In this episode, Lewis Williams, Founder of Williams Creative Group, stresses the importance of messaging in politics; Ashley T. Martin, CEO of Lustitia Aequalis, talks about her new project that merges technology with justice; and Darius Jones, Founder of the National Black Empowerment Council, explains the importance of coalition in turbulent times.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 make this moment a movement.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:10 Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:01:20 --> 00:01:55 Music.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 Hello, and welcome to Another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:08 And today we got a jam-packed show. I have three guests, two men and a lady.
00:02:09 --> 00:02:17 Who are going to talk about the world that we live in and kind of highlight
00:02:17 --> 00:02:19 their expertise, Right.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:28 So one guest has been a ad executive, very successful ad executive.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:32 And so I kind of wanted to pick his brain about messaging.
00:02:33 --> 00:02:42 And then one guest has been active in equality and justice through the nonprofit sector.
00:02:42 --> 00:02:46 And she has a new project that I wanted to highlight.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:56 And then the final guest was a blessing to get on, discuss about some unsettling
00:02:56 --> 00:03:00 stuff that is going on right now in the country.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 And based on his background and expertise,
00:03:04 --> 00:03:12 he is probably the perfect person to address our community with a perspective
00:03:12 --> 00:03:17 about what's happening and give us some encouragement. along the way.
00:03:17 --> 00:03:27 So I hope that when you hear these guests, that you will receive them the way that I received them.
00:03:28 --> 00:03:32 And I hope that it is enlightening as well as entertaining for you.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:37 Because entertainment doesn't have to be ha-ha, funny-funny,
00:03:37 --> 00:03:40 sing a song, make a dance. I mean.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:45 Maybe I'm a nerd, or as we like to say now in the Black community,
00:03:45 --> 00:03:48 a blerd, but I think intelligence is entertaining.
00:03:49 --> 00:03:56 I think having people who are dedicated and committed to fighting for us and
00:03:56 --> 00:04:03 are articulate, that's hard to say, actually,
00:04:04 --> 00:04:08 in expressing that is very entertaining.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:15 So I hope that you enjoy the show. And then, of course, I've got my say-so about
00:04:15 --> 00:04:17 a couple of things to kind of close it out.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 But anyway, let's go ahead and get this show started.
00:04:20 --> 00:04:27 Oh, before I do that, guys, we need 20 subscribers.
00:04:27 --> 00:04:30 Again, I'm going to bug y'all until we get there.
00:04:30 --> 00:04:34 And it's, you know, I mean, I'm not mad or anything. I just,
00:04:35 --> 00:04:40 you know, we need to do that because there's some things I want to do,
00:04:40 --> 00:04:42 as I've expressed before.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:47 And, you know, I don't want to get people's hopes up and then we don't have
00:04:47 --> 00:04:48 the resources to make it happen.
00:04:48 --> 00:04:52 So let's get those resources. Let's get those subscribers.
00:04:53 --> 00:04:57 You can go to Patreon.com slash amomentwitherikfleming and make that happen.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:02 OK, now that I've made my plug, it is time to kick this off.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:07 And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:13 Music.
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 Thanks, Erik. Newark Mayor Ras Baraka sued law enforcement officials after
00:05:19 --> 00:05:24 being wrongly arrested at a detention center, claiming the arrest was politically
00:05:24 --> 00:05:26 motivated by the Trump administration.
00:05:26 --> 00:05:31 Eight people were injured in Boulder, Colorado, when a man threw incendiary
00:05:31 --> 00:05:36 devices into a crowd during a demonstration related to the Israeli hostages in Gaza.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:41 President Trump issued a travel ban targeting citizens from 12 countries,
00:05:41 --> 00:05:42 citing security concerns.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:47 The U.S. Supreme Court allowed the Trump administration to revoke temporary
00:05:47 --> 00:05:53 legal status for hundreds of migrants from Venezuela, Cuba, Haiti, and Nicaragua.
00:05:53 --> 00:05:59 Tulsa's mayor announced a $100 million trust to address the impacts of the 1921
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 massacre of African Americans.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:07 Elon Musk publicly criticized the recent congressional tax and spending bill,
00:06:07 --> 00:06:12 which extends Trump-era tax cuts, calling it a disgusting abomination that will
00:06:12 --> 00:06:13 worsen the federal deficit.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:19 A federal appeals court upheld a block on Trump's executive order to dismantle
00:06:19 --> 00:06:25 the Education Department and required a reinstatement of laid-off employees. A D.C.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 Judge dismissed Democrats' lawsuit over Trump's executive order asserting control
00:06:30 --> 00:06:35 of federal agencies, ruling no imminent harm existed. A U.S.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:39 Judge halted the Trump administration's abrupt closure of the Job Corps program,
00:06:39 --> 00:06:43 siding with contractors in a lawsuit alleging legal violations.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:50 Flooding in Nigeria's Niger state has resulted in 200 deaths and the displacement
00:06:50 --> 00:06:51 of thousands of residents.
00:06:51 --> 00:06:56 The Department of Homeland Security removed a list of sanctuary jurisdictions
00:06:56 --> 00:07:00 from its website after criticisms from the National Sheriff's Association.
00:07:01 --> 00:07:07 Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico have reached 823, which constitutes 75%
00:07:07 --> 00:07:09 of all the cases nationwide.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:16 And World War II veteran Anna Mae Robertson, the last surviving member of the
00:07:16 --> 00:07:22 all-black, all-female 6888 Battalion, passed away at the age of 101.
00:07:23 --> 00:07:27 I am Grace Gee, and this has been A Moment of News.
00:07:27 --> 00:07:32 Music.
00:07:34 --> 00:07:38 All right, thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it's time for
00:07:38 --> 00:07:42 our guest, Lewis Williams.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:48 Experienced creative Lewis Williams has had successful careers at iconic agencies,
00:07:49 --> 00:07:53 Leo Burnett, Burrell Communications Group, and most recently,
00:07:54 --> 00:07:59 Weber Shanwick, where he held the position of EVP Head of Brand Impact.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:06 Having over three decades of total market and multicultural consumer marketing experience,
00:08:06 --> 00:08:12 he's partnered with CMOs of some of the world's best-known brands to create
00:08:12 --> 00:08:19 award-winning creative and drive strategic and emotional connections to their customers.
00:08:20 --> 00:08:25 Lewis has deep experience working in automotive, food service,
00:08:25 --> 00:08:30 beverage, technology, financial, entertainment, and consumer goods.
00:08:30 --> 00:08:35 Among those that he has represented are Toyota, McDonald's, Ancestry,
00:08:36 --> 00:08:39 the Coca-Cola Company, Google, the U.S.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:46 Army, Walt Disney World, American Airlines, Disney, and Procter & Gamble.
00:08:46 --> 00:08:52 Lewis has been recognized as one of Adweek's Creative 100, the ad club of New
00:08:52 --> 00:08:56 York's icons, rock stars and innovators.
00:08:56 --> 00:09:01 Winner of creative accolades from The One Show, Communications Arts,
00:09:01 --> 00:09:05 London International Awards, Kelly Awards, New York Festivals,
00:09:06 --> 00:09:11 Silo Awards, and serves on the Creative Review Committee for the Ad Council.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:19 He previously served as a PR cons juror and was a juror member of ConsLion70.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:24 He was also selected as an inaugural fellow for the Visiting Industry Professionals
00:09:24 --> 00:09:28 Fellowship at DePaul University College of Communications.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:34 Lewis is an advocate for significant representation for diversity for creatives
00:09:34 --> 00:09:36 in the communications industry.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:42 As part of his commitment to diversity and mentorship, he is an instructor for
00:09:42 --> 00:09:47 the One School for African-American Students sponsored by the One Club for Creativity.
00:09:48 --> 00:09:52 Lewis is a distinguished alumnus of the Kent State School of Design,
00:09:52 --> 00:09:57 where he established the Lewis and Donna Williams Scholarship Fund.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:01 The funds are dedicated to those students needing financial assistance.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:06 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 on this podcast, Lewis Williams.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:19 Music.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:24 All right. Lewis Williams. How you doing, sir? You doing good?
00:10:24 --> 00:10:29 Erik, I'm doing fantastic, sir. How are you? I'm doing fine, brother.
00:10:29 --> 00:10:33 I greatly appreciate you taking the time.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:40 I saw you on a documentary talking about the history of advertising in America
00:10:40 --> 00:10:43 and how Chicago played a major influence.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 And you were one of the people that was highlighted in that documentary.
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 And I said, I got to get this brother on because I need to pick his brain about
00:10:50 --> 00:10:54 some things, especially in the political world.
00:10:54 --> 00:10:58 But you'll you'll understand where I'm going with that once we get the interview going.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:05 So one of the things I like to do is start off the interview with some icebreakers.
00:11:06 --> 00:11:10 So the first icebreaker is a quote. So I want you to respond to this quote.
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 There is no better story than life itself.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:15 What does that quote mean to you?
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 Oh, wow. You know, that's an author. Oh, I think that was me.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 You know, what that means to me is like in this world of advertising,
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 we all look for ideas, right?
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 And we all heard authenticity, authenticity, right?
00:11:31 --> 00:11:36 And so often we try to find these things don't exist.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 But when you think about how many billions and billions of people there are
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 in this planet, that's billions and billions of stories.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:50 So if you're looking to the answer of anything, it has just look at life and it'll tell you that.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:53 Our life and our experiences, even your own life.
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 So often advertising where you're looking for ideas is like maybe the idea is
00:11:57 --> 00:12:03 from your family meeting every Thanksgiving and the stories around that table.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:08 It could be from your brother and your partner at the barbershop and what those conversations.
00:12:08 --> 00:12:15 Just look at life. Life has all the answers. So there's no need to create made up stories.
00:12:16 --> 00:12:22 Yeah. All right. So give me a number between one and 20.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 Sweet 16. All right. 16.
00:12:26 --> 00:12:32 What's a misconception people often have about your beliefs and values? Yeah.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:36 Hmm. A misconception I think that people have of me.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:40 Hmm. And then just let's be honest, right?
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 I think people may think that I'm a lot more confident than I am,
00:12:44 --> 00:12:46 to be honest with you. You know what I mean?
00:12:46 --> 00:12:52 People may think that in their head that I'm extremely more successful than I feel.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:57 So it's not about imposter syndrome. It's really about, to me, about being humble.
00:12:57 --> 00:13:02 So it's sort of like that's that misconception i think that people think that
00:13:02 --> 00:13:07 hey he kind of has it all together he's super fan you know super successful
00:13:07 --> 00:13:10 and all those kinds of things and
00:13:10 --> 00:13:14 i'm just just really the same guy from macon georgia you know so that's pretty
00:13:14 --> 00:13:22 much it yeah so you know macon georgia native and you've been living in chicago
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 from what i understand for 40 years.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:30 And I kind of did the reverse. I was born in Chicago, raised there.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 And then I went to Mississippi, spent 34 years in Mississippi.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:39 Now I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. So, and part of my job, my regular job,
00:13:39 --> 00:13:40 I have to go to Macon quite a bit.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:46 So I'm somewhat familiar with where you come from and how legendary that city is.
00:13:47 --> 00:13:51 But I, but I want to touch on follow up and
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 it works well with my next question because you talked about you
00:13:54 --> 00:13:58 know how people may misconceive you as being confident or
00:13:58 --> 00:14:02 I'll throw in a word cocky right because that's usually when
00:14:02 --> 00:14:07 they talk about us black men it's like the uppity word shows up right but I
00:14:07 --> 00:14:11 but I know that you're not because you've you've dedicated a lot of time to
00:14:11 --> 00:14:16 mentoring young people and so one of the one of the questions I wanted to ask
00:14:16 --> 00:14:19 you is why is mentoring so important to you?
00:14:19 --> 00:14:23 I tell you, you know, I don't know if you heard the program called Upward Bound,
00:14:24 --> 00:14:26 but you heard Upward Bound, right?
00:14:26 --> 00:14:30 So Upward Bound is for, what is it? Sort of like poor kids.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:35 I was a part of the program. I didn't know I was poor. I didn't feel I was poor.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:40 You know, we, mother and father provided for us, but really it was really about
00:14:40 --> 00:14:45 getting Black kids and stressing upon them the importance of an education after high school.
00:14:45 --> 00:14:49 And that program was instrumental to me.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:53 And when I was in high school, the individuals that I met.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:59 And the world that that program showed me really made the difference in my life.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 And not only my life, that's, you know, you talk about Macon,
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 there's a young man named Virgil Adams.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:09 He's a big time attorney in Macon, Georgia. He and I was in Upward Bound together.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:13 And so, you know, Angela Bassett, a lot of people like that.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:20 But that program just showed me the importance of help and how people that mentored
00:15:20 --> 00:15:24 me and showed me the way, showed me that life was much bigger or could be much
00:15:24 --> 00:15:27 bigger if I chose beyond Macon, Georgia.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:32 And that left such an impact on me. So I had to always give back.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:37 And the thing about it, Eric, I've always been a mentor when I look back at myself.
00:15:37 --> 00:15:41 Even in the Upbound program, once I graduated, I came back as a counselor.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:46 So I think it's just in my blood to be a mentor, you know, maybe because of
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 my mother who always was helping the community, you know.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:53 So I think that's just in my blood. And I never call it mentorship.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:57 It's just I just think just try to help someone, you know what I mean?
00:15:57 --> 00:16:00 Because you're fortunate for certain things, pass it on.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 And it was never a realization. It was just something I always believed in.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:09 So it's just I've been I've been that's just been me. That's a part of my personality.
00:16:10 --> 00:16:15 Part of my brand, so-called brand, you know. So it's just very important.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 Yeah, I have a lot of good memories with Upward Bound.
00:16:18 --> 00:16:24 When I was a legislator, every summer I would participate in the Upward Bound
00:16:24 --> 00:16:26 program at Jackson State. I would teach.
00:16:27 --> 00:16:32 I would literally have a mock, a legislative session with the Upward Bound students.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:37 It'd be like two days and they would go through the process of electing a speaker
00:16:37 --> 00:16:41 of the house and drafting legislation and all that stuff.
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 So I don't know if there's any success stories and come out of that.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:48 But hopefully, at least if anything, they became better citizens because of
00:16:48 --> 00:16:49 that. You know what I'm saying?
00:16:49 --> 00:16:53 And that's all it has to be. It doesn't have to be that you became anything.
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 Right. It's just if you did, you do a little bit better.
00:16:56 --> 00:16:59 Did you do something up to high school? And if you did that,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 I'm quite sure you made an impact. You had to.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:07 So speaking about impact, talk about the scholarship fund you and your wife started.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:13 Okay. So that goes back to, I went to Kent State, you know, and it was a really
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 good experience because I went north. I had never been north before.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:21 So anyway, with Kent State, I had a really good experience there.
00:17:21 --> 00:17:25 That gave me my degree in graphic design that took me on to advertising.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:30 And I was just like, hey, what can I do, again, to put something in place to
00:17:30 --> 00:17:33 help students that may need a little financial help?
00:17:34 --> 00:17:40 So I wanted to put something in place there. I'm a distinguished alumni of Kent State.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:46 And I said, what can I have that could be a legacy for me that played into who I am?
00:17:46 --> 00:17:50 So my wife and I, hey, let's give every semester, every quarter,
00:17:50 --> 00:17:52 let's make sure. We worked out something with Kent State.
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 Of course, universities, they always call in the alumni and say,
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 hey, give something. So I said, yeah, I don't mind giving something.
00:17:59 --> 00:18:03 And what I did is put a stipulation in there that it has to go to a student
00:18:03 --> 00:18:05 that needed financial help.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:10 And to be honest with you, first I specified a student of color.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 But you know, in today's environment, they had to reword that.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:19 And I said, okay, end of the day, long as there's a student that needs financial help.
00:18:19 --> 00:18:22 And when you think about that, it doesn't really matter if you're a person of
00:18:22 --> 00:18:27 color or not. If you're struggling as a student and you love art and you love
00:18:27 --> 00:18:30 advertising and you love design, you deserve a chance.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:35 So I said, OK, that's fine with me. If you need that, I just want to help an
00:18:35 --> 00:18:36 individual that may need help.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:40 Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's always good to give back, man, because,
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 you know, I don't have a scholarship in my name yet.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:48 My mom has one at West Virginia State where she went.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 And, uh, you know, so that, you know, that, that legacy, but I,
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 but I try to do as much as I can.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 And I think it's important for us.
00:18:57 --> 00:19:02 It doesn't matter what college you went to that, you know, that college gave
00:19:02 --> 00:19:07 you an advantage and, and, and altered your life in a way where you were successful
00:19:07 --> 00:19:10 and you want to see other people benefit from that.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:13 So I commend you and your wife for doing it now.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:17 Thank you. Eric, I just want to say your platform that you have now.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:19 I mean, wow. I mean, that's a big help.
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 So, you know what I mean? People listening to things, you don't know who's lost
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 out there, right? Who, who needs that free advice. So I just want to commend
00:19:26 --> 00:19:27 you for what you're doing.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:30 Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Some people,
00:19:31 --> 00:19:35 Some 20 years ago, you worked on an ad campaign for the National Underground
00:19:35 --> 00:19:36 Railroad Freedom Center.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:41 Now, that's that's the one in Cincinnati, right? Yes, sir. Yes,
00:19:41 --> 00:19:45 sir. That's the one in Cincinnati. It's a beautiful, beautiful place.
00:19:45 --> 00:19:51 Why does that campaign stand out to you? And do you think that ad still has relevance today?
00:19:51 --> 00:19:57 Well, you know, again, what we talked about, there's no better story than life itself.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 And that campaign is just really special and
00:20:00 --> 00:20:03 it always will be for me and just underground
00:20:03 --> 00:20:07 railroad freedom center what's that campaign we
00:20:07 --> 00:20:11 ran that campaign before it even existed that was
00:20:11 --> 00:20:15 to really it was just i remember going and we were talking about where it was
00:20:15 --> 00:20:20 going to be and you see this empty space by the river in cincinnati and we was
00:20:20 --> 00:20:24 doing this campaign where we had to first call attention to people that the
00:20:24 --> 00:20:29 power of one person to make a difference when it comes to, you know, racial injustice.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 You know, so often we feel intimidated. It's like, wow, you're in the room.
00:20:34 --> 00:20:38 You're the only person, you know, I mean, you know, the person that something
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 is said about is not in that room.
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 Do you have the power to speak up for that person who's not there?
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 And there's a lot of power in that. You know, if you with the boys and the boys
00:20:47 --> 00:20:51 are saying certain things and you say, hey, fellas, that's not right.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 And all eyes are going to look back at you, Erik. That takes a lot of strength.
00:20:56 --> 00:21:00 But at the end of the day, probably you said it out loud, but it's two or three
00:21:00 --> 00:21:04 other brothers in there that really felt the same way. But they went with the crowd.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 So that was the power of one campaign.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:11 And we used all these different racial scenarios. We did, you know,
00:21:11 --> 00:21:15 black man walking in a store, a black woman, a black man on the elevator.
00:21:15 --> 00:21:19 We we flipped it where we had, you know, kids in high school,
00:21:19 --> 00:21:21 all the black kids sit together.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 Right. We did one where the white girl came and sit with the black kids and
00:21:24 --> 00:21:25 the black sister's like.
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 What's this white girl doing here? So it could be reversed as well.
00:21:29 --> 00:21:34 So we did a lot of things about that and the power of one voice.
00:21:34 --> 00:21:38 But why it's special was just letting people know why the National Underground
00:21:38 --> 00:21:41 Freedom Center needed to be.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:46 It needed to exist because there was a lot of work that had to be done.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:51 And we wanted to show it in everyday situations and also let you know you have
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 the power to make a difference.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:58 Yeah. And like I said, it's a beautiful facility. One of the cool things they've
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02 had, they had there was a game that you could play.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:09 And you had to try to escape and use the railroad and go as far as you can.
00:22:09 --> 00:22:13 I made it all the way to Canada. So I was like, that was encouraging for me.
00:22:13 --> 00:22:15 I made it out the country.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:21 So why is advertising to black consumers so unique?
00:22:21 --> 00:22:25 Speak because we are because we
00:22:25 --> 00:22:28 are we we you know it's always
00:22:28 --> 00:22:34 something different by us we take just even just go back we we come back and
00:22:34 --> 00:22:42 everything we we touch we put our signature on you know when you go i know twitter
00:22:42 --> 00:22:48 doesn't exist anymore but go even today you know So we created this thing called Black Twitter.
00:22:49 --> 00:22:50 Our language, right?
00:22:51 --> 00:22:53 There's the English language, but what?
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 We got our special, you know, call it Ebonics.
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 But Ebonics is a language that's very unique.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:05 The way we communicate to each other and how we communicate,
00:23:05 --> 00:23:09 we're just a very special, unique community.
