02:00:10 --> 02:00:16 guys were, right? And so Will Cologne, Scott's daddy, was one of them type of Republicans.
02:00:16 --> 02:00:21 You could walk in the room, have a drink with him, smoke cigar, talk about stuff.
02:00:21 --> 02:00:25 Then when you get to the politics stuff, then y'all talk trash, and you kept it moving.
02:00:26 --> 02:00:31 Disagreed on that? Okay, great. We'll work some out. So Scott Cologne is not
02:00:31 --> 02:00:33 some Johnny-come-lately dude.
02:00:34 --> 02:00:40 But, of course, having been the Democratic nominee myself and Mike Espy having
02:00:40 --> 02:00:44 been the Democratic nominee himself twice, just like me.
02:00:45 --> 02:00:48 Oh, and then Mike had to run against Cindy twice.
02:00:49 --> 02:00:53 You know how proud we would be if Scott pulled us off?
02:00:53 --> 02:00:57 I'm just proud of the fact that Scott is on these national news shows,
02:00:58 --> 02:01:05 that Mississippi is in the conversation, that they are talking to him like they're
02:01:05 --> 02:01:08 talking to Ossoff, like they're talking to Cooper in North Carolina,
02:01:09 --> 02:01:14 like they're talking to Peralta in Alaska, right?
02:01:14 --> 02:01:17 I hope I said your name right, Senator. I hope I said your name right.
02:01:17 --> 02:01:23 You know, we were dying for that. Mike got some cred because he had been the
02:01:23 --> 02:01:25 Secretary of Agriculture. He had been in Congress.
02:01:26 --> 02:01:31 Closest I got was commitments if I pulled it off.
02:01:31 --> 02:01:35 Like NPR and all them folks, they were lined up ready to talk to me if we pulled it off.
02:01:36 --> 02:01:40 And the only reason why they thought I had a chance because I was running the
02:01:40 --> 02:01:43 same year Obama was running and everything was all Obama.
02:01:45 --> 02:01:50 For Scott to get this recognition is, oh, my God, I am so proud of that brother.
02:01:51 --> 02:01:55 And I got to tell him that at homecoming. He was there at homecoming. Cindy wasn't.
02:01:56 --> 02:02:01 Cindy was still hiding. Scott was there. And I can talk about Cindy because
02:02:01 --> 02:02:03 I served with Cindy in the state legislature.
02:02:05 --> 02:02:11 And she was a Democrat then. She was more loyal than the other person from Brookhaven, Barnett.
02:02:12 --> 02:02:18 But they were feeling it. They were itching to switch. You could feel it. And that's okay.
02:02:20 --> 02:02:25 But, you know, I was through with Cindy because I could still kind of talk to
02:02:25 --> 02:02:32 her, but I was through with her when she said that she would sit on the front row of a lynching.
02:02:33 --> 02:02:37 Whether that was in jest, whether she didn't understand the context of what
02:02:37 --> 02:02:39 she was saying, she said it.
02:02:39 --> 02:02:42 And then she doubled down on it when somebody called her out on it.
02:02:43 --> 02:02:49 So, yeah, I'm not down with any elected official that wants to be in the front
02:02:49 --> 02:02:50 row of a lynching. I'm not.
02:02:51 --> 02:02:56 That's kind of like a deal breaker for me.
02:02:59 --> 02:03:05 If y'all get Scott over that finish line, my Lord, my Lord, what a time, what a time.
02:03:06 --> 02:03:10 You thought you got some money from Thad Cochran. You thought you got some money
02:03:10 --> 02:03:13 from Roger Booker. You thought you got some money from John Stennis.
02:03:14 --> 02:03:20 Put that boy Cologne in there with a Democratic majority in the Senate. Oh, my Lord.
02:03:22 --> 02:03:27 Woo! Y'all just make sure that y'all dot your I's and cross the T's when the
02:03:27 --> 02:03:30 money coming. Y'all don't do nothing stupid where y'all getting indicted because
02:03:30 --> 02:03:33 they going to be watching you when you get that money.
