Host Erik Fleming leads a fast-moving episode featuring three guests: Dr. Tammy Greer on the implications of Louisiana v. Callais and Southern redistricting, Les Leopold discussing his new book calling for a working-class political party, and Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark on her run for Georgia’s 13th Congressional District.
The show mixes policy analysis, campaign updates, and a moment-of-news roundup, exploring how redistricting, labor organizing, and science-based leadership intersect with voting rights and the 2026 political landscape.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:05 Hello and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:10 And we're going from one extreme to the other. It's like we didn't have any
00:02:10 --> 00:02:16 guests last week, so you just got to listen to little old me ranting rave for about an hour.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:22 But this week, we've got three guests. Two of them have been on the show before.
00:02:22 --> 00:02:29 Good friend that's a political scientist here in Georgia and quick becoming a
00:02:29 --> 00:02:36 friend that has been involved in labor issues and is a very prolific author.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:38 And so we're going to talk about his latest book.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:40 Then I've got a candidate for Congress.
00:02:41 --> 00:02:45 I've been fortunate to have some other candidates for Congress,
00:02:45 --> 00:02:48 you know, in other parts of the country.
00:02:48 --> 00:02:53 And this one is running in a race in Georgia and early voting is going on right
00:02:53 --> 00:02:59 now. So for her to take her time out of campaigning, come on a podcast,
00:02:59 --> 00:03:00 I greatly appreciate that.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:05 And I hope that you get something from that, especially if you live in the state
00:03:05 --> 00:03:11 of Georgia, that this conversation will help you in making your decision.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:19 Boy, things are going pretty fast after that Louisiana versus Callais decision.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 And I'm going to get into that a little bit after the interviews.
00:03:22 --> 00:03:29 But what an important time for independent voices in the podcasting world.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:37 You know, I was listening to somebody on Instagram bring up the fact that what's
00:03:37 --> 00:03:45 going on in Tennessee hasn't really been covered thoroughly in the major media markets.
00:03:46 --> 00:03:47 You know, major networks.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:52 But, you know, it's been all over social media and, you know,
00:03:52 --> 00:03:56 some of the cable networks, of course, have covered it. But what we call the
00:03:56 --> 00:04:01 legacy media has really been kind of lax in the coverage on that.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:06 So that's why you need to have independent voices like A Moment with Erik Fleming,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:11 for example, to at least keep you up to date with what's going on.
00:04:11 --> 00:04:19 I don't do a daily podcast anymore, so that's, you know, mine is more summaries than anything else.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:24 But there are other podcasters out there that are doing it on a daily or at
00:04:24 --> 00:04:27 least, you know, two or three times a week.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:33 So, you know, please listen to them as well as listen to this podcast so you
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00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 time listening, welcome. them.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:34 If you're a regular listener, please, please do that. You can write reviews, the whole nine yards.
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00:05:44 --> 00:05:47 All right. Having said all that, it's time to kick this program off.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:52 And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:05:59 --> 00:06:04 Thanks, Erik. The Virginia State Supreme Court ruled that the state's recent
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 redistricting referendum was unconstitutional.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:13 Republican governors in Alabama and Tennessee called special sessions to draw
00:06:13 --> 00:06:16 and approve new congressional maps ahead of the midterm elections.
00:06:17 --> 00:06:22 Spirit Airlines has ceased operations after failing to secure a government bailout,
00:06:22 --> 00:06:27 becoming the first major aviation casualty of rising fuel prices and economic
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 instability caused by the war in Iran. The U.S.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:35 Supreme Court issued an administrative stay to temporarily preserve nationwide
00:06:35 --> 00:06:39 access to the abortion pill via telemedicine and mail.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:44 Federal agents conducted a corruption-related search of Virginia Senate leader
00:06:44 --> 00:06:49 Louise Lucas' district office and business, following her prominent role in
00:06:49 --> 00:06:51 leading the state's recent redistricting efforts.
00:06:52 --> 00:06:57 Sherrod Brown won the Ohio Democratic primary to challenge Republican John Husted
00:06:57 --> 00:07:00 in a race critical for U.S. Senate control.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:06 Vivek Ramaswamy won the Republican primary for Ohio governor and will face Democrat
00:07:06 --> 00:07:09 Amy Action in the general election.
00:07:09 --> 00:07:14 In the Indiana Republican primary, Trump-endorsed challengers defeated five
00:07:14 --> 00:07:18 Republican state senators who had blocked his redistricting plans.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:23 A federal judge has ruled that the Justice Department is allowed to keep 2020
00:07:23 --> 00:07:28 election ballots seized during an FBI search of the Fulton County Board of Elections.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:33 U.S. and Moroccan forces launched a search-and-rescue operation for two American
00:07:33 --> 00:07:38 service members who went missing after reportedly falling into the ocean during
00:07:38 --> 00:07:40 the African lion military exercise.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 A federal judge blocked the Trump administration's attempt to end temporary
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 legal protections for Yemeni nationals.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:53 The Pennsylvania House of Representatives passed a bill to ban discriminatory
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 member-only housing practices, closing a legal loophole that extremist groups
00:07:57 --> 00:08:00 used to establish segregated communities.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:05 And CNN founder Ted Turner died at the age of 87.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:09 I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.
00:08:16 --> 00:08:21 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for
00:08:21 --> 00:08:23 my guest, Dr. Tammy Greer.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:29 Dr. Greer currently serves as a clinical assistant professor and director of
00:08:29 --> 00:08:35 the BIS Social Entrepreneurship Program in the Public Management and Policy
00:08:35 --> 00:08:40 Department at the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies at Georgia State University.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:46 She has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and a master of security management,
00:08:46 --> 00:08:51 both from the University of Houston downtown, as well as a PhD in political
00:08:51 --> 00:08:55 science from Clark Atlanta University, with focus areas in American government,
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 including state and local government, urban politics,
00:08:59 --> 00:09:01 comparative politics, and international politics.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 She has served in numerous capacities in the private sector,
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 as well as the public sector, including as an educator.
00:09:09 --> 00:09:12 Dr. Greer's interests include community and civic involvement,
00:09:13 --> 00:09:18 focusing on how policy and the lack of equitable public policy impact historically
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 underserved communities.
00:09:20 --> 00:09:25 She advocates for consistent civic engagement in voting, especially in non-presidential
00:09:25 --> 00:09:29 elections, which means voting for all positions on the ballot.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:33 Dr. Greer served as a board member on several organizations,
00:09:33 --> 00:09:38 including Georgia Women Connect, Media Policy Center, and the community chair
00:09:38 --> 00:09:43 working to create community garden in an urban food desert community.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:47 Dr. Greer has been interviewed in numerous state, nationwide,
00:09:47 --> 00:09:53 and international media outlets, including CNBC, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation,
00:09:54 --> 00:09:56 NPR, Washington Post, WGN.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:02 Christian Science Monitor, and the Atlanta General Constitution regarding politics and policy.
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 She is the author of the forthcoming book, Checks Without Change,
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 Moving from Protest to Policy.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 And she is a frequent guest.
00:10:13 --> 00:10:17 Of a moment with Erik Fleming. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor
00:10:17 --> 00:10:22 and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Dr. Tammy Greer.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:37 All right. Dr. Tammy Greer. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing okay.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 You know, like I tell people, I do the podcast with therapy.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:50 So I think this is a good time to have some therapy going on.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:55 So I'm going to do something a little different with you this time since you've been on before.
00:10:56 --> 00:11:00 But I do want you to respond to this quote because I I thought this was pretty cool.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:05 You said policy shapes every issue our students care about.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:10 When they begin to see that connection, they understand they have a role to
00:11:10 --> 00:11:14 play in improving their communities. Talk to me about that quote.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:20 Sometimes the way that we view policy is that it's separate from who we are
00:11:20 --> 00:11:23 and what we want to do in life.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:28 And when we understand that it is a natural connection, that policy manages
00:11:28 --> 00:11:36 every single thing that we do, then we become invested in policy generally.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:41 We may start off with being invested in specific policies, so whether we are
00:11:41 --> 00:11:47 interested in art or in computer science or in engineering, then we will become
00:11:47 --> 00:11:50 interested in policy as it pertains to those specific areas.
00:11:51 --> 00:11:58 And then we'll begin to realize that policy then has a ripple effect into every other aspect.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:03 And once we can start talking about policy rather than the politicking,
00:12:04 --> 00:12:10 then we can get more people invested in the process that helps this republic
00:12:10 --> 00:12:14 to perhaps continue for another 250 years.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 Yeah, that's hopeful thinking.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:22 I think you're on the right track.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:32 I think people need to be more articulate about the issues and the connectivity
00:12:32 --> 00:12:37 of those issues, because a lot of people just feel that politics is over there,
00:12:37 --> 00:12:41 and I'm living my life, and that's something I've been preaching,
00:12:42 --> 00:12:46 and I'm just glad that there's other people in the pulpit doing the same thing.
00:12:47 --> 00:12:52 All right, let's get into it, Doc. What are your thoughts on Louisiana versus
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56 Callais, which dealt with the section two of the Voting Rights Act?
00:12:57 --> 00:13:04 Sure. So my thoughts are very different or maybe more nuanced and perhaps hopeful,
00:13:04 --> 00:13:08 as you described to me with my previous quote.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:16 So my thoughts are this, that when I read the decision that it is based on the
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 Voting Rights Act and that Louisiana,
00:13:19 --> 00:13:25 according to the VRA in 1965, had only one majority minority seat.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:30 And then when Louisiana changed its map in 2022, it drew two.
00:13:31 --> 00:13:35 And that was the challenge, that second district instead of, and not the first.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:38 So it's not both of them, it's just the more recent one.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:42 And so that got me to thinking that if we,
00:13:43 --> 00:13:48 while I understand from a historical standpoint that it was critically important
00:13:48 --> 00:13:56 post-Reconstruction and all of that damage with Jim Crow and just, you know,
00:13:56 --> 00:14:04 years and years of oppression that the Voting Rights Act allowed for there to
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 be some type of reconciliation.
00:14:07 --> 00:14:12 If we can use that word, for people, for Black people in particular,
00:14:12 --> 00:14:17 to be able to have voting significance, right?
00:14:17 --> 00:14:21 Their vote mattered in terms of representation.
00:14:21 --> 00:14:28 I get that. So now that we've moved forward for these past 60 plus years,
00:14:28 --> 00:14:31 the question that I have is, number one,
00:14:31 --> 00:14:36 why are we satisfied with just, why are we satisfied with carving out.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:44 A seat or two, right? Mississippi had one and now they got two and now they're
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 about to challenge that second one.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:53 Why are we satisfied with those two versus as we discuss so many times during
00:14:53 --> 00:14:58 presidential years, as well as during a midterm election years,
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 the significance of the Black vote.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:09 If we believe that we have a role to play overall, why are we confining ourselves
00:15:09 --> 00:15:11 to those one or two seats?
00:15:11 --> 00:15:17 Because many of the folks in Louisiana, in Mississippi, in Georgia,
00:15:17 --> 00:15:23 in Alabama don't live necessarily in those compressed areas.
00:15:23 --> 00:15:26 They also live in other spaces throughout the States,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:33 which means that they can have an electoral advantage in those districts to
00:15:33 --> 00:15:42 create competitive spaces where you don't necessarily need to have a far-right conservative that is.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:50 Always in that seat, or to have a Democrat to be in that seat,
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 and it's the same Democrat for multiple years.
00:15:54 --> 00:16:01 Why are we okay with that? I think that we should really be into the space of
00:16:01 --> 00:16:07 when we say that our vote, the Black vote matters, and the Black vote has significance.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:12 You know, my thought is that we should treat that Black vote like we treat the
00:16:12 --> 00:16:17 Black vote for statewide races as well as presidential races,
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 where people need to come and we need to show out.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:28 And if we could do that, then we won't need to be confined to one seat at a
00:16:28 --> 00:16:33 table to when the Voting Rights Act came that it was,
00:16:33 --> 00:16:39 what, 40 seats that we had at a 535-seat table.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 I think that we need to do more.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 I think that we should ask for more.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:52 I think that having more competitive races will allow for us to, overall as a country.
00:16:52 --> 00:17:01 To move beyond people having legacy seats, to move beyond people holding seats for a long time.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:08 Because even if we had that one seat in Louisiana, how many times is that Democrat
00:17:08 --> 00:17:12 who's holding that seat being primaried by somebody else?
00:17:12 --> 00:17:19 How many times do we allow for someone to primary that particular individual?
00:17:19 --> 00:17:24 We don't do that. So we don't have competitiveness inside of our own,
00:17:24 --> 00:17:26 quote unquote, safe seats.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:32 So how can we move the needle forward in this country when it comes to legislating
00:17:32 --> 00:17:38 for the masses if we're only confining ourselves to, I don't know,
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 a fifth of our legislative body? I think we can do better than that.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:51 Well, I think that's definitely nuanced, as you said.
00:17:52 --> 00:17:59 I think the challenge is, you know, when we, you know, like when we look at
00:17:59 --> 00:18:01 people that come from, say,
00:18:01 --> 00:18:08 California or Illinois, where I'm originally from, there is a track record of
00:18:08 --> 00:18:10 white people voting for black candidates.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 As a matter of fact, all of the congressional districts that are represented
00:18:14 --> 00:18:19 by black folks in Congress in California are not majority black districts.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:24 So that's, you know, that's the idea.
00:18:24 --> 00:18:27 That's the situation you're, you're, you're pushing that we,
00:18:27 --> 00:18:33 it's like, we put a quality candidate out there and let the people decide.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 And if, you know, and hopefully that person will win, you know,
00:18:36 --> 00:18:43 and when you see states like Delaware, elect a black person to be the U.S. senator.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:50 That's the goal that you're pushing. But you and I are now here in the South.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:56 And it's like the minute that that decision came out,
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 In Mississippi, where I where I cut my political teeth, really,
00:19:01 --> 00:19:06 they're talking about drawing the one black district that we got out in Louisiana.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:13 They've got a map now where instead of just conceding that one seat for,
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 I guess, that's Congressman Carter in out of New Orleans.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:22 Now they got a map where New Orleans is like divided and everything is fanning out.
00:19:23 --> 00:19:27 I don't know if that's going to make it on the floor or anything, but it's out there.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:33 So they it's like, you know, the spirit of the Voting Rights Act was to deal
00:19:33 --> 00:19:39 with the southern states because that genetic, you know, you can call it genetics or whatever.
00:19:40 --> 00:19:47 But that that tradition of not respecting black votes or black representation,
00:19:47 --> 00:19:49 you know, that's why they had
00:19:49 --> 00:19:53 to go through the plea clearance and Section 5 and all the other stuff.
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 Alabama is in a special session now trying to figure out if they can not only
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 get rid of congressman figures, but Congresswoman Sewell do.
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 So I think that's where the that's where the tension is.
00:20:06 --> 00:20:11 It's not, you know, I've expressed to you and other people that my goal is to see.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:17 A black person run as a Democrat nominee and a black person run as a Republican
00:20:17 --> 00:20:20 nominee for president, but we're not there yet.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:29 And I think that's, that's, that's the, the, the, the concern that, that a lot of us have.
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 I, we just, you know, Georgia has been very lucky.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:39 I would say Reverend Warnock to be able to win a Senate race and that the Republican
00:20:39 --> 00:20:44 party conceded that and put a black person up against him when he ran for the
00:20:44 --> 00:20:46 first time, you know, for the full term.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 But that's the only other southern states you're going to see that.
00:20:50 --> 00:20:55 When I ran, Mike Espy ran, and now Scott Colon's running in Mississippi,
00:20:55 --> 00:21:02 you know, we're going up against some white Republican that's been there for a minute, right?
00:21:02 --> 00:21:06 Mike was the only one that actually got to run an open seat, as a matter of fact.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 Harold Ford, when he ran in Tennessee, he had to, it was an open seat,
00:21:10 --> 00:21:16 But it was just and he was a sitting congressman and he he lost to a mayor of a city. Right.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:21 So, I mean, that's I think that's that's where I come from.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:28 I, you know, I've seen what you talk, what you've talked about,
00:21:28 --> 00:21:34 but I'm I'm not seeing it here in the South right now.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:41 And that's why I think this thing has been devastating, because half of the
00:21:41 --> 00:21:45 Black population in the country, or over half, is in the South.
00:21:45 --> 00:21:50 And if we're going to have political power, we still need to have protection.
00:21:51 --> 00:21:55 Professor, tell me where I'm wrong. Are you...
00:21:57 --> 00:22:03 No, it's not where you're wrong. To me, it's an and, right? It's a both and.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:11 And the other and is, yes, more than 50% of Black people live in the South,
00:22:12 --> 00:22:16 yet we're voting way below our weight.
00:22:16 --> 00:22:19 And if we're voting way below our weight,
00:22:20 --> 00:22:30 we're asking for those that participate regularly to create the space for the
00:22:30 --> 00:22:35 majority of us who are not participating in all of these elections.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:42 So we can have these great get-out-the-vote efforts by all these civic groups
00:22:42 --> 00:22:48 in a presidential year or in a high-stakes midterm.
00:22:48 --> 00:22:55 Yet, where are we when it comes to the get-out-the-vote and the support of candidates
00:22:55 --> 00:23:00 running for these state houses where these districts are drawn?
00:23:00 --> 00:23:07 That's where we're having a lack of, right? So we're already voting below average
00:23:07 --> 00:23:13 in presidential years, yet it's still a higher percentage, yet that's in presidential years.
00:23:13 --> 00:23:20 And then when we look at midterm elections, when we look at local elections, we're not there, right?
00:23:20 --> 00:23:24 In Georgia, this is, we're ending our second week of early voting.
00:23:25 --> 00:23:30 And when you look at the, while the number of folks who have voted early is
00:23:30 --> 00:23:35 technically higher than it has been, it is still far lower.
00:23:35 --> 00:23:42 So where are we in supporting these efforts?
00:23:42 --> 00:23:48 And if we are not supporting these efforts by using the privilege that the Voting
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 Rights Act of 1965 has given us,
00:23:52 --> 00:23:58 then we're like fighting against a headwind here because we're wanting more,
00:23:58 --> 00:24:06 yet we're not moving collectively to say we really do want more and then want
00:24:06 --> 00:24:10 things codified because we're not moving collectively for that.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:16 And that's where elected officials, because they want to be reelected.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:23 So if they want to be reelected, then the people voting for them need to move
00:24:23 --> 00:24:27 in the same direction to push them to do what we want them to do.
00:24:27 --> 00:24:33 And sometimes we, we collective, you know, universal we, we take,
00:24:33 --> 00:24:38 we think that the people who are running for office or who are in office,
00:24:38 --> 00:24:40 like we're beholding to them.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:46 No, we have the ability to hire and fire them. And we don't do that.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:54 We let them off the hook instead of moving in the spirit to which we say we
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 want things done. We have to move in that way.
00:24:58 --> 00:25:06 Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I think I sat in on that Zoom call that they
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 had this weekend when with black women.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:18 And I think, you know, the decision has kind of spurred them to do what you've asked them.
00:25:18 --> 00:25:23 What you're asking to do is that put some, you know, focus in on,
00:25:24 --> 00:25:29 because there was a lot of discussion about not just focusing in on this election
00:25:29 --> 00:25:31 and getting turnout and all that,
00:25:31 --> 00:25:39 but also even staying focused for the presidential election in 28 and even the census in 30,
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 because all those things are going to be important as
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 far as getting the turnout
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 and getting an accurate number i think stacy
00:25:49 --> 00:25:52 abrams said that 90 million people didn't vote
00:25:52 --> 00:25:56 in the presidential election in 2024 and she
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 said her mission in life is to get
00:25:59 --> 00:26:06 those 90 million people to show up it was 96 million oh wow so that's her mission
00:26:06 --> 00:26:10 in life is to get those people because they're already registered we just got
00:26:10 --> 00:26:16 to get them yeah all right so i guess we kind of talked about.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:24 The impact is, well, so in the scenario I just gave you, the impact on Black
00:26:24 --> 00:26:27 representation, the New York Times put out a map.
00:26:28 --> 00:26:30 And I think that's what kind of got people stirred up.
00:26:31 --> 00:26:36 The New York Times showed a map of the current Black representation in the South.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:42 And then based on their reporting, they put out a map of what it's going to
00:26:42 --> 00:26:46 look like if all these states do this redistricting.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 And you know Mississippi's gonna it was
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 basically red till you got to Georgia and then
00:26:53 --> 00:26:58 there was some blue dots right around Atlanta and then it was red till you got
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 to South Carolina I think there was some a blue dot there and then you got to
00:27:02 --> 00:27:07 North Carolina and there was a blue dot there in Florida it's like when that
00:27:07 --> 00:27:12 New York Times map came out and showed that basically all those black districts,
00:27:12 --> 00:27:14 except a select few, are going to be wiped out.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 I think that's what really kind of stirred people. It was one thing to hear
00:27:19 --> 00:27:24 that the decision happened, but that visual kind of got some people going.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 And if they're going to do it to the congressional districts,
00:27:28 --> 00:27:30 then they're going to go in these state districts too.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:34 So what would be,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:40 I guess my question to you would be, What would be the impact if that nightmare
00:27:40 --> 00:27:46 scenario happens and we lose, you know, those seats in the South,
00:27:46 --> 00:27:48 especially at the state legislative level?
00:27:49 --> 00:28:00 So what would happen is you would see that the map looks more like it did after
00:28:00 --> 00:28:03 the Civil Rights Act was signed, right?
