In this episode, Rodney Govens, the Democratic nominee for the 1st Congressional District in Arkansas, makes his case as to why he should go to Washington, D.C. and Dr. Emiliana Vegas of Harvard University discusses her new book, Let’s Change The World.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:02 --> 00:01:04 make this moment of movement.
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00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 The following program is hosted by the NBG podcast network.
00:01:20 --> 00:02:00 Music.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:06 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 Today, I have two guests on.
00:02:10 --> 00:02:16 One is a candidate for office.
00:02:18 --> 00:02:25 When this podcast drops, Election Day will be the next day, November the 4th.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:33 I mean, 5th. I'm sorry. And so this this gentleman wanted to come on and talk
00:02:33 --> 00:02:37 about why he's running for office.
00:02:37 --> 00:02:45 And hopefully the people in his respective area will get some insight.
00:02:46 --> 00:02:53 And if they hadn't voted yet, that this will give them the encouragement to support his candidacy.
00:02:53 --> 00:02:57 My other guest is is an author and an educator.
00:02:59 --> 00:03:06 And she has written a new book that I think is very, very timely for where we are on the planet.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:14 And gets us to the point of what do we do after November the 5th,
00:03:14 --> 00:03:17 not just in the United States, but in the world as a whole.
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 So I think you're all going to enjoy this show. I think you're all going to
00:03:21 --> 00:03:25 get something out of it and give you some inspiration.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:31 Because, again, the whole purpose of this show is to not only highlight people
00:03:31 --> 00:03:36 running for office or people in office, but also to show you that there are
00:03:36 --> 00:03:40 people out here that are not running for office that are doing the work.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:47 And hopefully their work gives those people who are running for office or in
00:03:47 --> 00:03:55 public office the inspiration to do the right thing and truly make a difference.
00:03:57 --> 00:04:03 So let's get this show started and as always we started with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:04:04 --> 00:04:10 Music.
00:04:10 --> 00:04:15 Thanks, Eric. A recent Reuters-Ipsos poll shows Kamala Harris leading Donald
00:04:15 --> 00:04:19 Trump by just one percentage point in the final days of the presidential race.
00:04:19 --> 00:04:24 Over 50 million Americans have cast early voting or mail-in ballots.
00:04:24 --> 00:04:29 Israel launched airstrikes on military sites in Iran in response to an Iranian
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 attack, but avoided targeting critical oil and nuclear facilities.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 Over 200 subscribers canceled their Washington Post digital subscriptions
00:04:38 --> 00:04:42 following its decision not to endorse any candidate for president.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:48 The Philadelphia District Attorney's Office filed a lawsuit against Elon Musk's
00:04:48 --> 00:04:53 political action committee, claiming its $1 million giveaway to voters constitutes
00:04:53 --> 00:04:56 an illegal lottery and violates state laws.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:01 Authorities linked three suspected arsons at ballot drop boxes in Washington
00:05:01 --> 00:05:03 and Oregon, identifying a suspect
00:05:03 --> 00:05:08 vehicle and reporting multiple incidents that damaged ballots. A U.S.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:13 Judge approved a $102 million settlement related to a fatal accident involving
00:05:13 --> 00:05:16 a ship that struck Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:21 The U.S. Supreme Court allowed Virginia to remove voters from its rolls due
00:05:21 --> 00:05:23 to citizenship verification issues.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:28 A federal appeals court ruled against a Mississippi law permitting the counting
00:05:28 --> 00:05:32 of mail ballots postmarked by Election Day but arriving later.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:36 The Nevada Supreme Court ruled that mail-in ballots received after Election
00:05:36 --> 00:05:41 Day without postmarks may be counted Republicans asked the U.S.
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 Supreme Court to intervene in a Pennsylvania ruling that requires counting provisional
00:05:45 --> 00:05:51 ballots from voters who made mistakes on their mail-in ballots A federal appeals
00:05:51 --> 00:05:53 court upheld New York's gun control law,
00:05:53 --> 00:05:59 allowing restrictions on carrying weapons in sensitive locations And President
00:05:59 --> 00:06:02 Joe Biden formally apologized for the U.S.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:06 Government's abusive treatment of Native Americans in federal boarding schools
00:06:06 --> 00:06:11 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:06:12 --> 00:06:18 Music.
00:06:18 --> 00:06:23 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:28 And now, it's time for a guest.
00:06:28 --> 00:06:33 My first guest, and his name is Rodney Govins.
00:06:34 --> 00:06:41 Rodney Govins is a U.S. Army veteran, husband and father, and longtime court-appointed
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 special advocate for abused and neglected children.
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 Rodney was born into a military family in Germany and grew up in Columbia,
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 South Carolina, spending his teen years in foster care.
00:06:53 --> 00:07:02 But more importantly, Mr. Govins is the Democratic nominee for the first congressional
00:07:02 --> 00:07:05 district in Arkansas. He is running for that seat.
00:07:07 --> 00:07:13 And so as you listen to this, he will be on the ballot on Tuesday, Election Day.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:22 So I know it's the 11th hour, but the brother wanted to come on and I agreed
00:07:22 --> 00:07:27 to give him this platform to to make his pitch, not only to the people in Arkansas,
00:07:28 --> 00:07:32 but for those outside Arkansas that may want to help him with Election Day stuff,
00:07:32 --> 00:07:35 you know, as far as money or whatever the case may be.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:40 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
00:07:40 --> 00:07:44 guest on this podcast, Rodney Govins.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:55 Music.
00:07:55 --> 00:07:59 All right. Rodney Govins. How are you doing, brother? You doing good?
00:08:00 --> 00:08:03 Another beautiful day. I appreciate you having me. Thanks for taking the time
00:08:03 --> 00:08:08 out, man. Well, I appreciate you taking the time. This is crunch time for you.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:14 So I know you've got some stuff to do, but we're really honored that you took
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 the time out to kind of talk about what you're dealing with,
00:08:17 --> 00:08:24 which to me is going to be kind of indicative of what is going to happen on Tuesday.
00:08:25 --> 00:08:31 So let's go ahead and get this started. Normally, what I do is I throw a quote
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 at the guest to kind of be an icebreaker. So this is your quote.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:41 We can no longer afford for our leaders to stick to their stick their heads
00:08:41 --> 00:08:44 in the sand and merely hope and pray that it will get better.
00:08:44 --> 00:08:50 We must elect leaders who will who will work in the trenches to build a better
00:08:50 --> 00:08:56 system and find solutions that work for our Kansans in every income bracket.
00:08:57 --> 00:08:58 Talk to me about that quote.
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 First of all, whoever said that sounds pretty great as a candidate.
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03 I mean, I totally support that guy.
00:09:04 --> 00:09:08 Well, what that you know, what that means to me is we we've got representation
00:09:08 --> 00:09:13 right now that screams about, you know, being pro-life. Right.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:14 I hear that throughout the state.
00:09:15 --> 00:09:20 But it doesn't sound very pro-life to me when we've got 4 kids approximately
00:09:20 --> 00:09:25 in foster care and only 1 approved foster homes in the state.
00:09:25 --> 00:09:26 That doesn't sound pro-life.
00:09:26 --> 00:09:32 It doesn't sound pro-life when our state legislator, backed up by the federal
00:09:32 --> 00:09:36 representation here, all four congressmen keep voting this way too,
00:09:36 --> 00:09:41 where we're kicking 300 kids off of Medicaid in the last 24 months alone.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:47 We're taking the most vulnerable child populations and we're removing health care.
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 That doesn't sound very pro-life. And then it doesn't sound very pro-life to
00:09:50 --> 00:09:57 me when we sit back and we bury our heads and forget about our retirement community,
00:09:57 --> 00:10:01 our retirees that have worked so hard all their lives.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 They work their fingers to the bone. They bled. They sweat.
00:10:05 --> 00:10:09 They've cried over their job, putting in 65, 70 hour work weeks.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 And then we sit there and make them make the decision because they're living
00:10:12 --> 00:10:16 on fixed income, whether or not they're going to pay for their rent or whether
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 they're going to pay for their their medicine, their life saving medicine.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:24 It just it doesn't sound very pro-life to me. We bury our heads in the sand
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 and we don't talk about the very issues that impact us on a daily basis.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:31 And it's about time that we actually have representatives that want to start
00:10:31 --> 00:10:36 talking about and fixing the issues and not just trying to spout talking points about, you know,
00:10:36 --> 00:10:41 hateful rhetoric and things of that nature about issues that really aren't going
00:10:41 --> 00:10:43 to impact Arkansans right here locally.
00:10:43 --> 00:10:50 Yeah now you're you're running against the guy who is he's like from the original
00:10:50 --> 00:10:59 tea party he got in in 2010 he's one of the 126 election deniers in the house of representatives.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:07 I asked how did how did it feel debating that guy and what has been your response
00:11:07 --> 00:11:13 from people in community as you go up and knock on doors and talk to people,
00:11:14 --> 00:11:19 as far as how they feel he's been representing them and why they would rather
00:11:19 --> 00:11:20 have you in that position?
00:11:21 --> 00:11:26 So, you know, first, let me begin. You know, debates, to me,
00:11:27 --> 00:11:31 it's not personal, right? I don't know the guy, which is, you know,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 in line with the rest of the constituency. And nobody seems to know him.
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 They don't know who their congressman is. They've never heard of the guy.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:41 But I don't know the guy personally. He could be a great family guy.
00:11:41 --> 00:11:42 He could be a great father.
00:11:42 --> 00:11:46 But he sucks at his job. And that's what I highlighted during the debate.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:50 And I got a lot of positive feedback on that. Now, he took it a little personal.
00:11:50 --> 00:11:54 He went at me in his press conference. He went at me during the debate.
00:11:54 --> 00:11:58 He was he was pretty upset. He didn't even shake my hand after the debate.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:04 So I think that speaks volumes as to the level of representation that he's been
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 giving and that he's going to continue to give if he continues to remain in
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 office because he doesn't care about anybody but himself.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:15 And that's kind of the story that I got about him throughout the years.
00:12:15 --> 00:12:20 And me living here in Arkansas, I live in Cabot, Arkansas, you know,
00:12:20 --> 00:12:23 right down the road and two minutes from his office. And he hasn't been there in over eight years.
00:12:24 --> 00:12:28 And I hear that same story throughout all 31 counties. This guy never comes
00:12:28 --> 00:12:32 around. And when he does come around, it's for a photo op or parade.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:34 And then he immediately leaves.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:38 He doesn't engage his constituents at all. So, you know, going door to door,
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 having the conversations with people.
00:12:40 --> 00:12:44 We've got a lot of people that, you know, have Trump hats on that have Trump
00:12:44 --> 00:12:45 flags out front that are going to
00:12:45 --> 00:12:50 vote for us because we're bringing the representation to their doorstep.
00:12:50 --> 00:12:54 They've never had an opportunity to talk about, you know, any of the issues
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 that they care about with a politician.
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 And they said that's something refreshing that we're bringing to the table.
00:13:00 --> 00:13:04 And that even though we're running as a Democrat, they're going to throw their
00:13:04 --> 00:13:08 votes and tell their families to vote for us because that's something that they
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 know we sorely need. And on that, we can all agree.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:18 Yeah. And that's that's always good to be able to to get people to to respond
00:13:18 --> 00:13:21 positively to the message that you're bringing to them directly.
00:13:21 --> 00:13:26 So you said your opponents said some things about you at the debate.
00:13:26 --> 00:13:34 Why don't you tell the listeners who you really are and why you decided to run for Congress?
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 So for the last seven years plus, I volunteer.
00:13:40 --> 00:13:44 I'm a volunteer advocate with the Court Appointed Special Advocates out of Grand Prairie.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:49 We cover Monroe, Woodruff, Arkansas County, Lone Oak County.
00:13:49 --> 00:13:53 And me being in Lone Oak County, I primarily get Lone Oak County cases,
00:13:53 --> 00:13:56 but I follow my foster kids everywhere and I advocate for their voice in court.
00:13:57 --> 00:14:00 It's the best job I never got paid for. I always just want to help.
00:14:00 --> 00:14:05 Even when I was in telecommunications, I worked at Swift Fiber for many, many years.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:09 And for well for a few years and in the few years that I was there we brought
00:14:09 --> 00:14:14 fiber to the home internet as I was a state operations manager to places like
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 Wilmot Arkansas Parkdale Portland,
00:14:17 --> 00:14:23 Eudora Hamburg Crossett Plumnoak Carlisle England Star City and even the outskirts
00:14:23 --> 00:14:30 of Lincoln County and the reason for that was for me personally no child should
00:14:30 --> 00:14:34 lack resources or opportunities simply based on where they're born.
00:14:34 --> 00:14:38 Every child deserves the same opportunities to be successful in life.
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 And broadband is a big, big piece of that.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:47 So I advocate hard for the people that really feel forgotten because I know
00:14:47 --> 00:14:48 what it's like to be broke and poor.
00:14:48 --> 00:14:52 I used to be in foster care and that's why I do the CASA thing.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 Coming out of foster care, the statistics, I shouldn't have made it.
00:14:56 --> 00:15:02 I got lucky. And more than just luck, I had advocates in my corner.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:04 So I've got to pay that forward.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:07 And now the blueprint has been laid on how to advocate to people.
00:15:08 --> 00:15:13 And it doesn't take a genius to go and fight for the rights of every single
00:15:13 --> 00:15:16 person, every single human being right here in Arkansas.
00:15:17 --> 00:15:21 It just takes somebody to do it. And Dr. Jones was the one who recruited me
00:15:21 --> 00:15:24 to do this, man. Dr. Jones shouts out to Chris Jones.
00:15:24 --> 00:15:28 You know, my son thinks he hung the moon and the stars in my house.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:33 Hard for daddy to kind of compete with that with the NASA accolades and all that.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:38 But, you know, he asked me, you know, if I would run and he told me the only
00:15:38 --> 00:15:43 thing that he would ask me to do is advocate just as hard for the people here
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47 in Arkansas as I advocate for my foster kids. So, you know, I'm a veteran.