02:03:34 --> 02:03:35 Just let you know the money is coming.
02:03:37 --> 02:03:42 He's going to have to turn down money. It's it's it's the potential is amazing.
02:03:43 --> 02:03:49 If we don't have any other screw ups like what's happening in Michigan right
02:03:49 --> 02:03:52 now, then you got you got the president.
02:03:52 --> 02:04:02 Saying, well, if the Democrat wins in Alaska, then they shouldn't certify the election.
02:04:03 --> 02:04:06 Bitch, who are you? No, that's not how that works.
02:04:07 --> 02:04:11 If your candidate you endorse gets his ass whooped, then he got his ass whooped.
02:04:11 --> 02:04:15 That's it. That's the end of the discussion. You can't, you can't after the
02:04:15 --> 02:04:19 game say, well, that game doesn't count because my team didn't win.
02:04:19 --> 02:04:22 No, That's not how that works. Do you know how many games I would love to have
02:04:22 --> 02:04:26 reversed just against the Packers alone as a Bears fan?
02:04:27 --> 02:04:30 Just against the Pistons alone where Jordan could have got two more rings.
02:04:30 --> 02:04:32 Bruh, what are you talking about?
02:04:33 --> 02:04:37 That's not how that works. That man put his name up there for the ballot and
02:04:37 --> 02:04:40 the majority of people of Alaska says to hell with him.
02:04:40 --> 02:04:43 He's out of there. End of discussion.
02:04:43 --> 02:04:50 Right? If the only thing you can say is something, I won't say crazy. Thank you.
02:04:51 --> 02:04:56 A dude who just happens to have the same name as Dan Sullivan not only got on
02:04:56 --> 02:04:59 the ballot but made it to the general election?
02:05:00 --> 02:05:04 Blame it on his parents that named him Dan Sullivan. Don't blame it on the young
02:05:04 --> 02:05:08 lady running as a Democrat because it's like you could tell somebody,
02:05:08 --> 02:05:10 hey, look, you got the same name and so on.
02:05:10 --> 02:05:13 So we're going to do this distinguished gentleman thing like Eddie Murphy did
02:05:13 --> 02:05:15 in the movie. You got the same name as a congressman.
02:05:16 --> 02:05:21 We slide you in there. You have to have the ego of Eddie Murphy's character,
02:05:21 --> 02:05:23 to say, yeah, I'll sign up for that.
02:05:24 --> 02:05:26 You ain't got to give him no, he didn't, man, ain't got no money.
02:05:27 --> 02:05:28 They said they paid him some money.
02:05:28 --> 02:05:33 Well, he blew it on something because he's sitting on only like 1900 bucks.
02:05:35 --> 02:05:41 So they gave him $300. He's got the best gambling alcohol addiction problem
02:05:41 --> 02:05:44 in history because he looks sober.
02:05:45 --> 02:05:50 He's still got his house and his car he's still fly fishing or whatever they
02:05:50 --> 02:05:52 do in Alaska, trout fishing, whatever,
02:05:53 --> 02:05:59 he's living that life but he only got $1 and he ain't got no signs he ain't
02:05:59 --> 02:06:03 got no TV commercials he's got $1 in the bank account,
02:06:04 --> 02:06:07 so somebody paid him off man,
02:06:08 --> 02:06:14 y'all better check that crypto I'm just saying bruh, what are you talking about?
02:06:15 --> 02:06:18 You can't sit there and say, well, Alaska is not going to count.
02:06:18 --> 02:06:20 Really? Well, why should Florida count then?
02:06:21 --> 02:06:27 If the Republicans, if Byron Donalds beats Jolly, if that Moody girl,
02:06:27 --> 02:06:28 I think that's the name Moody.
02:06:28 --> 02:06:33 She beats Angie Nixon. Then, okay, you want to take Alaska off the board?
02:06:33 --> 02:06:35 We'll take Florida off the board. How about that?
02:06:36 --> 02:06:39 Because either way it goes, the numbers are going to work out because also it's
02:06:39 --> 02:06:41 going to win. Cooper's going to win. And.