00:23:09 --> 00:23:15 And it was based off this unique situation. It was very dire, our situation, right?
00:23:15 --> 00:23:18 Coming over as slaves and blah, blah, blah, blah. We all know our history.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:23 But through that, we created such a unique culture.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:33 That just doesn't exist anywhere. And it's continually is one of the most creative cultures ever created.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:38 And that's why so many people plug in and borrow from it.
00:23:38 --> 00:23:43 And I'm being nice when I say borrow as opposed to.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:50 Right. And I think it's really important for us to be acknowledged,
00:23:50 --> 00:23:54 because even though all of those we have this great culture,
00:23:54 --> 00:23:57 no one, especially in media, will look back upon us.
00:23:57 --> 00:24:05 Because I'm young, old enough to remember when there was no black shows on television.
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 You know, the black athletes, who mattered?
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 Didn't matter how talented you were as a musician, an artist,
00:24:13 --> 00:24:16 or a doctor, a lawyer, always was hard.
00:24:16 --> 00:24:20 So you never saw yourself in unique situations.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 So when you advertise to black people, one of the things that worked,
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 when I worked at Burrell Advertising, what I always want to do now,
00:24:27 --> 00:24:30 is to show your life and reflect that.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:37 So some little young boy, some little young girl will see Simone flipping in
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 the air and want to be that one day.
00:24:40 --> 00:24:46 And to tell those stories. And advertising is a media platform where millions
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 of people get a chance to see that message.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:54 And I just think I was very fortunate to be in an industry that allows me to
00:24:54 --> 00:24:58 do that and use that platform to use brands, whether it's McDonald's,
00:24:58 --> 00:25:03 P&G, Toyota, whatever, to celebrate that.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 So that's kind of why that's why it's very important. It's important to see it.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:11 You see it all the time. You got to see it to be it, you know,
00:25:11 --> 00:25:15 and that's that's really important. Very extremely important.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:19 Even today, even today, when we see the stories.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 But what stories are we seeing? Because think about the deity trial right now.
00:25:24 --> 00:25:26 Negative, negative, negative, negative, negative.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:30 Put that in quotes. But where are the positive stories? And there's so many
00:25:30 --> 00:25:35 positive stories out there as well. and the media always want to push that negative
00:25:35 --> 00:25:37 that falls right into it, right?
00:25:37 --> 00:25:41 So it's important for brands to advertise so we get a chance to,
00:25:41 --> 00:25:46 we call this thing positive realism. We get a chance to display positive realism
00:25:46 --> 00:25:51 through advertising, you know, and that's why I find this thought so important. Yeah.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:57 All right, so this is a political show, so I'm going to pick your brain on this one.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:04 If I decided to run for president of the United States in 2028 and I hired you
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 to put together an ad campaign for that effort, how would you approach that?
00:26:09 --> 00:26:15 Wow. That would be interesting because we know what all the barriers are going to be.
00:26:15 --> 00:26:20 The first one, we already had one. That's a black man already.
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 And we all know it's going to be pretty difficult. And people's minds say,
00:26:25 --> 00:26:26 we've done that already.
00:26:27 --> 00:26:30 Right. Do we want to go back to that as well as, you know, today's environment?
00:26:31 --> 00:26:37 So we have to kind of find out like what makes you unique? Eric, you are a black man.
00:26:38 --> 00:26:39 Yes, we're not going to run away from that.
00:26:41 --> 00:26:45 We're going to find out what makes you connect to people. What is so we have
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 to probe you and say, Erik, what are you different?
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51 What how are you going to make my life better?
00:26:51 --> 00:26:56 How can you know how are you going to relate to people that may not like you?
00:26:57 --> 00:27:00 What is your plan to make the world better?
00:27:00 --> 00:27:04 So we have to really got, before I can tell you what we're going to do,
00:27:04 --> 00:27:09 we got to first really understand you and your vision and how we're going to
00:27:09 --> 00:27:13 take that vision and lay that out to our, you know,
00:27:14 --> 00:27:16 hopefully potential voters.
00:27:17 --> 00:27:20 How are we going to position ourselves? And then we are also going to have a
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 look around the field around you. Who else is running?
00:27:23 --> 00:27:28 It may be another black man running, another black woman running,
00:27:28 --> 00:27:29 a Hispanic person running.
00:27:29 --> 00:27:34 And, of course, Caucasian male and female is running. So we've got to look at the entire field.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:39 But at the end of the day, you know, they're going to lean into who's the candidate
00:27:39 --> 00:27:46 they feel they can trust their present and their future with. Yeah.
00:27:47 --> 00:27:50 So I couldn't tell you what that's going to be. You know what I mean?
00:27:50 --> 00:27:53 But that's how I would go at it before we do anything.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:57 We got to have that strategy. We got to have that strategy.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:03 So I've interviewed some people who are really good at storytelling.
00:28:05 --> 00:28:10 And that was the one thing that they were stressing, especially last year during
00:28:10 --> 00:28:17 the presidential campaign, that they felt that certain candidates were not good storytellers.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:26 Right. And that may have cost them or at that point made them struggle during the campaign.
00:28:27 --> 00:28:30 And what you described sounds like the same thing, that you want,
00:28:31 --> 00:28:34 you just talk about how important it is to tell a story.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 Yes. So we have to first know who you are to tell that story.
00:28:38 --> 00:28:40 And we have to tell that story where it's relatable.
00:28:41 --> 00:28:46 You know, and that was one of my leaders in Upward Bound, you know,
00:28:46 --> 00:28:50 one of the directors of Upward Bound, his name was Bobby Jones.
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 PhD, three or four degrees, smart as a will.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:02 What I love about Mr. Jones, he can come to the students and have a conversation with us.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:08 Then we would see him go to Atlanta and dress, you know, representatives,
00:29:09 --> 00:29:11 and he would still be the same Bobby Jones.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:19 But he had this incredible way of being relatable to the audience he was talking
00:29:19 --> 00:29:21 to without flip-flopping.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:27 And it's sort of like, sometimes that's just a gif, right?
00:29:28 --> 00:29:33 You know what I mean? Sometimes it's just a gift. And so, but it is important
00:29:33 --> 00:29:34 to say, what is your story?
00:29:35 --> 00:29:40 How do we want to present that story? And why should I even care about your story?
00:29:41 --> 00:29:44 You know, and how can your story be my story?
00:29:45 --> 00:29:50 And it is about storytelling. And that's one of the present things we're in
00:29:50 --> 00:29:56 right now is that we have an individual that makes things very simple.
00:29:57 --> 00:30:00 You know he brands everything when you say
00:30:00 --> 00:30:04 big beautiful bill now it has
00:30:04 --> 00:30:10 a flow to it big beautiful bill that rolls off the tongue there's a rhythm to
00:30:10 --> 00:30:18 it it's big fantastic it's beautiful so versus oh we got this bill bill number
00:30:18 --> 00:30:23 3248 bill you know it's like huh what huh he broke that down.
00:30:23 --> 00:30:27 And it's really interesting that I want to be on one of these talk shows and
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 say, stop calling it the big, beautiful bill. It is not.
00:30:31 --> 00:30:36 It's a big, ugly bill. You know what I mean? But people who's criticizing the
00:30:36 --> 00:30:39 bill call it big, beautiful bill.
00:30:39 --> 00:30:43 So even though I'm criticizing it, I'm still calling it the big, beautiful bill.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:47 And a person just from a storyteller that's only picking up certain things are
00:30:47 --> 00:30:49 only hearing big, beautiful bill.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:52 And you know what I mean? So This person has really understood,
00:30:52 --> 00:30:57 keep the story simple, keep it relatable, and it'll work for you.
00:30:57 --> 00:31:02 So it's very elementary and it's very basic, very fundamental.
00:31:03 --> 00:31:08 It can be very powerful for people who understand it and is very consistent with it.
00:31:08 --> 00:31:13 And so it'll beat all the people at Harvard and everybody that's speaking way
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 up here, all the Ivy League talk and all of that is not connecting.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:22 It's not connecting because you're not telling that story in a very simple way.
00:31:22 --> 00:31:27 So you led me into one of my questions I was going to ask you.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:32 Since you since you do this for a living or you've done this for a living,
00:31:33 --> 00:31:39 is that what makes the president so appealing is because he's able to make these
00:31:39 --> 00:31:43 big things like, you know, make America great again, big, beautiful bill, all this stuff.
00:31:43 --> 00:31:47 Is that what makes him appealing to voters? Is that the reason why people support
00:31:47 --> 00:31:51 him, despite whatever else you may know about him?
00:31:52 --> 00:31:58 Yes. He somehow gave the catch. Hey, I'm just regular like you are. I don't speak that well.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:04 I don't seem like I know what I'm doing. I make mistakes.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 All of this kind of, all these things, he's just more relatable.
00:32:08 --> 00:32:11 And it hurts me. It's more, and he has that figured out.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:16 He's just more, he's the stumbling, bumbling, everyday person.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:22 You know, he's not in a, you know, suit and tie that's fitted great,
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 his hair is perfect, and he stumbles and bumbles.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:29 And then also, he's able to tap into the fears.
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 He's a master of storytelling, tapping into the fears of America and telling
00:32:33 --> 00:32:36 their story through that. You know, they're criminals.
00:32:36 --> 00:32:40 You know, they're rapists. You know what I mean? All these things like that.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:47 Now, that story is, oh, fear those people. I'm giving you something to hold on to, which is fear.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 Fear these people and get them out of here.
00:32:50 --> 00:32:55 Again, he keeps telling stories, makes them relatable, but everybody gets scared, right?
00:32:55 --> 00:32:59 Nobody, everybody fears that person over there that might hurt my family,
00:32:59 --> 00:33:03 even though it's nobody in the entire city that looks like that.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:09 That concept is like, I'm going to protect my family, but there's no Latinos
00:33:09 --> 00:33:11 that's even in your town. Yeah.
00:33:12 --> 00:33:19 Conceptually, you know what I mean, right? So, yeah, he just has that thing.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:24 And, you know, that thing is, you know, that thing is like, I remember someone
00:33:24 --> 00:33:29 made a statement, I was reading one of the books, and they said hot and cold is the same thing.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:34 You know, we look at hot and cold as being opposites, but they aren't opposites.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:39 Hot and cold is really the same thing. It's just one on this side of the spectrum
00:33:39 --> 00:33:44 and one on the extreme side of the other spectrum. But the line is the same.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:47 You just go whoop to whoop. And that's good and bad.
00:33:48 --> 00:33:55 So just think of all of those qualities that that individual will have now was for good.
00:33:56 --> 00:34:00 It just, unfortunately, all of those, I hate to even call them good qualities,
00:34:00 --> 00:34:06 all those masterful things that he has, that it thing, unfortunately, it's on that bad side.
00:34:06 --> 00:34:12 And we haven't been able to find our it person to counter that yet.
00:34:12 --> 00:34:17 Yeah. And in political science, it's literally called the it factor,
00:34:17 --> 00:34:24 right? There's a, I forget what they call it, but it's like a political perception
00:34:24 --> 00:34:25 scale or something like that.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:30 Where it's like how, I got to go back and remember what the term was,
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 but it's basically like, do you check all the boxes?
00:34:35 --> 00:34:38 Do you have a good presence on in media
00:34:38 --> 00:34:40 do you articulate ideas well can
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 you storytell do you have a great backstory and
00:34:43 --> 00:34:49 all that stuff so you know a lot of people because however you know especially
00:34:49 --> 00:34:54 if they're critical of them don't want to acknowledge that but he has an it
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 factor just like a john f kennedy had an it factor just like a bill clinton
00:34:58 --> 00:35:01 has an it factor just like Ronald Reagan had an it factor, right? Yeah.
00:35:02 --> 00:35:07 Obama had an it factor. Oh, most definitely. So, I mean, that's something that.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:13 Those of us who observe politics, you know, agree with.
00:35:13 --> 00:35:18 It's like, now we may not agree on policy, you know, whichever side you land
00:35:18 --> 00:35:23 on, but in order to be president of the United States, you got to have that it factor.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:25 Yes, sir. You do.
00:35:26 --> 00:35:30 And it's like, you know, people like, hey, she's smart. She's this,
00:35:30 --> 00:35:32 but I just don't like her.
00:35:34 --> 00:35:38 But I just don't like her. What is it?
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 They can't tell you and a
00:35:43 --> 00:35:45 lot of deep things so you know of course it's i mean that's
00:35:45 --> 00:35:49 like this whole thing about white americans feel like they're
00:35:49 --> 00:35:51 getting replaced and you know so we all know that's at
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 play but again that person still it still takes the right person to get in there
00:35:55 --> 00:36:00 and lock that to for them to do something that you can feel that way but that
00:36:00 --> 00:36:05 doesn't mean i'm going to to do anything so he's able to tap in that and actually
00:36:05 --> 00:36:10 get them to respond because of his it factor because they would have just normally sat there, right?
00:36:10 --> 00:36:14 Because that's been around a long time, but who had the power to unlock that
00:36:14 --> 00:36:17 energy, right? And he's been able to do that.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:23 Yeah. So my last question to you, one of the things that we,
00:36:23 --> 00:36:30 when we've run for office or served or whatever, one of the things that people
00:36:30 --> 00:36:34 don't want us to do is pander to an audience, Right.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:39 If you're speaking to the LGBTQ community, don't make your message just strictly on them.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:46 Talk about how what you want to do relates to them, but not necessarily pander
00:36:46 --> 00:36:49 to them. Right. In the same way with the black community, all that.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:55 So my question to you is because you've done it from a capitalistic perspective. Yeah.
00:36:55 --> 00:37:02 From a political perspective, can a message that is tailored for black folks be universal?
00:37:03 --> 00:37:04 By all means.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:10 Because we have something in advertising we call a universal insight.
00:37:11 --> 00:37:16 And that universal insight just goes across cultures. It goes across race.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:20 It goes across communities because we all feel that way. Why?
00:37:20 --> 00:37:24 Because we're human. And that's back to there's no better story than life itself.
00:37:24 --> 00:37:28 That's something that connect us as human beings instinctively.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:30 And we call that universal insight.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:36 So if you are talking to somebody, especially in a community that you're not
00:37:36 --> 00:37:40 a part of, it's like the black community, you understand there's a lot of suspicion,
00:37:40 --> 00:37:43 a lot of distrust, right?
00:37:43 --> 00:37:47 And you have to kind of embrace some of that and acknowledge some of that because
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 at the end of the day, people just want to be seen.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:55 I don't have to agree with you and you know what I mean, but I just,
00:37:55 --> 00:37:59 do you see me and do you respect me?
00:38:00 --> 00:38:05 At the end of the day, you can address any audience and if you can make them
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 feel seen and respected,
00:38:08 --> 00:38:14 because that, What happened the other day when that congresswoman said,
00:38:14 --> 00:38:16 well, we're all going to die?
00:38:18 --> 00:38:26 You see that cut across, it's like, what? That just was so insensitive as a person.
00:38:26 --> 00:38:31 Of course we're all going to die. You insulted me, right?
00:38:32 --> 00:38:35 Yeah, it's going to die, but who wants to lose someone close to them?
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 We all know that as a fact, but we don't want to lose it.
00:38:40 --> 00:38:44 Not that we got our heads in the sand about it, but that just showed that was
00:38:44 --> 00:38:46 just a pure insensitive.
00:38:46 --> 00:38:50 And I just wonder, how did a person get to that level being that insensitive?
00:38:50 --> 00:38:54 But again, but if you have that universal insight and you stand in front of
00:38:54 --> 00:38:58 any audience, because a lot of people say it about brands, they'll go,
00:38:58 --> 00:39:02 who is this brand like McDonald's or whoever brand to come talk to me and tell
00:39:02 --> 00:39:04 me about my culture? And it's like, hey.
00:39:05 --> 00:39:11 McDonald's has the right to talk to you like anybody else, but are they doing it the right way?
00:39:11 --> 00:39:16 You know what I mean? With respect. And that's why you have to be really sensitive,
00:39:16 --> 00:39:21 very sensitive, especially when you do multicultural audiences or certain niche
00:39:21 --> 00:39:24 audiences like LGBTQ and everything like that.
00:39:24 --> 00:39:27 There's a lot of sensitivity around there.
00:39:27 --> 00:39:31 But like to your point, you can't go in pandering because that's the first thing.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:37 That's the first mistake. You know what I mean? You know, and then also you
00:39:37 --> 00:39:40 got to do your homework about these communities.
00:39:40 --> 00:39:44 You know, you don't have to know everything, but you should have some basic,
00:39:44 --> 00:39:49 you know, you should have some basic knowledge of every community you should
00:39:49 --> 00:39:51 address. And that's just respect.
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54 Right. At the end of the day, you know, if I know something about you,
00:39:54 --> 00:39:59 that means you've taken time to know something about me. I don't expect for
00:39:59 --> 00:40:06 you to know my life story, but you say, hey, you are important enough for me to see you.
00:40:06 --> 00:40:11 And as long as any audience can feel that, then I think they're willing to first
00:40:11 --> 00:40:13 listen, then listen to what you may have to say.
00:40:15 --> 00:40:21 Well, Brother Lewis-Williams, I had a feeling that when I invited you and that
00:40:21 --> 00:40:24 you accepted that this would be a beneficial conversation.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:28 And in the short time that I've been able to pick your brain,
00:40:28 --> 00:40:32 I can truly attest to that, that this has been beneficial.
00:40:33 --> 00:40:39 It is my hope that people that are political like me reach out to people like
00:40:39 --> 00:40:43 you to get a better sense of how to better communicate with the masses.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:47 And hopefully we can get a better government in the long term.
00:40:47 --> 00:40:54 So let me thank you for coming on. Let me thank you for what you have done to
00:40:54 --> 00:41:00 help make people in the corporate world understand the importance of Black people
00:41:00 --> 00:41:02 and, more importantly, Black dollars.
00:41:02 --> 00:41:08 And just the work that you're doing to continue to help young people achieve
00:41:08 --> 00:41:10 what they want to achieve.
00:41:10 --> 00:41:14 So I just want to thank you for all that. If people want to get in touch with
00:41:14 --> 00:41:18 you, if people want to follow you and all that stuff, how can they reach out to you? Okay.
00:41:19 --> 00:41:23 I'm on LinkedIn. Lewis Williams on LinkedIn. So you can hit me up there.
00:41:23 --> 00:41:31 My website is there. L Williams at WCGChicago.com is my, it's my,
00:41:31 --> 00:41:32 and I can give this to you.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:35 So if you can put it in the bio and things like that, but you can easily go
00:41:35 --> 00:41:37 to LinkedIn and then we can go from there.
00:41:37 --> 00:41:40 Cause all my information is there. So Lewis Williams on LinkedIn.
00:41:41 --> 00:41:45 All right, brother. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on.
00:41:45 --> 00:41:50 I know you've got some other commitments today, but I'm glad you took the time to come on this podcast.
00:41:50 --> 00:41:53 It's been been my honor and I appreciate it.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:56 And Erik, thank you again. And hey, man, you and I know each other now.
00:41:57 --> 00:42:01 Right. So feel free to reach out and we can always talk. So let's not be let's
00:42:01 --> 00:42:05 not let this be the last time we talk. Oh, no, no doubt. And that's a rule of mine.
00:42:05 --> 00:42:08 Anytime you've been a guest on the show, you have an open invitation to come back.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:12 So we some burning in your chest, brother, you can reach out to me,
00:42:12 --> 00:42:13 too. So I appreciate that.
00:42:14 --> 00:42:17 Thank you, sir. OK, take care, my friend. All right, guys. Thank you.
00:42:17 --> 00:42:18 And and we'll catch you all on.
00:42:18 --> 00:42:36 Music.
00:42:38 --> 00:42:43 All right. And we are back. And so it is time for my next guest, Ashley T.
00:42:44 --> 00:42:50 Martin. Ashley T. Martin is a passionate advocate for social justice and equity,
00:42:50 --> 00:42:53 serving as the founder of Lustitia Aequalis,
00:42:54 --> 00:42:58 Inc., a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting equal access to justice
00:42:58 --> 00:43:00 and empowering marginalized communities.
00:43:00 --> 00:43:04 With over 23 years of experience in fundraising,
00:43:04 --> 00:43:09 Ashley has successfully raised more than $65 million through her work at ATM
00:43:09 --> 00:43:14 Grant Writing and Consulting Corporation, where she has secured funding for
00:43:14 --> 00:43:19 a wide range of programs across state and federal government, court systems,
00:43:19 --> 00:43:23 health care, and more, both nationally and internationally.
