Ep 377: The Need for Prison Reform

[00:00:01] Liquor Talk, another new podcast starts now. Shout out to everybody that's been tuning in. Shout out to everyone that's been tuning in, joining the podcast, having a drink with me, y'all. I'm your man, Vic. I'm back again for another episode. I hope y'all enjoyed last week's episode because I got another author for you guys, for you all. Thank you to our friends at PodMatch for bringing us this guest today. She is joining us from Houston, Texas, H-Town in the house.

[00:00:29] We got Miss Rochelle Conley in the house today, having a drink with us. How you doing today, Rochelle? I'm good. I'm good, Victor. How are you? I'm doing wonderful. I'm finally glad we were able to connect because you're definitely somebody I wanted to have on because the things we go through, it sounds like you've been through them and we definitely need to hear your story. And I hear that you're a Swiss Army knife. You got an album coming out. You didn't...

[00:00:57] I don't know if you told people on PodMatch this, but you got music on the way and you done wrote a book. Tell us about what you got going on. Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All glory to God. That's where all my honor goes. So it's been a journey. I'm just trying to take all my pain and turn it into purpose and be an asset to somebody else. And, you know, some people listen to PodMatches. Some people listen to podcasts. Some people listen to music. Some people like videos.

[00:01:26] So I'm trying to get tuned with whichever door opens up for me and make it happen to where we reach everybody around the world. I feel that. I definitely feel that because we definitely got voices out here and we definitely need to be heard from all around the world. So tell me a little about your story because I see you were on both sides of the system. You went from being an inmate to being a prison officer because I know most people, as soon as they get out of prison,

[00:01:55] they're not trying to go right back into the prisons. So tell me, how did that happen? Well, the reason why I chose to be a correctional officer, because most correctional officers are going from being a correctional officer to being inmates. So I thought I'd switch it up a little bit. I ended up, I want to say the first time I went to prison was in 1991.

[00:02:21] I started off in 88, 89 as a juvenile, but the adult system, I went in there like 1991. And while in the penal system, I had been sexually abused by a correctional officer, sexually assaulted by a correctional officer. And that wasn't the first time. There was times that I had been willingly involved with officers at a young age, not knowing. Of course, I knew it was wrong.

[00:02:47] But at the time, when you're dealing with you're that young, 17, 18, when it first started happening, I was 14. So that was molestation. That happened in the juvenile system. But as I got and I started messing with correctional officers, it caused me more hurt than harm. And the reason why I'm so big on prison reform, because there's a lot of inmates that get involved with officers, rather willingly or unwillingly. And no inmate can consent to it. So it's still wrong. It's still illegal.

[00:03:17] And a lot of officers are getting to resign. They're quitting. They're losing their jobs. They're resigning. They're coming back to visit inmates that they've been sexually involved with while in the penal system as a correctional officer. They're coming back. They're being able to marry officers. And so that's what gave me the perspective that I really, because of all the trauma and the stuff that I encountered from that,

[00:03:42] I wanted to go back and hopefully be able to help share my story and help somebody else, because it's a distraction. When I was in the juvenile system and I went in there with the intention to do what I needed to do to better myself, I was an officer came on to me. Mind you, I was 14 years old. I was already dealing with abandonment, rejection, because my mom had gave me a way to foster care. So now I'm in the system. I'm a ward of the state at 14. But before that, I was a straight A student, ran track and cheerleaded. She just dropped me off one day.

[00:04:12] So that took my life for a big turn. And at the time, I was pregnant. Being that I was a ward of the state, kept running away. They locked my little butt up in Warrenville. And when you go into a penal system, it's for rehabilitation. It's for you to correct what's going on. That's why they call it Department of Corrections. I didn't get the opportunity to do that in neither one of the facilities that I ever was in. And it came from being involved with a correctional officer. So my desire is to see things change.

[00:04:39] They're losing, the system is losing too many officers to custodial sexual misconduct. And when I went to work for the Department of Corrections, mind you, 19 years later, and saw the same thing taking place now that was taking place back in the 90s and early 2000s, something's got to give. Wow. The repeat offender rate is so high. Like, the repeat offender rate is so high because if you don't get the lesson, you're going to do what? You're going to go back. You're going to go back.

[00:05:06] And you're going to continue to go back because you're not doing anything to better yourself. Of course. That's usually what happens. But I know I've seen prisons in other countries. They actually rehabilitate and prepare people to come out. They don't do that here in America because all in America, they only care about the dollars. And a lot of these prisons, a lot of these correction places are ran by private companies who they use in the prisons for prison labor.

[00:05:35] So did you get to experience that? Because I see a lot as well. And then I know of a case here in Florida where a young 20-year-old, they spared him the death penalty, but they gave him life in prison because he's like, we could use the prison labor. So my thing about that is if they don't start holding these officers accountable, accountability.

[00:06:01] The reason why there's such a prison shortage is because they're losing so many officers to custodial sexual misconduct. Officers have plenty off inmates. They sell them to, when I was in training, they showed us this video. And in the video, it taught you how to be corrupt. They tell you about how officers have gotten inmates pregnant, how they're bringing in cell phones. They tell you about the tobacco and all this other stuff.

[00:06:28] So when I went to work for this male prison in Kansas, it kind of blew my hair back because I was seeing more drugs, more stuff than I had seen pretty much on the outside. And when you address a situation with your coworkers or try to correct it, they come against you. Like my staff hated me. The prison that I worked at, the line staff, they hated me. We had a new warden. He was trying to make it a better facility. It had so many riots.

