[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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[00:01:20] Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
[00:01:42] So today I've only got one guest and I'm going to do something that I haven't done in a while
[00:01:49] and that's have a hot mic moment later on in the podcast. But before I have that hot mic moment,
[00:02:05] I really want y'all to listen to this sister that's coming on because it's an...
[00:02:15] The work that she is doing is very, very important to how we act more human in how we deal with politics.
[00:02:37] I guess that's my tease and I'll leave it at that.
[00:02:42] You know, we... And I'll get into it later in the commentary but
[00:02:51] we have to be very, very responsible in what we do and we have to have a center to guide that responsibility.
[00:03:01] So this sister is going to talk about how she does it and then later on in the podcast
[00:03:12] I'm going to express some opinions about particular events that are going on
[00:03:22] and why I feel that that center responsibility has not been fulfilled
[00:03:31] and that's part of the reason why we're dealing with a lot of this chaos that's going on.
[00:03:37] And I say chaos, you know, because most people are living their lives as normal
[00:03:47] but in the political discussions, it's a lot of disruption, a lot of chaos going on.
[00:03:54] Alright, but before we do any of that, it's time for a moment of news with Grace G.
[00:04:23] The New York Court of Appeals overturned Harvey Weinstein's 2020 conviction for sexual assault and rape due to a mistake by the trial judge.
[00:04:34] A paramedic in Colorado was sentenced to 14 months in a work release program and four years of probation for his role in the death of Elijah McClain in 2019.
[00:04:45] In Canton, Ohio, police released a video showing the death of a black man, Frank Tyson, after being restrained by officers which drew parallels to George Floyd's death.
[00:04:55] Four law enforcement officers were killed and four others were wounded in a shootout in Charlotte, North Carolina while serving a warrant.
[00:05:03] Rudy Giuliani and 17 others have been charged in Arizona with illegally trying to claim the state's electoral votes for Donald Trump in the 2020 election.
[00:05:13] President Joe Biden agreed to debate Donald Trump sometime during the upcoming presidential election.
[00:05:19] House Democrats stated they will not support a motion to remove Republican Speaker Mike Johnson.
[00:05:25] The U.S. Justice Department proposed reclassifying marijuana from a Schedule 1 to a Schedule 3 drug.
[00:05:32] Donald Trump's allies have drafted proposals that would undermine the Federal Reserve's independence, including giving Trump authority to remove the Fed chair Jerome Powell before the end of the term.
[00:05:43] Powell later stated that the presidential election will not influence interest rate decisions.
[00:05:48] The Fourth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that state-run health insurance plans must cover gender-affirming surgeries for transgender individuals.
[00:05:57] And the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recommended that women at average risk for breast cancer start getting mammograms every other year at age 40.
[00:06:07] I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.
[00:06:12] All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. And now it is time for my guest, Jenae Lewis.
[00:06:29] Jenae Lewis serves as interim CEO at Faith in Public Life. She is a non-profit executive, faith-based organizer, and an authority on creating empowered communities.
[00:06:43] She has dedicated her career to building bridges, closing equity gaps, and creating policies that lead to strong, thriving, and self-determined cities.
[00:06:54] Jenae received her undergraduate degree from Washington University in St. Louis and holds an MA in conflict resolution from Antioch University Midwest.
[00:07:04] Jenae resides in Washington, D.C., and is a member of the D.C. Working Families Party, St. Augustine Catholic Parish, and Songrise, a women's social justice acapella group.
[00:07:18] Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Jenae Lewis.
[00:07:40] All right. Jenae Lewis, how you doing, sister? You doing good?
[00:07:45] I am doing great. Happy to be here.
[00:07:47] Well, I am honored to have you on because I wanted to highlight the work that you are doing.
[00:07:55] And when I came across you in my social media network, I was like, hmm, wonder why people ain't talking about this sister,
[00:08:06] because this sister looks like she's doing some damage in certain places.
[00:08:10] So I said, let me get her on the podcast.
[00:08:15] What I like to do to start the interview off is to throw a quote at my guest.
[00:08:23] Okay.
[00:08:24] Your quote is, no matter how we pray or what we look like, we are united in the deep belief that every person has divinely given dignity and thus the right to a direct voice in how we are governed.
[00:08:42] What does that quote mean to you?
[00:08:46] For me, it's pretty plain. No matter where we come from, who we are, you know, what's on the surface is not the fullness of who we are.
[00:08:56] And if we're really seeing each other as human beings who are connected for me as a person of faith, person who believes in God, the millions of other people in the United States who believe in God or spiritual in some way.
[00:09:09] If we believe that we're more than just what we see on the surface, there's something fundamental about us where we're equal.
[00:09:16] We all deserve the same access. We all deserve the same rights. We all deserve the same respect, the same dignity.
[00:09:24] And the role, the imperative of people of faith is to constantly see beyond the surface to that deeper truth of who we are and make sure that every single human being has an opportunity to flex that in society,
[00:09:43] has an opportunity to live that out, to shine, to thrive, to be present and get what they need.
[00:09:52] Can you recount a personal experience or pivotal moment that crystallize your commitment to integrating faith with action in the areas of social justice and reproductive equality?
[00:10:09] Yeah, absolutely. So for me it's definitely about faith and social justice being engaged in our democracy, being engaged in our society that includes access to comprehensive reproductive health care and includes voting access, economic equity.
[00:10:27] And so there's a person and there's a moment. The person is my grandmother, Hilda Donald. She's passed now. My maternal grandmother.
[00:10:34] My grandmother started a church. She was from rural Louisiana. She had an eighth grade education. She was raised in Roman Catholic as I was and am, but when she was in her mid 50s, she felt called by God to start a church.
[00:10:47] So this woman who really, you know, everyone thought that she didn't have the education didn't have the leadership skills to do it. She founded this church.
