American Shield, PoliSci, & Black Voters Matter Featuring Aquilino Gonell, Marvin King, and Alexis Buchanan Thomas

[00:00:00] Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of a Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.

[00:00:07] I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast. If you like what you're hearing,

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[00:01:05] Thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time. I hope you enjoyed this episode as well.

[00:01:19] Hello and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.

[00:01:41] I am 59 years old. I am 59 years old. Oh wow. That's interesting and I'll leave it at that.

[00:01:56] We have a great show for you. This is going to be a powerful show.

[00:02:03] I just really, really am honored that the people that have come on, couple of guests I met for the first time doing the interview.

[00:02:20] They are powerful people and one brother who I have known for quite a while and was really glad to be able to touch the base with him and have him come on.

[00:02:33] I hope that you all enjoy it. I think that you all will really get something out of this particular podcast.

[00:02:43] But as always, before we get started, it's time for a moment of news with Grace G.

[00:02:51] Thanks, Erik.

[00:02:57] President Joe Biden said the U.S. will respond after a deadly drone attack in Jordan by a runbacked militants killed three U.S. soldiers and wounded 40.

[00:03:07] Alabama executed Kenneth Smith using nitrogen gas, marking the first execution by this method in the United States.

[00:03:15] Civil rights activists failed to persuade a federal appeals court to reconsider a ruling that may limit lawsuits enforcing racial discrimination protections under Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act.

[00:03:26] A Reuters Ipsos poll shows Donald Trump leading President Biden by six percentage points with 40% to Biden's 34%.

[00:03:35] A Manhattan jury ordered Donald Trump to pay $83.3 million to E. Jean Carroll who accused him of defamation by denying her rape allegation.

[00:03:45] President Biden described a border security deal as the toughest and fairest amid critical Senate negotiations, while House Speaker Mike Johnson said the deal is dead on arrival.

[00:03:57] Donald Trump joined a co-defendants effort to disqualify Fulton County District Attorney Fanny Willis from his Georgia election interference case, alleging she injected race into the case.

[00:04:08] Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor, has been sentenced to four months in prison for contempt of Congress related to the January 6, 2021 Capitol attack investigation.

[00:04:19] U.S. federal prosecutors charged 195 people across 10 states with drug trafficking, including a narcotics ring operated by a California prison inmate.

[00:04:30] The U.S. Justice Department concurred with findings that former New York governor Andrew Cuomo violated federal law by sexually harassing employees.

[00:04:39] The U.S. House Committee on Ethics dropped an inquiry into representative Jamal Bowman's fire alarm incident after a censure and guilty plea.

[00:04:47] A former IRS contractor was sentenced to five years in prison for unlawfully leaking tax records, including those of Donald Trump.

[00:04:56] And the FBI reports that one in 10 U.S. hate crimes occurs at educational institutions, with black, Jewish and LGBTQ students as common targets.

[00:05:07] I am Grace G., and this has been a Moment of News.

[00:05:19] Alright, thank you Grace for that moment of news.

[00:05:25] And now it is time for our first guest.

[00:05:29] And this is a major deal.

[00:05:37] Now, you know, I have been very fortunate to have great guests on this podcast.

[00:05:44] And I, but you know it's kind of one of those things where you know when you meet somebody that you can relate to on a lot of different levels.

[00:06:01] And then realize that they're heroic at the same time.

[00:06:11] So without further ado, let me introduce Sergeant Aculino Gnau.

[00:06:17] Aculino Gnau came to the United States from the Dominican Republic as a young boy.

[00:06:23] Although he spoke New English, he dedicated himself to his adopted land, striving for the American Dream.

[00:06:29] Determined to be a success story, joined the Army to pay for college.

[00:06:33] He saw action in Iraq and returned home with PTSD.

[00:06:37] Believing in the promise of our government, he focused on healing himself and supporting his family.

[00:06:42] His hard work paid off when he landed a coveted position with the United States Capitol Police and rose to the rank of Sergeant.

[00:06:50] January 6, 2021 changed everything.

[00:06:54] When insurrection is stormed to Capitol, Gnau bravely faced down the mob attempting to thwart the peaceful transfer of power.

[00:07:01] The brutal injuries he sustained at day would end his career in law enforcement.

[00:07:05] But when some of the very people he put his life on a line to protect downplayed or denied the truth of that day,

[00:07:12] he chose to speak out against the injustice done to him in the country.

[00:07:17] Chronically, excuse me what it means to live a life of conviction.

[00:07:24] One that adheres to the best ideas of our democracy, his new book, American Shield, is a bold testament to the power of true justice and accountability from a highly decorated officer in immigrant who exemplifies the greatest aspirations of a grateful nation.

[00:07:42] Ladies and gentlemen, it is the distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Sergeant Aculino Gnau.

[00:07:53] Alright, Aculino Gnau. I hope I didn't butcher that too well Sergeant. How you doing?

[00:08:13] I'm doing good and you said it good enough.

[00:08:20] Alright, so first of all, let me just thank you for coming on the podcast.

