[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of a moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time. I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast. If you like what you're hearing, that need you to do a few things. First, I need subscribers.
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[00:01:01] because it is time to make this moment a movement. Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoy this episode as well. Program note. This episode was recorded prior to the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump.
[00:01:28] So I want to wish him a speedy recovery. I hope that the Republicans have a safe and productive convention in Milwaukee. And I want to emphasize to everyone listening. Political violence is not accepted. Music Hello. Welcome to the moment where Eric Flimming. I am your host, Eric Flimming.
[00:02:27] And today I have two guests that I think will, let's see, how do I want to say this. In lighten you. Yeah, that's a good word. That will enlighten you with their perspectives. They have both written books. And we're going to talk about their books.
[00:02:52] And hopefully, not only will you, after hearing these interviews by the books, but you will get something out of the discussions that we've had with my guests. That will be enlightening to you and hopeful even. So I look forward to sharing that with you right now.
[00:03:21] As we always do, it's time to kick off this program with a moment in news with Grace G. Thanks, Eric. President Biden asserted in an ABC News interview that he remains the candidate to beat Donald Trump in November's election,
[00:03:44] despite concerns over his debate performance and public speaking gaffes. A Wall Street Journal poll showed 86% of Democrats would vote for Biden against Trump, a drop from 93% in February. Donald Trump distanced himself from Project 2025. The Heritage Foundation's plan for a potential future Republican presidency.
[00:04:06] U.S. representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez introduced impeachment articles against Supreme Court justices, Clarence Thomas and Simula Lito. Tropical Storm Barrow caused significant destruction in Southeast Texas, including fatalities, flooding, and widespread power outages. Russia launched a deadly missile attack on a children's hospital and kev,
[00:04:28] killing numerous civilians and causing widespread devastation. President Biden renewed his vow to support Ukraine against Russia at the NATO summit in Washington, D.C. Britain's new Prime Minister, Keer Starrmer, will lead a parliament with unprecedented ethnic diversity and female representation after a decisive election victory.
[00:04:49] France faces political uncertainty after elections resulted in a hung parliament, complicating President Macron's ability to push through his agenda. The Kansas Supreme Court permanently blocked a law, banning the most common second-trime-master abortion procedure.
[00:05:05] The Wisconsin Supreme Court overturned a previous ruling, allowing voters to return absentee ballots through drop boxes. Former NRACFO Wilson Phillips agreed to attend your ban on managing New York non-profits as part of a corruption case settlement.
[00:05:22] And despite high fuel costs and hurricane threats, nearly 71 million Americans traveled during the 4th of July holiday. I am Grace G. and this has been a moment of news. All right, and thank you Grace for that moment of news. Now it is time for my first guest.
[00:05:52] And his name is Saqib. Saqib, I'm sorry. Saqib, Koreshi. Saqib Koreshi is a fellow at the London School of Economics and Political Science, where he received his PhD in international relations and epistemology. His work has been featured in the Financial Times, the Wall Street Journal, and Entrepreneur.
[00:06:17] Koreshi has produced two films and in 1996 the BBC One documentary All Dawa, the first television documentary about the Muslim community in any western country. He lives in Toronto and his latest book is Being Muslim Today, reclaiming the faith from Orthodoxy and Islamophobia.
[00:06:39] Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast. Dr. Saqib Koreshi. All right, it is a key Koreshi. How are you doing? First of all, how did I do okay on the name? Yeah, pretty close actually.
[00:07:12] Saqib Koreshi is going to be a wreck. Saqib, okay, Saqib Koreshi. All right, Dr. I appreciate you coming on, man. You've written this book and I want to get into the book. The reason why you wrote this book and the book is called Being Muslim Today,
[00:07:38] reclaiming the faith from Orthodoxy and Islamophobia. So what I normally do with guests is I give them a quote and let them respond to it. And your quote is, the system will collapse. If we refuse to buy what they are selling, their ideas, their version of history,
[00:08:07] their weapons, their notions of inevitability. Remember this, we be many and they be few. They need us more than we need them. Another world is not only possible, she is on her way on a quiet day. I can hear her breathing. What does that quote mean to you?
[00:08:28] More than anything else, I think it's the realization that the Muslim voice, which has been muffled for so long, which is not, which doesn't have an expression even in Muslim majority countries. Forget in non-Muslim majority countries, that voice is becoming more and more heard.
[00:08:55] The internet is a fantastic platform for that. And Muslims of America, of Canada, of the UK, France, other Western countries. Muslims of those countries are getting to find their voice. They are getting to push back against some of the narratives that I am posed upon them against them.
[00:09:21] And I'm happy to be part of the inflection point where we are finding our feet. And we are now beginning to make our case, and we are pushing back. And we are, you know, we're heard desperately heard, particularly by the events in Raza
[00:09:43] and the ongoing events over the last many generations in Palestine. But other events as well, just the discrimination against Muslim people and airports in the media, particularly in the Western media. So we're pushing back. And that to me is what that quote really means.
[00:10:01] Yeah, so I'm going to get into some of the kind of the events that's going on at impacts of community. But I want to kind of get into the book first.
[00:10:16] You start the book as far as the chapters part with a question that your teenage son asked you. Did you tell the audience what that question was? How you felt when he asked you that question. And how exactly did you answer the question?
[00:10:38] So the question that you asked me on a Saturday morning while I'm watching a game of soccer as you call it in the US was, Lappa, is Islam a violent religion.
[00:10:47] And my instant reaction, my gut reaction, my instinctive reaction was, stop bothering me with stupid questions I'm watching again before. That was, I didn't say it, but I can tell you that's how what I felt.
[00:11:00] And I began and I took the way from him and I turned back to look at him and I could see he was being dead serious. And there was this kind of shock and horror that I felt. I dragged myself away from the TV screen.
[00:11:12] I went to my own library to see if there's any material that I could give to him that could navigate his question. And I realized there wasn't because everything I had was generally far too academic. Too difficult, cumbersome for a 15 year old to get their head round.
[00:11:31] So then I went to Amazon.com because my son's a Christopher as reader he liked reading. So I went to Amazon and I went to a book website to look for a book that was accessible but rigorous. Didn't have propaganda to it.
[00:11:46] It was like relied on the latest academic research but it was easy to read. That found nothing and that was my moment of kind of saying, hammering it. We've got a real problem there because everything out there is either a same kind of self stuff.
[00:12:05] Or it's trying to push a very very kind of academic approach.
[00:12:13] Which is fine for its scholarship community or PhDs and M. Phil and professors but it's not great for the vast majority of people who don't have that kind of qualification and don't really have the time to go around pursuing you either.
[00:12:30] And so that does begun my journey for this book. So in the introduction to the book, you said that prejudice against black people gets challenged by global campaigns. Against Jews it invites accusations to anti-Semitism. Pregnities against Muslims and contrasts is acceptable at the dinner table.
