In this first episode of Season 12, Dr. Brittany Friedman, an American sociologist and author, discusses her book Carceral Apartheid and the fight against institutionalized racism in American prisons.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:01:20 --> 00:01:55 Music.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:02 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:07 And this was supposed to be a vacation week for me.
00:02:07 --> 00:02:14 It's still a vacation from my regular job, but I was going to take a break from the podcast too.
00:02:14 --> 00:02:21 I was going to, you know, just, I don't know, maybe do a greatest hits kind of thing or whatever.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 I don't know, just took the week off. I don't know.
00:02:25 --> 00:02:30 But fortunately, a guest that I had scheduled to come on earlier this year and
00:02:30 --> 00:02:35 couldn't make it was able to reschedule for around this time.
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 So I was very, very honored to have her to come on.
00:02:39 --> 00:02:44 And she's going to talk about her book and the research that led to this book
00:02:44 --> 00:02:48 and the subject matter that that is really, really timely,
00:02:48 --> 00:02:55 especially since it's dealing with our prison system. in the United States.
00:02:55 --> 00:03:00 So I was really, really glad that she was able to make that time to do that.
00:03:00 --> 00:03:04 And somebody I really had been anticipating on interviewing for a while.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:12 And so I hope that you appreciate the conversation that we were able to have
00:03:12 --> 00:03:17 and you get something out of it. And at the end of the day, get the book.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:25 So, we're kicking off season number 12 with this episode.
00:03:25 --> 00:03:29 And I guess that was kind of the way it was timed. That's why I was going to
00:03:29 --> 00:03:33 take a break in between the end of season 11 and this.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:37 But this is a great way to kick off season 12. I think this conversation,
00:03:37 --> 00:03:42 and she's going to be my only guest on this episode.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:46 But yeah, so we're into season 12 now.
00:03:46 --> 00:03:51 And we're going to keep going. and keep doing this, you know,
00:03:51 --> 00:03:57 I'm still on the lookout for 20 subscribers on patreon.com slash among with Eric Fleming.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:02 So, you know, whatever support you can give is great.
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00:04:18 --> 00:04:23 I would greatly appreciate that because I want to continue to have quality guests
00:04:23 --> 00:04:29 like the guests I'm having today and all the other folks that I've had on.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:35 And the lineup is, in my opinion, awesome. That's coming up.
00:04:35 --> 00:04:41 There's going to be some people that you have heard of on national and you may
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 have seen them on CNN or MSNBC or whatever.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:48 And then there's other folks that you don't know, but they're pretty awesome
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 people and they're doing some incredible work.
00:04:51 --> 00:04:55 And so I greatly appreciate them agreeing to come on.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:01 And I hope that you will appreciate the conversations we have once they're presented to you.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:05 So go ahead and go to patreon.com slash a moment, Erik Fleming,
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 subscribe, tell your friends, tell your neighbors,
00:05:08 --> 00:05:13 tell everyone, because like I say, in the opening monologue,
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 you know, we're trying to make this moment of movement, right?
00:05:17 --> 00:05:22 All right. So as always, we want to kick it off with my friend Grace G doing the news.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:27 So let's kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:33 Music.
00:05:34 --> 00:05:39 Thanks, Erik. Former Louisville police officer Brett Hankison was sentenced
00:05:39 --> 00:05:43 to 33 months in federal prison for violating Breonna Taylor's rights.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 Bernice King, daughter of Martin Luther King Jr., criticized the Trump administration
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 for releasing her father's assassination files.
00:05:52 --> 00:05:56 Civil rights advocates condemned the Jacksonville, Florida Sheriff's Department
00:05:56 --> 00:06:00 after a viral video showed officers punching and throwing a black man to the
00:06:00 --> 00:06:02 ground during a traffic stop.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:08 The Pentagon announced it is ending the deployment of 700 active-duty Marines to Los Angeles.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:13 President Trump has sued The Wall Street Journal and its owners for $10 billion,
00:06:14 --> 00:06:20 alleging defamation over a report linking him to a 2003 birthday greeting for Jeffrey Epstein.
00:06:20 --> 00:06:25 New Jersey federal court judges refused to extend the appointment of Alina Haba
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 as the state's top federal prosecutor.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:32 The Department of Justice is reportedly gathering information on voter rolls
00:06:32 --> 00:06:36 in several states ahead of the 2026 midterm elections.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio stated that the U.S.
00:06:41 --> 00:06:45 Can now deport lawful permanent residents who have supported Haitian gang leaders.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:51 Idaho has agreed not to prosecute or revoke the licenses of doctors who refer
00:06:51 --> 00:06:53 patients out of state for abortions.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:59 The Trump administration will release over $1 billion for after-school and summer
00:06:59 --> 00:07:04 educational programs, reversing an earlier freeze on K-12 school funding.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:09 The Democratic Republic of Congo and the M23 Rebel Group have committed to signing
00:07:09 --> 00:07:11 a peace agreement by August 18.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:17 A car crashed into a crowd outside a Los Angeles nightclub, injuring at least
00:07:17 --> 00:07:21 30 people, after which the driver was assaulted by onlookers and shot.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:27 Actor Malcolm Jamal Warner, known for The Cosby Show, died at the age of 54.
00:07:28 --> 00:07:35 And William Bill Clay Sr., Missouri's first black U.S. congressman, died at the age of 94.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:39 I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.
00:07:39 --> 00:07:45 Music.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:48 All right. Thank you, Grace, for
00:07:48 --> 00:07:53 that moment of news. Now it's time for my guest, Dr. Brittany Friedman.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:58 Dr. Brittany Friedman is recognized as an innovative thinker on how people and
00:07:58 --> 00:08:00 institutions hide harmful truths.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:05 Her current work examines this in the realm of social control and the underside
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 of government, such as prisons, courts and treasuries.
00:08:09 --> 00:08:14 Dr. Friedman is considered a path-breaking scholar producing big ideas that
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 blow the whistle on bad behavior within society.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:25 And author of a winter 2025 book titled Carceral Apartheid, How Lies and White
00:08:25 --> 00:08:26 Supremacists Run Our Prisons.
00:08:27 --> 00:08:34 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Dr.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:36 Brittany Friedman.
00:08:36 --> 00:08:46 Music.
00:08:47 --> 00:08:53 All right Dr. Brittany Friedman how you doing ma'am you doing good yes hi eric
00:08:53 --> 00:08:58 I'm doing good thank you well i am glad to see you and I'm glad we were able
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 to work this out where i could get you on,
00:09:01 --> 00:09:06 and talk about this you know this book that you wrote but more or less kind of the,
00:09:07 --> 00:09:13 the issue that you were addressing in the book, because it seems like you have
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 spent your whole life dealing with this particular issue.
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 So I want to kind of get into that a little bit.
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 But to start it off, I usually do a couple of icebreakers.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:29 So the first icebreaker is a quote. And the quote is, racism will disappear
00:09:29 --> 00:09:33 when it's no longer profitable and no longer psychologically useful.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:35 What does that quote mean to you?
00:09:36 --> 00:09:41 So I love that you start with this quote, because it's a quote that I quote
00:09:41 --> 00:09:43 one of the sections of my book.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:52 I've used that quote. And the reason being is because race does truly function as a weapon.
00:09:53 --> 00:09:59 And for me, how that occurs is, you know, when you want to conquer a people
00:09:59 --> 00:10:04 or population, you have to think of what are the best ways to do this?
00:10:04 --> 00:10:09 Well, we know historically division is one of the most powerful tools,
00:10:09 --> 00:10:16 but you can't divide a people unless you are able to convince people that one
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 population is undeserving of their existence.
00:10:19 --> 00:10:25 And one of the most successful ways you can do that is by creating labels.
00:10:26 --> 00:10:35 And these labels can vary from what a racial group is, to someone being perceived as a criminal,
00:10:35 --> 00:10:42 to, you know, someone being perceived as hysterical, right, insane, a behavioral problem.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:48 And it is this application of labels that then allows institutions,
00:10:49 --> 00:10:57 even individual people, to enact just extreme levels of violence under the guise
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 of fixing people or fixing society.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:07 And so I love that quote because it's just clear and to the point, right?
00:11:07 --> 00:11:13 When you hear it, you're immediately like, exactly, right? That is that is how race functions.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:24 It is why race was such a crucial part of European colonization is having these categories.
00:11:24 --> 00:11:29 So then we can create a hierarchy and justify the true evil that,
00:11:30 --> 00:11:31 you know, they were doing.
00:11:31 --> 00:11:36 Yeah. All right. So the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 So I need you to give me a number between one and 20.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:47 It's going to be seven. Okay. What do you consider the best way to stay informed
00:11:47 --> 00:11:54 about politics, current events, health, etc.? One of the best things we can do is two things.
00:11:54 --> 00:12:00 First, stay locked in and tuned in to people like yourself, right?
00:12:00 --> 00:12:06 People like yourself that are using their gifts to speak truth to power,
00:12:06 --> 00:12:15 that are using their sight and their vision to showcase with potent clarity
00:12:15 --> 00:12:18 what's happening in the world and in our communities.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:23 And then second, never stop reading. I always tell people, read everything.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:30 Don't just define yourself by a genre and be like, oh, I just read this. No, read everything.
00:12:31 --> 00:12:36 And, you know, some of the people I look up to in terms of thinkers,
00:12:36 --> 00:12:39 like that's what they did. They literally read every genre.
00:12:39 --> 00:12:44 They're reading fiction, nonfiction, poetry, you know, staying locked into art.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:49 Because by doing that, if you're in your full humanity of what you're consuming,
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 then you can actually see the full humanity of the world.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:58 You don't siphon your mind off into different categories.
