In this episode, political analyst and governmental affairs professional Jordan Colvin talks about the importance of bipartisanship. Then, Bremond MacDougall and Lisa Cooper announce the release of the inaugural books from their publishing company, Quite Literally Books.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:56 Music.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:02 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:03 --> 00:02:06 And today I have three ladies coming on.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:11 Two of them have worked together on a project to create a publishing company
00:02:11 --> 00:02:17 that has a very unique niche that I think you as listeners would greatly appreciate,
00:02:17 --> 00:02:20 especially those of you who are politically minded.
00:02:20 --> 00:02:27 Although the works are fiction, they have some relevance, especially in today's
00:02:27 --> 00:02:29 society. So I think you'll enjoy that.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:37 And then I have a young lady who is really a star in D.C. politics.
00:02:37 --> 00:02:40 You may have seen her on CNN.
00:02:40 --> 00:02:46 And if you're part of that D.C. political scene, you probably run into her on
00:02:46 --> 00:02:55 the Hill somewhere, or, you know, some of the functions, but she is a very special person,
00:02:56 --> 00:03:03 and she attracted my attention because she is a believer in bipartisanship.
00:03:04 --> 00:03:12 So the theme of this podcast is bipartisanship and revival, two things that
00:03:12 --> 00:03:17 we greatly need in this nation. We need to have a spirit of bipartisanship and
00:03:17 --> 00:03:19 we need to have a spirit of revival.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:25 And when I mean revival, I mean a revival of what is good and what is great
00:03:25 --> 00:03:29 about our nation as opposed to anything else.
00:03:30 --> 00:03:37 So I wanted to interview these ladies and I was given the opportunity to do
00:03:37 --> 00:03:41 show and I hope that you enjoy the conversations.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:50 As always now, we are still making our pitch to get 20 subscribers on Patreon.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:57 So go to patreon.com slash a moment with Erik Fleming and subscribe. It's only a dollar.
00:03:58 --> 00:04:03 And I promise you, I promise you, if we can get to 20000 subscribers,
00:04:03 --> 00:04:07 this podcast will go on as long as y'all want me to go.
00:04:07 --> 00:04:14 I think this will, you know, it will definitely last through this term for our current president.
00:04:15 --> 00:04:20 And, you know, and hopefully we'll bring on some quality guests like you've
00:04:20 --> 00:04:28 got on today and, you know, stir up some discussion and keep you informed about what's going on.
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 We need as much encouragement as we possibly can.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:40 And I'll probably get into a little bit of that toward the end of the show,
00:04:40 --> 00:04:46 as always, with a little commentary. But it's really now time to kick this thing off.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:52 And as always, we start off the podcast with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:04:54 --> 00:04:59 Music.
00:04:59 --> 00:05:04 Thanks, Erik. President Trump stated he would not fire Federal Reserve Chair
00:05:04 --> 00:05:09 Jerome Powell, but reiterated demands for lower interest rates. The U.S.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 Supreme Court temporarily blocked
00:05:12 --> 00:05:16 deportations of Venezuelan migrants following urgent ACLU petitions.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:22 Nationwide protests erupted for the second time this year against Trump's deportation
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 policies, government firings, and foreign conflicts.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:31 Senator Dick Durbin announced his retirement, sparking a 2026 Democratic primary
00:05:31 --> 00:05:35 battle in Illinois as the party debates its future direction.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:40 The Justice Department abruptly ended over 365 grant-supporting programs for
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 crime victims, anti-trafficking efforts, and youth safety.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:48 A federal appeals court rejected the Trump administration's request to revoke
00:05:48 --> 00:05:54 temporary protections for 350 Venezuelan migrants. The U.S.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:58 Department of Education will resume collecting defaulted student loans starting
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 May 5, impacting over 5 million borrowers.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:06 A judge halted mass firings at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau after
00:06:06 --> 00:06:11 allegations the Trump administration violated court orders by dismissing up
00:06:11 --> 00:06:13 to 90 percent of its workforce. A U.S.
00:06:14 --> 00:06:17 Judge blocked parts of President Trump's executive order on federal election
00:06:17 --> 00:06:22 rules, preventing enforcement of citizenship checks for voter registration but
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 allowing restrictions on late mail-in ballots.
00:06:25 --> 00:06:30 An Illinois judge sentenced Robert Cremo III to life in prison without parole
00:06:30 --> 00:06:35 for a 2022 mass shooting that killed seven and injured over 40.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:41 Patrick Crucius, the 2019 El Paso, Texas Walmart shooter, received life without
00:06:41 --> 00:06:43 parole after pleading guilty to murder charges.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:49 A federal judge blocked the Trump administration from dismantling U.S.-funded
00:06:49 --> 00:06:51 media outlets like Voice of America.
00:06:51 --> 00:06:57 A federal jury in Manhattan ruled the New York Times not liable in Sarah Palin's
00:06:57 --> 00:07:01 2017 defamation lawsuit over a gun control editorial.
00:07:02 --> 00:07:10 Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico have reached 687, and Pope Francis died at the age of 88.
00:07:11 --> 00:07:15 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:22 Music.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 All right, thank you, Grace, for that Moment of News.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:30 And now it is time for my guest, Jordan Colvin.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:36 A powerful government public affairs expert recognized for her exceptional ability
00:07:36 --> 00:07:42 to develop breakthrough strategies and bipartisan solutions and consensus.
00:07:43 --> 00:07:46 Jordan has built a decades long reputation in Washington, D.C.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:51 With her deep understanding of politics and policy and her ability to advance
00:07:51 --> 00:07:53 legislative agendas on both sides of the aisle.
00:07:53 --> 00:07:57 She is the rare professional who prepares clients with discipline and insight,
00:07:58 --> 00:08:02 establishing meaningful relationships with legislators, their staff,
00:08:02 --> 00:08:06 executive branch agencies, and private sector stakeholders.
00:08:07 --> 00:08:11 Jordan began working with private sector clients after serving as legislative
00:08:11 --> 00:08:18 director for Democratic Congressman Josh Gottheimer from the 5th District, New Jersey,
00:08:18 --> 00:08:22 where she led the congressman's robust portfolio of bipartisan work on the House
00:08:22 --> 00:08:27 Financial Services and Homeland Security Committees and chairmanship of the
00:08:27 --> 00:08:29 bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus.
00:08:30 --> 00:08:34 During her tenure, Congressman Gottheimer introduced the bipartisan,
00:08:35 --> 00:08:39 a bicameral Invest to Protect Act, which passed in both chambers.
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 Jordan has also served as the legislative director for a Republican member of
00:08:43 --> 00:08:50 Congress and as a policy advisor and investigator for the United States Senate
00:08:50 --> 00:08:52 Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs.
00:08:53 --> 00:08:58 She also served on the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Homeland Security as a law clerk.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:03 Jordan's previous professional roles include working with both private sector
00:09:03 --> 00:09:08 clients and professional trade associations to develop effective government
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 and stakeholder engagement strategies.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:16 In 2018, Jordan served as the campaign manager for a political campaign that
00:09:16 --> 00:09:20 won the Democratic nomination in Maryland's first congressional district,
00:09:20 --> 00:09:24 which set record for voter turnout and fundraising.
00:09:24 --> 00:09:29 She has also served as a chief of development for a veteran service organization
00:09:29 --> 00:09:36 and vice president of public affairs for a public for a political advocacy organization.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:42 Earlier in her career, Jordan worked as a police officer, FBI task force on
00:09:42 --> 00:09:46 human trafficking at the Washington Metropolitan Police Department.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:51 In 2020, Jordan worked on the Biden for President campaign as a Veterans and
00:09:51 --> 00:09:54 Military Families for Biden event coordinator.
00:09:54 --> 00:09:58 Jordan is the founder and current board member of the Association of Service
00:09:58 --> 00:10:00 Dog Providers for Military Veterans,
00:10:00 --> 00:10:06 a nonprofit whose mission is to advocate on behalf of veterans service organizations
00:10:06 --> 00:10:12 to help military veterans heal from trauma by pairing them with psychiatric service dogs.
00:10:13 --> 00:10:18 In 2021, President Biden signed into law the PAWS Act, legislation that Jordan
00:10:18 --> 00:10:23 developed on the Hill and the impetus for launching ASDP-MV.
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 Jordan holds a Juris Doctorate from the David A.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:31 Clark School of Law at the University of the District of Columbia and a Bachelor
00:10:31 --> 00:10:33 of Arts from the George Washington University.
00:10:33 --> 00:10:38 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:10:38 --> 00:10:41 on this podcast, Jordan Colvin.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:52 Music.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:57 All right. Jordan Colvin. How you doing, ma'am? You doing good?
00:10:57 --> 00:11:01 I'm good. How are you today? I'm doing great now that you're here.
00:11:01 --> 00:11:05 I greatly appreciate you taking the time to come on my little old podcast and
00:11:05 --> 00:11:10 share some of your wisdom and some of your story.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:19 Because I ran across you, one, on CNN, and then you're part of a group called
00:11:19 --> 00:11:23 the Permitting Institute, which is fascinating.
00:11:23 --> 00:11:29 So I'll let you talk a little bit about that and a whole bunch of other things,
00:11:29 --> 00:11:31 whatever we can fit into in the interview.
00:11:32 --> 00:11:37 But usually I like to, being an old facilitator, I like to do icebreakers.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:42 So my first icebreaker is a quote that I want you to respond to.
00:11:42 --> 00:11:46 And this one's pretty long, but I felt it was pertinent to the conversation.
00:11:47 --> 00:11:54 The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge,
00:11:55 --> 00:12:00 natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetuated
00:12:00 --> 00:12:06 the most horrid enormities, is itself frightful despotism.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism,
00:12:10 --> 00:12:16 that its orders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men
00:12:16 --> 00:12:20 to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual.
00:12:20 --> 00:12:26 And sooner or later, the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more
00:12:26 --> 00:12:31 fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his
00:12:31 --> 00:12:34 own elevation on the ruins of public liberty.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 I know that was a lot, but what does that quote mean to you?
00:12:39 --> 00:12:43 Wow, Erik. You know, I was a cop.
00:12:44 --> 00:12:50 I was a beat cop my first job. So I was not a, you know, I took poli-sci in
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 college. I'm trying to wrap my head around this.
00:12:53 --> 00:12:58 So the first part of it, I was really listening in on I think it was talking
00:12:58 --> 00:13:01 about dissension and polarization.
00:13:01 --> 00:13:07 It was identifying themes of that and inter-party strife, which I think is relevant.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:13 I, you know, I, I'm Jewish. I'm, I'm an Ashkenazi Jew.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:19 So I'm very sensitive from my family's experiences in history.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 My vast majority of my family died in the Holocaust in Eastern Europe.
00:13:23 --> 00:13:28 A few people made it to Israel, some, some, and the ones that were here are okay, obviously.
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 But looking back at the history and seeing the, the
00:13:32 --> 00:13:36 similarities in things in American politics
00:13:36 --> 00:13:39 right now and i don't like alarmism and i don't like
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 direct comparisons to the holocaust of
00:13:42 --> 00:13:46 anything that exists today everything in its own unique place but
00:13:46 --> 00:13:52 it never gets anywhere and it does foment dissension it doesn't it doesn't bring
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 anybody together it doesn't get anything accomplished i think that that's sort
00:13:55 --> 00:13:59 of the simple end of it that that's what i'm picking up from that very complex
00:13:59 --> 00:14:03 which i will want to if you can email that to me after i'd like to like take that apart.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 Yeah. You know, you went to George Washington University. So I picked a quote
00:14:08 --> 00:14:09 from George Washington.
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 That was from his farewell address.
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 And it's one that is used a lot to talk about.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:25 He didn't like political parties. He basically felt that political parties would
00:14:25 --> 00:14:27 be the demise of the nation.
00:14:27 --> 00:14:34 He said, you know, it's just vote for the best individual rather than vote, you know, party line.
00:14:35 --> 00:14:39 So, and that, and they, a lot of scholars say that's the reason why he didn't
00:14:39 --> 00:14:43 want to run for a third term because he saw that coming.
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 Yeah. But I'll, I'll send you that. That'll be, that'll be good.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 So the second icebreaker is I need you to pick a number between one and 20.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:59 Seven. Okay. What do you consider the best way to stay informed about Politics,
00:15:00 --> 00:15:04 current events, health, et cetera. Oh, wow.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:11 I think that a broad variety, I love a good sub stack.
00:15:12 --> 00:15:16 I have found my, I listen to a lot of different podcasts.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:21 I listen to a lot of clips from the Times of London, Al Jazeera,
00:15:22 --> 00:15:27 just all over the world, trying to listen that are done in English or are translated
00:15:27 --> 00:15:29 in to get different perspectives.
00:15:29 --> 00:15:33 BBC, Times of London, always very interesting how they approach things,
00:15:33 --> 00:15:37 especially in Ukraine right now and the Middle East.
00:15:38 --> 00:15:47 I think good old school news sources combined with there's some great journalists
00:15:47 --> 00:15:52 out there who are working solo now that are doing incredible work.
00:15:52 --> 00:15:53 Tara Palmieri is a friend of mine.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 She's she's out there doing political stuff. She covers things.
00:15:58 --> 00:16:04 There's you know I follow she's doing her own thing now you know being in DC
00:16:04 --> 00:16:07 you interact with a lot of journalists and you sort of understand who who you
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09 think is savvy and has integrity,
00:16:10 --> 00:16:16 and you shift towards them so I consume a lot and I use discernment and judgment
00:16:16 --> 00:16:21 as to what informs my opinions or thoughts so you were talking about that you
00:16:21 --> 00:16:23 were originally a law enforcement officer.
00:16:24 --> 00:16:30 And so I have a law enforcement background, too. So how did you get into politics?
00:16:32 --> 00:16:37 I worked, when I left college, I went to GW, as you mentioned, in D.C.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:40 I had done a bunch of internships at federal law enforcement agencies.
00:16:40 --> 00:16:44 And so I wanted to be, I thought at that point, I wanted to be a federal agent.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 And they said the best way to do that is go work for a local police department.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:50 So I thought, local police department, that's D.C. police.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:56 So I joined the D.C. Police Department. And I was very, very quickly put on
00:16:56 --> 00:17:02 what was at the time the prostitution enforcement unit, which has since changed
00:17:02 --> 00:17:03 the name to the human trafficking department.
00:17:04 --> 00:17:08 And they were part of the FBI's task force against human trafficking,
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 which was Project Innocence Lost. I believe it's still an active task force with the FBI.
00:17:13 --> 00:17:22 I saw how terrible the policy was for victims of trafficking in every respect.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:30 You had to arrest children, primarily young girls of color, predominantly.
00:17:31 --> 00:17:36 You had to arrest them in order to get them into services. We had to give them a criminal charge.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 Now, these are children. They cannot sign a permission slip to go on a field
00:17:40 --> 00:17:45 trip for school, but we're charging them with solicitation of prostitution.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:49 I could not wrap my brain around that.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:54 And at the time, there was a 50-state effort with the attorney generals,
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 the bipartisan attorneys generals group, I forget their name,
00:17:58 --> 00:18:03 to decriminalize prostitution for children because,
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 I mean, it doesn't make sense.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:10 And that has since been done, all that work. But that really motivated me.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:13 I thought, I need to go to law school and I needed to go into policy.
00:18:14 --> 00:18:21 And I thought that, you know, that was the path I wanted to take at that point in my life. Yeah.
00:18:22 --> 00:18:26 Yeah, you know, with me, I always wanted to be in politics.
00:18:27 --> 00:18:32 I know I wanted to be president when I was three years old, but I've always
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 wanted to be in politics. And as I got older and started doing it,
00:18:35 --> 00:18:40 so like I said, I have a similar background as far as law enforcement.
