Erik Fleming hosts a wide-ranging episode featuring Fox contributor Leslie Marshall, Bloomberg journalist Charlie Wells, and scholar Dr. Vincent Adejumo. Conversations cover protests and arrests in Minnesota, the state of the Trump administration, millennial identity and politics, and the rise of Black nationalism and reparations.
Guests share personal stories, political analysis, and practical proposals — from media accountability and political strategy to the need for economic institutions and grassroots organizing within Black communities.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
00:00:09 --> 00:00:12 If you like what you're hearing, then I need you to do a few things.
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:24 Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the freedom to speak
00:00:24 --> 00:00:27 truth to power, and to expand and improve the show.
00:00:28 --> 00:00:32 Second, leave a five-star review for the podcast on the streaming service you
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 listen to it. That will help the podcast tremendously.
00:00:36 --> 00:00:41 Third, go to the website, momenterik.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,
00:00:42 --> 00:00:47 leave reviews and comments, listen to past episodes, and even learn a little bit about your host.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:51 Lastly, don't keep this a secret like it's your own personal guilty pleasure.
00:00:52 --> 00:00:57 Tell someone else about the podcast. Encourage others to listen to the podcast
00:00:57 --> 00:01:02 and share the podcast on your social media platforms, because it is time to
00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 make this moment a movement.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:10 Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 Hello, and welcome to another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:07 And we have a great show for you this episode.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:13 We're going to be talking to a young lady who fights the good fight for us on Fox News.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:20 We got a young man who took it upon himself to defend his generation of millennials.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:28 And we got a brother who has done some scholarly work on Black nationalism.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:36 And so, as you can see, it's a wide range of topics, but it's all very timely
00:02:36 --> 00:02:40 and all very entertaining guests.
00:02:40 --> 00:02:45 And I think you'll appreciate the conversations that we have.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:55 So I want to give an update before we send it to Grace. You're going to hear...
00:02:56 --> 00:03:02 In the news summary that there was an arrest made, following what's been happening
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 in Minnesota after the murder of Renee Good,
00:03:05 --> 00:03:14 there was a group of activists who went to a church that is pastored by the
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 director of ICE in the Twin Cities.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:24 And the group went there to the Sunday service and staged a protest.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:29 A lot of you may have heard of it because they were trying to arrest Don Lemon,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:31 who was just there to cover it.
00:03:32 --> 00:03:37 But the young lady that we had on last week, Nekima Levy Armstrong,
00:03:37 --> 00:03:44 who, you know, gave us an update about what's going on in Minnesota and how
00:03:44 --> 00:03:48 they're dealing with that situation up there, the total ICE invasion.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 She was one of the organizers of the protest, and so they arrested her.
00:03:52 --> 00:04:00 So she's one of three people that got arrested and they could not get an indictment on Mr. Lemon.
00:04:00 --> 00:04:04 And that, you know, because he was a reporter and that's, I mean,
00:04:04 --> 00:04:10 he was just there to cover the story. But Sister Levy Armstrong was one of the
00:04:10 --> 00:04:13 organizers of the protest, and so she was arrested.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:18 So, yeah, I'll pray for her and the others to get out.
00:04:18 --> 00:04:25 And, you know, I think the way things are going that, you know,
00:04:25 --> 00:04:31 after the November elections, that case and some others are going to be dropped.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:37 You know, because, you know, they're trying to invoke an act called the Ku Klux Klan Act,
00:04:38 --> 00:04:43 which was designed to keep white supremacists from burning down black churches,
00:04:43 --> 00:04:48 but they wanted to apply it to this protest.
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 So, you know, the indictment thing happened.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 You know, if you couch it a certain way, you can get the indictment.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:04 But what they did, from what I saw in the videos, was nothing more than just a protest.
00:05:04 --> 00:05:10 They didn't harm anybody in the face, anything. They just were being disruptive at the church.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:19 And so it's not anything worth a felony charge. If they had burned the church down, okay.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:26 But, you know, The protests in the church is like, most protests I've seen have
00:05:26 --> 00:05:27 been outside the church.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:35 I've never seen anybody be allowed to come into the church and protest. So there's that.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:44 But, you know, it happened. And so we're praying for Nekima and the others to
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 not only get out, but to get those charges dropped.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:55 And you know but if you know like I said she's she's been a guest a couple of
00:05:55 --> 00:06:01 times on this podcast and so if you know to keep this podcast open so people
00:06:01 --> 00:06:02 like Nekima can come on and
00:06:03 --> 00:06:08 explain what's going on whatever support you can give we greatly appreciate
00:06:08 --> 00:06:15 that but I do appreciate you all listening so please go to the www.momenterik.com
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 and continue to show the support for the podcast.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:22 All right. Now we've updated y'all on that.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:29 It's time to kick this program off. And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:40 Thanks, Erik. Federal authorities arrested three Minneapolis activists,
00:06:40 --> 00:06:45 including Nekima Levy Armstrong, for allegedly obstructing a house of worship
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 during a protest against a pastor with ties to ICE leadership.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 Former special counsel Jack Smith testified before a House committee to defend
00:06:53 --> 00:06:58 his past investigations into Donald Trump's actions after the 2020 election.
00:06:58 --> 00:07:03 A U.S. appeals court overturned a federal judge in Minnesota who restricted U.S.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 Immigration agents from using retaliatory tactics or detaining peaceful protesters
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 following the fatal shooting of Renee Good.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:14 The Justice Department has subpoenaed Minnesota state and city officials to
00:07:14 --> 00:07:18 investigate whether their opposition to federal immigration enforcement surges
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 constitutes a lack of cooperation.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:26 President Trump has issued a pardon for former Puerto Rico Governor Wanda Vasquez
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 Garced, who was indicted in 2022 on a federal bribery charge.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 Virginia's Democratic controlled legislature has approved a constitutional amendment
00:07:34 --> 00:07:38 to allow lawmakers to redraw congressional lines. A U.S.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:44 District judge in Virginia ordered prosecutor Lindsay Halligan to stop identifying herself as a U.S.
00:07:44 --> 00:07:48 Attorney following a ruling that her appointment was unlawful.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:52 A New York judge ordered the state's only Republican-held congressional district
00:07:52 --> 00:07:54 to be redrawn by February 6.
00:07:54 --> 00:07:59 President Trump backed away from threats to impose tariffs to acquire Greenland,
00:07:59 --> 00:08:01 instead seeking a strategic deal
00:08:01 --> 00:08:05 with NATO allies to secure Arctic defense interests and mineral access.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:11 A Texas jury acquitted a former school police officer of all 29 felony child
00:08:11 --> 00:08:16 endangerment charges related to his response during the 2022 mass shooting at
00:08:16 --> 00:08:18 Robb Elementary School in Uvalde.
00:08:18 --> 00:08:23 A Mississippi jury acquitted a white Mississippi man of all charges related
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 to the 2025 hit-and-run death of a 10-year-old black boy, Jordan Hill.
00:08:28 --> 00:08:30 And South Carolina health officials
00:08:30 --> 00:08:35 reported that the state's measles outbreak has grown to 646 cases.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:39 I am Grace Gee, and this has been A Moment of News.
00:08:46 --> 00:08:51 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for
00:08:51 --> 00:08:53 my guest, Leslie Marshall.
00:08:54 --> 00:08:58 Leslie Marshall is a nationally syndicated radio host who has been hosting a
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 liberal talk show for over 30 years.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:07 The youngest female to host a political issues-oriented program back in 1992
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 when she replaced Tom Snyder on the ABC radio network.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:16 Marshall branched out into television and is now a Fox News contributor on Fox
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 News Channel, where she's been a part of that crew for over 18 years.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:25 Leslie can be seen regularly on such shows as Special Report,
00:09:26 --> 00:09:32 Outnumbered, The Faulkner Focus, The Story, and she also sits in on The Five.
00:09:33 --> 00:09:37 Leslie also does public speaking events and is an ambassador for Northeastern
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 University, where she did her undergrad degree.
00:09:40 --> 00:09:44 She also attended the master's program at Emerson.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:49 Originally from Boston, Leslie now makes her home in Los Angeles with her husband,
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 their two children, and their dog.
00:09:51 --> 00:09:57 She is grateful to have just moved back into their home after it was damaged in the Eden Canyon fire.
00:09:58 --> 00:10:02 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 on this podcast, Leslie Marshall.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 All right. Leslie Marshall, how are you doing, ma'am? You doing good?
00:10:21 --> 00:10:24 I'm doing good. Thank you for asking. How about you? I'm doing good.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 I'm doing good, you know, considering the times that we're in.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:31 But I'm blessed to be here and be able to have this podcast and be able to have
00:10:31 --> 00:10:34 somebody like you to come on.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:40 And for my listeners, Leslie Marshall, if we were talking in Revolutionary War
00:10:40 --> 00:10:48 terms, Leslie Marshall is a daughter of liberty that resides in a Tory town, if that makes sense.
00:10:49 --> 00:10:56 Totally. She has been a stalwart on Fox since. How long have you been on Fox?
00:10:57 --> 00:11:03 I've been under contract with Fox for over 18 years, but I've been on Fox like over 20.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:07 And I say that because a lot of people probably aren't aware when they watch
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 talking heads or political pundits, as many of us are referred to,
00:11:10 --> 00:11:16 on networks, cable or non-cable major networks, most people you're watching aren't being paid.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 But when you hear somebody like me referred to as a Fox News contributor,
00:11:21 --> 00:11:22 that means you're on the payroll.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:29 So I always say back in the day, I was on Fox and CNN and CNBC and MSNBC,
00:11:29 --> 00:11:33 and then Roger Ailes put a ring on it.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 So I've been under contract just with Fox over 18.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:44 Okay, yeah. So, like I said, she's been there for almost a duration of the network.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:49 So she has been since, you know, this is my podcast.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:53 She's been our voice on Fox News for a long time.
00:11:55 --> 00:12:00 Leslie, what I normally like to do is I do a couple of icebreakers to kind of kick the interview off.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:05 So the first icebreaker I do is a quote that I want you to respond to.
00:12:05 --> 00:12:10 And the quote is, never lie about what you believe.
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 Oh, I love that quote. Let me tell you why.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:19 Years ago, when I was first starting in talk radio, didn't have any TV that
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 I was doing, I was in Miami, Florida.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:26 I was doing news at a station called WNWS, which I think is still there.
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30 It was a 50-watt powerhouse, so you could get calls from Cuba,
00:12:30 --> 00:12:36 you know? and I was invited to a Passover dinner by this woman who had been
00:12:36 --> 00:12:39 the publicist for a woman I interviewed who had written a book.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 And I say that because I was then at the time just starting talk radio and I
00:12:44 --> 00:12:47 was doing the 6 a.m. to 9 a.m.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 Weekend shift that nobody wanted and hardly anybody listened to.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:56 And so this woman was really nice and invited me because I didn't have a lot a family in Miami.
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 I'm from Boston, and I was fairly new to town. And when I walked in,
00:13:00 --> 00:13:04 she said a friend would be joining who I might be interested in meeting, and it was Larry King.
00:13:06 --> 00:13:10 And Larry and I became fast friends. We were friends throughout his whole life.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:17 And at the beginning, I asked him, do you have any tips for me as a talk show host on radio?
00:13:17 --> 00:13:21 Because I would like to do TV, you know, someday. And I would like to get off
00:13:21 --> 00:13:23 the 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. Saturday, Sunday shift.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 And he said, always tell the truth.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:33 Even if it's not popular, even if it's not what your group believes,
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 always tell the truth. And that's what I try and do.
00:13:36 --> 00:13:40 I think that's why I've lasted so long at what I'm doing is because I do do that.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:45 I don't just tow the Democratic Party line. I do question people that are on
00:13:45 --> 00:13:47 my side, the left of the aisle.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:51 But yeah, so that quote is very powerful. I do believe that.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:56 So now the next icebreaker is what we call 20 questions. Okay.
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:04 Of how many questions you're going to ask or the question you pick?
00:14:04 --> 00:14:06 Pick the question to pick.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:14 Oh, let's do 18. All right. What is one thing we might all agree is important
00:14:14 --> 00:14:15 no matter our differences?
00:14:16 --> 00:14:20 I think a better, safer, healthier world for our children.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:25 And I think that's something worldwide. I've been blessed to travel the world.
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 I've lived in other countries. Pretty much everybody wants a better life for
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 their kids than they have or had for themselves. Yeah.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:38 All right. Since you mentioned Larry King, who has had more of an influence in your career in media?
00:14:38 --> 00:14:42 Mr. King, Phil Donahue or Zsa Zsa Gabor?
00:14:43 --> 00:14:48 Oh, my God. Have you done your homework? Oh, my God. Can I answer?
00:14:49 --> 00:14:50 Okay. I already told you, Larry.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:56 Yeah, I was, I think, 12. I was watching TV with my dad, watching Phil Donahue,
00:14:56 --> 00:15:00 and he pulled a white mask off a KKK member.
00:15:00 --> 00:15:02 And like, you know, like, don't be a coward revealed who he was.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:06 And I just was so excited about the justice in it.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:09 And I said to my dad, that's what I want to do for a living,
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 and my dad's gone, and my dad loved me and supported me.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:17 It's not going to sound that way when he said, Leslie, you're a little girl
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 from a Boston suburb in Massachusetts.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:25 Come on, get real. That's never going to happen. I'm not Phil Donahue, but I am on TV.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:33 And Zsa Zsa Gabor was my first time I was on talk radio when a guy named Jerry
00:15:33 --> 00:15:37 got sick, and they said, go do his show. I said, I don't know how.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:39 They said, just talk. I said, about what? They said something.
00:15:39 --> 00:15:44 And People Magazine was on the desk in the studio. And it was when Zsa Zsa Gabor
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 got arrested for assaulting an officer.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:50 And I started talking about it and the phone started ringing and it was like
00:15:50 --> 00:15:52 a drug for me. I got hooked.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:58 And so I guess I can thank or blame Zsa Zsa Gabor for my desire to be in this career.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:05 Yeah. All right. So as we're recording this, it has been one year since Donald
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 Trump has returned to the White House.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:14 Your thoughts? Oh, I'm very frightened as to what the next three years look like.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:19 I mean, numerically, and politics is a numbers game, it's looking very good
00:16:19 --> 00:16:25 for a change of hands of control of least the House, and that somewhat cripples his ability.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:32 I say somewhat because this is a man, this is a president who sadly has a Republican
00:16:32 --> 00:16:36 following who have absolutely no spine. He has,
00:16:37 --> 00:16:41 He doesn't like rules, and they let him not follow the rules.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:45 Look, I have two teenagers, and if my kid comes home past curfew,
00:16:45 --> 00:16:49 and the next night I'm giving them the keys to the car, well, what are they saying?
00:16:49 --> 00:16:52 My mom doesn't care. I can do this repeatedly.
00:16:53 --> 00:16:57 It's conditioning, right? You know, like Pavlovian, right? You ring the bell, you get a treat.
00:16:58 --> 00:17:02 And they're just letting them wreak havoc. I mean, it seems he has no regard
00:17:02 --> 00:17:07 for our equal branches of government.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:11 The Supreme Court doesn't seem to care about the Constitution.
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 Therefore, the president, and they're letting him have so much power.
00:17:14 --> 00:17:16 The Constitution, what is that to him?
00:17:17 --> 00:17:20 Congressional powers, what is that? Not just to him, but to Congress.
00:17:20 --> 00:17:26 So honestly, you know, for people that said, oh, we all have a Trump derangement
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 syndrome, right? You know, TDS.
00:17:29 --> 00:17:35 I read today, I think I reposted, it's far worse than we were predicting.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:41 Nobody thought we'd be shooting people in boats, and do we know if they are,
00:17:41 --> 00:17:46 in fact, drug dealers, you know, violating international law in international
00:17:46 --> 00:17:48 waters off the coast of Venezuela.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 Look, Maduro's a bad guy, but the way this went down, I mean,
00:17:52 --> 00:17:56 going into his home and taking him and his wife, now Americans are not safe
00:17:56 --> 00:18:01 in Venezuela, especially in Caracas, right? You know, the largest populated city in that country.
00:18:02 --> 00:18:08 Are we going to have boots on the ground? He's got it in control. He's governing it.
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 Canada, Mexico, and of course, Greenland.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:17 It's interesting. President of Peace, yet we call it the Department of War.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 President of Peace, yet we're not at peace.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:26 There are literally people posting the GI information line so that military
00:18:26 --> 00:18:31 can know their rights if they decide they don't want to do exactly what Pete
00:18:31 --> 00:18:35 Hegseth is trying to screw Mark Kelly with,
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 Senator Mark Kelly, which is you have a right to...
00:18:38 --> 00:18:42 To disobey an order if it's illegal.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:48 You also can be a conscientious objector, you know, and not be a part of that,
00:18:48 --> 00:18:49 you know, particular conflict.
00:18:49 --> 00:18:53 Somebody else the other day said, and I think it's true, that,
00:18:53 --> 00:18:58 you know, Greenland would become Trump's Vietnam.
00:18:58 --> 00:19:02 I mean, our allies are strictly against this.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:07 And I don't want to be somebody who's stoking the flames, but this could be
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 a World War. I mean, you know, now you've got Iran and you've got Syria.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 And then, of course, you know, somebody who wants to make like a resort out of Gaza.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:20 I mean, I can't. I mean, and then at the same time, you're cutting funding for
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 cancer research, brain cancer research and pediatrics.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 I don't have enough time in this, you know, in our interview,
00:19:27 --> 00:19:30 in this podcast, to list all of the things.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 Honestly, once Democrats take power, and they will in the House,
00:19:34 --> 00:19:38 God willing, in the Senate, and then two years after that, God willing, the White House.
00:19:39 --> 00:19:45 It will literally take, I think, half of a new president's term to fix,
00:19:45 --> 00:19:49 correct, and undo everything that's been done. Think about this, right?
00:19:49 --> 00:19:55 Everything that's been done. Because you just can't let these people walk away
00:19:55 --> 00:20:01 and not be accountable and just end up being talking heads on TV or with podcasts and writing books.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:06 No, these people have to be held accountable. I'm not just talking about ICE
00:20:06 --> 00:20:07 and people who shoot women in the head.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:12 We found out not three, four times, right, or four bullets now, four gunshots.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:17 No, these people have to be held accountable. So Democrats have a big job to
00:20:17 --> 00:20:19 do. And I just want to say that, too.
00:20:20 --> 00:20:23 You know, President Trump says if Democrats get in power, they'll impeach him.
00:20:23 --> 00:20:27 People talk about and they're drafting articles of impeachment are trying to
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30 get the votes to do so against Kristi Noem. Waste of time.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 Waste of time and waste of money. Impeachment is only, in my opinion.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:41 A useful tool if you remove the person from office. That's really what impeachment's
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 supposed to do. Otherwise, it's a slap on the hand.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:49 It's a lot of hours on C-SPAN, and it's a waste of taxpayer time.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:53 And it's really not what, it doesn't bring down the price of groceries either.
00:20:54 --> 00:21:00 So Democrats have to carry through on the promises they're making now once they
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 take power, because they will in the House, like I said, hopefully in the Senate.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:05 And I do believe in the White House.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:08 I mean, we have so many people turning against Trump, the African-American community,
00:21:08 --> 00:21:14 the Latino community, and the youth and independents, and we're only one year in.
00:21:14 --> 00:21:17 So it's chaos.
00:21:18 --> 00:21:25 It's chaos with a capital C underlined in bold print with red exclamation points all around it.
00:21:25 --> 00:21:30 It is just chaos every single way you look, whether it's regarding our health,
00:21:30 --> 00:21:36 whether it is regarding our safety, our education system, our immigration system,
00:21:36 --> 00:21:37 our economic system, I mean,
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 and so much retribution, which is just.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:47 I outside the bounce. One last thing, and I'll shut up on this one.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:51 I have never seen the word retarded used so much, seriously.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 Every single day, somebody calls me that.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 And I posted, I think this morning or yesterday, I can't remember,
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 24-hour periods can go by, right?
00:21:59 --> 00:22:05 I look forward to when this administration is over, maggots go back into their
00:22:05 --> 00:22:07 dark cave, because it will no longer be acceptable.
