In this, the 300th episode of A Moment with Erik Fleming, Elizabeth and Deevon La Rue, owners of Silleck Consulting Services, talk about the steps needed for those considering emigrating from the United States. Then artist Eric Drooker, author of the graphic novel Naked City, discusses his book and the importance of supporting the arts.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NVG Podcast Network.
00:01:16 --> 00:02:03 Music.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:29 Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, and Happy Kwanzaa in a moment with Eric Fleming. Thank you.
00:02:01 --> 00:02:06 We'll see you next time. Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:13 I am your host, Eric Fleming. This is a very, very special episode because this
00:02:13 --> 00:02:18 is the 300th episode of A Moment with Eric Fleming.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:30 I did not imagine that me ranting into my phone after I was Ubering people about
00:02:30 --> 00:02:36 then President Trump would lead to 300 episodes.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:42 But here we are. And the main reason is you, the listening audience,
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 want to thank you all for supporting this podcast.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:51 The few and the proud, as they say in the Marine Corps, I want to thank you
00:02:51 --> 00:02:55 all for for the feedback, the support, the uplift.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:04 And just being the motivation to keep this thing going for as long as I've been able to do it.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 And I've had a lot of help along the way.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:12 I've met a whole lot of new friends and people through it.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:17 And it's given me some access to do some things that I hadn't had in a long
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 time, especially in the political world.
00:03:20 --> 00:03:29 So, yeah, this has been a great ride. And I thank you all immensely for making that happen.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:35 But this is a regular podcast as well. And so I have two amazing guests,
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 really three, because I have a husband and wife team.
00:03:39 --> 00:03:47 Somebody, the wife has been on the show before, but I get an added treat with the husband coming on.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:52 And then the, well, at least that's the plan.
00:03:55 --> 00:03:59 Because they're in another country. So we got to make sure everything's good.
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 But as far as I know, that's the plan.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:07 And then I have an author of a very unique book, a graphic novel,
00:04:07 --> 00:04:10 which is really, really very compelling.
00:04:10 --> 00:04:14 Not just the story, but the artwork itself is pretty awesome.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:20 So I'm really, really honored to have those guests. and I'm really,
00:04:20 --> 00:04:25 really honored to have you all listen in on this 300th episode.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:34 And I hope that you all enjoy it and Lord willing, we'll put together a few more.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:39 I don't know if we'll do another 300 episodes, but we'll see what happens.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:46 We're just glad that, I'm glad that the podcast has made it to this point.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:54 So anyway, As always, it's time to start off this podcast with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:04:55 --> 00:05:03 Music.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:06 And congratulations on recording your 300th episode
00:05:06 --> 00:05:09 president-elect donald trump lost a
00:05:09 --> 00:05:12 bid to overturn his criminal conviction related to
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 hush money payments a georgia appeals court
00:05:15 --> 00:05:20 disqualified fulton county da fanny willis from further prosecuting trump and
00:05:20 --> 00:05:25 his allies in their election interference case president joe biden pardoned
00:05:25 --> 00:05:33 39 individuals for non-violent crimes and commuted sentences for nearly 1 others. The U.S.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 House Ethics Committee plans to release its report on former Representative
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 Matt Gaetz soon, despite his resignation from Congress.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:46 A 15-year-old girl fatally shot a student and a teacher, wounded six others,
00:05:46 --> 00:05:49 and then killed herself in a Wisconsin school shooting.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:55 South Korean President Yoon Suk-yeol vowed to fight for his position after being
00:05:55 --> 00:05:57 impeached by a second vote of Parliament.
00:05:57 --> 00:06:03 A federal appeals court denied TikTok's request for more time to block a law
00:06:03 --> 00:06:07 mandating ByteDance's divestment by January 19th.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:12 Former FBI informant Alexander Smirnov pled guilty to falsifying records about
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 President Biden and admitted to tax evasion.
00:06:15 --> 00:06:20 President-elect Trump filed a lawsuit against the Des Moines Register and its
00:06:20 --> 00:06:23 former pollster for alleged election interference.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:29 ABC News agreed to pay $15 million to Trump's presidential library to settle
00:06:29 --> 00:06:33 a lawsuit over comments made by anchor George Stephanopoulos.
00:06:33 --> 00:06:39 Officials from the White House, FBI, and DHS clarified that most recent drone
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 sightings in New Jersey and nearby states were manned aircraft,
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 posing no national security threat.
00:06:45 --> 00:06:50 Former U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is recovering from a successful hip replacement
00:06:50 --> 00:06:54 surgery after she was hospitalized in Luxembourg following an injury.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:59 And the late Shirley Chisholm, the first African-American woman to serve in
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 Congress, was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:07:05 --> 00:07:12 Music.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:18 Thank you, Grace, for that Moment of News, and thank you for the congratulations.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:24 This time that we've been working together has been special,
00:07:24 --> 00:07:29 and I appreciate how you've contributed and made this podcast better.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:38 All right, so now it's time for my first guest, and it's actually a bonus.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:45 So Elizabeth Silic LaRue has been on the program before, but this time she has
00:07:45 --> 00:07:50 asked her husband, Devon LaRue, to come on.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:56 And so this is, from what I understand, this is going to be a treat.
00:07:56 --> 00:08:00 Hopefully Devon will be on. He said he was going to be there. So Elizabeth.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:04 I'm going to do the introduction as if he's going to be there, too.
00:08:05 --> 00:08:10 Elizabeth Sillick LaRue Esquire, a consultant working toward environmental conservation
00:08:10 --> 00:08:16 policy, and her husband, Devon LaRue, a visual storyteller who focuses on inclusive
00:08:16 --> 00:08:19 outdoor recreation and social justice,
00:08:20 --> 00:08:22 emigrated from the U.S.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:27 In 2020, making their home in Mexico. In addition to helping organizations and
00:08:27 --> 00:08:33 mission-based companies make progress toward equity-centered environmental conservation,
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 the firm counsels U.S.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:42 Citizens on how to prepare and plan for immigration in a way that considers
00:08:42 --> 00:08:46 and minimizes negative impacts on their planned destinations.
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 They focus in particular on helping people in the U.S.
00:08:50 --> 00:08:55 Who feel targeted during their due to their identities, immigrate to places
00:08:55 --> 00:08:59 where they can experience more peace, safety and agency.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:05 For more information about Conscientious Immigration Consulting Services,
00:09:05 --> 00:09:13 please go to www.celecconsultingservices.com backslash immigration support.
00:09:14 --> 00:09:22 And we will get into details about what exactly is Conscientious Immigration
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 and all that during the interview.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:30 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as guests
00:09:30 --> 00:09:35 on this podcast, Elizabeth and Yvonne LaRue.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:46 Music.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 All right. Elizabeth Selick LaRue. How are you doing, my friend? You doing good?
00:09:52 --> 00:09:57 I'm doing well. How about you? I'm doing lovely. Feliz Navidad to you.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 Thank you. Back at you. And we...
00:10:01 --> 00:10:05 Yeah, I'm glad you're on because we need to talk about some options for some people,
00:10:08 --> 00:10:12 as we're getting close to the inauguration day. But I understand that you've
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 got somebody, a friend with you that is going to help you with this interview today.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:23 Yeah, you could actually, yes, he is my best friend as well as my spouse and business partner.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:29 So yeah, my husband, Devon West LaRue, we call him Wes,
00:10:29 --> 00:10:37 is here joining me because we did this emigration journey together and our family
00:10:37 --> 00:10:43 and our marriage and our the composition of our family was a big driving force and why we left the U.S.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:50 So I figured it would be good for him to tune in and pitch in rather and talk
00:10:50 --> 00:10:52 about his experience with emigration.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:55 So go ahead. Thank you for having me. You want me to start now?
00:10:56 --> 00:10:58 Well, just say hi. Hello. Hello to everyone.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 All right, Wes. Well, it's an honor to meet you, brother.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:10 And I know that she's kind of the analytical one and you're kind of the creative one and stuff.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:16 So I know that's a powerful combination when y'all can work together and be
00:11:16 --> 00:11:22 in sync. And Mexico is blessed to have y'all wish I could have stayed here in the United States.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:28 But, you know, but we we we're going to talk about giving some people some options.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 So how so like I always do, we're going to break the ice with a quote.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:37 So this is the quote. Your birthplace doesn't have to be your prison.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:43 Your passport is your power and the future is yours to define.
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 What is that quote? move y'all.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:53 Well, what resonates the most to me is your birthplace doesn't have to be your prison.
00:11:54 --> 00:12:00 And I think that actually, that can even go for domestic relocation, right?
00:12:01 --> 00:12:07 Because I think that's something that at least for me growing up in New York
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 in a working class slash poor environment.
00:12:12 --> 00:12:19 There was, you know, over attachment, I think, to neighborhoods and communities
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 and particularly New Yorkers.
00:12:21 --> 00:12:26 You know, we tend to be a little bit egocentric and think that New York is the
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 best place in the world and it's not worth going anyplace else.
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 And, you know, for a lot of people, it is a prison.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:37 And, you know, in the international context of what we're talking about right
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 now, where the United States is moving more toward.
00:12:43 --> 00:12:49 Frankly, fascism, having been born there can absolutely feel like a prison.
00:12:49 --> 00:12:57 And specifically, if you have identities that are being targeted by this incoming administration.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:04 So, yeah, that resonates a lot. Do you want to talk about the passport aspect of it?
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 And, you know, she's like, she's actually, actually correct.
00:13:09 --> 00:13:16 The passport aspect of it for me was a huge door, you know, that opened for me.
00:13:16 --> 00:13:21 And, you know, up until 2021, I have never had a passport.
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 Before that, I'd never been out of the country. You know, I'd never been on an airplane.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:30 I've never experienced life outside of the United States, Florida to be specific.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:39 So it was definitely an eye-opener and it really opens your mind to the world
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 around you and you don't feel so stuck anymore.
00:13:42 --> 00:13:46 You're like, okay, so there is something outside of this state.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 There's something outside of this country. There are people,
00:13:50 --> 00:13:54 you know, outside of where you are that are living life,
00:13:54 --> 00:14:02 living it in a lot of ways better, you know, and that's that was my interpretation of that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:03 --> 00:14:07 Yeah. It's a very it was pretty powerful when I pulled it up and I said,
00:14:07 --> 00:14:11 yeah, I'm going to throw this one at them. I think they they'll appreciate that.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:16 So what is conscientious emigration?
00:14:17 --> 00:14:24 Yeah, thank you for asking that question. So I think I'll start with what it isn't.
00:14:26 --> 00:14:33 So, you know, your listeners probably have a sense for the fact that throughout the world,
00:14:33 --> 00:14:39 United States citizens when traveling have developed a pretty poor reputation
00:14:39 --> 00:14:44 in the way that we approach being in other people's spaces.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:51 And I can say for the most part, this is a United States thing.
00:14:51 --> 00:14:56 It's not necessarily a gender thing or a race thing or a class thing.
00:14:56 --> 00:15:01 I think overall, all, you know, I think people from the United States have tended
00:15:01 --> 00:15:07 to move in ways that are just sort of oblivious to the way that they impact
00:15:07 --> 00:15:13 others or just out and out disrespectful and hostile or, you know, entitled.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:19 And so part of that relates to that.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:26 And then another part of that relates to the more systemic and harmful ways
00:15:26 --> 00:15:31 that not just people from the United States, but I think people from wealthier
00:15:31 --> 00:15:34 countries, like the global north, so to speak.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:40 Tend to move into places where the cost of living is lower,
00:15:41 --> 00:15:47 oftentimes former colonies like Mexico, where we live, and sort of replicate
00:15:47 --> 00:15:52 those patterns of colonialism, you know, whereby they might,
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 let's say, for example, tear down some forests to build a huge home that they
00:15:57 --> 00:15:59 don't even stay in all year,
00:15:59 --> 00:16:06 you know, where they force their own cultural expectations and needs on communities
00:16:06 --> 00:16:11 and, you know, kind of change the character of the communities and drive the prices up.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 So, you know, I like to refer to it as international gentrification.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:22 So I think when I decided that I wanted to counsel people and give them advice
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 and give them support and help them emigrate from the United States,
00:16:25 --> 00:16:30 I only really wanted to work with people who cared about their impact and the
00:16:30 --> 00:16:38 way that they were moving in the countries that they wanted to move to, because part of the
00:16:38 --> 00:16:43 Part of the reason I think that there is actually some level of backlash and
00:16:43 --> 00:16:49 distaste for people from the United States moving into other countries is,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 or even visiting tourism,
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 right, is that people are not moving conscientiously and they're not,
00:16:55 --> 00:16:59 you know, not being good guests, not being good residents, not being good citizens.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:06 And so I really wanted to make sure that when the people that I work with moved
00:17:06 --> 00:17:10 to the new homes that they were targeting,
00:17:10 --> 00:17:14 that they were doing so with their impacts in mind,
00:17:14 --> 00:17:19 trying to minimize their impacts or minimize negative impacts and contribute
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 and provide some sort of benefits.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:27 And I don't mean, you know, building a factory and quote unquote creating jobs.