00:12:58 --> 00:13:05 And so I would say those two things for me allow us to stay in our authenticity.
00:13:05 --> 00:13:09 And that's the key to being free, to freeing yourself.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:16 Okay. All right. So what was the inspiration you pulled from your grandmother? her?
00:13:17 --> 00:13:25 My grandmother, she was a fighter. She was a sharecropper before my mom was
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 born. My mom is the youngest of 12.
00:13:28 --> 00:13:34 So my grandmother, she was married off at a very young age. She was like 13.
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 She had a lot of trials that she had to overcome.
00:13:39 --> 00:13:43 Being married young, she had a lot of children, which
00:13:43 --> 00:13:48 is the norm at the time she was working as a sharecropper and in the boot hill
00:13:48 --> 00:13:53 which is where i have a lot of family of Missouri right next to Arkansas and
00:13:53 --> 00:13:57 every time i say boot hill i feel like my accent comes back it disappears but
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 when i talk about the boot hill it's like i i just come it just comes all the way back.
00:14:02 --> 00:14:06 And, you know, she was evicted.
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 And I talk about this in the prologue of my book because that image of her that
00:14:10 --> 00:14:16 I show, the image my family found in the Library of Congress of her being a
00:14:16 --> 00:14:18 part of this protest when she was evicted.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:22 And she's holding my aunt Nora, who's my mom's much older sister.
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 And she's, you know, she's just standing there. She's in the protest,
00:14:25 --> 00:14:29 all of their belongings, everything to their name on the side of the road.
00:14:29 --> 00:14:32 And when I see that, when I first saw it, it made me cry.
00:14:32 --> 00:14:36 Because I know that, you know, my grandmother, she just,
00:14:36 --> 00:14:43 she was forced to work so hard her whole life in the legacy of our ancestors
00:14:43 --> 00:14:50 that have been forced for generations, right, to have your body be used as a tool.
00:14:50 --> 00:14:54 You know, not having ownership of your body or agency over your body.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 And you know as a
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 black woman seeing my grandmother in that way
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 and the multi-faceted ways that she didn't have
00:15:02 --> 00:15:07 control over her body and her labor it just brought me to tears and then to
00:15:07 --> 00:15:11 see her holding my aunt an aunt that's now passed away but like I love my aunt
00:15:11 --> 00:15:15 Nora and seeing a little baby her like in my grandmother's arms it just made
00:15:15 --> 00:15:20 me cry because I know that now you know when night.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:27 Anytime I feel like, oh, I can't do it, or I feel just too beaten down,
00:15:27 --> 00:15:34 I think about my grandma, how strong she was, and then also she had a softness.
00:15:34 --> 00:15:41 That was a part of her rebellion too, is that she refused to let the world harden her.
00:15:42 --> 00:15:48 And she had a softness to her as well. And she really, for me,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:51 is the reason why I love to cook is because she taught my mom to cook.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:56 So that's something that I inherited from them is just like as a way of loving
00:15:56 --> 00:16:00 yourself and reclaiming your body. And she had a garden.
00:16:00 --> 00:16:04 I'm an herbalist. And so when I'm with plants and I teach my daughters about
00:16:04 --> 00:16:10 plants, I also think of my grandmother and all these ways that she existed.
00:16:11 --> 00:16:17 And so for me, you know, she represents what it truly means to rebel in all
00:16:17 --> 00:16:20 these ways while maintaining your true self.
00:16:20 --> 00:16:23 And she's always with me now. You know, she's an ancestor now,
00:16:23 --> 00:16:25 but she's always around.
00:16:25 --> 00:16:29 It's like when you ask that question, it's not a coincidence.
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 I looked at the clock, because I'm on Pacific time, and it said 11-11.
00:16:34 --> 00:16:35 I'm like, okay, Grandma.
00:16:36 --> 00:16:42 Yep. It was right at 11-11. have asked it. So she's always here.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:47 So I, that is what I take from my grandmother and I'm very grateful for her.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 And I wish I could have told her more of this when she was alive,
00:16:50 --> 00:16:52 but I know that she hears me now.
00:16:53 --> 00:16:58 Yeah. All right. So the book that you alluded to is called Carceral Apartheid,
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 How Lies and White Supremacists Run Our Prisons.
00:17:03 --> 00:17:11 So my question to you is, how did you come up with the term carceral apartheid?
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 And two, how long have you been researching this issue?
00:17:15 --> 00:17:20 So I came up with the term carceral apartheid because I was just so immersed
00:17:20 --> 00:17:22 in what I was discovering.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:28 I had collected all of these interviews with former Black political prisoners
00:17:28 --> 00:17:32 in California that, you know, had survived.
00:17:32 --> 00:17:41 What I lay out in my book was essentially a version of COINTELPRO in prison, but pre-COINTELPRO.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:47 Like I'm showing even farther back, there was this eugenics agenda to destroy
00:17:47 --> 00:17:53 Black people in the state of California that is also being exported out to other states.
00:17:54 --> 00:18:00 And being with those transcripts and also being with people and their families
00:18:00 --> 00:18:05 and then matching that to the archives that I just spent years in,
00:18:06 --> 00:18:13 I'm like, okay, so if I'm staying true to how people are describing their experience, this is apartheid.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:19 Like people are, and that's how people, maybe not using that word,
00:18:19 --> 00:18:26 but directly would say, like during my incarceration when I was disappeared in a solitary cell,
00:18:26 --> 00:18:34 I thought of how Nelson Mandela was incarcerated at the same time as me for
00:18:34 --> 00:18:36 being a freedom fighter like me.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:39 And so as I am thinking this through, I'm like,
00:18:39 --> 00:18:49 this is a broader system where prisons are still a tool of settler colonialism
00:18:49 --> 00:18:55 or conquering a people and containing people and removing them.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 And that is what apartheid is.
00:18:58 --> 00:19:05 And it's only possible through these carceral institutions, meaning through
00:19:05 --> 00:19:09 control, through jails, through prisons, through boarding schools,
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 which is a worldwide phenomenon, right?
00:19:12 --> 00:19:17 All indigenous populations, whether in Africa, US, Canada, Australia.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:21 Being snatched away as children from their homes and their families.
00:19:21 --> 00:19:27 And so I saw that connection once I really had the full picture.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:31 And I'm a very visual person. So I kind of had everything laid out so I could
00:19:31 --> 00:19:36 see it and like drawing connections. And I'm like, this is global.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 And I'm looking at a case of this. So what is it?
00:19:40 --> 00:19:48 This is apartheid, but it's carceral apartheid because the carceral states of
00:19:48 --> 00:19:53 these nations are what is doing the actual violent labor.
00:19:54 --> 00:19:58 That's what's actually maintaining apartheid and creating this system.
00:19:58 --> 00:20:06 And I wanted to center that to be true to what people articulated to me that
00:20:06 --> 00:20:08 they survived and how they survived it.
00:20:09 --> 00:20:13 Yeah. So how long have you been doing that? I mean, oh my goodness.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 I started this work in 2013.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 And so for a long time, you know, because you finish a book so much sooner than when it comes out.
00:20:22 --> 00:20:28 So I, like back in 2013, I mean, 2023, excuse me, when I was writing,
00:20:28 --> 00:20:30 I was at the end, I'm like, okay, it's been a decade.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 Now I'm like, that's not even true. It's like, it is 2025.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:42 We are well into 2025. So that is almost 12 years because I'm still going through
00:20:42 --> 00:20:46 everything that I collected and have because I couldn't put it in the book.
00:20:47 --> 00:20:52 And now I'm trying to figure out what to do with it all because it's just so much, you know?
00:20:53 --> 00:20:59 Yeah. Yeah. So why did you start the book with a couple of timelines?
00:21:00 --> 00:21:04 I started the book that way, you know, going back to what I was saying earlier,
00:21:04 --> 00:21:10 because I I wanted people to see these connections and I'm a very visual person and I felt like,
00:21:10 --> 00:21:16 you know, I could say it, but if people can see the timeline of what's happening
00:21:16 --> 00:21:23 concurrently in the United States at the same time as what's happening in the African continent,
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 what's happening in Europe,
00:21:27 --> 00:21:33 what's happening in Palestine and Israel, like if people can see this visually,
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 then it makes more of an impact.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:44 I find even with teaching, people remember the argument when they can see it too, not just hear it.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 Yeah, it was very compelling. It was like when I started looking,
00:21:48 --> 00:21:52 I was like, oh, wow, she's really like connecting dots with this thing,
00:21:52 --> 00:21:56 with the timeline. timeline is like the first timeline in America.
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 I was like, okay, cool. It is. Oh, that was the world timeline too. Oh, wow. Okay.
00:22:00 --> 00:22:05 Yeah. So I just wanted to kind of get you to articulate what was your thought process in doing that.
00:22:06 --> 00:22:10 Cause like you said, as a visual person, that, that really kind of tells a story.
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 Many classic books start with a profound opening sentence.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:21 Your opening sentence is, most major institutions in our lives are built on lies.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:23 And for this, we are all haunted.
00:22:24 --> 00:22:30 Why was that your opening statement? And what tone did you want that sentence to set for the book?
00:22:31 --> 00:22:39 I wanted to bring people into the shadows of all of the things that we take for granted.
00:22:39 --> 00:22:45 Because for one, we do take, and I say we as a collective, not us individually.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:52 But we as a human collective still often take prisons for granted as just a
00:22:52 --> 00:22:53 legitimate institution.
00:22:54 --> 00:23:01 But I wanted to really zone in on the fact that that's not the only institution we take for granted.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:07 We take for granted how our families are supposed to look without digging deeper
00:23:07 --> 00:23:12 to the fact that like, is this the way that our ancestors organized our families?
