[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of a moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time. I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast. If you like what you're hearing, that need you to do a few things. First, I need subscribers.
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[00:01:01] because it is time to make this moment a movement. Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well. Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming. And today I've got some guests on.
[00:01:45] It's going to try to talk to you about being your better self and in politics, people always kind of criticize the folks that jump out here and run for office. And so I really think it's important for people who are considering running or being involved in politics
[00:02:16] that they are there best self. And especially from an emotional mental sample. So these guests have written books and I wanted them to come on and share those concepts, especially in a political context. Because we did be honest, politicians are human beings.
[00:02:49] I know some of you don't think that, but we are. We're human beings. I hope you enjoy those guests. And I hope you enjoyed the Republican National Convention. Very entertaining, you know, former President Trump said a record for the longest acceptance speech in the history of American politics.
[00:03:16] I think he talked literally for an hour and a half. And y'all say, I talk a lot. He talked at least I have a break. He talked straight for an hour and 30 minutes at least in accepting the nomination to run for the third time, by the way,
[00:03:34] to run for President United States. And I got to hear Senator Vance accept his nomination as the Vice Presidential candidate under Republican side.
[00:03:47] So while the Republicans were doing that, the Democrats are trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and dealing with their nominee or so we thought in President Biden.
[00:04:06] And the old phrase that history is prologue is really, really coming to the fore as we are approaching a Democratic convention in Chicago.
[00:04:20] It looks like the sitting Democratic president may not be on the ballot when the convention happens, which by the way, I still need y'all help to get there.
[00:04:35] But I'll make that pitch near the end. Anyway, let's go ahead and kick this show off and you know how we do it. He started off with a moment of news. We're great. Thanks, Eric. President Biden tested positive for COVID-19 with mild symptoms while campaigning in Las Vegas.
[00:05:03] Donald Trump officially accepted his party's nomination at the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee days after surviving an assassination attempt in Pennsylvania. Trump selected Ohio U.S. Senator J.D. Vance as his vice presidential running mate.
[00:05:19] Vice President Kamala Harris invited Senator Vance to join an August 13th debate hosted by CBS following his selection. President Biden condemned political violence after the assassination attempt on Trump, stating that such violence is unacceptable.
[00:05:37] U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon dismissed a criminal case against Donald Trump regarding his retention of classified documents. A New York federal jury found New Jersey U.S. Senator Bob Menendez guilty on 16 felony counts, including bribery at his corruption trial.
[00:05:54] At least three U.S. House Democrats are protesting a fast track plan to hold a July 21 virtual roll call vote on President Biden's nomination. Major Democratic donors have withheld $90 million in fledged donations to a pro-Bite in super PAC due to concerns about President Biden's candidacy.
[00:06:16] A federal appeals court rejected a constitutional challenge to Tennessee's policy preventing transgender individuals from amending their birth certificates. The U.S. Senate's top election officials rejected petitions for an abortion rights measure to appear on the November ballot due to missing paperwork.
[00:06:35] A federal appeals court allowed the U.S. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to proceed with its redlining case against a non-bank mortgage lender. A federal reserve chair Jerome Powell confirmed his plans to complete his term, which ends in 2026.
[00:06:52] And the price of first class U.S. mail stamps has increased to 73 cents as part of a broader 7.8% increase in mailing services products. I am Grace J. and this has been a moment of news. All right, thank you Grace for that moment of news.
[00:07:21] And now it is time for my first guest, Farah Harris. Farah Harris is a psychotherapist and a workplace belonging and well-being expert dedicated to disrupting unhealthy work environments.
[00:07:37] She is the founder and CEO of Working Well Daily, a company that approaches workplace belonging and well-being from a psychosocial and emotional intelligence lens. Farah has helped individuals in Fortune 500 companies develop healthy workplaces where employees want to stay and thrive,
[00:07:57] because their leaders and teams have grown an empathy, self-awareness, social awareness, and cultural awareness. There's a mental health practitioner and consultant. Farah is aware of the intersectionality between well-being, equity and inclusion. She is a sought-after expert on mental health, psychological safety, workplace culture and emotional intelligence.
[00:08:23] The work has been featured in media and podcasts platforms such as Forbes, fast company, business and cider, Harvard Business Review, Huffington Post, Essence, Good Morning America, Martha Stewart, Thrive Global and Therapy for Black Girls.
[00:08:40] Farah is also the author of the International Best Selling Book, the color of emotional intelligence, elevating ourselves and social awareness to address inequities, a groundbreaking exploration about cultural background and identity influence. An identity that's used me influence our emotional intelligence and shape our relationships with others.
[00:09:05] Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast Farah Paris. How are you doing, sister? You doing good? I am doing well. Thank you so much. How are you?
[00:09:35] I'm doing fine. I know that you're up in the Chicago area, right? Yes, sir. Yes. I know that mother nature kind of showed out a little bit up there. So I'm glad you were able to connect. So we're going to see how this works.
[00:09:59] I'm going to be up there for the convention. So, of course, come to shove maybe we can connect up there as well. But let's go ahead and get to start it.
[00:10:12] So what I like to do with my guests is throw a quote at them first, kind of like an iceberger and then go from there. So your quote is between stimulus and response their space. In that space lies our freedom and power to choose our response.
[00:10:34] In our response lies growth and freedom. What does that quote mean? Oh, the power of the pause. The power of the pause. Yes. That is the opportunity to either choose wisdom to respond well or to choose folly and react and deal with the consequences there.
[00:11:05] In a recent LinkedIn post you started by writing. You started it by writing. Many fall into the trap of having toxic positivity. Suppressing their feelings, disassociating or judging their emotions. Explain in detail the concept of toxic positivity.
[00:11:30] Yeah, I've had to explain this several times to those who especially leaders who want to inspire and motivate their team. So they're always talking about look at the silver lining and we can do this and there's nothing wrong with having that go get them attitude.
[00:11:49] But if we're not careful it can rob us of the natural human experience of grief or disappointment. And so when we feel like someone's kind of almost rushing through our pain or our frustration or dismissing them, it can actually cause us to not feel safe with them.