[00:08:28] It is really an honor to have somebody that literally can have the word hero apply to them.

[00:08:38] You and the other men and women that served in the Capitol Police even prior to January 6th, but during that particular day, and we'll get into a little bit about that experience in the interview.

[00:08:51] But I just want to thank you for that man. And I know you've gotten a lot of paths on the back and all that kind of stuff.

[00:08:58] But as somebody who has been an elected official before, somebody who was a sergeant of arms of the legislative body before or somebody that's been in law enforcement.

[00:09:09] I just want you to know from the bottom of my heart, I really appreciate what you did and that you made it through.

[00:09:17] So.

[00:09:18] Thank you for those kind words and I'm very humbled to hear you guys.

[00:09:25] You say those things, like I tell many people, I just simply did my job what I was supposed to do and what I saw enough for.

[00:09:36] I know that it was a extraordinary day, eventful day.

[00:09:42] But I don't feel like I did something major.

[00:09:47] Obviously, a lot of people tend to disagree with me, but I humbly welcome and I said those words, but I was you simply doing my job.

[00:09:59] Yes, sir. And that's usually how most heroes say that. I'll just do my job. That's always good.

[00:10:04] And look, at the beginning of the interview, what I usually try to do with a guest is I try to find a quote that either relates to the work that they're doing something from what they've written or something you know that they may have said in an interview.

[00:10:21] And your quote is all it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[00:10:31] What does that quote mean to you?

[00:10:35] It means that we shouldn't still stay idle when you see something wrong. You have to speak up, you gotta do state actions.

[00:10:46] And I think that's one of the very same people who are defending the Johnny six, for example, privately they know that this person is a man and the whole president is someone that put not only our very system of governance risk on national security, their own life, on democracy.

[00:11:13] And they privately, they will say all those things. But publicly they have a reservation about saying they can contort themselves to excuse them, give them condone his behavior and don't even have the backbone to come forward and confront him stand up for not only for themselves but for a country.

[00:11:41] It's sad because on Johnny six, these in the videos, electrical issues, they were running for the lives. And if it wasn't because the actions of officers like myself or my colleagues, a lot of them might have parish, a lot of them would have been killed murder right there on other capa.

[00:12:02] And to this day they tell me I need to move on from that day, but they don't tell that to the same guy who orchestrated the insur-emotion, the events of Johnny six to put their lives in the line.

[00:12:21] The only time that they come forward and say something negative or stand up to the president is on the way out when they are about to retire, or when they're about to lose an election. And their courage, it's outstanding to me the lack of it.

[00:12:41] But yeah, they want us, the officers or the other people, unless these other people do the work. Let them be the outspoken because we don't need to put our lives in the line.

[00:12:53] Well, the guy put your life on the line and you still defend him which is very shameful. And this is coming from a lot of individuals who claim and prophesied that they are the party of law in order, the party of law.

[00:13:10] Tell me again how you are those things if you are defending the guy who sent them up to destroy our country, our government, send them up to kill all of them. And when you have that next three people in the line, sucessions to the presidency, the vice president, the speaker of the house and the Senate pretend along with the other 400 plus members of Congress, both chambers.

[00:13:38] And they don't rather investigate the behavior of that person.

[00:13:50] And it's very disappointing.

[00:13:54] Yeah, and we'll get into that a little deeper because I'm going to do you I'm going to do it like you did in the book and the name of the book y'all is American shield.

[00:14:06] We'll you know we're going to plug it because all this all these questions are going to come from the book and I strongly encourage people to get it.

[00:14:16] So that you can understand a perspective of a particular officer but it's a powerful book. And so I'm going to do I'm going to do the interview like you did the book.

[00:14:30] So in the introduction you talked about silence was the blueprint that you're relied on most of your life.

[00:14:40] Why did you feel that way?

[00:14:46] I'm coming out of the morning in another country, the Dominican Republic. I arrived here in the state to 1992 legally with my father petition for me and that time I was granted.

[00:15:06] You know, I had to assimilate. I had to adapt to the culture. I had to made my way through this new country and part of it was where I lived in New York.

[00:15:22] It was a lot of crime, a lot of robbery, murders, a lot of violence and staying away from those things and keeping it to myself not drawing attention as I mentioned in the book American show.

[00:15:36] It was something that worked for me.

[00:15:43] Like I said, same but not making noises paid off for me to keep myself of now only at a trouble but to continue my education to try to be better and that's what I was trying to do.

[00:16:00] Later on in life it was not doable for me to continue. So I began to be a little more spoken about certain things whenever I saw faith that I needed to speak up when it came to doing the right thing and not condoning injustice.

[00:16:23] So like I mentioned, you did the book in two parts. Why did you feel compelled?

[00:16:31] Because you very easily could have just wrote a book about January 6 and been done with it but you felt that you had to tell your life story up until that point. Why did you decide to write the book that way?

[00:16:47] I wanted people to see and know all the sacrifices that I had done for this country.

[00:16:56] I mean it's had it now been because of January 6. I don't think anybody would know all of them, my family and my immediate relatives would know the sacrifices that I had done for this country.