[00:12:55] Why do you think that is? Because when you were explaining the quote, you were saying that this is a time for people in the Muslim community to really express their voice. Do you not feel, well I ask you why do you think that is.
[00:13:15] But the kind of puts on nuance in it for me. Do you think that it is starting to change or it's still pretty status quo that other people's concerns seem to be,
[00:13:34] or other attacks on people seem to be responded to better than what happens to the Muslim community? I think it's still fair game to discriminate against Muslims in political and social universes.
[00:13:53] So politicians openly do it and they are assisted by media which is a help vent on making the relationship between Islam and the people. And Muslims on the one hand and violence and bigotry on the other hand. So that's ongoing.
[00:14:12] I think what's changing now is that there are increasing number of American born Muslims, British born Muslims, Canadian born Muslims who deeply identify with their country.
[00:14:27] And also identify with their religious identity and their appetite to sit there, essentially being told a bunch of nonsense about their faith and their. What it means is quite limited. I don't really have my patience for these politics.
[00:14:48] I remember having a conversation with the taxi driver and the US quite recently who asked me, is it not incumbent on all Muslims to convert all non-Muslims or kill them?
[00:14:58] And I mean you know, the public last time he was going to ask that kind of question in his life. I mean not that I was difficult or hard but I kind of outlined the entire universe and he was pretty shocked.
[00:15:10] Whereas I think 20-30 years ago they might well have been a bit more reluctant amongst American or British or Canadian born Muslim, the Western born Muslims to kind of assert themselves. I think that's changing and you've got popular figures out there like made the Huston for instance,
[00:15:25] Baroness Warsie in the UK just a few examples people who are speaking their mind and I think that's changing but I still you know, there's no doubt in my mind that discrimination against Muslims is very, very present and part of that is the political agenda for it.
[00:15:43] Because if you discriminate against Muslim populations then you're able to exercise more control over certain parts of the world by kind of saying, well ignore the Muslim voice there, ignore the Muslim voice in our country, you know, that's just continuing doing what we're doing.
[00:16:03] So what is it like? Well first of all, what is Islam to you? What does the religion mean to you? And what is it like being a Muslim or practitioner of the religion in Western culture?
[00:16:21] So Islam to me is the belief in one God and only one God and the worship of that one God and the God,
[00:16:30] that God asking of us to leave good lives and avoid bad things and then be individually accountable after we pass away on the day of judgment and being rewarded with heaven or hell.
[00:16:47] That's very, very simple. The caveat actually now is that there's absolutely no forced conversion number one number two to absolutely no signs of the forced conversion number two that are very,
[00:17:00] very strong anti-violence streak to Islam at least the one that I have understood so there's that now in answer to your question what's it like to be a Muslim today title of the book.
[00:17:15] Tough work. It is very, very tough work. You have to continuously explain yourself every single time a Muslim out there in the world and they're about you know a couple of billion every single time they do something nefarious the entire two billion community get blamed for it because they're because that person's religious identity is brought to the heart especially if it's in the United States like a Muslim who kills five people go on a nutcase job,
[00:17:43] so his religious identity will be seized very quickly where the T. was Jewish or he was Christian or he didn't do or atheist none of that would matter which is ironic because the greatest genocide in history of our species do not have Muslim fingerprints to them.
[00:18:01] Homocycle capital rates and Muslim majority countries are low than they are in non-Muslim majority countries, and yet every single time there is a Muslim who's at the helm of some violent act but they're not in the same position as the Muslim people.
[00:18:13] Particularly in the United States but also in Canada and in the UK you'll see again and again and again and again religious identity is brought to the fore as relevant or as an explanation and for that reason we get hammered it and we go through this cycle again and again and again and
[00:18:29] we are pushing back I think the Muslim community of the West pushing back and the not 80 in the city's community we have you know to these countries we've been in the UK for centuries we've been in the US for centuries and you know pushing back and I think it's a really healthy thing.
[00:18:51] Yeah so that leads me to this question talk of in the book you have a picture of the statue of King Richard the Lionheart that stands in front of parliament. Talk about the significance of that statue as far as you interpret it.
[00:19:14] So King Richard the King of England who really couldn't speak very much English as it happens he was friends speaking he kills 3,000 civilians in a day in 1187 and yet there's a statue of him erected in front of the house of commons in front of the parliament building a massive statue.
[00:19:38] been lord and he kills 3,000 people in on the attacks in 911 and yet the treatment between the two the treatment on the two you know it's profoundly different. One person is celebrated for killing 3,000 innocent people in a day and another person is vilified.
[00:20:00] And what is the major difference here is the religious identity of the perpetrator. Fundamentally if you are Christian and you kill 3,000 innocent people okay you could be in line for a wonderful statue in front of the British parliament.
[00:20:20] If you're religious identity is Muslim well not only are we going to vilify you rightly so as it happened I think.
[00:20:26] So we're going to be vilified the billion plus Muslim that the time for a life one and a half billion other Muslims and we're going to subject to them.
[00:20:34] Tubject them to all sorts of security checks and bank checks and airport checks and we're going to vilify the entire 155 million Muslim people and I find that you know obviously disturbing and nauseous.
[00:20:49] But I think so many other people and it's not just myself it's a lot of people fortunately are able to raise their voice and say I'm sorry but you know we are as human.
[00:21:01] Each and every other person a respective of gender or ethnicity or religious identity or height or skin color or profession you know we're fundamentally all human beings and our religious identity.
[00:21:15] Doesn't compromise that and what's more important what's more important is that if you begin to kind of probe under the bonnet you'll see this. According the kettle of black so frequently that it's kind of hard to get your head round.
[00:21:32] Yeah and so and the other thing I use the terms of variance but the majority of not all of the victims of that mass girl that King Richard inflicted were of the Muslim community was like is that not what I read.
[00:21:50] There are Muslims and Jews because this was part of the Crusades and so Jewish people and other Muslim people have traditionally found a safe haven in. Muslim countries and that's been very much the case since the beginning of the religion.
[00:22:07] I'm not saying that Muslims have been always perfect and always peace loving but generally speaking over the last 1400 years this is a religious identity which is embraced pluralism and the people who died at the hands of Richard that what were.
[00:22:26] Well mostly Muslims and you had a small minority of Jewish people as well. Yeah and so that kind of adds to the irony you're talking about where as you say somebody.
[00:22:40] Christian is given this honor and this place of nobility and history whereas like you said if somebody from the Muslim community did it it's like, you know they're the most evil person. And anybody associated with that person is going to be vilified.
[00:23:03] Yes, which leads to this question you have two chapters in the book dedicated to the competition to the fine Islam. Why did you feel that was important to dedicate that much time in discussing that?
