In this episode, Nekima Levy-Armstrong, founder of the Racial Justice Network, talks about her journey for justice from Mississippi to Minneapolis. Then, Janice Robinson-Celeste, founder of the Successful Black Parenting Magazine, discusses the challenges of Black Parenting and Black Entrepreneurship.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 make this moment a movement.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:10 Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.
00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:56 Music.
00:01:22 --> 00:01:24 Thank you. Thank you.
00:01:53 --> 00:01:53 Thank you.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 Hello, and welcome to another moment where Erik Fleming, I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:05 So I hope all the mothers had a great Mother's Day.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 As this episode drops, Mother's Day would have passed.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:13 And shout out to all of you all that are out there.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:19 And one of the guests that I'm going to have on is a parenting expert.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:23 And she is a publisher of a Black Parenting magazine.
00:02:24 --> 00:02:33 And I hope that y'all will get some idea about, you know, at least get something out of her thoughts.
00:02:33 --> 00:02:37 Let me put it that way. dealing with Black parenting, some of her opinions and all that.
00:02:38 --> 00:02:44 And my other guest is, for lack of a better term, a hellraiser in her hometown.
00:02:45 --> 00:02:47 And somebody that I've been following
00:02:47 --> 00:02:51 from afar for a while and was really honored to get this sister on.
00:02:51 --> 00:02:57 And she's also a proud mom, too. So I hope both of those ladies had great Mother's Days.
00:02:57 --> 00:03:04 And I hope that, you know, this episode is a nice reward for them to to hear
00:03:04 --> 00:03:10 themselves expressing to you, the listeners, their thoughts and concerns about
00:03:10 --> 00:03:12 issues that are happening in our community.
00:03:13 --> 00:03:18 So we got a new pope and it turns out the pope is black.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:23 I was just happy enough. He was from Chicago. Right.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:28 But now we're finding out that he's got a Creole background from New Orleans, Louisiana.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:34 So welcome, world. He finally got a black pope.
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 I don't know if he wears that on his sleeve or not. Probably not.
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 But, you know, Peruvian folks are already claiming him, too,
00:03:41 --> 00:03:44 because he spent 20 years there doing missionary work.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:50 So I hope this man, you know, he's 69 and Pope Leo XIV.
00:03:50 --> 00:03:58 Long may live and serve the Catholic Church well and continue to use that position
00:03:58 --> 00:04:01 as a voice for not only Christianity, but humanity.
00:04:02 --> 00:04:06 And then some other stuff that we're going to get into later on after the interviews,
00:04:06 --> 00:04:08 but I think it's going to be a good show.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:13 And as always, you know, I appreciate y'all for listening.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:19 And 20 is still the goal. We're not giving up on that ever until we reach
00:04:19 --> 00:04:23 it, 20 subscribers. You can go to patreon.com slash a moment with Erik Fleming,
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 and sign up. And it's only a dollar.
00:04:26 --> 00:04:31 If you want some cool stuff, you pay a little more, but we just need to get
00:04:31 --> 00:04:35 those subscribers going as fast and as heavy as we can.
00:04:36 --> 00:04:39 So really appreciate y'all support and listening anyway.
00:04:39 --> 00:04:44 And as always, now it's time to kick this program off and we kick it off with
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 a moment of news with Grace G.
00:04:48 --> 00:04:53 Music.
00:04:54 --> 00:04:58 Thanks, Erik. Three former Memphis officers were acquitted of all charges,
00:04:59 --> 00:05:02 including murder, in the 2023 fatal beating of Tyree Nichols.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:10 Cardinal Robert Prevost, 69, was chosen as the first U.S. native pope, taking the name Leo XIV.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:15 A Republican North Carolina Supreme Court candidate conceded defeat after a
00:05:15 --> 00:05:20 federal judge upheld Democratic Justice Allison Riggs' victory by blocking the
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 rejection of military and overseas ballots.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:28 Rodney Hinton Jr. was jailed without bond for allegedly killing a deputy in
00:05:28 --> 00:05:34 retaliation after Cincinnati police fatally shot his son, who they claim was armed during a pursuit.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:40 Joseph Czuba received 53 years for killing a Palestinian-American boy and wounding
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 his mother in a 2023 attack tied to the Israel-Gaza the conflict.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:50 India and Pakistan engaged in severe cross-border attacks in Kashmir following
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 an April deadly assault on Hindu tourists.
00:05:53 --> 00:05:58 The U.S. halted airstrikes against Yemen's Houthis after Oman broke a ceasefire
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 agreement to protect regional shipping lanes.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 U.S. authorities dismantled a
00:06:03 --> 00:06:08 major fentanyl trafficking ring across six states, arresting 16 suspects.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:12 President Trump announced plans to revoke Harvard's tax-exempt status,
00:06:12 --> 00:06:18 prompting the university to call the move unlawful and sue over frozen federal grants.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:24 The Trump administration proposed offering $1 stipends to migrants who self-deport,
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 arguing it would cost less than forced removals.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 The U.S. government reached a settlement with the family of Ashley Babbitt,
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 who was killed during the January 6th Capitol riot.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:39 A federal judge ruled Trump's order targeting law firm Perkins Coie unconstitutional.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:44 A federal appeals court denied Trump's bid to end temporary legal protections
00:06:44 --> 00:06:49 for hundreds of thousands of migrants Anthony Albanese secured a historic second
00:06:49 --> 00:06:52 term as Australia's prime minister
00:06:52 --> 00:06:59 And measles cases rose in Texas and New Mexico to 769 I am Grace G.,
00:06:59 --> 00:07:01 and this has been A Moment of News.
00:07:02 --> 00:07:08 Music.
00:07:08 --> 00:07:12 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 my guest, Nikema Levy-Armstrong.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:22 Nikema Levy-Armstrong is a civil rights attorney, activist, and founder of the
00:07:22 --> 00:07:24 Racial Justice Network.
00:07:24 --> 00:07:31 Nikema is a former law professor and a former President of the Minneapolis NAACP.
00:07:31 --> 00:07:36 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:07:36 --> 00:07:40 on this podcast, Nikema Levy Armstrong.
00:07:42 --> 00:07:51 Music.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:58 All right, Nikema Levy-Armstrong, Madam President, Warrior,
00:07:58 --> 00:08:00 how you doing? You doing good?
00:08:01 --> 00:08:06 I'm doing great. Thank you for having me today. It's an honor to be on your show.
00:08:06 --> 00:08:11 Well, it's an honor for me to have you on, you know, just been kind of following you from afar.
00:08:12 --> 00:08:17 And I didn't realize that we had a connection, but we'll get into that as we
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 get into the interview. you.
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 One of the things I like to do to start it off is I throw out some icebreakers.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:27 So the first icebreaker is going to be a quote.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:32 And once you respond to that, it's a little long, but it says,
00:08:32 --> 00:08:37 so don't get discouraged in this moment, even though there's discouraging news.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 Sometimes you have to turn off the news and start organizing.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:48 There are reasons to be discouraged, but read stories of people who came before us,
00:08:48 --> 00:08:53 who in the midst of unjust laws, unjust policies, uncertainty,
00:08:53 --> 00:08:57 brutality, murder, and lynchings, found a resolve to stand up,
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 to rise up, to speak up, and to refuse to be refused.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:06 That is the real hour that we're in. We're in the place of our power,
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 so let's walk in it. What does that quote mean to you?
00:09:10 --> 00:09:18 That quote is from a speech that I just gave last week at the Minnesota Women's
00:09:18 --> 00:09:22 Press 40th year anniversary celebration.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 And they asked me to be the closing speaker.
00:09:26 --> 00:09:34 And so I thought that it was important to remind people of from where we have
00:09:34 --> 00:09:39 come and that this is not our first rodeo as a people.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:46 With regard to dealing with significant injustices and uncertainty and that
00:09:46 --> 00:09:54 we have to take the long view and not become discouraged or lose sight of the big picture,
00:09:54 --> 00:09:57 which is not only our survival,
00:09:58 --> 00:10:04 but how do we build upon the strength of our ancestors and those who came before
00:10:04 --> 00:10:09 us to persevere and champion the power of the people.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 Yeah. Give me a number between 1 and 20.
00:10:14 --> 00:10:21 Five. Okay. What do you think we should decide at the local or state levels versus federal?
00:10:22 --> 00:10:26 What should we decide at the local or state levels versus federal?
00:10:27 --> 00:10:34 So, of course, that's a wonderful question because it's something that our nation is grappling with.
00:10:34 --> 00:10:40 Right now in terms of the Trump administration working hard,
00:10:41 --> 00:10:46 at least under the guise of working hard to shrink the federal government and
00:10:46 --> 00:10:56 taking a lot of power and resources from initiatives and departments at the
00:10:56 --> 00:11:00 federal level that have served people across this country.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:04 So I do think that aspects of our
00:11:04 --> 00:11:09 government are probably larger than they should be. But at the same time.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:16 This requires a more delicate balance than what we're seeing right now.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:22 We're seeing someone come in with a sledgehammer when what they really need is a scalpel.
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 Because these aren't just policies.
00:11:25 --> 00:11:27 These aren't just resource allocations.
00:11:28 --> 00:11:33 These are people's lives that are being played with under this current administration.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:40 And it's causing so much fear and trauma and turmoil. So I would like to see
00:11:40 --> 00:11:45 more local control over certain aspects of what's happening.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 I'm thinking about, you know, the role of ICE, for example.
00:11:49 --> 00:11:55 You know, depending upon the community, ICE agents can work hand in hand with
00:11:55 --> 00:11:58 law enforcement to go into schools, churches.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:04 You know, wherever they deem necessary to pull people out and deport them.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 And it's been happening without due process.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:12 From my perspective, local communities should have more control because they
00:12:12 --> 00:12:15 know what makes sense in their communities.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:23 And a lot of local communities depend upon the labor of migrant workers in order
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 to bolster and sustain their economy.
00:12:27 --> 00:12:32 So that would be one example. I think with regards to education,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:38 I sort of have mixed feelings regarding, you know, what should be local and what should be federal.
00:12:38 --> 00:12:45 And part of that has to do with our longstanding history of the educational
00:12:45 --> 00:12:50 system being weaponized against Black children, children with special needs
00:12:50 --> 00:12:52 and anyone who is othered.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:56 And how historically the federal government has had to step in,
00:12:56 --> 00:13:02 you know, even to integrate schools, for example, and to address issues.
00:13:03 --> 00:13:09 Some of the extreme discrimination, racism, and white supremacy that was happening
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 within the public education system at the local level.
00:13:12 --> 00:13:18 So we've seen how the power of the federal government can be utilized to bring
00:13:18 --> 00:13:25 about changes that may lead to greater access to equality.
00:13:25 --> 00:13:30 But in this instance, the power of the federal government at the educational
00:13:30 --> 00:13:36 level is being weaponized against local communities when they're trying to focus
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 on things like diversity, equity, and inclusion,
00:13:39 --> 00:13:44 leveling the playing field, and ensuring that there are programs and initiatives
00:13:44 --> 00:13:49 in place that give students of color, students with disabilities,
00:13:49 --> 00:13:56 and students who speak English as a second language an opportunity for educational advancement.
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 So, you know, it's kind of a mixed bag, you know, from where I sit.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:10 But again, what's happening now is just way out of pocket compared to what is needed in this moment.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:16 All right. I didn't think we were going to have to have this conversation,
00:14:16 --> 00:14:21 but give me your assessment of the not guilty verdict in the murder of Tyre Nichols.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:30 I think it is absolutely outrageous that a jury could look at the video that
00:14:30 --> 00:14:35 we all saw of the abuse, trauma.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:44 I mean, it honestly looked like reminiscent of what you would see during the slavery era or Jim Crow,
00:14:44 --> 00:14:51 you know, in terms of the abuse and brutality being inflicted upon a black man.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:55 And the fact that these were Black men is no excuse.
00:14:55 --> 00:15:00 There were Black overseers on slave plantations. If we look at the murder of
00:15:00 --> 00:15:08 Emmett Till, for example, which happened on August 28th, 1955.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:14 There were, of course, the white men who were the ringleaders of the brutal
00:15:14 --> 00:15:16 murder of Emmett Till in Money, Mississippi.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:20 But it's also come to light that Black men participated as well.
00:15:20 --> 00:15:28 So at times, our people have been weaponized against us when it comes to reinforcing
00:15:28 --> 00:15:33 the system of white control over black bodies, as well as white supremacy.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:35 And this is no different.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:40 We have black officers who were supposed to protect and serve and uphold the
00:15:40 --> 00:15:44 law being weaponized against a black man.
00:15:44 --> 00:15:49 And now, because the jury didn't recognize Tyre Nichols' humanity.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:58 Being allowed to essentially walk away from a heinous murder that they committed.