00:15:47 --> 00:15:54 I served my country from 01 to 05. I served in Operation Iraqi Freedom Part 1 from 2003 to 2004.
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 So I know what war is. I've been in a war. I've been shot at.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:02 And I'm, you know, and I know what it is to have to go through the VA and understand
00:16:02 --> 00:16:06 the situations there. And when you know better, you do better.
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 And now that I know better, I'm trying to do better. And I'm trying to help
00:16:10 --> 00:16:13 every single person that I possibly can right here at home.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:19 So talk about home. Talk about that first congressional district in Arkansas
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 for the listeners that are not from the state.
00:16:23 --> 00:16:29 Where is that? And I know Jonesboro is kind of like the big city there,
00:16:29 --> 00:16:33 but like where, you know, where is it positioned in the state?
00:16:33 --> 00:16:38 And just some of the characteristics, why is it unique?
00:16:39 --> 00:16:46 Man it's big if you haven't seen it it's big ain't it we we got we got 31 counties
00:16:46 --> 00:16:52 in this district and it goes from boone county you know the biggest city in
00:16:52 --> 00:16:54 boone county is harrison arkansas,
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 and i don't know you know and for the listeners that don't know i challenge
00:16:58 --> 00:17:03 anybody uh just google harrison arkansas and pull up the wikipedia page you'll
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 learn everything that you probably want to learn about Harrison,
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 and we can go into details a little bit later,
00:17:07 --> 00:17:12 but it goes from Boone County all the way over to Crittenden County,
00:17:12 --> 00:17:17 Memphis, West Memphis, Arkansas, and then it goes all the way down to Chico
00:17:17 --> 00:17:19 County, Eudora, Arkansas.
00:17:19 --> 00:17:25 So it goes and borders four different states. It borders Louisiana, Tennessee.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:38 Missouri and Kentucky. Yeah, it's like because I-55 goes through the eastern part of that district.
00:17:38 --> 00:17:42 Yeah. I'm sorry, and Louisiana. And Louisiana for, you know,
00:17:42 --> 00:17:45 Chico County is the first county after Louisiana line. So.
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 Right. And, yeah, so, I mean, it's a lot.
00:17:50 --> 00:17:55 And that's the area that people call the Delta area in Arkansas. Is that correct?
00:17:55 --> 00:18:00 Yeah. And the Delta, for those that don't know, the Delta is so special,
00:18:00 --> 00:18:06 not just to Arkansas, but to America for vastly different reasons.
00:18:06 --> 00:18:12 Number one, every time you put a plate of food down in front of your kids, in front of yourself.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:17 You know, anytime you have a cookout, anything like that, more than likely,
00:18:17 --> 00:18:23 you know, over 80% probability, some of that food came from Arkansas and it
00:18:23 --> 00:18:25 came from the Delta region. We're talking rice.
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 We got rice, cotton, soybean.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:33 Northern Arkansas has cattle farming like no other. Poultry farming.
00:18:33 --> 00:18:40 We've got two of the biggest farming industry giants in Riceland and Tyson are
00:18:40 --> 00:18:44 right here in Arkansas, and the Delta is the hub of that.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:48 So, you know, anybody that likes rice, man, I know I do. I'm telling you nine
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 out of 10 times, man, that rice came from Arkansas. We feed America.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:57 Now, as an African-American myself, the Delta holds a special place to me because
00:18:57 --> 00:19:01 we have a lot of forgotten history that happened right there in the Delta.
00:19:01 --> 00:19:05 And nobody likes to talk about it. Nobody likes to acknowledge it.
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 But it's time that we actually start talking about it, acknowledging it,
00:19:09 --> 00:19:13 embracing it, and learning from it. So the Delta is very, very special,
00:19:13 --> 00:19:18 not just to me, not just to Arkansas, but it should be special to the United States of America.
00:19:19 --> 00:19:25 So what are the most important issues for that district that you want to address
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 as as the next congressman?
00:19:28 --> 00:19:32 So first and foremost, man, I want to make sure everybody understands.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:37 And I like to, you know, kind of equate it so that people can relate because I know I've been there.
00:19:38 --> 00:19:42 I remember there's times where I woke up, especially as a kid with my biological
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 mother, before I got into foster care, where I turn on the faucet and the water's not coming out.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 And immediately in my head, the first thing I'm thinking is,
00:19:50 --> 00:19:51 man, did we forget to pay the bill?
00:19:52 --> 00:19:55 Right? Because that's the first thought that anybody would go through.
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 But then when you go through, if you live in Helena, West Helena,
00:19:58 --> 00:20:02 and you get past that thought, you go look and you say, yeah, I did pay the bill.
00:20:02 --> 00:20:07 Now, typically what happens is you call the water company and maybe there's a mistake made.
00:20:07 --> 00:20:10 They got an address screwed up or maybe they've got a water main that got hit.
00:20:11 --> 00:20:14 And then within a few hours, you can go ahead and put that water in the pot
00:20:14 --> 00:20:17 and start cooking. Not in Helena West, Helena.
00:20:18 --> 00:20:23 Eric, they've gone weeks at a time on four different occasions this year.
00:20:23 --> 00:20:25 They've gone weeks without any water.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 Now, let's think about that. That means you got to go a couple of weeks without
00:20:29 --> 00:20:33 taking a shower. You got to go a couple of weeks without putting water in a
00:20:33 --> 00:20:38 pot to boil for noodles, for food, for rice, right?
00:20:38 --> 00:20:44 Like you can't cook, you can't clean, you can't bathe, you can't do anything.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:48 You can't have drinking water out of the faucet because it ain't working.
00:20:49 --> 00:20:52 Helena West Helena's water infrastructure has got to get fixed.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:56 And that should be an issue on everybody's table across the country because
00:20:56 --> 00:21:02 it is a human right. It is a human right, especially in this country,
00:21:02 --> 00:21:06 to have accessible, drinkable, potable water.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 If you're paying the bill, how in the world can you sit there and not have water?
00:21:11 --> 00:21:16 So that's the big issue. And to tie into that, another area in the Delta,
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 there's a town called Elaine, Arkansas.
00:21:19 --> 00:21:22 Now, Elaine's got a history, and I won't get into that right now,
00:21:22 --> 00:21:23 but I'm going to talk about the water situation.
00:21:24 --> 00:21:29 USA Today went around to every single municipality across the country a few
00:21:29 --> 00:21:32 years ago, and they raided everybody's water tower.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:37 Elaine ranked number six in the country in the worst water towers.
00:21:37 --> 00:21:39 Number six in the country.
00:21:39 --> 00:21:45 Of all the cities and states, of all the counties, of every single place across
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 America, they were number six worst in the country.
00:21:48 --> 00:21:55 And Elaine does not have the tax capital to bring to the table to qualify for
00:21:55 --> 00:21:57 a grant to get that water tower fixed.
00:21:57 --> 00:21:59 Now, that's something that I
00:21:59 --> 00:22:04 know I can directly handle and fix for Mayor Gilbert down there in Elaine.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:08 We can work together and fix that. So the big issue, you know,
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 is infrastructure when it comes to water right there. That's the number one.
00:22:12 --> 00:22:18 Now, before you go on. So you said Mayor Gilbert. Now, is that the city that
00:22:18 --> 00:22:24 has the youngest mayor, the young man that came straight out of high school and got elected?
00:22:24 --> 00:22:29 No, no. That's Earl, Arkansas now. And that's also my district.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:33 That's up there by Critton and Craighead County out there down the road from
00:22:33 --> 00:22:35 Hughes. Man, I'm going to tell you.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:40 And Earl, and I'm going to tie in. This is my second thing when it comes to infrastructure.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 Earl does not have a grocery store.
00:22:45 --> 00:22:50 Let me say this. Earl Arkansas, the youngest mayor in the country,
00:22:50 --> 00:22:55 has been working his butt off and finally got a Dollar General Market in Earl.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 But they don't have a grocery store outside of that.
00:22:58 --> 00:23:02 Now, I can't imagine, you know, going through some of these places.
00:23:02 --> 00:23:06 I mean, there's Parkin, there's Earl, there's Hughes, there's these little smaller
00:23:06 --> 00:23:11 rural communities between Jonesboro and Helena West Helena. and you go into
00:23:11 --> 00:23:15 those towns and the only way that you get some groceries is at a gas station.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 I don't need a bag of Takis, Eric. I need an orange.
00:23:19 --> 00:23:26 I need a bundle of bananas, man. I don't need the Doritos Cool Ranch chips to feed my kids tonight.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:30 I got to buy some stuff to cook. I need some eggs.
00:23:30 --> 00:23:32 So we've got food desert.
00:23:32 --> 00:23:36 That's the second thing. And I think we can tie in,
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 you know, in an infrastructure manner, we can tie in the ability to help the
00:23:40 --> 00:23:43 Earls and the Parkins and, you know,
00:23:43 --> 00:23:49 the Elanes and the Eudoras, where we can make sure that not only do we have
00:23:49 --> 00:23:53 access to this food, but that it is plentiful and we have opportunities and
00:23:53 --> 00:23:56 options when we go out to the grocery store.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:00 Don't nobody need to drive an hour out of their way to simply go grocery shopping.
00:24:01 --> 00:24:06 And then, you know, the other thing, you know, two other things is fixing the
00:24:06 --> 00:24:10 VA medical center, medical and administrative department.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:13 The VA has failed our veterans for decades.
00:24:14 --> 00:24:20 This policy that they have, it feels like delayed deny until they die. It's got to stop.
00:24:20 --> 00:24:23 I've got my own personal account, but I'm going to give you one.
00:24:23 --> 00:24:25 A friend of mine, and I can't use his name.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 I'm not going to use his name right now, but A friend of mine,
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 he lives around the corner from my house.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 He's got stage four pancreatic cancer.
00:24:36 --> 00:24:40 His doctors have equated it to being exposed to toxic chemicals.
00:24:41 --> 00:24:46 Because he's never had a VA claim, he cannot use the PAC Act yet.
00:24:46 --> 00:24:50 So he's got to go through the rigmarole of filing a claim with the VA.
00:24:50 --> 00:24:53 And an intent to file is what they call it. When you finally,
00:24:53 --> 00:24:57 you know, drop down the paperwork and supply them, you know,
00:24:57 --> 00:24:59 with what you're trying to claim as being service connected.
00:25:00 --> 00:25:03 On average, it takes 134 days to process that claim.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:07 I don't want to get too, you know, I don't want to get too negative,
00:25:07 --> 00:25:10 but I don't know that my friend has 134 days, Eric.
00:25:11 --> 00:25:14 He's in hostels right now. And this is how we honor our veterans.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:20 Like this is what we do. We make them wait 134 days without any health insurance,
00:25:20 --> 00:25:21 without any health coverage.
00:25:21 --> 00:25:26 Imagine how many veterans come back from combat theaters suffering from physical
00:25:26 --> 00:25:32 ailments because constantly having to run away from gunfire or getting blown off of the tank.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:35 Because I've got a friend of mine that had that happen to him.
00:25:35 --> 00:25:40 Or you've gone through airborne training so your knee's a little messed up or
00:25:40 --> 00:25:45 you come back with the scars of war mentally and you can go over four months
00:25:45 --> 00:25:50 without any services being rendered to you simply because they haven't processed
00:25:50 --> 00:25:52 your paperwork fast enough.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:57 No wonder we have problems with veteran suicide and veteran issues and veteran
00:25:57 --> 00:25:58 homelessness in this country.
00:25:58 --> 00:26:03 It's about time we start expecting our VA to stop doing things in 134 days and
00:26:03 --> 00:26:06 start doing things within 134 hours for our vets.
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 I'm tired of hearing thank you for your service when we keep electing these
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 feckless leaders in office that don't want to fix these things.
00:26:14 --> 00:26:17 And then the last thing, which is near and dear to me, and of course,
00:26:17 --> 00:26:21 we've got a million different ideas there. So these aren't just the only things, right?
00:26:21 --> 00:26:26 But the last big thing for me, man, is that we got to do better for our foster kids.
00:26:26 --> 00:26:31 We got to do better for our foster kids. They're foundational in society,
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 whether we want to talk about it or not.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:38 We have to do better for the 300 to 350 kids that are aging out of the system
00:26:38 --> 00:26:43 every year here in Arkansas, not to mention the number gets a little bit bigger,
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 you know, going across the country.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 We need them to be fully equipped and ready to live independently and be productive
00:26:49 --> 00:26:54 members of society and not use foster care as a feeder system into the criminal justice system.
00:26:55 --> 00:26:58 It's time we start doing better by our kids. And I think we can,
00:26:58 --> 00:27:02 if we can fix a couple of those issues, I think we're going to do a lot better
00:27:02 --> 00:27:05 here, not just as a state here in Arkansas, but as a country overall.
00:27:06 --> 00:27:10 Yeah, well, based on that, what's your answer? It sounds like when you talk
00:27:10 --> 00:27:15 to Speaker Jeffries, because if you're elected, Speaker Jeffries is going to
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 be the speaker, you know, just do a basic now.
00:27:21 --> 00:27:26 So it sounds like you're going to get on Veterans Affairs.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:31 It sounds like you're going to get on agriculture. culture and I wish I knew
00:27:31 --> 00:27:34 the congressional committees by heart up there, but I,
00:27:35 --> 00:27:40 I would assume commerce, I think, is the one that deals with the broadband stuff.
00:27:40 --> 00:27:43 And then whatever human services, health and human services,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:46 I think, is the one that deals with foster care.
00:27:46 --> 00:27:51 Those sounds like the committees you're going to be on if you get elected.
00:27:52 --> 00:27:55 That's the goal. Those are the ones that I want. Absolutely.
00:27:57 --> 00:28:03 So why did you, why did you in this climate of politics decide,
00:28:04 --> 00:28:06 yeah, this is, this is the time to run?
00:28:07 --> 00:28:11 Because this has been a very, very divided moment.