00:23:12 --> 00:23:18 Or is this the product of centuries of colonialism that now our families are
00:23:18 --> 00:23:22 organized this way? The same thing with institutions like marriage, which is related.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:31 Is this the actual template or is this a template that dates back to the inheritance
00:23:31 --> 00:23:36 of property and needing to have the quote unquote legitimate firstborn, right?
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 All of these things that debunk this whole myth of like, you find the one you
00:23:40 --> 00:23:44 love, you get married, it's a fairy tale. That's actually not the history of marriage.
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 That is not it. the the
00:23:48 --> 00:23:51 same thing in terms of uh religion right like
00:23:51 --> 00:23:56 is this actually promoting a true connection to whatever we hold dear as you
00:23:56 --> 00:24:03 know all of the different names we could use or is this in us an organized system
00:24:03 --> 00:24:09 that is hierarchical that allows for the concentration of power often gendered at the top,
00:24:09 --> 00:24:15 where everyone else is being told how they can be saved versus.
00:24:15 --> 00:24:19 Like, is that actually the original intention?
00:24:19 --> 00:24:22 If we go back to, you know, let's, I'll just use an example,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:25 the cult of Christianity, like, was that the intention?
00:24:25 --> 00:24:33 Or has this particular religion been shaped by centuries of nation-state building?
00:24:34 --> 00:24:38 And that's why, so that's how I think about things.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:44 I am now at a place where I try not to take things for granted when I see them,
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 just to see them at face value.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:53 And that's why I chose that sentence because really diving into my book requires you to do that.
00:24:54 --> 00:24:59 You have to discard everything you might have heard about certain people that are in the book,
00:25:00 --> 00:25:06 certain institutions and their intentions in order for you to actually be open
00:25:06 --> 00:25:12 enough to, I would say, have a fair opinion on its contents.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:16 Yeah. All right. I'm going to, I'm going to jump to chapter five and.
00:25:17 --> 00:25:22 Ask you to talk about the significance of the Soledad brothers and the Black
00:25:22 --> 00:25:26 guerrilla family in challenging this carceral apartheid system.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:31 I mean, I think that moment in history,
00:25:31 --> 00:25:39 right, where you have this shooting that happens in Soledad of three Black militant
00:25:39 --> 00:25:42 leaders and leaders in turn what I, you know,
00:25:42 --> 00:25:49 leaders meaning held a level of esteem within the population of incarcerated
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 Black people that are organizing for freedom on the inside.
00:25:53 --> 00:25:57 At the same time, right, we're talking late 60s, 1969,
00:25:58 --> 00:26:02 right, 1970, we're talking at the same time as we're seeing,
00:26:02 --> 00:26:10 you know, all of the ongoing still marches, the really heyday of Black power.
00:26:10 --> 00:26:18 And I wanted to show and articulate that even though we have this juggernaut
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 of a system that's coming with all this historical weight,
00:26:22 --> 00:26:30 right, at the same time, you have ingenuity, you have an organized response that's brewing.
00:26:30 --> 00:26:36 And with the murder in particular of W.L.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 Nolan, who I highlight, because he was just...
00:26:40 --> 00:26:44 It really came out in the interviews that I did and also in the archives,
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 like what he meant to the movement.
00:26:47 --> 00:26:55 And, and one of the key points, I think that sometimes isn't fully articulated is that, you know,
00:26:55 --> 00:27:01 his level of strategy to organize people across race was so key is what made
00:27:01 --> 00:27:07 him so threatening and why it was believed that he was targeted that day in
00:27:07 --> 00:27:14 Soledad to be shot and to be set up in this fight with white supremacists on the yard, right?
00:27:15 --> 00:27:21 And just before that, he had organized a petition and he got incarcerated people
00:27:21 --> 00:27:23 of all racial groups to sign it,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:28 saying, look, these are all the, basically, the human rights violations that
00:27:28 --> 00:27:31 have happened within the California Department of Corrections.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:35 This is the logic of that system. He laid it out.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:43 And, you know, I argue that it wholly lays even more proof to,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:48 you know, my claim that this is a carceral apartheid system because he lays
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 it out. He's like, this is by division.
00:27:50 --> 00:27:52 They are using like categories.
00:27:52 --> 00:27:58 They are doing they're segregating us, kind of trying to hold people in torturous
00:27:58 --> 00:28:00 conditions to break their mind.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 And then he's killed for it. He's murdered for it.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:12 And the co-founders of the Black Gorilla Family that I spent years with, you know,
00:28:12 --> 00:28:18 really articulated that that moment taught them that they have to live free
00:28:18 --> 00:28:23 or die trying, which is why I use that as a header in a section of the book,
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 because that was coming from the interviews.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:35 We saw that when you are able to unite people around the shared clarity that
00:28:35 --> 00:28:39 we are a prisoner class and that this is a prison state,
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 it's a prison nation and a prison world—.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:47 You will be executed for it. And I found, you know, in the archives,
00:28:47 --> 00:28:51 direct quotes from prison officials that would say, and I quote it in the book,
00:28:51 --> 00:28:53 they would say, we don't want to create martyrs.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:58 And it's because they were trying to hide what was going on intentionally because
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 they didn't want someone like W.L.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:04 Nolan to be a martyr because they knew that it would unite people.
00:29:04 --> 00:29:10 And that's what it did. It really shifted where incarcerated Black people that
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 were self-described as Black militants were like, we can no longer be separate.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:19 Yes, we can have our affiliations. You could be a nation of Islam.
00:29:19 --> 00:29:22 I could be a Panther, for example.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:27 But while we're here within the Department of Corrections, we are the Black guerrilla family.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:34 We're united right now. And we have to be. Otherwise, they will just keep picking us off in that way.
00:29:34 --> 00:29:40 And so that's what I took from that moment. And I did my very best to show it
00:29:40 --> 00:29:42 and not just articulate it.
00:29:42 --> 00:29:45 I wanted people to feel like they were there when they're reading it.
00:29:45 --> 00:29:50 And you can envision the feeling, you know, the feeling of what would it take
00:29:50 --> 00:29:57 to push a human being to that point where they're like, I have to organize myself or I will be murdered.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:01 Yeah. Well, you definitely do a good job in that.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:05 You know, as somebody that loves history, it was just, you know,
00:30:05 --> 00:30:10 how visceral it was to read that and feel like you were there,
00:30:11 --> 00:30:16 like you were witnessing that and you were in the meetings and you understood why the people were,
00:30:16 --> 00:30:21 I guess, rebelling for lack of a better term, but just trying to figure out
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25 how they're going to manage to survive in that instance.
00:30:26 --> 00:30:29 So So it was that was you did a great job in doing that.
00:30:30 --> 00:30:37 Explain the Ashker versus governor of California lawsuit, which was settled in 2015 and its impact.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:43 So, you know, this lawsuit, it's coming decades later.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:50 And what makes it so powerful is that it really showcases everything that the
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 black guerrilla family wanted to happen.
00:30:52 --> 00:31:00 They wanted this uniting of incarcerated people under one banner to say,
00:31:00 --> 00:31:07 we understand what the Department of Corrections is doing and the colonial logics that they're using.
00:31:07 --> 00:31:09 And we refuse, basically.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:11 We just refuse. And that's what happened.
00:31:11 --> 00:31:17 So starting in the 2010s, you have a series of hunger strikes and they come about because.
00:31:18 --> 00:31:24 Coming out of Pelican Bay, you have the leaders of all of the major prisoner
00:31:24 --> 00:31:29 organizations all sitting in isolation, all in solitary.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:35 The attorneys for that set of men did a brilliant job, in my opinion,
00:31:35 --> 00:31:41 of really publicizing their clients through their own voice and creating an
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 entire online archive, which you can find,
00:31:44 --> 00:31:48 which I encourage people to do and watch these videos so you can hear people
00:31:48 --> 00:31:54 articulate their own reasonings in their own voice, but articulating that, you know,
00:31:54 --> 00:32:02 there was a moment of just enlightenment, particularly for groups that had been antagonizing,
00:32:02 --> 00:32:06 especially antagonizing to the Black Gorilla family for years, that.
00:32:07 --> 00:32:09 Despite all of that, we all ended up here.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 Like, we're all here. we we've all
00:32:13 --> 00:32:18 been pawns of this system and
00:32:18 --> 00:32:20 and so they gave an order
00:32:20 --> 00:32:24 that we will no longer fight each
00:32:24 --> 00:32:29 other because we know that they're using us against each other they they published
00:32:29 --> 00:32:33 a statement that i encourage people to also look up after listening to these
00:32:33 --> 00:32:38 video interviews which are just so powerful the agreement to end hostilities
00:32:38 --> 00:32:42 is what the title they gave it which tells you everything and sign their names,
00:32:43 --> 00:32:44 you know, sign their names.
00:32:44 --> 00:32:49 So you can see like, we are the authority and we're saying, you know,
00:32:49 --> 00:32:51 to everyone, lay down your arms.
00:32:51 --> 00:32:53 This is not our, this is not our war.
00:32:53 --> 00:33:00 This is a war that was manufactured for us, for what I argue in my,
00:33:00 --> 00:33:05 in my book is for, it's as the ultimate means of control and exploitation.
00:33:05 --> 00:33:07 It's like playing puppet master.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:14 And so that lawsuit was, it's coming out of that movement, that big movement
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 of the agreement to end hostilities.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:22 And Ashker is Todd Ashker, you know, who had been identified actually as a leader
00:33:22 --> 00:33:23 in the Aryan Brotherhood.
00:33:23 --> 00:33:28 So his name is listed, but if you look, it's his name and the other names as well.