[00:17:11] I spent almost 17 years as a capitalist officer and a member of the United States Army and was not even born in this country.

[00:17:25] I got a lot of accolades or certificates, promotions and things like that. So but that's out of merit out of me doing the right thing out of me doing what I was supposed to.

[00:17:38] So I wanted people to know my background that whenever we come here to the United States as an immigrant, again I was a born here.

[00:17:51] Whenever you hear a lot of those things from the Republican side, you know the immigrants are coming over. The immigrants are in an invasion.

[00:18:01] They only come here to bleach off the government so they're not contributing anything. And here I am at legal immigrant that comes here naturalized immigrant who had checked each box of their criteria as an immigrant.

[00:18:19] Of those immigrants that they won here in this country and yet not a single one of them, except for less chaining at a cancer had taken the time to listen to me, to my story or to what I witnessed especially at January 6.

[00:18:36] So you know they often say we want immigrant that come to this country. Similarly, well I did that. We want a person immigrant that comes here and better get an education. Well I did that.

[00:18:51] You want an immigrant that comes here help the community. Well I did that. You want someone who is going to sworn off and defend the constitution of this country and our nation. Well I did that.

[00:19:04] And even after going to Iraq to war, I came back and I sworn off a second off again to become a police officer and I defended the cap but I protected the cap for 17 years.

[00:19:18] And now that on the biggest attack of our country on January 6, you have people that say you know what?

[00:19:27] The people, the writers who attack the capital. Those are patriots. Those are hostages. Those people are political prisoners and if I had to ask.

[00:19:40] If those people are those things that they say with those connotations, then who are we the police officer who defend the cap on that day?

[00:19:50] What is our role was when we the bad guy the story. Well I know in my heart that we were protecting the cap. We had the authority to be there.

[00:20:02] But the way that they tried to rebrand history and why watch with the events.

[00:20:09] January 6, they're making us seem like you guys were the bad guy on that story because you guys stop the mob.

[00:20:16] You guys stop something bigger that we wanted to happen and therefore we want to call them hostages.

[00:20:23] You know, it's insane and coming from another country and before I came here.

[00:20:31] I always used to hear that the those these principles and values of the American system that no one is about the law.

[00:20:42] We had with this is a lot of opportunity along those things.

[00:20:47] And everybody's whole kind of well now the country itself has not done that as promised always but the majority of time he does.

[00:20:58] And that's what I was expecting on January 6 and after and unfortunately he has some relative issues who had silent with the violent violent mob instead of the officers who defended the cap.

[00:21:14] Very shameful but then I realized that they don't have no shame whatsoever.

[00:21:21] So in 1996 you made your first trip to the US Capitol kind of quickly what was that like and what kind of impacted that have in your life?

[00:21:39] Well, to be honest that trip that came about very for selfish reasons.

[00:21:47] You know I was struggling a little bit in high school for you know I am minimizing my little bit.

[00:21:54] I was really struggling because I couldn't assimilate to the language.

[00:22:01] I was not doing great in my classes the only classes that I was doing great or good enough were Spanish and volleyball.

[00:22:13] So you know those those things all the other classes that I had at that time they were kind of like always a time to me because every single time I tried to ask the teachers,

[00:22:25] hey can you help me out? Can you can you spend a little more a few more minutes with me.

[00:22:30] Race my hand and then we chastise me all semi to the tension because I thought that was being disrupted.

[00:22:37] And it wasn't because to a point it got to a point that I but playing tickets to go back to the micro public and stay there because I was having some such a hard time.

[00:22:52] Getting the help that I needed in assimilating and not only was I having trouble at school but also was having trouble at home with my parents.

[00:23:03] Really my dad you know it's a lot of things a lot of layers that were happening around that time period in my life.

[00:23:12] Yeah.

[00:23:15] All right so let's get to the next level.

[00:23:22] You lost the first love of your life.

[00:23:25] There was tension at home you graduated high school but you were broke trying to pay for college what happens next?

[00:23:34] I persisted. I persisted. I came back after the trip to the military public.

[00:23:43] I had a conversation with my grandfather before then and he convinced me to give this country a second opportunity, a second try and try harder.

[00:23:54] So when that happened I came back and reorient myself.

[00:24:00] I was a little more disciplined in terms of asking for the help that I needed and then sticking with it.

[00:24:08] I eventually got through my God in consular Ms. Vega and she put me in the right path along with a few other supporting cast that I had.

[00:24:22] And that was great. It worked.

[00:24:25] But then a lot of things happened at home.

[00:24:28] You know my mom got burned.

[00:24:30] That kind of set back a few things in my life and it wasn't 9-11 again also happened around the time which is something that I was already in the military doing 17 day orders.

[00:24:48] I just do help me pay my with my education and that kind of 9-11 happened. It was a set back for me but it was the biggest set back for the country.

[00:24:58] And when I was there the army based in Fort Todd in New York and that day you know that kind of like my education everything else that I was going through kind of see.