00:17:28 --> 00:17:33 So, yeah, conscientious immigration is basically what it sounds like,
00:17:34 --> 00:17:36 emigrating in a conscientious manner.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:41 Wes, did you want to add something to that or is that good? No, that's perfect.
00:17:43 --> 00:17:48 So, in other words, you're basically telling folks when y'all go through your
00:17:48 --> 00:17:52 process, it's like, look, don't act like tourists.
00:17:52 --> 00:18:00 Get to know the community that you plan on living in, blend in instead of standing out, right?
00:18:01 --> 00:18:07 Yeah, I mean, assimilation is part of it, but also I think, frankly,
00:18:07 --> 00:18:11 there's some places that I just will not advise people to move to because they
00:18:11 --> 00:18:15 are already facing so much unwelcome change.
00:18:16 --> 00:18:20 Like, for example, Mexico City, right? We're in Mexico in the Yucatan Peninsula
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 area in Cozumel, which is an island.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:31 But like Mexico City has seen a huge influx of digital nomads,
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 you know, quote unquote expats, retirees.
00:18:35 --> 00:18:42 And they have faced a really serious issue with skyrocketing housing costs.
00:18:42 --> 00:18:46 They already have, you know, like really bad congestion in the roads.
00:18:46 --> 00:18:52 And then there's been some problems in terms of like changing the character
00:18:52 --> 00:18:59 of neighborhoods, you know, all of the stores starting to cater to the expats
00:18:59 --> 00:19:01 and the retirees over the local people.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:03 And this is happening globally, right? Right.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:09 But in the context of Mexico, like as a former colony of Spain,
00:19:09 --> 00:19:11 it's particularly sensitive.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 And so, you know, when I talk to people and they're like, oh,
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 Mexico City, I'm like, you know,
00:19:16 --> 00:19:21 part of part of this this counseling is actually let's reconsider that.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 Right. Let's like, is there some reason why it has to be there?
00:19:24 --> 00:19:29 Because if there's not a reason why it has to be there, then maybe don't add
00:19:29 --> 00:19:35 to the problem. So it's not just a matter of like when you go someplace, behave yourself.
00:19:35 --> 00:19:40 It's also think about the someplace that you're going and whether you really
00:19:40 --> 00:19:44 need to be there and whether your presence there is really appropriate at this time.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:49 Yeah, because I, you know, it's interesting you said Mexico City,
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 because I would have thought Monterey would probably be the city that would
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 catch it the most since it's the closest.
00:19:55 --> 00:20:00 And and you know it's closest like huge city to the united states and really,
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 well city that where we are is i guess is getting very big
00:20:04 --> 00:20:07 now but when i went monterey was
00:20:07 --> 00:20:12 kind of the the closest big city to the united states and i would figure that
00:20:12 --> 00:20:16 they would because they were already kind of experiencing a little bit of that
00:20:16 --> 00:20:20 with all the strip clubs that were showing up there that was that was kind of
00:20:20 --> 00:20:24 a thing that was like their fastest growing industry when i visited And that's
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 been, God, that's been 20 years ago.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:34 So, yeah. So anyway, but that's interesting that you highlight Mexico City.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:40 So let's get into what is the difference between an expatriate and an expat?
00:20:41 --> 00:20:43 You mean an immigrant and an expat?
00:20:44 --> 00:20:49 Yeah. So, yeah, the way I was doing my research, they said there's a difference
00:20:49 --> 00:20:54 between an expat as opposed to an expatriate.
00:20:54 --> 00:21:00 Because because, well, well, I think expat is short for expatriate,
00:21:00 --> 00:21:04 but well, yeah, well, that's what I was thinking, too.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:10 But let me so so let's talk about that, because when I was doing the research,
00:21:10 --> 00:21:15 it said that an expatriate, if you use the whole term, that means you fully
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 committed that you're in and you're not going back to the United States.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:24 You've been you've gone all through the steps to be a citizen somewhere else,
00:21:25 --> 00:21:29 whereas an expat is like these people you're talking about in Mexico City that
00:21:29 --> 00:21:36 is like they're they're digital nomads or they're accompanied and sent them down there. And so.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:42 Yeah. Yeah. I think that the term.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:49 So I think both terms have become sort of fluid and not necessarily clearly defined.
00:21:49 --> 00:21:55 And from what I understand, expatriates, to your point about like permanent,
00:21:55 --> 00:22:00 it's sort of, you know, I'm relinquishing my relationship with my original,
00:22:00 --> 00:22:04 my country of origin. And.
00:22:05 --> 00:22:12 And then there has been sort of an evolution where it only referred to people
00:22:12 --> 00:22:18 whose jobs actually sent them to go work with the understanding that they would return.
00:22:18 --> 00:22:25 And then people who, you know, are now just, I guess you could say global citizens,
00:22:25 --> 00:22:29 right, who bounce around from country to country are utilizing the term to refer to themselves.
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 I think personally, I just steer away from that term altogether.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:40 Like, unless you really are somebody who is sent by your company to go work
00:22:40 --> 00:22:44 for some, you know, for some discreet amount of time in another country,
00:22:44 --> 00:22:45 knowing you're coming back.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:51 Like, I think that's probably the most legitimate characterization of expat.
00:22:51 --> 00:22:56 But when I'm talking about people who are wanting to leave the United States,
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 and that's the only people that I really work with.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 I don't, you know, I'm not working with people that want to leave other countries,
00:23:01 --> 00:23:06 but wanting to leave the United States and don't know whether they're going
00:23:06 --> 00:23:11 to come back or not, you know, but are thinking more in terms of permanent relocation.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:15 I talk about emigration because really, you know.
00:23:16 --> 00:23:20 That's the way that I think we should be thinking about our presence in other
00:23:20 --> 00:23:25 countries, because I think the way that the term expat has evolved,
00:23:25 --> 00:23:27 and a lot of people have written about this and talked about this,
00:23:27 --> 00:23:33 that the way that people have been using the term expat is to differentiate
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 themselves from immigrants.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 It's because immigrants, you know, the term immigration, insanely,
00:23:42 --> 00:23:46 somehow, the term immigration has taken on a negative connotation.
00:23:46 --> 00:23:51 And particularly in the United States, I think a lot of U.S.
00:23:51 --> 00:23:58 Born people consider, like, sort of attach these characteristics to immigrants
00:23:58 --> 00:24:01 that they don't want to be associated with. Right.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:06 Like some people fleeing people that don't have a lot of resources.
00:24:06 --> 00:24:11 And so, you know, I think it's just it's just sort of an elitist way of differentiating
00:24:11 --> 00:24:14 themselves from immigrants.
00:24:14 --> 00:24:19 And so I don't I don't really even deal in those those terms.
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 Like I talk about immigration, understanding that, you know,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:26 people may not become permanent immigrants from the United States.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:30 They may go live someplace for a year and decide, no, you know, this isn't for me.
00:24:31 --> 00:24:38 But nevertheless, like, for example, I'm never going to advise people to move someplace illegally.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:44 Right. So when I'm talking about immigration, I'm assuming you're going to get
00:24:44 --> 00:24:48 a visa if a visa is required and be there residing,
00:24:49 --> 00:24:55 whether it's temporarily or permanently in compliance with the immigration laws and all of that.
00:24:55 --> 00:25:01 So, yeah, I mean, I think expat, the term expat will eventually sort of fall
00:25:01 --> 00:25:06 out of favor as people start to realize that it's not meaningful and it's and
00:25:06 --> 00:25:08 it's really just elitist. I got you.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 All right. So what's what are the pros or cons to immigration?
00:25:13 --> 00:25:19 Wes, I want Wes to start it off because I. Okay, go ahead, Wes.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:20 Since he's not a gracious.
00:25:22 --> 00:25:27 Well, shoot. I'm actually just going to go off the information we wrote. See, good news.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:34 We highlighted dignity, healing, enhancement, or enhanced quality of life and
00:25:34 --> 00:25:35 possible affordability.
00:25:35 --> 00:25:43 For me, the dignity part was or is a major factor in why I decided or why I
00:25:43 --> 00:25:49 decided to join Liz in moving, you know, and I tell people, it's like this was her idea.
00:25:49 --> 00:25:56 You know, this wasn't this wasn't my idea, but I saw the benefits of receipt
00:25:56 --> 00:26:00 or getting back what I basically had lost in the U.S.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:08 And that was a, you know, a sense of manhood in a way, and also a sense of just
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 being able to live without having to look over my shoulder.
00:26:12 --> 00:26:18 So, you know, what being in Mexico has done and being around the people here
00:26:18 --> 00:26:20 and just getting to know,
00:26:20 --> 00:26:26 you know, how people operate here, it's based on, you know, it's based on a
00:26:26 --> 00:26:28 lot of, you know, what do you call,
00:26:28 --> 00:26:33 not factors, but good characteristics, you know, that, you know.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 Not eye for an eye, well, I was not going to say that.
00:26:37 --> 00:26:42 But, you know, it's very genuine. It's very genuine. And I feel that people
00:26:42 --> 00:26:47 aren't really trying to hold something over you. I haven't gotten that feeling.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:51 The healing part, you know, I can actually get in water.
00:26:52 --> 00:26:56 That's been the biggest thing is healing my skin.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:02 And being able to set foot in the ocean because we do ocean conservation where
00:27:02 --> 00:27:03 we do a coral restoration.
00:27:03 --> 00:27:08 So, you know, it requires getting in the water and me having eczema,
00:27:08 --> 00:27:13 if there is a bad flare up or, you know, something that causes huge stress,
00:27:14 --> 00:27:20 whatever it may be, I can break out and I can be, you know, itching all over,
00:27:20 --> 00:27:25 inflammation and not be able to get in the water because it's just so uncomfortable.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:32 So it's dignity, healing, of course, enhanced quality of life. I mean, it's Mexico.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:41 And it's island life. I didn't know I was going to become an island boy or be on island time.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:45 And it's a real thing. But the quality of life,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:49 I couldn't, I really couldn't imagine it being in the States,
00:27:49 --> 00:27:54 how it is, how it is now to what Florida was like, or, you know,
00:27:54 --> 00:27:58 originally I'm from Virginia, but what Florida was like in the grand scheme
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 of things for me was more.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:04 It felt, you know, it felt like jail, you know, it felt like,
00:28:04 --> 00:28:08 you know, it reminds me of the quote that you that you said earlier.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:13 It was like a jail, like a prison and, you know, not seeing a way out.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:19 On my own, you know, I just felt like, man, I'm just going to be stuck here forever.
00:28:19 --> 00:28:25 There is no option of leaving the state. There is no option of leaving the country.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:29 You know, one of the prerequisites, which goes in the bad news,
00:28:29 --> 00:28:35 is for getting your passport is not having child support arrears, which I had.
00:28:36 --> 00:28:42 I had $13 of child support arrears that I couldn't pay for.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:47 To get your passport. just to get my passport. That doesn't include,
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 you know, getting visas and, you know, filling out all the paperwork,
00:28:50 --> 00:28:55 heading to consulates, doing APA steals and all those things, just the passport.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:01 So I was literally locked, you know, I was literally U.S. locked.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:08 And that was, man, that was really the biggest thing for me. Yeah.
00:29:09 --> 00:29:14 Well, I was just going to say, I wanted to add to the healing aspect because
00:29:14 --> 00:29:20 Wes talked about his eczema, which is, you know, definitely it's an inflammatory
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 condition that is exacerbated by stress.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:29 And the healing part was huge for me also, because I have, I have still have anxiety,
00:29:29 --> 00:29:37 like generalized anxiety, but also like my anxiety would often manifest in like
00:29:37 --> 00:29:41 muscle spasms, right? So I had bad back, like a bad neck.
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 I mean, I was always hurting. I was always going to the chiropractor.
00:29:45 --> 00:29:49 You know, I was just physically always hurting and in pain because of the stress.
00:29:49 --> 00:29:56 And that has been the biggest relief, I think, is just like the ability to wake
00:29:56 --> 00:30:02 up every day and not feel like my amygdala is on overdrive and just, you know,
00:30:02 --> 00:30:07 stress hormones flooding my body and tensing up and all of that that's been
00:30:07 --> 00:30:13 the biggest thing i think yeah i want one more thing i do when i let him let him go ahead i'm sorry.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:18 Well, I was going to say, you know, one thing that I that we discovered is we
00:30:18 --> 00:30:20 no longer trigger each other's triggers.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 Yeah. You know, we don't fight as much.
00:30:25 --> 00:30:28 I have anxiety as well. And, you know, that would clash a lot.
00:30:29 --> 00:30:32 Yeah. Or just due to the the amygdala.