[00:12:11] Not feel safe expressing our emotions. Not feel safe feeling whatever it is that we're feeling. So toxic positivity does not leave space for real feelings. It's it's not necessarily solution focus, which is what we want, especially having emotional intelligence you want to be able to go.
[00:12:30] Well, what will be the end result? But in that thinking about what the end result is you still or desire that you would want it to be you're still acknowledging the frustration, the disappointment, maybe even the anger.
[00:12:46] So, the toxic positivity often ignores those emotions, pushes past those emotions or dismiss them.
[00:12:54] It reminds me actually of a client that I had years ago her whole disson was murdered and she tried to kind of over spiritualize in a way use the toxic positivity like, well you know the Lord gives and he takes away and it's going to be okay.
[00:13:14] I just didn't want to lose my witness and I said okay, but did you make time to grieve? And she said, you know, I agree. Just a no no no like to really sit in the sorrow of what happened to your son.
[00:13:29] And I think I was the only person that gave her room to actually feel maybe even the anger that she had towards God, the disappointment.
[00:13:40] And she went every session for like six sessions, even my my what you call it my receptionist was like, what are you doing in there?
[00:13:51] She comes in and the first thing I hear is her just waping and wailing. I'm like this is 20 years of like closed up locked up grief because she thought she had to, I guess, present the Lord well to everybody else by making it seem like all was okay.
[00:14:09] And it's like no no no no not on this side of glory. We're going to deal with pain. We're going to deal with loss and so that's the the negative side of that toxic positivity. It just doesn't allow you to feel the whole human experience of all the emotions that we have.
[00:14:26] So you wrote this book called the color of emotional intelligence. Elevating our self and social awareness to address inequities. Why did you feel the need to write this book at this time? That's a great question Eric's. I did not want to write the books.
[00:14:47] It was like as I was writing I was like the world don't need this. This is too hard. This is frustrating. As a mom with three young children in Mary and running a business I was like, who has time to write a book?
[00:15:00] But to be honest with you it was I say what's in a labor of love but an active obedience because at that time this was post 2020.
[00:15:13] I want to say just a few months after George Floyd's murder an organization had come to me to come speak to their black employees and kind of have like a healing circle and I'm using quotation marks.
[00:15:28] And I had asked who had come to speak to their people before they had other speakers, other therapists and I said what would be different.
[00:15:36] You know what what other resource what benefit what impact can I make because I don't want to just give them another mental health well being self care presentation.
[00:15:47] And this organization at that time obviously nothing we were doing was in person and so they're losing a lot of revenue.
[00:15:55] And I knew that there were about to be some layoffs or some furlowing that was going to to be going on and I said has anybody talked to your organization about emotional intelligence and specifically to your black employees about how they use their EQ, their emotional intelligence differently.
[00:16:13] That there have elevated level of social awareness because since we were children we've learned how to read the room we've learned what is okay, what's not okay how my Swiss to talk how my Swiss to act is and my could be accepted.
[00:16:28] I actually almost disappears to not be threatening you know those types of things and how that's impacting them at work.
[00:16:35] And she was like oh no no one's ever talked to them about that and as I was telling her I don't want to say I was making it up on the fly but.
[00:16:43] You know I was like I was saying that's it. Yeah that actually sounds like something I want to dig into and I was saying we should do this not just for your black employees but have you know.
[00:16:56] And all of other races and genders and and just everybody on deck because what is the point of providing them this understanding of how they're showing up with understanding more about what codes which in masking is.
[00:17:11] And then the people and the environment or the culture that creates them.
[00:17:18] Showing up in this manner are unaware and she's like no no I just want this to be just for the black employees and sure enough on that zoom call people in the comments like man I really wish my right counterparts were here.
[00:17:31] I think they think okay there's something here and it became one of my most sought after talks in 2021 and it became pun intended more colorful so wasn't just the black experience it was when you're woman and you walk into a room that's predominately how do you show up how do you react if you're a neurodivergent if you have some type of disability.
[00:17:54] And so we're part of the LGBTQ community. Every one of those communities recognize what it's like to either code switch or mask and it is creating work environments where people aren't really able to show up because they're not able to be them their full selves.
[00:18:10] I think it's hilarious that they keep talking about bring your authentic self to the workplace and I'm like where do they do that at. Because even amongst yourselves and your right brotherhood and sisterhood there isn't always that safety.
[00:18:27] To be yourself so even more so imagine what that is like to be a person who's part of a historically marginalized community so that's why it's like my guess looks to come out.
[00:18:40] Well and you know first of all I want to commend you for the discipline to have a good idea and then actually write me down right because I have I do that you know it's like oh this is pretty cool and then I don't write it down and now it's like what was I thinking the other day.
[00:18:55] So I'm glad you did that and then the other thing when you when you said the phrase read the room right because you know I had the distinction to be in the state legislate.
[00:19:07] And I was supposed to represent a constituency my constituency when I first got in was like 85% black right.
[00:19:14] So if I came in as my authentic self and you know it was that the it would have been just total I don't know what they would have done to me. All I know is that me being creative to present a black agenda in that body.
[00:19:40] You know I think that's something that a lot of black people have to do when you're saying okay we'll be authentic.
[00:19:47] We tend to be more creative we there's a lot of people they don't necessarily coach which but it's like how can I tone this down or how can I make it.
[00:19:56] So relatable real quick I remember we were trying to pass a lot of mandate seat belts that everybody wear seat belts.
[00:20:06] And one of my colleagues came to me and said Eric the way you presented that you may wife folks feel like they were saving black people by voting for this bit. So I definitely understand about reading room and and you know trying to navigate those kind of things.
[00:20:26] You broke up the book in three parts the emotional intelligence black and white emotional intelligence in color and for allies but you separated it said for all empirically die yes.
[00:20:44] What is the significance of these three parts I guess the essence of my question is why did you feel you had to break it down in such a way, especially for the last part for that. That's a good question so.
[00:21:01] It actually goes back to the beginning so when I created the presentation it was broken down in those three parts I didn't label it that way but it was kind of how can I explain to you.
[00:21:16] How historically marginalized use emotional intelligence differently if you don't even understand what emotional intelligence is so I would start off the presentation just giving a breakdown high level overview of what EQ was and then once I was like okay now that you understand the domains now that you understand you know neurologically the neuroscience of you know.