00:28:11 --> 00:28:14 It's much different than when I was in public office.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:20 I joke with my friends and tell them, I don't know, because I'm older and,
00:28:20 --> 00:28:24 you know, it's just a different time when I, when I served.
00:28:25 --> 00:28:31 I don't know if I would have the patience to deal with some of these folks in
00:28:31 --> 00:28:36 Washington. What made you decide, yeah, OK, this is the time?
00:28:37 --> 00:28:43 Man, that's that's a good that's a good question, because and I go back to,
00:28:43 --> 00:28:45 you know, this statement.
00:28:45 --> 00:28:49 I don't know who to attribute the quote to, but I've heard I've heard it used
00:28:49 --> 00:28:52 throughout the civil rights movement. I've heard it used recently.
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 It's always stuck with me. If not now, when?
00:28:56 --> 00:29:00 If we really want change, are we going to sit back and continue to wait?
00:29:00 --> 00:29:02 Because how has waiting been working out for us?
00:29:02 --> 00:29:08 How has it been working out for us that we want change, but we don't do anything to affect the change?
00:29:09 --> 00:29:16 So if not now, when? And of course, my wife, you know, well, if not you, then who?
00:29:17 --> 00:29:21 Because we all want a congressional rep and we all want representatives that
00:29:21 --> 00:29:26 understand what it's like to live like us, to be like us, to be a member of the community.
00:29:26 --> 00:29:31 We want a representative that, you know, their kids go to these public schools that my kids go to.
00:29:31 --> 00:29:35 We want representatives that, you know, pay the same, you know,
00:29:35 --> 00:29:40 broadband and internet bill that I pay. We want representatives that understand
00:29:40 --> 00:29:44 what it's like when the bills come in and you got to make a decision on which
00:29:44 --> 00:29:45 bill you got to wait on. Right.
00:29:46 --> 00:29:51 Until you understand all that stuff, it's hard to get behind a representative
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 because they, you know, politics is politics.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:58 Eric, you know that, you know, there's a lot of lip service that goes into it.
00:29:58 --> 00:30:03 But when you get somebody, especially when you get a candidate that that can
00:30:03 --> 00:30:08 actually speak to these things and that knows the issues and they're passionate
00:30:08 --> 00:30:11 about helping, like it's hard to find that candidate.
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 And I sat there and I told Dr. Jones, we just got to find that candidate.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:17 And he kept telling me, well, maybe it's you.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:22 You know what? If not now, when? And if not you, who?
00:30:22 --> 00:30:27 So that's that's kind of why I said, you know, now's got to be the time.
00:30:27 --> 00:30:31 It's got to be the time. The season for change is always around you,
00:30:32 --> 00:30:34 right? Ecclesiastes, I think, chapter three, verse 28.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:40 There's a season for everything, right? Leaves change on the trees, crops come and go.
00:30:41 --> 00:30:45 Well, a season for change is upon us, and we can make that change.
00:30:45 --> 00:30:48 We just got to work. We got to put in the work to do it.
00:30:49 --> 00:30:54 And I know about me, ain't nobody going to outwork me. You might out-raise me when it comes to money.
00:30:55 --> 00:30:57 You might be a better fundraiser. You might be a better salesman,
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 but nobody's going to outwork me and nobody's going to care more than I do.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:08 So following up on that, what do you think is the most important characteristic
00:31:08 --> 00:31:13 for an elected official, especially a member of Congress to have?
00:31:15 --> 00:31:21 Critical thinking and relatability, if I could bundle both of those up,
00:31:21 --> 00:31:26 because it's hard to, you know, and I always go back to like my favorite politician of all time.
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 I was a kid, Eric. I'm only 41 years old. I was a kid when this was going on.
00:31:30 --> 00:31:35 But when Bill Clinton ran for president, I remember sneaking out of out of my bedroom.
00:31:35 --> 00:31:41 I was living with my biological mother at the time, snuck out of my bedroom, turn the TV on real low.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:45 And I watched Arsenio Hall because I heard that this dude was going to be on
00:31:45 --> 00:31:46 there. And I wanted to see this dude.
00:31:47 --> 00:31:53 And he jumps on the saxophone and he talks about, you know, he talked about smoking marijuana.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:56 Right. Where he said, you know, he's never inhaled or whatever. Right.
00:31:57 --> 00:32:01 And I remember laughing to myself because that's exactly what I heard some of
00:32:01 --> 00:32:05 the guys in my neighborhood say, you know, like, you know, just tell the cops
00:32:05 --> 00:32:06 that you never inhaled it. Right.
00:32:06 --> 00:32:09 Like, and I always laughed about that because it was so relatable.
00:32:10 --> 00:32:13 And he talked about coming up poor, talk about coming up, you know,
00:32:13 --> 00:32:16 trailer parks and, you know, dirt floors.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 And I'm looking around like that's kind of like me.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:23 And I remember how relatable he was. And I remember how much critical thinking
00:32:23 --> 00:32:28 he had and how important education was to him. And I said, man, that makes sense.
00:32:29 --> 00:32:34 Everything he's saying makes sense. And when you think about it, he's right.
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 And that's the most important thing to have, because when you get a representative
00:32:38 --> 00:32:42 that's out of touch, like the guy we currently got, look at what happens.
00:32:42 --> 00:32:46 You never know who he is. He's never around. And the only thing he cares about
00:32:46 --> 00:32:48 is padding his own pockets. That's not helping nobody.
00:32:49 --> 00:32:54 The only people that he's helping are people that relate to him,
00:32:54 --> 00:33:01 the rich, the corporate entities, the guys that are literally trying to put
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 people in slave factories.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:07 Those are the people that he relates to. Those are the people that relate to him.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:12 Well, we need representatives that can actually relate to the average person
00:33:12 --> 00:33:15 struggling, living paycheck to paycheck, because I know what that's like. I live that life.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:19 I've lived that life. if I understand what it's like to try to build a career
00:33:19 --> 00:33:24 and go to school so that you can have the educational accolades to get the next promotion.
00:33:25 --> 00:33:30 He's never had to go through that. So when I look at what, what values I want
00:33:30 --> 00:33:34 a representative to have, I need relatability and critical thinking are the core.
00:33:35 --> 00:33:41 Yeah. And I think that's important. So let me, let me close out with, with this question.
00:33:41 --> 00:33:44 Now your opponent, like I said, it's been there.
00:33:45 --> 00:33:48 He was, he was part of the Tea Party revolt that got in there.
00:33:49 --> 00:33:54 And that district has been considered heavy Republican.
00:33:55 --> 00:33:58 You know, in 2008, when I ran for the U.S.
00:33:59 --> 00:34:04 Senate, you know, Barack Obama was on the ticket and it was a lot of enthusiasm
00:34:04 --> 00:34:09 and people thought I was going to win because it was just that momentum, that energy.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:15 And I was running in Mississippi. So, you know, So neither one of us won Mississippi.
00:34:17 --> 00:34:23 And primarily because, yeah, it was it was a big turnout, a bigger turnout than
00:34:23 --> 00:34:31 ever had been for people that look like us and vote the way that we want people to vote.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:34 But they had a huge turnout, too.
00:34:34 --> 00:34:38 And that guy that I ran against got more votes than he ever got in his life.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:42 And he had been in Congress since 1979.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:51 So what what gives you hope that this election in 2024 is going to be different?
00:34:51 --> 00:34:53 What what are you seeing?
00:34:53 --> 00:35:00 What are you feeling that people are going to I mean, you kind of touched on
00:35:00 --> 00:35:02 a little bit when you talk about your door to door experiences.
00:35:02 --> 00:35:07 But what what gives you hope that this is not going to be a typical year and
00:35:07 --> 00:35:14 that it's not going to be, you know, in some of these red districts that is
00:35:14 --> 00:35:15 going to be business as usual?
00:35:16 --> 00:35:19 I'm going to give you I'm going to give you I'm going to give you an example.
00:35:19 --> 00:35:24 It ties in two places. Eudora, Arkansas, which is majority African-American.
00:35:25 --> 00:35:29 I would contend it's about 80 percent, maybe 85 percent African-American.
00:35:30 --> 00:35:33 And then I'm going to use Harrison, Arkansas. For your listeners that don't
00:35:33 --> 00:35:38 know, Harrison, Arkansas is the unofficial capital of KKK, led by a gentleman
00:35:38 --> 00:35:40 by the name of Thomas Robb.
00:35:40 --> 00:35:43 He owns a radio station. It's actually called White Pride Radio.
00:35:44 --> 00:35:48 Can't make that up. And he has a billboard on Highway 65 going into Harrison.
00:35:48 --> 00:35:50 It's outside of city limits.
00:35:50 --> 00:35:54 They own the land. They own the billboard. And he has a White Pride Radio sign
00:35:54 --> 00:35:56 up. I'm not even going to give you the slogan. It's so stupid.
00:35:57 --> 00:36:01 But I will tell you this. I go to Harrison. And I went door to door.
00:36:02 --> 00:36:07 I've been there several times and, you know, it's hard to believe,
00:36:07 --> 00:36:10 but Harrison, the people there have shown me love and here's why.
00:36:11 --> 00:36:18 I'm not going to slink. I am not going to shy away from, and I am not going
00:36:18 --> 00:36:23 to cower down to any ideology that, you know,
00:36:24 --> 00:36:28 is hindering the progress of working for the people.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:33 And when I go door to door as an African-American man in a very,
00:36:33 --> 00:36:39 very heavily racist city historically, right, you go in with an expectation.
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 Well, this is the way Harrison is. And I hear it from people all the time.
00:36:43 --> 00:36:45 You don't want to go up there, Rodney.
00:36:45 --> 00:36:48 You know how you look. You know how they treat us up there.
00:36:49 --> 00:36:54 90% of the people up there in Harrison are good people. It's the extreme 10% that are not.
00:36:55 --> 00:37:02 So when I go up there and it feels different than what everybody has tried to prep me for.
00:37:02 --> 00:37:06 And I have these conversations with people and they tell me about their issues.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:10 They care about women's rights. They care about public education.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:13 They care about rural broadband expansion.
00:37:13 --> 00:37:15 These are things that they tell me they care about going door to door.
00:37:16 --> 00:37:20 They care about having an ambulance desert, right? They're tired of having people
00:37:20 --> 00:37:23 have to take an hour, hour and a half ambulance rides into Harrison.
00:37:23 --> 00:37:27 These are things they care about. When I go down to Eudora, which is overwhelmingly
00:37:27 --> 00:37:31 black, why do I hear the same issues come up every door to door that I go to?
00:37:31 --> 00:37:38 What gives me hope is we have more in common with each other than we have dissimilarities.
00:37:39 --> 00:37:43 See, we're so, we're so, so very similar.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:47 And all it takes is a little bit of conversation. That's all it takes.
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 So it's amazing to me when I go up to Harrison and I talk about the issues with
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 people and they start saying, you know what?
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 I agree with that you know what i agree with that
00:37:57 --> 00:38:00 you know what you ain't too bad who you
00:38:00 --> 00:38:03 running against you're running as a democrat wait a minute you're running as
00:38:03 --> 00:38:08 a democrat and i get people that are wearing trump hats and trump overalls something
00:38:08 --> 00:38:11 i'm telling you right now is the craziest thing i've ever seen over there in
00:38:11 --> 00:38:15 jasper arkansas they got trump overalls man the dude knows how to market some
00:38:15 --> 00:38:18 stuff these people are saying i'm voting for you.
00:38:19 --> 00:38:23 Now, these people, I look at them and they say, listen, I'm voting for Donald
00:38:23 --> 00:38:25 Trump, but I'm voting for you.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:28 I'm finding your name on the ballot. And it's because you're talking to me.
00:38:29 --> 00:38:30 You're not talking at me.
00:38:31 --> 00:38:34 And then I take that same message and that same approach throughout the Delta.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 And the same exact message resonates with every single person.
00:38:40 --> 00:38:44 What gives me hope is the fact that people are tired of the same old rigmarole and rhetoric.
00:38:45 --> 00:38:48 They're tired of the divisive nature of politics and what it has become.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:50 Not everything is a political issue.
00:38:50 --> 00:38:58 So it is it is it is refreshing to know when I can sit in front of a Trump advocate
00:38:58 --> 00:39:04 and I can sit in front of somebody voting for Kamala Harris like myself and
00:39:04 --> 00:39:09 they listen to what I have to say and they look at the platform and they say he's the guy.
00:39:09 --> 00:39:13 That's what gives me hope and word spreads. And the other thing is,
00:39:13 --> 00:39:17 and I appreciate my opponent for this, too, since he filed that lawsuit that
00:39:17 --> 00:39:18 kind of helped us out a lot, too.
00:39:18 --> 00:39:25 I think the veil is starting to become uncovered on what, not just my opponent,
00:39:25 --> 00:39:27 but what the Republican Party is all about.
00:39:27 --> 00:39:29 And this lawsuit is a perfect example of this.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:34 Right now, if you go and Google Rick Crawford lawsuit, it tells you everything you need to know.
00:39:35 --> 00:39:40 This man is suing the American taxpayer for 12 years of back pay into his retirement account.
00:39:40 --> 00:39:43 He wants 12 years of back pay into his checking account immediately.
00:39:43 --> 00:39:47 And he wants an immediate pay raise above $200 a year.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:51 Now, Mr. Fleming, you know, you're a politician.
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54 Congress votes on their raises every session.
00:39:54 --> 00:40:00 So him and a majority of his peers in Congress have voted not to give themselves
00:40:00 --> 00:40:03 raises, I think, since 2009 or 2010.
00:40:03 --> 00:40:10 So he's been stuck at $174 a year, which is five times more than the average
00:40:10 --> 00:40:13 Arkansan, three times more than the entire average household.
00:40:13 --> 00:40:17 And you're going to sit here and tell me you can't get by on that.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:23 And instead of suing Hakeem and Nancy and Mitch and Mike, you want to sue the
00:40:23 --> 00:40:25 American tax, but you're suing your own constituency.