[00:10:55] And her church was service oriented. When I would visit her in the summers in New Orleans, she was serving people with disability. She was engaging the elderly.
[00:11:06] These folks were members of her church and she was caring for them and she was getting other members of the community to care for those folks.
[00:11:13] So when I looked at my grandmother as a little girl, and I thought about what does it mean to be a Christian? What does it mean to love Jesus? What does it mean to do church?
[00:11:24] It was worship and praise and singing and dance and scripture and prayer. And it was also serving people in the community and treating them just as equals just as anyone who didn't have a disability or anyone who was able body.
[00:11:40] So that was my grandmother, but I think the moment that solidified me doing this work was in high school. I went to Catholic school and it was an all girls school and they used to bring in speakers to talk about social justice issues.
[00:11:53] And I remember the day that Sister Helen Prejohn came she is an advocate who is trying to eliminate the death penalty in the United States.
[00:12:02] Y'all might remember the movie Dead Man Walking. It had just came out. She came, she talked about this issue. She talked about being a nun and how she was doing direct service work and then started understanding systemic issues and then understanding why she felt called to eliminate the death penalty and the disproportionate impact on poor people and people of color.
[00:12:23] And so hearing this, this nun, this person who had bowed her life to God talk about how her faith inspired her to change systemic issues was a light bulb for me that oh I could, I could do something like that too.
[00:12:35] My faith can help me address deep seated systemic complex issues of society.
[00:12:41] Yeah, it's funny. That's interesting about Sister Helen because when I was in the legislature, I was a big opponent of the death penalty.
[00:12:51] I mean, I literally, well, I didn't cuss him out, but I kind of got into the assistant attorney general that was over the death penalty cases, the capital punishment cases.
[00:13:01] But we were, I was part of a group and Sister Helen would come to Jackson, Mississippi and speak and raise money for our group and all that kind of stuff.
[00:13:09] So it's just amazing how certain people can influence thousands of folks to do the right thing.
[00:13:20] That's right. So talk about the organization what is what is faith in public life action, and why is there a need for an organization like this to exist?
[00:13:33] Yeah. We are an advocacy organization based in Washington DC but we work nationally.
[00:13:39] And we work with faith leaders from a variety of different faith traditions who want to wrestle out loud together who want to be in coalition together to advance justice and equity in our society.
[00:13:53] And so our organization, our staff, we facilitate folks, we train them, we prepare them, we help organize campaigns that strategy for them.
[00:14:03] But we also create space for these influential faith leaders to work together, even across their differences to find shared strategy and to build power with one another so that we can be effective in what we do.
[00:14:18] So we work again at the national level we've worked on and we are looking at some national legislation. We also are looking at the state level legislation in Georgia, Florida and Ohio.
[00:14:31] And why that's necessary right now is because for decades there has been a radical fringe group of conservative Christians who have distorted what our faith traditions say about engaging in the public square and what it needs to be a person of faith in this country.
[00:14:51] And I intentionally say a radical fringe because I'm Christian. There are many Christians who don't associate with this and there are actually many conservatives who are also Christian, who I would say are not aligned with the radical fringe beliefs that have been perpetuated over decades.
[00:15:07] But that narrative has taken hold in our society.
[00:15:10] So our organization and our partner organizations are necessary in order to reflect what the majority of people of faith believe according to the data, what the majority of people of faith want to see in our society according to our teachings according to our scriptures and traditions, what we're invited to do by God.
[00:15:29] There's a deeper narrative that holds a deeper truth for what people of faith believe and want in our society and our organization is partnering with several others to make sure that those narratives are heard and that voice is heard.
[00:15:43] Yeah. So in summary,
[00:15:48] what I've always said about that radical group of you referred to is when it comes to dealing with issues of reproductive care about abortion.
[00:16:01] It's not about faith, it's about racism. This is my opinion now. I'm not throwing words in your mouth.
[00:16:07] I appreciate that.
[00:16:08] And it's like when it came to sexual orientation, it wasn't about religion. It was about helping the insurance companies not give money to folks that were beneficiaries.
[00:16:20] Right? So having said that, let me ask this question. How do you address critics who argue that faith based organizations should not involve themselves in issues like reproductive justice and political advocacy and the one thing that comes to mind is that
[00:16:38] because that was one of the things initially when those radical groups came out. We was like, what are you doing? You know, Thomas Jefferson wrote this beautiful letter and talked about the wall of separation of church and state.
[00:16:50] And but now here comes Reverend Barber and Sister Lewis. Now they coming out and you know their faith people. So how do you address those critics when they talk about keeping faith and politics separate?
[00:17:04] Yeah. So we have to go back to what our faith traditions actually teach us, right? You know, we're a multi-faith organization.
[00:17:15] When you look at Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, all of these major world religions have denominations within them.
[00:17:26] We have our holy scriptures and then we have other texts and thought leadership. So there's a lot of information that comes at us about what we're supposed to do as people of faith.
[00:17:37] And what happens is that very few pieces of scripture or one quote or one word is emphasized over all the others instead of looking at it collectively.
[00:17:48] But when you really study our faith traditions, when you get underneath all of that, the through line is love.
[00:17:56] The through line is that God loves us. We're supposed to love each other and we're supposed to figure out the best ways at any given moment how to do that, right?
[00:18:03] So when we say that faith and politics needs to be completely separate and those things don't engage, I think it does us a disservice about who we fully are as people.
[00:18:16] Our faith gives us values. Our faith gives us practices about how to be in right relationship with one another and being committed to a democracy means that we have to participate.
[00:18:27] We have to be in right relationship with one another. The majority of people in the U.S. identify spiritual people of faith in some way.
[00:18:34] So we can't abandon all of that learning and understanding and teaching about how to be in relationship with one another, how to love one another when we're talking about a democratic society where we're concerned about one another's well-being and our own.