00:43:23 --> 00:43:27 In addition to her role as Lustitia Aequalis.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:31 Ashley is actively involved with fundraising for the National Society of Black
00:43:31 --> 00:43:36 Engineers, where she advocates for diversity and inclusion within the engineering field,
00:43:36 --> 00:43:41 especially amid the elimination of DEI programs, where engineering touches every
00:43:41 --> 00:43:44 aspect of life across the globe.
00:43:44 --> 00:43:48 With a strong commitment to personal and community empowerment and advocacy,
00:43:49 --> 00:43:52 Ashley continues to drive meaningful change through her initiatives,
00:43:52 --> 00:43:58 focusing on leveraging technology and education to create a more just society.
00:43:58 --> 00:44:04 Her work exemplifies the power of collaboration and innovation in tackling the
00:44:04 --> 00:44:06 pressing challenges of our time.
00:44:06 --> 00:44:10 Ladies and gentlemen, it is truly my distinct honor and privilege to have as
00:44:10 --> 00:44:15 a guest on this podcast, Ashley T. Martin.
00:44:16 --> 00:44:25 Music.
00:44:26 --> 00:44:30 All right. Ashley T. Martin. How are you doing, sister? You doing good?
00:44:31 --> 00:44:34 I'm doing very well. Thanks for asking. How about you?
00:44:35 --> 00:44:39 It's good to talk to you in this format. We've talked before,
00:44:39 --> 00:44:45 and it's always been a pleasure to jump on a Zoom with you and talk.
00:44:45 --> 00:44:50 And I'm really honored that you wanted to be a guest on this podcast to talk
00:44:50 --> 00:44:53 about something that I'm kind of excited about for you.
00:44:53 --> 00:45:02 And we'll get into all that, but I usually start off my interviews with the icebreakers.
00:45:03 --> 00:45:06 Okay. So the first icebreaker I do is a quote.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:12 And so I want you to respond to this quote. Creating a more equitable society
00:45:12 --> 00:45:15 requires more than just financial support.
00:45:15 --> 00:45:19 It requires giving people the tools to speak up for themselves,
00:45:19 --> 00:45:23 access justice, and take control of their futures.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:28 What does that quote mean to you? That actually resonates a lot.
00:45:29 --> 00:45:33 It actually drives right into the platform that we're going to talk about today,
00:45:34 --> 00:45:35 or at least I hope to talk a little bit about.
00:45:36 --> 00:45:40 I think that there's so many components to achieving justice, right?
00:45:41 --> 00:45:44 And justice can mean so many things to different people, but the resources and
00:45:44 --> 00:45:50 the people that drive it, really, that resonates because knowledge is required,
00:45:50 --> 00:45:56 conversations are required. And neither one of those costs very much.
00:45:56 --> 00:46:01 It's just a willingness to be open and to be able to think and to take factual
00:46:01 --> 00:46:04 information and not leave your emotions,
00:46:04 --> 00:46:10 but realize that so many things drive us and the ability to know that justice
00:46:10 --> 00:46:13 can prevail, whether it does or not.
00:46:13 --> 00:46:17 And that there's there's more to it than money that that definitely resonates.
00:46:17 --> 00:46:23 Yeah. All right. So my next icebreaker, I need you to give me a number between one and 20.
00:46:24 --> 00:46:26 Seven. OK, seven.
00:46:28 --> 00:46:32 What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,
00:46:32 --> 00:46:34 current events, health, etc.?
00:46:35 --> 00:46:41 Oh, wow. The best way to stay informed. I would say get to know who you voted for.
00:46:42 --> 00:46:47 Get to know who they are as people, where they come from, what their platforms
00:46:47 --> 00:46:52 are, what their opinions are, their willingness to listen to you and the policy
00:46:52 --> 00:46:53 briefs that go behind them.
00:46:53 --> 00:46:56 Right. Because we can't just go around saying, well, things should change and
00:46:56 --> 00:46:57 then they magically change.
00:46:58 --> 00:47:03 Policy, once implemented, can take years, sometimes decades to turn over.
00:47:04 --> 00:47:08 And knowing that and knowing that even though it may not affect you personally,
00:47:08 --> 00:47:12 it's going to impact your community and how they're able to engage with you
00:47:12 --> 00:47:14 for years to come, maybe even generations.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:18 So if you if you go to the ballot box or even if you pick up a policy brief
00:47:18 --> 00:47:22 or even if you just pick your choice of news outlet, right,
00:47:22 --> 00:47:27 whether you're CNN or Fox, whatever, whatever your your outlet is that you are
00:47:27 --> 00:47:31 at least logical and you're willing to consider facts outside of your own and
00:47:31 --> 00:47:33 have those conversations. Yeah.
00:47:34 --> 00:47:37 Yeah. So is tenacious a good word to describe you?
00:47:40 --> 00:47:43 Absolutely. Maybe even some other words. I've been called many things.
00:47:44 --> 00:47:48 If that's what comes to mind, I'll take it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:48 --> 00:47:52 Trust me, I've I've I've heard some other names outside of mine myself.
00:47:53 --> 00:47:57 Yeah. So why do you why do you think it is a good word? You know,
00:47:57 --> 00:48:00 for me, it's just it's an attitude about how we go about things.
00:48:00 --> 00:48:02 Right. And by we, I actually mean me.
00:48:02 --> 00:48:08 I talk so much about organizational assistance and I'm a grant writer and fundraiser
00:48:08 --> 00:48:13 by profession. And so it's always we because it's I look at underlying causes.
00:48:13 --> 00:48:17 I look at the statistics. I look at the people behind programming.
00:48:17 --> 00:48:21 And so being tenacious is really just a part of what I do every day.
00:48:21 --> 00:48:26 And so if I can implement that into other things, into my relationships,
00:48:26 --> 00:48:30 into other things, I think that that's not a bad thing. There's other things
00:48:30 --> 00:48:33 I could be, so if tenacious comes to mind, I definitely take it.
00:48:35 --> 00:48:48 So let's talk about how you implement that with what is the mission of Lustitia Aequalis.
00:48:49 --> 00:48:56 It's Lustitia Aequalis. It is Latin, actually. And anybody. I took Latin in high school.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:02 Lustitia Aequalis. Okay, go ahead. Yes. And it translates very simply to equal justice.
00:49:03 --> 00:49:09 The platform that I'm building is intentionally slow, kind of a lot like policy,
00:49:09 --> 00:49:13 because this is something that I want to do and I want to do it well.
00:49:13 --> 00:49:22 I want people to be positively impacted by it. It will address in the long run.
00:49:22 --> 00:49:25 Right now, we're focusing on law enforcement interactions.
00:49:26 --> 00:49:32 That's going to next year in 2026. We'll focus on court systems and blend in
00:49:32 --> 00:49:37 health care systems because believe it or not, there is high levels of discrimination
00:49:37 --> 00:49:40 in all three of those. probably a lot policy related.
00:49:40 --> 00:49:45 I think you and I had a recent conversation where I consider things like police
00:49:45 --> 00:49:49 accountability, qualified immunity, surveillance limits, citizens' traffic stops.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:51 All of that is policy driven.
00:49:51 --> 00:49:56 And because we, you know, I just, I read a report where 80% of Americans,
00:49:56 --> 00:49:59 and this is just focusing on America right now, it's not even international,
00:49:59 --> 00:50:03 which the app will serve internationally, but 80% of Americans,
00:50:03 --> 00:50:09 all of us took a civics class at one point, but 80% of us can't articulate our rights.
00:50:09 --> 00:50:14 And that's a problem because if you can't articulate it, you also don't know how to assert them.
00:50:15 --> 00:50:20 And so Lustitia Aequalis really exists to ensure that laws don't just exist on
00:50:20 --> 00:50:25 paper, on a policy brief or a 300-page policy that nobody's going to read,
00:50:25 --> 00:50:30 probably not even the people who vote for them, but that they protect us in real time.
00:50:30 --> 00:50:34 And what I take from implementing technology and policy is, you know.
00:50:34 --> 00:50:38 Policies have changed over the years, right? We can Google anything we want,
00:50:38 --> 00:50:41 but our protections have to as well.
00:50:41 --> 00:50:43 And so the development of this app is called the Witness app.
00:50:44 --> 00:50:48 You know, I don't personally, I don't care if someone is guilty. I really don't.
00:50:48 --> 00:50:54 But they still have civil and human rights. They don't deserve to have an officer
00:50:54 --> 00:50:56 kneeling on their neck for nine minutes.
00:50:56 --> 00:50:59 They don't deserve to be begging for their life and still shot and killed.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:02 And, you know, I'll go ahead and address the elephant in the room.
00:51:02 --> 00:51:05 This is not just a minority initiative.
00:51:05 --> 00:51:10 It's for everybody. Because unfortunately, in developing this app,
00:51:10 --> 00:51:15 I've run across mothers who are not persons of color.
00:51:16 --> 00:51:23 And how do you console the wailing of a mother whose son was shot and killed
00:51:23 --> 00:51:24 with his hands up? Because it happens.
00:51:25 --> 00:51:28 It absolutely happens. It may not make the mainstream stories because it's not
00:51:28 --> 00:51:32 as interesting and it doesn't garner as much attention, but it happens. It happens every day.
00:51:33 --> 00:51:38 Thousands of people lose their lives from simple, what should be simple interactions.
00:51:38 --> 00:51:40 And so the app is really developed to do four things.
00:51:40 --> 00:51:47 It's meant to address your emergency needs right now, sort of minimize those
00:51:47 --> 00:51:52 racial or ill-driven differences that we may have.
00:51:52 --> 00:51:55 And, you know, no knock on the officers. I think officers are people,
00:51:55 --> 00:51:59 too, but we've got to realize that a lot of officers are eligible to carry a gun at age 21.
00:52:01 --> 00:52:05 I certainly was not the smartest person at 21 years old and so I can logically
00:52:05 --> 00:52:06 think through things but,
00:52:07 --> 00:52:10 I really want people to go home at the end of the day whether that's
00:52:10 --> 00:52:17 in handcuffs or not but the app is meant to one start recording at your voice
00:52:17 --> 00:52:21 and so we're developing so it won't be like an officer can say put your phone
00:52:21 --> 00:52:26 down it's still recording one of the cases that touched my heart recently was
00:52:26 --> 00:52:28 the murder of Sonia Massey.
00:52:28 --> 00:52:33 Her hands were up. The officer did not have his camera on. His partner did.
00:52:33 --> 00:52:37 And I just think that that could have been handled in so many ways.
00:52:38 --> 00:52:42 But what I am tired of doing is being asked to march. I'm not marching anywhere.
00:52:43 --> 00:52:44 I'm not. I'm not marching.
00:52:44 --> 00:52:49 What I will do is do my best to implement what I know in underlying causes and
00:52:49 --> 00:52:53 use something that we have as technology to help us survive, right?
00:52:53 --> 00:52:56 Survive the stop, handle the halt, however you want to say it,
00:52:56 --> 00:53:00 but to at the command of your voice, start recording. And it can do that through smartphones.
00:53:01 --> 00:53:04 And we've considered, you know, sometimes moving for your smartphone may be
00:53:04 --> 00:53:06 the worst thing you can do, but it also works with smart glasses.
00:53:06 --> 00:53:10 It also works with your Apple watch to ask it to, you know, start that recording.
00:53:10 --> 00:53:13 And the officer won't be able to say, put that down, don't record.
00:53:13 --> 00:53:17 At least if you do not have something pointing at that officer and recording,
00:53:17 --> 00:53:20 it will still record the audio part.
00:53:20 --> 00:53:24 And I think what's important about that is we don't realize how hard it is to
00:53:24 --> 00:53:26 get that evidence when you need it.
00:53:26 --> 00:53:30 And so if you're waiting on administrations to hand over that documentation,
00:53:30 --> 00:53:35 your attorney to get it, no, this app will automatically download it.
00:53:35 --> 00:53:39 It sets up your account so that the next of kin and your attorney can have it as soon as it happens.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:44 And only you, your voice recognition, will be able to stop that recording.
00:53:44 --> 00:53:50 And so in tandem with that, simultaneously, it'll pin drop your location so we know where you are.
00:53:50 --> 00:53:55 I do want to minimize those instances where Sandra Bland was held for days.
00:53:55 --> 00:54:00 Like no one was coming to get her and then she just ends up not alive anymore
00:54:00 --> 00:54:04 and I just don't think Again, even if you are guilty of speeding,
00:54:04 --> 00:54:07 does that mean your life should have been lost?
00:54:07 --> 00:54:11 I disagree with that And I think that when we have things like our department
00:54:11 --> 00:54:14 of justice Really letting us down this year.
00:54:15 --> 00:54:20 I I won't hide the fact that I am really disappointed with decisions to not
00:54:20 --> 00:54:25 honor those agreements post-Brionna Taylor and post-George Floyd,
00:54:25 --> 00:54:31 where you promised to work with cities and states to rectify officer tracking,
00:54:31 --> 00:54:35 to rectify issues with aggressive policing.
00:54:35 --> 00:54:39 And all of a sudden, in this new administration in 2025, those programs just
00:54:39 --> 00:54:41 magically went away very quietly.
00:54:41 --> 00:54:43 I think there's something that the public doesn't know,
00:54:44 --> 00:54:46 unless you follow things like this, is that there was a program with the Department
00:54:46 --> 00:54:49 of Justice called NLEAD. Now, don't ask me what it stands for.
00:54:49 --> 00:54:51 I could Google it, but you can too. It's N-L-E-A-D.
00:54:52 --> 00:54:57 And essentially what that was, was a tracking for officers because officers.
00:54:57 --> 00:55:02 On a federal level, I think that, you know, if they took the database away from us, it's okay.
00:55:02 --> 00:55:06 We can rebuild it because people still have the ability to report misconduct
00:55:06 --> 00:55:10 and not to internal investigations where things may get handled and they may not.
00:55:10 --> 00:55:14 But there's another party asking for open records requests of officer training.
00:55:14 --> 00:55:18 With Sonia Massey, I disagree that that officer should have ever been policing
00:55:18 --> 00:55:19 anybody with his record.
00:55:20 --> 00:55:25 There's a long history of people complaining about him and nothing was done.
00:55:25 --> 00:55:29 And he murders this woman in her home when she was asking for help.
00:55:29 --> 00:55:33 And so these are just, I know that's a long-winded answer to your question,
00:55:33 --> 00:55:37 but it's so passionate because our communities are dying.
00:55:37 --> 00:55:40 And these are faces of vibrant people who have so much to offer that really
00:55:40 --> 00:55:42 should be here. They should be here.
00:55:43 --> 00:55:48 Yeah. So NLEAD is National Law Enforcement Accountability Database.
00:55:49 --> 00:55:53 And so you've addressed the question I was going to ask about that because I
00:55:53 --> 00:55:58 specifically was going to ask the department's decision to delete it.
00:55:58 --> 00:56:02 What impact would it have on accountability and confidence? And I think you've
00:56:02 --> 00:56:03 already addressed that.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:11 So let me ask you a question this way. A 2024 Gallup poll showed that 51% of
00:56:11 --> 00:56:17 Americans have confidence in the police, and that's up. That was an increase.
00:56:17 --> 00:56:23 It had been as low as 43%, like right after what happened with George Floyd.
00:56:23 --> 00:56:30 Do you believe that the Lustitia Aequalis app would improve that confidence?
00:56:31 --> 00:56:35 I think it's a step in that direction to improve that confidence,
00:56:35 --> 00:56:38 because I think that we have to have something.
00:56:39 --> 00:56:42 And I'm not saying Lustitia Aequalis is the perfect answer, but we are willing
00:56:42 --> 00:56:46 to have those conversations. We are willing to tell people what their civil and human rights are.
00:56:47 --> 00:56:51 We are willing to have workshops virtually or in person to come to you.
00:56:51 --> 00:56:55 Our board actually has a retired member of our government.
00:56:56 --> 00:57:01 He's a former special agent who's now serving as a county sheriff and knows
00:57:01 --> 00:57:02 a lot about law enforcement.
00:57:02 --> 00:57:07 But in no way does his his professional record show that he's even willing.
00:57:07 --> 00:57:11 I know his department, he has terminated people who crossed the line.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:16 It just doesn't stand for it. He's pushing for an effort to have something like
00:57:16 --> 00:57:17 a national clearinghouse.
00:57:17 --> 00:57:21 So what happens in these instances, what we don't know is with qualified immunity.
00:57:22 --> 00:57:27 Less than 2% of officers involved in deadly force cases are ever charged.
00:57:27 --> 00:57:31 But one in 10 officers have a complaint about aggressive behavior.
00:57:31 --> 00:57:35 And so if you think about those numbers and just the distinction of why aren't
00:57:35 --> 00:57:36 we holding officers accountable?
00:57:36 --> 00:57:39 You're trained to hold a gun. You're trained to know what's on that belt.
00:57:39 --> 00:57:43 I know you said that you had policing background. And, you know,
00:57:43 --> 00:57:46 I kind of smiled because I was Navy police at one point, even though no one
00:57:46 --> 00:57:48 ever believes me. I don't know.
00:57:48 --> 00:57:52 Maybe the shoes kind of makes people doubt me a little bit. But I definitely
00:57:52 --> 00:57:54 served as military police at one point in my life.
00:57:54 --> 00:57:58 And what I do know is that you're trying to know what's on your belt with your eyes closed.
00:57:58 --> 00:58:02 You know where that taser is. You know where that baton is. You know where your weapon is.
00:58:02 --> 00:58:08 That safety is supposed to be on. So I honestly don't, I know that things can
00:58:08 --> 00:58:13 happen in milliseconds, but if you are willing to put out that gun,
00:58:13 --> 00:58:16 one of the things the Navy taught us was you don't point that gun at anything
00:58:16 --> 00:58:17 you don't intend to shoot.
00:58:17 --> 00:58:22 But if you point it, I assume you know that you are willing to shoot it.
00:58:22 --> 00:58:25 And I think that that happens way too often without professional liability.
00:58:26 --> 00:58:29 When there's malpractice, both in legal and legal,
00:58:29 --> 00:58:33 healthcare fields, they're held responsible. There's insurance for that.
00:58:33 --> 00:58:36 So why aren't we holding our officers who we put a uniform, a badge,
00:58:36 --> 00:58:42 and a gun on to police us and not like a Gestapo style, but to protect us, right?
00:58:42 --> 00:58:46 You know, I haven't had a terrible incident with a police officer myself.
00:58:46 --> 00:58:50 I flat some down because I had a flat tire, but that's because the expectation
00:58:50 --> 00:58:52 to protect and serve is there.
00:58:52 --> 00:58:54 If I trust you to protect me, I expect that.
00:58:55 --> 00:58:59 Don't shoot me when my hands are up or, you know, kill our neighbors or people,
00:58:59 --> 00:59:01 and you just get to walk away free.
00:59:01 --> 00:59:06 What happens is qualified immunity will allow officers to resign.
00:59:07 --> 00:59:10 Sometimes, depending on your rank, you get to keep your retirement,
00:59:10 --> 00:59:16 and you literally can hop over to another agency or another county and just
00:59:16 --> 00:59:17 get another job with a Scott clean record.
00:59:18 --> 00:59:23 And I just disagree that if we know that that exists, if you're terrified and
00:59:23 --> 00:59:27 too scared to police a community, maybe that's not the job for you.
00:59:27 --> 00:59:34 So either make our precincts and training more dedicated to saving and protecting
00:59:34 --> 00:59:38 life, or just learn how to police us. I think it works both ways.
00:59:38 --> 00:59:43 Now, Lustitia Aequalis is definitely not promoting aggressive behaviors to officers,
00:59:43 --> 00:59:47 but we also don't want officers thinking, and it's funny because I actually
00:59:47 --> 00:59:52 have a posting on our website or on our social media, a sergeant with 19 years
00:59:52 --> 00:59:54 could not recite the Miranda rights.
00:59:55 --> 00:59:59 19 years. We can memorize a song in a day, right?
01:00:00 --> 01:00:07 There's no excuse for that. And I think that the ability to just let that happen, it astounds me.
01:00:07 --> 01:00:11 Because if you and I professionally can't recite something after almost two
01:00:11 --> 01:00:14 decades that we're supposed to professionally know at the back of our hand,
01:00:14 --> 01:00:16 that's got to be looked at as a problem.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:19 She was promoted to a sergeant at the time of her deposition.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:24 I just don't understand that. I think that there's entitlement to that and even
01:00:24 --> 01:00:27 issues where we're actively looking at,
01:00:28 --> 01:00:36 Some unfortunate cases where higher levels of police officers really have different experiences.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:40 An officer who does blow the whistle gets fired for it.
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 And then you've got officers who are literally caught on camera saying,
01:00:45 --> 01:00:48 you know, I've killed a few people in my time, but if you do it,
01:00:48 --> 01:00:50 don't worry, I'll cover for you. But how is that OK?
01:00:51 --> 01:00:54 That's not OK. I think that if we have the expectation that that is going to
01:00:54 --> 01:00:59 be pursued, we're tracking you like you track our credit, right?
