THE POWER BEHIND THE ROLE! | Casting Director Matthew Morgan

[00:00:05] The Demia Avery Show, The Industry and guess what you guys as usual we have another special guest with us so let me ask you this question what does it take to spot a star before the rest of the world even knows their name well my guest today knows a thing or two about that so with more than 20 years in the entertainment industry and credits including The Card Counter Blue Bayou

[00:01:00] and Paradise Highway he's helped bring some unforgettable characters to the screen and get this he's originally he originally wanted to be an actor himself so you know we got a lot to talk about with that so get ready for some great stories a little industry insight and of course some fun please welcome casting director and owner of Morgan Casting Matthew Morgan welcome hey it's my pleasure to be here and I'm so grateful to hang with you and to get to know each other better and hopefully share some insight that

[00:01:30] that will help actors along the way I love what I do I truly love it and I feel blessed I can tell and guys his energy jumps off the screen so I know we're gonna have fun today so okay so my first question Matthew I read that you originally wanted to be an actor but somewhere along the way you discover you like being behind the camera better so here's what I want to know when you watch it when you're watching an actor audition does the former actor inside you ever come out and say it's a

[00:02:00] I know exactly what I know exactly what that poor person is going through and has it you know has that experience change how you treat actors in the audition room

[00:02:11] such a great question and even to this day you know 20 years into my career I can empathize for an actor you know for having done it for so many years I remember what it felt like to just need to get a foot in the door to want to have someone take a chance on you praying for an opportunity to open a door to open and I remember what it felt like being in intimidated rooms and having to sort of read the room and you know

[00:02:39] acting can be in the room and you know acting can be in the room and you know acting can be a tough job it's certainly a job with a lot of beautiful rewards but it can be tough at times and I always said to myself if I ever became a casting director and hopped on the other side you know I would want to make actors feel really warm and welcome in my space you know my sort of approach to bringing out a great performance from someone is to uplift them and encourage them and to make them feel really

[00:03:09] really warm and supported everyone's got a different approach and you know what's going on and to be really warm and supported everyone's got a different approach and you have to be prepared for different approaches I do as well in my career every director is a bit different every producer is a bit different you sort of have to read your clients but I do put myself in the shoes of the actors and I really try to create the best environment for them to succeed because I remember how tough it can be.

[00:03:31] Yeah I love that I love that and you know a lot of people that aren't actors if they're just wanting to be an actor they think it's such an easy job they think you know you read a script you memorize it you go on camera okay when am I going to be a star? How long is it's all this going to be a star? How long is all this going to take?

[00:03:53] You know so you did something I find fascinating street casting where you find everyday people who may have never acted a day in their lives. Have you discovered like someone and thought this person doesn't even know that they're talented?

[00:04:12] Absolutely. You know in the beginning of my career I did mostly commercial casting and commercial advertising and although I'm from the deep south Mississippi is my home state I had moved to Toronto Canada for work and work corporate work eventually I got into acting when I was in Toronto it was a big city with a lot of agencies and when I first started working for a casting company there I specialized in real people casting.

[00:04:41] Where we would hit the streets with our Polaroid camera before the digital camera came out. Okay. And we would look for kind of cool and unique characters skateboarder kids, punks, goths, we were doing a lot of music videos at the time, a lot of commercial advertising where we were looking for just you know real folks that weren't professional actors that didn't do this for their livelihood.

[00:05:05] And along the way you would run into people who were naturally gifted and you know they just hadn't taken the classes or didn't have an agent yet but I could tell they had great actor instincts, good natural instincts and some star quality to them. And there was something about them that really drew me in, they had a great presence, a confidence. So, you know, I really enjoyed that process.

[00:05:33] You know, now, nowadays, the street casting doesn't exist like it used to we were actually on the streets. You know I was going through the French Quarter of New Orleans when I was street casting there hitting up bars and restaurants and getting servers and bartenders you know nowadays you've got Facebook and Instagram and everything's through social media for the younger newer casting directors that come up it's a completely different search. You know, I bet.