[00:25:11] I saw it being put aside. It was irrelevant because I knew that at some point I was going to be called up to serve the country on activity and it wasn't going to be for 17 day like I was doing there.

[00:25:27] I completed those 17 days and although I wanted to stay to continue the system to the rescue at ground zero my commanders said we don't need anymore now we have activity.

[00:25:41] I was going to be a citizen soldier a week and to me that was like no I could do a lot more.

[00:25:51] I called the then a coach guard trying to enlist in them as well not realizing that I couldn't do both institutions at the same time and they told me so I can like broke my will stop me for a little bit.

[00:26:10] And then I read in the newspapers I noted that was a increase in demand for security guards so I joined took the class of training became a security guard for and I worked in downtown my hand for almost six to eight months right three blocks or two blocks away from ground zero.

[00:26:37] And to the point that I was talking to some of this police officer and I farted and think all the people who were doing the work there.

[00:26:48] And that kind of like peak my curiosity and just like my trip to the capital back then it also reinforced my thinking about maybe I should be a police officer like that guy that I made at the capital.

[00:27:08] And you know that kind of putting one you know I kind of at one point I was talking to this guy from Turkey Turkey and he like well if you're going to be a if you must if we are putting ourselves in the line.

[00:27:27] And also just make it legit to make it you know becoming full police officer that we have the power to do all the things that you say you want to do so he encouraged me.

[00:27:40] So this is not in the book but that's exactly what happened.

[00:27:44] He told me you know we just joined the police and because at that time chase my hand bank they had a police for security guard aren't security guards and they were in the talks of making them police officer but then that never pan out and I told him what I'm going to wait another month if thousand pan out and I'm out.

[00:28:08] And that's what I there being out applying for several police department through other Eastern region and I ended up at the other capital years later.

[00:28:19] Yeah and you know one of the most compelling parts of the book you know outside of you know making a decision and to be with the capital police and I'd like to wait it's you know you

[00:28:37] know let everything up to that moment and then boom and then we go to January 6th.

[00:28:44] But the other thing that kind of hit me brother was your love life.

[00:28:48] I said you you with some heartbreak I don't want you to comment on that I just want you to know that that was reading and I was like hmm because it's like in some parts of the book I was like is this the one that's going to make it all the way.

[00:29:00] Oh no you know I'm saying see I got to read the book about that.

[00:29:05] But let's let's go ahead and jump off because of time.

[00:29:09] And like I said I want people to buy and read the book for themselves.

[00:29:13] Let's go on to January 6th.

[00:29:16] You were on the capital police force throughout the Trump administration was there any indication that your life was about to change forever.

[00:29:25] I think probably after the second million mega march or woman's march in December that's when we kind of like we began to hear the former president say things like we need to stop the steal.

[00:29:44] We need to we're going to gather.

[00:29:47] See you there in January 6th of a lot of so at that point we thought it was going to be a normal day like all the only events that we ever had the past 17 years and

[00:30:01] you know it's unfortunate that not only was he broadcasting what he wanted to do but a lot of people didn't.

[00:30:11] You know by accident in action we kind of didn't pay too much attention or never imagine that not only the president of the United States was going to send them off to the capital but.

[00:30:25] He will just watch everything happen and then I send the reinforcement that we needed doing the today because everything that happened on January 6th happened during.

[00:31:05] One didn't want to do anything for optics pretending that everything was going to be okay despite seeing everything on TV and they didn't want to irritate him or make a look political when this fact it wasn't political thing that was happening.

[00:31:26] He nearly destroyed our country, our constitution.

[00:31:31] So how long was the actual battle with the insurrection is how many hours do you think that you were on that line fighting.

[00:31:41] Well I'll tell you this I got to the capital in January 6th around 6th and then I didn't go to my house I didn't get back to my house until 4 am the next day.

[00:31:54] The fighting that actually fighting with the police of the police line when they first breach that was around 12 54 12 50 on the during the day and from that time when I heard the radio call saying, say no you got you know originally on the radio.

[00:32:20] That was I got there like around 105 104 and I didn't leave that area from the on the west front in the tunnel until around close to 6.6 p.m.

[00:32:32] So I told you talking about almost five hours yeah fighting point of half hour or five you know it in on and off fighting.

[00:32:45] I tried to defend the police line or the line against hundreds of people trying to breach it we did the best we could.

[00:32:59] That's why I ran into some of the officers who now I have become very fun like what we do in the army battles, battle bodies you know you had that relationship that bond but you know we did what we could with what we had.

[00:33:19] The what we didn't think of what I thought was never in my life would the president of states 16 blocks away watch an event happening and the capital inside by himself and then send the help that we needed.

[00:33:39] Once we began losing the police line of like you know what I hope I'm sure that he's watching he'll send some he'll send the corbary he'll send the reinforcement we need and he did.

[00:33:56] So capital metropolitan police month a month and bike unit come begin to descend from the stairs and that was like 60 70 people and then they they start there was nobody else coming down and like this is going to be a long day for us.