00:40:26 --> 00:40:31 The Republican Party is is that is the Republican Party for you in a nutshell.
00:40:32 --> 00:40:35 And that is my opponent in a nutshell. He does not care about you.
00:40:36 --> 00:40:39 He does not care about the people he's supposed to be representing.
00:40:39 --> 00:40:43 He gives he is less than two craps about the help people in hell in the West.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:46 He never been there. But you know what he does care about?
00:40:47 --> 00:40:51 He cares about going up to Harrison for a book signing because he wanted to make some money.
00:40:52 --> 00:40:55 He cares about having fundraisers so that he can make some money.
00:40:56 --> 00:41:00 And he cares about padding his pockets, which is why he's suing us. He's suing you.
00:41:00 --> 00:41:05 He's suing me. He's suing the American people for back paying a pay raise.
00:41:05 --> 00:41:09 What gives me hope is when no matter who you are, what side of the aisle you
00:41:09 --> 00:41:12 stand on, when you hear that, we all agree.
00:41:13 --> 00:41:18 That's a little much to swallow and take. It's a little too egregious for everybody's taste.
00:41:19 --> 00:41:24 Yeah. And it's like, you know, when you, first of all, when you run for office.
00:41:25 --> 00:41:27 You about to get me on a rant here, I'll be brief.
00:41:27 --> 00:41:31 But it's like, when you, when you run for office, you know, it's like,
00:41:32 --> 00:41:33 it's not about the money.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:41 It's about the service. Right. And then once you are informed of what the pay is,
00:41:42 --> 00:41:47 That's what you sign up for, because it's not like you negotiating your salary when you get in there.
00:41:47 --> 00:41:51 It's not like, oh, I'm going to give you a performance-based raise based on
00:41:51 --> 00:41:54 the work you're doing compared to other members of the legislature.
00:41:54 --> 00:41:55 No, that's not how that works.
00:41:56 --> 00:42:03 And I say that as somebody that served in the lowest paid state legislature in America.
00:42:04 --> 00:42:10 And I don't regret one bit of that because my job was to represent my constituents.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:14 Whatever I got was a blessing from God for doing that kind of work,
00:42:14 --> 00:42:17 considering I was only going to be up there three or four months a year.
00:42:18 --> 00:42:22 So, you know, yeah, that's that's very telling.
00:42:22 --> 00:42:27 Well, here's the thing. Right. And I want to make sure not to cut you off,
00:42:27 --> 00:42:32 but I want to make sure, you know, people people understand because this is this is his response.
00:42:33 --> 00:42:36 He had a press conference after the debate that we had where he didn't even
00:42:36 --> 00:42:37 want to shake my hand after the debate.
00:42:37 --> 00:42:40 I thought that was funny, but he's in his press conference and somebody asked
00:42:40 --> 00:42:46 him a question contrasting my campaign versus, you know, his run for reelection
00:42:46 --> 00:42:50 in which they talked about how, you know, I've knocked over 8000 doors.
00:42:50 --> 00:42:55 I've held town halls. I go out and talk to the constituency and his campaign
00:42:55 --> 00:42:58 and his run for reelection. He is not doing any of that.
00:42:58 --> 00:43:01 He hasn't had a town hall in over 12 years. Right.
00:43:02 --> 00:43:06 And he's his comment. His response was, that's what you have to do when you
00:43:06 --> 00:43:08 don't have any name recognition.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:11 Well, let me go ahead and contend that contest that a little bit.
00:43:12 --> 00:43:15 I contend that. No, that's the job.
00:43:16 --> 00:43:19 See, you're in public service. You're supposed to be there to represent people's voices.
00:43:20 --> 00:43:22 How can you represent somebody's voice when you never talk to them,
00:43:23 --> 00:43:26 when you've never been accessible, when you've never gone out of your way to
00:43:26 --> 00:43:32 hold a town hall, when you've never heard somebody tell you how they feel about an issue?
00:43:32 --> 00:43:34 How can you then turn around and represent my voice?
00:43:34 --> 00:43:38 You're not representing my voice, you're representing your own. And that is not the job.
00:43:39 --> 00:43:44 That's what I contend is when you're in public service, that's what you're supposed to do.
00:43:44 --> 00:43:48 See, you're supposed to go to Harrison, Arkansas, even if you are black like me.
00:43:48 --> 00:43:51 And you're supposed to have a conversation with those people up there.
00:43:51 --> 00:43:54 And then you're supposed to go down to Eudora and have a conversation with them.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:58 And you're supposed to go over to hell in the West Helen and have a conversation with them.
00:43:58 --> 00:44:03 The job is exactly what we've been doing on this campaign, and it should never stop.
00:44:03 --> 00:44:08 It is public service. That is service to the public. You are absolutely correct.
00:44:10 --> 00:44:14 So, ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to Rodney Govins,
00:44:14 --> 00:44:19 who is the Democratic nominee for the first congressional district of Arkansas.
00:44:20 --> 00:44:23 Rodney, if people want to get involved with your campaign.
00:44:24 --> 00:44:27 It's going to be kind of the 11th hour when people hear this,
00:44:27 --> 00:44:33 but if people want to give a donation to you or help you out,
00:44:33 --> 00:44:36 just go ahead and let people know how they can do that.
00:44:36 --> 00:44:41 Yeah, we would be honored all the help that we can get. It's never too late.
00:44:41 --> 00:44:49 You can go to RodneyForCongress.org. That's R-O-D-N-E-Y-F-O-R-C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S.org.
00:44:50 --> 00:44:54 And you can see our website. You can see our videos when, you know,
00:44:54 --> 00:44:58 from all over the district, all 31 counties, including some videos from Mexico.
00:44:58 --> 00:45:02 When I visited the Border Patrol agents and asylum seekers down there,
00:45:02 --> 00:45:06 you can, you know, you can always donate. Of course, we've got our donate button
00:45:06 --> 00:45:10 there and you can always reach out to us via email at hello.
00:45:10 --> 00:45:15 That's H-E-L-L-O at Rodney for Congress dot O-R-G.
00:45:16 --> 00:45:20 Well, Brother Govins, I greatly appreciate you taking the time out of the campaign
00:45:20 --> 00:45:27 to talk to our listeners. And I wish you wish you much success on November the 5th.
00:45:27 --> 00:45:33 It sounds like to me that the state of Arkansas will will have a congressman
00:45:33 --> 00:45:38 that's really going to be looking out for them if if if if if they give you the chance.
00:45:38 --> 00:45:42 So I really I really wish you the best of luck on Election Day.
00:45:42 --> 00:45:47 I appreciate that, man. we uh we've got our we've got our hard work that we've
00:45:47 --> 00:45:48 done and we've got faith it just
00:45:49 --> 00:45:51 the season for change i cling to
00:45:51 --> 00:45:56 it it just feels it just has a different feeling around here in arkansas right
00:45:56 --> 00:46:00 now and we can't you know we look forward to continuing the work the work starts
00:46:00 --> 00:46:05 in two weeks it doesn't stop on election night it starts in two weeks so thank
00:46:05 --> 00:46:09 you so much for your time i appreciate you sir all right guys and we're going to catch y'all.
00:46:09 --> 00:46:28 Music.
00:46:30 --> 00:46:38 All right. And we are back. And so now it's time for my next guest, Miliana Vegas.
00:46:39 --> 00:46:45 Dr. Miliana Vegas has been highly recognized for her career working to inform
00:46:45 --> 00:46:49 education policy in the so-called global south.
00:46:49 --> 00:46:54 She has been a leading economist at the World Bank, Division Chief of Education
00:46:54 --> 00:47:00 at the Inter-American Bank, and co-director of the Center for Universal Education
00:47:00 --> 00:47:01 at the Brookings Institution.
00:47:02 --> 00:47:07 She is currently a professor of practice at the Harvard Graduate School of Education
00:47:07 --> 00:47:09 and lives in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
00:47:09 --> 00:47:14 Her new book, Let's Change the World, How to Work Within International Development
00:47:14 --> 00:47:21 Organizations to Make a Difference, was published by Roman and Littlefield in September of 2024.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:27 And so our discussion is going to be based off of this new book, Let's Change the World.
00:47:28 --> 00:47:32 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:47:32 --> 00:47:36 on this podcast, Dr. Emiliana Vegas.
00:47:36 --> 00:47:46 Music.
00:47:46 --> 00:47:52 All right. Dr. Emiliana Vegas. How are you doing, ma'am? You doing good?
00:47:53 --> 00:47:59 I'm doing great. Thank you. Well, I'm honored to have you on the podcast because
00:47:59 --> 00:48:02 you wrote this book about let's change the world.
00:48:02 --> 00:48:05 Right that that sounds optimistic
00:48:05 --> 00:48:09 you know so i
00:48:09 --> 00:48:14 wanted but there's a specific i guess so let me let me let me read the whole
00:48:14 --> 00:48:19 title it's called let's change the world how to work with international development
00:48:19 --> 00:48:25 organizations to make a difference so there's a specific strategy in you in
00:48:25 --> 00:48:29 how you feel that we can make this happen.
00:48:30 --> 00:48:34 So I usually start the interviews with a quote.
00:48:35 --> 00:48:40 So your quote is this, you can't connect the dots looking forward.
00:48:40 --> 00:48:42 You can only connect them looking backwards.
00:48:43 --> 00:48:47 So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future.
00:48:48 --> 00:48:50 You have to trust in something.
00:48:50 --> 00:48:54 Your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:59 This approach has never let me down and it has made all the difference in my
00:48:59 --> 00:49:01 life. What does that quote mean to you?
00:49:02 --> 00:49:11 Yeah, I think for me, it means that I always had some idea of what I wanted to do in the future.
00:49:11 --> 00:49:16 And, you know, I knew I wanted to have a career that would have impact on people,
00:49:16 --> 00:49:20 but I didn't know exactly how to do it. I had no role models.
00:49:21 --> 00:49:26 I didn't even know a lot about what graduate programs were out there.
00:49:26 --> 00:49:33 This is, you know, I grew up in the 70s and 80s and prior before the Internet age.
00:49:33 --> 00:49:39 And so getting information about educational trajectories and job trajectories was really difficult.
00:49:39 --> 00:49:44 And it's still not super clear, but there's a lot more out there now.
00:49:45 --> 00:49:49 And so I started out in college thinking that the way I would make a difference
00:49:49 --> 00:49:50 was through journalism.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:55 So kind of like what you're doing through writing and reporting.
00:49:55 --> 00:50:00 And I studied that as an undergraduate and I enjoyed a lot my studies.
00:50:00 --> 00:50:04 But when I graduated, I felt like I wasn't prepared, that I knew a little bit
00:50:04 --> 00:50:06 about a lot of things, but I didn't have depth.
00:50:07 --> 00:50:11 And so I came to the U.S. right after college in my home country of Venezuela,
00:50:12 --> 00:50:14 and I did a master's in public policy.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:18 And to be honest, I actually thought I was going to be on political science
00:50:18 --> 00:50:21 because back then in Venezuela, public policy didn't exist.
00:50:22 --> 00:50:29 And I actually loved the idea and the theories and social science of economics
00:50:29 --> 00:50:32 and how it applies to policy decisions.
00:50:32 --> 00:50:37 And I wanted to work. By then, I was clear that my focus would be education policy.
00:50:38 --> 00:50:42 And so, you know, who knew that I, again, after my master's,
00:50:42 --> 00:50:47 would feel again that I was not quite where I wanted to be in terms of the research
00:50:47 --> 00:50:50 I wanted to do and the influence and impact I wanted to have.
00:50:50 --> 00:50:55 So I came to Harvard University to the Graduate School of Education and got
00:50:55 --> 00:50:58 a PhD in education and then went out.
00:50:58 --> 00:51:01 And my goal was to be in academia, frankly.
00:51:01 --> 00:51:08 So I got trained to be in writing for researchers and high quality research.
00:51:08 --> 00:51:12 But that training, even though I didn't end up doing that, really helped me
00:51:12 --> 00:51:17 get the opportunity that opened doors for me, which was to enter the World Bank,
00:51:17 --> 00:51:23 one of the largest international development organizations in their research team originally,
00:51:23 --> 00:51:28 in their Young Professionals Program, which is a program that recruits about
00:51:28 --> 00:51:34 30 to 40 professionals under 32 years of age from all over the world to start
00:51:34 --> 00:51:37 a career in the World Bank.
00:51:37 --> 00:51:40 And they mentor you and they give you a lot of opportunities for professional
00:51:40 --> 00:51:42 development and growth.
00:51:42 --> 00:51:47 And one of the things that the program entails is And so you have one year and
00:51:47 --> 00:51:49 one assignment, which is your first assignment.
00:51:49 --> 00:51:53 And then the second year is in a second assignment. So I strategically chose
00:51:53 --> 00:51:59 my first assignment in the research department, still convinced that I wanted a career in academia.
00:52:00 --> 00:52:06 And I really was not excited about work. And so I, again, I had to rotate.
00:52:06 --> 00:52:10 So I ended up going to the Middle East and North Africa regions education team.
00:52:10 --> 00:52:14 And that's where I found sort of the right place for me, the right fit,
00:52:14 --> 00:52:20 which was doing research, yes, but applied and directed to a decision maker.
00:52:20 --> 00:52:25 So in this case, governments and ministries of education and finance that borrow
00:52:25 --> 00:52:30 money from institutions like the World Bank to improve lots of things like education,
00:52:30 --> 00:52:32 health, transportation, roads.
00:52:32 --> 00:52:37 And so I was working in education and I found it super rewarding after having
00:52:37 --> 00:52:42 spent, six years getting a PhD to actually apply the skills to help countries,
00:52:42 --> 00:52:47 in this case in the Middle East, improve the opportunities for their children through schooling.
00:52:48 --> 00:52:52 I didn't know I would end up staying at the World Bank this long and then moving
00:52:52 --> 00:52:57 to other international development organizations and spending 20 years or so in that field.
00:52:57 --> 00:53:02 And now I'm back in academia. So who knew? But I didn't plan it this way.
