[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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[00:01:20] Hello and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
[00:01:41] And I'm really excited about this particular podcast. I hope that y'all are excited about the podcast
[00:01:52] every time it comes up. But I'm really excited because I got to interview two ladies
[00:02:02] who, for lack of a better term, are hell-races in a good way.
[00:02:11] One is old school and one is in the middle of the struggle now.
[00:02:17] But when you hear their interviews, you understand why I said what I said and I say it with affection.
[00:02:25] Because in this time we need some people that are going to raise them hell for good
[00:02:32] as opposed to the counter that a lot of us have been dealing with, especially in politics.
[00:02:41] So I'm really, really excited. I really hope that y'all enjoy this podcast.
[00:02:49] But before we get started on anything, it is time for a moment of news with Grace G.
[00:03:13] The US Congress approved a $95 billion aid package for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan.
[00:03:33] US Secretary of State Antony Blinken did not confirm reports of an Israeli attack in Iran,
[00:03:39] but emphasized the US's non-involvement and commitment to de-escalation in the region.
[00:03:44] The Arizona House of Representatives repealed an 1864 ban on abortion that was revived by the state Supreme Court.
[00:03:53] Tennessee lawmakers passed a bill allowing teachers to carry concealed handguns in schools amidst vocal opposition and protest.
[00:04:01] 15 members of the Kennedy family endorsed President Joe Biden in Philadelphia,
[00:04:07] rebuking Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s independent candidacy.
[00:04:11] The University of Southern California, citing security concerns,
[00:04:15] canceled all outside speakers and honorees for its main commencement ceremony
[00:04:19] after controversy over the revocation of a valedictorian speech by a Muslim student, Asna Tabasim.
[00:04:26] Hundreds of pro-Palestinian protesters were arrested at Columbia University.
[00:04:30] Yale University and New York University after setting up encampments on their respective campuses.
[00:04:36] The US Justice Department reached a $138.7 million settlement with victims of Larry Nasser's sexual abuse crimes.
[00:04:45] The Republican National Committee announced a program to fight voter fraud for the November election.
[00:04:51] The Biden administration announced a rule to extend mandatory overtime pay to approximately 4 million salaried workers.
[00:04:59] And US Representative Donald Paine Jr. of New Jersey died at the age of 65.
[00:05:06] I am Grace G. And this has been a moment of news.
[00:05:14] Alright, thank you Grace for that moment of news.
[00:05:22] And now it is time for my first guest, Marty Davis.
[00:05:26] Marty Davis has basically been in the journalism business since 1971.
[00:05:36] She started in Detroit and she worked at Market for like seven years.
[00:05:43] And then she transitioned to be a DC-based network TV news anchor and reporter.
[00:05:52] She even was the news person. Some of you might be old enough to remember she was the news person for Larry King's radio show.
[00:06:02] She's been a talk radio host. She's been a news anchor even for urban radio news.
[00:06:10] She's been a print journalist and she had a blog in 2007 to 2014 called Chikaboo.com.
[00:06:21] She received her MA in journalism from American University in Washington, DC.
[00:06:29] And she was actually a spouse of a member of Congress.
[00:06:36] So ladies and gentlemen, when I say that it is truly an honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Marty Davis.
[00:06:45] I truly mean it. Ladies and gentlemen, Marty Davis.
[00:06:49] Alright, Marty Davis. How you doing ma'am? You doing good?
[00:07:08] I am doing excellent Eric as always.
[00:07:11] Well, it is I'm really, really honored to have you on.
[00:07:17] Your style of journalism when you were really, really active in it.
[00:07:22] You had like you had a contemporary that I used to like to name Molly Ivins.
[00:07:29] And you know the style of journalism is more or less like, you know, you got a little you got a little cynicism tied in with the factual thing.
[00:07:42] But it was it was kind of relief because a lot of people look at politics in a cynical way, and they can relate to it that way.
[00:07:52] And some of the stuff that we deal with.
[00:07:56] If you can't laugh at it, then it's going to make you cry.
[00:08:02] So I really respected you and Molly and others that were like that that kind of and being a former politician.
[00:08:11] You know, to put us in our place and make sure that we do what we're supposed to do which is no harm to the community.
[00:08:18] So I thank you for for what you contributed.
[00:08:24] One of the things that I like to do is to throw out a quote at my guests just to kind of get the conversation going.
[00:08:33] So your quote is this, if change isn't making things better.
[00:08:39] It's time for change.
[00:08:41] What does that quote mean to you?
[00:08:43] I can relate that to my 12 step program because the whole idea about 12 steps is that one must change.
[00:08:56] And I have my own little quotes live in the solution, not the problem.
[00:09:03] Own your power. Don't give it away to any person, place or thing.
[00:09:07] And all of this is is a journey to illumination and involvement through change.
[00:09:17] It's really important on a human level.
[00:09:20] Now on other levels, obviously the society is changing and it's always going to change.
[00:09:29] The society will evolve.
[00:09:32] And I'm just, I remember McDonald's had a saying that I liked a lot.
[00:09:39] It was one of their tag lines. Change is good.
[00:09:44] And I'm all about change and I'm all about helping other humans change for the better, have healthy relationships, whether it be personal or professional.
[00:09:59] This is in my twilight years Eric, this is my mission.
[00:10:05] So speaking about change, how is politics different now than it was when you started reporting or even when your husband was in Congress?
[00:10:15] Because that's one of the unique things about you is that not only did you deal with politics with a certain lens, but you had to experience it.
[00:10:24] Because your husband was actually a member of Congress.
[00:10:28] So what do you think, well, what is the biggest change that you've seen as far as where we are in politics and the discourse and all that stuff?
[00:10:43] To me, the landmark event was when Ross Perot went on Larry King's show.
[00:10:53] And I remember riding around with Larry, I worked with Larry. I was his news anchor at a network and I remember riding around with him.
[00:11:04] And he couldn't believe what was happening to him. He shot through the stratosphere.
[00:11:10] And what happened was the landscape changed in politics where politics was suddenly on talk radio, cable news obviously Eric, you know that is nothing more than talk TV.
[00:11:27] So Ross Perot goes on Larry's show. And I believe it was 92. Then Clinton, and then the advent of cable news. You already had CNN but CNN was straight news.
[00:11:45] And then we had Arthur the stud Kent reporting from the war zones and everything. And I didn't know what happened was Fox and MSNBC went on the air in 1996.
[00:12:00] Now MSNBC started as a computer.
[00:12:04] And it was a computer type show, because it was a partnership with Microsoft. And I remember Soledad O'Brien hosting a computer show on MSNBC. I don't know if you recall that but I certainly do.
[00:12:20] And that was in 1996. And to me that and the internet and social media change politics.
[00:12:34] When I got there, it was Washington was a sleepy southern town. You had Tip O'Neill was speaker of the house he swore in my late husband.
[00:12:46] And a whole different vibe there. Democrats and Republicans got along. There was camaraderie. It was, it was incredibly different.
