[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
[00:00:07] I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast. If you like what you're hearing,
[00:00:11] I need you to do a few things. First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com
[00:00:17] slash A Moment with Eric Fleming. I am your immediately placed in custody. The Republican controlled house in their
[00:03:00] second attempt impeached Homeland Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas over President Joe Biden's handling of classified documents Enid with no charges. Donald Trump won Republican presidential nominating caucuses in Nevada and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was admitted to a critical care unit for an emergent bladder issue and temporarily
[00:04:20] transferred his duties to Deputy Secretary Kathleen Hicks. record of 3.263 trillion miles surpassing pre-COVID-19 levels. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been A Moment of News. All right.
[00:05:40] So you noticed that that moment of news was not done by Grace Gee,
[00:05:46] it was done by me. Teaching is a renegade economist. Areas of her livelihood garden include supporting individuals as a right livelihood coach, helping transition businesses and organizations as a post-capitalist consultant, teaching and facilitating courses and retreats on the work that reconnects, and regenerative economics,
[00:07:04] and hosting the Upstream Podcast which challenges mainstream economic thinking through document Permaculture and Gaia education. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to that's related to the work they're doing or whatever. So your quote is, in America, we debate everything except capitalism. If there's an institution in your society that's above criticism, you're giving it a free pass to indulge all of its weaknesses and darker tendencies. So what does that quote mean to you?
[00:10:45] health and prosperity in the more holistic sense and a better connection with the living planet.
[00:10:50] So what is a renegade economist?
[00:10:57] So I call myself a renegade economist and I want to honor that I got that term from
[00:12:23] a fellow renegade economist, Kate Rayworth. She was is that growth is good, growth of individual wealth, growth of GDP, growth domestic product, and growth of profit for our business. That not only is that good, but that ought to be the goal what is focused on, and also that endless growth or limitless growth is possible on our planet. And so those are go upstream is to take a societal problem and to go upstream to the root causes. So we were told this metaphor to show why it's not just important to support survivors of sexual violence political or community activism came from the vagina monologues I just wanted to point that out. Yeah and it seems to
[00:15:02] be put to turn out some really positive production. So the way that they did this, this processes of primitive accumulation, included slavery, land theft of indigenous peoples, colonization, and destruction of the environment. And for those processes to happen,
[00:16:21] there needed to be a dehumanization of people of color,
[00:16:25] people of color, and people of the global south. it. And it basically, the bottom line was the flow chart connected supremacy and capitalism. It was says, let us change the goal of the economy. Let us change it from growth, so growth of
[00:19:01] gross domestic product, growth of business, profit, or growth of wealth. Let us change that goal systems that are that your economy and that your society is embedded in. How are they doing? How is the biodiversity loss? How is the ocean acidification? How is the change in land use? How is carbon emissions? These are called the planetary tipping points. And so the idea of the donut is how can we
[00:20:20] get our economy to meet all of the humanth century to really push for controlling population growth in order to have a more sustainable society and planet
[00:21:45] as a whole. Pat equation. So it's I equals P times A times T. I is human impact on the planet equals P population times A affluence and times T. Okay. So our population size are affluence, which is like how much wealth and how much stuff and how much just you know, it's urban sprawl as opposed to whatever It's just it's great and I guess you can say sprawl is part of that too, but You know, I hear people
[00:24:22] An economist always talk about you know, well, you know if there was this government policy and
[00:25:25] union is supposed to be the model of communism, but it was about greed. And in that case, it was about accumulation of power as opposed to accumulation of wealth, right? So that,
[00:25:33] you know, but that's just me. Am I off base and how I think about that?
[00:25:39] No, relatedly, there is one of the most inspiring or hopeful graphs in economics that I know of
[00:26:43] is a point where more money doesn't equal more happiness. There is a point of enoughness. So just it illustrates your point beautifully about really greed,
[00:26:48] you know, taking more than our fair share, taking more than we need, taxing our
[00:26:53] environment, exploiting others to get that material wealth. That is the challenge.
[00:26:59] So I guess this ties into this question, which I love because what it says is that Buddhism isn't just about mindfulness, right?