[00:18:49] So I think if we're truly drawing from our traditions with all of what we can learn about how to act towards one another that models love and right relationship, it's a powerful model for what our society can be.
[00:19:03] And it's a powerful tool for building power to make sure that our systems stay and move towards that beloved community, working together to end suffering, creating a space where everyone's gifts and talents can shine, where everyone one can thrive.
[00:19:20] And again, I think this fringe faction of religious right has been the loudest voice in the room for a really long time. And to some of your point, they've conflated faith with their specific political perspective or desire for power or even just a particular opinion point and trying to build power to emphasize that.
[00:19:44] But when we really understand our faith traditions, we're called to do so much more.
[00:19:50] So in that letter that Jefferson wrote to those ministers, I guess the Dan's very convention or whatever.
[00:19:59] After he said the words church and state, he said this, adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation. In behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights convinced he has no natural
[00:20:20] right and opposition to his social duties. And I think that that speaks to, yeah, you can have all the faith you want. But if you're not committed to exercising that faith to make sure that every human being has rights and every human being has a place in society, then that
[00:20:41] faith is not working and it's like and that's that's against your nature. That's against your clear conscience. So what is a particular scripture that defines what you're doing?
[00:20:56] There are so many. I can't name one and I think it's important to say that though, right? Because because we are a multi faith organization, our coalition is multi faith.
[00:21:10] And too often we assume that only our faith tells us this roadmap, right? So as a Christian, we'll start there, you know, in the Bible, it talks about
[00:21:25] making sure that we pursue what makes for peace and mutual upbuilding. So that's in Romans, Romans 1419. Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbringing.
[00:21:37] So, you know, Paul's writing to congregation of Christians who are Romans and instructing them how to act and it's pursue what makes for peace and mutual upbringing.
[00:21:49] In the Jewish tradition, the world rests on three things on justice on truth and on peace and all three are one. So there's an intersection there. We have to speak truth. We have to value truth, right?
[00:22:02] We can't allow people to perpetuate lies and misinformation. That is intertwined with justice of peace. In Hinduism, the Rig Veda says come together, talk together, let our minds be in harmony, perfect be the union among us.
[00:22:20] So again, this is about how we communicate with one another, how we listen to one another and let us find that unity through our conversation, not through violence, not through denouncing one another, not through cancelling one another, but really deeply listening to each other.
[00:22:37] And then lastly, I'll share from the thick tradition. There's a scripture that says no one shall coerce another. No one shall exploit another. Everyone, each individual has the analienable birthright to seek and pursue happiness and self fulfillment.
[00:22:55] Love and persuasion is the only law of social coherence.
[00:23:00] So it's there. It's there across all of our traditions. I could go on and on, but too often we don't realize that many of our faiths are telling us to do very similar things.
[00:23:11] So speaking about this intersection, what does it mean to have a multi-faith, multi-racial democracy? And I'm going to combine three questions into that. So that's the first question.
[00:23:24] Okay. All right.
[00:23:25] How can we move to that multi-faith, multi-racial democracy and has the current conflict between Israel and Hamas done major damage to that work?
[00:23:40] Yeah. We talk about democracy in the United States. And then ideally a multi-faith, multi-racial democracy. We haven't seen that in the United States.
[00:23:52] At its core, what a multi-faith, multi-racial democracy means is that everyone can participate without fear, barriers or intimidation.
[00:24:04] But we know that from the founding of the United States as we understand it today, there have always been limits and boundaries placed on the most fundamental aspect of participation, which is who can vote.
[00:24:16] So from the very, very beginning. So we haven't seen yet what it looks like, but we can imagine and we can work towards a democracy where every single person can participate without fear, barriers or intimidation.
[00:24:31] So we're not alone in this in the U.S. Other democracies around the world are also struggling with this, especially countries that have been very homogeneous.
[00:24:41] As diversity comes, conflict rises, it spikes initially. But if we can work through it, we actually get to a better place.
[00:24:48] So what our organization is doing is partnering with others, with other people of faith, with other organizations who are really committed to this vision about making sure that we have a democracy where all can participate without fear, barriers or intimidation.
[00:25:04] That's a multi-faith, multi-racial democracy.
[00:25:07] In terms of the war between Israel and Hamas, you know, our organization is a domestic organization. We focus on domestic issues, but our world is increasingly global.
[00:25:19] And so we've seen uprisings on campuses. We've seen protests over the last several months. We've seen advocates from a variety of sides.
[00:25:29] And what this is illustrating for us is that in our faith spaces, people have avoided this issue for too long.
[00:25:39] Right? I've been in a lot of coalitions. I've been in a lot of interfaith spaces where there are certain topics that they don't discuss at all.
[00:25:48] And oftentimes this is one of them, not the only one, but this is one of them because people are ill-equipped or afraid to wrestle with it.
[00:25:57] And so now the relationships that we've built across lines of difference, particularly across the Abrahamic faiths, Jews, Christians and Muslims are fracturing because we haven't dealt with a hard thing before it got hard.
[00:26:10] And I want to be really clear if an organization or a group has never talked about this before or has avoided it for the last several many years, I don't think this is the time to start a deep listening.
[00:26:22] I do think that this is the time for all of us to continue to educate ourselves, to be deep in our own spiritual practices of discernment about when and how to act.
[00:26:31] Our organization put out some resources about the violence that's rising up, particularly around Islamophobia and anti-semitism in this country.
[00:26:40] And we put that out in October to our network and to our list for people who are already committed to reducing political violence.
[00:26:46] Because we knew that what's happening in the Middle East is going to increase violence, especially against Muslims and Jews in the United States or people perceived to be Muslims and Jews.
[00:26:56] And that was very hard for us to figure out what is the thing that we actually know how to do and can engage around this issue and what are the things that we don't do well and that we're not equipped to do to engage or engage around this issue.