[00:13:02] I've seen it, I've seen it change obviously over the years. And to me, it has not been for the better.
[00:13:13] And it's this discord. The attacks from both sides are just beyond comprehension to me. However, I understand why and how it's evolved from when we got there in 1978 to now.
[00:13:38] And it's very disturbing to me Eric. I'm concerned. I really am concerned about the direction that media and politics are moving.
[00:13:51] There's always been and you know this, there's always been a blur between journalists and politics and politicians.
[00:14:01] However, you know that I don't think anyone can point the finger at that and say oh bias or whatever. It's just the way DC works.
[00:14:13] However, I don't know where this thing is going. Honestly Eric, I don't know where politics is going. I just don't like the ranker and the accusations.
[00:14:28] I don't like advocacy journalism, which isn't journalism but it's just to me. It's not the era I grew up in. Walter Cronkite.
[00:14:43] That was my era growing up with a half hour newscast. And now I wouldn't want to be in my business for anything. I would never want to go back into television Eric because I don't want to be part of that.
[00:15:00] Yeah, I honestly don't want to be part of it.
[00:15:04] Yeah, it seems as though and you brought up the important point in the timeline that once we started having channels that became opinion channels in the public discourse.
[00:15:22] I blame it on crossfire because see you talk about Walter Cronkite and all that. I remember shows like Fire in Lime when they came to University of Mississippi Ole Miss to do a show.
[00:15:35] I was there. Me and a couple of my friends, we went up there to see the taping because when you saw William F. Buckley and Kenneth Galbraith and Morris Kinsey and all those guys come on and then staying up to watch the McLaughlin group.
[00:15:55] Those were the shows where you learned something, you had an opinion and you say okay, well here's somebody that can articulate what I believe in and listen to what the counter was and everybody got along.
[00:16:11] Everybody respected each other for their opinions. Now it's like, especially when you add social media in it and it just seems as though that it's getting more divisive.
[00:16:25] Then it is productive. Is that kind of your take on it?
[00:16:30] You're absolutely correct. I remember watching those shows. McLaughlin, Martin Agronski. When my daughter was a baby, we watched it every Saturday and she would sit there and wave her hands to the intro music.
[00:16:48] She was so used to watching Agronski. I understand exactly what you're saying and it was in a space where everyone knew that that was the space.
[00:17:05] Agronski, McLaughlin, Crossfire. That's the space for that sort of programming. However now it's everywhere. It's absolutely everywhere and that's the thing.
[00:17:21] Opinion has permeated all media. It comes from negativity because human beings come from a fear-based ego if you want to analyze it.
[00:17:40] On social media, whether you be a reporter or just somebody writing a comment on Twitter or X as it's called now, people are in... they're just in negative spaces and it's just human nature to be there.
[00:17:58] I don't know. I'm just so discouraged and frustrated with what's happened with the media and politics. It depresses me, Eric. I don't want to watch it at night.
[00:18:16] I've been watching British cop shows, swimming British cop shows because I don't want to watch this stuff. And I'll tell you, I think the fault lies in Fox News because Ailes came on and he dressed these women in skimpy outfits, high heels and short skirts and out of the blue.
[00:18:46] I understand why he did it to get eyeballs. Yeah, you'll get eyeballs and he brought people on like the annoying Bill Riley who got huge numbers. You know what I'm saying.
[00:19:01] And I have to finger Fox News for a lot of this.
[00:19:05] See, Bill Riley... I used to look at Bill Riley as the guy that was sitting at the end of the bar and he was just talking loud about what he didn't like. You know what I'm saying? Kind of like an Archie Bunker type character.
[00:19:21] And then, you know, and daring people to chime in to his rant or whatever. And Fox News just put that on television and said, okay, this is political discourse.
[00:19:32] And you know, the thing I didn't like about Crossfire was like when you put Paul Bogalia on and Tucker Carlson and all this stuff. And the best episode to me across fire is when John Stewart came in and was like, he was calling BS on both of them. You know what I'm saying?
[00:19:49] But to me it devolved. It didn't raise the level of the show. It got worse. And so did the national conversation.
[00:20:04] Which kind of leads me to where we are now dealing with this trial with a former US president, Donald Trump. What's your take on... I know that you said that CNN and MSC were basically having an intellectual orgasm based on the coverage.
[00:20:33] Like this was their moment, you know? But I mean overall, how are we at a point where a guy who was president of the United States is now on trial for doing something that probably if he had done it a different way, we never would even know about it.
[00:20:58] But how is it that we're at this moment where you've got a former president, not only for this trial but he's got all these things and yet in all these indictments, but yet still he seems to be as popular as he ever was. What's your take on all that?
[00:21:15] I'll tell you about Trump. I've analyzed his personality. The guy is a narcissist, perhaps a sociopath. Sociopaths express a lot of emotions. I have never ever ever in all my analysis, informal analysis of other people, I have never seen anyone like him.
[00:21:42] And O'Reilly is, I analyzed him too. But no, I just... And the irony as you brought up Eric, he's still so popular. He said that, you know, what did he say? He could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and his poll numbers keep going up.
[00:22:11] There is a segment obviously of the population, if one is to believe the poll data, that believes Trump is being set up. He's been set up from the time they say he went down the escalator, he even says it in 2015.
[00:22:32] I see, I do see some unfairness here. I see that some of the trial aspects, the BRAG trial, I don't... I'm predicting that Trump will get off on that. It just doesn't seem to pass the legal smell test in my humble opinion, especially since it was passed on before by other New York prosecutors.
[00:23:02] I was watching the arguments at the Supreme Court over Trump's immunity. I don't know how that's going to end up. I just... It appears to me, and I'm trying to stand back and look at this, that Trump is being set up with all these trials which are interfering with his ability to campaign
[00:23:31] to make it difficult or nearly impossible for him to campaign for the 2024 presidency. I'm not going to point any fingers at anyone. However, you know, all you got to do is step back and look at this thing.
[00:23:53] One after the other, whether he's guilty or not, the Jack Smith prosecution in DC. I don't know. I don't know if there's bias involved here, Eric, but it appears to be and a double standard for other public officials.
[00:24:15] Let me ask you this. Since you brought up double standard, do you think that some of the stuff is related to him being in office or running for office? A lot of the things.
[00:24:32] I don't know if there are any other things, but say for example the situation... The case where he lost and it was said that he had committed fraud on his business dealings and all that, and he's got to pay 400-some million dollars on that.
[00:24:49] Do you think if he had never run for president that any of that would have came out that he would just be able to continue to do business the way he's been doing, whether a court says he's committed fraud or not?
[00:25:04] Do you think if he had never ran or never won even, that trial would have even happened? Or the Eugene Carroll trial, for example.
[00:25:13] I agree with you. You're talking about the Letitia James case, the New York O.G.
[00:25:21] No, not at all. The attempts are out there and have been to destroy this man. And whether you agree with him or not, this is to me it's obvious.
[00:25:39] And as far as Eugene Carroll, I've been in Bergdorf-Goodman dressing rooms. There is no way that anyone would get raped in a Bergdorf-Goodman dressing room.