00:33:28 --> 00:33:33 And that lawsuit was one
00:33:33 --> 00:33:35 of the main goals there's many but one of the main goals
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 was to end indeterminate solitary in the
00:33:38 --> 00:33:46 chute and i think that what kind of eventually became of the lawsuit really
00:33:46 --> 00:33:53 shows you how even when the department of corrections is forced to settle right
00:33:53 --> 00:33:56 and is is forced to make concessions,
00:33:56 --> 00:34:00 they don't actually implement what they're ordered to do.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:05 So they were actually ordered, right, to develop a system of allowing people
00:34:05 --> 00:34:12 to come out of the shoe and to stop the racial segregation.
00:34:12 --> 00:34:18 And here we are still now in California, and many people argue that the conditions are worse.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:23 And even legal pushes against to say they're not doing what they're supposed,
00:34:23 --> 00:34:28 they're not actually implementing any court orders, you know, have been shot down.
00:34:28 --> 00:34:33 And so I think that we can take this as a case study of then where do we go
00:34:33 --> 00:34:38 now when you have this incredible movement from the inside led by incarcerated
00:34:38 --> 00:34:44 people uniting and then it goes through the courts and it culminates in this
00:34:44 --> 00:34:47 suit and this and the Department of Corrections is just like,
00:34:47 --> 00:34:48 nah, we're not gonna do it.
00:34:49 --> 00:34:55 Like, and then where's the, so then there's no sanctions on the Department of Corrections, right?
00:34:56 --> 00:35:01 And so that is unfortunately where we are right now in California.
00:35:02 --> 00:35:09 Yeah. So normally I don't do appendixes for my podcast, but so when you've heard
00:35:09 --> 00:35:13 the terms for the listeners, when you heard the term Soledad and Pelican Bay,
00:35:13 --> 00:35:16 those are prisons in California.
00:35:16 --> 00:35:24 And the shoe that Dr. Freeman is referring to is the security housing units that are in Pelican Bay.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:27 So when you heard Denzel in the movie Training Day, you know,
00:35:27 --> 00:35:29 you'd be playing basketball in Pelican Bay.
00:35:29 --> 00:35:32 That's what he was talking about for the listening.
00:35:33 --> 00:35:38 All right. So let's close this out. And I apologize.
00:35:38 --> 00:35:44 Well, I got a couple more questions, but I apologize because this book is really, really detailed.
00:35:44 --> 00:35:51 And a half hour is not really going to get into the media, but I wanted to highlight some things.
00:35:52 --> 00:35:59 And so you were talking about no sanctions or, you know, for folks not doing
00:35:59 --> 00:36:03 what the lawsuit or the settlement of the lawsuit requires.
00:36:03 --> 00:36:11 So at the end of your book, You wrote, our invitation to awaken demands an end
00:36:11 --> 00:36:14 to the heteropatriarchy, criminalization,
00:36:14 --> 00:36:20 racism, and surveillance that creates the conditions upon which cultural apartheid
00:36:20 --> 00:36:22 thrives domestically and globally.
00:36:22 --> 00:36:27 We will no longer be introduced to a fate bought and paid for with lies,
00:36:28 --> 00:36:31 white supremacy, and ultimately social control.
00:36:32 --> 00:36:38 Instead, we rewrite the past, create a new present, and envision a future where
00:36:38 --> 00:36:45 true joy is based in radical love and compassion, not profit and chasing fleeting heights.
00:36:45 --> 00:36:50 So my question to you is policy-wise, how do we accept that invitation?
00:36:51 --> 00:36:59 So there's a number of policies in the works or that have been tested and started in different states.
00:36:59 --> 00:37:03 And there's also global examples that I can point to.
00:37:03 --> 00:37:10 But to kind of narrow it down in the interest of time, I think I will focus on just a couple.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:16 So first and foremost, I think one of the main things that we can do literally
00:37:16 --> 00:37:25 immediately is abolish all fines, fees, and debt related to prisons in the criminal justice system.
00:37:25 --> 00:37:32 It's another area of my work is looking at social control through financial
00:37:32 --> 00:37:36 fees and burdens that are layered onto incarcerated people and their families.
00:37:36 --> 00:37:42 But what I have found in that work is that, and also in looking at some test
00:37:42 --> 00:37:49 cases where some jurisdictions have provided debt amnesty, for example, like they'll just say,
00:37:49 --> 00:37:54 okay, all your court fines, fees from that criminal case, they're gone.
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 And shown the significant impact
00:37:57 --> 00:38:01 that has on our community, specifically communities of color, right?
00:38:02 --> 00:38:08 And the freedom and the sense of not having that debt and not having the risk
00:38:08 --> 00:38:10 of that debt ruining also your credit,
00:38:10 --> 00:38:14 all the financial consequences, I would just say immediately,
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 like if there's something that we can all get behind,
00:38:17 --> 00:38:23 irregardless of our politics, like tomorrow would be abolishing that debt.
00:38:23 --> 00:38:29 It would be abolishing the ability to financially profit from someone's incarceration
00:38:29 --> 00:38:32 in a cage. And those are two parts, right?
00:38:32 --> 00:38:36 They're not the same thing, but they're highly correlated.
00:38:37 --> 00:38:43 And what I mean by the second one is the allowance for bidding on private contracts,
00:38:44 --> 00:38:47 not just with private prisons, because the majority of our prisons in the United
00:38:47 --> 00:38:48 States are actually public.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:52 And so what we, yes, private prisons are a problem.
00:38:53 --> 00:38:57 We also should be very concerned about the fact that our public prisons have
00:38:57 --> 00:39:03 all of these private bidding and contracts that allow for this capitalist exploitation
00:39:03 --> 00:39:05 of incarcerated people.
00:39:06 --> 00:39:11 And those are the two things immediately. Another, I know I said two and I keep going,
00:39:11 --> 00:39:17 but there has been significant policy pushes that happen,
00:39:17 --> 00:39:22 especially during the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic, that shows that we can
00:39:22 --> 00:39:28 reduce our prison population significantly should we choose to.
00:39:28 --> 00:39:32 And I can just give this case of when I was living in New Jersey.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:35 I was in New Jersey in 2020, right?
00:39:35 --> 00:39:41 When, you know, the tri-state, we were all shut, like, on lockdown pretty early in the pandemic, right?
00:39:41 --> 00:39:45 And New Jersey was one of the states that had significant numbers in terms of
00:39:45 --> 00:39:50 rates of COVID spreading amongst incarcerated people, and then deaths.
00:39:50 --> 00:39:55 Some very notable deaths, and particularly I'm thinking of Tiffany Mofield's
00:39:55 --> 00:39:59 death in solitary with COVID in the women's prison in New Jersey. It was horrific.
00:39:59 --> 00:40:04 And so we see the governor at the time, Murphy, he does start passing this really
00:40:04 --> 00:40:08 innovative legislation, at least for the time, releasing people,
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 allowing a significant mass release.
00:40:11 --> 00:40:15 And so it's like, that tells me as an abolitionist, like we can do it.
00:40:15 --> 00:40:21 Like if you actually want to think of ways to significantly reduce our current
00:40:21 --> 00:40:23 prison population, we can.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:29 And it shouldn't take people dying in a horrific way through a pandemic for
00:40:29 --> 00:40:32 us to say, oh, we could do that now.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:36 That tells me that these are human beings that could have been free sooner.
00:40:36 --> 00:40:39 They could have been free much sooner than this moment if we're just going to
00:40:39 --> 00:40:45 do the mass release, right? And it kind of just disrupts our whole notion of
00:40:45 --> 00:40:48 like, then why were they still there in the first place?
00:40:48 --> 00:40:53 What are the incentives that kept them there before, you know,
00:40:53 --> 00:40:57 it was a political fallout, and so then you have to release them because it's a pandemic?
00:40:58 --> 00:41:01 So those are the questions I want people to think through. It's like,
00:41:01 --> 00:41:04 you know, what are the incentives?
00:41:04 --> 00:41:09 How can we, these are the policies I'm talking about are disrupting the incentives
00:41:09 --> 00:41:13 of incarceration, of mass incarceration, the financial incentives,
00:41:13 --> 00:41:14 the political incentives.
00:41:14 --> 00:41:22 And I tried to highlight, you know, some examples that have successfully done that in recent years.
00:41:22 --> 00:41:25 And it's something, you know, especially on the financial end,
00:41:25 --> 00:41:28 my research lab, the Captive Money Lab,
00:41:28 --> 00:41:34 We're doing a lot of work around prison pay to stay and disrupting and repealing
00:41:34 --> 00:41:39 the financial incentive to actually charge people daily rate fees,
00:41:39 --> 00:41:41 which is what we're studying.
00:41:41 --> 00:41:44 So I have tried to lay out a few things. There's so many more,
00:41:45 --> 00:41:46 but I know I can't get into them all.
00:41:48 --> 00:41:51 Yeah, well, that's understood. So what do you want?
00:41:51 --> 00:41:56 I usually ask most authors when they come on this question, what do you want
00:41:56 --> 00:42:01 the reader of this book to take away from it? I want people to feel empowered.
00:42:01 --> 00:42:06 The reason why I ended the book with the invitation to awaken is because I wanted
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09 people to reclaim their power.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:17 Because this world, it is a prison planet in the sense that the world tries
00:42:17 --> 00:42:21 to convince people from an early age, through our social institutions,
00:42:21 --> 00:42:23 through school, family, community.
00:42:24 --> 00:42:27 The way that religion is done through personal relationships,
00:42:27 --> 00:42:33 through, right, the carceral state, that we're helpless little beings that can't
00:42:33 --> 00:42:36 think for ourselves. And it's just not true.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:40 Human beings are, we're miraculous beings.