[00:27:10] But I think when we talk about the upcoming election, when we talk about political violence, what we're seeing is an extension of violence that has been rising in the United States in order to fracture our coalitions for years.
[00:27:26] So this is a flash point of a deeper issue.
[00:27:29] And I would say for us as faith leaders, for people of faith, I think this is an opportunity for us to commit to stay in relationship that we've already committed to.
[00:27:39] And to really take the opportunity to wrestle with what that means to be in better and more authentic relationship moving forward.
[00:27:49] Also we'll say we need our chaplains because people are traumatized right now.
[00:27:53] You have people who are directly affected by what's happening in the Middle East.
[00:27:56] You have people who are experiencing trauma intergenerational trauma.
[00:27:59] You have people who are experiencing trauma because they or our people have experienced similar hurt and harm that's being reflected in the Middle East right now.
[00:28:11] So in the US and around the world, people are acting very much out of a trauma response and that is very real and very legitimate.
[00:28:19] But we also need to recognize that for what it is.
[00:28:22] And remember that is not the fullness of who we are.
[00:28:23] So as we're thinking about how to engage, when to engage, what to do, I would say prioritize staying in relationship, even if that's hard and doing what we need to do to navigate that with more authenticity.
[00:28:35] And then caring for one another with compassion because we recognize that so many of us are having a real and very profound trauma response to this moment.
[00:28:44] Yeah. And I know that's going to be hard work because excuse me.
[00:28:48] I remember I was part of those faith based coalitions.
[00:28:54] Each state had a faith based coalition to deal with what President Bush was trying to do.
[00:29:00] And I remember we had a meeting the day 9 11 happened.
[00:29:06] It was like everybody was what we were coming to the meeting and boardroom and the TVs on and we see everything.
[00:29:14] And the Eman for Jackson, Mississippi was basically on the phone the first 20 minutes of the meeting.
[00:29:23] We really couldn't even because he was constantly getting calls and he finally excused himself from the meeting and he never participated in our meetings again.
[00:29:32] You know, we did reach out and all that kind of stuff to make sure that people understood that just because these folks are of a certain faith doesn't mean that they ascribe to what the terrorists did right Al Qaeda.
[00:29:47] But that's hard because people's emotions are into it when you feel that you've been attacked.
[00:29:53] And that's what I see what's going on with with the Jewish community and the Muslim community, especially those who are Palestinian descent.
[00:30:05] It's just it's it's years and years of emotion tied in.
[00:30:09] And so yeah, I just want people understand this is hard work.
[00:30:14] I'm glad that you kind of have a blueprint of what to do.
[00:30:20] But you understand.
[00:30:22] I appreciate that.
[00:30:23] But I mean, you know, it's like but but but you acknowledge that it's going to be hard.
[00:30:29] Yeah, and I'm glad you said that so plainly because the work of transforming our society is hard work.
[00:30:38] Whether you're talking about this issue, whether you're talking about combating racism, whether you're talking about combating transphobia.
[00:30:47] This is hard work and it requires it requires not only our values and our intellect, but it requires our spiritual practices and our spiritual discipline to be in community with each other to support one another emotionally and spiritually.
[00:31:04] So we have the resilience to continue to do the hard work so that we can deal with our trauma responses so that we can regulate our anger and hurt and remember why we're in relationship with people in the first place.
[00:31:18] That's deep spiritual work, which is why our faith leaders are not only doing the advocacy but thinking about how to practice being in a community of belonging with one another.
[00:31:29] So so for everybody out there who's doing any kind of social justice work systems transformation work social change work.
[00:31:37] Just be gracious with yourself because this is deep spiritual work and rely on your spiritual practices are spiritual traditions and our spiritual community to help us navigate through it.
[00:31:47] So you brought up the phase community of belonging and, you know, and working with the King Center and stuff. They always use the term the beloved community.
[00:31:58] Tell me what a community of belonging looks like to Janay Lewis.
[00:32:04] Yeah, community of belonging is about empowerment. It's about authenticity and it's about being in a space where we're confident that our human rights are sacred.
[00:32:23] So there's a there's a level of I'm going to say security, not safety, different from safety but but security where I know that I am seen as a full human being I value people assume and believe that I have gifts and talents to offer to our collective growth as humanity.
[00:32:45] And who I am fundamentally as a human being is health sacred.
[00:32:50] That's a community of belonging and and so the consequence of that are all the things that we work for you know, universal healthcare, you know, education, clean water and air, all of these things will be consequences when we are making decisions out of a belief that every single person belongs.
[00:33:09] Every single person here is sacred. Every single person has a right to thrive it changes the way we make decisions. So for me that is what a community of belonging looks like.
[00:33:22] So how has this work helped you evolve in your faith and your commitment to public service.
[00:33:35] Everything I do is inspired by my faith. You know, I'm a follower of Jesus. I'm a practicing Catholic and I am a contemplative. So I learned through my experiences the experiences of others and also as I've learned about other religions I learned through them too.
[00:33:55] So this work for me is about finding the fundamental truths. The greatest commandment in Christianity is is also found in other religions but it's about loving God loving neighbor and loving self.
[00:34:12] And I'm always looking for the deeper truth that allows me to do that better. I deeply believe 100% that God loves each and every one of us, and has given us gifts to heal and improve the human condition.
[00:34:29] I believe in my tradition that we are God's hands right we are we are God's hands eyes.
[00:34:35] And so my life and my work, no matter what job I have no matter where I live, no matter what I'm doing at any given time is to help as many people as possible, recognize our gifts and feel God's love very deeply and create opportunities for us to put those gifts to work in service of God and a service of each other.
[00:34:56] So what is there a particular piece of legislation that you're trying to stop or you're trying to push through with as far as your organization is concerned and how are you organizing to get that done.