[00:25:53] And to fight somebody off. When Jack Kemp was HUD secretary, he was a friend of my husband's and me too. I went over there. I don't know what it was. He asked me to come over there.
[00:26:09] And he tried to do the same thing to me as Trump, except he had succeeded. And remember this guy was a Buffalo Bill's quarterback.
[00:26:20] I didn't fight him off. I just pushed him out of my way and opened the door and walked out as he had his hand on the door. He could have, you know, give me a break.
[00:26:34] I have a hard time believing the Eugene Carroll story because she could have fought that scream. She said she was embarrassed. That's why she didn't do it.
[00:26:47] But I know I'm sort of getting off on a different area here. I just have a hard time believing it. The other stuff, yeah, Stormy Daniels and anyone else that he has been accused of this kind of behavior.
[00:27:09] Yeah, I'll believe that.
[00:27:11] Well, you know, okay go ahead Eric.
[00:27:15] No, let's let's explore that because seeing you know being of a certain generation, you're a little older than me, not much but a little older. And so you and Eugene Carroll are basically contemporary.
[00:27:33] So, you know, you describe the situation where it's like you had somebody that was like trying to and you just kind of push it away. And Eugene, you know, probably could have done the same thing to the, I guess what I'm trying to say is that your your your viewpoint of it is based on the culture of that time and
[00:27:57] what you as a woman had to deal with as opposed to now with the me too movement and all that kind of stuff it was it was a different environment because I've heard you mentioned about Gloria Steinem and and all those things.
[00:28:12] So your, your problem with her story is Ms Carol story is that. Yeah, we were we were brought up like if some dude was trying to do that is like look get out of my way I got time for it and keep it moving.
[00:28:27] And you're. So that's why you have some questions about it.
[00:28:32] I'm also a badass so you know I don't suffer.
[00:28:37] I don't suffer fools gladly. I just don't during coven in March of 2020 I had a mask made up it was black with white embroidery and it said badass and I, I wore it all over the place I went to hold food.
[00:28:52] And it was just fun because it was a fun thing for me to do. However, it describes my, my personality and maybe e Jean isn't I don't have any shame or guilt I'm not thinking about all of my screen, then whatever I'll do what it takes to
[00:29:10] I'm not going to extricate myself from, from a situation, whether it be that kind of situation or anything else. She may not be like that. She may not be like that. Yeah. And you know, that's just that's just not the way I am.
[00:29:27] That's the way. Yeah, even though I grew up in that era where we were supposed to be differential to men and and it was a, as you know, it was a whole different trip for women back then because you're only a couple years younger than me.
[00:29:42] Right.
[00:29:43] Right. So, yeah, but I just wanted to highlight that point and it's kind of ironic you threw up Whole Foods because there's actually a lawsuit going where this employee is challenging Whole Foods because she had a mask on it said black lives matter and they said, oh, you can't wear that.
[00:30:00] So, you know, you definitely you definitely are badass you walked up and hold but you weren't working for Whole Foods. So that's a whole nother come.
[00:30:07] No, no, I remember the lawsuit's been reinstated hasn't it. That's right. That's right. Yeah, just did that. The black lives matter.
[00:30:16] I get, I get that that's a I get that it's all a matter of projecting a certain image to the client base. I get that I don't know what's going to happen with that lawsuit but hey nobody was coming after me.
[00:30:36] All right, so real quick. I want to I want to get your viewpoint. We may not get to some of the other things I wanted to talk about but I definitely want to get your viewpoint of what's going on on these college campuses.
[00:30:49] There are people who are saying that, you know, these these protests are are no different than the protests during Vietnam or, you know, where, you know, these young folks are expressing a political opinion.
[00:31:07] And, you know, they just they're trying to get their voices heard. What do you how do you you made a statement that you were a love child back in the day that you were a hippie and and you don't necessarily agree with that observation.
[00:31:26] Not at all. I'm outraged because what this is, it reminds me of Nazi Germany.
[00:31:37] There were similar protests in German universities at that time.
[00:31:43] And this goes way beyond free speech.
[00:31:48] This is is not only does it go beyond free speech. These students are being coached by radical Islamist like one particular guy who is member of the Palestinian.
[00:32:05] I wrote about it but I don't remember the group and his wife, they gave a two hour seminar at Columbia called resistance 101.
[00:32:16] These groups are being infiltrated these protests, or riots or whatever you want to call it by outside agitators at which, if you go back to Vietnam you're going to have the same sort of thing outside agitators coming in and stirring the pot.
[00:32:35] My concern is that it's, it's anti semitism. These Jews are being marginalized and threatened.
[00:32:46] And classes at Columbia, for example, are now online.
[00:32:54] Rabbi they are told the Jews Jewish students to go students to go home. This, this just doesn't compare to the 1960s love ends, the Vietnam War protests.
[00:33:11] Some people are liking it to occupy Wall Street I saw somebody on Fox Dana Perino saying this is occupy Wall Street. No it's not, you know that's insane.
[00:33:23] As far as a 1968 Chicago convention, it's, it still goes way beyond that. And there are some predicting that that these people will descend on Chicago during the Democratic Convention.
[00:33:37] I don't know what's going to happen there. I just see. I just see a whole. The protest has just been jacked up about 1000%.
[00:33:51] I'm just reminiscent, and I'll repeat it of Nazi Germany. Jews are being persecuted. They're being threatened. They're forced to leave colleges.
[00:34:08] When some guy starts screaming I am Hamas. I mean, what are you supposed to think? What are you supposed to think this is not a protest against the war. Yeah, it's a protest against Israel.
[00:34:23] What Israel's doing with Gaza and Palestine. It is a protest to get well it's not a war really but you understand what I'm saying. Yeah, this has been going on forever. This sort of thing the antagonism between Israel and the Palestinians and the Muslims in the Middle East.
[00:34:46] So what do you say? Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Finish. No, no, you go ahead. So what do you say to those those students who say yeah there are some folks out here that's mixed in with us they're doing that we're not affiliate with them.
[00:35:03] We've been trying to make sure that they're not part of what we're saying is that we're concerned about how Israel has gone about re retaliating to Hamas and you've got all these people that are homeless and you've got this this man made famine that's happened.
[00:35:26] And we don't think the United States should do it. You know, she's supported and you know they they they they basically said that we've tried other means. And this is the only way that we can bring attention to the issue.
[00:35:44] What what is your response when a lot of those students are saying those those agitators don't represent what we're trying to say.
[00:35:54] Now when you have the, the kingpin of the Columbia protest, writing on Twitter.
[00:36:04] And this is the guy who was orchestrating all of this.
[00:36:13] Adrian.
[00:36:16] He's saying these things and I don't understand. There's a disconnect from from the people who say that that's not what the case is, but then you've got this guy who is bashing Jews on X, and other, you know, have a good day, but not for the Jews.
[00:36:40] It's anti Semitism in my humble opinion, and I understand the issue Eric of what's happening in Gaza. The homelessness, the food shortages and everything like that I get that.