[00:21:41] How our brain works as we're processing emotions now that you get that.
[00:21:46] Let's shift over to how certain groups are using that knowledge in a unique way and then it bled into okay but why why do people even have to show up in this manner why do people have to coes which or feel that they have to coes which for survival.
[00:22:04] It's because they're in spaces that you know we now have this new terms psychological safety that's becoming more popular but it is that they don't feel like they belong they don't think that they're safe so what could we all do as.
[00:22:19] I call it being good stewards of humanity versus allies how can we all show up better so that I don't have to have Eric feel like he has to.
[00:22:29] You know, men's his words or or enable a community or conversation to a certain group he can just be himself and so that was kind of an essence the 90 minute talk so we would spend it the intro understanding what an EQ was then being able to quote unquote add more color to it and was like okay now thinking what it's like to be a woman think about what of it what it's like to be a person.
[00:22:57] You know, of a different religion you know I'm just thinking about Ramadan that passes in the workplace the common religions and not religion that's on the word I'm looking for.
[00:23:10] The common holidays that we celebrate are typically Easter Christmas and we're not even thinking about all the different religions that are within our organization being represented by people and how it could impact how they work so you know you see here trying to schedule lunch meetings during the time to someone's fasting.
[00:23:29] It's like okay this puts me in a precarious position so I really wanted people not just to see themselves which is beautiful when I get the feedback was like oh you gave language to what I was experiencing you know as a black woman or as a person with newer divergence.
[00:23:47] But it's really cool to hear from people who have greater privilege that go you are really helping me read the room.
[00:23:56] You are really helping me to understand how I moving through spaces completely unaware and I say this at privilege as blind spots of what other people could be experiencing and that's why I had the last chat the last section because even my book coach was like
[00:24:14] I mean this book is getting kind of long like do you think that this should be like a separate book and I thought about it and I said no you know folks can read this and it was definitely during the time where a lot of D.I. books were coming out and I said people will want to read this if they intentionally pick up the book and I want to make sure that I write it in a way that it doesn't seem like it's this long book and I don't think it's that long I mean cast is a long book.
[00:24:45] And it's dense and I mean it's amazing but I'm glad that I'm moved forward with my instincts versus you know my writing coach who was like you know you want there to be an easy read people don't like to read nowadays.
[00:24:58] I don't know people don't like to read what they don't want to read but if you want to read a book you're going to read your book.
[00:25:03] Yeah and I think people are more inclined to read books not they might do it a different way now like electronically or listen to it.
[00:25:13] But books are still the important and that's what we're trying to tell people on the other side of political aisle but that's a whole not the discussion for another day.
[00:25:23] You state that practicing the three A's will help you build your emotional intelligence explain the three A's for the audience. Sure the three A's is the framework of emotional intelligence that I thought would.
[00:25:39] One be memorable you know so it's aware assess and address so you're aware of your emotions you know how they show up not just being able to name them but how they show up in your body so if you're listening in the audience you know think to yourself when you're angry what does your body do.
[00:25:56] Does it does it tense up you begin to sweat heart palpitations do you make a fist you know these types of things so once you able to build that self awareness.
[00:26:06] So it's not just being able to oh I feel sad or I feel upset more often your body will let you know how you feel before you can even name it so it's being able to practice that pause and be able to okay.
[00:26:19] My body saying this that must mean I'm feeling this once you're able to name the feeling then you assess it.
[00:26:26] Why do I feel this way what's coming up so I joke in the book and when I do my talks is that I am a walking snickers commercial a sister gets angry feed me please.
[00:26:39] I am not fed you get a different version of me and so having a moment of assessment is like if I'm being irritable for me I'm being short impatient with you know whoever I'm speaking with if it's my kids my husband who never.
[00:26:53] I have to go why my being like this oh it's because I'm missed a breakfast or you know it's time for lunch or whatever it is going on so now I can go.
[00:27:03] I feel this way because and now I have the opportunity to address the situation how do I want to address.
[00:27:10] The communication that I'm having with this person how do I want to address my attitude in this current situation I want to make sure that the action going forward is going to be productive so some of us.
[00:27:22] Can be aware of how we feel and we may even know how we feel and why we feel that way and but we choose to address the situation in a.
[00:27:29] Negative way you know I'm going to cost this person out or I'm going to ignore you are I'm going to withhold love what we want to do is hopefully address the situation.
[00:27:39] I'm going to be in a productive manner so for three days aware assess the dress what am I feeling why do I feel this way and how do I want to address the situation.
[00:27:49] Yeah you remind me about those lunch meetings my strategy of lunch meetings there's always the try to eat first before I said anything I could be listening to you whatever but I'm going to put some in my sister first it was a meeting that I was sharing I just.
[00:28:05] I could make it through to the end because I'm going to have to save my food if I'm the one that's doing the talking and whatever but yeah I definitely relate to all that because and it's good that we.
[00:28:17] Figure that out because a lot of times we just don't understand. Why did I react that way and and the biggest thing we always put on ourselves is matured right well if I was more mature I could handle that better you know or.
[00:28:33] I'm going to do that better but it's like you are who you are you are how you're made up and if you don't have a sense of what triggers you or what.
[00:28:43] Get you upset then it doesn't matter what level of maturity how do you are whatever it's still going to impact that part I mean there are definitely people who skip that middle part you know they they recognize how that I'm upset and then they just address the situation or are they act and it's like well you didn't take time to assess.
[00:29:02] You know and really go you know what I get triggered every time you know so would you just explain it was like I have a plan now that if I'm going to be somewhere I'm going to put something in my belly because I know that if I don't.
[00:29:16] That I may not be able to focus you know or my tone might be different so that is the practicing you know I say emotional intelligence is nothing that we ever achieve it's an opportunity for us to practice like patients you know go to the DMV you will definitely have an opportunity to.
[00:29:31] You know people like I want to have high IQ okay this morning how to do treat your kids how to talk to you know you're direct report these are all opportunities for us to practice the three days but we have to also go.
[00:29:48] Why do I always do this when you know and then we can find out at any time that we feel disrespected is when we we start popping off or when we feel like.