[00:35:16] Yeah, we have quite a few pieces of legislation we're focused on this year. I'll focus on our work around comprehensive reproductive health and equity but we also have some other other things we're working on to in Ohio last fall.
[00:35:30] We helped pass issue one. So that was statewide legislation that protects maternal and prenatal care also protects access to abortion services, along with some other related issues around reproductive care that everyone needs in Florida this year we are working with a coalition on amendment for so that would be a constitutional
[00:35:53] amendment and the state constitution that blocks the implementation of laws that prohibit delay or restrict abortion access. And in Georgia, we're supporting their reproductive freedom act that prevents people from being criminalized for pregnancy loss and abortion, and would repeal some of the bands and delays that that are currently in place.
[00:36:18] So the way that we're doing that again we have faith leaders from a variety of traditions that we are supporting and equipping to communicate with voters, especially voters who identify people of faith to participate in the process to support these measures and to talk about why they're doing it and why their faith persuade them and motivate them to do it in this way.
[00:36:43] So that sounds like that's going to take some money.
[00:36:47] It's going to take some, absolutely some some support from the community so how can people get in touch with you and your organization to offer donations and to volunteer and all that kind of stuff.
[00:37:03] Absolutely. So I would love it if you also posted this on your site, but people can find us at fplaction.com online. And when you go on that site, you can donate to us you can sign up to get our information you can sign up to learn more about us and support, especially if someone's listening and they are a clergy person, or they're a faith leader who influences other people of faith.
[00:37:33] We definitely want to hear from you so we could plug you into into some of our coalitions.
[00:37:38] And, you know, we want you to follow us on social media as well.
[00:37:44] And we want you to tell your faith leaders if you're not a clergy person or you're not a person of faith but you don't hear your pastor or your mom or your rabbi or your faith leaders talking about these issues. We want you to speak up to them and ask them why and we want you to ask them why they're not engaging in this important
[00:38:02] election year and send them our way and we can help them be more courageous to be more bold so they can do that.
[00:38:08] Well, Janaye Lewis.
[00:38:11] I went to Jackson State University.
[00:38:14] Okay.
[00:38:15] And when we first got there, when I first got there, our motto was, you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.
[00:38:27] Amen.
[00:38:28] And I am honored to have somebody on the podcast that is literally making that come to life.
[00:38:40] I am so glad that I ran across what your organization is doing.
[00:38:45] It is an honor to meet you and have you come on the podcast and I thank you for doing that.
[00:38:51] But more importantly, I thank you for the work that you're doing.
[00:38:56] You know, we are all in this together.
[00:39:00] Yes.
[00:39:01] Some people don't want to buy into that in the current political conversation but the reality is that either we can thrive as brothers and sisters or we'll perish like fools.
[00:39:12] That's right.
[00:39:13] To quote Dr. King.
[00:39:14] So thank you for what you're doing and thank you for coming on the podcast and telling your story.
[00:39:22] Thank you for having me.
[00:39:23] I'm so glad you reached out Eric.
[00:39:25] I'm so glad that we are now in relationship in spanning the circle.
[00:39:29] And thank you for the work that you're doing because our organization is one piece of a big ecosystem, like you said, we're all in this together.
[00:39:37] So I'm excited to meet anybody who has found their gift, their voice, their role to play and advancing justice and equity.
[00:39:47] Happy to be a partnership and happy to come back and talk anytime.
[00:39:51] Well, I'm glad that you said that because you have an open invitation to come anytime you want to.
[00:39:58] So thank you.
[00:39:59] All right guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
[00:40:02] All right.
[00:40:26] And we are back.
[00:40:31] So when I talk about being centered in your responsibility to do the right thing to be engaged.
[00:40:50] There's two particular things that I want to highlight when it comes to dealing with that and one of them deal with it really, really quick.
[00:41:03] And then the other one is going to take a moment.
[00:41:07] First thing I want to deal with is this Congresswoman that some people may that are critical of me might say that I'm obsessed with her.
[00:41:21] It's not an obsession.
[00:41:22] It's a prolonged frustration.
[00:41:27] And it's not just with her, but it's with her constituents as well.
[00:41:37] But the Congresswoman is margin telegroup and real quick, let me just say, and I've had some strong opinions about her, you know, and they haven't been favorable.
[00:41:57] And to be fair, she is a human being.
[00:42:00] Somebody does love her.
[00:42:03] She is a creation of God.
[00:42:09] But those characteristics don't necessarily mean that you're going to be an effective productive responsible leader.
[00:42:22] And she is neither.
[00:42:30] So you have to understand the mindset.
[00:42:35] And that's going to tie into what I close into that is not guided by faith that is not guided by truth or enlightenment.
[00:42:50] It's gotten the guiding force, the compass for people like her is pride.
[00:42:58] And I was just talking to a coworker.
[00:43:01] My regular job about pride coming before the fall, all of us if we are human have had that moment where we let our pride get in the way and we suffered because of that.
[00:43:21] And it was supposed to be a learning moment for us.
[00:43:27] And for some people, it's not.
[00:43:32] And a particular thing that's bothering me, she's been bothering me for a long time and I and somebody the reason why it bothers me is because
[00:43:42] I ran for public office.
[00:43:44] I got elected to serve.
[00:43:48] And I wasn't perfect at it, but the impression that I left was that this young man tried to do the right thing.
[00:44:01] This young man did what he had to do within the confines of a legislative body to gain respect of his peers and the respect of his community.
[00:44:19] And even though you may lose an election, you don't lose respect from people who you represent if you try to do the right thing.
[00:44:32] One, you're always going to have supporters regardless to even your enemies outside of the heat of battle, whatever realize that you are formidable foe.
[00:44:45] And if they end up beating you, you know, that's a major achievement for them.
