In this episode, Ianta Summers, CEO of Summers Public Affairs, and Dr. Reneé Carr, licensed psychologist and host of the Politics & Psychology podcast, offer their perspectives on how we, as African Americans, go forward during this period in American politics.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 make this moment a movement.
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00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NVG Podcast Network.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:56 Music.
00:01:26 --> 00:01:26 Thank you.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:02 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:08 And today, as this episode drops, is Inauguration Day.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:15 It is also the holiday that we celebrate the birthday of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:19 And that's an interesting juxtaposition.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:24 Some of us were hoping that this would be a crowning achievement day,
00:02:25 --> 00:02:33 that the first black woman would be president of the United States being sworn in, but instead...
00:02:34 --> 00:02:41 It's Donald Trump. And so, considering all that he has espoused and stands for,
00:02:42 --> 00:02:49 it's really, really interesting that he has to be sworn in on this federal holiday
00:02:49 --> 00:02:57 to commemorate a man who probably would have been protesting him if he was still alive.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:08 So, there's that. And this is really the start of something that we are,
00:03:08 --> 00:03:12 some of us were dreading, but now we're going to have to deal with it.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:16 And so the two guests I have today are,
00:03:17 --> 00:03:21 first of all, previous guests, people that have been on the show before,
00:03:21 --> 00:03:26 but they also kind of have their own unique perspective of how we go forward
00:03:26 --> 00:03:32 through this moment based on their disciplines and their experience.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:39 So I think that you will get something totally, totally valuable out of this discussion.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:45 And a lot of times for the audience, it may be reaffirming.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:51 But for those of you who are listening and maybe for the first time understanding
00:03:51 --> 00:03:55 certain viewpoints, I hope that this is enlightening to you.
00:03:56 --> 00:04:00 So without any further ado, let's go ahead and get this started.
00:04:01 --> 00:04:06 And as always, we start this show off with a moment of news with Grace Chee.
00:04:06 --> 00:04:13 Music.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:17 Thanks, Eric. Hamas and Israel agreed to a ceasefire in Gaza,
00:04:18 --> 00:04:21 which includes a hostage exchange after 15 months of conflict.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:26 In his farewell address, President Biden warned of the emergence of an American
00:04:26 --> 00:04:29 oligarchy among tech billionaires,
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 likening it to Eisenhower's concerns about a military-industrial complex and
00:04:33 --> 00:04:37 emphasizing the threat to democracy and individual rights.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:42 Special counsel Jack Smith's report accused Donald Trump of a criminal effort
00:04:42 --> 00:04:47 to overturn the 2020 election, but potential prosecution was hindered by his
00:04:47 --> 00:04:52 election victory, leading to Smith's resignation after submitting his final report.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:57 The death toll in the Los Angeles wildfires has risen to 25 as firefighters
00:04:57 --> 00:04:59 still battle to contain them.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:04 Pete Hegseth faced tough questioning addressing past controversies but maintained
00:05:04 --> 00:05:08 Republican support during his confirmation hearing for Secretary of Defense.
00:05:09 --> 00:05:14 Pam Bondi, nominated for U.S. Attorney General, promised not to target individuals
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 based on politics, but avoided specifics on investigating Trump's critics at
00:05:19 --> 00:05:20 her confirmation hearing.
00:05:20 --> 00:05:25 A DOJ report revealed that some state and local law enforcement officials participated
00:05:25 --> 00:05:29 in the 1921 Tulsa, Oklahoma, race massacre.
00:05:29 --> 00:05:34 The U.S. House passed the Protection of Women and Girls in Sports Act,
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 aimed at banning transgender girls and women from school sports.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:43 The FCC dismissed complaints regarding ABC News' moderation of the Biden-Trump
00:05:43 --> 00:05:48 debate and Vice President Harris' appearances on CBS and NBC.
00:05:48 --> 00:05:53 Elon Musk was sued by the SEC for failing to promptly disclose his significant
00:05:53 --> 00:05:58 stake in Twitter, which allowed him to buy shares at lower prices before prices
00:05:58 --> 00:05:59 surged after his disclosure.
00:06:00 --> 00:06:06 And U.S. job growth surged in December with non-farm payrolls increasing by
00:06:06 --> 00:06:11 256 jobs and the unemployment rate dropping to 4.1%.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:22 Music.
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.
00:06:26 --> 00:06:31 And now it is time for my first guest, Ayanta Summers.
00:06:32 --> 00:06:38 Ayanta Summers is a noted public affairs strategist and Washington insider for over 20 years.
00:06:39 --> 00:06:44 She has advised mayors, members of Congress, as well as C-suite executives,
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 and is recognized as a leader in today's uncertain times.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:54 She cut her teeth in her career in politics at the private lobbying firm of
00:06:54 --> 00:06:59 Van Soyak Associates, where she gained valuable skills in federal advocacy.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:02 Coalition, and relationship building.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:07 From there, she served four years as a legislative staffer on the Coast Guard
00:07:07 --> 00:07:12 and Maritime Transportation Subcommittee under the guidance of the Honorable Elijah E.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 Cummings and Committee Chair James Oberstar.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 During her time on the Hill, she developed a niche for maritime transportation.
00:07:21 --> 00:07:27 While a staffer, she passed the 2010 Coast Guard Reauthorization Act,
00:07:27 --> 00:07:32 presided over the investigation of the 2009 Deepwater Horizon spill,
00:07:32 --> 00:07:37 as well as conducted over 25 hearings on the subcommittee during her time on the Hill.
00:07:38 --> 00:07:42 In 2017, Ms. Summers helped organize the Women's March on Washington,
00:07:42 --> 00:07:49 the largest protest in American history that spanned a total of 5 million protesters worldwide.
00:07:49 --> 00:07:57 She and her team was named the 2017 Glamour Women of the Year and later organized
00:07:57 --> 00:08:00 the 2017 Women's Convention in Detroit,
00:08:00 --> 00:08:08 where over 5 first-time grassroots organizers gathered for two full days of plenaries.
00:08:09 --> 00:08:12 Breakout sessions, keynote speakers, and celebrity entertainers.
00:08:12 --> 00:08:20 In 2020, she served as an associate producer on the Biden-Harris campaign paid
00:08:20 --> 00:08:25 media team, where she helped produce targeted commercials and art installations for the campaign.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:30 She has worked with leaders and activists in the civil rights community to develop
00:08:30 --> 00:08:34 key communication strategies, state and federal advocacy plans,
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 and international coalition building.
00:08:37 --> 00:08:43 As a strategist, a variety of issues cross her path where she is able to utilize
00:08:43 --> 00:08:47 her skills to navigate efficient solutions.
00:08:47 --> 00:08:52 She is a native of Newport News, Virginia, and is a graduate of University of
00:08:52 --> 00:08:56 Maryland with a degree in global business and public policy.
00:08:57 --> 00:09:02 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have again on
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 this podcast, Ianta Summers.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:15 Music.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 All right. Ianta Summers, how are you doing, sister? You doing good?
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 Better. I'm blessed. I'm here. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:29 We going to try to make it. We going to try to make it.
00:09:29 --> 00:09:34 I'm glad that you agreed to come on because I definitely wanted to get your
00:09:34 --> 00:09:37 perspective based on your history,
00:09:37 --> 00:09:44 what you do as far as business and then what you've done as far as an activist.
00:09:44 --> 00:09:49 As far as what we're approaching, because when this this podcast airs,
00:09:49 --> 00:09:51 it'll be inauguration day.
00:09:52 --> 00:09:59 Oh, OK, great. Yeah. So I definitely said, let me let me get this system.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:05 So as as we as as normal, I'm going to throw a quote at you and I'm going to get your response.
00:10:06 --> 00:10:13 I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot accept.
00:10:13 --> 00:10:15 What does that quote mean to you?
00:10:16 --> 00:10:21 It means that you, like Michelle Obama said, I'm keeping my peace and I'm not
00:10:21 --> 00:10:25 doing, I'm not overextending myself and being in places where I know I'm not
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 welcome or where I feel uncomfortable.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:32 It means protecting your peace and your space. That's what it means to me.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:40 All right. So I've added another feature. so i want you to between the number
00:10:40 --> 00:10:49 between one and 20 give me a number 13 all right so.
00:10:50 --> 00:10:56 Question number 13 is a feature it's something i picked up in my meetup group
00:10:56 --> 00:11:00 it's called crossing party lines and somebody put this out here and i said yeah
00:11:00 --> 00:11:04 this would be a good talking point or an icebreaker.
00:11:04 --> 00:11:12 So question 13 is, do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?
00:11:13 --> 00:11:18 It's unbiased to an extent, but not cable news. Cable news is not designed to
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 be unbiased. And I think that's what people don't understand.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:26 Cable news is entertainment. It is not just news. It is opinion.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:30 And that's why you have so many talking heads on cable news.
00:11:30 --> 00:11:36 Now, the broadcast networks that have to broadcast into your home, like ABC, PBS, NBC,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:45 Nightly News, those are less biased, but they also have a veneer of interpretation
00:11:45 --> 00:11:46 of the human experience.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 So there is going to be some kind of opinion.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54 It may be fact-based opinion, but there is some kind of opinion that goes with
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 that kind of news reporting as well.
00:11:56 --> 00:12:01 It's not just straight from the street news reporting. It's interpretation so
00:12:01 --> 00:12:06 that people understand the nuances of time and space and when things happen.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 Yeah, I tend to I tend to think that.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:20 You know, the more independent the news source financially, the less bias you would have.
00:12:21 --> 00:12:27 I just, you know, I mean, all the major networks are owned by major conglomerates.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 And we saw what happened with The Washington Post and Los Angeles Times during
00:12:32 --> 00:12:33 the election and all that.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:38 So I just I agree with what you're saying.
00:12:38 --> 00:12:46 And, you know, they they they have a perspective, but it's it's not totally
00:12:46 --> 00:12:51 clean to me because there are certain things they won't be able to run because.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:59 You know, they're they're they're corporate controlled as compared to like Reuters
00:12:59 --> 00:13:03 or what's another good one?