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 The red hat will be something somebody will be embarrassed to wear,
00:22:10 --> 00:22:14 and that that word is not uttered ever again.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:18 I mean, we need our nation to be decent again.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:25 At least half of it is. Yeah. I think, you know, you said a couple of things.
00:22:25 --> 00:22:31 One, you talked about Trump derange syndrome, and I heard somebody say that
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 is better than Trump Depression Syndrome.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:41 And I agree with that because all that stuff that you just laid out,
00:22:42 --> 00:22:47 the case that you just prosecuted, could get people to a point where they're apathetic.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:51 And they're just like, man, this is just too much.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:54 It's like, either I'm going to leave the country, I'm not going to vote,
00:22:54 --> 00:22:56 I'm just going to block it out.
00:22:56 --> 00:23:00 I'd rather be deranged. I'd rather be angry.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:03 I'd rather be like, I'm crazy. I'm going to do something.
00:23:03 --> 00:23:06 Like I'm going to go vote and I'm going to protest and all this stuff rather
00:23:06 --> 00:23:09 than just be depressed and go into a hole.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:15 And, and I, and, and, and, you know, and it's very easy to fall into that trap.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 So I appreciate, I appreciate that.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:23 Let me, let me try to get, Oh, one other thing I wanted to say about Ms. Marshall.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:30 Oh, please call me Leslie. Leslie. One of the, you know, on December 30th,
00:23:31 --> 00:23:35 2025, Leslie got on Fox and said that Tim Walz was going to resign.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:39 And that kind of caught some people by like, really?
00:23:39 --> 00:23:44 And then a couple of weeks later, he said he wasn't going to run for a third term.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:51 So not only is Leslie plugged in as far as, you know, her opinions and all that,
00:23:51 --> 00:23:56 but she she's a reporter. So she has sources. So she knew something was getting ready to happen.
00:23:57 --> 00:23:59 And honestly, it wasn't source. I'll be honest.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:07 Knowing Tim Walz, he was look and more politicians need to be this way.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:12 There's a point where if you are in the way, you need to get out of the way.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:21 And in this whole issue of fraud in Minnesota was hurting him and it was going
00:24:21 --> 00:24:26 to hurt his chances for reelection. So he stepped aside to get out of the way.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 Joe Biden did the same thing.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:35 Joe might have pulled the trigger a little too late, but he did finally step away on that one.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:41 And that's, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I've been an elected official.
00:24:43 --> 00:24:49 And I think I ran one election too many when I tried to run for re-election for a third term.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:55 I was trying to Get to be the first black to be chair of the transportation
00:24:55 --> 00:25:03 committee in the Mississippi house but My opponent was somebody that I if I created one in the lab,
00:25:03 --> 00:25:07 she would have been it And so instead of instead of,
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 Stepping back, once I saw that she was the one running, I should have just said,
00:25:12 --> 00:25:17 yeah, okay, I'll let you have it because I had my sights set on running for the U.S. Senate anyway.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:24 But, you know, ego got in the way and I got out there and she beat me.
00:25:25 --> 00:25:33 And so I think it does say a lot about Tim Walz and Joe Biden that at a point they made a decision.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:38 Yeah, it's not good for me to put myself out there again. And it's time to,
00:25:38 --> 00:25:40 like you say, step aside and all that.
00:25:40 --> 00:25:43 But it's a tough decision, and I appreciate them for doing it.
00:25:44 --> 00:25:48 All right. In the famous opening scene from the show The Newsroom,
00:25:48 --> 00:25:53 Will McAvoy said the reason why people don't like liberals is because they lose.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:59 While that may have been a popular sentiment in 2012, is that an inaccurate statement now?
00:26:00 --> 00:26:05 See, they don't like liberals because what? They lose. Oh, they lose.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:11 Well, we're not losing now, are we? We flipped 24 seats and looking at North
00:26:11 --> 00:26:13 Carolina, we're going to have like a, you know, what is it?
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 Not a trifecta, a quad fecta there.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:22 No, I don't think liberals lose, but I do feel that we as liberals can take
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 a page out of the Republican playbook.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 When Trump ran, you had the Lindsey Grahams, the Marco Rubios,
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 the Ted Cruz's all talking about how damaging he would be to the party and to this country.
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 And then when he became the nominee, they all fell in line.
00:26:38 --> 00:26:41 We as Democrats don't do that. We need to be united more.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:47 You can have your AOCs and your Bernie Sanders in the same party as your Joe Bidens.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:53 You know, we moderate—I'm more of a moderate Democrat, and the far-left progressive
00:26:53 --> 00:26:56 faction of the party and the people who are Democratic socialists,
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 like Mamdani or Bernie Sanders—.
00:27:00 --> 00:27:03 You know, can coexist. And we have, you know, proven that.
00:27:03 --> 00:27:10 So one, we need to unite, in my opinion, one, two, we need to flip red seats, not blue ones.
00:27:10 --> 00:27:13 It's not like, oh, well, they're liberal, they're not liberal enough.
00:27:13 --> 00:27:18 We really need, in my opinion, to devote time, energy, money,
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 resources into flipping red seats.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 You know, we don't gain anything when we flip a blue seat.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:28 That comes down to, I think, a lot of times ego of that person running,
00:27:28 --> 00:27:32 you know, that, you know, that, you know, young, you know, really,
00:27:32 --> 00:27:36 you know, you know, Bernie Sanders progressive, you know, yeah,
00:27:36 --> 00:27:37 maybe you can flip that seat.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:39 But if you can flip that seat, go and flip a seat, we need flipped.
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 Go and flip a seat that gets us some gain, you know, and adds to our numbers.
00:27:45 --> 00:27:48 And I do think sometimes they lose on messaging.
00:27:48 --> 00:27:54 And we really did that with defund the police. I thought that was a bridge too far.
00:27:54 --> 00:28:00 I did. I didn't think it was a good message. We need to stand up for people
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 that can't stand up for themselves all the time, and the trans community would be one.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:11 But the Republicans sucked us down into a vortex of a rabbit hole, and we willingly went.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:17 And that became the argument over bathrooms, the argument over girls and boys
00:28:17 --> 00:28:22 sports and boys and girls sports, which many Democrats, even prominent Democrats
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 like Gavin Newsom go, you know what? You're right. It's not fair, you know? But,
00:28:26 --> 00:28:30 And we, those are not, we need to get back to the kitchen table issues.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:35 We need to look at when people are, why was everybody talking about Zora and Mamdani?
00:28:35 --> 00:28:39 Because he was doing something incredible. AOC as well.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:43 And something both of them did, regardless of where they stand on the liberal
00:28:43 --> 00:28:47 democratic progressive spectrum, they went door to door.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:51 They, first of all, they worked their butts off, right?
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 Her shoes are in the Smithsonian for having holes in it, right?
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 They went door to door. And what did they say?
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 What do you need? What's your complaint with the city and hers?
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 What's your complaint with this district?
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 They listened to their constituency.
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 And Democrats need to do that.
00:29:08 --> 00:29:11 Andy Beshear is a Democrat in
00:29:11 --> 00:29:15 a deep red state, and he's governor of that state, and he's very popular.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:17 Why? Because he listens to the people.
00:29:18 --> 00:29:22 And, you know, when people talk about, oh, Mamdani is the new face of the Democratic Party, no.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:26 He's the new face of New York City and what they need at this moment in time.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:28 And that's what we need to do.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 We need to listen to what the people need this moment in time.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:32 And that's why Democrats right
00:29:32 --> 00:29:36 now are being successful, because Republicans lost their way on that.
00:29:36 --> 00:29:40 And we've picked up the baton and we're running with it because it does come
00:29:40 --> 00:29:44 down to the economy stupid, like James Carville said back in the early 90s,
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 you know, in 92, when he was running Bill Clinton's campaign and,
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51 you know, Bill Clinton won, you know, easily, not just once but twice.
00:29:51 --> 00:29:58 And he and we need right now, it is the economy stupid. What are the top issues, right?
00:29:58 --> 00:30:02 Money, health care comes under the guise of money. Inflation comes under the
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 guise of money. Housing comes under the guise of money.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 And then you have immigration and you have crime. And crime has consistently
00:30:09 --> 00:30:13 been dropping for the past decade. So both parties can, you know,
00:30:13 --> 00:30:15 take their victory lap on that or credit for that.
00:30:16 --> 00:30:21 And then I also think that Democrats need to show that they can and are willing
00:30:21 --> 00:30:22 to work sometimes with Republicans.
00:30:22 --> 00:30:25 This is not that time, but there have been times.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 Infrastructure would be an example of that.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:34 Yeah, I think we get caught in the rabbit hole thing because we try to be fair.
00:30:34 --> 00:30:41 And like you said, right now, maybe this is not the time for us to be pragmatic or...
00:30:42 --> 00:30:48 Kumbaya-ish, right? Well, like Michelle Obama, when she said,
00:30:48 --> 00:30:51 and I love her, when they go low, we go high. And I was like, yeah.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:56 But that didn't work, sadly, because half of the country got lower.
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 Now, I'm not saying we get down to their level. I don't think that's the way to do it.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:04 I think Gavin Newsom, what he is doing, is the way to do it.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:06 Today in Davos, what is he saying?
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 He said, they're spineless.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:14 You got to look him in the face. you got to stand your ground. You got to grow a spine.
00:31:14 --> 00:31:21 He is not being spineless. And I think that's why we've seen him risen to the top.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:25 That's why you even have some people on the right going, hey,
00:31:25 --> 00:31:26 I like some of what this guy is saying.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:33 And I do think there's a way to do that and still remain higher.
00:31:34 --> 00:31:38 Yeah. And even Michelle is kind of, If you remember that speech she gave at
00:31:38 --> 00:31:43 the convention, she's even said, well, you know, that might have been a little
00:31:43 --> 00:31:46 lofty because she went in pretty hard.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:52 Right. But she into into her credit, she I mean, look, when her husband,
00:31:52 --> 00:31:58 a black man with the name Barack Hussein Obama, got elected, you thought, OK.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:03 You know, our nation's not as racist as we thought.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 Our nation is not as Islamophobic as we thought.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:12 Our nation is not as, you know, a diehard conservative as we thought. Yeah, but they are.
00:32:13 --> 00:32:15 You know, and that's why we can't go as high, sadly.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:21 You've done your best on Fox News to bring civility and balance into the political discussions.
00:32:22 --> 00:32:26 Why do you think the country's civility crisis is deepening?
00:32:27 --> 00:32:30 Oh, wow. There's so much there.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:37 One would be social media because there are so many lies that people believe is truth.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 Leaders lead by example.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:48 And I'm not going to try and sound like puritanical poly here,
00:32:48 --> 00:32:54 but it is really hard for me to get my 18-year-old son not to drop F-bombs when
00:32:54 --> 00:32:59 our president does, our elected officials do, and that's on both sides of the aisle, okay?
00:32:59 --> 00:33:04 I love the mayor of Minneapolis, but you don't need to go there.
00:33:04 --> 00:33:08 You had a member of parliament in Davos say F Trump today.
00:33:09 --> 00:33:10 Let me speak your language, right?
00:33:12 --> 00:33:17 We pause, got to go, got to go back, got to have decorum back,
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 got to have civility back, got to have respect back.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25 And we're getting dragged down, you know, when, you know, we do that.
00:33:25 --> 00:33:31 And what happens is so you start with the insults of elected officials to each
00:33:31 --> 00:33:35 other and then you have insults of the president of the and then it just becomes
00:33:35 --> 00:33:37 like, look at Renee Good.
00:33:37 --> 00:33:41 Good God almighty, I hope they sue every single person who has ever uttered
00:33:41 --> 00:33:43 domestic terrorist, lunatic.
00:33:43 --> 00:33:49 The press secretary of the United States called a mother who was shot four times.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:53 Even if you feel ICE was within their right to shoot her four times,
00:33:54 --> 00:33:57 there is no reason to defame and disparage this woman.
00:33:57 --> 00:34:04 There is no reason to name the school their son goes to and to mock the teachings of that school.
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08 You know, we need a Sodom and Gomorrah moment.
00:34:09 --> 00:34:12 We really do. I don't know what that will be.
00:34:12 --> 00:34:16 You know, I had a professor years ago, my undergrad, I did Northeastern University,
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19 my graduate at Emerson, and I had a professor say in undergrad,
00:34:20 --> 00:34:22 the United States is an empire.
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 All empires fall. The United States will fall.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:32 My prediction is it will be a war. It will be a civil war, and it will be based on race and religion.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34 And I remember thinking, right.
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 Maybe it isn't so wrong. I hope it doesn't happen.
00:34:40 --> 00:34:45 But if we don't have – that's why I say bipartisanship is essential.
00:34:45 --> 00:34:46 It's essential for a working government.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:53 If we don't stop with – we have to find areas where we agree.
00:34:53 --> 00:34:58 We have to find leaders that truly want to unite this country.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:03 You know, Joe Biden said and other Democrats have said, and I'm not just tooting
00:35:03 --> 00:35:06 my party's horn, but, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
00:35:06 --> 00:35:08 blah, even if you didn't vote for me.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:10 You never hear Donald Trump say that.
00:35:11 --> 00:35:13 The people that didn't vote for him, the states that didn't vote for him,
00:35:13 --> 00:35:15 hello, three times Minnesota, look what's happening there.
00:35:16 --> 00:35:21 There's retribution. And then you get those egos and people who are power hungry,
00:35:21 --> 00:35:25 like Stephen Miller and others, who are just terrified.
00:35:27 --> 00:35:31 Like I said, there's just so much there. We need a reset.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:37 And so we need people to be elected that are not afraid.
00:35:37 --> 00:35:42 On the right, there's got to be, There's a John McCain there.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:46 I don't know if he or she hasn't been elected yet. I don't know if he or she
00:35:46 --> 00:35:50 is having conversations in the bedroom with their spouse or significant other
00:35:50 --> 00:35:54 or their partner at night going, I got to say something. I can't vote for this.
00:35:55 --> 00:35:58 Interestingly, who would know that Greenland would be the line in the sand,
00:35:58 --> 00:36:00 not shooting citizens in the face in the head.
00:36:00 --> 00:36:05 But yes, we need, they need to rein him in.
00:36:06 --> 00:36:11 And they haven't done that. And Democrats are going to only be able to do it
00:36:11 --> 00:36:13 so much if they just have power within the house.
00:36:13 --> 00:36:15 And we can't just hold our breath for three more years because,
00:36:15 --> 00:36:19 I mean, there are people who are losing their lives in this chaos.
00:36:21 --> 00:36:26 So, yeah, the way we get it back is we have to lead by example.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:30 And I do think it's happening somewhat on the left.
00:36:30 --> 00:36:34 And you're seeing people say, you know what? I thought liberals were loons,
00:36:34 --> 00:36:36 but I'm talking to them and they're really not.
00:36:37 --> 00:36:42 You know, I mean, I've heard so many people. I used to go when I was a Christian. I'm no longer.
00:36:42 --> 00:36:45 But when I was a Christian back in the day and I lived in Chicago,
00:36:45 --> 00:36:48 I went to Moody Bible Church, huge church in downtown Chicago. Right.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:53 And there was a guest speaker, an African-American pastor from another state,
00:36:53 --> 00:36:56 and he said he was racist against white people.
00:36:57 --> 00:37:00 And that opening line definitely got you to go, oh, okay, I'm listening.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:02 I'm interested in what's the guy I have to say.
00:37:02 --> 00:37:04 And he talked about because he
00:37:04 --> 00:37:08 grew up not knowing or interacting with any white people where he grew up.
00:37:08 --> 00:37:15 And he was working in a factory job and he got hurt and all his black friends kind of like failed.
00:37:15 --> 00:37:19 And this one white guy who used to sit alone in the cafeteria all the time,
00:37:19 --> 00:37:20 this loner came over and helped him.
00:37:20 --> 00:37:24 And then after that, he started sitting with that guy in the cafeteria and that
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26 guy shared his sandwich and all of it.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:29 And then all of a sudden he's like, I don't hate white people anymore because I knew one.
00:37:29 --> 00:37:34 And we see this happens with, you know, you meet a Muslim, you meet a Jew,
00:37:34 --> 00:37:39 you meet a gay person, you meet a person of color, you meet a person who's white, you know.
00:37:40 --> 00:37:44 Or a woman, somebody poor, somebody rich.
00:37:44 --> 00:37:49 We're not all any one thing. We're all individuals and unique.
00:37:49 --> 00:37:57 And we need to see that. We need to get back to that, to be tolerant of differences.
00:37:57 --> 00:37:59 You see the videos online.
00:37:59 --> 00:38:05 You know what kills me too, and people can't see us, but people know you and me, our names.
00:38:05 --> 00:38:08 I'm white. You're not. You're black, right? You're African-American.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10 So, you know what kills me?
00:38:10 --> 00:38:16 When I see an African-American woman telling a Hispanic at, like,
00:38:16 --> 00:38:20 you know, the Five and Dime or whatever, you know, Walmart or whatever,
00:38:20 --> 00:38:23 they're going to call ICE on them. And I'm like, really, girl?
00:38:24 --> 00:38:28 Seriously? You know, do they realize that white people are not going to be the
00:38:28 --> 00:38:30 majority in very few years?
00:38:30 --> 00:38:35 And if all people of color came together, it's like if Jews and Muslims and
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 black and Hispanics and Asians and Southeast Asians all came together,
00:38:39 --> 00:38:43 do you know the power that one group would have? Not just in voting.
00:38:43 --> 00:38:44 Do you know what I'm saying? The power?
00:38:45 --> 00:38:49 That's what kills me. I see minorities. I see an Asian person yelling at a black
00:38:49 --> 00:38:52 person, Hispanic person yelling at an Asian. I'm like, what's going,
00:38:52 --> 00:38:55 and of course, there's plenty of white people doing it, but you know what I'm saying?
00:38:55 --> 00:38:59 I just, I don't, I don't get it. Where's such anger coming from?
00:39:00 --> 00:39:02 It's just, there's so much hate out there.
00:39:02 --> 00:39:05 I get, I don't know about you. I sometimes, I just have to get off.
00:39:05 --> 00:39:08 I can't even look. It gets so depressing. you know yeah well
00:39:08 --> 00:39:11 I I definitely understand that and you know
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 part of the reason why I do what I do is to try
00:39:14 --> 00:39:19 to make sure that that gap is bridged and so i try not to even though i am african-american
00:39:19 --> 00:39:25 i i don't just have african-american guests and and that's the whole theme of
00:39:25 --> 00:39:31 it it's like i want to highlight people who are doing the work and so real quick
00:39:31 --> 00:39:33 because i know we're short on time but.
00:39:34 --> 00:39:37 They need a Fannie Lou Hamer in the Republican Party, not a John McCain,
00:39:38 --> 00:39:43 because if it wasn't Fannie Lou Hamer, black folks wouldn't have switched over
00:39:43 --> 00:39:45 to the Democratic Party, especially in the South.
00:39:45 --> 00:39:50 Right. So that's the kind of shift that needs to happen.
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54 But let me let me give you these last two questions and then I'll let you go.
00:39:54 --> 00:40:01 Sure. Will 2026 be a blue tsunami, a blue wave or rinse and repeat?
00:40:02 --> 00:40:10 Tsunami. Tsunami. I mean, not just the predictors, but everything leading up to it.
00:40:11 --> 00:40:17 You know, Mamdani is a democratic socialist, no apologies for it.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:22 Wants to abolish ICE, is completely, you know, is completely against,
00:40:23 --> 00:40:27 Israel completely calls outright what's happened and happening in Gaza a genocide.
00:40:27 --> 00:40:32 And then you have more moderates, like the new governors of New Jersey and the
00:40:32 --> 00:40:37 first female governor in Virginia, who are, you know, more moderate.
00:40:37 --> 00:40:44 Just the states, you know, the places we're flipping in like deep red Georgia,
00:40:44 --> 00:40:47 you know, when you're looking at state seats, too, you can't ignore those.
00:40:48 --> 00:40:50 Yeah, it's going to be a tsunami. Okay.
