How America Works Featuring Will Cooper

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_03]: I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast. If you like what you're hearing,

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_03]: then I need you to do a few things. First, I need subscribers. I'm on Patreon at patreon.com

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_03]: slash amomentwitherikfleming. Your subscription allows an independent podcaster like me the

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_03]: truth to power and to expand and improve the show. Second, leave a five-star review for

[00:00:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the podcast on the streaming service you listen to. That will help the podcast tremendously.

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_03]: Third, go to the website momenterik.com. There you can subscribe to the podcast,

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[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_03]: podcast on your social media platforms because it is time to make this moment a movement.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.

[00:01:53] [SPEAKER_03]: And now I have fully recovered from the convention. It's time to get on with business as usual,

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and what better way to get back to business usual is to have a familiar voice on the program.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_03]: My good friend, Will Cooper, is coming on to talk about some stuff politically, but more

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_03]: importantly he's written a new book, How America Works and Why It Doesn't. And anytime that

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_03]: this brother writes a book, I'm going to try to get him on the podcast. I think he's one

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: of the best voices, maybe one of the most underrated political voices out there

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_03]: as far as observation and writing and all that. So it's always an honor to have him on.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: And I look forward to our discussion. But before we do any of that,

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: uh, it's time for a moment of news with Grace G.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Eric. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. ended his presidential campaign and endorsed Donald Trump.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Democrats sued Georgia's state election board over new measures they claim could disrupt

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: the election certification process. U.S. special counsel Jack Smith urged an appeals court to

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_00]: revive the criminal case against Donald Trump for keeping classified documents after a lower

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: court dismissed it. Donald Trump faces a new federal indictment related to his efforts to

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00]: overturn the 2020 election, with prosecutors focusing on his actions as a political candidate.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Two members of Donald Trump's campaign staff were involved in an altercation with an

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Arlington National Cemetery official over filming during a wreath-laying ceremony.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Multiple U.S. Secret Service agents have been placed on leave following the assassination attempt

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: on former President Donald Trump in Pennsylvania. A second, former Memphis police officer pled

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00]: guilty to federal charges related to the beating death of Tyree Nichols. A federal judge

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: dismissed part of the most serious charge against two former Louisville officers, accused

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00]: of falsifying a search warrant leading to Breonna Taylor's death. A former Florida

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_00]: deputy was charged with manslaughter for the shooting death of Roger Forsten.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Steve Bannon will face trial in New York on fraud charges related to fundraising for Trump's

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: border wall. A U.S. appeals court upheld Maryland's handgun licensing law, supporting

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: its validity despite an earlier Supreme Court decision expanding gun rights. A federal appeals

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: court ruled against Missouri's law that tried to invalidate several federal gun laws.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: U.S. consumer confidence hit a six-month high in August, and the Federal Housing

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Finance Agency reported a slight dip in single-family home prices in June.

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_00]: I am Grace G., and this has been A Moment of News.

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_03]: All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news, and it's good to have you back.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Now it is time for my friend, Will Cooper. William Cooper is an attorney, national columnist,

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and award-winning author. His last two books are Stress Test, How Donald Trump Threatens

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_03]: American Democracy, and his new book, How America Works and Why It Doesn't. Will's

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: commentary has been featured in The Wall Street Journal, San Francisco Chronicle,

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: Baltimore Sun, New York Daily News, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, USA Today, New York Times, CNN,

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Washington Post, Chicago Sun-Times, Huffington Post, and the Dallas Morning News.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Publishers Weekly calls his writings about American politics a compelling rallying cry

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_03]: for democratic institutions under threat in America. Ladies and gentlemen, it is my

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03]: distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest again on this podcast, Will Cooper.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_03]: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, an old friend of the program has come back. Will

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Cooper, how you doing? Will, you doing good?

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Doing great, Eric. Great to be back. It's been too long. I feel like it's been even over a year,

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_03]: so I'm glad to be here. Well, it gave you time to write this new book,

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: America Works and Why It Doesn't. And last time you were on, you had written a book. And so

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to get you on to talk about this. And I always appreciate your enthusiasm for

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_03]: coming on the show. So I've got two different quotes I'm going to run by you. The first one

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: is, the greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation,

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but rather her ability to repair her faults. What does that quote mean to you, especially

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: in the context of today? Well, that is how I closed the book with that quote,

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_01]: talking about that quote. That's from Alexis de Tocqueville. It's a very, very important

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_01]: quote to me when it comes to American politics and our history. I think our history is one of

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: great progress and then also steps backward. A lot of great things happened and the trend

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: lines move up. It's never linear, and there's always lots of good and bad together.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But our history is one of moving forward and taking a step back and then moving forward again

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: from a very high level perspective. And in my view, this century, the 21st century,

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_01]: we're in a decline. Our overall approach to not everything, not everything's bad.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's always a mix of good and bad, but our overall trend line as a political unit,

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_01]: as a polity is moving backwards this century. And so the key question for me with that quote

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: is, is that still true? Is it still true that we have this strain in our polity of repairing

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_01]: our faults and getting better and overcoming them? Or alternatively, is this just the beginning

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: of a long decline and we won't go back to where we were and we won't continue to move forward

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: over the long arc of history? So it's a very, very important quote for me. And I

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: appreciate you coming right out with it. Well, you know, Tocqueville, it was just

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_03]: his history, the concept of somebody from another country just coming. And at the time frame,

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03]: America was relatively young at that point. And coming from France, which was a major ally

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_03]: in the United States securing its independence, to just commit to come and I just want to see

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_03]: what this America is about. Right? I just want to see what's going on. And it's amazing that

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: somebody nearly 250 years ago nailed the essence of what America is about. So,

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_03]: but usually, you know, great observation and great literature that usually stands to test the

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_03]: time. But there's another quote I wanted to from the book that I saved up and it says,

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_03]: William Cooper is one of the most insightful writers covering politics in America today.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: It has been a privilege to have him as a guest on my podcast and I'm grateful someone like William

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_03]: is chronicling these volatile times. It sounds like a pretty smart dude that wrote that.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_01]: What's your take on that quote? The only man standing above the Tocqueville

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: and the founding fathers in terms of their genius and insight into our system is the

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: man who uttered that quote. Mr. Eric Fleming. Well, let me read you a third quote that you

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_01]: might not have seen. Okay. And this is from the acknowledgments. If you haven't seen it,

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: quote, Eric Fleming, moreover, doesn't just host the best political podcast in the world.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: He's also a deeply intelligent and wise thinker about America and why it isn't working. End quote.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you saw that, but that's there too. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was trying not to do

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_03]: too much saying self-engranded, but, uh, I greatly appreciate that. But I hold you in

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_03]: higher esteem than me because you, you are truly an observer, right? And it's like,

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm in the fray. I've been in the fray. I've been an elected official when I was meeting

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_03]: people at the convention and people would ask me, well, why did you start a political podcast?