00:15:58 --> 00:16:04 So I don't know how the jury could make a decision like that under the circumstances.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:11 I think it also speaks to the fragility of our current justice system,
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 or as some lawyers call it, our criminal legal system.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:20 Because when you look at what happened here in Minneapolis where I'm based with
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 regard to the police murder of George Floyd,
00:16:24 --> 00:16:30 some people unfortunately take it for granted that those four officers were
00:16:30 --> 00:16:33 charged and convicted at the state and federal levels.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:42 However, as someone who was here on the front lines and was on the inside of
00:16:42 --> 00:16:47 some aspects of what happened, And as an activist and organizer and attorney,
00:16:47 --> 00:16:49 I realized that,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:55 honestly, one different decision could have caused Derek Chauvin and those other
00:16:55 --> 00:17:03 three officers to walk away scot-free after committing a murder that we all witnessed on video.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:10 So I think that this situation regarding Tyre Nichols and those officers who
00:17:10 --> 00:17:16 murdered him highlights the fact that justice is not guaranteed, even with the video.
00:17:17 --> 00:17:24 Even when there is a public outrage and concern about what happened,
00:17:25 --> 00:17:32 there's no guarantee that someone will receive justice after such a horrendous
00:17:32 --> 00:17:39 act has occurred that, you know, we can't come back from, right?
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 I mean, as a Black police chief, just a lot of the same parallels as Minneapolis.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:49 But, you know, in this instance, we just we did not see justice work.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:54 And it's really disheartening. My heart goes out to the family of Tyre Nichols.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:59 I believe he was a father as well. And so it's just it's devastating.
00:17:59 --> 00:18:04 And it shows that we still have a lot of work to do and that there is still
00:18:04 --> 00:18:09 a need for people to take to the streets.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:15 And take to the halls of power and demand the changes that are long overdue
00:18:15 --> 00:18:17 in this system and in this society.
00:18:18 --> 00:18:24 Yeah, I echo that as somebody that has had the privilege to wear a lot of hats,
00:18:24 --> 00:18:29 including a law enforcement hat, this was not a verdict I saw coming.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:36 And I think the word you used was disheartening. I think that's appropriate on my end, too.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 I didn't see that coming. You know, they, you know,
00:18:41 --> 00:18:45 some of them are going to do some federal time, but, you know,
00:18:45 --> 00:18:51 and I don't know, you know, in Tennessee, if, you know, the burden of proof
00:18:51 --> 00:18:55 for murder is different than in Minnesota or in Georgia or wherever.
00:18:55 --> 00:19:00 But I just, I just didn't see that coming. So I agree with you.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:05 And my heart goes out to the Nichols family and to the Memphis community,
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 especially the black community, because they didn't deserve that.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:13 And yeah, I'll just I'll leave it at that for my end.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:18 No, I agree 110%. They didn't deserve it.
00:19:18 --> 00:19:25 And then the bigger context around this incident is the fact that these officers,
00:19:25 --> 00:19:30 from my understanding, were allowed to terrorize the community as a part of a task force.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:37 And so this signals to Memphis police officers that they can literally get away with murder. Yeah.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:43 Yeah. All right. So let's talk about you a little bit.
00:19:43 --> 00:19:48 How did a girl from Jackson, Mississippi, end up being a Hellraiser in Minneapolis, Minnesota?
00:19:50 --> 00:19:58 That's a great question. So I was born in Mississippi, as you just said.
00:19:58 --> 00:20:04 And then when I was around eight years old, we moved from Mississippi.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:09 So meaning my mom and my sisters and I, we moved to South Central Los Angeles.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:14 So as you can imagine, that was a significant shift.
00:20:15 --> 00:20:19 Coming from a much slower pace of life.
00:20:19 --> 00:20:26 And I would say also maybe more socially isolating in terms of mostly black
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 and white with regard to the racial demographics.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:35 Most folks were poor. But when I moved to South Central, it was a different kind of poverty.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 You know, back in Mississippi, my mom grew her own vegetables.
00:20:40 --> 00:20:45 You know, it just, even though we didn't have a lot, it still felt like a lot.
00:20:45 --> 00:20:50 But when I got to South Central, I saw just a different level of poverty in
00:20:50 --> 00:20:51 the community, which was mostly
00:20:51 --> 00:20:56 Black and Latino community, right in the heart of crip neighborhoods.
00:20:57 --> 00:21:04 And when I moved there was in the early 1980s, maybe around 1985, 1984, 1985.
00:21:05 --> 00:21:09 And during that time was the start of the war on drugs.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:16 So you can imagine what that meant for a community that was already under distress
00:21:16 --> 00:21:21 socioeconomically and experiencing a lot of marginalization.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:27 The war on drugs just exacerbated everything that was already going on because
00:21:27 --> 00:21:31 we had a heavier police presence in the community.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:37 We had young men cycling in and out of the justice system. And I witnessed all of this as a kid.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 And so I remember when I was around
00:21:40 --> 00:21:46 nine years old, watching lawyers on television, advocating for people.
00:21:46 --> 00:21:50 And in watching those lawyers, I thought about what was happening in my community.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:56 And I said, you know, maybe if I become a lawyer, I can help change things.
00:21:56 --> 00:22:00 So from the time I was nine, I decided that I wanted to become a lawyer.
00:22:00 --> 00:22:02 Now, I didn't know any lawyers.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:06 No one in my family had graduated with a four-year degree.
00:22:06 --> 00:22:12 But in my heart, I just knew that that's what I needed to do to make a difference.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:16 And so that was the path that I pursued.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:25 And so fast forward, when I was around 14, I got a scholarship to attend a boarding
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 school in North Andover, Massachusetts.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:35 And it was very academically rigorous, but it also taught me a lot about how the world works.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:44 Because many of the people in the boarding school that I attended had grown
00:22:44 --> 00:22:46 up in wealthy environments.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:50 So they didn't know much about poverty or people of color.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:52 And I didn't know much about them.
00:22:53 --> 00:23:00 And so I had to dig into my history in order to be grounded in a space like
00:23:00 --> 00:23:06 that. And so that definitely helped set the stage for my focus on civil rights.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:14 As a teenager, having to advocate, challenge people's assumptions and stereotypes
00:23:14 --> 00:23:20 about Black and brown people and use my voice in what was sometimes hostile situations.
00:23:20 --> 00:23:27 But it also helped to hone my leadership skills and to let me know that regardless of where.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:34 My family started out or where I started out, I was still capable of competing at that level.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:39 And it was really thanks to my Black teachers in LA that I even got that opportunity.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:44 They were the ones that, you know, filled out the application for me.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:48 I didn't even know anything about the opportunity to go to boarding school,
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 but my Black teachers opened the door.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:55 So I felt I had a responsibility to live up to that opportunity.
00:23:55 --> 00:24:00 So after I graduated from Brooks, which was the name of my boarding school that
00:24:00 --> 00:24:04 I attended, I went on to the University of Southern California,
00:24:04 --> 00:24:08 where I majored in African American studies. I was pre-law.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:16 And then after my time at USC, I went directly to law school at the University
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 of Illinois in Champaign-Urbana.
00:24:18 --> 00:24:26 And during my time in law school, I found the legal clinic and I was able to
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 represent low-income people as a law student.
00:24:29 --> 00:24:33 And then by my third year, which is your last year of law school,
00:24:34 --> 00:24:37 I was able to become a student supervisor.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:45 They had created a position for me, which allowed me to help advise and support
00:24:45 --> 00:24:50 my fellow law students in representing low-income clients in and out of court.
00:24:51 --> 00:24:57 And so as a result of that, I wound up receiving a fellowship right after law
00:24:57 --> 00:25:02 school at the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Washington,
00:25:02 --> 00:25:04 D.C., and that was a one-year fellowship.
00:25:05 --> 00:25:10 Before my fellowship ended, I got a call from one of my former law professors
00:25:10 --> 00:25:16 asking me if I would come back to my alma mater, the University of Illinois,
00:25:17 --> 00:25:20 and become a visiting law professor for one year.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:27 And she said at the time that if I accepted the offer that they would help me.
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 Get a law teaching job anywhere around the country.
00:25:31 --> 00:25:37 And of course, I was shocked at the opportunity, questioned whether I was ready
00:25:37 --> 00:25:41 to teach law because I was literally one year out of law school.
00:25:41 --> 00:25:42 So I was in my 20s at the time.
00:25:43 --> 00:25:46 But I felt that it was a door that God had opened.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:53 And so I walked through it. And while I was there, I got a call from the dean of the University of St.
00:25:54 --> 00:25:57 Thomas Law School. He had been the dean of the University of Illinois.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:02 I was the last person that he hired before he became the dean of St.
00:26:02 --> 00:26:03 Thomas Law School in Minneapolis.
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 And he invited me to apply to the University of St.
00:26:08 --> 00:26:13 Thomas Law School, which was a new law school focused on faith and social justice.
00:26:14 --> 00:26:18 And I figured if I was hired there, that because it was new,
00:26:18 --> 00:26:23 I could help shape the direction of the institution and get in on the ground floor.
00:26:23 --> 00:26:27 I also figured that they weren't set in their ways, which meant that they would
00:26:27 --> 00:26:33 have space for someone like me as a young Black woman, you know, with my background.
00:26:33 --> 00:26:37 And so through that experience, I actually, when I accepted the position,
00:26:37 --> 00:26:42 it was to launch a family law clinic, which I did,
00:26:42 --> 00:26:47 representing victims of domestic violence and child victims of domestic abuse
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 and teaching law students how to advocate for them in court.
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 So we took the cases that other lawyers didn't want.
00:26:53 --> 00:26:57 They were high conflict and they were complex.
00:26:58 --> 00:27:03 But a couple years in of running that particular law clinic,
00:27:03 --> 00:27:08 I had started reading the local Black newspapers here.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:14 And when I started reading those papers, I saw a completely different version
00:27:14 --> 00:27:19 of the Twin Cities than what had been presented to me initially,
00:27:19 --> 00:27:23 because the Twin Cities has a reputation for being progressive.
00:27:23 --> 00:27:27 For being affluent, for being a place where anyone can thrive.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:31 That was the impression that I was under my first couple of years.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:35 I mean, of course, I'm in Ivory Tower of Academia, brand new multimillion dollar
00:27:35 --> 00:27:43 business building, being shielded from a lot of the problems that communities
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44 of color were experiencing.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 But once I started reading the Black newspapers, that's when I saw the truth.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:53 That's when I learned about educational disparities and.
00:27:54 --> 00:28:00 Police abuse, and low home ownership rates for Black folks and on and on.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:06 And I remember reading an article that had included the voice of an elder in
00:28:06 --> 00:28:11 our community who at the time had been the president of the St. Paul NAACP.
00:28:12 --> 00:28:17 And when I read his words in the article, it just had an impact on me.
00:28:17 --> 00:28:21 So I reached out to him and I asked if he would have coffee with me.
00:28:21 --> 00:28:28 And he did. We met at a local Black coffee shop, and we talked for about four hours.
00:28:28 --> 00:28:34 And he told me story after story after story of incidences that had impacted
00:28:34 --> 00:28:36 the Black community, going back
00:28:36 --> 00:28:42 to what his grandparents experienced in a community called Rondo in St.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:48 Paul, Minnesota, that was a self-sufficient, thriving Black community.
00:28:48 --> 00:28:53 And then the government decided to run the freeway through that community,
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 which divided it and they still haven't recovered.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 But his grandparents were the last folks to literally be dragged out of the
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 home that they purchased out of Rondo.
00:29:02 --> 00:29:07 And that sparked his fight for civil rights. So as he shared these things with
00:29:07 --> 00:29:11 me, by the end of that conversation, I said, I'm going to help you.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:15 I am going to launch a civil rights legal clinic and I'm going to bring my lawsuit
00:29:15 --> 00:29:19 to the table. Now, at the time, I honestly didn't know if the law school would
00:29:19 --> 00:29:25 be open to that shift, but I knew that I needed to be open to that shift.
00:29:25 --> 00:29:31 So I went back to the law school and asked them if I could transition from family law to civil rights.
00:29:32 --> 00:29:39 Thankfully, they said yes. And so then I launched the Community Justice Project,
00:29:39 --> 00:29:44 which is a civil rights legal clinic. and that was the first community justice
00:29:44 --> 00:29:47 clinic at a law school in the country.
00:29:47 --> 00:29:52 Shortly after that, the dean of Georgetown Law School visited St.
00:29:52 --> 00:29:56 Thomas Law School, learned about our clinic. She took the information back,
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 then they opened a community justice clinic there, and now there are community
00:30:00 --> 00:30:02 justice clinics around the country.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:09 So through that experience, it It definitely took me out of the ivory tower
00:30:09 --> 00:30:15 and out of my comfort zone into the heart of issues that impacted the Black community.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:22 And the first set of issues that we started to work with, work on collaboratively with the St.
00:30:22 --> 00:30:28 Paul NAACP was police accountability issues. And that was back in 2005.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:35 So that's how I got started, as you said, being a hell raiser. in Minnesota.
00:30:36 --> 00:30:41 So in Jackson, what neighborhood did you grow up in?
00:30:42 --> 00:30:48 So the street that I remember is Edwards Avenue in Jackson.
00:30:48 --> 00:30:52 I attended schools. My grandmother was a cafeteria lady.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:57 So, you know, I would attend schools where she was, you know,
00:30:57 --> 00:31:00 the person helping to prepare the meals.
00:31:00 --> 00:31:04 And then I would also spend time in Terry, Mississippi.
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 So that's where my mom lived in Terry.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 My grandmother and everybody else in my family lived in Jackson.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:18 So for some reason, I would half the year be in Jackson and half the year be in Terry.
