[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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[00:01:21] Hello and welcome to another moment where Erik Fleming, I am your host, Erik Fleming.
[00:01:41] And today I have a couple of guests on that's going to talk about resilience and empowerment.
[00:01:53] Both of these ladies are emblematic, symbolic, a great representation of those two themes
[00:02:05] and I hope that y'all will pick up on that during the interviews. I am really honored
[00:02:13] to have them come on and again, I look forward to y'all's feedback on how you felt those
[00:02:25] interviews went. So without any further ado, ladies and gentlemen, it's time for
[00:02:33] a moment of news with Grace G.
[00:02:44] Thanks Erik. A federal court reinstated a South Carolina electoral map, which was previously
[00:02:50] thrown out due to bias against black voters for the current year's congressional elections.
[00:02:55] Crystal Mason, who was sentenced for illegal voting in Texas, was acquitted by an appeals
[00:03:00] court after a higher court's order to review the case. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., an independent
[00:03:06] presidential candidate, chose technology attorney Nicole Shanahan as his vice presidential running
[00:03:12] mate. President Joe Biden, joined by Barack Obama and Bill Clinton, held a fundraiser
[00:03:18] which raised over $25 million for Biden's reelection campaign. A federal court in
[00:03:23] Texas favored by conservatives will not adhere to a new policy meant to prevent
[00:03:28] judge shopping in cases challenging federal or state laws. The US government has rapidly
[00:03:34] allocated $60 million to Maryland for cleanup and construction after the Francis Scott
[00:03:40] Key Bridge collapse. President Biden condemned Russia for detaining Wall Street Journal reporter
[00:03:46] Evan Gershkovich, marking one year since his arrest on spying charges. The Republican
[00:03:51] controlled US House of Representatives will send two articles of impeachment against
[00:03:56] Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas to the Senate on April 10. Former New Jersey
[00:04:02] Governor Chris Christie has declined to run for president as a no-labels candidate.
[00:04:08] Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers vetoed a bill that would restrict transgender and intersex
[00:04:13] children from playing on sex-segregated sports teams. A California judge recommended
[00:04:19] disbarment for John Eastman, Trump's former lawyer, for attempts to overturn the 2020
[00:04:24] election results. The White House announced updated federal data collection standards on
[00:04:29] race and ethnicity, including a new category for Middle Eastern or North African identities.
[00:04:36] The FDA's proposed ban on menthol cigarettes has been delayed as the White House missed
[00:04:42] another deadline to issue a final rule. And Oscar award-winning actor Lewis Gossett
[00:04:48] Jr. died at the age of 87. I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.
[00:04:55] All right, Grace. And thank you for that moment of news. And now it's time for my first
[00:05:09] guest, Evelyn Law Chappelle. In 2013, Evelyn found herself facing adversity, convicted on
[00:05:21] three charges related to her minor role in a marijuana distribution operation. Despite
[00:05:27] a challenging period that led to an 87-month prison sentence, Evelyn emerged stronger
[00:05:32] and determined to make a positive impact. Today, Evelyn is a driving force in the
[00:05:38] legal cannabis industry, utilizing her professional position to advocate for restorative justice.
[00:05:45] As a proud owner and founder of the Weed Lady gift shop and lifestyle brand, she is on
[00:05:50] a mission to normalize cannabis consumption and create opportunities for the formerly
[00:05:55] incarcerated to find their path in this evolving industry. Evelyn's journey is
[00:06:01] a powerful narrative of both defeat and victory. She is committed to pushing her brand,
[00:06:07] the Weed Lady forward with a focus on luxury cannabis essentials, apparel, cannabis delivery,
[00:06:14] and soon-to-be-release cannabis beverages. Beyond her entrepreneurial ventures, Evelyn
[00:06:20] is the co-creator of Kana Kick It, the Bay Area's premier cannabis day party. Additionally,
[00:06:27] she is a founding member of Ladies Loving and Living, a nonprofit organization dedicated
[00:06:33] to serving women post-incarceration. In 2023, Evelyn took her passion for empowering others
[00:06:40] to the airways with the launch of her own podcast, Rhyme Time. This podcast serves
[00:06:45] as a behind-the-scenes look at becoming an entrepreneur, offering valuable insights
[00:06:51] and practical advice by helping listeners transform their to-do list to their dead
[00:06:57] lists and turning dreams into reality. Evelyn Law Chappelle is not just a name,
[00:07:02] but a symbol of resilience, advocacy, and entrepreneurial spirit. Ladies and gentlemen,
[00:07:09] it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Evelyn Law Chappelle.
[00:07:27] All right. Evelyn Law Chappelle, how are you doing, sister? You doing good?
[00:07:34] I'm doing good. Thank you for asking. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast.
[00:07:40] You know, one of the cool things since I've been doing the guest thing is,
[00:07:47] you know, connecting with people on LinkedIn and just checking out their stories, right?
[00:07:53] And so, I've had some people on dealing with the issue with legalization of marijuana,
[00:08:03] and I actually do have a guest committed to come on that's going to give the opposite position.
[00:08:10] And that's one thing I try to do on this podcast is try to give both sides and let the people
[00:08:14] decide how they feel about it. But yours, your story is a little different. And it's actually an
[00:08:22] angle that, you know, touching on it with certain people, they've never experienced what you've
[00:08:29] experienced. So I wanted you to come on from that perspective and talk about that. But before we
[00:08:35] get into that, one of the things I do is that I ask guests to respond to a quote. And it's
[00:08:43] either something they may have said, something they may have written or something related to
[00:08:47] the work. So this is your quote, we are living among many people who were previously incarcerated
[00:08:56] and are walking and carrying lots of shame and lots of guilt because of it. And I would just
[00:09:03] ask that people soften their heart and their language. You just don't know who you're
[00:09:10] sitting with. What does that quote mean to you?
[00:09:18] I don't know that I would have been able to transition from prison back home had I not spent
[00:09:31] time the last maybe nine months of my incarceration working on shame and guilt with
[00:09:37] listening to and learning the teachings of Brene Brown, who is like shame and guilt guru.
[00:09:46] Sorry about the dog. I hope it's not interrupting us.
[00:09:50] No, we're good.
[00:09:52] Okay. But shame and guilt was certainly something that I had to work on coming home
[00:10:00] from prison. It stands out for me being a former inmate and just being a parent carries a lot
[00:10:09] of shame and guilt. For instance, I was at a softball game yesterday and there's a parent that
[00:10:15] gives my daughter a ride home after practice that I hadn't met yet. And so this is my first
[00:10:19] time meeting him. But before I even knew who he was, he had on his corrections hoodie.
[00:10:27] And so he's a prison corrections officer. And immediately I feel a little shame for my daughter,
[00:10:36] right? Because where I'm very vocal and open about my incarceration, about my prison sentence,
[00:10:42] her friends maybe follow me on Instagram. So they're very open about it. And now I'm in the car
[00:10:48] with the corrections officer who I am assuming has very different views on legalization,
[00:10:56] you know, the criminalization of it. And so there's still a tinge of shame left. But with all of the
[00:11:02] work that I do, it's really to help myself and others sort of come up with that hurdle.