00:18:40 --> 00:18:46 And it didn't hurt that I was with the sheriff's office when I ran for the state
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50 legislature, because it's nothing like B cops in uniforms knocking on doors
00:18:50 --> 00:18:51 saying, vote for this guy.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:54 You know what I'm saying? That helps out a lot.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:59 I think that is. Yes, that is. I think that technically is a violation of the Hatch Act.
00:18:59 --> 00:19:04 But, you know, I. This is Mississippi. We didn't care about the Hatch Act back then.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:11 I can only imagine. Yeah, I think that what I didn't take for what I often took
00:19:11 --> 00:19:16 for granted for many years after leaving law enforcement was the skills that it gave me.
00:19:16 --> 00:19:19 People would say, like, you had this job as a cop. Like, what did you get from
00:19:19 --> 00:19:24 it? And even going and applying for jobs in different policy areas or on the Hill.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 Well, you did this, and they treated it like it was a waste on my resume.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 And since then, I've really reframed that experience because that time in my
00:19:32 --> 00:19:36 life was incredibly valuable. From a political standpoint, working in politics,
00:19:36 --> 00:19:39 right, I can talk to anybody.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:46 I find it hard to find a human being that I can't interact with in a meaningful
00:19:46 --> 00:19:50 and authentic way and communicate with them.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 And I also know when I'm not communicating with somebody or it's not getting
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 through, which I think is a really valuable tool that I gained from that experience.
00:19:57 --> 00:20:05 But also, working a job like that, a sense of service drove me to that.
00:20:05 --> 00:20:09 I think it's aligned with working in politics or policy, serving other people,
00:20:09 --> 00:20:13 wanting to make the world a better place, making your community a better place.
00:20:14 --> 00:20:19 I probably would have gone into the military. However, my little brother beat
00:20:19 --> 00:20:25 me to that, and he was actually deployed to Afghanistan while I was a beat cop.
00:20:25 --> 00:20:32 So my poor mother, that was not fair to her. I had to be at least stateside.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:36 But I think that it's an undervalued experience for a lot of people.
00:20:36 --> 00:20:41 And I think a lot of people that shouldn't be drawn to that job are drawn to that job.
00:20:41 --> 00:20:49 I'm a five foot four woman. I'm a small person. I couldn't bully people around with my physicality.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:55 I had to connect with them in order to get them to listen to me or follow a lawful order.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 So it was a valuable experience and I'm very grateful for it.
00:21:00 --> 00:21:03 So you are a big deal.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:10 And when I say that, it's like political has this thing called a playbook, I think it's called.
00:21:10 --> 00:21:16 And it's like, you know, if you're at a party, this is Jordan Colvin and list
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 all the other people that are at the party.
00:21:18 --> 00:21:21 It was like when your child was born, it was like, yeah, she had a baby.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:28 So you've always kind of had some attention. And I think that's a tribute to the work that you do.
00:21:28 --> 00:21:34 But you ran into, when you got hired by Representative Gottheimer.
00:21:35 --> 00:21:40 Gottheimer, Josh Gottheimer is running for New Jersey governor, vote for Josh.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:44 But it started up a little controversy when you got hired for him.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:52 What was the big deal behind that? And what was your take on those kind of political attacks?
00:21:53 --> 00:21:57 So you're talking about the Intercept article that they did on me.
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 That was a fun day. Just started a new job.
00:22:01 --> 00:22:06 And so I was working for Congressman Gottheimer as his legislative director.
00:22:07 --> 00:22:12 Josh is the most bipartisan member of the House consistently.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:17 There is a scoring system that comes out of a political thing at Georgetown,
00:22:18 --> 00:22:19 and I'm forgetting the name of it.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:23 But he has the most, he's my most bipartisan member of Congress.
00:22:23 --> 00:22:28 And the score is based on legislation that you both vote for and that you sponsor.
00:22:28 --> 00:22:31 And if it's sponsored by both a Republican and a Democrat,
00:22:32 --> 00:22:36 he was also at that time the chair of the Problem Solvers Caucus in the House,
00:22:36 --> 00:22:43 which has been a bipartisan group of members of Congress that really can whip votes.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:48 They, you know, IIJA, Problem Solvers Caucus, got a bunch of votes on that.
00:22:48 --> 00:22:52 The burn pit bill that was done for veterans.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:56 Josh went, got a bunch of Republicans on board with that bill.
00:22:56 --> 00:22:58 Huge piece of legislation, huge impact.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 Josh, I think it was something like 27 Republicans came over and voted on a Democrats bill.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:07 I went to work for him to help him understand parts of his district.
00:23:08 --> 00:23:12 By the way, at the time I was a registered Democrat, I had fully converted.
00:23:12 --> 00:23:18 I think that that article being written about me, so The Intercept is a very
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 progressive far left media outlet.
00:23:22 --> 00:23:26 I think it says the things about Democrats that I don't like,
00:23:26 --> 00:23:33 which is that no matter what I had done, it was not I was not accepted as a Democrat yet.
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37 It was as if my, you know, I don't like trial by fire, conversion by fire.
00:23:37 --> 00:23:39 I don't know what they require, a blood offering.
00:23:39 --> 00:23:43 I don't know what you have to do to be fully accepted. But it was like somehow
00:23:43 --> 00:23:48 I was not accepted. It was not she had done this so she can never.
00:23:49 --> 00:23:53 I don't understand, you know, as I said earlier, I'm Jewish,
00:23:53 --> 00:23:57 so I don't really understand if there's like some sort of like atonement process
00:23:57 --> 00:24:03 or what sort of religious experience is required for a conversion.
00:24:04 --> 00:24:07 But I think that that's what it said was that they didn't accept that.
00:24:07 --> 00:24:14 And I think the juxtaposition to the MAGA movement and that is fascinating because
00:24:14 --> 00:24:18 MAGA, man, they got Tulsi Gabbard, they got RFK.
00:24:18 --> 00:24:22 Now, I'm not saying that Democrats want to keep Tulsi Gabbard and RFK,
00:24:22 --> 00:24:30 but I think that was a pretty good deal coming over to Democrats from the Republican side.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:34 And as I always said, you know, my beliefs never changed.
00:24:34 --> 00:24:36 My political beliefs never changed. The party changed.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:40 I've always and I continue to be. Government is scaffolding.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:44 It's guardrails. It is supposed to facilitate people.
00:24:45 --> 00:24:49 It's a hand up, not a handout. It's supposed to facilitate people's life being wonderful.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:54 And it needs to stay out of people's personal lives. It needs to stay out of
00:24:54 --> 00:24:55 their medical decisions.
00:24:56 --> 00:25:01 It is only in cases, you know, regulation, and this is like my work with TPI,
00:25:01 --> 00:25:06 there are times that it's necessary to have regulations around clean air, water.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:15 There's also times that it's onerous and unnecessary and creates costs and time
00:25:15 --> 00:25:19 and both time and money that don't help Americans and don't help taxpayers.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:22 So my beliefs have never changed. It's the party that changed.
00:25:24 --> 00:25:31 And I'm really proud that I'm a Democrat and I'm sad that The Intercept felt
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 it was necessary to write that piece.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:36 I think it was more of an attack on Josh than anything.
00:25:37 --> 00:25:42 Also, it really crossed a lot of lines because the rule in D.C.,
00:25:42 --> 00:25:47 the unspoken rule, is that you don't write about staffers unless they do something bad.
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 So you get a DUI, you get arrested. Okay, you get written about.
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 But otherwise you don't go out there and attack them
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 individually it was unnecessary I didn't
00:25:56 --> 00:25:59 appreciate it it certainly it wasn't helpful
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 but you know I gotta go get it printed and
00:26:02 --> 00:26:07 framed I think like it is my jet fuel so you know the more they hate you right
00:26:07 --> 00:26:11 the more they're talking about you the better off you are yeah yeah that's that's
00:26:11 --> 00:26:16 that's one of the things they tell you in politics you know I think you're right
00:26:16 --> 00:26:20 it was like for the congressman see he was not
00:26:20 --> 00:26:25 And you know this, he was he was not a rubber stamp for President Biden.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:34 And I think a lot of people on the more more radical left progresses, if you want to say that.
00:26:35 --> 00:26:42 Looked at you coming in from a DeSantis administration as, oh,
00:26:42 --> 00:26:47 well, he's getting ready to really screw Biden over because he's picking DeSantis people to work.
00:26:48 --> 00:26:52 It wasn't necessarily, from what I understand and just understanding politics,
00:26:52 --> 00:26:56 it wasn't necessarily personally against you.
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 I think you read it right that it was more against the congressman and trying
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 to figure out what he's going to do.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:06 And, you know, he's going to have an interesting time in New Jersey,
00:27:06 --> 00:27:12 but I think, you know, he knows the politics of the state well, and he'll hold his own.
00:27:12 --> 00:27:17 But I think that was the whole gist of that. I think they were coming after
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 him more than coming after you.
00:27:19 --> 00:27:26 But again, you know, as my friend used to say, that builds the legend, right?
00:27:26 --> 00:27:32 And you've gotten tougher and stronger and sharper because of that. Yeah.
00:27:32 --> 00:27:37 And, you know, staffers, a very important thing that I talk to young congressional
00:27:37 --> 00:27:43 staffers about is nobody cast a single vote for you. You are a staffer.
00:27:43 --> 00:27:47 Your job is to look at everything through the lens and filter of the member
00:27:47 --> 00:27:49 of Congress that you work for.
00:27:49 --> 00:27:54 You are providing them recommendations based on their previous policy positions.
00:27:54 --> 00:27:56 You represent them. They are your client.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:01 How you feel about this personally does not matter.
00:28:01 --> 00:28:04 It's how they think about it, and that's how you're supposed to do it.
00:28:04 --> 00:28:09 And, you know, when I worked for Congressman DeSantis at the time, I did that for him.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:14 And when I worked for Josh, did the same thing. Yeah.
00:28:14 --> 00:28:19 And what people need to understand about that, that, that culture in the Capitol
00:28:19 --> 00:28:25 is that once you get in as a staffer, you're, you're an invaluable asset.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:29 And, and people who are smart take advantage of that.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:35 My college classmate, Glenn Rushing, was one of the best to ever do it.
00:28:35 --> 00:28:41 And he got in like in his late twenties and now he's a big time lobbyist up
00:28:41 --> 00:28:46 there too. And, you know, but he was able to jump from one congressman to another.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:50 And he, you know, even if he went to work for a congressman from another state,
00:28:51 --> 00:28:55 somebody from Mississippi always pulled him back, you know, because he had that experience.
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 And there was a couple of people I knew that ended up just staying in that cycle.
00:29:01 --> 00:29:06 But one of the reasons, one of the other reasons why you were you're in demand
00:29:06 --> 00:29:10 is because one of your incredible attributes is your bipartisanship.
00:29:11 --> 00:29:16 So as somebody who has tried to be professional and to be bipartisan,
00:29:16 --> 00:29:21 do you feel that you're the last of a dying breed or is there hope on the horizon
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 based on the politics that we see now?
00:29:25 --> 00:29:27 I think that things are the worst that they've ever been.
00:29:29 --> 00:29:33 And I think my answer six months ago would have been more optimistic.
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39 There, you know, there was a bipartisan effort to get the CHIPS Act passed.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:46 And every year, Congress, bipartisan, they put together the National Defense
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 Authorization Act, the NDAA, and they pass it.
00:29:50 --> 00:29:57 And in the past year, like these things are, you know, Trump is disassembling
00:29:57 --> 00:30:01 chips and doing the same thing that was already done, that's already been passed.
00:30:01 --> 00:30:04 Right. And but he doesn't like it because Biden's name is on it.
00:30:05 --> 00:30:09 And I say that because there was so much behind-the-scenes bipartisanship on
00:30:09 --> 00:30:13 the CHIPS Act, understanding that the common enemy was China.
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 It wasn't Democrats, it wasn't Republicans, it was that we had to counter China.
00:30:16 --> 00:30:24 I think that there are still efforts on the Hill where there is bipartisanship behind closed doors.
00:30:24 --> 00:30:32 What is scary is that members of Congress are more and more the bipartisanship
00:30:32 --> 00:30:37 that was always going on behind closed doors is becoming more and more.
00:30:37 --> 00:30:41 There's less the security of the, quote, doors being closed.
00:30:42 --> 00:30:50 It doesn't appear that the integrity of a closed-door conversation or the necessity
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 of must-pass legislation.
00:30:54 --> 00:31:00 Soundbites, being on Twitter, making a stink, getting your face out there with
00:31:00 --> 00:31:03 some, you know, oh, you did this today in a hearing or you did that,
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 appears to be more important to members of Congress now,
00:31:07 --> 00:31:10 than getting things done for their constituents. And I know there's a lot of
00:31:10 --> 00:31:12 talking heads that say that.
00:31:12 --> 00:31:16 And I was reticent to believe that that was actually happening.
00:31:16 --> 00:31:21 But I really do see that. And it's hard because I think sometimes there's valuable
00:31:21 --> 00:31:29 points that are made when members of Congress behave badly to be called out by other members.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:32 And there's certain people I think about who do a good job of calling out stupid
00:31:32 --> 00:31:37 behavior and disrespectful, unprofessional behavior that,
00:31:37 --> 00:31:42 I'm going to allude to something that is clearly somebody trying to fundraise
00:31:42 --> 00:31:45 or get that right soundbite for their fundraising pitch.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:50 But at the same time, it's still distracting from getting work done because
00:31:50 --> 00:31:54 those hearings, having been a staffer, those congressional hearings,
00:31:54 --> 00:31:59 when they're they are serious, there's a limited amount of time you are crushing to get things into them.
00:31:59 --> 00:32:03 They are a lot of work to put together for staff.
00:32:03 --> 00:32:06 And when these members derail them and they go off the train,
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 they go, you know, they go off the track and they're, you know, going nuts.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 There's so much valuable work for the American people that are lost,
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 that's lost with that. Because those hearings function as oversight.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:20 Also, sometimes bills are introduced at the end of them. Legislation has to
00:32:20 --> 00:32:23 pass those hearings in order to get to the House floor to get voted on.
00:32:24 --> 00:32:31 So I guess in a roundabout way, I don't know if the bipartisanship that is necessary
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 to pass bills, especially with the margins right now in the House.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:37 I don't know. I don't know. I'm less
00:32:37 --> 00:32:40 optimistic. I want to be eternally optimistic, but I'm also realistic.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:47 Yeah. Yeah. I have the same. I have the same thing because people ask me,
00:32:47 --> 00:32:52 you know, why don't you get back into politics and run and stuff like that?
00:32:52 --> 00:32:58 And I said, when I was in the state legislature in Mississippi, it was a different time.
00:32:58 --> 00:33:04 It was it was not crazy for me to talk to Republicans and say,
00:33:04 --> 00:33:08 I need you to vote for this bill or, you know,
00:33:08 --> 00:33:14 you know, just just funny stories about how I'm pushing an amendment.
00:33:14 --> 00:33:16 And it seemed like all the Republicans like it.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 So the Democrats start worrying about it. You know what I'm saying?
00:33:19 --> 00:33:23 I mean, those were those were the good old days. I said now I don't I don't
00:33:23 --> 00:33:26 know how many fights I would have got in I don't know how many people I would
00:33:26 --> 00:33:30 have cussed out and I you know I did did my share of cussing out folks back in the day but.
00:33:31 --> 00:33:38 I think it would just be, I don't know. I don't, I'm just from a different, different time.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:41 And I kind of have that, that same concern.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:48 So, you know, it's, it's refreshing to talk to somebody like you who still believes
00:33:48 --> 00:33:50 in the principle of getting stuff done.