[00:23:21] Because there is huge pressure on Muslims from stay called from from different parts of the universe. Who pushed them into certain interpretations of Islam and this is really my problem with both orthodoxy and Islamophobia.
[00:23:43] The orthodox community has a particular narrative, a particular story, a particular understanding of the past which it imposes and pushes at you.
[00:23:53] And if you don't agree to it then Islamic orthodoxy turnaround 30 is as well, you know what all the scholars in the history of the religion have all agreed this point that you are debating against.
[00:24:04] And so they try that and that fails well it should fail but unfortunately it actually succeeds because most people don't realize that all of the scholars in history of Islam have agreed on deadly score.
[00:24:18] And that's the first argument and the second argument is well if you continue thinking what you are thinking that's really dangerous, you know so you will be very careful now if you are to stop because you've been very dangerous here.
[00:24:30] And so you have that tool with orthodoxy deploys in order to tell Muslims what to believe what the religion is about and what they can and cannot do.
[00:24:39] And at the same time you've got this panofobic community which is held bent on telling Muslims, they are violent lot, you know a bit wacko, you discriminate again from until the cows come home, okay.
[00:24:51] They're having a weird about it and so you've got these two communities out there and I think it's important for individuals on Muslim people to have the freedom to breathe like I'm not saying that you know they've got to reject each and every strand of what's being called to them.
[00:25:08] But they need to have that freedom to think and breathe and engage material without fear. And we don't have that space, we simply don't have that space.
[00:25:17] As of this book is in some measure a tool to let Muslims people breathe their religion like I actually have a serious discussion around what an earth is this about.
[00:25:31] What do we know about this religion? How do we know it with what level of certainty? What's the evidence that we have, with respect to this? How does the religion change? All of that is new to most Muslim people. It's not new to scholarship.
[00:25:47] Scholarship has got these number of good answers, robust answers. But that material doesn't circulate and this is really another kind of important part of this book which is to help the transition of highly academic, dense, difficult, monosolabic, technical terms into an accessible easy way.
[00:26:08] I'm hoping that when you read it, you didn't find it to be in the boring exercise which ought to be shifted out to a bunch of PhD students. And so yeah and so it's meant to be something that you can enjoy reading.
[00:26:23] So I take it that was the goal of the book was to kind of in a nine, as you say, academic way, break down what the faith is. Was your target audience both the Muslim community and the non-Muslim community or is this supposed to be for people like me that don't practice to be legit?
[00:26:50] I think this is a book for people who want an absolutely no nonsense, easy to read inside an explanation of what this faith is. Where did it come from? How has it changed and how do we know what we think we know about it?
[00:27:13] So this is really, I would argue this is a book ideal for somebody who is curious about Islam and has some degree of independence of mind. They actually value their independence of mind. They don't want to be filled with a pack of cookies and they don't want to labor in their reading.
[00:27:36] Yeah, so I'm gonna address that in another question but have you gotten any feedback from people in the Muslim community on the book and how are they reacting to it?
[00:27:53] So I've had two polls and I kind of expected the polls. Poll one is, thank you so much for writing a book that has shifted a huge burden of my shoulders. So I've had that message quite a few times that I have essentially made life a whole lot easier for a bunch of people and the second core message has been around.
[00:28:18] What you are doing is heresy, you're challenging centuries of tradition and so on and so forth. And it's, you know, is wrong and what you're doing should be stopped type of stuff. And you know, I mean, I can't answer for each person's individual journey but I will say that this book has been in the making for more than three decades.
[00:28:46] And I've been thinking in the baiting learning, we learning, unlearning, being challenged, being ridiculed. You know about my understanding of Muslims in Islam for a long time and.
[00:29:01] I'd like to hope that I poured out my heart and soul to this to produce something which you know obviously isn't going to be perfect but it's a damn good effort to make sense of this faith and where it's come from.
[00:29:15] So, Sunni and Shia. When you talk about Islam, you're talking about in a general sense to get people to basic concepts in the history and certain practices of the faith but just like in the Christian church, there's the Catholic and Protestant division.
[00:29:39] I understand at least there's the Sunni and the Shia does any criticism that you might get come from one particular group or the other or is it just kind of a universal response to your universal explanation of the thing.
[00:30:03] So, Sunni's outnumbered Shia by about seven to one in the world. My book has focused more on Sunniism. Notwithstanding that there's an awful lot of the book which has very significant implications also for Shiaism.
[00:30:25] And so, today I have not detected any nuance in the feedback between members of the two sects. I have not been sensitive to it perhaps but I certainly haven't detected it but I would imagine Frank is being the criticisms that I make up orthodoxy Anisama for a year.
[00:30:50] I think it will resonate with both sects. I can't see obvious leaning in one way or the other. I think that's important to bring up, like I said, I am not a scholar in Islam or Christianity for that matter.
[00:31:18] Even though I practice Christianity but I think people need to understand it because that's part of the part of when people get these soundbites and the news.
[00:31:31] It depends in the United States whether you get it from Fox or whether you get it from CNN or MSNBC. How they'll try to break down the different sex of the faith and try to correlate it's one more violent than the other and all that kind of stuff.
[00:31:51] That's why I was just kind of curious as far as how people in the faith and how they're divided and how they're receiving it. So, I'm glad that you brought up the numbers that basically dissonance outnumber that she is seven to one.
[00:32:09] That helps out a lot. Why do you think when we discuss religion, right? That we have these polemic overtones. When I came at you as a Christian, I'm not saying me per se, but just an example.
[00:32:33] I would comment you in a polemic sense that my faith is better than yours. And then it might be somebody, you know, you or somebody else would come back to me and say no Islam is better and yet I added this to that other.
[00:32:49] Like it's a political debate. Why do you think we are as human beings?
[00:32:54] We do that. I think one of the unfortunate downsides of any identity is that if you buy to deeply into it, you end up losing sight of the most important identity which is out of being human.
[00:33:15] And institutionalized religion, whether it's Christianity or Islam or Hinduism or whatever else.
[00:33:22] institutionalized religion with its own hierarchy of clerics or scholars and texts and methods. That is often a, you know, it's a wonderful place to remind everybody of the differences between us and them, which is a shame because that really is not what being a better person.
[00:33:52] The months and I think there is a real problem here that institutionalized religion has, which is that far too much of the emphasis implicitly perhaps and subconsciously perhaps is around the distinction between us and them.
[00:34:07] And I think that's a very important thing to recognize in that fundamentally we're all human beings. Now, I'm not saying religious identity is the only identity that's guilty or that you do have, you know, like for instance ethnicity. People are distinct and superior.
[00:34:26] So you do have that as well, you know, so it's not the only media through which this discrimination is carried but it's a very powerful one.
[00:34:35] And I think it's quite unfortunate to the point that you made about, you know, the counter response that I might take, which is Islam is a superior religion if I would adopt that position.