[00:44:55] So, you know, that's what you want to walk out of your political life being respected having your dignity intact.
[00:45:12] I can't see how she's going to do that.
[00:45:17] And the latest thing that's driving me crazy is her pride has interfered with logic.
[00:45:29] Now, I'm not a Republican, never will be.
[00:45:33] But I understand in this democracy and this Constitution Republic, however you want to phrase it, this nation state, we need at least two parties to be functional.
[00:45:56] We need at least two parties to be competitive so that we can get diverse ideas and people can make an educated decision
[00:46:08] about which direction they want to go.
[00:46:10] And I always go back to that podcast where I talk about the era of good feelings where one political party in the history of the United States has totally made themselves irrelevant.
[00:46:23] And I still think we're coming into that new era of good feelings again, but we've arrived there.
[00:46:33] And Marjorie Taylor Greene is not helping.
[00:46:39] So in the recent dynamics of the United States House of Representatives, members of the Republican Party are leaving.
[00:46:51] They're not one thing not to run for election.
[00:46:54] It's another thing to just leave before your term is up.
[00:46:58] And that's what's happening because of the frustration that's going on with them.
[00:47:03] And she's exacerbating that.
[00:47:05] And now that the Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson took a position to allow legislation to aid Israel to aid Ukraine to aid Taiwan even
[00:47:24] to make sure that our allies are supported in whatever military engagement they're involved in.
[00:47:34] She decided to pull the nuclear option and try to vacate the Speaker of the House yet again.
[00:47:45] Not being cognizant of all that, you are literally months away from a general election.
[00:47:55] Not being cognizant of the fact that because a lot of these Republican members have left or are leaving
[00:48:05] that you may flip the House to have a Democratic Speaker if the Democrats wanted to pull that move
[00:48:14] prior to the Democrats being the majority of the House, which has never been done before.
[00:48:24] Even in the frustration is even to the point that Republican media outlets or conservative media outlets,
[00:48:31] I would be one of phrase it like the Wall Street Journal and Fox News and anything else that Rupert Murdoch owns.
[00:48:39] And you know, other groups have basically said even Donald Trump himself has said,
[00:48:47] yeah, I don't think it's the right time to do that.
[00:48:51] I think we need to support Speaker Johnson and keep it pushing and let's see if we can retain the majority in November.
[00:48:59] But she doesn't care about that.
[00:49:04] And to me, that's a lack of having a moral center.
[00:49:07] You cannot do things that are destructive to what you claim to represent and be effective.
[00:49:23] The majority of the time that she has been in Congress, she hasn't really been an effective legislator
[00:49:30] and yet and still the people of her district have voted in twice.
[00:49:36] If she gets elected this time, when she takes that off next January,
[00:49:44] she will be guaranteed a check from the United States government for the rest of her life.
[00:49:51] She will get a pension.
[00:49:53] Now I don't know what the house pension is.
[00:49:55] I know the Senate pension is once you serve one term which is six years,
[00:49:59] you get $5,000 a month for the rest of your life.
[00:50:03] And I assume the house is pretty similar, you know, not identical.
[00:50:10] But the vesting is six years.
[00:50:12] So that means she has to be elected three times.
[00:50:16] So if she wins this election, she's going to get a check.
[00:50:23] Now far better for me to deny people their money.
[00:50:25] But you know, and there's been some people who have been worse serving.
[00:50:39] In Congress, as far as you know, their meanness and I didn't think of Jesse Helms,
[00:50:47] Strom Thurman for example.
[00:50:50] You know, in respect to black people, right?
[00:50:56] White folks might be cool with them but black folks won't.
[00:51:00] And so, you know, just the thought that she's going to be getting a government check
[00:51:05] for the rest of her life bothers me.
[00:51:09] Let alone the fact that she's even there.
[00:51:14] And my thing with her is that if you don't get it and you'll never get it,
[00:51:21] then you don't need to be there.
[00:51:25] The United States of America needs leaders right now.
[00:51:29] And we can't have people that are more concerned about how many social media
[00:51:35] clicks they get or you know, how many pats on the back they get.
[00:51:42] We need somebody that's thinking about what's in the best interest of our nation,
[00:51:47] whether it's domestically, excuse me, or internationally.
[00:51:56] And she doesn't have the wherewithal to do that.
[00:52:01] That's just my opinion and that's not going to change unless she changes.
[00:52:09] So that's all I want to say about that.
[00:52:13] Now, the remainder of my time speaking about changes.
[00:52:21] You know, I am really glad that I had my guest on the day, Mr. Lewis.
[00:52:28] And I'm glad she was comfortable in addressing a particular topic that I'm going to highlight.
[00:52:36] And that's dealing with this is really Hamas conflict of one of the advantages of having a podcast
[00:52:46] and having some credibility attached to the podcast where people with diverging opinions come on
[00:52:54] is that people want to use this platform to educate, regardless of what side the issue they're on.
[00:53:08] And so I have been very fortunate to have pro-Israeli people and pro-Palestinian people on the podcast already.
[00:53:20] And I've had some guests who have expressed their opinion one way or the other,
[00:53:28] mostly wanting to see a peaceful solution.
[00:53:32] The reason why I want to talk about it now is because Donald Trump said something
[00:53:45] in the midst of his criminal trial that's going on in New York City
[00:53:52] during his press break or whatever he does, whether he does it before the court starts
[00:54:00] or during recess or after whatever.
[00:54:05] And he said it at a rally in Wisconsin when he was able to get away from the court and actually campaign.
[00:54:16] He said that what's going on at these college campuses, these pro-Palestinian protests
[00:54:24] are way more dangerous than Charlottesville, Virginia.
[00:54:37] For those of you who may not remember, Charlottesville, Virginia happened I think in 2017
[00:54:49] and it was two days in August.