[00:29:58] Someone is not listening to us is how we shut down and so when you can get to the root of it then you can start making your plans and your strategy so that it doesn't cause you to create these negative reactions to it.
[00:30:13] So do you think that our inability to assess is our biggest barrier to emotional intelligence.
[00:30:23] Oh, Eric that's a good question. I don't think anybody has ever asked me that. Oh wow. Oh well as a therapist I would say yes just because most of what we do in therapy is not just talk about the feelings but at least in the in the way that I practice.
[00:30:46] So therapy is I do mix. The theories like cognitive behavioral theory but with narrative therapy because it doesn't make sense to break down your thinking and your behaviors if we don't go to the origin of why you think this way and why you behave this way.
[00:31:04] So the assessment part is the self auditing part is the understanding your your who and your why. You know we come from one of my favorite chapters in the book is chapter six the emotional narratives what are your stories around feelings how did you even learn about emotions.
[00:31:23] How did your family talk about them folks always say oh our family never talked about him like no they used they they talked about feelings they just didn't always use words you know you watched.
[00:31:33] You know them drinking their sorrow you watched them be sarcastic or physically violent because they didn't know how to process their their sadness or their anger.
[00:31:44] You watch when your mom withheld affection from you and then you go okay this is what I'm supposed to do or maybe you learn this is what I'm not supposed to do but when you can assess why you are people pleaser why you react to certain way more than likely comes from your family of origin.
[00:32:02] And how you first learned about you know feelings this is why we have a lot of toxic masculinity you know we told little boys to man up you know get over it you can't cry you can't show any tenderness and then we have grown men who want to be tender who want to show empathy who want to have a space to just.
[00:32:23] You know you feelings and we either and I feel like y'all can't get to break I mean we women go through our things too but as men it's either.
[00:32:32] It's viewed as weakness you know if you do express yourself or they may say that it's it's an effeminate type of thing or you get penalized for not showing empathy.
[00:32:43] And and tenderness and it was like oh you so hard you're you're you're so whatever I can't get to you especially this is a partner you know he's so cold you're so I stand off is and so it's like well where where cannot just feel but we've learned within our families and within society.
[00:33:00] Retail little boys you can't be tender and so why are we surprised that we have men who struggle with tenderness. Yeah yeah so this is getting personal so let me let me get back to this is a political show some of the.
[00:33:17] Do you think the way we handle American politics is a great example of what you caution against end of chapter walk to dog. The dogs are loose Eric. The dogs are running a month. For your listeners who don't understand the walk the dog analogy.
[00:33:44] I break down emotional intelligence as for those who are dog owners you will definitely get this but we've all seen people who were. The dog is like 10 feet ahead they're pulling and yanking at the leash and when I watched the dog whisperer.
[00:34:03] Season alone was training his clients and he said to properly walk your dog it can't walk in front because it will be it will believe it's the pack leader that it's in control.
[00:34:12] You can't walk behind you because it's it's passivity you can't see what the dogs doing you want the dog walking in lock stuff with you. And I don't know what it did to my neuro spicy brain but it was like oh next in connection connection.
[00:34:29] This is what's going on this is emotional intelligence this is what it is at its best. You don't want your fault feelings to walk ahead of you because you don't want your emotions to be in control.
[00:34:42] You also don't want your emotions to be behind you because that can have you show up as passive or passive aggressive in your.
[00:34:51] In your presentation and your behavior and your actions which you want to do is be able to recognize your emotions in real time so that you can see them you can name them.
[00:35:01] And this is the three days that I was talking about and you can be able to to manage your emotions a real time in the climate that we're in now.
[00:35:09] No one's walking their dog will all our dogs are are running we are very emotionally driven and it's it's out of control. Yeah our politics the whole concept of politics is that we're supposed to intellectually debate issues. And we we're so far from that a classic example.
[00:35:35] As I'm as we're recording this the Republicans have an national convention and there's a whole state delegation and now has bandages on it used right to line up with their candidate.
[00:35:52] That's emotional and I got none to do with what he's talking about as far as policy or anything like that is just strictly.
[00:36:02] You know, they I'm trying to connect with him and you know I don't know is just yeah yeah I agree with you that we're we're the dogs have gotten loose and that they're not.
[00:36:24] Eric this was wonderful thank you so much I just want to say that emotional intelligence again is not a zenith we don't always reach the final you know pinnacle it's an opportunity for us to practice every single day.
[00:36:52] Eric you have high emotional intelligence and something I just want to leave with your listeners is that. I remind her rather is that you can have a low emotional reaction just rebound with a high emotional response.
[00:37:11] I'm not a high EQ response rather and so oftentimes we will think that emotional intelligence.
[00:37:19] Means that you are always cool comic elected and that's not true and so having high EQ doesn't mean that you always get it right it just means that you write what you got wrong so.
[00:37:30] You can have a low EQ reaction just make sure you rebound with the high EQ response thank you again.
[00:37:37] Oh well thank you for coming on and I greatly appreciate you taking the time out and especially with all the technical challenges we've had ladies and gentlemen that was for our Harris.
[00:37:54] And the name of her book is the color of intelligence the emotional intelligence elevating ourselves and social awareness to address inequities. All right guys and we'll catch all on the other side.
[00:38:17] Hello this is Eric Flaming host of a moment with Eric Flaming and I need your help we have an opportunity to cover the democratic national convention in Chicago this August but I need to raise some money.
[00:38:30] So I need you to go to gofundme.com slash help a moment with Eric Flaming broadcast from DNC 2024 as gofundme.com help a moment with Eric Flaming broadcast from DNC 2024. Thank you so much.
[00:38:46] All right and we are back and so now it is time for my next set of guests right. So instead of having one of the guests I have to. Doctor Adara Landry excuse me and Dr. Risa Lewis.
[00:39:20] Adara Landry MDMED is an assistant professor of emergency medicine at the Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital and co-founder of writing in color.
[00:39:34] Risa E. Lewis MD is a professor of emergency medicine at the University of Alabama at Birmingham and creator and host of the visible voices podcast.
[00:39:46] Both of them have co-authored a book called Micro Skills Small Actions Big Impact and that's what we're going to be talking about today on the podcast. So it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as guests on this podcast. Doctor Adara Landry and Dr. Risa Lewis.