[00:34:47] I will say that I find it very interesting because the Quran carries a very simple message about this, which is that it's not my job or anybody's job to go around telling people what they shouldn't believe.
[00:35:01] Like, this is a point that's made again and again it's, I have a, if I have a duty of religious duty is to just share people with people, this is what the religion is about take it or leave it and the story, you know.
[00:35:12] And if the only religion that I'm aware of that encourages religious pluralism, so the Jews and the Christians of the Muslim of the 7th century were all wearing courage to compete for God's favor.
[00:35:26] We just fantastic because like, hey, you guys, why don't you compete with the other religions just to be good. That is to me fantastic. Like, that is exactly what it should be about. And that's 7th century Arabia for you.
[00:35:40] There's compete with Jewish people and Christian people so that we are better. We do better things, you know, which is fantastic. And I think, you know, there is an awful lot that institutionalized religion can be blamed for, you know, and from the Muslim world, I point a lot of the things that are, it's only both adults, so you say, guys, you know, you're kind of.
[00:36:04] You kind of drawing from very sharp lines between people who have our religious identity versus those who have another religious identity and in doing so crushing the thing that's really important and the stuff that's really the source of our intrinsic value. We have value not because we are black or Jewish or gay or rich, we have value because we're humans with human beings. That is our source of value.
[00:36:30] Yeah, real quick before we close out because I said I was going to double back to it. How do we, how does events like 9-11 and Israeli Hamas conflict impacted lives of Muslims in places like the United States, Canada and the UK?
[00:36:53] I mean, what is, you know, we talked a little bit about this, Lafant Fabian, all that. But what is the immediate impact? It's like, well, let me tell you this real quick story. So I was on a board that was the interface board and we actually had a meeting scheduled the day 9-11 happened.
[00:37:17] And when we got to the meeting, the Imam for this was in Jackson, Mississippi. The Imam had two cell phones and he was going back and forth, back and forth on the cell phones trying to respond.
[00:37:31] The rest of us are kind of watching on the TV and kind of discussing it. And we couldn't even engage with him because he was constantly out of phone and then he just excuse himself from the meeting.
[00:37:41] So the way I looked at what he was going through was an incredible amount of stress, an incredible amount of distress. You know about what happened but also from getting feedback from people in his community.
[00:38:00] Is that kind of the general sense as far as impact that happens in a Muslim community when stuff like that happened? Yes. So we get, particularly in the United States, all Muslims were getting demonized by certain parts of society who have their own political agendas.
[00:38:28] So we will get demonized again and again and again when something happens on the world day, which had the Muslim identity to it. So that in 2011, in a very, very tough way, repeatedly being randomly set aside at Air Force for a security check.
[00:38:50] And the randomness of it was so bovine that you didn't need to be out but Einstein to see that this was not random.
[00:38:57] You know, you kind of took the profile of that was the end of it. And you see it in all sorts of shapes and guises from law enforcement to the banking system to job applications.
[00:39:08] And we just get hammered again and again which is I think it's so important that American Muslims and Muslims of other Western countries.
[00:39:16] It got to the baton and say, look, this is just wrong. This is ridiculous. You know, you just can't keep doing this and you know, to circus and push back.
[00:39:27] And it's a very difficult place to being a Muslim today like one of my close friends is a leading lawyer in downtown Toronto.
[00:39:33] And then you made the point and me very bluntly said, you know, being a Muslim today is really tough work. You be always on the defensive.
[00:39:41] You know, yet, yet what's interesting is that you speak to any law enforcement agency in the United States and they'll tell you that the American Muslims have a lower homicide capater grade than do non American Muslims.
[00:39:57] I mean, that's quite an interesting maybe. But it's like, you know, the fact that everything would get never seemed to matter. Richard the third still has his statue up until 3,000 people in the same people in the day that it's in the matter is put his statue up.
[00:40:16] Yeah, I feel on that because you know, we had, we've got ongoing struggles in the United States as far as dealing with these Confederate monuments. And being located in the South, that's a real, real issue that we've had to deal with for a number of years.
[00:40:37] As people become more enlightened, those monuments and all those things get questioned. I think that's healthy.
[00:40:47] And so this gets to my favorite part of the podcast where the guest gets to pluck things. So let me just say your book, you accomplish what you wanted to accomplish as far as I was concerned.
[00:41:02] Your book is a very easy read and but it's very detailed. You can see the research that was put in there.
[00:41:11] And if people want to have a better understanding of something that you see on the news or here on the news, but and it's been depicted one way or the other.
[00:41:23] This would be a good, good primer I guess for like a better term to get an understanding. So tell people how folks can get the book being Muslim today, reclaiming the faith from orthodoxy in Islamophobia.
[00:41:41] That book is available across book stores nationwide. So all the online regulars as well as the independence will be able to source the book for you. And it's available on electronic format as well as physical format as well.
[00:41:59] All right, so people want to talk directly to you like I am, how can people get in touch with you get you to show up at their university or whatever.
[00:42:10] So I have a website and the website has my contact details and my website is sakebcoreshee.com, which is my person last name.
[00:42:18] So unusual spellings you might have to first search for being Muslim today and from there take it forward but it's sakebcoreshee.com and my contacts are there so if anybody wanted to ping me they can do it from there.
[00:42:34] Well Dr. sakebcoreshee, thank you for coming on the podcast. I am extremely honored that you took the time out to talk about this book.
[00:42:48] I'm really honored that you wrote a book and I'm glad that you followed through on all those thoughts that you've been dealing with for the last 30 years.
[00:42:58] To go ahead and do it and I'm really glad that you signed as to question because that obviously provoked you to go ahead and and do what you need to do. So again, just thank you for doing that and being on the show.
[00:43:14] That's so kind of you Eric thank you so much. Alright guys and we're going to catch all on the other side. Hello, this is Eric Flaming, host of Moment with Eric Flaming and I need your help.
[00:43:36] We have an opportunity to cover the Democratic National Convention in Chicago this August but I need to raise some money. So I need you to go to gofundme.com slash help a moment with Eric Flaming broadcast from DNC 2024.
[00:43:51] That's gofundme.com help a moment with Eric Flaming broadcast from DNC 2024. Thank you so much. Alright and we are back and so now it is time for my next guest. His name is Timothy Bolt.
[00:44:20] Timothy Bolt was born in the mountains of British Columbia, Canada, the Dutch immigrants roll off and an EK. He grew up skiing, camping, reading, thousands of novels and love with all the humanities and most of the sciences. After high school he moved to Vancouver for college.
[00:44:40] He spent a year in France of taking a master's and computer science. Then returned for a master's and artificial intelligence research at the University of British Columbia.
[00:44:50] He did industrial AI work at Bell Northern Research in Ottawa for three years before we returning to British Columbia yet again to work at McDonald debtwiler associates. In systems engineering around the world.