00:13:03 --> 00:13:06 The guardian or curry or something like that ap the
00:13:06 --> 00:13:09 intercept all the a lot of these a lot of
00:13:09 --> 00:13:12 internet a lot of places that
00:13:12 --> 00:13:15 got their start on the internet are now expanding into
00:13:15 --> 00:13:18 more broadcast so yeah more independent
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 journalists but even you know everything has
00:13:21 --> 00:13:24 to be funded but that's true yeah money
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 makes the world go around money makes the world go
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 around there's anytime you have something you know
00:13:30 --> 00:13:33 that's unless you have a product that you sell in if
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 you're having looking for something to be funded there's going
00:13:36 --> 00:13:43 to be contingencies on how those funds are spent and what you can say because
00:13:43 --> 00:13:47 you know people are always looking out for their bottom line and that's just
00:13:47 --> 00:13:53 what business is yeah people are in business to make money not lose money Well,
00:13:53 --> 00:13:54 that's true. That's true.
00:13:55 --> 00:14:00 That's true. And, you know, contrary to popular belief, you know.
00:14:01 --> 00:14:08 Most people in the United States want people not only they they want to make
00:14:08 --> 00:14:12 money, but they they don't want to stop people from making money.
00:14:12 --> 00:14:17 I think the biggest concern we have is how much is enough.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:27 I think we lack our capitalistic society lacks discipline as far as what we need and all that.
00:14:27 --> 00:14:34 If you just happen to make 400 billion dollars, OK, but it's like I expect you
00:14:34 --> 00:14:40 to do more with that wealth than just hoard it because you can't ever spend
00:14:40 --> 00:14:41 all of that in your lifetime.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:46 You can't even spend a billion dollars in your lifetime and you've got 400 times that.
00:14:47 --> 00:14:53 But anyway, I digress. Let me let me get back to you. In May of 2023,
00:14:54 --> 00:14:58 you wrote, our democracy came razor thin to anarchy.
00:14:59 --> 00:15:05 The actions and speech of 45 that day were reckless and unacceptable for a functioning democracy.
00:15:06 --> 00:15:10 He must be held accountable and punished for his failure to act and protect
00:15:10 --> 00:15:11 the people of this country.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:18 What are your feelings now considering that he was not held accountable and in fact reelected?
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 How do I feel about Trump? Yeah. 47?
00:15:22 --> 00:15:26 Yeah. I think that people get what they're going to find out.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 They wanted this. Well, here's the thing.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:35 Trump, in my opinion, didn't want Democrats' loss because so many people stayed home.
00:15:36 --> 00:15:40 And that's a failure of the Democratic messaging. That's a failure of foreign policy.
00:15:41 --> 00:15:46 Trump, I believe, is not going to be able to carry out most of the things that he wants to do.
00:15:46 --> 00:15:50 He's going to cause a lot of chaos because he's going to constantly be in the media.
00:15:50 --> 00:15:55 He will be on his shoebox every day to distract us, and the media is going to
00:15:55 --> 00:16:02 make a news story of every little thing that he says that goes against traditional norms.
00:16:02 --> 00:16:07 So I expect him to cause a lot of chaos, but I don't expect a lot of things
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 to be passed in the House because of his razor-thin margins.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:18 And I also think that with Trump already saying that he's not going to do anything
00:16:18 --> 00:16:20 to help people with the cost of living,
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 like we're not going to go back, eggs are not going back down with $2,
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 gas is not going to go back down,
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 you know, inflation is not going back down, it's going to go back up.
00:16:30 --> 00:16:34 And because he wants to implement tariffs, his base is going to,
00:16:34 --> 00:16:38 I think his base is eventually going to turn on him because they look at him
00:16:38 --> 00:16:42 as some economic genius and someone who is going to put tariffs.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:47 More money in their pockets. And most people don't understand how that money
00:16:47 --> 00:16:51 gets to your pockets and what it has to go through to get to your pocket.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:56 So the policies that he will implement will be hurtful to most Americans.
00:16:56 --> 00:17:02 And I think that eventually, he has two years to get anything that he wants
00:17:02 --> 00:17:06 to get done because by the midterms in 2026.
00:17:07 --> 00:17:13 He has three seats in the house. What is it? No, five seats in the House.
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 And a lot of his, a lot of the electives are very vulnerable.
00:17:16 --> 00:17:21 So we do see, I do see some, some relief coming in two years,
00:17:21 --> 00:17:25 but the next two years, it's just going to be very chaotic, extremely chaotic.
00:17:25 --> 00:17:30 And the fact that Trump is so successful because he has such a rabid base that
00:17:30 --> 00:17:32 will attack people, we've seen that.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 He threatens people. He threatened Mark Zuckerberg with jail.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 So that's why he's rolling back all this DEI stuff.
00:17:39 --> 00:17:45 You know, he threatens people to be locked up. He's a very corrupt leader. He's not a leader.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:51 He's like a carnival barker to me. And people are following his chaos because
00:17:51 --> 00:17:54 they believe that, oh, he's a successful man.
00:17:54 --> 00:17:58 And he whatever he's doing and must be right when we know that what he's doing
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 is detrimental to everybody who's not a billionaire.
00:18:01 --> 00:18:05 And people haven't seemed to catch on to that.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:12 So you said that the Democratic messaging or lack of messaging was the problem.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:21 Why do you think people buy into the fact that Donald Trump has an economic plan?
00:18:21 --> 00:18:26 He literally said in his presidential debate with Vice President Harris that
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 he didn't have a plan. He had concepts when it came to health care.
00:18:30 --> 00:18:35 And he didn't even know, he didn't even recognize a box of Cheerios when he
00:18:35 --> 00:18:40 was trying to, you know, talk about economics, right? And sat on the table.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:47 Why do you think his messaging convinces people the opposite,
00:18:47 --> 00:18:51 that he does have plans? because some of those have,
00:18:52 --> 00:18:58 Trump is a marketing genius. He knows how to piggyback off of the work of Democrats
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 and make it seem like he's projecting a strong economy.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:05 He doesn't have a concept of a plan because the plan is already in place.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:07 The economy is doing well.
00:19:08 --> 00:19:09 The stock market is doing great.
00:19:10 --> 00:19:14 So if he just continues with those policies, we're going to do great.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:19 And those are just like he did in his first term. He had eight years of economic growth.
00:19:20 --> 00:19:24 Now he's going to inherit four years of economic growth from a pandemic.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 So all he has to do is simply continue that.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 And what he's going to do is he's going to have his people either fleece the
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 Treasury Department with these tax cuts.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:38 And then he's going to have his people, you know, his investigators go in and
00:19:38 --> 00:19:45 investigate and try to relitigate 2020 to see where he where he where he won
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 at when it was his administration that said he lost.
00:19:48 --> 00:19:53 So Trump is just going to continue the economic policies that got us to where
00:19:53 --> 00:19:55 we are, take credit for it.
00:19:55 --> 00:20:00 And then he's just going to cause chaos and do whatever is expedient for this
00:20:00 --> 00:20:04 non global. You know, Trump is not a globalist.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:08 So he's doing everything that he can against being a globalist.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 And that's why he's so close to Putin. That's why he likes Edgerton.
00:20:12 --> 00:20:16 That's why he likes all of these right wing people who are against globalism.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:22 Because they think that, you know, they think that their idea and their ideologies
00:20:22 --> 00:20:25 are what should be at the forefront because they have this idea that they created
00:20:25 --> 00:20:29 everything and everybody else is just eating at the trough because of them when
00:20:29 --> 00:20:30 we know that's not correct.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 So, you know, I don't think that Trump is going to be able to do the things
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 that he wants, that he thinks that he wants to do.
00:20:38 --> 00:20:40 And his base is going to turn on him. That's my prediction.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:45 Eight years ago, you played a major role in organizing the Women's March.
00:20:46 --> 00:20:51 To protest the election of President Trump. Have you been involved in any similar
00:20:51 --> 00:20:54 action after this year's election? And if not, why not?
00:20:55 --> 00:20:59 No, I'm not involved in any marches this year because we told people,
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 you know, we begged people to come out.
00:21:02 --> 00:21:07 I really believe that this election was not won by Donald Trump,
00:21:07 --> 00:21:09 but was lost by the Democrats.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:17 And I feel like that, you know, I've already put in the work and America chose who they wanted to have.
00:21:17 --> 00:21:20 So I'm going to let America find out what they got.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 I don't feel the need to participate
00:21:24 --> 00:21:30 and comment and do any free labor anymore in the political field to protest
00:21:30 --> 00:21:34 anything because Trump is trying
00:21:34 --> 00:21:41 to present himself as he's not the strong man that he is, but he is.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:44 And we're going to find out in just a few days how
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 much how chaotic it's going to be and it's going to be like you
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 know a repeat of his of his previous four
00:21:51 --> 00:21:55 years so we i mean we should be prepared for
00:21:55 --> 00:22:00 what he's going to try to do and i think that i don't think anything can top
00:22:00 --> 00:22:06 the women's march of 2017 that was just lightning in the bottle that was really
00:22:06 --> 00:22:11 lightning in the bottle yeah yeah i mean that was that was a historic moment
00:22:11 --> 00:22:12 you know it was right there.
00:22:14 --> 00:22:17 You know when you think about the march on washington you think about the million
00:22:17 --> 00:22:23 man march the women's march is right up there if not bigger because it was it
00:22:23 --> 00:22:29 was all over the country and really all over the globe so every continent yeah
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33 so i mean that yeah you you can't top that but,
00:22:34 --> 00:22:45 I guess there was a result where Trump didn't get reelected at that time,
00:22:45 --> 00:22:49 but then four years after that, he's back.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:55 And, yeah, so I don't know if the energy is there.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 I've heard some people saying that they were going to have something the day
00:22:58 --> 00:23:04 before, But it's it's not really resonating in my network as far as people.
00:23:05 --> 00:23:10 And another big reason why I'm not participating is because of the way that,
00:23:10 --> 00:23:14 you know, the way that my relationship with the Women's March ended,
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 quite frankly, and how they treated the people who were there for first.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 They deliberately pushed us out deliberately.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:27 You know, it was it was just hard to keep that whole organization together.