00:31:19 --> 00:31:24 You know, living with my grandparents or living with my mom and my stepdad and my siblings.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:30 And so the difference between rural life and city life, you know,
00:31:30 --> 00:31:35 that's how I grew up until I moved to South Central L.A. Yeah.
00:31:35 --> 00:31:38 So I don't know if you had a chance to check in in my background,
00:31:38 --> 00:31:43 but I went to Jackson State and I ended up living in Mississippi for like 34 years.
00:31:44 --> 00:31:47 Oh, my goodness. So I thought that was fabulous. I saw the Jacksonville and
00:31:47 --> 00:31:51 said, oh, we got a connection. And then I grew up in Chicago.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:55 So the University of Illinois, you know, we got a campus there.
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 But the main one's in Champaign-Urbana.
00:31:57 --> 00:32:00 And, you know, I've had family members go there and all that stuff.
00:32:01 --> 00:32:03 So I was like, yeah, we got some dots to connect.
00:32:04 --> 00:32:07 That's incredible. Yeah, I have family members who went to Jackson State,
00:32:08 --> 00:32:11 some of my younger cousins. Yeah, yeah.
00:32:12 --> 00:32:17 All right, so you've been a candidate for public office, an NAACP chapter president,
00:32:17 --> 00:32:21 a law school professor, and the founder of the Racial Justice Network.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:26 One, in hindsight, are you glad that you are not an elected official?
00:32:26 --> 00:32:30 And two, what is a good descriptive title for you?
00:32:31 --> 00:32:37 I think in some ways I am glad that I'm not an elected official because I would
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 definitely be a lot more restrained.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:44 In terms of what I can do and what I could say.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:50 I feel free and without a filter, you know, when it comes to challenging injustice.
00:32:50 --> 00:32:57 And I appreciate that. I also know that I would have had to deal with a lot
00:32:57 --> 00:33:02 of constituents who would not have wanted me to bring about the changes that
00:33:02 --> 00:33:05 would have been necessary in Minneapolis,
00:33:05 --> 00:33:11 specifically around police accountability, which when I ran for mayor in 2017,
00:33:11 --> 00:33:16 it was on a police accountability platform because I saw the handwriting on
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 the wall that if we don't change this and that,
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 we're gonna become the next Ferguson, right?
00:33:22 --> 00:33:26 Which is something I said publicly before George Floyd was killed.
00:33:26 --> 00:33:31 So I think that it was a part of God's plan for me to run, to put the issues
00:33:31 --> 00:33:39 on the table and to give people a choice to avoid what we dealt with in 2020 and beyond.
00:33:40 --> 00:33:44 They chose to maintain the status quo.
00:33:45 --> 00:33:51 That's what we got. And literally the rest is history in terms of Minneapolis.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:58 Not now just being known as a progressive place, but being a place where George Floyd was murdered.
00:33:59 --> 00:34:04 And that will sadly forever be a stain on the city's history.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:12 So I'm glad that I was not constrained by what would have happened if I would
00:34:12 --> 00:34:14 have become an elected official.
00:34:14 --> 00:34:19 I still have people encouraging me to run for mayor or encouraging me to run for Congress.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:24 And I say no, you know, each time I enjoy my freedom.
00:34:24 --> 00:34:36 And being a voice that is able to use the legal system and the laws that are meant to oppress us.
00:34:37 --> 00:34:44 As a way of flipping, flipping on their head in order to fight back against those injustices.
00:34:44 --> 00:34:46 I feel like that's a big part of my calling.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:53 And then can you repeat the second question that you have? What is a good descriptive title for you?
00:34:53 --> 00:35:00 I would say probably Freedom Fighter maybe is the best descriptive title for me.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:07 It honestly is difficult at times because I don't fit into a normal box, right?
00:35:07 --> 00:35:12 So I'm an ordained reverend, right? On top of being a lawyer and the other things
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14 that you mentioned, but I don't lead with that.
00:35:14 --> 00:35:21 It's just like whatever is in me, it comes out the way that it needs to during the time that it does.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:28 So I would say Freedom Fighter probably best captures who I am and what I do
00:35:28 --> 00:35:32 so that it can transcend a title or a position that I'm in.
00:35:33 --> 00:35:42 I just feel like God placed me here for a reason and I just try to embody my purpose whenever I can.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:50 So what did your health scare in 2022 teach you and how did it motivate you to continue the work?
00:35:50 --> 00:35:59 So I would say that my health scare really taught me the value of being healthy.
00:35:59 --> 00:36:05 That's a form of wealth that I don't think we pay enough attention to or take
00:36:05 --> 00:36:08 seriously until you are not healthy.
00:36:09 --> 00:36:17 And so I think that I prioritize health a lot more and resting my body a lot
00:36:17 --> 00:36:20 more since that experience.
00:36:20 --> 00:36:25 I also learned the power of resilience.
00:36:25 --> 00:36:31 I think I thought I I knew resilience until, you know, going through basically,
00:36:31 --> 00:36:35 you know, being diagnosed with a brain tumor, you know, and...
00:36:36 --> 00:36:43 Having that impact my vision and my right eye, and then also trying to find
00:36:43 --> 00:36:51 myself again or figure out who am I in the aftermath of this medical crisis.
00:36:51 --> 00:36:57 And I feel that I'm still learning who I am, like new versions of myself after
00:36:57 --> 00:36:58 going through that experience.
00:36:58 --> 00:37:04 But I think my level of empathy is a lot deeper for people who are going through
00:37:04 --> 00:37:08 medical issues because I know what it's like.
00:37:08 --> 00:37:14 It's hard to explain to people when they haven't been through it,
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16 what it really feels like.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:22 And it's weird for me too, because I went public with my experience months after
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 I had neurosurgery to let people know what was going on.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:30 And sometimes I'll be out with my family or my kids and I'll have people,
00:37:30 --> 00:37:35 you know, say, ask me questions about it or, you know, say, you know,
00:37:35 --> 00:37:37 how, how's the cancer going?
00:37:37 --> 00:37:42 I'm like, well, I never had cancer, but it's still kind of weird because if
00:37:42 --> 00:37:47 I'm out with my children, I'm not thinking about a brain tumor or I'm just thinking
00:37:47 --> 00:37:50 about enjoying my life and being with them,
00:37:50 --> 00:37:52 but it's on other people's minds.
00:37:53 --> 00:37:59 So, you know, it's Still, it's like a balancing act in that sense of trying
00:37:59 --> 00:38:05 to be responsive when people ask me, but also just trying to protect myself
00:38:05 --> 00:38:07 and my family because I don't want my kids...
00:38:08 --> 00:38:11 Thinking about it, you know, because at the time when it happened,
00:38:12 --> 00:38:14 you know, I have four children.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:20 And so my youngest two, one was beginning their senior year of high school.
00:38:21 --> 00:38:26 And my youngest child was beginning, I believe, kindergarten.
00:38:26 --> 00:38:32 So I was, you know, thinking about them. And am I going to be here,
00:38:32 --> 00:38:33 you know, after this surgery?
00:38:34 --> 00:38:39 Am I going to be the same person? Will I be able to walk and talk and do all
00:38:39 --> 00:38:41 the things. I honestly had no idea.
00:38:41 --> 00:38:47 And it's by the grace of God that I am here and I do feel like I'm still recovering,
00:38:47 --> 00:38:52 but I just feel, I don't know, deeper,
00:38:52 --> 00:38:58 a deeper sense of purpose now that I have recovered to this extent. Yeah.
00:38:59 --> 00:39:05 All right. In November of 2021, You wrote an op-ed for the New York Times entitled
00:39:05 --> 00:39:10 Black Voters Need Better Policing, Not Progressive Posturing.
00:39:10 --> 00:39:14 You end the piece saying this. Black lives need to be valued,
00:39:14 --> 00:39:19 not just when unjustly taken by the police, but when we are alive and demanding
00:39:19 --> 00:39:22 our right to be heard, to breathe,
00:39:22 --> 00:39:28 to live in safe neighborhoods, and to enjoy the full benefits of our status as American citizens.
00:39:28 --> 00:39:34 That all takes hard work, not just rhetoric, political posturing,
00:39:34 --> 00:39:39 and empty promises So my question to you is, how are we doing so far?
00:39:40 --> 00:39:45 We'll probably add a D plus or an F.
00:39:46 --> 00:39:52 I mean, honestly, we haven't progressed to the level that we should.
00:39:52 --> 00:39:59 Obviously, it's only been, you know, what, less than four years since I wrote
00:39:59 --> 00:40:03 that op-ed, which is a short amount of time, you know, in the grand scheme of
00:40:03 --> 00:40:07 things and in the grand scheme of our history in this country.
00:40:07 --> 00:40:13 But the fact that no real building blocks have been put in place even to get
00:40:13 --> 00:40:16 towards that ideal, I think is problematic.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:21 And I don't think there's an intention to get towards that ideal.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:26 I think that there is an intention to check off some boxes to appease us so
00:40:26 --> 00:40:30 that we can keep showing up at the polls, even if, you know,
00:40:30 --> 00:40:36 not enough is happening for our community that makes it worth us handing over our vote,
00:40:36 --> 00:40:38 you know, during each election.
00:40:38 --> 00:40:47 You know, unfortunately, politics is really more about perception in too many
00:40:47 --> 00:40:53 circumstances than it is about bringing about tangible changes,
00:40:53 --> 00:40:58 especially for groups that have been historically disenfranchised,
00:40:58 --> 00:41:00 marginalized, and oppressed.
00:41:00 --> 00:41:05 And it doesn't matter who's in office Unfortunately when it comes to black folks
00:41:05 --> 00:41:12 Because if it mattered that Democrats were in office We would have had reparations by now.
00:41:13 --> 00:41:18 Right. We would have had some of the historical inequities be addressed by now, but we haven't.
00:41:18 --> 00:41:22 We've had Democrats, unfortunately, playing a role in our oppression,
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 like the crime bill, the war on drugs and on and on.
00:41:26 --> 00:41:32 And I don't I don't know how much hope I have that the political system can
00:41:32 --> 00:41:34 bring about the changes that are necessary.
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 Do I think we have to keep applying pressure to the political system?
00:41:39 --> 00:41:45 Absolutely. Do I think we need to be intentional about electing people who actually
00:41:45 --> 00:41:51 care about our plight, who understand our history, and who are willing to fight for us?
00:41:52 --> 00:41:58 100%. But do I think that the average politician is going to stick their neck
00:41:58 --> 00:42:03 out for the benefit of Black folks? No, I do not.
00:42:04 --> 00:42:10 We haven't seen it happen often enough throughout history to give me that confidence.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:16 We have seen it happen at times, right, where we've even seen some white politicians
00:42:16 --> 00:42:22 from during the day of the slavery go to the mat to fight for an end to slavery.
00:42:22 --> 00:42:28 I'm thinking about Charles Sumner, I think his name was, from Massachusetts,
00:42:28 --> 00:42:35 a congressman who actually was beaten for standing up for us in Congress and
00:42:35 --> 00:42:36 fighting for our freedom.
00:42:36 --> 00:42:40 So we have had people who've done that, but that is few and far between.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:45 Most elected officials, in my opinion, are going to protect themselves at all costs,
00:42:46 --> 00:42:52 and do what is politically expedient, not what is just and righteous,
00:42:52 --> 00:42:57 and certainly not what benefits the masses of Black people.
00:42:57 --> 00:43:01 As you said, you lived in Mississippi for over 30 years.
00:43:02 --> 00:43:07 As you know, there are certain parts of Jackson that you can go into that are
00:43:07 --> 00:43:16 still frozen in time and look like what you can imagine houses look like during
00:43:16 --> 00:43:19 the Jim Crow era and neighborhoods look like during the Jim Crow era.
00:43:19 --> 00:43:22 And the level of poverty mirrors that as well.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:27 That to me, for the richest nation in the world, is a sign that we're not serious
00:43:27 --> 00:43:33 about addressing longstanding inequalities that Black people have experienced.
00:43:34 --> 00:43:40 Yeah, when, you know, it's just It's amazing that when Mississippi was in slavery,
00:43:40 --> 00:43:42 it was the richest state in the nation.
00:43:43 --> 00:43:47 And once slavery ended, now it's the poorest state in the nation.
00:43:48 --> 00:43:52 And I think there's a correlation to the fact that percentage-wise,
00:43:52 --> 00:43:53 it's the blackest state in the nation.
00:43:54 --> 00:44:01 And you would figure that more black elected officials are in Mississippi than
00:44:01 --> 00:44:05 any other state in the nation. you would figure that would correlate some kind of change.
00:44:06 --> 00:44:12 And having been one of those black elected officials, I can attest to you that progress was made.
00:44:13 --> 00:44:19 But you know, it's like when you don't have the resources to back up the commitment,
00:44:19 --> 00:44:22 then it just becomes hard.
00:44:22 --> 00:44:27 And then people get upset because it's like when say people say they want to be self-sufficient.
00:44:27 --> 00:44:31 I mean, the phrase black power literally started in Mississippi, right?
00:44:32 --> 00:44:37 It's like then there's this automatic pushback. We can't allow that to happen.
00:44:38 --> 00:44:41 You know, I don't know if they're afraid we're going to turn the tables or what the deal was.