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_03]: You know, all that stuff. And when I go through my background, they're looking at me like,

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_03]: dude, who, where have you been? Who are you? You know what I'm saying? I mean, other people

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I met, um, like for example, Andrew Gillum. And I don't know if that name sounds familiar

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_03]: to you, but that was the gentleman that ran against the Santas the first time and

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_03]: should have beat him. Uh, in, in the Florida gubernatorial race. And, you know, uh,

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I knew about him, but he didn't really know about me. So when we talked and I

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: talked to him about my background, all that, he was just like, he didn't want to leave,

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_03]: you know what I'm saying? It was like, he wanted to just kind of pick my brain and,

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and, uh, you know, and just, and just chop, chop it up. And that's usually what happens. And

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_03]: that's why I felt I needed to do this show was to bring that kind of perspective to

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_03]: the discussion. Somebody has actually been in the middle of it. And, uh, yeah, I don't know

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_03]: if, if I could have made it in this particular time. Cause when I explained to people, I've,

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I've been out of politics as far as elected office for like 20 some years. Um, so, you know,

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_03]: it was a, that's a long time in politics and, and you address a lot of that in the book,

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_03]: as far as the concepts and all that, but before we get into the book,

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to get your takeaways about the convention. I watched the Republican convention

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and it actually was at the Democratic convention. I'm biased. I think the

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Democratic convention was phenomenal. I think it did everything it was supposed to do.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_03]: And looking at the poll numbers, it definitely did what it set out to accomplish because

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_03]: going into the Democratic convention, it was, it was still kind of an unknown vice president

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Harris, even though she's been a national figure was still kind of a mystery.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And the poll numbers reflected that now we're seeing polls. Even Fox news is showing that

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_03]: she's ahead not only in the national polling, but in the, in the, in some key swing states

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: as an outside observer, what was your take on the two conventions?

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I, I thought two, two main thoughts. First one is I thought the Democratic convention was

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_01]: extremely well done. Very effective. I really enjoyed it. I thought numerous speeches were

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_01]: fantastic. And it was just very well produced and, and effective. Like you said, it was,

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_01]: it was just effective. It achieved its goals. I thought there were, I didn't think the

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Republican convention was as effective, but I also, I thought they did a good job. I mean,

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was, it was the organization behind it in general was pretty good.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I certainly disagreed with more of the substance, but it wasn't, it wasn't,

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, some train wreck like, you know, some might've, might've expected Trump's speech was

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: a little out there, but it would have been surprising if it wasn't. Whereas Kamala was,

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, she's, she's showing that she actually is a good candidate, you know, after her

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: earlier presidential campaign four years ago where she did not perform very well. She's

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: showing that, you know, she's able to run a really good campaign. I think that was

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: exemplified by her speech. So, so those were my takeaways this year. And then, but then I

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_01]: always go back with conventions to a lesson I learned eight years ago that, that will stick

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_01]: with me. I remember in 2016, the Republican convention really was, I just thought it was

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_01]: a total train wreck. It was completely disorganized. It was weird. It wasn't well

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: done at all. They actually improved a lot. I felt like this year and the Democrats convention

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in 2016 was fantastic. Very well done. Michelle Obama gave an incredible speech and

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Hillary did a good job. And it was, it was just like this beautifully orchestrated

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: convention. And the contrast between the two then was enormous. And then we saw the results.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So I always feel, you know, conventions are kind of like pre-season. I'm a big football fan. I

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: think you might be a football fan too. They kind of remind me of preseason football where

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody ooze and ahs as things happen. But then when it's week 17 and you look back at

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: preseason, it didn't mean anywhere near as much as you thought. So I temper my judgments

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: with that lesson. Yeah. And you know, the whole concept of conventions is

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_03]: each party is supposed to present their best face. They're supposed to throw out their platform.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_03]: These are the issues. I think 2016 was the, for the Republicans was this was the first Trump one.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_03]: And nobody, not even in the Republican side with all the people that were running

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and the history of all those people that were running. I mean, Rubio, you had a Bush,

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you had the, you know, U.S. senators running, Cruz, Graham, all these folks. It was like for

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Trump to emerge out of that and the way that he did it,

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, the convention was just, they were just trying to figure out what exactly is our

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_03]: identity. And it was very evident whereas the Democrats, the Democrats knew from day one,

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: once Joe Biden said as a sitting vice president, yeah, I'm not going to run

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_03]: and open the door for Hillary. Then it was like, you know, they had time to cater it to what

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Hillary Clinton wanted. What I always say about Hillary Clinton, and this is out of respect for

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_03]: all the things that she has achieved. Hillary Clinton, when you look at it historically,

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_03]: objectively, was probably one of the worst presidential candidates ever to run.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Because in 2008, she was supposed to win and Barack Obama beat her in the primary.

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_03]: And 2016, she got the nomination and she was supposed to dog walk this misogynist,

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_03]: crazy real estate kai koon from New York. And she didn't. And those were, to me,

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there was some dynamic dynamics in the demographic. I mean, 53% of her demographic

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_03]: didn't vote for her. That's a major flaw to me. And that's even a bigger flaw than Al Gore

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_03]: not winning Tennessee, right when he ran. But, you know, but just the fact that

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_03]: there were things that she didn't do as a candidate. Like she didn't show up in

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_03]: Michigan when that was like one of the biggest stories in America at that time.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_03]: And that was a city that would have gravitated to her, right? So I mean, you know, just stuff

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_03]: like that, that makes me critical of her. But watching what happened live and in person

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_03]: in Chicago, and watching what happened with the Republicans, which you have to give the

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_03]: credit because literally two days before the convention convened, they almost didn't have a

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: candidate. That kid gets lucky, you know, in his mindset, if he's more accurate,

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Donald Trump is not showing up on Monday. So, you know, for the Republicans to even pull that

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_03]: off less than 48 hours after that event, and still reflect, you know, what that candidate wanted,

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, was has to be respected, regardless of how you feel about their platform and all

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_03]: that kind of stuff. But yeah, the Democrats, the energy, all that stuff, I just felt

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that they did exactly what they had to do in the situation they were in. And it was almost like

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Kamala had been running for a whole year, as opposed to literally like weeks before that

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_01]: convention. Yeah, it's been very impressive to see how well they're doing, how quickly.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know for sure before I fully admit I did not know, you know, two weeks before

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Biden resigned, when we were all speculating. I didn't know, okay, if Kamala gets it,

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_01]: what will happen? Will it be good? Will it be bad? I didn't, how will that go?