00:42:40 --> 00:42:44 We have ingenuity. We have the ability to be resilient, yes,
00:42:44 --> 00:42:46 but we're exceptionally creative.
00:42:46 --> 00:42:51 And we're also not supposed to be disconnected from the natural world.
00:42:51 --> 00:42:55 That's something I learned in my own family's heritage through my grandmother, right?
00:42:56 --> 00:43:01 That's something I prioritize now is teaching my children how to have a loving
00:43:01 --> 00:43:07 relationship with the earth versus a relationship that is based on forced labor and exploitation.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:13 And so that is what I want people to now, especially, you know,
00:43:13 --> 00:43:21 people of color, is really like grounding into our sense of power and sovereignty
00:43:21 --> 00:43:22 and what that means individually,
00:43:23 --> 00:43:25 but also collectively.
00:43:25 --> 00:43:29 Because for me, I can also just highlight like one
00:43:29 --> 00:43:32 of the most healing kind of reclaiming my
00:43:32 --> 00:43:39 power processes that I went through personally was spending the last year from
00:43:39 --> 00:43:47 2024 through early 2025 in an herbalist apprenticeship surrounded by the majority
00:43:47 --> 00:43:52 of women and non-binary people of color and many Black herbalists.
00:43:52 --> 00:43:59 And it was just a very healing experience because we spent a lot of time talking
00:43:59 --> 00:44:05 and also practicing with our actions like abolition in that space and what does
00:44:05 --> 00:44:07 that mean for the everyday.
00:44:07 --> 00:44:12 And I loved it because it took me out of the academy in a way that was very beautiful.
00:44:12 --> 00:44:19 And so that's just, you know, I'm still processing that, but I want more spaces for us like that.
00:44:20 --> 00:44:24 And I miss that space, to be honest, all the time. I'm like,
00:44:24 --> 00:44:26 I wish we had our weekly meeting still.
00:44:28 --> 00:44:33 Yeah. So that's what I encourage people to do is how can you free yourself?
00:44:33 --> 00:44:36 Right. How, what does that mean to you?
00:44:36 --> 00:44:40 What are things in your life that you have to let go? What are people, relationships?
00:44:40 --> 00:44:45 That's what I really believe. It's like abolition. It starts as an internal process.
00:44:46 --> 00:44:50 All right. All right. So, Dr. Brittany Friedman, first of all, thank you for coming on.
00:44:51 --> 00:44:57 How can people get Carceral Apartheid, how lies and white supremacists run our
00:44:57 --> 00:45:02 prisons, and how can people reach out to you to either talk about the book or
00:45:02 --> 00:45:03 just pick your brain about stuff?
00:45:03 --> 00:45:10 You can get your copy of Carceral Apartheid pretty much anywhere online and
00:45:10 --> 00:45:12 at your local bookstore.
00:45:12 --> 00:45:17 And I have found if your local bookstore, if it doesn't have a copy of my book,
00:45:17 --> 00:45:22 if you tell them they will get copies in, we have to support independent booksellers.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:27 Some of my favorite that have an online presence where you can order my book
00:45:27 --> 00:45:33 online and support Black-owned independent bookstores are Harriet's Bookshop.
00:45:33 --> 00:45:34 They have an online store.
00:45:35 --> 00:45:39 Marcus Books, the oldest Black-owned bookstore in the country,
00:45:39 --> 00:45:41 has my book in-store and online.
00:45:42 --> 00:45:46 And Reparations Club here in LA, they have an online store and they have it in-store.
00:45:47 --> 00:45:52 So I highly encourage you to support, you know, your independent booksellers.
00:45:52 --> 00:45:57 And then if you want to chat with me or find me, my handle is the same everywhere.
00:45:57 --> 00:46:00 So luckily it is at Curly Professor.
00:46:00 --> 00:46:07 My favorite place, I like Blue Sky right now, but I am on Instagram and I am on X.
00:46:08 --> 00:46:12 Just, yeah, I'm on X still, but you can find me on the other places.
00:46:12 --> 00:46:14 And my website is BrittanyFriedman.com.
00:46:14 --> 00:46:19 Yeah, well, Dr. Freeman, don't feel guilty about X. I'm still on it, too. Thank you, Eric.
00:46:19 --> 00:46:25 I do it primarily for the podcast, but yeah, I'm still on there.
00:46:25 --> 00:46:33 But again, just thank you for coming on. I really, really appreciated being able to read this book.
00:46:34 --> 00:46:39 And it got me going into some of the other stuff that had happened,
00:46:39 --> 00:46:43 like with George Jackson and then the Attica prison.
00:46:43 --> 00:46:47 Because, you know, I was like a baby, basically. I was like,
00:46:47 --> 00:46:50 you know, preschool when all this stuff was going on.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:53 But I remember images, right? And being a student of history,
00:46:54 --> 00:46:57 it's like, you know, in the culture, Attica's always there and,
00:46:57 --> 00:47:00 of course, Pelican Bay and San Quentin and Soledad.
00:47:00 --> 00:47:07 So you kind of bring a lot of that home and I'm glad you really kind of got
00:47:07 --> 00:47:11 me energized into looking into it a little more.
00:47:11 --> 00:47:14 So I appreciate that. And again, thank you for coming on.
00:47:14 --> 00:47:18 Thank you, Erik. That means so much to me. I appreciate it. All right, guys.
00:47:19 --> 00:47:37 Music.
00:47:40 --> 00:47:47 All right, and we are back. So I want to thank Dr. Brittany Friedman for coming on.
00:47:48 --> 00:47:57 As stated, my plan was to take a break and be on vacation, but I've been wanting
00:47:57 --> 00:47:59 to get this sister on for a while,
00:48:00 --> 00:48:08 and we worked it out where she could come in and do the interview and I hope
00:48:08 --> 00:48:10 that you got something from it.
00:48:10 --> 00:48:14 As I said during the interview, we really only scratched the surface.
00:48:14 --> 00:48:19 I suggest that you get this book, Carceral Apartheid, and read it for yourself.
00:48:21 --> 00:48:26 And hopefully there'll be a follow-up to that.
00:48:26 --> 00:48:32 We just kind of talked about some of the research that she wasn't able to put in the book. All right.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:37 But I just, I really thank her for coming on.
00:48:38 --> 00:48:41 And again, like I said, I hope y'all appreciate it.
00:48:41 --> 00:48:45 And I'm a little frustrated, not with her,
00:48:45 --> 00:48:52 but the subject matter she talked about in dealing with white supremacy and
00:48:52 --> 00:48:58 lies is not just confined to our penal institutions.
00:48:58 --> 00:49:01 And it's really not just confined to white folks.
00:49:02 --> 00:49:11 Right? Because any system of oppression to be successful has to have buy-in
00:49:11 --> 00:49:13 by some of those that are oppressed.
00:49:14 --> 00:49:18 And there always has to be a face behind it.
00:49:19 --> 00:49:23 So, you know, I have this bad habit.
00:49:25 --> 00:49:32 Of paying attention to social media. Now, the main reason is because of the podcast.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:35 You know, I try to market it and put it out there.
00:49:37 --> 00:49:42 And so I have to have my presence on all of these platforms.
00:49:43 --> 00:49:48 And a lot of these platforms I really don't like, but, you know, it's open.
00:49:49 --> 00:49:55 So anybody that's got an opinion, just like the podcast gives me an opportunity
00:49:55 --> 00:49:58 to have an opinion, social media gives these people an opportunity to have an
00:49:58 --> 00:50:01 opinion, and it is what it is.
00:50:02 --> 00:50:05 So, you know, I was really watching.
00:50:06 --> 00:50:08 It was something, I don't know
00:50:08 --> 00:50:13 how old this was, but it was a black congressman who was a Republican.
00:50:13 --> 00:50:16 I believe he's from Texas. I don't know. I can't remember.
00:50:17 --> 00:50:27 But he was making the argument that Kamala Harris was a DEI person.
00:50:27 --> 00:50:32 He was those talking points that white supremacists used. This black man was using it.
00:50:33 --> 00:50:36 And he was talking about the fact, well, she doesn't have my qualifications.
00:50:36 --> 00:50:40 I went to West Point and...
00:50:42 --> 00:50:47 Know, I got represented district that's, you know, majority white and they voted
00:50:47 --> 00:50:51 for Donald Trump with 20 points and 26.
00:50:52 --> 00:50:56 And so they're saying that these people were racist, that he wouldn't have won.
00:50:57 --> 00:51:02 And it's like, you know, if I was the interviewer, I would have asked them,
00:51:03 --> 00:51:06 so how many people are in the state of California?
00:51:07 --> 00:51:10 How many congressional districts are in the state of California,
00:51:11 --> 00:51:14 right? Is California a majority white state?
00:51:15 --> 00:51:22 Because, you know, if you answer those questions, then you should understand
00:51:22 --> 00:51:26 that your argument is specious, let alone stupid,
00:51:26 --> 00:51:34 about Kamala Harris, because you got elected in a district of 700, well, 750 people.
00:51:35 --> 00:51:39 She got elected in the largest state in the nation to be their U.S. senator.
00:51:40 --> 00:51:45 So just on GP, she's gotten more votes in one election than you've probably
00:51:45 --> 00:51:46 gotten in your whole life.
00:51:47 --> 00:51:51 And not only that, she was the attorney general for the state of California.
00:51:51 --> 00:51:56 So again, she has gotten more votes in one election than you've gotten in your whole life.
00:51:57 --> 00:52:00 And she got to be the vice president of the United States. So she was on a presidential
00:52:00 --> 00:52:05 ticket, which definitely got more votes than you'll ever get in your lifetime.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:12 Right? Now, I expect a white person like a Scott Jennings or a Kevin Leary or
00:52:12 --> 00:52:20 whatever, Brian Todd or Charlie Kirk or any other despicable white man you can think of, right?