00:23:28 --> 00:23:32 And the people that are there now, they don't even talk to the people who founded
00:23:32 --> 00:23:34 it. So there's no way I will be participating.
00:23:35 --> 00:23:37 Like they come to DC quite often.
00:23:37 --> 00:23:42 The same, some of the same people that were there for you, one woman that was
00:23:42 --> 00:23:43 there four years ago is still there.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:49 She's the black face of the Women's March. And there's no, there's no reaching out to me.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:54 There's no, let's talk about this or anything. So I don't deal with the Women's
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 March at all. Yeah, I got you.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:01 So that leads me to this question. Many black women have publicly said that
00:24:01 --> 00:24:05 they were checking out and focusing on self-care after the election.
00:24:06 --> 00:24:12 What have you done or what are you doing to achieve some sort of peace for yourself?
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 I just became a grandmother, so I'm spending a lot of time with my grandmother.
00:24:17 --> 00:24:21 I mean, my granddaughter, which is very therapeutic.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:25 But, you know, I think that building community is going to be really important
00:24:25 --> 00:24:30 over the next four years because we're not going to be able to depend on our
00:24:30 --> 00:24:34 leaders for any kind of guidance. We're not going to be able to depend on our government.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:39 We don't even really have a government at this point. And it's like the people
00:24:39 --> 00:24:43 that we've seen in position, they've been very disappointing.
00:24:43 --> 00:24:48 So it's going to be important for us to build community off of social media.
00:24:49 --> 00:24:53 Build community with like, you know, through other lanes and other avenues,
00:24:53 --> 00:24:59 because we're seeing such a huge shift in how we organize and how we are able
00:24:59 --> 00:25:06 to communicate that we have to find other avenues to be able to keep our community safe.
00:25:06 --> 00:25:11 And keep our communities engaged and also keep, I mean, because most of the
00:25:11 --> 00:25:12 92% know that we got to vote.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:17 But as far as being an advocate and being in the streets, I don't think that
00:25:17 --> 00:25:22 that's having an opinion about what Trump is doing, having discussions and conversation.
00:25:22 --> 00:25:26 I don't think that that's going to be something that's high on the list of most
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 Black women who voted in this election.
00:25:29 --> 00:25:34 We're more interested in building community around each other and making sure
00:25:34 --> 00:25:41 that we are working and taking care of our families, because that's what the struggle is going to be.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:45 It's going to be a struggle for us to stay afloat.
00:25:45 --> 00:25:51 And it's going to be more important that we focus on our well-being than politics
00:25:51 --> 00:25:56 at this point, because we're going to see the same things that we saw four years ago, the same outrage.
00:25:57 --> 00:26:00 Trump is going to be outrageous every chance he gets.
00:26:00 --> 00:26:03 And I just don't think it's worth the energy because he's
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 a lot of bluster a lot of hot air and it's
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 just not worth it's not worth the energy to get worked up
00:26:09 --> 00:26:11 at the at the nonsense and chaos that he's gonna
00:26:11 --> 00:26:15 cause because he definitely has
00:26:15 --> 00:26:20 a strategy you know and his strategy worked his strategy was to pick off black
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 people so that he could win and he did that so he has people in art and then
00:26:25 --> 00:26:30 black community that rock with him and it's like it's It's no need in talking
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 to these people because you can't change their minds.
00:26:33 --> 00:26:38 They believe everything that he is the only person that is smart enough or savvy
00:26:38 --> 00:26:40 enough or witty enough to figure things out.
00:26:40 --> 00:26:43 So we're going to let them have it, let them do their thing.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:46 Meanwhile, we'll be building community offline somewhere else.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:53 So over the last couple of years, the term intersectionality has become more
00:26:53 --> 00:26:56 prevalent in the discussion of activism.
00:26:56 --> 00:27:02 As someone who has had to live an intersectional life as a black woman in America,
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 how much work needs to be done towards
00:27:05 --> 00:27:11 American Americans understanding intersectionality and its importance?
00:27:12 --> 00:27:18 Well, I think that after the last election results, the term intersectionality
00:27:18 --> 00:27:22 does not have as much of the bite that it used to have.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:29 It's not very much accepted in circles where Black women are having conversations
00:27:29 --> 00:27:34 because we understand that no one is looking out for us but us.
00:27:34 --> 00:27:40 There's no other demographic that's going to embrace our struggles and listen
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 to us. And that's another reason why black women are saying we're sitting this
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 out because we've been telling y'all for how many years?
00:27:48 --> 00:27:52 400 years what white supremacy is. And it's like, you don't believe us.
00:27:53 --> 00:27:58 It seems like people are okay with casual racism and they don't understand how
00:27:58 --> 00:28:04 much black women feel that and go through that and are affected by that.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:09 And that's why we're always saying, you know, we're always warning people what
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 the problems of racism are.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 And it's like they people don't believe us.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:17 They really don't believe us. Other demographics don't believe us.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:19 So now is their turn to find out.
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 That's how I feel. That's really how I feel.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:29 I understand exactly what you're saying as far as allyship goes.
00:28:31 --> 00:28:39 But you until you go to another realm, you are a black woman in America.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:46 So even if you're not part of a quote unquote movement, you still are a black woman.
00:28:47 --> 00:28:56 And so what do you so I guess you answer the question as far as getting Americans to understand.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:04 And I guess my follow up is what what needs to be done to try to.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:08 Strengthen the 92 percent what needs to
00:29:08 --> 00:29:12 be done to actions need to be taken other
00:29:12 --> 00:29:15 demographics need to take need to listen to the
00:29:15 --> 00:29:18 framework that black women have set up and examples
00:29:18 --> 00:29:24 that black black women in leadership have set up and follow that i feel like
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 when black people are free and palestinians are free the whole world will be
00:29:28 --> 00:29:34 free and if we're not following them if we're If we're taking our cues from
00:29:34 --> 00:29:36 other people that don't understand the struggle,
00:29:36 --> 00:29:41 I'm talking about Black American women that have been through cattle slavery
00:29:41 --> 00:29:42 who still have the scars.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:49 If we're not taking their accounts into how we navigate white supremacy and
00:29:49 --> 00:29:53 this government that we have that's under white supremacy and white nationalism,
00:29:54 --> 00:30:01 then other communities are not going to be able to navigate a movement, for example.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 You know what I mean? They're not going to be the Fannie Lou Hamers of the world.
00:30:04 --> 00:30:09 They're not, you know, they're not going to be the soldier on the truce of the
00:30:09 --> 00:30:14 world because they're not understanding where this opposition comes from.
00:30:14 --> 00:30:18 We understand that we live it and we breathe it. And it's like people are not listening.
00:30:19 --> 00:30:24 They're dismissing it when those same tenements that the same tenements of the
00:30:24 --> 00:30:28 1920 Tulsa race riot are still here in our society.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:33 And if you're not listening to us and how you navigate that and how you combat
00:30:33 --> 00:30:37 it, then what's the point of us still being interceptional?
00:30:37 --> 00:30:42 I don't think that there's a reason. There's a need, but we need to save our own communities.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:51 Because other communities are not going to back us up when we're the ones that paved the way.
00:30:51 --> 00:30:57 It's as if people don't realize that Black Americans paved the way for everything,
00:30:57 --> 00:30:59 everything in this country.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:04 The reason why we have immigration is because Black Americans and the Civil Rights Act.
00:31:04 --> 00:31:07 The reason why women can vote, you know what I'm saying? The reason why we make
00:31:07 --> 00:31:12 a difference in our homes is because of Black women. And we just don't get the credit.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:19 We're still vilified in public, you know, and we're still called baby mamas and all this nonsense.
00:31:20 --> 00:31:25 We're not acknowledged as the intelligent beings that we are.
00:31:25 --> 00:31:28 And that's real old and people are tired of it.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:34 Because the women that you mentioned, Fannie Lou and Sojourner,
00:31:34 --> 00:31:37 and I'll throw in Ella Baker and Bell Hooks.
00:31:37 --> 00:31:46 So it's more they they embrace more of their blackness than their femininity
00:31:46 --> 00:31:50 when it came to activism because of what you highlighted.
00:31:51 --> 00:31:57 Is that more or less the direction we should go? So as a matter of fact,
00:31:57 --> 00:31:58 let me let me just say this.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:01 Let me ask this question this way over the next four years.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:06 Where would what would you like to see black people do to strengthen their political
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 position and increase their political voice?
00:32:09 --> 00:32:13 I would like to see what what the only thing that would work for black people
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 is that we organize massive boy boycotts.
00:32:17 --> 00:32:20 That's what if anything is going to work, it's not going to be protesting is
00:32:20 --> 00:32:26 going to be boycotts. And if we're not using our dollars to send a political
00:32:26 --> 00:32:30 message, we're not going to be effective in this billionaire class of governance.
00:32:31 --> 00:32:39 So let me let me ask you this, because that's been one of the tools that we've
00:32:39 --> 00:32:46 kind of abandoned because we are so intertwined with the economy.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:54 Right. But Walmart, for example, Walmart has decided, well, we're not going to do DEI no more.
00:32:55 --> 00:32:58 Costco says, yeah, we're going to keep this going.
00:33:00 --> 00:33:04 But there's more Walmarts than there are Costco's.
00:33:04 --> 00:33:09 How can, in a pragmatic sense,
00:33:10 --> 00:33:19 how can we effectively boycott anything when we've become so dependent on...
00:33:22 --> 00:33:28 These companies to do our basic stuff. Everybody gets packages from Amazon.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:31 Everybody. I stop using Amazon.
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37 So what do you, so you, you strictly, I mean, how do you, how do you.
00:33:37 --> 00:33:40 I go to the store and get the stuff that I need.
00:33:40 --> 00:33:44 It's going to take planning. It's going to take research. It's going to take leadership.
00:33:44 --> 00:33:45 It's not going to be easy, but
00:33:45 --> 00:33:49 we have to do it. You think the Montgomery boys bus boycotts were easy.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:55 They weren't, but people have to draw a line in the sand and decide what are they standing for?