01:01:00 --> 01:01:04 We can't not pay our bills and, you know, Equifax doesn't know about it.
01:01:04 --> 01:01:09 And so I think that those same things should apply. So, Lustitia Aequalis is
01:01:09 --> 01:01:12 designed to start conversations, to get you involved.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:18 And even if you only remember one thing, I want you to know what applies to
01:01:18 --> 01:01:21 you wherever you go, wherever you live, work, and travel.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:25 So, a lot of my friends are like, oh, I'm just going to move countries and I
01:01:25 --> 01:01:26 won't have this problem anymore.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:29 Like, that's not true. Other countries have the exact same issues.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:34 We do have a little spot on our website dedicated to if you go to this country,
01:01:34 --> 01:01:38 you may not have the right to remain silent the way you think you do.
01:01:38 --> 01:01:42 And so let's have those conversations ahead of time so that you're not caught unaware.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:47 We want to be able to have this app and develop it in later times or in more
01:01:47 --> 01:01:50 advanced ways to protect you. That's really the point.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:57 Yeah. And yeah, I've had a lady on and one of the things she does is help people
01:01:57 --> 01:01:59 expatriate from the United States.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:04 And she just put out an article saying, don't move to Portugal or Spain.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:07 And I was like, okay, I got to read that.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:12 Find out what she done found out about that. That goes to your point that,
01:02:12 --> 01:02:18 you know, America has an incredible amount of freedoms, but I'm a big Marvel comic dude.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:22 And I just remember with great power comes great responsibility, right?
01:02:23 --> 01:02:27 And so our rights are our power. And to get to the point about the training.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:32 So it's like, you're exactly right. You know, you've had military training.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:34 I've had law enforcement training.
01:02:34 --> 01:02:42 We go through exercises to create stress so that when we are in a moment of
01:02:42 --> 01:02:49 stress, we automatically do something as opposed to panicking and trying to figure out what to do.
01:02:49 --> 01:02:55 And, you know, you would think that, you know, people that go through that training,
01:02:55 --> 01:02:58 you know, they retain it.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:03 You know what I'm saying? But the reality is in law enforcement is that if they
01:03:03 --> 01:03:09 don't have programs to retrain you on things, which most law enforcement agencies
01:03:09 --> 01:03:12 are starting to do now, then people get lapsed.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:18 And then the other thing I've always pushed for is that I believe that every
01:03:18 --> 01:03:22 four months you need to go through a psychological review.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:30 I think that I think that especially if you're in a high crime precinct one
01:03:30 --> 01:03:33 I think you should transfer out that precinct after you've done a few months
01:03:33 --> 01:03:38 you know and go somewhere else so you can kind of get a feel because I believe
01:03:38 --> 01:03:41 that I just believe in people being able to do everything.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:45 Right and if you if you've been in
01:03:45 --> 01:03:48 a precinct that's been high crime then maybe you need to
01:03:48 --> 01:03:52 go to another precinct where the crime's not that high or maybe
01:03:52 --> 01:03:55 worse it all depends on your skill level it's like okay well we're gonna put
01:03:55 --> 01:03:59 you in here and then you know when you go somewhere else you know but just get
01:03:59 --> 01:04:03 you so you'll be in a different environment you know kind of get your mind refreshed
01:04:03 --> 01:04:09 but i think you need to have you know you need to go through counseling because you never know.
01:04:09 --> 01:04:15 I mean, I've seen, you know, a dead person in an accident. Right? Mm-hmm.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:20 I wasn't in law enforcement at the time, but I had to attend a funeral for a
01:04:20 --> 01:04:23 baby that was dumped in a landfill.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:28 And I can only imagine in talking to the officers, you know,
01:04:28 --> 01:04:29 they told me how they felt.
01:04:29 --> 01:04:32 But, you know, sometimes words can't articulate that.
01:04:33 --> 01:04:38 And how does that translate to your job from that point forward? Right.
01:04:38 --> 01:04:42 So you need to have some you need to have somebody to talk to.
01:04:42 --> 01:04:46 And that would eliminate a lot of stuff because the one case,
01:04:47 --> 01:04:52 and then we'll go on to something else, but the one case that always bothered
01:04:52 --> 01:04:56 me out of all this stuff, I mean, George Floyd was horrific and Mike Brown was
01:04:56 --> 01:05:01 horrific and Sandra Bland was horrific and Breonna Taylor,
01:05:01 --> 01:05:08 but Philando Castile bothers me more than anyone because the brother was telling
01:05:08 --> 01:05:13 the officer, I have a gun, I have a gun permit. I'm letting you know that.
01:05:13 --> 01:05:18 And when you see the film and you see the officers got the gun drawn and that
01:05:18 --> 01:05:23 hand is shaking, the thing that pisses me off is that no other officer said,
01:05:24 --> 01:05:25 hey, stand down. I got him.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:29 You just step back. I got him. Because you can do that as officers.
01:05:29 --> 01:05:32 It's like, I got him, you know, because you're a backup. So it's like,
01:05:33 --> 01:05:34 hey, I got him. Stand down.
01:05:35 --> 01:05:37 Had one of those officers done that, if you see that officer,
01:05:38 --> 01:05:41 and he got acquitted, by the way. But if you can see that officer,
01:05:41 --> 01:05:44 he is shaking with that gun.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:49 I mean, he is, you could, I mean, visibly like nervous. And I'm like,
01:05:50 --> 01:05:52 that's a bad situation waiting to happen.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:54 And nobody stepped in.
01:05:55 --> 01:06:00 To alleviate that. That's the one that shakes me. The other one that shakes
01:06:00 --> 01:06:02 me up is Alton Sterling because that was just brutal.
01:06:03 --> 01:06:07 You know, you, you, you, you've got the man pinned down on the ground and then
01:06:07 --> 01:06:10 you shoot him at point. You've got his arms pinned down.
01:06:10 --> 01:06:16 How is he going to hurt you? And you shoot him at point blank range while you're straddling him. Right.
01:06:16 --> 01:06:20 You know, and then they wondered why things happened in Baton Rouge the way they did.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:27 So I hope that the app, is an effective tool.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:34 I think that the body cameras, you know, what we were trained is that the body
01:06:34 --> 01:06:38 cameras are there to protect us when we're in law enforcement.
01:06:38 --> 01:06:42 Because it's like, whatever we write down on that paper needs to match what
01:06:42 --> 01:06:44 shows up on that screen. Right.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:49 And so, you know, it's like, that's why they tell you, you've got to be able
01:06:49 --> 01:06:52 to write a report and you've got to be able to remember what's going on.
01:06:52 --> 01:06:56 And I know things kind of happen fast and all this stuff.
01:06:56 --> 01:07:00 But that's why you go through the training, because it was like we would have
01:07:00 --> 01:07:04 our last week of training was basically Survivors Week is what we called it.
01:07:04 --> 01:07:06 Some people call it Hell Week, whatever.
01:07:06 --> 01:07:09 But it's like all we're doing is dealing with situations.
01:07:10 --> 01:07:16 Right. And then we got to give a report about what we did, right? Or what happened.
01:07:16 --> 01:07:22 Of course, we if we make mistakes, we get told right then what our mistake was.
01:07:22 --> 01:07:26 But then we got to write to report like we did it the right way.
01:07:26 --> 01:07:30 And, you know, so it just gets you into that mindset. It's like,
01:07:30 --> 01:07:31 okay, as soon as you do this, boom.
01:07:31 --> 01:07:35 And it's like, I know as an officer, it sucks at three o'clock in the morning
01:07:35 --> 01:07:38 to be trying to find a judge to get a warrant for an arrest.
01:07:38 --> 01:07:43 I get all that. But it's like, you signed up for that job and you need to be accountable for it.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:48 And I hope that your work helps in increasing that accountability.
01:07:48 --> 01:07:52 All right. That's my speech for today. Well, at least for this interview.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:58 So let's move on to something else. Talk to the listeners about your work with
01:07:58 --> 01:08:00 ATM Grant Writing and Consulting.
01:08:01 --> 01:08:04 You know, I, oh, that's really funny. You shift gears like that.
01:08:04 --> 01:08:05 That was kind of a knee jerk.
01:08:07 --> 01:08:12 I completely enjoy fundraising and grant writing.
01:08:12 --> 01:08:17 I could win the lottery today and I'd probably still do it. It brings me peace.
01:08:17 --> 01:08:19 People like me when we win.
01:08:20 --> 01:08:25 And I think even more importantly than that, you know, the first grant I ever
01:08:25 --> 01:08:29 wrote, I'm reluctantly going to say I actually cried.
01:08:29 --> 01:08:34 I was freshly out of the military, and my first job out of the military was,
01:08:34 --> 01:08:37 shout out to Clayton County State and Superior Court Administration.
01:08:37 --> 01:08:41 And because I had an English degree, they just thought, oh, we got a grant we
01:08:41 --> 01:08:43 want to apply for. Here you go.
01:08:43 --> 01:08:46 And I remember crying about it after reading the solicitation,
01:08:46 --> 01:08:48 like, I don't know what I'm doing.
01:08:48 --> 01:08:51 They're going to fire me. I'm going to have to find another job or worse,
01:08:52 --> 01:08:53 put on combat boots and go back
01:08:53 --> 01:08:55 to the military, which is something at the time I just didn't want to do.
01:08:57 --> 01:09:01 And I think after researching writing
01:09:01 --> 01:09:04 and rewriting it reminded me of
01:09:04 --> 01:09:09 something not different than writing a term paper and I enjoyed it I even enjoyed
01:09:09 --> 01:09:12 the the award letter even more I think at the time it was probably only like
01:09:12 --> 01:09:16 three hundred thousand dollars but to me that was a lot of money to start this
01:09:16 --> 01:09:22 program and what I learned just about the process of grant writing.
01:09:23 --> 01:09:26 Getting the partnership and getting funding for these programs,
01:09:26 --> 01:09:30 they're so important just because of who they impact.
01:09:31 --> 01:09:33 And, you know, I didn't have...
01:09:34 --> 01:09:40 I was I was I was good enough to get the grant, but we didn't have anybody hired to start it.
01:09:40 --> 01:09:45 So as soon as we got it, I kind of had to put on another hat like, well, here we go.
01:09:45 --> 01:09:47 County employment, putting on another hat.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:51 And so I actually got to run the program for a little while.
01:09:51 --> 01:09:58 And, you know, leaving the law library and walking over to the judge and then
01:09:58 --> 01:10:01 leaving the judge's chambers to go over to the jail.
01:10:02 --> 01:10:07 Astronomically changed my life. I certainly grew up with a loved two-parent
01:10:07 --> 01:10:13 household. And so I remember thinking, I'm not going to get this grant because nobody uses drugs.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:17 Like this isn't even life. Nobody actually uses drugs. We all had that just
01:10:17 --> 01:10:18 say no program. This isn't even life.
01:10:18 --> 01:10:25 But when I walked onto the other side, I learned people do use drugs for various reasons.
01:10:25 --> 01:10:29 Sometimes they are people in the military who have served and have problems coping.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:33 Sometimes that's just how they were raised. And it's not anything different
01:10:33 --> 01:10:38 than, you know, how to put on a pair of stockings, pantyhose if you're from the South, right?
01:10:38 --> 01:10:44 But I think that it really opened my eyes to other parts of life because when
01:10:44 --> 01:10:45 people have addictions,
01:10:46 --> 01:10:51 well, it definitely impacts a financial level of the family,
01:10:51 --> 01:10:57 but there were people who in a year's time, once they were enrolled in the program,
01:10:57 --> 01:10:59 they were able to get a job.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:05 And even if they lost their license, they were happy to get a bicycle,
01:11:05 --> 01:11:10 to ride to work, and to get an apartment, and in a lot of cases,
01:11:10 --> 01:11:12 get their children back.
01:11:12 --> 01:11:20 And so when you see those impacts, or you see a mother who is able to give birth to a healthy baby.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:26 It can change your life. And these people are, they're part of our community, right?
01:11:26 --> 01:11:29 They can live down the street. They can live two communities over.
01:11:29 --> 01:11:34 They're still part of your community. They are fighting a battle you have never seen.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:41 And so where my biggest problems in life probably seem so small compared to them.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:46 And it just, it really gives you a respect for how hard people get up and fight.
01:11:46 --> 01:11:50 And if all I have to do is write a grant, that's not asking much.
01:11:50 --> 01:11:54 I look at it as, you know, God didn't give me the talent to sing.
01:11:55 --> 01:12:00 So I'm certainly no Beyonce, but I can flick my pen and we can change a few
01:12:00 --> 01:12:02 things for people that I probably would never meet.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:07 And so it's something that I'm really proud of. I actually started that nonprofit
01:12:07 --> 01:12:11 because I do enjoy fundraising for other programs because I realize that no
01:12:11 --> 01:12:15 program operates on its own, right?
01:12:15 --> 01:12:21 So if you have a program catered to the court system, you also have healthy
01:12:21 --> 01:12:23 communities, have healthy families, because guess what?
01:12:23 --> 01:12:27 If people are employed and thriving, they're also not breaking into your house.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:31 So those numbers really compound into other areas. And I think that is something
01:12:31 --> 01:12:37 to be very cognizant of and something that, you know, especially given this
01:12:37 --> 01:12:42 administration, our social programs are not a waste of money. It's not a handout.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:47 This is where policy and fundraising and just social good work,
01:12:47 --> 01:12:49 we aren't just protecting people.
01:12:49 --> 01:12:53 We're really documenting those injustices and funneling it into reform,
01:12:53 --> 01:12:58 reform that is needed because we still want to wake up and we want to have healthy lives every day.
01:12:58 --> 01:13:02 And we don't want to have to worry about someone not being able to make it because
01:13:02 --> 01:13:05 that's really, that's what cripples us as communities.
01:13:05 --> 01:13:12 And our communities are, I often see in grant writing, people can afford to
01:13:12 --> 01:13:16 live in one community, but they can't work there.
01:13:16 --> 01:13:19 Or communities where people can work, they can't afford to live there.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:21 And that's something we really need to change.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:26 And I hope through the development of this app and later versions that we want
01:13:26 --> 01:13:30 to direct this to public policy has really entered the digital age, right?
01:13:30 --> 01:13:33 And I just think that our protections have to evolve as well.
01:13:33 --> 01:13:37 So just some things to think about. But I absolutely love grant writing.
01:13:37 --> 01:13:42 And even when I don't win, I certainly learn something about the organizations that serve.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:47 And, you know, I've had contracts and certain employments.
01:13:47 --> 01:13:51 And every time I leave, there's still really good projects and organizations.
01:13:51 --> 01:13:54 I fully support them. They could call me now and say, we really want a grant.
01:13:54 --> 01:13:59 And I promised I'd open up my laptop and see what we can do together. So it's fulfilling.
01:13:59 --> 01:14:03 So what's the biggest challenge that you face when you help nonprofits?
01:14:05 --> 01:14:10 April work. You must file your taxes.
01:14:11 --> 01:14:17 You must have a digital footprint. And I only laugh because it's always very
01:14:17 --> 01:14:20 sexy to say, oh, we got this partnership and we won.
01:14:20 --> 01:14:24 But you have to show what you've done with that funding.
01:14:25 --> 01:14:30 It's almost like you're asking for support. You got to make your funders look
01:14:30 --> 01:14:32 good. So you got to make them part of the process.
01:14:33 --> 01:14:37 And so, you know, I've had churches come to me and say, oh, we've got this grant
01:14:37 --> 01:14:39 we want to do to rebuild the church.
01:14:40 --> 01:14:42 And I found their taxes in like five years.
01:14:43 --> 01:14:46 You got to help me to help you. That's how it works.
01:14:46 --> 01:14:50 And so even if it's just small things, those investments are well worth it because
01:14:50 --> 01:14:53 you got to show people that you're serious about your programs.
01:14:53 --> 01:14:56 You're serious about who you serve and you're serious about continuity because
01:14:56 --> 01:15:00 no one's going to fund you if you're going to be out of operation in the next year or so, right?
01:15:01 --> 01:15:05 So build your partnerships, file your paperwork, be very dedicated.
01:15:05 --> 01:15:11 Even if you're making a 1% improvement every day, you're improving for someone
01:15:11 --> 01:15:12 who couldn't do it for themselves.
01:15:12 --> 01:15:15 And that's why we exist. That's why we're here.
01:15:16 --> 01:15:22 Excuse me. So, all right. So let's close it out with this question.
01:15:22 --> 01:15:28 Sure. When people describe the legacy of Ashley T. Martin, what will you hope that they say?
01:15:29 --> 01:15:37 Oh, oh, that's a good question. I would hope that they say that they felt heard when they talked to me.
01:15:38 --> 01:15:42 I would hope that they say, you know, even if she demands that,
01:15:43 --> 01:15:46 you know, your sentence has bad syntax and there's a reason to write it my way,
01:15:46 --> 01:15:47 just write it my way, right?
01:15:47 --> 01:15:53 I would hope that they know that there's a lot of passion behind helping you fulfill your mission.
01:15:54 --> 01:15:58 There's a lot of passion behind leaving a legacy for somebody else,
01:15:58 --> 01:16:00 even if they've never met you.
01:16:00 --> 01:16:05 I always like to think when I go home to Georgia that someone in that drug court
01:16:05 --> 01:16:06 program, it never fails me.
01:16:06 --> 01:16:09 I always see somebody and they're like, hey, Miss Ashley.
01:16:09 --> 01:16:13 And it's always a greeting, but they're always so glad. They were mad at me
01:16:13 --> 01:16:18 the day that they had to go to the jail or they were mad the day that they had a random drug test.
01:16:19 --> 01:16:24 But looking at how they thrive after, I hope that people know how proud I am
01:16:24 --> 01:16:27 of them for getting up. I hope that people know.
01:16:28 --> 01:16:34 That I understood sometimes a deep breath is your prayer because sometimes words fail us.
01:16:34 --> 01:16:36 I'm good at words and even I'm left speechless from time to time.
01:16:37 --> 01:16:39 So I think that part of, you know,
01:16:39 --> 01:16:44 I don't really think I have a legacy, but I hope that the talent and the patience
01:16:44 --> 01:16:50 that God gave me to write a paper meant something so much more important for somebody else.
01:16:51 --> 01:16:56 Well, Ashley T. Martin, first of all, thank you for coming on the podcast.
01:16:56 --> 01:16:59 The reason why I asked you a couple of those personal questions about legacy
01:16:59 --> 01:17:06 and tenacity, and I wanted to highlight the work that you are doing.
01:17:06 --> 01:17:10 One of the things that I'm really proud of about this podcast is being able
01:17:10 --> 01:17:15 to highlight people that are doing stuff. Not the people you see on the news
01:17:15 --> 01:17:19 every day, but, you know, people are out here trying to make a difference.
01:17:20 --> 01:17:24 And you know your your profile when
01:17:24 --> 01:17:27 i ran across you on linkedin jumped out at me so i said
01:17:27 --> 01:17:29 i got to get this sister on the podcast did not
01:17:29 --> 01:17:34 know that we would develop a relationship that was pretty cool you know but
01:17:34 --> 01:17:41 i'm not surprised because you're that type of sister and so not only am i honored
01:17:41 --> 01:17:47 that you came on the podcast but i'm honored to know you and and i wish you much success,
01:17:48 --> 01:17:51 continue the success with the grant writing, especially with the app,
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54 because we need that. We need that accountability.
01:17:54 --> 01:17:59 So anytime you want to come back on, you have an open invitation to do that.
01:18:00 --> 01:18:04 And if people want to get in touch with you about the app or about your grant
01:18:04 --> 01:18:06 writing services, how can they reach out to you?
01:18:07 --> 01:18:10 Oh, well, one, thank you for everything you've said.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:14 I feel the same about you. You are a light at the end of the tunnel,
01:18:14 --> 01:18:17 like someone cares about what we're doing and they're willing to highlight it.
01:18:17 --> 01:18:23 So thank you. And, you know, I'm sure that we're going to cross paths probably
01:18:23 --> 01:18:26 way more than you even care to. Like, what does she want now?
01:18:26 --> 01:18:30 But I'm certainly reachable. We have social media for Lustitia Aequalis across
01:18:30 --> 01:18:33 Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.
01:18:33 --> 01:18:38 I'm still getting comfortable with the idea of AI videos because I do not like
01:18:38 --> 01:18:40 retaking videos, but I'm going to do my best.
01:18:41 --> 01:18:46 But we certainly have a 1-800 number and with the same with ATM grant writing.
01:18:46 --> 01:18:49 I'm very reachable and the contact is on the websites.
01:18:50 --> 01:18:56 All right. Well, Ashley, again, thank you for doing this and again, much success.