00:28:03 --> 00:28:11 Where you saw the party switch from the South being predominantly old school,
00:28:11 --> 00:28:16 you know, really old school Democrats to them being Republican.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:19 And that's what you would see. Again, though.
00:28:20 --> 00:28:25 The variable that we're missing when we're looking at history and we're looking
00:28:25 --> 00:28:32 at today is that today we have the ability to participate in this system,
00:28:32 --> 00:28:40 whereas before it was inconsistent whether or not the law allowed for us to participate.
00:28:40 --> 00:28:46 So generally speaking today, we have that ability to participate and because we do,
00:28:46 --> 00:28:55 the question that I am really pushing us to sit in is whether or not we're using
00:28:55 --> 00:29:01 our privilege to participate as a voting member in this country.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:14 Are we using that privilege to our advantage or are we ceding our citizenship in terms of voting?
00:29:14 --> 00:29:21 Are we ceding that to a group of people who are intentionally carving out.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:31 And diluting our ability to impact the elections and to impact elected officials.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:38 So it's like one of those things where are we ceding our vote and we're just
00:29:38 --> 00:29:40 not participating and say, you know what, it's all rigged.
00:29:41 --> 00:29:42 People are going to do what they want to do anyway.
00:29:43 --> 00:29:48 And the people who are in office, they're all crooks and all of this other stuff
00:29:48 --> 00:29:53 that we tell ourselves to make it easier for us not to participate.
00:29:53 --> 00:29:58 Or do we participate and then we push toward the things that we want?
00:29:58 --> 00:30:04 And if we're not doing that part and we're saying, well, I'm not going to participate
00:30:04 --> 00:30:08 anyway because it doesn't matter, then why are we really frustrated?
00:30:09 --> 00:30:16 Why are we angry? Like if you opt out of the game, then how can you then talk
00:30:16 --> 00:30:18 about the plays that are being called?
00:30:18 --> 00:30:22 How can you then have commentary on how the players are behaving?
00:30:23 --> 00:30:28 We have the ability for most of us to be in this game.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:32 And then those of us who talk about social justice,
00:30:33 --> 00:30:38 who talk about the impact of some of these policies, you have the ability to
00:30:38 --> 00:30:46 get into the arena to change some of these policies so that there could be more equity.
00:30:46 --> 00:30:50 So that we can talk about people who are formerly incarcerated,
00:30:50 --> 00:30:55 ensuring that they have the ability to vote. And so then they are no longer
00:30:55 --> 00:30:59 being taxed without being represented, right?
00:30:59 --> 00:31:07 Then we can make these differences. But if we're opting out because somebody changed the rules...
00:31:08 --> 00:31:17 Then you're like seeding the game. I don't know how we can just sit back rather
00:31:17 --> 00:31:24 than forcefully being in this arena all the time because they're not seeding their ground.
00:31:24 --> 00:31:29 When you think about it, if they get a win, they're not sitting down.
00:31:30 --> 00:31:36 Why do we get a piece of a win and sit down? We cannot sit down. We have to be creative.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:40 We have to understand the structure and function of government.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:46 We have to understand these laws and how these laws are created and the impact of them.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:56 We have to be in the arena at every level, at every corner, all the time, and work toward this.
00:31:56 --> 00:32:03 And we cannot only have certain people or 10% of the community doing all of
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 this work and then complaining that stuff isn't done.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:10 I don't see how we benefit from that.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:18 Yeah. Are you surprised that Governor Kemp has not gotten on no Southern redistricting train?
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 No, I am not surprised. It is on brand.
00:32:24 --> 00:32:28 It makes sense for Georgia because, number one, As you said,
00:32:29 --> 00:32:36 the economic power that Metro Atlanta has.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 You know, helps to run the entire state.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:47 We also have to fully appreciate that, you know, Black folk live all over Georgia.
00:32:48 --> 00:32:53 So there may be some concentrations in Metro and there's concentrations along
00:32:53 --> 00:32:58 the fall line or the Black Belt or the Cotton Belt, whatever one you want to call it, right?
00:32:59 --> 00:33:02 There's a concentration there. There's a concentration in South Georgia.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:13 So, you know, to do that is to put additional, you know, depending on how you barbecue.
00:33:13 --> 00:33:22 So my daddy used coal. So put more coal on there to make it hotter politically in the state.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:30 So if the governor were to do that, then that would make a whole bunch of people angry.
00:33:30 --> 00:33:38 And it's already thought to be a midterm that is going to be a major win for
00:33:38 --> 00:33:43 Democrats in the House of Representatives and very well could be in the U.S. Senate.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:52 So you're going to put more political pressure on these spaces where you also
00:33:52 --> 00:33:59 could have some Republicans to lose their seats in the State House and the House
00:33:59 --> 00:34:03 of Representatives on the federal level on top of gas prices,
00:34:03 --> 00:34:06 on top of inflation, on top of high groceries,
00:34:07 --> 00:34:12 on top of people feeling some kind of way about the war in Iran,
00:34:12 --> 00:34:17 all of these things, and then you want to redistrict on top of that.
00:34:17 --> 00:34:23 You're wishing for your state to flip if you do that.
00:34:24 --> 00:34:33 So the governor has more tact in understanding that there has been great interest
00:34:33 --> 00:34:38 in Georgia, which means that more money is going to flood into Georgia for these midterms.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:48 The governor also knows that there has been increase in participation by some of the voters,
00:34:48 --> 00:34:56 as well as to your own point about people moving from other areas across the
00:34:56 --> 00:35:04 country into the South and having more understanding of their power of the vote.
00:35:05 --> 00:35:09 And so they participate more. So if you do some of these things,
00:35:10 --> 00:35:15 you're literally disrupting your own political party inside of your state.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:22 And so the governor is more strategic and understands that consider the long
00:35:22 --> 00:35:25 game rather than short-term wins.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:31 So, okay, like you said, the early voting has started.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:39 How are the races for governor and otherwise other statewide shaping up from
00:35:39 --> 00:35:41 what you can assess? Yes.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:48 So many of our races, of course, are going to go into a runoff because there
00:35:48 --> 00:35:54 are way too many candidates for each side for the different races.
00:35:54 --> 00:35:59 So if you have all of these folks running, it is highly unlikely someone is
00:35:59 --> 00:36:05 going to get 50 plus 1% of the vote, right?
00:36:05 --> 00:36:08 50.1% of the votes. It's highly unlikely.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:15 So because of that, then we can anticipate going back to the polls in June for a runoff.
00:36:16 --> 00:36:19 And, you know, on the one hand,
00:36:19 --> 00:36:26 it's healthy for our form of government to go through these folks and to let
00:36:26 --> 00:36:30 them make the case for it and to talk to as many people as possible because
00:36:30 --> 00:36:32 that's what it's supposed to be about.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:36 On the other hand, you know, elections cost a lot of money.
00:36:37 --> 00:36:44 So these counties are spending tons and tons of money doing these elections.
00:36:44 --> 00:36:47 So if we have our primary,
00:36:47 --> 00:36:51 which we have going on right now, plus the runoff, plus the general election,
00:36:51 --> 00:36:56 and if there is a runoff in the general election, depending on if independent
00:36:56 --> 00:36:59 parties are on the general election ballot,
00:36:59 --> 00:37:04 then there's just a lot of money that's going on. To the election.
00:37:04 --> 00:37:06 So it'll be very interesting.
00:37:07 --> 00:37:14 There seems in some of the races seem to be enthusiasm for some of these statewide
00:37:14 --> 00:37:19 races that I don't think has happened before.
00:37:19 --> 00:37:24 So I'm thinking of like the Supreme Court, Georgia Supreme Court.
00:37:24 --> 00:37:27 I'm thinking of the Secretary of State.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:31 I'm thinking of Attorney General.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:39 Like those racists tend to have more interest from the Democratic side in particular
00:37:39 --> 00:37:41 to run against an incumbent Republican.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:47 Yeah, so I'm glad you brought up the Supreme Court race because,
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 you know, that's something that a lot of people are watching,
00:37:51 --> 00:37:56 especially with Jen Jordan and Miracle Rankin running.
00:37:57 --> 00:38:03 It's going to be interesting to see how they fare because this is their election.
00:38:03 --> 00:38:11 This is not a, you know, the winner of May 19th, they're going to be on the bench.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:15 It's but all the other folks have to go through
00:38:15 --> 00:38:17 that scenario you were talking about with the runoffs and all the
00:38:17 --> 00:38:20 way to november the way i'm looking at it
00:38:20 --> 00:38:29 on the democratic side it looks like keisha lance bottoms and jason estevez
00:38:29 --> 00:38:36 edging out duncan to for the runoff and on the republican side i think it's
00:38:36 --> 00:38:40 burt jones and rick jackson do you kind of feel that same way,
00:38:40 --> 00:38:45 or you think Duncan is doing better than what we're seeing?
00:38:46 --> 00:38:50 Duncan is doing better than, Duncan is doing better.
00:38:50 --> 00:38:59 I think that, so one of the questions I have to all the political strategists I know,
00:38:59 --> 00:39:07 to all of the political heads that I know, is you can win your primary.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:09 Do you win the general election?
00:39:10 --> 00:39:15 And the question for me is, or from me to everyone is.
00:39:17 --> 00:39:23 Are these folks on the Democratic side, are they able to win the general election?
00:39:23 --> 00:39:29 Because we've been winning primaries all day for 30 years.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:31 You've been winning primaries.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:36 How does that turn into a general election win?
00:39:36 --> 00:39:42 And if we are interested in just winning a primary, then okay.
00:39:42 --> 00:39:47 If you're interested in governing, then you need to win a general election.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:54 And so, you know, are we choosing people that are able to win a general election?
00:39:55 --> 00:40:03 I'm curious about that. In the primary, are we choosing people that we closely
00:40:03 --> 00:40:08 identify with, or are we choosing people that can win a general election?
00:40:08 --> 00:40:10 That's a hard decision to make.
00:40:11 --> 00:40:16 Well, you know, I don't, you know, most people are going to vote for people
00:40:16 --> 00:40:20 that they know or they feel comfortable with, you know,
00:40:20 --> 00:40:24 as George Bush would say, I don't think there's a whole lot of strategery in
00:40:24 --> 00:40:28 that, you know, but, you know,
00:40:28 --> 00:40:32 because that question came up when the two Stacys ran against each other a few years back.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:38 It was like, you know, a lot of people were like, yeah, we like Abrams,
00:40:38 --> 00:40:41 but maybe Evans has a better shot to win.
00:40:42 --> 00:40:47 But that goes back to your initial statement that if there are quality black
00:40:47 --> 00:40:54 candidates running, then we should believe that we're voting for somebody that
00:40:54 --> 00:40:55 can win in a general election.
00:40:56 --> 00:41:00 And, you know, people can make the argument that Jeff Duncan,
00:41:00 --> 00:41:05 you know, he's been a Republican statewide elected official.
00:41:06 --> 00:41:09 He's seen the light. He's coming over to the Democrats and all that.
00:41:11 --> 00:41:14 You know, people make the argument he's got a better shot to win.
00:41:14 --> 00:41:22 But if, you know, we believe that either Keisha Lance Bottoms or Jason Estevez
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 or any of the other folks running are better people,
00:41:25 --> 00:41:29 then we have to believe that if we vote for them, that they're going to be the
00:41:29 --> 00:41:32 next person to sit at the governor's mansion.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:40 So I don't know I mean I've I've dealt with that in Mississippi and yeah yeah it's just.
00:41:41 --> 00:41:44 I've I've heard all those arguments I just think that
00:41:44 --> 00:41:47 you know the beauty of the system is
00:41:47 --> 00:41:50 that people vote for who they like and who they believe
00:41:50 --> 00:41:53 in and you know you just
00:41:53 --> 00:41:55 just take your chance just like a Kentucky Derby you
00:41:55 --> 00:41:58 just take your chance I I wouldn't put my money on
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 golden tempo but I'm because of the
00:42:01 --> 00:42:05 history I'm glad Golden Tempo won but yeah
00:42:05 --> 00:42:08 it was like 30 to 1 odds so I wouldn't go vote I
00:42:08 --> 00:42:11 would support put my money on
00:42:11 --> 00:42:17 you know I was going with the the Renegade because I Renegade was like 6 to
00:42:17 --> 00:42:22 1 so I was like okay let's go with that so I think people people kind of look
00:42:22 --> 00:42:28 at it in that way you know they go they go go with their favorite and who they think can pull it off.
00:42:29 --> 00:42:35 So I always think people have that hope, you know, but, you know,
00:42:35 --> 00:42:37 and they don't try to get into the weeds like you and I would do.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:42 And yeah, we'll just see what happens. All right.
00:42:42 --> 00:42:48 So let me, let me, I want to ask you about one more race and then try to start closing it out.
00:42:49 --> 00:43:00 What is the impact of David Scott passing away on that Georgia 13 race? So the congressman had.
00:43:02 --> 00:43:11 Long history and resume and accomplishments that are and were needed for the time.
00:43:11 --> 00:43:19 And that was, you know, a tragic end to the timing, all of it,
00:43:20 --> 00:43:22 right? Him not being well.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:28 It was devastating to the district and devastating to the state of Georgia.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:32 I am It appeared
00:43:32 --> 00:43:35 to me that Excuse me
00:43:35 --> 00:43:38 Before his passing away That the
00:43:38 --> 00:43:42 race Looked to be competitive Before he
00:43:42 --> 00:43:46 passed away It seemed to be competitive And
00:43:46 --> 00:43:49 with His passing That
00:43:49 --> 00:43:52 has opened the door More for
00:43:52 --> 00:43:57 Perhaps the second Person to
00:43:57 --> 00:44:04 Pick a first place And maybe the third person To be the second person So it
00:44:04 --> 00:44:09 created I think it created more visibility for the race I also think it created
00:44:09 --> 00:44:15 some More aggressiveness By some of the candidates in that race To,
00:44:16 --> 00:44:20 Elbow their way to the top Of consideration for the voters.
00:44:22 --> 00:44:24 Yeah, that's where I think that went Thank you.
00:44:25 --> 00:44:32 Yeah, because I remember when Mark Baker ran, a lot of people felt that he was
00:44:32 --> 00:44:39 going to have a competitive race against David Scott because he was very progressive.
00:44:41 --> 00:44:48 Relatively young, and it just seemed like, and that was when that district was into Fulton County.
00:44:48 --> 00:44:51 He figured he was going to have a good showing in Fulton County,
00:44:51 --> 00:44:59 and then as it went on, You know, in Cobb and other places that it was,
00:45:00 --> 00:45:02 you know, he'd have a shot.
00:45:02 --> 00:45:05 And then when the numbers came out, he got beat 70-30.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:14 And everybody was like, really? So, you know, it's. Go ahead.
00:45:15 --> 00:45:23 Know why? The reason is because Georgia is not a progressive state. Georgia is moderate.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:29 It is a center state. And because it's a center state, then,
00:45:29 --> 00:45:36 you know, you could have pockets of progressive, progressive policies or progressiveness, right?
00:45:37 --> 00:45:41 You could have pockets of it, yet those pockets have to be, they're small and
00:45:41 --> 00:45:43 they're very strategic.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:51 You can't be, you know, all of that in the majority of this state.
00:45:51 --> 00:46:00 And sometimes one could argue the illusion of the city of Atlanta creates a
00:46:00 --> 00:46:05 thought that Georgia is more progressive than what it is. It is not.
00:46:05 --> 00:46:08 It's a very moderate state.
00:46:08 --> 00:46:12 Sometimes, depending on what that policy is, it could be center right.
00:46:12 --> 00:46:13 Sometimes it could be center left.
00:46:14 --> 00:46:19 Regardless, the thing that both of those have in common is center.
00:46:19 --> 00:46:29 And when you go too far to the left in some spaces, then the center will go
00:46:29 --> 00:46:31 toward the right, right?
00:46:31 --> 00:46:35 So you'll have pieces, pieces.
00:46:35 --> 00:46:46 And if candidates in Georgia only run or attempt to run, whether it is far left,
00:46:47 --> 00:46:50 then you will have conservatives,
00:46:51 --> 00:46:55 you will have MAGA to win in this state. The.
00:46:56 --> 00:47:02 It's not to say that you cannot be progressive. You have to fully appreciate
00:47:02 --> 00:47:09 that there are spaces in this state where people may go with you on some of
00:47:09 --> 00:47:10 those issues, yet overall,
00:47:11 --> 00:47:15 we are a center state. We are a center country.
00:47:15 --> 00:47:22 And if we think that everyone is thinking just like we do, or just like our
00:47:22 --> 00:47:25 small circle of people around us,
00:47:26 --> 00:47:35 then those that are on the left, even Democrats, will move toward the center
00:47:35 --> 00:47:36 or even toward the right.
00:47:37 --> 00:47:41 So I would like for candidates to consider that.
00:47:42 --> 00:47:46 That, you know, know your audience, know your state, know your district,
00:47:47 --> 00:47:53 that they are not as left as you think that they are. They are very center.
00:47:53 --> 00:48:01 And some of the policies that you champion, you know, climate is not a left issue.
00:48:02 --> 00:48:06 Climate is literally a center issue.
00:48:06 --> 00:48:11 And if you talk about climate from a center issue, if you talk about climate
00:48:11 --> 00:48:17 from a conservation standpoint, then you will get rural Georgia to go with you.
00:48:17 --> 00:48:25 You will get people below the fault line to agree with you because the climate impacts their crops.
00:48:25 --> 00:48:32 But if we're talking about climate as a far left issue, you are losing the very
00:48:32 --> 00:48:34 people that really agree with you.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:40 They just have a different way of describing and moving through this process.
00:48:40 --> 00:48:48 And if we don't change our language, which then perhaps could tweak our policies,
00:48:48 --> 00:48:55 then you're losing the very people that we then complain later about that are
00:48:55 --> 00:48:56 damaged by those policies.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:00 Well, it's because, you know, you didn't go talk to them, or maybe you didn't
00:49:00 --> 00:49:04 use the language that made sense to them. So we have to be, you know.
00:49:04 --> 00:49:09 Bilingual and trilingual in order to talk to these different audiences.
00:49:09 --> 00:49:13 Yeah. Yeah. Messaging is is is vital.
00:49:13 --> 00:49:17 So let's I got a couple more questions before before I let you go.
00:49:18 --> 00:49:22 Democrats in 2026 believe they will make significant gains in Congress.
00:49:23 --> 00:49:29 So on a scale, will it be a blue tsunami, a blue wave or a blue high tide?
00:49:31 --> 00:49:34 Going with high tide okay i'm gonna
00:49:34 --> 00:49:37 go with high tide yeah so you so when
00:49:37 --> 00:49:41 i so you don't think that the
00:49:41 --> 00:49:44 democrats will win the senate they'll just win the majority
00:49:44 --> 00:49:49 of the house and that'll be it that's that's what i would say is a high tide
00:49:49 --> 00:49:55 that's like the bare minimum okay the democrats a blue wave would be that the
00:49:55 --> 00:50:01 democrats get the house and barely get the majority in the senate And then a
00:50:01 --> 00:50:03 blue tsunami is like, you know,
00:50:05 --> 00:50:10 2006, where the Democrats just flipped it upside down and then took over the House and the Senate.
00:50:11 --> 00:50:16 But so you're thinking that the Democrats are going to go with the tsunami.
00:50:16 --> 00:50:20 Yeah, I'm going to go with the tsunami. OK, so you do think that nationwide
00:50:20 --> 00:50:23 the Democrats are going to be that successful.
00:50:24 --> 00:50:27 Yes. I think the Democrats will be that successful.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:37 The question is, what are they going to do January 20th, right?
00:50:37 --> 00:50:43 What are they going to do when they have the majority, when they have the gavel?
00:50:43 --> 00:50:48 How are they going to govern, right? And this will go back to,
00:50:48 --> 00:50:52 you know, that there'll be different factions within the Democratic Party.
00:50:52 --> 00:51:00 So are they going to be able to put some of their aggressiveness in terms of,
00:51:00 --> 00:51:03 like, wanting things for themselves individually?
00:51:03 --> 00:51:10 Are they going to be able to put those things aside and then move in a direction that makes sense?
00:51:10 --> 00:51:16 Or are they going to act like, you know, some of the Republicans have been doing
00:51:16 --> 00:51:18 and making it about them?
00:51:18 --> 00:51:23 And instead of looking at policies, it's very individualized.
00:51:23 --> 00:51:32 So that will be, to me, the determination of what will happen for the next two
00:51:32 --> 00:51:35 years until the 2028 presidential election.
00:51:35 --> 00:51:38 And I would caution all
00:51:38 --> 00:51:44 of us because we tend to do this way too often after especially midterm elections
00:51:44 --> 00:51:52 that we want voters in particular want to see this entirely new set of policies
00:51:52 --> 00:51:56 or an entirely new way of moving the country.
00:51:56 --> 00:52:02 Or, you know, all of these folks are going to want to see the president impeached
00:52:02 --> 00:52:06 and convicted and removed from office.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:11 And if that doesn't happen, then folks are feel let down and they're not going
00:52:11 --> 00:52:15 to vote in 2028, which is not going to make any sense.
00:52:16 --> 00:52:21 My question really is, you know, how are we as the electorate going to behave
00:52:21 --> 00:52:28 if you get these folks into office and if they're able to start repairing some
00:52:28 --> 00:52:30 of the this damage that has been done?
00:52:30 --> 00:52:37 Is that going to be enough for right now so that we can make long term changes again?
00:52:37 --> 00:52:41 Are we thinking long term or are we thinking short term?
00:52:41 --> 00:52:45 Yeah, that's that's that's really going to be the key.