00:53:02 --> 00:53:06 And I've loved every step of the way. And I think part of the reason I wrote
00:53:06 --> 00:53:11 the book is that previous books written by former officials of these institutions
00:53:11 --> 00:53:15 tend to be very critical, very skeptical of the impact you can have.
00:53:16 --> 00:53:21 And I agree with some of the you know, difficulties and challenges,
00:53:21 --> 00:53:25 and let's call it as it is, dysfunctionalities of large bureaucracies,
00:53:25 --> 00:53:30 especially when you have a combination of technical and political aims.
00:53:31 --> 00:53:37 But I also found that if you have the right approach and the right focus,
00:53:37 --> 00:53:43 you can really make a difference and you can have a very fulfilling career. That's fun.
00:53:43 --> 00:53:46 So that's been in my experience well one
00:53:46 --> 00:53:49 of your one of your skill sets obviously is clairvoyance because
00:53:49 --> 00:53:54 you you already answered my next question so so
00:53:54 --> 00:53:59 instead of asking why did you write the book let me ask it this way why did
00:53:59 --> 00:54:04 you choose the style that you wrote the book because a lot of times when people
00:54:04 --> 00:54:10 are trying to make an argument especially from an academic side or or practical side,
00:54:10 --> 00:54:12 it's it's more technical.
00:54:12 --> 00:54:15 It's like, OK, this is what this organization does.
00:54:15 --> 00:54:21 And this is how you can apply these skill sets and all this kind of stuff.
00:54:22 --> 00:54:25 But your book is it has the technical aspects in it,
00:54:25 --> 00:54:32 but it's more like it's it's a combination of a technical book and a biography
00:54:32 --> 00:54:37 and a and like one of them Tony Robbins kind of inspirational books.
00:54:38 --> 00:54:42 Right. It's like it's you give it. Why did you choose to write it that way?
00:54:42 --> 00:54:44 Was it more natural for you to do it that way?
00:54:44 --> 00:54:48 Or why did you choose to write the book the way you do? You know,
00:54:48 --> 00:54:49 it's a really great question.
00:54:50 --> 00:54:54 I think in the last, so I wrote the book, I finished writing the book about
00:54:54 --> 00:55:00 a year ago, but I had been back in at Harvard teaching now young people who
00:55:00 --> 00:55:03 were very interested in entering this field.
00:55:04 --> 00:55:08 And I had lots of meetings where they would ask me questions and I would have
00:55:08 --> 00:55:13 a hard time explaining facts without weaving in personal anecdotes because the
00:55:13 --> 00:55:15 anecdotes bring facts to life.
00:55:16 --> 00:55:21 And so when I started writing the book, it was more autobiographical than it ended up being.
00:55:22 --> 00:55:25 And along the way, I discovered, like, I'm not that interesting of a person.
00:55:26 --> 00:55:29 Like, I'm not a famous person. Who's going to want to read my biography?
00:55:29 --> 00:55:34 What people really want is to get information that's useful for them.
00:55:34 --> 00:55:36 And that's why I really wanted to write the book.
00:55:36 --> 00:55:39 So it helped me a lot to clarify, like, who am I writing this book for?
00:55:39 --> 00:55:45 Why am I writing it? And it was really to help people like my students and others
00:55:45 --> 00:55:48 who don't have the role models like I didn't,
00:55:49 --> 00:55:55 don't really know what these institutions do and how many of them are there
00:55:55 --> 00:55:58 and what kinds of work they do to help them.
00:55:59 --> 00:56:01 You know, as my students would say, some of my students have said,
00:56:02 --> 00:56:03 it's like the hidden curriculum.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:08 This has never been written before. And so it took me years to...
00:56:09 --> 00:56:14 Understand the ins and outs. And I was very fortunate to have started,
00:56:14 --> 00:56:18 you know, relatively young and then, you know, climbed the corporate ladder,
00:56:18 --> 00:56:21 moved to a different institution in a pretty senior position,
00:56:22 --> 00:56:26 experienced what it was like to beat a team and all the challenges that go and
00:56:26 --> 00:56:32 opportunities to have impact when you actually have more people to share your vision with.
00:56:32 --> 00:56:37 And, you know, then went back to like a think tank, to Brookings,
00:56:37 --> 00:56:39 and realized this is a different type of organization.
00:56:39 --> 00:56:46 It doesn't have the access to governments that the global funders do,
00:56:46 --> 00:56:48 like the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank.
00:56:48 --> 00:56:53 But it has the credibility of being an independent think tank.
00:56:53 --> 00:56:56 And so it's very interesting for me to see, like, each of these gives you a
00:56:56 --> 00:56:59 great platform if you're a person like me who wants to have impact.
00:57:00 --> 00:57:04 So does Harvard, you know, frankly. So I've been very consistent in my career,
00:57:04 --> 00:57:09 and this is one of my main messages to my audiences is that,
00:57:09 --> 00:57:14 look, you don't need to have clarity about every step of your career.
00:57:14 --> 00:57:17 Where you want to be clear is what you want to achieve.
00:57:17 --> 00:57:23 You know, when all is said and done, what did you want to dedicate your life professionally for?
00:57:24 --> 00:57:27 And for me, that was really improving educational opportunity in low and middle
00:57:27 --> 00:57:32 income countries, particularly in Latin American, the Caribbean, my region of origin.
00:57:33 --> 00:57:37 And so every time I found myself in a position where I could do that,
00:57:37 --> 00:57:40 I would stay, I would, you know, continue working really hard, try to advance.
00:57:41 --> 00:57:44 And when I found that it was getting limited, I would look for other options.
00:57:44 --> 00:57:50 And so here I am, you know, having had multiple different experiences,
00:57:50 --> 00:57:58 but always really doing this work of trying to bring more and better evidence
00:57:58 --> 00:58:01 to inform education policy in developing countries.
00:58:02 --> 00:58:08 So explain to the listeners, what is international development?
00:58:09 --> 00:58:17 International development is basically a field of influence and work whose primary
00:58:17 --> 00:58:22 mission is to improve the livelihoods and development,
00:58:22 --> 00:58:27 economic development, and reduce poverty in low- and middle-income countries.
00:58:27 --> 00:58:33 So it's a field that was essentially born after World War II when many countries
00:58:33 --> 00:58:35 in Europe were completely destroyed.
00:58:36 --> 00:58:41 That's when the World Bank, and particularly the part of the World Bank called
00:58:41 --> 00:58:43 the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development,
00:58:44 --> 00:58:48 was created alongside the United Nations, the International Monetary Fund,
00:58:48 --> 00:58:53 and a whole set of agencies to do a couple of things.
00:58:53 --> 00:58:59 One was to help alleviate the impact of the war and reconstruct and rebuild,
00:59:00 --> 00:59:02 but also to help prevent future wars.
00:59:02 --> 00:59:06 So to help recognize that we are shared humanity around the globe and we need
00:59:06 --> 00:59:12 to find ways to live in peace and to, you know, share the prosperity.
00:59:12 --> 00:59:17 So the more advanced economies, rich countries like the U.S.
00:59:17 --> 00:59:20 And some of the European countries and some of the Asian countries contribute
00:59:20 --> 00:59:26 more resources to this institutional environment than do the poorer countries.
00:59:26 --> 00:59:31 Although the poorer countries also put in some resources to get access to the
00:59:31 --> 00:59:34 then financing and to get a seat at the table.
00:59:34 --> 00:59:42 So in the book, you talk about there's five main types of international development organizations.
00:59:44 --> 00:59:53 Elaborate on those and then kind of talk about which one that you have put your energy into. Sure.
00:59:53 --> 00:59:59 So the five broad types, and I say they're broad because I classified them by
00:59:59 --> 01:00:06 their main or primary mission or mandate, but they often do more than just that one mandate.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:10 So the first would be these global funders like the World Bank,
01:00:10 --> 01:00:14 the International Monetary Fund, the Inter-American Development Bank.
01:00:14 --> 01:00:17 There's an Asian Development Bank, an African Development Bank.
01:00:17 --> 01:00:22 So they're regional and international institutions, as well as bilateral, like the U.S.
01:00:22 --> 01:00:25 Agency for International Development would be in that category.
01:00:25 --> 01:00:27 And they are institutions that are...
01:00:28 --> 01:00:33 Whose primary mandate is to provide financial resources through loans and grants
01:00:33 --> 01:00:35 to low- and middle-income countries.
01:00:36 --> 01:00:42 But alongside that, they also provide technical assistance to inform those loans and grants, right?
01:00:42 --> 01:00:48 Second big type of international development organization is what I call advisors.
01:00:49 --> 01:00:53 So this would be a group, think tanks, non-governmental organizations.
01:00:54 --> 01:00:59 Research institutions that advise governments, and also for-profit consulting
01:00:59 --> 01:01:03 firms like the Big McKinsey's, Bain, etc.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:08 They also work to provide advice to governments directly, but also to international
01:01:08 --> 01:01:09 development organizations.
01:01:10 --> 01:01:16 The third is what I call conveners. So the main group of that or the main agency
01:01:16 --> 01:01:18 in that field would be the United Nations.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:23 And these are organizations whose primary mandate is really to bring together
01:01:23 --> 01:01:27 all the countries and governments and have them set agendas,
01:01:27 --> 01:01:31 share agendas, agree, make agreements on how to move forward as a collective.
01:01:31 --> 01:01:38 The fourth group is what I call implementers. And so these are organizations
01:01:38 --> 01:01:42 that actually have, you know, boots on the ground.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:48 So they are like UNICEF in education, Save the Children, organizations that are present.
01:01:48 --> 01:01:52 The World Food Program would be one there that are the first respondents,
01:01:52 --> 01:01:55 but also are permanently with teams in their countries.
01:01:56 --> 01:02:02 And so I said funder. And then finally, and importantly, more recently are the private philanthropy.
01:02:02 --> 01:02:07 So like the Gates Foundation, there's a Swiss Foundation that I'm part of their
01:02:07 --> 01:02:13 board, Jacobs, that does exclusively philanthropy in education all over the world.
01:02:13 --> 01:02:17 And so these institutions increasingly are playing a role, not just.
01:02:18 --> 01:02:21 Although they're very generous with their funding, but they also are very important
01:02:21 --> 01:02:25 in moving the agenda in certain directions.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:31 So I spent most of my career, yeah, just remember the second part of your question.
01:02:32 --> 01:02:38 I spent, I would say, the bulk of my career, 80% of it in global funders,
01:02:38 --> 01:02:40 the World Bank, the Inter-American Development Bank.
01:02:40 --> 01:02:46 But I also worked for about 10% of my career thus far, let's say,
01:02:46 --> 01:02:49 in the advisors and conveners.
01:02:49 --> 01:02:54 So I would say think tanks. I grew up Brookings, even though it is a think tank.
01:02:54 --> 01:02:56 It's also a big convening organization.
01:02:56 --> 01:03:01 A lot of what it does is hold events, bring together said agenda.
01:03:01 --> 01:03:05 And then now I'm in academia, so I kind of have done the spectrum.
01:03:06 --> 01:03:11 I have not, however, been in the implementer category.
01:03:11 --> 01:03:15 And I have a lot of respect for those
01:03:15 --> 01:03:18 international development officers and officials who
01:03:18 --> 01:03:21 work in on the ground trying to deliver programs you
01:03:21 --> 01:03:25 know hand in hand with governments and civil
01:03:25 --> 01:03:31 society organizations i think a lot of the policies and programs even what well-designed
01:03:31 --> 01:03:35 ones you know the proof is when they get implemented and often they don't get
01:03:35 --> 01:03:40 implemented as well as we would want yeah that's that's the boots on the ground
01:03:40 --> 01:03:42 is always kind of the hardest one.
01:03:44 --> 01:03:48 So from your experience which part
01:03:48 --> 01:03:52 of the world is the toughest which one
01:03:52 --> 01:03:55 will challenge your concept oh i can change the
01:03:55 --> 01:03:59 world and then you get there and it's like i don't know i don't
01:03:59 --> 01:04:04 know if i can really pull this off which part of the world presents the most
01:04:04 --> 01:04:09 challenges and and why do you think that is i would like to reframe your questions
01:04:09 --> 01:04:13 because i don't want to like blame a region because I think a lot of it has
01:04:13 --> 01:04:18 to do with historical factors and how, you know,
01:04:19 --> 01:04:22 such a countries were colonized and how they got independent.
01:04:23 --> 01:04:28 But I would say some of them, so there are two things that I found particularly
01:04:28 --> 01:04:30 hard in my own experience.
01:04:30 --> 01:04:37 One was when countries with very limited resources had a combination of,
01:04:38 --> 01:04:44 Let's say governments that were really not committed to improving the likelihoods
01:04:44 --> 01:04:49 of their own people were more interested in power and wealth for a few, let's say.
01:04:50 --> 01:04:57 And so that's a problem across many regions, including some advanced economies, sadly.
01:04:57 --> 01:05:03 But it's more, let's say, the weakness of institutions makes it more prevalent
01:05:03 --> 01:05:06 in low and middle income countries.
01:05:06 --> 01:05:13 And it creates a source of discontinuity in policies, challenges for really
01:05:13 --> 01:05:15 doing the right thing over time.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:19 I mean, you might get a leader once in a while that does want to do the right thing.
01:05:19 --> 01:05:23 But as soon as the elections happen or whatever, maybe not even an election
01:05:23 --> 01:05:27 or a military coup, everything's overturned.
01:05:27 --> 01:05:32 And the next, you know, regime is doing something completely different.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:36 And so that makes it really hard as an international development organization,
01:05:36 --> 01:05:40 because your mandate is to stay always there and help.
01:05:41 --> 01:05:45 But sometimes you kind of know that. I mean, early on and when I was before
01:05:45 --> 01:05:49 I even came to Harvard, right after my master's, when I did some missions to
01:05:49 --> 01:05:55 some with USAID projects to some sub-Saharan African countries.