[00:34:17] We began losing a lot of ground rapidly officer being assaulted injured bleeding with all kinds of weapons I step on people's blood my blood my colleagues blood riot blood you know they were not peaceful as they some of the public and size say they were.

[00:34:43] And the only reason why we began to escalate things was because they were not peaceful you know you got they they had.

[00:34:51] They they cherry pick some of these videos from that day just to suit their purpose and tell tell their narrative but it wasn't peaceful as a result we lost all the ground was front we continue to retreat up the inaugural stage.

[00:35:12] Where we began to formulate a allow last 10 pretty much inside the tunnel to try to defend the capital against hundreds of thousands of people trying to breach the capital and the West front normally at the same entrance where the president comes out to be sworn in and take his office.

[00:35:39] And on that particular area that was where the most intense and fierce fierce fighting happened and that was in the area for hours.

[00:35:54] Doing multiple things you know fighting pushing shoving defend that kind of entrance because I knew as one of the supervisors of the capital police and someone who had worked there for a long time I knew some of the areas around us are very sensitive and some of the those areas are where some of the members are usually goes for refuge.

[00:36:23] Refugee and hideouts so I knew what was the stake I knew the private vice president wasn't in the back inside the capital.

[00:36:34] Nobody else.

[00:36:37] No one came through there that we did not allow that I think it was like two people that we allowed to go in and that was because for medical reasons but we held a line we we stopped them off from going in there.

[00:36:52] You know it's unfortunate that a lot of people see those writers being peaceful because they know but they know that that's the truth.

[00:37:02] I sure if they had the same events with the same totality of circumstances happening in their house or the place of work I'm sure that they will want us to do what we did on that day and prevent harm to themselves and to their family.

[00:37:21] I'm fortunate.

[00:37:24] So you know not to sound like NFL injury report but just kind of list the injuries that you suffered personally once you finally got some medical attention.

[00:37:36] I didn't realize that was a dangerous buzz I was because I had the adrenaline going on.

[00:37:44] I had the responsibility of protecting and continuing to defend the capital.

[00:37:51] I didn't get the full picture until later that nine months later when I actually got treated so the most of you ones that I received were I had a food bone fusion surgery month later.

[00:38:11] That was to fix the first two digits of my right toe.

[00:38:17] I'm sorry and so that took I have currently have a screws and one metal plate in my in the right foot on my left shoulder.

[00:38:32] I had a rotator cough dislocation labor and tear and by said tear on that day.

[00:38:45] The both my hands were bleeding with conditions, lacerations, bruises, you know, I still have the scars for it.

[00:38:56] So in those are the most of you one, but then you have the PTSD aggravation because when I came back from Iraq, I came back with PTSD.

[00:39:07] Now only that I have PTSD on January 6th, but then now I got aggravated with another trauma different type of trauma and then you have the what I what I now say a lot it's the more injury because I know I did the right thing.

[00:39:25] I know I did what I was supposed to do and they he got it you have the same people who are risk my life telling me that it wasn't necessary.

[00:39:36] It was I should have done that and if it didn't happen and if it did happen and it was in as bad as I say it did happen, but you know on January 6th, they're even the way not saying those things that were running for lives on January 7th, they weren't saying that because they refused.

[00:39:54] Of the guy who sent them out to kill you know so over the days, the aftermath they had evolved their sentiment they had forgotten how fearful they were of that mal that day and if he wasn't because the actions that I did and my colleagues.

[00:40:14] They would have died I think early this month from January 6th, I posted a reposted something on Twitter on next now and is the four collages that someone sent me one online slew sent me it's about all the my is myself is a collage for different collages.

[00:40:43] I'm pointing me at some of the action things that I did and if you look at the videos of the West front you want to find me you be able to identify me left and right or this me this me this me because of things that I was trying to do.

[00:41:00] I'm trying to protect all these people regardless who political affiliation that were from I even tried to help some of them remember the map where attacking me because they were injured so I didn't see that.

[00:41:14] I think I was doing the political I didn't think I was doing anything other than my job like I told you earlier.

[00:41:22] I see and I saw the humanity in some of these people even though they were the one attacking me in my colleagues so again I didn't do any of those things or awards, accolade or certificate because it was my job and I tried to do my job to the best I could.

[00:41:41] I was without prejudice and if someone sees it differently then that's one of the biggest I was doing my job and doing what I was supposed to.

[00:41:55] Alright so we're up against it as far as time and you know you have a story we could probably do like two or three podcast episodes just strictly on your story but.

[00:42:08] For the listeners out there you can get the book so you can understand the emotional toll that it took on on on Sergeant canal and the rest of the guys over there ladies over there and even his motivation to decide you know what I'm going to write a book about this i'm going to tell the story.

[00:42:29] Alright what do you want the people who read the book read American shield what do you want them to take away from the book.

[00:42:40] Well one thing that people need to realize is how did not being because of January 6th nobody would have done no any other sacrifices that I had done for this country or the universities that I have overcome the challenges, obstacles both personal.