[00:40:21] All right, Dr. Adara Landry and Dr. Risa Lewis. How y'all ladies doing? I'll do it all right. We're doing great. So great to be here. Well, I'm honored to have y'all. It's very rare that I get a doctor on little-known two doctors on this political podcast.
[00:40:43] But y'all written a book that I think people that are engaged in politics and really in life in general but engaged in politics. They need to read this book too and the book is called Micro Skills.
[00:40:58] And how I like to start off the interview is I throw a quote at the guest and it's kind of an icebreaker. And so in the case sense, we have two guests. Either one can answer it or both of y'all can answer it.
[00:41:16] How every I want to do it. So the quote is the best strategies for success in the workplace are not so much taught as they are expected to be known. Worst still, there is a pervasive myth that some people have it and subundone. What is that quote me?
[00:41:40] We wrote this book because when we were early career professionals, we felt that our peers, some of our peers, seem to have this playbook that had a bunch of strategies within it, secrets to success within it.
[00:41:56] And they were able to move their careers much faster than we were able to. And so we wanted to write a book that really spoke to, actually we all can gain access to the strategies and the skills if we're just told how to do it.
[00:42:13] And in the book, we really talk about, you know, it's not just like can you give a lecture, can you use Microsoft Excel? It's also how do you communicate with others? How do you navigate conflict? How do you become a subject matter expert?
[00:42:27] All of these skills, many of us probably think people just have it and they're just naturally gifted when in truth they have been taught. They have perfected a lot of what we call micro skills to get there.
[00:42:41] Moreover, in Eric I want to use the word, more over right there. We love this quote that you shared because it really is where we start. We start from a place of trying to make no assumptions about the reader.
[00:42:53] We get that number one times a currency. It can only be spent. You cannot put it into a savings account so we want people to be intentional about how they use their time with whom they spend their time.
[00:43:04] Next, the world is not equal. We all enter school, the workplace from different places and a lot of books in this category of business self-help don't acknowledge that.
[00:43:17] Recognize that and teach to that and we really try to teach to that and finally learning is limitless if only it is accessible. So we try to create a book with content that's accessible no matter where you're starting with the hope that these micro skills level set.
[00:43:33] So we may not have the same place of the starting line, but we all end at the same finish line. So Dr. Lewis you basically took my last question and answered it already in a sense because that's how you conclude the book and talk about those three truths.
[00:43:51] Why is it important overall to have that basic understanding on those three truths? Feel free to call me Risa and I appreciate, now I appreciate. I just want to make sure that I'm very comfortable with you with first names.
[00:44:08] And so, you know, it is true. We end the book with it and it's also in our introduction about how we wanted the reader to understand this is where a place for coming from.
[00:44:18] And as a dare a shared, like we both had experiences, some very different, some similar about looking around and wondering how everybody else had gotten a copy of this playbook. They knew how to navigate the workplace.
[00:44:32] And when we did what we call comp titles, comparative titles of books in this category. First of all, the demographic of the authors is often the same. Often white, often men often in business or C-suite types.
[00:44:46] We're not that we are women, we are doctors and people say, well, why are you actually able to write this book? Well, because we're also importantly, we take care of patients in the emergency department but we're educators.
[00:44:58] We're used to figuring out how to best make the learning accessible to our students, who are colleagues to the reader. And books in this category often don't walk the reader through the how to those critical actions.
[00:45:13] So we are really aware of you know it to tell someone to go out and network. Networks seem important, network needs important, go out and do it. And how? How? So we really wanted to walk the reader through the how?
[00:45:29] I think one of the things that's unique about the book is that yes, we are physicians, yes, we're women.
[00:45:35] But also we're educators, we have been training other people at the level of being a college student or pre-med medical student or resident fellow all these different levels on the inner workings of being a physician.
[00:45:49] And we know how to teach and we give a lot of examples in the book on how we can teach someone, you know, can you go do this particular procedure?
[00:45:57] And it's not like just go do it. It's let's you know consent the patient, let's drape the patient, let's get all the equipment and order.
[00:46:05] There are all these small steps that get there. And so I think what's really important to us is that we are really trying to make sure that we're teaching people this philosophy of how to break down large large goals into small steps.
[00:46:20] And so in the book we start every chapter with a vignette that is just sort of like brings both of us and our stories and our pathway into the book so that people can really get to know us as authors, as people.
[00:46:33] And then we get into just some context as to why we think this particular micro skill is needed, just so that people don't feel like they're doing work for this sake of work.
[00:46:42] And then I think one of the unique and human aspects of this book is that we share why it might be hard for someone to incorporate this particular micro skill.
[00:46:51] I think that probably really does go back to being an educator and a physician in both of those roles we really understand why someone struggles to achieve whatever goal they are trying to get towards.
[00:47:01] And then lastly as recent mentions, we have these like critical actions which are really like what are the small small steps you have to take to get to that that goal of yours. So what are micro skills? How do you define that?
[00:47:18] Dovetailing off what a deregis shared these are small fundamental building blocks small steps and they're additive all these steps add up to achieve the goal, the task complete the project incorporate the habit.
[00:47:35] And they aren't just isolated steps for one micro skill, they all actually read throughout so I'll give an example chapter one micro skills for self care. One specific one we really value, we love the term and we use is this concept of the personal board of directors.
[00:47:54] And listeners can imagine a table and imaginary table not a real table all the different people who are your go to people who sit at that table and there's always an open share some people sit there for an isolated.
[00:48:07] Minute and some people are with you for life, but these are the people who are vested in you to succeed and help you achieve your goals in your professional journey.
[00:48:18] They're also the ones that are going to provide feedback, the ones who can you can role play difficult conversations etc.
[00:48:25] That concept of the personal board of directors is a critical action in many of the micro skills throughout the book. So our goal is to be clear this book is comprehensive and also it's impossible that we achieve every single thing that everybody needs to know for every single workplace.
[00:48:43] Although again it's comprehensive but our goal is to help the reader learn how to think learn how to break down these big paralyzing things into small pieces and like I got this.
[00:48:57] So there I'm going to ask you this question because initially I ridden it out like why did you write the book, but the way I want to ask it is who had the idea to write the book?