[00:06:58] It had so many dying, people dying in this prison. So the goal is he was trying to bring in good staff, people that do focus on character and integrity, choosing to do the right thing, whether somebody's looking or not. Those type of employees to try to make it a safer place, not just for inmates, but for staff. But you got staff that chooses to do what it is that they want to do. And because of that, everybody is affected. Everybody's affected.

[00:07:25] The offenders, the offenders family, as well as the staff, the good staff that want to help encourage and motivate inmate professionally to rehabilitate themselves. So they don't come back or to accomplish some while they are there. Get a GED or utilize all the good programs that they have in the system. But you don't get the opportunity to. And why do you feel that is? Do they just care more about making a dollar than actually rehabilitating prisoners?

[00:07:58] Their money is coming off the inmates. A lot of staff is making money off inmates. They're selling them cell phones. How many inmates? There's a TikTok group called We Locked In. There are so many inmates on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. And officers are charging them $1,000 plus. I've talked to some inmates and I ask them not people that are incarcerated now, but people who have gotten out of the system. And I've asked them, you know, that have had cell phones.

[00:08:26] They said they pay $1,000 to $1,500 for a phone from an officer. Damn. A damn money. You got to make that shit make sense. My question is, how are they making that kind of money in prison? Because I know they're only making $1,500. Why do you think so many people be calling their family asking them to cash app such and such? Oh. Yeah. You get a lot of inmates reaching out.

[00:08:53] And I personally, when I talk to families, I speak on it because me, my son's been in jail before. And when he called me one day, told me to cash app somebody, I told him, I'm not cashing no damn body. And whatever you got going on, you need to sit down somewhere and focus on getting your GED. And I hung up. And made him get blocked it to where he had to do what he had to do so he could better himself. No. The system is set up pretty much now, I feel like, for failure.

[00:09:23] And the reason why I say that, because there's no accountability. You know your staff is dirty. And instead of you removing them, you allow them to stay there because you feel like it's a staff shortage. Quantity over quality. Quality over quantity, I think. You have to be dying in the system. No parent's having to get they called that their child OD'd or died in the prison system. If it wasn't natural causes. Right.

[00:09:53] Definitely, definitely. They need to definitely reform the system. But on a personal note, what did you do to get locked up in prison? And how did it make you feel years later when you found out your son got arrested? Well, I used to go to jail for stealing. I was what they used to call a booster. Sticky fingers. I started learning how to do that when I was at a young age. Like I said, I was in foster care. And I didn't want to stay in the foster system. So I became a runaway.

[00:10:22] I would run away and I ran to, they used to call them John Hay homes, which was the projects. And ended up hanging around people that were older than me and they turned me out on stealing. And I would steal to take care of myself. I never was into prostitution or selling my body or nothing. So that was my hustle. I stole clothes. I sold them for money or I stole clothes to support myself. I stole clothes to feed myself or I stole food. And I got caught a lot. Like I got caught a lot. I done been in prison seven times.

[00:10:51] That's just as an adult. That don't count the juvenile. Oh, wow. Yeah. I've been in it. And this is why you could tell the system is messed up. I should have never been able to become a correctional officer. Somebody who's been in prison that many times. Yeah, that was part of my next question. How in the world were you able to become a correctional officer? Because I know they do extensive background checks.

[00:11:20] Or you tell me they don't do extensive background checks. They don't do their job. When I applied for my job, I told them, I'm a felon. I've been in and out of the system. And the lady told me they're so short of staff, she said, don't even worry about it. I told her I was working with a program called Clean Slate to get some stuff, a sponge off of my record. And it was all just, she asked me what my charge was. I said, retail fell. She said, oh, don't worry about it. She said, just go ahead and fill out your application and don't mark the felon down.

[00:11:47] Because once you're applying for the expunge stuff, you don't have to say that you're a felon. And she said, we're going to run your background. We'll see what happens. And I got a call that I got hired. Wow. So it didn't come up. Because I figure you would think on the background, somebody that's been to prison would have came up. I don't think they cared because it was retail theft.

[00:12:13] I think they would have been more concerned if I don't have any batteries. I don't have any drug offenses. I don't have no violent crimes. I don't have no fraud. I just was sticky fingers. That's it. Oh, wow. Wow. Because I've seen people go to jail for worse of things. And I'm like, wow. So what's something you learned that you were able to pass on to people who were in the system? So no one ever knew I had been in prison before.

[00:12:43] Of course, I would never let the inmates know that. And I would never let the staff know that. So when I went in as a correction officer, my goal was to help somebody get the rehabilitation that they need professionally, which means that when I go to work, I'm there to encourage, to motivate, to push you. Because you socialize with them, but there's a time limit. I'm totally against you sitting there talking to an inmate for eight hours a day. Every day. That's how you get bonds.

[00:13:12] That's how you create a bond. I never did that. I talk to them, like, what are you doing on the unit? Hey, you got your GED? You got a high school diploma? They'd be like, no, you need to be signed up for something. Like, why are you just sitting here wasting your time? Well, I got a lot of time. Okay, so I know a young man who did 15 years, and he started his rehabilitation when he walked in that door. He came home with nine certificates, a cosmetology license, and all types of stuff to better himself. Wow. So rehabilitation, and he's amazing.

[00:13:42] Love him to death. So rehabilitation is possible. My whole thing is you got to want it. See, the system has a setup to where people, they feel like your last six months is when they want to push you to get involved, to start your rehabilitation. No, it starts the day they walked in their door, and they start the day with us. Us doing the right thing, whether they're looking or not. Not condoning the behavior. Not subjecting them to selling drugs for us and making us money in the penal system. That's not how this works.