00:40:51 --> 00:40:55 Absolutely. Without question. Isn't it cool that a Virginian is now the first
00:40:55 --> 00:40:59 female governor of New Jersey and New Jersey and is the first female governor of Virginia?
00:40:59 --> 00:41:02 I thought that was pretty cool. Yes, yeah.
00:41:03 --> 00:41:10 Yes. And the lieutenant governor, a female person of color and Muslim. Right.
00:41:11 --> 00:41:14 All right. So, oh, by the way, the other thing I wanted to point out,
00:41:14 --> 00:41:16 I grew up in Chicago and I live in Atlanta.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:20 So I can relate to all that stuff, especially the Moody Bible Institute.
00:41:21 --> 00:41:25 Yeah, you know where it is. Takes up two city blocks. Major, major institution.
00:41:26 --> 00:41:29 A lot of people used to play basketball up there for free, but that's another story for another day.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:34 Finish this sentence. I have hope because.
00:41:36 --> 00:41:42 I have hope because of two things. One, politics, like the stock market,
00:41:42 --> 00:41:44 is my Boston accent there.
00:41:44 --> 00:41:47 I'm tripping over my mar instead of market. Yeah.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:52 Just like finances, it's cyclical. It's like a pendulum.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:58 It'll swing back. It'll come around. So the history has proven that.
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 And I'm hopeful for that and look forward to that.
00:42:02 --> 00:42:07 And the second thing is I really do believe that for the most part, people are good.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:13 And I do believe that in the end, good prevails.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:17 Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying all Republicans are even all MAGA or BAT.
00:42:17 --> 00:42:20 I have friends that are Republican. I have friends that are Trump supporters.
00:42:20 --> 00:42:25 They're not wearing red hats and pulling people out of cars and applauding the
00:42:25 --> 00:42:28 killing of a woman by ICE.
00:42:29 --> 00:42:33 Everybody has their reasons for voting the way they vote. But yeah,
00:42:33 --> 00:42:36 I do believe in the good of people.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:42 And I think more and more people are seeing that what's happening in this administration
00:42:42 --> 00:42:48 and what's becoming, sadly, a complete takeover of the Republican Party is not good.
00:42:49 --> 00:42:53 Not good for the country, not good for them and their families.
00:42:53 --> 00:42:58 And when it affects you, right, how many people do we see that voted for Trump
00:42:58 --> 00:43:02 and they say, wait a minute, there are people that voted for Trump and their
00:43:02 --> 00:43:03 spouses are being deported, right?
00:43:04 --> 00:43:08 You know, because people did believe the worst of the worst.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:10 And Democrats want the worst to the worst God.
00:43:11 --> 00:43:14 I want, you know, I want pedophiles. Hello, Epstein files. I want pedophiles
00:43:14 --> 00:43:20 and rapists and murderers and violent criminals outside of our country. Absolutely.
00:43:20 --> 00:43:24 But we see with our own eyes what is and is not happening.
00:43:24 --> 00:43:29 Yeah. So, Leslie, how can people get in touch with you? How can people follow you?
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33 Just go ahead and lay that out for the folks.
00:43:33 --> 00:43:38 I don't even know. No, I mean, I think because my producer sets it all up.
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41 I sound like, you know, my kids would say, mom, you're such a boomer.
00:43:42 --> 00:43:45 They'll be like, don't ask my mother about technology. She, you know, can't handle it.
00:43:45 --> 00:43:49 On Twitter, I think I'm at Leslie Marshall. I'm on Facebook.
00:43:49 --> 00:43:53 I think on Instagram at Leslie Marshall Talker. I'm bad. I really need to like
00:43:53 --> 00:43:54 get with it with Instagram.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:58 You know, on Twitter, X now, right? On X at Leslie Marshall.
00:43:59 --> 00:44:04 On Instagram at Leslie Marshall Talker. I think at Leslie Marshall on Facebook. I'm LinkedIn. in.
00:44:04 --> 00:44:09 My website's really more like about my radio show. And then watching me on Fox,
00:44:09 --> 00:44:12 and I do post on social media when I'm going to be on, you know,
00:44:12 --> 00:44:15 depending on how much time I have, who I'm going to be on with,
00:44:15 --> 00:44:18 what we're going to be talking about, that kind of thing. Yeah.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:23 Well, Leslie Marshall, I greatly appreciate the opportunity to talk with you.
00:44:23 --> 00:44:26 Thank you for coming on the podcast. I know you've got to go,
00:44:26 --> 00:44:30 but just the time I've been able to share with you, I greatly appreciate it.
00:44:30 --> 00:44:35 And the rule is, now that you've been on the show, you have an open invitation to come back.
00:44:35 --> 00:44:38 So you don't even have to wait for me to call you. If you say,
00:44:38 --> 00:44:41 Eric, I need to talk about something, you can just come right back on.
00:44:41 --> 00:44:46 I would love to come back on, especially because I lived four years of my life
00:44:46 --> 00:44:50 in Chicago, and I consider it one of my homes, even though I didn't grow up
00:44:50 --> 00:44:52 there. I absolutely love it. I love the people.
00:44:53 --> 00:44:56 I can't stand what a bad rap that city gaps. It's a wonderful city.
00:44:57 --> 00:44:59 It's a wonderful city with wonderful people.
00:45:00 --> 00:45:02 You know, I'm a white girl who's walked on the South Side and lived to tell about it.
00:45:02 --> 00:45:05 So, I mean, I don't understand, you know, I mean, people literally think,
00:45:06 --> 00:45:09 well, you know, my sister-in-law, when she came to L.A., all she had seen about L.A.
00:45:09 --> 00:45:13 Was bad boys, bad boys, what you're going to do, right?
00:45:13 --> 00:45:19 Sorry, bad singing. But she literally thought we'd be like driving through bullets
00:45:19 --> 00:45:20 to go to the supermarket.
00:45:20 --> 00:45:23 I mean, come on, you know, people think that about the South Side, you know?
00:45:23 --> 00:45:27 Yeah, there can be. There are some bad blocks, you know, there's bad blocks in every city.
00:45:27 --> 00:45:30 But yeah, I'd love to come on. I didn't know you were from Chicago.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:34 I know you're in Hotlanta, but I really appreciate it. And I appreciate what
00:45:34 --> 00:45:36 you do too, Eric. Thank you. Thank you.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:39 All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
00:45:58 --> 00:46:04 All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Charlie Wells.
00:46:04 --> 00:46:09 Charlie Wells is an award-winning reporter at Bloomberg News who has covered
00:46:09 --> 00:46:11 finance, tech, real estate, and culture.
00:46:11 --> 00:46:17 Before Bloomberg, he spent five years at The Wall Street Journal and then four at The Economist.
00:46:17 --> 00:46:21 He is a regular contributor to Bloomberg Television, radio, and podcast,
00:46:22 --> 00:46:25 and has moderated major conference panels and appeared on the BBC,
00:46:26 --> 00:46:32 Al Jazeera, Fox Business, and other major national and local U.S.
00:46:32 --> 00:46:33 New networks.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:38 His first book, What Happened to Millennials in Defense of a Generation,
00:46:38 --> 00:46:40 was published by Abrams Press.
00:46:41 --> 00:46:44 And we're going to be talking about that book in the interview.
00:46:44 --> 00:46:48 So ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
00:46:48 --> 00:46:51 guest on this podcast, Charlie Wells.
00:47:03 --> 00:47:06 All right. Charlie Wells, how are you doing, sir? Good. How are you?
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09 I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine.
00:47:09 --> 00:47:13 Glad that you could be on. It's really an honor to have you on.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:17 I always get a little nervous when real journalists come on because,
00:47:17 --> 00:47:18 you know, it's like, you know.
00:47:19 --> 00:47:21 What does that even mean? What does real journalists even mean?
00:47:21 --> 00:47:24 I mean, you know, people don't really know how to ask questions and do stuff.
00:47:24 --> 00:47:29 And, you know, in this book that you wrote, you know, you did a lot of interviews
00:47:29 --> 00:47:34 and that. So I just, you know, I get a little nervous, but we'll,
00:47:34 --> 00:47:36 I'll, I'll, thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:38 I'm happy to be here. I'll fight through it.
00:47:38 --> 00:47:44 All right. So I normally start the interviews off with a couple of icebreakers.
00:47:45 --> 00:47:49 So the first icebreaker is a quote. Yeah.
00:47:50 --> 00:47:55 And the quote is, you think you know, but you have no idea. What does that quote mean to you?
00:47:56 --> 00:48:00 This is really good. And you clearly have done your research,
00:48:00 --> 00:48:04 which I am very honored by. This is a quote in my book.
00:48:04 --> 00:48:09 And it is a reference to an MTV show that I think most millennials will remember,
00:48:09 --> 00:48:11 maybe people from other generations as well.
00:48:12 --> 00:48:17 It was called MTV Diary. And it was basically, it seems light and it seems fluffy,
00:48:17 --> 00:48:18 but I think there's a lot of depth to it.
00:48:18 --> 00:48:21 And that's kind of what I tried to do in this book. This is a great question, by the way.
00:48:22 --> 00:48:25 It followed celebrities around. And there was this tagline where they basically
00:48:25 --> 00:48:27 said, you think you know, but you have no idea.
00:48:28 --> 00:48:32 And that has always stuck with me. And I wrote a book about millennials.
00:48:33 --> 00:48:36 I wanted to kind of counter some narratives about them, some stereotypes,
00:48:37 --> 00:48:39 and kind of tell their history.
00:48:39 --> 00:48:44 I'm a millennial, so our history kind of through the lives of five people who lived through it.
00:48:44 --> 00:48:47 And I think, you know, whenever we're talking about a group of people,
00:48:47 --> 00:48:51 whether it's a generation, whether it's whatever grouping we're talking about,
00:48:52 --> 00:48:55 people always think they know something, but actually the people who lived through
00:48:55 --> 00:48:57 it might have a totally different story.
00:48:57 --> 00:49:02 So that's kind of what I wanted to do here. And so that show is a throwback.
00:49:02 --> 00:49:04 I think the idea is current.
00:49:05 --> 00:49:09 And I think it gets at this truth that, you know, you can really find out about
00:49:09 --> 00:49:12 what someone's life was like if you ask them their story. Okay.
00:49:13 --> 00:49:18 All right. So your next icebreaker is called 20 Questions.
00:49:19 --> 00:49:24 So I need you to, I need you to give me a number between one and 20, 13.
00:49:25 --> 00:49:31 All right. Do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?
00:49:31 --> 00:49:38 This is tricky. I do. I believe that that is the goal of a lot of news organizations.
00:49:38 --> 00:49:44 I think whether people get there or not is another matter, but I think it's
00:49:44 --> 00:49:48 important to try, right? It's really important to try to get to the truth.
00:49:49 --> 00:49:52 We're in a time where that is you know up what
00:49:52 --> 00:49:55 is the truth is up for debate we're in
00:49:55 --> 00:49:58 a time where ai makes it easier than ever for things
00:49:58 --> 00:50:00 to look real but that aren't and i
00:50:00 --> 00:50:04 think at times like this it's really important to talk to humans right
00:50:04 --> 00:50:08 we're literally talking about ai it's really important to talk to humans in
00:50:08 --> 00:50:13 reporting in life and that's something that i tried to do with this book as
00:50:13 --> 00:50:17 well right i wrote about five different people who live in very different parts
00:50:17 --> 00:50:22 of the country and think different than I do. I think maybe think different than each other.
00:50:22 --> 00:50:28 But what was so cool about it was talking to people about their stories.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:30 And I think you can get to a truth when you do that.
00:50:31 --> 00:50:36 Yeah. So the name of the book is called What Happened to Millennials in Defense
00:50:36 --> 00:50:40 of Our Generation, if I remember that correctly. You did.
00:50:40 --> 00:50:44 So what is a millennial and where do they fit in with other generations?
00:50:45 --> 00:50:47 That is a good question. You're asking a lot of good question.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:50 So we're kind of getting me into the heart of the matter.
00:50:51 --> 00:50:54 So millennials are America's largest living generation. There are 72 million
00:50:54 --> 00:50:58 of us. We were born. It's a little fuzzy and it's.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:03 But we were born in the early 80s and into the mid-90s. So people who are kind
00:51:03 --> 00:51:06 of in their early 30s now to their mid-40s.
00:51:07 --> 00:51:08 So that span of about 15 years.
00:51:09 --> 00:51:13 And we're a unique group of people. I'm a millennial. I was born kind of smack
00:51:13 --> 00:51:16 dab in the middle of this kind of peak millennial era in the late 80s.
00:51:17 --> 00:51:22 And millennials really are kind of people who remember life sort of just before
00:51:22 --> 00:51:25 the internet took over everything, right?
00:51:25 --> 00:51:29 There's a lot of like remembering kind of before and after, I think in any generation.
00:51:29 --> 00:51:33 But in this generation in particular, it's that internet introduction and kind
00:51:33 --> 00:51:35 of late 90s that really is kind of a turning point.
00:51:36 --> 00:51:39 9-11 was a really big turning point for a lot of millennials.
00:51:39 --> 00:51:41 We were kind of coming of age growing up.
00:51:41 --> 00:51:46 We remember kind of childhood before and then childhood after the Iraq war,
00:51:46 --> 00:51:47 huge one, and then the recession.
00:51:48 --> 00:51:51 So these are some of the kind of markers that kind of differentiate us as far
00:51:51 --> 00:51:56 as like when we were going through certain points in life and when these big things happened.
00:51:56 --> 00:52:00 Yeah. So most of my classmates, either high school or college,
00:52:01 --> 00:52:02 are millennial parents.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:06 I wait a little later, so I'm a Gen Z parent.
00:52:07 --> 00:52:16 So, you know, I, I, I know it was a lot of y'all born a lot of,
00:52:16 --> 00:52:17 there are millions. Yeah.
00:52:18 --> 00:52:22 What was your purpose or motivation for writing this book?
00:52:23 --> 00:52:28 Yeah, well, I am a reporter. I write about personal finance.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:32 So how people are spending their money, saving their money, investing their money.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:35 And I've been doing that for a long time. I've been doing it for about 14 years.
00:52:36 --> 00:52:38 And when I first started I was like the
00:52:38 --> 00:52:41 kid in the newsroom right and what the
00:52:41 --> 00:52:44 older people in the newsroom said was like hey kid you know
00:52:44 --> 00:52:47 write about what these crazy kids entering the workforce are
00:52:47 --> 00:52:50 doing let's do what they're they're all on you know uber and
00:52:50 --> 00:52:53 they're all on airbnb now they don't want to own homes they don't want to they're
00:52:53 --> 00:52:56 getting married really late all this stuff and so I wrote a lot about these
00:52:56 --> 00:53:01 trends a lot about kind of what my generation was doing and one of the things
00:53:01 --> 00:53:03 that I have noticed over the past few years and what kind of motivated this
00:53:03 --> 00:53:10 book was the stories that people were telling about this generation were maybe not accurate anymore,
00:53:10 --> 00:53:14 that maybe we were growing up, that maybe we were hitting some of these milestones
00:53:14 --> 00:53:20 that I think other generations thought we didn't want, or that the economy or
00:53:20 --> 00:53:24 parts of society were kind of maybe preventing or delaying from happening.
00:53:24 --> 00:53:28 And so I saw those come through, and I thought that was really cool, right?
00:53:28 --> 00:53:31 I was kind of picking up on it in my reporting, and I really wanted to write
00:53:31 --> 00:53:36 about it and kind of talk about some of these transitions some of these milestones
00:53:36 --> 00:53:40 at this generation that came through a difficult period in American history
00:53:40 --> 00:53:44 and American politics kind of grew up in a in a really big moment of change
00:53:44 --> 00:53:47 what it was like to kind of reach some of these milestones finally.
00:53:48 --> 00:53:53 You. How many millennials did you interview for the book? I think you have said
00:53:53 --> 00:53:55 five, so I think you've already answered that question.
00:53:56 --> 00:54:01 And is there one millennial you interviewed for your book whose story stayed
00:54:01 --> 00:54:02 with you more than the other?
00:54:03 --> 00:54:06 Yeah, well, so over the course of my career, I've interviewed hundreds of millennials.
00:54:07 --> 00:54:09 That's kind of what I do every day.
00:54:10 --> 00:54:14 I picked five because I wanted to kind of really go deep.
00:54:14 --> 00:54:17 And I think with this book, I'm a reporter, I talk to people,
00:54:18 --> 00:54:22 you know, I'll call strangers, right? I love talking to strangers.
00:54:22 --> 00:54:24 I think that's one of the best parts of my job. And you must know this,
00:54:24 --> 00:54:27 like we're strangers, very quickly getting to know each other.
00:54:27 --> 00:54:30 But it's fun, right? Like you get on the phone, it's like, whoa, who is that? Like, what?
00:54:31 --> 00:54:34 And then you have to really quickly build a rapport, really quickly establish
00:54:34 --> 00:54:38 something. And then it's done, right? You hang up the phone, you go, you move on.
00:54:38 --> 00:54:41 And so with this project, I really thought, all right, what
00:54:41 --> 00:54:44 if I picked just a couple people and talked
00:54:44 --> 00:54:47 to them on the phone in a really kind of like
00:54:47 --> 00:54:50 old-fashioned way for like hours and
00:54:50 --> 00:54:53 hours and hours and hours over the course of years and so I did that and it
00:54:53 --> 00:54:58 was a really interesting time because we were kind of coming out of the pandemic
00:54:58 --> 00:55:01 I think people were really self-reflective they were looking back they had had
00:55:01 --> 00:55:06 a lot of time alone I sometimes wonder like if I were doing this book again
00:55:06 --> 00:55:08 would it have turned like if I started now,
00:55:08 --> 00:55:12 I think it would be very different because I think people are busy again. People are.
00:55:14 --> 00:55:18 I wanted to talk to people whose lives had kind of intersected some of the big
00:55:18 --> 00:55:21 moments in American life over the past 25 years.
00:55:21 --> 00:55:26 Because the oldest millennial started turning 18 in 1999.
00:55:26 --> 00:55:29 Kind of depends on how you measure it, but like roughly like turn of a new millennium, right?
00:55:30 --> 00:55:33 And so I wanted to talk to people who over the course of those 25 years have
00:55:33 --> 00:55:37 kind of touched in some way some kind of intersection in American life, right?
00:55:38 --> 00:55:41 I think one person who, you know, I don't have favorites.
00:55:42 --> 00:55:44 I love all these five people. They're so fascinating. I got to,
00:55:45 --> 00:55:47 it was such an honor to get to know them and talk to them.
00:55:47 --> 00:55:51 But, you know, one of the people who really her life just intersected this kind
00:55:51 --> 00:55:56 of before after that I was talking about is a woman named Olivia and her dad died in 9-11.
00:55:57 --> 00:56:02 And so that shaped her the rest of her life, right? And it continues to.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:06 And so a lot of the things we talked about, and which was, you know,
00:56:06 --> 00:56:10 something that I think not a lot of Americans get to do, and this is why it
00:56:10 --> 00:56:15 was such an honor, is like talking about how you move on from a tragedy like that, right?
00:56:15 --> 00:56:19 Like, because I think a lot of us, like we read the news and we hear like horrible
00:56:19 --> 00:56:24 thing happened, like, you know, war, terrorist attack, people lose their homes
00:56:24 --> 00:56:27 in a flood, opioid addictions, et cetera.
00:56:27 --> 00:56:30 But then we don't think about like well what does that do when
00:56:30 --> 00:56:33 the news cameras go off right what happens when like national attention
00:56:33 --> 00:56:36 turns away from that and so it was
00:56:36 --> 00:56:39 such an honor to explore how you build a life after
00:56:39 --> 00:56:42 a tragedy like that but there are other people in
00:56:42 --> 00:56:45 the book who maybe they didn't intersect with such big moments
00:56:45 --> 00:56:48 but they intersected with trends in
00:56:48 --> 00:56:51 American society right so one of the people that I spent a
00:56:51 --> 00:56:54 lot of time talking to his name is Justin and he is a
00:56:54 --> 00:56:56 stay-at-home dad right so he his wife works in
00:56:56 --> 00:56:59 finance they live in charlotte and he takes care
00:56:59 --> 00:57:02 of the kids and he used to be a martial arts instructor like
00:57:02 --> 00:57:05 you know his day job was literally beating the crap out
00:57:05 --> 00:57:10 of people and then he kind of pivots into being a stay-at-home dad and like
00:57:10 --> 00:57:14 that transition was difficult too but it's real for a lot of people so yeah
00:57:14 --> 00:57:19 five people really opened up I think it was a unique moment in American life
00:57:19 --> 00:57:24 and it was really cool to talk to these people who live totally different lives, right?