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of their ability to have an effective campaign and do it quickly and a

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_01]: really good convention and have, you know, just do a good job with the operation of the

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: I think they had it set up for Biden, because their whole mission was to put Biden in the

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_03]: best light possible. And then you switch up and it's like, oh, well, we got an even

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: more dynamic candidate than what we were gearing for. So, you know, this ought to

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_03]: amp it up even more. And that's exactly what happened. Real quick, you've been around her,

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_03]: I guess. I don't know if you were there. Well, you know, were you there when she was like a

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_03]: local elected official, like as the DA and the attorney general and all that?

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't want to overstate it. But I was so she was the district attorney of San

[00:22:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Francisco when I was in law school and I just graduated. So I knew her then, I had a sense

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01]: of who she was then. She then became California attorney general while I was a young lawyer.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: As a young lawyer, my head was down in my files more than in the newspaper. Thankfully,

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: things have improved on that front dramatically for me. But I was from

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01]: San Francisco and I was in law school. I was in law school. I was in law school.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I was interviewing at law firms to go to a new firm. And Kamala had just announced that she

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_01]: was or just won her U.S. Senate seat. So I was bouncing around San Francisco where she lives

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and I walk in one day for an interview at this law firm and I sit down and the head lawyer of the

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_01]: office is going to meet with me and he walks in and it's Doug. So I sat down with who at the

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: time, great guy. We had an hour long conversation, super personable, super smart. He was the

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_01]: head of the office at a really good firm. And at the time I thought, wow, this is really

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: cool. I'm interviewing here with the husband of a senator and little did I know he'd soon be

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: the husband of a vice president and now on the cusp of being the husband of the president.

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So I did get a first-hand experience with him as a lawyer and he's a really, really nice,

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: smart personable guy. So it was a fun interview.

[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but he didn't hire you so maybe he might not have a good eye for talent but that's a whole

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_03]: another conversation for another day. I won't hold that against him if you want.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Don't blame me and not him. How's that?

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_03]: All right, so there's something I want to get off my chest before we get to the book

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_03]: real quick and that's this deal with the Arlington National Cemetery. I don't know if

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: you've picked up on it or not but supposedly a Gold Star family invited Donald Trump to show up

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_03]: at the cemetery for the, I guess it's the three-year anniversary of the withdrawal

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_03]: from Afghanistan. And so they decided to have a memorial service there and one of the families

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_03]: invited Donald Trump to come as their guest. And that could have been pretty cool, pretty

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_03]: solemn except it's Donald Trump and so chaos followed. And next thing you know we've got

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: staffers fighting employees at the cemetery and videos are taken and you got a governor using

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the fundraising speech and the rules clearly say you're not supposed to be doing political

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_03]: stuff at Arlington National Cemetery. And then Trump in an interview last night

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03]: said, oh I didn't know the rules. What's your take on that? Because I'm just like

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah, what's your take on it? Calm me down a little bit.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_01]: It's Trump being Trump. I mean he is who he is. We know exactly who he is. He is

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you know wildly unfit to be president of the United States for many, many, many reasons

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: including just a total lack of respect and empathy for really profound elements in our

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_01]: country and our history. And that's just an example. And the longer he's on the

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: in the public scene there as a candidate, hopefully not official again, but as long as

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_01]: he's around he's just going to be doing stuff like that. He surrounds himself with people

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_01]: that support it. This is just him being himself. It's what he does and it's shocking

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_01]: and terrible and we can never you know get used to it. He's a raging outlier and we always

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: need to remember that. So I think your outrage is totally proportional to very scientific and

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_03]: objective assessment of the facts. Yeah so that leads into the book because there's a

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_03]: couple of questions based off of that. To me it doesn't seem rational for people to

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_03]: support a guy who is disrespectful of the concept of America, who doesn't respect his

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: constitution. I used to joke with people when he was president I would visit DC I would say

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_03]: I got to get to the archives building and they'd say why because I got to make sure

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_03]: the constitution is still on display right? I mean that's how serious a threat I thought he

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_03]: was. But these people just believe that this guy who wants to be a hangout and grew up as a

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: rich person, as a well-to-do person, these people believe that he is their answer and they

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_03]: don't trust him. It's not like he's some guy that never got the job. He had four years to

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: show what he could do and he didn't deliver for them but they have this irrational belief

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_03]: that things were better when he was there. So you talk about a rationality in the book.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of go into why do you think we have this irrationality? What do you think the root causes

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_01]: are? Well I think you're right and I think even more disturbing in a lot of ways than

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: the things Trump does is the fact that tens of millions of Americans love him and support him

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and that he's the Republican nominee and has a close to a 50% chance of going back

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_01]: despite what he's done. I think you have to give Republicans some leeway

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01]: to support candidates who have a checker history or aren't the best people because

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_01]: just like Democrats, they care about their issues and the Democrats would take a pretty wacky guy

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_01]: or gal as president if they got three Supreme Court justices out of it.

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think you need to remember that Republicans care deeply about the issues and so

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to some extent they're going to put up with a lot but what's really striking to me is

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Trump just goes so far beyond what is worth it in that trade-off. He was really for months,

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01]: not just on January 6th but for months fundamentally trying to overturn an election

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_01]: and thwart the peaceful transfer of power which is the first principle of our system.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: That's the premise of American government. Everything flows. We reorganize government

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_01]: after an election to reflect the will of the people. Everything flows from that.

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a real sign of irrationality. Now to actually answer your question,

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_01]: what's the root cause? I mean the biggest thing I tried to do with the book was assess

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_01]: the root cause. Why are we here? And I think there's three elements working together. The

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_01]: first is age-old cognitive bias that everybody has. Humans are tribal by nature. It's always

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_01]: been that way. It always will. That's one element. Second element is new. The last 25 years we have

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_01]: an internet and now we have social media and all these eco chambers where you can

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_01]: confirm those biases. You can listen to the podcasts you like, ignore the ones you don't

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: and so on. And then the third element is the political system. When you've got all of this

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_01]: tribalism going strong, you want a political system that would tamp that down and ours does

[00:31:46] [SPEAKER_01]: the opposite. It turbo charges those passions with Democrat and Republican super rivalry

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and then the other issues with closed primaries and gerrymandering. So to me the

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01]: root cause is a flywheel that consists of those three elements. Yeah and you know I always

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: have to you know being a former politician I've participated in that redistricting slash

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03]: gerrymandering process and it becomes like a real game and I think you know if somebody has

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_03]: been through it, I think we can get away from the actual elected officials deciding what

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_03]: districts they run in. I think that would be you know a step leaps and bounds. I think states

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_03]: like Mississippi, Iowa, you know places where you know certain populations are you know

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_03]: congested I guess for lack of a better term. Congregated. Yeah let's use that term.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_03]: They would have a better chance to get representation. I'm glad

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that the U.S. Supreme Court recognized that Alabama deserves a second congressional

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_03]: district that could be represented by an African American but you know it shouldn't have to go

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_03]: to court. It should be independent groups to you know just I mean if we need to have AI for

[00:33:24] [SPEAKER_03]: something maybe we just need AI for that. You know what I'm saying? Just you know something

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: totally yeah yeah just something totally objective ain't nobody got no feelings in it.