00:30:32 --> 00:30:40 That's true. Our relationship has gotten a lot, lot more harmonious and less, less contentious.
00:30:41 --> 00:30:45 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, that makes the argument, because I was going to
00:30:45 --> 00:30:49 ask, why did y'all feel that you needed to leave?
00:30:50 --> 00:30:53 One of the things, and you've touched on that a lot in your writing,
00:30:54 --> 00:30:59 Elizabeth, and I encourage people to kind of go back and read that.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:05 Because the one thing, if y'all remember, audience, from the first time I had
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 Elizabeth on, we talked about the fact that she's in an interracial marriage.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:14 And one of the pieces that drew my attention was why
00:31:14 --> 00:31:17 i'm explaining why you had to explain that you were
00:31:17 --> 00:31:20 a white woman i was like what what is this let me read this
00:31:20 --> 00:31:23 so that that i said why
00:31:23 --> 00:31:28 does she need to explain it so i i get that and i want the the audience to kind
00:31:28 --> 00:31:33 of you know read into why you know a lot of the struggles that you and wes went
00:31:33 --> 00:31:35 through when y'all first got married
00:31:35 --> 00:31:40 And I'm glad that this experience has brought y'all closer together.
00:31:40 --> 00:31:44 Yeah. Maybe I should have left the country too, but that's another story in
00:31:44 --> 00:31:45 another show. So anyway.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:47 It will save your marriage.
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 So let's get into...
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 I was going to get into some technical stuff, but let me let me get into some
00:31:57 --> 00:32:03 just some basic conversation. So a lot of people are talking about this subject
00:32:03 --> 00:32:05 because of the election. Right.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:10 And some people have talked about it eight years ago. And, you know,
00:32:10 --> 00:32:11 some people kind of did it.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:15 And there's been some podcasts, especially some black women who have gone on
00:32:15 --> 00:32:19 and they've done, you know, documented their journey, leaving the country and all that.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 But the question I'm going to ask you as experts in this field is,
00:32:24 --> 00:32:28 should someone leave their home country just because the person they wanted
00:32:28 --> 00:32:32 to win didn't win the election in their respective country?
00:32:35 --> 00:32:41 I think that's a very identity based question, you know, like,
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 I mean, should somebody do it?
00:32:44 --> 00:32:49 Look, I'm of the mind. I come from immigrants, right? Like, I'm of the mind
00:32:49 --> 00:32:54 that everybody has the right to migrate if they choose and they shouldn't have
00:32:54 --> 00:32:57 to really necessarily explain it to anyone.
00:32:57 --> 00:33:03 I mean, you know, so that's the perspective that I'm coming from. Like, sure.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:11 Yeah, why not? But whether it's actually like imperative and whether it's a
00:33:11 --> 00:33:14 matter of safety and health and, you know,
00:33:14 --> 00:33:20 really emigrating because where you are is no longer really tenable,
00:33:20 --> 00:33:22 I think really boils down to identity.
00:33:22 --> 00:33:29 And I have clients, most of my clients for conscientious immigration consulting
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 services have been either queer or.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:42 Black or both. And I do have clients that are not any of those things, right?
00:33:42 --> 00:33:47 But, you know, because maybe they're Jewish and they're living in a very MAGA-centric
00:33:47 --> 00:33:51 territory or, you know, different factors.
00:33:51 --> 00:33:55 But most of the people that have contacted me and that I'm working with are
00:33:55 --> 00:34:01 people that are high up on the list of those who will be targeted by this administration.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:06 And so if that's the case, yes, like if you can.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:10 And I mean, you know, people have different opinions and perspectives on this.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:16 But I think that if you have the means to do it and, you know,
00:34:16 --> 00:34:23 you're really suffering from the fear and the anxiety and and eventually,
00:34:23 --> 00:34:27 I mean, let's be honest, like we know that there are going to be people who will be persecuted.
00:34:28 --> 00:34:32 And if you know that you're somebody that falls into that category and you can
00:34:32 --> 00:34:33 leave, I think you should.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:39 But, you know, I mean, the thing is, it's everybody's individual calculus.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:46 And when people come to me and ask me to help them determine whether or where to go,
00:34:46 --> 00:34:51 whether to go, when to go, how to go, the answer might be for some people,
00:34:51 --> 00:34:54 well, you know what, like you're not well situated to actually leave the country.
00:34:54 --> 00:34:56 You know, maybe they don't have money.
00:34:57 --> 00:35:00 Maybe their health conditions will be prohibitive.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:05 Maybe they just, you know, are the type of people that need a lot of community
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 around them and they're not going to have that.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:12 And it might be more stress than the situation they're in now.
00:35:12 --> 00:35:16 It's going to vary by individual and individual family, really.
00:35:16 --> 00:35:21 You know, there's no one general answer. Do you want to add to that?
00:35:22 --> 00:35:24 No. No, he doesn't want to answer.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 Well, I'm just saying, you know, and that's and I'm glad you stressed one of
00:35:30 --> 00:35:35 the things about health, because in y'all's case, it was health beneficial.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:42 And some it'll be prohibitive for some people to do that because it's based
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45 on what what they are, you know, dealing with.
00:35:46 --> 00:35:51 Does that country provide the kind of health care that would take care of them
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 if they if they do want to go? So that's an important thing.
00:35:55 --> 00:36:00 And then the other thing is money because it's not a cheap process to do that. So I just...
00:36:02 --> 00:36:05 You know, folks just getting the wild hair and say, I'm leaving.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:08 It's like, yeah, it's not like getting on a Greyhound and going to,
00:36:08 --> 00:36:11 you know, something real.
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 Yeah. And it's unfortunate because I think that the United States,
00:36:17 --> 00:36:19 and this is part of the problem with U.S.
00:36:19 --> 00:36:24 Exceptionalism, right? Like people think that they're welcome all over the world,
00:36:24 --> 00:36:29 you know, or they think that they don't have to meet requirements or they don't
00:36:29 --> 00:36:33 like that. there aren't restrictions on people from the U.S.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 Going to emigrate into different countries. And that is so not true.
00:36:37 --> 00:36:41 I mean, even countries that have very, very low, quote unquote,
00:36:41 --> 00:36:46 low bars compared to others, they're still going to want to see most likely
00:36:46 --> 00:36:47 a criminal background check.
00:36:47 --> 00:36:51 They're still going to want to see that you have something to live on.
00:36:51 --> 00:36:55 And what that something is, is going to vary from country to country and even
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57 within countries from visa to visa.
00:36:57 --> 00:37:03 But there's no nobody's nobody's just saying, you know, come on in and we don't
00:37:03 --> 00:37:07 care who you are, what you have like that's not it doesn't work that way.
00:37:07 --> 00:37:11 And but it is accessible, you know,
00:37:11 --> 00:37:20 if you do have means to accumulate money and and you can do it in a way that
00:37:20 --> 00:37:23 fits the visa requirements of,
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26 you know, the particular country that you're targeting.
00:37:27 --> 00:37:35 But yeah I mean it's I wrote recently about how there's so many clickbaity articles
00:37:35 --> 00:37:41 out there right about five countries you can move to right now like no no you can't you can go visit.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:46 But you can't move there and like even in
00:37:46 --> 00:37:49 Mexico I mean you know the the house that we're renting right
00:37:49 --> 00:37:52 now we had to show that we had our residency cards
00:37:52 --> 00:37:55 right that we were legally here we had
00:37:55 --> 00:38:02 to show they we had to give references like you know it's it's not necessarily
00:38:02 --> 00:38:07 this free-for-all where you can do whatever you want so yeah yeah so and that
00:38:07 --> 00:38:12 that gets back because you we had talked about mexico city being a big thing
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14 why do you think according to,
00:38:14 --> 00:38:20 the data the the mexico is the most popular country for americans to.
00:38:21 --> 00:38:27 Leave and go to? Why do you think Mexico is the place? Is it because of convenience or what?
00:38:27 --> 00:38:31 I think it's a combination of history, right?
00:38:32 --> 00:38:36 It's been the most popular place for a long time. And so you have established,
00:38:36 --> 00:38:40 quote unquote, expat communities for those types of people that just want to
00:38:40 --> 00:38:42 go and be around other Americans.
00:38:42 --> 00:38:43 Like there's a lot of those communities
00:38:43 --> 00:38:49 here already. cost of living is is dramatically lower than the U.S.
00:38:49 --> 00:38:52 And and it's also dramatically lower
00:38:52 --> 00:38:58 than some places in the region so for example we just visited Belize for a conference
00:38:58 --> 00:39:02 and I was kind of shocked at how expensive everything was compared to Mexico
00:39:02 --> 00:39:07 so cost of living is one obviously convenience right you can physically drive
00:39:07 --> 00:39:12 your car there which we did so you know just that sort of accessibility.
00:39:13 --> 00:39:19 And then the thresholds for residency used to be low.
00:39:20 --> 00:39:25 How much money you have to be earning on a consistent basis or assets that you
00:39:25 --> 00:39:29 have in the bank used to be pretty low. It has increased significantly in the
00:39:29 --> 00:39:33 last two years, probably partially because of these issues, right?
00:39:33 --> 00:39:36 They're trying to not, I think they're trying to not accept as many people.
00:39:38 --> 00:39:42 And then the other thing is you have a lot of illegal United States immigrants.
00:39:42 --> 00:39:47 So you have people from the U.S. that illegally migrate to Mexico.
00:39:47 --> 00:39:53 And that is something like border hopping that they used to allow.
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55 And I think that they'll be cracking down on more and more.
00:39:56 --> 00:40:01 But basically, people just going on a tourist visa, getting a six-month approval
00:40:01 --> 00:40:06 for a tourist visa, living here, jumping the border back to the U.S.
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10 For like a week and then coming back. That was a very common practice.
00:40:10 --> 00:40:14 I don't know if it really still is, but I don't recommend it.
00:40:14 --> 00:40:18 But yeah, I think all of those factors combined. Also, although it's a Spanish-speaking
00:40:18 --> 00:40:23 country, there are a lot of places where English is widely spoken in Mexico.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:25 So I think that attracts people as well.
00:40:26 --> 00:40:33 Yeah. And Monterey, there was a lot of German settlers. That's why I caught
00:40:33 --> 00:40:38 a Blanca got started there and you go, there's a lot of bakeries and all that kind of stuff.
00:40:38 --> 00:40:42 So, you know, it's like each, and that's the other piece too,
00:40:42 --> 00:40:47 is that you have to understand the history of the place where you want to go.
00:40:48 --> 00:40:52 So you can kind of find for like a better word, find your tribe, right.
00:40:53 --> 00:40:57 You know, in a community, that'll be easy for you to kind of settle in,
00:40:57 --> 00:41:01 as opposed to just saying, oh, I'm gone and just spinning the wheel.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:03 It's like, yeah, I'm going there. You know what I'm saying?
00:41:04 --> 00:41:06 Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
00:41:07 --> 00:41:13 So early in the 20th century, Marcus Garvey became a major person of influence
00:41:13 --> 00:41:18 because of his crusade for African-Americans to expatriate, to leave.
00:41:18 --> 00:41:25 Do you think it is a viable option for Americans of color to consider leaving
00:41:25 --> 00:41:28 America? And Wes, I'll let you start off on that one.
00:41:28 --> 00:41:32 And then Liz, you can finish up. Mm hmm.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:33 Yeah.
00:41:36 --> 00:41:39 You know what, you know, like a decade ago, I would have said no,
00:41:39 --> 00:41:42 you know, because I would have still considered the U.S.
00:41:42 --> 00:41:47 Home, you know, and knowing that my options were limited, this is where I'm going to be.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:53 But now, you know, basically since I've had the opportunity through Liz to be
00:41:53 --> 00:41:58 able to move and be able to be in a different surrounding, I would encourage,
00:41:58 --> 00:42:02 you know, all black people to at least, you know, for one,
00:42:02 --> 00:42:07 visit another place, visit another country, you know, be able to experience
00:42:07 --> 00:42:12 something outside of white supremacy and in the forms that it is in in the United States.
00:42:12 --> 00:42:16 And just, you know, be able to just see what's out there, you know?
00:42:17 --> 00:42:21 And that's one thing that I could never wrap my head around was,
00:42:21 --> 00:42:22 you know, just seeing what was out there.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:26 I felt like the United States was home.
00:42:26 --> 00:42:29 This is where, you know, this is where I'm from.
00:42:29 --> 00:42:34 You know, there was no reason to change it. You know, there was no reason to leave, you know?
00:42:35 --> 00:42:41 But, you know, I would encourage people to, I would encourage Blacks to, yes.
00:42:42 --> 00:42:48 At least find out what's out there. I've seen people moving to Thailand.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:51 I've seen Blacks moving to Japan.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:55 I've seen Blacks moving to Mexico, of course, here.