02:06:43 --> 02:06:48 From I think South Dakota said he ain't caucusing with us, but he will.
02:06:50 --> 02:06:58 On this issue, he will. Right? The guy from Nebraska, he going to caucus with us on this issue.
02:06:59 --> 02:07:03 Right? You got two or three independents out there. I think Montana's got one.
02:07:03 --> 02:07:07 Either Montana or Idaho. I think it's Montana. They got one.
02:07:10 --> 02:07:16 Then he'll join the gentleman from Maine, Mr. King, right?
02:07:16 --> 02:07:20 And that boy going to win. That Jackson boy, he going to win.
02:07:20 --> 02:07:26 He going to beat Susan Collins. Her streak is over. And, you know, it's been a good run.
02:07:26 --> 02:07:29 They counted you out, and you managed to scrape on through.
02:07:30 --> 02:07:34 I don't think there's enough scraping this time, Susan. I just don't.
02:07:34 --> 02:07:39 Now, she may be like Dexter. I thought the show was over, and now it's in its
02:07:39 --> 02:07:41 second season coming back.
02:07:42 --> 02:07:45 She may have that Dexter in her, but I don't think so. Not this time.
02:07:46 --> 02:07:52 Because, see, as they say down south, you was running against a city slicker last time.
02:07:53 --> 02:07:58 You running against one of them boys. When that person, it was somebody that
02:07:58 --> 02:08:03 said, somebody that was respected up in Maine, like a broadcaster or something.
02:08:03 --> 02:08:08 He did a commercial saying, well, you know, we'll buy some logs from this dude,
02:08:08 --> 02:08:09 but he can't be no senator.
02:08:10 --> 02:08:13 Bro, you just, you basically gave the election to Mr. Jackson.
02:08:14 --> 02:08:17 Because he turned right around and said, oh, it's like that.
02:08:18 --> 02:08:22 You want us to vote for you, but we can't represent the people.
02:08:22 --> 02:08:29 We're not good enough to represent the people in Maine, us log salesmen, really? Okay.
02:08:30 --> 02:08:36 That's all we needed to know. Game over. Just like Vivek in Ohio.
02:08:37 --> 02:08:41 You could have been the governor. You could have pulled it out. But you had to be Vivek.
02:08:42 --> 02:08:45 And so Dr. Acton is going to beat your brains out down there because you ran
02:08:45 --> 02:08:50 that stupid-ass commercial about you found her mama. Well, I talked about that last week.
02:08:50 --> 02:08:53 Hell no. Right? I mean, I'm just...
02:08:57 --> 02:09:02 You know, ain't nobody talking about Illinois. That's not flipping. Sister Stratton.
02:09:04 --> 02:09:07 Sister Stratton should already have her staff together. They should already.
02:09:09 --> 02:09:15 She should get the first pick in the office space for the new senators coming in.
02:09:16 --> 02:09:20 Because she's basically been elected since the primary, right? California.
02:09:22 --> 02:09:25 You know, the only race in California is who's going to be the mayor.
02:09:26 --> 02:09:30 If Karen Bass is going to stay in or the young lady that's the city council
02:09:30 --> 02:09:35 person who they're trying to say is the female mom, Donnie, it's going to be tight.
02:09:35 --> 02:09:40 But I'd rather have been those two than that reality TV scar,
02:09:40 --> 02:09:44 whatever his name is, Spencer, whatever his name is. I'm glad it was those two
02:09:44 --> 02:09:46 in the runoff for the general election.
02:09:48 --> 02:09:53 Right. But, you know, California, you're going to have a Democratic governor.
02:09:54 --> 02:09:58 So you're not flipping anything there, right? I'm just, I don't think you're
02:09:58 --> 02:09:59 going to beat the preacher in Kansas.
02:10:01 --> 02:10:04 The band has the largest Methodist church in the country.
02:10:05 --> 02:10:13 And he chose to run against you, Mr. Marshall, the man who sues people for $700 hospital bill.
02:10:14 --> 02:10:21 And you're an OBGYN too? So you're suing new mothers, women.