[00:11:10] There's a lot of people in prison that don't belong there. There's a lot of,
[00:11:15] I spent most of my time in a prison camp. So I was in there with a bunch of Martha Stewart.
[00:11:19] And so it's not even the imagery that folks have of who's in a prison camp.
[00:11:25] Lots of grandmothers, aunties, lots of folks in there because they found their taxes wrong or
[00:11:30] their husbands did some illegal banking. And shame is there for sure. And so what that quote
[00:11:39] just said, it's just recognizing that. And it's in so many other things. So we're navigating this
[00:11:48] as a community that doesn't have a voice as a community that's not seen, you can't see my felony
[00:11:56] from the from the outside. I've been unemployed for almost a year. And like
[00:12:03] part of what's keeping me from continuing to seek employment is the shame of having to
[00:12:09] like address that with another professional. And so it's really what landed me into
[00:12:15] entrepreneurship. If you think like if I think about it, it's the shame that sort of pushed me
[00:12:20] into becoming an entrepreneur. So let's talk about the journey. You were a college student.
[00:12:29] And so let's go from how you were a college student to now being an activist and an
[00:12:35] entrepreneur. Let's fill in the blanks a little bit.
[00:12:37] What a journey I will. I went to the University of Loyola, Marymount in Los Angeles,
[00:12:48] and I was going to study theater. And my dad was like Adam it like no study business. And so I
[00:12:54] studied business with an emphasis in entrepreneurship. It wasn't my heart. I learned a lot.
[00:13:01] The school is great. They're known for the entrepreneurship program. So I know I, you
[00:13:05] know, the information set in there. But it wasn't something that I was seeking. I used to actually
[00:13:11] blame my dad for like I wanted to be an actress, you know, and you made me go to business school.
[00:13:16] But we always learn life in hindsight, right? So he saw something that I didn't see
[00:13:21] and that I was going to need this later. And so while I was in college, I allowed a friend
[00:13:28] who ended up becoming my co-defendant to deposit his income into my bank account.
[00:13:34] And that income was coming from the sale of cannabis. And so this was during my third year in college.
[00:13:41] I literally, it lasted for nine months from January to September. He had deposits come in.
[00:13:47] After September, I sort of moved on with my life, graduated from university, moved back home in
[00:13:53] the Bay Area and then was arrested for those funds that I let him deposit into my account.
[00:14:00] I spent five years, received a seven year sentence, spent five years in custody,
[00:14:07] two and a half years on probation, got a job, doing what I do, which is event catering, coordinating
[00:14:17] for the hotels. I intended on climbing that corporate ladder all the way to like executive at
[00:14:23] the hotels in hospitality and somebody Googled my name, realized I was a felon and I got fired.
[00:14:31] And that's it. Like, you know, you're not going to fire me twice. So I was like, and now it's
[00:14:39] time to be an entrepreneur and own my own future. And you realize, I realized something that I
[00:14:46] wish I would have realized a long time ago, but no one's coming to save you. And I think
[00:14:52] that is the piece that pushes entrepreneurs out of their comfort zone. It was like realizing
[00:14:58] corporate America doesn't want me, I've just lost five years to the prison system,
[00:15:04] you know, get up and do something. So.
[00:15:08] So how hard was it for you to make the transition back to society? And what was
[00:15:14] the opportunity? So you said that, for example, that you had a good job, somebody found out that
[00:15:22] you had a record and you lost that job. So what was the opportunity to get you into
[00:15:32] the legal cannabis industry?
[00:15:35] Yeah, I was actually very blessed.
[00:15:37] I mean, extremely blessed that there was a pathway ahead of me. And I say that it's a real blessing
[00:15:46] because so many people come home and they won't get these blessings. And so I don't want,
[00:15:52] what I hate for is people to look at me and say, look, she did it, she made it,
[00:15:57] and then judge the people that didn't know like I just was in the right room.
[00:16:02] No, like I just was in the right room and with the right appearance and the right
[00:16:09] articulation. And it was a blessing. But when I came home, I was connected with the organization
[00:16:15] that was advocating for cannabis inmates. And they asked me to speak out of fundraiser that
[00:16:22] they were having until I spoke. And once I got off the stage, there was an
[00:16:27] company in the audience called Vertosa that they manufacture the emotions that go into making
[00:16:37] cannabis products, topicals, edibles or beverages. So they turn that oil into a water
[00:16:43] soluble solution. And just off hearing my story, they were like, we need to give you a job.
[00:16:49] I think I just got fired too. So I told everyone how I got fired. And they were like,
[00:16:55] what do you do? And I was like sales and catering is what I do. And so they made me their community
[00:17:01] engagement manager up into the pandemic, planning all of their events, conferences, happy hours,
[00:17:11] internal external events. And that was my first paid position in the regulated industry. And
[00:17:18] it just blew my mind. Like I'm straight out of prison and I'm in here with the CEO, CEO,
[00:17:25] they have their whiteboard out and they're talking about sales in numbers of pounds and pounds and
[00:17:32] pounds of weed. And I'm, and I know for sure at this point that there are still people sitting
[00:17:38] in life for this plant. And so it just blew my mind to see the suits and ties trading
[00:17:45] this plant. And so many of my co-defendants were still locked up.
[00:17:50] Yeah. That's one of the things that
[00:17:57] this sister Michelle Alexander had talked about. And, you know, that there was this movement
[00:18:05] when the movement really started nationwide to legalize cannabis, because it'd been a
[00:18:11] movement for a long time. And, and, but it just started picking up momentum. And then with
[00:18:20] Colorado success story, it really kind of took off. And so one of the things that she was saying
[00:18:28] was that all these states that are thinking about it, there needs to be members of the
[00:18:34] legislature to say, okay, so part of this deal in legalizing it is that we need to let these people
[00:18:43] out that have been charged with it in some way, shape or form. So that was kind of one of my
[00:18:49] questions. It was like if, if, if I was still in the legislature and we had a bill
[00:18:56] to legalize marijuana and expunge the record to people convicted of simple marijuana possession,
[00:19:02] what would you say to me to convince me to support that legislation?