00:33:50 --> 00:33:55 And I think that, that if we can get some more folks with that same mindset,
00:33:55 --> 00:33:59 we might get offset some of the stupidity, as you mentioned.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:05 And speaking about that, Go ahead. Compromise is a huge part of our lives, like everyday lives.
00:34:05 --> 00:34:08 Who are people that, you know, when there's this idea in politics,
00:34:08 --> 00:34:12 like, oh, no compromise, this, we're going to, it's this or this.
00:34:13 --> 00:34:16 How do the people who say that, I just want, like, how are their lives?
00:34:16 --> 00:34:21 What are their personal relationships like? You got to meet people in the middle.
00:34:21 --> 00:34:23 You got to meet people where they are.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:28 Getting your, I mean, I have a seven-year-old son and, you know,
00:34:28 --> 00:34:30 he can put up a real stink about things.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 And like seven-year-olds are very good and they're very good at negotiating.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:39 They will break you down, especially mine. He is brilliant and he just will break me down.
00:34:40 --> 00:34:44 But I am trying to teach him, you know, you're not going to get your way all the time.
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 Even, you know, it's, and also have
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 you considered maybe that your way of doing something isn't the best
00:34:51 --> 00:34:54 way of doing it the idea that that compromise
00:34:54 --> 00:34:58 we will not i hear this in democratic speeches
00:34:58 --> 00:35:03 and talks and social media no it's republicans are doing this like no meet in
00:35:03 --> 00:35:08 the middle compromise is not a dirty word it's not every nobody's gonna you
00:35:08 --> 00:35:11 know like many things nobody should go home happy everybody should be a little
00:35:11 --> 00:35:15 bit annoyed but you got something done yeah and i think you You know,
00:35:16 --> 00:35:18 when you campaign and, you know,
00:35:18 --> 00:35:21 you say this is what I want to do.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:27 And then when you get there, it's like, how much of what I want to do can I get done?
00:35:27 --> 00:35:34 Once you start developing relationships and understanding the process once you're in.
00:35:35 --> 00:35:39 Yeah. You know, but like you said, there's people now who don't get it.
00:35:39 --> 00:35:45 So let me throw a scenario at you. Let's just say that President Trump,
00:35:45 --> 00:35:52 you know, calls you and says, look, I need your advice on on some issues.
00:35:53 --> 00:35:58 What would you how would you advise them dealing with tariffs,
00:35:59 --> 00:36:07 immigration and this whole D.A.I.A., I guess, removal or whatever.
00:36:08 --> 00:36:12 What's your thoughts about those particular issues that you would like to tell
00:36:12 --> 00:36:15 the president and say, hey, look, I need you to look at it from this perspective?
00:36:16 --> 00:36:24 Wow. Again, love the loaded question. So, Tara, I, well, I keep it pretty simple.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:27 I'm not going to make pokes at the president. He is the president.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:30 But I'd say I keep my comments pretty simple to him.
00:36:31 --> 00:36:35 And to keep it simple, I'd say your secretary of the treasury is worth $500 million.
00:36:35 --> 00:36:43 And he is talking about what he feels everyday Americans value and don't value
00:36:43 --> 00:36:49 and that they they value certain things over cheap trinkets from China.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:55 I don't think Scott Bessent has gone to Costco and bought. He talked about flat screen TVs.
00:36:55 --> 00:36:57 He's made some comment about let them eat flat screen TVs.
00:36:57 --> 00:37:02 He probably has not bought a TV for himself or set that TV up in his home,
00:37:03 --> 00:37:05 much less gone to Costco.
00:37:05 --> 00:37:08 You know, or Sam's Club or wherever in years.
00:37:09 --> 00:37:17 His perspective is, it speaks to this idea that we have these billionaires making
00:37:17 --> 00:37:19 decisions for everybody else.
00:37:19 --> 00:37:25 And it's not going to translate to voters. Voters do care about the cost of everyday goods.
00:37:25 --> 00:37:28 They care about how much gas costs to put in the tank of their car.
00:37:28 --> 00:37:35 They also care that, as I just did this morning, the cap to my gas tank in my car broke off.
00:37:35 --> 00:37:38 And guess where that part is made? China.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:43 I have a very good feeling that there is no way to get that part made in the
00:37:43 --> 00:37:44 United States in a quick manner.
00:37:45 --> 00:37:50 And these are things that everyday Americans think about. And if that cap goes
00:37:50 --> 00:37:54 from costing $25 to replace, and I'm just ballparking because I don't actually know how much.
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 So listeners, please keep that in perspective.
00:37:57 --> 00:38:03 If it goes from being $25 for that gas cap cover to $75, Americans are going to care.
00:38:03 --> 00:38:06 That's that cheap stuff from China that Scott Besson is talking about.
00:38:06 --> 00:38:11 This is going to be, the people making these decisions and coming out with this
00:38:11 --> 00:38:13 policy are so far out of touch.
00:38:14 --> 00:38:17 They're trying to protect their billions of
00:38:17 --> 00:38:19 dollars and they don't understand that most americans don't
00:38:19 --> 00:38:23 even have a 401k and that most americans
00:38:23 --> 00:38:26 are thinking about these costs because
00:38:26 --> 00:38:30 these everyday costs do matter to them and it's going to have a major impact
00:38:30 --> 00:38:34 on them and at the end of the day you know i was talking to my dad the other
00:38:34 --> 00:38:39 week and he said you know people will they'll let the look past schools being
00:38:39 --> 00:38:43 shot up they'll look past children being taken away from their parents at the border,
00:38:43 --> 00:38:46 but they will not have their wallet impacted.
00:38:46 --> 00:38:50 They will not have their retirement funds impacted. And I think that there's
00:38:50 --> 00:38:51 always truth to that. People vote with their wallet.
00:38:51 --> 00:38:55 I always learn that in Republican politics, and I try to carry it to Democratic politics.
00:38:56 --> 00:39:01 And I'm still just, you know, preaching it, and hopefully it'll stick at some
00:39:01 --> 00:39:02 point with the people that I get to interact with.
00:39:03 --> 00:39:06 As far as immigration goes, I think it speaks to the same
00:39:06 --> 00:39:11 thing like the data you know what's going on with deportations right now if
00:39:11 --> 00:39:16 if the goal is deterrence he's doing a great job right you're scaring the crap
00:39:16 --> 00:39:21 out of people in fact you're scaring the crap out of american citizens bypassing
00:39:21 --> 00:39:24 due process that is well established.
00:39:25 --> 00:39:32 For individuals is going to cost the American taxpayers so much money in the
00:39:32 --> 00:39:35 long run when the litigation occurs over this.
00:39:35 --> 00:39:42 And I meant to look it up before our talk, but the previous Trump administration
00:39:42 --> 00:39:46 separating children at the border, there was a court settlement on that.
00:39:46 --> 00:39:49 I believe it was a judgment by the judge. I don't think it was necessarily settled,
00:39:49 --> 00:39:50 but the government was fined.
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54 I want to say something like upwards of $800 million. dollars.
00:39:54 --> 00:39:57 And there was a good breakdown about how much that was going to cost individual
00:39:57 --> 00:40:00 taxpayers for separating children at the border.
00:40:01 --> 00:40:08 So if we bypass due process at one point, it will come to bite us in the butt through litigation.
00:40:08 --> 00:40:11 So what's going on right now? Yeah, you know, you may scare people.
00:40:11 --> 00:40:14 You may have people fleeing the country because they don't want to get rounded up by ice.
00:40:14 --> 00:40:17 Deterrence, great. You know, sure, that's going to work for you.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:21 But bypassing due process is just going to cost us money in the long run.
00:40:21 --> 00:40:26 Doing things like this is going to cost in the long run. There's no fast,
00:40:26 --> 00:40:27 easy, and cheap measure.
00:40:28 --> 00:40:33 So that's how I feel about that. As far as DEI goes, I think you probably saw
00:40:33 --> 00:40:38 on CNN when this was initially getting brought up during Secretary Hegseth's
00:40:38 --> 00:40:43 nomination, now, you know, him as the Secretary of Defense.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:49 I talked about DEI in the context of women serving in combat roles in the military.
00:40:51 --> 00:40:55 I, we had a war in two fronts, right? Afghanistan and Iraq.
00:40:56 --> 00:41:00 And we couldn't talk to half of the people there because they were women and
00:41:00 --> 00:41:01 male soldiers couldn't go in
00:41:01 --> 00:41:04 and talk to them. Male military members couldn't go in and talk to them.
00:41:05 --> 00:41:11 And DOD realized that this was a really big issue and they opened up positions in places for women.
00:41:12 --> 00:41:17 And now, since that has happened, combat roles, women are going through the
00:41:17 --> 00:41:20 special operations schools, the ranger schools, SEALs.
00:41:20 --> 00:41:26 And it's not a lot of women, but they're incredible women. And they are meeting
00:41:26 --> 00:41:29 the standards, the same standards that men are.
00:41:29 --> 00:41:34 They're a valuable asset to that. And had that not been open to them previously,
00:41:34 --> 00:41:35 they weren't even allowed to apply for it.
00:41:35 --> 00:41:38 Now it's being open. Nobody's lowering any standards.
00:41:39 --> 00:41:43 This DEI, the way it's being approached, it entirely comes,
00:41:44 --> 00:41:51 the broader aspects of it come across as a talking point that appeals to people
00:41:51 --> 00:41:57 in their lowest form, that they want to blame somebody else for something.
00:41:58 --> 00:42:03 And, you know, we had, I think, talking to a friend the other day about this,
00:42:03 --> 00:42:07 it's the blowback from having a Black family in the White House for eight years.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:12 And it's a way that people can put their racism in a box and say,
00:42:12 --> 00:42:15 see, it's this, it's, this is the problem.
00:42:16 --> 00:42:19 And at the end of the day, going after it is just some sort of dog whistle.
00:42:19 --> 00:42:22 It's not even a very good dog whistle. It seems pretty overt to me.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:29 And I think it's going to blow back at the end because it's unworthy of the
00:42:29 --> 00:42:31 time that it's being taken, you know, is being taken for it.
00:42:31 --> 00:42:37 The benefits of DEI and the private sector have been shown.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:41 And there's organizations, there's corporations that are fighting back and saying,
00:42:41 --> 00:42:43 look, we're not going to, you know, we're not going to change our current policies.
00:42:44 --> 00:42:47 This is working for us. If it's making money for somebody, they're not going to change that policy.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:52 If it's helping them attract a better workforce, they're not going to change that policy.
00:42:53 --> 00:42:56 And there's plenty of CEOs that are standing up on that value and saying,
00:42:56 --> 00:42:58 look, this is making my company a better company.
00:42:59 --> 00:43:02 So I'm not changing it. I'm not going to change my policy around it.
00:43:03 --> 00:43:07 And I think that the Republican, the old Republican in me would say,
00:43:07 --> 00:43:09 look, the market forces are at play.
00:43:09 --> 00:43:14 There they are. These CEOs saying, hey, I like this. It's working for us.
00:43:14 --> 00:43:16 Sorry, we're not going to change what we're doing.
00:43:16 --> 00:43:21 Those that don't want to, I think the market forces will respond to them as well.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:27 And I think that at the end of the day, it's a really big distraction from a
00:43:27 --> 00:43:28 lot of the other stuff that's going on.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:40 And while it deserves our time and attention, it is being done to placate people's, you know,
00:43:41 --> 00:43:43 dog whistle racism, for the lack of better way of saying it.
00:43:44 --> 00:43:48 Yeah. You know, it's fascinating to me that.
00:43:50 --> 00:43:55 One of the things that the president wanted to tout when he was campaigning
00:43:55 --> 00:44:00 was how many Latinos were voting for him.
00:44:00 --> 00:44:06 You know, there was always somebody with a Blacks for Trump shirt on in the
00:44:06 --> 00:44:08 background of his rallies.
00:44:08 --> 00:44:15 You know, just, you know, trying to show that he had a diverse group of support
00:44:15 --> 00:44:20 to run and then eventually win.
00:44:20 --> 00:44:25 And then they come up with a policy that says, yeah, well, you know,
00:44:25 --> 00:44:28 screw all that. You know, I don't want to see that.
00:44:29 --> 00:44:35 One thing about campaigning is that, like I said before, you have your ideas.
00:44:35 --> 00:44:40 But then when you get out there and and certain dynamics happen,
00:44:40 --> 00:44:46 that also shapes how you approach your job if you're if you're fortunate enough to get elected.
00:44:46 --> 00:44:51 And it just seems like to me that if if if people say, well,
00:44:51 --> 00:44:56 you know, he's people say, well, he's a sham and all this stuff. He lies all the time.
00:44:56 --> 00:45:01 I think the biggest evidence is the fact that you use as diverse a coalition
00:45:01 --> 00:45:06 as you could get. because he wasn't going to get the majority of the Asian American vote.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:09 He wasn't going to get the majority of Latino vote. He wasn't going to get the
00:45:09 --> 00:45:15 majority of the black vote, but he got enough to propel him in.
00:45:16 --> 00:45:20 And it would seem like to me at that point, it would have been like if he was,
00:45:20 --> 00:45:26 you know, observing like that and say, you know, let's hold off on this DEI
00:45:26 --> 00:45:29 stuff because, you know, I did get some black vote.
00:45:29 --> 00:45:34 I did get, I did get a lot of Latino vote. I did get some vote from the Asian American community.
00:45:35 --> 00:45:40 It's like, let's see how these policies would impact them and,
00:45:40 --> 00:45:44 you know, and make decisions off of that.
00:45:44 --> 00:45:50 If he was, if he was truly a statesman, that's the best word I'll use.
00:45:51 --> 00:45:54 Yeah. I mean, he benefited from people,
00:45:55 --> 00:45:59 I think for a lot of people who would vote, or the only way I can understand
00:45:59 --> 00:46:04 voting for him, if you fit into one of those groups,
00:46:04 --> 00:46:13 is that you do not want to face the reality that if you're a Black American, at one point, like,
00:46:13 --> 00:46:15 if you served in the military after
00:46:15 --> 00:46:20 World War II, you were denied the GI benefits that were promised you.
00:46:21 --> 00:46:25 And you were redlined into crappy neighborhoods to buy your home.
00:46:25 --> 00:46:29 So you were denied the ability to develop generational wealth.
00:46:30 --> 00:46:34 I mean, denial, a lot of people live in denial. They don't want to face,
00:46:34 --> 00:46:37 you know, the reality that things went wrong.
00:46:38 --> 00:46:40 And I mean, also part of it is, you know, things went wrong,
00:46:40 --> 00:46:44 bad things happen, and you have to move past that and make, you know.
00:46:45 --> 00:46:49 You know, it just is what it is, accept it and try to make the best of it.
00:46:49 --> 00:46:56 But I think that there's just a denial that maybe those individuals face.
00:46:56 --> 00:46:58 And that's a bigger part of our mental health crisis in our country,
00:46:58 --> 00:47:00 perhaps. I don't know how to answer that one.
00:47:01 --> 00:47:06 Yeah, yeah. Well, we could have a whole show on mental health because that's one of my issues.
00:47:08 --> 00:47:12 But I've taken up a good bit of your time and I don't want to take up too much more.
00:47:12 --> 00:47:15 But I did want to get a couple other questions in.
00:47:15 --> 00:47:18 I wanted you to plug a couple of things that you're involved with.
00:47:18 --> 00:47:23 So in 2018, you helped your husband run for Congress.
00:47:24 --> 00:47:30 Is 2026 the time for you to step out there and run?
00:47:30 --> 00:47:37 Erik, so kind of you. So it was such a success, my Jesse running for Congress,
00:47:37 --> 00:47:38 that we're now divorced.
00:47:39 --> 00:47:42 So, you know, obviously that's my terrible joke.
00:47:42 --> 00:47:49 But we, I helped my then husband, Jesse Colvin, run against Andy Harris in Maryland's
00:47:49 --> 00:47:50 first congressional district.