00:52:46 --> 00:52:52 And like you said, that what we what the Democrats do in 2020,
00:52:52 --> 00:52:56 if they if they get both the House and the Senate,
00:52:56 --> 00:53:03 they have to set the T up so that because they're not going to get anything passed.
00:53:03 --> 00:53:08 I mean, they'll pass it, but, you know, the president is going to veto everything that they bring out.
00:53:09 --> 00:53:15 So the key is whether it's President Trump or somehow, some way,
00:53:15 --> 00:53:16 President Vance, right?
00:53:16 --> 00:53:23 And so then what they have, they have to do stuff in such a way where it's like
00:53:23 --> 00:53:27 they make the case that in 2028, okay, we need to have a Democratic president.
00:53:27 --> 00:53:32 All these ideas that we were pushing, we need to get a Democratic president there to make it happen.
00:53:33 --> 00:53:37 And like you said, if they if they go the route of just, you know,
00:53:37 --> 00:53:41 focusing their energy on just trying to get rid of President Trump or,
00:53:41 --> 00:53:44 you know, his whole cabinet or everything like that,
00:53:44 --> 00:53:48 then that might turn the American people off.
00:53:48 --> 00:53:52 And then you get a Republican president and still have a Democratic majority
00:53:52 --> 00:53:56 in the House and the Senate. You know, so it's like you said,
00:53:56 --> 00:53:58 it's going to have to be some gamesmanship in there.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:03 So let's let's let me let me go ahead and close it out because I appreciate
00:54:03 --> 00:54:05 the time that you've given me.
00:54:05 --> 00:54:09 Finish this sentence for me. I have hope because.
00:54:10 --> 00:54:11 I have hope because.
00:54:13 --> 00:54:17 Mother was born not being a full citizen in this country.
00:54:18 --> 00:54:26 I have hope because both of my grandmothers birthed all of their children before
00:54:26 --> 00:54:28 they became full citizens in this country.
00:54:29 --> 00:54:39 I have hope because I have been born with all the privileges that my foremothers,
00:54:40 --> 00:54:45 aunts and great aunts, dreamed of, and now I live freely with.
00:54:46 --> 00:54:51 Wow, that's deep. So, Doc, how can people get in touch with you?
00:54:51 --> 00:54:53 How can people reach out to you?
00:54:53 --> 00:54:59 Go ahead and tell people how they can contact you if they want some of that wisdom.
00:55:01 --> 00:55:06 Most people reach out to me on LinkedIn, and you're welcome to reach out to me on LinkedIn.
00:55:07 --> 00:55:13 I don't have all the other socials. I know that's an odd thing in this day and
00:55:13 --> 00:55:16 age, but LinkedIn is the best way to reach out to me.
00:55:18 --> 00:55:23 Well, all right. You know, other than enrolling at Georgia State, but look, Dr.
00:55:23 --> 00:55:27 I greatly appreciate you doing this.
00:55:27 --> 00:55:31 I'm glad that, you know, this is the time of year you're trying to close out
00:55:31 --> 00:55:33 everything. So I'm glad that we were able to get this in.
00:55:34 --> 00:55:38 And, you know, you know the rule because you've been on here multiple times
00:55:38 --> 00:55:42 now. So I'll just say I look forward to our next conversation.
00:55:43 --> 00:55:47 Thank you so much. All right, guys, and we're going to catch you all on the other side.
00:56:08 --> 00:56:12 Back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Les Leopold.
00:56:12 --> 00:56:17 After graduating from Oberlin College and Princeton University School of Public
00:56:17 --> 00:56:18 and International Affairs,
00:56:18 --> 00:56:22 Les Leopold co-founded and currently directs the Labor Institute,
00:56:22 --> 00:56:28 a nonprofit organization that designs research and educational programs on occupational
00:56:28 --> 00:56:31 safety and health, the environment and economics for unions,
00:56:32 --> 00:56:34 workers, and community organizations.
00:56:34 --> 00:56:42 In addition to Wall Street's war on workers, he is the author of Defiant German, Defiant Jew.
00:56:43 --> 00:56:48 Runaway Inequality, How to Make a Million Dollars an Hour, Why the Financial
00:56:48 --> 00:56:53 Elites Get Away with Siphoning Off America's Wealth, The Looting of America,
00:56:53 --> 00:56:57 How Wall Street's Game of Fantasy Finance Destroyed Our Jobs,
00:56:58 --> 00:57:03 pensions and prosperity, and what we can do about it, and The Man Who Hated
00:57:03 --> 00:57:08 Work and Loved Labor, The Life and Times of Tony Mazzucci.
00:57:09 --> 00:57:16 And now he's written another book, and that book is called The Billionaires
00:57:16 --> 00:57:19 Have Two Parties. We Need a Party of Our Own.
00:57:19 --> 00:57:24 And so we're going to discuss this new book as Les is making another appearance
00:57:24 --> 00:57:29 on this podcast. So ladies and gentlemen, It is my distinct honor and privilege
00:57:29 --> 00:57:34 to have again on this podcast, Les Leopold.
00:57:46 --> 00:57:49 Leopold. How are you doing, my friend? You doing good? Doing very well.
00:57:49 --> 00:57:52 Thank you very much. Well, glad to have you back.
00:57:52 --> 00:57:55 I see you're doing what you always do and writing some books.
00:57:56 --> 00:58:00 So you've written a new book called The Billionaires Have Two Parties.
00:58:00 --> 00:58:02 We Need a Party of Our Own.
00:58:02 --> 00:58:05 So we're going to get into a discussion of that.
00:58:06 --> 00:58:11 So normally how I like to do it is at least have you respond to a quote.
00:58:11 --> 00:58:13 So this is a quote I'm going to throw at you.
00:58:14 --> 00:58:18 Is nothing mysterious about the foundations of a healthy and strong democracy.
00:58:19 --> 00:58:26 The basic things expected by our people of their political and economic systems are simple.
00:58:26 --> 00:58:32 They are equality of opportunity for youth and for others, jobs for those who
00:58:32 --> 00:58:35 can work, security for those who need it,
00:58:35 --> 00:58:40 the ending of special privilege for the few, the preservation of civil liberties
00:58:40 --> 00:58:43 for all. How do you respond to that quote?
00:58:43 --> 00:58:50 Well, that's exactly what we need. That's what we deserve. Unfortunately, we don't have that.
00:58:50 --> 00:58:56 We have two political parties who created a system where they take care of the
00:58:56 --> 00:58:57 people who are better off.
00:58:57 --> 00:59:04 And they give lip service to jobs while people are struggling to maintain their
00:59:04 --> 00:59:10 employment. And I would point out that that is the number one problem in America is job insecurity.
00:59:11 --> 00:59:15 In this country, you cannot make it if you can't hold on to your job.
00:59:15 --> 00:59:19 And if you live someplace that doesn't have a gigantic, diverse economy,
00:59:19 --> 00:59:23 it's very, very hard on you if your factory goes down or your office closes.
00:59:24 --> 00:59:31 And that quote you just read is incredibly admirable because that's what we should aspire towards.
00:59:32 --> 00:59:36 And we need more than lip service from the two parties that care more about
00:59:36 --> 00:59:39 the wealthy than they do about the rest of us. Yeah.
00:59:40 --> 00:59:45 All right. Bruce Springsteen said, we're desperately in the need of an effective
00:59:45 --> 00:59:50 alternate party or for a Democratic Party to find someone who could speak to
00:59:50 --> 00:59:51 the majority of the nation.
00:59:52 --> 00:59:57 There is a problem with the language that they're using and the way they're trying to reach people.
00:59:57 --> 01:00:02 Why did you use this quote to set the tone for your book? The billionaires have
01:00:02 --> 01:00:04 two parties. We need a party of our own.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:12 It's funny, I was working on the book about the need for a new independent workers
01:00:12 --> 01:00:17 party when his quote came up, and I was actually surprised because he mostly
01:00:17 --> 01:00:20 runs around the country campaigning for the Democrats,
01:00:20 --> 01:00:26 and I think he's been incredibly frustrated by the inability of the Democratic
01:00:26 --> 01:00:30 Party or the Republican Party to actually speak to the needs and interests of working people.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:34 He's very good at doing that. I mean, he's probably one of the best performers
01:00:34 --> 01:00:39 in the country being able to really connect with a working class audience.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:43 Addition, I actually have had some connection with him over the years.
01:00:44 --> 01:00:49 I got involved in a plant closing struggle in his hometown, Freehold, New Jersey.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:54 And I went to visit him on behalf of the local union. And he agreed to support
01:00:54 --> 01:00:57 the campaign. And he bought an ad in the New York Times.
01:00:57 --> 01:01:01 And the president of that local, Stanley Fisher, has maintained a connection
01:01:01 --> 01:01:04 with Springsteen's office for years.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:08 We've actually asked him, this is a, we asked him to write a forward to the book.
01:01:09 --> 01:01:12 And he's interested. He's on tour right now.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:18 It may take a while, but since the book is produced on demand,
01:01:18 --> 01:01:23 as opposed to doing a large number of copies at once, we can add him at any point.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:31 But I think he's onto something. Look, the guy's always had a feel for where working people are.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:36 And he senses that there's just tremendous alienation, political alienation
01:01:36 --> 01:01:44 out there, and he knows it's dangerous to not have a political entity that working
01:01:44 --> 01:01:45 people can gravitate towards.
01:01:45 --> 01:01:48 I think it is very dangerous, and he senses what I sense.
01:01:49 --> 01:01:53 So I added him to the book at the beginning of the book because I was writing it already.
01:01:53 --> 01:01:58 I thought, okay, listen to the boss. He's got something to say about this. Yeah.
01:01:59 --> 01:02:02 Does the recent Supreme Court ruling, Louisiana v.
01:02:03 --> 01:02:08 Callais, strengthen your argument that there needs to be another viable political
01:02:08 --> 01:02:09 party in American politics?
01:02:11 --> 01:02:14 Well, I think it reflects the problem,
01:02:15 --> 01:02:21 problem is not worrying about districts that are purple or blue.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:30 It's worrying about the 130 congressional districts that the Republicans win by 25% or more.
01:02:31 --> 01:02:35 The Democratic Party in those districts are basically dead.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:40 So no matter how you redistrict in Louisiana or elsewhere, we're still going
01:02:40 --> 01:02:46 to have the problem of these incredibly red districts all across the country. So what do you do there?
01:02:48 --> 01:02:52 I don't think you can rebuild the Democratic Party in those areas.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:56 I think their brand, and we've done some survey polling on this,
01:02:56 --> 01:03:00 the brand is so tarnished that you can't rebuild it. So you have to build something new.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:08 And Dan Osborne, for example, in Nebraska is an example of someone building something new.
01:03:08 --> 01:03:12 He's running as a working class independent, independent of both parties.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:16 He stands a chance to win the senatorial race there. next fall.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:21 But I'm worried about how do people have a voice in these one-party congressional
01:03:21 --> 01:03:23 districts all across the country?
01:03:23 --> 01:03:29 And we think that building a new entity, a working-class entity on a very strong,
01:03:29 --> 01:03:34 progressive, economic populist platform would sell there. And it would change
01:03:34 --> 01:03:35 the dynamic of the country.
01:03:36 --> 01:03:41 Look, that beautiful quote you read at the beginning is going to be turned into
01:03:41 --> 01:03:47 fiction if we don't deal with this incredible polarization that goes on in the country, right?
01:03:47 --> 01:03:52 The big cities and the coasts are blue and the rest of the country is red.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:57 As soon as the polls close on election night, you know, these rural districts
01:03:57 --> 01:03:58 go red in about five seconds.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:04 Healthy. And a lot of these areas have working-class constituents.
01:04:05 --> 01:04:09 Former union people, union people, their families that were once progressive
01:04:09 --> 01:04:13 areas in the Great Plains states and all over.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:18 And we need to reach out to these people. They need to have a chance to express
01:04:18 --> 01:04:21 themselves politically, and they don't have a chance right now.
01:04:22 --> 01:04:26 Look, it's a tall, tall struggle. The mishmash about all this gerrymandering
01:04:26 --> 01:04:28 is only going to make it worse.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:32 But we have to build something, just like Springsteen said, we've got to be
01:04:32 --> 01:04:37 able to speak to these folks and have these folks speak for themselves.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:42 They need a political entity of and by and for themselves where they can actually
01:04:42 --> 01:04:47 have a role in our political system.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:53 Right now, they're dropping out or they're throwing a vote for MAGA or something,
01:04:53 --> 01:04:56 but really most of them are just kind of dropping out. They've given up hope.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:03 They see that most of the politicians in Congress are rich people who don't
01:05:03 --> 01:05:05 reflect their point of view.
01:05:05 --> 01:05:09 And by the way, our surveys show that these people are not Neanderthals,
01:05:09 --> 01:05:16 even on social issues, that there's been a tremendous liberal increase amongst
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 white working class people all over the country on issues like gay marriage,
01:05:19 --> 01:05:21 on issues like immigration.
01:05:21 --> 01:05:27 There's been a really liberal trend, but that's not their main issue, right?
01:05:27 --> 01:05:29 Their main issue is how do you survive economically?
01:05:30 --> 01:05:34 And just the image that comes to mind, it just happened in Nebraska.
01:05:35 --> 01:05:39 Tyson Foods shut down a facility in I believe it's called Lexington, Nebraska.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:47 Town of 10 people. 3 jobs are going to disappear in a town of 10 people.
01:05:48 --> 01:05:53 They go? What do they do? I mean, that's absolute devastation.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:59 And I believe, as your opening quote said, and working people believe this,
01:05:59 --> 01:06:03 that everyone who's able to work should have a right to a job at a livable wage.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:07 And if the private sector can't provide it, then the public sector needs to provide it.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:11 You can't have people, able-bodied people, without employment.
01:06:11 --> 01:06:13 That just won't work in our society.
01:06:14 --> 01:06:21 And we have found that working people very much want some modicum of job security.
01:06:21 --> 01:06:23 They want to work, but they can't work.
01:06:24 --> 01:06:30 Where are they going to find a job in Lexington after 3 jobs go down in a town of 10?
01:06:30 --> 01:06:36 Anyway, there's a frustration, an anger, a disappointment that's out there.
01:06:36 --> 01:06:41 We need to have a space where this can be discussed. And I think a new political
01:06:41 --> 01:06:43 entity is the place to do it.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:50 Well, you asked this question in the book. So besides what you just said about
01:06:50 --> 01:06:53 job security, what do working people want? Yeah.
01:06:54 --> 01:06:55 Well, it's interesting.
01:06:58 --> 01:07:04 In the survey we did of 3 voters in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin,
01:07:04 --> 01:07:08 and Michigan, the old Rust Belt, basically.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:11 Although people who live there don't want me to call it the Rust Belt.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:13 They get PO'd at me when I do that.
01:07:14 --> 01:07:16 But it's hard to keep saying those names again and again.
01:07:17 --> 01:07:22 The former Blue Wall states or whatever. So we did 3 voters.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:27 And there was some space at the end of the survey. And I threw in this question.
01:07:27 --> 01:07:34 I said, would you support a new independent political entity called the Independent
01:07:34 --> 01:07:36 Workers Political Association,
01:07:36 --> 01:07:40 independent of the two political parties that would run independent candidates
01:07:40 --> 01:07:45 on just four issues? And here were the four issues.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:50 One was the right to a job, a livable wage, if the private sector can't provide
01:07:50 --> 01:07:53 it, the public sector shall. a very radical proposal.
01:07:53 --> 01:07:59 Number two, any corporation, large corporation that gets government money cannot
01:07:59 --> 01:08:01 conduct compulsory layoffs.
01:08:01 --> 01:08:05 All layoffs will have to be voluntary based on financial packages,
01:08:05 --> 01:08:08 the way they do it for white collar employees and executives.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:14 That was the second one. The third was raise the minimum wage to a livable wage.
01:08:14 --> 01:08:17 And the fourth plank was stop price gouging at pharmaceutical companies and
01:08:17 --> 01:08:19 food companies. That was it.
01:08:19 --> 01:08:26 So I took bets with my colleagues. What percent of people would actually support this?
01:08:26 --> 01:08:33 I thought it would be about 20%. It came back at 57%. Eric, think about that.
01:08:34 --> 01:08:39 And this is an entity that they never heard of that doesn't even exist, right?
01:08:39 --> 01:08:47 57%. And if you looked at it by age, those 30 and under supported it 70%.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:55 So, people are ready for a very strong, forward-looking, progressive economic
01:08:55 --> 01:08:59 platform that protects their jobs, their livelihoods.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:07 Affordability is not enough. It has to be affordability plus real job security
01:09:07 --> 01:09:11 or alternative jobs if a plant goes under.
01:09:12 --> 01:09:16 So people are ready for that. And we surveyed that in a variety of different ways.
01:09:16 --> 01:09:21 And these, I mean, I was stunned that people gravitated toward this very new
01:09:21 --> 01:09:26 entity with a radical, basically a radical progressive populist proposal. People are ready.
01:09:27 --> 01:09:30 And I say this to my progressive friends.
01:09:32 --> 01:09:36 These people out there are more progressive than we are.
01:09:36 --> 01:09:40 You know, we're still fumbling around, you know, around the edges and don't
01:09:40 --> 01:09:43 want to sound like, you know, trying to be influential with the Democrats and
01:09:43 --> 01:09:45 the mainstream, et cetera, et cetera.
01:09:45 --> 01:09:49 We're trying to curb our sales. They're saying, no, no, no, no.
01:09:49 --> 01:09:55 We really need a strong, forward-looking, progressive platform and a new political
01:09:55 --> 01:09:57 entity. Blew my mind. That's why I wrote the book.
01:09:58 --> 01:10:05 I said, this story has got to get out. So what's the challenge of making this
01:10:05 --> 01:10:08 fictitious party a reality?
01:10:09 --> 01:10:15 That is the most important and I think provocative question, actually.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:20 It's going to be difficult. And I have to play a different role than what it's
01:10:20 --> 01:10:21 going to need to get it off the ground.
01:10:21 --> 01:10:27 It needs an anchor tenant. and an anchor tenant to me means a large influential
01:10:27 --> 01:10:32 union like the United Dollar Workers or the Teamsters or communication workers
01:10:32 --> 01:10:36 or a bunch of them coming together. We're a long way from that.
01:10:36 --> 01:10:42 Right now, they are so overwhelmed by collective bargaining issues and organizing,
01:10:42 --> 01:10:47 et cetera, that they can't imagine getting involved in anything other than, you know.
01:10:48 --> 01:10:52 The Democratic Party towards a labor direction. But that's what we're going to need.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:59 In the meantime, however, groups like ours can do education, national education.
01:10:59 --> 01:11:05 And the model that I'm looking at is something that was set up in 1947 by A.
01:11:05 --> 01:11:11 Philip Randolph and Walter Ruther from the United Auto Workers and A.
01:11:11 --> 01:11:13 Philip Randolph from Sleepy Car Porters Union.
01:11:14 --> 01:11:18 And they were very prominent and popular figures. They held a meeting in New
01:11:18 --> 01:11:21 York, and they brought 100 people together.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:24 A third were labor leaders, a third were civil rights leaders,
01:11:24 --> 01:11:28 and the third were kind of these alternative parties like the Minnesota Farm, Labor, et cetera.
01:11:28 --> 01:11:33 And they set up a new entity called the National Education Campaign for Independent Politics.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:40 And they gave it the equivalent of about $700 to run, in today's money,
01:11:40 --> 01:11:43 to run conferences, write booklets, pamphlets, books, et cetera.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:47 And it existed for about two strong years.
01:11:47 --> 01:11:54 And then Cold War got very intense and the unions started having problems that
01:11:54 --> 01:11:58 felt that they just didn't have the space for it, but it was a great idea.
01:11:58 --> 01:12:02 And that's something I think a group like ours can propagate.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:05 And this book is kind of the first step.
01:12:05 --> 01:12:12 So I'm hoping in the next month or so to inaugurate a national Workers' Education
01:12:12 --> 01:12:13 Committee for Independent Politics,
01:12:13 --> 01:12:19 and to begin looking for places to do workshops and talks like this,
01:12:19 --> 01:12:23 to promote not just the book, but to promote the campaign.
01:12:23 --> 01:12:27 And by the way, all the money that we get in royalties, should there be any,
01:12:27 --> 01:12:28 will go into the campaign.
01:12:28 --> 01:12:33 So I'm going to work on the educational front and hopefully light a fire under
01:12:33 --> 01:12:35 some of these labor unions and
01:12:35 --> 01:12:38 community organizations that have large memberships They say, hey, look,
01:12:38 --> 01:12:40 why don't you try something in
01:12:40 --> 01:12:45 these places where the Democratic Party has given up, like West Virginia?
01:12:47 --> 01:12:50 Here, if you allow me. West Virginia used to be a democratic state.
01:12:51 --> 01:12:55 I looked at this one little county that had lost the most coal jobs of any county
01:12:55 --> 01:12:58 in the country, Mingo County, West Virginia.
01:12:58 --> 01:13:05 It gave Bill Clinton 70% of its vote, 70%. And so did West Virginia,
01:13:05 --> 01:13:08 a large majority to Clinton.
01:13:09 --> 01:13:13 Year by year by year, as those coal jobs disappeared, this little county of
01:13:13 --> 01:13:16 30 people lost 3 cold jobs out of 3.
01:13:17 --> 01:13:20 The Democratic vote went down, down, down, down, down.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:27 Barack Obama got 44%. Joe Biden got 13%.