[00:05:59] Wow, okay so let me ask you this as a casting director so let's say an actor comes in and they absolutely nails the audition. Everybody loves them but they still don't get the part. Now we always hear that it's not necessarily the actors fault. Can you take us behind the scenes and give us a real example how somebody can do everything right and still not get the job. It happens all the time, you know, in theory, it would be amazing if the most talented person always got booked.

[00:06:29] Yeah, but there's a lot of other factors that come into play, you know, I presented some really talented actors to my clients directors and producers, and oftentimes. They may have a vision in their head. Many times the directors are also the writers of their stories, and the whole time they've been writing the script they've envisioned someone for the part. So sometimes you may have an actor who's good who's pretty talented and could certainly do a great job.

[00:06:57] But the they looked exactly like the director had envisioned that role and they can often get the part so sometimes, you know, you can lose a part just based on physical attributes. You know, the director, I really love this redheaded lady playing this, you know, this role, but it reminded the director of his school teacher in second grade he couldn't stand, you know, like, sometimes you get like, this is just life and human nature.

[00:07:25] Sometimes, you know, sometimes, you know, an actor can resemble someone that the client just didn't like that look or reminded them of something going on in their own world. Yeah. I can audition people for the part everyone could be great and all of a sudden it goes to the investors niece. There's things like that that happened behind the scenes so I can audition some amazing ladies for the role of.

[00:07:52] Of the daughter, say she's in her 20s, and all of a sudden we book Lisa Bonet as the mom, the ethnicity change so all the ladies who read for my daughter may no longer be appropriate because our star change. Right. So sometimes, you know, as actors, I always tell actors when you go in for the part, give it your all, give it your very best and leave it on the floor and walk out the door.

[00:08:17] And if it's meant to be, it will be, you know, and what they're not privy to are all the things that happen behind the scenes where it went to an investors contact or all of a sudden our lead actor changed ethnicity so none of these people would work or the role got cut from the script. Completely just things you aren't privy to and you know you're thinking all along I didn't do a great job I I didn't get the part but no one got the part so it had nothing to do with you. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:47] So there's all those factors that come into play that the actors just often don't know about. Yeah. And, you know, it's a hard industry where you really have to keep yourself motivated and your heart has to be in it. You have to love it to love the process. And, you know, it does help once in a while when you do get that booking it sort of I've got so many actor friends are like, I just needed that one booking to keep me going to give me the faith, the sign right.

[00:09:15] You know, and those little things are important along the way but, you know, the average actor spends most of their career auditioning and a small portion of their career actually playing the role. And the wrong. So your job as an actor is to audition. So don't forget that. No kidding. No kidding. No, I gotta ask you this. Okay. So actors are always trying to read the room.

[00:09:40] So when you see an audition you absolutely love, are you able to keep that poker face or can you can the actor tell, you know, that you're impressed. And on the flip side, have you ever had an audition that didn't seem particularly impressive in that moment, but you couldn't stop thinking about it afterwards. You know, there have been actors that have left marks for better or for worse after almost every casting.

[00:10:06] You know, I really do a great job. You know, just my nature as a human being is to find something positive to say about every performance and there almost always is. You can find a compliment to make someone walk out of that room and feel great. And I think that's partially my job for me as a, as a casting director. That's something I've deemed as, as an important aspect of what I do.

[00:10:31] And if it is important for me to point out something negative, which it often can be a learning tool for actors, I will let them know and in a very sort of respectfully, a respectful way of positive criticism. Right. In effect. So, but I do try to keep, you know, I save face and I put my acting skills to test. Now, if someone's done a great job, they will often know it.

[00:11:00] I'm all about giving praise in the moment. Okay. Yeah. I think it's important for the actor to know, because very often, rarely do the actors get feedback from us once they leave the audition, be it virtual or live. You know, casting directors get so busy that it's often hard for us to take time to give feedback. Yeah. And many actors, I hear friends of mine saying, you know, I just don't want to ask for feedback. I don't want to intrude or be irksome, you know, and so forth.