00:52:21 --> 00:52:27 But for a black man to say it, it's just stupid, right?
00:52:28 --> 00:52:33 It's invidious, right, for a man to say that.
00:52:34 --> 00:52:43 And it really bothers me because it's like, you don't have to agree on policy positions.
00:52:44 --> 00:52:48 You know, I think Thomas Sewell is one of the smartest men ever to live.
00:52:48 --> 00:52:51 And we don't agree on stuff.
00:52:51 --> 00:52:54 And it took him a minute to get to his point of view.
00:52:55 --> 00:52:58 Because at one point in time, you understand his background,
00:52:58 --> 00:53:01 you understand mine. We were pretty similar in thought.
00:53:02 --> 00:53:04 And we're not that far apart.
00:53:04 --> 00:53:10 But considering his life experiences compared to mine, I understand why he has
00:53:10 --> 00:53:11 taken a different route.
00:53:12 --> 00:53:17 But I would never hear Thomas Sowell say anything negative about me as a black
00:53:17 --> 00:53:22 man or question my credibility or my credentials, nor will I do the same to
00:53:22 --> 00:53:25 him. We just disagree on stuff, right?
00:53:26 --> 00:53:30 But for a black man to belittle another black person, let alone a black woman.
00:53:31 --> 00:53:34 And yeah, y'all can throw in, she's also Southeast Asian, whatever.
00:53:35 --> 00:53:37 She's a black woman. She's a woman of color.
00:53:38 --> 00:53:46 And for you to use the white folks' arguments about her is terrible, right?
00:53:47 --> 00:53:52 Just man up and just say you disagree with her political viewpoints and keep it moving.
00:53:52 --> 00:53:57 But to use their talking points, that's not manning up at all.
00:53:58 --> 00:54:05 And it's just painful for me to hear that, right?
00:54:06 --> 00:54:14 And then the other day, so Donald Trump shows up at the Federal Reserve, right?
00:54:14 --> 00:54:19 Now, he's trying to make a show plus other things, and I'll get into that in
00:54:19 --> 00:54:23 a second, I promise. Because I know I say I'm going to jump on something and
00:54:23 --> 00:54:26 then I don't get back to it. But I'm going to definitely get back.
00:54:27 --> 00:54:31 And so he shows up in the Federal Reserve, and he's got Chairman Powell with
00:54:31 --> 00:54:36 him, and he's got Tim Scott, Senator of South Carolina, with him, right?
00:54:36 --> 00:54:44 And so Trump was there to try to embarrass Powell in front of the press about
00:54:44 --> 00:54:47 how much it's costing to renovate the Fed.
00:54:48 --> 00:54:54 Although if you've read other stories, Trump tried to interject in how the Fed
00:54:54 --> 00:55:00 was being renovated and wanted to put in like, you know, like marble and other things,
00:55:00 --> 00:55:05 which would have ran up the cost even more, but he wanted to embarrass the chairman.
00:55:07 --> 00:55:14 And so when he throws out how much it's costing, the chair looks at him and
00:55:14 --> 00:55:17 says, yeah, I don't think that's right. I haven't heard that.
00:55:18 --> 00:55:22 So Trump's pulled out of this sheet of paper and he gives it to the chairman.
00:55:22 --> 00:55:25 And the chairman looks at the sheet of paper and he says, oh,
00:55:25 --> 00:55:28 you're factoring in something that's already done.
00:55:29 --> 00:55:32 And of course, Trump can never be wrong. And he's like, oh, no,
00:55:32 --> 00:55:33 no, that's what it says in the paper.
00:55:33 --> 00:55:41 He said, yeah, the building you're talking about that raises the cost up another
00:55:41 --> 00:55:46 $400 million is being completed five years ago.
00:55:46 --> 00:55:49 So this was done before you were even president.
00:55:50 --> 00:55:56 Or if you, well, I take that back. It was done in your first administration, right?
00:55:57 --> 00:55:58 Now, Powell didn't say that. I'm saying it.
00:55:58 --> 00:56:04 If it was done five years ago, then that was when Trump was in his last year as president.
00:56:04 --> 00:56:10 So it was during his administration that this first phase of his project happened.
00:56:11 --> 00:56:15 And so now Trump is trying to complain, saying, oh, well, it caused more than
00:56:15 --> 00:56:21 what you're saying on here. He said, no, this is running on schedule because
00:56:21 --> 00:56:22 this was the biggest phase.
00:56:23 --> 00:56:30 And to tie in with the Wesley Hunt thing, that was the congressman from Texas I was referring to.
00:56:31 --> 00:56:37 Here comes Tim Scott saying, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw it says 3.1. Actually, it says 3.2.
00:56:38 --> 00:56:44 Brother. And we've had our conversations. I know I'm just a small fish in the
00:56:44 --> 00:56:47 pond. You don't feel you have to respond to it. That's great.
00:56:47 --> 00:56:50 You don't ever have to talk to me in life, right?
00:56:51 --> 00:56:56 You've embarrassed yourself enough trying to be president, trying to marry somebody.
00:56:56 --> 00:57:01 Doesn't even matter if she was a white woman. You just got married thinking
00:57:01 --> 00:57:03 that you were going to be president or at least vice president, right?
00:57:04 --> 00:57:09 And here you are, Trump's trying to make a fool of this man and you're down with that.
00:57:09 --> 00:57:12 Oh, yeah, yeah. You're going to be the peanut gallery. Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:57:13 --> 00:57:16 Stop doing that, right?
00:57:17 --> 00:57:22 Stop doing that. You know, I get it. Ambition is blinding.
00:57:23 --> 00:57:25 Power is enticing. I get it.
00:57:26 --> 00:57:32 And you want to do anything you can to maintain what you got or move up somewhere.
00:57:32 --> 00:57:35 Maybe you'll get a cabinet position. Maybe you won't. I don't know.
00:57:36 --> 00:57:40 And maybe you might get to be president or vice president. I don't know.
00:57:41 --> 00:57:44 But I just suggest that y'all man up about it, right?
00:57:44 --> 00:57:51 I'm trying to get away, or I've gotten away from the name-calling part of it.
00:57:51 --> 00:57:54 But it's still a problem.
00:57:55 --> 00:58:04 It's still a problem for me to see people not be men and women in this process,
00:58:04 --> 00:58:08 that they're petulant children, that's a problem with me.
00:58:08 --> 00:58:13 If Donald Trump wants to be a petulant child, a spoiled brat, then let him do that.
00:58:13 --> 00:58:18 He's almost, he's 80-something years old. Let him have that, right?
00:58:18 --> 00:58:25 He ain't going to change. But you young folks, if you really want to gain respect,
00:58:25 --> 00:58:29 if you really want to get more than half of the population on your side,
00:58:30 --> 00:58:31 be men and women about it.
00:58:32 --> 00:58:37 And please stop tearing down people that look like us, right?
00:58:37 --> 00:58:42 I don't have a problem with groups that push for reparations.
00:58:43 --> 00:58:47 What I do have a problem with is that you think that you have to destroy other black people.
00:58:47 --> 00:58:51 I don't care if they're from Ghana. I don't care if they're from Cameroon.
00:58:51 --> 00:58:52 I don't care if they're from the Caribbean.
00:58:53 --> 00:58:57 I don't care if they're from Detroit, Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, Jackson.
00:58:58 --> 00:59:03 You don't have to tear down other black people to make your argument. Make your argument.
00:59:03 --> 00:59:08 The chips will fall where they may. But nobody's going to take the argument
00:59:08 --> 00:59:12 serious if part of your strategy is to destroy other black people.
00:59:13 --> 00:59:16 You'll never get that. But that's my advice.
00:59:17 --> 00:59:21 Right? And some of y'all have been in the political game. Some of y'all have
00:59:21 --> 00:59:23 been in the entertainment business.
00:59:24 --> 00:59:30 You know that solidarity gets us over. Talent will go to you so far.
00:59:31 --> 00:59:33 Solidarity gets you over the hump.
00:59:34 --> 00:59:39 That's been the strength of black folks, right?
00:59:40 --> 00:59:44 And not everybody's going to get on board, but if you get the majority of them,
00:59:44 --> 00:59:47 if you have the will of the majority of the people behind you,
00:59:48 --> 00:59:54 if you have the goodwill of black people behind you fighting for black issues, you're going to win.
00:59:55 --> 00:59:59 I know people are tired of singing, We Shall Overcome, but unfortunately,
00:59:59 --> 01:00:01 the song is still relevant.
01:00:01 --> 01:00:04 You may not want to sing it anymore, but we still have to overcome.
01:00:05 --> 01:00:10 We still have battles to fight. If that was the case, then we wouldn't have
01:00:10 --> 01:00:12 a situation like Breonna Taylor.
01:00:12 --> 01:00:14 We wouldn't have a situation like Sandra Bland. We wouldn't have a situation
01:00:14 --> 01:00:22 like George Floyd or Philando Castile or just Rodney. who wouldn't keep having
01:00:22 --> 01:00:25 these situations if we have totally overcome, right?
01:00:28 --> 01:00:34 So that's my personal gripe. If you want to be a fool, you're a fool.
01:00:35 --> 01:00:42 But if you want to be a man and a woman and be an adult in the political game, then be one.
01:00:43 --> 01:00:48 You don't have to agree with me. You don't have to agree with Vice President
01:00:48 --> 01:00:50 Harris. You don't have to agree with President Obama.
01:00:50 --> 01:00:55 You don't have to agree with any Democrat of color.
01:00:55 --> 01:00:58 But respect the journey that got us to where we are.