00:33:56 --> 00:34:00 And it's a lot of people that won't do that. Unfortunately, it's only a few
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03 that will. And that's why we are so ineffective.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:08 So what would, well, what would
00:34:08 --> 00:34:15 be the people were willing to make that sacrifice in 1955 in Mississippi?
00:34:15 --> 00:34:20 I want to say it was in 72 and I might be wrong.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 Wrong on the year or whatever, but the citizens of Port Gibson,
00:34:23 --> 00:34:30 Mississippi, the black citizens decided they wanted to do like a one week boycott.
00:34:30 --> 00:34:38 And the way that they did it was that they didn't say, we're not going shopping.
00:34:38 --> 00:34:46 What they did was they somehow found through enough banks to get $2 bills.
00:34:46 --> 00:34:51 And all they used was $2 bills during that time period.
00:34:52 --> 00:34:57 To purchase anything. And it sent a message to the city of Port Gibson that
00:34:57 --> 00:35:01 it's like, this is the economic impact of black people in Port Gibson.
00:35:01 --> 00:35:05 And they're showing us because they're only using $2 bills.
00:35:05 --> 00:35:10 And now when you go to Port Gibson, it's like, is there any white folks in Port Gibson, right?
00:35:10 --> 00:35:13 Because they, you know, Claiborne County, they
00:35:13 --> 00:35:16 run everything down here and and
00:35:16 --> 00:35:20 they had and they're doing well because you know
00:35:20 --> 00:35:23 some things happened like they built that
00:35:23 --> 00:35:26 nuclear plant down there and everything else so their their economic
00:35:26 --> 00:35:31 situation has gotten better even with the black leadership where
00:35:31 --> 00:35:40 how do we in this day and age get people to make the sacrifice that those people
00:35:40 --> 00:35:46 in montgomery that those people in port gibson and be willing to do in order
00:35:46 --> 00:35:50 to be effective in a boycott?
00:35:50 --> 00:35:52 Do we target one particular thing?
00:35:52 --> 00:35:58 Do we try to do like the sisters try to do after the election and say,
00:35:58 --> 00:36:03 okay, this is going to be your Black Friday Christmas list, only shop at these particular stores?
00:36:03 --> 00:36:10 How would you envision an effective boycott to send a message? We need to organize.
00:36:11 --> 00:36:15 We need to decide on what it is that we're boycotting and then we need to organize.
00:36:15 --> 00:36:19 It's not that they, like we always say, it's not that the other side is better
00:36:19 --> 00:36:23 than us. They just out-organize us. It's just as simple as that.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:29 If we decide that, for example, we're going to cut cable off for a week,
00:36:29 --> 00:36:34 we could change the whole narrative, but we won't do that because we have to
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 let people know that boycotts are sacrifices.
00:36:37 --> 00:36:43 And we have to find something that we can sacrifice for a long period of time
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 and we can organize around. Yeah.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:52 Yeah. It was easy for people to, I remember, I can't remember,
00:36:52 --> 00:36:58 I guess it was 2020 when we, everybody posted like something black,
00:36:59 --> 00:37:05 you know, a black image, you know, just a blank black image on our screens to
00:37:05 --> 00:37:09 send a message about how we felt with George Floyd.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:17 But yeah, I think one of the things I, you know, was done.
00:37:17 --> 00:37:20 Jesse Jackson senior tried to get,
00:37:21 --> 00:37:24 black folks to get more engaged in buying stocks.
00:37:25 --> 00:37:31 And I remember they had a big boycott because MCI wouldn't unionize.
00:37:31 --> 00:37:37 And so he had so many shares. So he showed up at the shareholders meeting.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:44 And challenged MCI at that point. Now, of course, that guy ended up going to
00:37:44 --> 00:37:49 jail, Bernie Evers, for taking money off the talk and lying about how much MCI was worth.
00:37:51 --> 00:37:56 But that didn't even seem to really generate stuff. I bought stock.
00:37:56 --> 00:38:01 I remember we were talking about what was going on in Columbia with the farm
00:38:01 --> 00:38:03 workers that was dealing with Coca-Cola.
00:38:05 --> 00:38:08 And it was like, well, we need to boycott Coca-Cola.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:13 I said, or you can buy stock in Coca-Cola and have a say-so as a shareholder.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 And she was like, well, you're not going to the national meetings.
00:38:17 --> 00:38:19 I said, no, but they send me a ballot.
00:38:19 --> 00:38:23 And in my ballot, I write, they ask shareholders to mark comments.
00:38:24 --> 00:38:28 And in my comments, I said, we need to treat the farmers that create the product
00:38:28 --> 00:38:30 better. We need to pay them.
00:38:30 --> 00:38:34 We need to make sure that there's no human rights abuses on the farms,
00:38:34 --> 00:38:38 all that kind of stuff. So it's documented, right?
00:38:39 --> 00:38:46 And so, I mean, my little shares weren't going to, I mean, you know,
00:38:46 --> 00:38:54 but, but I felt that that was an effective way to continue to highlight what was going on.
00:38:56 --> 00:38:59 But again, I think that that goes back to what you're saying.
00:38:59 --> 00:39:02 We have to really, really organize and commit, even if we do,
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06 if we don't do a boycott, we do a buy in, right?
00:39:06 --> 00:39:13 You still got to organize and, you know, we were kind of talking offline about
00:39:13 --> 00:39:16 commitment, right? Mm-hmm.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:22 Where do you see, and we'll close out with that,
00:39:23 --> 00:39:35 where do you see the leadership to push ideas like that and to make the commitment to organize?
00:39:35 --> 00:39:38 Where is that leadership going to come from in our community?
00:39:39 --> 00:39:41 Well, you know, America is about
00:39:41 --> 00:39:47 capitalism. So the people with the most money have the bigger voices.
00:39:47 --> 00:39:54 But in our communities, those bigger voices are tied to a whole bunch of other
00:39:54 --> 00:39:58 things that, and, you know, I'm talking about like the,
00:39:59 --> 00:40:04 I don't like to just say Jay-Z, but for example, he's a billionaire.
00:40:04 --> 00:40:06 I'm talking about the billionaire class in our communities.
00:40:06 --> 00:40:08 It's going to take some leadership from them.
00:40:08 --> 00:40:13 It really is going to take some leadership from them and being able to talk
00:40:13 --> 00:40:18 amongst the big boys, because if our community isn't organized,
00:40:18 --> 00:40:21 if we're not looking out for each other, we won't have one.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:25 And I think the goal in America is to make sure that Black people are not progressing.
00:40:26 --> 00:40:28 And America is doing a very good job at that.
00:40:29 --> 00:40:34 They're doing a very good job at that. And I think that we need to be more focused
00:40:34 --> 00:40:37 on solutions and community.
00:40:37 --> 00:40:42 We have to be more focused on solutions and community. And people have to listen to each other.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:47 You know, oftentimes in organizing, we want perfection.
00:40:47 --> 00:40:51 We don't want to cause harm. You know, and we want to make sure that all of
00:40:51 --> 00:40:57 our systems are centering the most vulnerable amongst us.
00:40:57 --> 00:41:00 But sometimes we're going to need to take bold action.
00:41:01 --> 00:41:06 And bold action is going to have to come from people who have the power to do that. Yeah.
00:41:07 --> 00:41:13 All right. Well, sister summers, as always, it's good talking to you in this
00:41:13 --> 00:41:16 format and offline as well.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:25 You have you have a business. How can people reach out to you to to solicit
00:41:25 --> 00:41:33 your services and to reach out to you just to do what you're doing now, be a guest or just,
00:41:34 --> 00:41:38 you know, just just to reach out to you? How can people do that?
00:41:38 --> 00:41:42 You can follow me on social media. Well, yeah, social media.
00:41:43 --> 00:41:48 Ianta underscore Summers on Instagram. You can follow me at Summers Public Affairs on Instagram.
00:41:49 --> 00:41:53 You can also reach me through my website, SummersPublicAffairs.com.
00:41:53 --> 00:42:00 And you can email me at Ianta, I-A-N-T-A at SummersPublicAffairs.com.
00:42:00 --> 00:42:07 Well, I have to admit, I'm a little jealous because you are something that I don't know I'll be.
00:42:07 --> 00:42:12 My child has not made the commitment to be a parent.
00:42:12 --> 00:42:18 So I don't know if I'll ever be a grandparent, but I'm more envious of the grandchild
00:42:18 --> 00:42:22 because that grandchild's got somebody that's really, really special.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:30 And they're going to have a lot of fun with you as a grandparent. I believe so.
00:42:32 --> 00:42:36 But also, too, I just want to say this publicly.
00:42:36 --> 00:42:44 I think that you are a light that needs to be illuminated more.
00:42:44 --> 00:42:48 I think that you have a very, very powerful voice in this community.
00:42:49 --> 00:42:55 And I hope that you being on this podcast helps you elevate that voice.
00:42:55 --> 00:43:03 But I think I think you really you really need to be your resource that needs
00:43:03 --> 00:43:06 to be utilized much more than than it is.
00:43:06 --> 00:43:13 And so I'm hoping that 2025 is that year that people catch on to that.
00:43:13 --> 00:43:19 I hope that you're, you know, everything that you want positive to happen happens to you.
00:43:20 --> 00:43:25 And I really appreciate the fact that you trust me enough to come on and talk
00:43:25 --> 00:43:30 about these things on the podcast so thank you for for coming on I appreciate
00:43:30 --> 00:43:34 my pleasure I hope that we can stay in touch thank you so much for your kind
00:43:34 --> 00:43:38 words all right all right guys and we're gonna catch y'all on the other side.
00:43:39 --> 00:43:57 Music.
00:43:57 --> 00:44:03 All right. And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Dr. Renee Carr.
00:44:03 --> 00:44:08 Dr. Renee Carr is the trusted confidant to elected officials and high impact CEOs.
00:44:09 --> 00:44:15 She applies psychological science, business acumen and human understanding to
00:44:15 --> 00:44:20 produce change at the state and national level. With expertise in human thinking,
00:44:20 --> 00:44:23 behaviors, emotions, and communications, Dr.