[00:14:12] I couldn't be an asset. When I tell you them inmates hated me, they hated me. When I first got there, they hated me because I did things by the book. I did my checks every 15 minutes. I had a staff tell me, he was like, man, you need to sit down. He's like, you got to learn how to work smart or not hard. And I told him, I said, well, first of all, you're sitting in falsifying documentation because you were putting in the computer that you're doing checks and you're not. And when I tell you, he got so mad at me, he was pissed off. And ever since then, I had nothing but issues with other staff.

[00:14:42] My whole thing is, I was off for two days, came back to work, and an inmate had died. Actually, it was two. One got beat in his room, and the other one hung himself. And I told that staff, I asked him, was he working that day? And it was like, yeah. I said, that's why that boy died. I said, because had he been doing his checks, he could have caught that. It'd take a minute to hang out. Think about it. It takes some time to hang yourself. It does.

[00:15:11] That is so, that's messed up, you know, that the staff is, got some staff in prisons that are so corrupted. So why doesn't the warden or the state come in and do an internal sweep? Are they just scared of accountability? I think they're scared of the fact that they don't have enough heads. They don't have enough staff to do what it is that they really want to do. And my whole thing is, like I said, I'd rather have a few good ones than a whole bunch of bad ones.

[00:15:41] You can lock that facility down. Get rid of the ones that you need. They have some prisons that's 24-hour lockdown. So I feel like if your prison is out of control, lock it down. Get rid of the staff that you know is bringing in drugs, selling drugs, and doing all this stuff that's causing your facility to be corrupt and making it more dangerous than it has to be. I mean, staff about passing stuff. I had an officer. We took some kids, some young men out to the yard, and we were bringing them back.

[00:16:09] These grown men, because it was an adult prison. So we're bringing them back. Besides, there's one male who she's always around that she's going to take to get some ice. So my inmate said, Miss C, would you take me to get some ice? So I'm like, yeah. So I'm walking in to get some ice. I'm new at the facility. She said, you need to take him back to his room. They don't go to get ice. And he got ready to go off. I said, hey, hold on. Hold on. Because he was cool with me. I said, young man, I just need you to do me a favor.

[00:16:36] Because he wasn't going to go in your room and let me lock you up. Don't not react. I promise you I'll handle it. He was like, all right, Miss C. I was able to put him in his room. I pulled her to the side after she took her inmate to get to his ice and then back to his room, which I think was her lover. I told her, I said, one thing about me, I don't do for one what I'm not going to do for all of them. Hmm. How are you going to take him to get some ice but then say he couldn't get no ice? See, that's how riots get started. So she got mad at me.

[00:17:06] She called a captain. The captain came and removed me off the unit. As soon as they pulled me off the unit, guess what happened? The inmate went off and they started setting mattresses on fire. They ended up having to come back over there and take her off the unit. See, inmates look for consistency. Mind you, I used to be an inmate. They watch and pay attention to everything that you do. But see, staff, when there's money involved and it's beneficial to them, they're not going to say nothing. This is how they eat.

[00:17:36] They feel like they don't make enough money, so they're doing what? They're hustling the system. Wow. Yes, I get it because it is tough out here, but it's still no excuse to be hustling the system. And you really not rehabilitating officers. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Liquor Talk. The more you drink, the better we sound. This is a podcast where you just never know what you're going to get, y'all. One week we're talking about crazy sexual things.

[00:18:04] Next week we're talking about something serious like prison reform and getting out of prison like we're talking to today, y'all. So shout out to everybody that's tuned in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, wherever you get your podcasts at. So talk to me about, so you know the TV shows with prisons and stuff. How much of that was true and how much of that was just for Hollywood? No, I believe 95% of it's true. It was.

[00:19:02] Yes, their goal is to go home. Of course. But what about someone that's in there for life now? Have you had to deal with someone that's in there for life? And what was that experience like? So I had one young man when I was working in Kansas who had a life sentence. And I would talk to him sometimes with the rest of the inmates, and I would try to motivate them and encourage them.

[00:19:26] And I had a situation that took place where my staff was trying so hard to get me hurt by inmates. The inmates. No. Yes. Yes. I had to resign. So we had a new warden, and like I said, he was shaking things up. He said everyone needs to lock down. He said you need to key them out because we had just had a riot. Staff got beat real bad with padlocks and stuff. So he wanted everybody locked down. When they go to the child, he said key them in and out.

[00:19:54] Do not pop that key out and let everybody out because you might not be able to get them back in. So they waited until I got to working. And the officer that I was working with, he got ready. I said, dude, I was going to the rooms letting them in. Who coming out? Let the one come out, one come out. So finally the inmates was like, man, F that. She taking too long. Told the officer, man, hit that kiosk. He hit the kiosk. Let everybody out. I couldn't get them back in.

[00:20:20] They was telling me to shut up, mind my business, calling me bitches, talking about they'll rape me and all types of stuff. So I'm sitting there and I'm calling for backup. Nobody responded to me. I can hear them laughing. When I press the thing down, when they didn't hang it up, they told my miss kindly and they in the background laughing. I'm calling the code. They all out. They won't lock up. I need somebody over here to assist me. So finally, like 10 minutes later, I can kind of gotten a little counterpart. But it was one dude, the dude I was talking about that was a lifer.

[00:20:47] He was like, look, ain't nobody finna touch her and bend on. None of y'all say nothing else to missy. So finally, the officer, the sergeant, him and some other ones walked in. And I said, the warden said that all of them need to be locked up. He was like, man, look, ain't nobody studying at the ward. These are people that are line staff. This is why I did that video that I did on some of y'all that are coming into position, higher positions. Y'all got that position to make change.