[00:45:05] After 27 years of Vancouver visiting China is real most of the United States and pockets of the Middle East in Europe he moved to Milwaukee. Timothy works at large companies managing global business transformations while much of his writing is either classified or proprietary.
[00:45:25] He has published articles and books in various genres science fiction politics, AI leadership and romance. And we are going to talk about his book platform of hope ideas both conservatives and liberals can love.
[00:45:44] Ladies and gentlemen it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast Timothy Bolt. Alright Timothy Bolt. How you doing so you doing good? Excellent. I don't like to meet you Eric. What for?
[00:46:14] Yeah well I was intrigued. I saw a book called Platform of Hope ideas are both conservatives and liberals can love. And I said this ought to be interesting in this time. How does individual decided to do that?
[00:46:37] So I was really, really thrilled that you accept my invitation to come on. So what I like to do to kind of get things started is the throw quote at the guess.
[00:46:49] So this is your quote. I'm trying to find solutions that don't get labeled liberal or conservative and can simply stand as American.
[00:47:00] I'm not naively saying there are no serious differences in American opinion, but I am saying there's room for common ground. What does that quote mean to you? Clearly our politics is increasingly polarized. People are angry at each other.
[00:47:20] There's so much hatred and extremists on both parties in America are putting forward policies that they say are the answer to the problems that clearly the other side.
[00:47:33] And so there is this impression in America that we can't find common ground that it's almost impossible to pass a lot of people on both sides of respect.
[00:47:46] And I say that's an impression because if you dig and if you try, I find that for most of the issues that we face, there is a chance to find By partisan legislation things that the politicians and certainly Americans as a whole can agree to as a majority.
[00:48:11] For almost any issue that we've had, now I had real challenge with some of the issues I addressed in the book trying to find something that I really believed both sides could like. And of course the extremists on either side will never agree with each other on anything.
[00:48:27] I worked on the book and I continued to try to refine it and respond to feedback.
[00:48:33] More I believe that on most of our issues it is possible. And I think the main evidence of that is if you look at the facts every year there are on the order of 20 major bills that are signed with support from both sides.
[00:48:48] They don't get as much press as all the disagreement because bad news makes more interesting news. And you know during Biden administration with a very hostile Republican house still there are important pieces of legislation that did get really including with support from both sides.
[00:49:08] So I just think it boops us at any politicians should be trying to reach across the island and do bipartisan set. And I think voters should reward politicians that makes up happen as opposed to the extremists. Yeah.
[00:49:25] So Joseph Jovare said that the aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory but progress. Would you say that is the general premise of your book? That's a brilliant quotation. I want to capture that and include it in my next version. I like that. Okay. Yes.
[00:49:48] Yeah. So what motivated you to write this book? Why did you feel that at this time that you decided, okay, my voice needs to be heard on this particular subject? So I've always been interested in politics and I moved to the US from Canada about 10 years ago.
[00:50:20] And it was eye opening. I traveled in the US before but coming here first with a green card and as of a couple months ago as a citizen.
[00:50:29] I've been continually assaulted by the differences between American and Canadian politics. I used to think it was kind of similar but the polarization just got to me and bothered me over the years.
[00:50:44] And the book was sparked in the run up to the last election where I felt, you know, with all the election ads and the debates that people were talking past each other and the level of anger was Disconcerting to me.
[00:51:00] And so it was my thought that to the extent that I could by publishing something influenced that election, I would get the book out before the election as it did at least have a chance of affecting things and pushing for more noble dialogue.
[00:51:21] And encouraging voters to vote for people that would, as you said, make progress as opposed to victory.
[00:51:28] So what fascinated you about American politics? Because you said in the book that you kind of blame your interest in politics in a sense on your Dutch heritage that there's no argument at Dutch person, I'm paraphrasing but there's no argument at Dutch person wouldn't when they're interjecting.
[00:51:50] But why American politics? What fascinates you about how we do things here?
[00:51:58] I love some of the principles of American policy, or the principle of freedom, the principle of you know, give people the freedom to do what they want and you'll get a successful society as opposed to controlling them.
[00:52:14] The principles of freedom of speech that the country was founded on for example. It gets us into trouble, in a sense almost too much freedom. You know like the Supreme Court recently has been basically saying anybody is free to have any gut.
[00:52:32] And that's a level of freedom that outside United States, most countries see as shocking or too much. But it's really interesting to see what are the limits on freedom that a government should or might put in.
[00:52:54] What also, what's fun, fascinates you know the Americans are so good at so many things, you know we're with the best in the world and a lot of stuff. And so bad at other things, you know the dichotomy, the range of experience that we have.
[00:53:11] You know we're one of the richest countries in the world but we still have poverty and kids that can't get educated. I mean that that just seen as crazy by Europeans.
[00:53:22] And yet we have very incredibly wealthy because we give companies the freedom to grow and to try things. So yeah it's that weird mix that fascinates you. Yeah and I definitely understand that because here the key word in that answer was dichotomy, right?
[00:53:47] And as an African-American and we'll get into that because you addressed that in the book. But you know being an African-American is always, I've always said it was a dichotomy because as an American citizen, you have love for this country, you root for this country in anything.
[00:54:09] You want to see this country succeed but then at the same time there are some issues that as an African-American that I have to deal with because of this country.
[00:54:20] And historically the wealth that this country was built on the backs of my ancestors and I and several others are not getting the full benefit or we think we're not getting the full benefit of it.
[00:54:35] So yeah dichotomy is a very, very important word in part of the American experience. So let me let's address some of the suggestions you make in the book.
[00:54:50] By the way you're not running for president United States usually people who run for president United States rights these kind of books. I want to make it clear, there's the bolts not going to be on the ballot.
[00:55:03] But but he took it upon himself to address some issues so we're going to start out with some easy issues. I say easy. Thank you. And then work our way up to some of the controversial ones and time allows.
[00:55:20] On the issue of paper currency for example, you said you say eliminated all together. How will eliminating paper currency or you put it in the book cash? How will that help American society?
[00:55:38] This is a little bit of a personal hobby or some I and I'm not sure it's one of the biggest issues. I tackle much big issues in the book. However cash makes theft easier.
[00:55:57] You know you might mug somebody to get their cash if you know they don't have any. It's tougher. A lot of crime has to deal with cash. You can see it on cop shows all the time, but you know, suitcase is $100 bills.
[00:56:14] I'm not saying cash is a little financial crime is eliminated. They'll find other ways. But I think a cashless society is allows for some crime reduction. Yeah, and you made the you were using as an example in that particular chapter.
[00:56:39] You were talking about how India which is one of the biggest countries in the world is a lot more advanced than we are as far as. Having a, a paperless or cashless society as far as economics go.