00:57:24 --> 00:57:28 I think you must get that on your podcast, right? Where you get to talk to people
00:57:28 --> 00:57:33 with different lives, different perspectives, but yeah, but no favorites. Well, I understand.
00:57:34 --> 00:57:39 But if I had betting odds, Olivia was, I think, my second choice.
00:57:40 --> 00:57:43 I think Miju was going to be the one I thought you were going to say.
00:57:43 --> 00:57:50 But I'm not saying the name right. But at least Olivia was in my top two. So that's good.
00:57:52 --> 00:57:56 You could like any. They're all. Yeah, they're incredible stories.
00:57:57 --> 00:58:03 Based on analysis by the Tuff University Tisch College in the 2024 presidential
00:58:03 --> 00:58:08 elections, millennials overall supported Kamala Harris with 50% of the vote,
00:58:08 --> 00:58:12 but two-thirds of white millennials without a college degree, like Justin,
00:58:13 --> 00:58:15 supported Donald Trump. Why do you think that is?
00:58:16 --> 00:58:21 I mean, big picture, I think millennials remember a more optimistic time, right?
00:58:21 --> 00:58:25 I think literally there was a candidate who became president and served for
00:58:25 --> 00:58:29 two terms whose campaign slogan was hope and change.
00:58:29 --> 00:58:32 And he was targeting a certain set of young voter.
00:58:33 --> 00:58:36 And those young people are now in their 30s and 40s.
00:58:36 --> 00:58:43 So I think like big picture, millennials really remember a more optimistic time, different time.
00:58:43 --> 00:58:49 And they don't think we have to stay stuck in the kind of negativity that we see everywhere.
00:58:49 --> 00:58:54 I think on the racial differences that we see, I think it's interesting,
00:58:54 --> 00:58:57 right? Because, you know, Justin and I talked and like, he's a Democrat.
00:58:57 --> 00:59:01 And so there are people who might fit certain demographics, you know,
00:59:01 --> 00:59:04 stories that we think we know about people, but we have no idea.
00:59:04 --> 00:59:08 I think if we, you know, if we want to dig into some of these issues and some
00:59:08 --> 00:59:12 of these reasons why, you know, big picture groups like, you know,
00:59:12 --> 00:59:15 white men who do not have college degrees voted for Trump.
00:59:15 --> 00:59:21 I think that there's resentment issues. I think there are employment issues
00:59:21 --> 00:59:23 that have affected disproportionately this group.
00:59:24 --> 00:59:30 I think they see people like me, college educated guys who, you know,
00:59:30 --> 00:59:34 have jobs and it feels really unfair.
00:59:34 --> 00:59:38 And I think dealing with unemployment, I've been unemployed before, it's horrible.
00:59:38 --> 00:59:44 And you just feel like the system is stacked against you. And I think that that could be a feeling.
00:59:45 --> 00:59:48 There's also the issue of racism, which is real in the United States,
00:59:49 --> 00:59:52 and that we clearly saw in the 2024 election.
00:59:53 --> 00:59:59 And so I think it's a host of factors. But I think the important thing is talking to each other.
00:59:59 --> 01:00:01 And I think that's something that I really tried to do in this book,
01:00:02 --> 01:00:03 which is like, look, we can be totally different.
01:00:03 --> 01:00:07 But if we talk to each other, instead of going on social media,
01:00:08 --> 01:00:12 staying in these echo chambers, getting reinforced fake news about what we think
01:00:12 --> 01:00:16 other Americans are, that's not good. It's also not fun, right?
01:00:17 --> 01:00:23 It's really not fun to kind of not be challenged or to kind of think what you always thought.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:27 And I think that something with these people, with the reporting of this project,
01:00:27 --> 01:00:30 sorry, at least somebody knows, with the reporting of this project,
01:00:30 --> 01:00:34 something that really helped was talking about the past, like talking about nostalgia.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:38 Throughout this book, I think one of the things I tried to do to connect with
01:00:38 --> 01:00:43 people was talk about their first cell phone or the computer at their parents'
01:00:43 --> 01:00:45 house or something like that.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:49 And I think that this was an important learning I had from this book,
01:00:49 --> 01:00:54 which was that objects make people start talking about their stories.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:58 And like, at least now, most objects are not partisan.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:03 I think we're in a time when they can be, even, you know, genes can become a partisan issue.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:08 But if you get people thinking about another era, it reminds them of a time
01:01:08 --> 01:01:10 when we were not so divided.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:13 And that was a great joy of this project. So.
01:01:14 --> 01:01:20 You know, I kind of think, you know, Justin being a California guy probably
01:01:20 --> 01:01:22 shaped his politics a little different than,
01:01:22 --> 01:01:28 say, if we had put Justin in Aaron's story and his father getting laid off at
01:01:28 --> 01:01:30 the steel mill and all that stuff,
01:01:30 --> 01:01:34 Justin might have been one of those two-thirds that supported Trump.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:41 But the dynamics are incredible as far as just how people shape their lives and stuff.
01:01:41 --> 01:01:44 So I appreciate that answer. Since you brought up nostalgia,
01:01:44 --> 01:01:47 do you think millennials are the most nostalgic generation?
01:01:48 --> 01:01:52 You know, we get accused of that. And we got accused of that a lot kind of when,
01:01:53 --> 01:01:55 I mean, look, I'm a nostalgic person. I love history.
01:01:55 --> 01:01:57 I literally wrote a book about the past 25 years of history.
01:01:58 --> 01:02:02 So, like, maybe I'm like exhibit A of like millennials are too nostalgic.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:08 But one of the ideas that I explore in this book is nostalgia kind of hits at
01:02:08 --> 01:02:10 people at certain moments in life.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:14 And researchers are turning more attention to it. They're trying to look at,
01:02:14 --> 01:02:16 you know, some of the benefits of nostalgia.
01:02:16 --> 01:02:20 I think in the past, people thought if you were too nostalgic,
01:02:20 --> 01:02:25 you had kind of like, you know, a really negative outlook on life.
01:02:25 --> 01:02:26 But actually, nostalgia can be motivating.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:29 There's a study that shows it
01:02:29 --> 01:02:33 can literally make you feel warmer to think about, you know, the heyday.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:37 And I really like that. But it hits at these transitions, I think,
01:02:37 --> 01:02:40 when people are starting to reflect on life or starting to like maybe they're
01:02:40 --> 01:02:41 entering the workforce.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:45 And this is where like millennials really kind of entered the American consciousness
01:02:45 --> 01:02:47 of, you know, who are these people?
01:02:47 --> 01:02:50 Like, what are they doing? And, you know, we were kind of navigating that kind
01:02:50 --> 01:02:51 of post-recession life.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:55 Like the economy was really not in a good place. It was really hard to get a
01:02:55 --> 01:02:58 job. If you finally got one, it was terrible. You felt like you could lose it in a heartbeat.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:01 It's that idea of precarity, right, which we still feel today.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:06 But I think a lot of millennials kind of got nostalgic in that early point in
01:03:06 --> 01:03:07 the workforce, maybe what, a decade ago?
01:03:08 --> 01:03:11 And then you pair that with social media, which was allowing us to kind of share
01:03:11 --> 01:03:16 this stuff. It was allowing us to kind of be observed more than a lot of other
01:03:16 --> 01:03:19 generations who maybe went through that same period of nostalgia.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:22 You know, baby boomers, Gen Xers, when they got into the workforce,
01:03:22 --> 01:03:27 but they were just not observed as much. And then I think the other thing with this book is...
01:03:29 --> 01:03:32 A lot of millennials are getting to a turning point in their own life right
01:03:32 --> 01:03:35 now, which is we're approaching midlife, we're approaching our 40s.
01:03:35 --> 01:03:37 A lot of us are parents now.
01:03:37 --> 01:03:40 Some of our children have driver's licenses, which is crazy.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:44 So I think there's like a reflection now on like, what was it like when I was a kid?
01:03:44 --> 01:03:47 But I don't think millennials are the most nostalgic generation.
01:03:48 --> 01:03:49 I think everyone goes through this.
01:03:49 --> 01:03:54 It's just technology changes things. The way people see us changes things.
01:03:54 --> 01:03:57 And I think that's another big, big takeaway I wanted people to have from this book, which is,
01:03:58 --> 01:04:02 you know, we can have these narratives about generations, but actually,
01:04:02 --> 01:04:07 you know, when you're born matters a lot, but so does, you know,
01:04:07 --> 01:04:12 the history that everyone's going through in the world at a certain point.
01:04:12 --> 01:04:15 And then also just like the stage of life you're at that can kind of determine
01:04:15 --> 01:04:16 who you are and what you're like.
01:04:17 --> 01:04:21 Yeah. Now, this was a long question, so I'm going to try to shorten it,
01:04:21 --> 01:04:27 but it was based off It's based off a article that came out in March of last
01:04:27 --> 01:04:30 year called Millennials Broke the Political Binary.
01:04:30 --> 01:04:36 And it's stating that independent voters have been the largest voting bloc since
01:04:36 --> 01:04:39 2012 and the influence continues to grow.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:48 And they tie in millennials as being part of the reason why that independent bloc has grown so.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:53 And you mentioned some of the reasons when you talk about Uber for transportation,
01:04:53 --> 01:04:57 Instacart for groceries and remote work for careers and stuff.
01:04:58 --> 01:05:00 It says the mindset extends to politics.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:06 Millennials reject straight ticket voting and instead choose policies that align
01:05:06 --> 01:05:08 with their values, regardless of party affiliation.
01:05:09 --> 01:05:13 Do you think that is an accurate assessment of the generation born between the
01:05:13 --> 01:05:15 births of CNN and Foxton?
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 Yeah, Eric, that's another really good question. And I think,
01:05:19 --> 01:05:23 yes, I think that especially, you know, this could be a life stage thing, right?
01:05:23 --> 01:05:28 Where, you know, and I think that's an important lens to view groups of people, right?
01:05:28 --> 01:05:31 We're at a point, millennials are at a point where, you know,
01:05:31 --> 01:05:34 maybe some of that youthful idealism has gone away.
01:05:34 --> 01:05:38 Maybe not in its stead, but in addition to it, wisdom has come too, right?
01:05:39 --> 01:05:43 So maybe you're not viewing everything through one lens of, I'm a Democrat or I'm a Republican.
01:05:43 --> 01:05:46 You're kind of looking at, you know, all your options are
01:05:46 --> 01:05:49 i think there is this view that we heard a
01:05:49 --> 01:05:52 lot when millennials were in their 20s which
01:05:52 --> 01:05:55 was optimization it's kind of a tech
01:05:55 --> 01:05:58 bro word it initially sounded really great i think now we're kind of living
01:05:58 --> 01:06:03 through the like not great parts of quote-unquote optimization but there's a
01:06:03 --> 01:06:07 view that like oh no i can make everything great you know or like oh i can find
01:06:07 --> 01:06:10 the kind of perfect solution to this if i balance that and i can see that like
01:06:10 --> 01:06:12 lens coming into politics right we're Like,
01:06:13 --> 01:06:16 okay, well, I, you know, I'll vote for Kamala Harris on the national level,
01:06:16 --> 01:06:19 but I like a Republican mayor because I want them to focus on like economic
01:06:19 --> 01:06:22 development in like my particular neighborhood or something like that.
01:06:22 --> 01:06:27 Like that feels very millennial. So I think you're right to identify that. Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:27 --> 01:06:30 How do you answer your own question posed in part two of the book,
01:06:31 --> 01:06:36 What Happens to the Nation Now That Our Mass Ceremony of Reading Together Has Ended?
01:06:36 --> 01:06:42 You actually read my book. And that is very, very, I really am very honored
01:06:42 --> 01:06:43 by that. I'm not going to name names.
01:06:43 --> 01:06:46 The people I talk to have not read my book. And so this is very telling.
01:06:47 --> 01:06:51 I hope your listeners know that you author said you actually do your homework.
01:06:52 --> 01:06:57 So thank you. One of the points that we know about countries.
01:06:58 --> 01:07:02 About the establishment of a modern nation state, is that reading brought us together.
01:07:03 --> 01:07:04 Reading is not just, look, I'm
01:07:04 --> 01:07:08 a journalist, I make money by having people read stuff, so check my bias.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:11 But reading is not just what your librarian wanted you to do.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:14 It brings people together to form a country, right? And one of the theories
01:07:14 --> 01:07:20 out there is that when the printing press gave rise to newspapers,
01:07:20 --> 01:07:24 gave rise to books, people could imagine themselves being a part of this big community.
01:07:25 --> 01:07:28 When people read the same things, they can imagine themselves being a part of the same country.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:32 And one of the things that we are seeing, I'm seeing statistic after statistic
01:07:32 --> 01:07:35 about how Americans aren't reading anymore, right?
01:07:36 --> 01:07:40 Or we're not reading the same things. And I think it becomes hard to see yourself
01:07:40 --> 01:07:46 as part of this greater community. So I think my concern is that this atomization
01:07:46 --> 01:07:50 of reading could have really negative consequences.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:54 I think that that's a theory that could go, you know, too far, right?
01:07:54 --> 01:07:59 Is it just reading the same things that keeps the country together? Or is it communities?
01:07:59 --> 01:08:01 Is it church groups?
01:08:01 --> 01:08:04 Is it friend groups? Is it other things?
01:08:05 --> 01:08:09 Based on the reading statistics, I really hope it's other things. Yeah.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:14 And, you know, when when I read that, I was like, you know, that's an interesting
01:08:14 --> 01:08:19 point, because, you know, since I'm older, you know, newspapers played a major,
01:08:19 --> 01:08:21 major part in my life growing up.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:25 And, you know, just the kind of thought process is like, huh,
01:08:26 --> 01:08:32 I guess I guess we were kind of connected on this ideal that.
01:08:32 --> 01:08:37 Yeah, everybody's, I grew up in Chicago, so it's like at least half of the city
01:08:37 --> 01:08:40 is reading the same newspaper I'm reading. You know what I'm saying?
01:08:40 --> 01:08:42 It's really cool. Yeah. It's really cool.
01:08:43 --> 01:08:46 I was an intern at the San Francisco Chronicle back in the day,
01:08:46 --> 01:08:49 and I just remember the feeling of like, you write the story,
01:08:49 --> 01:08:53 you feel like people all across town are going to read it, you go by the newspaper at the corner.
01:08:53 --> 01:08:57 It's just like, and it's a ceremony, right? I think it's important to remember
01:08:57 --> 01:09:01 that it was a daily thing that people did, but it's also the ceremony of like,
01:09:01 --> 01:09:04 oh, wow, I'm reading this. And, you know, as you're saying, people across the
01:09:04 --> 01:09:06 city are reading that, too. Yeah.
01:09:06 --> 01:09:10 So let's say I was running for office again, which is not going to happen.
01:09:10 --> 01:09:13 But let's say I was running for office again. And I said, Charlie,
01:09:13 --> 01:09:17 what issues should I focus on to attract a millennial vote?
01:09:18 --> 01:09:24 Wow. Okay. So I'm not a political consultant, but what I would say,
01:09:24 --> 01:09:26 and you probably don't want to pay for this advice.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:29 So the big thing we're hearing this year, right, is about affordability,
01:09:29 --> 01:09:33 where the question is, you know, how do you get it so people can afford houses?
01:09:33 --> 01:09:37 How do you get it so people can afford their daily necessities?
01:09:37 --> 01:09:39 And I think that's a big driver right now.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:44 But I think something that we see with millennials is that they like authenticity.
01:09:44 --> 01:09:47 They like feeling like they know someone
01:09:47 --> 01:09:50 they like talking to they like viewing people who appear on
01:09:50 --> 01:09:52 podcasts they like they kind of like warts and
01:09:52 --> 01:09:55 all right and i think this ties back to this book project i
01:09:55 --> 01:09:59 worked on where you know i'm a reporter i want
01:09:59 --> 01:10:01 to report the truth i think one of my concerns is that
01:10:01 --> 01:10:05 you know these these five people opened up
01:10:05 --> 01:10:08 about the good things in their life but also the bad things and as
01:10:08 --> 01:10:10 a reporter you're always worried like are they going to
01:10:10 --> 01:10:13 be upset like when the bad stuff's in there
01:10:13 --> 01:10:17 too and like they were fine with it and like i think that's something like millennials
01:10:17 --> 01:10:20 are used to like things not being perfect it's been kind of a struggle it's
01:10:20 --> 01:10:25 been a little bit messy so if i were advising you theoretical hypothetical only
01:10:25 --> 01:10:28 for this podcast candidate would be like just be yourself like people like that
01:10:28 --> 01:10:32 i think this strive for perfection i think can kind of set people off.
01:10:33 --> 01:10:37 And I think if you're thinking about the 2024, right, like Colin Harris,
01:10:37 --> 01:10:39 like she was so polished.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:42 Right. And I think there was this desire from a lot of voters like,
01:10:42 --> 01:10:44 let's just I just want to get to know you.
01:10:44 --> 01:10:48 Like, who are you? Like, talk to me, you know, so that would be that.
01:10:48 --> 01:10:49 I think that would be my point. Millennials like authenticity.
01:10:50 --> 01:10:53 So you're saying she should have dropped the MF bomb in the debate.
01:10:53 --> 01:10:55 Is that what you're saying? Maybe.
01:10:58 --> 01:10:58 Maybe.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:05 Besides politics, how are millennials shaping culture? you
01:11:05 --> 01:11:08 know i think that they are bringing a
01:11:08 --> 01:11:12 sense of i would
01:11:12 --> 01:11:14 say of nostalgia to it i think there are
01:11:14 --> 01:11:19 so many reboots right now i think there are so many the backstreet boys are
01:11:19 --> 01:11:25 back in concert like it's just i think we're at that moment that a lot of other
01:11:25 --> 01:11:29 generations had baby boomers especially like when the it was kind of in like
01:11:29 --> 01:11:32 the late 70s early 80s when like the 50s came back Right.
01:11:32 --> 01:11:37 Like Greece was all the rage because boomers are kind of reflecting on their
01:11:37 --> 01:11:43 own teen years. I think get ready for a lot of late 90s nostalgia.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:45 I, for one, am thrilled about it.
01:11:45 --> 01:11:48 Eric, I don't know about you. You might find that stuff really annoying,
01:11:48 --> 01:11:52 but I'm telling you to brace yourself now because marketers also know this. Right.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:55 So millennials are shaping culture. But also, this is such a big group of people.
01:11:56 --> 01:11:59 These marketers know like, all right, well, they've got disposable income.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:01 They're hitting their peak earning years.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:05 Let's bring back the Backstreet Boys. Backstreet's back again.
01:12:05 --> 01:12:07 That's exactly right. All right.
01:12:08 --> 01:12:11 I'm going to try to get in a couple more questions. Should your book be placed
01:12:11 --> 01:12:14 in a time cap? You know...
01:12:15 --> 01:12:21 Maybe. I think I like it. I hope the aliens who come in 300 years when AI is
01:12:21 --> 01:12:25 running the planet will take a look at it and get some human stories.
01:12:26 --> 01:12:30 It's very much of the moment now, for better or for worse.
01:12:30 --> 01:12:35 It's about the past 25 years. I think something that I didn't want to do was
01:12:35 --> 01:12:40 have a definitive take on every single millennial ever for the rest of time.
01:12:40 --> 01:12:41 And like some critics didn't like that.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:46 And what I would say to those critics is we're a work in progress.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:49 It's OK to take stock right now, reflect on what's happened,
01:12:49 --> 01:12:51 and we will figure out what else is coming.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:56 And I think that we're talking about truth and journalism, truth and reporting. I think that's honest.