[00:19:09] I would first say that simple possession is not enough. If we were legalizing this plant,
[00:19:17] and we could all grow it freely, happily and enjoy it. And possession of it is the only thing
[00:19:25] that you are making, that you are criminalizing. Fine. But to a legislator or to the president
[00:19:34] who continues to only want to pardon our expunge folks for simple possession, I don't think it's
[00:19:40] enough when this country is set to, when this industry, I think it's said to be over a $30
[00:19:47] billion industry by 2027. It's traded on the global stock exchange and it was deemed essential
[00:19:56] during a global pandemic. When all the restaurants are shut down, when you can't get into the stores,
[00:20:03] the dispensaries remained open. And those folks continued to rack in millions of dollars that
[00:20:11] support our states through taxes, then simple possession really only
[00:20:19] clears up those people who got arrested and convicted for smoking, which is just rare. Most
[00:20:26] folks are selling weed and that's what they're getting arrested for. And if you got picked up
[00:20:32] for simple possession in order to make the charges stick, they most likely added other
[00:20:37] charges, intent to sale. My charge, my crime was allowing those funds to be deposited into my bank
[00:20:47] account. That's a money laundering charge. That's not even a cannabis related charge. So those
[00:20:55] provisions don't really assist the people who are charged for operating in this industry
[00:21:03] pre-regulation. And so that's why I say to simple possession. And then to this notion that before a
[00:21:11] state legalizes that this should be written into the policy, I've said it a thousand times,
[00:21:19] I think the cannabis industry has enough buying power. We bring enough taxes to the states
[00:21:26] that legalize that it really should be a demand. It should be the cannabis industry won't even operate
[00:21:33] in this state or consider legalization in this state until you release the men and women who are
[00:21:39] still incarcerated. The problem is the incarcerated population is completely unheard and unseen,
[00:21:46] and it leaves the average civilian to think that with legalization came retroactive
[00:21:57] legislation for the inmates, and it didn't. Like so many people think that once they legalize those
[00:22:03] people are free. And I am often surprising people that there's still people serving life.
[00:22:09] Parker Coleman is still serving a 60 year sentence for nonviolent cannabis events.
[00:22:17] To the politicians, you're not doing enough. Yeah, and that's good. That's good because it's like
[00:22:22] you're basically saying look sir we need you to amend the legislation. And trust me those kind of
[00:22:29] conversations happened a lot where it's like yeah we're glad that you're supporting the concept
[00:22:35] but this is what we really want. So that's good and that's something that needs to be
[00:22:41] really really articulated from activists like you.
[00:22:48] Talk about your work with ladies loving and living. Yes that is my newest baby ladies loving and
[00:22:58] living. So that is an organization that I started with two other women Natalia Wade and Carly
[00:23:04] Kramer all three of us incarcerated for cannabis and all three of us realizing that the prison system
[00:23:13] the reentry system the second chances all of these programs for the most part are geared towards men.
[00:23:21] Right we'll train you in a trade we'll get you forklift train like all of this work
[00:23:28] and all of these resources that are geared towards men we wanted to fill in the gap. Ladies loving and
[00:23:35] living is literally the opposite of ladies writing and dying that culture that continues to get us
[00:23:41] wrapped up in this system of like you know ride or die and so we want to encourage women to
[00:23:47] love and live and so our program are the organization has a three-part program it
[00:23:53] has the lady care packages so that when women are transitioning into the halfway house they are greeted
[00:24:00] with a welcome home package which for me meant the world I had a friend in San Diego who sent a box and
[00:24:08] it had a blow dryer a flat iron some pajamas pillowcases like just to restore the dignity of all of
[00:24:17] the things that are stripped from you in prison as a woman like you can't even comb your hair
[00:24:21] as a woman and so the care packages is the first greeting them home with that and then wanting to
[00:24:31] trans just transition or at least offer the ladies the opportunity to create their own income so we
[00:24:37] have the ladies entrepreneurial programming which we provide grants for the women to start
[00:24:43] their own small micro businesses through vending machines or ATM so they have to do the work
[00:24:50] of finding the location for these machines will provide the grant and we will also offer training
[00:24:57] on how to keep the you know your costs of goods down how to maintain your inventory how to keep
[00:25:02] open communication with your vendor locations and then there's the lady wellness program
[00:25:10] because going to prison you lose a lot and you lose that loss comes in so many different
[00:25:17] levels like I lost a parent you're you losing years with your children you're losing for me
[00:25:24] my career like I really thought that my career was going to be in hospitality I lost that
[00:25:31] I lost I don't want to put this out in the air but I went in at 28 I'm 40 now I really feel
[00:25:38] like I lost the opportunity to have more children so there's like levels to the
[00:25:43] loss and so creating programs that allow women to grieve that loss to really come to terms with
[00:25:51] what you've lost and then to start looking forward to your future and so that's ladies loving and
[00:25:58] living well I'm glad you put that out there because one of the things that there's a couple
[00:26:03] of things I want to ask you specifically about your program what kind of support do you have
[00:26:10] for women who are transitioning back and you know in trying to re-establish relationships
[00:26:20] with your children yeah the y'all have a support mechanism is that something y'all working on
[00:26:27] and then the other question I wanted to ask was about since this is a political show
[00:26:34] about voting and I don't know what the laws are in California about getting their voting rights back
[00:26:40] once they've been incarcerated you know so are you are you getting into those areas as well
[00:26:49] it is our intention so right now we haven't been able to supply support in the terms of
[00:26:58] rebuilding families we are still like heavily fundraising our hygiene bags at retail value
[00:27:05] are like five hundred dollars a piece and we're just starting our fundraising campaign and
[00:27:12] side note even it has been slowed down because our the founders are felons and so our bank account
[00:27:19] has been closed just off of the we're felons right and so even wanting to do good work has
[00:27:27] been blocked in many ways but to speak to the family transition I mean what a huge transition
[00:27:37] that is from going to being a prison mom to an in-person mom and I've been home for five years
[00:27:44] now and I really I am a hundred percent sure that that needs to come with professional
[00:27:50] counseling transitioning and I haven't even had the opportunity to afford that and so there will
[00:27:57] be a point where it will be my focus to make that affordable for parents and children because
[00:28:04] raising a teenage daughter is enough raising a teenage daughter who you left you know and went
[00:28:10] to prison and they for me my I believe I had become the fun mom like my mom my daughter
[00:28:17] would visit me in prison and we're eating snacks out of any machines and playing battleship for hours
[00:28:23] and we did that for years and then I came home and she quickly learned mom cares about my homework
[00:28:29] she cares about what I'm eating she likes to fuss right and so it's a real transition for kids
[00:28:37] and if you're not careful there's resentments that are built and maybe a level of manipulation right
[00:28:48] like you went to jail when you left me so all of these things that need to be addressed
[00:28:54] and voting I am a federal felon and so my first voting round when I came home I thought
[00:29:01] I couldn't vote and my mom had just watched something where the lady had went to jail
[00:29:06] for voting as a felony so she like freaked out you are not voting you can't vote so I was like