[00:21:16] I'm talking about the new ones. And my whole thing is you do not let no line staff, no correctional officer tell you how to do your job. I don't care how long they've been there. That's the problem. Some of them are scared to get rid of those because they've been there so long. Them the ones they need to get rid of. That day I could have got killed. But luckily it was one, that lifer, he said, you know, he defended me and it wasn't his job to defend me. But luckily he had enough rank on that unit to keep them calm.

[00:21:47] So finally I told him, I said, I tell you what, I handed him my badge and I said, I resign. I will never lose my life in no prison. So I came back to work the next day and I had some, a lady officer, she said, the inmates want you to, one to holler at you and ask me to come over to you. So I go to the unit and they was like, Missy, you quitting? And I said, yeah, half of y'all don't like me no way. This is the ones that came out their room and wouldn't go back in and was talking all that stuff. They was like, man, we do fool you, Missy. We do.

[00:22:15] Like, you the only person that's here that's been consistent. I had one inmate tell me, I just started writing my book. The other one said, I didn't got saved. I'll go to church now. I didn't realize the impact that I was making on them. But I let them know because of the situation with my coworkers, I couldn't do it no more. I told them, I only want to see y'all get better. Y'all say I don't understand, but you just don't know I understand more than y'all know.

[00:22:41] And I know of a person who did seven incarcerations and never got nothing out of it. And today she's still living that same lifestyle because she didn't learn her lesson. And they just looked at me, not knowing that that was my story. If you don't get the assignment, you'll go back and you'll go back. How many people violate parole? 50% of them. Plenty of them. They go out. Wow. They could have did years. You think, okay, they going to stay out.

[00:23:11] They just did 20 years. Go right back. The dude I'm talking about did, he the only person I know. Only person I know that got out and will not. You can't pay that boy to do nothing wrong. He did 15 years. Went to jail when he was 15, got out when he was 32. Wow. That's good for him. So why do you think that is that people are so accustomed to becoming career criminals instead of staying out like the one did?

[00:23:39] Because I've seen stories of plenty of people, whether it's celebrities or just regular people, even people in our own families, that they go in and come back out. They just don't stay home. I had an uncle who he managed to get out of jail after doing a 20-year sentence. He managed to stay home until he died. But plenty of others, they just go right back in the system. Is it because of the need for changing the system or is it their mindset? No. Changing the system. You can't change your mindset when everything that's going on.

[00:24:08] When you can go into the prison system and do the same thing in prison that you do outside in the world, where's the rehabilitation in that? Hmm. If I can go into jail and sell dope and I went to jail for selling dope, where's the rehabilitation? Wow. Ain't none. Ain't none. So talk to me. Is that why? Was that the biggest motivation behind the Conley Act? And where did you get it?

[00:24:37] Did you get it passed in Texas? So, no. I am from Illinois and I'm still fighting for the Conley Act. But let me explain to you what the Conley Act is. The Conley Act protects those against custodial sexual misconduct. I feel like if you are an officer and you get sexually involved with an inmate, you should never get to resign. You should never get to be charged with custodial sexual misconduct, a class three felony. Being that no inmate can consent to it, whether they were a willing participant or not, there is no willing.

[00:25:04] When we sign in as a correctional officer, we are to protect and to serve, not to be sexually involved, not to use our power for our advantage to prey on vulnerable people. That's not our job. So when you become a correctional officer and you take that position, if you choose to get out of character and integrity, then you need to be charged with aggravated criminal sexual assault or rape. I'm pushing it to where you have to register as a sex offender. And the reason why I say that is because maybe I'm not going to say it's going to stop, but maybe it'll slow it down some.

[00:25:34] They're losing too many staff to being sexually involved with inmates. The fact that an officer can resign and come back in and visit the inmate that she quit for or marry that person, that's condoning the behavior. They don't realize that when they lose staff, it does not just affect that person. You got a lot of good staff. You got a lot of correctional officers that want to see people rehabilitated.

[00:26:04] But now because they've lost the staff, they're mandated 16 hour shifts, seven days a week because they got to take up the shift for the person that they just lost because there was no accountability on his end. So now they're taken away from their family. Now they're they got husbands, they got kids and they can't even be a part of their lives because they spending their whole life at the jail because they're so short staff. That's not fair to those that got families, husbands and wives and want to be at home with their families.

[00:26:33] Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that because I had a mother. She used to be a nurse for the prison staff. I think up in Jack, even Jacksonville or somewhere in I think even Jacksonville or Lee County or one of them counties up in North Florida. And I remember living with her and she told me she was tired and stressed out. And she said those inmates were kind of thirsty. So she definitely mentioned it. So I've definitely heard that. Shout out to my mom. She ain't doing that no more.

[00:27:03] Thank God. But, you know, they staff did the good staff get burnt out. They get tired. But the kindly act is I'm pushing for accountability. Start holding these officers accountable. Say you came to visit me and I was incarcerated and you smoke weed and you just forgot you had a bag of weed, little nickel bag of weed in your pocket. As soon as you come through that thing, guess what's going to happen? We're going to arrest you. We're going to call the police and we're going to send you to jail for that little nickel bag of weed.

[00:27:32] I don't care if you sit here and tell me I forgot it was in my pocket. I'm sorry. You're going to jail. You're going to have a charge. It's going to be a felony and you're not going to be able to come back into the prison system. So what the hell is the difference between you and the staff? Exactly. Why do they so fine, but you get a whole new case? Yeah, that is unfair to people who aren't on the staff or just coming to visit family.

[00:27:59] And I would definitely tell family, hey, leave that shit in your car or make sure you don't. Because I'm thinking in my head, I'm thinking. Look, you never know, you know? But that's right. I'm thinking the prison, they already have like dogs, sniffing animals. I think don't you get searched down before you walk, visit somebody in the prison. But my point behind that is see how severe they, how hard they are on you. What's the difference between you?