[00:49:12] And how did y'all decide to collaborate on it because both of y'all practice in different hospitals now. So what was the genesis behind saying we need to collaborate with.
[00:49:31] We had been writing articles together for maybe a few years before we started even writing the book. So just to give context, you know, recent I are brainwashed academics as she often says and that we thought that we could only really publish in like academic journals.
[00:49:49] And we had this idea together to start writing for the lay press larger more public audiences like Harvard Business Review, fast company C and B.C.
[00:49:58] And as we started to write these articles together I think we just became more comfortable with editing each other's work. That's a very intimate, vulnerable process.
[00:50:07] And as far as the book, you know, I've always really wanted to write a book especially as we were writing these articles that became more of an interest. Like how do I make this skill of writing bigger, you know, stronger and have more impact.
[00:50:22] And so a book just seemed like the natural progression from a series of articles. We partnered together actually even before that, like because I was looking for a mentor someone to help me figure out like my next career steps when I was back in residency and so you know when I was a resident, Reese was not a part of my life a part of my board of directors or anything but someone connected us, just again the power of networking.
[00:50:50] Because that one single conversation led us to here, but we started to have a few conversations and then there was like this one sort of more important conversation where I was asking her about how do I become a subject matter expert with mentorship and and we started talking about writing and speaking.
[00:51:07] She said this one thing that I think many of us have heard multiple times and maybe just like you know, washed it away or forgot about it which is if you ever want to, you know, do this together let me know.
[00:51:19] In that case, she said you know if you ever want to write together let me know. Now I could have easily said yes sure sure sure sure and like forgot about that offering but I actually like leaned in and truly we started to write together and that one little open door, you know, let us to writing articles giving talks.
[00:51:37] We have a book together we're doing these podcasts so like you know it's just really speaks to like this idea of seasoning opportunity and moving forward. So the world is small and you know in our world of academic emergency medicine.
[00:51:53] Aderan I have a lot of geographic overlap mostly we've been in the northeast and even more mostly in New England and we know a lot of the same people we both have studied emergency medicine we both have studied being educators we both have studied.
[00:52:11] I mean a dot a imaging diagnostic tool called ultrasound so there's lots of overlaps where we've interacted. Yeah and that kind of leads me to this question. I'm going to list some micro skills that I think well before I ask that.
[00:52:30] Do you think it's important for politicians to utilize micro skills? I can start in about help and that chapter to which I referred micro skills for self care.
[00:52:44] I strongly believe in a broad definition and actually it's not just me but what I was going to say I'll get to the part about politicians and civic health.
[00:52:54] The chapter one we broadly defined health it's not just physical health because we're doctors we talk about social health community health mental health.
[00:53:02] Financial health and I think civic health is a part of that health and so you I realized civic health is not the same as politicians but we think this way of thinking and approaching essentially any issue.
[00:53:18] So if politicians you know for the sake of argument are dealing with a large issue a large topic then why not break it down because not only can it be more comprehensible and achievable for yourself.
[00:53:35] If you're trying to convince an audience you're trying to move a crowd breaking it down into small pieces so it's digestible so people understand you it makes sense.
[00:53:46] I would assume a life as a politician is quite similar to the life of an emergency medicine doctor where there's you know high stress decisions lots of potential impact with every choice you're making. And because of that it sets you up for interpersonal conflict interpersonal collaboration.
[00:54:04] This sort of idea of how do I learn the culture of you know the office that I just joined and how do I work with all of these people like that's very similar to being a doctor or being a lawyer or being a teacher these are just universal.
[00:54:19] Experiences for someone who is employed or you know just a student trying to figure out how to navigate that environment and so I think. It's applicable to any professional for sure.
[00:54:32] I think when it comes to politicians of course by mind goes to conflict and we have a chapter specifically on navigating conflict and I think one of the most important aspects of that chapter to me is trying to mitigate your assumptions about someone else.
[00:54:51] And entering a conversation sort of with this idea of I want to be more curious about their perspective there there are a few points before I start just sort of making assumptions as to what they mean.
[00:55:05] So as an observer of politicians that seems like that would be a very helpful skill set. Well I'm glad you have such a high esteemed for politicians having. I respect the work. I mean it's hard work it's hard work.
[00:55:22] Well I haven't been with well that's okay but having having been one myself I wish that. We lived up to the comparison I think being an emergency room physician. Especially depending on the location I think you encounter a lot more stress and a lot more.
[00:55:47] You have to do a lot more compartmentalization compared to us sitting in the legislature trying to get a budget done by the end of April you know what I'm saying.
[00:55:56] But I again I appreciate it I appreciate the respect but that gets back to what I was going to say because outside of navigating conflict here's some. Micro skills that I think are important to political people set realistic timelines. Pause before accepting an opportunity.
[00:56:16] Overcome this function discomfort I'm sorry with networking and select tasks to take off your plate. Based on your knowledge of politicians in your highest team do you agree with my selections and why do you agree with it? I do.
[00:56:38] I think they are it sounds like a lot of it has to do with the idea of connecting. I mean being a politician you need to have a base of people to support you that's going to require networking.
[00:56:51] And I think a lot of folks who are uncomfortable with the idea of introducing themselves to others, pitching who they are and what they're good at and what they're looking for in others. And I think they're just nurturing a relationship in a way that feels authentic and sustainable.
[00:57:10] Like those are clear challenges for someone who is I think in a position where they really rely on the people around them to move forward and to have support to move forward.
[00:57:21] So to me that that one is stuck out the most I think the positive before the opportunity is my personal favorite microscope be honest.
[00:57:28] And so yes I can see someone in an office where they are being pitched you know policy bill all sorts of legislation in front of them.
[00:57:35] They have to decide what makes sense and so we wrote that particular microscope because we wanted people to move away from this idea of saying yes to everything.
[00:57:46] And to really try to investigate very clearly what is in front of them and if this is the right fit and by doing that you can screen more upfront and really pick things out aligned with your plate. I'll add I really like the list you selected and.
[00:58:05] As a politician you're a public servant you're in service to others and this is another actually analogy of why there's similarity between politicians and doctors and academic.