[00:56:56] And so you think that the United States being the country that it is could function and probably exceed what India has done as far as making it more standard practice not to use paper money. Right. Okay.
[00:57:20] On the issue of daylight savings time, you suggest that we stopped at practice to lower business cost and create less suffering for people. Kind of explain that. I know there's a surge of traffic accidents with every switch of time twice a year.
[00:57:48] The day it was invented at a time when energy costs to keep streets lit was a big deal that that's peanuts now. You know, every time you lose an hour, it's a bit of stress. You have to get up an hour earlier every Monday at that Monday.
[00:58:07] So again, it's not one of the biggest issues of our time. But it's common annoyance and one of the annoying things is that the vast majority of Americans want to get rid of it like it's a survey after survey. It's bipartisan.
[00:58:23] You know, or willing and that there are doing of other details and it just falls off the legislative radar every time. You know, we got close in the last legislative session. It's easy to say there are bigger fish to fry in Congress.
[00:58:38] So you know, it doesn't have to be a priority. But I think it would be an easy win if for, you know, five or six years on the issue at some point to put it to that.
[00:58:49] Yeah, and you know, growing up in Illinois, it was kind of, my mom was from Indianapolis, Indiana. So it was a big deal locally when Indiana said, you know what, we're not doing this. We're not going back and forth.
[00:59:07] It's just, you know, we already have a state with two different time zones as it is. And so they just, they just said, now we're, we're not going to do that.
[00:59:18] And in historical fact, I don't know if you're aware that the only reason why Indiana falls into the two times own region is because it's a very important thing. It's because of Notre Dame football. Oh, really, I did not know that.
[00:59:31] They wanted Notre Dame football to be at the same time zone as the New York press. So, you know, they would, they would update those games because the West Coast teams always get, you know,
[00:59:44] it's hard for their kids to get recognized, you know, for awards and get the media attention. At that time, all the media attention was in New York City. So it was like they had, you know, even though Chicago was right there.
[00:59:58] It was still an hour later than New York. And so they, they wanted to get Notre Dame football on the eastern time slot. And so that's why the states got that little curve. Followed to the eastern time zone. All right, now let's get into some media issues.
[01:00:20] On abortion, you make the case that life starts at as it ends with brain activity. Why is that important in the abortion discussion for you? Thanks for tackling the tough one. Yeah, this is the toughest day to end book.
[01:00:40] I just a quick story that had a colleague who hurt, I was an author and immediately went out and bought a couple of my books. And I heard later, she doesn't talk to me anymore.
[01:00:52] She just stopped at the abortion chapter and threw the book down and just didn't pick it up again. She's a vote-devoted pro-life er who thinks, you know, life starts at conception and you should protect the baby from that moment onward.
[01:01:09] So you're not going to reach some people regardless of what you try. But in the spirit of trying to find something that all Americans, the majority of Americans can support.
[01:01:25] The majority of Americans believe that abortion should be available as a women's choice in the first trimester and that it should get tougher after that. It's a fuzzy thing. Most Americans don't support abortion at nine months and they're very rare anyway, and they're hardly ever happened.
[01:01:48] Even where it's allowed. But that's kind of the majority of you. It just struck me when I was looking for the solution that we have pretty clear legal definitions. There's not a lot of controversy about the end of life.
[01:02:04] There have been some cases where hard-seeding but the brain stops and some extremists want to keep that heart beating even though there's no brain left. But the Supreme Court made its rulings and decided that brain death was the end of life.
[01:02:21] It seems symmetrical and kind of clean to say, hey, if there's no brain at the very beginning then it's not really a human being soul. It's hard to me. It's hard to imagine a soul that's worth preserving.
[01:02:39] If there's no brain, if there's no mind and it just happens to be that the brain turns on at 13 weeks. Right after the first trimester. So that, you know, some people call it a baby at two weeks when it's a bunch of cells.
[01:02:58] Right, but I can respect and understand. I think a majority of Americans would acknowledge that there is a human life. If there's a brain that has brain ways up that baby that fetus is starting to think.
[01:03:15] So I think that might be a reasonable time to put a cut off. To say, okay, after that point, you know, maybe it's there are two lives.
[01:03:25] And there's the baby type on the mother's life and you might have horrible situations where you have to weigh one against the other. But at least it's, you know, worth having a discussion of one life versus the other.
[01:03:37] Before 13 weeks in my view, I think it's reasonable to say there is no human soul worth protecting. So it's partly trying to find a compromise and partly a matter of principle.
[01:03:52] And, you know, I admit in my political career that I've wavered on the issue because when I first got started as an activist, I was pro choice all the way.
[01:04:09] I would give speeches and say all they are as profites and they, you know, they don't care about the life once the child is born, especially those of color, right?
[01:04:20] And when I became a father, I got a little more because I went through that process with my wife at the time.
[01:04:33] And to actually be there when my child was born, you know, it kind of, I did like most people when you get older, you get a little more conservative about it. But I wasn't to the point where I didn't think a woman had a right to choose.
[01:04:51] But I did, in my political position, try to stick to the letter, Roe V Wade. So any bill that came up that was like, well, you know, the government's going to spend X amount of dollars. I voted against that.
[01:05:07] And my dichotomy on that issue was so weird that one year I got an award for an pro life folks and from the ACLU. So, you know, it's a tough issue.
[01:05:20] I say that as a tough issue and now with now the federal protection Roe V Wade, I'm like, here we go with this crazy mess. Having served as a state legislator and being around the extremists, you know, the Roe V Wade at least was the cushion.
[01:05:40] And now that that's been eliminated and you allow the states to do stuff, you know what we're finding is that it's tougher for people.
[01:05:50] And I noticed that you deliberately put that, I don't know what draft you sent your friend but in the final copy you made that the last chapter because you said it's a tough issue and it is.
[01:06:02] But I appreciate how you, you were able to well, you made an effort to create a compromised point. And I think most people would fall in line with that. But let's go on. On voting rights, you support a universal ID system and an independent agency to handle redistricting.
[01:06:32] Why is that important for election integrity? So it's two separate issues. The second one on an independent agency. I know that probably that requires constitutional amendments and that's really hard to get to but.
[01:06:52] It shocks me that there's Jeremy in this country that that right, you know, the represented boundaries are twisted by both parties. And most recently primarily by the Republicans, to basically get more vote or more. House seats for the party that gets to do it.
[01:07:17] That seems crazy outside to non-Americans. Canada has an independent elections agency. It's kind of like the food and drug administration in the US. It's not political. It's elections Canada. We decide the boundaries of every right there is no jury manager.
[01:07:36] There is no this party is better off here than this party because of how the boundaries were set. Yeah, that's really hard to change. Sure, the vast majority of my kids would rather have a fair system. That one's really hard to implement because it's written into the constitution.