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just yeah this is the way the district should be done and you have equal population

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and then you know just go for real. It's a real abomination gerrymandering. It's just

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_01]: open affront to democracy that just right in plain sight. It's really unfortunate.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah so you talk about well the title of the book is How America Works and Why It Doesn't.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Talk about to me I you know I get very easily as somebody that is a historical Democrat.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah well Donald Trump is the reason why it's not working now

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_03]: but objectively as you spell in the book why do you think that the system America is not working

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the way it should? Well I think the rampant tribalism that's rooted in those three elements

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: right in bias, social media, the internet and in the political system just combined

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to render a huge percentage of the country on both sides you know really irrational. I think

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Republicans are a lot worse but I do think there's some you know particularly at the extreme

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01]: side of the you know the Democratic you know the left side of the aisle there's some

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: pretty irrational views and actors as well. Trump is the single biggest element right? He's

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_01]: single biggest ingredient. He stirs things up in a really dramatic way but I don't think he's you

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_01]: know he's you know as is a common way to put it I think he's a symptom. He's a big symptom and

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and if he you know if he loses in a few months and leaves the scene that'll do a lot

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_01]: of good but at the end of the day half the country is supporting him. What does that say

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: about half the country? What does it say that 75 million people are going to cast a vote in an

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_01]: American election for a guy who tried to overturn the last one? It just means something

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_03]: deeper and broader is afoot than just him. Yeah well I don't think he's gonna I don't

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_03]: think it's gonna be that close where he can try to do what he did you know last election.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_03]: That's just me. You don't have the power of incumbency either thankfully. Yeah yeah and you

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_03]: know and then to be honest the power of incumbency is on the vice president side as opposed to

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_03]: you know what what Donald Trump had and yes thankfully yeah so you know we'll see.

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Um you uh real quick you you talked about things that you didn't like about the constitution.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Slavery and you know the slavery clause the three-fifths clause

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_03]: um and the second amendment. Slavery from my perspective is pretty obvious.

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh three-fifths is pretty obvious. Second amendment kind of explain why you think that was

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_03]: a bad thing about the constitution and then tell me something about the constitution that you like.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So the set my views on the second amendment are almost sure to ruffle the feathers of

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_01]: almost everybody I talk about it with because um I think about it in two ways that don't

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01]: typically travel together. So on the one hand I do think it's a valid constitutional amendment.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Um it's been interpreted broadly by the supreme court but but so have lots of other

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_01]: provisions been interpreted by the supreme court that people that don't like the second

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_01]: amendment are happy about. The supreme court in the war and era even invented things not there

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_01]: um and and people support that. I don't think it's good for our system to have an interpretive

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_01]: philosophy from our judges that zigs and zags everywhere. I think you should be

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: accurate proportional and try to just have you know the same application of the law whether

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you like a constitutional provision or you don't like. I think that's a healthy

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_01]: form of democracy and let the elected officials you know set policy and and

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_01]: the American people express their will through them as opposed to judges flipping and flopping

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_01]: around. So I disagree with with those who think the second amendment should be rendered a

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_01]: nullity. I don't think that's right. It's there. I think it was however I think the

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_01]: founders made a mistake by including it and writing it the way they did. It's very ambiguous

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's kind of odd how it's been written um and I think the consequences while it's a legally

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01]: legitimate part of the constitution it's there and it's okay for the supreme court to say that

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the consequences have been horrible. It's a big part of our culture of guns and violence. It's

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_01]: not the only thing I mean we also have the corporatization of the gun industry and the NRA

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_01]: and other things but the second amendment is a big part of the culture of guns and violence

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in this country that has led us to have the worst incidents of gun deaths of any

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_01]: developed western democracy by quite a bit by pretty hefty margin. So I think it's a

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: legitimate provision but it was a mistake. It was a mistake and it's you know it's one that

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_01]: stuck for a very long time. The second part of your question what do I like about the

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: constitution? So I say in the book how it's this irony of history that the same document

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: that had these horrible abominations and big mistakes also sets forth a structure of government

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_01]: that has increased human flourishing in a very dramatic way and it's been replicated

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_01]: in lots of other countries to increase human flourishing there and I think our system of

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_01]: separation of powers, federalism, bicameral legislation, an independent judiciary,

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: that whole system of separating out authority and harnessing the sort of inherent rivalries

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_01]: in government instead of having power reposed in one place like history would typically have with

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_01]: a king we've divided it out in a variety of ways and I think that that structure

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_01]: has been profoundly positive for the way humans live and function together.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03]: All right so I got a couple more questions. You talk about there's three traditions that's not

[00:41:00] [SPEAKER_03]: necessarily in the constitution but they're central to what defines us

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_03]: as American. One is the concept of America itself

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and the other two is like the two-party system in capitalism.

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_03]: How they doing? Because you know there's a lot of people that question all of that right with

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the two-party system they feel that you know you've got there's no chance for Robert F.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Jr. or Cornel West or Jill Stein to have equal footing, not unless they have money like Ross

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Perot which ties into the capitalism piece. I ran into protesters you know at the convention

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_03]: and a lot of them were saying capitalism is the reason why the system is corrupt. I've had

[00:42:01] [SPEAKER_03]: people come on the podcast that basically said this is we can't have a fair representative

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_03]: system because of capitalism and then there are some people that believe that

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_03]: America is never going to live up to the ideal it's never going to live up to its creed so

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_03]: why not change the concept? What's your thoughts about that? Great question. I think the

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_01]: two-party system has been a huge part of our history and I strongly support

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: reforming that. I think a more diverse system of parties would be very positive for addressing

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: some of our biggest problems. Getting a multiplicity of views out there would be so

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_01]: healthy for the debate. I mean there are huge important issues that if the Democrats or the

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: off the table and it's not by the world's not binary there's lots of different ways to think

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_01]: about things. It wouldn't solve all of our problems and depending on how it played out

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: it could even make things worse potentially but getting more diverse marketplace of parties I

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: think would be great so I think in that sense it's a negative for our country

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_01]: but it's obviously been a very central part of our history. Capitalism to me the excesses of

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_01]: capitalism are a big problem. I think the inequality that we see is really unfortunate

[00:43:33] [SPEAKER_01]: in the same country you've got people worth 200 billion dollars and then you've got tens of

[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_01]: millions of people struggling to have food and shelter reliable source of food and shelter

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_01]: that's insane. I mean money just sitting idly in these accounts and fluctuating by a billion a day

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in people that will never see it could produce so much good for people so I would favor

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: some real redistribution at the extremes but the core of capitalism I think is a good thing.