[00:58:15] And doctors and academic medicine, particular work and people will take and take and take and take and take and take and take.
[00:58:22] And a politician has 24 hours in their day a doctor has 24 hours in their day so we really subscribe to this concept of rather than follow a fear of missing out.
[00:58:34] And so I'm going to flip it to Joe Moe a joy of missing out and the more you can focus and select the items on your plate. That bring you joy that are actions legislation on which you really really want to work.
[00:58:50] The better the work product, the better you feel about yourself and about your work and the better team player you are. Well the opportunity. Pauzing before accepting an opportunity.
[00:59:06] Kind of works both ways in in in my experience it's like it's one thing and it's not just legislation it's like even deciding to run for something else because what we end up doing if we end up being successful and getting elected to something.
[00:59:23] Then if we show that we are capable or we develop a following or whatever then somebody is going to encourage us to run for something else.
[00:59:35] And in my real life experience I had to make a decision early on because there were some people that wanted me to run for lieutenant governor.
[00:59:44] And I hesitated because I was like, how am I going to get the money and not that I but then my my son showed up.
[00:59:55] So once I found out I was going to be a dad that that helped me decide no I'm not going to do it at this particular moment.
[01:00:02] But then I ended up running for a statewide office later on but it's it's important for people not to just fall for the trap about. Jumping out at something based based on flattery or based on ego or whatever and so I think that's a very important thing.
[01:00:25] The other thing I had to deal with was the networking piece because I'm a natural intro and a lot of people in my life were surprised that I got into politics and even with some what successful because.
[01:00:42] You know people in college were like we thought you were stuck up we didn't know that you know you liked to be around people and I said well. I know I have to talk to people to get elected.
[01:00:54] So I think those were the two that kind of really stood out to me because I really did have to overcome a discomfort about reaching out to people and so. But there when you told the story about how you and Lisa connected to do that that's.
[01:01:13] That's why network is important because regardless of your discomfort it's. You have to reach out to people because you never know when that next opportunity will show up.
[01:01:26] Could not agree more and you know we do have a designated chapter as you know micro skills for networking and we really like talking about this microscope because everybody.
[01:01:39] Hasn't network whether they realize it or not a lot of people think they're starting from network zero and I identify strongly with you Eric I too am an introvert now I'm actually not shy and I think I'm socially adept I know I'm socially adept but.
[01:01:54] I recharge solo I like one on ones and there are books written about this and we walk the reader through how if you're an introvert you can still be quite successful networking and we don't want people to take networking.
[01:02:09] Off their plate if they identify as an introverts because you can be successful we want you to be successful because it helps you be better at work. All right, so.
[01:02:22] You encourage people you also encourage people to nurture their local reputation and that that also definitely struck a nerve as far as being a politician. Why is that so crucial and what are some ways to do. I bet you have a lot of stories to share.
[01:02:43] I think when you're on the up and up you know you're a shooting star you're rising star and people are pouring a lot of energy into you.
[01:02:52] Like you said earlier it can be very easy to be distracted by the opportunity by the flattery and think about the the more shiny object in front of you and that can cause distractions as you're especially trying to gain.
[01:03:06] You know a reputation from let's say city to county to state to national sort of growth you can forget the step that occurred before and the people that helped you along the way.
[01:03:20] And so it's really important as you're growing up to remember those who you relied upon so much who helped you and so you want to really nurture that reputation you want to make sure that you are paying attention to your roles and your responsibility.
[01:03:35] So you're responsibility is there as well and not just like forgetting people ghosting people dropping things like in the middle of a crisis because something else like I said is much bigger and better in front of you.
[01:03:48] There's this balance and you want to be thoughtful of like yes I could be developing this large national reputation but what do people think of me locally and the reason why we wanted to do this chapter I mean I have I have a personal experience with this where I was a part of a.
[01:04:04] a startup and one of the the leaders of the startup had this like amazing national reputation you can even argue international reputation in a field.
[01:04:14] But the people who knew this individual up close and personal within the company had a very different impression of them and so you know behind the scenes there were different conversations happening and that could really affect your reputation.
[01:04:28] And recent I are not about fear mongering but we are about expressing the truth and making people realize like what is the reality and what could happen.
[01:04:38] I'll add that at the end of the day we're all hired for a job and that job often has a job description roles and responsibilities and I've been on teams where someone is not.
[01:04:52] Completing their own roles and responsibilities and it really takes a hit to the team and the morale of the team.
[01:04:59] Especially if you have a colleague for example that promises they're going to follow through promises they're going to do their part and they don't it's really devastating to team morale as I shared and.
[01:05:12] To really share one of the backbones of the book and the way we walk readers through our different chapters on our table of contents we really believe everything starts with the self and the more you're in a really good place with yourself.
[01:05:25] The better team player you are and the better the function of the team, the better the work product now these aren't all in isolation and they don't have to go linearly but you know we want the reader to really.
[01:05:37] Prioritize themselves so that they're in a great place to prioritize the team and the work. Yeah and you're right I do have a lot of stories but the let me let me just let me just ask this question before we close up. A lot of people write books.
[01:05:58] To give people advice. And then the question I have because I don't know if it's a positive quality but I'm like are they following their own advice is this something that they really.
[01:06:18] By into or they just exercise and saying I think I can sell some books that way. I know that you've had personal experiences where you've developed a skill set real quickly just kind of tell.
[01:06:33] How learning these micro skills learning how to manage and learning how to nurture them have helped you in the business. I want to comment on this idea of authors not sort of practicing what they preach.
[01:06:51] You know as recent I write the articles before and the book in many times we might write something at them then the other person says I don't think we do this actually I don't think this is actually authentic at all and so there I can think of many times where that's gone both ways.
[01:07:09] I think there was something on like we run article like snacks to eat and I love seaweed and Reese is like I don't eat seaweed so I don't wish to put that there. And it's like but I love seaweed.
[01:07:20] So you know we really do call each other in and make sure that we are there is some truth to at least one of us living that advice that we're giving.
[01:07:31] In regards to a personal anecdote I will say that the micro skill for setting up boundaries was a really really defining moment for me.
[01:07:43] I'll make the story short because I know we're wrapping up but there was a moment during COVID where I had a two year old and a one year old at home.