[00:28:26] You need to be harder on your staff who you hire to do a job than you are some innocent citizen that came in and forgot they had a nickel bag of weed and they popped it. You ready to get in five years, five years probation. And you get stabbed to come in and get caught with dope and they get to resign. And go work at a whole nother facility. Now, do you think race plays a factor into this or is this or it doesn't matter to race? It ain't race.

[00:28:56] It's all they behind. Black, white, Asian, African, Mexican. It's not a race thing. This is just an accountability thing. It's a penitentiary thing. It needs some bolder people that's willing to stand up and say what they mean and mean what they say. Take back control of their prisons. No inmates should be running no jail. But they don't have no choice but to let the inmates run the jail. I'm going to tell you why.

[00:29:24] Because so many of them stabbed and did so much stuff that they be scared they're going to lose their job. I be telling staff, they going to tell on you. I'm going to tell on you. They going to tell on you and so am I. Well, as soon as you get out, I tell them don't pass nothing. Not even a piece of gum. Don't give them nothing. You're not the inmates friend. They ain't your friends. I was an inmate. I speak from both sides. I wasn't your friend. As soon as you did something to piss somebody off, they going to do what?

[00:29:51] They going to put you up under the bus before they let you put them up under the bus. That is a fact. That is definitely a fact. They are definitely going to rat you out before they rat them out. So, because do you think there's a problem just in America? Because I see in other countries that they don't play that shit. America done lost their mind. They done lost their mind. Because you're right. It's a lot of sales out of country. They ain't going for that. They're not going for it. But there's accountability.

[00:30:21] They hold their staff accountable to the fullest extent. And this is why their officers think before they do stuff. My passion is to become a correctional officer, new hire trainer. I want to train y'all. I want y'all to know that if you take this position and you get caught, I'm going to install fear in them. They need some fear. They need to know that you want to mess around with an inmate, you'll be going to jail. You'll be charged with aggravated criminal sexual assault. You're going to have to register as a sex offender.

[00:30:49] Which means if you've got children, you're not going to be able to take them to the park. You're not going to be able to do this. You've got to install that fear in them. Stop patting them on their hand and letting them resign. Leave this prison and go to the next. To do the same thing that they was doing there. That's a fact. And at what point do you think this has changed? When people start taking accountability, what do you think has to happen for people to start taking accountability?

[00:31:13] Do you think something's going to have to happen to their dollars or what do you think is going to have to happen for these people to start taking accountability? You don't see what's going on now. A lot of lawsuits are being filed where inmates are messing with officers. I mean, officers are messing with inmates. And now that there's money involved, a lot of inmates are coming forth. When I was complaining about the sex offenders that I encountered, nobody listened to me. When I was sexually assaulted, nobody cared.

[00:31:43] This was in the early 2000s. I wrote my book in 2015. It talks about my sexual abuse in the penal system. Didn't nobody care about my case. Didn't nobody care about nothing I had to say. Now, 20 years later, you got people... Girl, I mean, boy, I'm talking about... It's bad. It's bad. Everybody's... Now they tell them on everybody. They getting involved with them and telling them. Meal ticket. The meal ticket? Wow.

[00:32:13] That's crazy. Yeah. But taxpayers are going to keep losing money if you don't start holding these officers accountable. Can't no hint to it. So rather you trying to use the defense, well, she wanted it. How can somebody want something? This is your job. If they could... If they wanted it, was not an issue. You know how many inmates would be pregnant? It's bad.

[00:32:43] How much sex would be pregnant? I know a lot of words. And it happens all the time, too. It does. Inmates get pregnant by staff all the time. But I'm just saying. That's... It would be more rare and more common if it was just... You could work here and go and sleep with the inmates. That's not no penitentiary. That's a hoe house. Yeah. That's what it sounds like. A damn hoe house that, you know... Yes. Yes. That's exactly what it sounds like. That doesn't sound like prison reform.

[00:33:13] That doesn't sound like creating an environment to where somebody can actually get the education or utilize the amazing programs that they have in the penitentiary so they can better themselves out. And I tell people... When I had an officer, when that young man died at the prison that I worked at, the two died. He said they were sex offenders anyway. I said, well, first of all, regardless of what they was before they came in here, you don't have no right to talk about them like that. Now, my whole thing is some people be guilty and some people don't.

[00:33:42] So whether they were pedophiles or not, that was somebody's family. And then my whole thing is when it comes to that, they get offended. But then I also have to remind people, our kids do a lot of dumb shit. Everybody's kids do some dumb stuff. My son went to prison. Your son might mess around one day and go to prison. And mind you, if they don't start straightening up their system, your son going to be subject

[00:34:09] to the same bull crap that's going on today or whenever he... Like, Lord willing that he don't. But I'm just saying, hypothetically, we all got loved ones that do dumb stuff and they go to jail. You might... Yes, they do. As a correctional officer, I've seen it happen a lot. Now, what you think going to happen when you go to jail? You better believe you might get killed. Them inmates might kill you. Exactly. Exactly. They need to try to take back over the prison system.

[00:34:38] Even if you got to lock them down all 24 hours a day. Do what you got to do until you regain control. Give people a chance to better themselves and get out and be productive citizens. Because it might be your neighbor. Might be somebody that ended up with your daughter or your son. Been to prison, didn't get the rehabilitation they need. You wonder why he clonking on her. He went to jail and had anger management issues. He could have gotten anger management class and did something to better himself.

[00:35:07] But no, he spent all his time hustling for the staff. Yes. Yes, that is so true. Now, on a personal note, has your son came home from jail yet? Or when is he set to get out? My son came home. And after I got in his behind while he was in there, he is doing amazing. He just started his own trucking business. He recently got married. Got a baby on the way. And I'm super proud of him. Yes. That is wonderful. That is wonderful news.