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we've got excesses that can be fixed but I do think having entrepreneurial people

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: out there doing things with the part of the motivation being that they'll get ahead and

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_01]: they'll be rewarded actually harnesses human nature in a good way so if we could decrease

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the degree of inequality I think it would be a good thing. We also need more regulations

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: with respect to the environment than some other areas but at its core I think the impulse is

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: good one and it's a helpful one. And then the third one you know with you know

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_01]: the main idea I had with the third element was the rule of law and how important that is to

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_01]: our country because it's not in that you can't just put in the constitution a provision that

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: says everybody will follow this faithfully and all the laws that are passed in local

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_01]: jurisdictions and developed in local people will adhere to that and follow that faithfully.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You actually have to have an ethos that respects the rule of law and historically compared to other

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_01]: countries and compared to other countries today we still have it. That's been a key driver of

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_01]: our success in my opinion. We've had horrific abuses don't get me wrong but a general ethos

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_01]: among people that there are laws that should be followed. If you look at some other countries

[00:45:42] [SPEAKER_01]: they're in really bad shape and it hinders their development so but I think we're

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Donald Trump among others I think contributing to a fraying of that which is a real concern.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I think of those each one is obviously a huge topic but that's the high level.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah yeah I mean you can do a show on each one of those. So I look at your book

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_03]: as a wake-up call right? I love the way that you laid the foundation in the first part of

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_03]: the book explaining about the constitution and all that and then going into you know the

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_03]: challenges what has been happening recently. But how I want to close the Q&A part is

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_03]: what is the biggest threat to democracy that can be easily fixed?

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Great question. The single biggest thing that we could do that would move the needle quickly

[00:46:59] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's attainable would be to send Trump packing in November.

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_01]: That's hardly a novel idea it's hardly creative but it's true. Sometimes the truth is obvious

[00:47:15] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes it's not. That's the single biggest thing we could do get him off the scene. He

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_01]: takes an underlying climate and underlying sort of tectonic problems and makes them

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_01]: dramatically worse. We would still have challenges of course but that would be the single biggest

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_01]: thing we could do to revert in the direction of the mean. I feel like we're very far from

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the mean in American politics. I mean look where we were 10 years ago there was all sorts

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_01]: of kooky dysfunction but it was so much more normal than it is now. So that's the answer.

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that's the single biggest thing we could do. We'd still have a bunch of problems. We'd

[00:47:59] [SPEAKER_01]: still have to sort a lot of things out. Who emerged as the republicans champion would be

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_01]: an important question but I think Trump's such an outlier that whoever takes that mantle

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_01]: from him there's a very high likelihood that they're better for the country than Trump even

[00:48:17] [SPEAKER_01]: if they have problems and are concerning I think there's a huge likelihood they're better

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_03]: than Trump. So that's the biggest thing we can do. Yeah and I agree with you. I think that

[00:48:35] [SPEAKER_03]: the fact that he's been in the limelight for a generation that there's going to be a lot of

[00:48:44] [SPEAKER_03]: to do right. That has to be cleaned up but I think that him not being the titular head of

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_03]: a political party, him not being... I mean he's done something that... He's a historical figure

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_03]: whether we like him or not. He got more votes than any other incumbent in the history of the

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_03]: United States. Even though he lost the election he got 75 million votes. That's historic.

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_03]: He's the first man in the modern era... I don't know. I don't think William Jennings Bryant

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_03]: did it consecutively. He may have but he's the only one I know that won his party's

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_03]: nomination three years and three election cycles in a row so that's a lot of residue

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_01]: that's going to have to be cleaned up. I don't think there's ever been a more dominant primary

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_01]: than the one we just had either. I've never seen that. It just came over before it even started.

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah and so I think that you know I agree with your diagnosis doctor but

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_03]: we're gonna have to get the Mayo Clinic of Politics to really come with a cure for that.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: So where can people get this book? How America Works and Why It Doesn't? And if people want

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_03]: to get in touch with you my friend how can they do that? Yeah so anywhere online. It's

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of bookstores but the easiest way to do it is online. Just plug it into Google and it'll

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_01]: come up. Amazon of course but if you're another bookseller it's on all of them.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_01]: All the main ones. I have a website will-cooper.com and love to interact with people.

[00:50:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Love to talk these things through as you know Eric. So anybody interested in connecting just

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_03]: reach out. The website's probably the easiest way to do it. All right well Will as always my

[00:51:03] [SPEAKER_03]: friend it's an honor to have you come on. I am really honored that not only have you been a

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_03]: good and frequent guest but you've been a supporter of the podcast. I appreciate

[00:51:25] [SPEAKER_03]: the kind words that you put in the book and that you've extolled to other people.

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_03]: And I appreciate your enthusiasm but more importantly and I've said this before I

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_03]: appreciate the way that you look at things. It's very hard in this day and age to really

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_03]: find somebody to look at the political system not only in an objective fashion but then to

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_03]: be able to articulate it so that people can understand. And I think that's really key. So

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm praying that this book is a New York Times bestseller not just for your personal

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_03]: financial reasons but that people need to have this. People need to read it and

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_03]: and get a basic understanding of why this country is great and why it can be better.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Right and you know a lot of folks that I know it's like man I don't even know why

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_03]: you got into politics. I had people tell me I was wasting my time being a political science major

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but I'm telling you as a black person in America this system is an incredible opportunity

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and the only way that we can take advantage of that opportunity is that opportunity still

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_03]: exists. And I think people like you and others that offer legitimate critiques of where we are

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_03]: and what we can do is very very important so I thank you most importantly for that.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_03]: So I appreciate it and as always I appreciate you coming on the podcast.

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_03]: All right I may have lost them at the end but

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_03]: again I thank Will for coming on and we'll catch y'all on the other side.