[00:29:10] you're right I'm not going to vote but I learned that as a federal felon even on probation you
[00:29:17] could vote because you're not considered in custody so there's a lot of misinformation
[00:29:23] and so yes absolutely ladies loving and living will be a resource for the correct information
[00:29:30] we actually just connected with uh core which is an Alameda County here in California um
[00:29:38] reentry service through probation and so it's a direct line to all the up-to-date current
[00:29:45] information for the ladies that come through the program yeah that's you know both of those
[00:29:50] components to me are very very important um uh I don't know if you had a chance to even
[00:29:57] check into me but you know like I said I was a former state legislator and when I got elected
[00:30:03] I was in law enforcement and then you know I've been in law enforcement in two different states
[00:30:09] but one of the one of the main issues when I was a legislator was in Mississippi
[00:30:15] you literally have to have a bill with your name on it so in your case if you had come to me
[00:30:23] and said Representative Fleming I need to get my voting rights back then I would have to introduce
[00:30:29] a bill that had Evelyn Losiapel's name on it and and what you were charged with and introduce that
[00:30:37] as a single bill and we would get on average about 3 000 requests a year and we'd be lucky to
[00:30:47] get 10 right because the criteria in Mississippi is that even though the the statute says the
[00:30:56] minutes you get out you can give it but the reality is is that on the House side we want to see if
[00:31:02] you've been out for five years right and haven't gotten any trouble then we send it over to the
[00:31:08] Senate then the Senate's going to check to see if you paid all your restitution back
[00:31:12] and then once you pass that test if you can get out a committee in both of those houses
[00:31:18] and get it passed then the governor signs it and then you get your voting rights back
[00:31:22] so in in nine years of service I got at least three people they're voting rights back
[00:31:29] and a lot of people are like how'd you do that you know what I'm saying but fortunately I served
[00:31:36] on the committee in the house that dealt with it so you know and one the toughest one I had was
[00:31:46] one of the victims of a person that I was pushing through was the attorney for the committee
[00:31:52] and the only reason why I got it passed is because he liked me and he said well
[00:31:56] representatives since you're the one pushing it and you can vouch for
[00:32:00] but you know I'll back off my objection and you know and we got it passed and she got her rights back
[00:32:07] but yeah so that's something that's always been important to me and so I'm glad that you're
[00:32:16] you know you're addressing that in some kind of way
[00:32:20] in one of your episodes go ahead say something I just wanted to add that that process just is
[00:32:27] absurd right and and absolutely put in place to discriminate and to prevent folks from getting
[00:32:37] to the voting polls which is just absurd but it reminds me of the position that I'm in now
[00:32:44] of wanting to get my record clear and the only person being able to do that
[00:32:50] is the sitting president right and it's like as the president of the United States as the
[00:32:55] House Committee as the senator there's so many other things that you have on your plate the world
[00:33:02] is upside down the economy the pandemic just the crime here like to put the voting rights or to put
[00:33:13] my expungement on the plates of such high officials just seems extremely counterproductive
[00:33:21] and if I had a piece of the legislation that I will go after if there if there was a in any
[00:33:28] like I'm completely jaded by the government and so I don't too much get involved I don't have any
[00:33:34] faith I don't believe in it I do vote I show care and concern but I just don't have faith
[00:33:40] that the right things are going to be done but if I had the heart to go after something
[00:33:45] it's it's this piece of creating committees that are specifically for restoring the rights
[00:33:53] of former inmates because you've served your time so all of these extra barriers are all of these
[00:34:00] extra punishments that are not included in your sentencing when you when you receive
[00:34:05] you know your sentence that that needs to be looked like that's ridiculous
[00:34:11] yeah yeah it is ridiculous and you know to vote like they're not asking for money they just want
[00:34:18] to vote well you know and you brought up the point that the the the crimes that will take your
[00:34:28] votes away in Mississippi was instituted in the 1894 convention I mean constitution and so
[00:34:35] they basically were looking at crimes that they thought black folks did
[00:34:39] and and said okay those eight crimes because one of the crimes which is phenomenal to me but
[00:34:46] you know it's bigger me if you marry more than one person you lose your right to vote right
[00:34:51] so uh like I said they just thought these are the things they thought black people did
[00:34:56] right and so you know and they and you know up until this date they still haven't changed that process
[00:35:06] so yeah it's it is it is ridiculous but you know hopefully and I've got good friends still in
[00:35:12] the legislature and they're fighting to try to change that process so I'm glad that like I said
[00:35:19] that that's an issue that you want to tackle oh the other ironic thing I wanted to say to
[00:35:23] you is that in Mississippi if you were arrested on a drug charge in Mississippi you don't lose your
[00:35:30] right to vote because in 1894 that they weren't thinking like that so it's like we we got a lot
[00:35:38] of people voting absentee that were you know charged with possession charges or intent
[00:35:44] to sell charges and all that kind of stuff so I just wanted to throw that aside in there
[00:35:49] so my last question to you is this in one of the episodes of your podcast grind time
[00:35:56] you talked about a sermon you heard concerning taking up space explain how taking up space
[00:36:03] is important for people struggling to make the transition from incarceration back into society
[00:36:09] the opposite of taking up space is shrinking and when especially you started this podcast
[00:36:21] this conversation off with shame right and so if you're carrying the burden of the shame
[00:36:26] and the guilt of your incarceration then you are inclined to shrink and there has been instances
[00:36:34] where I believe I am shrinking because I believe that the value of my voice in my insight because
[00:36:43] of my incarceration is diminished and so I that's that it was a sermon but it actually came from
[00:36:52] the book of Clarence a movie just produced about Timothy from the Bible and it the mother had
[00:37:00] encouraged her son to take up space and it's really propelled me into speaking loudly and not you know
[00:37:11] not value-wise but but speaking honestly about my experience owning the value that I bring to
[00:37:20] not only the cannabis industry but the re in the reentry space um and in my career of curating
[00:37:28] events like owning your experience owning your accomplishments as a woman as a black woman we
[00:37:38] have sort of diminished our voice and have learned easily how to shrink in the crowd and so taking
[00:37:45] up space for me just means chin up chest out you know I've got it written on my mirror chin
[00:37:52] up chest out a walk with authority walk like you have a purpose even if the purpose is not clear yet
[00:37:59] you know take up space let them I myself talk now is like let them know Evelyn Lashappell is in the
[00:38:07] room um and and and not entering spaces trying to see who's important and who do I need to talk to
[00:38:15] who do I need to pitch to who am I needing to sell my ideas to and uh I'm more so on a how can I
[00:38:23] add value now how can I when I enter the room what am I bringing and that's how I'm taking up space
[00:38:31] so if people want to get in touch with you and people want to buy some of your products and
[00:38:37] all that stuff this is your time to plug that how do people reach out to you so my favorite
[00:38:46] way right now is youtube on and the grind time podcast where every day you can get in touch with
[00:38:52] what I'm doing to create a profitable business on youtube you can find me on the we lady channel
[00:39:00] grind time podcast I make it very easy for you to shop the gift shop it is call the we lady calm
[00:39:08] you no longer have to call the we man you can call the we lady there are no thc products on the