[00:42:58] Personal and also career wise you know we every single time that something happened to me how we started to approach here in a different angle in a way that you know it might be the longest way but that's what I knew I had to do if I wanted to persevere I wanted to become somebody into a point I did reach the middle class I did reach the American train and all that was.

[00:43:27] In a way taking and raw away from me because my actions on January 6th again you have people who continue to deny what happened to me to my colleagues to the capital to them themselves because they weren't targeting a bit believe it or not in.

[00:43:47] I think if if I was saying that auntie or black by matters or the muscling with a Latino did those things they would want to attack in the capital then I would have be praised by the far right by the Republican side but I'm not i'm just telling them what I had what I witnessed what I experienced and it doesn't matter to me who did it because i'm sure if.

[00:44:17] If Joe Biden decides to do the same thing next year i'm sure that they will have a fed up and they will want somebody to I what I did to defend the capital regardless who is in power who's in office and I just want people to realize also that this shouldn't happen and if it.

[00:44:39] I did happen again that's going to be on us for not paying attention to what the former president is saying because not only did it he orchestrated some of these things or didn't do anything to stop it but he's out there encouraging and I'm playing what happened and also incinuating that it might happen again to point out hopefully if that's happened there are enough of Saguenin.

[00:45:09] Standing on their way to stop them or the other officers who they're not longer in the police officer because of the injuries both mental and physical and moral that I sustain and I want people to know that it has not been easy for me continue to be engaged in some of these cases in court you know you know even though I'm not a police officer anymore

[00:45:37] what happens is very important to me to hold these people accountable for what they did to me they ended my career and I was assaulted by more than 40 people one way or another in only half of them have been gone through the court system so I do want you guys to know is the book is not just about Jerry six is about my entire life and sacrifices that I had done not only to protect myself my family.

[00:46:07] My country but also a life of service a life of sacrifice that both as a police officer and as a military member I appreciate your time and thank you for having me in your show.

[00:46:21] I hope you guys enjoyed books available American shield the Sergeant immigrant that defended democracy is available both in Spanish and English.

[00:46:32] Spanish is called a school or Americano as I ain't talking about defend your democracy and also please review it please review if you can you get a chance I enter your friends it will help me a lot in terms of spraying the world and all the people knowing.

[00:46:50] The sacrifices that officers like myself did on giant six not because we were you know for one party or another because we kept up.

[00:47:03] Well what we were supposed to appreciate your time well Sergeant I appreciate your time again y'all the name of the book is American shield do you have like a website where people wanted to reach out to you personally that they are not going to be able to do it.

[00:47:19] Personally that they can go to.

[00:47:22] I have the twitter you can find me on sergeant a q geo that's the best brow that you could find me and I don't have a website available but through twitter ex now sergeant a q geo.

[00:47:42] I'm going to find you there.

[00:47:45] All right guys sergeant a qelino good nail again sir thank you for your service and thank you for your time for coming on the podcast.

[00:47:56] All right guys and we'll catch out on the other side.

[00:47:59] All right and we are back.

[00:48:23] Again what a what an honor to have that brother on and I tell you what the sergeant is the real one he's the real one.

[00:48:37] Yeah so you know I think you're going to see a lot more him in the days months years to come as we continue on our journey to try to save democracy but speaking about saving democracy.

[00:48:57] My next guest has been doing his part to create future leaders of democracy and somebody that you know I met being a candidate for office in Mississippi and really valued his input and sometimes we got into disagreements before the most part.

[00:49:25] He was very very helpful in my journey and I'm really honored to have him on and his name is Dr. Marvin King.

[00:49:36] Dr. Marvin King is associate professor of political science with a joint appointment in African American studies at the University of Mississippi teaches classes on African American politics politics of the American South political inequality and American federalism.

[00:49:53] In 2022 Dr. King received a grant to host a conference on exclusive inclusive economies as a result of that award he had many interactions with local nonprofits economic development officials and state legislatures legislatures about developing inclusive economies which is an economic system intentionally designed to think about workers left behind in the current system.

[00:50:22] In 2023 Dr. King co-chaired a multi institutional collaboration producing an inclusive economies road show across the state of Mississippi he previously served on Oxford Mississippi planning commission where he learned firsthand how local land development codes can impede equitable economic growth.

[00:50:42] Dr. King served on Oxford's part commission which oversees you sports he also has experience as an expert witness in federal redistricting trials ladies and gentlemen is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast Dr. Marvin King.

[00:51:12] Dr. Marvin King how are you doing brother you doing good I'm doing well glad to be here thanks for having me yes sir it's good to get to talk to you again it's been a long time and you've been up there at Ole Miss for a while you've been there since 2005.

[00:51:36] I don't want to think about how many years I've been here it has been a while that's true yeah because this is like when we first met you were really just kind of coming on to the campus and I was right out there doing trying to do my thing for the US Senate and all that stuff so.

[00:51:53] I know those years from like 2006 to 2014 I was more active during that during that period and so I was you know had my ear to the ground.

[00:52:12] I understand those are those were some cool times I'm going to hang on like compared to what we're dealing with now but yeah that is true what I normally do with a guess is that I try to find a quote that either something they said something wrote.