01:18:56 --> 01:19:02 And you're one of those people, if our paths cross, it'll always be a positive
01:19:02 --> 01:19:03 experience. So thank you. Absolutely.
01:19:04 --> 01:19:06 Yes, sir. All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the next one.
01:19:06 --> 01:19:15 Music.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:22 All right. And we are back. So if you've noticed on my show,
01:19:22 --> 01:19:26 I have tried on occasion to,
01:19:26 --> 01:19:33 get feedback or, you know, bring somebody, excuse me, bring somebody on,
01:19:34 --> 01:19:38 that could relate to something that was going on immediately.
01:19:40 --> 01:19:47 Just some inside baseball and stuff i book a lot of my guests like weeks or months in advance.
01:19:48 --> 01:19:51 And i have been very fortunate a lot of times
01:19:51 --> 01:19:56 and basically because of the quality people that i've been able to get on that
01:19:56 --> 01:20:00 a lot of times when they come on there's some relevant stuff going on to the
01:20:00 --> 01:20:05 work that they're doing or at times just right like their books coming out right
01:20:05 --> 01:20:08 about the time that we scheduled the interview or whatever.
01:20:08 --> 01:20:13 So it goes across smooth. But every now and then we run into situations where
01:20:13 --> 01:20:22 something comes up and there's really a dire need to get somebody on the show to offer a perspective.
01:20:23 --> 01:20:27 And so I've tried to do that. You know my friend Rick Roberts,
01:20:27 --> 01:20:31 anytime like we're dealing with economics, he's willing to come on.
01:20:31 --> 01:20:36 Will Cooper's willing to come on. And of course, you know, the law firm of Pearson and Pearson.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:39 They're ready to go. As a matter of fact, we got to get them back on soon.
01:20:40 --> 01:20:46 You know, so I've been very fortunate and I'm very fortunate for Grace to do the weekly news update.
01:20:46 --> 01:20:50 So at least, you know, as you're gauging the time, when did this podcast come
01:20:50 --> 01:20:52 out? You can always listen to news.
01:20:52 --> 01:20:54 It's all, yeah, that came out when all that was going on. Right.
01:20:55 --> 01:21:00 So we get a story and I get an opportunity to get somebody that can kind of
01:21:00 --> 01:21:05 elaborate a little bit about the story. and, you know, bring some context to
01:21:05 --> 01:21:06 it, then I'm going to try to do that.
01:21:06 --> 01:21:09 And I'm working on some right now.
01:21:09 --> 01:21:16 But this next guest that I'm bringing on is, his name is Darius Jones.
01:21:17 --> 01:21:23 And, you know, we've had these two tragic events that have happened within the
01:21:23 --> 01:21:25 Jewish community here in America.
01:21:25 --> 01:21:29 We had a young couple that got killed. And then we had those people that were
01:21:29 --> 01:21:33 burned the following week in Boulder, Colorado.
01:21:34 --> 01:21:40 And, you know, we've been focused on Boulder a lot, thanks to Median and her
01:21:40 --> 01:21:46 crew up there. So, you know, and I wanted Brother Jones to come on the show.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:53 I was in the process of booking him as a guest and then things worked out where
01:21:53 --> 01:21:57 because of the tragedies that happened, he was able to come on sooner.
01:21:57 --> 01:22:04 So that's something I'm going to try to do for you all is to get some people in in a timely manner.
01:22:05 --> 01:22:09 And, you know, I'm not a professional person.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:13 Producer or anything like that, or booking, that's the term,
01:22:13 --> 01:22:14 I guess, booking producer.
01:22:15 --> 01:22:21 I'm not, I'm not a professional at that. So if I can get somebody in that's
01:22:21 --> 01:22:24 dealing with something that's really, really relevant at the time,
01:22:24 --> 01:22:27 and they're not already lined up as a guest during that point,
01:22:27 --> 01:22:29 that's what I'm going to try to do.
01:22:30 --> 01:22:34 And there's some other things I'm going to try to do too. But I just wanted
01:22:34 --> 01:22:37 to share that with you because sometimes y'all be like, man,
01:22:37 --> 01:22:38 how many guests he's going to have on the show.
01:22:39 --> 01:22:42 You know, I want y'all to be as informed as possible.
01:22:43 --> 01:22:47 So, you know, I try not to have more than two or three guests,
01:22:47 --> 01:22:52 but, and then I've got my commentary, but I just wanted to explain that because
01:22:52 --> 01:22:57 I want this show to be as timely and relevant as possible with the issues that are going on.
01:22:58 --> 01:23:01 So with that, it's time to bring on Darius Jones.
01:23:01 --> 01:23:07 Now, Darius Jones is the founder and executive director of the National Black Empowerment Council.
01:23:07 --> 01:23:14 A membership organization whose mission is to close the systemic wealth influence
01:23:14 --> 01:23:20 and achievement gaps between African-Americans and more structurally advantaged groups.
01:23:20 --> 01:23:25 Formerly, Darius served as the deputy national political director for Michael
01:23:25 --> 01:23:28 Bloomberg's 2020 presidential campaign.
01:23:28 --> 01:23:33 He helped develop strategies which enabled Bloomberg to realize a tenfold increase
01:23:33 --> 01:23:38 in his support within the African-American community, earning the endorsements
01:23:38 --> 01:23:40 of hundreds of black elected officials in only a few months.
01:23:41 --> 01:23:46 Prior to the campaign, Darius spent a decade as the National African-American
01:23:46 --> 01:23:52 Constituency Director for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee.
01:23:53 --> 01:23:55 Known to most people as AIPAC.
01:23:56 --> 01:24:03 So, ladies and gentlemen, to address this timely concern that we're having,
01:24:03 --> 01:24:10 it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Darius Jones.
01:24:10 --> 01:24:20 Music.
01:24:21 --> 01:24:25 All right. Darius Jones. How you doing, brother? You doing good?
01:24:25 --> 01:24:31 Hey, thank you for the opportunity to be here today and to chop it up with you
01:24:31 --> 01:24:32 on this important issue.
01:24:32 --> 01:24:34 Well, I'm honored to have you on, brother.
01:24:35 --> 01:24:42 Funny thing. I was trying to get you on as a guest and then your people reached
01:24:42 --> 01:24:43 out to me independently.
01:24:44 --> 01:24:50 And considering all the stuff that's been going on, we were able to expedite getting you on here.
01:24:51 --> 01:24:55 So my grandma would say, look at God.
01:24:56 --> 01:24:59 That's right. Look at God. Look at how things come together.
01:25:00 --> 01:25:03 That's right. So I'm glad I'm glad it did come together.
01:25:03 --> 01:25:09 So, look, normally what I do is I start off the conversation with some icebreakers.
01:25:10 --> 01:25:12 So there's two segments. One,
01:25:13 --> 01:25:16 I throw a quote at you, and then one is the thing we call 20 questions.
01:25:16 --> 01:25:20 So the first thing is the quote.
01:25:20 --> 01:25:23 Jews cannot fight anti-Semitism alone.
01:25:24 --> 01:25:28 The victim cannot cure the crime. The hated cannot cure the hate.
01:25:29 --> 01:25:33 It would be the greatest mistake for Jews to believe that they can fight it alone.
01:25:33 --> 01:25:39 The only people who can successfully combat anti-Semitism are those active in
01:25:39 --> 01:25:43 the cultures that harbor it. What's your thought about that quote?
01:25:44 --> 01:25:49 Brother, I agree with that 100%, man. Say the strength of the wolf is in the pack.
01:25:49 --> 01:25:54 And I also have always been a firm believer that God doesn't give any one group
01:25:54 --> 01:25:57 or any individual a monopoly on wisdom.
01:25:58 --> 01:26:03 It's when we all come together and really collaborate and recognize the power
01:26:03 --> 01:26:08 in our interdependence that we can really force multiply our efforts, man.
01:26:08 --> 01:26:14 And I have long believe that in having this relationship with the Jewish community
01:26:14 --> 01:26:17 and trying to further the bonds between,
01:26:17 --> 01:26:22 deepen the bonds between our two communities, that it is vitally necessary to
01:26:22 --> 01:26:26 have leaders who are able to go within their respective communities,
01:26:26 --> 01:26:31 be seen as highly credible individuals within those communities,
01:26:31 --> 01:26:41 and then are also unapologetic and compelling and articulating to their group
01:26:41 --> 01:26:50 the positions or the challenges or the outright discrimination that another group is facing.
01:26:50 --> 01:26:52 Sometimes you need cultural translators
01:26:52 --> 01:26:58 in order to make an issue resonate within a different community.
01:26:58 --> 01:27:01 And that's something that, you know, I've been involved in that work for a while.
01:27:01 --> 01:27:05 And I'm fortunate and blessed to have friends in the Jewish community who do
01:27:05 --> 01:27:11 the same thing in the Jewish community in terms of helping folks over there
01:27:11 --> 01:27:15 better understand issues of critical importance to the black community as well.
01:27:15 --> 01:27:20 So we stood together before we came together and fundamentally changed this
01:27:20 --> 01:27:21 nation during the civil rights movement.
01:27:22 --> 01:27:26 I think we face similar threats now and it's just as necessary and it's just
01:27:26 --> 01:27:29 as incumbent upon us to stand together and join in this fight again.
01:27:30 --> 01:27:34 Yeah, and I'm gonna put a pin in that Cause I've got a question dealing directly
01:27:34 --> 01:27:37 with what you just said at the end.
01:27:37 --> 01:27:40 So 20 questions, give me a number between one and 20.
01:27:41 --> 01:27:43 17. All right.
01:27:43 --> 01:27:50 What's something about people who see the world differently than you that you've come to appreciate?
01:27:52 --> 01:27:57 Their perspective. There's one reality happening at any given moment,
01:27:57 --> 01:28:03 but there are multiple interpretations because we are all looking upon the same circumstances.
01:28:03 --> 01:28:08 But based on, you know, our background, how we've been conditioned,
01:28:09 --> 01:28:15 our life experience, we can see similar things through a different lens.
01:28:15 --> 01:28:23 And I've never been one to be entirely just wedded to a worldview to the degree
01:28:23 --> 01:28:30 to which I'm not willing to entertain and to have my ideas broadened by other
01:28:30 --> 01:28:31 people's perspectives.
01:28:31 --> 01:28:37 I might not necessarily change my position, but I will still be appreciative
01:28:37 --> 01:28:40 of hearing another person's perspective on these issues.
01:28:41 --> 01:28:47 Again, to my original point, nobody has a monopoly on wisdom and everyone can be our teacher. Yeah.
01:28:48 --> 01:28:53 So unfortunately, my brother, you've been in a high demand due to recent tragedies
01:28:53 --> 01:28:55 that have rocked the Jewish community in America.
01:28:56 --> 01:29:02 First, there was the murder of the young couple, Yaron Lechinsky and Sarah Lynn
01:29:02 --> 01:29:06 Milgram, in front of the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C.
01:29:06 --> 01:29:11 Yes. Then the following week in Boulder, Colorado, a man attacked and burned
01:29:11 --> 01:29:16 15 victims who were attending a march in support of the remaining Israeli hostages
01:29:16 --> 01:29:18 in the current Israeli Hamas conflict.
01:29:19 --> 01:29:24 Both attackers shouted, free Palestine, while being detained by authorities.
01:29:25 --> 01:29:30 So I have several questions. First one, USA Today asked, is anyone listening
01:29:30 --> 01:29:34 to the fears of Jewish Americans? What do you think?
01:29:35 --> 01:29:41 I think that there are people listening, but not to the degree to which the
01:29:41 --> 01:29:43 urgency of the situation would demand.
01:29:44 --> 01:29:49 And I think that that is very unfortunate. I think that in a lot of communities
01:29:49 --> 01:29:54 outside of the Jewish community, there's the perception that the Jewish community
01:29:54 --> 01:29:56 is extraordinarily powerful.
01:29:57 --> 01:29:59 Extraordinarily well-resourced.
01:30:00 --> 01:30:04 And because people are wedded to that idea, it's very difficult for them to
01:30:04 --> 01:30:08 be able to understand and appreciate the vulnerability that the Jewish community
01:30:08 --> 01:30:13 actually faces. I mean, it's only 15 million Jews in the world.
01:30:13 --> 01:30:19 And just a little over 80 years ago, 6 million of them were exterminated by the Nazis.
01:30:20 --> 01:30:25 It's very difficult to have had that history, to have had the current numbers
01:30:25 --> 01:30:29 of co-religionists in the world of 8 billion people.
01:30:30 --> 01:30:34 And to hear constant threats coming from many different quarters, it's interesting.
01:30:34 --> 01:30:38 Like, as African-Americans, if we were, like, Eric, me and you were ever getting
01:30:38 --> 01:30:43 ready to be encountered by some folks who didn't like us, and we were standing
01:30:43 --> 01:30:46 in an alley, we could turn our back to the wall and basically recognize anybody
01:30:46 --> 01:30:49 that's not really checking for us is coming from the right.
01:30:49 --> 01:30:52 All right? We know who to look for. All right?
01:30:53 --> 01:30:57 Jewish community is unique in America in that they have people coming from them,
01:30:57 --> 01:31:00 from the right and from the left.
01:31:00 --> 01:31:08 And I really deeply empathize with what it feels like to be just under that
01:31:08 --> 01:31:15 level of constant threat and to then have people who you would hope and expect
01:31:15 --> 01:31:18 to be able to understand your vulnerability.
01:31:18 --> 01:31:25 Just be absolutely unwilling to even entertain the notion of it because they're
01:31:25 --> 01:31:33 so convinced that you are just this invulnerable bastion of global power based, unfortunately,
01:31:34 --> 01:31:36 on anti-Semitic tropes.
01:31:36 --> 01:31:40 Yeah. Well, you know, from my experience being in the legislature,
01:31:41 --> 01:31:44 brother, it's like you get some attacks as being Black from the left, too.
01:31:44 --> 01:31:47 I used to tell people all the time. You do, but I mean, it's,
01:31:47 --> 01:31:51 it's, you pretty much know who those folks are and you kind of,
01:31:51 --> 01:31:53 you know, mitigate against that.
01:31:53 --> 01:31:55 It's not all encompassing.
01:31:56 --> 01:32:01 Yeah, no, no, I, I, I, I get your point, but I just, I, I used to remind folks all the time.
01:32:01 --> 01:32:03 I said there were the white Republicans, the white Democrats,
01:32:04 --> 01:32:05 and then there was us, you know what I'm saying?
01:32:06 --> 01:32:10 And we had, we had to make coalitions wherever we made coalitions.
01:32:10 --> 01:32:12 You have to make coalitions. Wherever you can make coalitions, you're absolutely.
01:32:12 --> 01:32:17 But then imagine if your coalition partners are now like, nah,
01:32:17 --> 01:32:18 I'm not with you on this one.
01:32:19 --> 01:32:22 That then a very difficult position to occupy.
01:32:22 --> 01:32:27 That's right. So the next question is, do you think the acts of these lone wolves
01:32:27 --> 01:32:31 condemn or diminish the arguments of those who are concerned?
01:32:32 --> 01:32:36 About the deaths of Palestinian civilians, and does it further strain relations
01:32:36 --> 01:32:40 between Palestinian Americans and Jewish Americans?
01:32:41 --> 01:32:48 Yeah, I do. I mean, you think about when we've had situations in our history, even think about Dr.
01:32:48 --> 01:32:53 King during the Civil Rights Movement. We were committed to nonviolent social disobedience.
01:32:53 --> 01:32:57 And you had to know that every time Dr. King led a march,
01:32:57 --> 01:33:02 he had a deep-seated fear that there would be either agent provocateurs or that
01:33:02 --> 01:33:05 there would be people who didn't share his philosophy,
01:33:05 --> 01:33:12 who would use his marches as an opportunity to while out and then further delegitimize
01:33:12 --> 01:33:16 our claims and alienate potential allies.
01:33:16 --> 01:33:22 And, you know, while there might not be anybody within that movement that will
01:33:22 --> 01:33:23 come out and publicly say that,
01:33:24 --> 01:33:28 anyone in leadership, regardless of the position that you hold or the stance
01:33:28 --> 01:33:33 that you take, you have to realize that when people do those kind of egregious
01:33:33 --> 01:33:35 actions, it sends you back.
01:33:35 --> 01:33:40 But amongst the people in the middle who are trying to look at it objectively
01:33:40 --> 01:33:45 and make a decision about which way they want to go, there's never any justification
01:33:45 --> 01:33:48 for that type of violence.
01:33:49 --> 01:33:52 And I think that they do their movement differently.
01:33:53 --> 01:33:56 A tremendous, tremendous disservice. Yeah.
01:33:57 --> 01:34:00 All right. So third, and you were kind of touching on it when you were answering
01:34:00 --> 01:34:05 the quote, why should Black Americans care about what is happening to Jewish
01:34:05 --> 01:34:08 or Palestinian Americans during this unsettling time?
01:34:09 --> 01:34:14 Well, I would say particularly as it relates to anti-Semitism is that it's not just a Jewish problem.
01:34:14 --> 01:34:18 It tends to be a societal red flag. Okay.
01:34:18 --> 01:34:26 What begins with them historically tends not to end there. They're kind of like the warm-up act.
01:34:27 --> 01:34:30 And in all of my 54 years, when I've heard people,
01:34:31 --> 01:34:35 you know, racist, anti-white supremacists, talk about our people,
01:34:36 --> 01:34:40 I have never really heard anyone say, you know, I hate Jews,
01:34:41 --> 01:34:43 but man, I love Black people.
01:34:43 --> 01:34:47 Yeah, we tend to be a package deal, man.
01:34:47 --> 01:34:50 You know, when you hear somebody start and their rhetoric begins to go in that
01:34:50 --> 01:34:54 direction, You know that if you let them talk long enough, they're coming our direction.
01:34:55 --> 01:35:01 So my thing is, I don't really understand how we as black people can kind of
01:35:01 --> 01:35:05 turn a blind eye when we see that happening,
01:35:05 --> 01:35:10 because we understand human nature and we understand history.
01:35:10 --> 01:35:16 And then more specifically, if you think about our time as Americans.
01:35:17 --> 01:35:19 Black people, we've been there since 16, 19.
01:35:20 --> 01:35:23 During that period, you know, we really haven't had a lot of people who've made
01:35:23 --> 01:35:27 any effort whatsoever to try to stand with us and be our allies.
01:35:28 --> 01:35:34 But if there is one group that you can look at and see on numerous occasions
01:35:34 --> 01:35:38 throughout history that have stood in the breach with us,
01:35:39 --> 01:35:43 It has been the Jewish community. And just the notion of having a group stand
01:35:43 --> 01:35:46 with you in your times of trial.
01:35:46 --> 01:35:50 I mean, think about how society has advanced now since the civil rights movement.
01:35:51 --> 01:35:55 I had successful black entrepreneurs, successful black podcasters.
01:35:55 --> 01:35:57 I had a black president of the United States.
01:35:57 --> 01:36:05 I mean, the yoke of white supremacy and Jim Crow and all the things which held us down.
01:36:05 --> 01:36:08 We came together with the Jewish community, broke that yoke.
01:36:08 --> 01:36:11 And now we live in a fundamentally different reality.
01:36:11 --> 01:36:16 And then to just stand in the positions that we hold now and then to look to
01:36:16 --> 01:36:19 the side and see somebody who's been with us in the trenches,
01:36:19 --> 01:36:26 really going through it and to be indifferent or to be nonchalant or even worse,
01:36:26 --> 01:36:31 to kind of be indignant in trying to justify why it's necessary for them to
01:36:31 --> 01:36:32 be alienated in that way.
01:36:33 --> 01:36:37 I mean, that's objectionable to me, man. It's like not honoring the code And
01:36:37 --> 01:36:41 the code is you stand with those who stood with you.
01:36:41 --> 01:36:43 And I hate to see it happening.
01:36:44 --> 01:36:51 Yeah. So that kind of leads into my next question. Okay. You worked for AIPAC for eight years.
01:36:52 --> 01:36:56 Your primary responsibility was to build coalition between the black community
01:36:56 --> 01:36:58 and the Jewish community.
01:36:58 --> 01:37:06 Now, in 2024, AIPAC targeted several black members of Congress and successfully defeated two of them.
01:37:06 --> 01:37:09 Should a single issue group
01:37:09 --> 01:37:12 that seeks community with black folks go so
01:37:12 --> 01:37:16 aggressively against black leaders now before you answer let me do the disclaimer
01:37:16 --> 01:37:23 uh brother jones was no longer working with aipac in 2024 he had been gone for
01:37:23 --> 01:37:28 a minute so he wasn't part of that decision making process but as somebody that
01:37:28 --> 01:37:32 has worked for an organization kind of kind of,
01:37:32 --> 01:37:35 answer that question the best way that you can.