[00:35:36] I'm glad to hear that your son got in there and rehabilitated and he done started his business. And I hope now, have you thought about having him on the road with you to speak at different places? Or is that something he's not that passionate about? He ain't passionate about it. The only person that I really would love to have speak with me is the young man I was telling you about, Dedrick. He is, he's the true, authentic version of reform.

[00:36:03] When I tell you this young man went in there with the mindset that he was going to do, it was rocky because he went in when he was like 15, when he was young. But maybe after a couple of years down the line, some older people cuffed him and he's still in contact with them today. They just had a meeting in Chicago where they all just hung out and kicked it. Some older people took him in because he's only 33 right now. But he, he, when I tell you he's a full-time student doing welding, he's a full, he got a full-time job. He worked 16 hours of shifts.

[00:36:32] He worked seven days a week on the weekends. He does security. Like you can't pay him. When I tell you, when he lost his job, he started his own business, shoveling snow, cutting grass. He didn't care. He has it in his mindset that that's not where he wants to spend the rest of his life. So regardless of what he has to do to better himself, that's what he's doing. And I'm proud of him, very proud of him. Now, why do you feel like we don't hear more of those stories?

[00:36:59] Because instead it's just people going back and being career criminals. They don't get nothing. They don't get nothing from being in jail. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you would think being in jail should scare you for, to want to do right and to have your freedoms. But apparently it doesn't. No. If you've been going to jail, like I said, do the same thing in prison. You're doing the world. You're having sex.

[00:37:28] You're on the cell phone all day long. You making money. What have you learned? Of course. Of course. You haven't learned nothing. No. So personally, so what does pain in the purpose mean to you? Because I know, because I know for me, like finding that purpose after some pain, it's just, it gives you a reason to keep going. So, well, my story is a little unique because, you know, I went from being an inmate to being a correctional officer.

[00:37:57] I went from being felony free. I went from being an addict to being an addiction counselor. I went from being homeless to being a homeless shelter advocate, a woman of sexual abuse and domestic violence. Now I'm a case advocate for women of sexual abuse and domestic violence. So it seems to me like God keeps using all my pain for a purpose because I seem to do nothing but connect and end up dealing with people who are in the shoes who are either walking in or have been in the shoes that I came out of.

[00:38:27] So I use my life naked because, see, some people are so scared to talk about the true them, where they've been, what they've done, and how they've been. They're scared to. So I try to be a voice for the boicesters because there's a lot of people going through the same things that I don't went through. They just walk in shame and they walk in guilt. I ain't got no shame. I ain't got no guilt. You're going to get the raw, real racial. That's it. And that's all. I can't give you nothing but the truth. Of course, of course.

[00:38:56] Can't get no healing from the lies. You right about that. And I feel like more people need to just own their truth and live in it because you can overcome some bad things. As long as you got life in your body, you can overcome it. But not enough people hear that, you know, and it annoys me. Mm-mm, honey. I walk in my truth daily with my head held high like I am a queen, like I am the queen that I am.

[00:39:25] Can't nobody take. See, before you could tell me about my past, I done already told you. I tell them, read my book. You are not who they say you are unless you continue to do the same stuff that you did. And I don't do that. Of course. And you are living in this testament that people can change with dedication. Yes. It's work, but it's worth it.

[00:39:52] So you believe the experience, your experiences have made people stronger leaders and advocates and leaders. So why can't people just tap into being the strong leaders and advocates that their experiences have made them into being? Got to learn your identity first. Mm-hmm. It's all about your identity, your true identity. Not who they say you are, not who they feel like you should be. You got to be true to yourself.

[00:40:17] You definitely should definitely be true to yourself. So tell me this, why do people deserve a second chance? Because I see a lot of people who, as soon as I've known company owners and business owners, who all say as soon as they see somebody as an inmate or they run the background, they realize that they were in jail. They're not trying to give them a second chance. So why do people should get second chances?

[00:40:43] Because I see a lot, especially a lot of people with our skin color, you know, a lot of them can't get second chances because they were incarcerated. Do you really want me to answer that? Truthfully? Hey, this is what we could, this is, yeah, we can have that talk. First of all, they don't care about it now because mind you, our president got 34 felony convictions.

[00:41:08] Yes, that motherfucker do have 34 felonies on them right now. And he out here trying to give money to the people who was riding on January 6th. I'm like, you son of a bitch. If you go to a job interview and they actually do, you got a felony, tell them that President Trump got 34. So your next question. Oh, that is good. That is so good.

[00:41:34] If he can run the crash, if he can run the world with 34 felony convictions, you mean to tell me my little conviction going to stop me from getting a house or getting a job? I'm confused. Make that make sense for real. You really can't make that make sense. And the way it is, you just can't. For felony convictions.

[00:42:05] That's horrible. He can be the average criminal. Yeah. It sounds like he, and you know what? Now I understand why he's, he's being a bitch to Israel because he don't want his name to come out of them Epstein files. I'm like, bro, the fuck you think is going to happen when your ass leave office? Better believe them files coming out. Oh man, I cannot. I swear. Everybody can be like, why do you say? I'm telling the truth. That man got 34 felony convictions.

[00:42:35] Y'all shouldn't be asking nobody. Do they got anything on they record? Thank you. Nothing at all. Period. Yes. Nothing at all because we got a damn president in office right now who, who has all these felonies, but you know. He's got no felonies than the average criminal. I swear you do. I say he done got the world record.