01:00:59 --> 01:01:05 Respect the fact that all of us have done something worthy of having our opinions
01:01:05 --> 01:01:07 and our voices to be heard.
01:01:08 --> 01:01:13 If we're not trying to minimize your qualifications, don't minimize ours. Right?
01:01:14 --> 01:01:21 I think it's incredible that two black men that were in the same class at West
01:01:21 --> 01:01:24 Point are now both members of Congress.
01:01:24 --> 01:01:26 Doesn't matter that they're both Republicans.
01:01:27 --> 01:01:30 It is what it is. It's an amazing achievement.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:35 And to be honest, three people in the class, that same class,
01:01:35 --> 01:01:38 are now members of Congress. It's just that the Democrat is a white guy.
01:01:39 --> 01:01:44 But three members of one class in West Point are now serving the United States
01:01:44 --> 01:01:45 Congress. That's an achievement.
01:01:46 --> 01:01:50 And there's a bond between them that will never be broken.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:55 Right? That's something to be celebrated. But if I turned around and said,
01:01:56 --> 01:01:58 well, you know, the two black guys, they were DEI.
01:01:58 --> 01:02:03 The white guy was qualified, but y'all two just got in and y'all had to sleep
01:02:03 --> 01:02:06 in the Robert E. Lee barracks. You'd be upset.
01:02:07 --> 01:02:12 So why would you think that black folks wouldn't be upset if you disqualified
01:02:12 --> 01:02:14 another black person? Right.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:17 You ain't got to agree with our politics.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:22 But stop disparaging the character of other black people. Right. Right.
01:02:24 --> 01:02:29 Man. I just, I just, that's just aggravating. But now let me get back to the president,
01:02:30 --> 01:02:37 because that whole thing with Powell and now we're reliving the greatest hits
01:02:37 --> 01:02:44 and saying that Obama was treasonous and Joe Biden did this and the dog did
01:02:44 --> 01:02:46 that and the cat did this.
01:02:46 --> 01:02:49 And, you know, all these other things that are happening right now,
01:02:49 --> 01:02:55 you're trying to make a deal with a convicted sex offender just so you will
01:02:55 --> 01:02:58 get your name cleared, right?
01:02:58 --> 01:03:04 This is not reality TV, ladies and gentlemen. This is really happening. This is real life.
01:03:05 --> 01:03:12 And, you know, we have a president that is allergic to accountability.
01:03:12 --> 01:03:15 It's not that he doesn't know what it is. He's allergic to it.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:21 He will never be accountable for anything he's done, good or bad.
01:03:22 --> 01:03:28 Because if he thinks something is good and then a few years later it bites him
01:03:28 --> 01:03:32 in the butt, he's going to deny being involved with it, right?
01:03:32 --> 01:03:38 He's picked cabinet members who have already destroyed his complaint before
01:03:38 --> 01:03:39 he even makes the complaint.
01:03:40 --> 01:03:43 Can we say Marco Rubio, right? Right.
01:03:45 --> 01:03:51 Tell one reporter, well, I think Tulsa Gabbard is wrong, and she's the director
01:03:51 --> 01:03:52 of national intelligence.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:57 She's trying to tell you that the action you're getting ready to take is not
01:03:57 --> 01:03:59 based on any evidence we have found.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:09 You say she is wrong, but she's right when she says that Barack Obama committed treason.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:14 And when that same reporter that you told Tulsa Gabbard was wrong,
01:04:14 --> 01:04:17 you turn around and when she says,
01:04:17 --> 01:04:21 well, don't you think that she's just trying to curry favor with you,
01:04:22 --> 01:04:28 trying to show that she's on the team by doing this little stunt for you, right?
01:04:29 --> 01:04:30 And folks want to get upset.
01:04:32 --> 01:04:38 It's called accountability, Mr. President. Mr. President, it's when you took
01:04:38 --> 01:04:42 that position, and this is the second time you've had it, At some point,
01:04:42 --> 01:04:45 you need to understand that Harry S.
01:04:45 --> 01:04:50 Truman's rule applied before he was president and it applies now. The buck stops with you.
01:04:51 --> 01:04:56 And whatever happened in your life prior to being president is all about you.
01:04:56 --> 01:05:00 If you were friends with Jeffrey Epstein, you were friends with him.
01:05:01 --> 01:05:07 Regardless of what he did or what he's accused of doing, he's dead.
01:05:07 --> 01:05:11 So he's not going to be accountable anymore. Not on this realm anyway.
01:05:12 --> 01:05:18 But you're still with us. And you have to be responsible for your actions.
01:05:18 --> 01:05:26 If you knew, then you knew. And you can do like any other criminal and try to deny that you did it.
01:05:26 --> 01:05:29 That's fine. Or you can be accountable.
01:05:30 --> 01:05:34 If you weren't part of it, then you weren't part of it. If you are part of it.
01:05:36 --> 01:05:41 Let us know what's going on. And if you weren't part of it, but you do things
01:05:41 --> 01:05:47 that make you think that you were like, hey, let me know. Right.
01:05:48 --> 01:05:53 Speaking about accountability. So one of the jokes I tell is I have a friend
01:05:53 --> 01:05:55 who was a member of the FBI.
01:05:56 --> 01:06:00 And when I was elected official, I would joke with her and tell her, hey, look.
01:06:01 --> 01:06:06 You know, if they ever start looking into me, you let me know.
01:06:06 --> 01:06:09 And she was like, I can't do that. I said, you better let me know.
01:06:10 --> 01:06:12 That was a joke because she can't.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:16 She might be the agent assigned to the case. She can't let me know.
01:06:16 --> 01:06:19 But we knew it was a joke, right? Right.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:23 President Trump doesn't think that's a joke. He thinks that he's supposed to
01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 know if he's under investigation or if his name comes up in a criminal.
01:06:28 --> 01:06:32 You're not supposed to know that. And the attorney general is definitely not
01:06:32 --> 01:06:33 supposed to be the one to tell you.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:38 You don't put that on the attorney general because the attorney general is only
01:06:38 --> 01:06:41 appointed by you. They're not your lawyers.
01:06:41 --> 01:06:47 If you want your lawyers to work for you, then just let them build their own
01:06:47 --> 01:06:48 little firm in Washington.
01:06:49 --> 01:06:54 Since you wanted to neuter a law firm in Washington, D.C., you should have just
01:06:54 --> 01:06:59 told them, make all these people partners in the firm. So that way,
01:06:59 --> 01:07:02 if someone went down with you, they would do that.
01:07:02 --> 01:07:05 And maybe down the line when all these folks are out of office,
01:07:05 --> 01:07:07 maybe that is part of the deal. I don't know.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:13 Other than getting the money and doing pro bono cases and whatever, right? Right.
01:07:15 --> 01:07:20 All these different things you're throwing out here, and you're following Steve
01:07:20 --> 01:07:22 Bannon's playbook to the T,
01:07:22 --> 01:07:30 just flood the zone with stuff, and you got poor folks on MSNBC and CNN and
01:07:30 --> 01:07:35 Fox all having debates about all your distractions when the focus should be
01:07:35 --> 01:07:41 about your involvement with a human trafficker.
01:07:41 --> 01:07:44 Either you were involved with it or you were not.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:48 All this other crazy stuff you're doing to try to deflect from that,
01:07:49 --> 01:07:50 people see it for what it is.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:58 Now, the folks that are going to defend you no matter what, they're going to
01:07:58 --> 01:07:59 do their part. They're going to be the cheerleaders.
01:07:59 --> 01:08:05 They're going to recite the stupid stuff in front of intelligent people.
01:08:06 --> 01:08:11 But, you know, if it wasn't for ratings, Scott Jennings would not be on CNN,
01:08:12 --> 01:08:17 right? He'd be working at Fox because that's where that mindset is.
01:08:17 --> 01:08:21 If you want to be cheerleaders for the president, totally biased,
01:08:21 --> 01:08:23 then you need to work for a network that's like that.
01:08:26 --> 01:08:29 CNN, they want to get a share of the Fox group.
01:08:31 --> 01:08:35 So they allow people like Scott Jennings and Kevin Leary, which again,
01:08:35 --> 01:08:40 Kevin Leary is not even a citizen of the United States. So why is he even in the discussion? Right.
01:08:41 --> 01:08:47 The only time he should be on is about either business news or immigration,
01:08:47 --> 01:08:50 since he's I guess he's on a visa.
01:08:50 --> 01:08:53 I don't know. He's not an American citizen. He's Canadian.
01:08:54 --> 01:08:58 And he has a citizenship with UAE, Dubai. Right.
01:08:59 --> 01:09:02 This in the United States, but we give him, he doesn't even vote.
01:09:03 --> 01:09:08 And we give him cash aid to have discussions about American politics,
01:09:08 --> 01:09:12 like almost every night. Doesn't make any sense.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:18 But it's for entertainment. It's for ratings. It's not for intelligent discussion.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:23 There are a number of people, Democrat and Republican, that you could put on
01:09:23 --> 01:09:29 TV shows and have political discussions that are intelligent people,
01:09:30 --> 01:09:38 civil people, but TV news is not for news anymore. It's for entertainment.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:43 It's no different than watching Survivor, if that's still on,
01:09:43 --> 01:09:46 or Dancing with the Stars or whatever.
01:09:47 --> 01:09:52 You know, when I want to watch news that I like, I watch MSNBC.
01:09:53 --> 01:10:00 If I want to get the whole story, then it's like the BBC and Reuters,
01:10:00 --> 01:10:05 whoever, read AP, whatever, Snoops or Snopes, right?
01:10:06 --> 01:10:13 But not, you know, if I'm trying to build my arguments, then I'm going to listen
01:10:13 --> 01:10:16 to the folks at MSNBC because they're on my side, Right?