[00:36:58] And I have some semblance of compassion for that. However, and Israel certainly has had its issues with the way it's handling this thing.
[00:37:12] I just, I have to get back to these protests because how many colleges are there with these protests 225.
[00:37:25] You don't see any in the south, but I don't think but the one at the Texas.
[00:37:32] How many you had a rest into it.
[00:37:37] In California. Right, you just had some at USC and there and that's a whole other controversy going on about the valedictorian and all that stuff.
[00:37:47] Oh yeah, yeah the Vell valedictorian. I don't know I just, I don't, I see this thing mushrooming into something, unless it's quelled.
[00:37:59] I see it mushrooming into something really evil.
[00:38:07] Yeah. Yeah, and that's always kind of the danger about those kind of movements. Well look with it.
[00:38:13] I'm pressed for time and this is the reason why I wanted to have you on because, you know, just to, you know how, how clear your thinking and how you, you know, articulate what you're observing.
[00:38:30] But I did want to get it so I'm gonna tie in two questions in the one.
[00:38:35] What do you think about this whole, because you had mentioned Ross Perot earlier what do you think about this whole Robert F. Kennedy junior deal running and based on that who's going to win in your opinion who do you think is going to going to pull this off in the in November.
[00:38:58] Well certainly RFK juniors family is not in favor of this coming out with Biden announcing you know, we're not supporting you. I see, I see other polls that say that Trump is concerned now that RFK junior is going to eat into his, his
[00:39:26] family here and hurt his campaign before the conventional thinking was that RFK junior would hurt Biden. Now, I don't trust polls. I stopped trusting polls when I was anchoring network news radio in 1980.
[00:39:46] And I was reading a peak copy that I folded into my script saying that the race is too close to call. Well, as you well know Reagan Reagan killed Carter in a landslide and I have not trust trusted polls since then Eric, even though they're more sophisticated.
[00:40:11] Right. So I don't know it depends on where the polls coming. Who do I think is going to win. I, if I were a betting woman and I'm not I would say, I would say Trump.
[00:40:29] Yeah. So despite all of the stuff that's going on with him. He's he's gonna he's going to get the electoral votes needed to pull this off that's your your observation.
[00:40:39] I think so. I think Biden is he has a lot of challenges, especially his obvious cognitive cascading.
[00:40:51] And I don't I don't think he'll debate Trump and he's offered excuses as to why he's already breezing the skids for bailing on a debate that. Well, it depends on how he behaves and whatever he's a criminal I'm not going to debate a criminal.
[00:41:10] There are a lot of issues with Biden however he's got. He's got the media and he's got the political machine, the Democratic political machine he's got big tech behind him I don't know you know it's really a crap shoot.
[00:41:29] Obviously but if I if I, I would say Trump's going to pull this out and I don't know why. But you know my psychic instinct is that he'll pull it out. Don't ask me.
[00:41:44] So I know that you have your crystal ball out a lot of times on LinkedIn if people want to tap into your crystal ball that people want to connect with you and get your insights how can people get in touch with you.
[00:41:58] Well they can email me at marty's orbit at yahoo.com m a r t y s orbit at yahoo.com. That would be the easiest way I'm also on Facebook, I just went back on Facebook after years because I didn't like Facebook for posting unsolicited content.
[00:42:23] So I'm on there I think I think it's Marty C Davis. I think that's what it is. And yeah, people want to write me whatever. I'm always up to connect with other human beings and I'd certainly be gratified if some of them do decide they want to connect with me.
[00:42:46] And I appreciate what everyone has to say I, I read everyone's comments on LinkedIn.
[00:42:53] I answer some of them. I think it's really important to keep the conversation going in in these difficult times full of challenges.
[00:43:06] Well, Marty Davis I am again I am honored to have you on. I wish we had more time because we could probably talk for a long time about what's going on. But for this brief moment that we did have I really appreciate you coming on the podcast thank you.
[00:43:23] I am grateful, Eric and flattered and honored that you would even approach me. You have no idea I was just so thrilled when you did. And I just felt, I felt on cloud nine that you would even consider me.
[00:43:39] Well, thank you again. I appreciate it. All right guys, and we'll catch all on the other side.
[00:44:05] All right, and we are back. So now it's time for my next guest, Madien Holmes.
[00:44:14] The Dean Holmes grew up and has a rich history in Denver, Colorado. She recalls stories and experiences in her childhood filled with racial tensions.
[00:44:25] Some events were in the national spotlight and others were casual occurrences in her classroom or neighborhood.
[00:44:31] Stories centered around Rodney King, LaTosha Harlins, Amado Diallo and the verdict of OJ Simpson were just a few triggering reminders during the Dean's formative years that the country was divided despite being taught that America was a place of freedom and acceptance.
[00:44:50] While she was able to compartmentalize these national headlines, the Dean was no stranger to racism from her peers, teachers and sadly enough her mentors.
[00:45:02] She leveraged the stories of her elders and her own lived experience to move her work from up next to up now.
[00:45:11] And is currently the CEO of the Epidemi of Black Excellence in Partnership and the owner founder of 8pm Consulting for Humanity.
[00:45:21] The Dean brings her life experience, a relentless pursuit for racial justice and her expertise as a community leader, corporate executive and social justice advocate to a new mission.
[00:45:33] The Dean's work is centered on three main pillars, each addressing the community and providing opportunities to learn, reflect, grow and change our society.
[00:45:43] The Dean teaches and lives her commitment to this work.
[00:45:48] Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, the Dean Holmes.
[00:45:56] All right, the Dean Holmes, how are you doing sister? You doing good?
[00:46:17] Sir, I'm doing well. I'm living in a season of favor so I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. How are you?
[00:46:25] I'm doing fine and I know that you are in a season of favor and congratulations on all the good news that's coming your way.
[00:46:35] Absolutely.
[00:46:36] But I want to talk to you about what you've been doing in Denver.
[00:46:43] Denver is not necessarily known as a place where black folks got to do a whole lot of work.
[00:46:51] It doesn't come up on the radar screen, but having family there and having been there myself, I know that there's a vibrant community there.
[00:47:04] And I know that there are issues there. So I wanted you to kind of talk about that and the work that you're doing in that.
[00:47:13] But first, with all guests, I throw a quote at them just to kind of get the conversation started.
[00:47:22] And you should be very familiar with this quote. Sometimes I catch guests and they have to think about, but this one you should jump on it right away.
[00:47:31] The end of white privilege is not to start a white oppression. It is the birth of equality. What does that quote mean to you?
[00:47:41] Oh my, oh my. It's a little first off, let me tell you that it resonates with me deeply.
[00:47:47] It's interesting that you bring that into this space because that was the quote or that was what was on my protest signs in the 2020 reckoning that our world went through.
[00:48:00] So it actually is a quote of mine. And what it meant for me was it was an opportunity to have a bold thought that would invite people into conversation to just pause for a moment and acknowledge that as we as people specifically black people are
[00:48:21] pleading and screaming for equity and leaning in with expectancy of being able to live in our beautiful black skin and thrive, we are not asking for there to be the oppression of other people.