00:47:50 --> 00:47:52 It was a very Republican district. Jesse ran as a Democrat.
00:47:53 --> 00:47:57 You know, Jesse, that district in particular, first of all, it was very gerrymandered
00:47:57 --> 00:48:01 to be, it's the only Republican district in Maryland.
00:48:01 --> 00:48:06 They've since done a redistricting that's made certain parts a little bit more
00:48:06 --> 00:48:09 Republican, but that one is still, like, very Republican.
00:48:10 --> 00:48:16 It was a fantastic experience in learning. I mean, just a PhD in a lot,
00:48:16 --> 00:48:19 in so many different topics is what I always described it as.
00:48:20 --> 00:48:24 It's a massive congressional district. I think it's the second largest east of the Mississippi.
00:48:26 --> 00:48:34 I am not insane, so I would never run for Congress. You have to be nuts to do it.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:36 It is the hardest thing to do.
00:48:37 --> 00:48:39 If you are not individually wealthy, which we were not,
00:48:41 --> 00:48:46 And certainly not after getting divorced. You don't have like a helicopter or a driver or income.
00:48:46 --> 00:48:50 So the entire campaign, I was working to make money, to pay our bills,
00:48:50 --> 00:48:53 and he was campaigning. I was also helping him run the campaign.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:56 And I was pregnant with our son at the time.
00:48:57 --> 00:49:01 So, you know, one spouse has to work and still maintain a normal life and then
00:49:01 --> 00:49:03 take care of a newborn baby.
00:49:04 --> 00:49:08 With, you know, even logistics of health insurance in that situation are difficult.
00:49:09 --> 00:49:13 Running for Congress is extremely expensive, and it's extremely time-consuming.
00:49:13 --> 00:49:16 You spend the majority of your time, instead of talking to voters,
00:49:16 --> 00:49:21 you spend it fundraising, talking to rich people about how if they help you
00:49:21 --> 00:49:25 get elected, you know, you're going to care about the issue that they care about,
00:49:25 --> 00:49:27 which sometimes are great issues and sometimes aren't.
00:49:28 --> 00:49:32 And there are some really amazing wealthy donors out there that are awesome,
00:49:32 --> 00:49:34 and they just care about supporting really great candidates,
00:49:34 --> 00:49:35 and they do amazing things.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:40 Like they, they're awesome people and they are in a position and they use that
00:49:40 --> 00:49:43 position to help amazing people.
00:49:43 --> 00:49:48 But no, I'm not clinically insane. So I would never run for Congress.
00:49:49 --> 00:49:54 It is unless I was, you know, clinically insane and incredibly individually
00:49:54 --> 00:49:55 wealthy and could do that.
00:49:56 --> 00:50:01 I'm also I have a seven-year-old son and Oh my goodness. He's amazing.
00:50:01 --> 00:50:04 And I guess he'll be a few years older than no I I still love I love spending
00:50:04 --> 00:50:11 time with my kid I love riding horses and spending time with my friends and
00:50:11 --> 00:50:13 Talking to people like you.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:17 And in running for congress, you don't have that it is the hardest thing And
00:50:17 --> 00:50:23 so I respect members of congress is as dumb as their antics can be I respect
00:50:23 --> 00:50:25 them because it is a hard job,
00:50:26 --> 00:50:30 And you end up, these ones that fly in from far away or inconvenient places
00:50:30 --> 00:50:32 where you have to take multiple connections.
00:50:32 --> 00:50:40 I worked for Senator Coburn, and she had to fly one flight inside Oklahoma and then Oklahoma to D.C..
00:50:41 --> 00:50:47 It's a lot. So, no, I'm sorry. I don't have the sacrifice or the commitment
00:50:47 --> 00:50:50 to do it. So thank you for asking.
00:50:50 --> 00:50:54 Well, you know, as somebody that has run for the U.S. Senate and real quick,
00:50:54 --> 00:50:58 you know, a joke, it's a real story.
00:50:58 --> 00:51:03 The first time I ran for the U.S. Senate, we had a national legislative conference
00:51:03 --> 00:51:07 and I'm sitting at a table with guys from Connecticut and Rhode Island and other states.
00:51:08 --> 00:51:12 And they saw my Fleming U.S. Senate shirt on because I think it was like the
00:51:12 --> 00:51:13 last day of the conference.
00:51:14 --> 00:51:19 And they said, oh, you're running for the U.S. Senate in Mississippi? I said, yeah.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:24 And then one of the guys turned around and said, hey, guys, we got a millionaire at our table.
00:51:25 --> 00:51:27 And I said, no, sir, I'm not a millionaire and stuff.
00:51:28 --> 00:51:31 He said, oh, correct it. We have a billionaire at our table. What y'all got?
00:51:31 --> 00:51:37 You know, so I definitely understand that, you know, I was neither one of those,
00:51:37 --> 00:51:41 but the finance commitment, the sacrifice you had to make, because I think my
00:51:41 --> 00:51:44 child was, the first time I ran, like three years.
00:51:45 --> 00:51:49 But, you know, one of the enduring pictures is him pointing at my yard sign, you know.
00:51:51 --> 00:51:55 But, yeah, it's just, yeah, I understand the sacrifice. I do.
00:51:55 --> 00:52:00 Michelle is on this book. I think she really outlined it. She was very candid
00:52:00 --> 00:52:03 about how miserable it was.
00:52:03 --> 00:52:06 So when people ask her, she always, you know, she's like, and I'm like,
00:52:06 --> 00:52:08 oh, no, believe that woman. She is very serious.
00:52:10 --> 00:52:13 She is 10 times over what I did, and she does not want to do that.
00:52:14 --> 00:52:18 So finally, what's the deal with FaceTiming in public and crew socks?
00:52:19 --> 00:52:22 You seem like you're not a big fan of those. well i
00:52:22 --> 00:52:25 okay eric let's get something right i love
00:52:25 --> 00:52:29 crew socks i love socks yes i
00:52:29 --> 00:52:32 i tend to kick my ankles when i walk i
00:52:32 --> 00:52:37 don't know there's probably some name for that walking gate issue where i attended
00:52:37 --> 00:52:42 so crew socks are great for me i love crew socks so that was a great question
00:52:42 --> 00:52:47 that they had on abby phillips show she is amazing and we were talking what's
00:52:47 --> 00:52:50 in and what's out for 2024, 2025.
00:52:51 --> 00:52:55 And the crew socks, actually, she and I had extensive conversations about the crew socks afterwards.
00:52:55 --> 00:52:59 She's like, I think this is just a ploy to get people to spend more money on
00:52:59 --> 00:53:02 all new socks and these very expensive socks that Aloe Yoga brand makes.
00:53:02 --> 00:53:05 I was like, I don't know, perhaps, but have you tried those socks?
00:53:05 --> 00:53:06 They're actually quite fantastic.
00:53:06 --> 00:53:10 They're probably made in China too. FaceTiming in public.
00:53:11 --> 00:53:15 I don't like that either. And I, that was brought up on the show.
00:53:15 --> 00:53:18 It's, it's pretty obnoxious. However, I do have a seven-year-old and
00:53:18 --> 00:53:22 he loves to facetime his grandparents and
00:53:22 --> 00:53:28 sometimes it is in public but i write it off as he's so darn cute and people
00:53:28 --> 00:53:31 generally laugh when they see him doing it he's also figured out how to change
00:53:31 --> 00:53:36 the emojis on the face so he can turn himself into like a dog or octopus so
00:53:36 --> 00:53:41 it's okay if you're a cute little kid and i love my crew socks love my crew socks.
00:53:42 --> 00:53:47 All right. So it's time to do some plug-ins. So you work for the Permitting Institute.
00:53:47 --> 00:53:51 Kind of explain what the role of that organization is.
00:53:51 --> 00:53:58 And then you have an organization that you started, Association of Service Dog Providers.
00:53:59 --> 00:54:06 Talk about those two groups. So right now I have a role with the Permitting
00:54:06 --> 00:54:08 Institute, which is a 501c6.
00:54:08 --> 00:54:13 It's a trade association for a lot of different companies and nonprofits and
00:54:13 --> 00:54:16 think tanks. And we work on reforming permits.
00:54:16 --> 00:54:19 My friend Alex Hergott is the CEO. He founded it.
00:54:19 --> 00:54:23 Alex is a Republican. He was a staffer for Senator Inhofe and the Senate Public
00:54:23 --> 00:54:24 Environment and Public Works Committee.
00:54:25 --> 00:54:28 My saying about Alex is that he will forget more
00:54:28 --> 00:54:31 about permitting in the
00:54:31 --> 00:54:34 United States than I will ever know he had a
00:54:34 --> 00:54:37 role at NEPA he was in the Trump the first Trump White House doing all sorts
00:54:37 --> 00:54:41 of permitting reform with Department of Transportation and we basically just
00:54:41 --> 00:54:48 work with lots of different groups to help build out strong messaging and bring
00:54:48 --> 00:54:53 together really good ideas for how to streamline any effort that involves,
00:54:53 --> 00:54:55 you know, putting a shovel in the ground in the United States,
00:54:56 --> 00:54:58 be it a, you know,
00:54:58 --> 00:55:04 energy transmission issue to mining reforming to get mines started.
00:55:04 --> 00:55:07 You know, that's going to be a huge effort to, you know, there are some critical
00:55:07 --> 00:55:11 minerals of mines in the United States, but getting a mine set up in the United
00:55:11 --> 00:55:14 States takes five times longer than it does anywhere else in the world.
00:55:14 --> 00:55:18 How can we both, you know, protect the environment, but help these projects
00:55:18 --> 00:55:21 streamline, reduce costs, get American companies in there.
00:55:22 --> 00:55:25 So that's one of the efforts I work with. The Association of Service Dog Providers,
00:55:26 --> 00:55:29 I started that when I worked for, right after I left Congressman DeSantis'
00:55:30 --> 00:55:34 office, I saw that there was the need for a trade association in the service
00:55:34 --> 00:55:38 dog provider space, but specifically for military veterans, because there were
00:55:38 --> 00:55:44 a lot of, there's a traditional service dog trade association that for traditional disabilities,
00:55:45 --> 00:55:48 so hearing and vision impairment, and those dogs are.
00:55:49 --> 00:55:51 Very specialized to do that work.
00:55:51 --> 00:55:56 Mental health service animals are, service dogs specifically,
00:55:56 --> 00:56:00 are much easier to train because anybody who has a dog will know or anybody
00:56:00 --> 00:56:03 who's a dog person. Dogs are much more intuitive to those things.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:07 You know, getting a dog to stop at a red light is different from a dog responding
00:56:07 --> 00:56:08 if you're having a panic attack.
00:56:10 --> 00:56:14 And worked on the pause bill for which Senator or Congressman DeSantis at the
00:56:14 --> 00:56:18 time introduced. It was actually bipartisan. He introduced it with a Democrat.
00:56:18 --> 00:56:21 It did eventually, four years later, pass in a different form.
00:56:21 --> 00:56:23 It was signed into law by President Biden.
00:56:24 --> 00:56:28 So I started a trade association to create an accreditation standard for these
00:56:28 --> 00:56:32 nonprofits to help them come together to bring best practices together,
00:56:32 --> 00:56:35 identify best practices, work with different research institutions,
00:56:35 --> 00:56:38 both government and outside government, that we're trying to understand the
00:56:38 --> 00:56:41 science behind, you know, serving veterans through these service animals.
00:56:42 --> 00:56:46 And it still is in existence. I actually began serving as the board chair.
00:56:46 --> 00:56:49 I had just served as a board member for a few years.
00:56:49 --> 00:56:52 And I came back as board chair this year.
00:56:52 --> 00:56:57 And we're building out some new projects to help get the word out and to help
00:56:57 --> 00:56:59 support these service dog providers.
00:56:59 --> 00:57:02 But like check out, people can check out the website for it,
00:57:03 --> 00:57:04 servicedogsforvets.org.
00:57:05 --> 00:57:09 There's amazing organizations on there that this is their life's work.
00:57:09 --> 00:57:11 This is their passion, their dream, and what they do.
00:57:11 --> 00:57:13 And, you know, I always said to all the people I worked with there,
00:57:14 --> 00:57:17 you know, I don't know really anything. I have a cat. He's sitting right over here.
00:57:17 --> 00:57:22 I've had dogs before. I love dogs. But, you know, right now I'm a cat owner. And.
00:57:23 --> 00:57:27 I can't train a dog and I can't help heal a veteran with mental health issues,
00:57:27 --> 00:57:33 but I can help bring all the right people together and get them to work together.
00:57:33 --> 00:57:36 And maybe, you know, sometimes a little strong arming, sometimes they need some,
00:57:36 --> 00:57:39 you know, carrot, some stick, you know, both goes both ways.
00:57:39 --> 00:57:43 I can help these people work together and come find some solutions and get them
00:57:43 --> 00:57:45 in front of the right people, the decision makers.
00:57:45 --> 00:57:48 So I'm very proud of the association. Thank you.
00:57:48 --> 00:57:53 Well, you know, when I was in the legislature, I was one of the dog legislators.
00:57:53 --> 00:57:55 And I'll tell you that story at another time.
00:57:56 --> 00:58:03 But how can people get in touch with you if they want you to speak or pick your
00:58:03 --> 00:58:04 brain? How does that work?
00:58:04 --> 00:58:09 Well, thank you. I think my Instagram right now, which I need to work on my social media presence.
00:58:09 --> 00:58:13 Eric, I am always going to be a staffer and I am so terrible.
00:58:13 --> 00:58:17 I am a staffer at heart. I serve a principal, be it a member of Congress,
00:58:18 --> 00:58:21 be it, you know, my members of the association, you know, of TPI,
00:58:22 --> 00:58:24 my clients that I work with, private sector clients.
00:58:25 --> 00:58:31 I am on Instagram. I need to be better at posting more. But Jordan Colvin 202
00:58:31 --> 00:58:32 is my Instagram account.
00:58:32 --> 00:58:37 I post when I have clips from CNN on there, but that's a great way to get a hold of me.
00:58:38 --> 00:58:42 All right. Well, Jordan Colvin, it's been an honor and a delight to talk with
00:58:42 --> 00:58:45 you and to have the opportunity to pick your brain a little bit.
00:58:46 --> 00:58:51 I think, you know, if anything, my listeners will know that there are some people
00:58:51 --> 00:58:57 in Washington who actually are statespersons that are looking out for the common
00:58:57 --> 00:59:01 good and just must continue success in that.
00:59:02 --> 00:59:06 And and just thank you again for what you do and for coming on the podcast.
00:59:06 --> 00:59:09 I appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me.
00:59:10 --> 00:59:12 All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
00:59:13 --> 00:59:31 Music.
00:59:32 --> 00:59:38 All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, right?
00:59:38 --> 00:59:45 I've got two ladies coming on, Bremond McDougall and Lisa Cooper.
00:59:46 --> 00:59:52 Bremond McDougall is a graduate of the University of Texas at Austin with a BA in Spanish.
00:59:53 --> 00:59:56 While raising her three children between Austin and New York City,
00:59:56 --> 01:00:02 she amassed a collection of many thousands of books that make up what she calls
01:00:02 --> 01:00:05 a reader's library as opposed to a collector's library.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:09 Rather than first editions, it contains dog-eared favorites,
01:00:09 --> 01:00:13 collections from both of her grandmothers, complete with personal notes,
01:00:13 --> 01:00:15 and books she has yet to read.
01:00:15 --> 01:00:19 She and her husband helped to establish Eleanor Hall at St.
01:00:19 --> 01:00:23 Andrews School in Austin, a kindergarten building named after her late mother
01:00:23 --> 01:00:26 who was a champion of joyful learning.