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_03]: All right and we are back so again I want to thank Will for coming on

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03]: not only to talk about his book but just to

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_03]: give his observations. He's really really a very very deep

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_03]: writer and thinker but he's also a solid dude and like I stated you know in the interview

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: he's been a big supporter of the podcast and I am always thrilled to have him on

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and you know as long as I've got this podcast he definitely has an open invitation as

[00:54:46] [SPEAKER_03]: any other guest that's been on but Will has definitely taken advantage of that

[00:54:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and I am very very grateful. Now before I get off the air

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_03]: something has really really been on my mind and I've kind of touched on it a little bit

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_03]: you know on different shows and all that kind of stuff but you know I went to this

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_03]: Democratic convention and I was really impressed with how the party put it together

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_03]: considering short notice and if you heard it you know in the interview I gave respect to

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_03]: the Republicans for dealing with a situation and pulling off their convention as well

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know coming back from the convention I didn't really

[00:55:53] [SPEAKER_03]: follow social media while I was there but I followed it when I got back and you know

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe it's not healthy you know I'm on as many social media platforms I possibly can

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm trying to promote the show as always right but you know outside of that

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm really not trying to engage with a lot of people every now and then I you know I get a

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_03]: answer my pants as the old folks used to say and I'll respond to certain things

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know one of the things that came out after the convention was I noticed there were

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people especially people of color but not limited to them who just felt like they

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_03]: had to bitch and complain about something that you know these just had to air every grievance

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_03]: no matter how minute or whatever it's and maybe these folks are like me that you know

[00:57:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that's their therapy right this podcast is my therapy I tell people that all the time

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_03]: but you know maybe social media is their therapy I don't know but see unlike them

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_03]: right if there are people that disagree with my position or you know we have an opposite view

[00:57:40] [SPEAKER_03]: of a position of on an issue they are welcome to come on this podcast the door is open

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_03]: all we got to do is find a time slot for us to record the interview

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_03]: that's it that's the only restriction you know and and my experience has been that

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_03]: people have been polite we may not sway each other's mindset one way or the other but at

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_03]: least they came on and they had an opportunity to say what they needed to say on their position

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_03]: you know just recently right I've had people on different sides of the

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_03]: Israeli Hamas conflict for example or people that have different positions

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_03]: on the legalization of marijuana for example regardless of my position on it both sides

[00:58:39] [SPEAKER_03]: had I think their best spokespersons right come on and talk about why they feel the way that

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_03]: they feel and that to me is what American politics is supposed to be about in the theme

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_03]: of having will come on and talk about how America works and why it doesn't one of the

[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that it's not working the way it should is because we've given too much leverage to

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_03]: who I am going to classify as grievance pimps these are people that you know because and I

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_03]: twisting a phrase from back in the day I remember when people used to be critical of

[00:59:30] [SPEAKER_03]: like Jesse Jackson senior or Reverend Sharpton or anybody else that would come to places where

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_03]: they were having a major conflict especially dealing with race or dealing with economics

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and they would say these people swoop in and they get all the spotlight and all this stuff and

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_03]: um you know and or certain elected officials get in

[00:59:58] [SPEAKER_03]: and they used to call them poverty pimps right because they said well these folks are just

[01:00:05] [SPEAKER_03]: taking advantage of you know a situation and they're just trying to get attention

[01:00:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and what really these people were doing and attorney krump is in that same mode Ben Krump

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_03]: is that they're using their cache to bring national attention to that issue right because

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_03]: nobody would have cared about an mci meeting with Bernie Ebers in Jackson Mississippi if

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Reverend Jackson didn't show up as a shareholder and talk about why these employees are not

[01:00:50] [SPEAKER_03]: union members right uh you know and fight for better wages for these people it just would have

[01:01:00] [SPEAKER_03]: been another board meeting in a state where people were falling in love with this guy I

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_03]: mean they before he got indicted and convicted they were talking about Bernie Evers being

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_03]: governor of Mississippi right and you know Reverend Jackson came down and basically said

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_03]: hey before y'all start coordinating this guy you know he need to be paying his folks

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_03]: fairly for the work that they're doing compared to AT&T and other companies right

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03]: so you know when you have people like that and then Ben Krump you know with all these

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_03]: excessive force uses by police that have led to tragic consequences right uh you know black men

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and women dying Ben Krump showing up brings the media and once the media latches on to it

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_03]: then it's his own entity and sometimes the family retains him as lead counsel and sometimes

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_03]: just have him as an advisor but nonetheless he's utilizing his cache to bring highlight to an

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_03]: issue he doesn't need the relevance as a matter of fact what what I've noticed that he's done

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_03]: is that because of his strong relationship with the national bar association is that he brings

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: in other attorneys he highlights black attorneys in those particular areas and say hey look

[01:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: y'all these folks can handle on the ground all I want to do is make sure you get the

[01:02:46] [SPEAKER_03]: media attention that you need to fight this fight right that's not pimping at all that's

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that's using the power of your celebrity to help people that need the help when I talk

[01:03:05] [SPEAKER_03]: about grievance pimps and especially in this age of social media I'm talking about people who

[01:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: get on platforms just to be contrarian just to say something so they can get some click

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_03]: so they can get some likes even if they may have a legitimate issue or gripe to deal with

[01:03:32] [SPEAKER_03]: they have bad timing as far as the relevance of that particular issue and two

[01:03:40] [SPEAKER_03]: all they all they're trying to do is to get attention to them they're not trying to

[01:03:46] [SPEAKER_03]: solve the problem they're just trying to make sure that they have a strong following

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: so they can get whatever revenue is attached to that notoriety attached to that

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_03]: try to monopolize and say they're the authority on a particular issue when

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_03]: they're not right because most of the time they don't have the facts they're very opinionated

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_03]: and in this country you're allowed to be opinionated but it would help if you had some

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_03]: facts but you know the ultimate grievance pimp I'll get to in a moment but

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm talking about these these people of color and I don't want to call them out by name

[01:04:46] [SPEAKER_03]: because I'm not really trying to be petty or start a personal war and it's more than just

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: one or two people it's a lot of folks it's men it's women it's black it's

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_03]: latino it's age whatever it's a bunch of folks and they throw out this red meat to get people

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_03]: riled up they throw out this misinformation to get people riled up so people can follow them

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: catch their live ex twitter feed or instagram or clubhouse or chat or whatever they own

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: to just ingratiate themselves and not really do anything to help the issue

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and the one issue that really pisses me off that this is happening is dealing with reparations

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_03]: and I take it very personally because I'm a black man

[01:05:51] [SPEAKER_03]: and I have always believed that the United States needs to repair the damage

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_03]: that's been done to black people historically we know historically there have been some

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_03]: efforts to do that especially right around the civil war and reconstruction era

[01:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: but they weren't sustained because white privilege and power white supremacy shut it down

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_03]: right and every battle we have fought has been just to get some modicum of respect

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_03]: and some peace and tranquility right but it's always fallen short of repairing the economic

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: damage and so there have been some efforts there are people like ebony reed and lisa story

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: who are going around and and uh

[01:07:10] [SPEAKER_03]: uh I want to say john hope brian if i get his name wrong I apologize but there have been

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_03]: people like that that have been going around the country talking about um cam howard uh you

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: know how ron daniels there have been people that have been going around for years

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: um to talk about the wealth gap and how we as african-americans need to better understand

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: the capitalistic system to maintain and sustain and follow the biblical principle of living

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: life and living it abundantly right within this society and even to the point where you

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: know some of these people uh like alderwoman simmons up in evanston