00:44:24 --> 00:44:28 Carr advises leaders on the solutions to improve their government's economy,
00:44:28 --> 00:44:30 culture, and impact on citizens.
00:44:31 --> 00:44:34 She also provides insight on the likelihood of future events,
00:44:35 --> 00:44:39 strategies to prevent future problems, and solutions for current problems or
00:44:39 --> 00:44:44 crises. As a refreshing voice of honesty and intellect, Dr.
00:44:44 --> 00:44:48 Carr attracts listeners and viewers who want real, frank, and smart information
00:44:48 --> 00:44:53 to better understand social issues, critical news, and current events.
00:44:54 --> 00:44:59 Dr. Carr has become a trusted source that audiences can repeatedly turn to for
00:44:59 --> 00:45:01 unbiased explanation and advice.
00:45:01 --> 00:45:07 As an award-winning psychologist and entrepreneur, she has received numerous
00:45:07 --> 00:45:12 recognitions for innovative use of psychology to produce significant outcomes,
00:45:12 --> 00:45:15 change and achievements for her clients.
00:45:15 --> 00:45:20 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have on this
00:45:20 --> 00:45:23 podcast again, Dr. Renee Carr.
00:45:25 --> 00:45:35 Music.
00:45:34 --> 00:45:39 All right, Dr. Renee Carr, the problem solver. How are you doing, ma'am?
00:45:40 --> 00:45:45 I'm fine. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you, too. It's good to hear you.
00:45:46 --> 00:45:48 Glad that you could come back on the program.
00:45:50 --> 00:45:54 And this is going to be interesting because the day that this episode drops,
00:45:54 --> 00:45:56 it's going to be Inauguration Day.
00:45:57 --> 00:46:00 And so one of
00:46:00 --> 00:46:07 the things because you you have a unique practice where you you're a psychologist
00:46:07 --> 00:46:12 but you also do political consulting and that's always been fascinating with
00:46:12 --> 00:46:17 me as far as you're concerned and as i told you before i wish i had known you
00:46:17 --> 00:46:19 when i was elected probably Like,
00:46:19 --> 00:46:26 but what I want to do is do like we normally do and start off with a quote.
00:46:27 --> 00:46:28 And so this is your quote.
00:46:30 --> 00:46:37 Compromise where you can, where you can't don't, even if everyone is telling
00:46:37 --> 00:46:39 you that something wrong is something right.
00:46:40 --> 00:46:43 I didn't mean your quote like you said it. I was just saying.
00:46:43 --> 00:46:46 OK, I was thinking I would say that. I don't remember saying.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:54 All right. Do you want me to state it again? No. So you want me to do what?
00:46:55 --> 00:46:56 Respond to it? Yes, ma'am.
00:46:57 --> 00:47:04 I think that being able to have integrity in what you say and what you do is very essential,
00:47:04 --> 00:47:12 especially in politics, when the lives and livelihoods of individuals are resting
00:47:12 --> 00:47:16 on you, just doing what you say you're going to do. and transparency.
00:47:17 --> 00:47:22 So I do agree, do what you believe to be right, even if everyone else says it's
00:47:22 --> 00:47:27 wrong, because what everyone else is saying is wrong may mean that it's wrong
00:47:27 --> 00:47:30 because it won't benefit them or their agenda.
00:47:31 --> 00:47:35 Yeah. Yeah. You know, and that seems like a pretty simple concept,
00:47:35 --> 00:47:40 but in this day and age, yeah, that's not necessarily what's going on.
00:47:40 --> 00:47:43 But and I was listening
00:47:43 --> 00:47:46 to your your last episode and that
00:47:46 --> 00:47:50 was that was very fascinating about the personalities
00:47:50 --> 00:47:55 that connect with submitting to
00:47:55 --> 00:48:01 oh the psychology of submission oh thank you yeah yeah so I said that quote
00:48:01 --> 00:48:06 kind of goes along with what you were talking about in your last episode so
00:48:06 --> 00:48:12 this new feature i've added and and i got the idea i'm in this thing called meetup,
00:48:13 --> 00:48:16 okay i don't know if you've heard of that but it's it's i've heard of those
00:48:16 --> 00:48:24 yeah so there's a group called crossing party lines and so they threw out like this question.
00:48:25 --> 00:48:31 Questionnaire as sort of an icebreaker for folks if they want to get into political
00:48:31 --> 00:48:33 discussions without starting a fight.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:39 So I said, yeah, I think I'll throw that on my guests and see how they respond to it.
00:48:40 --> 00:48:45 So what I need you to do is give me a number between one and 20.
00:48:46 --> 00:48:49 17. Okay. So this is your question.
00:48:50 --> 00:48:57 What's something about people who see the world differently than you that you've come to appreciate?
00:48:58 --> 00:49:02 Well, I don't know if that would be a fair question because I'm a psychologist.
00:49:02 --> 00:49:07 So I would believe that their perception of the world,
00:49:08 --> 00:49:12 you know, the cognitive triad self, others in the future is based off of their
00:49:12 --> 00:49:20 experiences and external behaviors and maybe past trauma or their mental resilience.
00:49:22 --> 00:49:29 So I appreciate a lot of things with almost everybody so I don't think that
00:49:29 --> 00:49:32 was a good question for me because I don't know if I could I can't really separate
00:49:32 --> 00:49:37 myself from being a psychologist yeah you know and that's that's that's interesting
00:49:37 --> 00:49:41 because you know I know that,
00:49:41 --> 00:49:48 you're trained to really really listen and to hone in and and to be accepting.
00:49:49 --> 00:49:52 But you know have you have you
00:49:52 --> 00:49:55 had a situation where it's like oh no
00:49:55 --> 00:49:57 I can't I can't deal with that and and how did
00:49:57 --> 00:50:00 you navigate around that okay so
00:50:00 --> 00:50:06 let me piggyback on what you just said and then I'll think of a of a difference
00:50:06 --> 00:50:12 of a think of a situation yes I am a psychologist by training but individual
00:50:12 --> 00:50:18 personalities and purposes who they are is what attracts them to their professions.
00:50:19 --> 00:50:24 So yes, I'm a psychologist by training or have a license and the title,
00:50:25 --> 00:50:29 but it was always my personality. Even when I was younger, people would always
00:50:29 --> 00:50:32 say, oh, you were always asking me, well, how do you feel and what's wrong?
00:50:32 --> 00:50:35 So that was always who I was.
00:50:35 --> 00:50:43 But what I could say, maybe as far as the recent election with me just being Renee and not Dr.
00:50:43 --> 00:50:50 Carr, it has been very intolerable to see people, media,
00:50:51 --> 00:50:58 news, insist that it was the price of eggs of why Kamala did not win the election,
00:50:58 --> 00:51:02 instead of just being honest and saying it was about racism and sexism.
00:51:03 --> 00:51:09 And that part is really blows my mind to the level of how people don't want
00:51:09 --> 00:51:13 to see what has become so glaringly obvious.
00:51:14 --> 00:51:19 Yeah. So let me, I was going to ask you, let me, let me jump to this question
00:51:19 --> 00:51:25 then, since you said that, because I want to talk to you about America's racial backlash.
00:51:26 --> 00:51:31 Now I personally have seen four examples of this backlash, the election of Ronald
00:51:31 --> 00:51:36 Reagan, the formation of the Tea Party after the election of Barack Obama and
00:51:36 --> 00:51:37 the two Trump elections.
00:51:38 --> 00:51:43 So I have two questions. One, is this backlash psychological?
00:51:43 --> 00:51:47 And two, can anything be done to overcome it?
00:51:49 --> 00:51:55 The background is psychological when you think about the reason of why people
00:51:55 --> 00:52:02 have biases in their thinking, which is what causes racism along with learned behavior.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:08 But then you also have external variables that influence behavior that maintain
00:52:08 --> 00:52:11 racist behaviors and systems of racism,
00:52:12 --> 00:52:16 meaning that if I can show that the less black or the less brown and the more
00:52:16 --> 00:52:19 white I am, then I can receive more benefits.
00:52:19 --> 00:52:26 So then I am reinforced to have racist-based thinking or encouragement because
00:52:26 --> 00:52:29 I'm rewarded for being different.
00:52:29 --> 00:52:33 And then that then gives me a mindset of, well, then this is right.
00:52:33 --> 00:52:38 And anything that goes against me not having preferential treatment or societal
00:52:38 --> 00:52:44 privilege does mean that it's an injustice to me. And so I think that it's a cycle.
00:52:44 --> 00:52:50 I think it is a racial backlash because of the the thought process that go into
00:52:50 --> 00:52:55 creating and maintaining racism and also the systems that allow it to continue.
00:52:55 --> 00:52:59 And I think the only thing that will change it are individuals,
00:52:59 --> 00:53:05 as you said, you mentioned, you listened to the All the King's Men episode from yesterday.
00:53:06 --> 00:53:11 What would actually change it is for people to just be willing to be honest,
00:53:11 --> 00:53:15 even if it means they are going to lose a preferential treatment.
00:53:15 --> 00:53:22 And because of a lack mindset of a supremacy mindset, which only comes from
00:53:22 --> 00:53:24 a lack mindset, by the way,
00:53:24 --> 00:53:29 I think if people were to have more of an abundance mindset and a community
00:53:29 --> 00:53:33 mindset, rather than an individualistic society like we have in America,
00:53:33 --> 00:53:38 then that would be the first thing that we could help to eradicate these thinkings
00:53:38 --> 00:53:39 or to avoid a racial backlash.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:42 But then it would also have to then.
00:53:43 --> 00:53:50 Before that, acknowledge and not minimize that there is a racist and racial
00:53:50 --> 00:53:54 influence on how our country is today and how people have benefited today,
00:53:54 --> 00:54:00 even if it was 100 years ago when their last ancestor was a part of the slave
00:54:00 --> 00:54:03 trade or enslavement or oppression of other individuals.