01:05:55 --> 01:06:00 And I could see that the projects were ill, were not well designed to begin
01:06:00 --> 01:06:06 with. you know, things like delivering equipment without considering the changes
01:06:06 --> 01:06:07 in the voltage in a country.
01:06:08 --> 01:06:11 And so nothing would work. I mean, just really like poor design,
01:06:11 --> 01:06:15 but then also the implementation capacity was weak.
01:06:15 --> 01:06:20 And so I think those are really the hardest because I think with anything else you can work.
01:06:20 --> 01:06:23 You can work with like low resources, but committed individuals.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:26 You can work with, you know.
01:06:27 --> 01:06:32 Everything else. Like, I think it's when you find that, I think what most depressed
01:06:32 --> 01:06:33 me is when I saw two things.
01:06:34 --> 01:06:41 One was a belief, a mindset that you fundamentally cannot make things better.
01:06:41 --> 01:06:44 And that sometimes some government officials have that and some teachers,
01:06:44 --> 01:06:46 you know, in my field is education.
01:06:46 --> 01:06:53 So I'll say I've visited schools that we were supporting in very poor areas of certain countries.
01:06:53 --> 01:06:57 And after probing teachers as to why students weren't learning,
01:06:57 --> 01:07:01 the key answer was, you know, don't you see where they come from?
01:07:01 --> 01:07:02 Do you think these children can learn?
01:07:02 --> 01:07:08 And it was very frustrating and devastating, to be honest.
01:07:08 --> 01:07:12 And so I think, and yet I've seen countries at the same time,
01:07:12 --> 01:07:17 even the same country at times with very committed individuals doing amazing
01:07:17 --> 01:07:21 things, same resource environment. So it's all about people in the end.
01:07:21 --> 01:07:25 And I think That's also, I guess, a message in my book that you can focus on
01:07:25 --> 01:07:29 a lot of people in international development organizations who are just like
01:07:29 --> 01:07:30 development bureaucrats.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:34 That's kind of the, you know, they're just there to get paid,
01:07:34 --> 01:07:37 maybe to travel, get some of the perks of the job.
01:07:37 --> 01:07:39 They're not really committed to making a difference.
01:07:40 --> 01:07:43 And, you know, that's true of everything.
01:07:43 --> 01:07:50 I think the majority of us who go into this field have a real passion for it.
01:07:50 --> 01:07:54 I think sometimes over time you get discouraged by things that you see,
01:07:54 --> 01:07:58 like what I was describing, or by some of the own limitations that bureaucracies
01:07:58 --> 01:08:02 impose on you, because there's a lot of red tape that you have to go through.
01:08:02 --> 01:08:07 I mean, that's just what it is. But I always found ways to keep my,
01:08:08 --> 01:08:14 you know, focus on what I could do from my point in the bureaucracy to make
01:08:14 --> 01:08:17 a difference, whether it was directly with the country, whether it was with
01:08:17 --> 01:08:20 more junior people to help them along.
01:08:21 --> 01:08:22 Always trying to.
01:08:23 --> 01:08:28 You know, really, I am convinced, and as a teacher now, I see it every day,
01:08:28 --> 01:08:33 that you can be the best prepared teacher, but if you're not, if you don't care,
01:08:34 --> 01:08:36 you may be the most knowledgeable in your field, but if you don't care about
01:08:36 --> 01:08:40 what students learn and their own experiences and what they bring to the classroom,
01:08:40 --> 01:08:43 they're not going to listen to you and they're not going to get much out of you.
01:08:43 --> 01:08:49 And so, you know, sometimes when I started in this field, I felt very like imposter
01:08:49 --> 01:08:52 syndrome, like me, a professor at Harvard, like really?
01:08:53 --> 01:08:57 It's kind of a dream come true. And, you know, there are so many outstanding
01:08:57 --> 01:09:01 real experts at Harvard, of course, that it's intimidating.
01:09:01 --> 01:09:06 But I realized that my secret weapon is that I really care about people.
01:09:06 --> 01:09:09 I care about my students. I prepare like no one probably or like,
01:09:10 --> 01:09:13 you know, many of them do, especially at the ed school, prepare very well.
01:09:13 --> 01:09:18 But I certainly follow up in a way. I meet with the students. I make time for them.
01:09:19 --> 01:09:24 And I think that is my secret weapon. Yeah, I interviewed a friend of mine who's
01:09:24 --> 01:09:27 a political science professor at Ole Miss,
01:09:27 --> 01:09:35 and he basically said that he looks forward to every year because it's the students
01:09:35 --> 01:09:38 that give him the energy.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:42 And that's how he can deal with whatever is on the syllabus.
01:09:42 --> 01:09:47 He can cater it to basically the students coming in and getting their feedback
01:09:47 --> 01:09:52 and just to just to have the satisfaction of empowering them.
01:09:53 --> 01:09:58 Even if, you know, they don't agree with everything you might be saying or what
01:09:58 --> 01:10:04 your political philosophy is just to empower them to be able to articulate their
01:10:04 --> 01:10:07 own beliefs. He says that that gives them incredible gratification.
01:10:08 --> 01:10:14 So I assume that's the same with you as far as being able to to empower young
01:10:14 --> 01:10:17 people if they pursue this kind of work.
01:10:19 --> 01:10:26 Or I was really touched by the story when you talk to your advisor at Duke and
01:10:26 --> 01:10:30 you were telling the advisor, yeah, I think they made a mistake and let me in here.
01:10:30 --> 01:10:35 And that advisor reassured you is like, no, no, they they don't make mistakes like that.
01:10:35 --> 01:10:41 If you got in, you can make it. and you've been able to translate that to your students.
01:10:41 --> 01:10:46 I think that's powerful and I think that's why educators should always be held
01:10:46 --> 01:10:51 in a high regard because of the commitment that you, the good ones that are
01:10:51 --> 01:10:52 committed to what you do.
01:10:52 --> 01:10:59 And I can imagine in the original frame of the question, when you go to other
01:10:59 --> 01:11:03 countries and you see there are people that are not as committed.
01:11:04 --> 01:11:09 I know that can be, you've stated it as personally frustrating to you, so I get it.
01:11:10 --> 01:11:14 Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's the hardest because when people
01:11:14 --> 01:11:18 are not as skilled, you can help bring them along if they're committed.
01:11:18 --> 01:11:24 You know, when they believe their work can make a difference,
01:11:25 --> 01:11:29 then, you know, you can help them do better work because they're interested
01:11:29 --> 01:11:34 in doing it and they might just lack the capacity or the training or the resources.
01:11:34 --> 01:11:38 And so the amazing thing about international development is that you're in a
01:11:38 --> 01:11:42 position to build capacity, to provide financial resources,
01:11:42 --> 01:11:48 to to help expand people's horizons, because you're you sit in a place where
01:11:48 --> 01:11:50 people are working all over the world.
01:11:50 --> 01:11:56 So you're even at lunch, you're talking to someone who's been just in India
01:11:56 --> 01:11:59 and they face a similar challenge to, you know, where I was working in Brazil.
01:11:59 --> 01:12:04 And all of a sudden I'm like, okay, can I bring your Indian team to Brazil or
01:12:04 --> 01:12:06 can I bring the Brazilians to India?
01:12:07 --> 01:12:13 And those kinds of South learning exchanges, you can facilitate and broker and
01:12:13 --> 01:12:14 that's just such a privilege.
01:12:14 --> 01:12:19 So yeah, like I say, if you care, you can do amazing things.
01:12:20 --> 01:12:26 And these organizations are not perfect, but they are great platforms for people
01:12:26 --> 01:12:27 who want to change the world.
01:12:27 --> 01:12:38 So quickly explain the project cycle and why is it an important concept in development?
01:12:38 --> 01:12:42 So, wow, you're going really deep.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:46 So the project cycle is how,
01:12:47 --> 01:12:51 by kind of the bureaucratic rules and the agreements these governments have
01:12:51 --> 01:12:58 made, you get from an idea and a first conversation with a government of how you might support them.
01:12:58 --> 01:13:03 And then what's in the end, really a legal agreement that will allow the flow
01:13:03 --> 01:13:06 of funds and a project to actually happen, right?
01:13:06 --> 01:13:10 So the first thing is what we call identification.
01:13:10 --> 01:13:16 So this is where, you know, the government might have written your institution
01:13:16 --> 01:13:18 and said, hey, can we get a mission, they call it.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:23 So basically a team of experts come because we want your help in improving,
01:13:24 --> 01:13:27 I'm just going to say something, primary schooling. And so...
01:13:29 --> 01:13:34 It might take one or two missions to go down and sort of see what are the problems.
01:13:34 --> 01:13:39 You do, you know, a sector analysis, meaning you look at what is happening in
01:13:39 --> 01:13:43 primary education, how many kids are accessing it, what are they learning,
01:13:43 --> 01:13:48 what are teachers doing, what are the main constraints for them to achieve,
01:13:48 --> 01:13:51 let's say, high-quality primary schooling for all.
01:13:51 --> 01:13:55 And there might be things that, you know, they don't have enough teachers or
01:13:55 --> 01:13:57 they don't have good teacher training programs.
01:13:57 --> 01:14:02 So in identification, you come up and you go back to with the government sort
01:14:02 --> 01:14:07 of interactions, but internally, you prepare a project concept note.
01:14:07 --> 01:14:12 And that project concept note gets reviewed internally. And at that moment,
01:14:12 --> 01:14:17 you have a broad sense of how much money it will require and what will be some
01:14:17 --> 01:14:20 of the main areas of collaboration.
01:14:21 --> 01:14:26 But you don't have all the, you know, I's dotted and the T's crossed,
01:14:27 --> 01:14:31 right? Maybe you have a very basic, like, you know, the skeleton.
01:14:32 --> 01:14:35 Then you go back and you're going back in a preparation state.
01:14:35 --> 01:14:39 And this is when you're really working much more closely with the government
01:14:39 --> 01:14:44 and many experts that say that one of the constraints in the country is they
01:14:44 --> 01:14:48 don't have enough schools, physical buildings to house the students.
01:14:48 --> 01:14:53 So, you know, I have a doctorate in economics of education. I know nothing about
01:14:53 --> 01:14:57 infrastructure. So I might bring an engineer or an architect in my team and,
01:14:57 --> 01:15:02 you know, might hire a consultant or might find one within the bank to come with me and help me.
01:15:03 --> 01:15:07 Prepare what would be an infrastructure component and put some numbers to it
01:15:07 --> 01:15:10 and say, where are the needs? What part of the country?
01:15:10 --> 01:15:14 How are we, you know, how are the procurement processes going to work so that
01:15:14 --> 01:15:18 you are transparent and fair in how you allocate these public resources, etc.
01:15:19 --> 01:15:24 Again, you come back and this all can take, you know, between identification
01:15:24 --> 01:15:29 and preparation around nine months or so, at least, hopefully less,
01:15:30 --> 01:15:33 but governments always criticize the banks for being slow.
01:15:34 --> 01:15:37 But it takes a long time because you want to be very meticulous.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:42 And you also do some economic analysis of whether the investment that the government
01:15:42 --> 01:15:47 is requesting and the way you're designing it will actually be beneficial for the government,
01:15:47 --> 01:15:50 whether it will have positive and high economic returns.
01:15:50 --> 01:15:55 And so it takes a lot of work and a lot of analysis, a lot of conversations
01:15:55 --> 01:16:00 with the government, a lot of negotiations also, because sometimes they want one thing.
01:16:00 --> 01:16:04 And as an expert and as a technical person, you might think,
01:16:04 --> 01:16:08 okay, that's fine. You want to build schools, great. But that's not enough to achieve learning.
01:16:08 --> 01:16:11 We know that. So we need to train teachers. We need to think about the curriculum.
01:16:11 --> 01:16:14 We need to think about the daily experience of students at schools.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:16 And maybe they don't want to borrow money for that.
01:16:16 --> 01:16:20 But we know that if they just do business as usual in new buildings, it won't work.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:27 And so come back. Now we write the project document, no longer the concept note.
01:16:28 --> 01:16:32 It's now much more detailed. What is the project going to do?
01:16:32 --> 01:16:36 How much money the bank is going to lend? How much the government is going to
01:16:36 --> 01:16:38 also dedicate to the project?
01:16:38 --> 01:16:41 Every project costs, let's say, a certain amount.
01:16:41 --> 01:16:45 And there's a proportion of that as financed by the external funder,
01:16:45 --> 01:16:50 but there's a proportion that the government itself funds. And then after that,
01:16:50 --> 01:16:54 it's really a matter of getting approval from the.
01:16:55 --> 01:16:58 The governing board. So once you get the internal management approval,
01:16:59 --> 01:17:04 you get feedback, you revise the document, you go back to the government and
01:17:04 --> 01:17:08 say, you know, management said yes to this, or we need to change that. Do you agree?
01:17:08 --> 01:17:12 You negotiate a final kind of project document. And with that,
01:17:12 --> 01:17:16 you go to the board of the bank, the board of directors.
01:17:16 --> 01:17:19 These are the representatives of all the member countries.
01:17:19 --> 01:17:23 And I talk about how intimidating it might be the first time you sit at that
01:17:23 --> 01:17:26 table because you have your, you know, senior management,
01:17:26 --> 01:17:29 literally the president and vice president in one end of the table and then
01:17:29 --> 01:17:36 all these directors and their advisors sitting around the table and they can
01:17:36 --> 01:17:41 really ask a lot of questions and you are never prepared enough to all the random
01:17:41 --> 01:17:43 questions they might ask because in the end,
01:17:43 --> 01:17:46 you know, some of them know a lot about your sector and your country.
01:17:46 --> 01:17:49 Some of them know nothing and they still feel like they have to ask questions.
01:17:49 --> 01:17:52 I don't know. I still don't understand why they all felt like they were compelled to say something.
01:17:53 --> 01:17:58 And yeah, so after that, you're kind of, most cases, you get the approval to
01:17:58 --> 01:18:02 go ahead, and then you go to sort of work with the lawyers at that point,
01:18:03 --> 01:18:05 if not before, to draft the contract.