01:12:56 --> 01:13:00 All right. So this is a question that I'm asking every guest this year.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:04 Finish this sentence. I have hope because...
01:13:05 --> 01:13:09 I have hope because people like to talk to each other. And I think if you go
01:13:09 --> 01:13:14 to a cafe, if you go to a bar, if you're on a bus, if you are somewhere where
01:13:14 --> 01:13:17 there are groups of people, people start talking.
01:13:17 --> 01:13:19 And I think that's something that's so important.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:25 We can be in our own little bubbles where we drive to the grocery store,
01:13:25 --> 01:13:28 we get our things, we check out without even talking to the attendant because
01:13:28 --> 01:13:32 it's like an automated thing. And then we go back and then work from our computers.
01:13:33 --> 01:13:37 Unplugged from that. You will reap benefits if you have these conversations with people.
01:13:38 --> 01:13:42 If it's political, if it's economic, or if it's just feeling like you're connecting
01:13:42 --> 01:13:46 with another human, I'm telling you, as someone who spent hundreds of hours
01:13:46 --> 01:13:50 doing just that, you'll feel a lot better if you do it, even just a little bit.
01:13:50 --> 01:13:54 So I have hope because people just like to talk to each other.
01:13:54 --> 01:13:57 All right. Well, Charlie Wells, where can people get this book?
01:13:57 --> 01:14:01 What happened to millennials in defense of our generation? And how can people
01:14:01 --> 01:14:05 reach out to you if they want to talk to you about this subject or,
01:14:06 --> 01:14:08 you know, stuff going on in the world of finance?
01:14:09 --> 01:14:11 Yeah. So basically, this is a very millennial answer, but you can just Google
01:14:11 --> 01:14:14 Charlie Wells, what happened to millennials. You can find the book.
01:14:14 --> 01:14:17 It'll pop up. You can find my LinkedIn. I'm on there.
01:14:17 --> 01:14:20 And I'm happy to talk. But Erik, I was really happy to talk to you.
01:14:20 --> 01:14:21 Thank you for having me for such a great conversation.
01:14:21 --> 01:14:25 Well, Charlie, thank you so much for coming on. And I'm honored that you took
01:14:25 --> 01:14:27 the time, and I greatly appreciate it.
01:14:27 --> 01:14:30 Thank you for having me. All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:14:50 --> 01:14:54 And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Dr.
01:14:54 --> 01:14:59 Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo. Dr.
01:14:59 --> 01:15:05 Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo is the founder of the Olu Institute of Learning
01:15:05 --> 01:15:09 Incorporated and is a public lecturer for the Florida Humanities Council.
01:15:09 --> 01:15:16 His work focuses on the African-American experience, particularly in the Southern United States.
01:15:17 --> 01:15:22 Dr. Adejumo holds a PhD in political science from the University of Florida,
01:15:22 --> 01:15:25 specializing in policy and administration.
01:15:26 --> 01:15:31 The Return of Black Nationalism and the Death of White Supremacy is his first
01:15:31 --> 01:15:36 book, and we're going to be going into that book as well as some other topics.
01:15:36 --> 01:15:40 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
01:15:40 --> 01:15:42 guest on this podcast, Dr.
01:15:42 --> 01:15:47 Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo. Music.
01:15:57 --> 01:16:02 All right. Dr. Vincent Edward Oluwole Adejumo.
01:16:03 --> 01:16:05 How did I do? Did I do good? Perfect.
01:16:06 --> 01:16:07 How you doing, sir? You doing all right?
01:16:08 --> 01:16:12 Yeah, I'm doing well. I can't complain. I'm rested up and ready to go.
01:16:13 --> 01:16:18 Well, I don't know where you are, but I'm in Atlanta and it's like,
01:16:18 --> 01:16:22 you know, people are going crazy about this ice storm that's getting ready to come.
01:16:23 --> 01:16:26 I'm from Chicago. So it's just like, it's just winter to me,
01:16:26 --> 01:16:29 but here in the South, they get a little crazy.
01:16:30 --> 01:16:34 Yeah. I'm in, um, I'm in Orlando. So, you know, we, we're not feeling none of
01:16:34 --> 01:16:36 that, but I used to live in, I used to live in Atlanta.
01:16:37 --> 01:16:45 So I, I do know when I was up there in 2009, there was something similar coming through.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:49 And I remember everybody was going crazy over that.
01:16:49 --> 01:16:53 So yeah, they don't like snow down here. They don't like snow.
01:16:54 --> 01:17:00 Right. All right. So I usually start off my interviews with a couple of icebreakers.
01:17:00 --> 01:17:04 So the first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.
01:17:05 --> 01:17:10 The quote is, when I dare to be powerful, to use my strength in the service
01:17:10 --> 01:17:17 of my vision, then it becomes less and less important whether I am afraid. What does it mean?
01:17:18 --> 01:17:23 It means a lot to me because, you know, just even the first couple of words,
01:17:23 --> 01:17:25 when I dare to be powerful,
01:17:25 --> 01:17:33 you know, because we've been taught in society and especially African-Americans
01:17:33 --> 01:17:39 that you dare not to, you know, that that's something that you don't do.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:47 First of all, is even take a dare, you know, that you just go about life on
01:17:47 --> 01:17:51 the, you know, the whole rigmarole of life the same and not take risk.
01:17:52 --> 01:17:55 So when you take risks, that's, that's essentially a dare.
01:17:56 --> 01:18:02 And so taking a risk to do something better than what you were the day before,
01:18:03 --> 01:18:11 to obtain something that you never had, that in itself is a type of power.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:20 And so when you dare to be powerful, that in itself is, that's a power move.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:26 And then people try to prevent you because they see what you're trying to do.
01:18:26 --> 01:18:31 So not only people, but the system when they see that. So, you know,
01:18:32 --> 01:18:34 it just furthers emboldening you.
01:18:34 --> 01:18:40 And so I can relate that in my own life, you know, taking several risks,
01:18:40 --> 01:18:42 some calculated, some not calculated.
01:18:42 --> 01:18:47 But in the end, even with writing this book, it all worked out and coming out
01:18:47 --> 01:18:51 better on the other side of doing it. You know, obviously, when you're in it
01:18:51 --> 01:18:56 and you're going through the process, it's, you know, it's challenging.
01:18:56 --> 01:19:02 But once you make it out on the other side, then it emboldens you and it makes
01:19:02 --> 01:19:03 you better as a as a person.
01:19:04 --> 01:19:09 All right. And so now the next icebreaker is what we call 20 questions.
01:19:09 --> 01:19:13 OK, I need you to give me a number between one and 20.
01:19:14 --> 01:19:17 Let's go, let's go 13. All right.
01:19:18 --> 01:19:23 Do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?
01:19:23 --> 01:19:26 Hmm. A such thing as unbiased news.
01:19:27 --> 01:19:31 I don't think, I don't believe there is a such thing as unbiased news because
01:19:31 --> 01:19:40 news is often, news is created from someone and every, everybody has some type of biases.
01:19:41 --> 01:19:46 Slight or whether it's slight or great. Everyone has some type of bias.
01:19:46 --> 01:19:49 You know, that's just the human mind in the way we view things.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:54 And that's what makes us human. So I don't think there is anything that I don't
01:19:54 --> 01:19:57 I don't believe in unbiased news. Yeah.
01:19:58 --> 01:20:03 All right. So I'm going to pick your brain some more before we get into the
01:20:03 --> 01:20:08 book, The Rise of Black Nationalism, because I think you you're a good person
01:20:08 --> 01:20:09 to ask these kind of questions.
01:20:10 --> 01:20:17 All right. So the first one is in the context of this being the 250th anniversary
01:20:17 --> 01:20:22 of the United States of America, who got to dream out loud and who got written
01:20:22 --> 01:20:24 out once the dream took shape?
01:20:25 --> 01:20:27 Who got to dream out loud?
01:20:29 --> 01:20:36 That's really something. Who got to dream out loud? I believe...
01:20:37 --> 01:20:44 Who got to dream out? I believe Frederick Douglass got to dream out loud,
01:20:45 --> 01:20:51 but I believe Martin Delaney was written out of history, out of the narrative,
01:20:52 --> 01:20:56 out of, you know, even though they both coexisted at the same time,
01:20:56 --> 01:20:59 they were contemporaries to a certain degree.
01:21:00 --> 01:21:02 But, you know, Frederick was
01:21:02 --> 01:21:08 more so kind of work within the system versus Martin Delaney was about,
01:21:08 --> 01:21:16 he was, I would say, the first Black nationalist within the context of modern Black nationalism.
01:21:16 --> 01:21:21 But he's not taught in the history books. Frederick Douglass is taught in the history books.
01:21:22 --> 01:21:33 So with respect to Black people becoming free from chains, Frederick Douglass dreamed that out loud.
01:21:34 --> 01:21:40 And Martin Delaney also dreamed that as well, but he was written out of the
01:21:40 --> 01:21:47 narrative because of the route in which he wanted to go about it,
01:21:47 --> 01:21:51 which was more so a Black nationalist route.
01:21:52 --> 01:21:58 Do you see any correlation in the murders of George Floyd and Renee Good in
01:21:58 --> 01:22:03 Minneapolis and the 1996 murder of TyRon Lewis in St. Petersburg?
01:22:05 --> 01:22:13 Definitely between George Floyd and TyRon Lewis, the circumstances between those
01:22:13 --> 01:22:19 two, there's definitely correlation due to race and gender,
01:22:20 --> 01:22:26 both black males being perceived as threats and had to be stopped in their tracks.
01:22:26 --> 01:22:33 I believe the murder of Renee Goode obviously wasn't racial.
01:22:33 --> 01:22:40 It was terrible, obviously, but I believe it was an overreach in power by the ICE agents.
01:22:41 --> 01:22:45 And I guess you could make some correlation there as far as overreach as far
01:22:45 --> 01:22:51 as the police in George Floyd and Tyrone Lewis. But that's always the case when
01:22:51 --> 01:22:55 it comes to black men and law enforcement.
01:22:55 --> 01:22:59 That's always the case, you know, versus in the Renee Goods situation.
01:23:00 --> 01:23:07 She was in a situation and ICE agents, you know, they were in a situation and
01:23:07 --> 01:23:09 it was just basically a bang, bang type of deal.
01:23:10 --> 01:23:17 And I think those circumstances afterwards, much different, much different,
01:23:17 --> 01:23:21 much different than, than George Floyd and TyRon Lewis.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:26 So, so again, so it's just to circle back to the point, TyRon Lewis and,
01:23:26 --> 01:23:30 and George Floyd, yes, the correlation is perfectly aligned.
01:23:30 --> 01:23:35 Renee Good, it's a little bit more complicated, but all three instances,
01:23:35 --> 01:23:43 overreach of power, but race was the deciding factor, race and gender in the
01:23:43 --> 01:23:47 George Floyd and TyRon Lewis.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:51 How about the community reaction?
01:23:51 --> 01:23:59 Do you feel that it's Is that similar or even with Rene, it's a little different?
01:23:59 --> 01:24:06 I believe Rene's reaction. I mean, obviously, George Floyd was, you know, a global.
01:24:07 --> 01:24:10 I mean, TyRon Lewis was more so local reaction.
01:24:10 --> 01:24:16 I mean, yes, there were riots in the area. And you had the, you know,
01:24:16 --> 01:24:19 the Uhuru movement who mobilized that.
01:24:19 --> 01:24:26 George Floyd, obviously, there was worldwide reaction, global reaction in the immediate aftermath.
01:24:27 --> 01:24:30 And then not only that, there was reaction with respect to policy.
01:24:31 --> 01:24:37 Rather directly or indirectly. I mean, we're talking about to the point of social
01:24:37 --> 01:24:45 conservative commentators, their reaction to George Floyd was to talk about DEI and get rid of DEI.
01:24:45 --> 01:24:51 And then that's when you start seeing all this legislation to remove DEI after the George Floyd.
01:24:51 --> 01:24:55 So you see Trump do what he did. And then Joe Biden came in,
01:24:56 --> 01:25:00 tried to reverse some of Trump's anti-DEI legislation.
01:25:01 --> 01:25:05 Then Trump got back in and reinstated it.
01:25:05 --> 01:25:13 And that's still reverberation from George Floyd, the whole stop the woke campaign
01:25:13 --> 01:25:17 from DeSantis in Florida, where I'm at.
01:25:17 --> 01:25:19 All of that is reaction to George Floyd.
01:25:20 --> 01:25:28 Renee Good, I don't believe the reaction as far as policy-wise Yes.
01:25:29 --> 01:25:36 It's going to be as fervent as the George Floyd.
01:25:36 --> 01:25:39 Because the thing about it is white supremacy, they always have to,
01:25:39 --> 01:25:45 in the system of white supremacy, you're going to have white people themselves
01:25:45 --> 01:25:49 that are going to be sacrificed and for the greater good of the system to continue.
01:25:50 --> 01:25:55 And in this case, Renee Good, obviously white woman at that,
01:25:56 --> 01:26:00 in a greater scheme of things, as far as the reaction, I don't believe there's
01:26:00 --> 01:26:04 going to be policy reaction by government.
01:26:04 --> 01:26:08 In fact, you see the Trump administration actually reinforcing,
01:26:09 --> 01:26:14 you know, putting out directives that ICE agents can go into a house without
01:26:14 --> 01:26:16 a warrant and all these different things.
01:26:16 --> 01:26:21 So, you know, I think that's as far as that is going to go.
01:26:21 --> 01:26:28 Yeah. So. I got you. All right. So what is your definition of black nationalism?
01:26:28 --> 01:26:36 Because in the book you cite several scholars, but what exactly is your definition of it?
01:26:37 --> 01:26:43 My definition of it, first off, is love.
01:26:43 --> 01:26:48 It's Black people loving themselves enough
01:26:48 --> 01:26:59 to come together as a group in identity and identify and be able to create institutions
01:26:59 --> 01:27:05 within their own vicinity and have and basically reclaiming power.
01:27:05 --> 01:27:10 You know, so that's what I believe black nationalism is at its base level.
01:27:10 --> 01:27:12 It's not about hating white people.
01:27:12 --> 01:27:15 It's not about hating white supremacy.
01:27:15 --> 01:27:22 It's about conquering the circumstances in our own vicinity to the point where
01:27:22 --> 01:27:27 we're not reliant on the system and our oppressors.
01:27:27 --> 01:27:35 So that's what black nationalism is to me at its core, at its core base level.
01:27:36 --> 01:27:41 Explain the difference between pan-Africanism and African internationalism.
01:27:42 --> 01:27:44 Because I'm of a certain generation.
01:27:45 --> 01:27:51 And so pan-Africanism was kind of the word that when I was, especially when
01:27:51 --> 01:27:53 I was in college, that was what we were talking about.
01:27:53 --> 01:27:58 But you make a clear distinction. So explain to the listeners what that distinction is.
01:27:59 --> 01:28:07 Right. So Pan-Africanism, obviously, is about black people cooperating worldwide
01:28:07 --> 01:28:13 for the system, right, to to conquer the system of white supremacy.
01:28:13 --> 01:28:21 And so that's very important as far as, you know, relating to certain things,
01:28:21 --> 01:28:26 because you see certain things in the in the social media sphere regarding pan-Africanism.
01:28:27 --> 01:28:30 You know, certain people have this different these things, you know,
01:28:30 --> 01:28:33 especially here in the United States, you know, you see this division.
01:28:34 --> 01:28:39 Between, you know, people turn themselves as FBA versus, you know,
01:28:39 --> 01:28:40 foreign black or whatnot.
01:28:40 --> 01:28:44 And pan-Africanism is, you know, they term it as pan-Africanism,
01:28:44 --> 01:28:47 helping more foreign black people than our own people.
01:28:47 --> 01:28:51 And I don't, I reject that notion of pan-Africanism.
01:28:51 --> 01:28:58 I believe Pan-Africanism is about working in concert,
01:28:58 --> 01:29:04 we as African-Americans, working in concert with Black people worldwide to conquer
01:29:04 --> 01:29:07 our oppression together.
01:29:07 --> 01:29:12 So, for example, you see with Asian immigrants, when they come to this country.
01:29:13 --> 01:29:18 You know, they coordinate back home with with, you know, factories back home
01:29:18 --> 01:29:25 or whatnot, you know, to deliver product here to the United States and sell them at a cost.
01:29:25 --> 01:29:28 You know, you see this in the hair industry.
01:29:28 --> 01:29:34 And so I believe that Pan-Africanism is having that type of cooperation.
01:29:34 --> 01:29:39 Obviously, there's government systems in place to prevent that.
01:29:39 --> 01:29:44 But nevertheless, you know, you do see some Pan-Africanism going on,
01:29:44 --> 01:29:50 like with the Caribbean nations corresponding with African nations.
01:29:50 --> 01:29:59 You saw that with the disaster in Jamaica, how African nations were sending some help to Jamaica.
01:29:59 --> 01:30:05 You saw that with Haiti and what they were going through, although one can also
01:30:05 --> 01:30:08 make an argument that I was directed by colonialism.
01:30:08 --> 01:30:13 But anyway, Pan-Africanism is just Black people worldwide, Black nations worldwide,
01:30:14 --> 01:30:17 working together in concert to defeat the system.
01:30:17 --> 01:30:23 Now, when we talk about African internationalism, I'm going to give you the base definition.
01:30:25 --> 01:30:30 I'm going to give you the base definition, right? So it's more so about,
01:30:31 --> 01:30:34 about, you know, capital,
01:30:34 --> 01:30:39 it's more so an attack on capitalism and that,
01:30:39 --> 01:30:46 and that the best way for is black people to work in concert together more so
01:30:46 --> 01:30:50 from a social standpoint, socialist standpoint,
01:30:51 --> 01:30:59 but, but, but also to, to overcome the, the, the, the, the, the,
01:30:59 --> 01:31:03 the struggle from as a global liberation.
01:31:03 --> 01:31:07 So, and that was more so born from the African people socialist party.
01:31:08 --> 01:31:11 And again, it's more so an attack on capitalism.
01:31:12 --> 01:31:18 And I differ And also to another difference Between the two is that Is that.
01:31:20 --> 01:31:25 African internationalism Is more so focusing on the working class Of black people,
01:31:26 --> 01:31:32 Versus Pan-Africanism is not necessarily just about the working class,
01:31:32 --> 01:31:36 but it's also about everybody working together, you know, African leaders and whatnot.
01:31:37 --> 01:31:43 So that's really the difference is that African internationalism is more so
01:31:43 --> 01:31:51 about the Black grassroots working together in unity and attacking capitalism.
01:31:51 --> 01:31:57 And so I make a big distinct difference in that versus Pan-Africanism is more
01:31:57 --> 01:32:03 so using capitalism, you know, as a tool to overcome our oppression.
01:32:04 --> 01:32:09 So, OK, was January 6th, 2021, the signal of the end of white nationalism?
01:32:11 --> 01:32:17 No, it was a reaction. It was a reaction, but not the end.
01:32:18 --> 01:32:25 Definitely not the end, because in order for there to be an end to that,
01:32:25 --> 01:32:29 you have to have, you have to have, how can I say this?
01:32:29 --> 01:32:36 You have to have a very strong opposition, you know, to the point of organized opposition.
01:32:37 --> 01:32:45 And I don't believe we in this in this point, whether it was January the 6th,
01:32:45 --> 01:32:48 2021, or whether it is now in 2026.
01:32:48 --> 01:32:54 I don't believe there's, I don't believe there's, there's, there's structured
01:32:54 --> 01:32:59 opposition and organization to white supremacy.
01:33:00 --> 01:33:06 You know, we talk about it, but the organization isn't there as a cohesiveness.
01:33:06 --> 01:33:11 And whether it's by black people or other non-black people, in fact,
01:33:11 --> 01:33:16 I believe, I believe, I believe white supremacy is, is, is more strengthened
01:33:16 --> 01:33:19 than ever. I mean, it's not just about Donald Trump.
01:33:19 --> 01:33:22 It's more so about the...
01:33:23 --> 01:33:30 The cult that he's built, you know, not just he, but social conservatives in
01:33:30 --> 01:33:37 general, the code that they stick to, I don't foresee that code, you know, breaking.