02:10:22 --> 02:10:27 You are suing them to get your medical bills paid.
02:10:31 --> 02:10:35 You do know that doesn't even go on the person's credit report right medical
02:10:35 --> 02:10:37 bills that's exempted so,
02:10:39 --> 02:10:45 what are you doing and then you run you with that kind of morality you got a
02:10:45 --> 02:10:49 preacher as your opponent good luck I don't think this is happening for you,
02:10:51 --> 02:10:59 of Tallarico down there in Texas. Man, Abbott is gone. Here's what I want to see.
02:11:00 --> 02:11:03 I don't want you to show nothing on the Senate race.
02:11:04 --> 02:11:07 I don't want to see no results between Tallarico and Parkinson.
02:11:07 --> 02:11:11 I don't want to see it. I just want to see Enhosa against Abbott.
02:11:11 --> 02:11:16 If Enhosa wins, Tallarico is going to win by double digits.
02:11:17 --> 02:11:24 Easy. I don't care if Enhosa wins 51-49. That means Tallarico then blew the socks off of him.
02:11:25 --> 02:11:30 And it might be close with Tallarico too. I doubt it because Kim Paxson is deplorable.
02:11:31 --> 02:11:38 But if Greg Abbott pulls it off, then Tallarico will only win by one or two points.
02:11:39 --> 02:11:44 Because see, Kim Paxson has to ride on Greg Abbott's tail if he wants to be in the Senate.
02:11:45 --> 02:11:50 But if N'Hosa wins, that means the Latinos, the black folks,
02:11:50 --> 02:11:57 and the liberal white folks at all the colleges in the big cities then showed up and showed out.
02:12:00 --> 02:12:04 But the panhandle folks might be like them Upper Peninsula folks in Michigan.
02:12:04 --> 02:12:09 They might be like the Florida panhandle folks. That Texas panhandle might have
02:12:09 --> 02:12:17 them. Folks in Lubbock might surprise you in that election, especially with Tala Rico. Oh, my God.
02:12:19 --> 02:12:24 It's South Carolina. Y'all in trouble. Republicans, y'all in trouble.
02:12:25 --> 02:12:32 Your best spokesperson said well the only reason why i'm voting for miss miss
02:12:32 --> 02:12:37 graham is because i don't even know her and but,
02:12:38 --> 02:12:44 donald trump said she was okay that's your motivation that's it you sound just
02:12:44 --> 02:12:47 like her when they ask her a question about national security it's like what
02:12:47 --> 02:12:51 about our relationship with tom wall i don't know nothing about that then why
02:12:51 --> 02:12:52 are you running for that position.
02:12:53 --> 02:12:57 You should have done a seance with your brother at the Ouija board out so you
02:12:57 --> 02:13:02 can answer that question because you might have to go into a treaty with Taiwan
02:13:02 --> 02:13:05 to keep China off of his back. I have to do it.
02:13:06 --> 02:13:10 But if I don't know nothing about it, then why are you even running?
02:13:11 --> 02:13:15 Because your brother had the job. Not your husband. Not your daddy.
02:13:16 --> 02:13:18 But your brother had the job. Lord.
02:13:20 --> 02:13:23 And then they trying to say, Oh, well, you know, Dr. Andrews,
02:13:23 --> 02:13:26 she's, she's, she's as far as wrestling.
02:13:27 --> 02:13:28 She's all for the trans people.
02:13:29 --> 02:13:33 Dr. Andrews is going to, her and Sarah McBride are going to have to have a conversation
02:13:33 --> 02:13:39 when she gets up there because she's, you know, she might have the Nancy Mace
02:13:39 --> 02:13:41 position about the bathrooms. I'm just telling you.
02:13:44 --> 02:13:47 She made it clear. Well, no, not the bathroom on the sports thing.
02:13:48 --> 02:13:54 She she said that she didn't want the trans athletes in high school sports. OK.
02:13:55 --> 02:13:58 Doesn't sound like a far left liberal to me.
02:13:59 --> 02:14:02 Just saying. So anyway,
02:14:04 --> 02:14:08 you know, the Republicans are going to take it on the chin, I think.