01:00:26 --> 01:00:30 A board member of the Citizens Committee for Children of New York,
01:00:30 --> 01:00:35 a non-profit that aims to advance well-being, equity, and justice for all of
01:00:35 --> 01:00:37 New York's children. She lives in Manhattan.
01:00:38 --> 01:00:41 Lisa Cooper is a lawyer by profession
01:00:41 --> 01:00:46 and attended Amherst College and the University of Texas School of Law.
01:00:46 --> 01:00:53 She has worked at a small Bay Area law firm that specializes in immigration law since 2008.
01:00:53 --> 01:00:57 A lifelong reader and book lover, her stint as a communications director for
01:00:57 --> 01:01:02 a school in Palo Alto, undergoing a rebrand sparked her interest in publishing.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:07 Working with a graphic designer to rethink the school's print magazines in an
01:01:07 --> 01:01:13 age that prioritizes digital experiences was an exciting and rewarding challenge.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:18 The mother of two adult daughters, she recently relocated to New York City.
01:01:18 --> 01:01:24 And both Bremond and Lisa are going to talk about their venture,
01:01:25 --> 01:01:31 their new publishing company, Quite Literally Books, and their inaugural releases.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:36 So ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
01:01:36 --> 01:01:44 guest on this, or excuse me, as guests on this podcast, Bremond MacDougall and Lisa Cooper.
01:01:45 --> 01:01:55 Music.
01:01:55 --> 01:02:00 All right. I have two distinctive young ladies.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:06 I'm getting ready to talk to Bremond MacDougall and Lisa Cooper.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:07 How y'all doing? Y'all doing good?
01:02:08 --> 01:02:10 You're good. Thank you. Happy to be talking with you.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:16 Well, I'm honored to have y'all on because we want to talk about this little
01:02:16 --> 01:02:22 entrepreneurial thing that you've got going and, you know, expound on that a little bit.
01:02:22 --> 01:02:27 But to start the conversation, I do like some icebreakers.
01:02:27 --> 01:02:30 So the first icebreaker is a quote.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:35 And the quote is, we believe that you can never have too many books,
01:02:35 --> 01:02:38 just too few bookshelves.
01:02:38 --> 01:02:40 What does that quote mean to y'all?
01:02:40 --> 01:02:46 Oh, boy. It means that we have an addiction to books. That's what it means.
01:02:47 --> 01:02:51 That we need to stop collecting books. But not really.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:56 No, I mean, it feels like you can always make room for another book in your life.
01:02:56 --> 01:02:59 You know, obviously, you have to be able to accommodate the physical book,
01:03:00 --> 01:03:04 but we are both believers in the actual physical book.
01:03:04 --> 01:03:09 Being a really important part of a reading experience. It's not for everyone, for sure.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:15 And we encourage reading on whatever, you know, tablet or screen you want to use.
01:03:15 --> 01:03:19 But for us, the actual physical book is super important. So we just keep getting more.
01:03:20 --> 01:03:25 Yeah, it's nothing like pulling that book open and turning those pages.
01:03:26 --> 01:03:31 I know some of my younger listeners and friends will probably be like.
01:03:32 --> 01:03:34 Yeah, why you got to do all that?
01:03:34 --> 01:03:38 But, you know, like you said, it's something special. If you haven't done it,
01:03:38 --> 01:03:42 and most people have, but if you haven't done it, it is a special feeling.
01:03:42 --> 01:03:46 All right, guys, so I need y'all to pick a number between 1 and 20.
01:03:47 --> 01:03:54 Each of us or collectively? y'all can collectively do it you know 11 great can
01:03:54 --> 01:04:00 we do lucky number 11 today please 11 all right where do you go to check the
01:04:00 --> 01:04:04 fact check a fact that you see hear or read.
01:04:05 --> 01:04:11 That's really good. Well, I will confess to often consulting Wikipedia first,
01:04:11 --> 01:04:16 but I will also say that I have a full set of Encyclopedia Britannica.
01:04:16 --> 01:04:23 I have the physical books. I have a dictionary that's six inches thick.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:31 So I do like to confirm something in the newspaper or in a book or somewhere
01:04:31 --> 01:04:36 that just feels more real to me than finding it out online. I don't know. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
01:04:36 --> 01:04:40 You take everything you learn online with a grain of salt, for sure.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:46 Yeah. Okay. So, Bremond, I'm going to ask you a question.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:53 Biggest issue, what is the biggest issue that you deal with as a board member
01:04:53 --> 01:04:56 of the Citizens Committee for Children of New York?
01:04:56 --> 01:04:59 Gosh i mean i think the biggest issue that
01:04:59 --> 01:05:03 we deal with is is funding it's you
01:05:03 --> 01:05:07 know it's trying to get it's trying to bring attention to all
01:05:07 --> 01:05:11 of the things that affect the children in new
01:05:11 --> 01:05:15 york and their families and getting the resources pointed in that direction
01:05:15 --> 01:05:20 whether they're financial resources or personnel resources or what have you
01:05:20 --> 01:05:27 to to you know uplift the children of new york City who are the future of New
01:05:27 --> 01:05:30 York City, obviously, and their families.
01:05:30 --> 01:05:38 And there's a lot that needs to be done. And it's a real battle all the time to get the city to,
01:05:38 --> 01:05:44 and the people who live in the city, to focus on those children who really need
01:05:44 --> 01:05:52 services and affordable housing and food and education, all of those things. Yeah.
01:05:53 --> 01:05:58 And I don't know. So how does, so I'm kind of curious, how does your committee work in that?
01:05:58 --> 01:06:06 Are you like a flow through where people like say Ford Foundation will make
01:06:06 --> 01:06:11 a grant and they'll send it to you and then you disperse it or you raise your
01:06:11 --> 01:06:13 own money to do whatever y'all need to do?
01:06:13 --> 01:06:18 One of our big things that we do is we collect huge amounts of data,
01:06:18 --> 01:06:25 and the staff does, and they compile it in a huge database, which is available
01:06:25 --> 01:06:29 to really anyone who uses it. Nonprofits use it. The city uses it.
01:06:29 --> 01:06:34 We take their data and combine it with other data, and then the city uses it
01:06:34 --> 01:06:38 for their own research. And so that's one of the things that we do.
01:06:39 --> 01:06:43 But we also have community building programs.
01:06:43 --> 01:06:47 We have lots of, I'm trying to think of the word.
01:06:48 --> 01:06:54 We work with other organizations to form coalitions, to influence policy,
01:06:54 --> 01:06:59 to, you know, we go to Albany and talk to lawmakers there. We talk to lawmakers here in the city.
01:07:00 --> 01:07:08 You know, advocacy. Lots of talking and pushing and trying to get things done and made better.
01:07:09 --> 01:07:14 Okay. All right, Lisa, this is your question. Give me your thoughts about the
01:07:14 --> 01:07:20 current issues concerning immigration. Oh, I don't think we have time for me
01:07:20 --> 01:07:22 to give you all my thoughts on that.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:29 But yeah, I've been practicing immigration law since 2008.
01:07:29 --> 01:07:33 The first Trump administration years were tough.
01:07:34 --> 01:07:36 I have never been busier until now.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:41 And this is unprecedented. I was just telling Vermont the other day about this
01:07:41 --> 01:07:46 new alien registration requirement that just went into effect on April 11th.
01:07:46 --> 01:07:51 And it seems like when you look at it on its face, it might not feel that intrusive.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:58 But what it is, is it's another tool to track people is what it is.
01:07:58 --> 01:08:05 It's getting people who otherwise wouldn't have to make their presence known
01:08:05 --> 01:08:10 in this way, you know, onto the government database so that you can be trapped.
01:08:10 --> 01:08:15 And it criminalizes certain behaviors that weren't previously criminalized.
01:08:15 --> 01:08:22 For example, anyone who has a visa or has a green card, so legal permanent residence,
01:08:23 --> 01:08:26 you're supposed to, anytime you move, you're supposed to let the government
01:08:26 --> 01:08:28 know that you've moved, right? Not a big deal.
01:08:29 --> 01:08:31 Except now there's a criminal penalty to that.
01:08:32 --> 01:08:38 And there's also a criminal penalty if you are a parent of a child who is under
01:08:38 --> 01:08:40 14 when they enter the U.S.
01:08:40 --> 01:08:47 Legally again, and you become 14, you have 30 days as a parent or guardian to register that child.
01:08:47 --> 01:08:51 And if you don't, again, there are criminal penalties that can be applied to
01:08:51 --> 01:08:53 you. You can be deported.
01:08:53 --> 01:08:59 And so these kinds of, a lot of these existed on the books previously.
01:08:59 --> 01:09:03 They're just now being enforced and the ante is being upped.
01:09:03 --> 01:09:05 And we're seeing it across the board.
01:09:05 --> 01:09:10 So it's the kind of thing where we should all be paying attention to this stuff
01:09:10 --> 01:09:16 because it feels like any one thing may not seem huge collectively.
01:09:17 --> 01:09:24 It tells a very, very startling and we should be scared story about what this
01:09:24 --> 01:09:27 government feels like it can do with people and to people.
01:09:28 --> 01:09:36 Yeah. Yeah. So I worked for an immigrants rights group in 2008.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:46 Guess it was yeah 2008 i might have started in 2007 yeah so for 2007 2008 i worked for mississippi,
01:09:47 --> 01:09:54 immigrants rights alliance so i greatly appreciate the work that you do on the side.
01:09:55 --> 01:09:59 Considering that because it's a lot of people don't understand how much work
01:09:59 --> 01:10:05 is into just trying to do the right thing right all right so let's talk about
01:10:05 --> 01:10:10 quite literally books How did y'all come up with that?
01:10:10 --> 01:10:16 And well, first of all, how did y'all meet each other? How did this relationship start?
01:10:16 --> 01:10:20 Well, it started on the first day of seventh grade when I was the new kid at
01:10:20 --> 01:10:23 this little school in Austin, Texas.
01:10:23 --> 01:10:29 And this very kind girl took pity on me because there are only about four new
01:10:29 --> 01:10:32 kids in the class, didn't know anybody,
01:10:32 --> 01:10:37 really different world I was coming into, coming from a public school system
01:10:37 --> 01:10:41 into a private one. But it was really great.
01:10:41 --> 01:10:46 It wasn't pity. I just want to interrupt you right there. You were interesting.
01:10:47 --> 01:10:51 I was interesting. You were interesting and you were funny and you were different
01:10:51 --> 01:10:53 than people that I already knew.
01:10:54 --> 01:10:58 That's true. I was different there, wasn't I? You were really interesting.
01:10:58 --> 01:11:02 I was like, oh, wow, who is this? I want to know this person.
01:11:03 --> 01:11:08 And that has continued right from the get-go. We bonded. She makes me laugh.
01:11:08 --> 01:11:10 Vermont is like one of the funniest people I've ever met.
01:11:10 --> 01:11:14 And we both really loved to read, even back then. And books were definitely
01:11:14 --> 01:11:19 like a big foundational part of our friendship back then and continues to be today.
01:11:19 --> 01:11:24 And so in 2020, when we were sitting there during the pandemic,
01:11:24 --> 01:11:28 we both just turned 50 and we were like, what the heck are we going to do next?
01:11:28 --> 01:11:33 And, you know, everyone was reassessing their lives while watching their sourdough
01:11:33 --> 01:11:36 starter do its thing. And we were like, okay, let's do it.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:41 Books are going to be a part of it, whatever that looks like.
01:11:41 --> 01:11:46 And we both, you know, wanted to own a bookstore at one point or another,
01:11:46 --> 01:11:50 but then we thought we'd do something easier and open a publishing house,
01:11:50 --> 01:11:52 which in retrospect is ridiculous.
01:11:53 --> 01:11:56 I'm joking. It's not easy at all. There's nothing. We're just like super naive
01:11:56 --> 01:12:01 and very... I feel now like we could have opened a bookstore standing on our heads.
01:12:01 --> 01:12:04 I know. That sounds super easy to me right now. Yeah.
01:12:04 --> 01:12:09 No, but I mean, we went into it because we thought, I mean, honestly,
01:12:10 --> 01:12:11 we thought it would be fun.
01:12:11 --> 01:12:14 Like a big part of it is like, let's do something we enjoy.
01:12:15 --> 01:12:18 But very quickly, it became a lot more than that to us.
01:12:18 --> 01:12:24 You know, in terms of, like, one thing that I don't think we thought this through
01:12:24 --> 01:12:31 is that the very act of publishing itself, especially now, is a political act.
01:12:32 --> 01:12:38 You know, it is, and there is some power in it that we weren't expecting to
01:12:38 --> 01:12:40 be responsible for. Yeah.
01:12:40 --> 01:12:43 And the books that we choose, you know, it's important.
01:12:43 --> 01:12:47 It's actually they say something. They mean something. Yeah.
01:12:48 --> 01:12:57 So why did y'all choose the route to publish books that either have been published
01:12:57 --> 01:12:59 before or may not have been published?
01:12:59 --> 01:13:06 What was what was the thought behind doing that as opposed to seeking out new
01:13:06 --> 01:13:11 authors? I think part of it, I think it is maybe easier.
01:13:11 --> 01:13:15 We had no idea how to start a publishing firm with new authors,
01:13:15 --> 01:13:17 but we love old books. We love history.
01:13:18 --> 01:13:22 We love libraries. We love old stories.
01:13:23 --> 01:13:29 They're interesting to us. And so that seemed like a niche that we could sort
01:13:29 --> 01:13:36 of fit into was finding books, because we find books all the time that are unknown to us,
01:13:36 --> 01:13:40 that are, you know, older or whatever, and think, oh my gosh, have you read this?
01:13:40 --> 01:13:43 This is so great. Not the current stuff that everybody's reading about,
01:13:43 --> 01:13:47 that everybody knows about, but something that, you know, really feels like a gem.
01:13:47 --> 01:13:52 Like, oh, gosh, I found this in a used bookstore, and it's so great.
01:13:53 --> 01:13:57 That feeling is really— The treasure hunt of it is part of it,
01:13:57 --> 01:14:01 for sure. There's like a thrill in uncovering something, you know, that's been forgotten.
01:14:01 --> 01:14:06 There's no doubt about that. And if it comes in a really cool cover with really
01:14:06 --> 01:14:09 neat illustrations, which books used to do, that's really, you know,
01:14:09 --> 01:14:12 that's kind of a plus, too. That's sort of a fun thing to discover.
01:14:13 --> 01:14:19 So why do you, because you focus in on female authors.
01:14:19 --> 01:14:26 So why do you think so many books by women have been lost to history?
01:14:27 --> 01:14:30 We talk about this a lot, and I think there are several, I mean,
01:14:30 --> 01:14:33 there are lots of different reasons, you know, for any particular book,
01:14:33 --> 01:14:38 but I think in general, women then, and probably still today, by and large,
01:14:39 --> 01:14:45 write about issues that are about the home, or about relationships,
01:14:45 --> 01:14:47 or the interior lives of women.
01:14:48 --> 01:14:53 And I think this is becoming less and less the case, but even today,
01:14:53 --> 01:14:59 we talk about the category of chick lit, and you don't really see a lot of men gravitating to that.
01:14:59 --> 01:15:05 To the romance section. To the romance section or to books that are written
01:15:05 --> 01:15:07 by women that are about the interior lives of women.
01:15:08 --> 01:15:11 That's not generally what a man will pick up.
01:15:11 --> 01:15:18 And so I think if you immediately sort of cut out half the population of readers
01:15:18 --> 01:15:24 because of your subject matter, then it becomes hard to last over time, you know.
01:15:24 --> 01:15:29 And it's interesting because we don't, women don't really have that issue.
01:15:29 --> 01:15:33 Like, we regularly pick up books written by men that are about men,
01:15:33 --> 01:15:38 and we don't feel like that's, like, man-lit, you know, that's just a book.