[00:11:30] So if I can give feedback in the moment, it's such a beautiful opportunity. Yeah. Yeah. I try to. Why do you think that a lot of casting directors, not just in film, just every, you know, for other things, they have to keep that poker face. Is it that they don't want you to know how good you are or good or bad, or maybe they don't want to overexcite you because you may or may not get the role because of something, you know? I don't know.

[00:11:59] Do you tell me? I agree with you. I think, you know, if someone comes in and they do a really great job, I'll compliment them, but I don't want to lift them up so much that they sort of let down their guard for the next read, right? We want them to still be at the top of their game, to still be in that actor zone, that actor state of mind. Yeah.

[00:12:19] So after the camera has stopped and the actor is headed out the door, be it virtual or in person, that's the time for me to really give them some praise. Or even after the fact, I will email their agents, which they love. Then you've got a paper trail. Right. The agent can see how great they've done. It makes them look really good. And they've earned it, right? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let me ask you this. You'd know. I will say one more thing.

[00:12:46] If I've got, I want to answer, I think I can better answer that question. If I have clients in the room and it's a callback, I have to be careful that I don't persuade them too much in my own direction. You know, my job is to present the best people that I truly believe in. Yeah. And then creatively, I want my clients to decide, you know, who they like best.

[00:13:07] And if they come to me and ask me for recommendations or to help divide on a decision, I'm more than happy to do my job and give them my honest opinion. But I don't want to sway them in one direction too soon. Right. Yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. It actually leads me to my next question. I like to ask this question to casting directors because everyone has a different, you know, perspective on it.

[00:13:31] Um, now because you worked on so many different productions and you work with some pretty recognizable names. Have you ever fought for an actor that the directors or producers weren't initially sold on? Absolutely. Um, if I get my callback list and there's someone missing that I really believe in and thought just knocked it out of the park.

[00:13:55] Someone that I have confidence in recommending so strongly, I will go out on a limb and, and confidently recommend them to my clients. People love confidence and you can sell anything if you truly believe in it. And that's sort of my job as a casting director is to sell these actors to my clients that I wholeheartedly believe in and think they can fulfill that the duties of that role and do a great job. And it often pays off, you know, it's worth a shot.

[00:14:22] You're, it's like, you're never going to know unless you try, um, you're never going to get something unless you ask for it. So I'll take that opportunity. Um, very, very often to, to do that. And I also have to read the room, you know, I may have some clients who are very set in their ways and, um, calling the shots and I don't feel comfortable doing that. And I will sort of tread lightly, you know? Yeah.

[00:14:48] Um, but if we've really established a good rapport and just some great trust from the get go. It works, it works well. And I think, you know, clients like that. They know that I work with all these Southern actors in the region and I know them well. And many times, you know, when we're shooting in the Southern U S people will come in from other places. So they rely on our expertise to help guide them. And, um, they love it when you can recommend people. So I try to. Yeah.

[00:15:18] Now I wonder sometimes if actors are so concerned about giving casting directors exactly what they feel. They think you want that they forget to make interesting choices. Do you find that happening? And, and how does an actor take a, like a creative risk in an audition without going too far off the rails? Like everybody's looking like what the world was that? This is such a great question. Yeah. Here's my honest take on it.

[00:15:47] And, you know, my rules aren't the golden rules. Take it with a grain of salt. I have over my career worked with a lot of casting directors from some very large markets and I learned from them, which I love. Um, I'm never at the stage in my career where I think I know it all. Right. I love learning from others. And my best advice, uh, to any actor is of course, first and foremost, follow the instructions as written. Hmm. Follow the instructions as written.

[00:16:14] If you're given the opportunity to read your sides more than once, let's say twice, which tends to be pretty average, pretty normal. Once in a blue moon, you'll get to read it three times. And that's usually if the dialogue isn't super lengthy. Let's say a day player role, a couple of lines, you know, I'll tell the actors read it once as written. Mm-hmm. Exactly as written. Cause you're paying homage to the writer who could sometimes be your director. Right. Um, you've done your homework. You've read it word for word.