[01:07:57] How we organize our election boundaries. But it would just be better all-round less corrupt. The ID system is politically challenging and I expect progressives and Democrats would push back on more idea requirements of the post-aless.
[01:08:22] There are conservatives who genuinely believe that there are fraudulent votes cast by undocumented immigrants and maybe multiple voting. You know, the facts are that there isn't, but there is certainly a lot of conservatives who believe sincerely that there are fraudulent vote.
[01:08:48] And would help with other things like being able to distribute eight checks in like was done during the pandemic, you know, for those checks didn't reach people because we don't know who they are. We don't have ID.
[01:09:00] If you first do like India did and make sure everybody in the country has ID, but every person has ID that identifies that they are indeed an American. And then make that idea a requirement to vote. That should satisfy both.
[01:09:17] If one it'll help get the vote out, you know, it'll allow, hey, you need that ID to vote. Both parties should be perfectly comfortable with online voting, ballot boxes, whatever it takes to get the vote out.
[01:09:34] You know, I know you kind of think well, I'm trying to throw out some ID, but you're not that far off as far as where we are.
[01:09:48] First thing I want to address is the fact that you don't have to do anything with the Constitution, as far as dealing with the redistricting because all the constitution basically says is that it's an equal proportion right as far as.
[01:10:06] You know, it all all the constitution does is set the number so if there's going to be 435 representatives divide that.
[01:10:16] Yeah, see the state government has to do it but the state government is not constitutional as far as I mean they could do it if they decide they want to put that on a ballot for an amendment.
[01:10:27] They can but but really to stay legislature all 50 state legislatures can just say yeah, because some states have already done that. I think Michigan is one one of you know what I know there's one key battleground state that that does that and I think California does it.
[01:10:46] I've got to go back and check but there are some states that have independent commissions already and you know it is what it is. But what was happening is that in some of those states if the conservatives took over they were trying to get rid of that.
[01:11:06] And so that that's been the battle with that as far as the ID goes you know our biggest argument as far as African Americans was that it was considered a poll tax because there were a lot of people that didn't drive or were elderly and they didn't have a license at least an updated one.
[01:11:25] And so we felt well these people got to pay whatever the fee is just so they could go vote. So Mississippi.
[01:11:36] When all the states were being sued that pass voter ID bill, Mississippi was the only state that wasn't sued and the reason why was because the Secretary of State.
[01:11:49] Compromise with those of us who were saying yeah there's not fair and said okay well if we're going to put into legislation that. We'll put in money.
[01:12:03] You know if you all put money in the Secretary of State's budget we'll put in there that there that each county clerk would get money to create.
[01:12:17] So the ID's so people can vote if they don't have a driver's license they can just come to the county clerk's office and we'll provide that for free. But he basically said I got to give these county clerk's money so they can do that.
[01:12:31] That happened and because of that provision we were like the first state that was like saying well if you don't have an ID. You know we'll give you one so you can go vote. And so that's our Mississippi and then the other Mississippi nugget of that was.
[01:12:49] I was serving on the Transportation Committee and we were voting against the federal provision for real ID.
[01:12:56] And they had to rednose and said you know if y'all don't pass that then any state that didn't pass it then you would have to use a passport instead of your driver's license to get on a plane. So being on the committee I wouldn't get a passport right.
[01:13:11] But the. What ended up happening was. That caucrin who was over preparations kind of convinced the federal government okay well. You know if you want to have a real ID and we want to make this work let's make Mississippi the model driver's license.
[01:13:34] So Mississippi became the pilot state as far as the technology for real ID. And so now it was like we went from.
[01:13:46] Mississippi is with have to use the passport and now it's like our the Mississippi driver's license was the model of what information needs to go in and all that kind of stuff. So the technology is there now for people with they get have a driver's license.
[01:14:02] To be able to. You know go now lead airport but in Georgia they take a technology and if you give your driver's license to the. Where am I trying to say you give your driver's license to the voter registered the voting. The official.
[01:14:26] They have the vice where they stick that in there. Your license in there and then you get. You know it'll print out it'll information so it automatically give that person the right ballot based on the information that's on the ID. So you're not too far off on that.
[01:14:47] But anyway, let's let's get off of that for a minute because I wanted to get on a couple things because we're running short on time. On racism you say a solution is to prioritize equality of education.
[01:15:01] How do you think that will help African Americans and how soon do you think it will make an impact. As I stay in the chapter, I think it's the most important factor in improving the tilted playing field. I do believe there's a tilted playing field.
[01:15:23] I mean, the statistics are just crazy. On the different economic difference between black and white Americans. And I think it traces to just history. Most of the friends statistically in economic success of African Americans from their to white. Coralates with the difference in education.
[01:15:52] Blacks don't get as high equality education on average as whites and that dramatically affects what you can do later in your life. Of course, I like it in a nice short book. My book is not that long.
[01:16:11] I want to be pithy and to the point there are probably a thousand things that need to be done to really level the playing field. In the US, it's a hundred years from now. You won't be economic or social or racist. Gaps in America. I hope and believe.
[01:16:31] So there are a lot of things that need to be done but trying to find the most important. I think it's education. And I mean primarily K to 12 education.
[01:16:40] You know, a black person who manages to get to Harvard one way or another is going to do as well economically as a white person. You know, Michelle Obama worked her ass off. I read her book. It was really enjoyed that biography.
[01:16:57] But you know, the intense pressure and work she went through to get the Harvard, you know, led her to a very successful life. A kid that grows up in a shitty school zone where they don't even teach science beyond grade.
[01:17:15] You know, that kid isn't going to become a computer scientist. And the difference between the worst school in the US and the best school is just it's like this. I came to the you know a huge difference. I came here from Canada in Canada.
[01:17:32] There are good schools and bad schools. The difference from the worst school to the best school is peanuts. Because the funding formula in Canada is much more equal. The school funding doesn't come to your local school board, you know, your local property taxes. It's basically statewide. Yeah.
[01:17:55] Yeah, the history. But you know what? Go ahead. As I said, one thing I really wanted to get out of the podcast. I wanted to get your opinion. Like that was my view. I'm an educated white guy. I would really like to hear from you.
[01:18:10] What do you think is the most important thing that government could do to overcome that history? Well, I'll say this because because there's another question that directly correlates with that. But you're you're not far off to track and I liked the way that you brought up, you know,
[01:18:31] conservative black writers like Thomas Seoul and there and make order about their emphasis on education. Why it's important. If you look at the history of the United States, especially reconstruction when black people started getting political offices, especially in the south.
[01:18:51] If you notice the constitutions in those southern states, they made sure that education public education was a right. And even when in Mississippi, when they were dealing with education issues and I forget the referendum was I think the referendum was about funding.
[01:19:15] You know, for public education and all that. Nobody even in the 1890 constitution when they changed it back to try to limit black voters. And the rights of black people, they did not take out the provision that education is a right.