[00:54:55] And these wannabe KKKers, these alt-right men were saying incredibly anti-Semitic things the night before.
[00:55:14] And then the next day they chose violence and one person died.
[00:55:26] And his response when he was president as all this was going on was that,
[00:55:33] well, there's good people on both sides.
[00:55:36] I don't know how you can have a good person who is a racist.
[00:55:45] I can see a good person that may have been brought up in a racist household
[00:55:51] and in a racist culture and may have certain beliefs
[00:55:56] but don't really try to articulate them or execute them or they do it involuntarily.
[00:56:05] But they're willing to be corrected. That's a good person.
[00:56:10] A person who exposes racist rhetoric and is willing to commit violence
[00:56:16] to defend that racist rhetoric is not a good person.
[00:56:20] Period.
[00:56:22] Stop.
[00:56:23] And he fails to understand that.
[00:56:28] Or at least he pretends to in order to cater to a base that he thinks that he needs to get elected.
[00:56:36] That is not leadership.
[00:56:43] That is not leadership that is centered in responsibility.
[00:56:48] That's trying to make yourself look good.
[00:56:51] That's you trying to appease something that doesn't need to be appealed.
[00:56:58] Evil never needs to be appeased.
[00:57:01] Evil never needs to be coddled. Evil never needs to be supported in any way, shape or form.
[00:57:08] Evil needs to be repelled. Evil needs to be fought against.
[00:57:12] Now the both sides is among that is that if you are going to any of these pro-Palestinian,
[00:57:23] pro-Gazan, however you want to phrase it,
[00:57:26] rallies, these rallies that are demanding a humanitarian and peaceful solution
[00:57:35] to the conflict that's going on.
[00:57:38] If your intention is to be anti-Semitic,
[00:57:42] if your intention is to be a disruptive
[00:57:46] in the most evil negative sense,
[00:57:50] if you're going to be a disrupter,
[00:57:52] in the most evil negative sense,
[00:57:56] we don't need that either.
[00:58:01] That's not centered on responsibility.
[00:58:07] To understand the history of Jewish people
[00:58:11] is to understand that
[00:58:15] because of their faith,
[00:58:18] they have been treated differently. It doesn't matter
[00:58:21] what ethnicity they are.
[00:58:23] It doesn't matter what part of the globe they live in.
[00:58:28] Jewish people, as a whole,
[00:58:38] outside of their own community has been treated pretty bad.
[00:58:45] As a black person, I will never say that it's equal,
[00:58:54] but bad is bad.
[00:58:57] Right? As a black American, as an African American.
[00:59:00] I can't say that it's equal,
[00:59:05] but racism is racism.
[00:59:12] Discrimination is discrimination.
[00:59:15] So no matter what level it is, it's still bad.
[00:59:19] Right?
[00:59:25] Just because I am not of the Jewish faith
[00:59:29] doesn't make me anti-Semitic.
[00:59:31] Just because I disagree with Benjamin Netanyahu
[00:59:38] who should be in an Israeli prison
[00:59:41] instead of being the leader of a country
[00:59:44] doesn't make me anti-Semitic.
[00:59:47] Just because I don't agree with
[00:59:50] creating 2.5 million homeless persons
[00:59:58] and creating a man-made famine,
[01:00:02] my opposition to that does not make me anti-Semitic.
[01:00:06] What would make me anti-Semitic if I said
[01:00:14] things that were harmful to people of the Jewish faith?
[01:00:22] If the rhetoric of Mein Kampf
[01:00:26] or the rhetoric of those young men in Charlottesville
[01:00:30] was coming out of this podcast,
[01:00:35] that would be anti-Semitic.
[01:00:38] Right?
[01:00:44] So these young students who are speaking out against war,
[01:00:50] the overwhelming majority of them,
[01:00:53] whether it's the Columbia, USC, New York,
[01:00:57] Amory University, wherever they are gathered,
[01:01:00] they are carrying on an American tradition
[01:01:05] of speaking truth to power,
[01:01:09] of speaking peace and love
[01:01:13] to the powers that be.
[01:01:16] Compassion.
[01:01:18] Responsibility.
[01:01:20] But the danger is that no matter what side
[01:01:26] in the Black Lives Matter movement
[01:01:30] saw that in 2020,
[01:01:32] and Dr. King even saw it during the Civil Rights era
[01:01:37] and even the Nation of Islam,
[01:01:40] Black Panther Party, whatever,
[01:01:44] groups that have been trying to
[01:01:47] make sure that America lives up to its creed,
[01:01:50] that America lives up to its idealism,
[01:01:54] get infiltrated by bad actors.
[01:02:00] And one of the things that I have noticed,
[01:02:03] especially in New York, is that the mayor of New York
[01:02:06] and now even some conservative
[01:02:09] commentators have acknowledged that they are bad actors
[01:02:18] amongst these college students
[01:02:21] and it's given the college students a bad name.
[01:02:25] And they're trying to deal with them separately
[01:02:29] than what these young college students are doing.
[01:02:40] So, the responsibility for us
[01:02:43] is to listen to what the people of Goodwill are asking for
[01:02:49] and start trying to make some policy
[01:02:57] or take some action to not only acknowledge
[01:03:03] what they're saying, but to put it in effect
[01:03:08] and to drown out the bad actors.
[01:03:11] As I stated to my guest
[01:03:16] at Jackson State University when I was a freshman,
[01:03:20] the motto of the school was
[01:03:22] a verse from the book of John that said,
[01:03:25] you shall know the truth
[01:03:27] and the truth shall make you free.
[01:03:30] In America we may have certain beliefs
[01:03:39] but there's only one truth.
[01:03:42] We may have certain perceptions
[01:03:48] but there's only one justice.
[01:03:49] We may have different levels of comfort
[01:03:55] but there's only one true sense of equality and equity.