02:14:09 --> 02:14:17 And if not, then just remember some of the conversations we had in the interviews
02:14:17 --> 02:14:22 today and some of the previous conversations we had. And we'll get into it next week because...
02:14:25 --> 02:14:30 Republicans, but at least two of them are scheduled to come in next week.
02:14:31 --> 02:14:35 And we're going to talk about it and, you know, just kind of assess.
02:14:35 --> 02:14:40 You know, I just, if it doesn't turn out the way that I think it's going to
02:14:40 --> 02:14:45 turn, because right now, if I'm a Republican, I'm not looking good.
02:14:45 --> 02:14:53 If I'm Elon Musk, I'd stop spending money on campaigns and start retaining attorneys.
02:14:54 --> 02:14:58 You know, there There ought to be a law that says that if you are a billionaire,
02:14:59 --> 02:15:03 that puts you in a different class of campaign contribution.
02:15:04 --> 02:15:10 Because you have so much money that you can spend $400 million in one election cycle.
02:15:11 --> 02:15:14 That's more than some companies put in, bro.
02:15:15 --> 02:15:22 $400 million, that's more than some Fortune 500 companies with their PACs give to candidates.
02:15:23 --> 02:15:25 $400 million.
02:15:26 --> 02:15:32 So there ought to be a rule that says, whatever money you give to one,
02:15:32 --> 02:15:33 you got to give to the other party.
02:15:34 --> 02:15:39 You can't give $400 million to one party and not a dime to the other one.
02:15:39 --> 02:15:43 Oh, it's my freedom of speech. No, that's tipping the scale, bro.
02:15:44 --> 02:15:50 Because if you've made a billion dollars, a Democrat and a Republican has helped you get that money.
02:15:53 --> 02:15:58 Believe that. You got a contract that a Democrat and a Republican voted for.
02:15:59 --> 02:16:03 I remember them being having a big debate about you getting any SpaceX money.
02:16:04 --> 02:16:09 I didn't see until you started messing around with that Doge thing,
02:16:09 --> 02:16:16 you didn't have any opposition, you know, via the NASA funding to make sure you got paid.
02:16:17 --> 02:16:20 You know, there were Democrats driving Teslas. I don't know.
02:16:23 --> 02:16:29 Because we were the ones saying EVs. Republicans were like, we want the gas
02:16:29 --> 02:16:31 guzzlers. We don't want the EVs.
02:16:32 --> 02:16:38 That's why there's no network on the interstates for every car, just Teslas.
02:16:40 --> 02:16:48 I'm just saying. But if you're a billionaire, then if you give money to one,
02:16:48 --> 02:16:49 you got to give money to the other.
02:16:50 --> 02:16:54 You can be an asshole and give $1 to each party. That's great.
02:16:55 --> 02:17:00 Or you can not give any money. That'll be perfect.
02:17:02 --> 02:17:06 If billionaires basically decide, well, we're not going to give money to any
02:17:06 --> 02:17:11 candidates because of that law, hallelujah. Get the chorus moving.
02:17:12 --> 02:17:20 Get y'all out the game. because you got one dude giving $400 million to one side.
02:17:21 --> 02:17:22 That's crazy.
02:17:23 --> 02:17:29 Let me put that in perspective. Obama was the first billion-dollar presidential campaign, the first.
02:17:30 --> 02:17:40 So Elon Musk basically would have donated half of the money that Obama raised in 2008.
02:17:42 --> 02:17:47 That's insane. What, man? Now you gotta shut that down, bro. That can't happen.
02:17:50 --> 02:17:54 And the way that you do it is like, well, the Supreme Court,
02:17:54 --> 02:17:56 you know, there's a Congress.
02:17:57 --> 02:18:01 They can pass it. Once the Supreme Court ruling happens, Supreme Court ruling is case law.
02:18:02 --> 02:18:07 If there's no law written by Congress to supersede the case law,
02:18:07 --> 02:18:09 then the case law stands.
02:18:09 --> 02:18:15 But if Congress passes the law, then the case law is mute at that point because
02:18:15 --> 02:18:17 now they got to review the new law.