01:37:36 --> 01:37:42 Sure. So, you know, you mentioned the fact that there were two Congressional
01:37:42 --> 01:37:48 Black Caucus members that AIPAC mobilized against in their primary races.
01:37:48 --> 01:37:50 And you're absolutely right.
01:37:50 --> 01:37:58 And in addition to that, there were probably 52 Congressional Black Caucus members that AIPAC supported,
01:37:58 --> 01:38:05 that the Jewish community raised critical funds to help those folks maintain their offices.
01:38:06 --> 01:38:13 AIPAC is no different than any organization which has a particular point of
01:38:13 --> 01:38:18 view that they want to see advanced in Congress.
01:38:18 --> 01:38:23 I mean, our major organizations, NAACP, National Urban League,
01:38:23 --> 01:38:25 they take positions on critical issues.
01:38:25 --> 01:38:28 And if you were to have somebody from a different community say,
01:38:29 --> 01:38:34 oh, absolutely not. Like everything that you stand for, I stand in complete
01:38:34 --> 01:38:36 and total opposition to that.
01:38:36 --> 01:38:43 In a representative democracy, people organize themselves and they try to unseat
01:38:43 --> 01:38:48 those particular individuals. That is the nature of politics in a democratic system.
01:38:48 --> 01:38:56 But it seems to be, and this is another element of a bias, which I think is
01:38:56 --> 01:38:58 a manifestation of some measure of anti-Semitism.
01:38:59 --> 01:39:03 I'm saying you're not doing it. But a lot of times things that everyone else
01:39:03 --> 01:39:06 does as an absolute matter of course,
01:39:06 --> 01:39:13 in terms of a particular group trying to advance or secure its interests,
01:39:13 --> 01:39:19 when folks in the Jewish community do it, it tends to be characterized as something,
01:39:20 --> 01:39:21 you know, it's vilified.
01:39:22 --> 01:39:24 So, you know, I never...
01:39:25 --> 01:39:32 Felt that the organization was intentionally trying to target people on anything to do with race.
01:39:32 --> 01:39:37 I felt like it had to do with organization has a particular position.
01:39:37 --> 01:39:41 There's things that it wants to see happen within the government,
01:39:41 --> 01:39:43 no different than any other major lobbying organization.
01:39:44 --> 01:39:49 And if you don't see the world the same way, then you challenge those folks
01:39:49 --> 01:39:50 in an electoral process.
01:39:50 --> 01:39:54 That's just the nature of politics in our country. And then,
01:39:54 --> 01:40:00 you know, in those particular instances, though, we have a C4 organization called
01:40:00 --> 01:40:01 the National Black Empowerment Action Fund.
01:40:01 --> 01:40:05 And one of the things that we were doing in congressional black caucus districts
01:40:05 --> 01:40:12 is polling black folks in those districts in order to understand what were the
01:40:12 --> 01:40:18 main issues that were going to animate their participation in these elections.
01:40:18 --> 01:40:23 And it was issues dealing with, obviously, the economy, jobs,
01:40:23 --> 01:40:25 schools, and public safety.
01:40:25 --> 01:40:29 And the two individuals that you're mentioning.
01:40:30 --> 01:40:34 They stood, while being African American,
01:40:34 --> 01:40:39 the positions that they were holding on public safety, on the Biden infrastructure
01:40:39 --> 01:40:45 plan, which would have brought untold resources and jobs and opportunities to
01:40:45 --> 01:40:48 their districts, they didn't support those.
01:40:48 --> 01:40:53 And in fact, in over 100 cases, both of those two members voted against the
01:40:53 --> 01:40:57 positions of the Biden administration and the Congressional Black Caucus on
01:40:57 --> 01:41:00 issues of critical importance to our community.
01:41:00 --> 01:41:05 So when folks in those districts got a better understanding of where these members
01:41:05 --> 01:41:11 actually stood, not on Israel, nobody in the black, they didn't care about that.
01:41:11 --> 01:41:15 It was about how they stood on issues that were germane to our community when
01:41:15 --> 01:41:17 people saw that disconnect.
01:41:18 --> 01:41:22 That then is what led to those members being unseated.
01:41:23 --> 01:41:29 So AIPAC did play a role in that, but it is a much larger that their action
01:41:29 --> 01:41:36 took place amidst a much larger context of other issues that affected that outcome.
01:41:37 --> 01:41:41 Yeah. And and to be fair, it's like, you know, I've been an elected official.
01:41:42 --> 01:41:44 I've won elections and I've lost elections.
01:41:45 --> 01:41:53 And I know that one group may get the credit for feeding it,
01:41:53 --> 01:41:59 especially an incumbent, but there's always a whole bunch of circumstances.
01:42:00 --> 01:42:03 I tell people all the time, you know, they say, well, you know,
01:42:03 --> 01:42:07 the bankers came against you and all this stuff. I say, bro, did you see my opponent?
01:42:07 --> 01:42:11 That sister was beautiful. That sister was intelligent. That sister,
01:42:11 --> 01:42:15 it was like people remembered when she knocked on their door. compared to me.
01:42:16 --> 01:42:21 And then the other thing, the other thing was she grew up in the district,
01:42:21 --> 01:42:25 you know, where I had moved in the district years ago.
01:42:25 --> 01:42:28 And so I wasn't a native of even the city.
01:42:28 --> 01:42:32 So it worked out, you know, and we were cool.
01:42:32 --> 01:42:35 You know what I'm saying? We didn't have any personal beef against each other,
01:42:35 --> 01:42:37 but I said, that's just the nature of politics.
01:42:37 --> 01:42:40 There's always a whole lot of circumstances that kick in.
01:42:41 --> 01:42:44 Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, But at the end of the day,
01:42:44 --> 01:42:47 Tip O'Neill wrote a famous book called All Politics is Local.
01:42:48 --> 01:42:52 And I'm not saying you weren't in your case. I'm sure that you were taking great
01:42:52 --> 01:42:53 care of your constituents.
01:42:53 --> 01:42:57 But at the end of the day, if you really doing what the people who put you in
01:42:57 --> 01:43:05 that seat want you to do, it can be very difficult for people to come from the outside and unseat you.
01:43:05 --> 01:43:08 I mean, what's the reelection rate of most incumbents in Congress,
01:43:09 --> 01:43:13 like 92 percent? it. You know, you're focused on your constituent services.
01:43:13 --> 01:43:19 And, you know, if you are a congressional black caucus member and your black
01:43:19 --> 01:43:23 constituency has an expectation that you're going to be championing issues that
01:43:23 --> 01:43:26 help put food on their table and you're making,
01:43:27 --> 01:43:31 you know, an element of United States foreign policy, the hill that you're ready
01:43:31 --> 01:43:36 to die on to the exclusion of a focus on things that are going to help people,
01:43:36 --> 01:43:38 you know, stay out of poverty.
01:43:39 --> 01:43:45 I might listen to you do that for a couple of years, but eventually you keep
01:43:45 --> 01:43:51 beating that drum and we're not getting what we need on the ground in order to improve our lives.
01:43:52 --> 01:43:55 I might be open to entertain some other possibilities. And I think that that's
01:43:55 --> 01:43:57 what happened in those two races. Yeah.
01:43:58 --> 01:44:03 And, you know, again, I, I, you know, I think I was doing a good job and,
01:44:03 --> 01:44:08 but I used to tell people all the time, I said, my district was the most affluent
01:44:08 --> 01:44:10 black district in the state.
01:44:11 --> 01:44:16 So all the college, all those folks were college educated. All those folks were
01:44:16 --> 01:44:18 ambitious. All those folks were socially connected.
01:44:19 --> 01:44:25 So I worked as hard as I did because I was trying to minimize competition because
01:44:25 --> 01:44:29 somebody in that district was going to be able to run and give it to me.
01:44:30 --> 01:44:33 And at least I got nine years out of it. So it is what it is.
01:44:34 --> 01:44:40 In November 2024, in a column you wrote for The Hill entitled A New Path Forward
01:44:40 --> 01:44:47 for Black America, you said it's time to shift from thinking in binary terms of us versus them.
01:44:47 --> 01:44:51 And instead approach politics with the mindset of a chess player,
01:44:51 --> 01:44:53 strategically several moves ahead.
01:44:53 --> 01:45:00 The challenges we face transcend party lines, while historical loyalties run
01:45:00 --> 01:45:02 deep, issues such as economic inequality,
01:45:03 --> 01:45:09 educational gaps, and under-resourced communities persist, regardless of which party holds power.
01:45:10 --> 01:45:16 Now, Kareem Jean-Pierre, former White House press secretary for Joe Biden,
01:45:16 --> 01:45:20 announced that she has left the Democratic Party to become an independent and
01:45:20 --> 01:45:21 even wrote a book about it.
01:45:22 --> 01:45:29 Is it time for Black American voters to end their 60-plus year loyalty to the Democratic Party?
01:45:30 --> 01:45:39 I think it is time for black Americans to look at politics as a mechanism to
01:45:39 --> 01:45:42 the advancement and the achievement of ends,
01:45:42 --> 01:45:46 which are critical to our survival and to our advancement.
01:45:46 --> 01:45:52 And in a two-party system of governance,
01:45:52 --> 01:45:59 to over-index on one side to the degree of upwards of 90%,
01:45:59 --> 01:46:07 you are not engaging, you are not compelling people to compete for your vote. You are there.
01:46:08 --> 01:46:10 There's no negotiation possible.
01:46:11 --> 01:46:14 There's no engagement where
01:46:14 --> 01:46:18 you can start to have an exchange of ideas and another group can begin to learn
01:46:18 --> 01:46:23 how they could potentially bring benefit or help address the needs of your community
01:46:23 --> 01:46:28 because you over index to such a degree where it seems as though the possibility
01:46:28 --> 01:46:31 for meaningful conversation just doesn't even exist.
01:46:31 --> 01:46:39 OK, I do not think that that is a pragmatic.
01:46:39 --> 01:46:47 Practical or advisable way to continuously try to get what we need under this system.
01:46:47 --> 01:46:51 Again, you mentioned that I worked at AIPAC.
01:46:51 --> 01:46:55 The foundational principle of the organization was bipartisanship.
01:46:55 --> 01:47:02 So that if you were a Republican and you supported the issues that were of importance
01:47:02 --> 01:47:05 to the organization, they supported you.
01:47:05 --> 01:47:12 If you were a Democrat and you supported it, then they supported you.
01:47:12 --> 01:47:18 And then what that did was it created a circumstance where no matter who is
01:47:18 --> 01:47:22 in power, what you care about is not marginalized.
01:47:23 --> 01:47:28 OK, you have the requisite relationships on both sides of the aisle to make
01:47:28 --> 01:47:36 sure that a deaf ear is not turned to you for whatever period that person is in office.
01:47:36 --> 01:47:40 And as black people, we can't there's too much riding.
01:47:40 --> 01:47:49 We live too close to the precipice of like economic implosion for us to be able
01:47:49 --> 01:47:52 to say, OK, for four years or for eight years.
01:47:53 --> 01:47:57 We don't like the party in power, so we're not even going to talk to them.
01:47:58 --> 01:48:03 Like, they are persona non grata. And if I see you, Eric, even over there having
01:48:03 --> 01:48:07 a conversation with you, with them, I'm going to cancel you, okay?
01:48:07 --> 01:48:11 Even though you got unimpeachable credibility in our community,
01:48:11 --> 01:48:13 you are an elected official, you
01:48:13 --> 01:48:17 talk about issues which are critical importance to us each and every day.
01:48:17 --> 01:48:21 If I even see you in the vicinity of somebody from another party,
01:48:21 --> 01:48:26 then I'm severing my relationship with you and I'm going to try to,
01:48:26 --> 01:48:28 you know, disparage you within the larger community.
01:48:29 --> 01:48:33 And really what you're doing is you over there just trying to see if it's even
01:48:33 --> 01:48:41 possible to have a conversation with these folks about how these issues can be addressed.
01:48:41 --> 01:48:50 And I just flatly refuse to be boxed in like that when I recognize both the
01:48:50 --> 01:48:56 benefit of having relationships on both sides of the aisle and then for our community,
01:48:56 --> 01:49:02 the dire necessity of having relationships with folks on both sides of the aisle.
01:49:02 --> 01:49:08 Both parties should come to our communities and compete for our vote.
01:49:08 --> 01:49:14 Like, I say this in jest. I'm being somewhat facetious.
01:49:14 --> 01:49:17 But I'm like, if I had a magic wand, Eric, here's what I'd do.
01:49:17 --> 01:49:20 I weighed a magic wand. Then on Tuesday...
01:49:22 --> 01:49:25 Everybody Black would be registered to vote, okay? There'd be a couple of news
01:49:25 --> 01:49:29 cycles about it. Oh, my God, 100% African-American voter registration.
01:49:30 --> 01:49:33 On Thursday, we would then hold a press conference,
01:49:33 --> 01:49:37 and we would say Black people are withdrawing from partisan politics,
01:49:37 --> 01:49:45 and we will vote as a bloc for whichever party is prepared to do the most to advance our interests.
01:49:45 --> 01:49:49 It would be the most consequential political constituency in the history of
01:49:49 --> 01:49:51 the United States overnight.
01:49:52 --> 01:49:58 Just because we refuse to over-index on either side and we're keeping our powder
01:49:58 --> 01:50:03 dry and we're letting people come to us and negotiate,
01:50:04 --> 01:50:07 compete for our votes. Will that ever happen?
01:50:07 --> 01:50:13 Likely not. Takes multiple generations of societal conditioning for that to happen.
01:50:13 --> 01:50:21 But were it ever to happen, we would be in a decidedly different power position here in this country.
01:50:21 --> 01:50:25 Well, to highlight your point about generations.
01:50:26 --> 01:50:31 You know, what I try to explain to people is that our political sophistication
01:50:31 --> 01:50:38 is not as advanced as our lighter skin cousins, right?
01:50:38 --> 01:50:44 Because we've only been a full democracy for 60 years.
01:50:45 --> 01:50:51 And even less if you consider that 18-year-olds weren't allowed to vote till 72.
01:50:52 --> 01:50:59 So, you know, in the Black community, we've got 60 years, even though we've
01:50:59 --> 01:51:05 had some traditions as organizing and being able periodically to get elected.
01:51:05 --> 01:51:09 We had a 10-year run during, you know, in Reconstruction.
01:51:09 --> 01:51:12 But on a consistent basis in
01:51:12 --> 01:51:16 the modern-day politics, We've only been engaged for 60 years like this.
01:51:16 --> 01:51:20 So we don't have we're just now getting to the point where our children,
01:51:20 --> 01:51:24 if we've been elected, our children are now running for office.
01:51:24 --> 01:51:29 Whereas like you got folks that their great grandchildren are running for office. Right.
01:51:30 --> 01:51:35 So there's there's some nuances that we still need to learn.
01:51:36 --> 01:51:41 And, you know, your magic wand is 100 percent registration voting as a block.
01:51:41 --> 01:51:47 My magic wand is on November, on the first Tuesday in November on the presidential
01:51:47 --> 01:51:53 election year, your choice for president is a black person as a Democrat or
01:51:53 --> 01:51:55 a black person as a Republican. That's my magic wand.
01:51:57 --> 01:52:02 It's like we got to get to that point where I said that would be my dream.
01:52:02 --> 01:52:06 You know what I'm saying? To be able to see somebody that looks like us,
01:52:06 --> 01:52:09 that comes from our communities in both parties.
01:52:09 --> 01:52:16 And more likely than not, they're addressing the issues that we need addressed.
01:52:16 --> 01:52:19 It's just a matter of which one we think can do the job, right?
01:52:19 --> 01:52:24 Absolutely. I agree. I agree with you 100%. And I think, you know,
01:52:24 --> 01:52:28 what I'm talking about is, is, is, is feasible.
01:52:28 --> 01:52:30 You know, this likely never going to happen.
01:52:31 --> 01:52:33 What you're talking about is thinking much closer to reality,
01:52:33 --> 01:52:35 but you know, we can all drink.
01:52:36 --> 01:52:42 In terms of like the learning curve, I think the minute we start to really look
01:52:42 --> 01:52:45 at our politics through the context of like survival.
01:52:46 --> 01:52:51 When we really realize that that's the calculus it holds.
01:52:52 --> 01:52:57 And I think that it takes time to learn things until you consider them to be existential.
01:52:58 --> 01:53:03 Once you recognize the existential nature of it, your ability to respond differently.
01:53:03 --> 01:53:07 Is significantly quickened. So,
01:53:07 --> 01:53:15 you know, I feel like if things were to ever take an even more decidedly disadvantageous
01:53:15 --> 01:53:17 turn within our community,
01:53:17 --> 01:53:23 that you might have people who might be more receptive to those types of ideas.
01:53:23 --> 01:53:27 I mean, this time around in the most recent election, it was a significant conversation point.
01:53:28 --> 01:53:31 You know, when I'm in the barbershop, when I'm at the restaurants.
01:53:32 --> 01:53:36 You know, there were a lot of people who were talking about the idea in ways
01:53:36 --> 01:53:39 that I hadn't heard them talk about it before.
01:53:39 --> 01:53:42 Now, ultimately, I mean, once in a voting booth, voting booth,
01:53:42 --> 01:53:43 you know, they did what they did.
01:53:44 --> 01:53:49 But there was a serious consideration of how we position ourselves politically
01:53:49 --> 01:53:53 that I had not heard spoken about in previous elections.
01:53:54 --> 01:53:58 Yeah. And those conversations are still going too, brother. They still haven't.
01:53:58 --> 01:54:01 So that leads me to my final question for you.
01:54:01 --> 01:54:06 Talk about the National Black Empowerment Council and how your organization
01:54:06 --> 01:54:10 can assist Black Americans navigate through this turbulent moment in our country.
01:54:10 --> 01:54:13 Absolutely, brother. Thank you for asking.
01:54:13 --> 01:54:17 The National Black Empowerment Council is a national leadership network.
01:54:18 --> 01:54:21 Black leaders in business, politics, academia, health, tech,
01:54:22 --> 01:54:24 faith, law, philanthropy.
01:54:24 --> 01:54:30 The best way to describe it, man, is to imagine 20 to 25 cities in the United
01:54:30 --> 01:54:34 States where Black people live in basically high enough demographics that you're
01:54:34 --> 01:54:38 going to have African-American elected officials and that we're going to have
01:54:38 --> 01:54:41 kind of like an outsized influence over the politics.
01:54:41 --> 01:54:48 What we've been doing as a movement over the last 15 years is identifying folks
01:54:48 --> 01:54:55 from those various industries in those cities who could work together strategically
01:54:55 --> 01:54:57 to leverage their resources,
01:54:57 --> 01:54:59 their relationships, and their institutional influence.
01:55:00 --> 01:55:05 To do things for the benefit of Black folks. So we have a number of folks who
01:55:05 --> 01:55:09 first joined our organization as aspiring political leaders,
01:55:09 --> 01:55:15 who've now gone on to be mayors, who's the United States Senator in our group, members of Congress.
01:55:16 --> 01:55:20 HBCU presidents, successful entrepreneurs, partners in law firms,
01:55:20 --> 01:55:26 but folks who in the various cities that we live in recognize challenges that
01:55:26 --> 01:55:30 are existing in our communities and work together, not in a way where we're
01:55:30 --> 01:55:32 out here having press conferences,
01:55:32 --> 01:55:35 not in a way where we're out here pounding our chest trying to get newspaper
01:55:35 --> 01:55:40 articles about how we work together, but people who can pick up a phone and
01:55:40 --> 01:55:44 do things which move the needle that cause positive things to happen for our
01:55:44 --> 01:55:46 community on the ground.
01:55:46 --> 01:55:53 And I think that many other communities develop these types of leadership networks
01:55:53 --> 01:55:56 of folks who have the opportunity to get to know each other, network,
01:55:57 --> 01:56:01 have shared experiences, but then also be imbued with a sense of responsibility
01:56:01 --> 01:56:08 and mission as it relates to not just having these positions for self-aggrandizement,
01:56:08 --> 01:56:13 but to use them across multiple industries to do things which uplift our folks.
01:56:14 --> 01:56:20 So, you know, we want to be additive to things that the legacy civil rights
01:56:20 --> 01:56:21 organizations are doing,
01:56:21 --> 01:56:25 as well as what's happening at the grassroots levels,
01:56:25 --> 01:56:30 because a lot of times You need people who are in those critical arteries who
01:56:30 --> 01:56:35 can push buttons and answer calls and send the correct email to make things
01:56:35 --> 01:56:38 happen, which bring benefit to the grassroots.
01:56:39 --> 01:56:45 And, you know, I was going to say, and one of the things that we also do is
01:56:45 --> 01:56:51 that we do recognize the importance of allies and of critical strategic partnerships.