[00:52:34] Or something every last is the topic of the conversation so your quote is going to be the method of political science is the interpretation of life is instrument is insight a nice understanding of subtle unformulated conditions what does that quote mean to you.

[00:53:00] Trying to understand how decisions are made in the political realm and when I think of political science I'm thinking of our we're studying power who gets it why do they get it out of the habit how do they keep it what can be done if they're not using their power correctly.

[00:53:28] And but a lot of this goes back to insights as far as you the individual what we what you think is you know an appropriate use of power you know what what power should we give to those who rule us.

[00:53:45] You know to find a difference between political science and politics now for the audience here's the disclaimer dr king and I are pretty cool like I said we haven't talked in a while but I got a mad one time.

[00:54:03] I was thinking because I jumped around and said that political science was a oxymoron and I was speaking as a politician and dr king got on and he said no you can't say that why would you say that but so define for the audience the difference between political science and politics.

[00:54:24] So so great great memory great great question I would say that political science you know we're studying who gets what when where how politics is the practical application of the use of that power and achieving power.

[00:54:54] And they're very different you know so political science you know we're just sitting here in our office and we just kind of read about what the politicians do try to come up with some theory to explain it but politics itself and its raw undiluted form.

[00:55:09] It's hard it's rough and it's about power and we see this and I'm sure everyone in your audience can think of examples not only nationally but at the state and local levels where they live.

[00:55:24] So I think that's how people try to achieve power and how they and how they wield that power.

[00:55:31] And that to me is politics and what I see with my students is a lot of them want to dip their toes in politics but then most aren't cut out for it.

[00:55:43] You know it's a it's an awful world out there you know and a lot of folks they you know they read the books and they're like oh this is interesting and exciting I want to get involved and then they do.

[00:55:56] And then usually after two or three years are like nah I'm gonna go get a job at the card dealership I'm gonna get a job bank yet I don't want any part of this and I'm like good for you.

[00:56:06] Yeah, you know I used to when people would even my father so my father was like totally amazed that I got into politics.

[00:56:21] Because he said Eric you really got this incredible BS meter and you you really don't tolerate people a lot.

[00:56:33] And so he was just so stunned that I was you know not only interested but I actually got elected to something I actually was pretty good at it.

[00:56:42] So you know I definitely can relate to what you're saying about how tough it is to be out there and do stuff but to be honest and this is part of my maturity talking to.

[00:56:57] What you all do now only as teachers but also as people that actually try to get information try to figure out what what is going on.

[00:57:08] I think it's tougher now than it then it ever has been to be a political scientist.

[00:57:18] Do you feel that way do you feel that is harder now to get it accurate political analysis than it's been before?

[00:57:25] Well I appreciate you saying that I would say that it is harder because of changing.

[00:57:30] You can't assume that the lessons that you taught your students 10 or 15 years ago are going to apply today and our understanding of what I thought were basic concepts and core values that all Americans shared for instance on like democracy.

[00:57:50] I accepted those as a given and it's hard because I'm having to reconcile what I've always been taught and what I've learned growing up in and outside the classroom to what I'm seeing now.

[00:58:05] And so that is that is hard and so I have to adjust myself personally but then how do I how do I teach this to the students in a way that they learn and take something from it and you know I've evolved as a professor especially in the classroom.

[00:58:20] You know now my goal is it's fairly straightforward and simple but I want my students when they graduate or at least leave my classes to be able to have an honest conversation with someone where they are confident and competent to talk about the facts.

[00:58:39] And that seems like a low bar but given where America is now that that to me is what I can do if I can produce groups of students who can go out in the world and say no let me understand how government works and what it's trying to do and what some of these politicians are trying to achieve if they have an understanding of that that I feel like I've succeeded.

[00:59:04] But that's because I've had to go back and reassess what do I want out of my students I can't just assume that everybody you know for instance supports democracy and I probably took that for granted and didn't emphasize some of those core values when I first started teaching so that that's difficult but I'm I feel like I've been able to recognize and keep up with how the world is changing for better worse.

[00:59:32] So I remember when I was asked to teach a class of Jackson State the political science director said flimmin teach strictly from the book but you go off on these tangents about the inner workings and your war stories about the legislative process just teach strictly for the book.

[00:59:52] You've got you've got a little more tenure and some status so I know you can kind of deviate from the book a little bit.

[01:00:01] I go off the book.

[01:00:04] I go off straight.

[01:00:06] Do you learn something you were talking about the challenges and not assuming do you learn something from your students at this stage in teaching are you picking with the atmosphere?

[01:00:17] Are you learning something from your students about how to teach this?

[01:00:22] Well what I learned from my students is is they bring me information from what their experiences.

[01:00:30] You know here at the University of Mississippi about half of our students are from Mississippi about half or from out of state but most of those out of state students are still within say the south right from Texas to Georgia up to Virginia.