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_03]: illinois who actually got reparations or the mayor of stockton california who's actually

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: paying people a subsidy that are low income that are tanaf recipients to try to get them

[01:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: out of poverty and those are former reparations and those are actions

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: right and there's been groups forever like when you know I was young uh I was and I didn't

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_03]: realize I was part of the formation but I was part of the formation of the encobra

[01:08:53] [SPEAKER_03]: national coalition of blacks or black reparations of america right um you know back in like the

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_03]: late 80s so you know this is something that's near and dear to me and what really kind of

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_03]: people trying to end the genocide that is happening in gaza and I can fully say that

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_03]: now you know it's like you know genocide's a strong word but based on what the israeli

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_03]: government has done recently by now launching raids and attacks in the west bank which had

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_03]: nothing to do with a mosque because whatever basic understanding that people have about

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: that conflict historically hamas has been centered in gaza it's been the palestinian

[01:10:04] [SPEAKER_03]: authority that's been running the west bank and they had nothing to do with

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_03]: october 7th but because now dan yahu is in the same position as trump by the way that

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_03]: the longer he's in power he doesn't go to jail um you know then they've escalated it now to

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_03]: the west bank which at this point it makes the south african the republic of south africa look

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_03]: like geniuses by calling it and getting the world court to call it what was international

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_03]: court as genocide right so these young people in the united states and some older ones too

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_03]: are mobilizing people to deal with this issue right they're not just on social media just

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_03]: grieve they're you know to express their outrage they're taking action

[01:11:20] [SPEAKER_03]: and so when vice president harris gave her speech

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: um to accept the democratic nomination there were literally over 23 000 people

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_03]: in the united center it's a lot of folks right in one spot how about that monday

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_03]: at union park about a mile or so away from the united center there were 20 000 people

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_03]: at the park and they marched down to the united center based on this issue of the genocide

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: that's going on in gaza and you know with all due respect

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_03]: to those folks who support israel and of the jewish faith and all that stuff

[01:12:32] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're offended by me calling it a genocide i you know i'm sorry that

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_03]: you feel that way but i have to just call it like i see it

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_03]: um so that's that and again you know i've i've had the general counselor on the show for

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_03]: uh state of israel and um you know anybody else that wants to challenge that

[01:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: you're more than welcome to come on i don't say it out of hate or you know whatever um

[01:13:22] [SPEAKER_03]: but i'm just calling balls and strikes at this point right but that's another topic for another

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_03]: day what i want to highlight is the fact that whether you agree with these young people

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_03]: or not they're mobilizing they're organizing and they're having an impact in the discussion

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_03]: the grievance pimps that are using reparations as their vehicle to get attention or whatever

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_03]: are not doing that now elected officials like alda woman simmons and

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_03]: some other folks i mentioned are like trying to do that work the commission that was in california

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_03]: right where now there's actually a bill that the governor has got to sign dealing with

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_03]: reparations that's action that's what's needed but none of these folks that are saying oh well

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_03]: you know vice president harris ain't said that and biden ain't said nothing have you

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_03]: mobilized 20 000 people to show up at these places of power to advocate for that no

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_03]: you've got all these folks that listen to you or follow you on social media and there's been

[01:14:55] [SPEAKER_03]: no call to action right and if there has been a call to action obviously it wasn't of the

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_03]: magnitude that would generate the interest when those women were upset because donald trump got

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: elected they organized and within literally weeks i give them a couple months they had

[01:15:26] [SPEAKER_03]: organized protests not only in the united states but around the world there were literally

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_03]: thousands of people in every major city around the world protesting the election of donald trump

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and what that meant to the women's movement right 12 percent of this nation is african-american

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: 12 you mean to tell me that an issue as important as repairing the damage that was

[01:16:03] [SPEAKER_03]: done to us for hundreds of years in slavery that we can't galvanize black folks to have

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_03]: demonstrations in every major city demanding reparations we did it for police brutality

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_03]: when we saw a black man george florida get killed on social media we galvanized

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_03]: and the country listened we had corporate america saying oh we're friends with black

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_03]: people and all the de i experts got hired right if there's any group of people that can mobilize

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_03]: in the united states of america for a cause it's been black folks there is literally a

[01:16:58] [SPEAKER_03]: holiday for a man who was never president of the united states because he was the spokesperson

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_03]: he was the conscience of the nation dealing with how black folks had been treated he is

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_03]: in the american icon there was a second level amount rushmore he would have his face carved in

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_03]: it but none of you folks that try to blast every black person and especially every black

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_03]: person that wasn't born in the united states on social media and stuff nobody's gonna carve

[01:17:42] [SPEAKER_03]: anything for you because you're getting your reward right now you're dealing with instant

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_03]: gratification you're not dealing with a solution to the problem and as long as there is a

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_03]: problem you can pimp off of that that's what i'm talking about you can milk that for whatever

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_03]: benefit you get you're not trying to solve the problem all you're trying to do is exacerbate

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_03]: the problem enough and cause confusion and dissension enough so you can benefit from it

[01:18:29] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's a waste of my time anybody else's time when you come across our timeline or our

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_03]: feed because you're not about action you want to be heard you want to be seen great

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: but what are you going to do see nobody is going to threaten your life like fred hampton or

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_03]: huy newton because you're not mobilizing anybody or dr king or malcolm x you're not

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_03]: mobilizing anybody you're not a threat your entertainment you know it's like Beyonce is an

[01:19:23] [SPEAKER_03]: entertainer but she has mobilized people Taylor swift is an entertainer but she's mobilized

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_03]: people you have not and that irritates me greatly because you and your synchophones

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_03]: like this bubble that you got and you want to crap on everybody else that

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: calls you out or or doesn't agree with you 100 you'll never have them on your show

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_03]: or your your spaces you'll never invite people that disagree with you

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_03]: other than you know you might want to troll them or have your folks pile on them

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_03]: but you're not going to have a discussion about it because you're not about business

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_03]: we got some folks still grieving about the vaccine really get over that right now it's

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not important right now that either four years ago you got the shot or you didn't

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_03]: and if you're still with us and you didn't get the shot praise god

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_03]: if you didn't get covet praise god i got covet and i got the shot and i got the boosters

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_03]: i'm done with that i survived that i have bigger fish to fry and focus on

[01:20:58] [SPEAKER_03]: right but some of y'all ain't quite got over that yet how you gonna mobilize people on

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_03]: something that everybody has already made a decision one way or the other what they're

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_03]: gonna do right that's that's done either you got the shot or you didn't

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_03]: over it either you got coveted you didn't that's over it basically so what we're now looking at

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_03]: is can we get somebody elected to the white house to the u.s congress to the governor's mansion

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_03]: to the state assemblies

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_03]: that will entertain reparations now the folks that want to end the war in gaza are mobilizing