[00:28:25] That stereotypical sitting on a cushion,
[00:29:25] sometimes the form and structure of our work can be non-democratic, can be not transparent, can be harmful or exploitative, right? Or it could be cooperative and collaborative and regenerative
[00:29:32] in the structure or the form of our work. And then there's also our attitude towards our work. So
[00:29:37] some folks may know, there may be times when you have a job that on paper looks like a great job,
[00:29:42] but you just really don't like it, right? That's about people are saying, hey, things are happening, but there's politically, ecologically, socially, and I want to contribute. Like, I want to make a difference. And so how could I better align what I care about and the work I want to do in the world with my work? And just to say, though, right livelihood can also feel like a privilege because it can,
[00:31:00] for some people listening, they may think that's great, I think ethical capitalism, green capitalism is, is an oxymoron or like attention that it doesn't exist. So I would actually change the economy. So how would I create or what policy would I offer to create an economy that
[00:32:20] is more truly regenerative and just and democratic bring in the Solidarity economy and cooperative economy new economy next system feminist economy All those bring in their practices their principles their theories Their models to get us within the donut wherever you are in the world wherever that policy is enacted
[00:33:42] if people want to get in touch with you if people want to reach out to you and find out more about
[00:34:42] co-host, which is the upstream podcast. So those are some ways that you can get in touch with me.
[00:34:44] And I'd love to hear from folks.
[00:34:46] All right.
[00:34:47] Well, Della Duncan, I greatly appreciate you coming on
[00:34:51] the podcast.
[00:34:53] I hope that my listeners' minds have been opened
[00:34:57] a little bit about some things.
[00:35:00] And I appreciate the work that you're doing as far as
[00:36:03] quality and the feminist fight for freedom was published in September 23, 2023 by public affairs. And this is the book
[00:36:10] we're going to be talking about. So ladies and gentlemen, it is
[00:36:13] my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this
[00:36:16] podcast, Miss Marci be hunko. you know, giving time, valuable time in your life to read the book. Yeah, well, it's it's it's it's heady as you put it, but it's it's an easy read. Thank you structure, the same system that, you know, to quote Ijoma Al labor force, social, like how we treat each other in the societal discrimination,
[00:40:23] whether it's racism or misogyny, right? So this past year, I mean,
[00:41:41] they are invoking this myth of colorblindness
[00:41:45] that we're all created equal under God's eyes, right? very manifesto like I'm going to impart that vigor and that tone because in a way it's challenging readers who or potential readers who might just toss the book aside and say well I'm not reading this garbage because she's an angry feminist and I actually wanted to claim that identity head on
[00:43:00] and say I'm this type of person. The irony some ways too when I think about it, one of the things, I was trying to doarchy shaped the idea of equality? I hope I said all that right. That's a lot. it shapes a quality because a quality is something that is an artifice. It is an application. It's not organic, right? Like I mean you know tell me if I'm wrong but I
[00:47:01] don't think anybody wakes up in the morning saying you know what I feel equal today. There's not a within these systems. You know, it's like I use the metaphor of play dough. If you squeeze an ideal through the play dough mold of white supremacistist hetero patriarchy, that equality, right? Whether it's a law, whether it's a policy, is going to come out the other side looking like that. And that is the profound difference.
[00:48:22] That that bold, how it shapes equality,
[00:48:25] how equality is enacted,
[00:49:27] it very well. And, you know, you know, the question about we wake up, you know, I don't wake up being equal, I wake up thinking I'm exceptional, right? You know, I think that
[00:49:31] I'm unique and all that. So that strengthens the point that you're saying, we don't, we
[00:49:36] don't wake up thinking that, Oh, God, Iness. I feel like individualism, right? That I am out there for myself,
[00:51:00] and that my actions do not impact anyone else.
[00:51:03] You know, this could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue. No one would care, right? This idea of living in a vacuum or a silo, that is not freedom. But yet there's been this conservative stranglehold in our imagining, right?
[00:52:22] And the idea of what freedom is.
[00:52:24] And part of what I'm doing in this book. Well, you know, that reminds me of two things. One, the general theme of your answer, which is that somebody once said, and I'm paraphrasing, either we can live together as brothers and sisters, or we can perish as fools to learning. And I think given precedent, right? Like I don't believe that the notion of light freedom was always all consuming and was so ubiquitous.