01:13:27 --> 01:13:32 Kamala Harris got 12%. I mean, and in that state as a whole,
01:13:32 --> 01:13:39 out of the 130 some state offices, the Democrats have 16.
01:13:39 --> 01:13:42 And in 40 of those areas, they don't run a candidate at all.
01:13:43 --> 01:13:46 So places like West Virginia are wide open.
01:13:46 --> 01:13:50 It's a working class state. It's not a state of rich people.
01:13:50 --> 01:13:53 It's open for something new, but I can't create something new.
01:13:53 --> 01:13:58 I can't really answer your question, but I can create the educational frameworks
01:13:58 --> 01:14:03 and discussions that allow, I think, for people to consider that option.
01:14:04 --> 01:14:08 It's not going to happen overnight. Sometimes things do happen overnight,
01:14:08 --> 01:14:13 but I think it's going to take some anchor tenants, people that have large constituencies,
01:14:14 --> 01:14:17 as opposed to little nonprofits like ours. Yeah.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:26 90 years ago, FDR said we know now that government by organized money is just
01:14:26 --> 01:14:29 as dangerous as government by organized mob.
01:14:29 --> 01:14:34 If that's the case, then why are we still dealing with government by organized money today?
01:14:35 --> 01:14:41 Well, that is quite a story to be told there.
01:14:41 --> 01:14:46 The short answer is organized money has bought both parties.
01:14:46 --> 01:14:51 The most important primary that takes place in each party is called the money
01:14:51 --> 01:14:56 primary, where the wealthy donors basically decide which candidates are going
01:14:56 --> 01:14:57 to throw their money behind.
01:14:58 --> 01:15:04 And I mean, I was stunned that Kamala Harris went out of her way to go to Wall
01:15:04 --> 01:15:08 Street to meet with, you know, 40 rich executives during her campaign.
01:15:08 --> 01:15:11 At the beginning of her campaign, you would think she'd want to go to kind of,
01:15:11 --> 01:15:15 you know, working-class Michigan or something to start her campaign. Why go to Wall Street?
01:15:15 --> 01:15:22 Because they have, because of Citizens United, they can give basically unlimited amounts of money.
01:15:22 --> 01:15:27 So we've let the government, the political offices, in a sense,
01:15:27 --> 01:15:30 go to the highest bidder. Not always, but most of the time.
01:15:31 --> 01:15:38 I think it's something like 3% of Congress people come from working-class backgrounds,
01:15:38 --> 01:15:42 and the rest are well off.
01:15:42 --> 01:15:45 So we've let it get out of control. Roosevelt was right.
01:15:46 --> 01:15:51 Roosevelt also said virtually what you said in your opening quote about people
01:15:51 --> 01:15:53 free from hunger, free from what?
01:15:54 --> 01:15:59 People basically had the right to a job. And he went out of his way to create them.
01:16:00 --> 01:16:02 You can see the change.
01:16:04 --> 01:16:09 Actually right around the Clinton administration, the era of big government is over.
01:16:10 --> 01:16:15 That marked, they made a conscious decision. And I know some of these people,
01:16:15 --> 01:16:19 they made a conscious decision that they were going to compete for the wealthy.
01:16:19 --> 01:16:21 They weren't going to just leave the wealthy in the Republican party.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:26 And the whole deregulation of finance was a way to appeal and appease the.
01:16:27 --> 01:16:33 On Wall Street. And what they gave up on was the actual creation of jobs when people were in need.
01:16:34 --> 01:16:40 You know, even Jimmy Carter in 1978, and this was after the whole, you know,
01:16:40 --> 01:16:44 fiscal crisis in New York City, and there was a recession going on,
01:16:44 --> 01:16:51 he created a supported legislation that created 780 public sector jobs.
01:16:52 --> 01:16:55 780. Has anybody done anything like that?
01:16:55 --> 01:16:59 I mean, shouldn't we have done something like that in Appalachia when all those
01:16:59 --> 01:17:01 coal jobs were disappearing?
01:17:01 --> 01:17:03 How can we let those people just hang out there with nothing?
01:17:03 --> 01:17:07 You don't have replaced those coal jobs in that little county, Mingo County.
01:17:08 --> 01:17:11 This is like, it makes you want to cry or scream.
01:17:12 --> 01:17:19 Opioids. Two drug stores set up opioid, basically opioid prescription mills.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:24 And they put out more prescriptions than the largest drugstores in any of the
01:17:24 --> 01:17:25 big cities across the country.
01:17:25 --> 01:17:30 There were cars lined up from a five-state area to pick up their opioid prescriptions.
01:17:30 --> 01:17:32 That was the replacement for cold jobs.
01:17:32 --> 01:17:36 You imagine how people feel about politics when they see that's what's going
01:17:36 --> 01:17:42 on around them, that they become basically a drugstore for opioids.
01:17:42 --> 01:17:44 So yeah, there's a...
01:17:45 --> 01:17:51 There's a big vacuum to be filled. And right now we're not challenging the two
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54 billionaire parties and they're going to get to get, the billionaires are going
01:17:54 --> 01:17:56 to get away with controlling both of them.
01:17:56 --> 01:18:02 So in the book, you said that Obama was no FDR kind of expound on that.
01:18:03 --> 01:18:07 It's really interesting. When Obama came into office, I was a big fan of his.
01:18:08 --> 01:18:11 I thought, geez, I wonder if I could become one of his speechwriters or something.
01:18:11 --> 01:18:13 You know, I was arrogant at the time, I guess.
01:18:14 --> 01:18:21 But what happened was he faced the same crisis in a way that FDR faced.
01:18:22 --> 01:18:26 And he knew that he had the power to tame Wall Street.
01:18:26 --> 01:18:30 But his advisors, he happened to take in a lot of Wall Street-oriented advisors.
01:18:30 --> 01:18:34 And they said, no, no, you can't do that. You can't put any of these guys in jail.
01:18:34 --> 01:18:37 You have to support them.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:44 And he ended up supporting the revitalization of Wall Street at the expense of Main Street.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:49 Way that I think even he, I'm sure, does not feel great about.
01:18:49 --> 01:18:55 And then he fell into the trap of austerity where he was starting to negotiate
01:18:55 --> 01:19:00 with the Republicans to cut back the federal deficit again at the expense of Main Street.
01:19:00 --> 01:19:06 And then he made the final mistake, I believe, by supporting another free trade
01:19:06 --> 01:19:10 agreement, the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Trade Agreement, and working people hate
01:19:10 --> 01:19:11 these trade agreements.
01:19:12 --> 01:19:17 So he kind of, he had all the potential, I think, to be the next FDR.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:21 He had the charisma. He had the, he had the smarts for sure.
01:19:22 --> 01:19:27 And, and he had great instincts, but he, the only thing that he,
01:19:27 --> 01:19:33 you know, he, he really tried hard on the, you know, with the Obamacare and
01:19:33 --> 01:19:35 I'm sure he wanted to do more than that.
01:19:35 --> 01:19:40 But when it came to taking on, you know, the big boys, he kind of blinked.
01:19:40 --> 01:19:43 And working people turned on
01:19:43 --> 01:19:47 him, which was a shame, because we see what's happened in his aftermath.
01:19:48 --> 01:19:50 Yeah. So...
01:19:51 --> 01:19:55 Kind of leads into this perception, right?
01:19:55 --> 01:19:59 So you make the claim that working people, and you stated it earlier,
01:19:59 --> 01:20:03 are far less racist and sexist than they were in 1968.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:12 Now, as a Black man that grew up in a Union city in Chicago and has spent most
01:20:12 --> 01:20:14 of his adult life in the South,
01:20:14 --> 01:20:18 my lens would think that that's kind of a low bar because it's like,
01:20:18 --> 01:20:22 I've dealt with people in Mississippi and Georgia and I'm like,
01:20:23 --> 01:20:25 yeah, they're not as bad as they were when Dr.
01:20:25 --> 01:20:29 King was walking around, but they still got a long way to go.
01:20:30 --> 01:20:35 Kind of talk to me about why that's important for not just Democrats,
01:20:36 --> 01:20:37 but any politician to pick up on.
01:20:38 --> 01:20:41 Well, I see what you see.
01:20:41 --> 01:20:46 I'm not a black man, But I certainly understand that, you know,
01:20:46 --> 01:20:49 we're not living in nirvana when it comes to race relations at all.
01:20:50 --> 01:20:55 But the one thing, the one tragedy we're facing is slowing down.
01:20:56 --> 01:21:04 To get over that hump, to raise the bar from the low bar that you just described, are trade unions.
01:21:04 --> 01:21:10 It's the one place where solidarity is key.
01:21:10 --> 01:21:13 You can't hold your union together if you don't have solidarity,
01:21:13 --> 01:21:18 and you cannot allow discrimination of any kind. You just can't.
01:21:18 --> 01:21:22 Solidarity does not mean bringing together everybody that agrees with each other.
01:21:23 --> 01:21:25 It's bringing together people that don't agree with each other.
01:21:25 --> 01:21:30 And what happens is when trade unions are functioning properly,
01:21:31 --> 01:21:35 especially in this kind of environment, they have an anti-discrimination clause
01:21:35 --> 01:21:36 that they put in every contract.
01:21:37 --> 01:21:40 And people actually have to work together.
01:21:41 --> 01:21:46 My wife teaches, there's this interesting program, a college program in New
01:21:46 --> 01:21:49 York with IBEW electrical workers.
01:21:49 --> 01:21:52 The apprentices have 900 of them a
01:21:52 --> 01:21:55 year have to go through they have to get a two-year college degree to
01:21:55 --> 01:21:58 become a journeyman so this program 30
01:21:58 --> 01:22:01 years ago was lily white you know
01:22:01 --> 01:22:04 it was building trades and these are good jobs electrical
01:22:04 --> 01:22:12 you know big skyscraper type electrical work well her classes now are 30 40
01:22:12 --> 01:22:18 percent people of color gay lesbian trans all kinds of people now are in that
01:22:18 --> 01:22:21 are flocking into that union. That changes.
01:22:21 --> 01:22:26 It doesn't, you know, racism and sexism has not gone away, but it changes the
01:22:26 --> 01:22:31 power dynamics because now you've got the union non-discriminatory clause that's.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:35 Favor. You know, if you get pushed around as a woman in these jobs,
01:22:35 --> 01:22:38 the person pushing you around could lose their job.
01:22:38 --> 01:22:42 The union might just throw them out because they can't tolerate this anymore.
01:22:43 --> 01:22:47 So one of the keys to raising that bar, I think, is the expansion of labor unions.
01:22:47 --> 01:22:51 Right now, that's very difficult to do. And it's not going to happen.
01:22:51 --> 01:22:54 The two parties have to be pressed.
01:22:55 --> 01:22:58 Another reason to have an independent political formation is to try to push
01:22:58 --> 01:23:03 for a change in the labor law, and also encourage people to get involved in
01:23:03 --> 01:23:08 unionization, which I think moves us closer to,
01:23:08 --> 01:23:11 a step closer to the promised land.
01:23:11 --> 01:23:16 And I'm convinced that people working side by side, once you,
01:23:16 --> 01:23:20 the whole problem, I think, with racism and sexism is when you really don't
01:23:20 --> 01:23:26 know, especially racism, when you don't know the other, the person is foreign to you.
01:23:26 --> 01:23:29 So you have all these images in your head about what they are like.
01:23:30 --> 01:23:33 You have to work next to somebody on a skyscraper.
01:23:33 --> 01:23:39 You know in a hurry, the color of the skin is the last thing that you're worried about.
01:23:39 --> 01:23:42 There's a whole bunch of other things that you have to work together on.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:47 So I don't know. This is a period where I guess I should be pessimistic.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:52 But actually, I think there are opportunities, really good ones.
01:23:52 --> 01:23:56 But we have to break out of the box. We've got to break out of the two-party.
01:23:57 --> 01:24:00 Doom loop, as Dan Osborne calls it in Nebraska.
01:24:00 --> 01:24:04 And we have to be able to think outside the box, try some new things, see what catches on.
01:24:05 --> 01:24:10 But most important, give working people a chance to say what it is they want
01:24:10 --> 01:24:11 and how they want to get it.
01:24:11 --> 01:24:16 You know, we've done these workshops all over the country. The last iteration was called...
01:24:18 --> 01:24:21 Inequality or reversing runaway inequality. And at the end of these workshops,
01:24:22 --> 01:24:24 it's all about financialization and all this kind of stuff.
01:24:24 --> 01:24:28 And it's taught by workers themselves using a non-lecture method.
01:24:28 --> 01:24:32 One of the activities at the end is each group, each small group of four or
01:24:32 --> 01:24:37 five people, we give them a big sheet of paper and we say, draw your community
01:24:37 --> 01:24:39 or your world without runaway inequality.
01:24:39 --> 01:24:44 And you should see the pictures that they come up with. I mean, it's really good stuff.
01:24:44 --> 01:24:51 It's environmentally sound, pro-education, pro-employment, non-discriminatory,
01:24:51 --> 01:24:54 really good stuff. But nobody ever asked them.
01:24:55 --> 01:25:00 And I'm determined to ask the question. I'm determined to have this book help
01:25:00 --> 01:25:03 open up a discussion that it seems people are kind of fearful of having.
01:25:04 --> 01:25:10 Yeah. You know, because when listening to you, two things always come to mind.
01:25:10 --> 01:25:17 I remember, I think it was NBC did a piece when Tom Brokaw was there about a
01:25:17 --> 01:25:23 town that's outside of Austin, where it was like, you know, you had this very diverse community.
01:25:24 --> 01:25:27 And, you know, they were talking about like the captain of the football team
01:25:27 --> 01:25:32 was, was, was, was black and homecoming queen was Asian.
01:25:33 --> 01:25:37 And they had like this town picnic that had zero crime, but all of them were
01:25:37 --> 01:25:40 working and all of them were working in, in high tech jobs. Right.
01:25:41 --> 01:25:48 And they were, you know, so they, they had a higher median income than even the city of Austin.
01:25:49 --> 01:25:53 But they just all flocked to this one particular suburb and,
01:25:53 --> 01:25:56 and everything was pretty cool. And then I thought about.
01:25:57 --> 01:26:02 Know, the story about the coal miners in Huntsville and how the white coal miners
01:26:02 --> 01:26:06 stood up for the black coal miners who were getting underpaid.
01:26:07 --> 01:26:10 Once they realized they were being underpaid, and they just kind of said,
01:26:10 --> 01:26:14 well, we're all going to quit if you don't pay them.
01:26:14 --> 01:26:17 And that kind of got those coal miners organized up there.
01:26:18 --> 01:26:24 So there are instances in history that talk about what you were able to pull
01:26:24 --> 01:26:27 out of the surveys, you know, recently.
01:26:27 --> 01:26:32 And it, you know, it just seems like to me, and one of the things I've been
01:26:32 --> 01:26:36 stressing on a podcast is what we call real American leadership, right?
01:26:36 --> 01:26:42 And that really sounds like, you know, the spirit of what I'm trying to get
01:26:42 --> 01:26:50 across and trying to get my listeners and other people to fall into and understand that.
01:26:52 --> 01:26:56 We can do this together, but if we keep trying to stay in these silos,
01:26:56 --> 01:26:58 we're all going to suffer.
01:26:58 --> 01:27:03 And, you know, so I was real excited reading your book about that.
01:27:03 --> 01:27:05 Really, it was really, really optimistic.
01:27:06 --> 01:27:11 A couple more questions. Why is it hard to persuade Democratic Party leaders
01:27:11 --> 01:27:13 that progressive populism is very popular?
01:27:14 --> 01:27:18 Well, I think you kind of hinted at that before.
01:27:18 --> 01:27:26 They really don't believe in progressive populism. If you're a wealthy person or you want to become,
01:27:26 --> 01:27:30 you're a politician and you really want to become wealthier,
01:27:30 --> 01:27:37 you've absorbed what I call the capital-centered view of the world,
01:27:37 --> 01:27:44 that becoming a billionaire is a good thing because those people invest in America
01:27:44 --> 01:27:48 and that leads to more jobs and that trickles down to everybody else.
01:27:48 --> 01:27:53 They won't use the word trickle down, but they really, they adopted the capital
01:27:53 --> 01:28:00 centric view of the world and they've rejected the people centric view,
01:28:00 --> 01:28:04 which is what you've been talking about. The people centric view is say, look, you got it.
01:28:04 --> 01:28:09 What comes first is providing people with jobs, livelihood, education, health care.
01:28:10 --> 01:28:12 That's what life is about.
01:28:13 --> 01:28:16 And you don't have to worry about capital centric.
01:28:16 --> 01:28:18 They'll take care of themselves. But the people in office, the reason they're
01:28:18 --> 01:28:24 rejecting this people-first model, the progressive populist model,
01:28:24 --> 01:28:28 they don't really believe in it. They believe in...
01:28:29 --> 01:28:33 If you look at the lobbyists, the consultants, the pollsters,
01:28:33 --> 01:28:42 and the politicians, and the donors, they kind of agree on the way things run is pretty good.
01:28:42 --> 01:28:45 Yeah, it's got some problems here and there, but basically it's sound.
01:28:46 --> 01:28:52 And they just have no patience for understanding this incredible job dislocation
01:28:52 --> 01:28:57 that takes place. Millions upon millions of people have to lose their livelihoods.
01:28:57 --> 01:28:59 They're scrambling to find the next job.
01:28:59 --> 01:29:03 They have no, you know, let them become gig workers. Let them,
01:29:03 --> 01:29:04 you know, drive for Uber.
01:29:05 --> 01:29:12 It's not like they consciously put them down. It's just that they're enamored by the world of wealth.
01:29:13 --> 01:29:17 You know, it's really, it's really, you know, it's the ultimate aphrodisiac.
01:29:17 --> 01:29:20 Wow, I could become wealthy. I could become powerful.
01:29:20 --> 01:29:23 Why not? and that becomes the center of your life.
01:29:24 --> 01:29:28 Yeah. What do you want readers of the book to take away from it?
01:29:29 --> 01:29:34 Hope. Hope. I'd like them to walk away saying, you know what?
01:29:34 --> 01:29:38 We can do something different. We can try to do something different.
01:29:38 --> 01:29:42 It's not that we don't have to ultimately despair and give up.
01:29:42 --> 01:29:46 My hope is that working people can develop their own political voice,
01:29:46 --> 01:29:48 their own political entity.
01:29:48 --> 01:29:54 And I would really like to reach those who are most alienated from politics right now.
01:29:55 --> 01:30:01 And say, hey, there's another way. So, yeah, if I can make people feel like
01:30:01 --> 01:30:05 there are possibilities, I will have done my job.
01:30:05 --> 01:30:09 Well, and that's a good way to end an interview because I've been asking people
01:30:09 --> 01:30:15 this year to finish the sentence, I have hope because.
01:30:15 --> 01:30:19 But I think you just you just spelled it out that it's like,
01:30:19 --> 01:30:25 you know, just having hope and that people will believe that there is something else out there.
01:30:25 --> 01:30:32 And your book is one example of another way that we can we can reach some,
01:30:32 --> 01:30:39 I guess, some some political hope and some political stability,
01:30:40 --> 01:30:41 leadership, whatever.
01:30:41 --> 01:30:43 I, you know, I get it.
01:30:44 --> 01:30:50 I just, you know, I want to see that world happen. I want to see that America happen.
01:30:52 --> 01:30:56 And as long as you're out there, Les, and your folks at the Labor Institute
01:30:56 --> 01:30:59 doing the work, then we got a good shot at it.
01:30:59 --> 01:31:03 So thank you, man, for writing a book and thank you for coming on.
01:31:03 --> 01:31:07 How can people get this book and how can people reach out to you all?
01:31:08 --> 01:31:14 So you can get the books, obviously, you can get it on Amazon or any of the online sellers.
01:31:14 --> 01:31:17 You can order it at any bookstore anywhere right now.
01:31:18 --> 01:31:20 It may not be sitting out there for you, but just say that you want,
01:31:20 --> 01:31:23 you know, billionaires have two parties.
01:31:23 --> 01:31:27 That's all you have to remember, or party of our own, and they'll find it for you.
01:31:28 --> 01:31:32 I hate to say this, but Amazon is actually probably the best way to help me promote the book.
01:31:32 --> 01:31:36 That turns to be the center of the universe right now for book promotion.
01:31:36 --> 01:31:42 And then, look, once you get it and read it, you can write a little review on
01:31:42 --> 01:31:44 Amazon or Goodreads or anyplace else.
01:31:44 --> 01:31:47 It doesn't have to be long. And if it's critical, that's okay, too.
01:31:47 --> 01:31:52 I'm not afraid of criticism. If you want to reach, I write a sub stack every
01:31:52 --> 01:31:55 week, Leslie Uphold at sub stack. You can get me there.
01:31:55 --> 01:31:58 And you can get me at Leslie Uphold at AOL.com.
01:31:58 --> 01:32:05 I answer all my emails sooner or later. and I'm open to comments and criticism
01:32:05 --> 01:32:08 because that's what this whole dialogue is about.
01:32:09 --> 01:32:14 And my hope also is extended by programs like Eric's. I mean,
01:32:14 --> 01:32:16 this is a really positive endeavor.
01:32:17 --> 01:32:20 Unfortunately, I have to book it a year in advance, but that's,
01:32:20 --> 01:32:24 I would raise my hand to get on for next year.
01:32:25 --> 01:32:29 Anyway, I really appreciate the opportunity. And if people listening can help
01:32:29 --> 01:32:32 support the book and move it forward, like I said, All the money goes back into
01:32:32 --> 01:32:35 the education campaign, hopefully a virtuous cycle.