[00:48:36] We are simply asking that we have an opportunity and room to be authentically who we are.
[00:48:42] So when I say or when we all say, because it's a quote for everyone to use at their discretion, but when it said that the end of white privilege is not the start of white oppression, that means that we are not looking to even a score
[00:48:58] or we're not looking for some type of revenge. We are simply seeking the opportunity to be who we were beautifully made to be.
[00:49:08] And if we can see it through that lens, that's a start, which is the reason why the quote ends in saying that it's the birth of equality. Equality is not enough, but it definitely is the start of where we can move forward and engage differently.
[00:49:24] Yeah, and that you know and that's always been a challenge for us that engage in the struggle because the backlash that we see time and time again whenever black people start moving toward just equality, let alone equity right.
[00:49:47] You know, that's that's part of the pushback is like, oh, we just, you know, y'all trying to take something from us. I mean that's that I literally was on Twitter, X whatever you want to call it.
[00:50:01] Yesterday, and somebody posted something about the trial with Donald Trump and they were just, you know, saying, oh, they did they're trying to replace us and all this stuff and I was like, where do you even get that concept from, you know, and so
[00:50:23] that's that and I can't remember the quote directly but it was somebody that said if you feel that not oppressing us hurts you, then there's something wrong with you.
[00:50:38] That's real. That's real.
[00:50:41] So, you know, but before we get into the discussion about your work in the organization. I want you to talk to the listeners about your involvement and seeking justice and the murder of Elijah McClain kind of tell people who this brother was and how you got involved in it and where where we are now dealing with that.
[00:51:02] Absolutely. So thank you for allowing this space for Elijah's name to be invoked, because when we call upon those that have gone before us we keep their keep their legacy alive.
[00:51:15] Elijah McClain is, will for always and forever be someone that embodied who who we are supposed to be with each other. And he did it through the natural pureness of his heart.
[00:51:33] So, when I talk about Elijah I typically ground myself in acknowledging that he was able to show us that being a neighbor, being a friend, being a son, being in community is not hard.
[00:51:53] It is simple because it's pure. And so he was able to leave behind a space of peace because if you really go into his story and understand who he is, there is an abundance of peace that you can sit with as you talk about his life.
[00:52:15] The disruption happens when we talk about his death. So to give context of his story, of his death story I'll say, Elijah went to the store in his local community and as he was walking home from the store, someone called the police claiming that there was a sketchy person walking home.
[00:52:40] And all Elijah was doing was walking home. He had his headphones in his ear, so he was doing a little dance as he walked home. But he was just simply expressing who he was someone that celebrated moments and took every moment to be in joy.
[00:53:00] And unfortunately, the police showed up on the scene and within eight seconds he was already up against the wall. And they the police were claiming that he posed some kind of threat.
[00:53:15] And so the officer that showed up first, Nathan Woodard, didn't give Elijah a chance to just simply be himself and be authentic. He immediately got aggressive and chose violence.
[00:53:31] Upon backup arriving two other officers showed up.
[00:53:35] It was Randy Rodima.
[00:53:39] And the other officer that showed up who was acquitted his name escapes me right now but I'll remember as we continue to speak about it, those two showed up and they escalated the situation.
[00:53:50] And eventually Elijah was pinned down.
[00:53:54] And he was trying to explain to them and express to them who he was as anxious and as fearful as he was, he was still trying to exalt peace.
[00:54:06] He was letting the officers know who he was. He was letting the officers know that he doesn't even hurt flies.
[00:54:13] He held that kind of peace for his people, for his community and for his spirit.
[00:54:21] So they continued to at every crossroads that these officers met they chose violence.
[00:54:27] So Elijah ended up throwing up.
[00:54:30] He started to suffer from hypoxia and asphyxia.
[00:54:35] And unfortunately they did not pull him out of the prone position.
[00:54:39] So Elijah started to die right there in the street.
[00:54:43] And the officers continued to choose violence.
[00:54:47] At the end of the day, there were 14 different officers that showed up on the scene and no one stood in position to protect Elijah.
[00:54:56] They watched it happen.
[00:54:58] Eventually the paramedics were called not for the sake of his health.
[00:55:04] But they wanted to ensure that Elijah was not going to remember or recall what was happening to him that night.
[00:55:14] So they let the paramedics know they claimed that Elijah was showing signs of quote, excited delirium, which is not a scientific.
[00:55:25] It's not a medical.
[00:55:27] There's nothing that ties excited delirium to anything but a narrative.
[00:55:31] There's nothing scientific or medically approved using that term.
[00:55:37] So with that two paramedics on the scene Peter Shikuniak and Jeremy Cooper.
[00:55:43] They decided that Elijah was going to be injected with ketamine.
[00:55:49] And when you use ketamine on someone, it is required that you understand the weight their actual physical weight to ensure that you don't overdo it.
[00:56:01] And that's what they gave to Elijah.
[00:56:03] Elijah weighed less than 170 pounds and the 500 milligrams of ketamine were enough to sedate a full grown horse.
[00:56:14] They injected it into his neck and Elijah never spoke another word again.
[00:56:21] He died at the hospital.
[00:56:22] Three days later, but Elijah died in the street.
[00:56:26] So what I understand now what city was this and this wasn't in Denver, right?
[00:56:33] It wasn't in Denver.
[00:56:35] It was in Aurora, Colorado, which if you just for, you know, the sake of clarity or whatever it was, it was in Denver.
[00:56:46] You could be straddling one street and you'll be in Aurora and Denver at the same time.
[00:56:51] So when we talk about where it happened, if you're from Denver, you felt that that murder as if it happened in your own neighborhood, especially when we talk about the black community.
[00:57:00] We are small, but we are fierce in the city.
[00:57:02] So when something happens in Aurora, it doesn't you don't find yourself disconnecting because it didn't happen in Denver.
[00:57:10] It feels like it happened right there in your neighborhood.
[00:57:13] And so we're talking about the black community.
[00:57:16] We are small, but we are fierce and so we know how to gather in Colorado as a black community.
[00:57:23] So when something happens in Aurora, it doesn't you don't find yourself disconnecting because it didn't happen in Denver.
[00:57:28] It feels like it happened right there in your neighborhood.
[00:57:32] Yeah, and so of all the people involved the EMTs and the officers, how many of them were found guilty? How many of them were acquitted?
[00:57:46] So there were five that went on trial after a movement of the people.
[00:57:52] So just want to make sure that I say that our state and our municipalities did not take responsibility as it pertains to justice for Elijah.
[00:58:03] It took a movement of the people.
[00:58:05] It took protest at a national scale for this trial or this these charges to happen.
[00:58:09] And so five men were charged and of the five three were convicted.
[00:58:15] Nathan Woodard, who was the first officer on scene, he was acquitted.
[00:58:21] Randy Rodima was convicted of criminal negligent, criminally negligent homicide.