00:54:03 --> 00:54:08 So first, you have to acknowledge it without apologizing, just acknowledge that
00:54:08 --> 00:54:14 the truth is the truth, and then recognize how you can look at the forensics
00:54:14 --> 00:54:16 of it and see how one individual,
00:54:17 --> 00:54:24 one family, one community, or one race has predictably become more influential
00:54:24 --> 00:54:28 or become more economically stable because of the oppression of others,
00:54:28 --> 00:54:32 and then recognize that others have been in poverty because of that same situation.
00:54:32 --> 00:54:35 So then if you recognize the truth of what has actually happened,
00:54:36 --> 00:54:38 and then you can then do a, you know,
00:54:38 --> 00:54:42 military after action review, and then how can we now fix it now that we know
00:54:42 --> 00:54:46 what happened and where the injustices and inequities have occurred,
00:54:46 --> 00:54:50 and then we can more accurately identify and then correct them.
00:54:50 --> 00:54:55 But right now, many people are benefiting so much that they don't want to acknowledge
00:54:55 --> 00:54:58 the historical truth and the present consequences.
00:54:59 --> 00:55:04 Yeah, you know, it's so fascinating to me.
00:55:04 --> 00:55:13 You know, when I was elected and, you know, it's been like 25 odd years ago
00:55:13 --> 00:55:19 now, it was like the move was reconciliation, right?
00:55:19 --> 00:55:26 It was like trying to get to that step of, you know, reconciling the differences
00:55:26 --> 00:55:29 between blacks and whites in America and all that.
00:55:30 --> 00:55:35 But now it seems like we've regressed to the point now we're not even we got
00:55:35 --> 00:55:41 to go back to acknowledgement before we because you before you can reconcile, you got to acknowledge.
00:55:42 --> 00:55:45 And and it seems like now we've regressed.
00:55:45 --> 00:55:50 Do you do you have that same observation? I think that.
00:55:51 --> 00:55:57 The acknowledgement now that we look at what happened with the re-election of
00:55:57 --> 00:56:02 Trump, despite known behaviors that he has done,
00:56:02 --> 00:56:06 the first time everyone didn't really know so much, but the second time everyone
00:56:06 --> 00:56:10 did know and still thought that he was the better candidate than an actually
00:56:10 --> 00:56:13 qualified elected official.
00:56:13 --> 00:56:20 So I think that all that really revealed is that there was a previous attempt for reconciliation,
00:56:20 --> 00:56:26 but because it was done legally rather than in the hearts and minds of individuals,
00:56:26 --> 00:56:33 when the individuals who thought that they were forced to reconcile then perceived
00:56:33 --> 00:56:34 that they were losing, again,
00:56:34 --> 00:56:40 their preferential treatment and that they were no longer having an equal say
00:56:40 --> 00:56:45 and others having less say, Then I think that when you it continued,
00:56:45 --> 00:56:51 despite having the laws or legislation or policies to help promote equity and
00:56:51 --> 00:56:57 racial reconciliation, when someone who came along allowed them to see that,
00:56:57 --> 00:57:03 no, we can be blatantly racist and resume our power,
00:57:03 --> 00:57:10 then that just uncovered what was already there that had been suppressed. Yeah.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:18 All right. So we are in the middle of the confirmation process for the next administration.
00:57:18 --> 00:57:23 On a recent, I guess, bonus episode of your podcast, Politics and Psychology,
00:57:24 --> 00:57:29 you talked about confirmation bias and how it is currently being applied in these hearings.
00:57:30 --> 00:57:37 Explain to the listeners what that is and how detrimental it could be to the political process.
00:57:38 --> 00:57:44 So confirmation bias is a psychological term that explains behavior in decision making for humans,
00:57:45 --> 00:57:50 meaning that if I already have a desired outcome that I want to prove,
00:57:50 --> 00:57:57 I will only selectively look for and receive or accept information that proves
00:57:57 --> 00:58:02 or confirms what I'm already biased to wanting to have or wanting to prove.
00:58:02 --> 00:58:08 And also, I'm also going to be biased by excluding information that will go
00:58:08 --> 00:58:11 against the desired outcome that I want.
00:58:11 --> 00:58:14 And so with the confirmation hearings, you're seeing
00:58:14 --> 00:58:19 confirmation bias because individuals in Congress are only looking for information
00:58:19 --> 00:58:26 to say that they had a win or could highlight a positive while excluding the
00:58:26 --> 00:58:33 very glaring points of lack of competence and lack of character and lack of qualifications.
00:58:33 --> 00:58:37 And they're doing that to then just justify, yeah, well, I can vote for the
00:58:37 --> 00:58:41 person that I found out how many pushups they could do or we've all had affairs.
00:58:41 --> 00:58:45 So that means we shouldn't worry about character or this is the secretary of
00:58:45 --> 00:58:49 defense and you don't really have to be in the military or you don't have to
00:58:49 --> 00:58:50 have any real background to do that.
00:58:51 --> 00:58:55 And so by you minimizing or excluding facts, that's the same thing as you being
00:58:55 --> 00:58:59 biased in your confirmation of what you already want, which is you already just
00:58:59 --> 00:59:04 want to confirm whoever you want to confirm for whatever your other agenda is.
00:59:05 --> 00:59:08 Yeah, because if you try to simplify it like that, the U.S.
00:59:09 --> 00:59:14 Constitution says that to be on the Supreme Court, all you have to be is a citizen.
00:59:15 --> 00:59:17 But, you know, it would...
00:59:17 --> 00:59:21 You know, just common sense would say, it'd probably be good to have somebody
00:59:21 --> 00:59:26 that has a concept of the law and at least constitutional law, if nothing else, right?
00:59:26 --> 00:59:32 And it's also ironic and contradictory because then you also then can't say,
00:59:32 --> 00:59:36 well, if the person is a vice president of the United States,
00:59:37 --> 00:59:39 that she is automatically viewed as a DEI hire.
00:59:40 --> 00:59:44 So if you truly believe that there are no real qualifications other than being a U.S.
00:59:44 --> 00:59:48 Citizen to be on the Supreme Court or the Secretary of Defense,
00:59:48 --> 00:59:54 then why is it the only qualifications apply when it would exclude other individuals
00:59:54 --> 00:59:57 for having the opportunity that you desperately want?
00:59:57 --> 01:00:06 Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that because, you know, what my concern always has been,
01:00:06 --> 01:00:14 if I had a chance to be in the Senate, my concern is that I want people to be
01:00:14 --> 01:00:17 able to look the President of the United States in the eye and say, no.
01:00:18 --> 01:00:23 It's like, if the President wants to do something and you're the Secretary of
01:00:23 --> 01:00:28 Defense or the Secretary of Homeland Security or whatever, I want you to be
01:00:28 --> 01:00:30 able to look at the President and say, no, Mr.
01:00:30 --> 01:00:34 President, we can't do that or we shouldn't do that. And here's why.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:40 What I'm looking at as far as the qualifications with the people that have been
01:00:40 --> 01:00:45 appointed this time, because the first term he had people that said no, and he didn't like that.
01:00:45 --> 01:00:52 So now he's getting sycophants, you know, for lack of a better term.
01:00:52 --> 01:00:58 And, you know, that that's the most disqualifying thing to me out of all of
01:00:58 --> 01:01:05 that because, you know, when they asked Hexf if he would allow,
01:01:06 --> 01:01:12 the National Guard or the U.S. military to shoot at protesters and he couldn't
01:01:12 --> 01:01:14 give a definitive answer to that.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:22 That should have been a non-starter for not only Democrats, but Republicans as well.
01:01:22 --> 01:01:24 But yeah, that's, yeah.
01:01:26 --> 01:01:33 I agree. I agree. Yeah. But you also have to think about when you have a decision,
01:01:33 --> 01:01:37 it's what are your end goals or your end game.
01:01:37 --> 01:01:42 And so for Trump, his end game is ultimate power.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:47 And, you know, as he even said, having people who follow him as they did Hitler.
01:01:47 --> 01:01:52 So for him, you don't really need to be intelligent or have character or qualifications
01:01:52 --> 01:01:56 or even education, because that's what he cares about less.
01:01:57 --> 01:02:03 And he cares more about who can I manipulate, putting these positions who have at least a, you know,
01:02:04 --> 01:02:08 a first grade education, but more importantly, they're, they're so desperate
01:02:08 --> 01:02:13 for being, you know, in a, in a winning position that they'll do what I say.
01:02:14 --> 01:02:20 So you have, that's part of selection bias. So he truly had competent people in place.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:26 There would be an easier confirmation process, but he didn't really choose competent people.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:32 He chose individuals from whom he could benefit and control. Yeah.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:39 So if I use the catchphrase, desperation leads to despotism,
01:02:39 --> 01:02:42 would I be off the mark saying that?
01:02:42 --> 01:02:48 No, I don't think you'd be off the mark. But I think with Trump, it's more of...
01:02:50 --> 01:02:58 A narcissistic rage, less desperation, but a narcissistic rage because he,
01:02:58 --> 01:03:02 you know, through narcissism, believes that he was not lost,
01:03:02 --> 01:03:04 but that the election was stolen.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:10 And so because that insulted his ego, then he is now going to just do whatever
01:03:10 --> 01:03:17 he needs to do to enact his rage and regain power and in his own mind,
01:03:17 --> 01:03:22 compensate for what he feels was a loss or an injustice enacted against him.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:28 Yeah, I was thinking more of people rather than the individual.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:34 Right. The desperation of people leads to despotism because people are like
01:03:34 --> 01:03:41 you mentioned before, they lack something and they feel that in order to gain something,
01:03:42 --> 01:03:47 they need to attach to something or somebody like a like a Donald Trump.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:51 Yes, I agree. I agree. Yes, definitely. Especially when you consider that many
01:03:51 --> 01:03:57 of the people that he has nominated lost their own election campaigns.
01:03:57 --> 01:03:59 I'm going to do an episode on that as well.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:03 But many of them lost their own re-election campaigns and multiple losses.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:06 And so now they're desperate to have a win.
01:04:06 --> 01:04:11 And someone just gave them, you know, the ultimate DI didn't earn it.