01:18:05 --> 01:18:09 And then that gets signed by usually the Ministry of Finance and some representative
01:18:09 --> 01:18:13 from the bank. And then you can start implementing, which is great.
01:18:13 --> 01:18:17 The bank doesn't implement, so the international funders don't implement.
01:18:17 --> 01:18:23 That's the government's role. But our role as partners in this is to support
01:18:23 --> 01:18:25 implementation and also to ensure,
01:18:25 --> 01:18:30 and this is why it's called supervision and support, the supervisory part is
01:18:30 --> 01:18:36 to have some controls over the resources and to make sure that what has been
01:18:36 --> 01:18:40 agreed is binding and so that the government cannot,
01:18:40 --> 01:18:45 for example, use the loans, the project funding to do something else, you know.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:48 So, and that implementation usually takes around.
01:18:49 --> 01:18:54 You know, four to five years, depending on the complexity of the program and
01:18:54 --> 01:18:55 the capacity of the government.
01:18:55 --> 01:19:00 And then at the end, you do an evaluation, an internal, like the team itself,
01:19:00 --> 01:19:03 like narrates and does a project completion report.
01:19:04 --> 01:19:09 Learning, you know, trying to describe what happened, but also draw some lessons
01:19:09 --> 01:19:13 that will be useful in future, similar projects of the institution.
01:19:13 --> 01:19:17 So if something went wrong, you want to be analytical about what went wrong,
01:19:17 --> 01:19:20 always something goes wrong. Nothing works in five years as you plan.
01:19:20 --> 01:19:21 So that's part of the process.
01:19:21 --> 01:19:26 And I think the institutions recognize that, you know, and ideally,
01:19:26 --> 01:19:30 and this is something that I wish we did more of is we don't wait until the
01:19:30 --> 01:19:34 end to actually evaluate what might have gone far, but we evaluate along the
01:19:34 --> 01:19:35 way as well to course correct.
01:19:36 --> 01:19:41 And then after that, you've closed your project cycle as a team leader, let's say.
01:19:42 --> 01:19:47 But then there, all of these institutions have what is called an independent
01:19:47 --> 01:19:51 evaluation agency, and they report directly to the board of directors.
01:19:51 --> 01:19:57 And they are also doing an exposed sort of detailed evaluation of a sample of
01:19:57 --> 01:20:03 projects to try and draw lessons that the institution can take for future operations.
01:20:03 --> 01:20:08 I mean, that's one of the nice things, I think, you know, really interesting
01:20:08 --> 01:20:12 things is that you're always trying to do the best you can, recognizing that
01:20:12 --> 01:20:14 it's a very complex world out there,
01:20:15 --> 01:20:19 that the challenges are enormous, and that you're often not going to get it perfectly right.
01:20:20 --> 01:20:25 And so learning from how things are going and what you could have done better
01:20:25 --> 01:20:27 is always important for the next round.
01:20:28 --> 01:20:33 Yeah, so the method to my madness in asking that question is I want the listeners
01:20:33 --> 01:20:39 to understand that, you know, a lot of times in America, when we want something
01:20:39 --> 01:20:42 done, we ask our government to do this.
01:20:42 --> 01:20:49 And, you know, we have our own form, I guess, internally when people write grants
01:20:49 --> 01:20:57 to government agencies or nonprofit foundations, you know, to implement programs throughout.
01:20:58 --> 01:21:02 People want, but in America, people want instant gratification,
01:21:02 --> 01:21:06 right? And I assume that's a human trait worldwide.
01:21:06 --> 01:21:12 So, you know, I wanted you to go through the steps because when I was reading it, I was like,
01:21:13 --> 01:21:17 all right, so best case scenario, once you initiate a project,
01:21:17 --> 01:21:25 you really won't know, or you really won't see any tangible results for almost like a decade.
01:21:25 --> 01:21:30 And so, you know, So when when people when when you decide that you're going
01:21:30 --> 01:21:36 to tackle a problem, it needs to be understood that this is a commitment for a long time.
01:21:36 --> 01:21:40 This is not like a quick fix kind of situation that you've got to go through
01:21:40 --> 01:21:43 all these steps to make sure you do it right now.
01:21:43 --> 01:21:48 If you if you do what you want to do and are able to course correct,
01:21:48 --> 01:21:55 that might narrow the time window and it might achieve greater results, positive results.
01:21:56 --> 01:22:01 But I just wanted listeners to understand that when you identify a problem,
01:22:01 --> 01:22:06 you can't get it fixed like the next day because it wasn't it didn't take just
01:22:06 --> 01:22:09 one day for the problem to be created. Number one.
01:22:09 --> 01:22:12 But if you put the right resource and right commitment in there,
01:22:13 --> 01:22:20 you know, best case scenarios, you know, a generation before you actually see some improvement.
01:22:20 --> 01:22:27 So I appreciate you with that exercise. All right, so let's close this out.
01:22:29 --> 01:22:34 Can I say something about that before you close it up? I found it really interesting
01:22:34 --> 01:22:41 because, you know, there's two risks to kind of investing in the right things
01:22:41 --> 01:22:43 over time that you need to do.
01:22:43 --> 01:22:47 One has to do with the impatience of people. The other thing has to do with political cycles.
01:22:48 --> 01:22:52 So governments also want to see results that will influence, you know, voters.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:59 And so they're also impatient. And I worked a lot in South America and Chile,
01:22:59 --> 01:23:01 and it's an upper middle income country.
01:23:01 --> 01:23:06 It's recently joined the OECD, the group of rich countries in the world.
01:23:06 --> 01:23:10 And often when they borrowed from the World Bank or the IDB,
01:23:10 --> 01:23:15 the reason they did it was that their political cycles are four years.
01:23:15 --> 01:23:21 So by the time the project starts implementing, they are in an election.
01:23:21 --> 01:23:24 And they would want to have that continuity. And so at times,
01:23:25 --> 01:23:28 the International Development Organization actually is a resource to provide
01:23:28 --> 01:23:35 continuity across different, let's say, political governments or political administrations.
01:23:35 --> 01:23:39 And that's also a role that I actually don't mention as much in the book,
01:23:39 --> 01:23:42 but that's an important role that we play. We give that continuity.
01:23:42 --> 01:23:47 Yeah, yeah. And that's important. And like like I said, it's that that impatience
01:23:47 --> 01:23:49 and that political expediency.
01:23:49 --> 01:23:53 That's that's not just an American concept. That's a human concept worldwide.
01:23:55 --> 01:24:02 So closing out, what advice would you give young people that want to get into this work?
01:24:03 --> 01:24:08 And what kind of strategy?
01:24:08 --> 01:24:14 If somebody says, I want to do what Dr. Vegas does, she's an inspiration to
01:24:14 --> 01:24:15 me. I want to get out there.
01:24:15 --> 01:24:19 What would you tell that young person?
01:24:19 --> 01:24:25 I would say work hard on your analytical skills. I think a lot of the work,
01:24:25 --> 01:24:29 as I described, is really understanding difficult problems, documenting them
01:24:29 --> 01:24:33 well, and analyzing alternatives in a systematic way.
01:24:33 --> 01:24:37 So a lot of what economists do, but not only economists.
01:24:38 --> 01:24:41 Political scientists, sociologists, sort of social scientists,
01:24:41 --> 01:24:48 is really apply, you know, techniques and methods and theories to try and predict
01:24:48 --> 01:24:51 outcomes based on different alternatives.
01:24:51 --> 01:24:55 And so as a decision maker, a government official, you know,
01:24:55 --> 01:25:00 the best type of staff you can have is someone who can have done that homework for you.
01:25:01 --> 01:25:03 And that's the same thing you do in international development organizations
01:25:03 --> 01:25:08 is you kind of like tell a government, look, I know I've analyzed your problems.
01:25:08 --> 01:25:12 I see where the key constraints to your making progress in this area.
01:25:13 --> 01:25:17 I studied the world. You know, I've looked at countries that face similar problems
01:25:17 --> 01:25:22 or face them in the past, looked at the evidence, and this is my recommendation.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:26 And so, but you do it in a rigorous and compelling way. So that's one thing.
01:25:27 --> 01:25:33 The second thing is, you know, do a lot of communicating, communicating for
01:25:33 --> 01:25:35 policy audiences, for decision makers.
01:25:35 --> 01:25:40 It's very different when you're like in a liberal arts degree and you're writing
01:25:40 --> 01:25:47 papers for school that are very nicely written and narrative style and with fancy words.
01:25:47 --> 01:25:51 That gets you inane maybe in college. But when you go to the real world,
01:25:51 --> 01:25:55 at least in the policy cycle, you don't want fancy words that nobody understands.
01:25:55 --> 01:25:57 You don't want to use technical jargon.
01:25:57 --> 01:26:01 You want to be very direct, very clear, have the decision maker,
01:26:01 --> 01:26:05 who oftentimes is not a technical expert. Most often they're politicians.
01:26:06 --> 01:26:10 Understand the substance of your work. And so really, that's a different way
01:26:10 --> 01:26:15 of communicating if you want to have effect and change people's minds.
01:26:16 --> 01:26:20 And then the third thing is really, if you can, have some experience abroad,
01:26:21 --> 01:26:21 learn a different language.
01:26:22 --> 01:26:26 A lot of the things I think helped me was that I was a native Spanish speaker.
01:26:26 --> 01:26:32 I was fluent in English and studied in the US, but I also had been curious and I had learned French.
01:26:33 --> 01:26:38 And so that ability of knowing three of the languages that are most common in
01:26:38 --> 01:26:40 the work of international development organizations.
01:26:40 --> 01:26:44 They're not the only ones, of course, but they're ones that allow you to work
01:26:44 --> 01:26:48 across most of Sub-Saharan Africa, East Asia, South Asia, and Latin America.
01:26:48 --> 01:26:51 So that's pretty good.
01:26:51 --> 01:26:54 And yeah, I think those are them. And then finally, you know.
01:26:55 --> 01:27:00 Try to find people who are working now in the field, connect with them, try to learn from them.
01:27:00 --> 01:27:04 There's lots of opportunities, especially for college and graduate students
01:27:04 --> 01:27:09 for internships in the summer and in the winter and all of these organizations.
01:27:09 --> 01:27:12 And then there's a lot of openings for consultants. You know,
01:27:12 --> 01:27:15 I just got one from a former colleague at the World Bank.
01:27:15 --> 01:27:19 They want someone to help in a foundational literacy and numeracy program.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:22 And that entails research, but also program design.
01:27:22 --> 01:27:26 And so it's great opportunity for many of my students.
01:27:27 --> 01:27:30 So that would be, in a nutshell, my recommendation.
01:27:31 --> 01:27:37 Right. And if y'all want to get more info on that, if you're a young person,
01:27:37 --> 01:27:39 I suggest you get this book by Dr.
01:27:39 --> 01:27:45 Emiliana Vegas called Let's Change the World, How to Work with International
01:27:45 --> 01:27:47 Development Organizations to Make a Difference.
01:27:48 --> 01:27:52 If people want to get the book, Doc, how can they do that?
01:27:52 --> 01:27:57 And how can they get in touch with you if they want you to come and speak or whatever?
01:27:57 --> 01:28:02 Oh, thanks for that. So I have a website. You can get in touch with me there,
01:28:02 --> 01:28:04 both at Harvard and my personal one.
01:28:04 --> 01:28:09 So my personal one is EmilianaVegas.com. And at Harvard, if you type Emiliana
01:28:09 --> 01:28:12 Vegas Harvard, you'll find me, email and all.
01:28:12 --> 01:28:18 And the book is now being sold in most major online bookstores like Amazon,
01:28:18 --> 01:28:21 Barnes & Noble, bookshop.org.
01:28:21 --> 01:28:26 And I'm trying very hard to get it into bookstores, especially in university
01:28:26 --> 01:28:31 towns with my editors, because I think a lot of people come by to visit and
01:28:31 --> 01:28:34 they want to get it and they're having a hard time getting it from Amazon.
01:28:34 --> 01:28:40 So, you know, when they come just to visit and give a talk, even more senior people want to read it.
01:28:41 --> 01:28:46 All right. Well, Dr. Vegas, I greatly appreciate you coming on the podcast.
01:28:48 --> 01:28:54 I appreciate the way that you wrote this book. I think in this time that we
01:28:54 --> 01:28:59 need more encouragement to do the work that needs to be done,
01:28:59 --> 01:29:02 whether it's here in the United States or across the globe.
01:29:02 --> 01:29:09 So I greatly appreciate your dedication to education. I greatly appreciate you
01:29:09 --> 01:29:14 writing this book and sharing your experience, personal and professional.
01:29:15 --> 01:29:20 And again, thank you for coming on the podcast. much success thank you thank
01:29:20 --> 01:29:24 you for having me it's been really a pleasure speaking with you yes ma'am all
01:29:24 --> 01:29:26 right guys and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:29:28 --> 01:29:38 Music.
01:29:38 --> 01:29:46 All right and we are back so i want to thank rodney govins for coming on the
01:29:46 --> 01:29:52 show really taking time out of campaigning because I know how hard that is.
01:29:53 --> 01:30:00 And to be able to schedule the show and make an appeal at the 11th hour to get
01:30:00 --> 01:30:04 people to vote for you is really, really challenging and stuff.
01:30:04 --> 01:30:06 And but I'm glad that he was able to do that.
01:30:07 --> 01:30:11 And I'm glad that y'all were able to hear him and understand that there are
01:30:11 --> 01:30:16 good people running that are about government and not entertainment.
01:30:17 --> 01:30:20 And so I really wish him success.
01:30:21 --> 01:30:26 In his endeavor, I'll be watching. And now that I have met him.
01:30:28 --> 01:30:32 You know, regardless of the results, I want to follow him.
01:30:33 --> 01:30:37 I am hoping that the people of Arkansas do the right thing and vote for him,
01:30:37 --> 01:30:40 but especially in that first congressional district.