01:32:36 --> 01:32:41 Well, you have taken advantage of the rules, so you know how it goes.
01:32:41 --> 01:32:46 Anytime you write something or you've got something to say, you know how to
01:32:46 --> 01:32:50 reach out to me and make sure that I can get you on. And I enjoy talking to you.
01:32:51 --> 01:32:56 And like I said before, I enjoy the commitment to the work that you're doing.
01:32:57 --> 01:33:00 We got to get, we got to get something better than where we're at.
01:33:01 --> 01:33:08 And I think if, if nothing else, I think this, this current political climate
01:33:08 --> 01:33:13 we're in should give us the foundation and the motivation to build something better down the road.
01:33:14 --> 01:33:18 So again, Les, thank you for, for doing this and thank you for being on the
01:33:18 --> 01:33:20 podcast. And thank you for all you're doing.
01:33:20 --> 01:33:24 All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side. Music.
01:33:43 --> 01:33:49 And so it is time for my next guest, Representative Dr.
01:33:49 --> 01:33:55 Jasmine Clark. Dr. Jasmine Clark is a state representative scientist and mother
01:33:55 --> 01:33:56 of two from Atlanta, Georgia.
01:33:57 --> 01:34:02 She received her B.S. in biological sciences with a concentration in microbiology
01:34:02 --> 01:34:06 from the University of Tennessee in Knoxville in 2005.
01:34:07 --> 01:34:12 Following her graduation from UTK, she attended Emory University's Laney Graduate
01:34:12 --> 01:34:19 School, where she received her doctoral degree in microbiology and molecular genetics in 2013.
01:34:19 --> 01:34:25 She currently serves as a lecturer of microbiology and human anatomy and physiology
01:34:25 --> 01:34:31 at the Nell Hogson Woodruff School of Nursing at Emory University.
01:34:32 --> 01:34:34 She is also an active member of her community.
01:34:35 --> 01:34:40 In 2017, she served as director of the March for Science held in Atlanta and
01:34:40 --> 01:34:43 has been involved with the Georgia Alliance for Social Justice.
01:34:44 --> 01:34:50 She was elected to office in 2018 when she beat out six-year incumbent Clay Cox.
01:34:50 --> 01:34:55 She has represented Georgia's 108th district since 2019.
01:34:56 --> 01:35:00 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
01:35:00 --> 01:35:05 on this podcast, Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark.
01:35:17 --> 01:35:21 Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark, how are you doing?
01:35:21 --> 01:35:25 I'm doing well. How are you doing this morning? I'm doing good.
01:35:25 --> 01:35:27 I'm doing better than you because I'm not campaigning.
01:35:27 --> 01:35:30 I'm not out there shaking hands and kissing babies and all that stuff.
01:35:31 --> 01:35:35 Those days, I think the last time I ran for something was 2008.
01:35:36 --> 01:35:42 So, yeah, I've been far removed from that, but I always applaud those of you
01:35:42 --> 01:35:47 who get out there and seek public office and are willing to serve the public.
01:35:47 --> 01:35:51 So I want to thank you for your service to the state of Georgia.
01:35:52 --> 01:35:56 And I'm excited for you and that you're running for the United States Congress.
01:35:56 --> 01:36:03 So let's go ahead and get started. I do a couple of icebreakers to kind of kick the conversation off.
01:36:04 --> 01:36:08 First icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.
01:36:08 --> 01:36:14 And the quote is, we need to be bold, loud, and intentional about standing up
01:36:14 --> 01:36:17 for our values and against what's happening in our communities.
01:36:17 --> 01:36:22 If people aren't hearing you, it's because you're not being loud enough.
01:36:22 --> 01:36:23 What does that quote mean to you?
01:36:24 --> 01:36:27 Well, it means a lot to me because I do believe it is my quote.
01:36:27 --> 01:36:35 I believe that there are a lot of injustices that are happening in our communities.
01:36:35 --> 01:36:39 And I do believe that complacency is not okay.
01:36:39 --> 01:36:46 And I do believe that we actually have to stand up to it boldly and loudly and very intentionally.
01:36:47 --> 01:36:51 And we can't use excuses like, oh, I didn't have this or I couldn't say this.
01:36:51 --> 01:36:56 I just believe that to be true. So when it comes to standing up for my community,
01:36:56 --> 01:37:00 I am proud to be bold and loud.
01:37:01 --> 01:37:04 Okay. Now, the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.
01:37:05 --> 01:37:09 Okay. So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20. Okay.
01:37:11 --> 01:37:16 I'm trying to think. Let's see. Seven.
01:37:16 --> 01:37:21 All right. what do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics
01:37:21 --> 01:37:24 current events health etc,
01:37:24 --> 01:37:27 oh man whatever is the way
01:37:27 --> 01:37:34 that you consume any information so if you're the type of person that you know
01:37:34 --> 01:37:39 consumes your information you know through the news and then that might be a
01:37:39 --> 01:37:43 good way or if you're the type of person that likes to look things up and researched
01:37:43 --> 01:37:46 and getting on the internet and doing that, but just make sure you're looking at good sources.
01:37:47 --> 01:37:50 But ultimately, I actually don't think there is one good way.
01:37:51 --> 01:37:55 That's probably maybe a good thing or a bad thing, but I don't think it's one good way. Okay.
01:37:56 --> 01:38:01 So as I always tell my guests, which is actually a fact,
01:38:02 --> 01:38:08 But most of the guests are smarter than me. And so I want to know somebody with
01:38:08 --> 01:38:13 your background in health, because your background is in health,
01:38:14 --> 01:38:15 right? Like nursing or something like that?
01:38:16 --> 01:38:19 So I teach at a nursing school. I teach future nurses, but my background is
01:38:19 --> 01:38:22 actually in microbiology, research science. Right. Yeah.
01:38:23 --> 01:38:29 That's where the doctor comes from. So why did somebody that was into microbiology
01:38:29 --> 01:38:31 decide to get interested in politics?
01:38:32 --> 01:38:36 So I asked myself this same question, and I first decided to run for office
01:38:36 --> 01:38:39 back in 2017 when I first got on the campaign trail.
01:38:39 --> 01:38:44 And the truth of the matter is, I was really concerned with the people who were
01:38:44 --> 01:38:45 in charge of our country,
01:38:45 --> 01:38:48 the people in leadership, the people in charge of our state,
01:38:48 --> 01:38:55 really being okay with the misinformation and the disinformation.
01:38:55 --> 01:38:58 So I decided to run for office back in the day.
01:38:59 --> 01:39:04 This feels so long ago, but this did happen back in the day when Kellyanne Conway,
01:39:05 --> 01:39:09 who was a part of Trump's administration, was going around telling people that
01:39:09 --> 01:39:12 they were entitled to their alternative facts.
01:39:12 --> 01:39:14 So first I got into activism.
01:39:15 --> 01:39:17 I led the Atlanta March for Science.
01:39:18 --> 01:39:23 10 people showed up and said, we want to see better policymaking that actually
01:39:23 --> 01:39:27 takes into account real evidence, real data, real facts.
01:39:27 --> 01:39:33 And it kind of just pushed me into this world that I never thought I would be part of.
01:39:33 --> 01:39:37 And so I actually tell the story when I'm on the campaign trail of like in November
01:39:37 --> 01:39:41 of 2016, I went to sleep a scientist. And that next morning,
01:39:42 --> 01:39:43 I woke up a mad scientist.
01:39:43 --> 01:39:48 And that's what propelled me into this world that I am now, where I still am
01:39:48 --> 01:39:51 a strong advocate for science. And I still actually do science.
01:39:51 --> 01:39:57 But I also feel like policy is really important. And we need those science voices in the room.
01:39:58 --> 01:40:04 Tell the listeners about Georgia's 13th Congressional District and why you want
01:40:04 --> 01:40:06 to represent them in Congress. Yeah.
01:40:07 --> 01:40:10 Absolutely. So Georgia's 13th Congressional District includes six counties.
01:40:10 --> 01:40:14 It includes parts of Gwinnett County, all of Rockdale County,
01:40:15 --> 01:40:20 parts of Newton County, parts of Henry, parts of Clayton, and parts of DeKalb
01:40:20 --> 01:40:22 County as well in the South DeKalb area.
01:40:22 --> 01:40:28 And I want to be the representative because I want to bring that science lens
01:40:28 --> 01:40:33 and perspective that I brought to the Georgia State Legislature to Washington, D.C.
01:40:33 --> 01:40:37 So I'm seeing all the things that are happening with healthcare,
01:40:37 --> 01:40:39 public health, the way RFK Jr.
01:40:40 --> 01:40:46 Has been allowed to just completely dismantle and undermine our public health systems,
01:40:46 --> 01:40:52 the way Elon Musk was allowed to just go in and indiscriminately fire our public
01:40:52 --> 01:40:56 health workers and cut funding to very important research.
01:40:56 --> 01:41:00 And when I think about the cutting of funding to research, what I realize is
01:41:00 --> 01:41:03 that a lot of people are like, well, I don't do research. Why should I care about that?
01:41:04 --> 01:41:07 But a lot of the things that that people do care about.
01:41:08 --> 01:41:13 Come about because there is some science nerd in a lab that has asked the questions
01:41:13 --> 01:41:19 that leads to the things that we actually do care about, like having access to certain therapies,
01:41:19 --> 01:41:23 like understanding when is the best time for people to get screened for certain cancers,
01:41:24 --> 01:41:30 like watching and surveilling when a very deadly virus starts out on a cruise
01:41:30 --> 01:41:33 ship in the middle of the ocean, but those people have to come home.
01:41:33 --> 01:41:37 And we want to make sure that the proper contact tracing is happening so that
01:41:37 --> 01:41:42 we don't have to see another COVID-19-like pandemic happen.
01:41:43 --> 01:41:46 And to be clear, hantavirus is not the same as COVID-19.
01:41:46 --> 01:41:50 But these are why it's important to have those science voices in the room.
01:41:50 --> 01:41:54 I want to be that science voice. And I did some research, because that's what
01:41:54 --> 01:41:59 I do, and found out that if I were to be elected, I would be the first woman
01:41:59 --> 01:42:02 with a science PhD ever elected to Congress,
01:42:02 --> 01:42:06 not just to the 13th Congressional District, not just to Congress in Georgia.
01:42:07 --> 01:42:13 But in our 250-year history of a nation, I would be the first woman with a science
01:42:13 --> 01:42:15 PhD to ever serve. And I think that's a big deal.
01:42:16 --> 01:42:21 Yeah. Yeah. That does sound like a big deal. It's kind of hard to believe that
01:42:21 --> 01:42:24 there's never been anybody.
01:42:24 --> 01:42:27 You know, I've seen medical doctors serve.
01:42:27 --> 01:42:33 Nobody that's been in the sciences like you are a researcher getting elected.
01:42:33 --> 01:42:37 So that's, That's that's yeah, that would be pretty cool historically.
01:42:37 --> 01:42:41 All right. At the financial reporting prior to early voting,
01:42:41 --> 01:42:45 it showed that you had raised the most money of all the candidates.
01:42:45 --> 01:42:49 However, there has been some controversy brought up concerning where your contributions
01:42:49 --> 01:42:52 came from. Would you like to address that?
01:42:53 --> 01:42:58 Yeah, all of my contributions have come from individuals. So I think there's
01:42:58 --> 01:43:03 a lot of misinformation that is out there about how campaigns work.
01:43:03 --> 01:43:10 My contributions that are filed through the FEC that I am required to do every
01:43:10 --> 01:43:13 three months and actually now every month leading up to the election,
01:43:13 --> 01:43:17 and now if it's more than $1 every 48 hours,
01:43:18 --> 01:43:20 all of those contributions come from individuals.
01:43:20 --> 01:43:22 I do have a handful of PACs.
01:43:22 --> 01:43:30 I think I have like 314 Action has a PAC and the nurses have a PAC and things like that.
01:43:30 --> 01:43:34 I think what you might be referring to is super PAC money.
01:43:34 --> 01:43:36 That money does not come to my campaign.
01:43:36 --> 01:43:43 I do not see that money. I have never seen that money. That money is spent by a super PAC.
01:43:44 --> 01:43:48 And to be clear, I cannot coordinate with super PACs as well.
01:43:48 --> 01:43:55 So again, as a person in science and as a person who got into politics to dispel
01:43:55 --> 01:43:59 misinformation, I do think it's really important for people to understand the difference.
01:44:00 --> 01:44:06 I actually have been very successful in getting support with a message of bringing
01:44:06 --> 01:44:08 a science voice to Congress.
01:44:08 --> 01:44:15 I have over 23 individual donors, and my average donation is actually less than $35.
01:44:16 --> 01:44:21 So people were like, well, you raised a million dollars. How can you be for the people?
01:44:21 --> 01:44:27 I'm like, it is 23 individual people that are sending me to Congress.
01:44:28 --> 01:44:32 And so, yeah, that's, I hope that clears that up a little bit because there
01:44:32 --> 01:44:34 has been a lot of misinformation about that.
01:44:34 --> 01:44:40 Yeah. And, you know, I've run, you know, federal office before too.
01:44:40 --> 01:44:43 So I know that's a lot of paperwork and it's very meticulous.
01:44:43 --> 01:44:48 And if you've got that many donors, especially in a race like to Congress because,
01:44:48 --> 01:44:50 you know, a president, you know, they have like staff.
01:44:52 --> 01:44:55 Yes. Oh, no, I have staff. I will be very clear.
01:44:55 --> 01:45:01 I have hired someone to do my filings because it is a lot to do.
01:45:01 --> 01:45:06 I don't know how I would have been able to handle filing 23.
01:45:06 --> 01:45:10 I'm sure whoever, the firm that we use, I'm sure they have a system in place for that.
01:45:11 --> 01:45:15 But no, yeah, 23, actually, we're knocking on the door of 24.
01:45:15 --> 01:45:21 Like, it has been an amazing outpouring of support from people.
01:45:21 --> 01:45:27 I'm talking teachers. I'm talking dentists, doctors, just regular everyday people,
01:45:27 --> 01:45:33 moms, saying, I love what you're talking about, and I want to see you in Congress.
01:45:33 --> 01:45:40 And so that's who I'm answering to when I talk about who is sending me to Congress.
01:45:40 --> 01:45:44 It is those people that took, you know, especially in this economy,
01:45:44 --> 01:45:48 you know, took the time to support me and show support for me through their
01:45:48 --> 01:45:52 donations, but also through reaching out to me, you know, telling me,
01:45:52 --> 01:45:57 you know, what's on their mind, what's important to them, showing support in so many different ways.
01:45:57 --> 01:46:02 Super PACs exist. If you want to talk about super PACs, let's talk about Citizens United.
01:46:02 --> 01:46:07 Let's talk about how the Supreme Court basically allow corporations to be treated
01:46:07 --> 01:46:13 like individuals and giving them a lot of leeway. We can talk about that.
01:46:13 --> 01:46:17 But when we talk about my campaign, the Jasmine Clark for Congress campaign,
01:46:17 --> 01:46:19 that's fueled by people.
01:46:19 --> 01:46:24 Gotcha. How has David Scott's passing impacted your race?
01:46:24 --> 01:46:28 You know, it's been very interesting. When Davis got passed,
01:46:28 --> 01:46:32 it was kind of a jolt to the system because that's not exactly,
01:46:32 --> 01:46:35 you know, that wasn't expected for me, at least.
01:46:37 --> 01:46:40 I think the impact has been one of confusion. I will say that.
01:46:41 --> 01:46:44 There are a lot of people that are like, I don't understand. What does this mean?
01:46:44 --> 01:46:49 Does that mean now we have to have a special election? And is your race even still happening?
01:46:49 --> 01:46:54 And that was like the initial confusion. And so to answer those questions,
01:46:55 --> 01:46:59 yes, May 19th is still happening. Early voting has already started.
01:46:59 --> 01:47:04 Yes, there will be a special election, but as a completely separate election
01:47:04 --> 01:47:09 that happens on July 28th, so two and a half months after May 19th.
01:47:09 --> 01:47:16 And that is only to fulfill the current term left by David Scott upon his passing.
01:47:17 --> 01:47:21 And no, the person who runs in a special election does not show up on the ballot in November.
01:47:24 --> 01:47:29 And then there was confusion at the polls itself. So I had people reaching out
01:47:29 --> 01:47:31 to me saying David Scott's name was still on my ballot.
01:47:32 --> 01:47:37 And the truth of the matter is the ballots were already created before his passing.
01:47:37 --> 01:47:41 And so there was no way to actually remove his name from the ballot.
01:47:41 --> 01:47:46 So voters were supposed to be informed as they get to the polling precinct that
01:47:46 --> 01:47:49 any votes cast for him will not be counted.
01:47:51 --> 01:47:54 However, that doesn't take into account that some people are voting absentee.
01:47:54 --> 01:47:56 They're not showing up to a polling precinct.
01:47:56 --> 01:47:59 Doesn't take into account that everybody isn't getting their news the same way
01:47:59 --> 01:48:04 at the same time. And a lot of people actually do not know that the congressman has passed.
01:48:04 --> 01:48:08 And also, there are a lot of people in the community that still have their David
01:48:08 --> 01:48:13 Scott signs up loud and proud. And so if you are not consuming your news and
01:48:13 --> 01:48:17 know that he has passed, you might very well still think that you can vote for him.
01:48:17 --> 01:48:21 So that has had a little bit of an impact on the race as far as like people
01:48:21 --> 01:48:23 just not really knowing what's going on.
01:48:25 --> 01:48:30 The other impact that I will say it has had is that now, for those that do know
01:48:30 --> 01:48:35 that the congressman has passed, they now have to choose between six other individuals.
01:48:35 --> 01:48:41 And of those six individuals, I will say that my campaign, me, Dr.
01:48:41 --> 01:48:46 Jasmine Clark, has made a concerted effort to reach the voters in all types
01:48:46 --> 01:48:51 of way, whether it be mail, whether it be TV, whether it be on their social media,
01:48:51 --> 01:48:56 whether it's on their YouTube channel, whether it's on the radio, knocking doors.
01:48:56 --> 01:48:58 We've knocked thousands of doors already.
01:48:58 --> 01:49:02 We just did 2 doors last weekend. Whether it's on their phone,
01:49:02 --> 01:49:07 whether it's through a handwritten postcard, like we are trying to reach voters
01:49:07 --> 01:49:10 in a way that we hope is meaningful.
01:49:10 --> 01:49:16 And I think that on May 19th, we hope that all of this work that we have done
01:49:16 --> 01:49:20 from those contributions, from those 23 plus people.
01:49:20 --> 01:49:25 We hope that that work bears the fruit that we hope that it will bear and that
01:49:25 --> 01:49:30 I will be the next congressperson for Congressional District 13 starting in January of 2027.
01:49:31 --> 01:49:36 So now are you going to take the same route that Nikema Williams did and not
01:49:36 --> 01:49:39 run in the special, just ride with the results of the general election?
01:49:41 --> 01:49:44 And here's the reason why. There's actually a really good reason for why I would
01:49:44 --> 01:49:47 do that. I am a current sitting state representative.
01:49:48 --> 01:49:53 If I qualify for the special election, I vacate my seat immediately.
01:49:53 --> 01:49:57 The moment I sign that signature, I am no longer the state representative.
01:49:58 --> 01:50:01 I don't know if you've been seeing what's been going on across legislatures in the country.
01:50:02 --> 01:50:07 Right now is not the time to create a vacancy in the statehouse when we need
01:50:07 --> 01:50:11 people to be fighting back against this redistricting efforts that are happening.
01:50:11 --> 01:50:16 In Georgia, we still got to figure out this QR code thing because we've made
01:50:16 --> 01:50:19 QR codes illegal, but that's how people are voting right now.
01:50:19 --> 01:50:21 And so as of July 1st, what are we doing?
01:50:22 --> 01:50:25 Very likely we will have a special session to address that.
01:50:26 --> 01:50:30 I do not want this seat to be empty when we have those conversations.
01:50:30 --> 01:50:33 I do believe that the people who live in House District 108,
01:50:34 --> 01:50:38 my current House district, who also live in Congressional District 13,
01:50:39 --> 01:50:43 deserve to have a seat at the table when all of these things are happening.
01:50:43 --> 01:50:48 And so I just don't feel that it's right to abandon my constituents just to
01:50:48 --> 01:50:50 get into Congress a couple of months earlier.
01:50:51 --> 01:50:56 And so, yes, I will take a similar route to what Nakima Williams did and really
01:50:56 --> 01:51:01 just focus on making sure I am fulfilling my obligation to my current constituents
01:51:01 --> 01:51:06 and preparing to be the next congressperson in January of 2027.
01:51:06 --> 01:51:10 So now, you know, one of the things
01:51:10 --> 01:51:15 that I was critical about Congressman Scott, but it wasn't really...
01:51:17 --> 01:51:21 It's not illegal because to run for Congress, as long as you live in the state
01:51:21 --> 01:51:24 you're running in, you can live anywhere and run for any district.
01:51:25 --> 01:51:30 But one of the concerns I had was the fact that he did not live in a district.
01:51:30 --> 01:51:32 At some point, he had moved out.
01:51:33 --> 01:51:37 And, you know, I'm just one of those politicians. When I was running that,
01:51:37 --> 01:51:40 I wanted every vote to count, including mine. Right.
01:51:40 --> 01:51:45 Because if it came down to one vote and I couldn't vote in my own election,
01:51:45 --> 01:51:51 I would feel kind of some kind of way. Why is it important?
01:51:51 --> 01:51:54 Because you mentioned that your district is in the congressional district.