[00:58:29] And Peter Shikuniak, which was the first paramedic that went on trial.
[00:58:35] He was convicted of criminally negligent homicide and second degree assault for the administration of an illegal drug.
[00:58:43] And Jeremy Cooper was also convicted of criminally negligent homicide.
[00:58:50] The other officer that showed up with Randy Rodima, he was acquitted.
[00:58:55] And so what's what's happening as we speak right now?
[00:59:02] So as we speak right now, we are in the final phase of sentencing.
[00:59:06] So there have been there have been three sentencing hearings that for the convicted.
[00:59:13] So the first sentencing hearing was of Randy Rodima.
[00:59:18] And he was he was sentenced to 14 months in the county jail with work release.
[00:59:28] So he goes to work every day and spends the nights and weekends in jail.
[00:59:34] And his time that it that was a lot, it was 14 months for Peter Shikuniak.
[00:59:41] And I'll say this as well. Peter Shikuniak, after the murder of Elijah McClain, he was promoted to the captain of the Aurora fire department.
[00:59:53] So he was the one that was convicted and of criminally negligent homicide with the accelerator of second degree assault for the illegal injection of the of the ketamine.
[01:00:04] And so he was sentenced to five years in prison.
[01:00:09] So one year for the second degree assault and three years for the criminally negligent homicide, both of those were excuse me.
[01:00:19] I'm sorry, four years, both of those are to run concurrent and he those those were the minimum sentences.
[01:00:27] So there was there was no maximum pursuit. It was all minimum.
[01:00:33] And then Jeremy Cooper, interestingly enough, Eric is going to be sentenced today as I talk to you right now.
[01:00:39] I am sitting outside of the Adams County Courthouse as we are going to see what his fate is here in the next few hours.
[01:00:48] And so the two officers are they back on the force or.
[01:00:57] So, no, that none of the officers are back on the force. However, Nathan Woodard, he had the opportunity. He was the one that was acquitted.
[01:01:07] The first officer that was on the scene, he was the one that put hands on Elijah first and he was the catalyst for the backup and all of that to come into play.
[01:01:14] He was acquitted and he is not on the force. However, he had an opportunity to get back on the force.
[01:01:22] So first, first thing is he was suspended during the throughout the duration of the trial.
[01:01:28] And when he was acquitted, he was reinstated and received all of his back pay for his his lack of pay during the trial.
[01:01:37] So he got over $270,000 to come back on to as he was reinstated.
[01:01:45] He decided that he was not going to be reinstated into the police force.
[01:01:52] And with that he got an additional something around $200,000.
[01:01:58] So ultimately he ended up walking away with almost $500,000 for his participation in the murder of Elijah McLean.
[01:02:05] So he decided after calls from the community and countless letters and public comment in city council, that was when he decided, allegedly he decided that he was not going to rejoin the force.
[01:02:22] So what we in the community are thinking is that he was told to resign or he was told to rescind.
[01:02:28] So that way they didn't have to engage further with community plea and outcry.
[01:02:34] And but in doing that he got another $200,000 to step away from that opportunity.
[01:02:44] So and Elijah's murder happened prior to George Floyd.
[01:02:50] Is that right?
[01:02:52] That is correct.
[01:02:54] Elijah was I'm sorry.
[01:02:55] I was just saying it was like it came to light because of it started getting attention because y'all in the community started raising awareness about it after George Floyd's murder and because the national attention was dealing with police brutality and so forth.
[01:03:17] That's when the national people started picking up on Elijah's story.
[01:03:21] Correct. Yes. Yes. So it was as the George Floyd movement came through Colorado, there was an opportunity for the those that convened and the those that congregated to hear the name of Elijah McLean to hear the story because what I will say is that our media.
[01:03:41] I would say that they perpetuated the lack of support for for Elijah. They also didn't stand for Elijah because there wasn't a lot of media coverage, not to mention the again the municipalities, the police department, the Department of Justice, everyone that was supposed to be involved in identifying what happened that night.
[01:04:04] There were so many missteps intentionally and systemically to where our state said there's nothing to see here.
[01:04:13] And there were no charges that were filed for Elijah in 2019 it wasn't until the movement of 2020 that implored our governor to appoint a special prosecutor and then the district attorney's office or the attorney general's office assigned folks to investigate and then the district attorney's office.
[01:04:33] And then they were able to get charges for all all the officers and paramedics that were involved. The other officer Jason Rosenblatt, that's his name. He was the other officer involved. I want to make sure that those names are also expressed so that they have to deal with that legacy.
[01:04:50] And so one of the one of the pictures from from the trials that that kind of moved me was when you were walking out the courthouse with Elijah's mama and both of y'all had y'alls fish raised and were holding hands and stuff.
[01:05:10] So you would you would really kind of been, I guess for lack of a better term and emotional support ally for for Mrs. McClain.
[01:05:23] Absolutely. I think that's a really good way to say it because it was the emotional connection that her and I made that allowed for there to be space for her to have someone in community that would simply sit with her.
[01:05:37] Right. I know I knew that there was nothing I could do or there was nothing I possessed to take away the pain, the confusion, the anger, the anguish, everything that she was going through.
[01:05:50] So as her and I continue to engage throughout this process of protest of trials. I just sat with her.
[01:06:00] I just sat next to her and gave her space to be in that space to say whatever she wanted to in draft mode to speak into her pain.
[01:06:10] And one thing that I will say it's so interesting Eric is this story obviously grapples with so many that hear it.
[01:06:20] And if you are a mother of a black son, if you are a brother or a sibling of a black body. This story resonates with you in a very deep way.
[01:06:32] I am a mother of two black children, two black sons.
[01:06:36] And so this story and the murder of Elijah also hurt me. And Shanane was healing for me.
[01:06:47] That's the type of spirit that sits inside of Elijah's mother. That's the type of spirit that was responsible for raising Elijah as he grew up.
[01:07:00] And so when you really connect with who these officers and these paramedics took from us.
[01:07:10] It really starts to just hurt inside of your soul, because when Elijah was made God made a promise to all of us.
[01:07:20] And that promise was taken away because he looked sketchy. I don't accept that.
[01:07:29] Yeah, and that's that's powerful. And so I greatly appreciate you stepping up to be that support and I really commend the community for rallying to bring his name to the forefront.
[01:07:51] So I thank you for that.
[01:07:54] Now I want to get into other stuff that you're doing.
[01:07:59] What is the mission vision and responsibility of the epitome of black excellence in partnership?
[01:08:06] Wow.
[01:08:07] Thank you for the question and for the opportunity to speak into the work. So the epitome of black excellence and partnership was birthed through a lot of the history that I have in my city so I'm born and raised in Denver and my elders were a part of the great migration they contributed to the community in so many different ways.
[01:08:28] And so I was raised by an amazing group of advocates, activists, pastors, just teachers.
[01:08:36] And so being in that space with my elders really I just went from up next to up now.
[01:08:43] This is me standing in my calling and understanding that it's time for me to continue the legacy of our family and the legacy of our people.