00:42:55 --> 00:43:01 So the world is huge. Our story didn't start in the United States.
00:43:02 --> 00:43:05 So yeah, let's go back to Africa.
00:43:05 --> 00:43:10 Let's go see what home was like before all that happened.
00:43:13 --> 00:43:17 Yeah. Liz, you wanted to say something? Go ahead.
00:43:17 --> 00:43:21 Well, I just wanted to say you asked whether it was viable. Right.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24 And so that's a different question.
00:43:25 --> 00:43:29 And I think what is
00:43:29 --> 00:43:33 sad and frustrating for me
00:43:33 --> 00:43:39 as a person who's providing support and services and advice to people looking
00:43:39 --> 00:43:50 to leave is that the lack of generational wealth and the impacts of that particular
00:43:50 --> 00:43:53 type of white supremacy that exists in the United States.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:57 Create barriers right for people to leave
00:43:57 --> 00:44:00 for people to be resourced enough to leave i mean
00:44:00 --> 00:44:05 when you talk about you know the disparate impact of the criminal justice quote-unquote
00:44:05 --> 00:44:09 justice system the united states that you know you're going to have more people
00:44:09 --> 00:44:16 that have convictions because of that system and therefore will get denied you
00:44:16 --> 00:44:18 know when they run a criminal background checks.
00:44:18 --> 00:44:23 So I think, you know, it's, that's the part that it's, I'm not going to say
00:44:23 --> 00:44:27 it's not viable, but I think there are more barriers and.
00:44:28 --> 00:44:32 Yeah. I mean, and that's that those are the types of things that I would like
00:44:32 --> 00:44:34 to help people overcome.
00:44:34 --> 00:44:38 Right. Is to like find the pathway, even though the barriers are there,
00:44:39 --> 00:44:42 find the pathway and go to the right place for you.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:47 You know, that's the other thing. Like we like we just when we went to Belize,
00:44:48 --> 00:44:51 we were there with a couple who are awesome.
00:44:51 --> 00:44:54 A black couple from well i don't
00:44:54 --> 00:44:57 know where exactly they're from but oh no he's from dc but
00:44:57 --> 00:45:00 they live in south carolina and they're looking to
00:45:00 --> 00:45:03 move to belize like they are in love with it and you
00:45:03 --> 00:45:07 know they're like a hundred percent they know they want to move there and just
00:45:07 --> 00:45:13 seeing like the hope you know and the like and and then talking to them after
00:45:13 --> 00:45:19 we both we both came back from belize and like hearing the sadness and in her
00:45:19 --> 00:45:21 voice about being back in the U.S.
00:45:21 --> 00:45:27 And, you know, being cold, you know, being back in the thick of the drama,
00:45:28 --> 00:45:32 you know, it's like, wow, it can transform your life in a beautiful way.
00:45:32 --> 00:45:35 But it is a challenge. It's, you know, there are barriers.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:43 So that leads us to this point in the conversation where you and your husband
00:45:43 --> 00:45:51 have set up this consulting service to help people make a conscientious decision
00:45:51 --> 00:45:53 to leave the United States.
00:45:54 --> 00:45:58 So talk to people, talk to the audience about.
00:45:59 --> 00:46:04 The services you provide and how people can get in touch with you through that
00:46:04 --> 00:46:08 service and anything else you want to add to that?
00:46:09 --> 00:46:15 Yeah, sure. So the services that we provide are variable depending on where
00:46:15 --> 00:46:16 people are in their journey.
00:46:16 --> 00:46:20 So, so far, and we just launched this in January of 2024.
00:46:20 --> 00:46:26 So, you know, we're fairly new, but so far it's been a lot of people that are
00:46:26 --> 00:46:31 essentially at the stage where they're not sure where they want to go.
00:46:32 --> 00:46:36 Then that's usually the biggest challenge is deciding where you want to go.
00:46:36 --> 00:46:40 And you can't start doing really anything until you know where you're headed, right?
00:46:40 --> 00:46:46 So a lot of what I've been doing with people is getting a feel for their particular
00:46:46 --> 00:46:49 individual circumstances, because everybody's are different, right?
00:46:49 --> 00:46:53 How much money they have, how they earn their money, what their medical issues
00:46:53 --> 00:46:55 might be, what their identities are.
00:46:55 --> 00:46:59 So this is actually a really good point that I want to mention,
00:46:59 --> 00:47:02 actually, because like Wes said, let's go back to Africa.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:05 But if you're a queer couple,
00:47:08 --> 00:47:12 then I'm not going to tell you go to Ghana. I'm not going to advise you.
00:47:12 --> 00:47:18 And you probably already know that you shouldn't, but your identities are huge,
00:47:18 --> 00:47:22 hugely influential in where you will be safe and where you will be accepted,
00:47:23 --> 00:47:25 your religious identity.
00:47:25 --> 00:47:33 Gender, race, disabilities, whether you're a family with children versus an individual.
00:47:33 --> 00:47:38 All of these factors are really, really influential in what's a good decision.
00:47:39 --> 00:47:43 So when I meet with people for that initial consult, it's basically gleaning
00:47:43 --> 00:47:47 all that information about who they are, what they need, what they prefer,
00:47:47 --> 00:47:54 and then helping them narrow down options for what might be a good destination for them.
00:47:55 --> 00:47:59 And then from there, once they are like, okay, this is what I want to do.
00:48:00 --> 00:48:05 I want to go to this country, this city. I want to pursue this type of visa
00:48:05 --> 00:48:10 based on what I have, my income thresholds, my resources, all of that.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:15 And sometimes your age, age is influential, right? If you're retirement age,
00:48:15 --> 00:48:16 you might qualify for a particular visa.
00:48:17 --> 00:48:19 If you're under 35, you might qualify for something else.
00:48:20 --> 00:48:26 So figuring out what people will be eligible for, and then helping them to design
00:48:26 --> 00:48:28 the plan, because you need a plan.
00:48:28 --> 00:48:32 You need a plan with a timeline and milestones.
00:48:33 --> 00:48:41 And like, for example, if you are emigrating and your visa requires that you
00:48:41 --> 00:48:44 submit a background check, a criminal background check, it has to be,
00:48:44 --> 00:48:46 depending on where you go,
00:48:46 --> 00:48:50 let's, for example, Spain, it has to have been conducted within the past six months.
00:48:50 --> 00:48:55 So if you're not moving until next year, you can't get your background check
00:48:55 --> 00:48:58 now. It's not going to be in use to you. So you need a plan.
00:48:58 --> 00:49:03 So constructing the plan, laying everything out in a spreadsheet of what dates
00:49:03 --> 00:49:08 you need to be doing X, Y, and Z, how much money you need to be amassing,
00:49:08 --> 00:49:11 and all of those little tasks that come in between.
00:49:12 --> 00:49:16 That is the type of thing that we help people with. And not everybody needs that, Right.
00:49:16 --> 00:49:20 Not everybody needs that help. Some people are highly organized and they manage
00:49:20 --> 00:49:23 big projects and they don't need it. But a lot of people do need it.
00:49:24 --> 00:49:27 And if they don't have somebody putting that all together, they don't really
00:49:27 --> 00:49:32 know where to start. So that's that's like our big bulk offering.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:35 Right. Is is actually walking people through that process. And then the other
00:49:35 --> 00:49:41 piece is helping them to identify the resources they might need on the ground.
00:49:41 --> 00:49:47 So I always recommend, especially for getting housing, that you connect with
00:49:47 --> 00:49:50 somebody on the ground who can actually either a real estate agent or somebody
00:49:50 --> 00:49:55 that can facilitate to make sure you're not getting scammed, right?
00:49:55 --> 00:50:00 Make sure that like there's actually a property available that is actually cost
00:50:00 --> 00:50:01 what they're advertising it for.
00:50:02 --> 00:50:05 And immigration lawyers, because I'm not practicing immigration law.
00:50:05 --> 00:50:10 So, you know, if somebody, if I can look at a situation, look at the consulate
00:50:10 --> 00:50:14 page and determine, okay, you should qualify for this visa, but then they have
00:50:14 --> 00:50:19 complications and little, you know, different aspects that might interfere.
00:50:19 --> 00:50:22 Okay, well, then you're going to need an immigration lawyer to do this for you.
00:50:22 --> 00:50:26 So liaising and that sort of thing, because a lot of people are trying to do
00:50:26 --> 00:50:29 this while they're working a full-time job, right?
00:50:29 --> 00:50:34 So they don't have time to do all of this. It's a lot. So basically kind of
00:50:34 --> 00:50:36 holding people's hands through the process.
00:50:37 --> 00:50:41 And then there's the emotional aspect, you know, because it can get overwhelming,
00:50:41 --> 00:50:42 it can get discouraging.
00:50:43 --> 00:50:45 And so just kind of like.
00:50:46 --> 00:50:52 Supporting people through that emotional stress and discouragement and keeping
00:50:52 --> 00:50:54 them focused on making the thing happen.
00:50:55 --> 00:50:58 You have to take the steps to make the thing happen. It will not happen on its own.
00:51:00 --> 00:51:07 And they can find us on our website. So the website is www.SillyConsultingServices.com.
00:51:08 --> 00:51:09 I'm on LinkedIn.
00:51:10 --> 00:51:15 I'm on YouTube. I'm on all the social media platforms.
00:51:16 --> 00:51:20 Yeah, they can find us. They can definitely find Blue Sky. Just sign up on Blue Sky.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:24 But the website is the best place to start. And you can go ahead and click the,
00:51:24 --> 00:51:29 there's a screening form that just asks very basic information and fill it out.
00:51:29 --> 00:51:33 And then I'll reach out to organize a meeting and all of that.
00:51:33 --> 00:51:40 But yeah, basically, we're taking people from this vague idea of I want to get out of the U.S.
00:51:41 --> 00:51:48 To a more targeted idea, which is I want to move to X country by this date,
00:51:48 --> 00:51:55 leveraging this visa pathway, and then taking that from idea to execution.
00:51:55 --> 00:51:58 Yeah, and that's very, very important.
00:51:58 --> 00:52:02 Wes, do you want to add anything to that or were we good?
00:52:02 --> 00:52:08 The only thing I wanted to add is part of our conscientious immigration process
00:52:08 --> 00:52:11 has been, since we got to the island, is volunteering.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:19 So we, you know, we devote our time, you know, to coral restoration with the local program, CMAQ.
00:52:20 --> 00:52:21 And, you know, we've been able to eat.
00:52:23 --> 00:52:28 Give video, I'm sorry, of the coral restoration that we do on pretty much a
00:52:28 --> 00:52:33 weekly basis and put it on YouTube. So we have a YouTube channel for the coral
00:52:33 --> 00:52:35 restoration. It's Waves and Wi-Fi.
00:52:35 --> 00:52:38 They can find us there. We're trying to deliver videos weekly,
00:52:38 --> 00:52:44 but that is part of what we thought conscientious would be is volunteering our
00:52:44 --> 00:52:48 time in the space that we're at and being able to give back.
00:52:49 --> 00:52:53 Yes. Thank you for that. I forgot about that. Yeah. And that's and that's important
00:52:53 --> 00:52:57 because regardless of where y'all decide to live,
00:52:58 --> 00:53:02 you know, if you decide you're going to be like me and stick it out in the United
00:53:02 --> 00:53:07 States and, you know, or are you going to or you're going to seek out people
00:53:07 --> 00:53:11 like Elizabeth and Wes and get the information you need to move?
00:53:11 --> 00:53:15 The bottom line is you need to be a good citizen regardless
00:53:15 --> 00:53:18 of where you live and i'm glad
00:53:18 --> 00:53:21 that part of your service is stressing that
00:53:21 --> 00:53:25 point and if i ever decide guys
00:53:25 --> 00:53:28 that i am going to surrender the fight
00:53:28 --> 00:53:33 and take the wb the boys road and head on head on somewhere else and you will
00:53:33 --> 00:53:39 definitely be the first ones i call elizabeth sillick larue and and and devon
00:53:39 --> 00:53:47 west larue i I greatly appreciate y'all coming on and sharing that and keep up the good work.
00:53:48 --> 00:53:51 And, and again, enjoy your holidays, enjoy your time.
00:53:51 --> 00:53:58 And I know 2025 is going to be a prosperous year for you and I wish you much success and all that.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:03 Thank you so much, Eric. Thank you for having us. And, and we would,
00:54:03 --> 00:54:07 we will be happy to work with you if that time comes.
00:54:09 --> 00:54:11 All right guys if we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
00:54:14 --> 00:54:22 Music.
00:54:21 --> 00:54:26 This is dr tracy pearson host of what we don't know with dr tracy and serious
00:54:26 --> 00:54:32 xm progresses contributor to tell me everything with john fugle saying congratulations
00:54:32 --> 00:54:37 eric on your 300th episode What an incredible achievement.