[00:43:02] Meanwhile, he up here sitting in office telling all these states to redraw the maps and shit. That's going to be another episode. Yes. That is going to be an episode that I'm going to deal with. Now, I have a buddy who handles politics. When I get him on, I'm going to have him deal with that. But so talk to me about the sexual abuse because I know what happens.

[00:43:27] And why did it take so long for it to come out that these people were getting sexually abused? And because, and just because they were in prison, that doesn't make it right. No, what it is is because mind you, a lot of people are scared to say something because of the retaliation. When I said something, I got retaliated against. I was living on the unit where they keep your, you can keep your kids. They took me off the unit. They canceled my visits. They would do a lot of stuff. And a lot of people don't want to go through that mentally.

[00:43:57] That's, that's torment too. Can you imagine already? You're already in the prison system. You've already been sexually assaulted by a correctional officer. They had an officer killed two of their other officers. So you got to understand it. It's, it's, it's a lot that goes on. And a lot of people, they just, they, they be scared. Yes. Yes. A lot of people definitely be scared. Um, so talk to me about your, um, the series of books you've written. Um, which one do you recommend people to start with?

[00:44:27] Uh, what's Satan meant for evil? God meant for good. It's on amazon.com. Kindle eBooks. And that's the one people should start with. Yes. Um, I definitely, I definitely have a book coming out. Uh, rise. Um, I'm still getting the name together. I do have a website. I want to encourage people to go to my website and check me out. Um, but I have a new book coming out. It's, it's really good.

[00:44:57] It's, it's see that the book that I wrote was Satan for evil. God meant for good. It goes from my childhood trauma from foster care to when I first went into the penal system. So I hadn't went through a lot of the stuff that I went through down the line. I wrote the book in 2013. I actually, yes, I did. I went through, I wrote the book in 2013 and it got published in 2015. 2015. But here's the, the, the part two of, of miss kindly will be out. We're going to be out next month in June. My. Okay. Wow.

[00:45:28] Wow. That's amazing. You got the album and stuff now on a personal note. I know we just had mother's day this past month, this past May. Were you able to forgive your mother for giving you up like that? Man, I love my mama to death. I talk to her every day. That is my, I just wrote a song to her and she loved it. She called me there and said, Ray, I love that. First of all, it takes, have a, me personally. I ain't had no choice but to forgive my mama. Mind you, all the dumb stuff I did running in and out of jail.

[00:45:58] Do you know what I'm talking about? I wasn't there for my kids like I should have been or could have been. Parenting don't come with instructions. And I always tell people you have to forgive in order to be forgiven. If I would have held that against her head, I had a son that was adopted. When he found me, he would have hated me because you reap what you sow. But I loved her through her, through the whole journey. And when he met me finally in 2023, my baby, he, you can't even tell he was gone. He loved his mama to death. He check on me. He show up. He take my baby, love his mama.

[00:46:27] And that's because I love my mama in spite of her trials and tribulations that she went through. I learned my mama ended up being in foster care. And she was raised by an aunt who I thought was my grandma because her mom dropped her off. It was just repeated generational curses that needed to be broke. So how do we break these generational curses? Because I see a lot of it as well. And personally, I don't have any kids. And I always tell myself I would hate to be the kind of, I already know I'm not going to be the kind of father I had.

[00:46:57] I'm certainly not going to make the same mistakes my mom made. So how do we break these generational curses? Because I do see a lot of people who are millennials. I see them repeating some of the same things that the previous generation did. It's just a lot of us need to get into our purpose. A lot of people need to get into their purpose. You know, you can't. If you're so scared to tell your kids where you've been, what you've done, and how you overcame, they'll never know. Like, I never knew my mom's story. I never knew she did.

[00:47:27] Did she get drugs or my dad was a drug addict? I didn't know this stuff. Had they told me? My kids, they know I used to use drugs. You can't pay them to use no drugs. They'll tell you to this day. No, man, I know my mama did this stuff. I'm not going. Like, no. And don't none of them do drugs. Might smoke weed. But as far as drugs, they're not going. No, they won't do it. Because they know the effect that it had on their mama.

[00:47:54] They know that it made mama be absent sometimes in their lives. They want to be present parents. They have children. So when we're open and honest with our children and we're being downright, you know, keeping it 100 with them, then that gives them the opportunity to decide what it is that they want to do for themselves. And more than likely, they're going to make the best decision. But we just got to start keeping it real with these kids. Quit sugarcoating stuff.

[00:48:25] Yes, we do. Some of y'all got mothers. You got some people who mama was on drugs. Daddy was on drugs. And I would tell if I had two siblings that was on, I would tell them, look, your mama was an addict. Your daddy was an addict. You mess around. Pop them pills if you want to. You won't be a real addict. That's a fact. Yes, that is a fact. Because them pills are something serious.

[00:48:53] You got to tell them about your struggles and stuff.

[00:49:17] That will make them respect you a lot more because I know people get a lot more respect if you can be honest and vulnerable with them about their struggles. But not a lot of people are scared to do that. My kids love me to death. You can't. One thing about them, you can't tell. Can't nobody say nothing about their mama because they're going to cuss you out. Period. They don't care about their mama. My kids are very respectful, though. And I don't have those issues because by the grace of God, when I was growing up, I didn't have no enemies.

[00:49:47] Because I was a people pleaser. So I used to give people everything. I was a giver. I've always been like that my whole life. I just love helping people. I've always been that type of person. And luckily, because of that, I've sown a lot of good seeds in a lot of people's lives. So then when I had my boy, I had five sons. And I had one that was in the streets real heavy. But when people found out that that was my son, they was like, that's Rachel's son? Oh, leave him alone. Like, no. I'll fool with his mama. You know what I'm saying? Even when he was doing too much stuff.