[01:08:53] The mission of the epitome of black excellence and partnership is to reap what our ancestors have sowed.
[01:09:01] There are so many people that have come before us that have fought that have ensured that they sacrificed for our joy.
[01:09:11] And what we understand is that it's time to bring that to harvest.
[01:09:17] We have to now bring that to harvest in our community. It's time for us to feast.
[01:09:23] So when we talk about reaping what our ancestors sowed, what we do is we restore, elevate, acknowledge and protege black excellence in our city.
[01:09:36] And if you're paying attention I just spelled out R E A P.
[01:09:41] So we reap black excellence and we do it unapologetically because we understand that we have to protect the narrative of black excellence in our city because far too often there will be investments in our community.
[01:09:54] There will be a rise in our community and then the energy will shift or like you mentioned in the beginning there will be a backlash and those investments and those those sacrifices that we've made all of that starts to come right out of our community.
[01:10:09] So we protect the narrative to ensure that we understand that this is going to be for black excellence in our community.
[01:10:16] We believe every community should thrive and we're ready to hold the line and unapologetically do this work.
[01:10:23] And with that we do we do hold it responsibly.
[01:10:27] So and that's the reason why it's the epitome of black excellence and partnership.
[01:10:32] On the partnership side, we create a bridge to ensure that relationships and people that gain proximity to black excellence.
[01:10:42] We need to make sure that you're safe.
[01:10:44] We need to make sure that you understand that there is a transformative opportunity that there's mutuality and reciprocity.
[01:10:51] You might have resources to bring but you have a lot to learn from us.
[01:10:54] And so we create a bridge to ensure that these partnerships and these relationships for those that have proximity start to interconnect because that's the way that we believe it's going to be sustained.
[01:11:08] So that's what that's what our mission is our vision is and again we hold it with responsibility understanding that we have to do this as a collective.
[01:11:15] And this is an invitation for the time in which we're in.
[01:11:19] There's so much division that is happening and when we talk about division in our society, particularly in this country, once that division and all that slicing and dicing happens.
[01:11:29] Black community is the community that tends to have to have the most resilience in that.
[01:11:36] And that's unjustified resilience.
[01:11:40] So we have to be ready to acknowledge that our resilience is not to be exploited.
[01:11:49] It's not to be hijacked.
[01:11:51] Our resilience should be something that we organically pull on as we are thriving as we are creating as we are innovating the adversity that comes to us needs to be something that comes on the path that we choose.
[01:12:04] But far too often that adversity is thrown at us through a system and that system expects us to be resilient.
[01:12:13] That's unjustified.
[01:12:15] So the epitome of black excellence is working tirelessly to ensure that we are able to change the narrative and not just change the words that we use, not just change the books that we read.
[01:12:28] We're saying change the narrative, which means that we are going to be changing the stories that are told when this time is talked about in our future.
[01:12:37] We're changing the narrative.
[01:12:40] So you also got have a consulting firm called 8pm consultant.
[01:12:46] What have you been able to do with that business to impact change in the community?
[01:12:51] Absolutely. So 8pm consulting for humanity has been a conduit that I've been able to leverage with my team to create education models and curriculum models that are accessible for entities across a large spectrum.
[01:13:07] We've gone into government entities, we've gone into institutions and large organizations, and we've also gone into small book clubs.
[01:13:16] And what we do is we create curriculum that is designed to be thought thought provoking and that moves the pursuit of equity and of justice and of social change.
[01:13:28] It moves it from concept to practicality.
[01:13:31] So we have some proprietary curriculum strategies and models that allow for people to lean in from their lens, from their perspective and their lived experience and start creating and crafting homegrown strategies that allow for them to really be in pursuit of the way that we can really impact cultural change.
[01:13:52] So the social change piece is prescriptive. That means that laws are changing and all of that and we need that, right? We have a lot of different ways that we can ensure that we have access.
[01:14:04] But social change is prescriptive. What we go after is cultural change because that's attractive.
[01:14:12] That's us as a community looking at each other and saying, I want to live like that. I want my community to look like that. I want my people to experience that.
[01:14:22] So we leverage our curriculum to really go on a journey so that people can understand how they can practically move into a space of cultural change.
[01:14:32] And we've done some really good work and have created a lot of good relationships in a lot of different spaces. And it transcends race. It goes into all of the isms that continue to divide us.
[01:14:45] So you would say that the work that you're doing with APM consulting is bigger than the traditional DEI kind of work?
[01:14:58] Absolutely. It is. And the reason that I say that is because DEI, and shout out to everyone that's leaning into these spaces because this work is not easy. There is an exhaustion that is very real.
[01:15:11] So DEI training is a great model to use to go into conversation and curriculum and things that are going to expose you to concepts.
[01:15:30] And not often enough does DEI training go from that checkbox on the checklist or the hours that you're required to do something or academia only. It stays in the book.
[01:15:45] It's hypothetical. It's case study, which is important because it offers information.
[01:15:52] But the DEI training oftentimes just stays at that space. It stays at information. The curriculum that we design is we are not staying at information.
[01:16:04] What we are taking people on is an experience of the introspection of how you are perpetuating the systems that are dividing us.
[01:16:14] Each and every one of us, every day we have to ascribe to the systems of oppression because that's the way that our systems are founded. We have to go to work. We have to eat. We have to live.
[01:16:26] So at some point each of us have to perpetuate these systems that are causing damage specifically for the black community and for other communities that are systemically impacted.
[01:16:37] So we are ascribing to that every day because we have to live. So our curriculum opens up an opportunity for individuals to start to create a homegrown path of how are you going to actively dismantle these systems and not only dismantle, but what is your role in rebuilding?
[01:16:56] And it goes from a conceptual level to a very practical level.
[01:17:01] So unfortunately, we're hitting up against time. But I did want to ask this one question.
[01:17:14] You have faced challenges in your life. You've had some highs and some lows. What encouragement would you give to young black women to keep pressing toward the higher mark?
[01:17:26] Oh, man, Eric, I don't know who you are, brother, but man.
[01:17:34] That is such an amazing question. Here's what I'll say.
[01:17:38] For black women in particular, there is this label that is out here for you.
[01:17:46] And it's this label called strong black woman.
[01:17:51] And to all of these beautiful black women out there, I'm going to tell you something.
[01:17:57] Don't let the strength of who you are be used as a label.
[01:18:03] Capture it in your own identity.
[01:18:07] Because when you don't let it be a label and you refuse the label and you accept it in your identity, you get to choose and decide what your strength looks like.
[01:18:17] You get to choose and decide how your superpower is leveraged in your journey.
[01:18:22] You get to decide how you're passing that legacy down to those that are coming beyond you.
[01:18:28] But when it comes to the adversity and the things that you face, here's what I'll say about pressing forward as often as you can, as much as you can.
[01:18:43] And with intentionality, dream about the joy of those that come beyond you.
[01:18:50] Because if you're dreaming about their joy, there is a rejuvenation of spirit every time you have that dream.