00:54:38 --> 00:54:41 You are one of my favorite podcasts to be on and listen to.
00:54:42 --> 00:54:48 Here's to a healthy and happy 2025 and to many more thoughtful episodes. Well done, my friend.
00:54:51 --> 00:54:57 It's been a real pleasure being on your show here all these years. It's a fantastic show.
00:54:57 --> 00:55:00 I think the thing I like about it best is you and.
00:55:01 --> 00:55:44 Music.
00:55:43 --> 00:55:50 Founder of MBG Podcast Network, and Eric, I want to congratulate you on 300
00:55:50 --> 00:55:53 episodes of A Moment with Eric Fleming.
00:55:53 --> 00:55:58 Your unwavering commitment to amplifying Black voices and politics and leadership
00:55:58 --> 00:56:02 has inspired and informed so many, including myself.
00:56:02 --> 00:56:07 This achievement is a testament to your dedication, your passion,
00:56:07 --> 00:56:10 and the impactful conversation you bring to the table.
00:56:11 --> 00:56:16 So here's to 300 episodes of excellence, and we're looking forward to another
00:56:16 --> 00:56:21 300 episodes of excellence on the MBG Podcast Network.
00:56:21 --> 00:56:31 We'll see you next time.
00:56:25 --> 00:56:34 Music.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:38 All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Eric Drucker.
00:56:38 --> 00:56:44 Eric Drucker's drawings and posters are a familiar sight in the global street
00:56:44 --> 00:56:49 art movement, and his paintings appear frequently on the covers of The New Yorker.
00:56:49 --> 00:56:54 Born and raised in New York City, he began to slap his images on the streets as a teenager.
00:56:55 --> 00:56:59 Since then, Drucker's reputation as a social critic has grown,
00:56:59 --> 00:57:03 and it's led to countless editorial illustrations for The Nation,
00:57:04 --> 00:57:06 The New York Times, The Progressive, and etc.
00:57:07 --> 00:57:11 His art is in the permanent collections of many museums, including the Whitney
00:57:11 --> 00:57:16 Museum, the Museum of Modern Art, the Brooklyn Museum, and the Library of Congress.
00:57:17 --> 00:57:19 He lives in the San Francisco Bay Area.
00:57:19 --> 00:57:24 His first book, Flood, a novel in pictures, won the American Book Award,
00:57:24 --> 00:57:30 followed by Bloodsong, which I understand soon will be a major motion picture.
00:57:30 --> 00:57:35 His new book, the graphic novel, Naked City, was recently published by Dark
00:57:35 --> 00:57:40 Horse Books, and that's the book we're going to talk about, along with some other things.
00:57:40 --> 00:57:44 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
00:57:44 --> 00:57:47 guest on this podcast, Eric Drucker.
00:57:49 --> 00:57:50 Eric Drucker.
00:57:50 --> 00:58:00 Music.
00:58:00 --> 00:58:04 Drucker. How are you doing, sir? You doing good? Yeah, I'm doing good, Eric.
00:58:05 --> 00:58:09 Well, yeah, it is kind of cool to always talk to another Eric.
00:58:10 --> 00:58:14 And I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on the podcast.
00:58:15 --> 00:58:21 And I'm really kind of honored because you are one of those undercover celebrities, right?
00:58:22 --> 00:58:28 Because a lot of people know your art, but they don't necessarily know you.
00:58:29 --> 00:58:34 Just for example, how many New Yorker covers have you done?
00:58:34 --> 00:58:39 Oh, there's been several dozen over the years, especially in recent years.
00:58:41 --> 00:58:45 I guess it's been three or four dozen now.
00:58:45 --> 00:58:51 I just had number 40, 41, I think, just hit the newsstand last week.
00:58:52 --> 00:58:58 Okay. I doubt coming out of the subway station who looks like Santa Claus. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:58:59 --> 00:59:04 That was number 41. So whatever, you do the math.
00:59:05 --> 00:59:10 At least three dozen. They accumulate over time.
00:59:10 --> 00:59:16 And wherever I live, I'm living on the West Coast now, but I'm still fixated in New York.
00:59:16 --> 00:59:20 When you're born and raised in a place, it never really gets out of your system.
00:59:20 --> 00:59:22 Oh, I agree. I grew up in Chicago.
00:59:23 --> 00:59:27 And so, you know, when I got to go to the convention this year,
00:59:27 --> 00:59:32 it was like, oh, my God, you know, it was just memories and catching up with
00:59:32 --> 00:59:34 family and friends and all that stuff. It was pretty cool.
00:59:36 --> 00:59:41 One of my one of the covers, of course, the cover I like the most is the one
00:59:41 --> 00:59:44 I'm probably getting the title wrong, but it's called The Fight,
00:59:45 --> 00:59:49 where you have the elephant and the donkey in the middle of the boxing ring and stuff and all that.
00:59:49 --> 00:59:57 I mean, just the way it's depicted, it looks like a Leonard Neiman kind of theme
00:59:57 --> 01:00:00 of a boxing match like back in the day.
01:00:00 --> 01:00:02 So I really appreciated that one.
01:00:04 --> 01:00:08 Let's get into, now you just wrote a new book called Naked City.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:11 Why did you choose that title, Naked City?
01:00:12 --> 01:00:15 Well, I had a different working title while I was doing it.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:21 I was calling it Street Song because it's about a street singer who performs
01:00:21 --> 01:00:22 on the street and down on subway platforms.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:28 And I was, at the last minute, I was thinking, well, Naked City,
01:00:28 --> 01:00:34 I just like the sound of it. It's really, you know, you could interpret it in so many ways.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:43 And although it was used for a movie in the 1940s, a noir crime film,
01:00:43 --> 01:00:51 I'm almost goofing on that because this book is kind of literally dealing with
01:00:51 --> 01:00:53 nakedness in all its forms.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:59 You know, the protagonist is a young woman who's having a hard time paying her rent.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:02 So she gets a job posing as
01:01:02 --> 01:01:05 a model for this this painter who you
01:01:05 --> 01:01:09 know paints her in the nude so there's nakedness there
01:01:09 --> 01:01:13 but it's also this nakedness of
01:01:13 --> 01:01:21 of in the in the sense of of expose the whole city is exposed all the economic
01:01:21 --> 01:01:27 workings behind it and how everyone is having a hard time surviving and how
01:01:27 --> 01:01:31 we see each one of the characters is naked in a different chapter.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:34 Even the painter himself winds up naked.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:40 So it's really an exploration of nakedness. What does that really mean?
01:01:40 --> 01:01:45 And is there a difference between nudity and the state of being naked?
01:01:46 --> 01:01:51 Well, it's kind of a theme of vulnerability. So I did something a little different.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:54 Normally, I don't jump into the interview. I kind of do the icebreaker.
01:01:55 --> 01:02:01 But I wanted to wait a little bit and get started talking about the book because
01:02:01 --> 01:02:03 the quote that I pulled comes from the book.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:11 And your quote is, a moment passes in the blink of an eye, and before you know it, we're nobody.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:13 What does that quote mean to you?
01:02:14 --> 01:02:22 Well, how fleeting it all is and how transient can't, or one's whole lifetime is.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:25 But even within the day, even if you're working on something,
01:02:25 --> 01:02:29 some activity, or even this little conversation we're having,
01:02:29 --> 01:02:33 we're kind of getting into it, gradually getting into the meat of it,
01:02:33 --> 01:02:35 and then before we know it,
01:02:35 --> 01:02:38 somehow it's all gone. It was in the...
01:02:39 --> 01:02:43 Future, then now it's in the present, and before we know it, it's in the past.
01:02:43 --> 01:02:49 And how, at least my experience, the way my life has been going,
01:02:49 --> 01:02:52 I'm constantly amazed by it.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:57 I never really get used to it, even though I know intellectually that things
01:02:57 --> 01:02:59 are always changing, and we're
01:02:59 --> 01:03:02 passing through it, and things are always evolving, and we're growing.
01:03:03 --> 01:03:07 And we're all mortal, right? It's all temporary we're alive
01:03:07 --> 01:03:10 for a few years so that's one
01:03:10 --> 01:03:13 of the themes of naked city is just getting into
01:03:13 --> 01:03:16 that the the uh the passage of time
01:03:16 --> 01:03:20 and as you said this vulnerability you know
01:03:20 --> 01:03:23 nakedness just being another word for
01:03:23 --> 01:03:27 being vulnerable and being vulnerable to
01:03:27 --> 01:03:30 to the passage of time and death that
01:03:30 --> 01:03:33 that's what it is to be mortal right that's what mortality
01:03:33 --> 01:03:36 is the paradox is that
01:03:36 --> 01:03:39 if if we were able to just live on and
01:03:39 --> 01:03:43 on for century after century i don't
01:03:43 --> 01:03:48 know if anything would have much meaning we would we would be taking it all
01:03:48 --> 01:03:53 for granted i think the very fact that it's so brief and so finite that is what
01:03:53 --> 01:04:01 makes everything seem so urgent and and uh and precious yeah yeah that the the
01:04:01 --> 01:04:03 key word like i said that you know when
01:04:03 --> 01:04:07 I thought about naked and after reading the book was a vulnerability,
01:04:07 --> 01:04:12 I think it's very important for us to acknowledge that.
01:04:12 --> 01:04:15 And a lot of times part of our struggle.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:19 Whether it's dealing with art, whether it's dealing with politics,
01:04:19 --> 01:04:25 just life in general is accepting the fact that we are vulnerable and we do
01:04:25 --> 01:04:28 a lot of things to try to protect that,
01:04:28 --> 01:04:32 which leads me to why did you choose
01:04:32 --> 01:04:36 all the three characters why was isabelle's
01:04:36 --> 01:04:39 character more compelling to tell the story through
01:04:39 --> 01:04:43 of the those three central characters
01:04:43 --> 01:04:47 why did i make isabel the protagonist the
01:04:47 --> 01:04:51 main one yes she has more more age
01:04:51 --> 01:04:56 time than anyone else well that's a good question and of course it was a bit
01:04:56 --> 01:05:02 risky for me just as a man to be telling a story really through the eyes of
01:05:02 --> 01:05:08 a woman and the woman is narrating the story it's all much of it is written in the first person.
01:05:10 --> 01:05:15 I suppose that just for that reason alone, because it was challenging, because I'm not a woman.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:22 And I've already done books where the character, the hero was a man who looked a bit like me.
01:05:23 --> 01:05:29 I think it was the challenge. And I feel like I'm not completely out of my element.
01:05:29 --> 01:05:32 After all, I've known many women in my life.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:38 And we're not really, we have more in common than we are different.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:42 And maybe just again the theme of
01:05:42 --> 01:05:46 vulnerability women are more vulnerable in
01:05:46 --> 01:05:54 this culture for all kinds of reasons she's she's going through she's going
01:05:54 --> 01:05:58 through this transition and it's not it's not clear at the beginning we see
01:05:58 --> 01:06:03 her in the first page she's hitchhiking she has her thumb sticking out.
01:06:04 --> 01:06:07 And she's hitchhiking because she wants to go to the big city.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:12 But she seems to be in a big rush. And we're not clear exactly why.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:17 You know, what is she running away from? She looks awfully young.
01:06:17 --> 01:06:23 And why is she hitchhiking? Anyway, why isn't she taking a Greyhound bus or something?
01:06:23 --> 01:06:28 And some of these things are revealed at the end of that chapter.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:33 But it's because, again, vulnerability. She's frightened.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:37 She feels like they're coming after her.
01:06:37 --> 01:06:41 The authorities are coming after her or the walls are closing in.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:51 And she's not even sure if the ICE police are coming after her or paying any
01:06:51 --> 01:06:54 attention to her at all. Is it all in her head?
01:06:55 --> 01:06:59 Is she documented or not? She doesn't know.
01:06:59 --> 01:07:06 All she knows is that her mother was from Mexico and it turned out wasn't born
01:07:06 --> 01:07:08 in the U.S. and was then deported.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:14 But she doesn't know, she thinks she was born in the U.S., which means if you're
01:07:14 --> 01:07:16 born here, you're in like Flynn, right?
01:07:17 --> 01:07:21 But now, you know, with this election, are we calling it a re-election?
01:07:22 --> 01:07:23 I guess it is a re-election.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:26 Yeah, technically it's a re-election for him, yeah.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:32 He's talking about, well, we may have to deport even people who were born in the U.S.
01:07:32 --> 01:07:36 He's kind of floating that idea to see how that goes over.
01:07:36 --> 01:07:41 So a lot of these things that I suspected while I was working on it are now
01:07:41 --> 01:07:47 becoming more and more concrete and more urgent because I was working on it during 45.
01:07:47 --> 01:07:52 During the first term, and then all through Biden, all through the pandemic
01:07:52 --> 01:08:00 years, allowed me to really just stay in the studio and socially isolate myself
01:08:00 --> 01:08:01 and get a lot of work done.