01:10:17 --> 01:10:26 And I make no secret about my allegiance and my history with the Democratic Party. It is what it is.
01:10:26 --> 01:10:31 Right? And folks, black folks and white folks can criticize me for that.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:34 That's fine. That's my life. You know?
01:10:35 --> 01:10:39 I'm just like the athlete that plays for one team their whole career.
01:10:39 --> 01:10:42 Been a Democrat my whole political career.
01:10:42 --> 01:10:45 So that's my mindset. Right?
01:10:45 --> 01:10:51 But when Democrats do something stupid, like Bob Menendez or Bill Clinton, we call them out on it.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:57 Part of my legacy in politics was that I was not afraid to call out the Democratic
01:10:57 --> 01:11:00 governor I had the privilege of serving under for four years.
01:11:00 --> 01:11:03 Or other Democratic elected officials.
01:11:03 --> 01:11:05 Probably to my detriment.
01:11:06 --> 01:11:10 Because in-house fighting is worse than street fighting.
01:11:11 --> 01:11:17 But the difference between me and some of these folks that are now in positions,
01:11:17 --> 01:11:22 selected positions, is that focus is not about currying favor with folks that
01:11:22 --> 01:11:24 are trying to destroy me.
01:11:24 --> 01:11:29 It's about defending the people that need my help, right?
01:11:29 --> 01:11:34 There are people in Texas, there are people in South Carolina that need your
01:11:34 --> 01:11:37 full attention, gentlemen, not the guy in the White House.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:41 He could care less about what you do, how you do it, how you say it.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:52 There's people in Florida, people in Indiana, Kansas, South Dakota that really need help.
01:11:54 --> 01:12:00 Sure that they can live their lives. People in Georgia, people in Mississippi,
01:12:00 --> 01:12:02 there's people, Illinois, there's people that need help.
01:12:04 --> 01:12:11 And worrying about who's in what file and, you know, all these different things,
01:12:12 --> 01:12:14 which, by the way, that was a pretty low thing to do.
01:12:14 --> 01:12:22 Speaking about files, I'm glad that Reverend Bernice and Martin III publicly
01:12:22 --> 01:12:26 chastised the president for what he did in releasing their dad's files.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:30 Part of the distraction, flood the zone strategy, right?
01:12:31 --> 01:12:35 You know, but people are more concerned about when I get up this morning.
01:12:36 --> 01:12:39 Is it going to be safe for me to drop my kids off at school?
01:12:40 --> 01:12:45 Is there a school for my child to go to? Are the roads going to be safe?
01:12:45 --> 01:12:49 Are the bridges going to be safe for me to cross? getting to work?
01:12:49 --> 01:12:52 Will I even have a job at the end of the day?
01:12:52 --> 01:12:55 Will my business close? Will I get laid off?
01:12:56 --> 01:13:02 If I get sick, will I be able to afford the health care that I need?
01:13:03 --> 01:13:10 When I go to the store to try to feed my family, will I be able to get everything I need to feed them?
01:13:11 --> 01:13:14 Will there be a park for my kids to play in?
01:13:15 --> 01:13:18 Do I have to worry about crime in my neighborhood?
01:13:19 --> 01:13:24 These are what people care about every day. Can I keep my house?
01:13:25 --> 01:13:29 Are the laws there to protect me or to hinder me?
01:13:29 --> 01:13:32 Can I afford increases in my tax rates?
01:13:33 --> 01:13:38 Or will I have to sell this house that My family's been in for 40 years just
01:13:38 --> 01:13:42 because they want to create a walkway nearby.
01:13:43 --> 01:13:47 These are real conversations. These are real concerns that people are having.
01:13:47 --> 01:13:52 If my car breaks down, will there be public transportation for me to get to work?
01:13:52 --> 01:13:56 Can I afford an Uber or a Lyft?
01:13:57 --> 01:14:00 Right? These are real questions that people deal with every day.
01:14:01 --> 01:14:04 If I get a job, can I afford childcare? here?
01:14:05 --> 01:14:09 If I can't get any government assistance, then where can I go?
01:14:10 --> 01:14:15 These are the questions that people need answers to, not who's on what file.
01:14:15 --> 01:14:20 If you know you did a crime, the best advice,
01:14:20 --> 01:14:29 is to not say anything about it, not create more mess, not try to say,
01:14:29 --> 01:14:32 well, if I'm a criminal, Everybody's a criminal. That's not how that works.
01:14:34 --> 01:14:40 If you want to distract the American people from any bad stuff you may have
01:14:40 --> 01:14:42 done in your life, then do something good.
01:14:43 --> 01:14:47 Instead of making tax cuts for rich people that you want to hang around with
01:14:47 --> 01:14:54 permanent, make the tax cut on tips and overtime permanent. Right?
01:14:55 --> 01:14:59 If that's what you want to do, raise the minimum wage.
01:15:00 --> 01:15:07 And not just the $15. That ship sailed five, six years ago. You got to raise it to $20 now.
01:15:07 --> 01:15:12 You know, when the bailouts were happening, you said, Mr. President,
01:15:12 --> 01:15:14 that, well, businesses should fail.
01:15:14 --> 01:15:23 But if a business can't afford to pay somebody $20, you want to accommodate that, right?
01:15:24 --> 01:15:28 I just think we've got our priorities mixed up.
01:15:28 --> 01:15:36 I think we're all about entertaining and being destructive instead of being,
01:15:37 --> 01:15:39 serious and being productive.
01:15:41 --> 01:15:47 And that's, and we've got to get in back into that direction. We got to get serious.
01:15:47 --> 01:15:50 We want to be entertained. We've got sports.
01:15:51 --> 01:15:56 We've got music. We've got movies. All right. Got,
01:15:57 --> 01:16:02 We have poetry readings. That's entertaining.
01:16:03 --> 01:16:08 People that are supposed to be making decisions about how our society operates,
01:16:08 --> 01:16:10 that's not about entertainment.
01:16:10 --> 01:16:12 That's serious business.
01:16:13 --> 01:16:17 And instead of trying to destroy your opponent, just beat them.
01:16:17 --> 01:16:24 Just beat them fair and square. You don't have to redraw lines and alter voting
01:16:24 --> 01:16:29 machines and algorithms and all. Just go out to people and say,
01:16:29 --> 01:16:32 hey, I'm the best person for this job because.
01:16:33 --> 01:16:37 And if people say yes, then it was meant for you to have it.
01:16:37 --> 01:16:41 If the people say no, you find another way to contribute.
01:16:42 --> 01:16:46 But you don't destroy the system because you didn't get your way.
01:16:48 --> 01:16:53 Literally, I got to close this out. But, you know, I dealt with this firsthand
01:16:53 --> 01:16:55 like an organization I was in.
01:16:56 --> 01:17:01 The chapter would have an election, and then the person who didn't win would
01:17:01 --> 01:17:05 go and start a whole new chapter just so they could be in charge of something.
01:17:05 --> 01:17:07 That's not how this works.
01:17:08 --> 01:17:11 And there was no money involved with that, right?
01:17:11 --> 01:17:17 There were no trillions of dollars in play on that. It was just ego.
01:17:18 --> 01:17:24 And that was petty. And that's all this is now at a national level.
01:17:24 --> 01:17:26 And there are trillions of dollars in play.
01:17:26 --> 01:17:30 And you letting mad men make policy.
01:17:31 --> 01:17:35 We got to kick 3 people out of the country every day. Really?
01:17:36 --> 01:17:40 I mean, I haven't done the math, but I don't think that equates to 20 million.
01:17:41 --> 01:17:45 That's the number y'all keep throwing out about how many people undocumented.
01:17:46 --> 01:17:50 I don't think you can kick out 20 million people in a year. Amen.
01:17:51 --> 01:17:57 I don't know. That might work out on a daily basis, but you're not going to
01:17:57 --> 01:17:59 arrest 3 people in a day.
01:17:59 --> 01:18:04 Regular police departments in major cities don't meet that threshold every day
01:18:04 --> 01:18:09 for real criminal stuff, you know.
01:18:09 --> 01:18:13 And then you're cheating because it's like if the people are at the courthouse
01:18:13 --> 01:18:17 trying to get their situation straight, right?
01:18:17 --> 01:18:22 That's just like arresting somebody in immigration court trying to get their
01:18:22 --> 01:18:30 status squared away. It's just like you're in court dealing with a traffic ticket for insurance.
01:18:31 --> 01:18:34 You didn't have insurance at the stop, so you go to court.
01:18:36 --> 01:18:39 Now, at that point, you're before the judge, right?
01:18:40 --> 01:18:45 So the officer can't turn around and give you another ticket for not having
01:18:45 --> 01:18:47 insurance while you're in court, right?
01:18:48 --> 01:18:52 They can't arrest you or in some state.
01:18:52 --> 01:18:55 In Georgia, it's an arrest when you write a ticket. But, you know,
01:18:55 --> 01:19:00 they can't write you another ticket because you're in court dealing with the issue.
01:19:00 --> 01:19:07 So why is ICE allowed to go in and arrest people that's in immigration court?
01:19:08 --> 01:19:12 Because you're trying to meet a quota. That's insanity. That's the sign of a madman.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:17 And you're trying to cater to madmen and madwomen.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:23 It's time for us to get serious and productive about our politics.
01:19:24 --> 01:19:29 And if black folks are going to be the contents of it, and the last thing we
01:19:29 --> 01:19:34 need to do is to tear each other down just because we're on opposite sides.
01:19:36 --> 01:19:40 All right, that's all I got. Thank y'all for listening. Until next time.
01:19:40 --> 01:20:29 Music.