[01:18:58] There is going to be a rejuvenation of energy and tolerance and audacity.
[01:19:06] You are going to be able to audaciously pursue whatever you're doing and you're calling in your journey of leadership, of love, of life.
[01:19:15] You are going to be able to pursue that with an audacity that is unmatched.
[01:19:23] So find the strength in your identity and dream about the joy of those that come beyond you.
[01:19:30] So I want to close by saying this to you.
[01:19:38] When I was in Jackson, Mississippi, and even before I got elected, there was this sister named Stephanie Parker Weaver.
[01:19:48] And we nicknamed her Sister Hurricane.
[01:19:52] And she was a force of nature for real as far as dealing with the systems that were set up against us and uplifting our people.
[01:20:08] And it was an honor and a privilege to go into battle with her day in and day out.
[01:20:15] And even as I got to be an elected official to know that she was there to say, hey, look, this is what's going on in the capital needs you to get some folks rally rallying.
[01:20:30] We need some help.
[01:20:33] And even when she was dealing with an internal struggle as far as health, she turned that struggle into a movement that has had national impact.
[01:20:44] And so in just doing my research with you and on you and just talking with you.
[01:20:51] I feel that spirit that I knew was with her with you.
[01:20:58] And so I commend you.
[01:21:01] I continue to hope that you and other sisters like you keep finding that that internal strength and and that joy.
[01:21:14] In your vision to keep doing this work.
[01:21:20] I know it's not easy.
[01:21:23] But I appreciate you if nobody else tells you, I appreciate you and I appreciate you coming on the podcast to introduce people to the work that you're doing and the organizations that you're doing now having said that this is your time to plug because you know you have a business you got a nonprofit.
[01:21:44] How can people support what you're doing.
[01:21:47] Absolutely well, let me start off by telling you black man I received that.
[01:21:53] Thank you for the affirmation.
[01:21:56] That's going to sit with me for a while.
[01:22:00] So I really do appreciate that thank you.
[01:22:03] And to the sister that you spoke about in the name you invoked, I will say, I'll say, and thank you for her for what she's done.
[01:22:15] Yeah, the work that I do is honestly it's it's powered by the people.
[01:22:21] This work cannot be tied to a system that is not going to acknowledge our black excellence we have already seen historically that black excellence is not leveraged it's not sought.
[01:22:34] And oftentimes it is very unprotected.
[01:22:38] And when we continue to do this work, we want to do it collectively we want this to be truly transformative and powered by the people so everything that we do is supported by folks that want to give.
[01:22:51] And so obviously you can give financially, but you can also give your time and when I say that that means that we would love for folks to affiliate with this work.
[01:23:02] If you're going to join us don't just get the emails etc. Affiliate yourself with this work find out how this work fits in the things that you have access to the people that you talk to the dinner table that you sit at.
[01:23:16] Please let this work be an affiliate for us so that way we can ensure that this is creating soil and and when we're planting these seeds this stuff is growing so we can bring that to harvest.
[01:23:28] You can visit be the epitome.org just like it sounds be the epitome.org you can learn more about what we do.
[01:23:37] You can learn more about the events the conversations that were curating the spaces that we're going into.
[01:23:43] And you can also invest, you can invest there there's an investment link that you can jump into and any amount helps any amount helps so again we are powered by the people.
[01:23:53] So yeah and then if you want to check out 8pm consulting for humanity you can just visit www.its8pm.com.
[01:24:02] There is a story of how I was able to ground myself in the work that's there so you can definitely read about the work that's being done how it's being done.
[01:24:11] Yeah and again our hope is that you are able to hold on to something that is written that is said that is done by our organization.
[01:24:23] That allows you to be a part of this movement because that is what this is it is a movement and historically we have seen that when people move the system has to shift.
[01:24:35] Well ladies and gentlemen that was the median homes.
[01:24:40] And oh I'm sorry.
[01:24:43] I'm sorry I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't know if I was cutting you off or not.
[01:24:48] No no no I'm good.
[01:24:49] Ladies and gentlemen it was median hope.
[01:24:52] Yeah, it's been being home.
[01:24:54] Thank you again sister for coming on the podcast and
[01:25:00] I'd be interested to find out I'll be keeping tabs on what happens in the sentencing today with this individual that's that's in the courts today.
[01:25:12] But thank you again for coming on the pocket.
[01:25:15] Thank you so much for having me I appreciate you man I appreciate your platform and just know like you got you got you got a soldier with you now I'm gonna be standing and watching what you're doing and all of that so I appreciate you.
[01:25:27] Thank you I'd love to hear that the more the marry absolutely.
[01:25:32] Alright guys we're gonna catch up on the other side.
[01:25:35] All right, and we are back so.
[01:25:56] Yeah, Marty and Medin thank you.
[01:26:00] Thank you so much for coming on this podcast.
[01:26:06] You know I just I just have a soft spot for folks that are willing to overcome their challenges and to make a difference.
[01:26:21] In in the world that we live in and to tell it like it ti is right.
[01:26:27] I think that's that's the most important thing I think that's the most important commodity that we need to share right now is that is not true.
[01:26:38] And that's getting to the root cause of what's going on.
[01:26:43] And and be able to articulate it in a way that we can understand it.
[01:26:49] And again truth doesn't necessarily come in a form where we're comfortable with it.
[01:26:56] Truth doesn't necessarily come in a form that we inherently agree with it.
[01:27:03] But when you know that somebody is genuine and you know that somebody is out there.
[01:27:11] Pushing for something with a spirit of truth with a spirit of being genuine with a spirit of sincerity.
[01:27:24] You can't help but respect that.
[01:27:27] And you know with Marty and her political history and in an observation skills and with Medin with her commitment to uplift the community.
[01:27:42] Those are the kind of people that I want to and have been trying to uplift on this podcast.
[01:27:51] These are the people that give me motivation to do what I do and when I was elected to serve the way that I served.
[01:28:01] And regardless of how you may have felt about how I went about things.
[01:28:10] Understand that it always came from a spirit of sincerity of being genuine and being committed to the cause.
[01:28:22] Until we understand that all of us have an ability.
[01:28:29] All of us have a talent.
[01:28:31] All of us have a gift that we can share to uplift our communities and to make this country live up to the creed.
[01:28:45] That it established we until we fulfill that we're going to continue to struggle.
[01:28:57] And we never can take anything for granted.
[01:29:00] We never can sit on our laurels when things are going good.
[01:29:05] If there's anything that has been proven over these last few years is that a lot of things we thought were established can be taken away from us.
[01:29:18] And we must fight vigorously.
[01:29:24] One of my favorite lines from the song to battle him in the Republic is just as Jesus died to make men holy.
[01:29:37] Let us die to make men free.
[01:29:39] Our truth is marching on.
[01:29:44] That's that's something that I internalize because we have to give our all to make sure that our communities, our nation and our world is better not just for us.
[01:30:03] But for generations to come.
[01:30:08] All right on that note thank y'all for listening and until next time.