01:56:51 --> 01:56:58 So in pulling this network together, bringing about a resurgence of the Black-Jewish
01:56:58 --> 01:57:04 relationship is also something which is a high priority of the organization as well.
01:57:04 --> 01:57:06 Because as you said before, if
01:57:06 --> 01:57:10 any one group could do it entirely by themselves, it would have been done.
01:57:10 --> 01:57:16 But to the degree to which you can have other like-minded, formidable people
01:57:16 --> 01:57:20 join your coalition, it increases your likelihood of success.
01:57:20 --> 01:57:24 All right. So there's two things I want you to do now.
01:57:24 --> 01:57:29 I want you to tell people how they can get involved with the National Black
01:57:29 --> 01:57:32 Empowerment Council, how they can get in touch with you.
01:57:32 --> 01:57:38 And then I want you to leave us with a word of encouragement as we as we go through.
01:57:38 --> 01:57:45 Absolutely. You go to the website. It's dmbec.org. You can email me directly
01:57:45 --> 01:57:51 at president at nationalblackempowermentcouncil at dmbec.org.
01:57:52 --> 01:57:56 For folks who are going to be at the African-American Mayors Conference,
01:57:56 --> 01:58:02 the Congressional Black Caucus event in September, we do a number of solutions
01:58:02 --> 01:58:05 sessions around important issues for our community.
01:58:05 --> 01:58:09 And we would love to have folks come in and participate and be a part of this
01:58:09 --> 01:58:12 larger movement that we're building.
01:58:13 --> 01:58:18 If I were to say something to try to leave folks with a sense of inspiration,
01:58:18 --> 01:58:22 I mean, I would just, my mantra, my mantra is that, you know, the universe is mental.
01:58:23 --> 01:58:27 And what I mean by that is your life is a manifestation of your most dominant
01:58:27 --> 01:58:30 thoughts, brother. What you think on grows.
01:58:30 --> 01:58:36 I feel like all this around me exists to just reinforce the things that I am
01:58:36 --> 01:58:41 thinking, that I am expecting and that I am feeling on on a daily basis.
01:58:41 --> 01:58:47 And having a victor mentality.
01:58:47 --> 01:58:52 In a system which is designed to work that way, as opposed to having a victim
01:58:52 --> 01:58:57 mentality in a system which is designed to multiply more of what I already am,
01:58:57 --> 01:59:04 I just go into life on a daily basis, man, with a sense of whatever I set my mind to is achievable.
01:59:05 --> 01:59:11 And I think to the degree to which more folks within our community really understood what,
01:59:12 --> 01:59:20 their own inherent power and their own inherent ability to see their expectations
01:59:20 --> 01:59:22 manifest in their own lives,
01:59:22 --> 01:59:28 I think it would put us in a decidedly different state and in a decidedly different position.
01:59:28 --> 01:59:33 I mean, government is critical. It plays a very powerful role in our lives.
01:59:33 --> 01:59:38 But I also believe that we have tremendous personal agency within ourselves
01:59:38 --> 01:59:42 as well. And when we turn on that light, that sense of possibility,
01:59:43 --> 01:59:48 that sense of inevitability, we make incredible things happen in our lives.
01:59:48 --> 01:59:53 So I just encourage people to take charge and to realize that anything that
01:59:53 --> 01:59:58 you put your mind to consistently and in earnest, you can see it manifest in
01:59:58 --> 02:00:01 your life, brother. And I think that's our role.
02:00:02 --> 02:00:05 And those who we elect into high office have a role, too.
02:00:06 --> 02:00:10 But the more we're empowered, I think the more we make this system ultimately
02:00:10 --> 02:00:13 become what we know it can be. Yeah.
02:00:14 --> 02:00:17 Well, Brother Darius Jones, thank you for that. And thank you for coming on.
02:00:18 --> 02:00:22 I have a lot of respect for you, brother. Likewise.
02:00:22 --> 02:00:27 Even though we just now meeting, you know, you can follow people from afar.
02:00:28 --> 02:00:31 And so when I when I got the word that you would be able to come on,
02:00:31 --> 02:00:37 I was very, very excited about that. And if you, you know, anytime you want
02:00:37 --> 02:00:39 to, so my rule is, now that you've
02:00:39 --> 02:00:43 been on the show, anytime you want to come back on, you let me know.
02:00:43 --> 02:00:48 So in your chest and all that stuff, you know, you just, just let me know and
02:00:48 --> 02:00:49 we'll make, make that happen for you.
02:00:50 --> 02:00:53 All right. Be careful what you wish for, bro. Oh, no.
02:00:53 --> 02:00:56 Look, you're not the first one to say that, but I'm telling you,
02:00:56 --> 02:01:01 it's like, I mean it because, you know, this is, this is, dialogue is important.
02:01:01 --> 02:01:08 And I think the more people are exposed to folks that are doing the work like
02:01:08 --> 02:01:12 you, the better we can be in the community, if nothing else,
02:01:12 --> 02:01:16 that we have hope that things are going in the right direction.
02:01:16 --> 02:01:23 So, again, I just thank you for coming on the podcast, and I appreciate the work that you're doing.
02:01:23 --> 02:01:26 You're doing what you do, man. Keep being a guiding light, man.
02:01:26 --> 02:01:28 We need folks like you. I appreciate that.
02:01:29 --> 02:01:31 All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
02:01:31 --> 02:01:33 All right, man. God bless.
02:01:33 --> 02:01:43 Music.
02:01:45 --> 02:01:50 All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Lewis Williams, Ashley T.
02:01:50 --> 02:01:54 Martin and Darius Jones for taking the time to come on the podcast.
02:01:54 --> 02:01:58 And again, I hope that you have learned something from them.
02:01:58 --> 02:02:06 And these individuals, to me, Miss Martin, I've worked with before.
02:02:07 --> 02:02:11 The other two brothers, it was the first time we had met. But.
02:02:11 --> 02:02:14 You know, I felt some kind of connection with them.
02:02:14 --> 02:02:18 You know, we're all around the same age. I think Brother Lewis is a little older.
02:02:19 --> 02:02:23 Brother Darius is a little younger. But, you know, Black men in America that's
02:02:23 --> 02:02:25 lived in the North and the South,
02:02:25 --> 02:02:37 you know, So we have certain kinship stories, and I respect them for being good
02:02:37 --> 02:02:39 at what they do, and then especially Ms.
02:02:39 --> 02:02:47 Ashley as well, being good at what they do. and be willing to explain things
02:02:47 --> 02:02:57 in a way where their experience translates to what needs to be done from a political sense.
02:02:57 --> 02:03:05 Because, you know, I don't care if you're an actor or athlete or professor or
02:03:05 --> 02:03:08 whatever, this is a political show.
02:03:08 --> 02:03:11 And if I've asked you to come on, you've agreed to come on,
02:03:11 --> 02:03:18 then whatever contribution you're offering to society has an impact on politics,
02:03:18 --> 02:03:24 just like politics has an impact on everything that you do in life. Right.
02:03:24 --> 02:03:31 And so I'm always, you know, for those of you who listen to the podcast all
02:03:31 --> 02:03:35 these years, you know that I always try to make that connection.
02:03:35 --> 02:03:39 And for those who've known me as far as being an elected official or just a
02:03:39 --> 02:03:43 politician, period, I've always tried to make that connection so people understand
02:03:43 --> 02:03:46 that politics is in everything else.
02:03:47 --> 02:03:52 In America, every aspect of our life, politics is involved in it.
02:03:52 --> 02:03:59 It might be benign to you, but politics played a role, some way, shape, or form.
02:03:59 --> 02:04:07 And so I just thank those three people for honoring the invitation and coming
02:04:07 --> 02:04:09 on, and hopefully you got something from them.
02:04:10 --> 02:04:14 There's a lot of things I could talk about. There's a lot of things that's on my mind.
02:04:14 --> 02:04:19 I know as I'm recording this, the big thing that's going on is the fact that
02:04:19 --> 02:04:26 the bromance is over between the most powerful man in the world and the richest man in the world.
02:04:28 --> 02:04:31 And, well, a lot of us, we knew that day was coming.
02:04:33 --> 02:04:37 We knew it was going to happen. We didn't know when, but we knew it was going to eventually happen.
02:04:38 --> 02:04:47 And it's interesting that it's happening over public policy about a particular piece of legislation.
02:04:48 --> 02:04:53 So, you know, it is what it is. It wasn't about style or it wasn't about,
02:04:54 --> 02:04:56 well, it's always going to be about ego with them.
02:04:56 --> 02:05:03 But it really came down to a fundamental disagreement about public policy,
02:05:03 --> 02:05:08 which in some sense, it's crazy it might sound,
02:05:08 --> 02:05:16 encouraging that these two individuals who have a very unique distinction in
02:05:16 --> 02:05:19 our world, let alone in our country,
02:05:19 --> 02:05:24 have split over a public policy issue.
02:05:26 --> 02:05:32 You know, and that's really kind of the way it should be if it's going to happen.
02:05:32 --> 02:05:34 Shouldn't be about personality.
02:05:34 --> 02:05:39 Shouldn't be about extramarital affairs. It shouldn't be about corruption.
02:05:40 --> 02:05:43 You know, I guess in the sense it's kind of like corruption, but not, you know.
02:05:44 --> 02:05:49 But it's really about the fundamental difference about public policy.
02:05:50 --> 02:05:55 And so I'm going to take that as encouraging, not as a Democrat saying,
02:05:55 --> 02:05:56 oh, the Republicans are divided.
02:05:56 --> 02:06:04 No, that two of the most unique people on the planet are having a real debate,
02:06:04 --> 02:06:08 a heated debate, a split even, over an issue.
02:06:09 --> 02:06:16 And listening to some of the people in the Republican Party that's kind of looking
02:06:16 --> 02:06:20 at that and like, how is that going to impact my election or what I should do?
02:06:21 --> 02:06:26 You know, it's kind of like a moment of introspection.
02:06:26 --> 02:06:32 I think they're circling the wagons and they're going to try to maintain as
02:06:32 --> 02:06:36 many seats as they can in the House and the Senate on 26.
02:06:38 --> 02:06:43 But, you know, you actually had somebody look at the president of the United
02:06:43 --> 02:06:45 States and say, I don't agree with that.
02:06:46 --> 02:06:51 And I think that's, you know, we saw that the last time the president was in office.
02:06:53 --> 02:06:58 And now we're really seeing somebody that is saying and putting a foot down
02:06:58 --> 02:06:59 and said, no, we shouldn't do that.
02:07:00 --> 02:07:04 And people now are going to have to really start making a decision.
02:07:04 --> 02:07:07 Do you agree with the no or do you agree with the yes?
02:07:08 --> 02:07:10 And that's the way it should be in politics, right?
02:07:11 --> 02:07:18 That's the way it should be. It should be about honest debate about what direction
02:07:18 --> 02:07:19 you want the country to go.
02:07:21 --> 02:07:27 And if the leaders show that, then the electorate will follow and make a decision
02:07:27 --> 02:07:29 which direction you want the country to go.
02:07:29 --> 02:07:33 You'll vote for the person that you believe will take you where we need to be.
02:07:34 --> 02:07:35 That's all we can ask for.
02:07:36 --> 02:07:40 Intelligent debate. Somebody saying this is the way we go and somebody say,
02:07:41 --> 02:07:44 no, let's not do that. That's all we can ask for.
02:07:45 --> 02:07:49 And whatever side you're on, you hope your side prevails, right?
02:07:50 --> 02:07:57 And as we start hammering out how this government's going to work,
02:07:57 --> 02:07:59 we still have those debates.
02:08:00 --> 02:08:05 It's not one side dominating the other side to the point where they're trying
02:08:05 --> 02:08:09 to make them irrelevant or disrespect them, right?
02:08:09 --> 02:08:18 So that's that. You know, I'm not in it for the reality TV factor on it.
02:08:18 --> 02:08:22 I'm here for, huh, that's actually refreshing.
02:08:23 --> 02:08:26 That two of the most distinguished, if you want to say that,
02:08:27 --> 02:08:29 by virtue of their positions, they're distinguished.
02:08:30 --> 02:08:34 Individuals in this nation are having a real disagreement in public.
02:08:35 --> 02:08:39 That means it should be okay for us to have disagreements in public.
02:08:39 --> 02:08:43 Now, I don't think we should be petty about it, but I think we need to have
02:08:43 --> 02:08:48 disagreements, because if we have a discussion, then we can get to a solution,
02:08:48 --> 02:08:51 not just arguing for arguing's sake, right?
02:08:52 --> 02:08:56 Which leads me to my closing point.
02:08:57 --> 02:09:01 So I'm going to start off. This is from Wikipedia.
02:09:02 --> 02:09:10 John Neely Kennedy, born November 21st, 1951, is an American politician and
02:09:10 --> 02:09:14 attorney who has served as a junior United States senator from Louisiana since 2017.
02:09:15 --> 02:09:21 A Republican, he served as Louisiana state treasurer from 2000 to 2017.
02:09:21 --> 02:09:27 As secretary of the Louisiana Department of Revenue from 1996 to 99,
02:09:27 --> 02:09:34 and as special counsel and then cabinet member to Governor Buddy Romer from 1988 to 1992.
02:09:35 --> 02:09:39 One of the most important things in the article that says he is not related
02:09:39 --> 02:09:42 to President John F. Kennedy. Thank God.
02:09:44 --> 02:09:47 And you'll understand when I go into my rant. The other thing I wanted to point
02:09:47 --> 02:09:50 out about him is that he was born in Centerville, Mississippi.
02:09:50 --> 02:09:55 And if you know anything about Mississippi, he probably thought he was in Louisiana anyway.
02:09:56 --> 02:10:00 That's just a joke that we Mississippi is. Like down in that part of that southwest
02:10:00 --> 02:10:03 corner of the state, you know, they get Baton Rouge TV.
02:10:03 --> 02:10:07 So a lot of them, you have to remind them, no, no, you're in Mississippi.
02:10:08 --> 02:10:13 So you got to deal with stuff here. He graduated from Vanderbilt University
02:10:13 --> 02:10:18 and the University of Virginia Law School before attending Oxford University.
02:10:18 --> 02:10:23 Yeah, across the pond, other side of the water, he went to Oxford.
02:10:25 --> 02:10:29 So why am I doing an intro for this guy?
02:10:31 --> 02:10:40 Because he is one of the reasons why I don't like this modern-day crop of politicians.
02:10:40 --> 02:10:46 Now, you've heard me get on Nancy Mace and Marjorie Taylor Greene and all that stuff, Lauren Boebert,
02:10:46 --> 02:10:55 and there's some other men, but this guy, this guy is really the epitome of
02:10:55 --> 02:10:57 what we have had to deal with.
02:10:57 --> 02:11:05 And, you know, it's like, so y'all remember, some of y'all may remember the Looney Tunes cartoons.
02:11:06 --> 02:11:10 And you remember they had this chicken who was supposed to be from the South,
02:11:10 --> 02:11:11 Foghorn Leghorn, right?
02:11:12 --> 02:11:18 That's him. He is the living version of that. I say that, I say that, boy.
02:11:18 --> 02:11:23 He's that dude. I don't even know if he really talks like he talks in public,
02:11:24 --> 02:11:28 in private. But, you know, in the public persona, he's all wild. Yeah.
02:11:28 --> 02:11:36 Well, you know, and it would be humorous if he wasn't such a butthole.
02:11:36 --> 02:11:41 Right. And there's two things that really, really tick me off about him.
02:11:42 --> 02:11:44 I mean, it's a lot of things.
02:11:44 --> 02:11:48 One, he was a Democrat before he was a Republican. So, you know,
02:11:49 --> 02:11:54 there's that. He did that typical, oh, I got to stay in good with the country
02:11:54 --> 02:11:57 club folks, so I got to switch parties, right?
02:11:58 --> 02:12:02 So you already know the character in that deal.
02:12:03 --> 02:12:12 But then when this whole thing with the Israeli-Hamas conflict started,
02:12:12 --> 02:12:18 And again, I appreciate Brother Darius for coming on and talking about some
02:12:18 --> 02:12:22 of the anti-Semitism that's been going on because of that.
02:12:23 --> 02:12:32 But, you know, I'm not, well, first of all, I'm educated enough to know that,
02:12:32 --> 02:12:40 you know, even though the vernacular of our language equates anti-Semitism to being anti-Jewish.
02:12:40 --> 02:12:46 If you understand history, if you understand knowledge, if you are prejudiced
02:12:46 --> 02:12:49 toward Palestinian people, technically you're anti-Semitic too.
02:12:49 --> 02:12:53 Because all of those people in that region are Semites.
02:12:54 --> 02:12:58 You don't believe me, just grab a Bible and kind of start from Genesis and work
02:12:58 --> 02:13:00 your way through and you'll figure it out, right?
02:13:01 --> 02:13:05 Or just Google it, right?
02:13:07 --> 02:13:12 But, you know, for the term that, you know, I want to deal with Kennedy,
02:13:13 --> 02:13:20 he did something really, really egregious, which, you know, in this era of politics
02:13:20 --> 02:13:21 is just flat out terrible.
02:13:21 --> 02:13:27 And that's the lady, it was a lady who I think she was president of the Arab
02:13:27 --> 02:13:32 League or one of those big Arab organizations, right?
02:13:33 --> 02:13:39 And instead of, because first of all, when you invite, when you're a member
02:13:39 --> 02:13:44 of Congress and you're a committee and you invite people to take time out of
02:13:44 --> 02:13:47 their schedule to testify before the United States Congress,
02:13:48 --> 02:13:52 You are calling, you're supposed to be calling them up based on their expertise.
02:13:52 --> 02:13:56 Just like I have guests on my podcast based on their expertise.
02:13:57 --> 02:14:00 I'm, you know, they're supposed to be calling these people up.
02:14:01 --> 02:14:04 And whether you agree with their positions or not, because they are experts,
02:14:04 --> 02:14:09 you bring them forward to present their side. Right.
02:14:09 --> 02:14:14 And you have the right to interrogate them. You have the right to question some
02:14:14 --> 02:14:19 of the beliefs that they have. but you don't have the right to be downright disrespectful.
02:14:20 --> 02:14:24 You don't have the right to be a racist butthole. You do not.
02:14:25 --> 02:14:31 And John Neely Kennedy is that foghorn leghorn racist butthole.
02:14:32 --> 02:14:36 And I usually don't get into it like that, but it's just, oh my God.
02:14:37 --> 02:14:44 It's just, he's just a glaring example outside of current leadership in the
02:14:44 --> 02:14:50 White House and all that. But he's, people like that should not have comfort.
02:14:51 --> 02:14:54 People like that, if they want respect, they need to give it.
02:14:57 --> 02:15:06 And I implore every black Louisiana and Gary Chambers will do his part to make
02:15:06 --> 02:15:07 sure that y'all get out and vote.
02:15:07 --> 02:15:11 Please listen to Gary. When Gary is knocking on your door, please answer.
02:15:11 --> 02:15:15 If he says register to vote, register, because then you can get people like
02:15:15 --> 02:15:21 John Neely Kennedy out where they don't serve in public office anymore, right?
02:15:21 --> 02:15:26 If black people in Louisiana came out to vote, if black people in Louisiana
02:15:26 --> 02:15:33 registered to vote, like black people in Georgia registered to vote, right?
02:15:34 --> 02:15:39 Then you can get Brother Neely out, Neely Kennedy, you can get him out.
02:15:39 --> 02:15:43 And I say brother in the Christian sense Because I'm supposed to love everybody,
02:15:44 --> 02:15:49 but you can get him out, let him go back to Louisiana, maybe even go back to
02:15:49 --> 02:15:55 Centerville and just live a quiet existence and not be disrespectful to anybody
02:15:55 --> 02:15:56 in his presence ever again.
02:15:57 --> 02:16:01 But he got up in front of this lady, so the lady now accepts the invitation
02:16:01 --> 02:16:04 to come. And you know it's a tumultuous time.
02:16:06 --> 02:16:13 So when she gets up there, he says, well, you support Hamas, don't you?
02:16:14 --> 02:16:19 And he started going. And before she could answer, he wanted he had a routine he wanted to do.
02:16:19 --> 02:16:23 And every time she was ready to answer, he said, well, I've got to move on.
02:16:23 --> 02:16:26 So if you're not going to ask a question the way you're supposed to do it in
02:16:26 --> 02:16:29 Congress, whether you're in the Senate or House, if you're not going to ask
02:16:29 --> 02:16:32 a question, then you can use your time to make a statement.
02:16:33 --> 02:16:37 Now, you can direct that at the person, but you're not asking him a question.
02:16:37 --> 02:16:40 You're making a statement based on the issue that's going forward.
02:16:40 --> 02:16:48 If you ask them a question, then your mic should be cut off and allow them to answer the question.