01:51:55 --> 01:52:00 Why is it important for somebody to live in the district that's running for the district?
01:52:01 --> 01:52:05 That's really important. And I think the reason why it's important is exactly what you just said.
01:52:05 --> 01:52:10 I think that when you are going somewhere and saying,
01:52:10 --> 01:52:17 I'm going to be the voice of the community, I feel like the least you could
01:52:17 --> 01:52:21 do or should do is be a part of that community.
01:52:21 --> 01:52:27 And so as the representative of House District 108, I have spent a lot of time
01:52:27 --> 01:52:30 in my community running for state house.
01:52:30 --> 01:52:34 I was in one of the more competitive districts in the state legislature.
01:52:35 --> 01:52:41 And so I really took it very seriously that I needed to have my ear to the ground. So I was out there.
01:52:41 --> 01:52:45 I was having the town halls, but I was also going to the events.
01:52:45 --> 01:52:49 I was going to the local farmers markets. I was going to the,
01:52:49 --> 01:52:53 you know, local days in the park, food truck Tuesdays and all that stuff.
01:52:53 --> 01:53:00 I was embedded in my community. And I think that made me a better representative.
01:53:00 --> 01:53:04 And there are so many people today, even right now, when I go somewhere,
01:53:05 --> 01:53:08 they're like, that's my state representative. I know her.
01:53:08 --> 01:53:11 I see her. And she's accessible.
01:53:11 --> 01:53:19 I think that there's something to be said about having to represent an area
01:53:19 --> 01:53:22 that you're just not embedded in.
01:53:23 --> 01:53:26 And now, mind you, a congressional district is much larger than the state house district.
01:53:27 --> 01:53:30 So there are parts of this district where I have ties. So, for example,
01:53:30 --> 01:53:34 I have family in Rockdale County. I have family in Newton County.
01:53:34 --> 01:53:38 I have family in Ellenwood. Actually, at one point I lived in Ellenwood.
01:53:38 --> 01:53:44 Like I have family all throughout the district. So I do have ties to this district
01:53:44 --> 01:53:47 while also living, physically living in a district.
01:53:48 --> 01:53:54 And then like, I think if you're voting for Congress and not able to vote for
01:53:54 --> 01:53:57 yourself, I think that is kind of a testament to like.
01:53:58 --> 01:54:05 Maybe this is something that someone who does live there and can vote for themselves should do.
01:54:05 --> 01:54:09 Now, I don't like to speak ill of those that have passed.
01:54:09 --> 01:54:14 So I do want to say this is like me just speaking generally about how I think
01:54:14 --> 01:54:19 about people who run for districts that they don't live in and not necessarily
01:54:19 --> 01:54:23 specifically about Congressman Scott upon his passing. Yeah.
01:54:24 --> 01:54:28 And I, you know, I understand that, especially, especially now.
01:54:29 --> 01:54:32 Since you brought up redistricting, what are your thoughts about the recent
01:54:32 --> 01:54:36 Supreme Court decision concerning Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act?
01:54:36 --> 01:54:41 You know, it's actually really devastating. And the John Lewis Voting Rights
01:54:41 --> 01:54:46 Advancement Act has been on the table for a while now, and it is abundantly
01:54:46 --> 01:54:50 clear now more than ever that we needed to pass that like yesterday.
01:54:50 --> 01:54:58 The Calais decision is very interesting to me because the decision happened.
01:54:58 --> 01:55:03 That's one thing. What I found most interesting was the response.
01:55:03 --> 01:55:08 How quickly there were certain governments,
01:55:08 --> 01:55:13 Republican governments in particular, that said, now that we have got the green
01:55:13 --> 01:55:18 light to dilute Black voting power, let's do it.
01:55:18 --> 01:55:22 And I mean like immediately, like let's cancel the election that's already happening
01:55:22 --> 01:55:25 so that we can go ahead and dilute their voices.
01:55:25 --> 01:55:30 In Tennessee, let's draw districts where from one end of the district to the other,
01:55:31 --> 01:55:36 it would take you over three hours to drive there because it's 200 miles away
01:55:36 --> 01:55:41 so that we can dilute the power of the Black vote in the Memphis area.
01:55:43 --> 01:55:47 Gone through the redistricting process before, actually having been redistricted
01:55:47 --> 01:55:51 twice, I've been elected four terms,
01:55:51 --> 01:55:55 Eric, and I have run in three different iterations of this district because
01:55:55 --> 01:56:01 I kept getting redrawn and they kept going after me in the redistricting process.
01:56:01 --> 01:56:07 But what I will say is having done it, I know what you're supposed to consider
01:56:07 --> 01:56:11 when you're doing redistricting. You're supposed to consider things like communities
01:56:11 --> 01:56:15 of interest and all of that stuff. I lived in Tennessee.
01:56:15 --> 01:56:21 I can tell you right now, you cannot convince me that drawing a district that
01:56:21 --> 01:56:26 starts in Memphis and goes all the way to the rural areas of Tennessee acknowledges
01:56:26 --> 01:56:28 true communities of interest.
01:56:28 --> 01:56:32 So it flies in the face of what districts are supposed to be.
01:56:32 --> 01:56:38 And I really just think that, one, people, including Black people,
01:56:38 --> 01:56:43 and specifically Black people, have to show up in droves in elections because
01:56:43 --> 01:56:44 the reason why they do this,
01:56:45 --> 01:56:49 one, they go after us because they know the power of our vote if we show up.
01:56:49 --> 01:56:54 But two, they actually don't fear the consequences of going after Black voters.
01:56:54 --> 01:56:59 And so we need to make them fear the consequences of going after Black voters,
01:56:59 --> 01:57:04 which is that we're going to organize and we're going to fight back and we are
01:57:04 --> 01:57:07 going to strategize and we're going to beat them at their own game.
01:57:08 --> 01:57:13 Maybe not as quickly as we want to, but over time, I'm telling you,
01:57:13 --> 01:57:19 this stuff does not work if you get people galvanized and energized enough that
01:57:19 --> 01:57:21 they're ready to fight back.
01:57:21 --> 01:57:24 And I think right now a lot of people are paying attention and they're ready to fight back.
01:57:25 --> 01:57:29 Well, you know, one of the things I was going to bring up in my opinion part
01:57:29 --> 01:57:35 of the show, just remind folks that early on the British was winning the Revolutionary
01:57:35 --> 01:57:38 War and the Confederates were winning the Civil War.
01:57:38 --> 01:57:41 And we know what happened in the end. Yeah.
01:57:41 --> 01:57:46 And I think that that's really the approach that we have to have as black people
01:57:46 --> 01:57:49 that, you know, they're doing their little victory laps now,
01:57:49 --> 01:57:53 especially after the Virginia Supreme Court decision yesterday.
01:57:53 --> 01:57:59 But November 3rd is still coming. And I agree with you, the more that we turn
01:57:59 --> 01:58:04 out, you know, the results that everybody is expecting is going to happen.
01:58:04 --> 01:58:07 Speaking about Supreme Court, since the U.S.
01:58:08 --> 01:58:14 Since the circuits of the U.S. Court of Appeals are assigned a circuit justice from the U.S.
01:58:15 --> 01:58:20 Supreme Court and there are 13 courts of appeal circuits, would you vote for
01:58:20 --> 01:58:23 an expansion of the U.S. Supreme Court to 13 justices?
01:58:25 --> 01:58:32 Absolutely. I actually believe that we are long overdue for expanding the court.
01:58:32 --> 01:58:39 Now, we do need to do it in a way that we make sure that we are,
01:58:39 --> 01:58:41 I guess, strategic about it.
01:58:41 --> 01:58:44 So I wouldn't do it right now while Donald Trump is the president.
01:58:44 --> 01:58:51 But the moment Democrats actually have power, which could be very soon,
01:58:51 --> 01:58:56 we need to grab it by the horns and actually do the things that need to be done
01:58:56 --> 01:59:01 to make sure that we are just keeping up with the times.
01:59:01 --> 01:59:04 I'm sorry, our Supreme Court is way too small for the size of our nation,
01:59:04 --> 01:59:09 but also to your point, to the size of our appeals courts and all the different
01:59:09 --> 01:59:15 things. So I am 100% in favor of increasing the size of the court.
01:59:16 --> 01:59:20 Yeah. Are Georgians concerned about the Epstein files?
01:59:21 --> 01:59:26 And if not, what are they concerned about and how will you go about addressing those concerns?
01:59:27 --> 01:59:31 Georgians are concerned. So here's the thing. Georgians are concerned about the Epstein files,
01:59:31 --> 01:59:38 but in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that is actually not really hitting the
01:59:38 --> 01:59:42 mark at this moment because people are also concerned about the fact that they
01:59:42 --> 01:59:44 can't afford to put gas in their car to get to work,
01:59:44 --> 01:59:47 or they just lost their job,
01:59:47 --> 01:59:52 or they just had to drop their health insurance because of the premium tax credits
01:59:52 --> 01:59:55 not being expanded and their health insurance tripling.
01:59:56 --> 02:00:02 There's a lot of other things that are on the minds of people to where I have
02:00:02 --> 02:00:06 not necessarily been in rooms. I've been to several candidate forums.
02:00:06 --> 02:00:08 I think at this point, I've probably been to like 11 or 12.
02:00:08 --> 02:00:11 I've not been in a single room where Epstein has come up.
02:00:12 --> 02:00:17 But when you bring up Epstein, it is definitely on people's minds because there
02:00:17 --> 02:00:21 is something to be said about the fact that.
02:00:22 --> 02:00:27 People accused of some pretty heinous things, especially crimes against children.
02:00:27 --> 02:00:35 And it seems like these elites or what they consider themselves elite are not
02:00:35 --> 02:00:38 being held accountable in a way that people in our communities would have the
02:00:38 --> 02:00:40 book slapped at them like immediately.
02:00:40 --> 02:00:48 So it is something that doesn't necessarily come up or rise to the top in moments
02:00:48 --> 02:00:51 right now where people are worried about affordability.
02:00:52 --> 02:00:57 But that doesn't mean it has gone away. I am 100% in favor of,
02:00:57 --> 02:00:59 one, releasing the entirety of the Epstein files.
02:00:59 --> 02:01:02 I believe technically they still haven't even done that part yet.
02:01:03 --> 02:01:07 And not redacting the way they are redacting.
02:01:07 --> 02:01:12 Like the way they did redactions before where they were removing the names of
02:01:12 --> 02:01:18 powerful people, but keeping the names of victims exposed, let me know that
02:01:18 --> 02:01:20 these people are not serious about this process.
02:01:21 --> 02:01:24 And so, yes, I do believe that is something that needs to be addressed.
02:01:24 --> 02:01:26 It has never left my mind.
02:01:26 --> 02:01:29 It is still on my mind. It's still something that needs to be addressed.
02:01:29 --> 02:01:33 And I do every now and then bring it back up just to remind people,
02:01:34 --> 02:01:38 you know, people will do a lot of things to try to get away with stuff.
02:01:39 --> 02:01:42 Start a whole war just to get you to stop talking about Epstein.
02:01:43 --> 02:01:47 You know, let people try to take food off of baby's tables in order to get you
02:01:47 --> 02:01:48 to stop talking about Epstein.
02:01:48 --> 02:01:53 Like, literally have immigration officers out here shooting people in the face
02:01:53 --> 02:01:55 to get you to stop talking about Epstein.
02:01:55 --> 02:02:01 They've tried a lot of things to distract us. I think that we are able as a
02:02:01 --> 02:02:05 country, though, to walk and chew gum at the same time, and it's never going to go away.
02:02:05 --> 02:02:11 Yeah, I think the latest distraction now is repainting the reflection pool at the mall.
02:02:12 --> 02:02:14 I think that's the new one.
02:02:15 --> 02:02:17 Billion-dollar ballrooms gilded in gold.
02:02:18 --> 02:02:24 Those are important things to talk about, but they are distractions from the
02:02:24 --> 02:02:29 larger crimes that have been committed by very powerful people in our country
02:02:29 --> 02:02:30 that need to be held accountable.
02:02:30 --> 02:02:36 Yeah, I like the way that you use the Maslow theory.
02:02:36 --> 02:02:40 It's like I'm just thinking of like a pyramid with like political issues on
02:02:40 --> 02:02:41 it and stuff. That's pretty cool.
02:02:43 --> 02:02:46 Would you vote for legislation that will abolish ICE?
02:02:47 --> 02:02:52 Yes, absolutely. I tell people all the time, I have shoes in my closet older than ICE.
02:02:52 --> 02:02:56 This is not some foundational institution that absolutely positively has to be there.
02:02:56 --> 02:03:00 Do we need some type of immigration enforcement? Absolutely.
02:03:00 --> 02:03:04 But I think that immigration enforcement should actually focus on finding pathways
02:03:04 --> 02:03:09 for citizenship for people, making sure we are using due process and making
02:03:09 --> 02:03:15 sure we are not using the heavy hand of the law to profile people in our communities.
02:03:15 --> 02:03:20 And so the ice in its current iteration is just, to me, unfixable.
02:03:20 --> 02:03:21 We need something different.
02:03:21 --> 02:03:27 All right. Did you support the Democrats' position during the various government shutdowns?
02:03:28 --> 02:03:32 Well, so did I support the Democrats' position to fight for healthcare? Absolutely.
02:03:32 --> 02:03:34 And I was actually kind of devastated that at the end of that,
02:03:35 --> 02:03:37 we didn't get what we were fighting for.
02:03:37 --> 02:03:44 And we also had upended so many people's lives. That actually didn't sit very
02:03:44 --> 02:03:46 well with me, I'm going to be very honest.
02:03:46 --> 02:03:49 But did I support fighting for health care? Absolutely.
02:03:49 --> 02:03:55 And I believe that that was the right fight to have because now we've seen 500
02:03:55 --> 02:04:03 Georgians or 37% of the people that had ACA plans in 2025 now not have any insurance
02:04:03 --> 02:04:08 in 2026 because of these decisions. So absolutely for that.
02:04:08 --> 02:04:12 When the second shutdown happened with the TSA workers, I was 100% in support
02:04:12 --> 02:04:17 of the bill that said fund everybody else except for ICE. You know what?
02:04:17 --> 02:04:21 ICE was still getting paid. So that actually was non-controversial.
02:04:22 --> 02:04:29 Supported that. I do believe that the ICE, the way that ICE is operating, masked up, you know.
02:04:30 --> 02:04:33 Quotas, grabbing people off the street, not having to identify themselves and
02:04:33 --> 02:04:37 badge numbers, not having to wear body cams is unsustainable.
02:04:37 --> 02:04:41 We don't allow our local law enforcement to do that. Why would we allow ICE to do that?
02:04:41 --> 02:04:45 So I believe that the things that were even being asked for and negotiated weren't
02:04:45 --> 02:04:49 even difficult things. And the fact that they were saying no to that,
02:04:49 --> 02:04:53 let me know you're not actually trying to operate with integrity.
02:04:53 --> 02:04:57 You want to be able to terrorize communities. And so I stand behind that too.
02:04:57 --> 02:05:01 I do not like how it impacted TSA workers.
02:05:01 --> 02:05:05 I still do not like how it impacted TSA. I do not like how the administration
02:05:05 --> 02:05:11 felt then the next best thing to do was not to pay TSA workers,
02:05:11 --> 02:05:16 but to bring ICE into the airport to try to do what TSA workers do.
02:05:16 --> 02:05:19 I felt like that was a slap in the face to those employees.
02:05:20 --> 02:05:23 And to be clear, a lot of those employees live in Congressional District 13.
02:05:24 --> 02:05:28 And so I support what the Democrats have done. I do not support how Republicans
02:05:28 --> 02:05:33 have played people and used people as pawns within, like, they just don't care.
02:05:33 --> 02:05:37 And it's hard when you're basically negotiating with terrorists.
02:05:37 --> 02:05:40 So, but yes, I guess the short answer to your question is yes.
02:05:41 --> 02:05:45 All right. So now these questions I'm going to rattle off, and you can just
02:05:45 --> 02:05:48 say yes or no. If you want to explain your answer, you can.
02:05:49 --> 02:05:54 Okay. I'll try. Okay. Do you support going to war with Iran? No.
02:05:55 --> 02:05:58 Would you support the United States going to war with Venezuela?
02:05:59 --> 02:06:03 No. Do you support military aid to the Ukraine?
02:06:03 --> 02:06:08 Yes. Do you support military aid to Israel? So depending on what we're talking
02:06:08 --> 02:06:14 about, most likely no, but it depends on what we're talking about.
02:06:15 --> 02:06:21 So the October 7th situation, right, immediately after that,
02:06:21 --> 02:06:26 you would say you might be prone to vote for them to say, okay,
02:06:27 --> 02:06:33 we're going to, Israel wants to respond to a terrorist attack in their nation. You might vote for that.
02:06:34 --> 02:06:39 No, I don't vote for war. I don't vote for war. No. All right.
02:06:39 --> 02:06:45 All right. Taking into account that 33% of your state's population is African-American,
02:06:45 --> 02:06:47 what is your position on reparations?
02:06:47 --> 02:06:51 I think it is a long overdue conversation. I've actually worked on reparations
02:06:51 --> 02:06:53 as a state representative.
02:06:53 --> 02:06:58 We need to have this conversation. It needs to be had now. And so I'm 100% in favor of it. Okay.
02:06:58 --> 02:07:02 All right. So early voting has started, as you mentioned, here in Georgia.
02:07:03 --> 02:07:07 What message do you want to convey to the voters to consider you to be their
02:07:07 --> 02:07:09 next congresswoman? Okay.
02:07:10 --> 02:07:14 To be a science voice in Georgia at a time where science is under attack,
02:07:14 --> 02:07:17 where public health is under attack, where we are, you know,
02:07:17 --> 02:07:22 in the process of probably dealing with the next pandemic in the next couple
02:07:22 --> 02:07:26 of years with people at the helm that have absolutely no regard for human life.
02:07:26 --> 02:07:29 And we need those voices in the room.
02:07:29 --> 02:07:35 I have a track record as a state representative of standing up to and fighting back against MAGA.
02:07:35 --> 02:07:37 Like, my record speaks for itself.
02:07:37 --> 02:07:42 I fought back against Brian Kemp, when he manipulated COVID data,
02:07:42 --> 02:07:44 he had to change the record.
02:07:44 --> 02:07:49 I fought back against Republicans when they manipulated and lied about their
02:07:49 --> 02:07:52 justifications for our state's abortion ban.
02:07:52 --> 02:07:55 They had to correct the record. And they tried to do that quietly,
02:07:55 --> 02:07:56 but I will not let them forget.
02:07:56 --> 02:08:01 I stood up for our students in our schools when our state school superintendent
02:08:01 --> 02:08:07 tried to not fund AP African-American studies because he tried to call it a divisive concept.
02:08:07 --> 02:08:10 And I stood up to them and it is now fully funded.
02:08:10 --> 02:08:13 And I have a child who is in high school right now that has the opportunity
02:08:13 --> 02:08:16 to take that class because of her mama's fight.
02:08:16 --> 02:08:20 So I stand up to them. I stand up to them in committee.
02:08:20 --> 02:08:24 If you've ever watched a committee hearing that I am sitting in at the state
02:08:24 --> 02:08:26 capitol, you know I am asking the questions.
02:08:26 --> 02:08:30 I stand up to them on the house floor, whether it's me speaking in the well
02:08:30 --> 02:08:32 or me asking questions during debate.
02:08:32 --> 02:08:39 Like I am a fighter and I'm not just saying that for campaign purposes, I have receipts.
02:08:39 --> 02:08:43 And so if you want to send someone up to Washington, D.C.
02:08:43 --> 02:08:48 To actually fight for you, know that you can trust that I will do that because
02:08:48 --> 02:08:53 it's something I'm already doing right now, even today as a sitting state representative.
02:08:53 --> 02:08:57 And again, because this is really important to me,
02:08:58 --> 02:09:02 I also want to say we need to have science voices in the room because a lot
02:09:02 --> 02:09:06 of the things that are impacting our communities, and by our I'm talking about
02:09:06 --> 02:09:08 black communities, black and brown communities.
02:09:10 --> 02:09:14 Of the things that are impacting us, those are the things that go on the chopping block first.
02:09:14 --> 02:09:17 And we need people in the room standing up for us.
02:09:17 --> 02:09:21 So when they're cutting cancer research and they're cutting things like prostate
02:09:21 --> 02:09:26 cancer research, guess who is most likely to die from a prostate cancer diagnosis?
02:09:26 --> 02:09:30 Black men. When they are cutting research funding for breast cancer,
02:09:30 --> 02:09:35 guess who's most likely to get the most untreatable form of breast cancer,
02:09:35 --> 02:09:37 which is triple negative breast cancer?
02:09:38 --> 02:09:42 Black women. When they are cutting funds to Black maternal health,
02:09:42 --> 02:09:46 guess, or to maternal health, guess who is impacted most?
02:09:47 --> 02:09:50 Black women. Three times as much as any other demographic.
02:09:51 --> 02:09:56 So when they are putting things on the chopping block, we need to make sure
02:09:56 --> 02:10:00 that we have a voice in the room that's fighting back and fighting back from a place of expertise.
02:10:01 --> 02:10:04 I've been doing it. I want to continue to do it as your next congressperson,
02:10:04 --> 02:10:07 and I would love to have your vote. Early voting has started.
02:10:08 --> 02:10:11 It continues through May 15th. Election day is on May 19th.
02:10:11 --> 02:10:17 And you can learn more about me at jasmine, like the rice, the number four ga.com.