01:33:38 --> 01:33:41 And, you know, and obviously you've had different things along the way.
01:33:41 --> 01:33:44 Obviously you had the Charlie Kirk murder and that type of thing.
01:33:44 --> 01:33:47 And some people say, oh, yeah, that's the signal of the downfall.
01:33:47 --> 01:33:50 No, it's actually it's strengthening.
01:33:50 --> 01:33:55 And again, I say that because we, especially as African-Americans,
01:33:55 --> 01:34:03 have not put together strong systems to oppose what's going on.
01:34:03 --> 01:34:07 And if you look at what's going on in different states at different local levels
01:34:07 --> 01:34:09 of government, state governments,
01:34:09 --> 01:34:13 you know, again, referring back to in Florida, the different things that they're
01:34:13 --> 01:34:17 doing as far as the anti-DEI legislation and,
01:34:17 --> 01:34:23 you know, not even just DEI, but just outright getting rid of anything that
01:34:23 --> 01:34:29 is not of European roots.
01:34:29 --> 01:34:33 You know, you know, just those different type of things, again,
01:34:33 --> 01:34:35 is why I believe it's actually strengthening.
01:34:35 --> 01:34:41 And we're just we're not doing the work as far as on the ground level to really
01:34:41 --> 01:34:44 organize and operationalize opposition.
01:34:45 --> 01:34:50 Yeah, because in the book, you know, you kind of, to summarize what you said,
01:34:50 --> 01:34:53 you felt it was more of a flex.
01:34:53 --> 01:34:58 See, I guess maybe I'm too optimistic. I kind of, instead of a flex,
01:34:59 --> 01:35:01 I looked at it as like a reflex, right?
01:35:01 --> 01:35:06 Because when you're about to die, you know, the body still tries to fight that.
01:35:07 --> 01:35:12 You might have a moment where you aspirate, where you're still trying to get air.
01:35:12 --> 01:35:17 You might, you know, your pulse will come back or your limbs might move or whatever
01:35:17 --> 01:35:19 involuntarily, but you're fighting it.
01:35:19 --> 01:35:21 Right. But you're eventually going to die.
01:35:22 --> 01:35:23 Right, right, right, right, right, right, right.
01:35:25 --> 01:35:29 That's where I was kind of looking at it. But but your argument is very strong
01:35:29 --> 01:35:34 because of the fact that even if it is dying, there's nothing really coordinated
01:35:34 --> 01:35:37 to make sure that it's dead.
01:35:38 --> 01:35:42 Right. Right. We're not we're not landing the final blow.
01:35:42 --> 01:35:46 So that's the problem is that, you know, we have these reactions,
01:35:46 --> 01:35:51 we have these tremors, you know, in all types of phases, you know,
01:35:51 --> 01:35:54 whether we're talking about politically, whether we're talking about economically.
01:35:54 --> 01:35:59 You know, you saw with all these tariffs and, you know, and how that how that
01:35:59 --> 01:36:01 with the market messed with the market.
01:36:02 --> 01:36:07 And then what Trump talking about with Greenland and taking over Greenland,
01:36:07 --> 01:36:13 you know, yeah, it's a it's it definitely could be seen as a last gasp for relevance.
01:36:13 --> 01:36:20 But again, he is just I think we're so focused on him and his shenanigans and
01:36:20 --> 01:36:24 not really paying attention to the overall system,
01:36:24 --> 01:36:28 you know, because just as the market was faltering, it recovered, you know.
01:36:28 --> 01:36:38 And again, we as African-Americans are not, do not have a really organized group,
01:36:38 --> 01:36:43 not just group, but just system in place to really land the final blows that's
01:36:43 --> 01:36:50 needed in order to basically kill this system and get some equity,
01:36:50 --> 01:36:56 not some equity, to get equity and what's due to us. So that's what we really need.
01:36:57 --> 01:37:02 Malcolm X said, the reason for this is the only way you can become politically
01:37:02 --> 01:37:07 independent of the white political machine is to have the support of the black masses.
01:37:08 --> 01:37:14 The only way you can get the support of the black masses is to say how they think and how they feel.
01:37:14 --> 01:37:18 And when you begin to speak to the black masses and how they feel and think,
01:37:18 --> 01:37:23 then the whites call you a racist. because you have to talk in the context of
01:37:23 --> 01:37:28 the intense degree of dissatisfaction that exists in the Negro community.
01:37:29 --> 01:37:30 Whites do not want to hear this.
01:37:32 --> 01:37:37 Is that, are we still at that point or do you think there's been some movement in that?
01:37:38 --> 01:37:43 Oh no, we still at that point. You see that with the, how political black political
01:37:43 --> 01:37:48 leaders are picked, you know, the so-called leaders, you know,
01:37:48 --> 01:37:50 you know, we can, you know.
01:37:51 --> 01:37:55 The leadership today, you know, they say certain things, certain crumbs,
01:37:55 --> 01:38:01 you know, but at the end of the day, not really talking about how do we lift
01:38:01 --> 01:38:05 ourselves collectively from the point that we're at now.
01:38:05 --> 01:38:08 So, for example, in talking about education.
01:38:09 --> 01:38:13 In the book, I talk about how we as African-Americans, our children,
01:38:13 --> 01:38:19 have lagged in education and actually in some respects decreased when you talk
01:38:19 --> 01:38:23 about some of the math results and the reading results of eighth graders and
01:38:23 --> 01:38:27 fourth graders from 1992 to 2024.
01:38:27 --> 01:38:33 You don't hear any of our leaders talking about that and the resources that
01:38:33 --> 01:38:37 are needed to really get that moving.
01:38:37 --> 01:38:44 And with AI now, you know, I'm really concerned myself of what's that about.
01:38:44 --> 01:38:51 But getting back to the point, you know, and then talking about the economics,
01:38:51 --> 01:38:56 you know, you look at the black unemployment, you know,
01:38:56 --> 01:39:03 black female unemployment, 7.1% in December, black male unemployment, 7.5% in December.
01:39:03 --> 01:39:07 White female unemployment 3.4%, black male unemployed,
01:39:08 --> 01:39:14 I mean, white female unemployment rate 3.4%, white male unemployment rate 3.6%,
01:39:14 --> 01:39:19 black wealth 352, white wealth 1.5 million.
01:39:19 --> 01:39:23 You don't hear black leaders talking about that because again,
01:39:24 --> 01:39:28 if black leaders, especially elected officials talk about it,
01:39:28 --> 01:39:33 then that's going to really disturb, you know.
01:39:33 --> 01:39:36 Whites because they don't assume that we really care about that stuff,
01:39:36 --> 01:39:41 you know, but obviously we do. And obviously the black masses do.
01:39:41 --> 01:39:46 But as Malcolm X said, when you as a leader, a so-called leader start talking
01:39:46 --> 01:39:51 about this stuff, then you kind of spook them and then they get you out of the paint.
01:39:51 --> 01:39:59 And so then therefore, and Black leaders know this, which is why they don't speak on these things.
01:39:59 --> 01:40:05 So just as Malcolm X said that in the 60s, it still applies in 2026.
01:40:05 --> 01:40:10 Yeah. You know, your book really kind of hit home with me because I was one
01:40:10 --> 01:40:12 of those Black elected officials, right?
01:40:13 --> 01:40:17 And, you know, it was like, I was thinking about it and I said,
01:40:17 --> 01:40:22 I did have a lot of freedom, but I didn't really, I just thought it was just
01:40:22 --> 01:40:26 because, you know, it's me and this is what I believe and all that.
01:40:26 --> 01:40:32 But because the way my district was set up, it was like, you know, it was majority black.
01:40:32 --> 01:40:36 When I first got elected, my district was 85% black and then they redrawed it
01:40:36 --> 01:40:38 and dropped it down to 65. Right.
01:40:39 --> 01:40:43 But but, you know, it still was a majority black district.
01:40:43 --> 01:40:49 Right. And we did that strategically to try to get more Democrats in as opposed
01:40:49 --> 01:40:55 to because when you had it at 85 percent that created these super white districts and in the south,
01:40:55 --> 01:41:00 they because it was Mississippi, you know, they flip Republican. So right.
01:41:01 --> 01:41:05 But, you know, in reading, you know, reading the book, it was just kind of like
01:41:05 --> 01:41:10 an analysis of those of us that were elected in districts, you know,
01:41:10 --> 01:41:14 compared to like, say, Byron Donald's, who's in a district that's majority white.
01:41:15 --> 01:41:19 Right. And he's in there. So his agenda is totally different from mine.
01:41:20 --> 01:41:26 Right. But then it came down to the part about pushing the issue.
01:41:27 --> 01:41:31 And so my thing was I would push the issue. I would introduce like 150 bills
01:41:31 --> 01:41:38 a year and I would push the issue, but I wouldn't get any traction on it, right? Right.
01:41:38 --> 01:41:43 And then if something happened, I could slide that in. Okay, great.
01:41:43 --> 01:41:49 You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, you know, they wanted to change one year.
01:41:49 --> 01:41:53 They wanted to change the rates of how much people had to pay once they got out of jail. Right.
01:41:54 --> 01:41:58 You know, you had to pay a fee, you know, to your probation officer.
01:41:59 --> 01:42:06 So I have been pushing legislation to give people like a two month extension on their first payment.
01:42:07 --> 01:42:10 Right. That bill never got anywhere. So once they brought the bill up to raise
01:42:10 --> 01:42:13 the money, I was able to stick that in as an amendment.
01:42:13 --> 01:42:16 Right right and right and that helps
01:42:16 --> 01:42:19 black people but it's not it's not
01:42:19 --> 01:42:25 systematic changing for black people it's improving black people within the
01:42:25 --> 01:42:30 system right right so that was so when i was reading the book i was like going
01:42:30 --> 01:42:36 I said yep that's kind of like where we are you know and that was the challenge
01:42:36 --> 01:42:38 you know what I'm saying right right right,
01:42:39 --> 01:42:43 And this next question kind of goes along with that. In describing Atlanta,
01:42:44 --> 01:42:49 you said a community where only a rare few black people attain wealth is not black success.
01:42:51 --> 01:42:52 It's not because...
01:42:54 --> 01:42:59 Those few people have been chosen by the system, you know, as a,
01:42:59 --> 01:43:05 as one of those things, it's kind of like a, you know, how we describe how certain
01:43:05 --> 01:43:08 people describe Asians as the model minority, right?
01:43:08 --> 01:43:11 See, they come over here, you can do it. So why can't you do it?
01:43:11 --> 01:43:17 So it's kind of the same thing when you have those few black individuals who
01:43:17 --> 01:43:22 have wealth and whites allow them to have their wealth and that's fine, you know,
01:43:22 --> 01:43:28 but the great majority of the black people in the vicinity, especially in Atlanta,
01:43:29 --> 01:43:32 you know, are poor, you know, are, are in, you know,
01:43:33 --> 01:43:36 and are struggling and struggling to make ends meet.
01:43:36 --> 01:43:41 And so, again, so just because a few celebrities and, you know,
01:43:41 --> 01:43:44 and ballplayers and whatnot have money and they flaunt their money,
01:43:45 --> 01:43:50 you know, a lot of them aren't, you know, they have a lot of money,
01:43:50 --> 01:43:51 but they have a lot of debt, too.
01:43:51 --> 01:43:58 You know, so, so, and so the system designs it to where, you know, they're displayed,
01:43:58 --> 01:44:03 they're displayed, but at the end of the day, you know, overall,
01:44:03 --> 01:44:06 our people are still suffering and it's not success.
01:44:06 --> 01:44:12 Success is measured when all of us collectively have equity in a system to where
01:44:12 --> 01:44:21 we have a legitimate chance, a legitimate shot to to to to defeat our our condition.
01:44:21 --> 01:44:27 And so me saying that in that book, I really, and it's not even just Atlanta,
01:44:27 --> 01:44:32 it's any major city center around the United States, you know,
01:44:33 --> 01:44:36 where, where, you know, people, oh yeah, this black person is rich and that
01:44:36 --> 01:44:42 black person is rich, but the black person down the street can barely afford to get bread.
01:44:42 --> 01:44:46 And so that's one of the things where we as African-Americans,
01:44:46 --> 01:44:48 we've been conditioned over the years.
01:44:49 --> 01:44:52 Know, to just focus on the celebrity, celebrity worship, um,
01:44:52 --> 01:44:56 just focus on the, the, the wealthiest in our community,
01:44:56 --> 01:45:01 but not our own condition for those of us who, who don't have the wealth and
01:45:01 --> 01:45:04 don't have the opportunity to obtain the wealth.
01:45:04 --> 01:45:11 And nevertheless, you know, the system extracts whatever it needs from us in
01:45:11 --> 01:45:14 order to keep going and keeping us oppressed. Yeah.
01:45:15 --> 01:45:22 And you, you know, it's hard for people to put it in context a lot of times, but,
01:45:22 --> 01:45:26 you know, you spelled it out in the book and I've said it on the show is that,
01:45:27 --> 01:45:30 you know, Atlanta has had black leadership since 1974.
01:45:30 --> 01:45:35 For yeah and and Maynard Jackson's main
01:45:35 --> 01:45:38 reason and and he was kind of the blueprint for every
01:45:38 --> 01:45:42 black mayor after him it was like okay he came in and he got black people money
01:45:42 --> 01:45:48 off these government contracts and built his black middle class and upper class
01:45:48 --> 01:45:53 and it's like that's what we need to do right right Michael white did the same
01:45:53 --> 01:45:56 thing in Cleveland it's like that's why all the stadiums,
01:45:57 --> 01:46:01 set up the way they are downtown because that was his vision and he got black
01:46:01 --> 01:46:06 folks to make money off of that even to this day.
01:46:06 --> 01:46:08 Businesses and stuff around there.
01:46:09 --> 01:46:11 Mary and Barry too. Exactly.
01:46:12 --> 01:46:18 But Atlanta has the largest wealth gap of any city in the United States and
01:46:18 --> 01:46:20 black folks are in charge. Yes.
01:46:22 --> 01:46:25 Again, that's one of those like,
01:46:26 --> 01:46:30 are we really doing and and and and how much
01:46:30 --> 01:46:34 power do we really have if the
01:46:34 --> 01:46:40 goal of black politics was to increase and and strengthen black economics i
01:46:40 --> 01:46:44 you know the measuring stick is like i don't think we've achieved that you know
01:46:44 --> 01:46:48 and it's and that's and that's a hard pill to swallow for those of us who actually
01:46:48 --> 01:46:52 have been elected it's like damn I didn't do enough you know what I'm saying?
01:46:53 --> 01:46:59 Well, I think the thing is that when you're in it, it's really kind of hard
01:46:59 --> 01:47:01 to take a step back and evaluate.
01:47:02 --> 01:47:09 And one of the things I argue in the book is that we really have to spend more time as a community and,
01:47:10 --> 01:47:20 really focusing on the nuts and bolts of how do we get control of these institutions?
01:47:20 --> 01:47:24 Like, for example, you know, here in Orlando, you know, they have certain sections
01:47:24 --> 01:47:30 where Asians have their own centers and they have the bank there,
01:47:30 --> 01:47:34 they have a shopping center, they have the clothing center, they have the, you know,
01:47:34 --> 01:47:37 all in one, one, one stop shop.
01:47:37 --> 01:47:41 But the main piece of of that is the bank. Right.
01:47:41 --> 01:47:48 And so what I realized and I talk about this in the book is that we as as African-Americans
01:47:48 --> 01:47:53 in this country, first of all, we don't we don't own enough banks and we don't have enough.
01:47:53 --> 01:47:58 Even, even not even, not only just when we talk about, when I talk about banks, I'm talking about,
01:47:59 --> 01:48:03 financial institutions where I could deposit my money, you know,
01:48:03 --> 01:48:07 not just, you know, cause some people say, Oh, we got black banks,
01:48:07 --> 01:48:10 but a lot of black banks are just intermediaries to help,
01:48:11 --> 01:48:16 you know, intermediaries to like SBA loans and that type of thing, but they're not actual.
01:48:17 --> 01:48:20 Depositors, you know, where you could deposit money and then the money deals interest.
01:48:21 --> 01:48:25 So for one, we don't have enough of that. We don't have enough of that for one.
01:48:25 --> 01:48:31 And we don't have enough of, uh, of distribution centers when it comes to black
01:48:31 --> 01:48:33 owned stores and businesses.
01:48:33 --> 01:48:38 And so that's one of the things where, you know, when we had this march against,
01:48:38 --> 01:48:42 uh, pastor Jamal Bryant, you know, was leading that march against target.
01:48:42 --> 01:48:47 Right. And some of the other, uh, leaders, you know, the boycott target.
01:48:48 --> 01:48:54 It was like, okay, that's great. But then Walmart's profit shot up during that time period.
01:48:55 --> 01:48:59 So we abandoned Target to go to Walmart, you know, and instead of,
01:48:59 --> 01:49:03 and obviously you have to take baby steps, but it's, it's crazy that we're in
01:49:03 --> 01:49:08 2026, still talking about taking baby steps when we own,
01:49:08 --> 01:49:13 you know, we own stores, we own business, you know, Walmart was a little rinky
01:49:13 --> 01:49:18 dink store back in the day that built itself up, you know, and we had stores
01:49:18 --> 01:49:22 that were better than Walmart in the, in the, in the forties, fifties, and sixties.
01:49:22 --> 01:49:27 But then we abandoned it when we got a little piece of the, of the integration, you know?
01:49:27 --> 01:49:32 And so I didn't hear enough of Pastor Jamal Bryant and some of these other leaders
01:49:32 --> 01:49:35 who were talking about, uh, boycott target.
01:49:36 --> 01:49:39 You know, I didn't hear enough about not only shopping black,
01:49:39 --> 01:49:42 but Hey, how do we build black?
01:49:42 --> 01:49:45 It's not just shop black, build black. How do we build black?
01:49:46 --> 01:49:51 So now we have a viable alternative to the chain, the target chain stores.
01:49:51 --> 01:49:55 And obviously that takes a conglomerate of having black banks,
01:49:55 --> 01:49:59 of having black distribution centers, you know, all those things goes together,
01:49:59 --> 01:50:03 but I don't hear enough of our leaders really pushing that.
01:50:03 --> 01:50:07 And so we should have been pushing that since the 60s. And we were,
01:50:07 --> 01:50:09 Malcolm X was pushing, but then he got killed.
01:50:09 --> 01:50:12 And after that, we lost our way as far as that is concerned.
01:50:13 --> 01:50:18 And it's 2026 and we're still talking about boycotting some white corporation
01:50:18 --> 01:50:21 to go shop at another white corporation. And it's just insanity.
01:50:22 --> 01:50:23 Well, yeah. And I, you.
01:50:25 --> 01:50:32 Had a black bank in in Jackson Mississippi and and you know several of us were investors in it,
01:50:33 --> 01:50:36 and you know our problem was was that
01:50:36 --> 01:50:39 we were trying to do exactly what you were talking about but we
01:50:39 --> 01:50:42 opened ourselves up for the system to shut us
01:50:42 --> 01:50:46 down because we sold stocks and
01:50:46 --> 01:50:49 so there was a white
01:50:49 --> 01:50:52 bank that believed in what we were trying
01:50:52 --> 01:50:55 to do of course they were going to get something out of it
01:50:55 --> 01:50:58 right right right they bought like an incredible amount
01:50:58 --> 01:51:01 of shares and so what happened they did
01:51:01 --> 01:51:04 that thinking well black folks not really going to do anything so we
01:51:04 --> 01:51:07 got to step in and make sure this happens well it turned out
01:51:07 --> 01:51:13 black folks in the community bought shares right so we got to a point where
01:51:13 --> 01:51:18 it was like uh-oh now we're on the sec radar so then that was a whole different
01:51:18 --> 01:51:22 level that the folks that were that had organized the bank weren't ready for
01:51:22 --> 01:51:25 it they didn't right they didn't anticipate that we were going to be.