00:44:42 --> 00:44:51 I mean, we've had, we literally had a member of the Republic of New Africa evolve
00:44:51 --> 00:44:55 to become the mayor of Jackson, and then his son became the mayor.
00:44:57 --> 00:45:00 And black folks are still struggling. You know what I'm saying?
00:45:00 --> 00:45:07 So, you know, I remember the water crisis that they're just right.
00:45:07 --> 00:45:15 And that was and that was a situation where when the money was coming in,
00:45:15 --> 00:45:20 we still have white leadership in Jackson and that money got pocketed.
00:45:20 --> 00:45:24 It didn't get it didn't go to upgrading the facility.
00:45:24 --> 00:45:29 And so by the time black leadership took over Jackson, now the federal government
00:45:29 --> 00:45:33 is like, we about to find you for this. We about to find you for that.
00:45:33 --> 00:45:40 And even when we got the legislature to allow the citizens of Jackson to tax
00:45:40 --> 00:45:44 themselves so they could fix it, there were loopholes in there.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:47 It's like the white folks had to have a commission and determine,
00:45:48 --> 00:45:50 can you spend this amount of money?
00:45:50 --> 00:45:56 This is tax revenue that the citizens paid, but some white folks had to tell
00:45:56 --> 00:46:00 when they, you know, how much money they could spend out of their tax money.
00:46:00 --> 00:46:04 And the governor also opposed those efforts. remember
00:46:04 --> 00:46:07 he was trying to negotiate to take over
00:46:07 --> 00:46:10 the airport in exchange for allowing
00:46:10 --> 00:46:14 the resources to come to people so
00:46:14 --> 00:46:17 they can live yeah and have clean water
00:46:17 --> 00:46:22 which just makes no sense at all yeah so it's just like you know that's why
00:46:22 --> 00:46:28 you know having been an activist and been an elected official i totally concur
00:46:28 --> 00:46:32 with you you got a lot more freedom being out in the street than you do in that
00:46:32 --> 00:46:34 Capitol building where I was.
00:46:35 --> 00:46:41 But, you know, that's the issue to me is resources more than anything else.
00:46:41 --> 00:46:45 We've got to have, you know, when you're in the poorest state in the nation,
00:46:45 --> 00:46:50 you don't have much to pull from, no matter how good your ideas are.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:54 But then, you know, if you look at places that have the money,
00:46:54 --> 00:46:56 you know, what's the excuse there?
00:46:57 --> 00:46:59 Right. Other than the lack of commitment.
00:47:00 --> 00:47:06 And maybe a lack of commitment and a lack of consciousness could be part of it. Yeah.
00:47:06 --> 00:47:09 Yeah. Well, it definitely is the lack of conscience for sure.
00:47:09 --> 00:47:14 And that's, you know, let me ask you this real quick, because that wasn't a planned question.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:19 But since you brought it up, how do you feel when they say that black folks
00:47:19 --> 00:47:21 are the conscience of the nation?
00:47:22 --> 00:47:26 How does that make you feel considering all the struggles that we're still dealing with?
00:47:27 --> 00:47:30 Well, I think that in many ways, that is the truth.
00:47:30 --> 00:47:35 You know, until I always think about the color purple, right? Until you do right by me.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:40 I feel that that applies, you know, to what we experience in this nation,
00:47:40 --> 00:47:48 that America will never be what it claims to be until they do right by Black people in this country.
00:47:48 --> 00:47:52 And I think we've had people, James Baldwin, Langston Hughes,
00:47:52 --> 00:47:55 you know, who've alluded to that same notion.
00:47:56 --> 00:48:04 And we are the folks who are responsible for the building of this nation, in my opinion.
00:48:04 --> 00:48:10 Like you mentioned how wealthy Mississippi was when it was relying upon slave labor.
00:48:10 --> 00:48:16 You know, the labor of our ancestors, our people who toiled from before sunup
00:48:16 --> 00:48:21 to way after sundown, helping to build the economy of this nation.
00:48:21 --> 00:48:28 You travel to Washington, D.C., and you realize black people built Washington, D.C., right?
00:48:29 --> 00:48:31 And that's the heart of our government.
00:48:31 --> 00:48:35 And not to mention everything else that we add, right?
00:48:36 --> 00:48:41 Culturally, our soul that we bring to the table, our spirituality,
00:48:42 --> 00:48:47 our creativity, our ingenuity, our sense of royalty when we know who we are,
00:48:47 --> 00:48:49 all the things that we...
00:48:49 --> 00:48:53 I mean, even when you're driving and using your GPS, knowing that a black woman
00:48:53 --> 00:48:55 created that technology.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:01 And that's just the tip of the iceberg in terms of all of the inventions and
00:49:01 --> 00:49:07 things that we have created that have helped the United States be positioned
00:49:07 --> 00:49:09 as the number one world power.
00:49:10 --> 00:49:16 And we don't get the credit that we deserve as a community. We certainly don't get the resources that.
00:49:17 --> 00:49:24 That we deserve as a community. And we don't get the knowledge that we should
00:49:24 --> 00:49:26 have as a community to know who we really are.
00:49:26 --> 00:49:31 We're constantly being defined by who white people say we are.
00:49:31 --> 00:49:37 And we know that that is an anemic version of the truth at best,
00:49:37 --> 00:49:42 and really just outright lies, you know, because they write the stories,
00:49:42 --> 00:49:46 they write history, quote unquote, and that's what they feed to us,
00:49:46 --> 00:49:49 but we have to go digging to know the truth of who we are.
00:49:49 --> 00:49:55 And the fact that we're still here after all the efforts that have been made
00:49:55 --> 00:50:01 to annihilate us shows the strength of our spirit that can't be bought and sold,
00:50:01 --> 00:50:03 no matter how hard they try.
00:50:04 --> 00:50:09 Yeah. All right. So let's close this out because one of the things that you
00:50:09 --> 00:50:14 have done always is not only you talk to talk, but walk the walk.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:17 So you've written this book called J for Justice.
00:50:17 --> 00:50:19 So talk to the listeners about that.
00:50:20 --> 00:50:29 Yes. My heart is like really into J is for Justice because it's connected to our babies, right?
00:50:29 --> 00:50:33 And just understanding that our children are watching.
00:50:33 --> 00:50:35 They're listening. They want to
00:50:35 --> 00:50:40 participate in our fight for freedom when they're given the opportunity.
00:50:40 --> 00:50:45 I think about the children during the Children's March of the Civil Rights Movement
00:50:45 --> 00:50:48 and the role they played when Dr.
00:50:48 --> 00:50:52 King went into the schools and called him out, you know, because the adults
00:50:52 --> 00:50:56 had to get back to work during the times of demonstrating and protesting.
00:50:56 --> 00:50:58 And the children took up the mantle.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:04 They wanted to be out of school and fight for our freedom. And they did.
00:51:04 --> 00:51:09 You know, they faced water hoses, police dogs, arrests, beatings.
00:51:10 --> 00:51:14 As young as eight years old, which is just so remarkable to me.
00:51:14 --> 00:51:20 And so, you know, learning about that history was not only empowering,
00:51:20 --> 00:51:26 it helped to be able to put it into context as we were here in Minnesota,
00:51:26 --> 00:51:30 marching and protesting and fighting for justice.
00:51:30 --> 00:51:34 Our movement here started, I would say, around 2014.
00:51:34 --> 00:51:39 You know, we've been consistent since that time. That was after Mike Brown was
00:51:39 --> 00:51:42 killed in Ferguson. That's when we got organized here.
00:51:43 --> 00:51:50 And we started to ensure that children could be a part of our activism,
00:51:51 --> 00:51:53 you know, showing up at protests and demonstrating.
00:51:53 --> 00:51:58 In 2017, when I was running for mayor, I was pregnant with my daughter,
00:51:58 --> 00:52:00 my youngest child, who is now seven.
00:52:01 --> 00:52:05 So from the womb, you know, she was involved in activism.
00:52:05 --> 00:52:10 And, you know, And when she was little, we would push her in her stroller and
00:52:10 --> 00:52:13 have her march with us in protests.
00:52:13 --> 00:52:18 And so in thinking about that experience and the experience of so many other
00:52:18 --> 00:52:21 children who were out on the front lines with their parents,
00:52:21 --> 00:52:26 marching, chanting and holding signs, I wrote that book, J is for Justice.
00:52:27 --> 00:52:31 And a part of it is to help explain to children, you know, about the power of
00:52:31 --> 00:52:36 protesting, but also the fact that they're never too young to use their voices
00:52:36 --> 00:52:39 when they see injustice happening.
00:52:39 --> 00:52:47 So I've taken that book into schools around the Twin Cities and I've read with children,
00:52:47 --> 00:52:50 had them read to me and, you know,
00:52:50 --> 00:52:57 chant with me and also express how they feel about what they're learning through
00:52:57 --> 00:53:02 the book and also what they witness either in person or on television with regard
00:53:02 --> 00:53:04 to protests and demonstrations.
00:53:04 --> 00:53:07 So it's something that's important to
00:53:07 --> 00:53:14 me to pass along to the next generation and future generations for them to have
00:53:14 --> 00:53:20 something to refer to that helps them put our struggle into context and to know
00:53:20 --> 00:53:25 that they're not just people looking on the outside as children,
00:53:25 --> 00:53:30 but they're an integral part of not only why we're fighting,
00:53:30 --> 00:53:31 what we're fighting for,
00:53:32 --> 00:53:38 but also the spirit that they have is a part of our liberation.
00:53:39 --> 00:53:45 And I'll just conclude with something that I was told many years ago,
00:53:45 --> 00:53:49 not just me, but I was on a panel with Taylor Branch,
00:53:49 --> 00:53:54 who is a biographer for a number of books about Dr.
00:53:54 --> 00:53:57 King and the Civil Rights Movement. And for those who don't know,
00:53:57 --> 00:54:03 he's an older white man who was growing up in the South during the time of the Civil Rights Movement.
00:54:03 --> 00:54:08 And after Dr. King was assassinated, he started investigating and,
00:54:08 --> 00:54:10 you know, writing these books.
00:54:10 --> 00:54:14 And one of the things that he said when we were on the panel together was what
00:54:14 --> 00:54:18 actually got him involved in writing about Dr.
00:54:18 --> 00:54:25 King and the Civil Rights Movement was seeing our Black children on television marching.
00:54:26 --> 00:54:30 Facing water hoses, police dogs, and brutality. And he said,
00:54:30 --> 00:54:34 it made him wonder, what is that spirit on the inside of these children?
00:54:34 --> 00:54:38 I have to know, I have to learn. And that's how he became who he is.
00:54:39 --> 00:54:45 So our kids have had an indelible impact on our history, and they will continue
00:54:45 --> 00:54:49 to do so if we give them the space and opportunity to be a part.
00:54:50 --> 00:54:52 So how can people get the book?
00:54:52 --> 00:54:54 Excuse me and how can people reach
00:54:54 --> 00:54:59 out to you if they want you to speak or just talk to you about issues.
00:55:00 --> 00:55:06 So people can get my book online. It's on Amazon and Barnes and Nobles and a
00:55:06 --> 00:55:09 lot of other websites where books are sold.
00:55:09 --> 00:55:13 They can also reach out to their local bookstores and ask them to order it.
00:55:13 --> 00:55:18 They can order it from my website, nikemalevyarmstrong.com.
00:55:18 --> 00:55:24 They can reach out to me there or through Instagram. My handle is at Nikema L.
00:55:24 --> 00:55:29 And then on Facebook, my name is Nikema Levy Armstrong.
00:55:30 --> 00:55:33 Well, Nikema Levy Armstrong, I am,
00:55:34 --> 00:55:40 again, honored to have you on, and I wish you much continued success,
00:55:40 --> 00:55:45 not only in the activism part, but also in educating our young people,
00:55:46 --> 00:55:47 whether it's at the elementary level,
00:55:48 --> 00:55:50 secondary level, or at the collegiate level.
00:55:50 --> 00:55:54 I think you are a true godsend.
00:55:54 --> 00:56:00 Another reminder that a lot of good things come from Mississippi via South Central LA.
00:56:01 --> 00:56:04 And just keep praying that you keep doing what you're doing.
00:56:05 --> 00:56:07 And the fact that you're an ordained minister now, it's like,
00:56:08 --> 00:56:11 you know, now you truly are a warrior.
00:56:11 --> 00:56:15 So I'm honored. You know, I know you've been on Oprah and a bunch of other things.
00:56:16 --> 00:56:20 I'm glad you came on my little podcast. And I'm extremely honored you did that. Thank you.
00:56:20 --> 00:56:25 Thank you so much for having me on your podcast and for everything that you
00:56:25 --> 00:56:31 do to educate our people and to bring hope through these conversations and raise
00:56:31 --> 00:56:32 awareness for our people.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:37 So I pray for your continued success and that doors just continue to open for
00:56:37 --> 00:56:42 you and that you're strategically positioned in the right place at the right time always.
00:56:43 --> 00:56:46 So thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you.
00:56:46 --> 00:56:50 It's been an honor. Well, thank you so much. all right guys and we're gonna
00:56:50 --> 00:56:51 catch y'all on the other side.