[00:55:01] That it's something that has been reinforced over
[00:55:05] and over again to create the social through conditioning And depending on my friend's own experience, their own expertise, like I had several friends of mine, black scholars be like, I know this, this book is not for me. And I was, you know, it made me think like, oh, you're right. I know, like, you're absolutely right because you know this. Like it was a real wake up moment for me because it made me think like, who was the audience
[00:56:22] that will be, you know, like order to be free. That's not freedom. Nobody feels free when they see someone walking down the street with a gun. Right? There's the opposite feeling of freedom when you see that. But that kind of mindset, that's the that's white
[00:57:41] freedom. And we need to challenge that. And in my domain,
[00:57:44] again, I'm trying to work with language and ideas.
[00:58:43] used in tandem with sameness.
[00:58:48] But in particular, we see fairness use when people want to end a affirmative action
[00:58:52] and when people want to prevent trans folks
[00:58:56] from participating in sports.
[00:58:59] And I always wonder what sense of fairness,
[00:59:03] like what is fairness based off, right? about how we can actually practice freedom. And what was really important to me was, you know, a lot of people when they talk about feminism, they have a hard time understanding how it applies to their daily lives. Again, because if you think about it in terms of equality, we have to wait for,
[01:00:22] you know, the white men in power to give it to us.
[01:00:24] Or, you know, so it's like. This is Simone de Beauvoir, right? No one is born equal, our freedoms are situated. You know, when we're born, where we're born, who, you know, who we're born to, in what society we're born into, right? Like we have situated freedom. In order for the limitations of our freedom
[01:01:42] to be surpassed, we need other people.
[01:01:45] And I say in the book that happens
[01:01:46] from the moment that we're born, amplifying what freedom is, truly, as opposed to the white freedom that dominates our society. And I provide my own definition of a freedom at that moment, right? Freedom is a lifelong practice. It never ends. A self-creation based on accountability and care that endeavors to build a more free
[01:03:00] and just world. So accountability and care are crucial, crucial, crucial, crucial. Like,
[01:04:04] we treat people, how we decide individually, but also think about our organizations that we work in. Like, how do we spend our money? Especially,
[01:04:08] you know, capitalism was a bugbear, Hermit in this book, you know, but it's
[01:04:14] like, it's really important to think about how you spend your money and how
[01:04:20] that reflects your values. And that could gosh, I like to say you can get this book anywhere that amazing books I saw. Um, I also just have a website that I need to update more than I do, marcideonco.com. Um, I'm sometimes on Twitter, but have refrained from really doing a lot of deep engagement with it, but I'm linked in also.
[01:05:44] I've been using that.
[01:05:45] That's actually how you and I connected, right?
[01:05:48] That was a great read for me and I hope that it's a great read for others. So again, thank you for coming on. Thank you so much, Eric. This was great. All right, guys, Field Team 6 with a simple mission, Register Democrats Save the World. By bringing his proudly partisan voter registration to Swing States nationwide, Field Team 6 helped register 785,000 Democratic voters in 2020
[01:12:20] and brought that total to 2.5 million in is the work that field team six and some similar groups do is essential to increasing participation and strengthening our year since Trump got elected. That's what Stacey Abrams did. And I feel like in fact, we should be doing everything we can to end voter suppression via the courts, via organizing, legisl elected. I was always a political junkie before them, but when Trump was elected, it did break my heart and mind. I know I'm not alone in that. Thank God for that.
[01:12:21] It kind of did that to, I did, it felt like the only place I could actually be sane. And I was totally moved by being around people who are taking the precious hours of their lives to try to fix this beautiful democracy that needs fixing.
[01:13:40] And so I just realized I needed to be in lots more rooms like that.
[01:13:46] That was the start. registered Democrats save the world so that we could go national, see what kind of good trouble we could get into in battleground states and districts nationwide. We're just a few votes, make the difference, and so that there could be an organization where we do partisan voter registration all year, every year, a place where institutional
[01:15:03] knowledge can accumulate and we can refine our techniques over time and we can be transparent And my job was to connect all the other blue dots and see if we could pull this thing off. And social media was still kind of in its infancy at that point. And a lot of people started saying, well, yeah, I'm a blue dot. I'm a blue dot. And the Bill Momentum, and then two years later,
[01:16:21] when I ran again, you really saw that effort,
[01:16:24] especially with Obama being on the ticket as well. registration group that goes behind enemy lines in these purple districts and does the impossible by you know finding good harder people who want to register as Democrats or as progressive independents so you kind of you kind of feels though your work is like the democracy special forces
[01:17:47] Absolutely, that's a great that's a great phrase. Can I steal that? Yeah defend their abortion rights. They need a college that's more affordable. They need healthcare access. They need there to be less gun violence. You know, they don't like having grown up, having to do active shooter drills in their schools.