[01:19:35] And so it's not too far off of the thought that in the black community, that education is key. And inside of Michelle Obama and I are basically about the same age we were in school high school at the same time in Chicago.
[01:19:50] So I definitely understand exactly what she went through. She went to a pretty good high school. And I went to a pretty good high school in the city. You know, so that gave us an advantage over some other kids even in our own city.
[01:20:09] So education is a key component, but I want to get into this other discussion since you asked about government. You state that reparations has overcome some difficult criteria in its design. You elaborate on those criteria and in your opinion, can those criteria be meant?
[01:20:32] I think it's really challenging. You know, if you look at morally at how much negative impact the history of this country has had on black people, the moral cost of reparations would be enormous. So much that I think frankly politically it just couldn't happen.
[01:21:00] Yeah, so it has to be acceptable to a majority of Americans for it to happen. And just the bill, yeah, there's a certain bill would be too high for people to accept even if they acknowledge that it would be fair.
[01:21:18] Yeah, I'm a proponent of reparations, but I think we, you know, to try to couch it. What I always say to try to couch it is the like the Dave Shapel skit. Where everybody got a check? You know what I'm saying?
[01:21:40] You know, I think that's not really feasible because it'll never be enough, right? Yeah. I know in Mississippi we were dealing with a lawsuit to try to make sure that the historically black colleges were funded.
[01:21:57] And when they reached the settlement, there was a picture of the chairman of the College Board and the attorney general for the state high five in each other. And the settlement was close to a billion dollars.
[01:22:17] And I made the statement that if two white guys are high five and given black folks a billion dollars, yeah, we didn't ask for enough. We didn't ask for enough money.
[01:22:32] So you know, if we do it, if we're strictly talking about a check, yeah, that might not be feasible. One of the things, I think we need to explore is programs like you made the suggestion about education funding, for example, from a federal standpoint.
[01:22:57] And you know, the last two administrations. I'm not a big fan of Donald Trump, everybody in the park has knows that. But here's a administration and then Biden doubled down on on the commitment and put more money into the HBCUs, right?
[01:23:15] And then you know, so stuff like that, you know, dealing with a housing situation. I think the housing situation is the most important because and you mentioned in a book about wealth that that was a revelation to you.
[01:23:31] There's a book I would suggest a fitting sense on the dollar by a story and read that will help you and help listeners, of course. Understand the history and the data behind the wealth gap.
[01:23:53] So one of the things that highlights and I really like that is the housing issue because if the more homeowners you have in the black community, the more wealth that blacks will have and wealth and in a capitalistic society is power.
[01:24:13] So I think that's outside of education building wealth is the other key to demand respect and all that. So we've gone over a little bit, so that proves that we don't have the time to discuss each issue you've covered in the book.
[01:24:33] I want people to buy the book for themselves. So let's conclude it like this. How what should people take away from this book once they buy it and read it? Sorry, could you repeat the question? I can kind of appreciate it.
[01:24:52] What do you want people to take away from this book?
[01:24:58] I would like them to have optimism that there really are solutions to all the problems we have in America that the best way to reach them is to think about what the other sites concerns are and try to find common ground.
[01:25:16] I think that common ground really does exist for most issues and we shouldn't listen to the extremist politicians that refuse to compromise and refuse to try to find bipartisan legislation.
[01:25:31] Yeah, and as somebody that was a legislator, I greatly appreciate that because the reality is and you mentioned it earlier that a lot of legislation gets passed, especially in the state level.
[01:25:48] The legislation gets passed with bipartisan support, but that doesn't make the news. Not necessarily now, it was a big issue and it is a surprise that the media that the majority of the legislators agreed on this particular issue.
[01:26:04] But on an everyday basis, every year in state legislatures, because unlike the federal government, you say legislature has to prove a budget. Each state has to prove a budget or else they can't leave the building, right?
[01:26:23] There's always that and there's a lot of issues that members agree on. There may be debate on it, but you know, you tend to reach common ground more commonly than others.
[01:26:41] So I appreciate anybody that wants to try to get to that point of common ground because that's the essence of American politics to me.
[01:26:53] So how can people get a copy of platform of hope ideas, both conservatives and liberals can love? And how can people reach you if they want you to come on their show or give lectures or whatever case maybe?
[01:27:10] You can find links on my website if you Google Timothy Bolt, the ULT. I've got a website with the links to Amazon. My books are available in a few other places, but the easiest is to go to Amazon and find either the electronic or the big-leback.
[01:27:27] Alright, well Timothy Bolt, it was an honor not only to meet you but to get you on the podcast. I am very, very grateful that you took the time and the research to try to come up with a platform of hope.
[01:27:44] And I think that the spirit that you have put out there, if more people, especially those people in the leadership adopt that spirit,
[01:27:56] I think we can navigate from this to most of us time that we're living in. So again, I thank you for writing the book and I thank you for coming on the podcast. It has been a great pleasure. Thank you very much.
[01:28:10] Alright guys, and we're going to catch all on the other side. Alright, and we are back. So, I want to thank Dr. Koreshi and Mr. Bolt for coming on the podcast and please go and get their books.
[01:28:39] Being a Muslim today and platform of hope. Get those books and read them for yourself. The interviews scratched the surface about how in depth those books are even, you know, and they're not long reads.
[01:29:04] They are very substantial and like most of the guests as you've heard me say before, these books are very easy reads. They're not too intellectual, not too academic I guess would be even a better word.
[01:29:21] You can relate to what these people are saying. And, you know, so go out and support them in that endeavor and speaking about support.
[01:29:36] I need y'all's help now. I've been, you know, I've been trying to get folks to subscribe to the Patreon again it's only a dollar a month and I need y'all to do that.
[01:29:50] And more immediately I need y'all to help me raise this money. We've got an awesome opportunity to cover the convention in Chicago and August.
[01:30:02] I've been feeling out my paperwork as far as the secret service stuff and the hotel and all that. But we still are trying to raise some money and I appreciate those of you who have already donated.
[01:30:16] You should have already got your thank you emails for me. But I need y'all to come on now. I know y'all have listened to the podcast, I know y'all paying attention to what's going on and especially with the drama that is developing with the democratic party as far as whether Biden should stay on the ticket or not.
[01:30:39] All that's going to be decided to convince and your voice, the podcast of our time has been invited to be there. Whatever happens, whether it's you know status quo Biden harris all the way to November or there's going to be a dramatic change.
[01:30:58] We've been invited to be there so I need y'all to help. I need y'all to come on and make this happen. So with that appeal again you can go to the go fund me website or the app or make it easy to cover all those bases whether it's patreon or the go fund me campaign go to www.momenteric.com
[01:31:28] and you can access all of that and keep track of all of the episodes that we've been able to do so thank y'all for listening appreciate y'all support until next time. Thank you.