00:56:53 --> 00:57:11 Music.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:15 All right. And we are back. And so now it's time for my next guest,
00:57:16 --> 00:57:18 Janice Robinson Celeste.
00:57:19 --> 00:57:23 Janice Robinson Celeste is a distinguished businesswoman, author,
00:57:24 --> 00:57:28 entrepreneur and educator with an extensive career spanning early childhood
00:57:28 --> 00:57:31 education, nonprofit leadership and media.
00:57:31 --> 00:57:35 As the founder and publisher of Successful Black Parenting Magazine,
00:57:36 --> 00:57:38 a multi-award-winning publication,
00:57:39 --> 00:57:43 Janice has dedicated herself to empowering Black families through resources
00:57:43 --> 00:57:47 that support their children's growth, education, and well-being.
00:57:48 --> 00:57:54 She is also the executive producer of Ethnic Animations and the host of Backtalk,
00:57:54 --> 00:57:59 a syndicated podcast that focuses on topics relevant to Black parents and families.
00:58:00 --> 00:58:04 Janice holds a degree in early childhood education and a master's degree in
00:58:04 --> 00:58:08 business, equipping her with the expertise to lead and innovate in her field.
00:58:09 --> 00:58:13 She has held key roles, including early childhood specialists at Children's
00:58:13 --> 00:58:18 Hospital of Philadelphia's Child Guidance Center, where she supported parents
00:58:18 --> 00:58:19 facing substance abuse challenges.
00:58:20 --> 00:58:25 She also served as the school-age child care coordinator with the nonprofit
00:58:25 --> 00:58:28 organization Parents Union for Public Schools.
00:58:28 --> 00:58:34 And as executive branch director at a multimillion-dollar YMCA where she oversaw
00:58:34 --> 00:58:40 operations and managed the NEYC-accredited child care program and summer camp.
00:58:40 --> 00:58:44 Additionally, Janice has taught at several educational levels,
00:58:44 --> 00:58:48 including at Hofstra University in New York, where she shared her expertise
00:58:48 --> 00:58:50 in multimedia journalism with students.
00:58:50 --> 00:58:55 A published author of multiple children's and parenting books,
00:58:56 --> 00:59:00 including Pride and Joy, African-American Baby Celebrations,
00:59:00 --> 00:59:02 and a toddler board book,
00:59:02 --> 00:59:07 Miles Stuffy Nose, which won the Gold Seal Mom's Choice Award.
00:59:07 --> 00:59:11 Janice has received recognition for her work, including awards from Allstate
00:59:11 --> 00:59:18 as a Woman of Triumph alongside Patti LaBelle and the Sarah Award for Women in Communications.
00:59:18 --> 00:59:23 Her writing contributions extend to the Huffington Post, and her business plan
00:59:23 --> 00:59:27 has garnered accolades with the Benjamin Franklin Technology Award.
00:59:28 --> 00:59:32 Janice's passion for helping others extends beyond her professional endeavors.
00:59:32 --> 00:59:35 She is the founder of the National Black Parenting Conference,
00:59:35 --> 00:59:40 an initiative that brings together black parents and professionals to share
00:59:40 --> 00:59:43 valuable resources and foster community support.
00:59:43 --> 00:59:48 She has also presented at events like the National Parenting Conference at Disney
00:59:48 --> 00:59:51 and the National Black Child Development Conference.
00:59:51 --> 00:59:55 Janice resides in Atlanta, where she continues to uplift her community through
00:59:55 --> 00:59:58 her diverse initiatives and leadership roles.
00:59:58 --> 01:00:02 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
01:00:02 --> 01:00:07 on this podcast, Janice Robinson Celeste.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:19 Music.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:23 Janice Robinson Celeste. How you doing, ma'am? You doing good?
01:00:23 --> 01:00:28 I am fabulous. Fabulous. I told you I just found out the Pope is black.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:36 Yeah, yeah. That's a startling revelation.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:39 It was one thing to say he's from the United States, but now that we understand
01:00:39 --> 01:00:45 he might have a Creole background, we think that's going to spice up the Vatican
01:00:45 --> 01:00:50 a little bit as well as some other folks. Oh, yeah. It's been confirmed by the New York Times.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:53 The National Catholic Reporter is confirmed. He is Creole.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:58 Yeah. Yeah. So that's going to be that's going to be interesting.
01:00:58 --> 01:01:02 That's about the closest we were going to get, because I never saw at least
01:01:02 --> 01:01:04 some of the African cardinals were being considered.
01:01:05 --> 01:01:09 But, yeah, I did. I didn't think it was going to happen. I think the closest
01:01:09 --> 01:01:11 I thought I was going to see one was in that movie Conclave.
01:01:12 --> 01:01:13 I don't know if you ever saw that. I did.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:17 I recently saw it because of the Pope's death.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:20 Pope Francis, I was like, oh, OK, I want to know how this works.
01:01:21 --> 01:01:24 And I didn't know it was going to be that good. I actually fell asleep the first
01:01:24 --> 01:01:25 time I watched the first part.
01:01:25 --> 01:01:29 And that's me. If there's no action in the beginning, I'm sleeping on any movie.
01:01:29 --> 01:01:34 But then I got back to it and I was like, this is really good. It was so dramatic.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:39 So really, really good. I highly recommend it. Yeah, I did a term paper when
01:01:39 --> 01:01:43 I was in elementary school about the Catholic Church.
01:01:43 --> 01:01:46 So I was kind of familiar with the process and all that stuff.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:51 But to actually see it on the screen like that, it added a new dimension to it.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:54 Oh, yeah, I went to Catholic school for 10 years. So we knew,
01:01:54 --> 01:01:57 but I didn't really know, you know, all the insights.
01:01:57 --> 01:02:00 And that movie really brings a lot to light. Yeah.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:07 So what I like to do to kind of kick the interview off is to do a couple of icebreakers.
01:02:08 --> 01:02:10 So the first icebreaker is a quote.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:16 So I want to get your response to that. Ultimately, I believe in taking calculated
01:02:16 --> 01:02:23 risks, staying true to my purpose, and always striving for the best outcome for everyone involved.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:28 That's how I navigate the tough decisions. And so far, it's been a rewarding
01:02:28 --> 01:02:31 journey. What does that quote mean to you?
01:02:31 --> 01:02:35 It kind of describes how I live my life.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:41 I've taken very calculated risks from the time I was a child on to now.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:48 Matter of fact, my family know that I'm a risk taker and it's kind of defined my life and who I am.
01:02:48 --> 01:02:51 Even down to doing the magazine was a huge risk.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:55 My uncle came to me one time and I didn't realize how my family viewed it.
01:02:56 --> 01:02:58 And he said, you know, he saw me on television is what happened.
01:02:58 --> 01:03:01 You know, once you're on TV, you're real in your family, right?
01:03:01 --> 01:03:05 But so saw me on TV and was like, Janice, I've got to tell you,
01:03:05 --> 01:03:09 I've got to give it to you because whatever you say you're going to do, you do it.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:13 I was like, I guess I do. Okay. Yeah.
01:03:13 --> 01:03:17 That's who I am. And I've taken risks.
01:03:17 --> 01:03:23 I just say I really have someone looking out for me, bigger than me for sure,
01:03:23 --> 01:03:26 because they could have went totally left, you know.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:32 But it's always worked out for me. My mom always told me my name was of a god,
01:03:32 --> 01:03:37 Janus, J-A-N-U-S, which means open doors. So when one closes, one opens.
01:03:37 --> 01:03:43 So I try to keep that in mind as I'm also looking at my life and looking back upon it.
01:03:43 --> 01:03:49 Yeah. All right. So next icebreaker, give me a number between 1 and 20.
01:03:50 --> 01:03:52 28. Oh, 1 to 20. Ha ha ha.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:57 Sorry. I already had it in my head. All right. So let's go 8. Okay. Okay.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:04 What is the one thing you hope the new administration will do or not do during their term?
01:04:05 --> 01:04:07 Oh, will do or not do.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:13 Since I don't have any confidence that they'll do anything correct, not do.
01:04:13 --> 01:04:19 I just hope they don't hurt people in the process. But that's already been proven to have happened.
01:04:19 --> 01:04:23 I hope there's no, and I'm going to say it's going to sound really harsh.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:29 But because I know history really well and I see the playbook that he's following,
01:04:29 --> 01:04:33 which has to do World War II and somebody with the H name,
01:04:34 --> 01:04:39 Hitler, I'm hoping that it's not going to be a genocide, especially for our
01:04:39 --> 01:04:44 people, because I know we're dancing, doing our line dances and boots on the
01:04:44 --> 01:04:47 ground and ignoring the protests. And I'm all for that.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:51 At the same time, I think we need to be calculated and be ready for anything
01:04:51 --> 01:04:54 because we don't know what they're going to do.
01:04:54 --> 01:04:59 And it seems like this country has buyer's remorse after they bought slaves
01:04:59 --> 01:05:00 here to build the country.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:05 And then they didn't know what to do with us. And thus, we had everything from Jim Crow to prison.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:12 So they are now looking to deport U.S. citizens. We're not exempt for that.
01:05:13 --> 01:05:16 Before, when he was president, he wanted to put on the census,
01:05:16 --> 01:05:21 and I'm putting two together here, but they wanted to put on the census a checkbox
01:05:21 --> 01:05:26 so African Americans can say what country they actually had their heritage from.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:30 Of course, we don't know that. We have to go get our DNA, and there's probably
01:05:30 --> 01:05:32 several countries, as I know from my DNA analysis.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:37 And so the only reason he wanted to do that is to send us back there, if he could.
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40 And I said that back then when he was president the first time.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:43 And here we are now. You see he's deporting people anywhere.
01:05:44 --> 01:05:47 That's not even their country. You know, he's deporting U.S.
01:05:48 --> 01:05:50 Citizens. You know, he deported a five-year-old girl because her mother wasn't
01:05:50 --> 01:05:53 a citizen. And she is. And her father is.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:55 And she was sick with cancer, right?
01:05:56 --> 01:06:01 So my concern is that when they finish with them, we might be next.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:04 And I just hope they don't hurt us. And if I can be deported,
01:06:05 --> 01:06:07 I'm like, send me to the Cayman Islands. I have family there.
01:06:07 --> 01:06:08 I'd be happy to live there.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:13 Send me there. Or Costa Rica. Somewhere cool. Don't send me to El Salvador or Libya.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:17 And I don't belong. You know, that's what's going on. So I'm hoping they don't do that.
01:06:18 --> 01:06:23 Yeah, I was just thinking about school days when Lawrence Fishburne's character
01:06:23 --> 01:06:29 was confronting Giancarlo Esposito's character and talking about going back
01:06:29 --> 01:06:32 to Africa, Giancarlo said, I'm from Detroit. You know what I'm saying?
01:06:33 --> 01:06:36 I'm going to Ghana. I think Ghana's gorgeous and they are accepting us.
01:06:36 --> 01:06:38 I don't even mind going to Ghana. I love that.
01:06:39 --> 01:06:44 I tend to like the Caribbean with the turquoise water and white sands.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:45 I'm like, send me to the Caribbean.
01:06:45 --> 01:06:49 That's easy for me. I love it. But I wouldn't mind being in Ghana either.
01:06:50 --> 01:06:54 Yeah, I think the African country I go to is Marituas. Yeah,
01:06:54 --> 01:06:57 that's nice too. Yeah, it's beautiful down there. Absolutely.
01:06:58 --> 01:07:03 All right. So why and how did you start Successful Black Parenting Magazine?
01:07:04 --> 01:07:09 A long time ago. When we first got started, we were in print only because the
01:07:09 --> 01:07:11 internet was not what it is today.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:18 It was AOL, dial-up, 1990s, and I was working for Children's High Hospital for
01:07:18 --> 01:07:22 a program for their child guidance center, and I was a parent educator.
01:07:22 --> 01:07:27 So an early childhood specialist, I had to teach parents who happened to be
01:07:27 --> 01:07:32 drug addicted in West Philadelphia how to raise their children so that they
01:07:32 --> 01:07:35 are well-rounded as possible with their addiction and as they were trying to
01:07:35 --> 01:07:38 get off of whatever drugs they were on. So I worked with social workers and everyone.
01:07:39 --> 01:07:43 There's one social worker I worked with. She convinced me to start the magazine.
01:07:44 --> 01:07:48 I was writing my own articles because I couldn't find articles that were culturally
01:07:48 --> 01:07:51 enriched because parent magazine, you know, if you're stressed,
01:07:52 --> 01:07:53 go take a trip to Disney World with your family.
01:07:53 --> 01:07:56 That wasn't, we couldn't do that, right? We didn't have that kind of money.
01:07:57 --> 01:08:00 There was no black representation in parenting magazines at the time.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:02 There was nothing on the covers, nothing inside.
01:08:03 --> 01:08:05 They didn't talk about our hair. They didn't talk about anything.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:09 So she kept convincing me and I said to her and she was Mexican.
01:08:09 --> 01:08:13 She convinced me and I said to her, if you do this with me, I'll do it. Okay.
01:08:14 --> 01:08:19 And she did. And we studied for two years how to do it and flipped the switch.
01:08:19 --> 01:08:21 And we had a print magazine.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:26 We decided to do 100 copies, sent them out to doctor's offices for free.