02:16:48 --> 02:16:51 That's how I would handle it if I was the chair of the committee.
02:16:51 --> 02:16:52 I don't matter, Democrat or Republican.
02:16:53 --> 02:16:57 It's like you as soon as I hear something that sounds like the question mark
02:16:57 --> 02:17:00 has been added to the sentence. Bam, you're on mute.
02:17:00 --> 02:17:03 I want to hear from the person that you asked the question to,
02:17:03 --> 02:17:08 because as a member of the committee, regardless, I want to hear the answer.
02:17:09 --> 02:17:15 Again, it may not be aligned with my political position, but if we subpoena,
02:17:15 --> 02:17:19 if my staff has subpoenaed this person to show up, then I want to hear what they have to say.
02:17:19 --> 02:17:23 I hear you every day. I work with you every day.
02:17:23 --> 02:17:27 I don't need to hear you. I need to hear this person that I may never ever see
02:17:27 --> 02:17:31 again in life because they took the time to show up in Washington,
02:17:31 --> 02:17:34 D.C., whether they work in Washington, D.C. or not.
02:17:34 --> 02:17:38 They showed up at the Capitol to testify. So I want to hear them testify.
02:17:39 --> 02:17:44 I don't want to hear, well, and then you cut them off. I don't want to hear that. All right.
02:17:45 --> 02:17:51 So anyway, he asked her. And so she's trying to give the answer and all this stuff.
02:17:51 --> 02:17:55 Now, she's offended because she realizes the only reason why he's asking these
02:17:55 --> 02:18:04 questions about Hamas or Hezbollah or Anwar or Iran is because she's Arab. That's it.
02:18:05 --> 02:18:12 Has nothing to do with, you know, whether, you know, her position is.
02:18:12 --> 02:18:17 It's just the fact that she is Arab, automatically she is a terrorist.
02:18:17 --> 02:18:20 That's basically what he was trying to paint at, right?
02:18:21 --> 02:18:27 And if you watch that testimony, she basically denounces Hamas.
02:18:27 --> 02:18:31 She denounces Hezbollah. She denounces Iran.
02:18:32 --> 02:18:37 The only thing she defended was UNWAR because she felt that UNWAR's funding
02:18:37 --> 02:18:42 shouldn't have been taken away because nine people did something corrupt.
02:18:43 --> 02:18:49 And it was the Biden administration who actually shut UNWAR down when they found out what was going on.
02:18:50 --> 02:18:58 And because there was there was a belief and I think it was proven that some
02:18:58 --> 02:19:01 people that were working on NWAR were actually connected with Hamas and connected
02:19:01 --> 02:19:05 with the attack on October 7th. So Biden shut that down.
02:19:05 --> 02:19:12 And then Trump and Elon Musk took all the money from him because it was their
02:19:12 --> 02:19:15 turn to determine whether it was going to be reinstated. Right.
02:19:16 --> 02:19:22 So that was the only thing she was really trying to defend was that UNWAR was
02:19:22 --> 02:19:26 bigger than those individuals who had screwed up. Right.
02:19:26 --> 02:19:31 And that there really needed to be a funding mechanism to make sure that people,
02:19:32 --> 02:19:38 Palestinian people, you know, got aid when they needed it. Right.
02:19:40 --> 02:19:43 And you could have just had that discussion about
02:19:43 --> 02:19:46 that and that would have been valid but to
02:19:46 --> 02:19:50 disparage her character and and then grandstand
02:19:50 --> 02:19:52 and just just feel you could see he
02:19:52 --> 02:19:59 was filling himself with the smirks and all just the pompous arrogance it was
02:19:59 --> 02:20:05 very very insulting I'm not even here and I was insulted I was livid I was like
02:20:05 --> 02:20:10 I would have walked out if you're not going to allow me to answer the question, why am I here? Right.
02:20:11 --> 02:20:16 And then he did something just recently with a college professor and you brought
02:20:16 --> 02:20:24 her in to talk about habeas corpus and about y'all want to introduce some legislation
02:20:24 --> 02:20:28 to stop judges from doing nationwide injunctions. Right.
02:20:29 --> 02:20:37 And Senator Kennedy told the professor, well, I don't, I discount everything that you say.
02:20:38 --> 02:20:44 Again, my retort would have been, well, why the hell did you have me come to Washington, D.C.
02:20:44 --> 02:20:47 If you don't give a damn about what I have to say?
02:20:47 --> 02:20:52 You could have said that anywhere you wanted to.
02:20:52 --> 02:20:57 I didn't have to waste my time and my money to fly to Washington, D.C.
02:20:58 --> 02:21:00 For you to tell me you don't want to hear what I got to say.
02:21:01 --> 02:21:04 You could never, you don't have to hear anything I could say because I could
02:21:04 --> 02:21:07 have stayed where I was because I think she's based out of New York or something.
02:21:08 --> 02:21:09 I could have stayed in New York.
02:21:10 --> 02:21:13 I don't know if it's New York, Chicago, somewhere, but she's not based in D.C. I know that.
02:21:15 --> 02:21:21 And I could have stayed where I was. In my case, Atlanta. I could have stayed in Atlanta.
02:21:22 --> 02:21:25 And everything had been fine. Since you're not going to pay attention to what
02:21:25 --> 02:21:28 I say anyway, why the hell did you bring me up here?
02:21:29 --> 02:21:33 Because you wanted to have a moment where you wanted to dress down a college professor?
02:21:33 --> 02:21:39 Because you wanted to dress down somebody that was a person of color? Right? Right.
02:21:40 --> 02:21:45 The hell with you. You're not that important. You are a terrible example of
02:21:45 --> 02:21:47 what a United States senator should be.
02:21:47 --> 02:21:50 I don't care what state you're from. I don't care if you're from Louisiana,
02:21:51 --> 02:21:56 Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Illinois, Montana, Wyoming. It don't matter.
02:21:57 --> 02:22:02 There's supposed to be a standard for those 100 people. The whole reason why
02:22:02 --> 02:22:08 the Senate was created was to have a balance between the House of Representatives,
02:22:08 --> 02:22:13 which is based on the population, based on the people, and the Senate,
02:22:13 --> 02:22:16 which is supposed to kind of temper things out.
02:22:16 --> 02:22:23 But when you act like a fool, then that is a disservice to the position of the
02:22:23 --> 02:22:26 United States Senate. Period. End of discussion.
02:22:27 --> 02:22:31 Now, I don't plan on living in Louisiana. I'm not going to ever vote for or against you.
02:22:32 --> 02:22:37 Right. But I know there's some people in Louisiana that do listen to this podcast.
02:22:37 --> 02:22:42 And I pray that Gary Chambers and all the other folks that are organizing and
02:22:42 --> 02:22:45 doing work in Louisiana do their best to get you out.
02:22:46 --> 02:22:49 I don't care if it's another Republican. I don't care if it's a Democrat.
02:22:50 --> 02:22:51 I don't care if it's independent.
02:22:51 --> 02:22:57 I don't care if it's Jill Stein. You got to go because you obviously do not
02:22:57 --> 02:22:59 understand the magnitude of the position you're in.
02:22:59 --> 02:23:04 And the less people we have of you, the better chance we have of having people
02:23:04 --> 02:23:09 with dignity, class and understand what American leadership is.
02:23:10 --> 02:23:15 These are the type of folks we got to get rid of. We got to get these people out of office, right?
02:23:16 --> 02:23:21 Because it's like even when disaster struck in Louisiana, I think it was when
02:23:21 --> 02:23:27 the person with the truck ran over all those people during the New Year's Eve
02:23:27 --> 02:23:31 celebration, like right before the bowl games and stuff,
02:23:31 --> 02:23:34 killed all those innocent folks.
02:23:35 --> 02:23:38 The sheriff, who happens to be, I think, the chief of police,
02:23:38 --> 02:23:41 you know, law enforcement, they were people of color.
02:23:41 --> 02:23:44 Women, by the way, it seems like he's got a real problem with women, too.
02:23:45 --> 02:23:49 But it's like they're sitting there talking about what's going on and all the
02:23:49 --> 02:23:51 questions are going to them.
02:23:51 --> 02:23:53 And then he just literally does a Montenegro.
02:23:54 --> 02:23:58 And if you don't know what a Montenegro is, when Donald Trump went to NATO the
02:23:58 --> 02:24:04 first time and he wasn't in the front of the line for the group picture,
02:24:04 --> 02:24:07 He literally grabbed the shoulder of the president of Montenegro and pushed
02:24:07 --> 02:24:09 him aside and jumped to the front of the line.
02:24:10 --> 02:24:14 So I call that the Montenegro, the move, because it's like, you know,
02:24:15 --> 02:24:19 you just basically did a Montenegro and push these law enforcement who know
02:24:19 --> 02:24:21 more about the situation than you'll ever know.
02:24:22 --> 02:24:27 You push them aside just so you get to the microphone and just bluster about what.
02:24:27 --> 02:24:33 This was your last shot at Biden because the election was over. We're about to do this.
02:24:34 --> 02:24:36 You know, transition to power.
02:24:36 --> 02:24:44 But you want to blame Biden for this dude driving a truck through Bourbon Street, the French Quarter.
02:24:44 --> 02:24:47 See, that's the kind of ignorance we can't afford to have.
02:24:47 --> 02:24:53 That's why it's hard for people that come on this podcast and trying to do the
02:24:53 --> 02:24:59 work and build community up, because we got to deal with elected officials like you, Mr. Kennedy.
02:25:00 --> 02:25:08 And it's just sad as you saw it as you saw it it really is sad you know and
02:25:08 --> 02:25:10 I get it I wanted to be a U.S.
02:25:10 --> 02:25:16 Senator I ran twice I understand the prestige of the position but.
02:25:18 --> 02:25:22 I don't think buttholes should be given a position of prestige.
02:25:23 --> 02:25:27 I think you need to be given a position appropriate with your character.
02:25:28 --> 02:25:34 Whatever it is, it's not the United States. And I've just been frustrated.
02:25:34 --> 02:25:38 But then I remember that I started this podcast because I was frustrated with
02:25:38 --> 02:25:40 what President Trump was doing.
02:25:40 --> 02:25:44 And I just used to vent and just used to gripe. And then my friend said, do a podcast.
02:25:44 --> 02:25:49 And so I noticed that I've really not been dealing with individuals and all
02:25:49 --> 02:25:58 that stuff, but I had to go back to my roots because every time I see this guy, he just aggravates me.
02:25:58 --> 02:26:04 If he was a member of the legislature when I served, I would try to avoid him as much as possible.
02:26:05 --> 02:26:09 He was representing Amit or Wilkerson County. I was like, bro,
02:26:09 --> 02:26:12 y'all got to send somebody else to talk to me about what y'all need because
02:26:12 --> 02:26:13 I'm not dealing with him.
02:26:14 --> 02:26:19 I wouldn't vote for nothing if it was based off of him because he's such a pain.
02:26:20 --> 02:26:23 And I'm sure there's some people in the Senate, Democrats and Republicans,
02:26:23 --> 02:26:28 oh, well, you know, you just don't really know the guy and he's this and he's that, bro.
02:26:28 --> 02:26:33 Every time he's on camera and he shows his ass, that's him.
02:26:33 --> 02:26:38 That's who he is. And I think it's a disservice to the people of Louisiana and
02:26:38 --> 02:26:43 a disservice to the people of the United States of America that you are allowed
02:26:43 --> 02:26:45 to carry yourself in that way.
02:26:45 --> 02:26:50 Now, there's others that I can get to. Right.
02:26:50 --> 02:26:56 But this one, I guess because he's from the South, that's why it just,
02:26:56 --> 02:27:00 oh, I just cannot stand them type of Southern people.
02:27:01 --> 02:27:07 And Miss Jane, I'm trying, I'm trying. So, you know, he's non-melanated,
02:27:07 --> 02:27:10 he's melanonic, he's my light-skinned cousin.
02:27:12 --> 02:27:16 I just can't stand Southerners like that. You know, it just goes back to the
02:27:16 --> 02:27:20 when I was 11 and watched Roots.
02:27:20 --> 02:27:24 You know what I'm saying? It goes back to all the documentaries I used to watch,
02:27:24 --> 02:27:27 even the fictionalized movies like Mississippi Burning and A Time to Kill.
02:27:28 --> 02:27:31 Just those kind of people, those southerners.
02:27:32 --> 02:27:37 They're perfect villains. And we don't need villains in the United States Senate.
02:27:37 --> 02:27:43 We don't. I don't want to wish ill on anybody, but I do think that people that
02:27:43 --> 02:27:48 don't deserve to be in office do not need to be in office. Good people lose elections.
02:27:48 --> 02:27:51 Bad people definitely should lose elections.
02:27:52 --> 02:27:56 Period. End of discussion. If it's a battle between the two good people,
02:27:56 --> 02:27:57 you know, best person wins.
02:27:58 --> 02:28:02 But if it's the difference between a good person and a bad person,
02:28:02 --> 02:28:08 the bad person should lose every time, even if they fool people into thinking
02:28:08 --> 02:28:10 that they're good, right?
02:28:10 --> 02:28:18 Because I don't see what could he say as he's campaigning that makes you think,
02:28:18 --> 02:28:21 oh, yeah, this is the guy, right?
02:28:21 --> 02:28:28 I used to love to go and listen to other colleagues give their stump speeches
02:28:28 --> 02:28:33 in their respected district or just visit and watch them talking to a group or whatever.
02:28:33 --> 02:28:39 So I kind of had a sense about, OK, that's how that person got elected.
02:28:39 --> 02:28:41 I see how they roll, you know.
02:28:41 --> 02:28:47 So I just want to imagine because I'm sure there's people that he's I mean, he's got family.
02:28:48 --> 02:28:51 So family loves them. Family loves everybody. Family loves family,
02:28:51 --> 02:28:53 for the most part. That's how it works.
02:28:54 --> 02:28:58 So I know there's people that love him. I know there's people that went to school
02:28:58 --> 02:29:01 with him. They're friends. Excuse me.
02:29:03 --> 02:29:09 So somewhere he has the capability of being a normal human being,
02:29:10 --> 02:29:16 except when he gets into that chair in the Senate or he gets in front of a microphone.
02:29:17 --> 02:29:22 And then this beast comes out, this evil person who has no empathy,
02:29:23 --> 02:29:27 no care, no respect for persons.
02:29:28 --> 02:29:30 And he's probably a smart dude.
02:29:31 --> 02:29:38 I, you know, I'm just, I'm just, you know, but not every smart person needs
02:29:38 --> 02:29:43 to be elected because there's a lot of smart people that don't know how to deal
02:29:43 --> 02:29:44 with other human beings.
02:29:46 --> 02:29:51 They just don't. And it just bothers me because I remember, you know,
02:29:51 --> 02:29:56 when I was an elected official, you know, it was like, Fleming, you're a hothead.
02:29:56 --> 02:30:00 I literally had somebody call when I was moving to Atlanta. Now,
02:30:01 --> 02:30:05 somebody called an elected official, I guess, because they thought I was going
02:30:05 --> 02:30:09 to try to get a lobbying job and basically said, well, you know,
02:30:09 --> 02:30:11 that Fleming kid, he's a hothead.
02:30:12 --> 02:30:16 You know what I'm saying? Now, you know, I have my moments. I ain't going to lie.
02:30:17 --> 02:30:22 You know, I get you can tell from even this little rant I'm doing now.
02:30:22 --> 02:30:25 I could go if I need to, you know.
02:30:26 --> 02:30:33 But I wasn't to the point where I was unreasonable with people when it came to policy and politics.
02:30:33 --> 02:30:38 You might have thought that if you were on the opposite side, but I really wasn't.
02:30:40 --> 02:30:45 But I know I wasn't perfect. And I didn't get to stay for 20-some years in office either.
02:30:45 --> 02:30:49 It was like after nine years that people made a decision, it was time for me to move on.
02:30:49 --> 02:30:54 I was very fortunate to be elected official for nine years. I was very fortunate
02:30:54 --> 02:31:00 to be the Democratic nominee twice for the United States Senate and,
02:31:00 --> 02:31:02 you know, to get the votes that I got.
02:31:02 --> 02:31:06 But I know I'm not perfect. And I'm self-conscious about that.
02:31:07 --> 02:31:11 And I try to do my best to be my best. Right?
02:31:13 --> 02:31:18 But when you're not making the effort, when you just are too comfortable in
02:31:18 --> 02:31:23 your absurdity, then it's time for you to go because that's not what the United
02:31:23 --> 02:31:24 States Senate is set up for.
02:31:24 --> 02:31:27 That's not what the United States House of Representatives is set up for.
02:31:27 --> 02:31:31 That's not what the presidency of the United States is set up for.
02:31:31 --> 02:31:33 It's not set up for people like that.
02:31:33 --> 02:31:38 It's set up for people who will do the best they can with the belief system
02:31:38 --> 02:31:44 they have to make a difference, make an improvement, and to do no harm to the
02:31:44 --> 02:31:47 citizens of the United States of America. That's what that is.
02:31:47 --> 02:31:51 That's what American leadership is in a nutshell.
02:31:51 --> 02:31:54 And John Neely Kennedy, you are not that guy.
02:31:55 --> 02:32:02 And, you know, Mr. Chambers and I have not met. I have reached out to him to be on the podcast.
02:32:03 --> 02:32:09 I know people that know him, and if he's listening, if he just happens to come
02:32:09 --> 02:32:11 across, I pray, brother,
02:32:12 --> 02:32:17 that if you can't get nobody else out, please get John Neely Kennedy out of
02:32:17 --> 02:32:20 that United States Senate, even if you've got to run yourself.
02:32:22 --> 02:32:26 And just the people of Louisiana. I don't care if you're in Shreveport,
02:32:26 --> 02:32:31 Monroe, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Lafayette. I don't care.
02:32:33 --> 02:32:37 Houma, Nacogdoches. I don't care. Get this guy out.
02:32:38 --> 02:32:41 Do not give him another shot at this thing.
02:32:42 --> 02:32:47 He should be, I guess maybe, let me see. Did he get reelected?
02:32:47 --> 02:32:52 I guess he got reelected already. He got reelected in 22. So.
02:32:53 --> 02:32:59 So he'll be up during the presidential election in 26. I mean, 28.
02:33:00 --> 02:33:09 So we've got four years, three and a half to to put together a person or a group of people.
02:33:11 --> 02:33:16 To not let him be even in the runoff, right?
02:33:17 --> 02:33:24 Just send him home. Let him do his foghorn leghorn imitation to his grandkids
02:33:24 --> 02:33:27 and his great-grandkids and leave the rest of America out of it.
02:33:27 --> 02:33:29 Stop insulting people of color.
02:33:29 --> 02:33:32 Stop disrespecting women. Stop being a butthole.
02:33:32 --> 02:33:37 Now, if you can do that, and maybe I might reconsider your position,
02:33:37 --> 02:33:41 but you're older than me, So you're more set in your ways.
02:33:41 --> 02:33:43 So yeah, no thanks.
02:33:44 --> 02:33:46 We got to do better, y'all.
02:33:48 --> 02:33:52 And to those people who support that guy or think that he's decent,
02:33:52 --> 02:33:57 you may not think it's fair for me to criticize him like that. So be it.
02:33:57 --> 02:34:02 I'm just tired, y'all. I'm just tired. I'm just aggravated with the insensitivity.
02:34:04 --> 02:34:11 I'm aggravated with the uncouthness. I'm just aggravated with the foolishness. I'm just tired.
02:34:12 --> 02:34:19 And I don't have to accept that. Not on my podcast, not in my life.
02:34:19 --> 02:34:20 I don't have to accept that.
02:34:21 --> 02:34:26 You don't have to agree with me, but damn it, respect me as a human being.
02:34:27 --> 02:34:29 Respect others as human beings.
02:34:30 --> 02:34:34 Be a man, not a little whiny baby.
02:34:35 --> 02:34:39 Jennifer Welch has another name for him I'm not going to do that I think they
02:34:39 --> 02:34:41 should trademark that actually.
02:34:43 --> 02:34:50 I've had a crew Miss Welch and Miss Sullivan I'm not going to use their terminology
02:34:50 --> 02:34:54 but he would fall in that category right,
02:34:55 --> 02:35:00 and you know there are other podcasts that pretty much will use more colorful
02:35:00 --> 02:35:03 language than me I'm trying to be restrained,
02:35:05 --> 02:35:09 But, yeah, enough of this stuff.
02:35:10 --> 02:35:11 Kennedy either has to have a
02:35:11 --> 02:35:16 Damascus Road experience or he needs to be on the road back to Louisiana.
02:35:17 --> 02:35:18 Period. End of discussion.
02:35:20 --> 02:35:25 All right, guys. That's the end of my rant. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.
02:35:27 --> 02:36:13 Music.
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