01:15:38 --> 01:15:43 So there's, like, a default setting, I think, that favors male authors,
01:15:43 --> 01:15:47 even today, even though we're finding out now that there are more female readers
01:15:47 --> 01:15:52 than male readers, and that actually reading is becoming a lost art among men.
01:15:54 --> 01:16:00 Well, I'm not surprised by that. I think, you know, part of the culture that
01:16:00 --> 01:16:06 we're living in, you know, they're attacking education.
01:16:06 --> 01:16:11 So, you know, it's like, I guess it's manly now to be dumb. I don't know.
01:16:11 --> 01:16:13 I'm just, I just.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:17 That's kind of a message out there. Yeah, it is. It's kind of,
01:16:17 --> 01:16:20 that's kind of a message that's coming through. Yeah.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:31 So, is there a particular thing that you look for when you're trying to republish books?
01:16:32 --> 01:16:38 I'd say there's two main things that we look for. One is, first and foremost,
01:16:38 --> 01:16:39 is it has to be a good read.
01:16:39 --> 01:16:45 Like, we don't want to put something in the world that is just off. That you should read.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:50 Yeah, another book that we need to read or have to read and that is a slog to
01:16:50 --> 01:16:54 read is not our intent. We want it to be a pleasure to engage with the words
01:16:54 --> 01:16:56 of the book, first and foremost.
01:16:57 --> 01:17:02 But very quickly behind that, we love history, but we don't want to print something
01:17:02 --> 01:17:07 just for history's sake as an artifact. We want it to be something that tells
01:17:07 --> 01:17:09 us something about us today.
01:17:09 --> 01:17:15 We focus on American authors because we think that there's a lot of stuff that
01:17:15 --> 01:17:21 we are talking about today that we actually already talked about 100 years ago.
01:17:21 --> 01:17:22 And we seem to have forgotten that.
01:17:23 --> 01:17:31 And so this is an opportunity to, I think, uncover something 100 years old and
01:17:31 --> 01:17:35 say, hey, we're still talking about this today. It's still relevant today.
01:17:35 --> 01:17:39 And what we are going through right now isn't new.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:45 Why are we still processing it? These are like interesting questions, I think.
01:17:45 --> 01:17:53 And we feel like oftentimes there are people who need to be engaging in these
01:17:53 --> 01:17:57 sorts of conversations and they don't because they don't feel like they have standing.
01:17:58 --> 01:18:03 And reading a book about something and then opining on it,
01:18:03 --> 01:18:08 like opens the door for people to enter a conversation that they might otherwise
01:18:08 --> 01:18:10 be nervous about getting into
01:18:10 --> 01:18:13 or feel like they don't belong in it or shouldn't have a say about it.
01:18:13 --> 01:18:17 Oftentimes those are the very people that need to be engaging in those conversations.
01:18:18 --> 01:18:26 Yeah. So tell us about the three books on your inaugural list.
01:18:26 --> 01:18:31 I know one plumb bun, Jessie Redmond Fausett.
01:18:32 --> 01:18:37 So interesting connection for the listeners.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:44 Y'all already know this, but she was like an editor for the NAACP magazine, The Crisis.
01:18:44 --> 01:18:49 And so during her time, I guess she was literary editor before she became the
01:18:49 --> 01:18:54 full editor, but she oversaw the Brownie books,
01:18:55 --> 01:19:00 which were very popular with African-American children back then.
01:19:01 --> 01:19:03 The tie-in with me is that.
01:19:05 --> 01:19:09 The lady who wrote the new Brownie book has been a guest on the show,
01:19:09 --> 01:19:16 and she got nominated for, I think she actually won, the NAACP Award for Literature
01:19:16 --> 01:19:19 the year that she did the show and did the book.
01:19:19 --> 01:19:25 So, Ms. Fausett, I'm somewhat familiar with, but the other authors, I'm not.
01:19:25 --> 01:19:28 So, kind of tell us a little bit about all three of those books,
01:19:29 --> 01:19:35 The Plum Bun, The Homemaker, and The Pink House. Well, since you brought up Plum bun first, yes.
01:19:36 --> 01:19:40 So, Jessie Redmond Fausett is so interesting because she was responsible for
01:19:40 --> 01:19:46 launching so many literary careers and was a really important figure of the Harlem Renaissance.
01:19:47 --> 01:19:49 And yet, she's not really known today.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:53 It's not a familiar name. You know, the number of people that we've told about
01:19:53 --> 01:19:57 this book, you know, have never heard of her or Plum bun.
01:19:58 --> 01:20:03 Plum Bun was actually published, I believe, the same year that Nella Larson published Passing.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:09 And that book has had a lot of attention over the years. And most recently,
01:20:09 --> 01:20:10 I think, was made into a movie.
01:20:11 --> 01:20:17 The themes are similar. It's about a young woman who is very talented.
01:20:17 --> 01:20:19 She's beautiful. She's ambitious.
01:20:19 --> 01:20:24 And she's light-skinned. And so the world perceives her or can perceive her
01:20:24 --> 01:20:31 as white. And when her parents pass, she makes this decision to live her life.
01:20:32 --> 01:20:38 Allowing these assumptions and to see, you know, what opportunities will be
01:20:38 --> 01:20:41 open to her if she just lets people assume that she's white.
01:20:41 --> 01:20:44 And it's a really, really interesting story.
01:20:44 --> 01:20:50 She is not the most likable character, but we find the stuff that she thinks
01:20:50 --> 01:20:53 about and the, you know, questions of identity.
01:20:53 --> 01:20:56 There's a lot of intersectionality in this book.
01:20:56 --> 01:21:01 It's all the same stuff that we're talking about and writers are writing about today.
01:21:01 --> 01:21:05 You know, several months ago, I read Brit Bennett's The Vanishing Half,
01:21:05 --> 01:21:09 and it's exactly like this. You know, it's the same themes.
01:21:09 --> 01:21:13 So we think it's definitely got a place on a modern reader's bookshelf.
01:21:13 --> 01:21:17 You know, this book is almost not quite 100 years old.
01:21:17 --> 01:21:20 The writing is so good. I don't think
01:21:20 --> 01:21:23 Jesse Redmond Fausett gets enough credit for just being a
01:21:23 --> 01:21:26 good writer her characters are not
01:21:26 --> 01:21:29 typical and so you enjoy
01:21:29 --> 01:21:34 spending time with them even if you you know don't necessarily want Angela to
01:21:34 --> 01:21:38 be your best friend the choices she makes and the way she thinks about the world
01:21:38 --> 01:21:43 about relationships about men sex career like really will resonate I think with
01:21:43 --> 01:21:48 a modern reader which is I it's hard to believe that a hundred-year-old book, I think,
01:21:48 --> 01:21:51 can still have that resonance.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:55 But we have that with The Homemaker as well. Yeah. So The Homemaker is by Dorothy
01:21:55 --> 01:22:02 Canfield Fisher, and it was written in 1924, so it's 100 years old plus. And it's about a family.
01:22:03 --> 01:22:08 The mother is a traditional stay-at-home mom, as most women were in the 1920s.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:12 The father goes out to work. They have three children. The.
01:22:14 --> 01:22:21 Sort of an obsessive housekeeper, and she's miserable, and she's making her family miserable.
01:22:21 --> 01:22:23 Her children all have various health ailments.
01:22:24 --> 01:22:29 Her husband hates working. He hates his job. He wants to be,
01:22:29 --> 01:22:31 I don't know, he wanted to be a poet, I think.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:36 And there's an accident which forces them to sort of change places,
01:22:36 --> 01:22:39 and the father is forced to stay at home.
01:22:39 --> 01:22:41 He can't work anymore and the mom is forced to
01:22:41 --> 01:22:45 go out and get a job to support the family and
01:22:45 --> 01:22:52 everybody settles into their sort of the place that they should have been the
01:22:52 --> 01:22:58 mom is extremely successful in her sales career and happy and the father stays
01:22:58 --> 01:23:02 at home and keeps the house and takes care of the children,
01:23:03 --> 01:23:06 and everyone everyone is happier and healthier but it's
01:23:06 --> 01:23:09 an interesting there's some things that the father
01:23:09 --> 01:23:12 some rules that he doesn't have
01:23:12 --> 01:23:15 to follow that are that are really interesting as a man
01:23:15 --> 01:23:18 staying home he sort of has the liberty to say
01:23:18 --> 01:23:21 i'm not gonna i'm not gonna
01:23:21 --> 01:23:26 obsess about you know making sure that every little thing is clean and perfect
01:23:26 --> 01:23:31 and because he's doing something new because yeah because he's doing he's inventing
01:23:31 --> 01:23:36 this yeah this new role and society hasn't prescribed what a stay-at-home dad
01:23:36 --> 01:23:38 should do or what that looks like.
01:23:39 --> 01:23:41 And the wife is able to go out.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:47 Sort of without guilt, because I think most working women have a lot of guilt
01:23:47 --> 01:23:50 about, you know, they're not doing enough for either thing.
01:23:51 --> 01:23:53 They're not, you know, they're not doing enough for their job,
01:23:54 --> 01:23:55 but they're also not doing enough for their home.
01:23:56 --> 01:24:03 And she's able to go out and work and enjoy her work and let that be enough,
01:24:03 --> 01:24:05 which I think is really... Which is radical.
01:24:05 --> 01:24:10 Yeah, it is. Radical in 1924, and I feel like it's still... It's a radical suggestion.
01:24:10 --> 01:24:16 Yeah, it's a radical suggestion. It's an interesting maybe handbook for modern couples to consider,
01:24:17 --> 01:24:23 you know, like where the man so completely takes care of the home in a way where
01:24:23 --> 01:24:29 she is freed up to be fully invested in her career, you know.
01:24:30 --> 01:24:35 And then The Pink House, it was interesting, we were talking about earlier about
01:24:35 --> 01:24:41 sort of men not reading books about women's interior lives.
01:24:41 --> 01:24:46 And I was thinking, you know, a lot of women love, say, Pride and Prejudice.
01:24:46 --> 01:24:47 Like, that's one of my favorite books.
01:24:48 --> 01:24:52 I don't think boys read that book in the same way that girls read that book.
01:24:52 --> 01:24:55 Do boys read that book? I don't think so. I mean, I don't.
01:24:55 --> 01:25:00 And say, oh, I love Jane Austen. Yeah. Oh, I love the Bronte sisters.
01:25:01 --> 01:25:06 That doesn't really happen. And the pink house is more in that vein.
01:25:06 --> 01:25:13 It's more of a timeless story of a family living all together in a house.
01:25:13 --> 01:25:20 There's an outsider who joins the family and watches and records what is happening
01:25:20 --> 01:25:25 and all of the undercurrents and secrets and things that are going on within
01:25:25 --> 01:25:28 herself and within the family group.
01:25:28 --> 01:25:34 And it's more like those classics that women think of as classics.
01:25:34 --> 01:25:40 And I think maybe men give lip service, too, but probably haven't read as much. Yeah.
01:25:41 --> 01:25:47 I want to just bring up, we kind of went past the author, Dorothy Campbell Fisher,
01:25:47 --> 01:25:50 who is a really interesting character.
01:25:51 --> 01:25:53 So she's credited with bringing— She's the author of The Homemaker.
01:25:53 --> 01:25:55 Yeah, sorry, the homemaker.
01:25:55 --> 01:26:00 She is credited for bringing the Montessori method to the United States.
01:26:00 --> 01:26:04 And you see a lot of that sort of experiential learning being,
01:26:04 --> 01:26:09 you know, used by Lester, the dad, and how he approaches child rearing.
01:26:09 --> 01:26:14 And so that's really interesting. And she herself.
01:26:15 --> 01:26:22 Although a champion of civil rights and a lot of civil rights things that were,
01:26:22 --> 01:26:29 I think, sort of cutting edge in 1924, she also was a part of the Vermont eugenics movement.
01:26:29 --> 01:26:38 And so she's a really good example of how we have to engage, you know,
01:26:38 --> 01:26:42 not only with the time period that the books might have been written in,
01:26:42 --> 01:26:47 but we have to engage with complex people from that time period.
01:26:47 --> 01:26:53 And there's a lot of nuance that you have to, like, be willing to acknowledge.
01:26:54 --> 01:26:57 And there's a lot of discomfort in it as well. And it's like,
01:26:57 --> 01:27:01 how can this person have these two opposing views, you know?
01:27:01 --> 01:27:06 Well, you know, over time, things develop. They don't always develop for the better.
01:27:07 --> 01:27:10 And we talk about blind spots and, you know.
01:27:11 --> 01:27:16 How, yeah, could she not see that the eugenics movement in Vermont,
01:27:16 --> 01:27:22 which was focused on attracting the right kind of people to come to Vermont
01:27:22 --> 01:27:28 and keeping the wrong kind of people from reproducing in Vermont,
01:27:28 --> 01:27:33 how could she also be a champion of Black civil rights?
01:27:34 --> 01:27:38 When you say that like that, I feel like that's really common today.
01:27:38 --> 01:27:42 Like, you know, the right people. Well, I'm just thinking about like,
01:27:42 --> 01:27:49 so, you know, I grew up in Austin, Texas, right? which is a liberal bastion in a sea of red.
01:27:53 --> 01:27:58 And then we've spent time on the East Coast. I've also spent time in California
01:27:58 --> 01:28:02 in the San Francisco Bay Area, which is considered one of the most liberal places
01:28:02 --> 01:28:06 in the country. And it is.
01:28:06 --> 01:28:11 And I think that there's just as much racism there.
01:28:11 --> 01:28:15 It just looks different. And there is that thing that people do,
01:28:15 --> 01:28:19 which is like, they're really big and like believing in the right causes and
01:28:19 --> 01:28:20 saying the right things.
01:28:20 --> 01:28:24 But then there's that moment of, but not in my backyard.
01:28:24 --> 01:28:26 And I think that happens a lot.
01:28:28 --> 01:28:34 Yeah. So, you know, that time period, a lot of the intellectuals were progressive
01:28:34 --> 01:28:40 in the fact that they felt that people should have rights and people should
01:28:40 --> 01:28:41 enjoy full citizenship.
01:28:42 --> 01:28:51 But at the same time, they they also had this intellectual argument that there's finite resources.
01:28:52 --> 01:28:58 And like you said, they wanted people that they were they were kind of the opposite
01:28:58 --> 01:29:05 where they felt if if you could be more intellectual, there wouldn't be as much poverty. Right.
01:29:06 --> 01:29:10 And, you know, so they came up with all these different thoughts.
01:29:10 --> 01:29:14 And, you know, I mean, Margaret Sanger is part of that, comes out of that.
01:29:14 --> 01:29:20 And, you know, so, yeah, it's like you said, it's very complex in this day and age.
01:29:21 --> 01:29:25 People would be a little squirmish to have those kind of discussions with folks.
01:29:25 --> 01:29:32 But the reality is that at the time they were they were supposed to be the intellectual elite.
01:29:33 --> 01:29:35 Right. And that was one of the discussions.
01:29:39 --> 01:29:49 So, I guess so. Would you consider these books targets for,
01:29:49 --> 01:29:54 and I'm not encouraging it, but based on the subject matter and stuff,
01:29:54 --> 01:29:58 do you think in this climate that these books would be, let's just say these
01:29:58 --> 01:30:03 books were more in circulation prior to y'all rediscovering them.
01:30:03 --> 01:30:09 Do you think that they would be in line to fall under these book bans that we're dealing with?
01:30:09 --> 01:30:13 And I know that y'all are against that, but...
01:30:14 --> 01:30:20 Why do you, I mean, why would you think, if they were, why would you think that
01:30:20 --> 01:30:22 they would fall in that category?