01:08:27 --> 01:08:29 We did free circulation, got advertisers' attention.
01:08:30 --> 01:08:33 Eventually, it took about a year, which was kind of a year too late for us.
01:08:33 --> 01:08:35 We were really struggling by that time. They did come on board.
01:08:36 --> 01:08:38 Kept it open for like two, almost three years.
01:08:39 --> 01:08:42 And then we decided to close it for various reasons. I found some corruption
01:08:42 --> 01:08:43 I didn't like in the industry.
01:08:43 --> 01:08:47 Missing my kids. I was on tour speaking to different women's groups,
01:08:47 --> 01:08:49 African-American women's groups all over the country.
01:08:50 --> 01:08:54 I love doing that, but my kids were little. So I felt like a hypocrite because
01:08:54 --> 01:08:57 here I am talking about how to raise your children. And I'm leaving my children
01:08:57 --> 01:09:00 with my mom all the time because I'm trying to, and I miss them.
01:09:00 --> 01:09:05 So between all of that and the money not coming fast enough, we funded it ourselves.
01:09:05 --> 01:09:09 You know, Black businesses are typically underfunded, especially publishing. I decided to close it.
01:09:10 --> 01:09:14 So for 20 something years, we lamented about it. Me and Marta,
01:09:14 --> 01:09:16 the girl that's helped me start. We've been we were friends ever since.
01:09:17 --> 01:09:21 And we said, hey, you know what? The Internet like it is now and all our skills.
01:09:21 --> 01:09:24 I got photography, web design, photo, everything, video.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:30 We could have killed this, you know, and Black Lives Matter started surfacing 2016.
01:09:30 --> 01:09:33 And I said, hey, you know, we should have a representation on the Internet.
01:09:33 --> 01:09:37 We were the first and I'm going to say it loud, the first black parenting magazine
01:09:37 --> 01:09:40 in print nationally in this country.
01:09:40 --> 01:09:43 We were the first, and no one's going to know about us if we don't get on social
01:09:43 --> 01:09:45 media right now and have a presence.
01:09:45 --> 01:09:48 And I said, you know what, I'll make a little website, too. And so I did.
01:09:49 --> 01:09:52 Didn't think much of it. Our people, once again, supported us.
01:09:53 --> 01:09:56 We always had the people behind us, the community. We started taking off again.
01:09:56 --> 01:10:00 And it's been history ever since. And we've been online ever since and may go
01:10:00 --> 01:10:02 back to print for print-on-demand shortly.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:09 Yeah. Yeah. So when people ask, is this Black parenting magazine racist,
01:10:09 --> 01:10:14 you made the argument that one magazine for all cultures is not acceptable.
01:10:14 --> 01:10:18 And you kind of touched on that a little bit in your origin story,
01:10:18 --> 01:10:20 but just expound on that a little bit.
01:10:20 --> 01:10:24 Yeah, I mean, we have issues that need to be addressed in our own space.
01:10:25 --> 01:10:28 Everything from how to teach your children to deal with the police when they're
01:10:28 --> 01:10:32 a teen and they're driving, to our hair care for our kids, to our health.
01:10:32 --> 01:10:35 Black maternal health right now is scary.
01:10:35 --> 01:10:38 So these are things that need to be talked about on a regular basis,
01:10:38 --> 01:10:40 as well as we have some general parenting things too.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:43 And we have the Black Parenting Academy right now with parenting classes that
01:10:43 --> 01:10:44 are culturally enriched.
01:10:45 --> 01:10:50 We have a culture. We took the term black and made it from lemons to lemonade.
01:10:50 --> 01:10:54 And so we are a culture now. We're not just a color. And as we know,
01:10:54 --> 01:10:56 we come in all different colors, Pope.
01:10:57 --> 01:11:01 Right? We come from the lightest of light to the blackest of black.
01:11:01 --> 01:11:07 And so all those representations need to be out there. And so we make sure of that.
01:11:07 --> 01:11:10 And so now it's not racist because we have women's magazines for women.
01:11:11 --> 01:11:15 Men aren't supposed to be in there. You know, you have Latina parent magazines
01:11:15 --> 01:11:17 and Latina magazine for that culture.
01:11:17 --> 01:11:19 And they're not in Spanish. They have their own culture.
01:11:20 --> 01:11:24 We have our own culture. And once people accept that it's not about skin color
01:11:24 --> 01:11:28 and it's about who we are, who gets invited to the picnic, because we know what
01:11:28 --> 01:11:30 the picnic is about. And we know what we say during the picnic.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:33 Who made that potato salad? We know what that means. You know,
01:11:33 --> 01:11:38 we know because we all are connected that way. And as anyone that has family
01:11:38 --> 01:11:43 has been through the African diaspora, this is what black the umbrella is.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:45 So we're in the UK, too, you know.
01:11:45 --> 01:11:49 So I'm happy to be black. I'm proud to be black. I'm excited.
01:11:49 --> 01:11:53 Our culture is like none other. We really got it going on. Yeah.
01:11:55 --> 01:11:58 So I was going to make it two questions, but I'll try to combine it.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:06 What has made parenting easier in this day and age and what has made it harder in this day and age?
01:12:06 --> 01:12:09 I'm going to say the internet for both answers.
01:12:09 --> 01:12:11 Both answers. It's a double-edged sword.
01:12:12 --> 01:12:17 And it makes it easier because parents can look up things quickly and find solutions quickly.
01:12:17 --> 01:12:23 We can ask chat GPT, you know. But then again, it also can put our children at risk, right?
01:12:23 --> 01:12:27 It opens the door to the world, the crazy world that we live in that we didn't
01:12:27 --> 01:12:29 even know it was that crazy until the internet came along.
01:12:30 --> 01:12:33 And it exposes our children. We don't always know what they're looking at.
01:12:33 --> 01:12:38 And they know this thing better than we do. So they can find stuff. Even you block stuff.
01:12:38 --> 01:12:41 They're good at it. So we have to watch out for them.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:46 Everything from drugs, which happened a lot, especially during the pandemic,
01:12:46 --> 01:12:50 that they were able to get offline. We lost a lot of children due to fentanyl
01:12:50 --> 01:12:51 poisoning, white and black.
01:12:52 --> 01:12:56 So those kind of things from sexual predators, those kind of scary things,
01:12:56 --> 01:12:59 we have to watch out for. So the Internet.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:07 Yeah. My cousin and I were talking the other day and we were talking about how
01:13:07 --> 01:13:11 our children were different than we were growing up.
01:13:12 --> 01:13:17 Do you feel that way about your children? And if you do, then why do you think that is?
01:13:18 --> 01:13:20 That's funny. I just had this conversation last night with my granddaughter.
01:13:20 --> 01:13:24 I have an 11-year-old granddaughter, my daughter, and I'm Gen X.
01:13:24 --> 01:13:27 And we were just talking about the different generations and how they are different.
01:13:28 --> 01:13:31 Well, first of all, our kids don't get to go out and play. It's not as safe,
01:13:31 --> 01:13:33 right, to just go out and play depending on where you live.
01:13:34 --> 01:13:38 She can't go out. I keep getting notifications on my phone from Citizens App
01:13:38 --> 01:13:41 that there are sexual predators registering all around this area.
01:13:41 --> 01:13:44 So, and this is a nice looking neighborhood. You come by, it looks great.
01:13:45 --> 01:13:50 You know, we, I'm Gen X, we got to play outside and then our parents didn't
01:13:50 --> 01:13:52 know where we were and we were good.
01:13:52 --> 01:13:55 You know, they got the commercial. Remember the commercial? I don't know if
01:13:55 --> 01:13:56 you know. Oh, yeah, I remember.
01:13:57 --> 01:14:00 Every night at 10 o'clock, do you know where your children are?
01:14:00 --> 01:14:01 They really didn't, you know.
01:14:02 --> 01:14:05 So, they were like, she's upstairs, right? Oh, okay. Because we knew to come
01:14:05 --> 01:14:11 in when the streetlights came on, right? So we knew we had to go in the house.
01:14:11 --> 01:14:14 And I would play all day in four block radius every direction.
01:14:15 --> 01:14:19 We had a hide-and-seek game that went on for like a good radius, you know?
01:14:19 --> 01:14:22 So, and we were like big kids. So we were playing hide-and-seek for like four
01:14:22 --> 01:14:24 block radius around us. But that's what's different.
01:14:24 --> 01:14:28 Like they don't get outside. They don't get to exercise. You see them getting plumper, right?
01:14:28 --> 01:14:31 Unless they're in some kind of sports from the time they're little on up.
01:14:31 --> 01:14:34 They don't get all of that. They don't get to drink out the water hose.
01:14:34 --> 01:14:38 They don't get all those experiences that we did. and it made us a lot more
01:14:38 --> 01:14:41 independent and in good ways and bad ways. But...
01:14:42 --> 01:14:45 We have to protect the children more so, I think, today. Yeah.
01:14:45 --> 01:14:51 You know, the thing that we were talking about was how expressive our children
01:14:51 --> 01:14:58 were when they were more, you know, we were just reminiscing about with our parents.
01:14:59 --> 01:15:03 A lot of the things our kids would say or ask questions about,
01:15:03 --> 01:15:06 we didn't even think about that with our parents.
01:15:06 --> 01:15:09 We were like, you know, it was like, you know, the less they know,
01:15:09 --> 01:15:11 the better, you know, the less they know about us.
01:15:12 --> 01:15:15 The better but they know they can get on the internet and
01:15:15 --> 01:15:18 find out yeah yeah i remember my
01:15:18 --> 01:15:21 child they asked me something about
01:15:21 --> 01:15:24 gender fluidity like they were in high
01:15:24 --> 01:15:26 school and i was working for the aclu at the time and i
01:15:26 --> 01:15:29 was like i haven't run across that
01:15:29 --> 01:15:33 one i need i need to do some research and
01:15:33 --> 01:15:36 get back to you on that one uh you know
01:15:36 --> 01:15:39 but it was like but they were having those kind of conversations in high
01:15:39 --> 01:15:41 school and so you know my of course my
01:15:41 --> 01:15:44 dad was like you know what's going on it's
01:15:44 --> 01:15:47 like it's okay they you know
01:15:47 --> 01:15:50 it's like trust me our children
01:15:50 --> 01:15:53 respect you and and your sister everybody else
01:15:53 --> 01:15:56 you know what i'm saying it's like but they just got a different
01:15:56 --> 01:15:59 way of expressing it so yeah i feel like
01:15:59 --> 01:16:02 they're smarter because of it somewhat i mean
01:16:02 --> 01:16:04 i have a five-year-old who's you know looking up things
01:16:04 --> 01:16:07 on wikipedia all the time like constantly on
01:16:07 --> 01:16:12 his ipad where i had child craft encyclopedias all
01:16:12 --> 01:16:19 the books but he's like he can he has the world at his fingertips at five and
01:16:19 --> 01:16:23 i'm like this is amazing he's asking me i've got continents and i'm like okay
01:16:23 --> 01:16:29 this is great yeah i had child craft i had world book too i think i got my world book when I was three.
01:16:30 --> 01:16:37 So I was like, yes, I mean, I was like, that was, you know, that was a whole new world and stuff.
01:16:38 --> 01:16:41 What is the harder assignment for a Black person in America,
01:16:41 --> 01:16:44 being an entrepreneur or being a parent?
01:16:45 --> 01:16:49 Hmm. That's a good question. It's hard to compare the two.
01:16:49 --> 01:16:53 But because I'm both, I'm just going to say being an entrepreneur right now,
01:16:54 --> 01:17:00 because black businesses get less than 1% of any venture capital money in the
01:17:00 --> 01:17:03 United States, less than 1%.
01:17:03 --> 01:17:08 Banks rarely fully fund a Black business, so you get just enough money to fail.
01:17:08 --> 01:17:12 Black businesses come and go so fast because of that.
01:17:12 --> 01:17:16 You'll see one on the internet that's got a great idea, and then next year you
01:17:16 --> 01:17:17 go to their website, it's gone.
01:17:17 --> 01:17:21 It's hard to exist without support. At least with parenting,
01:17:21 --> 01:17:25 hopefully you have some family support that can help you. We have that village.
01:17:26 --> 01:17:29 But we really don't have a village for entrepreneurs unless you join something
01:17:29 --> 01:17:34 like the chamber, And then it's still not as connected as it could be.
01:17:34 --> 01:17:37 Like, you know, you can be an ambassador to the chamber. You can get involved as you want.
01:17:37 --> 01:17:42 But that doesn't mean you want to get what you need necessarily from them.
01:17:43 --> 01:17:46 So I'd be lucky you will, but not everyone's lucky.
01:17:46 --> 01:17:51 So I think my answer would definitely be entrepreneurship because it's hard
01:17:51 --> 01:17:54 out here for PIMP. I don't know, it's hard out here.
01:17:55 --> 01:17:57 I had to say it.
01:17:58 --> 01:18:01 Yeah, but, you know, just to kind of, I remember it was,
01:18:01 --> 01:18:06 I think it was the Fearless Fund when they were trying to, you know,
01:18:06 --> 01:18:13 make sure that Black female entrepreneurs had at least some startup money and
01:18:13 --> 01:18:16 people went to court and shut them down, you know?