[00:16:44] Nobody's going to get upset. Right. Right. The second time, um, I say, read it as written and show us some different actor choices. You know, you definitely don't want to repeat read as the first read. You want to mix it up and show some range. Mm-hmm. And I find this is the opportunity where most actors do a slightly different read from their first read. Okay. That's what, that's called playing it safe.

[00:17:10] In my opinion, if you've done your first read exactly like you feel this character should be, you've done your beautiful character development, you've nailed it. On your second read, I think it's more interesting to take it somewhere completely different. Mm-hmm. Do a 180, take a risk, show me your range. Especially if you've never worked with this casting director for, you've got before, you've got like a small window of time to wow me, to show me what you're capable of.

[00:17:37] So I love it on that alt read if you can take it to a drastically different place. Yeah. Um, I don't expect you to do that on set cause it may not be true to the character. Right. Um, but for audition purposes, I think it's great cause I'm watching all of these auditions and then all of a sudden I'm like, whoa, she went somewhere I didn't even expect. It's memorable. It's a choice that you make that's memorable. Um, now the hard part is, is many actors say, well, it feels forced. It doesn't feel true to the character, right?

[00:18:04] So there's this fine line of making sure you don't stray so far that you're doing yourself a disjustice. So having said all that, follow your instincts. Usually your instincts are on, on point. Um, but I like it when you can do your first read exactly as written, give it your all just like it's supposed to be in your mind. Your second read, you can take it to a different place.

[00:18:27] And then on your third read, if you get that luxury, I would sort of make it your own a little bit where you can put your own spin on it. Lightly change the words. Yeah. Uh, you know, don't go full improv on us. Um, who's script, who's script and what page is that? Oh, man. I hope that helped if it made sense. Sort of my explanation there. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So, okay.

[00:18:56] Let's talk, uh, chemistry, chemistry reads. So, two actors can be individually wonderful. Yeah. But put them together or something, something just ain't clicking. Sure. So what are you watching for when you're pairing actors? And have you seen, ever seen two performers who seem completely wrong for each other on paper, but together they were magic? You know, oftentimes I find actors can turn it on when the camera's on and they seem lovely together. Yeah.

[00:19:25] But it's that sort of banter when the camera's off, when I see how they truly interact with one another that I think can be the real telltale signs. Yeah. Do they respect one another? Are they, um, passing the torch and letting each other shine? If you have one actor sort of trying to steal the limelight, to me that's a sign of the testament of one's character. Yeah.

[00:19:47] Um, so I don't always look for just the most talented performer, but when I have the opportunity, I look for people that I also think are good people that will represent me and my company on set. And it's rare as casting directors that we get that insight because, um, the live casting sessions that we used to have so often don't happen as much, particularly after COVID. Um, based on distance in the Southeast with all these satellites, smaller markets and so forth.

[00:20:15] If you live in a big city like Atlanta, New York, Toronto, LA, you can certainly do live castings on the regular, but it's harder when you're working in smaller markets like Jackson, Mississippi, or Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Little Rock, Arkansas, different places that I cast where we do everything virtually because it keeps all the actors on the same page in terms of fairness, which I love. Um, yeah. I love Mississippi. I don't know.

[00:20:42] I don't know if Jerry ever told you, did you know our family is from Mississippi? That's our hometown. I did not know that. I love it. We're from Jackson. Yes. That's great. I, um, was born in McCall, Mississippi. Okay. Same hospital as Brandy, Britney Spears. Okay. I sure was. And, uh, I grew up in, uh, Canton, Mississippi, just north, just north of Jackson on the outskirts. And, um, and I loved it.

[00:21:07] Um, you know, I fought really hard to sort of get out of Mississippi when I was a teenager graduating, you know, college, high school and going into college. And, um, you know, it's interesting how. Um, you know, it's interesting how. Flashing back, you know, flashing forward, you know, 20 years into my career, I end up coming back to the one place I was ready to leave. Um, to do what I love, you know, I wanted to sort of see the world. I moved to France and worked there for a while.