02:18:18 --> 02:18:21 That's how it's supposed to work. But when you have the weakest Speaker of the
02:18:21 --> 02:18:23 House ever, Mike Johnson, you wouldn't know that.
02:18:27 --> 02:18:30 Thank God he will not be the Speaker anymore, ever again.
02:18:31 --> 02:18:35 I would hope, and I pray for Gary Chambers Jr.
02:18:35 --> 02:18:38 Every day. If you don't know who Gary is, Gary ran for the U.S.
02:18:38 --> 02:18:43 Senate a few years ago, and he's been on fire ever since. He has been trying
02:18:43 --> 02:18:47 to get black folks in Louisiana. Black folks in Louisiana, you know why nobody's talking about y'all?
02:18:48 --> 02:18:52 Because Gary keep telling him y'all that y'all underperform.
02:18:53 --> 02:18:57 Just like y'all have that second line when that dearly beloved person passed,
02:18:57 --> 02:19:02 you need to have that same line marching to the polls, bro, in New Orleans and
02:19:02 --> 02:19:04 Baton Rouge and Lafayette and Shreveport.
02:19:04 --> 02:19:09 Not your docious. I don't even know what I'm saying in the name of the city right. Ruston.
02:19:10 --> 02:19:17 All y'all need to be, wherever you are, in that boot state, you need to be going to the polls.
02:19:17 --> 02:19:20 Ain't nothing else going on. The sugar can't wait.
02:19:21 --> 02:19:25 The fishing can wait. The oil refinery can take an hour break.
02:19:26 --> 02:19:31 Whatever industry you working in, whatever job you got, it doesn't make sense
02:19:31 --> 02:19:34 for Louisiana to underperform every election.
02:19:35 --> 02:19:39 The years that everybody else is setting a record. Black folks in Louisiana
02:19:39 --> 02:19:43 sitting at home. Why? Why are y'all sitting at home? Why?
02:19:44 --> 02:19:46 I'm sorry. I ain't gonna get on. I'll let Gary get on y'all. .
02:19:49 --> 02:19:54 And, you know, and hopefully black folks will stop playing with these folk.
02:19:54 --> 02:20:00 But that's why we got crazy Landry and crazy legislators where my man got to
02:20:00 --> 02:20:02 go in and clown them at the hearings.
02:20:04 --> 02:20:08 And, you know, they turn around and a black man get elected to a position and
02:20:08 --> 02:20:10 the legislature abolishes the position.
02:20:11 --> 02:20:14 Black folks, if y'all vote, that will never happen again.
02:20:15 --> 02:20:17 Just saying, you know.
02:20:18 --> 02:20:23 I know them folks at Southern Vote. I know them folks at Grambling Vote. It's the rest of y'all.
02:20:25 --> 02:20:28 And y'all got to get out there. Y'all got to get out there, man.
02:20:29 --> 02:20:32 Don't make sense for Louisiana to be struggling like that.
02:20:33 --> 02:20:36 Anyway, I done wore out my welcome today.
02:20:39 --> 02:20:44 I wore out my welcome today. But look, I appreciate y'all listening.
02:20:45 --> 02:20:52 And go to www.momenteric.com and show some love financially,
02:20:52 --> 02:20:55 write reviews, all that good stuff.
02:20:55 --> 02:20:59 If you want to catch up, several of the guests that came on today,
02:20:59 --> 02:21:03 they were talking about, oh, yeah, I went to the website and checked out a few
02:21:03 --> 02:21:08 of the episodes and all that stuff, get a kind of feel of what the interview
02:21:08 --> 02:21:10 is going to be like. Y'all can do that, too.
02:21:10 --> 02:21:15 So please support the website, www.momenteric.com.
02:21:17 --> 02:21:24 And if this is the last voice you hear before Election Day, get on.
02:21:24 --> 02:21:25 What does Jennifer Lewis say?
02:21:26 --> 02:21:28 Get your ass up and vote.
02:21:30 --> 02:21:31 Thank y'all for listening. Until next time.