01:30:22 --> 01:30:31 I don't know. For me, it's kind of inscrutable, the criteria that are used to ban books.
01:30:31 --> 01:30:36 I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I think it's really hard to tell why something
01:30:36 --> 01:30:39 is offensive to someone.
01:30:39 --> 01:30:43 I don't know if any of these books would fall into that category at all.
01:30:43 --> 01:30:47 Maybe plumb bun because there is
01:30:47 --> 01:30:50 intersectionality and that's a bad word that you know
01:30:50 --> 01:30:53 we're not supposed to use or talk about but
01:30:53 --> 01:30:56 well we don't we don't work for the government so we're good we're
01:30:56 --> 01:30:59 weird when i say we i'm speaking
01:30:59 --> 01:31:04 yeah we do talk about it lisa and i and we do use but i think that plumb bun
01:31:04 --> 01:31:09 definitely could come under fire i mean it's again it's like a you know one
01:31:09 --> 01:31:13 really interesting thing that we've talked a lot about is there's always this
01:31:13 --> 01:31:17 moment in these books that are about passing specifically,
01:31:17 --> 01:31:21 where the person is discovered, you know?
01:31:22 --> 01:31:29 And in that moment, white people are so angry, betrayed, you know?
01:31:29 --> 01:31:34 They're betrayed because they feel like the wool's been pulled over their eyes,
01:31:34 --> 01:31:38 only they were the ones that were making the assumptions all the way through.
01:31:39 --> 01:31:42 It's all on them. And yet there's that moment of like,
01:31:42 --> 01:31:45 feeling like how could you do this yeah you
01:31:45 --> 01:31:49 did this to me yeah you know and i
01:31:49 --> 01:31:59 feel like that sort of describes a way of thinking that still exists today like
01:31:59 --> 01:32:05 and and i think that a book like one bun you know brought out of the past and
01:32:05 --> 01:32:08 showing a strong female character who,
01:32:08 --> 01:32:11 makes choices that are kind of.
01:32:13 --> 01:32:16 To me, they're really feminist choices, you know. They're very pragmatic.
01:32:17 --> 01:32:20 Very pragmatic. She's very pragmatic about her job, about her relationships,
01:32:21 --> 01:32:23 about, you know, what marriage can and will do for her.
01:32:24 --> 01:32:30 So, yeah, I think that that could be definitely one that people would not want in their libraries.
01:32:31 --> 01:32:36 Wouldn't want their children to read. And, you know, maybe it seems like there's
01:32:36 --> 01:32:40 more and more emphasis being placed on quote-unquote traditional families,
01:32:41 --> 01:32:42 meaning a mother-in-law.
01:32:42 --> 01:32:48 A father, father being, looks like a provider and the mother being someone who
01:32:48 --> 01:32:50 cares for and has a lot of children.
01:32:50 --> 01:32:57 And I'm not knocking that, but in America nowadays, like so many different kinds of families, right?
01:32:57 --> 01:33:04 I think that a book that flips that on its head might also feel subversive to certain groups.
01:33:05 --> 01:33:07 So it could be the homemaker too.
01:33:08 --> 01:33:13 And then, yeah, I don't know about, I think the pink house is sort of a gothic
01:33:13 --> 01:33:15 romance. I mean, I guess somebody could object.
01:33:16 --> 01:33:20 I don't know why you'd waste your time objecting to that, but I don't know why
01:33:20 --> 01:33:23 you'd waste your time objecting to any of these, to be honest.
01:33:24 --> 01:33:33 Yeah, I think, you know, the scenario of one adult staying home and one adult
01:33:33 --> 01:33:39 working is more of a luxury in this day and age than,
01:33:39 --> 01:33:43 you know, as far as any controversy goes.
01:33:43 --> 01:33:48 I just don't think our economics really give us that opportunity,
01:33:48 --> 01:33:53 not unless, you know, you just happen to have a position that that that a lot
01:33:53 --> 01:33:55 affords you that lifestyle.
01:33:56 --> 01:33:59 So to earners, that's that's that's the.
01:34:00 --> 01:34:03 Truth of it and when when people talk about
01:34:03 --> 01:34:06 you know women having more babies and boosting the
01:34:06 --> 01:34:08 birth rate and you know staying home and
01:34:08 --> 01:34:12 and doing that you know helping women
01:34:12 --> 01:34:14 is not helping them to have more babies it's helping them
01:34:14 --> 01:34:17 to be able to work and you know and
01:34:17 --> 01:34:20 take care of their family because most women need to work
01:34:20 --> 01:34:24 most families need two earners and that's
01:34:24 --> 01:34:27 just the fact of you know that's just a fact of
01:34:27 --> 01:34:31 our life yeah so when
01:34:31 --> 01:34:36 are these books going to be available and where will people be able to get them
01:34:36 --> 01:34:40 they're out they're out in the world they are that's right they were supposed
01:34:40 --> 01:34:46 to come out in april the 7th 7th they launched yes so people can find them on
01:34:46 --> 01:34:51 our website we're at quite literally books.com and you can order directly from us.
01:34:51 --> 01:34:56 Or you can go to your local independent bookstore and ask them for it.
01:34:56 --> 01:34:59 They can order it through our distributor at Asterism.
01:34:59 --> 01:35:04 And yeah, there's, please do, please, please do, please read these books.
01:35:04 --> 01:35:05 I think you'll like them.
01:35:06 --> 01:35:10 And we really encourage people to share what they think with us.
01:35:10 --> 01:35:15 You know, we have, sorry, a presence on Instagram, quite literally books.
01:35:15 --> 01:35:19 And there's a place to write us on our website. You can also send us a letter.
01:35:20 --> 01:35:25 We love paper. So if you want to actually take a moment, write us a note,
01:35:25 --> 01:35:29 send it to us, we will get it, we will read it, and we will write you back. We'll respond.
01:35:30 --> 01:35:35 Okay. So have you already started working on the next titles?
01:35:35 --> 01:35:41 Are y'all going to do like three at a time or how's that going to work?
01:35:42 --> 01:35:45 That's what plan is to do three books twice a year
01:35:45 --> 01:35:49 so we'll have another three that come out in november and we are working on
01:35:49 --> 01:35:55 those right now because you need a lot of lead time so the one one that we can
01:35:55 --> 01:36:00 that we have been talking about is a book called her land which is by charlotte
01:36:00 --> 01:36:03 perkins thank you and it's a it's a.
01:36:05 --> 01:36:10 That is, it's a fascinating world where it's just women and they have somehow
01:36:10 --> 01:36:15 developed a way of reproducing asexually. So men are not necessary.
01:36:15 --> 01:36:20 And some explorers come upon this society.
01:36:20 --> 01:36:25 And, you know, it's about what happens when these three men enter this society.
01:36:26 --> 01:36:30 And the differences between the society that the men describe and the society
01:36:30 --> 01:36:33 that the women know and are living in are, are striking.
01:36:34 --> 01:36:39 It's a really, it's, it's a really, it's a good book and it was written a hundred years ago.
01:36:39 --> 01:36:42 It was for its time, you know, very, very modern.
01:36:43 --> 01:36:47 So it's, it's, it's a fun book to read, but it's also a really interesting thing
01:36:47 --> 01:36:49 to think about. It's a really, it's very thought provoking.
01:36:50 --> 01:36:53 All right. So that's, that's one more, I guess the book police are going to
01:36:53 --> 01:36:56 be looking at. Possibly, yes.
01:36:57 --> 01:37:01 So since y'all have already kind of done the plug, what is,
01:37:01 --> 01:37:04 let's close out with what what do you
01:37:04 --> 01:37:08 seek for quite literally
01:37:08 --> 01:37:11 books first of all how did y'all come up with the title just
01:37:11 --> 01:37:18 you know lots of we braced for yeah and got weirder and weirder and weirder
01:37:18 --> 01:37:22 and then finally one day and it was really like a light bulb moment you're just
01:37:22 --> 01:37:28 like oh we are literally talking about books it was just like that and then
01:37:28 --> 01:37:31 once we got it we knew that was it like no more discussion.
01:37:32 --> 01:37:35 Yes, but there was all kinds of goofy stuff before that. Weird names started.
01:37:35 --> 01:37:38 We got country trying to think of something, you know.
01:37:39 --> 01:37:44 Yeah, so quite literally books. What's the future? What do you hope to achieve
01:37:44 --> 01:37:47 with this publishing company?
01:37:47 --> 01:37:52 Well, you know, we've said this and I kind of talked about it.
01:37:52 --> 01:37:57 Like, we think that a good book from yesterday is a great place to start a conversation today.
01:37:57 --> 01:38:02 So we're hoping to help build out a community that engages around these books
01:38:02 --> 01:38:09 and is, you know, sort of develops a facility in how we have difficult conversations.
01:38:10 --> 01:38:16 This is, this isn't easy stuff. And there's a lot of, a lot of things that sort
01:38:16 --> 01:38:20 of, like we're not talking about Dorothy Canfield Fisher, like how does one
01:38:20 --> 01:38:22 person like believe this and do that.
01:38:22 --> 01:38:27 Like, you know, this is the state of human beings. This is how we are.
01:38:27 --> 01:38:31 And we have to get better at talking about that.
01:38:31 --> 01:38:39 And we have to get better at figuring out, you know, is something so egregious
01:38:39 --> 01:38:42 that we, you know, cancel it? It's like we're done with it?
01:38:42 --> 01:38:49 Or do we go kind of where the pain is and figure out what that tension point is?
01:38:49 --> 01:38:53 You know, do we keep sweeping things under the rug, or do we deal with it?
01:38:53 --> 01:38:59 And we're hoping that this sort of plays, I mean, it'll be a small role,
01:38:59 --> 01:39:05 but maybe it can be an important role because this change happens one conversation at a time.
01:39:06 --> 01:39:10 Yeah. Well, I mean, you can make the same argument about this podcast.
01:39:11 --> 01:39:17 You know, it's just a small role, but, you know, I'm trying to do the best I can.
01:39:18 --> 01:39:22 And what makes it easy is having great guests like you all.
01:39:22 --> 01:39:29 So Bremond McDougall and Lisa Cooper, I greatly appreciate y'all coming on.
01:39:29 --> 01:39:31 I wish you much success.
01:39:32 --> 01:39:40 And I think it was me personally, I think it was rather ingenious that you decided
01:39:40 --> 01:39:47 to uplift female authors that at the time may have been respected,
01:39:47 --> 01:39:53 but have been forgotten about in the long run and to remind people about their
01:39:53 --> 01:39:57 greatness and the great literature that they put out.
01:39:57 --> 01:40:01 So I thank you for that. And I thank you for coming on the podcast.
01:40:01 --> 01:40:05 Thank you so much for having us. This has been a really great conversation.
01:40:06 --> 01:40:09 All right. All right, guys, we're going to go ahead and catch y'all on the other side.
01:40:11 --> 01:40:22 Music.
01:40:21 --> 01:40:26 All right. And we are back. So I just want to thank Jordan Colvin,
01:40:27 --> 01:40:38 Braymone, McDougal, and Lisa Cooper for coming on the podcast and talking about
01:40:38 --> 01:40:43 their endeavors and their thoughts about what's going on in the world.
01:40:43 --> 01:40:48 And, you know, one thing that I did gather from them was there is some hope.
01:40:50 --> 01:40:56 And what I appreciate is that they are out there doing what they can,
01:40:56 --> 01:41:00 whether it's through a publishing company or lobbying, whatever,
01:41:01 --> 01:41:06 you know, given political analysis, whatever they can contribute to make sure
01:41:06 --> 01:41:10 that we keep moving forward.
01:41:11 --> 01:41:15 You know, the actions of people make a difference.
01:41:16 --> 01:41:20 And, you know, the old adage, action speaks louder than words.
01:41:21 --> 01:41:30 So I think the lesson that we should learn from previous elections is that we
01:41:30 --> 01:41:37 need to know a lot more about the people that are offering themselves to run.
01:41:38 --> 01:41:44 And not get caught up in a trap. See, I can speak to this as a black person.
01:41:46 --> 01:41:56 Because one of the advantages of being a black elected official or being a black
01:41:56 --> 01:42:01 politician is if you're running in a district that is majority black,
01:42:02 --> 01:42:07 You know, people are going to gravity to you. Now, if you're running in a,
01:42:08 --> 01:42:10 or if you're, let me, a better example.
01:42:11 --> 01:42:15 If you're running statewide, once black people find out that you're black,
01:42:15 --> 01:42:17 they're going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
01:42:18 --> 01:42:22 And they're going to get behind you. Now, if you turn out to be a scoundrel,
01:42:22 --> 01:42:28 turn out to be a lowlife, they're going to abandon you quicker than you can blink.
01:42:29 --> 01:42:33 Right? Right. But if you're a good person, black folks are going to get behind you.
01:42:34 --> 01:42:38 The negative side, of course, is that everybody else ain't going to like you
01:42:38 --> 01:42:45 too much until you're able to convince them that you're the right person for that job. Right.
01:42:47 --> 01:42:51 Which is fair, you know, because, you know, you're under more scrutiny.
01:42:51 --> 01:42:59 And I throw that example out because even now, I think we as black people need to be more,
01:42:59 --> 01:43:06 have more scrutiny and not just vote for the black face that's there. Right.
01:43:06 --> 01:43:13 We need to really know who these people are, what their positions are. Right.
01:43:14 --> 01:43:19 Now, I'm not big on character assassination.
01:43:20 --> 01:43:25 You know, I've been a target of that. I've had to deal with that.
01:43:25 --> 01:43:28 And I think anybody that's been in the public light and public service has had
01:43:28 --> 01:43:30 to deal with that. Right.
01:43:31 --> 01:43:37 And, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean anything.
01:43:37 --> 01:43:43 I think the most personal thing people need to understand about a candidate
01:43:43 --> 01:43:48 is how they are around people, right?
01:43:50 --> 01:43:54 And how they interact with people when they think nobody is looking.
01:43:55 --> 01:43:59 And I guess that's one thing that this new age of technology is like.
01:43:59 --> 01:44:05 It catches people in moments when they don't think that they're being scrutinized,
01:44:05 --> 01:44:08 right? And you can really see their true selves.
01:44:09 --> 01:44:14 And if you're attracted to people who are obnoxious and rude and crazy,
01:44:14 --> 01:44:17 well, you know, there's plenty of candidates out there. There's a whole political
01:44:17 --> 01:44:20 party, in my opinion, that feels that way.
01:44:21 --> 01:44:27 You know, and I recently just asked somebody a question about somebody that I see on TV all the time.
01:44:27 --> 01:44:33 And they said, are they really that obnoxious or is that just an act for TV?
01:44:33 --> 01:44:37 And I said, yeah, yeah, that person really is. So, you know,
01:44:37 --> 01:44:41 if you can read people, right?
01:44:42 --> 01:44:45 And if you can read people, then you can make an assessment.
01:44:45 --> 01:44:47 Now, you know, they might sound good.
01:44:47 --> 01:44:51 There's a lot of people that make a living selling stuff, right?
01:44:53 --> 01:44:57 And your only interaction with them is if they're trying to sell you a TV or
01:44:57 --> 01:45:02 a car or whatever the case may be. You don't really know anything personal about
01:45:02 --> 01:45:04 them and you don't really care.
01:45:04 --> 01:45:09 You're not concerned about what commission they got. You want to know if the
01:45:09 --> 01:45:12 product that they're trying to sell you is what you really want.
01:45:13 --> 01:45:17 And then sometimes, you know, the product doesn't live up to all the hype that
01:45:17 --> 01:45:20 was given. But that's salesmanship, right?
01:45:21 --> 01:45:27 And politics is kind of like that. It's salesmanship because the only commodity
01:45:27 --> 01:45:30 that you're dealing with is trust.