01:18:16 --> 01:18:20 Yeah. And they were based out of Atlanta.
01:18:20 --> 01:18:24 So I think you're based out of Atlanta, too.
01:18:24 --> 01:18:28 And a lot of people say, well, Atlanta is different because that's the black
01:18:28 --> 01:18:31 mecca and it's easier for people to get started.
01:18:32 --> 01:18:37 Here than anywhere else. Do you agree with that assessment that it's easier
01:18:37 --> 01:18:39 to start a business in Atlanta compared to other cities?
01:18:39 --> 01:18:44 I think Atlanta is friendly to Black businesses and interested.
01:18:44 --> 01:18:47 And you really do got to get out there and network.
01:18:48 --> 01:18:52 I do. I feel it differently. I started this business when I lived in West Philadelphia
01:18:52 --> 01:18:54 in my house in my kitchen.
01:18:55 --> 01:18:59 And, you know, we won like the Ben Franklin Technology Awards and stuff like that.
01:18:59 --> 01:19:05 But far as feeling connected, like, you know, and welcome to the city,
01:19:05 --> 01:19:09 like, oh, they're doing this thing that's big here. I never felt that. I never felt that.
01:19:09 --> 01:19:13 In Atlanta, I felt it. I didn't feel it when we were in L.A., but I feel it here.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:18 So I think it's more of feeling like you're at home and, you know,
01:19:18 --> 01:19:21 people are interested in what you're doing, want to help.
01:19:21 --> 01:19:23 And I think you get more of that here.
01:19:24 --> 01:19:30 Yeah. All right. So what would you like to see done in public policy to make
01:19:30 --> 01:19:35 parenting easier in America or more specifically the African-American community?
01:19:35 --> 01:19:39 OK, as far as African-American, let me get back to that, because the first thing
01:19:39 --> 01:19:44 I thought about and this will help everyone is that there needs to be subsidies for daycare prices.
01:19:45 --> 01:19:48 You shouldn't be paying more for daycare than you're paying for your car or,
01:19:48 --> 01:19:51 you know, or your rent, depending on how many kids you have.
01:19:51 --> 01:19:56 That is like killing people. I mean, you might as well stay home and open your
01:19:56 --> 01:20:01 own little family daycare center at this point because it's not paying for women to go to work.
01:20:02 --> 01:20:05 And that affects everyone, especially our African-American community.
01:20:05 --> 01:20:09 But I would like to see some policy get into place where they can find some
01:20:09 --> 01:20:14 subsidies for that, not just a child care credit, because that's not enough. It's just not enough.
01:20:15 --> 01:20:19 In America, we have people breaking their neck to try to get a 3% raise when
01:20:19 --> 01:20:24 we know inflation over the past decade has been way more than that every year.
01:20:24 --> 01:20:27 And we can't keep up. We just can't keep up.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:33 I would like to see reparations for coming to play because people say,
01:20:33 --> 01:20:35 oh, that was the past. You didn't know anything about slavery.
01:20:36 --> 01:20:41 Oh, but we do. We do. I knew my great grandmother who died in the 70s who was
01:20:41 --> 01:20:42 born at the end of slavery.
01:20:42 --> 01:20:44 And we know slavery didn't end when they said it was supposed to end.
01:20:45 --> 01:20:49 And she can tell you exactly about picking the crops. And then they came sharecroppers, right?
01:20:50 --> 01:20:53 And got paid pennies. And still, they didn't have anywhere to go.
01:20:54 --> 01:20:57 They didn't have anywhere to go. I knew her. I knew her.
01:20:57 --> 01:21:00 It's in our DNA. day, it's been proven scientifically that that trauma travels
01:21:00 --> 01:21:05 down from generation to generation, and we still aren't benefiting like everyone
01:21:05 --> 01:21:07 else from the hard work our ancestors made.
01:21:07 --> 01:21:15 So no matter what the other people say, I call it, I call them the predictable and programmed people.
01:21:15 --> 01:21:22 Whatever they say, it doesn't matter because every culture that has been done
01:21:22 --> 01:21:28 wrong by in the United States has received reparations and something needs to be done.
01:21:28 --> 01:21:30 I don't care if you let African-Americans go to school for free,
01:21:31 --> 01:21:34 get to help them get houses, plus some money, whatever it is,
01:21:34 --> 01:21:37 whatever it turns out to be, it should have happened a long time ago.
01:21:38 --> 01:21:43 Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you on that. I just, you know.
01:21:44 --> 01:21:48 I always think about the Dave Chappelle skit when we talk about reparations
01:21:48 --> 01:21:53 and, you know, the guy driving the cool cigarette truck, and all that stuff,
01:21:54 --> 01:22:00 you know, but, you know, I think that at the very least there should be,
01:22:00 --> 01:22:05 and I'm glad at least there's some discussions going on, but, you know, and, and,
01:22:06 --> 01:22:12 you know, some ideas and there's some cities like Evanston that's actually taking a step toward it.
01:22:13 --> 01:22:16 But, you know, I'm, I'm with you. I think, you know, when you see those pictures
01:22:16 --> 01:22:19 of all those black men building the U.S.
01:22:19 --> 01:22:27 Capitol and we can't get the time of day to even discuss paying us back for
01:22:27 --> 01:22:30 that free labor, it's kind of aggravating.
01:22:30 --> 01:22:36 And I hope that in our lifetime, we'll see something move on that direction.
01:22:37 --> 01:22:41 So my final question to you is, what does freedom look like to you?
01:22:42 --> 01:22:46 Freedom is, number one, important to me. I tell everybody that nothing,
01:22:46 --> 01:22:51 I mean, nothing besides my health is more important than freedom to be able
01:22:51 --> 01:22:53 to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:56 And I'm not talking about anything corrupt or bad, but just to be able to go
01:22:56 --> 01:23:00 where I want to go without people judging me, do whatever it is that I want
01:23:00 --> 01:23:06 to do and given a fair chance to do it without judging me because I have extra melanin in my skin.
01:23:07 --> 01:23:10 That makes no sense. It makes no sense whatsoever. actually
01:23:10 --> 01:23:14 the extra melanin in our skin is is better for
01:23:14 --> 01:23:17 us and everyone else if they had it you know it keeps us
01:23:17 --> 01:23:20 healthy so freedom looks
01:23:20 --> 01:23:22 like to me just being able to be who I am wherever
01:23:22 --> 01:23:31 space I'm in without any judgment or and that's free that's free and and make
01:23:31 --> 01:23:33 sure we just have a chance that's all we ever ask for because you give us a
01:23:33 --> 01:23:37 chance we usually excel right you just got it we just need that opportunity
01:23:37 --> 01:23:40 look all the different sports we weren't allowed there once we got in them,
01:23:40 --> 01:23:41 oh God, we just took over.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:44 Because we are not deficient.
01:23:44 --> 01:23:50 We are not, I want to say it the wrong way, but we are not less than,
01:23:51 --> 01:23:53 as people would like us to believe.
01:23:53 --> 01:23:58 We know we have great genes. We know we can do the best things.
01:23:58 --> 01:23:59 We know we have great thoughts.
01:23:59 --> 01:24:03 The only reason that we were held back was because for so long,
01:24:04 --> 01:24:09 my ancestors and your ancestors were not allowed to even pick up a book and read or learn.
01:24:10 --> 01:24:16 And it was against the law. They did everything to keep us from progressing
01:24:16 --> 01:24:19 because they knew once we found out and once we had that knowledge,
01:24:20 --> 01:24:25 oh baby, we are going to take off and possibly leave them behind,
01:24:25 --> 01:24:30 which is why we're in the space we are right now where they are so worried that
01:24:30 --> 01:24:35 they're going to be the minorities and we will be the majorities with all the
01:24:35 --> 01:24:36 black and brown people as a collective.
01:24:37 --> 01:24:43 Yeah, that, you know, I tell people the story when I, my freshman year in high school,
01:24:43 --> 01:24:51 my biology teacher told me that my eye color and my skin color and my hair was
01:24:51 --> 01:24:55 a dominant gene and all the other stuff was recessive genes.
01:24:55 --> 01:24:59 I was like, oh, yeah, you can't tell me anything at this point now, you know.
01:25:00 --> 01:25:04 So that's why, like you said, knowledge is power. Ask yourself.
01:25:04 --> 01:25:09 I'm just going to comment on that because ask yourself. What in the natural
01:25:09 --> 01:25:11 world that's dominant is weak?
01:25:12 --> 01:25:17 Nothing. If it's dominant, it's powerful. It's strong. Right.
01:25:17 --> 01:25:19 I want to go say another word, but it's strong.
01:25:19 --> 01:25:22 That's right. That's right. Yeah. You know,
01:25:23 --> 01:25:31 but I stole that question from you were you were talking to some group about
01:25:31 --> 01:25:36 explaining that to children and trying to get children to answer that question.
01:25:36 --> 01:25:41 I know you've written some books, so kind of talk about as we close out,
01:25:41 --> 01:25:46 you know, what books are out there that you've written and, you know,
01:25:46 --> 01:25:48 how can people get a copy of those books?
01:25:48 --> 01:25:52 How can people access successful Black parenting?
01:25:52 --> 01:25:56 And if people want to reach out to you, how they can get in touch with you?
01:25:56 --> 01:25:58 Sure. I mean, I have a plethora of books.
01:25:59 --> 01:26:03 The one I'm most proud of is a board book for toddlers, and it teaches toddlers
01:26:03 --> 01:26:05 how to blow their nose because I'm an early childhood specialist,
01:26:06 --> 01:26:09 right? So the hardest thing is to teach a toddler how to blow their nose.
01:26:09 --> 01:26:14 And it's great for all races because I've had people who I didn't expect to have it, had it.
01:26:14 --> 01:26:18 And they just are happy about it. And they're like, this is the best book.
01:26:18 --> 01:26:23 It won the Mom's Choice Gold Seal Award. And it's called Miles Stuffy Nose.
01:26:23 --> 01:26:27 And it's available, all my books are available on Amazon. I also have educational
01:26:27 --> 01:26:31 books for parents. Everything from How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex.
01:26:31 --> 01:26:36 It's their e-book, softback books, paperback, I should say. all on available
01:26:36 --> 01:26:38 on Amazon. It's just the easiest platform.
01:26:38 --> 01:26:40 I'm not crazy about it, but it is Amazon.
01:26:41 --> 01:26:46 And I have another book called Big Kid for when you're feeling small in a big, big world for kids.
01:26:46 --> 01:26:50 The kids relate to it more than the parents do. So I found that out because
01:26:50 --> 01:26:52 I was looking at it from a child's perspective.
01:26:52 --> 01:26:57 And I took it from how we empower ourselves to do public speaking.
01:26:57 --> 01:27:00 They tell you to stand big, you know, like superhero pose.
01:27:00 --> 01:27:05 And kids love big things, trains, planes, everything. So I made sure I took
01:27:05 --> 01:27:10 everything big from dinosaurs on, put it in this book to help them build themselves
01:27:10 --> 01:27:13 up so they felt bigger than what they are. And then at the end,
01:27:13 --> 01:27:14 it says, I'm a big, big kid.
01:27:15 --> 01:27:18 And it all came from a song my daughter was singing to my granddaughter that
01:27:18 --> 01:27:21 she made up. And I recorded it. And I said, this should be a book.
01:27:21 --> 01:27:22 This is so powerful for her.
01:27:23 --> 01:27:26 So that came about that. You know, if you just look at my name,
01:27:26 --> 01:27:29 Janice Robinson Celeste on Amazon, you can find all my books.
01:27:29 --> 01:27:30 And I have more coming out.
01:27:30 --> 01:27:33 I'm doing one right now on how to potty train your child.
01:27:33 --> 01:27:38 So there's all kinds of things that will be coming out from me for the next
01:27:38 --> 01:27:42 six months. I'm putting out a new softback book pretty much every month now.
01:27:43 --> 01:27:46 I didn't say softback, but paperback. Like, but either way, however you want
01:27:46 --> 01:27:47 it, tomatoes, tomato. Yeah.
01:27:48 --> 01:27:53 So how can people reach you directly if they want you to come speak and all that stuff?
01:27:53 --> 01:27:57 The best way is through our website at SuccessfulBlackParenting.com.
01:27:57 --> 01:27:59 You can go in there as a contact form.
01:27:59 --> 01:28:04 We're also on all social media as SuccessfulBlackParenting. So Instagram,
01:28:04 --> 01:28:06 we're most active, have our most followers.
01:28:06 --> 01:28:08 We just started on TikTok not long ago.
01:28:09 --> 01:28:14 And we are also on Facebook. You can just type in SuccessfulBlackParenting there.
01:28:14 --> 01:28:17 We ask people to like and follow and engage.
01:28:17 --> 01:28:22 If you engage with us, it helps to keep us around for longer because our advertisers are looking at that.
01:28:23 --> 01:28:27 Even if you don't buy anything, click on the ads on our website, like, comment.
01:28:27 --> 01:28:31 When you do that, you don't know how much you're helping a black business.
01:28:31 --> 01:28:34 Just engaging and being active.
01:28:34 --> 01:28:36 So I appreciate it if you do that.