[01:07:50] And as you know I think you mentioned that you have children kids are very ritualistic when it comes to bedtime like it's insane. When I was offered a panel to join a panel and it was at 7 p.m.
[01:08:02] And so or 6 p.m. but when I accepted I was like oh this is like right during like dinner bedtime, but I had that like fear of like what if I miss out.
[01:08:11] So I said yes and of course the night of it's a disaster my kids are like banging on the door.
[01:08:18] I'm trying to lock them out of my room and I'm putting up the laptop and I'm just hearing screaming on one side and on the other side I'm hearing you know the panelists ask me questions and the first question truly that they asked was Dr. Landrie can you tell me about how you're able to balance work in life so well.
[01:08:35] And I was like what so you talk about being authentic I was like what am I doing here?
[01:08:40] So it was at that moment I said never literally never again recent knows I follow this so strictly never again am I doing these like evening things at home with my kids awake and alert and so I started blocking out 6 to 9 p.m.
[01:08:55] And I realized that it had no impact on my career. I still progressed and then I moved to weekends again no impact and I just sort of creating these like boundaries and realizing like when I want to work and when I need rest and that was like a life changing thing and I think
[01:09:10] Lisa subscribes that in her own way and we put that into the book. And I'll say I really like this question and I respect the skepticism because we know you have stories Eric.
[01:09:23] But and we definitely are not writing from a place of superiority or we've got this perfectly done and look at us and that is exactly why we put in these pretty vulnerable honest stories somewhere we we succeeded somewhere we epic failed.
[01:09:42] And you know there are ones that I'm always working on one for me is actually asking for and giving feedback because it's really hard and I think it's the human condition to try to avoid anything that might be tough or conflicting.
[01:09:57] And so anyway these are works and progress for all works and progress is humans and that's also why we importantly added that section of why this microscope may be hard because what might be really easy for me to learn and incorporate into my daily practice might be super hard for someone else and vice versa.
[01:10:16] So you know we we leave it open to sharing how we have not done this all right and back we've done it, you know very wrong but look we've learned and it's made us kind of stronger better and seeing the workplace more realistically.
[01:10:31] Yeah and I'm not I wasn't trying to infer anything about YouTube ladies I know that I know that you're a sincere. But I just you know I felt that that's something that needs to come out so.
[01:10:45] No it's honestly the fair comment like we have seen it so I think it was totally fair. Yeah and so that leads me to my favorite part of the podcast which is plugging the book so.
[01:10:57] Tell people how they can get it and also tell people how they can get in touch with you all. To you know come and speak or ask questions aware of the case maybe.
[01:11:10] So the book is available at all major book stores you can order at Barnes and Noble's Amazon target and then it should be it could be at your local independent bookstore so please check and if not request it.
[01:11:23] You can also order it on audible Kindle and then as far as our contact information recent I both have personal websites. A dare landry md dot com and reselluus md dot com we're just yeah and then we are both on all the socials linked in x.
[01:11:43] Instagram I have a sick off but I don't use it because I don't like to dance and I feel like you have to. I don't have the dance on sick time.
[01:11:52] I think you do well anyway so I'm so I haven't but I don't use it but um so just type in our names and you'll find us and we are more than happy to answer questions to come speak.
[01:12:04] We we we love to speak on these topics so just feel free to reach out to us. Yeah podcasts radio we'd love to come to education institutions of learning you know be they high school college community college.
[01:12:20] Any one anywhere where learning skills for navigating work no matter the industry we think that our content can hit home.
[01:12:29] All right and the name of the book is called micro skills small actions big impact and the authors are doctor a dera landry and doctor reselluus ladies thank y'all for taking the time out today to come on to podcast I'm really honored to have you and.
[01:12:48] Any time you want to come on and and and give glowing examples of political leaders just feel free to come on. Thanks very much. All right guys we'll catch all on the other side. All right and we are back so. I want to thank my guests.
[01:13:21] For a Harris doctor dera landry and doctor reselluus for coming on the podcast enjoyed my conversations with them even though with doctor Harris. dealing with some technical difficulties based on. The storms that went through the Chicago area that's where she's based out of so. I hope y'all appreciated.
[01:13:50] My editing. He has best is like a better but you know you got to just the interview so. I hope that's helpful and I hope that you buy her book the color of emotion with intelligence as well as buying doctor landry and doctor Lewis is book. Micro skills.
[01:14:09] And speaking of Chicago. It looks like I it's going to be a very exciting convention. So I need y'all to go to www dot moment Eric dot com. And make your donation.
[01:14:27] Leading into this podcast we had a good week in raising money and we want to keep the momentum going. So whatever you can do whatever you can donate. Please go ahead and do that because we're we're going to do some exciting things.
[01:14:49] You know I had mentioned about doing like a daily on patreon that people can. Get for free. We're talking about doing big clothes out podcast. You know after the convention. With you know some heavy hitters as far as interviews go.
[01:15:14] And then the other thing is that there's a new. Site or app called chatter which was started by African American who. It's it's very similar to club and so what I have thought of and set up is we're going to do live coverage from the convention.
[01:15:43] So I'm going to be able to be on the floor and hear the speeches and all that. So if you want to hear the speeches and interact right and give your commentary about the speeches instead of hearing talking heads from. The major networks.
[01:16:08] Because some of it is going to be some speeches that you won't hear on the major networks. They won't cover them but we'll do it. At least the speeches from eight o'clock on. So you know that will give us about, you know a couple hours not less.
[01:16:27] Somebody gets long-winded like former president drop and speaks for an hour and a half which I doubt anybody else would do that.
[01:16:36] So I'll give you about a couple hours to hear the speeches and probably hear some speeches from folks that you may not hear their whole speech on TV. Now let's see what it will see span.
[01:16:46] But unlike C span, you'll be able to chat in real time if you download the chatter app. And as people are speaking or as you know you're after they do speak. And so I think and you know I'll be able to interact with you as well.
[01:17:09] And I think that will be an additional bonus as far as covering what looks like is going to be a very historic convention. All right, so with that ladies and gentlemen, I appreciate you all listening as always. Keep those donations coming until next time. Thank you.