01:08:01 --> 01:08:07 But a lot of the themes, political themes that were going on in the culture,
01:08:07 --> 01:08:11 I made a point of weaving right into the story.
01:08:12 --> 01:08:18 And one of them is that very thing of immigration and what does it mean to be illegal or illegal?
01:08:18 --> 01:08:22 What if you're undocumented? What exactly does that mean?
01:08:22 --> 01:08:27 I mean, ultimately, I think the purpose is just to make people feel vulnerable
01:08:27 --> 01:08:33 so that they won't make so that they won't complain, won't complain to the boss
01:08:33 --> 01:08:37 and demand to get paid a minimum wage.
01:08:37 --> 01:08:41 I mean, I think it comes down to something as mundane as that.
01:08:41 --> 01:08:46 If you're illegal, then you could be deported at any moment.
01:08:46 --> 01:08:51 You're in no position of organizing a union or even talking to any of your fellow
01:08:51 --> 01:08:54 workers. You have to keep a low profile.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:59 And that's why there have always been, you know, millions of illegals in this
01:08:59 --> 01:09:05 country taking all the food that we eat, you know, harvesting the crops and
01:09:05 --> 01:09:08 all of that going back through history.
01:09:09 --> 01:09:15 So anyhow, Eric, these are things that I guess are on many of our minds,
01:09:15 --> 01:09:22 and it's hard to really process them in a way that's not going to just overwhelm
01:09:22 --> 01:09:26 us or fill us with resentment or anger.
01:09:26 --> 01:09:33 And I guess if you're any kind of artist, whether you're a writer or a poet or a songwriter,
01:09:34 --> 01:09:42 it gives you a way of transforming some of these emotions or half-baked ideas,
01:09:42 --> 01:09:50 transforming them into the form of a story or a melody so that you could more
01:09:50 --> 01:09:55 effectively communicate with people who might not want to just hear you.
01:09:56 --> 01:10:02 Complaining about shit, you know, but they like hearing you,
01:10:02 --> 01:10:06 you know, tell a funny joke or sing a pretty song or paint a pretty picture.
01:10:08 --> 01:10:14 And that's what, I mean, I think that's what art, that's what the function of art is, in my opinion.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:17 Not the only, there are many other functions, of course.
01:10:17 --> 01:10:21 But when I look back through art history through the centuries,
01:10:22 --> 01:10:25 I see that so much of the most powerful art,
01:10:26 --> 01:10:28 really deals with the issues of the
01:10:28 --> 01:10:32 day the political and you know social contradictions
01:10:32 --> 01:10:35 of the time that the artist was
01:10:35 --> 01:10:39 living in whether it was you know in the 15th
01:10:39 --> 01:10:45 century the 12th century or you know or the 1950s the 1960s when when james
01:10:45 --> 01:10:50 baldwin was writing you know some of it was fiction some of it was non-fiction
01:10:50 --> 01:10:56 but even when it was fiction he was talking very much about what was going on,
01:10:56 --> 01:10:58 you know, outside of his,
01:10:58 --> 01:11:05 outside the doorway of his room where he had, he was holed up with his typewriter
01:11:05 --> 01:11:08 and trying to make sense of it all.
01:11:09 --> 01:11:18 Yeah. So, and I agree that art plays an important part in the political discussion because,
01:11:19 --> 01:11:26 you know, I grew up in an era, it was like a major, major point when James Brown
01:11:26 --> 01:11:29 made a song, I'm black and I'm proud, right?
01:11:30 --> 01:11:38 One of my favorite comics is the X-Men, and they were winning award after award.
01:11:38 --> 01:11:43 It was like a two-year saga, which does no justice trying to make it a two-hour
01:11:43 --> 01:11:46 movie, but The Rise of the Phoenix.
01:11:46 --> 01:11:52 And the whole concept of the X-Men was dealing with the racial tension in America,
01:11:52 --> 01:11:57 or even now to say the issue about immigration.
01:11:57 --> 01:12:02 It's like, how are we treating people who are different than us or different
01:12:02 --> 01:12:03 than the quote unquote norm?
01:12:04 --> 01:12:10 And yeah, yeah. And so, you know, and it was and so a lot of us,
01:12:10 --> 01:12:15 you know, that read that comic and all that, that had that shaped our opinions
01:12:15 --> 01:12:17 about how we view other people.
01:12:17 --> 01:12:24 So I really agree with you that art plays a major role, which kind of leads to how can,
01:12:24 --> 01:12:31 well, let me, let me, is it possible in this climate, not necessarily in this
01:12:31 --> 01:12:34 century, but in this climate that we're in politically, is it,
01:12:34 --> 01:12:36 is it possible for an artist to survive?
01:12:36 --> 01:12:43 And if, and if so, what should they do to, to make sure that survival happens?
01:12:45 --> 01:12:48 Yeah that's that's that's the question that
01:12:48 --> 01:12:54 each one of the characters in the book asks is is it possible to survive as
01:12:54 --> 01:13:02 an artist in the 21st century and you know that raises so many other questions
01:13:02 --> 01:13:07 like what did you know what do we mean by surviving i mean just you know,
01:13:08 --> 01:13:12 And, you know, surviving as an artist, does that mean, you know,
01:13:12 --> 01:13:17 making a living, expecting people to pay us money for doing our art?
01:13:17 --> 01:13:19 Is that all we're talking about?
01:13:20 --> 01:13:29 Or is it talking more about this surviving with our souls intact, our creativity intact?
01:13:30 --> 01:13:35 Because I see when I look around, most of us seem to have that beaten out of us pretty early on.
01:13:37 --> 01:13:40 Especially in recent years i mean i think we're in
01:13:40 --> 01:13:43 this kind of very dangerous era now
01:13:43 --> 01:13:46 with the rise of well just
01:13:46 --> 01:13:49 even the internet and social media and all
01:13:49 --> 01:13:51 these things where people are spending so much of
01:13:51 --> 01:13:55 their time and yes it's interactive
01:13:55 --> 01:13:59 i suppose it's more interactive than television was
01:13:59 --> 01:14:02 but it's all working on a certain format you
01:14:02 --> 01:14:06 know you're still in zuckerberg's format or you
01:14:06 --> 01:14:10 know the format of one of these tech tech giants
01:14:10 --> 01:14:13 that i think is really kind of limits our
01:14:13 --> 01:14:16 imagination or our sense of possibilities we're
01:14:16 --> 01:14:20 all like working it feels like we're working on a smaller and
01:14:20 --> 01:14:23 smaller canvas and all you
01:14:23 --> 01:14:26 know has this technology really delivered on the big
01:14:26 --> 01:14:29 promise of giving us that it's supposed.
01:14:29 --> 01:14:32 To just give us more leisure time this was
01:14:32 --> 01:14:36 the whole promise in the first place of the industrial revolution
01:14:36 --> 01:14:39 200 years ago all the all of this
01:14:39 --> 01:14:42 machinery and technology was going
01:14:42 --> 01:14:45 to be doing some of the heavy lifting for us so
01:14:45 --> 01:14:49 that we would then be free liberated to
01:14:49 --> 01:14:52 do all of the other things the humanities or the things that
01:14:52 --> 01:14:56 you know as individuals we thought were was
01:14:56 --> 01:14:59 more important and you know has it delivered on
01:14:59 --> 01:15:02 that i guess in some ways you could say it has
01:15:02 --> 01:15:06 it's certainly a mixed sword mixed what
01:15:06 --> 01:15:09 i say double double-edged sword a mixed
01:15:09 --> 01:15:15 blessing but in so many ways now it's it's looking like it's it's really hemming
01:15:15 --> 01:15:20 us in and we were maybe better better off without all of the these electronic
01:15:20 --> 01:15:27 gadgets and everything following us around yeah and i i guess you know So in my mind.
01:15:28 --> 01:15:36 The one thing that that comes up is AI and the fact that, you know, I have co-workers that,
01:15:37 --> 01:15:41 you know, can create images now where they've never really been artists.
01:15:41 --> 01:15:47 I used to be able to draw and I say used to because I knew I was pretty decent
01:15:47 --> 01:15:51 because that whatever that little art school that they would have,
01:15:51 --> 01:15:57 like the turtle or the pirate and they tell you to draw it. and I was able to draw pretty good.
01:15:57 --> 01:16:00 I actually got a couple of pretty good reviews, but I never enrolled in the school, right?
01:16:02 --> 01:16:06 You know, but AI now is making more people feel like they're artists,
01:16:06 --> 01:16:12 you know, as far as that's concerned, or even whether it's drawing or music or whatever.
01:16:13 --> 01:16:19 How does somebody that, you know, has done this not only for pleasure and aesthetics,
01:16:19 --> 01:16:24 but for a living, are you afraid?
01:16:24 --> 01:16:31 Are you concerned? What is the feeling that you have about AI in your world?
01:16:31 --> 01:16:34 Oh, there's artificial intelligence? Yes.
01:16:34 --> 01:16:37 I mean, again, this is a quintessential example, right?
01:16:38 --> 01:16:43 It's bringing up multiple emotions, you know, including, you know,
01:16:44 --> 01:16:49 definitely including fear and vulnerability, but also possibility.
01:16:49 --> 01:16:51 And some of it we're going to have to wait and see.
01:16:52 --> 01:16:57 It's probably going to have some very unexpected, unexpected effects.
01:16:57 --> 01:17:01 The thing that kills me is that just in the last year or two,
01:17:02 --> 01:17:06 there's been so much hype about it, one way, one direction or another.
01:17:06 --> 01:17:11 There's just all this buzz and hype about AI, AI, artificial intelligence.
01:17:11 --> 01:17:14 And i i just
01:17:14 --> 01:17:17 think that well for for a visual artist i feel
01:17:17 --> 01:17:21 like we're already reeling for
01:17:21 --> 01:17:26 the last couple of centuries we're reeling from this earlier technology technological
01:17:26 --> 01:17:33 breakthrough called photography that did a lot of visual artists out of a gig
01:17:33 --> 01:17:38 even though we don't like to admit it, that was a game-changer.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:44 Photography itself, never mind AI, and,
01:17:45 --> 01:17:49 But what everyone is admitting about AI, I mean, all the experts that are saying,
01:17:49 --> 01:17:54 yes, it potentially could be very dangerous. We just don't know. We don't know yet.
01:17:54 --> 01:17:59 But what they all agree upon is that it's definitely going to put millions of
01:17:59 --> 01:18:00 people out of work very soon.
01:18:01 --> 01:18:07 That's the consensus. Just like any other earlier forms of technology where
01:18:07 --> 01:18:13 they invent machines that replace your job, whatever it is.
01:18:13 --> 01:18:18 So I think that's the one thing I think we could be certain about is it's just
01:18:18 --> 01:18:23 another iteration of that technology coming along and putting a lot of people
01:18:23 --> 01:18:28 out of work and being just simply being put out of work wouldn't be the worst
01:18:28 --> 01:18:31 thing in the world, especially if it's some repetitive.
01:18:31 --> 01:18:35 Mind numbing job like most jobs are.
01:18:35 --> 01:18:39 But if that's the only way you're going to be able to make Benjamins and be
01:18:39 --> 01:18:44 able to pay off your landlord and be able to pay for food and everything like that,
01:18:45 --> 01:18:54 and your government isn't coming up with a plan B or a plan C to help you make it through the day,
01:18:54 --> 01:18:59 then yes, all of us are finding ourselves in a very precarious,
01:19:00 --> 01:19:03 very vulnerable situation indeed.
01:19:03 --> 01:19:08 Well, speaking about government, one of the things that always comes up,
01:19:08 --> 01:19:16 it seems like when a Republican administration is the National Endowment for the Arts or Humanities,
01:19:17 --> 01:19:21 you know, that's funded by federal dollars.
01:19:21 --> 01:19:26 And then you have the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that's funded in a
01:19:26 --> 01:19:27 great deal by federal dollars.
01:19:28 --> 01:19:34 And it always seems like the conservative viewpoint is to take money away from
01:19:34 --> 01:19:37 that for whatever reason they conjure up.
01:19:38 --> 01:19:45 And I just think about all of the all of the artists that are supported by the National Endowment.
01:19:46 --> 01:19:52 What would that mean to a lot of artists if that funding is cut?
01:19:52 --> 01:19:58 And what else do you think government should do to support the arts?
01:19:59 --> 01:20:04 Yes. Well, a national endowment for the arts, all of these things,
01:20:04 --> 01:20:09 of course, have been cut down and whittled down to where we're just kind of
01:20:09 --> 01:20:11 fighting up that crumbs now.
01:20:11 --> 01:20:16 There's not that much government support of the arts in this country.
01:20:16 --> 01:20:19 In other countries, even poverty-stricken countries in Asia,
01:20:19 --> 01:20:22 Mexico, they support their artists all throughout Europe.