01:28:37 --> 01:28:42 All right. Well, Janice Robinson Celeste, it's been an honor to talk to you
01:28:42 --> 01:28:46 and to finally get to meet you. I've followed you on LinkedIn.
01:28:47 --> 01:28:51 And I said, I got to get this sister on the podcast.
01:28:51 --> 01:28:56 And, you know, because, you know, sometimes people don't understand.
01:28:56 --> 01:28:59 But it's a basic thing. Somebody that's been an elected official.
01:28:59 --> 01:29:08 I try to explain to people that everything that we do in elected positions impacts people.
01:29:08 --> 01:29:12 And, you know, one of the bills I was proud to co-sponsor because I was real
01:29:12 --> 01:29:17 active in the adoption community. I was on a board in Mississippi doing that.
01:29:17 --> 01:29:22 And, you know, one of the bills I co-sponsored was to give a tax exemption to
01:29:22 --> 01:29:26 parents that wanted to adopt children from other countries.
01:29:28 --> 01:29:34 And, you know, it's like, but everything that happens, whether it's in the state
01:29:34 --> 01:29:36 capitol, city hall, the U.S.
01:29:36 --> 01:29:40 Capitol, it impacts what we do every day.
01:29:40 --> 01:29:45 And there are a lot of legislation, there's a lot of legislation that goes through that impacts parents.
01:29:46 --> 01:29:50 And so, you know, when you accept an invitation, I said, OK,
01:29:50 --> 01:29:52 I'm going to have a parenting expert on.
01:29:53 --> 01:29:59 And I'm glad that you were able to express some of the important issues that need to be addressed.
01:30:00 --> 01:30:03 And again, I'm just honored to have you on. I appreciate it.
01:30:04 --> 01:30:06 Thank you. It's my pleasure to be on and speaking with you.
01:30:06 --> 01:30:09 All right, guys. And we're going to catch you all on the other side.
01:30:09 --> 01:30:20 Music.
01:30:21 --> 01:30:28 All right, and we are back. So I want to thank Nikema Levy-Armstrong and Janice
01:30:28 --> 01:30:30 Robinson-Celeste for coming on.
01:30:31 --> 01:30:36 Greatly appreciate those sisters taking the time out to talk to you all,
01:30:36 --> 01:30:38 the listeners, about what they're doing.
01:30:38 --> 01:30:44 And, you know, just the importance, again, with Miss Nikema,
01:30:44 --> 01:30:49 you know, just, you know, the commitment that she has made.
01:30:49 --> 01:30:55 Not only to improve the community through her activism, but also in building
01:30:55 --> 01:30:58 leadership for our future.
01:30:58 --> 01:31:04 She is a dynamic person, and as you can tell by the interview,
01:31:04 --> 01:31:06 very, very humble about it.
01:31:07 --> 01:31:14 And, you know, as guys would say in sports, I'm glad that she's on our team.
01:31:16 --> 01:31:22 And then Janice Robinson Celeste, you know, just the due diligence to stay
01:31:22 --> 01:31:28 with something that she believed in and make it work with successful Black Parenting Magazine.
01:31:30 --> 01:31:37 And, you know, her journey in making that happen and just her natural expertise
01:31:37 --> 01:31:44 that she is willing to share in that format to help young mothers and fathers become better parents,
01:31:44 --> 01:31:47 especially in the Black community. That is always needed.
01:31:48 --> 01:31:52 It's always good to have somebody looking out for us.
01:31:53 --> 01:31:59 And as I said during the interview, It's like parenting is one of the most important
01:31:59 --> 01:32:03 public policy issues that come before government.
01:32:03 --> 01:32:09 There are bills every year that impact how we raise our children.
01:32:09 --> 01:32:12 And we need to be sensitive to that and we need to pay attention to that.
01:32:13 --> 01:32:15 It's like nothing is detached from politics.
01:32:16 --> 01:32:20 Let me make that clear. Nothing is detached from politics.
01:32:20 --> 01:32:25 Politics impacts every aspect of our lives. the food we eat,
01:32:25 --> 01:32:29 the schools we go to, how we raise our kids, and then, of course,
01:32:29 --> 01:32:33 the justice system where System of Kima works. Everything.
01:32:34 --> 01:32:43 So that's why, you know, a political podcast is as important,
01:32:43 --> 01:32:46 if not more important, than any other podcast that's out there.
01:32:46 --> 01:32:51 And I'm honored and privileged to be able to bring that to you.
01:32:51 --> 01:32:55 Now, I do want to close out. We kind of touched on a little bit when I talked with...
01:32:57 --> 01:33:01 And the chemo about what happened in Memphis.
01:33:02 --> 01:33:09 And, you know, I'm really, like I said, I'm really, really disheartened by that decision.
01:33:09 --> 01:33:14 You know, reading some of the news reports, you know, they're kind of implying
01:33:14 --> 01:33:18 that because, you know, the election happened and.
01:33:19 --> 01:33:24 Attitudes may have soured or whatever toward Black Lives Matter or whatever
01:33:24 --> 01:33:29 the case may be, You know, black activism as far as police brutality and all
01:33:29 --> 01:33:32 that, that that could have impacted the decision. I don't know.
01:33:32 --> 01:33:33 I wasn't in the courtroom.
01:33:34 --> 01:33:40 I just always am amazed that when we catch police officers doing something on
01:33:40 --> 01:33:43 video, I mean, it's Rodney King.
01:33:43 --> 01:33:48 And for them to not get anything, that's that's totally disheartening.
01:33:48 --> 01:33:54 You know, at least in the Memphis case, you know, there's federal charges that
01:33:54 --> 01:33:55 these guys had to answer to.
01:33:55 --> 01:34:01 But, you know, I just can't understand how you can witness that,
01:34:01 --> 01:34:06 you know, regardless of the man fleeing.
01:34:07 --> 01:34:12 Right. You know, law enforcement, we're trained that it's like,
01:34:12 --> 01:34:15 you know, once we apprehend them, that's it.
01:34:16 --> 01:34:20 You know, if they resist, we have a right to defend ourselves.
01:34:20 --> 01:34:27 But once that that suspect is contained and controlled, right,
01:34:27 --> 01:34:30 primarily in handcuffs, that's it. It's over with.
01:34:31 --> 01:34:34 At that point, we get them to the station, get them booked in,
01:34:35 --> 01:34:39 get them to the jail and let the court system take over from that point on.
01:34:39 --> 01:34:46 We are not Judge Dredd. We are not, you know, on the field executioners of the law.
01:34:48 --> 01:34:51 We enforce it, but we were not executioners.
01:34:53 --> 01:34:57 And, you know, you got that situation happening.
01:34:58 --> 01:35:02 And Jen, literally just like a day before or two days before,
01:35:02 --> 01:35:11 you had the tragic situation in Cincinnati where a distraught father allegedly
01:35:11 --> 01:35:18 ran over a police officer and killed him because his son was killed by the police the day before.
01:35:19 --> 01:35:24 Right. and there's questions about whether the young man was armed or not.
01:35:24 --> 01:35:28 He was one of four suspects involved in a car theft.
01:35:29 --> 01:35:35 And, yeah, you know, it's just, it's tough, you know.
01:35:36 --> 01:35:42 Having been on that side, dealing with law enforcement, having been an elected
01:35:42 --> 01:35:49 official, having worked for the ACLU, I can honestly say I've seen all sides of the issue.
01:35:49 --> 01:35:55 And I have advocated for the right things on either side of the issue.
01:35:56 --> 01:36:01 And when we were wrong on the ACLU side, we squashed that.
01:36:02 --> 01:36:09 When you're wrong on the law enforcement side, you voice your opinion and you let it be known.
01:36:11 --> 01:36:17 And especially during training, because that's when you're supposed to get all the bad habits out.
01:36:18 --> 01:36:21 The instructors are supposed to pick up on things and say, no,
01:36:21 --> 01:36:22 no, that's not how we do that.
01:36:22 --> 01:36:26 You need to get yourself out of that situation. We're going to put you in stressful
01:36:26 --> 01:36:32 situations, but our goal is to teach you how to handle that stress without causing
01:36:32 --> 01:36:34 unnecessary harm, right?
01:36:35 --> 01:36:39 You're trained in weapons. You're trained how to use those weapons properly.
01:36:39 --> 01:36:43 You're trained how to handle situations properly.
01:36:44 --> 01:36:49 And they're going to put you in stressful situations. so they can feel confident
01:36:49 --> 01:36:52 that when you get out there that you're going to follow that training.
01:36:53 --> 01:36:56 And what we saw in Memphis didn't happen.
01:36:58 --> 01:37:01 The jury's still out on what happened in Cincinnati, whether it was justified or not.
01:37:02 --> 01:37:07 All things tendency-wise, it looks like they're going to rule that justifiable
01:37:07 --> 01:37:12 homicide in the case with Mr. Hinton's child.
01:37:14 --> 01:37:19 But, you know, I mean, we're living in a very, very perilous time.
01:37:21 --> 01:37:25 And no matter how you really feel about what Mr.
01:37:25 --> 01:37:29 Hinton did, for those of y'all in law enforcement, I want you to understand,
01:37:29 --> 01:37:34 this is a real thing that we have to deal with.
01:37:34 --> 01:37:39 And we may not know when we'll be the target, right?
01:37:41 --> 01:37:44 And I say that even though I'm not active in law enforcement anymore.
01:37:44 --> 01:37:51 I mean, I'm still connected, right? I still have friends that are doing this kind of work.
01:37:53 --> 01:38:00 And so, you know, and the majority of the people that are living in this society
01:38:00 --> 01:38:02 are good and decent people.
01:38:03 --> 01:38:05 But everybody has a breaking point.
01:38:06 --> 01:38:12 And it seems like in our politics and in all aspects of our lives,
01:38:12 --> 01:38:16 it seems like there are people that are hell bent on pushing folks to that breaking point.
01:38:18 --> 01:38:27 And although there's nothing really I can do, all I can attempt to do is encourage
01:38:27 --> 01:38:31 people to stop engaging in that behavior.
01:38:31 --> 01:38:39 As long as X is out there, there's got to be a voice for those people.
01:38:42 --> 01:38:45 As long as we have the internet, as Ms.
01:38:45 --> 01:38:53 Janice pointed out, we're just going to have to be careful about what we and
01:38:53 --> 01:38:54 our children are exposed to.
01:38:55 --> 01:39:01 That's just where we are. And I really hope that people would stop or people
01:39:01 --> 01:39:08 would, or at least the number of people doing bad behavior and our acting badly would decrease.
01:39:10 --> 01:39:19 But, you know, when we have leaders acting that way, it's kind of hard for other
01:39:19 --> 01:39:22 citizens not to behave or use that example, right?
01:39:23 --> 01:39:26 I mean, it's even to the point now where it's like we want to elect people that
01:39:26 --> 01:39:29 act like that and vigorously defend that.
01:39:29 --> 01:39:40 So, but we're in a perilous time, and I'm of a faith practice where whatever happens,
01:39:40 --> 01:39:45 you know, whatever you do, you'll have to be accountable for it.
01:39:45 --> 01:39:55 And even though in the case in Memphis, Tyre Nichols, justice was not totally served for them.
01:39:56 --> 01:40:02 They went through the process and, you know, the defendants got the verdict
01:40:02 --> 01:40:06 they wanted, which is the argument for due process, right?
01:40:07 --> 01:40:12 You know, what we're dealing with with these immigrants that are being deported
01:40:12 --> 01:40:15 without due process, give them a chance to prove it. You're saying that they're
01:40:15 --> 01:40:18 members of a gang. You're saying that they beat their wives.
01:40:19 --> 01:40:24 Let them do it in court and see what a judge or a jury would say.
01:40:24 --> 01:40:28 In immigration issues, it's the judge, right?
01:40:29 --> 01:40:33 So, you know, due process did happen.
01:40:34 --> 01:40:40 I'm not happy with the outcome, but, you know, I just know that when you do
01:40:40 --> 01:40:44 something like that, you're going to pay for it one way or the other.
01:40:45 --> 01:40:53 And so that's all we can do at this point and just try to encourage people to do better,
01:40:53 --> 01:41:00 to behave better, and to get and elect leaders who will demand that kind of
01:41:00 --> 01:41:03 accountability, not only in law enforcement, but the community at large.
01:41:04 --> 01:41:06 It's time to set better examples.
01:41:06 --> 01:41:10 You know, banging a gavel 50 times is not leadership.
01:41:11 --> 01:41:17 You know, cussing out constituents that have legitimate concerns or demeaning
01:41:17 --> 01:41:22 them, whether you're on an elevator or a town hall meeting, that's not leadership.
01:41:23 --> 01:41:27 This country needs leadership, and I've made this appeal, and I continue to make it.
01:41:27 --> 01:41:31 We need American leaders, and American leaders respect their constituents,
01:41:31 --> 01:41:35 regardless of whether they agree with us or not.
01:41:37 --> 01:41:45 Leaders respect people's opinions. And, you know, we just got to get back to that.
01:41:46 --> 01:41:50 Human life is valuable. It means something.
01:41:51 --> 01:41:59 And no matter what role we play on this planet, we have to carry that mindset with us.
01:42:00 --> 01:42:06 So that's all I got, guys. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.
01:42:06 --> 01:42:54 Music.