[01:04:00] And our goal
[01:04:08] should always be to seek truth,
[01:04:14] to seek justice
[01:04:16] and to practice equality and equity.
[01:04:19] Now we've got to go through all of the dialogue
[01:04:22] and all of the dialogue
[01:04:26] and all of the varying opinions,
[01:04:29] how to get there
[01:04:31] but that's what a Democratic Republic does.
[01:04:34] That's what a Constitutional Republic does.
[01:04:37] That's what a democracy does.
[01:04:39] They don't cater to authoritarianism.
[01:04:44] They don't embrace it.
[01:04:46] They don't embrace showboating
[01:04:49] and emperors with no clothes.
[01:04:53] They seek truth.
[01:04:55] They seek justice.
[01:04:57] They seek truth.
[01:04:59] They seek justice
[01:05:04] and a desire to effectively practice equality and equity.
[01:05:13] That's being centered in a moral responsibility
[01:05:22] and I really wish that all people did that.
[01:05:31] We know that some people are not going to do that regardless.
[01:05:35] We understand that evil exists in the world.
[01:05:37] Those of us of faith understand that there are natural forces and supernatural forces.
[01:05:44] One of the supernatural forces is evil.
[01:05:47] We get that.
[01:05:49] But our goal is to get more people on the side of good
[01:05:55] to tamp down, to trample,
[01:06:01] to defeat the forces of evil each and every battle.
[01:06:05] So I want my audience to pay attention to the positive message
[01:06:19] to the deliberate message that these students are trying to convey
[01:06:26] as it relates to the Israeli Hamas conflict
[01:06:31] and not get caught up in the evil anti-Semitic rhetoric.
[01:06:37] And I don't want you to get caught up in the anti-Islamic rhetoric.
[01:06:43] Islamophobia.
[01:06:46] It is even difficult for me to say the word.
[01:06:49] The Islamophobia that's out there to put a negative message on these college students
[01:07:00] because it's time for us as the protector of the world
[01:07:10] as the financial backbone of the world to exercise that right.
[01:07:18] And we need a leader that understands that responsibility and does it effectively.
[01:07:26] Donald Trump has proven time and time again he's not that guy.
[01:07:31] And despite what you say about Joe Biden's age and all that,
[01:07:36] I trust him to be more effective than the other guy.
[01:07:42] Now you will make that determination the first Tuesday of November 2024
[01:07:53] and I hope that the majority of Americans agree with me.
[01:07:59] I do have a fear and I do have a sense that there is a possibility
[01:08:07] that the other guy could win.
[01:08:09] But if you just look at all of the stuff that he's doing and saying,
[01:08:16] I don't see how people with rational thought would think that America will not be better off in an authoritarian state.
[01:08:30] America will not be better off if the Fed is not independent.
[01:08:35] America will not be better off if the Justice Department is not independent.
[01:08:43] And America will not be better off if we deported every person that has ever immigrated into the United States,
[01:08:55] especially from countries that have black and brown people.
[01:08:59] America will not be better off isolated from the rest of the world.
[01:09:05] America will not be better off if every community of white people decided to separate from a city that had black leadership.
[01:09:14] I'm talking to you, St. George, Louisiana, want to be St. George, Louisiana trying to leave Baton Rouge
[01:09:22] or creating districts within a city that's majority black like what the Mississippi legislature did to Jackson, Mississippi,
[01:09:45] or what people in Buckhead are trying to do here in Atlanta and it goes on and on.
[01:09:51] What we have to do is, despite our honest differences, is to work together.
[01:10:07] If you're coming from a premise that I don't want to be ruled by black people or brown people,
[01:10:14] if you're coming from a presence that I don't want to be replaced,
[01:10:19] if you're coming from a premise of hate and disdain for others that are not like you or from your community,
[01:10:30] then I don't have any respect or love for you in that regard.
[01:10:37] I will do everything in my power and I hope that others will join me in making sure that your voices will never achieve victory.
[01:10:50] But for everybody else that wants to coexist, we got to work at it and we got to have a center of responsibility.
[01:11:09] In order to make that happen.
[01:11:15] It's easy to fall into the trap because evil is tempting.
[01:11:22] Sounds kind of oxymoronic, but it's true.
[01:11:28] And those of us of faith origins understand that concept.
[01:11:33] For those who are not of a faith community,
[01:11:41] you still know what's good and what's evil.
[01:11:48] You still know what community is about as opposed to chaos.
[01:11:56] So regardless of whether you have a faith tradition or not,
[01:12:00] your center of responsibility should be toward building community
[01:12:06] and respecting other voices, positive voices rather than catering to evil ones.
[01:12:23] Because those people who are projecting evil thoughts and evil philosophies or whatever,
[01:12:31] our self-centered, they're not about community.
[01:12:36] We in the United States have to be about community.
[01:12:40] And our electoral process is the way that we express that we want community.
[01:12:49] So even if you've been frustrated with the process before,
[01:12:53] I need you to get centered, get focused and be willing to do the work.
[01:13:10] And the easiest thing you can do is to vote.
[01:13:16] If you believe that good should triumph over evil, then vote accordingly.
[01:13:25] Stop giving people that don't have the best interests of community at heart, a platform, a stronghold.
[01:13:45] That's where we are.
[01:13:50] Democracy is not easy. Community is not easy.
[01:13:56] But it's essential for our survival.
[01:14:00] So I just want you all to keep that in mind.
[01:14:07] Like I said, it's been a while since I've just taken time to just talk to you.
[01:14:14] If you want more commentary like that, always feel free to go to the Patreon page and do that.
[01:14:25] But I wanted to take this opportunity to do it since I only have one guest today.
[01:14:33] And I hope my listeners are clear on where I stand.
[01:14:43] With that, ladies and gentlemen, until next time.
[01:14:54] Thank you.