[01:19:00] The climate, you know, it's a...
[01:19:05] there are all these giant issues that affect them directly. So it's answer your question. Apathy is the greatest enemy. That's why when we register people, and it is all about connection. We're talking about connection. All activism is making connections. It's talking to strangers, and it turns out that's how you change the world. So when we talk to strangers, whether it's
[01:20:22] in person on a college campus, or in a text,
[01:20:25] or a postcard, or information person, people are very attuned to whether you're judging them or not.
[01:21:41] You know, so the first thousand times, you know, a young, pleasant, positive conversation about politics with no yelling or hostility. Yeah, and that's very important. The education piece is important. I just remember when I first ran for the legislature, since it was a special election,
[01:23:00] we had to do it by petition.
[01:23:02] And I literally had people ask, you know, what does a job do and all that. has been with it was dealing with the suffrage laws, right? So in my case it was dealing with people who had been formally incarcerated and getting them to vote. In Mississippi we have like eight constitutional charges that takes away your right to vote. And the attorney general
[01:24:24] who was a Democrat by the way when somebody asked them registered He said well, you know, I've been to jail. Did you go to jail on a drug charge? No Okay, so I need you to fill this form out blah blah if they were arrested on a drug charge in state of Mississippi Ironically, they'd never lose their right to vote They don't know that and but you have to educate him. So I was wondering had you run into I
[01:25:44] Mean I've run into the opposite thing a lot really moving in Arizona. Tons of people we speak to in person voter drives say, ah, can't vote, I'm feeling. And it's up to us to let them know that in Arizona, and of course these laws vary maddeningly from state to state. No two states are the same. Part of why we need so need some good federal voting rights
[01:27:05] legislation, the John, you know, that constitution was written in 1890, that was the first constitution after Reconstruction. And so basically they tried to pick eight felonies
[01:28:20] that they thought black people did,
[01:28:23] to make sure that,
[01:28:25] because one of the charges is big of me,
[01:28:27] if you marry more than one wife, and happening. And so you had mentioned Stacy Abrams, the one that thinks that she did, was not only to make sure that they registered people to vote, but it was like, you know, they were sending text messages and because I had moved into the state, you know, in 2017, so I fell into that new voter category. So, you know, anytime there was a election,
[01:29:43] they was like, hey, you know, even if they didn't register you like other, you know, other campaigns or whatever do to track it. So the answer is yes, absolutely. We do not only registered new voters, but track whether they vote. And so to answer this fully, I want to tell you about the database that
[01:31:02] field team six has built, which is unique in the country.
[01:32:04] So we use that database as the basis for all our digital outreach. That is via postcard text, email, phone call.
[01:32:10] It's all through that database.
[01:32:12] Which means that after we register people, we can check that database against the updated
[01:32:18] voter rolls after an election and see who who secured Democratic control of the Senate. So yes really making a difference. Yeah and that's that's just the last half. I want to, it's like no one has had a talk,
[01:35:02] the talk with the party about where a Democrat comes from.
[01:35:05] You know? down to a dollar. It's actually a little less, but a dollar for every blue and purple voter that we register. That is the best bargain in activism. It's the best value proposition there is. We do this super effectively. We have only three paid people on staff, including myself.
[01:36:22] We have over 100 people on our volunteer staff, immensely qualified, dedicated people, almost It's pretty well known that I'm a Democrat. So I'm gonna say this, you're doing God's work. And I greatly appreciate what you're doing. And not just from a partisan sense, but from a holistic sense of building our democracy and building credibility back in our democracy
[01:37:41] by getting people engaged.
[01:37:43] I think the only way we're gonna catch y'all on the other side.
[01:39:07] Alright, and we are back. So I just want to thank my guests for coming on.