[00:39:14] store so no one's going to jail it's a gift shop curated for your week for the we lady in your
[00:39:21] life for the women consumers our mission is to normalize cannabis consumption uh the brand
[00:39:27] is the we lady the message is we does not a crime and every purchase supports a woman formerly
[00:39:34] incarcerated for cannabis and on instagram it's 87 months underscore the we lady of 87 months
[00:39:42] is the sentence that I received for depositing cannabis profits all right well evalence
[00:39:49] la chappelle first of all um thank you for coming on the podcast um yep yep let me
[00:40:01] if you would indulge me let me let me encourage you I think that what you are doing
[00:40:09] is so vitally important not just for the particular uh issue about marijuana and
[00:40:18] it's legalization and all that stuff but it's about to transition because see I'm just like you
[00:40:25] I believe that when you pay your debt to society you paid it and you know one of the things that
[00:40:36] you know I used to do a lot was when I was uh had work detail and I would have inmates and
[00:40:45] most of the guys were state inmates and when they came to me they were in their last year
[00:40:50] right so they were working off that last little bit of time so they can get out earlier and they
[00:40:56] would ask me questions about you know what should I do and all this kind of stuff and the only thing
[00:41:04] that was consistent with everybody because everybody's situation is different but the
[00:41:09] thing is stay focused uh you know one of one of my favorite uh quotes in the bible from paul is
[00:41:19] keep pressing toward the higher mark right and so you are on that path to keep pressing
[00:41:27] toward a higher mark uh I hope that all sorts of opportunities uh continue to open up for you
[00:41:36] in this space that you're you're in uh not just from the business aspect but from the advocacy side
[00:41:42] because the more people and that's why I wanted to ask you that question about taking up space
[00:41:48] because the more people that stand up and articulate what they're going through and and fighting for
[00:41:56] a change in that the better we're going to be as a society so uh I'm honored to meet you
[00:42:03] um now that you've been a guest on the podcast you have an open invitation to come you say hey
[00:42:09] look eric I need to talk about this let's make that happen so again thank you for coming on and
[00:42:16] thank you for the work that you're in doing and and just keep pressing toward that high mark
[00:42:22] thank you thank you thank you for the encouragement and the insight and the scripture
[00:42:27] if you if you have no idea I'm taking that with me today so thank you I appreciate you
[00:42:32] all right guys we're going to catch up on the other side
[00:42:43] all right and we are back and so now my next guest is dr c
[00:43:04] nicole mason recently named one of the world's 50 greatest leaders by fortune magazine
[00:43:13] dr c nicole mason is president slash ceo emeritus of the institute for women's policy
[00:43:23] and research the iwpr having stepped into this role in november 2019 dr mason was the youngest
[00:43:31] to lead one of the major inside the beltway think tanks in washington dc and one of the
[00:43:37] few women of color to do so as one of the nation's foremost intersectional researchers and scholars
[00:43:45] dr c nicole mason brings a fresh perspective and a wealth of experience to the institute for
[00:43:51] women's policy research for the past two decades dr mason has spearheaded research on issues
[00:43:58] relating to economic security pay equity poverty women's issues and entitlement reforms
[00:44:06] policy formation and political participation among women in communities of color and racial equity
[00:44:14] prior to iwpr dr mason was the executive director of the women of color policy network
[00:44:21] at new york university's robber f wagner graduate school of public service the nation's
[00:44:27] only research and policy center focused on women of color at a nationally ranked school of public
[00:44:33] administration she is also an inaugural ascend fellow at the aspen institute in washington dc
[00:44:40] it started a pandemic she coined the term she session to describe the disproportionate impact
[00:44:46] of employment and income losses on women dr mason is the author of born bright a young girl's
[00:44:53] journey from nothing to something in america and has written hundreds of articles on women
[00:44:58] poverty and economic security her writing and commentary have been featured in the new york
[00:45:04] times msnbc cnn mbc cbs the washington post reclare the progressive essence bustle bigthink
[00:45:16] miami herald democracy now and numerous npr affiliates among others and she is now
[00:45:24] embarking on that's the reason why i emphasize the word ameritas on a new organization that
[00:45:30] she's starting and we'll get into that in the interview so ladies and gentlemen it is my
[00:45:35] distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast dr c nicole mason
[00:45:56] all right dr c nicole mason how you doing ma'am you're doing good i'm doing well i'm doing well
[00:46:04] well i am really really honored to have you on um i connected with you on linkedin and uh
[00:46:15] you know sometimes when you when you connect with people and you say hey this this sister is
[00:46:20] doing something i'd like to get her on the podcast i didn't realize i was getting like
[00:46:25] you know a superstar i was just i was just you know i said this sister's doing some good work so
[00:46:31] let me just let me just get her on but i i'm really i'm really really honored that you accepted my
[00:46:37] invitation so thank you oh thank you for inviting me i really i love podcasts and i love talking
[00:46:43] about my work and um so you know it's great and thank you for reaching out all right so normally
[00:46:52] when i when i do this i i try to find a quote and is either something that is related to the
[00:46:59] work that they're doing something that the guests might have said or something that they might have
[00:47:03] written so your quote is this when you live your life on your own terms you have few regrets
[00:47:14] what does that quote mean to you it means just that so um when you chart your own path
[00:47:21] when you decide what you want regardless of what's happening outside or what people are telling you
[00:47:27] you should be or do everything tends to work out and you end up with a life that you've created as
[00:47:37] opposed to a life that has been created for you or you've been told what your limits are and what
[00:47:43] you can or cannot do or be and um you have very few regrets about that when you do it that way
[00:47:51] um when i invited you you were part of a work a particular organization and now i understand
[00:48:02] you're not a part of our organization anymore and you're starting a new one so let's what will be
[00:48:09] the purpose and mission of future forward women the new organization that you're involved with
[00:48:16] so i've been doing women's advocacy work for the last two decades i started during my time at
[00:48:24] howie university um and since then i've had the opportunity to be a part of and to run and lead
[00:48:33] a lot of different women's organizations and so future forward women is an opportunity for me to
[00:48:40] bring all the things together all the things that i really care about and really work to build women's
[00:48:46] power and influence um in my work what i found is that um women's advocates or women's issues we
[00:48:54] always run up and run into a brick wall when we're trying to get universal child care paid sick leave
[00:49:01] or run for elected office and what i've learned is that the reason why we lose or don't get
[00:49:07] what we get is that we don't have a lot of power and influence and so really doing my part to increase
[00:49:14] women's power influence so that we can see real change
[00:49:21] um so how did a girl living in poverty from lindwood california become one of the world's
[00:49:30] 50 greatest leaders
[00:49:32] that's a that's a really big question and um i have a question i haven't thought about in a really long time
[00:49:41] but i'll start by saying that um it's really been about tenacity i think grit really having a vision for myself that
[00:49:58] i don't think i could see at the time or when i think about my beginning or i was raised by a
[00:50:05] teenage mom single mom and we really struggled to make ends meet and even then thinking that