02:10:18 --> 02:10:23 Well, Representative Dr. Jasmine Clark, you have been very active.
02:10:24 --> 02:10:27 I came to Atlanta in 2017.
02:10:28 --> 02:10:33 So basically the time that I've been here, you've been in the legislature.
02:10:34 --> 02:10:41 And, you know, it's one thing for somebody to have an Instagram page and they put up what they do.
02:10:41 --> 02:10:44 But it's another thing when your face keeps popping up on other people's Instagram
02:10:44 --> 02:10:48 pages at the Capitol Builder Doer Work.
02:10:48 --> 02:10:55 So the track record, I will attest as somebody that was considered very similar to,
02:10:56 --> 02:11:00 When I served in the legislature, I was the one always asking questions.
02:11:00 --> 02:11:03 I was going to the well, doing what I needed to do in Mississippi.
02:11:04 --> 02:11:09 So I respect fighters like that. So I can attest that you're a fighter.
02:11:10 --> 02:11:14 And we need more people like that in public office.
02:11:14 --> 02:11:20 It'll be a loss to District 108, but it'll be a gain for District 13.
02:11:20 --> 02:11:25 So you'll be helping more people if you get in there. But I want to close out
02:11:25 --> 02:11:31 the interview, since you've done the plug already, I want to close out the interview with this.
02:11:31 --> 02:11:34 Finish this sentence. I have hope because.
02:11:35 --> 02:11:43 I have hope because I look at my daughter and my son and I see what they're
02:11:43 --> 02:11:51 seeing and I see a world where to fight for it for them. And so I have hope.
02:11:51 --> 02:11:55 They're coming up. But also I have hope because you have people like me willing to fight for that.
02:11:56 --> 02:12:02 All right. Well, again, Reverend Dr. Reverend Representative Dr.
02:12:02 --> 02:12:04 Jasmine Clark, I'm about to throw another title on you.
02:12:09 --> 02:12:14 I really appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast.
02:12:14 --> 02:12:16 I know the campaign schedules are hectic.
02:12:17 --> 02:12:20 I appreciate that you were able to carve out some time to make that happen so
02:12:20 --> 02:12:23 the listeners will get to hear your viewpoints on this.
02:12:24 --> 02:12:27 And I wish you continued success on the campaign.
02:12:28 --> 02:12:33 And hopefully, you'll institute the rule that we have is that once you have
02:12:33 --> 02:12:35 been a guest, you have an open invitation to come back.
02:12:35 --> 02:12:40 And if you are the congresswoman for District 13, that you will come back on
02:12:40 --> 02:12:43 the podcast and kind of let people know what's going on.
02:12:43 --> 02:12:46 Oh, I look forward to it. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Eric.
02:12:47 --> 02:12:49 All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
02:13:04 --> 02:13:09 I want to thank my returning guests, Dr. Tammy Greer and Les Leopold,
02:13:10 --> 02:13:11 for coming on to the podcast.
02:13:11 --> 02:13:16 I always like picking Dr. Greer's brain, especially when it comes to Georgia
02:13:16 --> 02:13:21 politics, but also, you know, she's got her eye on national stuff as well.
02:13:21 --> 02:13:27 And Les Leopold, who is one of the great political minds that's out here,
02:13:27 --> 02:13:34 especially from a grassroots organizing perspective and definitely from a labor perspective.
02:13:34 --> 02:13:39 So please, you know, when you get a chance, get Les' new book,
02:13:39 --> 02:13:42 which is called The Billionaires Have Two Parties.
02:13:42 --> 02:13:44 We Need a Party of Our Own.
02:13:45 --> 02:13:50 It's really, really eye-opening because the book, I don't know.
02:13:51 --> 02:13:56 Of the material he got from that book was from a survey that his organization,
02:13:57 --> 02:14:01 the Labor Institute, did talking to working people,
02:14:01 --> 02:14:05 people that are in unions even or were qualified to be in unions,
02:14:05 --> 02:14:10 and just kind of got a sense of what are they looking for in their political leadership.
02:14:10 --> 02:14:16 And a lot of this stuff falls under what I always talk about with real American leadership, right?
02:14:17 --> 02:14:21 You know, the issues that are important to us. So please, please,
02:14:21 --> 02:14:26 please, Please, please support Les's work and get that book.
02:14:27 --> 02:14:35 And then to, you know, having been a candidate myself for a federal office,
02:14:35 --> 02:14:38 you know, having been elected to a legislative seat.
02:14:40 --> 02:14:47 I know the demands of campaigning and trying to, you know, get people on schedules
02:14:47 --> 02:14:51 and all that. And I was really fortunate that I was able to get Representative Dr.
02:14:52 --> 02:14:57 Jasmine Clark on before Election Day.
02:14:57 --> 02:15:00 Right. The early voting has started here in Georgia.
02:15:00 --> 02:15:07 And, you know, but it's really, really it was really, really a blessing to be able to get her on.
02:15:07 --> 02:15:12 And, you know, it's just it's it's it's it's something to, you know,
02:15:12 --> 02:15:16 maneuver around schedules like that. But we was glad we was able to carve out
02:15:16 --> 02:15:18 some time because I think Dr.
02:15:19 --> 02:15:24 Clark is is really one of the true ones out there running.
02:15:25 --> 02:15:31 And although I don't live in District 13, I would encourage people to really
02:15:31 --> 02:15:35 pay attention to her candidacy and and check out her background.
02:15:37 --> 02:15:42 Let her tell it, you know, there's, you know, there's other people that are good people running.
02:15:42 --> 02:15:46 Of course, she would say that she's the best candidate and why wouldn't she?
02:15:46 --> 02:15:54 But, you know, just just pay attention to what's going on. We've got I'm actually in District 11.
02:15:54 --> 02:15:58 So my congressman is not running for election. That's Barry Laudermilk.
02:15:59 --> 02:16:06 So it's a wide open race there. It looks like, you know, a couple of people
02:16:06 --> 02:16:11 that I'm watching to see how that goes, you know, shapes up.
02:16:12 --> 02:16:16 But, yeah, it's going to be interesting.
02:16:17 --> 02:16:24 So if you like what you heard from Dr. Clark, please do what you can to support her campaign.
02:16:25 --> 02:16:32 So real quick, guys, I just want to talk a little bit about where we still are.
02:16:33 --> 02:16:41 Last week, I vented a little bit and I ended up venting just one particular dude on Facebook.
02:16:41 --> 02:16:47 And the thing that bothers me about the quote unquote intellectual conservatives
02:16:47 --> 02:16:53 that try to defend this MAGA movement, You know, one, they do it with a lot of arrogance.
02:16:54 --> 02:17:00 And two, I just, and I think I said that last week, people that are arrogant
02:17:00 --> 02:17:03 and ignorant, it's just, that drives me nuts. It does.
02:17:04 --> 02:17:08 And, you know, I mean, people have a right to their opinion and they can be
02:17:08 --> 02:17:09 confident in their opinion.
02:17:10 --> 02:17:15 But, you know, arrogant people, you know, talk to you as if you have no clue
02:17:15 --> 02:17:16 what you're saying. Right.
02:17:18 --> 02:17:25 And, you know, people that are arrogant and racist thought and illogical thought,
02:17:26 --> 02:17:27 you know what I'm saying?
02:17:27 --> 02:17:32 It's just, it just irks me. And then they just, you know, they just come up
02:17:32 --> 02:17:35 with all sorts of stuff, man. You know, they'll...
02:17:36 --> 02:17:42 You know, it's just like the only good thing about where we are now in this
02:17:42 --> 02:17:47 political climate is that people's true colors are coming out and people that
02:17:47 --> 02:17:51 I thought were decent people are really not.
02:17:51 --> 02:18:02 I respect people who try to make an intellectual argument based on their viewpoints, but I still say,
02:18:03 --> 02:18:07 and I will say it until I can't say it anymore,
02:18:08 --> 02:18:12 you can't defend the indefensible, right?
02:18:13 --> 02:18:17 And, you know, for those who want to rally on the conservative side,
02:18:18 --> 02:18:22 there's an argument to be made about conservatism, right?
02:18:22 --> 02:18:28 Because black folks are conservative about certain issues and they're liberal on others, right?
02:18:29 --> 02:18:37 But, you know, what's going on with the president, that's not defendable at all to me.
02:18:38 --> 02:18:44 I mean, if he was a Democrat, I'd be like, I remember when Bill Clinton and
02:18:44 --> 02:18:47 the sex scandal came up with Monica Lewinsky, right?
02:18:48 --> 02:18:51 And I was in leadership at the local Democratic Party at the time.
02:18:52 --> 02:18:58 And so, you know, I had to express my disdain for when it happened.
02:18:59 --> 02:19:04 When people that you support put you in an awkward position for something that
02:19:04 --> 02:19:07 they've done, you know, you, you have to be truthful about it.
02:19:08 --> 02:19:12 You know, you can try to put a spin on it if you want to, if you have like a
02:19:12 --> 02:19:15 personal relationship with that person, but somebody like the president of the
02:19:15 --> 02:19:19 United States, it's like, bro, you putting this in a bad light,
02:19:19 --> 02:19:22 you know, and, and we got to navigate that.
02:19:22 --> 02:19:25 I mean, heck, your city councilman can put you in a bad light.
02:19:26 --> 02:19:26 You know what I'm saying?
02:19:27 --> 02:19:34 So you have to navigate through that, but you don't go into total denial mode
02:19:34 --> 02:19:36 that the thing happened.
02:19:37 --> 02:19:40 You know, you might say something like, well, we got to wait till all the facts come out.
02:19:41 --> 02:19:45 From what I hear, that doesn't sound too good. But again, we got to go through
02:19:45 --> 02:19:50 the investigation or the process, whatever the situation dictates, right?
02:19:50 --> 02:19:54 You know, but you just can't answer and just lie about what's going on.
02:19:54 --> 02:20:00 But if you see this person doing this or you hear this person saying this or
02:20:00 --> 02:20:05 you read this person writing this and then you try to turn it around like I
02:20:05 --> 02:20:10 think the representative talked about Kellyanne Conway, right? And alternative facts.
02:20:11 --> 02:20:14 It's like, no, there's no such thing as alternative facts.
02:20:15 --> 02:20:20 You just made that up. There's no such thing. You know, it's like,
02:20:21 --> 02:20:26 you know, if you're a comic book fan, yeah, there's alternate universes and realities and stuff.
02:20:26 --> 02:20:30 But in the real world, there's only one that we know of.
02:20:30 --> 02:20:37 And, you know, I just I don't I couldn't defend that.
02:20:38 --> 02:20:41 There's no way I could defend that. I'd be doing everything I could.
02:20:42 --> 02:20:45 If I was a Republican, I'd be doing everything I could to like,
02:20:45 --> 02:20:50 hey, man, let's get this joker out the way quick. The 25th Amendment. That's great.
02:20:50 --> 02:20:55 You know, whatever, whatever you got to do to, you know, next man up.
02:20:55 --> 02:20:57 Let's let's make that happen. Right.
02:20:58 --> 02:21:03 Because the president being the avatar of conservatism, that's not what's happening.
02:21:04 --> 02:21:09 A person that I was debating with or arguing with, whatever perspective you
02:21:09 --> 02:21:14 want to take on Facebook, basically said, yeah, I'm a conservative.
02:21:14 --> 02:21:19 I'm not a populist. And what we're seeing now is more populism.
02:21:19 --> 02:21:21 And I'm not really down with that per se.
02:21:21 --> 02:21:25 It was like, okay, you know, I get that. I respect that.
02:21:26 --> 02:21:33 But there's some accountability that has to happen too, because now the Virginia
02:21:33 --> 02:21:35 Supreme Court then came down.
02:21:35 --> 02:21:38 And I was really, really confident that the court that allowed the election
02:21:38 --> 02:21:45 to happen, because the arguments that were made before the referendum that happened
02:21:45 --> 02:21:48 in Virginia were the same ones that were made after the election.
02:21:49 --> 02:21:54 And they were trying to make the argument that, you know, it was not constitutional.
02:21:55 --> 02:21:57 Because they didn't follow the steps.
02:21:57 --> 02:22:02 And the steps is you're supposed to have a session to discuss the referendum,
02:22:02 --> 02:22:07 then an election is supposed to happen, and then you come back and push the
02:22:07 --> 02:22:09 referendum on the next ballot, right?
02:22:09 --> 02:22:12 Or if you're going to have a special election, whatever the case may be,
02:22:12 --> 02:22:14 which is what happened in Virginia.
02:22:15 --> 02:22:19 So it came down to a technical thing.
02:22:19 --> 02:22:25 Right. And, you know, that's you know, that's why you have law and you have
02:22:25 --> 02:22:27 litigators and all that stuff to try to make the case.
02:22:27 --> 02:22:30 You don't know which way to judge or a jury is going to go.
02:22:31 --> 02:22:37 So in this case, they got hung up on the fact that when the legislature first
02:22:37 --> 02:22:42 put it out there, they did it before Election Day. but early voting had started.
02:22:42 --> 02:22:48 So the court, at least four of them, said, well, technically the election was
02:22:48 --> 02:22:52 already underway, so therefore they didn't meet the deadline, right?
02:22:53 --> 02:22:56 Constitution, when it was written, didn't incorporate early voting.
02:22:56 --> 02:23:00 It said by the election date, right?
02:23:00 --> 02:23:07 But, you know, they wanted to adapt it and say, well, no, no,
02:23:08 --> 02:23:11 was early voting, it was already in place.
02:23:11 --> 02:23:17 And they were trying to say that it wasn't a fair evaluation, right?
02:23:17 --> 02:23:20 Because, you know, it might make a decision whether people were going to vote
02:23:20 --> 02:23:21 for those candidates or not.
02:23:22 --> 02:23:27 But in reality, if you were living in Virginia, people were talking about this
02:23:27 --> 02:23:32 special session happening because, you know, Donald Trump had made his phone
02:23:32 --> 02:23:35 call to Greg Abbott before that election took place.
02:23:36 --> 02:23:40 And, you know, so Texas did their thing.
02:23:40 --> 02:23:46 And so when California said, hey, we're going to go through the process to have
02:23:46 --> 02:23:49 a referendum, that's when Virginia started talking about it.
02:23:49 --> 02:23:54 So people in foreign voters would have said, huh,
02:23:55 --> 02:23:59 if the Democrats want to do that, then either I'm going to vote for Democrats
02:23:59 --> 02:24:06 to do it, I'm going to vote against Democrats not to, because I don't want that to happen, right?
02:24:07 --> 02:24:13 And actually, Virginia gained seats, Democratic seats during that election that they're talking about.
02:24:14 --> 02:24:19 So it was, they were playing with semantics.
02:24:20 --> 02:24:25 And, you know, but in the real world, people were not ignorant that this was
02:24:25 --> 02:24:27 a reality that could happen, right?
02:24:27 --> 02:24:32 That this special election that they actually were going to discuss redistricting,
02:24:33 --> 02:24:35 and they were going to bring it to a vote.
02:24:35 --> 02:24:38 The discussions were already in place to do it.
02:24:38 --> 02:24:41 It wasn't like they met in some secret room and said, aha, we're going to have
02:24:41 --> 02:24:44 a special session. You know, people were talking already.
02:24:44 --> 02:24:49 So people who were going to the polls knew that this was going to happen.
02:24:49 --> 02:24:51 And that's the one thing about it.
02:24:51 --> 02:24:54 You know, at the Supreme Court level, you can't bring in witnesses.
02:24:55 --> 02:24:58 Right. And only deal with the attorneys and the motions.
02:24:59 --> 02:25:04 And, you know, whether it's a constitutional issue or not. So they they were.
02:25:05 --> 02:25:11 Term I want to use, bereft of that opportunity to have voters testify and say,
02:25:11 --> 02:25:15 yeah, we knew that this was a reality before we voted.
02:25:16 --> 02:25:23 So they just made an assumption that people did not know and made their decision, right?
02:25:23 --> 02:25:27 So, you know, that changed everything.
02:25:27 --> 02:25:33 And plus, you know, they were already in the punishment mode because now all
02:25:33 --> 02:25:37 of a sudden, The young lady who is the state senator,
02:25:38 --> 02:25:42 the leader of the Senate, I guess the pro tem of the Senate,
02:25:42 --> 02:25:44 and I'm not looking at her name
02:25:44 --> 02:25:51 right away, but, you know, they started investigating her, right? Right.
02:25:52 --> 02:26:01 They started investigating her, you know, and and trying to insinuate that she
02:26:01 --> 02:26:05 was involved in some kind of fraud or corruption scheme or whatever.
02:26:06 --> 02:26:09 And let me see if I can pull it up real quick, her name.
02:26:10 --> 02:26:16 And because I have something in my mind, but I don't want to mispronounce her
02:26:16 --> 02:26:20 name since this is going on the record. Right. Louise Lucas.
02:26:21 --> 02:26:24 So I had the Louise in my mind. I couldn't remember the last name.
02:26:25 --> 02:26:30 So Louise Lucas, they they they they decided they're going to investigate her
02:26:30 --> 02:26:34 after this vote is taking place. Right.
02:26:34 --> 02:26:39 You know, because I think she went and got a tag or they were putting it out
02:26:39 --> 02:26:43 on the Internet that she had a tag that said 10 one on there, whatever.
02:26:44 --> 02:26:49 So, you know, the Republicans are sore, terribly sore losers, right?
02:26:50 --> 02:26:55 And that goes to that whole conversation about white fragility, right?
02:26:57 --> 02:27:00 Yeah. You know, so they already had the investigation going on.
02:27:00 --> 02:27:04 And now they're doing this victory lap saying, well, you know,
02:27:04 --> 02:27:07 that's why we didn't spend as much money in the referendum election,
02:27:07 --> 02:27:09 because we knew the Supreme Court.
02:27:09 --> 02:27:12 You didn't know that Supreme Court was going to do that. And if you did know
02:27:12 --> 02:27:13 that, then that's a problem.
02:27:14 --> 02:27:17 You know, if you're saying you knew because of confidence, a letter of law.
02:27:18 --> 02:27:23 OK, yeah, we feel you on that. But it's like usually when Republicans and they
02:27:23 --> 02:27:28 know, that means, you know, it was already in the bag that made their phone
02:27:28 --> 02:27:30 calls or whatever the case may be.
02:27:30 --> 02:27:36 And they kind of knew how the folks were going to go or put pressure on people, whatever.
02:27:38 --> 02:27:43 But, you know, in the real world, you didn't know. You just talking smack now
02:27:43 --> 02:27:45 because you got the verdict. Right.
02:27:46 --> 02:27:50 Because I was just as confident thinking because they had allowed the election
02:27:50 --> 02:27:56 to take place and that same judge tried to stop the election and the Supreme
02:27:56 --> 02:27:59 Court said, oh, they can have it.
02:27:59 --> 02:28:02 Now, the results didn't turn out the way they wanted it. So now,
02:28:03 --> 02:28:04 no, they shouldn't have had it in the first place.
02:28:05 --> 02:28:09 Well, it was a constitutional problem now. It was a constitutional problem then.
02:28:10 --> 02:28:12 And you should have stopped it then.
02:28:13 --> 02:28:18 If you were concerned about timing, right?
02:28:18 --> 02:28:23 If you were going to play the semantics game, at least four of the justices there.
02:28:24 --> 02:28:29 So anyway, that's that. And then, you know, you got folks in Alabama,
02:28:29 --> 02:28:34 it's like storming, it's like hail going on, the Capitol is literally flooding.
02:28:35 --> 02:28:40 And them folks are in there trying to draw Black people out of their congressional districts.
02:28:42 --> 02:28:45 It's like, it's just like,
02:28:46 --> 02:28:49 on Noah's Ark. The whole world is flooding.
02:28:49 --> 02:28:56 And they're trying to take away black congressional seats, right?
02:28:57 --> 02:28:59 I mean, the lengths that these people will go through.
02:29:00 --> 02:29:05 Florida, where I understand the same day, got the sister out there,
02:29:05 --> 02:29:09 Sister Nixon out there, she got a bullhorn saying, this is unconstitutional.
02:29:10 --> 02:29:13 And they just steamrolling right through, just going ahead and do it.
02:29:13 --> 02:29:19 And that's a state that you're going to see some surprising results because
02:29:19 --> 02:29:21 it was gerrymandered to the hilt anyway.
02:29:21 --> 02:29:26 It was 20 out of 28 congressional seats. They had 20 already.
02:29:26 --> 02:29:30 And in my lifetime, Florida used to be a swing state always.
02:29:31 --> 02:29:38 And over the last, I guess, 20 years, it's flipped over strictly red.
02:29:38 --> 02:29:41 But, you know, a little blue dots here, there.
02:29:42 --> 02:29:49 But it was already gerrymandered to the hilt And now they're going to make it 24 out of 28 Well,
02:29:49 --> 02:29:54 some of them districts are going to flip Because they've had some special elections
02:29:54 --> 02:29:59 in Florida And no Republican has flipped a Democratic seat.
02:30:02 --> 02:30:09 Yeah, all the either Republicans stay pat Or they lost in the special election
02:30:09 --> 02:30:13 They lost the seat And that's not just in Florida, that's nationwide.
02:30:13 --> 02:30:19 So that's kind of like why people are trending that it's going to be a big deal.
02:30:20 --> 02:30:25 And I've had two people who I respect, their political mindsets,
02:30:25 --> 02:30:30 and they, you know, they're looking at a wave or a tsunami, right?
02:30:32 --> 02:30:38 That, you know, the House and the Senate, the Democrats are going to get control of. So, you know.