01:51:26 --> 01:51:29 Have that big of a an investment pool
01:51:29 --> 01:51:32 where we had to report to the sec and we had to
01:51:32 --> 01:51:35 pay these lawyers it it just it just got crazy
01:51:35 --> 01:51:40 and so that bank wanted to buy us and we was like no we're gonna go to it and
01:51:40 --> 01:51:45 we found liberty bank and that's why liberty bank is in jackson now because
01:51:45 --> 01:51:50 they were based out of new orleans and so they bought us out and so it's like
01:51:50 --> 01:51:52 so at least it stayed within a black bank.
01:51:52 --> 01:51:56 But like you said, a lot of the, and that's a whole different conversation we
01:51:56 --> 01:52:02 can get into, but it's, it's, you know, the banking system is totally different.
01:52:02 --> 01:52:07 And when you're talking about nation building, right, this, this whole thing
01:52:07 --> 01:52:12 with Lisa Cook and Jerome Powell and the president, it goes all the way back
01:52:12 --> 01:52:17 to Marbury and Madison that when you're talking about nation building, right.
01:52:17 --> 01:52:24 Got to have that one bank that is totally independent of the government to make
01:52:24 --> 01:52:26 sure that the economy is driven.
01:52:26 --> 01:52:28 So that's, yeah. Anyway, so
01:52:28 --> 01:52:31 let's, I got a couple more questions that I'm going to let you go ahead.
01:52:32 --> 01:52:37 A lot of your focus in chapter four, I believe, I think the chapter on political
01:52:37 --> 01:52:40 repair is on reparation.
01:52:40 --> 01:52:45 Is your argument that reparations will lead to equity and reform in America?
01:52:46 --> 01:52:52 Yes, I believe that reparations specifically for African-Americans who can trace
01:52:52 --> 01:53:00 their lineage in the plantation is very important in helping with equity.
01:53:00 --> 01:53:05 You know, when we talk about equity in equalizing the wealth gap between whites and blacks.
01:53:06 --> 01:53:15 And I also believe part of reviving or part of the reparations is reviving the Freedmen's Bureau.
01:53:15 --> 01:53:17 I believe that's very important.
01:53:17 --> 01:53:23 And then the other piece to it is, we gotta have some real.
01:53:24 --> 01:53:29 Like you just alluded to, you just talked about, we have to have black banks
01:53:29 --> 01:53:35 who understand the banking system and understand it at a very high level to
01:53:35 --> 01:53:39 help shepherd reparations specifically for African-Americans.
01:53:39 --> 01:53:46 I believe that's where, and it's not just about reparations, but I believe that is,
01:53:47 --> 01:53:54 base of any type of political and legal argument when it comes to African-Americans
01:53:54 --> 01:53:59 in this country, because we're a unique minority in the sense that,
01:53:59 --> 01:54:02 you know, we were forced over here.
01:54:02 --> 01:54:05 You know, we didn't willingly immigrate to this country.
01:54:05 --> 01:54:11 Every other group willingly immigrated to this country, except the African-Americans.
01:54:12 --> 01:54:17 So that is why reparations in itself is unique.
01:54:17 --> 01:54:24 And I believe a lot of, I believe, you know, because even you look at people like Ann Coulter,
01:54:24 --> 01:54:29 you know, some of these people starting to come around and believe in reparation,
01:54:29 --> 01:54:33 but although they believe in it more so, not believe in it, but more open to
01:54:33 --> 01:54:36 it, more so because it's one of those things where it's like,
01:54:36 --> 01:54:38 okay, let's just pay them off and get it over with.
01:54:38 --> 01:54:40 And now we never have to hear about racism again.
01:54:41 --> 01:54:46 I believe it's from that perspective, which, you know, you're always going to have racism.
01:54:47 --> 01:54:50 But at the same time, I believe that, you know, reparations,
01:54:51 --> 01:54:54 whether we're talking about cash or we're talking about land,
01:54:54 --> 01:54:56 it has to be either cash or land.
01:54:56 --> 01:55:00 I don't want to hear about college scholarships and any of those type of ancillary
01:55:00 --> 01:55:03 type of things. It has to be cash or land.
01:55:03 --> 01:55:07 And I believe that if that is to occur,
01:55:08 --> 01:55:12 then now, you know, you know, if the leadership is right,
01:55:12 --> 01:55:16 if the leadership is there really understanding, I believe that will really
01:55:16 --> 01:55:24 go a long way in equalizing, you know, as far as equalizing the wealth gap between whites and blacks.
01:55:24 --> 01:55:31 So, yeah, I, excuse me, I, I, I, I like the fact that you brought up the Freedmen
01:55:31 --> 01:55:34 Bureau because a lot of people were.
01:55:34 --> 01:55:39 Lot of our folks don't know that history, that there actually was a government
01:55:39 --> 01:55:43 agency set up for newly freed slaves.
01:55:44 --> 01:55:52 And it got basically dismantled because it was in the Department of War, right? Yes.
01:55:52 --> 01:55:56 Which is another reason why I don't like the Secretary of War.
01:55:56 --> 01:56:01 Yeah, that brings up too many bad memories. But, you know, what we call the
01:56:01 --> 01:56:04 Department of Defense now, that's where the Freedmen's Bureau was in.
01:56:04 --> 01:56:08 So if they cut the defense budget, then they cut the budget for the Bureau.
01:56:08 --> 01:56:11 And I'd say, if you're going to establish something like that,
01:56:12 --> 01:56:14 then it has to be a standalone agency.
01:56:14 --> 01:56:20 And so, you know, with its own appropriation and their sole purpose is to deal
01:56:20 --> 01:56:22 with, you know, and take care of us.
01:56:22 --> 01:56:26 Don't stick us in the Department of Interior like you've done with the Native Americans and all that.
01:56:27 --> 01:56:32 Right, right. Basically, it has to be created by Congress. It can be created
01:56:32 --> 01:56:38 under the executive of the president, which is what the Department of Defense
01:56:38 --> 01:56:40 is under the direction of the president.
01:56:41 --> 01:56:46 It has to be created by a Congress that's instatutory and the budget is allocated
01:56:46 --> 01:56:49 to that separate agency.
01:56:49 --> 01:56:54 And then I think once that is established, now we're gaining some,
01:56:54 --> 01:56:56 it doesn't necessarily have to be called the Freedmen's Bureau.
01:56:57 --> 01:57:02 But in the same vein of it, now we can start getting some traction as far as
01:57:02 --> 01:57:05 reparations is concerned. Yeah.
01:57:07 --> 01:57:10 Make you also make the argument that a black nationalist
01:57:10 --> 01:57:13 party could be successful in this
01:57:13 --> 01:57:15 era of trump why do you why do you
01:57:15 --> 01:57:23 think that i believe it could be successful because we have so many ways now
01:57:23 --> 01:57:30 to get information to people you know and even even before that i mean you look
01:57:30 --> 01:57:34 at what Ross Perot did in the 92 election, right?
01:57:34 --> 01:57:42 And so now coming back to here, I think a lot of people on both sides of the
01:57:42 --> 01:57:48 aisle, frankly, are getting tired of the party politics.
01:57:48 --> 01:57:53 And I think specifically African-Americans are getting tired of being placated
01:57:53 --> 01:57:55 by the Democratic Party.
01:57:56 --> 01:58:01 Far as on a national level, as far as our issues. Every other issue now is at
01:58:01 --> 01:58:04 the forefront and not the issues of African-Americans.
01:58:05 --> 01:58:10 And the problems of African-Americans, in my opinion, and from research and
01:58:10 --> 01:58:16 study has amplified over the years because of the treatment.
01:58:17 --> 01:58:22 You saw how Joe Biden, you saw what he said, he said that in,
01:58:22 --> 01:58:25 was it the NAACP conference?
01:58:25 --> 01:58:28 And one of those black leader conferences or whatever.
01:58:28 --> 01:58:32 He said, you're going to have to play nice with the Latinos. He said that,
01:58:32 --> 01:58:38 you know, so him saying that basically, you know, he was speaking as the head
01:58:38 --> 01:58:42 of the party and it's obviously a culmination of what type of talks they've
01:58:42 --> 01:58:44 had internally in a party.
01:58:44 --> 01:58:47 And it's just something on the forefront of his mind.
01:58:47 --> 01:58:54 So I believe a Black Nationalist Party can be successful in this era of Trump
01:58:54 --> 01:59:03 and beyond because I believe millennials and Gen Z are very much so feeling,
01:59:03 --> 01:59:04 especially millennials,
01:59:04 --> 01:59:07 are feeling the effects of this administration.
01:59:08 --> 01:59:14 I mean, when those tariffs went through last year, was being throttled off and on, off and on.
01:59:14 --> 01:59:19 I mean, that threw off. I mean, a lot of job loss occurred,
01:59:19 --> 01:59:25 a lot of job loss, a lot of decline in wealth in the properties that we do have
01:59:25 --> 01:59:30 as African-Americans, and especially for those of us who are millennials who own property.
01:59:30 --> 01:59:35 And so you're seeing the conversations happen online.
01:59:35 --> 01:59:41 So I do believe that even if it's just to organize at more so of a local level.
01:59:42 --> 01:59:46 I believe that a Black nationalist party, whether it's at a local level,
01:59:46 --> 01:59:52 state level, or even national level, can have some traction and play a key role.
01:59:52 --> 01:59:54 I mean, you see what the Green Party did.
01:59:55 --> 02:00:01 They have reparations on their agenda, and they got some good sizable vote.
02:00:01 --> 02:00:05 You know, and so so that's why I believe that a black nationalist party can
02:00:05 --> 02:00:09 be successful in the area of Trump, because, like I said, communication,
02:00:09 --> 02:00:16 the speed of information can really flow the speed to send money to campaigns,
02:00:16 --> 02:00:18 you know, for campaign contributions.
02:00:18 --> 02:00:23 You know, we have Zelle and all these other things. So I do believe it can be
02:00:23 --> 02:00:29 successful if done right and the right people emerge to push it forward.
02:00:29 --> 02:00:33 Yeah, and that's going to be the challenge.
02:00:34 --> 02:00:38 It was me and this other representative, Jim Evans, when we served.
02:00:38 --> 02:00:42 We used to tell people all the time, there's three divisions in the Mississippi
02:00:42 --> 02:00:45 House of Representatives. There's the white Democrats.
02:00:46 --> 02:00:51 White Republicans and us. Most of the time we were in coalition with the white
02:00:51 --> 02:00:55 Democrats, but every now and then we had to have a coalition of white Republicans
02:00:55 --> 02:00:59 to make sure that certain things, like for example,
02:01:00 --> 02:01:03 our state, when I was there, didn't have a department of Medicaid.
02:01:03 --> 02:01:07 It was contracted out to somebody to administrate.
02:01:07 --> 02:01:11 In Mississippi, we had a black doctor that had the contract.
02:01:12 --> 02:01:17 We had to, the Democrats wanted a state agency and the Republicans like,
02:01:17 --> 02:01:18 no, we like the contractor.
02:01:18 --> 02:01:23 So they would side with us so the black man could keep the contract.
02:01:24 --> 02:01:31 And so, you know, there's gotta, there's gotta be so much work and so much upheaval.
02:01:31 --> 02:01:35 And that could be a whole nother show between you and I doc on that one.
02:01:35 --> 02:01:43 And, you know, but And the only way I can see is that it has to be local and
02:01:43 --> 02:01:51 that we have to have setups like rank choice voting to give a black nationalist party a chance.
02:01:51 --> 02:01:56 Yes. Because if we if we just try to do it, we just say, OK,
02:01:56 --> 02:01:58 we're going to break away and we're just going to vote for black candidates.
02:01:58 --> 02:02:04 We did that until Fannie Lou Hamer crashed 64 convention in Atlantic City.
02:02:04 --> 02:02:08 And that's when black folks wholeheartedly went Democratic at that point because
02:02:08 --> 02:02:11 you had blacks in the north and the south. Sorry, Democrat then.
02:02:12 --> 02:02:16 But if we do it the traditional way, we try to get into like we ain't we ain't
02:02:16 --> 02:02:19 got we we collectively have the money of a Ross Perot, but.
02:02:20 --> 02:02:24 Know, we don't collectively pool our money to do something like that.
02:02:24 --> 02:02:28 So that, like I said, that's something because I got to let you go,
02:02:28 --> 02:02:33 but that's just something that we really got to get into and get into the teeth
02:02:33 --> 02:02:35 of that and how to make that happen.
02:02:35 --> 02:02:38 So let me, let's, let's finish it off like this.
02:02:39 --> 02:02:43 Excuse me. Finish this sentence. I have hope because.
02:02:43 --> 02:02:49 I have hope because the grassroots is awakening.
02:02:50 --> 02:02:56 I truly believe the grassroots is awakening to our condition,
02:02:57 --> 02:03:00 being educated to our condition.
02:03:00 --> 02:03:05 And I believe that eventually, you know,
02:03:06 --> 02:03:13 there's going to be wholesale changes in the mentality and the minds of our
02:03:13 --> 02:03:20 people to really understand what liberation really is and to execute.
02:03:21 --> 02:03:27 Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I, I share part of your hope on that one.
02:03:27 --> 02:03:32 I think, I think we do have an awakening grassroots. Yeah.
02:03:33 --> 02:03:38 But, you know, it's one thing to wake a child up is another thing to educate them. Yes.
02:03:40 --> 02:03:43 We got it. We got to get the education component together.
02:03:43 --> 02:03:49 Doctor, if if people want to get the book, if people want to reach out to you, how can they do that?
02:03:50 --> 02:03:55 They could go to my website, bitsandadjumal.com. My book, I sell signed copies
02:03:55 --> 02:04:00 of my book on the website, but also links to Amazon,
02:04:00 --> 02:04:05 links to Barnes & Noble, links to Harvard Bookstore. It's all over.
02:04:05 --> 02:04:10 Any major book retailer has the book so they can order that.
02:04:10 --> 02:04:14 And then also they can correspond with me on my website, speaking appearances,
02:04:15 --> 02:04:17 you know, that sort of thing.
02:04:17 --> 02:04:21 And also visit past lectures and interviews that I've had also.
02:04:22 --> 02:04:27 All right. Well, Dr. Vincent Edward, Olawale Adijumo, thank you so much,
02:04:28 --> 02:04:30 brother, for coming on the show. I greatly appreciate it.
02:04:31 --> 02:04:33 Thank you, sir. I greatly appreciate it as well. All right, guys.
02:04:33 --> 02:04:35 And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
02:04:47 --> 02:04:53 All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Leslie Marshall, Charlie Wells, and Dr.
02:04:53 --> 02:04:56 Vincent Adejumo for coming on the podcast.
02:04:56 --> 02:05:04 You know, I'm really, really fortunate to be able to get people to spend time on this podcast.
02:05:04 --> 02:05:10 Most of y'all, when you see people like that, you know, they get five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever.
02:05:10 --> 02:05:15 And so to be able just to spend a half hour with these people at the minimum,
02:05:16 --> 02:05:21 to talk about whatever they're doing or, you know, if they've written a book
02:05:21 --> 02:05:26 or whatever the case may be, it's really a blessing for me to be able to do that.
02:05:26 --> 02:05:29 And I hope that you look at it as a blessing for you all as listeners.
02:05:30 --> 02:05:35 So I just want to thank them. You know, Leslie and this other lady,
02:05:35 --> 02:05:39 Jessica Tarloff, are basically our voices of reason on Fox.
02:05:40 --> 02:05:47 Charlie is an incredible writer with Bloomberg, and his book is very, very compelling.
02:05:48 --> 02:05:55 He calls it a defense of millennials. I just look at it as somebody chronicling the journey.
02:05:55 --> 02:06:02 You know, he's a millennial himself, and the stories that he uses to craft a
02:06:02 --> 02:06:04 book are incredible. And then Dr.
02:06:04 --> 02:06:09 Vincent Adejumo, very, very intelligent, very, very personable,
02:06:10 --> 02:06:12 very progressive minded brother.
02:06:13 --> 02:06:19 And most definitely, you know, every guest has an open invitation to come back.
02:06:20 --> 02:06:26 And so, you know, and I try to make that clear either during the interview or even afterwards.
02:06:27 --> 02:06:31 But I don't think I've ever had a guest where I don't want them to come back.
02:06:31 --> 02:06:36 It doesn't matter even, you know, regardless of what their political position is and all that.
02:06:37 --> 02:06:42 So for those, especially those who were like the very first people to dip their toe in the water,
02:06:44 --> 02:06:49 You know, if you want to come back and come on, y'all are more than welcome to do that.
02:06:50 --> 02:06:54 But I greatly appreciate these guests, and I hope that you appreciated those interviews.
02:06:56 --> 02:06:59 So, you know, so much happens.
02:07:01 --> 02:07:09 In a span of a week in this Trump administration, it's kind of hard to just hone in on one thing.
02:07:10 --> 02:07:13 And then after I do my commentary, I was like, oh, man, I should have talked about that.
02:07:13 --> 02:07:17 You know, but it just it just is what it is. And there's so many of us doing
02:07:17 --> 02:07:21 these podcasts that if I don't address it, somebody else will.
02:07:22 --> 02:07:27 You know, because you got a lot of people focusing in on, you know,
02:07:27 --> 02:07:32 President Trump's mental acuity or his vindictiveness.
02:07:33 --> 02:07:39 And, you know, we still got this situation in Minnesota, which has only gotten worse.
02:07:40 --> 02:07:47 Right. You would think that after something of that magnitude would happen,
02:07:47 --> 02:07:51 that things would scale back a little bit.
02:07:51 --> 02:07:57 But this is why we made the comparisons to Bull Connor and others back in the
02:07:57 --> 02:08:02 60s, you know, the folks in Albany, Georgia and all these other places, St.
02:08:02 --> 02:08:06 Augustine, Florida, where they wanted to double down on the racism after Dr.
02:08:07 --> 02:08:11 King or whoever would show up, you know, they, they sent more people.
02:08:12 --> 02:08:16 They're even trying to get some folks from Alaska since they saw these videos
02:08:16 --> 02:08:19 of ice agents falling down in the ice and the snow.
02:08:19 --> 02:08:27 They've actually recruited a military unit from Alaska to come down to assist
02:08:27 --> 02:08:30 since they're trained in cold weather warfare.
02:08:31 --> 02:08:34 That's how crazy it is. They've actually tried to,
02:08:34 --> 02:08:44 they're actually investigating Governor Walz and Mayor Fry and basically anybody that is telling them,
02:08:44 --> 02:08:50 This is a bad idea for you to send 3 ICE agents and Border Patrol people
02:08:50 --> 02:08:52 to come to Minneapolis-St.
02:08:53 --> 02:08:54 Paul, right?
02:08:54 --> 02:08:59 So just to give you the magnitude of that, Minneapolis Police Department only
02:08:59 --> 02:09:01 has 600 police officers.
02:09:02 --> 02:09:10 And there's five times as many ICE agents and Border Patrol agents in Minneapolis
02:09:10 --> 02:09:12 right now. So you've got 3.
02:09:13 --> 02:09:16 And the city only has 600 police officers.
02:09:17 --> 02:09:23 That's how crazy the situation has gotten. And it was only 2 when they murdered Renee Good.
02:09:23 --> 02:09:26 And Jonathan Ross is still free.
02:09:27 --> 02:09:33 Kristi Noem has been lying ever since the shots went off.
02:09:33 --> 02:09:38 She lied about the woman being a terrorist. She lied about her being attacking
02:09:38 --> 02:09:42 them and stopping them from getting out of the snow and blocking traffic.
02:09:43 --> 02:09:48 She lied about all that. And so when a reporter, I think it was the lady that's
02:09:48 --> 02:09:54 on Face the nation, asked her, well, has Ross been suspended or anything like
02:09:54 --> 02:09:56 that? She says, we were just following the procedure.
02:09:57 --> 02:10:02 And when the lady read the procedure to her, she said, yeah,
02:10:02 --> 02:10:04 yeah, we're doing that. No, you're not.
02:10:05 --> 02:10:09 Because that man is, he's calling people and saying, hey, look,
02:10:09 --> 02:10:11 you know, they threatened my family and all this stuff.
02:10:11 --> 02:10:16 You know, I don't I don't want him to face a lynch mob.