[00:50:13] Luckily, the respect that was on my name, it carried weight to where, you know, God had his hand on my babies. But yeah, we just got to be honored with these kids. Stop lying and sugarcoating and making them think that, you know, this ain't that when you know this is just that. That's real. That's so real. So what is something you want to tell to people who are in prison right now, who are looking at time and they might not be getting out for the foreseeable future?

[00:50:41] If you're in prison and you are up under the sound of my voice, first of all, I don't care if they did give you life. They don't have the system, don't have the last say so. So what I've seen, what I've seen in the past, I've seen a lot of people that's been on death row come off death row. So I want to encourage people to do what you got to better yourself while you are in there. Don't go in there with the mindset that you got life because they told you that.

[00:51:09] They don't have the final say so on when you're going to get released. Your higher power does. Whoever you choose to call, mine is God. I got the last say so on that. So you mess around and wait till the last minute if you want to and that door opened up for you and you come out with nothing, then you're probably going to go back. You're going to blow the opportunity that you had to be something successful when you got out.

[00:51:33] So if you are up under the sound of my voice and you are incarcerated, because I know y'all be on podcast, y'all be on TikTok, Instagram, social media site. There is doing what you got to do to better yourself. Start rehabilitation yourself. Use all those. Utilize every program that they got in there because, you know, when you get out, you're not going to do it. Get your GED while you're in there because when you get out, you're not going to do it.

[00:51:56] Get everything that you need up under your belt so when you come out and that door opens up for you, you can do something with yourself. Because if not, rather than opportunity open or not, you're going back. Yes, I hope they do because, unfortunately, America, they don't really care about you like that. They have the resources, but they won't tell you that they have the resources. It's just up to you to find them. So I hope that you all find those resources.

[00:52:23] And also, I hope you find the prison guard, prison officers who are like Ms. Rochelle here, you know, who are going to hold you accountable. But I hope, shout out to ones that do, to the ones that don't, I hope you all find another job or another line of work. Yeah, I tell you, I just did a video on that. I said if you go on to work for the Department of Corrections trying to find a husband or a wife, find another career. If you're going into the penal system and just for the money, find another career. If you're not going to be an asset to a company, it means you're going to be a liability.

[00:52:53] Find another career. Find something that you like. You ain't just messing up your life. You're messing up other people's lives. Watch, these people got kids. These people got families that want to see them come home better than they did when they went in there. Yes, of course. Now, what's something you want to tell the young kids that are out here running the streets? You know, the YNs that be trying to be doing these team takers because I need or trying to be running the streets and stuff.

[00:53:20] And I'm like, you young kids need to sit your little asses down or something. Go get an education or find something to do. But what do you want to tell them? Because I ain't never been to prison, but I know you got something to tell the young kids, these YNs like they say, you know? Yeah, baby. This is what I tell all the little young YNs. Quit letting your friends send you off. Some of you are allowing people to send y'all off.

[00:53:50] If a person got beef with somebody and it ain't your problem, they need to handle that. Quit letting people come get you to do their dirty work. Because when you go to jail, trust and believe they're not going to be there. They might stick by you while you are in the county jail. But when you get to prison and they send you to them 30, 40, 50 years, they're not going to be there. Hold yourself accountable for your own mess. Do not let your homies cost you your life.

[00:54:20] So many of y'all are listening to people wanting to be a part of it. I'm going to encourage you to start making your own decisions because your life is in your own hands. You let somebody send you off if you want to. I know some of y'all young YNs, they call shooter. You better think twice because not only is that person's family losing their loved one, now your mama done lost her son to some stuff that possibly probably could have been avoided.

[00:54:49] Especially if it didn't even have nothing to do with you. Yes, that is so true because I've seen so many young men go to jail while they're young. And I've seen how the penal system is looking at you. They're looking at you like, yeah, we got some prison labor. They're looking at you like you're a damn slave. They're not thinking about trying to help you better yourself. Close the day. And it's so funny because some of these people get out of jail. This is what blow me about people that get out of prison when they ain't did nothing to better their stuff while they're in there.

[00:55:19] So they got to come out and get a job because they didn't do the educational thing that they need to do so they can start their own business. I'm not working for no $10 an hour. If your ass was working for $1 or $0.30 a day in the penitentiary, make that make sense. Damn, $0.30 a day? Shit. $0.30. Maybe you get $1.30 a month. So if you can work for $30 a month for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, how many other years you've been in there,

[00:55:46] I'm going to need you to come out here and work for them little $10 until you can do better. Yes, I definitely agree with that. Y'all need to just sit down, figure it out, get your education while you're working or something. Just figure it out until you can do better because $10 is better. Right. But my goodness, that is crazy.

[00:56:14] Rochelle, I want to thank you for blessing the Liquor Talk with your presence. This was a conversation that definitely needed to be had. And where can the people find you if they want to reach out to you? You can reach me at www.payingintopurpose.com. That's P-A-I-N, another N, number 2, P-U-R-P-O-S-E, at gmail.org. Excuse me.

[00:56:44] It's payingintopurpose.org. Or I'm on Facebook, Rochelle Conley. Email rochelleconley8 at gmail.com. Healingbehindbars at gmail.com. Reach out to your girl. I'd love to hear from you. Yes, you do. You do. Got to reach out to Rochelle if y'all need help, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for blessing the Liquor Talk with your presence. And thank you to everybody that's tuned in to the Liquor Talk and tuned in, y'all.

[00:57:14] I hope y'all had y'all a nice margarita or whatever you like to drink on this episode. But until the next episode, stay up, stay prayed up, stay blessed up. Keep fighting. Keep fighting the good fight. And we out this thing, y'all. Peace.