[00:50:14] there had to be something else there had to be a different way there had to be um something else
[00:50:21] for me and i just want to say that for a little brown girl raised by a teenage single mother the bar
[00:50:29] for my success was really low um and and a lot of times people a lot of times people wrote me off
[00:50:37] but my own tenacity my own discipline my own unwillingness to take no for an answer
[00:50:44] sort of set me on this path to where i am today and um for that i'm really very grateful and when
[00:50:52] i take a step back to look at how far i've come and what i've been able to contribute to the world it's
[00:50:59] just it it you know it makes me teary sometimes and um i know that i'm on the right path
[00:51:06] in your book born bright you stated that you would be perceived a winner by both democrats
[00:51:15] and republicans but you didn't feel like one expound on why you felt that way
[00:51:24] well so when you think about poverty and you think about people getting out of poverty
[00:51:30] or escaping poverty and you can't see it but i'm putting escaping in quotation marks
[00:51:35] democrats like to hold up me as an example of a person who did all the right things and
[00:51:42] you know use social supports to um get out of poverty and enter the middle class and
[00:51:51] republicans use me in a different way to say well if she can do it you can do it you're just not
[00:51:58] working hard enough you need to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and um
[00:52:03] and um for me one of the things i like to say is that i'm just one person and so instead of asking
[00:52:12] the question about why how it is that you made it out of poverty i want to ask a different question
[00:52:20] which is why having so many others and i think when we ask that question which is a different
[00:52:25] question we can really talk about the systems and institutions and structures that keep people
[00:52:31] trapped in a cycle of poverty yeah so as one of those democrats um i have been and continue to be an
[00:52:44] advocate for programs and like head start and all those other things uh but i'm with you i think
[00:52:53] the question becomes you know if we say and i'm just throwing this stat out here if 80 of all the
[00:53:02] kids that go through head start end up at least being accepted to college what's going on with the
[00:53:08] other 20 so that's that's always been kind of my mission as an elected official and i'm glad
[00:53:15] that somebody like you that's a lot smarter than me uh is working on that particular aspect of
[00:53:22] the problem and the thing that really kind of sparked me to ask that question to you because
[00:53:28] you tell the story about how you were at a symposium and you were supposed to give
[00:53:34] a certain answer and then you just blurted out your truth and it was like crickets in the room
[00:53:40] kind of kind of you know kind of explain what you were you kind of articulated in the book
[00:53:47] how you felt but looking back at it now how how is that shaped what you're trying to do
[00:53:55] so i think that in my work i try to be a truth teller i try to push the boundaries and say
[00:54:03] we need to think bigger um the solutions and strategies that we've tried haven't worked and to
[00:54:10] be honest about that and say okay well what can we do differently to get a different outcome
[00:54:16] we might have to take apart the whole system and rebuild it we might have to start in a different
[00:54:23] place and i think that that makes a lot of people especially um in the work that i do
[00:54:31] uncomfortable um because they have to expand and think differently about a problem or an issue
[00:54:38] it might require taking resources away from a program that isn't working or a strategy that
[00:54:45] isn't working and investing in a strategy that is different that hasn't been tried but may really
[00:54:52] change the game or you know we might really get closer to what we say we want um and from where
[00:55:00] i said i i feel a real urgency to really be thinking about these problems differently we
[00:55:08] understand the problem we know you know poverty has existed for more than a hundred years many
[00:55:14] of the issues we've talked about whether it's racism um you know women's rights these issues have
[00:55:20] existed for a long time so what might we need to change or do to get a different outcome
[00:55:28] all right in the obama administration women made 89 cents to every dollar men made
[00:55:35] in the trump administration women made 69 cents to every dollar men made one
[00:55:43] how should those facts impact the upcoming election and two how challenging is the issue of
[00:55:50] achieving gender pay equity when the white house doesn't doesn't even practice it
[00:55:58] well you know listen this election you know i'm going to do my part i think we're all
[00:56:06] going to do our part or hopefully people will show up to the polls and and vote and do their
[00:56:11] parts and um do their part um i
[00:56:18] eric i don't you know so um i i think this is crazy town um even we're you know the election
[00:56:27] as we see it between you know biden and donald trump is is kind of crazy town um because
[00:56:34] the choice for me is very clear what is pretty hard and difficult for me to swallow and sort of
[00:56:40] think about is that trump and biden are so close in the polls uh and it makes me wonder about
[00:56:58] how we could be here as a country where we are really literally fighting for our lives fighting for
[00:57:04] our democracy um it's very clear that um the rhetoric from trump is is sexist homophobic racist
[00:57:15] xenophobic uh and yet he's a real contender for the highest office of the land and one of the
[00:57:23] most powerful positions in the world i find that heartbreaking problematic and says a little
[00:57:31] bit about where we are and who we are as a country and the people collectively yeah but what about
[00:57:41] what about the gender pay the gender pay i know i just now you know you didn't caught me so
[00:57:49] when i think about the gender pay gap um it's a very insidious thing so gender the gender pay
[00:57:56] gap is only part of the the the issue um the gender page gap exists because women are not in
[00:58:05] positions of power women don't have access to rooms of power
[00:58:14] women are not making hiring decisions women are not making workplace policies or in positions
[00:58:18] of power whether it's in either administration so when i think about closing the pay gap the
[00:58:25] answer is not so simple but one of the things that we can do to accelerate the closing of the pay gap
[00:58:32] is one recognize that it exists because there's a lot of talk about whether or not it really exists
[00:58:39] but also really start to put women in positions of power so that they are in decision making roles
[00:58:49] so that we can really address many of these issues not only pay transparency but paid
[00:58:54] sick leave child care issues there's a lot of issues that get overlooked or or we don't pay attention to
[00:59:03] because women are not at the the decision making tables so i'm gonna i'm gonna play devil's advocate
[00:59:11] with you on that answer so um what we've been better off of was a race between
[00:59:17] Kamala Harris and and nicky hailey uh as far as dealing with women's issues and it being highlighted
[00:59:25] because i mean in mexico that's basically what happened the top two party uh candidates were
[00:59:32] females and they did address a lot of issues pertaining to women as it relates to that country
[00:59:39] uh would would women see a better outcome if if they were those two were the the nominees as opposed
[00:59:47] to two old white men well so that is a really great question um so i live for the day where
[00:59:57] there are two women running for president in the united states and so and we're having policy
[01:00:03] debates and really deciding between the candidates based on the issues uh and so that would be awesome
[01:00:10] to see um however if there's a woman who's running for president who in policy and thinking and her
[01:00:20] orientation is anti women's issues or lines up on in the same way on policies that a man might
[01:00:33] she might as well not be running it by opinion um and that's not any better so i live for the day that
[01:00:40] we do have two women on the the biggest ticket uh in this country um but you know i'm also cautious
[01:00:47] about what the wrong woman can do um and undo in terms of women's progress yeah and that's part
[01:00:54] of the issue that you know as african-americans we've had to deal with this here uh i think the