01:30:40 --> 01:30:47 But either way, I think this is a brother that's going to be doing great things, whether it's in D.C.
01:30:47 --> 01:30:50 Or in his in his home state.
01:30:51 --> 01:30:54 So I'm really glad that I had a chance to get him on the podcast.
01:30:55 --> 01:30:59 And, you know, writing for Congress dot org.
01:31:00 --> 01:31:05 If y'all want to help him out in this last stage.
01:31:05 --> 01:31:13 And to be honest, you know, regardless of the results of the election, campaigns cause money.
01:31:14 --> 01:31:17 And, you know, if y'all want to help him knock out some of that debt that he
01:31:17 --> 01:31:20 may have incurred one way or the other.
01:31:20 --> 01:31:23 Feel free to go to the website and help the brother out.
01:31:24 --> 01:31:31 And then I also want to thank Dr. Miliana Vegas for coming on.
01:31:33 --> 01:31:37 And we had recently just connected and then on LinkedIn.
01:31:38 --> 01:31:44 And so it was really, really good to be able to get her on the podcast to talk
01:31:44 --> 01:31:46 about her new book, Let's Change the World.
01:31:46 --> 01:31:51 I mean, why wouldn't you want somebody on the podcast that wants to change the
01:31:51 --> 01:31:53 world, right, for the better?
01:31:54 --> 01:31:58 So I'm really, really glad that she was able to come on.
01:31:58 --> 01:32:07 And I am, like I told her in an interview, I am really, really thankful for people like her that.
01:32:08 --> 01:32:14 Are committed to educating young people. You know, my mom was an educator.
01:32:14 --> 01:32:21 I briefly taught, and I always hold educators in high esteem.
01:32:21 --> 01:32:27 I just, you know, it's one of the most, if not the most noble profession out there.
01:32:28 --> 01:32:32 Some philosophers said that public service was the greatest aim of mankind,
01:32:32 --> 01:32:40 and I bought into that, and that's why I got into politics. But, education is so vital.
01:32:41 --> 01:32:48 And if this election hasn't taught you that, I don't know what else would be
01:32:48 --> 01:32:54 a better argument about education. So I'm glad that my guests were able to come on.
01:32:55 --> 01:33:02 And as I stated, when this podcast drops, it'll be election E.
01:33:03 --> 01:33:09 And I hope that you, if you had a chance in your state to early vote,
01:33:09 --> 01:33:14 I hope that you've already done that. If not, I need you to show up on Election Day and vote.
01:33:16 --> 01:33:20 You know, and I'll be glad when this phase is over.
01:33:20 --> 01:33:26 We're coming down to the homestretch and it's always going to be hectic and tense.
01:33:28 --> 01:33:33 But, you know, and you're always glad if you're in the political game where
01:33:33 --> 01:33:37 you're a candidate or just somebody that follows it, you really look forward
01:33:37 --> 01:33:41 to Election Day because it's the culmination, right?
01:33:42 --> 01:33:47 So you're glad that that's over with. And, you know, hopefully,
01:33:48 --> 01:33:51 you know, the candidate that you support wins. And in my case,
01:33:51 --> 01:33:57 I pray that Vice President Harris wins the election.
01:33:57 --> 01:34:03 And we may not know definitively who won, you know, for a couple of days because
01:34:03 --> 01:34:06 we got to make sure all the votes are counted and all that.
01:34:06 --> 01:34:08 But just my hunch, y'all.
01:34:09 --> 01:34:15 And, you know, I think that's, you know, that's the outcome that's going to
01:34:15 --> 01:34:19 happen. But I need y'all to vote to make sure that outcome happens.
01:34:20 --> 01:34:29 But now based on the other person running, we still got a silly season to go.
01:34:29 --> 01:34:34 We're still going to have all these challenges for no reason,
01:34:35 --> 01:34:39 you know, especially if the outcome goes to where I think it is.
01:34:39 --> 01:34:47 He's going to claim that there was fraud involved because his ego does not allow him to accept defeat.
01:34:48 --> 01:34:56 And so we'll be dealing with the news cycle will be filled with lawsuits and
01:34:56 --> 01:35:02 challenges and accusations and all this stuff until January 20th, 2025.
01:35:03 --> 01:35:07 Yeah, so over your Thanksgiving holiday, over your Christmas holiday,
01:35:08 --> 01:35:17 Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, forgive me in the Muslim community, I forget the holiday
01:35:17 --> 01:35:19 that you'll be celebrating at the same time.
01:35:20 --> 01:35:24 I know, I kind of know it, but I don't want to mispronounce it.
01:35:24 --> 01:35:30 So let's say holiday season, you know, while you'll be thinking about turkey and gifts.
01:35:33 --> 01:35:38 Football, basketball, and, you know, what movies you're going to check out,
01:35:38 --> 01:35:43 kind of family time you're going to have, you're still going to have this foolishness
01:35:43 --> 01:35:49 going on because somebody can't accept defeat, you know.
01:35:49 --> 01:35:56 And if for some reason it's reversed, there's going to be some angst in the community.
01:35:59 --> 01:36:05 But, you know, and then, you know, concerns about is this dude going to do what
01:36:05 --> 01:36:07 we were afraid he was going to do?
01:36:07 --> 01:36:12 Right. And strategies being developed to counter whatever he tries to do.
01:36:12 --> 01:36:15 But I don't think that's going to happen. I think we're going to be dealing
01:36:15 --> 01:36:21 with the lawsuits and not accepting defeat from the previous president.
01:36:22 --> 01:36:24 So I'm just telling you, I'll be
01:36:24 --> 01:36:29 ready for it. I'm debating about whether having a show or not next week.
01:36:30 --> 01:36:34 You know, and if I do, I'm probably just going to have some folks that have
01:36:34 --> 01:36:37 been on the show before to kind of talk about what happened.
01:36:38 --> 01:36:40 Or I'll just talk about what happened. It all depends.
01:36:42 --> 01:36:45 But I'll be interested to see what happens Tuesday.
01:36:47 --> 01:36:55 And if my hunch about the American electorate is correct, because I don't think
01:36:55 --> 01:36:57 it's as close as people are making it to be.
01:36:57 --> 01:37:01 If it is, okay. But I don't think it is.
01:37:02 --> 01:37:05 I just think that we're at
01:37:05 --> 01:37:08 a point now in American history where it's time
01:37:08 --> 01:37:10 for us to literally turn the page and
01:37:10 --> 01:37:18 move forward and get back to governing and get to a point where we're working
01:37:18 --> 01:37:27 on solutions and the United States reasserting its role as the clear voice and
01:37:27 --> 01:37:29 a clear example of democracy.
01:37:30 --> 01:37:37 And hoping that this election will send a message to the leadership and here
01:37:37 --> 01:37:43 and to the world that we're about to approach things a little different.
01:37:43 --> 01:37:49 And we really want to see a world where everybody has a fair shot.
01:37:50 --> 01:37:54 Not everybody's going to listen to us, you know, because they're humans and
01:37:54 --> 01:38:00 they have pride and their culture and all that stuff. But it's time for us to
01:38:00 --> 01:38:03 do that and do it in not an imperialistic way.
01:38:04 --> 01:38:11 I think we can be the voice of reason without being heavy handed about it.
01:38:12 --> 01:38:18 And I think this new generation of leadership that will emerge on November the
01:38:18 --> 01:38:25 5th, 2024, will set the pattern for that and hopefully for generations to come.
01:38:27 --> 01:38:34 But, you know, this is now the second presidential cycle this podcast has gone through.
01:38:35 --> 01:38:40 And, you know, I hope that along that way,
01:38:40 --> 01:38:45 those of you who have listened and been faithful to the podcast have been encouraged
01:38:45 --> 01:38:52 that whenever I did vent and whenever I was angry,
01:38:52 --> 01:38:57 that it allowed you to say, yeah, that's how I'm feeling. Right.
01:38:58 --> 01:39:04 But for the most part, I hope that you realize that despite all of the foolishness,
01:39:05 --> 01:39:08 all of the people that are about clickbait and entertainment,
01:39:09 --> 01:39:13 that there are people out here that are really trying to make a difference to
01:39:13 --> 01:39:18 really trying to make our country and our world a better place.
01:39:19 --> 01:39:24 And that it gives you hope that we can get there.
01:39:25 --> 01:39:30 It's never an overnight solution, no matter what the issue is.
01:39:30 --> 01:39:36 It's a matter of commitment. I love Dr.
01:39:36 --> 01:39:41 Corte quoting Dr. Karanga,
01:39:43 --> 01:39:46 Because the two elements is commitment and consciousness.
01:39:47 --> 01:39:54 I'm glad that was uplifted on this podcast. And because really, that's what it is.
01:39:55 --> 01:40:01 We have to have a consciousness to make this world better.
01:40:01 --> 01:40:05 And then we have to have a commitment to follow through.
01:40:07 --> 01:40:10 I just, you know, that's really, really powerful.
01:40:12 --> 01:40:17 And my goal with this podcast is to continue to do that,
01:40:17 --> 01:40:24 continue to create that consciousness and give you the encouragement to be committed
01:40:24 --> 01:40:30 in making sure that we achieve what needs to be achieved for people in this country.
01:40:30 --> 01:40:38 And around the globe to be all that they can be and not have government be an
01:40:38 --> 01:40:45 impediment or impediment, however you want to say it, toward that goal.
01:40:45 --> 01:40:51 Government should be the assist. Government should be the protector of rights
01:40:51 --> 01:41:02 and the facilitator to make sure that every citizen is allowed to live and live abundantly, right?
01:41:04 --> 01:41:14 So, yeah, I do want to say one thing, and this is addressing people who think
01:41:14 --> 01:41:19 that in order to gain something in life, you have to destroy something else.
01:41:21 --> 01:41:29 Life is not a zero-sum game. Those of us who are practitioners of faith understand
01:41:29 --> 01:41:34 that there are struggles, but those struggles build character within us.
01:41:35 --> 01:41:40 And even though we don't like to struggle, even though the struggle is very
01:41:40 --> 01:41:41 inconvenient and very uncomfortable,
01:41:43 --> 01:41:45 All we got to do is make it to the other side.
01:41:47 --> 01:41:52 And when we get to the other side, there's a reward for that.
01:41:52 --> 01:41:55 And I'm not talking about an afterlife reward.
01:41:55 --> 01:42:02 I'm talking about during our existence in this plane that we achieve a reward.
01:42:03 --> 01:42:04 We've gone through a trial.
01:42:05 --> 01:42:08 And once you go through a trial, then when the next one happens,
01:42:08 --> 01:42:14 you have confidence. You have a belief that if I got through that last one,
01:42:14 --> 01:42:16 I can get through this one, right?
01:42:17 --> 01:42:20 But you don't have to tear anybody down to achieve anything.
01:42:22 --> 01:42:25 You don't have to say that people are garbage.
01:42:26 --> 01:42:33 You don't have to say that countries are garbage. You don't have to deny people
01:42:33 --> 01:42:36 rights so you can have rights.
01:42:36 --> 01:42:40 You don't have to oppress other people so you can live comfortably.
01:42:40 --> 01:42:44 We all can coexist in this world.
01:42:45 --> 01:42:52 Your judgment of somebody's lifestyle is not necessary for a society to function.
01:42:54 --> 01:43:00 People, if they are allowed to live their lives and those lives are productive,
01:43:01 --> 01:43:06 then all it will do is benefit society, period.
01:43:07 --> 01:43:13 We're, you know, we're not trying to duly influence in a sense,
01:43:13 --> 01:43:16 you know, other people's behavior.
01:43:16 --> 01:43:20 Right. But we do want to encourage people to be on their best behavior.
01:43:21 --> 01:43:29 Government can't legislate morality, but we hope that in your socioeconomic
01:43:29 --> 01:43:35 environment that you gain a sense of morality, whether it's through faith,
01:43:35 --> 01:43:39 through common core beliefs in your home or whatever,
01:43:40 --> 01:43:43 that doing the right thing is your primary goal.
01:43:45 --> 01:43:51 So, you know, you don't have to hate me because I'm black to get where you got to go.
01:43:51 --> 01:43:57 You don't have to hate me because I'm cisgender to get where you got to go.
01:43:59 --> 01:44:02 All you've got to do is do what's best for you.
01:44:03 --> 01:44:10 And in turn, if your heart desires to do something good for the community in the process.
01:44:11 --> 01:44:15 Now everybody's going to have billionaire money, but give what you can.
01:44:16 --> 01:44:22 Not everybody is going to have the luxury of time, but do what you can.
01:44:24 --> 01:44:35 But by all means, stop teaching people to hate and stop teaching people to be judgmental of others.
01:44:35 --> 01:44:40 It's hard. It's almost a natural instinct.
01:44:40 --> 01:44:48 But we're different. We're human beings. We have been given the ability to reason.
01:44:49 --> 01:44:53 That's the difference between us and any other creature on this planet.
01:44:53 --> 01:44:58 We have the ability to reason, and we have the ability to self-regulate.
01:45:00 --> 01:45:05 And if you don't have that moral compass, please get it.
01:45:06 --> 01:45:13 It's not too late to get it. And the easiest way is just stop hating, folks.
01:45:14 --> 01:45:22 You know you can be frustrated with people you can be angry at people but don't hate them,
01:45:23 --> 01:45:29 you know they are who they are and the same for those of us of faith the same
01:45:29 --> 01:45:31 God that created us created them,
01:45:32 --> 01:45:40 so you have to tolerate them you have to love them you just have to and I think
01:45:40 --> 01:45:45 the more the minute that we accept that the better off we'll be.
01:45:46 --> 01:45:52 And we can navigate through any crisis, through any challenge.
01:45:53 --> 01:45:58 All right. So if you haven't voted yet, if you didn't take advantage of early
01:45:58 --> 01:46:01 voting, go vote on November the 5th on Tuesday.
01:46:03 --> 01:46:07 And again, thank you all for listening. Until next time.
01:46:08 --> 01:46:55 Music.
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