01:20:22 --> 01:20:27 They believe supporting artists just because artists are workers and workers
01:20:27 --> 01:20:30 need to eat food just like everybody else.
01:20:30 --> 01:20:35 I think in our culture, there's this archetype of the starving artist,
01:20:36 --> 01:20:42 that the true artist doesn't really need to eat food or something like that, or deserves to eat food,
01:20:42 --> 01:20:47 should always have the begging bowl and should have to sing for their supper.
01:20:48 --> 01:20:52 I think we see it just even in elementary schools when there are cutbacks,
01:20:53 --> 01:20:55 economic cutbacks, when the government,
01:20:55 --> 01:20:58 whether it's the national government or the local government,
01:20:58 --> 01:21:04 says, I'm sorry, we're low on funds, as if we're supposed to believe that,
01:21:04 --> 01:21:07 that there's not enough wealth in this country.
01:21:08 --> 01:21:14 And so we're going to have to be making some cutbacks. What's the first thing that they cut back on?
01:21:15 --> 01:21:23 Right? It's never math or writing or even, you know, things like that. It's always the arts.
01:21:24 --> 01:21:29 That's always the first thing. So that's sending out a message to us when we're children.
01:21:30 --> 01:21:34 It's teaching us that, oh, the arts are not really that important.
01:21:34 --> 01:21:39 These are just these extra, this is just the gravy that we can give you.
01:21:40 --> 01:21:41 And then we could take it away.
01:21:41 --> 01:21:45 And, well, you don't really need these things to live.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:50 So I think that that's something that we're taught over and over again in this
01:21:50 --> 01:21:55 country from early childhood, that that could be – that's something that's – it's really an extra.
01:21:56 --> 01:21:59 It's like saying, you know, you don't really need, you know, sex.
01:22:00 --> 01:22:04 Oh, yeah, that feels good, but you don't really need sex to live,
01:22:04 --> 01:22:08 you know, as long as we give you enough food and water, you know.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:11 But, look, treating these things
01:22:11 --> 01:22:17 as if they're not just part of someone's life, part of a balanced life.
01:22:17 --> 01:22:21 And that art, when we talk about art, you know, the arts is really,
01:22:21 --> 01:22:24 these are just forms of communication.
01:22:25 --> 01:22:30 That's the way I see arts, whether it's visual art or writing or poetry.
01:22:30 --> 01:22:32 These are forms of communication.
01:22:34 --> 01:22:41 Of course, governments, whatever governments now or ancient governments or futuristic
01:22:41 --> 01:22:42 corporate governments,
01:22:43 --> 01:22:48 they're always going to be a little bit nervous about people having different
01:22:48 --> 01:22:55 languages or secret languages or means of communicating that the government can't control.
01:22:55 --> 01:23:04 But they always want to be able to control not only the media and what's said and what the –.
01:23:06 --> 01:23:10 Parameters are for speech, you know, when are you out of bounds,
01:23:10 --> 01:23:17 but they want to, they really want to control the entire format of it.
01:23:17 --> 01:23:23 And the arts, these are just kind of very unpredictable formats,
01:23:24 --> 01:23:26 means of communication that's really grassroots.
01:23:27 --> 01:23:31 I mean, people are always reinventing these art forms.
01:23:32 --> 01:23:37 Famously, they're usually reinvented from people on the bottom,
01:23:37 --> 01:23:42 people who don't really have any luxuries or anything like that.
01:23:43 --> 01:23:47 I mean, where did hip-hop came from? From the Bronx.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:53 You know, so many of these art forms, if we trace their lineage of music or
01:23:53 --> 01:23:56 visual art, it's out of desperation.
01:23:56 --> 01:24:06 People needed to to be creative and inventive out of necessity, as the phrase goes.
01:24:07 --> 01:24:11 Yeah. So I hope that answered the question a little bit.
01:24:11 --> 01:24:17 Well, yeah, I mean, it reminded me, I have, you know, I guess as a confession
01:24:17 --> 01:24:21 for those people who didn't follow my political career, but when I was in the
01:24:21 --> 01:24:22 legislature in Mississippi,
01:24:23 --> 01:24:26 we created a Mississippi school for the fine arts.
01:24:26 --> 01:24:31 I go on record as being the only legislator to vote against it.
01:24:32 --> 01:24:37 And my argument was what you were highlighting, the fact that we are taking
01:24:37 --> 01:24:40 arts away from the schools.
01:24:42 --> 01:24:45 And now we're going to create a school.
01:24:46 --> 01:24:49 Where are we going to get these kids from? How what is the criteria?
01:24:49 --> 01:24:54 It's like if you're literally have schools that don't even have a piano in the
01:24:54 --> 01:24:58 school, let alone a band or choir, where are these kids coming from?
01:24:58 --> 01:25:01 If they're going to be coming from these privileged households and all that
01:25:01 --> 01:25:05 stuff, that's going to deny the opportunity for people in my district.
01:25:06 --> 01:25:10 Be able to to qualify and go because if they don't have those same advantages
01:25:10 --> 01:25:18 right and and i challenged them and i said that if you commit to this then you
01:25:18 --> 01:25:22 are going to commit to this for a lifetime this is not well we're just going
01:25:22 --> 01:25:25 to do it for a little while and if we can afford it and,
01:25:26 --> 01:25:29 because i and i told him even though i may be the only one to vote against it,
01:25:30 --> 01:25:33 if and it you should have seen it was a spectacle you have people quoting shakespeare
01:25:33 --> 01:25:38 and you just imagine legislators doing Macbeth on the, on the floor.
01:25:39 --> 01:25:43 But if you're going to do this, then you're going to commit to it for life.
01:25:43 --> 01:25:49 And if you try to do it, I'll be the first one to challenge any kind of cuts to this program.
01:25:50 --> 01:25:55 And sure enough, two years after they passed it, they tried to pass a thing
01:25:55 --> 01:25:58 where, well, you know, we might need to cut back and all that stuff.
01:25:58 --> 01:26:00 And I got on the floor and I guilt tripped them.
01:26:00 --> 01:26:04 And I told him, I said, I told you, I told you, You always say that I'm crazy,
01:26:04 --> 01:26:08 but I told you that this was this day was going to happen.
01:26:08 --> 01:26:11 And I promised you that I was going to fight against it.
01:26:11 --> 01:26:12 And needless to say, they didn't
01:26:12 --> 01:26:16 get their money cut and they've been thriving on their own ever since.
01:26:16 --> 01:26:22 But that that's always that's always been the battle in that,
01:26:22 --> 01:26:30 you know, we just lose track of a commitment that we have to make sure that people.
01:26:31 --> 01:26:34 When they say they're going to support the arts, especially in government,
01:26:34 --> 01:26:38 that they follow through on that. So let me get to.
01:26:39 --> 01:26:41 My last question for you.
01:26:43 --> 01:26:46 What can individual citizens
01:26:46 --> 01:26:57 do to better support art well it's such a broad question i i i suppose i i would
01:26:57 --> 01:27:01 have to say that it really starts at home and in the communities and how we
01:27:01 --> 01:27:04 how we raise our children and.
01:27:06 --> 01:27:11 Just the kids in the neighborhood and making sure that they have places to go,
01:27:12 --> 01:27:17 you know, that they, aside from just a room with a big TV screen in it,
01:27:17 --> 01:27:19 that they have places that they can go.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:26 That's a quiet space that may have a shelf of books over here and some graphic novels over here.
01:27:26 --> 01:27:33 And oh, oh, look, there's some art art supplies, crayons and markers and pads
01:27:33 --> 01:27:36 of paper provided over here.
01:27:36 --> 01:27:42 And then I go against this wall is a there's a piano permanently in the room.
01:27:43 --> 01:27:48 There's a piano over here. Things like that. I think it's really as basic as that.
01:27:48 --> 01:27:52 The tools, just like you're providing tools for anything else.
01:27:54 --> 01:28:01 Art supplies. And then time and space to go along with it from,
01:28:01 --> 01:28:06 you know, from earliest childhood, from, you know, starting at the age of two or three.
01:28:06 --> 01:28:12 I mean, that's I feel fortunate in that regard that I was I was encouraged early
01:28:12 --> 01:28:19 on that my elders, as my mom from the Bronx, always made sure that I had some
01:28:19 --> 01:28:21 art supplies lying around.
01:28:21 --> 01:28:26 And oh and when i would do something she would she would encourage me to go
01:28:26 --> 01:28:32 oh that's uh look at that look at that it's rather abstract i can't really tell
01:28:32 --> 01:28:36 what the hell is going on in that picture but but i like it i like it let's
01:28:36 --> 01:28:41 see another one let's see you know let's see like that they're just the.
01:28:42 --> 01:28:45 Encouragement of the arts and the
01:28:45 --> 01:28:49 music and again all of the arts from childhood
01:28:49 --> 01:28:52 just within a family structure and
01:28:52 --> 01:28:55 then within a community and yes within schools within
01:28:55 --> 01:28:58 the classroom there should be a special art room
01:28:58 --> 01:29:01 a special music room if there's not then
01:29:01 --> 01:29:06 there's something wrong with this picture so where
01:29:06 --> 01:29:10 can people get naked city and
01:29:10 --> 01:29:14 yeah how can people get it and how can people reach out to you the new graphic
01:29:14 --> 01:29:20 novel if you like comics if you like oh and if you see the the new yorker magazine
01:29:20 --> 01:29:26 and you like my covers this is like a new yorker cover come to life and And
01:29:26 --> 01:29:28 it's long. It's not just a comic book.
01:29:28 --> 01:29:30 It's 336 pages.
01:29:31 --> 01:29:37 It's a long-form story. It's published by Dark Horse, which does lots of other
01:29:37 --> 01:29:40 graphic novels and things I'm sure people have seen.
01:29:40 --> 01:29:43 But it's available wherever books are sold.
01:29:43 --> 01:29:47 If they don't have it on your local bookstore, you just ask for it.
01:29:47 --> 01:29:49 Naked City, a graphic novel.
01:29:50 --> 01:29:54 They could order it. If you want to get a signed copy, you just get it right through my website.
01:29:55 --> 01:30:00 In fact, that's a good place to look. On my website, Drucker.com,
01:30:00 --> 01:30:04 I have a sneak preview of the book, Naked City.
01:30:04 --> 01:30:07 There's the first bunch of pages. You could just see what it looks like,
01:30:08 --> 01:30:11 what the art looks like and the word balloons sound like.
01:30:12 --> 01:30:16 And there's lots of, you know, hundreds of examples of my work.
01:30:16 --> 01:30:22 A lot of it will be quite familiar to the listeners because they've been seeing it over the years.
01:30:22 --> 01:30:26 Some of it just in the mainstream culture. But as you said at the beginning
01:30:26 --> 01:30:33 of this interview, Eric, I think people are familiar with my work from just unexpected places,
01:30:34 --> 01:30:38 CD covers, street posters, and things like that.
01:30:39 --> 01:30:44 They'll recognize the artwork and recognize the style, even if they don't recognize the name.
01:30:45 --> 01:30:53 The name, Brooker, that's it, D-R-O-O-K-E-R.com. and you could get it all through
01:30:53 --> 01:31:00 there or just from whatever bookstore that you may still have in your neighborhood.
01:31:01 --> 01:31:06 Yeah. And that's a whole nother topic for another day. So Eric Drucker, that's right.
01:31:07 --> 01:31:10 Eric, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on again.
01:31:11 --> 01:31:16 I was very, very riveted by the book.
01:31:16 --> 01:31:19 The artwork is awesome, but the
01:31:19 --> 01:31:24 storyline is very compelling too and that that's a that's a great combination
01:31:24 --> 01:31:29 for any graphic novel so i congratulate you on putting that together and i wish
01:31:29 --> 01:31:34 you much success on that and again thank you for coming on the podcast thanks
01:31:34 --> 01:31:38 so much for having me today all right guys and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:31:40 --> 01:31:51 Music.
01:31:51 --> 01:31:57 And we are back. So I want to thank Elizabeth, Sillick, LaRue,
01:31:57 --> 01:32:01 and her husband, Yvonne, Wes, LaRue.
01:32:03 --> 01:32:08 I greatly appreciate them taking the time out to come on and talk about an issue
01:32:08 --> 01:32:11 that a lot of people were saying out loud.
01:32:11 --> 01:32:17 But I hope after the interview you understand that it's more than just a whim.
01:32:17 --> 01:32:23 If you seriously are thinking about leaving, there's some steps and you need
01:32:23 --> 01:32:24 to talk to some people in order to talk about.
01:32:25 --> 01:32:29 So Cillic Consulting Services is probably your best bet.
01:32:30 --> 01:32:37 And then Eric Drucker for coming on, you know, very insightful guy,
01:32:38 --> 01:32:40 very, very aware of what's going on in the world.