[01:01:01] phrase is like of my color but not my kind has been used a lot because we've we've seen african-american
[01:01:08] candidates fall under that category too so um but yeah yeah that's a whole other show anyway um
[01:01:17] define the word she's she's session so i during the pandemic um many economists were trying to
[01:01:28] figure out what was going on at the start of the pandemic and many of them were men trying to
[01:01:34] figure out what was happening with the economy and i because of my work and research was looking
[01:01:42] at the data and looking at the numbers and noticing and observing that women were being
[01:01:46] disproportionately impacted by job job and income losses and leaving the workforce at
[01:01:53] higher rates uh than men in 2008 men left the workforce in greater numbers and were disproportionately
[01:02:01] impacted and it led me to to coin the term she's session to describe the disproportionate impact
[01:02:09] of the economic downturn on women and one of the things i think it's really important to say is that
[01:02:16] if i hadn't done that if i hadn't really inserted women into our understanding of the economic
[01:02:23] downturn we would have been likely talking about the pandemic and the economic downturn
[01:02:29] in the same terms in the same way we're talking about it in 2008 and so it really made a difference
[01:02:36] um because of my backgrounds and my research being able to take a step back and really
[01:02:42] define and name what was happening for women and families and women of color specifically
[01:02:50] because they were disproportionately impacted even when we talk about you know women as a group
[01:03:00] yeah i think that's very important it it was one of the things i wanted to mention
[01:03:06] to mention when i was a legislator i remember i was i was introducing bills to deal with
[01:03:14] gender pay equity well i'll get to that later um i want to talk to you
[01:03:21] about intersectionality and why is important in the discussion of improving the lives of
[01:03:28] women in america so you know fortunately i was able to work with some really great
[01:03:38] scholars at the beginning of my career um who helped to define intersectionality and introduce it
[01:03:47] and so i felt very fortunate and it's been actually the way that i have done my research
[01:03:53] because i really think that when you're talking about a social issue whether it's um racism
[01:04:02] women's issues reproductive health and rights if you are not thinking about the ways it's
[01:04:08] impacting different groups of women and different people then you're missing a piece of the puzzle
[01:04:15] so for example if you're going to be talking about police brutality and racism if you
[01:04:23] leave out the fact that women are a part of that conversation around poli over policing and police
[01:04:31] brutality um then we're when you come up with a solution you're not going to really come up
[01:04:39] with a solution that um is going to get to the most of most of the people who are impacted by an
[01:04:46] issue um or a strategy and so intersectionality for me is where we should start the conversation
[01:04:55] when we're thinking about any kinds of issues and for people who don't know what intersectionality
[01:05:00] is it is really looking at the impact of race class gender sexuality religion on
[01:05:10] the impact on people's lives so how do all those things intersect to inform my experience with a system
[01:05:18] um you know in anything so i'm sorry i'm trying to i'm trying to explain it in a very simple
[01:05:27] non-academic way um but for me i live at the intersections as a as a woman of color and so
[01:05:34] color and so when i'm thinking about an issue i that's the lens that i lead with because i can't
[01:05:41] separate out my race from my gender from my class all those things are operating at the same time
[01:05:48] i'll give you another example this is what makes intersectionality easy i had to put back on my
[01:05:54] intersectionality yet so if you are at night walking in an alley and you and someone's approaching you
[01:06:06] when you see them you take everything in you take in their race you take in their gender
[01:06:13] you take in both those things at the same time and you make a decision about what you're
[01:06:18] going to do in that alley in that moment and that's what intersectionality is it's taking all those
[01:06:24] things into account at the same time and not just thinking about or considering one thing because
[01:06:31] when you look at just one thing you might not be seeing the whole picture or you know of an issue
[01:06:40] how can the current fight for reproductive rights help women overall
[01:06:49] well so one of the things i'd like in terms of the the current framing around reproductive
[01:06:55] rights and justice is that it really is about democracy it really is about power and it really
[01:07:02] is about control and so when i think about the reproductive rights and democracy we all know
[01:07:11] that anybody everybody should have freedom and control over their own bodies and that's guaranteed
[01:07:19] in the constitution full stop and so when women lack reproductive health and rights and autonomy
[01:07:29] they have less control over their bodies when they start a family the reproductive care and so
[01:07:36] we need to make sure and ensure that women those rights and that bodily autonomy and integrity
[01:07:42] rest with women full stop i think one of the issues is that people believe that women's rights
[01:07:53] because we understand them as issues like debating the budget and or the defense
[01:08:01] budget everybody has a say but in fact everyone should not have a say this is not the budget this
[01:08:07] is not defense spending uh but that's how we treat women's rights and reproductive health that
[01:08:13] everybody should have a say even people who don't have a uterus or a womb uh and so really
[01:08:21] trying to reframe or talk about reproductive justice and rights as a right that women have
[01:08:30] that's not up for debate uh because you know we are bearers of rights under the law and you worked
[01:08:39] at ACLU so you know the constitution and what i'm talking about um how can the power and influence
[01:08:50] of american women be further expanded so this is what i've been up to uh and thinking about um
[01:09:01] you know future for women so one of the things that i've been doing is thinking about where and
[01:09:08] how women have power and influence and looking across the states uh and trying to understand
[01:09:15] and measure women's power and influence and in just that short period of time what i've over the last
[01:09:22] couple of months what i found is that states where women have less power and influence are states
[01:09:27] where women earn the less have less educational attainment um are less politically active and
[01:09:35] they don't have family or women's supported policies so those bottom states probably won't
[01:09:43] surprise you but that's alabama mississippi arkansas north carolina south carolina in texas
[01:09:49] they're in the news especially texas um um for really having regressive policies around reproductive
[01:09:58] health and some other things and then when we look at the top five states where women have
[01:10:02] power and influence mariland new york colorado california and oregon those are states that
[01:10:09] are expansive for women women have high levels of educational attainment they're involved politically
[01:10:15] the policies the public policies in those states are also really very expansive and support women
[01:10:21] and support families so there's a real direct contrast in states where um you know policies
[01:10:28] are hostile to women and states where they are supportive um and women are in power actually
[01:10:34] in those states as well where we see really positive outcomes for women yeah and um i i definitely
[01:10:44] definitely understand that correlation although one of those states alabama you mentioned but then
[01:10:50] that goes back to her early answer that you gave you know they have a female governor but
[01:10:55] like you said if your ideology is based on repressing or suppressing women's rights then
[01:11:05] you're no different than a man right so you know i but but i agree that you know the correlation
[01:11:13] that the more power that you give or more women you put in power the more issues can be addressed
[01:11:22] in in in that true intersectional sense right um so this is where i was going when i started
[01:11:32] talking about my experience as a legislator with gender pay um you know i introduced the