01:04:11 --> 01:04:17 And so they're just given these positions despite not even winning in their own cities or states.
01:04:17 --> 01:04:20 Yeah. So they are desperate. Like, oh, yeah, sure.
01:04:21 --> 01:04:25 Yeah. And in the case of, you know, like Rubio, he wanted to be president.
01:04:26 --> 01:04:30 Christy Noem, she wanted to be vice president. So this was her consolation prize.
01:04:31 --> 01:04:36 Yeah, I feel you on that. There are many African-Americans who are disillusioned
01:04:36 --> 01:04:42 with the political process, some before the election and a few more after.
01:04:43 --> 01:04:47 What advice would you give them to help navigate that disillusionment?
01:04:48 --> 01:04:54 Well, I would say it is hurtful to think that we were making progress.
01:04:55 --> 01:04:58 It's hurtful to see the truth.
01:04:58 --> 01:05:03 But now that you see the truth, when someone shows you who they truly are,
01:05:03 --> 01:05:09 when the country shows you who we really are, then respond from a place of knowledge
01:05:09 --> 01:05:10 rather than depression,
01:05:11 --> 01:05:16 meaning that, okay, well, now that I see that any progress that will be made
01:05:16 --> 01:05:21 for my race will have to come from me and me not looking to a president,
01:05:21 --> 01:05:27 not even a Black president, but me looking to how can I and my community educate ourselves,
01:05:28 --> 01:05:33 equip and economically empower ourselves so that we do have more power and we
01:05:33 --> 01:05:38 can start with making smaller changes, whether it's just teaching our own children
01:05:38 --> 01:05:40 about real history that has not been whitewashed,
01:05:40 --> 01:05:47 whether it's collectively organizing to support the election of sheriffs in
01:05:47 --> 01:05:51 our own country or in our own state so that we can have,
01:05:51 --> 01:05:56 or in our own county, so that we can have more legal protection among the police.
01:05:56 --> 01:06:01 So start with what you can do and empower yourself to not rely on someone else
01:06:01 --> 01:06:07 to do something for you, when right now we can see that so much is being done to take away from you.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:12 So I'm going to ask you a political, philosophical question.
01:06:14 --> 01:06:19 So one of the one of the great debates in American history was Booker T.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:21 Washington versus W.B. DeBoer.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:28 Booker T. Washington felt that we needed to build our own institutions,
01:06:28 --> 01:06:31 our own communities, our own schools, everything.
01:06:32 --> 01:06:40 And as long as we were allowed to coexist, everything would be OK.
01:06:41 --> 01:06:48 And W.B. Du Bois was of the notion that we always needed to have the right to
01:06:48 --> 01:06:50 integrate if we chose to.
01:06:50 --> 01:06:57 And we shouldn't be denied the opportunities to go to white schools or to patronize
01:06:57 --> 01:07:03 white businesses or live in communities that weren't just black communities.
01:07:04 --> 01:07:11 Do you feel that which one do you think we're we're heading toward now?
01:07:11 --> 01:07:16 Do you think that we're leaning more toward what Booker T wanted,
01:07:16 --> 01:07:21 or are we still on the pathway to achieve what Du Bois wanted?
01:07:22 --> 01:07:27 I would say more of Du Bois only because there are so many successful black
01:07:27 --> 01:07:33 people who are already in industries and positions and communities that are not all black.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:38 And so I don't think that the solution would be to just stick to ourselves,
01:07:38 --> 01:07:43 because that also would then imply that all white people are bad and don't care
01:07:43 --> 01:07:44 about equity or equality.
01:07:44 --> 01:07:49 So I wouldn't say that, but also you have to think about when it comes to systemic
01:07:49 --> 01:07:54 racism, that if you had an all-Black community, an all-Black college,
01:07:54 --> 01:07:56 if you had Black Wall Street,
01:07:56 --> 01:08:00 then individuals who are threatened by that, who don't want you to also have
01:08:00 --> 01:08:04 power and wealth, you know, they have come in and just taken stuff.
01:08:04 --> 01:08:07 You can even burn down the buildings, burn down the communities.
01:08:08 --> 01:08:12 You can even look currently at University of Tennessee versus Tennessee State University,
01:08:12 --> 01:08:16 where they are distributing money that comes from the government to be distributed
01:08:16 --> 01:08:22 equally and then unequally giving it more to the predominantly white institution
01:08:22 --> 01:08:25 and withholding at significant levels,
01:08:25 --> 01:08:30 giving the black school at least 33 percent less of what they are entitled to.
01:08:30 --> 01:08:36 So I think that just to say that you only can go in one area or just only be
01:08:36 --> 01:08:43 with black people, the smartest move is to actually infiltrate and to make moves from the inside out.
01:08:44 --> 01:08:53 Yeah. And the altruistic side of me, Doc, wants to believe that we still are,
01:08:53 --> 01:08:57 you know, pursuing the boys strategy.
01:08:57 --> 01:09:00 And I would I would I would think that would be more.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:09 Comprehensive and healthy, but just listening to some of the discussion and
01:09:09 --> 01:09:14 maybe X and social media is a bad place to listen to people,
01:09:14 --> 01:09:18 but there seems to be some strength at gathering in,
01:09:19 --> 01:09:23 and I guess it's no different than in the 60s when people were being challenged.
01:09:24 --> 01:09:28 You know, Dr. King was making his moves and the civil rights movement was making
01:09:28 --> 01:09:30 their moves, But there was a segment,
01:09:31 --> 01:09:34 a loud segment that was like, no, this ain't going to work because these,
01:09:35 --> 01:09:40 you know, and especially after Medgar and Martin and Malcolm were assassinated,
01:09:40 --> 01:09:46 you know, there was this, yeah, no, we just need to protect ourselves and not
01:09:46 --> 01:09:48 worry about them because they don't care about us.
01:09:48 --> 01:09:52 And so that's that's the reason why I asked you that question,
01:09:52 --> 01:09:58 because, you know, you're you're an intellectual and you you're you're involved
01:09:58 --> 01:09:59 in in in the discussions.
01:10:00 --> 01:10:04 I just wanted to kind of pick your brain on that, because that that's kind of
01:10:04 --> 01:10:10 my concern. I would I would like for us to continue to feel that America is
01:10:10 --> 01:10:14 a place where we can achieve in all sectors.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:21 But I'm afraid that this generation, even though they didn't see what we saw
01:10:21 --> 01:10:27 and we were young when that happened, but you might have been even a toddler when that happened.
01:10:27 --> 01:10:30 But, you know, it's like the.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:34 I just that's that's kind of the vibe I'm getting that.
01:10:35 --> 01:10:39 Well, I agree. I think that's one of the reasons why there was so much depression
01:10:39 --> 01:10:44 after the election, because it wasn't so much that Kamala lost or even if it
01:10:44 --> 01:10:45 would have been Biden who lost.
01:10:45 --> 01:10:51 It was the fact that there was such an overwhelming vote for someone who showed
01:10:51 --> 01:10:56 you that he lacked integrity or character, that he lacked qualifications,
01:10:56 --> 01:10:59 that he had no real intentions to help others,
01:10:59 --> 01:11:01 that he had blatant racism and sexism.
01:11:01 --> 01:11:04 But because the vast majority, well, because of the majority,
01:11:04 --> 01:11:11 not the vast, but because he turned so many states red, then that disillusionment,
01:11:11 --> 01:11:14 you know, was, I guess, shattered.
01:11:14 --> 01:11:19 Because it's like, wait a minute, that many people voted for someone over someone
01:11:19 --> 01:11:21 who was more qualified than he was.
01:11:21 --> 01:11:26 And so I think that sometimes you do have to be shaken up to see what the truth
01:11:26 --> 01:11:28 is and say, okay, well, now that I see,
01:11:28 --> 01:11:33 then it may not be that everyone has to be Booker T or everyone has to be Du
01:11:33 --> 01:11:37 Bois, but maybe it could be a combination where you can integrate and infiltrate,
01:11:38 --> 01:11:44 go and do that and become your best and do what's best for who and what is best for you.
01:11:45 --> 01:11:49 Your community, your race, or individuals who are like-minded and wanting a
01:11:49 --> 01:11:52 true and just America for all.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:57 And then for instances when individuals who only want white males to prevail,
01:11:57 --> 01:12:01 then focus on, okay, well now we'll do on focusing on just our own,
01:12:01 --> 01:12:06 protecting ourselves and not worrying about asking or waiting for someone who
01:12:06 --> 01:12:09 really doesn't want anyone to succeed other than themselves,
01:12:09 --> 01:12:11 other than white males to succeed.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:14 Then let me not wait for them to change their mind because they there's
01:12:14 --> 01:12:17 no benefit to them giving up their power or preferential
01:12:17 --> 01:12:20 treatment yeah all right
01:12:20 --> 01:12:26 so let me let me close with this and i always wish i could talk to you for a
01:12:26 --> 01:12:31 long long time what what should be done because this is this is something that
01:12:31 --> 01:12:38 i dealt with when i was elected and you know years later i just think we've
01:12:38 --> 01:12:40 we totally dropped the ball.
01:12:41 --> 01:12:45 And now this problem is exacerbated.
01:12:45 --> 01:12:50 So my question to you is, what should be done from a policy standpoint to improve
01:12:50 --> 01:12:53 the treatment of mental health in America?
01:12:55 --> 01:13:03 I think that it should be one, some of the wording has been changed to behavioral
01:13:03 --> 01:13:07 health, but usually your behavior first comes from your thoughts.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:12 So that would be mental health. So I think it would first have to be seen as
01:13:12 --> 01:13:17 an essential component of health rather than a bonus treatment.
01:13:18 --> 01:13:25 And so I think the policies could be that it is essential and to not and to include that and to not.
01:13:25 --> 01:13:33 Have it attacked or piecemealed because you're trying to avoid other parts that
01:13:33 --> 01:13:35 are associated with mental health.
01:13:35 --> 01:13:42 And what I mean by that is there are recent legislative attempts to say that you can't have.
01:13:42 --> 01:13:48 They're going to remove medical school funding or health school health department
01:13:48 --> 01:13:54 funding if they include anything that focuses on race or gender.