01:32:41 --> 01:32:47 And again, Naked City is a nice read.
01:32:47 --> 01:32:50 It'll make a nice gift for people because of the art.
01:32:50 --> 01:32:55 The story is, again, compelling, but the artwork is incredible.
01:32:55 --> 01:32:59 And I just like graphic novels. I do.
01:33:00 --> 01:33:06 So I'm really glad that he took the time out to come on this special episode.
01:33:06 --> 01:33:11 And the lady who helped make this
01:33:11 --> 01:33:18 interview with Eric and others said she couldn't record anything for me.
01:33:18 --> 01:33:25 She said she was a little unsavvy when it came to trying to record a message,
01:33:25 --> 01:33:28 but she wrote something. I definitely want to read it.
01:33:28 --> 01:33:32 And her name is Lissa Warren. And she's probably one of the,
01:33:33 --> 01:33:37 you know, I have about three people.
01:33:37 --> 01:33:45 Publicists that I work with to get their clients on Tiana Mignon.
01:33:46 --> 01:33:48 I was like my first one.
01:33:50 --> 01:33:56 Nanda Dissu and Nanda, Nanda, if I'm messing your name up, you know, just just hit me up.
01:33:56 --> 01:34:01 But Nanda Dissu, I've had a number of, you know, they were like my first two.
01:34:01 --> 01:34:06 But Lissa has been an incredible godsend to me as far as guests are concerned.
01:34:07 --> 01:34:10 And so she wanted, even though she couldn't record anything,
01:34:10 --> 01:34:13 she definitely wanted this message to be read.
01:34:13 --> 01:34:18 It says, congratulations, Eric, on your 300th show. Thank you for having on
01:34:18 --> 01:34:21 so many of my author clients over the past year.
01:34:21 --> 01:34:25 You've covered books on everything from the January 6th insurgents,
01:34:26 --> 01:34:30 mass incarceration and a climate crisis to the importance of rural voters,
01:34:30 --> 01:34:35 the Greensboro race massacre and what it's like to be Muslim today.
01:34:35 --> 01:34:39 I feel like there isn't an important topic that you can't handle.
01:34:40 --> 01:34:43 You don't shy away from anything and your interviews are always insightful,
01:34:44 --> 01:34:48 conversational and comfortable, even when the topics aren't.
01:34:48 --> 01:34:50 In short, you're the best. Keep at it.
01:34:51 --> 01:34:56 Thank you, Lisa, for that. And again, thank you for your help as well as my
01:34:56 --> 01:34:57 other publicist friends.
01:34:57 --> 01:35:00 And I also want to thank Ayo Sakai. Dr.
01:35:00 --> 01:35:07 Sakai has her own publishing company. And I've had a number of her authors come
01:35:07 --> 01:35:12 on the show too, Universal Right Publications, and so.
01:35:13 --> 01:35:19 I encourage y'all to support her as well and the authors in her stable.
01:35:21 --> 01:35:27 It is the only, well, I don't know if it's the only, but it's kind of like unique
01:35:27 --> 01:35:32 in that it's a black publishing company for academic writers.
01:35:33 --> 01:35:38 Basically, all y'all smart folks that got the PhDs and did all this incredible
01:35:38 --> 01:35:42 research throughout the years and stuff, created curriculums and all this fascinating thing.
01:35:42 --> 01:35:45 She is the publishing house for a
01:35:45 --> 01:35:49 lot of those authors so those ladies
01:35:49 --> 01:35:55 just those four alone have created an incredible stable of guests to make it
01:35:55 --> 01:36:02 look like i know what i'm doing and outside of my hustle and and in trying to
01:36:02 --> 01:36:06 secure people and now being part of the MBG Podcast Network.
01:36:07 --> 01:36:13 Shout out to Leonard Young for reaching out to me and giving me this opportunity
01:36:13 --> 01:36:17 and the podcast an opportunity for an even bigger audience.
01:36:18 --> 01:36:25 You know, it's been a fun ride to all of my friends I went to college with that
01:36:25 --> 01:36:32 subjected themselves to cover all the podcasts, people I've met in Mississippi politics,
01:36:32 --> 01:36:37 you know, and then just the new people who, you know,
01:36:37 --> 01:36:43 graciously accepted the invitation and came on for all those people that I've
01:36:43 --> 01:36:47 watched on CNN and MSNBC, for them to take the time out to,
01:36:48 --> 01:36:50 acknowledge that I exist and give
01:36:50 --> 01:36:54 me the respect due to be a guest on the podcast. I thank you all for that.
01:36:55 --> 01:37:02 It's been an incredible ride, and I'm hoping that the ride will continue for a while.
01:37:03 --> 01:37:08 It seems like we're going to have a lot of content based on the way the last election went.
01:37:08 --> 01:37:12 And 2026 is going to look crazy.
01:37:13 --> 01:37:17 2025, even though there's not that many races out there,
01:37:17 --> 01:37:23 just the first year of a new Trump administration, Just the first year to see
01:37:23 --> 01:37:27 how long the bromance between Elon Musk and Donald Trump continues,
01:37:27 --> 01:37:33 which one of these confirmation hearings succeeds.
01:37:34 --> 01:37:35 Right?
01:37:36 --> 01:37:40 Heck, we don't even know if we're going to have a government next week or as
01:37:40 --> 01:37:44 the podcast is coming on, you
01:37:44 --> 01:37:47 know, people go get their checks for Christmas. is hopefully they will.
01:37:47 --> 01:37:52 Hopefully by the time this airs, they've grown up and come up with a settlement,
01:37:52 --> 01:37:55 but there's going to be a lot to talk about.
01:37:56 --> 01:37:59 And, you know, so we're going to be that voice of reason.
01:38:00 --> 01:38:05 We're going to give people the opportunity to express themselves on whichever
01:38:05 --> 01:38:07 side of the coin they fall on.
01:38:08 --> 01:38:12 And we're going to still do our best to have challenging guests,
01:38:12 --> 01:38:19 You know, that may not be in the mainstream as far as the what most people look
01:38:19 --> 01:38:20 at in the political world.
01:38:20 --> 01:38:26 But again, they're doing the work or they're writing about topics and issues
01:38:26 --> 01:38:28 that elected officials should be discussing.
01:38:29 --> 01:38:35 But, you know, it's like I've already gotten some commitments from previous guests coming back on.
01:38:36 --> 01:38:38 And it's going to be timely.
01:38:39 --> 01:38:45 And I'm sure Alyssa is going to give me some more glides as well as Tiana and Nanda.
01:38:47 --> 01:38:52 This is, again, it's going to be a fun ride. Oh, Andrea McKinnon. Can't forget her.
01:38:52 --> 01:38:57 And I always want to lift up Tamina Watson. I've been trying to get Attorney
01:38:57 --> 01:39:00 Watson to come back on. I don't know how her schedule is.
01:39:01 --> 01:39:05 I expect that she's going to be busy because she's an immigration attorney.
01:39:05 --> 01:39:10 But I always want to lift her because she was the first guest ever.
01:39:10 --> 01:39:17 And then I want to thank Black Podcast Association, Black Podcasting Awards,
01:39:18 --> 01:39:22 you know, all those organizations have done a lot to help me get to this point, too.
01:39:24 --> 01:39:29 And, you know, this is not a retirement thing, but it's a milestone.
01:39:30 --> 01:39:32 And when you reach a milestone, you should acknowledge it. Right.
01:39:33 --> 01:39:36 And you should acknowledge the people that helps you get there.
01:39:36 --> 01:39:41 You know, my old college roommate who encouraged me to do the podcast,
01:39:42 --> 01:39:45 you know, who probably would sound better than me doing it.
01:39:45 --> 01:39:50 But, you know, he's always provided feedback for me. Thank you,
01:39:50 --> 01:39:52 Frat. Thank you, Vince, for doing that.
01:39:53 --> 01:39:58 You know, and my brothers, Alpha Phi Omega, I got to throw a shout out to them,
01:39:58 --> 01:39:59 brothers of the rising sun.
01:40:00 --> 01:40:10 And they, despite all of the challenges we've had, always have been encouraging,
01:40:10 --> 01:40:12 not just to me, but to each other.
01:40:13 --> 01:40:17 And yeah, so this is an important moment.
01:40:18 --> 01:40:24 And I am glad that I have been able to share this part of the journey with you all.
01:40:26 --> 01:40:29 My Chicago fam, the Lindblom folks, my family family.
01:40:30 --> 01:40:36 I have at least a couple of cousins that are really, really devout listeners. God bless you.
01:40:37 --> 01:40:41 Yeah, it's been cool. You know,
01:40:41 --> 01:40:44 it's like even though some of the issues we talk about and some of the stuff
01:40:44 --> 01:40:50 that we're dealing with is not cool, just the fact that we live in a day and
01:40:50 --> 01:40:55 a time where people like me can have a platform to talk about it,
01:40:55 --> 01:40:59 to flesh it out, and maybe come up with something a little more rational than
01:40:59 --> 01:41:02 what our quote-unquote elected leaders are doing.
01:41:03 --> 01:41:06 So, you know, we're going to keep rocking and rolling.
01:41:07 --> 01:41:12 This has been, and again, Grace, she, what a godsend she's been.
01:41:13 --> 01:41:19 Thank you for your professionalism. and the way that you just handle business.
01:41:19 --> 01:41:22 You know, it seems like for y'all it's just a two-minute segment,
01:41:22 --> 01:41:28 but there's a lot of work that she puts into it, and I'm not the only person she works with.
01:41:29 --> 01:41:35 So the fact that she's been loyal and very supportive means a lot.
01:41:35 --> 01:41:43 So anyway, I just want to remind you all that we're going to keep doing this
01:41:43 --> 01:41:44 and we're going to keep fighting the good fight.
01:41:46 --> 01:41:49 And everybody knows or most people that follow
01:41:49 --> 01:41:52 this know my political bent and my political philosophy
01:41:52 --> 01:41:58 on things and that regardless of political affiliation and all that I'm always
01:41:58 --> 01:42:03 going to look out for the uplift of black people first and when I say black
01:42:03 --> 01:42:08 people I mean the whole diaspora I'm not trying to parse whether you're from
01:42:08 --> 01:42:12 Detroit or you're whether you're from Accra or from Kingston.
01:42:13 --> 01:42:18 You know, black folks worldwide need to be uplifted, even with a whole continent of black folks.
01:42:19 --> 01:42:24 If you read some of the stuff I read on Reuters and the BBC and all that stuff,
01:42:24 --> 01:42:30 it's not a crystal stair for those brothers and sisters over there either. And.
01:42:31 --> 01:42:38 Just the reality of the world. But our job is to uplift black folks.
01:42:39 --> 01:42:45 My crusade is to uplift black folks. And so this podcast is an extension of that crusade.
01:42:45 --> 01:42:49 And I appreciate y'all joining me on that.
01:42:49 --> 01:42:55 But I say all that to say that for those people who don't agree with what I
01:42:55 --> 01:42:57 say, you are always welcome to come on.
01:42:58 --> 01:43:03 You are always welcome to voice your opinion and you'll be given a fair shot to express it.
01:43:04 --> 01:43:09 I always have the discretion to tear apart the argument or whatever,
01:43:09 --> 01:43:12 but not during your time.
01:43:12 --> 01:43:16 I believe in being polite. I believe in being fair.
01:43:17 --> 01:43:23 My advantage is I can record a whole segment anytime I want to,
01:43:23 --> 01:43:27 to challenge what you say, but I want to give you the opportunity to say it.
01:43:27 --> 01:43:32 So don't be afraid because there's been some folks I've reached out to and they've
01:43:32 --> 01:43:35 kind of like did the hymn and hall and whatever.
01:43:35 --> 01:43:39 Don't be afraid to come on because if I've reached out to you,
01:43:39 --> 01:43:44 it's because you've made a statement somewhere publicly that caught my attention.
01:43:44 --> 01:43:51 And I want you to come on the show and talk about it to the audience that I have.
01:43:52 --> 01:43:59 And you'll get 30 minutes. So, you know, give or take, usually a little more.
01:43:59 --> 01:44:03 So, you know, the invite is out there for anyone.
01:44:04 --> 01:44:09 But I really, like I said, I'm not really trying to get all the high profile people.
01:44:09 --> 01:44:15 I'm trying to get the folks that are doing the work to get people in positions
01:44:15 --> 01:44:19 to understand And there are some issues out there and there are some real people
01:44:19 --> 01:44:24 out there trying to do real work and they need some real help. Right.
01:44:25 --> 01:44:29 So anyway, that's my celebratory rant for today.
01:44:30 --> 01:44:35 Again, thank you all. 300 episodes is a milestone and I am honored and humbled
01:44:35 --> 01:44:37 that we've gotten that far.
01:44:38 --> 01:44:41 All right. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.
01:44:42 --> 01:45:29 Music.
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