[00:21:34] I moved to Canada and got my feet wet there as an actor and worked as a casting director. And then over time I really missed home and my family and my grandparents. And I thought, could I do what I do up here back home? And, uh, I took a leap of faith and came back and opened up my company and it just opened so many wonderful doors for me. And it was a real big blessing. So yeah, but I work all over the South.

[00:22:00] Um, I have an office in New Orleans and live and live in New Orleans and love it. Yeah. And, um, I bring in actors on all the projects I cast primarily in Mississippi and Louisiana from across the Southern US. Particularly, I know all the Atlanta agents so well. Yeah. Atlanta has such a beautiful roster of talent. Yeah. You know, so I love my Southern zone. Well, you know what? I heard you mention Canada.

[00:22:26] Um, and, and I, I wanted to ask you too, because a lot of times the actors assume being in the bigger places like LA and New York and things like that. What advantages do you think might an actor in a smaller market have that they don't realize? Especially now, because now that you, you know, you're really in the South now. So you could probably attest to, you know, what makes it better? Or, you know, I've lived in Toronto for over 20 years. It's the fourth largest city in North America.

[00:22:56] There are thousands of actors. I would say there's almost 300 talent agencies. And I have many friends that are actors here. And there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of work coming through because there's so much crew and there's so much actor, um, actors and talent. However, there's a lot of competition. So, um, whereas I have friends that are actors in New Orleans and for a city like New Orleans, which historically has been very busy and there's a lot of great films rolling through.

[00:23:24] I would say there's a smaller cluster of actors who are doing a lot. Um, they are working. You will see them in this film and that film. The opportunity can be there. Um, in the smaller markets, if it's a busy market with a good crew base, you have the opportunity to shine a little bit more. Um, because there's less competition. Right. Yeah.

[00:23:47] Um, you know, on the flip side, um, a city like Atlanta, you're getting some massive jobs rolling through some really large productions. Right. So, um, there's different calibers of film and TV series that will flip through these different markets. Okay. Um, but yeah, you know, as an actor, you, for me as a casting director, you know, I could. I have easily gone to New York. I could have easily gone to Los Angeles.

[00:24:15] I chose to live in Mississippi and Louisiana because I have family there in both states. And they were places that I just loved. I thought this is where my heart is. I can retire here and I will be the best casting director I can be in these markets. I already lived in a big city, Toronto, and got a taste of that. Right. So, um, so when I decided to open up my company in the U S I chose places that, um, that I absolutely loved. Like cities that had my heart. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

[00:24:45] Life's too short, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Matthew, I'm going to give you the floor on this one. If you could sit every actor in America down today for five minutes and clear up one misconception about a casting director or a casting process, what would you tell them? I think the biggest misconception that actors may have about casting directors is that we're out to get them.

[00:25:11] Um, we are on your side, whether we're nice and lovely by nature or tough as nails, you're going to get a different sort of range of approaches and personalities from casting directors. But we can't do our job without you. We can't play all those roles. We can't play all those parts. We need you. Um, and we need you to be great. So we look great. Yeah. So know that all the things we're doing.

[00:25:39] And how hard we can come on, come down on you sometimes is really for your own good. Yeah. We are trying to make you the best skilled actor you can be, the most professional business person you can be. There's two different sides of acting, right? There's the craft and then there's the business side of it, right? So I think a lot of actors are intimidated by casting directors. They also have to remember, I've watched so many casting directors speak over the years and one of the reoccurring sentences I hear is, I used to be an actor.

[00:26:09] So we, many of us know exactly what you're going through. We have been in your shoes. You know, I know what it feels like to come to a new market, um, to be the new fish in the big pond, to have no one know who you are, to have no work on your resume. And how do you get started? You just need somebody to take a chance on you. Right. I've lived it, um, through my own story.

[00:26:35] So, um, you know, when I, I had worked in Toronto for 10 years, maybe a little bit longer. And when I first decided to move back to Mississippi and open up my business, I just thought all this work's going to start rolling my way. You know, um, the film industry had really picked up at that time. The help had just come out. Some big movies were rolling through. True Blood had just happened in Louisiana. Some big stuff was going on in the Southern U.S.