01:13:54 --> 01:13:57 But they or even different
01:13:57 --> 01:14:00 police fields or even states such as homelessness or
01:14:00 --> 01:14:03 a state of living such as homelessness and so
01:14:03 --> 01:14:06 if you try to exclude that police are
01:14:06 --> 01:14:09 more likely to have an unconscious bias
01:14:09 --> 01:14:15 that black men are intimidating and therefore more likely to shoot them if you
01:14:15 --> 01:14:20 are less likely to understand that people are often homeless or unhoused because
01:14:20 --> 01:14:29 they have ptsd or that a black female will have even higher breast density than a white female,
01:14:29 --> 01:14:34 if you try to eliminate all factors because you're trying so desperately to
01:14:34 --> 01:14:40 say that we don't want any preferential treatment given to anyone other than white males,
01:14:40 --> 01:14:46 then that includes you limiting what true components of mental health is or are.
01:14:46 --> 01:14:49 Mental health encompasses everything. If you're going to have a good day,
01:14:49 --> 01:14:53 a bad day, how you respond to someone, your relationship choices.
01:14:53 --> 01:14:58 And if you have underlying self-esteem issues, depression, trauma,
01:14:58 --> 01:15:01 or just having passed down generational.
01:15:02 --> 01:15:06 You know, conditions for your health, meaning more predisposed to schizophrenia,
01:15:06 --> 01:15:10 even more predisposed to having an addiction,
01:15:10 --> 01:15:14 then if you kind of just take, you know, if you're just being so,
01:15:14 --> 01:15:18 as you said, desperate to not have any racial equity or equality,
01:15:18 --> 01:15:25 then that's where mental health is being attacked and suffering across all of the policies.
01:15:26 --> 01:15:28 So, of course, I think it's essential to have it.
01:15:29 --> 01:15:32 But because people are trying to say that it doesn't really apply,
01:15:32 --> 01:15:39 then it's an uneducated approach that's actually making us more unhealthy.
01:15:39 --> 01:15:42 You also have to think about one reason. Let me know if I'm talking too long
01:15:42 --> 01:15:44 also, Eric. No, you're doing good.
01:15:44 --> 01:15:48 Okay. And I also have to think about one reason why some individuals don't want
01:15:48 --> 01:15:52 to focus on the real consequences of mental health is because in Congress,
01:15:52 --> 01:15:55 it may tie to their donors or their PACs.
01:15:55 --> 01:16:00 So you can't say that we really want to focus on the reason why young white
01:16:00 --> 01:16:05 males are more likely to engage in mass shootings is a mental health issue,
01:16:05 --> 01:16:10 in addition to them having easier access to guns over a black male.
01:16:10 --> 01:16:15 And so they don't want to address the associated barriers that come along with
01:16:15 --> 01:16:20 mental health because it would go against their own position or their own wealth
01:16:20 --> 01:16:21 or their self-preservation.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:27 So a lot of reasons why mental health is being overlooked is because individuals
01:16:27 --> 01:16:31 don't they find ways that it will negatively impact them in their career.
01:16:32 --> 01:16:35 Yeah. Well, one of your other skills other than listening is mind reading,
01:16:35 --> 01:16:39 because I sure was going to ask you that follow up about, you know,
01:16:39 --> 01:16:45 the mental health and and related to the mass shootings, because,
01:16:45 --> 01:16:51 you know, just my experience, it was like you would cut the state budget for
01:16:51 --> 01:16:52 mental health every year.
01:16:52 --> 01:16:57 But then you wanted to ease the restrictions on keeping records of ammunition
01:16:57 --> 01:17:03 and where people could carry guns and all that kind of stuff and not see the
01:17:03 --> 01:17:06 correlation of how that was how bad that was going to be.
01:17:06 --> 01:17:09 So, yeah, no, they don't want to see it. They want to be like,
01:17:09 --> 01:17:12 well, no, we want to improve mental health. You don't want it.
01:17:12 --> 01:17:16 We don't want to include or be accountable for how we are perpetrating unhealthy
01:17:16 --> 01:17:18 mental states. Exactly.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:25 Yeah. So that was that was perfect. So, look, how can people listen to the podcast?
01:17:25 --> 01:17:26 How can people get in touch?
01:17:26 --> 01:17:29 I didn't mean perpetrating. I meant perpetuating.
01:17:30 --> 01:17:31 Just as a nerd, I'll make sure I'm speaking clearly.
01:17:33 --> 01:17:37 OK, sorry. You know, perpetrating might have fit well, too.
01:17:38 --> 01:17:43 But but how can people get in touch with you and stay up to date with what you're doing?
01:17:44 --> 01:17:47 Well, definitely you can follow me on Instagram at Dr.
01:17:47 --> 01:17:54 Rene Carr and at Politics and Psychology, as well as on Blue Sky and Facebook and LinkedIn.
01:17:55 --> 01:18:03 And the website is www.drrenecarr.com. So it's D-R-R-E-N-E-E-C-A-R-R.com.
01:18:04 --> 01:18:11 Yeah. And again, it will, you know, people keep asking me if I'm going to run
01:18:11 --> 01:18:14 for anything ever again in life. And I keep telling them, you know,
01:18:14 --> 01:18:19 that was 25, 20, almost, yeah, yeah, 25 years ago.
01:18:19 --> 01:18:23 And so, you know, probably not going to do that. But if I do decide,
01:18:24 --> 01:18:28 you're going to be on that list that I'm going to call and talk to because I'm
01:18:28 --> 01:18:30 going to need somebody like you on my team.
01:18:31 --> 01:18:37 Definitely. It would be an honor. Well, it's been an honor to have you on the podcast again, Dr.
01:18:37 --> 01:18:48 And I enjoy listening to you. you break stuff down really, really easy for people to digest.
01:18:49 --> 01:18:53 Oh, good. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do a real excellent job at that.
01:18:53 --> 01:19:03 And so if people want to get a psychology viewpoint of a psychological, I guess, better term,
01:19:04 --> 01:19:09 viewpoint of the political state that we're in, I suggest y'all listen to politics
01:19:09 --> 01:19:13 and psychology because because Dr. Carr, you do a good job.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:17 So again, thank you very much. Oh, you're welcome. And thank you for coming
01:19:17 --> 01:19:19 on the podcast again. I appreciate you.
01:19:19 --> 01:19:23 Thank you. I'll talk to you next time. All right, guys, and we'll catch y'all on the other side.
01:19:25 --> 01:19:35 Music.
01:19:35 --> 01:19:41 All right. And we are back. So let me thank Ianta Summers and Dr.
01:19:42 --> 01:19:52 Renee Carr for, again, gracing our presence, gracing us with their presence, rather, on the podcast.
01:19:52 --> 01:19:58 It is always good to talk to those sisters. They are very, very strong,
01:19:58 --> 01:20:00 intelligent, capable sisters.
01:20:01 --> 01:20:04 And I find inspiration in both of them.
01:20:06 --> 01:20:14 And like all of us of a certain age, you know, we've been dealing with stuff
01:20:14 --> 01:20:17 personally and professionally for a while.
01:20:19 --> 01:20:23 And, you know, all of us can consider ourselves survivors.
01:20:24 --> 01:20:28 But now we're about to enter a new territory.
01:20:29 --> 01:20:33 And I thank them for offering their insights and how to navigate it.
01:20:33 --> 01:20:37 And what they would like to see happen,
01:20:38 --> 01:20:44 during this period. All I want to add to that is what I've been telling people
01:20:44 --> 01:20:47 is just to stay focused and engaged.
01:20:48 --> 01:20:57 As you watch the confirmation hearings, it is pretty apparent that we don't have leaders.
01:20:58 --> 01:20:59 We have followers.
01:21:01 --> 01:21:06 And they've been elected or appointed in leadership positions,
01:21:07 --> 01:21:15 but these are not the men and the women that would stand in the breach or bridge the gap if needed.
01:21:17 --> 01:21:24 And it's a shame because some of them have qualifications that would indicate.
01:21:25 --> 01:21:31 Some of them don't have any qualifications at all other than Donald Trump likes
01:21:31 --> 01:21:38 them, right? But the reality is that we don't have leaders.
01:21:38 --> 01:21:46 So in a moment where leadership is lacking, it's time for us to step up.
01:21:46 --> 01:21:51 So I'm not going to hold you all long with this.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:57 I just I just want to continue to stress the fact that even more so now we have
01:21:57 --> 01:22:02 to be focused and engaged because now we see if you've been following the hearings,
01:22:02 --> 01:22:03 you see what we're dealing with.
01:22:05 --> 01:22:13 You know, you got somebody who is about to be attorney general and she claims
01:22:13 --> 01:22:18 she never heard any quotes from people that she's going to be working with in
01:22:18 --> 01:22:21 the public sphere at all. Yeah, I'm not buying that.
01:22:23 --> 01:22:32 I'm not buying these confessions of faith and not confession of the sin, right?
01:22:35 --> 01:22:45 You know, and as much as I'm really embarrassed by the senators who beat somebody
01:22:45 --> 01:22:48 that had been in office for a long time,
01:22:48 --> 01:22:52 and your debut is you're going to ask a man how many push-ups he's done?
01:22:53 --> 01:22:58 Really, that's where we're going with that? That's the first impression you
01:22:58 --> 01:23:00 want to give to the American people,
01:23:00 --> 01:23:04 that you're concerned about how many push-ups a human being has done.
01:23:05 --> 01:23:10 That's why I say we, and I say this with every fiber of my being,
01:23:10 --> 01:23:14 we don't have leaders, and we need them.
01:23:15 --> 01:23:20 But until the leadership emerges, it's time for us to do work.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:23 So I'm asking you all to stay focused.
01:23:23 --> 01:23:29 Stay engaged, keep listening to the podcast, keep supporting people who are
01:23:29 --> 01:23:35 doing the work in the communities, and together we're going to get to it.
01:23:36 --> 01:23:40 All right, guys, as always, thank you for listening, and until next time.
01:23:42 --> 01:24:28 Music.
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