01:45:31 --> 01:45:35 You know, you have to trust the person that is presenting themselves to you
01:45:35 --> 01:45:39 that they are going to do the best job in your best interest.
01:45:41 --> 01:45:46 And why I say your best interest, not just selfishly, but community-wise, right?
01:45:48 --> 01:45:52 Are they going to be good for black folks? Are they going to be good for our city?
01:45:52 --> 01:45:56 They're going to be good for our county, our state, our nation, right?
01:45:57 --> 01:46:01 So, you know, you've got to weigh all that at the end.
01:46:02 --> 01:46:07 And you've got to be able to decipher some of the stuff that they say to make
01:46:07 --> 01:46:12 sure it lines up with your wallet and your safety, your family's safety,
01:46:13 --> 01:46:16 your friend's safety, and their wallets, right?
01:46:17 --> 01:46:22 You don't want to elect somebody that's talking some way and you find out the
01:46:22 --> 01:46:26 code that they were using was basically to get rid of your job, right?
01:46:27 --> 01:46:32 So, you know, I don't get mad at people in West Virginia when folks say,
01:46:33 --> 01:46:36 yeah, we're going to get rid of coal and these folks are working in the coal
01:46:36 --> 01:46:37 industry, they're like, well,
01:46:38 --> 01:46:40 yeah, I'm not voting for somebody who's going to get rid of coal,
01:46:41 --> 01:46:42 right? That makes sense.
01:46:44 --> 01:46:50 Although I don't think people need to be killing themselves working in a coal
01:46:50 --> 01:46:52 mine anymore, but that's just me.
01:46:53 --> 01:46:58 Those folks in West Virginia have a whole culture of that. And so if you're
01:46:58 --> 01:47:01 not going to give them a better option, you're just saying, I'm going to get
01:47:01 --> 01:47:05 rid of their job. They're not going to support you, right? That makes sense.
01:47:07 --> 01:47:12 So, you know, you have to look at candidates.
01:47:12 --> 01:47:16 And I'm not saying this in a critical way.
01:47:17 --> 01:47:25 I'm just saying that we have to do a better job collectively of looking at candidates and deciding.
01:47:25 --> 01:47:31 Because now the new flavor is youth, right?
01:47:31 --> 01:47:37 So we've got this struggle within the Democratic Party where a young man,
01:47:37 --> 01:47:41 David Holt, who I think is Holt.
01:47:41 --> 01:47:45 I don't want to say Hogg, but Hogg might be the correct pronunciation.
01:47:45 --> 01:47:50 But David's a newly elected vice chair of the Democratic National Committee.
01:47:51 --> 01:48:01 And he set up a PAC to try to get younger, more activist candidates to run against incumbents.
01:48:03 --> 01:48:10 Not necessarily all incumbents, just incumbents in seats that are like super
01:48:10 --> 01:48:12 Democratic seats, right?
01:48:13 --> 01:48:19 So either way it goes, it'll be a Democrat. Whoever wins the primary will probably win the election.
01:48:19 --> 01:48:23 Those are the districts that he's targeting. And if there's not a quote-unquote
01:48:23 --> 01:48:31 progressive person or young person in that position, then David wants and his
01:48:31 --> 01:48:32 organization wants to primary them.
01:48:33 --> 01:48:37 Now, one of the old lions who I'm about tired of hearing myself,
01:48:37 --> 01:48:43 but he's earned his place and respect in Democratic circles, James Carville, was.
01:48:46 --> 01:48:52 Haseley wants to tar and feather David. He wants to string David out.
01:48:52 --> 01:48:56 He wants him to be kicked out of politics and the Democratic Party and all that stuff.
01:48:57 --> 01:49:02 Because he doesn't believe in that. But, you know, I have to remind James because,
01:49:02 --> 01:49:05 you know, he was Bill Clinton's campaign manager.
01:49:05 --> 01:49:12 And Bill Clinton was the new idea for the Democratic Party, the Democratic Leadership
01:49:12 --> 01:49:15 Council and all that stuff back in the 90s.
01:49:15 --> 01:49:19 You know, Mike Espy and all those guys, you know, that they were the new breed
01:49:19 --> 01:49:23 of Democrats and they were swinging for the fences.
01:49:24 --> 01:49:32 Now, they didn't necessarily go after incumbents, but, you know, it was the same mindset.
01:49:32 --> 01:49:36 They were the new kids on the block and it was time for them to take the national
01:49:36 --> 01:49:39 stage, which is really what David's trying to do.
01:49:42 --> 01:49:48 So what I want people to understand about that is, if your incumbent is doing
01:49:48 --> 01:49:51 the job, you support them.
01:49:51 --> 01:49:55 If the incumbent is not doing the job, you replace them.
01:49:56 --> 01:50:00 I've been on, well, I've been on one end of the spectrum. I didn't replace an
01:50:00 --> 01:50:03 incumbent, but I was an incumbent that was replaced, right?
01:50:04 --> 01:50:10 So, you know, the people made a decision and they had nine years to make that call.
01:50:11 --> 01:50:16 You know, a friend of mine who's been the mayor of Jackson for eight years just got defeated.
01:50:18 --> 01:50:24 You know, in the last election, he got like almost 75 percent of the vote. But this time he lost.
01:50:25 --> 01:50:28 Right. Because people decided they want to go in a different direction.
01:50:29 --> 01:50:31 That's how politics is supposed to work.
01:50:33 --> 01:50:38 You may not like it personally If you're that candidate that loses But you deal
01:50:38 --> 01:50:41 with that That's the risk you take every time you put your name on a ballot
01:50:41 --> 01:50:43 I've lost more elections than I've won.
01:50:46 --> 01:50:53 But that's how it goes You know And so We're at a point in the Democratic Party
01:50:53 --> 01:50:57 Where it's Evolution time.
01:50:59 --> 01:51:03 It's generational time I have said it out loud and to my friends,
01:51:03 --> 01:51:05 and I'll say it again on this podcast,
01:51:06 --> 01:51:13 Kamala Harris might be the only Gen X-er we have that had a shot at being president
01:51:13 --> 01:51:16 on the Democratic side. She might be it.
01:51:17 --> 01:51:19 Because, you know, Barack is...
01:51:20 --> 01:51:20 You know, some people want to
01:51:20 --> 01:51:24 put him as a Gen X, but he's really a baby boomer based on his birth date.
01:51:24 --> 01:51:28 You know, he's the baby of the baby boomers, but he was a boomer.
01:51:30 --> 01:51:33 So, you know, Bill Clinton is a boomer.
01:51:34 --> 01:51:41 So, you know, we really did. Kamala was the only Gen X person that had a legitimate shot at winning.
01:51:41 --> 01:51:47 So my generation may not have a person become president of the United States on the Democratic side,
01:51:47 --> 01:51:53 Because now we have people like Jasmine Crockett and AOC and Maxwell Frost and
01:51:53 --> 01:52:00 all these younger generations that are emerging and have acquired political basis.
01:52:01 --> 01:52:06 And they're the ones who are saying these old folks got to go.
01:52:06 --> 01:52:14 Some are more polite than others, but, you know, it's a challenge for the leadership. Right.
01:52:15 --> 01:52:22 And maybe it was my generation's fault that we let the boomers stay in too long. I don't know.
01:52:23 --> 01:52:25 All I can say is this.
01:52:26 --> 01:52:31 Change is inevitable. And it's either going to come through evolution or it's
01:52:31 --> 01:52:34 going to come through revolution. But change is coming.
01:52:35 --> 01:52:40 And, you know, I definitely think there needs to be a change on the other side
01:52:40 --> 01:52:44 of the aisle. But change is coming for the Democrats, too.
01:52:44 --> 01:52:51 And those of us who are now observing need to watch how that dynamic goes.
01:52:51 --> 01:52:57 But that goes back to the initial statement I made to you all is that you have
01:52:57 --> 01:53:00 to pay attention to what these people are saying.
01:53:02 --> 01:53:08 New hotness may not be right at this particular time for your district or,
01:53:08 --> 01:53:16 you know, whether it's legislative or congressional or in your city or in your state.
01:53:16 --> 01:53:23 But if it is, support it. If it's not, don't support it, right?
01:53:24 --> 01:53:32 Go with who you think has the best interests of your community and your household.
01:53:33 --> 01:53:38 I'm careful about being too selfish about it because there are some folks that,
01:53:39 --> 01:53:42 you know, and I want you, well, let me put it this way.
01:53:42 --> 01:53:48 I want you to be egalitarian about it. I want you to be open-minded about it.
01:53:50 --> 01:53:54 If a white person is the best person to represent black folks,
01:53:54 --> 01:53:55 then vote for the white person.
01:53:55 --> 01:53:59 If a black person is the best person to represent white folks,
01:54:00 --> 01:54:03 then vote for the black person. That make sense?
01:54:03 --> 01:54:08 It's it's it goes back to the quote that I read, Jordan.
01:54:09 --> 01:54:13 You know, George Washington was not a big fan of the political party system.
01:54:14 --> 01:54:19 He felt that the best person, of course, back then it was only men,
01:54:19 --> 01:54:25 but the best person should be elected, regardless of what they run for.
01:54:26 --> 01:54:28 Shouldn't matter what political party they're a part of.
01:54:29 --> 01:54:36 I'm biased because I've been a Democratic Party activist all my life. So I root for my team.
01:54:37 --> 01:54:42 Most of y'all are not like that. You're not committed like I am.
01:54:43 --> 01:54:48 So you have that option to decide who's the best.
01:54:48 --> 01:54:54 If you think the Republican is best, and again, I'm biased because I don't see
01:54:54 --> 01:54:56 how you could think that, but we'll be fair.
01:54:56 --> 01:54:59 If you think the Republican is the best, you vote for a Republican.
01:54:59 --> 01:55:02 If you think the Democrat is the best, then you vote for that Democrat.
01:55:03 --> 01:55:07 If you think the Independent is the best, you vote for the Independent because
01:55:07 --> 01:55:12 in New York City, there's going to be about four independent options,
01:55:12 --> 01:55:17 including the incumbent mayor, right? And they're in that election coming up.
01:55:17 --> 01:55:23 So, I want y'all to be really diligent, whether you got an election this year
01:55:23 --> 01:55:28 or in 2026, while we still have the luxury of having elections.
01:55:29 --> 01:55:33 I want y'all to be really diligent about it. I want you to pay attention to
01:55:33 --> 01:55:39 these folks, because a lot of folks are getting by on the get-by.
01:55:40 --> 01:55:47 You know, well, you know, Bubba went to the right school, and he's a member
01:55:47 --> 01:55:52 of the right church, and, you know, he says some things that I like,
01:55:52 --> 01:55:53 so I'm going to vote for him.
01:55:54 --> 01:55:58 You know, look at the economic situations of Mississippi, Alabama,
01:55:59 --> 01:56:07 Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Georgia outside of Atlanta and see if that
01:56:07 --> 01:56:09 logic matches with what's going on.
01:56:10 --> 01:56:14 Even my good friends in West Virginia, you know, yeah, you'll vote for the guy
01:56:14 --> 01:56:18 that's supporting the coal mine, but he's going to cut your benefit, right?
01:56:21 --> 01:56:25 So pay attention to everything that these candidates are saying. Press them.
01:56:25 --> 01:56:31 What I see going on with these town halls now is great, but we shouldn't have to get angry to do that.
01:56:33 --> 01:56:38 Know, and everything was kind of smooth, I call a townhouse meeting, 10 people will show up.
01:56:38 --> 01:56:43 If something crazy was happening, the fire marshal had to come in and make sure
01:56:43 --> 01:56:46 that, you know, everything was cool, right?
01:56:46 --> 01:56:53 We shouldn't be just reactive all the time in our politics. We should be proactive.
01:56:53 --> 01:56:54 We should pay attention.
01:56:55 --> 01:56:59 If an elected official is showing up in your neighborhood, in your community,
01:56:59 --> 01:57:01 might need to make some time to go.
01:57:02 --> 01:57:09 If you can't, you can't. But if you can, make the effort because you voted for these people.
01:57:10 --> 01:57:13 Even if you voted for their opponent, you participate in an election.
01:57:13 --> 01:57:19 That person now is the leader, the chosen one, not in a biblical sense.
01:57:19 --> 01:57:22 Let's get that straight. But they were elected.
01:57:23 --> 01:57:30 So if they show up to be accountable, you need to show up to hold them accountable, right?
01:57:30 --> 01:57:34 Don't just wait till the potholes are too big on your street,
01:57:34 --> 01:57:40 or they're talking about closing the school, or, you know, taking away your
01:57:40 --> 01:57:41 rights. Don't wait for that.
01:57:42 --> 01:57:48 If you hold them accountable from day one, then they'll be hard-pressed to do
01:57:48 --> 01:57:51 anything that's against the interests of the people they represent.
01:57:52 --> 01:57:56 But if we just go on with our daily lives and act like, well,
01:57:56 --> 01:57:59 you know, we do trust them to handle that, so we're just going to let them handle
01:57:59 --> 01:58:03 it and don't have any input, then when they do something crazy, now we're upset.
01:58:04 --> 01:58:08 But if they don't feel that they're accountable to anybody, they're going to do what they want to do.
01:58:09 --> 01:58:13 Democrat, Republican, independent, dogcat, it doesn't matter.
01:58:13 --> 01:58:18 It's human nature. You wanted to get out of your parents' house so you could do your own thing.
01:58:19 --> 01:58:24 Well, if you don't hold elected officials accountable, they're going to do their own thing.
01:58:24 --> 01:58:26 You got to hold these people accountable.
01:58:27 --> 01:58:31 You can't deify them. You can't put them on a pedestal.
01:58:32 --> 01:58:36 You can't make them more than human. You got to hold them accountable.
01:58:37 --> 01:58:40 Yes, you voted for them because you've
01:58:40 --> 01:58:46 given them your trust to handle the government society business right.
01:58:47 --> 01:58:55 But doesn't mean that they should go unchecked. And so I think if we were more engaged,
01:58:56 --> 01:59:01 and even if you can't go, find out from somebody who went, hey,
01:59:02 --> 01:59:03 so what's going on with that? I heard they had a meeting.
01:59:04 --> 01:59:07 Most of y'all don't even, if y'all didn't go, y'all don't even ask the question.
01:59:08 --> 01:59:14 Find out. A lot of these meetings are online. They're on YouTube or whatever.
01:59:15 --> 01:59:20 You can go back and look at it. You know, you can stream it on your phone.
01:59:21 --> 01:59:29 I mean, there's plenty of opportunities for us to stay engaged and to pay attention
01:59:29 --> 01:59:30 to what these folks are doing.
01:59:31 --> 01:59:36 And I think it's even more incumbent upon us now to do that because,
01:59:36 --> 01:59:39 you know, just the day and age that we're living in, man, it's,
01:59:40 --> 01:59:44 we just have to do it. I know it sounds tedious.
01:59:44 --> 01:59:46 I know it sounds boring.
01:59:47 --> 01:59:52 But because we didn't do it, we're in the situation we're in now.
01:59:53 --> 01:59:57 Because we took things for granted, now things might be taken away.
01:59:57 --> 02:00:03 So I'm asking y'all to be diligent, pay attention to what's going on.
02:00:04 --> 02:00:09 Don't get caught up in the fights or whether we should have new leaders or old
02:00:09 --> 02:00:13 leaders or whatever the case may be. We just need American leaders.
02:00:13 --> 02:00:21 We just need people to give a damn about us and our rights and focus in,
02:00:21 --> 02:00:23 focus our energy on that.
02:00:24 --> 02:00:29 And once we give them that opportunity, hold them accountable.
02:00:30 --> 02:00:33 All right, guys. Thank you all for listening. Until next time.
02:00:34 --> 02:01:22 Music.
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