[00:27:01] And I underestimated what it took to start fresh and build your way up. Yeah. So I was a commercial casting director for the longest time and I had no film work on my resume, but I wanted to do movies. So how do you do a movie when you have no movie work on your resume? Right, right. You need someone to take a chance on you.

[00:27:19] So I remember what it was like, you know, shopping around my resume, um, to producers and directors and, you know, having to sort of restart from the bottom and build myself up. And, uh, and I looked out, I had a really lucky break and that's a different story or we could talk about if you wanted to, but I had somebody take a chance on me that really shifted my career. And, um, and I know how that feels. So actors, you know, we, we know exactly what you're going through. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:50] Wow. Now, Matthew, we've been talking about auditions. Yeah. Casting decisions, all the things the actors need to know, but I want to find out a little bit more about you. So we're going to play a little game called I'd rather. All right. That means I'm going to give you two choices and you got to tell me which one you'd rather do. Now, some of these might be easy. Some might make you question your entire career, but we're going to have a little fun. So are you ready? I'm ready. Okay. Let's do it.

[00:28:20] First question. I'd rather cast an actor who gives me exactly what I envisioned or an actor who completely changes my mind about a character. An actor who completely changes my mind about a character. Hmm. Oh yeah. Okay. Because that shows me they, they have no fear and they trusted their instincts and they weren't scared to go with their gut and show me what they wanted to show me. That's right. That's right. Okay.

[00:28:46] I'd rather cast a romantic comedy with two actors who can't stand each other in real life or a drama with two actors who can't stop laughing. A drama with two actors who can't stop laughing. Okay. Okay. I'd rather discover the next Oscar winning actor working at a grocery store or discover the next superstar singing karaoke at a neighborhood bar.

[00:29:16] Ooh, that's a tough one. Music is certainly in my wheelhouse. Okay. So I would go with the second. With the second. Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. I love, I love any opportunity when music is involved. Yeah, absolutely. Nice. Okay. I'd rather work with a brilliant director who changes their mind every five minutes or a director who knows exactly what they want, but refuses to listen to anybody else's ideas.

[00:29:49] The latter. Okay. Yes. You know, it ain't gotta be great, but I'll take an easy ride. Would you take an easy ride? I'll say that because I've done the other many a time and I feel like I've had my taste of it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I paid my dues.

[00:30:12] I'd rather have to cast a movie where every character is a villain or a movie where every character is a superhero. Ooh. The villains could be fun. Okay. I'm going for the villains. Oh yeah. I think it's often a harder role to play and make it believable and great. Yeah. Love it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Two more questions. All right.

[00:30:38] I'd rather have an actor who's absolutely phenomenal, but always 20 minutes late or an actor who's always early, but needs 15 takes to get the scene right. Being late is not an option. Okay. It's all going to be downhill from there. Okay. Yes. Yeah. All right. So we're going with the 15 takes. We're going with the 15 takes.

[00:31:07] It's going to be a long day, but I know I can count on you. Right. Right. Okay. My last question. I'd rather spend an entire weekend digging through record stores, looking for that one perfect, perfect vinyl album or spend a weekend watching undiscovered actors perform at a theater festival. Have you been doing some research on me? This is a little bit, just a little bit.

[00:31:34] I am a massive vinyl collector, lover of vinyl. I can camp out in the record store and flip to my heart's content. Yes. Although I do love supporting actors and going to their live events. Yeah. I will happily flip through the records. Yes. Oh yeah. I'm impressed. Awesome. Awesome. Matthew. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. And I appreciate you giving us all your industry insights and please come back again.

[00:32:02] Anytime you, you, you're ready to come back. Would that be okay? It would absolutely be okay. And you've got such a beautiful spirit. You made me feel so comfortable and at ease. Oh, thank you. So there's your deserved compliment of the day. Oh, thank you so much. All right, guys, make sure you check out Morgan Casting and we are out of here. Talk to you soon. Bye-bye. Bye.