[01:22:04] [SPEAKER_03]: they are getting thousands of people to show up they have people situated at presidential rallies

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_03]: they're mobilizing they're organizing they're educating people on the issue

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_03]: one of the most pleasant conversations i had in chicago was his brother

[01:22:24] [SPEAKER_03]: when i was coming to the protest to cover it and we sat and talked he didn't necessarily want

[01:22:31] [SPEAKER_03]: to be interviewed but he gave me enough background where i could ask intelligent questions

[01:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: primarily because he was educating me on why they were doing what they were doing

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and he was not just doing that to me he was doing that to everybody and he wasn't mad he

[01:22:51] [SPEAKER_03]: wasn't hostile he wasn't even if he felt that i didn't agree with him his job

[01:22:58] [SPEAKER_03]: was to educate organize and mobilize and that's what you should be doing if you're talking

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_03]: about something serious as reparations if you want to discriminate against immigrants

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_03]: that's a whole nother issue right but i think that's a distraction to what you claim that you

[01:23:26] [SPEAKER_03]: want because no matter what dna test you put out there no matter what criteria you set for

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_03]: it's like you know naturalized but born said whatever anybody black in the diaspora can make

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_03]: a claim right and that's something that the elected officials have to decide and if you want

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_03]: to throw the criteria out there but you think that's good but you individually just having so

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_03]: many clicks doesn't mean anything what elected officials respond to is masses of people

[01:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: showing up where they work

[01:24:14] [SPEAKER_03]: demanding action and if you're not about that life if you're not about organizing and educating

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: and mobilizing people then you're wasting our time and it's not just on reparations any issue

[01:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: you are wasting our time and it's not me that gets to be the arbiter of credibility

[01:24:43] [SPEAKER_03]: it's on you if you want to do something to make a change in the united states of america while we

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_03]: still have a democracy to do it in you need to educate organize and mobilize period

[01:25:01] [SPEAKER_03]: if all you want to do is bitch and complain good luck as a chicago sports fan if

[01:25:21] [SPEAKER_03]: me and thousands of others are displeased with the way a team that we support is performing

[01:25:29] [SPEAKER_03]: we stop going to the games might put paper bags over it whatever it is

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_03]: people mobilize and they they organize and they say look we're not happy with that

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_03]: and then decisions get made it happens every year

[01:25:52] [SPEAKER_03]: whether it's chicago los vegas new york whatever wherever city has a sports team that happens

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and it's natural because the common sense is that the people we're reaching the people

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_03]: because we believe that the people want to have a competitive team on the field regardless

[01:26:15] [SPEAKER_03]: what sport it is it's the same thing in politics we want to believe that the folks that are

[01:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: elected have the best interests of the united states at heart it's questionable nowadays

[01:26:29] [SPEAKER_03]: because we've got a lot of grievance pimps that actually got elected

[01:26:35] [SPEAKER_03]: right and the grievance pimp of all is donald trump

[01:26:42] [SPEAKER_03]: is doing the exact opposite of what ragan ragan is doing he's doing the exact opposite

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_03]: of what kamala harris is doing or barack obama or bill clinton these people talked about hope

[01:26:55] [SPEAKER_03]: they talked about change they talked about what america can do and sit there and say oh

[01:27:02] [SPEAKER_03]: america is this sorry place and it's a hell hole and only i can fix it i want y'all to

[01:27:12] [SPEAKER_03]: follow the electoral college donald trump had 304 electoral votes in 2016 he dropped all the way

[01:27:20] [SPEAKER_03]: down to 232 and my bold prediction is that he's barely going to get 200

[01:27:28] [SPEAKER_03]: because the american people don't want to be told they're sorry they don't want to be

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_03]: told they live in a hell hole they don't want to be told that everything is bad they want to see

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_03]: the world and they want to hear elected officials talk about how we are going to get better

[01:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and they want to see movement so when you see these people show up at a harris rally

[01:27:59] [SPEAKER_03]: that's movement the most successful politicians in the history of america created movements

[01:28:09] [SPEAKER_03]: for that election kennedy reagan clinton obama and i predict harris it's about movements

[01:28:21] [SPEAKER_03]: it's not about sitting in your computer on your phone just griping what are you going to

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_03]: do about it when you see people organizing these massive zoom meetings that's as action

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that's how you win that's how you change things if all you are about is how many likes you have

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_03]: how many clicks you get that's not leadership that's entertainment if we are serious about

[01:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: reparations in america it's time for movement it's time for educating it's time for organizing

[01:29:09] [SPEAKER_03]: time to mobilize and there are people that have already started that but instead of embracing or

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_03]: lending your skill set to movements that are happening you want to do your own thing

[01:29:28] [SPEAKER_03]: you want to have your own corner that's pimping or to use a drug analogy that's pushing

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_03]: that's not leadership so you know if you are satisfied in the window that you are in

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: that's you but for the rest of us

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_03]: we want to be part of a movement so

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_03]: so that that's all i gotta say on it

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_03]: i've been active in organizations i support people who are moving the needle forward

[01:30:27] [SPEAKER_03]: if there's anything i can contribute to the movement that's already out there

[01:30:32] [SPEAKER_03]: i am more than willing to do that

[01:30:36] [SPEAKER_03]: but i am not about pimping anybody i'm not about grieving just to grieve

[01:30:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and if you want to counter and say well you criticizing us that's that's a grievance

[01:30:52] [SPEAKER_03]: but i'm not trying to mobilize people i'm not trying to take away your clicks

[01:30:58] [SPEAKER_03]: i'm not trying to take away your claim to fame i'm just calling you out on what you're doing

[01:31:10] [SPEAKER_03]: my time and my contribution is anybody that supports reparations i want you on the podcast

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_03]: so you can reach out to other people i want to be a tool just like i want to be a tool to see

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_03]: donald trump no longer in office just like i want to be a tool to see american democracy

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_03]: restored just like i want to be a tool to make sure that african americans achieve

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_03]: in this country that's all i'm trying to do i don't need to lead something where leaders

[01:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: already exist i need to follow i need to do my part to educate i need to do my part to

[01:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: organize i need to do my part to help mobilize people under the leadership that's legitimate

[01:32:05] [SPEAKER_03]: out there i don't need to divide the nation to make the nation rise because that's actually

[01:32:16] [SPEAKER_03]: a contradiction i need to unify the nation i want people to feel positive about reparations

[01:32:32] [SPEAKER_03]: like they change their mind about lgbtq like how they change their mind about age research

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_03]: like how they change their mind about civil rights

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: i want to be part of a movement and and y'all that i'm talking about are not doing that

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_03]: so i would strongly encourage you to take self out of it and be part of the movement

[01:33:14] [SPEAKER_03]: that's all i gotta say folks until next time

[01:33:49] you