02:10:16 --> 02:10:22 And so the easiest way to keep him from being a lynch mob is to treat him like
02:10:22 --> 02:10:27 any other officer involved in a shooting, especially a fatal shooting.
02:10:28 --> 02:10:33 Person needs to be on administrative leave. If you give him desk duty or whatever the case may be,
02:10:34 --> 02:10:39 you know, or just tell him to stay home, whatever, you know,
02:10:39 --> 02:10:44 but they can't even admit that they've suspended him because they haven't.
02:10:44 --> 02:10:47 They told you they weren't going to investigate it.
02:10:47 --> 02:10:52 We're going to investigate the governor of Minnesota.
02:10:52 --> 02:10:56 We're going to investigate the mayor of Minnesota, of Minneapolis because he
02:10:56 --> 02:10:59 told y'all to get the fuck out, right?
02:11:00 --> 02:11:06 But you're not going to investigate the guy that shot a 37-year-old mother of three.
02:11:07 --> 02:11:13 You're not going to investigate that at all, right? And you're prohibiting the
02:11:13 --> 02:11:19 local law enforcement from doing the same thing. Now, as I stated to Mr.
02:11:19 --> 02:11:26 Kimo last week, you got enough videotape to take that to a grand jury and just
02:11:26 --> 02:11:29 put the indictment out there. And I think that needs to happen.
02:11:30 --> 02:11:35 But I think the Minnesota officials are kind of like, bro, they sent another
02:11:35 --> 02:11:37 thousand after they shot the woman.
02:11:38 --> 02:11:41 If we indict the dude, how many more people are they going to send?
02:11:41 --> 02:11:43 They going to send the whole agency down here?
02:11:43 --> 02:11:46 They just going to take it. They going to declare martial law.
02:11:46 --> 02:11:49 I mean, so the Minnesota officials are kind of like.
02:11:50 --> 02:11:55 How are we going to play that? So at least they sued to try to get them out.
02:11:55 --> 02:12:00 And they were effective for a couple of, you know, at least 24 hours to stop
02:12:00 --> 02:12:03 them from using tear gas on the people.
02:12:03 --> 02:12:11 But then the federal circuit that they're on, the appeals court said, well, let's not.
02:12:11 --> 02:12:18 We're actually going to rule on that. So we don't need the injunction. Right.
02:12:20 --> 02:12:25 So, you know, we just have to watch it because whatever they do in Minneapolis,
02:12:25 --> 02:12:30 you know, they've tried it in L.A., saw how far they could push it.
02:12:30 --> 02:12:34 They got to Chicago, tried to see how far they could push it.
02:12:34 --> 02:12:38 And so Minneapolis now, it's gone to a whole nother level.
02:12:38 --> 02:12:43 And if they can succeed in Minneapolis, then it's coming to a city near you.
02:12:44 --> 02:12:48 And that's just the way it is. If they declare martial law, they can get the environment.
02:12:48 --> 02:12:52 To declare martial law, they're coming, right?
02:12:52 --> 02:12:58 And it's pretty obvious that they don't care. You heard Dr.
02:13:01 --> 02:13:06 Adejumo say, you know, in order to maintain white supremacy,
02:13:06 --> 02:13:07 they're going to make sacrifices.
02:13:08 --> 02:13:10 And they're looking at Renee Good as a sacrifice.
02:13:11 --> 02:13:15 Even though she is a white woman, here's what it is.
02:13:15 --> 02:13:19 They're looking at Ashley Babbitt, the young lady that got killed in January 6th.
02:13:20 --> 02:13:27 Look at her as, you know, a sacrifice, a martyr for the cause, right?
02:13:29 --> 02:13:37 So it is what it is on that. But even more so, and this is what really got me
02:13:37 --> 02:13:41 convinced that these folks are just going to do what they want to do.
02:13:41 --> 02:13:45 And yeah, I know some of y'all are like, well, what was the deal with Greenland?
02:13:45 --> 02:13:47 So Donald Trump did what he normally does.
02:13:49 --> 02:13:55 He had a fit. That's why him and Kim Jong-un get along, because they're the
02:13:55 --> 02:13:56 same type of personality.
02:13:56 --> 02:14:00 You know, I got these nuclear missiles. I'm going to use them if y'all don't
02:14:00 --> 02:14:03 pay attention to me. He does that to every new president that comes in.
02:14:04 --> 02:14:07 And then we got to make a decision what we're going to do with North Korea in
02:14:07 --> 02:14:11 about a week and then don't hear from them no more again, right?
02:14:12 --> 02:14:16 Either sanction them or in Donald Trump's case, go over there and hug I don't know.
02:14:18 --> 02:14:21 That's what President Trump does. He just, you know, he says,
02:14:21 --> 02:14:24 I'm going to tear a few or I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.
02:14:24 --> 02:14:25 We're going to invade whatever.
02:14:26 --> 02:14:29 It's like, hold on, Paul. Wait a minute. What do you want? You know,
02:14:29 --> 02:14:30 it's a kid having a tantrum.
02:14:31 --> 02:14:35 And so it was like the parent and all of us kicks in and it's like,
02:14:35 --> 02:14:36 all right, Mr. President, what do you want?
02:14:37 --> 02:14:40 What can I get you to stop kicking and screaming in the middle of the grocery store?
02:14:41 --> 02:14:45 What can I get you to stop crying and banging on the table? What can we do?
02:14:45 --> 02:14:48 You know, so they worked something out.
02:14:48 --> 02:14:55 And it sounds like what they had agreed to talk about when the folks from Greenland
02:14:55 --> 02:15:01 and Denmark came to the White House to talk to Secretary Rubio and Vice President Vance,
02:15:01 --> 02:15:05 they basically agreed to what they had talked about.
02:15:06 --> 02:15:09 Which is like, we ain't got no
02:15:09 --> 02:15:12 beef with you. If you want to expand the military base you got here, okay.
02:15:13 --> 02:15:15 Y'all want to have a submarine base. You want to have planes.
02:15:16 --> 02:15:19 You want to have aircraft carriers, whatever you want. We cool with that.
02:15:19 --> 02:15:20 We ain't got no beef with you.
02:15:22 --> 02:15:32 So there was that. But the House Oversight Committee, I guess it was oversight.
02:15:32 --> 02:15:36 It might have been judiciary. Whichever one Jim Jordan is over.
02:15:37 --> 02:15:47 The man who still has not yet responded to his subpoena and testified, had another hearing.
02:15:48 --> 02:15:53 And this one is with the special prosecutor, Jack Smith.
02:15:54 --> 02:15:58 I think that's his name, Smith, right? Let me double check that,
02:15:58 --> 02:16:03 make sure I don't get that wrong, Lord Jesus, because, you know, yeah, Jack Smith.
02:16:04 --> 02:16:13 So they had had a private hearing with him where he laid out basically what
02:16:13 --> 02:16:15 his case was on President Trump.
02:16:16 --> 02:16:23 And, you know, and so they decided, well, I guess we can have a public one now.
02:16:23 --> 02:16:28 Once they realize what he was going to say, then they can orchestrate it the way they want to.
02:16:28 --> 02:16:35 And, you know, these public ones are, you know, as one representative said,
02:16:35 --> 02:16:41 theater, where, you know, you don't, I don't know if you really get any good information out of it.
02:16:41 --> 02:16:45 But the Democrats get to do their thing.
02:16:45 --> 02:16:48 The Republicans get to do their thing. And then it's over.
02:16:49 --> 02:16:56 So, of course, you know, the Democrats were trying to get the substance of of
02:16:56 --> 02:17:02 his report concerning the election interference case,
02:17:02 --> 02:17:09 because he can't talk about the stolen documents case because Judge Aileen Cannon,
02:17:09 --> 02:17:12 who really understood her assignment,
02:17:12 --> 02:17:17 she understood Donald Trump appointed her, so she took care of him, right?
02:17:18 --> 02:17:27 She put a gag order on anything, any report dealing with that case until the end of February.
02:17:28 --> 02:17:32 So he couldn't talk about that case at all. The only thing he could talk about
02:17:32 --> 02:17:34 was the elections interference case.
02:17:34 --> 02:17:39 And, you know, the Democrats were, like I said, trying to get the substance
02:17:39 --> 02:17:44 of the case and, you know, why he felt like if he took it to trial that Donald
02:17:44 --> 02:17:45 Trump would have been convicted.
02:17:46 --> 02:17:50 And then, of course, Republicans were trying to highlight the fact that,
02:17:50 --> 02:17:51 you know, he's lost some cases.
02:17:54 --> 02:17:57 It was one case, he wasn't even the lead prosecutor, but he was on the team.
02:17:58 --> 02:18:02 And, you know, they were trying to attribute that as a loss for him, right?
02:18:03 --> 02:18:09 And, you know, and just hung up about, you know, the methodology,
02:18:09 --> 02:18:14 how he went about investigating instead of dealing with the facts.
02:18:15 --> 02:18:20 Except there's one particular legislator, and he's a gentleman out of Texas.
02:18:20 --> 02:18:24 His name is Troy Nehls. And he's not even running for re-election.
02:18:24 --> 02:18:29 I don't know what he's going to run for next, but he's not going to run for re-election.
02:18:30 --> 02:18:34 He was a sheriff down there, I want to say in Fort Bend County in Texas.
02:18:35 --> 02:18:38 And then he got elected to the legislature, the U.S. Congress.
02:18:40 --> 02:18:42 And so this is a guy that used to be in law enforcement.
02:18:44 --> 02:18:50 And right after January 6th happened, he was one of those Republicans that's
02:18:50 --> 02:18:53 like, Everybody needed to go to jail that was involved with it, right?
02:18:54 --> 02:19:01 But now, even in his last days, he has become a Trump apologist.
02:19:02 --> 02:19:10 And so he went as far as to say that Jack Smith was going after the wrong people.
02:19:11 --> 02:19:14 Now, he wasn't one of those folks with the conspiracy theory,
02:19:14 --> 02:19:20 oh, the FBI put people in to agitate the people. No, he wasn't doing his conspiracy theories.
02:19:21 --> 02:19:25 He wanted to lay the blame totally on the Capitol Police.
02:19:26 --> 02:19:32 He wanted to say that it was the Capitol Police's fault that these people stormed the Capitol building.
02:19:33 --> 02:19:40 And, unfortunately for him, there were four former Capitol Police officers.
02:19:41 --> 02:19:45 One of them has been on the podcast, Aquanino Gunnell.
02:19:46 --> 02:19:52 And Sergeant Gunnell, he was there, Mike Fanone and Harry Dunn.
02:19:53 --> 02:19:58 And there was another one there, too. I couldn't remember who he was. But it was four of them.
02:19:58 --> 02:20:01 And he said that in front of them.
02:20:02 --> 02:20:07 And Mr. Ferdinand, who, you know,
02:20:07 --> 02:20:12 I think it was up to him if, you know, when they have this big UFC thing at
02:20:12 --> 02:20:16 the White House, he would volunteer to take on anybody in the administration,
02:20:17 --> 02:20:19 including the president, right?
02:20:20 --> 02:20:23 He basically said that was bullshit.
02:20:24 --> 02:20:29 And when Nehls addressed that, he gave him the finger.
02:20:30 --> 02:20:34 And of course it's like well that's inappropriate now what's inappropriate is
02:20:34 --> 02:20:41 that you have no soul congressman else you have no soul you you are a guy that
02:20:41 --> 02:20:43 was in law for the last person to throw,
02:20:44 --> 02:20:51 officers doing their job correctly right is another law enforcement especially
02:20:51 --> 02:20:55 somebody that was in a leadership position in law enforcement now you want to
02:20:55 --> 02:21:00 blame these guys But you ain't said nothing about Mr.
02:21:00 --> 02:21:06 Ross shooting Renee Good in the face other than whatever the talking point is.
02:21:06 --> 02:21:09 Oh, she was she was a terrorist. She was an agitator.
02:21:10 --> 02:21:15 You'll defend that guy, but you're not going to defend the people that saved your life.
02:21:15 --> 02:21:18 Right. Because you were in Congress. You were there.
02:21:20 --> 02:21:24 In the building. These guys protected you.
02:21:24 --> 02:21:29 And then you had the audacity in front of the special prosecutor who was trying
02:21:29 --> 02:21:31 to put the people in jail who were responsible for that.
02:21:32 --> 02:21:36 You had the nerve to tell him that he was going after the wrong people that
02:21:36 --> 02:21:38 you should have been after the Capitol Police.
02:21:39 --> 02:21:43 These are the people that have to be, and I'm glad he's not running for re-election.
02:21:44 --> 02:21:48 And I hope that if he runs for dog catcher or school board or whatever in the
02:21:48 --> 02:21:52 future that he's never elected anything again, right?
02:21:52 --> 02:21:56 Because these are the people that have made our situation untenable.
02:21:59 --> 02:22:07 What even compelled you to say that in this moment when the Department of Justice
02:22:07 --> 02:22:11 is not even investigating a fatal shooting,
02:22:11 --> 02:22:15 a use of force action in law enforcement terms?
02:22:16 --> 02:22:21 They're not even investigating that, but you want to blame the people who saved
02:22:21 --> 02:22:24 your life for the insurrection.
02:22:25 --> 02:22:28 That's the illogic that's out there.
02:22:28 --> 02:22:33 And the only way that we can get rid of that is that we got to vote these people out.
02:22:34 --> 02:22:37 You know, there's some people say, well, you know, there's got to be a good
02:22:37 --> 02:22:42 Republican somewhere. Well, until you find them, get these out.
02:22:42 --> 02:22:46 They got to go. All of them. All of them.
02:22:47 --> 02:22:51 Because all of them to get to the point where they are right this minute have
02:22:51 --> 02:22:56 kissed that ring, have said that Donald Trump is this or Donald Trump is that.
02:22:56 --> 02:23:01 Whether it's been on a campaign stump or on TV or wherever, they've acquiesced
02:23:01 --> 02:23:04 to it because they've wanted that blessed Trump endorsement.
02:23:04 --> 02:23:08 There are people that in the Republican primary, that's what they're doing.
02:23:08 --> 02:23:10 I'm more Trumpian than he is.
02:23:10 --> 02:23:13 I'm more Trumpian than she is. Right?
02:23:14 --> 02:23:17 That's how a Republican primary looks in the United States.
02:23:19 --> 02:23:24 So all of them got to go. Now, the reality is they're all not.
02:23:24 --> 02:23:30 There's some districts that a Democrat can't win if it's Michael Jordan or Jim
02:23:30 --> 02:23:33 Brown or Jesus Christ. A Democrat can't win.
02:23:34 --> 02:23:40 And that's the fault of those people to not be open-minded. Right? But...
02:23:43 --> 02:23:52 A man can dream, a man can wish, and I wish and I pray that all 435 seats are
02:23:52 --> 02:23:54 Democratic in the House.
02:23:55 --> 02:23:59 All 100 seats in the Senate are Democratic.
02:23:59 --> 02:24:06 That would be my goal from this point forward, until the Republican Party renounces
02:24:06 --> 02:24:11 anything to do with the Trump administration, Just like the Confederate States
02:24:11 --> 02:24:14 had to renounce being a part of the Confederacy in order to come back in.
02:24:15 --> 02:24:20 You want me to consider you for a vote. You basically have to say Trump ain't shit.
02:24:22 --> 02:24:25 Was, never will be for me to even entertain what you have to say.
02:24:26 --> 02:24:32 And that's the way we all should be because there's nothing that this guy has done, nothing.
02:24:32 --> 02:24:38 And I've tried to bring out some positive points, but I'm done with equivocating.
02:24:38 --> 02:24:41 I'm done with trying to be cordial.
02:24:42 --> 02:24:46 They all got to go, all of them. They do not need, and especially at the national
02:24:46 --> 02:24:51 level, more importantly, in the southern states, y'all got to realize these
02:24:51 --> 02:24:54 folks don't care about you. They only care about that dude.
02:24:54 --> 02:24:58 And that dude doesn't care about any of them. He doesn't care about any of us.
02:24:59 --> 02:25:02 This man has made, him and his family has made over $2 billion.
02:25:04 --> 02:25:09 Just this go around, let alone the millions of dollars he made the first term.
02:25:10 --> 02:25:14 Remember the old post office that turned into this Trump International Hotel?
02:25:15 --> 02:25:20 I just need y'all. Well, he said he was whatever he says is a lie.
02:25:21 --> 02:25:26 You know, he's having remorse now because it was like he found out that Renee
02:25:26 --> 02:25:28 Goods' dad supported him.
02:25:28 --> 02:25:32 So he's like, well, you know, I guess it was a tragedy. You were one of the
02:25:32 --> 02:25:34 people jumping out there saying she was a terrorist.
02:25:35 --> 02:25:36 You didn't apologize for that.
02:25:37 --> 02:25:42 Well, I hope you can support me. You're not running for anything else ever again.
02:25:42 --> 02:25:46 And no, I can tell you, whatever talking to the man, whatever it means,
02:25:46 --> 02:25:50 he'll never support you for anything else because you took away his daughter.
02:25:51 --> 02:25:56 There's nothing you could say to tell that man to support you. Nothing.
02:25:57 --> 02:26:00 Because you took away his daughter and you lied on her.
02:26:01 --> 02:26:06 So don't even worry about that at night anymore. Don't even think about that.
02:26:06 --> 02:26:09 He's not on your team anymore. Right?
02:26:09 --> 02:26:11 Because I wouldn't. Right?
02:26:13 --> 02:26:18 That to my child. Now, that's it. He tried to tell me. I didn't want to listen.
02:26:19 --> 02:26:22 Now I've lost my child. I'm done.
02:26:22 --> 02:26:26 I'm not Lindsey Graham. I'm not going to move as the wind blows.
02:26:27 --> 02:26:30 You kill my child. That's the end of the support.
02:26:31 --> 02:26:34 And my remorse is that I supported you in the first place to put you in a position
02:26:34 --> 02:26:36 where you would take my child out.
02:26:36 --> 02:26:39 I would have that guilt for the rest of my life.
02:26:40 --> 02:26:45 So for the rest of y'all that still, I don't know why you're listening to my
02:26:45 --> 02:26:53 podcast, but if you are and you still support this bed, just beware because
02:26:53 --> 02:26:55 the next child could be yours.
02:26:56 --> 02:27:02 Because if they get what they want and they run all of us out of the country, who's left?
02:27:03 --> 02:27:09 And you think just because you're white, that's going to protect you? No. It's not.
02:27:09 --> 02:27:11 That's not how authoritarians operate.
02:27:13 --> 02:27:17 Everybody must bend the knee. If you raise up just a little bit,
02:27:17 --> 02:27:20 your problem has to be total subservience.
02:27:21 --> 02:27:27 Slavery, even. And America is not built like that. Never has been, never will be.
02:27:28 --> 02:27:36 Everybody has fought the system in one way or another. That's the American way. so.
02:27:38 --> 02:27:43 November 3rd 2026 is coming I need y'all to get out and vote accordingly.
02:27:46 --> 02:27:50 And we'll see how that goes from there. But please stop voting in people like
02:27:50 --> 02:27:55 Donald Trump and Troy Nels and J.D. Vance. Just stop voting for these people.
02:27:55 --> 02:27:58 Just stop. They don't care about you.
02:27:58 --> 02:28:05 All they care about is power and prestige and money.
02:28:05 --> 02:28:10 You have to vote for American leaders. Now, if you can find an American leader
02:28:10 --> 02:28:12 in the Republican Party, okay.
02:28:12 --> 02:28:17 It has to be somebody new because the ones up there, I mean,
02:28:17 --> 02:28:24 we got people that were questioning a prosecutor who have a criminal record.
02:28:25 --> 02:28:28 Dan Issa, you got pardoned.
02:28:29 --> 02:28:32 You're not innocent. You got pardoned. I'm just saying.
02:28:36 --> 02:28:40 Let's do better, y'all. Let's fight for the nation that we want.
02:28:40 --> 02:28:46 This is the 250th anniversary of us declaring our independence from an empire.
02:28:47 --> 02:28:49 Let's not keep supporting a new one.
02:28:49 --> 02:28:53 Thank y'all for listening. Until next time. Thank you.