02:30:40 --> 02:30:45 Even with all these games being played, because right now, if everybody stood
02:30:45 --> 02:30:54 pat, then the House, the Republicans would have a 10-seat advantage if everything stood pat.
02:30:54 --> 02:30:59 And this was a quote-unquote normal election year. But things are not normal.
02:30:59 --> 02:31:01 Things are pretty crazy.
02:31:02 --> 02:31:09 I can't say bad because, you know, the world hasn't come to the end.
02:31:09 --> 02:31:15 The sun's going to rise tomorrow as far as we know, but it is becoming a burden.
02:31:15 --> 02:31:20 You know, gas is high, which means that food prices are high.
02:31:20 --> 02:31:24 We still got this situation over there at the Strait of Hormuz where it's like
02:31:24 --> 02:31:27 fertilizer can't even get out, right?
02:31:28 --> 02:31:32 So that's going to create problems as far as food prices.
02:31:33 --> 02:31:38 So, you know, it's just because, you know, they speculate on anticipation. patient.
02:31:38 --> 02:31:42 So it's like, if you're not having fertilizer for next year's crops,
02:31:42 --> 02:31:46 it means there's going to be a scarcity and food's going to be high.
02:31:46 --> 02:31:51 So they're speculating that and prices are going to go up to try to offset that, right?
02:31:51 --> 02:31:58 If gasoline, if oil is not being shipped out, then that limits the supply that's out there.
02:31:58 --> 02:32:04 And all those OPEC nations, they're not just voting on how much it's going to
02:32:04 --> 02:32:05 impact the United States.
02:32:05 --> 02:32:08 They're looking at the whole globe.
02:32:08 --> 02:32:13 And I think one country, and I have to go back and check, but I think one country,
02:32:13 --> 02:32:17 because they saw the trend going, they said, yeah, we're going to step away
02:32:17 --> 02:32:22 from OPIC for a minute because we don't want to be a part of that.
02:32:22 --> 02:32:27 We don't want to be part of $100 and $120 a barrel. You know what I'm saying?
02:32:29 --> 02:32:35 So, yeah, it's not a great situation by any stretch of the imagination.
02:32:37 --> 02:32:39 And a lot of people are upset.
02:32:40 --> 02:32:46 You know, we got this reflecting pool that we got to paint blue and we still
02:32:46 --> 02:32:51 talking about this ballroom and whatever P Hegseth is talking about.
02:32:51 --> 02:32:56 You know, we got Sean Duffy out here doing reality TV shows and,
02:32:56 --> 02:33:02 you know, just this whole cast of characters that seem like they're totally
02:33:02 --> 02:33:04 out of touch with what's happening.
02:33:05 --> 02:33:11 And so I think even without the redistricting attempt to try to,
02:33:12 --> 02:33:17 because it's all it is is trying to mitigate the damage that's getting ready to happen.
02:33:19 --> 02:33:26 Instead of maybe doing something politically to get people on your side, you try to cheat, right?
02:33:27 --> 02:33:33 And then all of the Southern states, see, it's not a, you know,
02:33:33 --> 02:33:41 it was Kansas here and Arizona there and Montana, you know, West Virginia, something like that.
02:33:41 --> 02:33:44 Although some people consider West Virginia Southerners now,
02:33:46 --> 02:33:47 you know, it'd be one thing.
02:33:48 --> 02:33:52 Utah, something like that, you know. But it's all the Southern states.
02:33:53 --> 02:33:57 The very reason why the Voting Rights Act was even thought about,
02:33:57 --> 02:34:05 you know, the hotbed where 50% of the black population in America live, right?
02:34:06 --> 02:34:12 All them states, you know, you want to throw Texas in, you can throw them in too.
02:34:12 --> 02:34:19 So Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, although Brian Kemp,
02:34:19 --> 02:34:23 you know, he said he won't do it because voting's already started.
02:34:23 --> 02:34:30 So that's something that the next governor will probably take up in 28 for 28 elections.
02:34:30 --> 02:34:35 You know, and he might get the ball rolling before he leaves on that.
02:34:35 --> 02:34:37 Florida, you know.
02:34:38 --> 02:34:42 Tennessee. And what a mess that is in Tennessee, right?
02:34:43 --> 02:34:49 You know, they want to carve up Memphis three ways. And the ironic thing is,
02:34:49 --> 02:34:54 is that you're trying to take away Black voters' power.
02:34:54 --> 02:34:57 You want them to dilute their power. You want to crack that district.
02:34:58 --> 02:35:02 And that district has a white representative, had a white representative for almost 20 years.
02:35:04 --> 02:35:11 Here's a district that's majority black, and they've been electing Steve Cohen,
02:35:11 --> 02:35:16 a Jewish guy, for a long time. When Harold Ford Jr.
02:35:16 --> 02:35:22 Left to run for the U.S. Senate, Steve Cohen won that special election,
02:35:22 --> 02:35:24 and he's been in the position ever since.
02:35:24 --> 02:35:27 But I don't even think it was special. It was a regular election because Harold
02:35:27 --> 02:35:28 was running for the U.S. Senate.
02:35:28 --> 02:35:34 So, yeah, you know, it's like, Like, that's crazy.
02:35:35 --> 02:35:41 You know what I'm saying? It is, you know, but they, you know,
02:35:41 --> 02:35:44 the Supreme Court said Alabama should have a second district.
02:35:45 --> 02:35:52 And, of course, Alabama legislators were fighting that. They were going to defy the Supreme Court.
02:35:53 --> 02:36:00 But, you know, Brother Figures is in there. But now that this Calais decision
02:36:00 --> 02:36:03 has kicked in, now it's like, all right, we can draw that out.
02:36:04 --> 02:36:07 They're going to try to go after Sister Sewell in Mississippi.
02:36:07 --> 02:36:11 They're going to try to go after Chairman Thompson, Louisiana.
02:36:11 --> 02:36:13 They definitely want Khalil Fields out.
02:36:14 --> 02:36:18 And are they talking about trying to get Brother Carter out too?
02:36:18 --> 02:36:22 Because just like they fan out from Memphis, they want to fan out from New Orleans.
02:36:25 --> 02:36:29 So, you know, and even the way that they're doing it in Louisiana,
02:36:29 --> 02:36:33 it looks like it's still going to be one majority black district,
02:36:33 --> 02:36:37 no matter how they try to fan it out, because Baton Rouge is like right there.
02:36:37 --> 02:36:41 And so that's really the concentration of the black vote, not unless you go up to Shreveport.
02:36:44 --> 02:36:48 And, you know, I mean, it's just amazing I mean,
02:36:49 --> 02:36:55 Mississippi is even going so far as to have The house meet in the old Capitol
02:36:55 --> 02:36:59 building And those of you who are not familiar with Mississippi There is an
02:36:59 --> 02:37:04 old Capitol building and a new Capitol building The new Capitol building,
02:37:04 --> 02:37:06 which I served in, was built in 1903,
02:37:06 --> 02:37:12 So the old Capitol building, the building where Mississippi be seceded from
02:37:12 --> 02:37:14 the Union before the Civil War, right?
02:37:15 --> 02:37:21 That's the one that the House members want to get in and draw these maps to dilute Black votes.
02:37:22 --> 02:37:28 Well, it's the same Capitol in 1890 when they took away Black votes. Same building.
02:37:28 --> 02:37:32 And they want to rush in and do it that way.
02:37:33 --> 02:37:39 I mean, when they renovated the Capitol last time, after 80 years of existence,
02:37:39 --> 02:37:43 they met in the Central High School,
02:37:43 --> 02:37:45 which is downtown, which is now the Department of Education building.
02:37:46 --> 02:37:51 And if it was just a house, they still could do it. They could use the auditorium
02:37:51 --> 02:37:53 that's in there or even the gym.
02:37:53 --> 02:37:55 They still have a full gym in there, right?
02:37:56 --> 02:38:02 And so, you know, they could have improvised and made some space.
02:38:02 --> 02:38:04 For that emergency situation.
02:38:06 --> 02:38:12 But the symbolism of going to the old Capitol to do what they did in 1890 and
02:38:12 --> 02:38:19 take away black votes or black voting power to loot ballot black voting strength.
02:38:21 --> 02:38:26 You know, and when you say that it's racist, when you say that it's a vestige
02:38:26 --> 02:38:28 of white supremacy, all these folks get upset.
02:38:28 --> 02:38:33 Oh, well, my ancestors didn't own slaves and already just yada,
02:38:33 --> 02:38:38 yada, yada, all that stuff, you know, I don't know all that.
02:38:38 --> 02:38:42 I just know that you're a white person that's a Republican down with black voting
02:38:42 --> 02:38:44 strength being diluted.
02:38:44 --> 02:38:47 And I'm not down with that. And I'm going to call you out on that.
02:38:47 --> 02:38:50 Now, you want to give me your personal history and tell me all about,
02:38:50 --> 02:38:55 you know, your folks are actually from Louisiana and they went through all this
02:38:55 --> 02:38:56 stuff to themselves and persecution.
02:38:57 --> 02:39:00 That's fine and good. But you're supporting in this day and time,
02:39:01 --> 02:39:07 right now, the actions of all these Southern Republican legislators trying to
02:39:07 --> 02:39:09 dilute Black votes. You're down with that.
02:39:11 --> 02:39:15 So, you know, if you want to be only accountable for your time,
02:39:15 --> 02:39:21 then, okay, let's deal with you and your position that this is okay.
02:39:22 --> 02:39:27 And then they want to sit there and say, well, you know, the Supreme Court said it was about party.
02:39:28 --> 02:39:30 The political parties can do it. And there's a term that the,
02:39:32 --> 02:39:37 Supreme Court put out there and where they try to say that things that are political
02:39:37 --> 02:39:42 decisions that they can't make a judicial ruling on.
02:39:43 --> 02:39:46 And I just saw the term the other day and I can't remember it,
02:39:46 --> 02:39:49 but you know, if y'all listening, y'all can let me know.
02:39:49 --> 02:39:54 But so that's where they trying to couch it at. It's like political gerrymandering is okay.
02:39:55 --> 02:40:02 Well, in the South, political gerrymandering is race gerrymandering. That's what it is.
02:40:03 --> 02:40:08 Nine out of 10 black votes go to the Democratic Party optimistically,
02:40:09 --> 02:40:15 well, conservatively, we'll say eight out of 10 white votes go to the Republican Party, right?
02:40:16 --> 02:40:22 And in some of those states where it's higher than 20% white vote for the Democrats,
02:40:23 --> 02:40:29 That's when Democrats of all stripes went statewide, right? That's what happened in Georgia.
02:40:29 --> 02:40:33 That's what happened in what's the other state, I want to say.
02:40:34 --> 02:40:40 Hadn't been too many black statewide elected officials, now that I think about it. I tried twice.
02:40:41 --> 02:40:46 You know, that's just a reality of where we are, right?
02:40:47 --> 02:40:52 And, you know, like I said, when that Supreme Court map,
02:40:52 --> 02:40:57 last week when that map came out after the Supreme Court decision in the New
02:40:57 --> 02:41:01 York Times, that sounded an alarm, you know, because it's something,
02:41:01 --> 02:41:05 it's one thing to talk about it, but to visualize it. Oh, baby.
02:41:06 --> 02:41:08 So, you know, I hope that,
02:41:10 --> 02:41:14 We show up and show out on November the 3rd.
02:41:14 --> 02:41:18 And, you know, some of the messages that you can try to change everything,
02:41:18 --> 02:41:23 like I was telling Representative Clark that, you know, the British thought
02:41:23 --> 02:41:26 they were going to win the Revolutionary War because they won some early battles.
02:41:27 --> 02:41:31 And Robert Lee was feeling good about himself early in the Civil War,
02:41:31 --> 02:41:39 but as history turns out, the good guys won, or at least the guys that brought progress.
02:41:40 --> 02:41:45 Because if it wasn't, you know, we didn't win the Revolutionary Award and King
02:41:45 --> 02:41:48 Charles was coming to check out his commonwealth.
02:41:48 --> 02:41:51 That's what would have been happening last week.
02:41:52 --> 02:41:58 You know, and we'd be the Confederate States of America if the Confederacy had won.
02:41:59 --> 02:42:05 So, nonetheless, you know, I just hope that we prevail. But yeah.
02:42:05 --> 02:42:08 In light of conversations that
02:42:08 --> 02:42:13 I've been watching on social media and even engaged in, unfortunately.
02:42:14 --> 02:42:17 Because, you know, when it comes to just screwing over black people,
02:42:17 --> 02:42:20 and I think you could tell by my commentary that I was very,
02:42:21 --> 02:42:26 very upset and very emotional about it last week.
02:42:26 --> 02:42:34 And I try to, especially now that I'm older, I try to be more, I don't know,
02:42:35 --> 02:42:40 more, I guess, you know, more calm when I make my arguments,
02:42:40 --> 02:42:44 try to take the emotionalism out.
02:42:44 --> 02:42:54 But when you've been dealing with this all your life, and I made a choice to make politics my life,
02:42:55 --> 02:43:00 it just gets frustrating, you know, that we just can't.
02:43:00 --> 02:43:06 It's just like roaches, right, or mice. You know, once you see one or two,
02:43:07 --> 02:43:13 then it's like you know that there's an infestation, and you do your best to get rid of them.
02:43:14 --> 02:43:18 You know, and most of the time you can, but it's just, you know,
02:43:19 --> 02:43:23 that if you see one raises ugly head, then, you know, there's a bunch out there.
02:43:24 --> 02:43:29 And that's kind of where I feel about racism, white supremacy in America is
02:43:29 --> 02:43:33 just like now we have an administration that embraces that.
02:43:35 --> 02:43:38 And so people are just coming out of woodwork and they're feeling frisky and
02:43:38 --> 02:43:41 free and they're just saying whatever they want to say, you know,
02:43:41 --> 02:43:42 and act in any kind of way.
02:43:43 --> 02:43:47 And that's why you've got all this activity after that Supreme Court came.
02:43:47 --> 02:43:49 Because people are, like I said,
02:43:49 --> 02:43:51 feeling frisky and free and they're going to do what they want to do.
02:43:52 --> 02:43:58 You know, but, you know, I made my appeal last week to just leave us alone.
02:43:59 --> 02:44:05 If you just let things go naturally, it's going to happen.
02:44:06 --> 02:44:12 You know, it may turn out like basketball, where once you let black folks in,
02:44:12 --> 02:44:16 we kind of took it over, or even football for that matter, right?
02:44:16 --> 02:44:21 But, you know, sometimes, like in baseball, maybe not.
02:44:21 --> 02:44:25 You know, most of the black players that play in Major League Baseball now are
02:44:25 --> 02:44:26 not from the United States.
02:44:27 --> 02:44:31 Most of the soccer players are not from the United States. So,
02:44:31 --> 02:44:37 you know, if you just let things happen naturally, things are going to happen.
02:44:38 --> 02:44:41 Talent is talent. They're going to get picked, and they're going to play,
02:44:42 --> 02:44:44 right? Or at least make the team.
02:44:47 --> 02:44:51 So I just wish people looked at politics that way, but politics is,
02:44:51 --> 02:44:53 you know, that's all about power.
02:44:54 --> 02:44:58 One thing about entertainment, But it's a whole nother thing about power.
02:44:58 --> 02:45:05 And so, you know, these folks, until racism is actually a crime,
02:45:05 --> 02:45:07 they're going to do what they want to do.
02:45:08 --> 02:45:13 They're going to try to skew it in a way where they always maintain power.
02:45:13 --> 02:45:17 They've had to cede some political power. They're trying to figure out how they
02:45:17 --> 02:45:25 can unseat it, right, how they can dilute it even more. But the economic power,
02:45:25 --> 02:45:27 that's a whole nother conversation, right?
02:45:28 --> 02:45:32 And that was really the goal of black politics was to build black wealth.
02:45:33 --> 02:45:39 I don't think it's a secret, but that was the objective.
02:45:39 --> 02:45:44 If we could get political power, then we can build economic power.
02:45:45 --> 02:45:49 And, you know, because we actually tried to do it in reverse.
02:45:49 --> 02:45:56 And because of the political power, the power of the state, black businesses got burned down, right?
02:45:56 --> 02:45:59 Or black people that were trying to lead an exodus got put in jail.
02:46:00 --> 02:46:09 But, or assassinated, right? And so we were like, okay, let's get some basic things down.
02:46:09 --> 02:46:17 Let's be able to vote. Let's be able to go to a restaurant and sit at the counter.
02:46:17 --> 02:46:20 Let's go to a department store through the front door, right?
02:46:20 --> 02:46:23 Just basic stuff. Let's sit anywhere we want on the bus.
02:46:23 --> 02:46:27 Let's go to the public swimming pool or the beach. You know,
02:46:27 --> 02:46:31 it's just certain basic things we wanted first. And then once we got that,
02:46:31 --> 02:46:34 it's like, okay, now the next step is to vote, right?
02:46:35 --> 02:46:37 And then housing, right?
02:46:38 --> 02:46:42 So, I mean, you know, we had to do all these things in steps.
02:46:43 --> 02:46:51 And we had to bum rush poor Lyndon Johnson to try to get as much as we could while he was at office.
02:46:51 --> 02:46:56 Because he only served one term, as fate would have it. So, yeah.
02:46:57 --> 02:47:04 You know, but, you know, if you just let us do our thing, we'll be OK and a
02:47:04 --> 02:47:06 nation would be better for it. Right.
02:47:07 --> 02:47:17 So, you know, I made my appeal, but I wanted to read something and close it out with this.
02:47:18 --> 02:47:26 This was George White, who was the only black congressman in Congress after
02:47:26 --> 02:47:27 Reconstruction. Right.
02:47:28 --> 02:47:31 For a point. And he left.
02:47:32 --> 02:47:41 In 1901. And so I'm just going to read his conclusion, which is much more eloquent
02:47:41 --> 02:47:46 than my ranting and raving last week, but it gets to the same point.
02:47:46 --> 02:47:51 And so some of the language, of course, I will use is dated to 1901.
02:47:52 --> 02:47:58 But he was concluding his farewell address with this. Mr.
02:47:58 --> 02:48:04 Chairman, before concluding my remarks, I want to submit a brief recipe for
02:48:04 --> 02:48:07 the solution of the so-called American Negro problem.
02:48:07 --> 02:48:12 He asks no special favors, but simply demands that he be given the same chance
02:48:12 --> 02:48:16 for existence, for earning a livelihood,
02:48:17 --> 02:48:22 for raising himself in the scales of manhood and womanhood that are accorded
02:48:22 --> 02:48:24 to kindred nationalities.
02:48:24 --> 02:48:26 Treat him as a man.
02:48:27 --> 02:48:32 Go into his home and learn of his social conditions. Learn of his cares,
02:48:32 --> 02:48:36 his troubles, and his hopes for the future. Gain his confidence.
02:48:37 --> 02:48:41 Open the doors of industry to him. Let the word Negro, colored,
02:48:41 --> 02:48:46 and black be stricken from all the organizations enumerated in the Federation of Labor.
02:48:48 --> 02:48:54 Help him to overcome his weakness, punish the crime-committing class by the
02:48:54 --> 02:48:59 courts of the land, and measure the standard of the race by its best material.
02:49:00 --> 02:49:07 Cease to mold prejudicial and unjust public sentiment against them.
02:49:07 --> 02:49:13 And my word for it, he will learn to support, hold up the hands of,
02:49:13 --> 02:49:17 and join in with that political party, that institution,
02:49:17 --> 02:49:22 whether secular or religious, in every community where he lives,
02:49:22 --> 02:49:26 which is destined to do the greatest good for the greatest number.
02:49:27 --> 02:49:33 Obliterate race hatred, party prejudice, and help us to achieve nobler ends,
02:49:34 --> 02:49:40 greater results, and become satisfactory citizens to our brother in white.
02:49:41 --> 02:49:47 This, Mr. Chairman, is perhaps the Negro's temporary farewell to the American Congress.
02:49:47 --> 02:49:53 But let me say, Phoenix-like, he will rise up someday and come again.
02:49:53 --> 02:49:57 These parting words are in behalf of an outraged, heartbroken,
02:49:58 --> 02:50:05 bruised, and bleeding, but God-fearing people, faithful, industrious, loyal people,
02:50:06 --> 02:50:10 rising people, full of potential force. Mr.
02:50:10 --> 02:50:15 Chairman, in the trial of Lord Bacon, when the court disturbed the counsel for the defendant,
02:50:16 --> 02:50:21 Sir Walter Raleigh raised himself up to his full height and addressing the court
02:50:21 --> 02:50:26 said, Sir, I am pleading for the life of a human being.
02:50:26 --> 02:50:34 The only apology that I have to make for the earnestness with which I have spoken
02:50:34 --> 02:50:37 is that I am pleading for the life,
02:50:37 --> 02:50:44 the liberty, the future happiness, and manhood suffrage for one-eighth of the
02:50:44 --> 02:50:46 entire population of the United States.
02:50:48 --> 02:50:53 Ladies and gentlemen, Brother White's, Congressman White's remarks,
02:50:53 --> 02:51:01 even though they were made in 1901, are salient 125 years later.
02:51:01 --> 02:51:08 And it just goes back to the theme from last week. Just leave us alone. Let us thrive.
02:51:09 --> 02:51:13 Let us go forth and do what we want to do.
02:51:13 --> 02:51:19 And this country will be great. This country will be everything that it's supposed to be.
02:51:21 --> 02:51:24 All right, on that note, ladies and gentlemen, let me end it.
02:51:24 --> 02:51:27 Thank you all for listening, and until next time.