[01:11:42] bill almost basically every year for mississippi to do that and then you know we didn't get it done
[01:11:50] in mississippi but at the national level there was the lead better bill that said okay well you know
[01:11:57] it's the law of the land that women should be paid as much as men for the same amount of work
[01:12:04] yet i don't really see that happening i don't really see i don't know if the law had any
[01:12:10] enforcement in there so the last question i'm trying to ask you is name some public policies
[01:12:17] you would like to see enacted to improve the lives of women in america but i guess the the additional
[01:12:23] caveat is we can pass these laws but how can we enforce them you understand what i'm saying it's
[01:12:32] like it's one thing to say okay we've got it on the books women should be paid as much as men
[01:12:38] but if there's no teeth to the legislation so in asking you a question what policies
[01:12:47] how do we make sure that whatever is on your wish list gets done right so i want to say that
[01:12:55] i've done a lot of work and and research in mississippi um and um that's a hard state to do
[01:13:05] work in and work that is so um hats off to you um and it's also very disheartening because
[01:13:17] you know when you're in a state like mississippi or alabama and i've done work in alabama as well
[01:13:25] you're trying to do the right thing you are working on the behalf of at the time i was working
[01:13:31] on you know with um rural black women and their families and you just see what the opposition
[01:13:40] what they're up against so you can have policies on the books but you have a political culture
[01:13:47] that is racist that sexist that is not is is calcified calcified as the right and it feels
[01:13:58] impenetrable and unmovable and that's the truth in a lot of um states and state
[01:14:07] legislative like mississippi alabama um north carolina um so personally i think that accountability
[01:14:19] giving teeth to these laws are what needs to happen people have to
[01:14:25] be forced to comply and there needs to be consequences when there is not there is no
[01:14:32] compliance um because through the in history people have always responded to change whether it's
[01:14:42] civil rights women's rights with renegotiation refusal um or violence and so how do we answer that
[01:14:53] when we are trying to move the country towards progress i think we don't in addition to the policies
[01:15:03] we need stronger enforcement mechanisms and accountability and i think with a lot of these
[01:15:10] laws we just don't have it especially so if you're in a an account excuse me a state like
[01:15:16] mississippi and you have something like the lily led better act that federal law depends on
[01:15:24] the states implementing enforcing and picking it up and if you have a state that is hostile to said
[01:15:31] law it's going to take a little bit more than the law to implement it and um and that's the
[01:15:40] same issue around the eoc laws or civil rights laws um you know there's a harder we have a hard
[01:15:49] time enforcing it uh and so i think enforcement uh thinking about how we enforce um these policies
[01:15:59] and laws are our key and holding people accountable when they don't and which i think is hard
[01:16:06] like mississippi i've seen it you know firsthand i understand and like i said i did it for nine years
[01:16:13] in the state legislature so i appreciate you coming down and trying to um but give me one
[01:16:20] particular policy as we close out that you would like to see implemented at the federal and state
[01:16:27] level so i personally i mean you know i would like to see universal free child care from birth
[01:16:35] to five um i think that would change the lives for of families uh women um it would do a lot for
[01:16:45] women's power and influence um and it shouldn't be means tested anybody who needs child care
[01:16:52] should be able to access it just like we have a public education system we need to see child
[01:16:57] care as a public good that anyone can access um so that's my children i know you know they're 14
[01:17:06] they're teenagers now but i can tell you that was even i had to off-ramp work uh and and
[01:17:13] refigure my work life because of the the the the cost of care um which for many families can
[01:17:20] consume up to 30 of their income or more all right dr mason um how can people get in touch with you
[01:17:30] how can people reach out to uh organizations that you work with and just really get in
[01:17:38] touch with you to try to tap that brain of yours so you can reach me on all social at
[01:17:45] scenicall mason um and um my new website is should be launched hopefully this week
[01:17:54] it's iamscenicallmason.com and you can reach me on linkedin at scenicall mason um
[01:18:01] substack you can also subscribe to my my new news that are called the perfect ten where i
[01:18:07] discuss the the top 10 issues bubbling up in the lives of women um and it's pretty fun
[01:18:14] and yeah those are the ways you can connect with me
[01:18:24] well dr scenicall mason i appreciate you coming on again it's been an honor to to have this
[01:18:31] discussing with you if y'all want to know what the c is y'all got about a book born bright
[01:18:36] if you want to know what the c means um but uh again i just want to thank you for coming on and
[01:18:44] keep doing what you're doing we really really need it thank you so much eric for for having me on your
[01:18:51] show all right guys and we're going to catch y'all on the other side
[01:19:06] all right and we are back so uh the close is out i want to thank
[01:19:20] evalyn and and dr mason for coming on and sharing their stories um and
[01:19:32] and hopefully y'all are encouraged by
[01:19:41] their stories and and you know encourage in the sense that maybe you you you all might be
[01:19:50] motivated or encourage in the sense that we know that there are some people out there doing the
[01:19:56] work regardless of the times we're in and the challenges that they individually may have faced right
[01:20:07] and i think that's crucial for us to understand because a couple of the news stories that grace
[01:20:13] touched on uh dealing with the sister in texas crystal mason
[01:20:20] who spent time in jail for exercising her right to vote and was punished
[01:20:31] as if she had committed you know a more serious crime
[01:20:39] and that whole deal in south carolina where the court said that district those that map is not
[01:20:48] not favorable to black folks but because the supreme court the u.s supreme court has drug
[01:20:55] defeat on making a decision they basically don't have to run in those unfair districts
[01:21:03] and that has a major implication because one of those the the district that's in question
[01:21:08] is the district that nancy mace
[01:21:10] represents so
[01:21:17] you know it's not easy out here we we know that uh but we still gotta keep pressing these folks
[01:21:27] are gonna do any and everything they have made it very very abundantly clear that they're gonna
[01:21:33] do any and everything to maintain their power and to make it hard on people who don't look like them
[01:21:44] who don't think like them and want to see our country go forward instead of regressing backwards
[01:21:54] they're gonna do everything use every trick in the book so we have to be vigilant and so
[01:22:01] that's why i do my podcast that's why i have guests on this podcast to remind us that there are people
[01:22:08] out there doing the work regardless of what they're trying to do and the longer that we
[01:22:14] stay vigilant the longer we stay active the longer we stay committed i just believe in chinese
[01:22:21] water torture they're gonna wear them and we're gonna be victorious even if it's just them
[01:22:29] changing their ways we win and i don't plan on losing this fight
[01:22:39] and i know a lot of times we talk about in leadership well if you lay the foundation
[01:22:45] to change you know will eventually come but i'm determined to make sure that this happens
[01:22:52] while i'm still alive because we've had too many leaders and too many people doing the work for all
[01:23:01] these years and this thing keeps rearing its ugly head you know i can see the light at the end of
[01:23:12] the tunnel i can see the finish line and so i want to finish this race in my lifetime
[01:23:20] i may not be the voice i may not be the leader
[01:23:25] but i'm determined to see
[01:23:30] and so
[01:23:33] with that ladies and gentlemen thank you all for listening to the podcast until next time
[01:23:49] you