[01:00:45] That's most of our students about half from Mississippi so it's really useful for me because I'm constantly asking them what are things like for you back home and so in that way I'm learning about what's happening in Georgia in Texas and Arkansas and Tennessee all over.

[01:01:03] And then that enables me to kind of hear these different experiences and then parlay that into a message and I can take their experiences with my academic research and knowledge and tell I feel like a coherent story about here so we are now.

[01:01:22] And here's how we got there and I always try to do that in all my classes whatever the subject is I always start with well let's go back in time and work our way forward so it's a bullet on the political scientists but often my classes might have a political history feel to it will work our way up.

[01:01:41] And so I just have that accumulated knowledge which I'm then able to articulate to the next round of students but I'm always pulling from them you know what is happening out there because you know I'm not in Missouri I'm not in all these other places that my students are coming from so I do I do learn from them and I just taught a new class for the first time called political inequality and essentially it's about.

[01:02:09] Income and wealth inequality and how that affects our politics and how politics affects the income and wealth that we all have.

[01:02:19] And so there I learned a lot from my students because they all have different socio economic backgrounds some are more well off than others and so I learn a lot and that's what I like about teaching is it's not it's not static every semester is different even if I'm not in the same way.

[01:02:38] So the next semester is different even if I'm teaching the same classes.

[01:02:42] So since you brought that up let me let me get to that question I wanted to ask you about that you for the last couple of years you've really dedicated a great deal work connecting economics and public policy talk about why have you kind of put this emphasis on making that connection.

[01:03:05] So if you'll bear with me I'll tell you a story about a former student of mine I'll leave his name out of it but he's one of my favorite all time students super bright kid came from North Mississippi.

[01:03:17] And then he graduated and he did TFA for a couple of years teach for America out in the Delta and then he went up to DC worked on Capitol Hill and then he went to Harvard for his master's degree.

[01:03:33] And his thesis was on the racial education gap in Mississippi schools, the achievement gap on all the all the tests right white kids are scoring lower than white kids.

[01:03:49] So we spent a lot of time talking about why that's the case and and I emphasized him I said a lot of this has to go back to segregation and housing and I was explaining how schools are based funding is based off of property taxes.

[01:04:05] You've got differential levels of white wealth and black well in this manifest itself in our homes and then the housing values, but then the schools will have more or less resources just depending on where you live.

[01:04:19] I said this is the black school child's it's not there.

[01:04:23] They're just born into it but they're born into a structure that is going to provide less for their schools and that's the state.

[01:04:33] So I kind of percolated on this and then so years later to say you know what I can't want to move in this direction because to me, this is like the core of understanding not only income inequality but then political inequality because as we know people with less income are less likely to vote.

[01:04:51] You're less likely to engage in the political process well if we want to change the things that I think a lot of us want to change and probably a lot of your listeners want to change you need people to be engaged.

[01:05:04] But it kind of comes down to economics right this this inner connectedness of economics and politics.

[01:05:13] So going back to that student years later he says you know what doctor King I'm going to go get my my MBA.

[01:05:21] I said your MBA where are you going to get your MBA he said well do you remember a long time ago you told me I didn't remember telling him this but he said I told this.

[01:05:31] You said well if you really want to change the world this is what I said it would be said if you really want to change the world it would really help if you were rich and then.

[01:05:42] Because I said, then you can you can be a philanthropist.

[01:05:47] You can lobby all the politicians you'll have access to all the politicians you can run for office.

[01:05:56] The world is your oyster when you have a lot of money.

[01:05:59] So he calls me and he says you know after all these years I've learned all this have a lot of experience and now I want to go make some money.

[01:06:05] Because he said I want to change the world so go do it and but we don't all have those opportunities.

[01:06:12] I mean some of us do he's he's an incredible student incredible young man and he's got a great future and I'm happy to watch him on his journey but in a nutshell he's right.

[01:06:26] I think I was right that it does make a difference and so figuring out how to create more opportunities for more people has kind of become my mission.

[01:06:39] But as a professor I have kind of some limits on what I can do but what I can do and what I can control is teach students about the structure of the system that's out there that has affected people's opportunities economic and political over the last all of American history.

[01:07:03] Yeah and I'm really glad that you're focusing in on that. One of the things that you know one of my mantras when when I was active and you know running and serving in politics was the fact that our obligation as black politicians is to create an improved black wealth and my role model was always made in Jackson and I run the world.

[01:07:33] I'm technically now I'm here in Atlanta but it's like that was that was who I looked at it's like you know his whole objective was to build a black middle class in Atlanta and the proof is in the pudding he you know his legacy is we have a strong black middle class in Atlanta.

[01:07:52] It's a strong as it should be now but that's a whole nother conversation for another show.

[01:07:57] That's right.

[01:07:58] But you know I always thought and I think about another great guy that people don't talk about a lot was Michael White and Cleveland.

[01:08:05] Okay.

[01:08:06] How he transformed you know we watch on TV you know the Guardians play and the Browns play and all these the Cavaliers but it was Michael White's vision to make that happen.

[01:08:20] Because everybody was playing pretty much in the same stadium right and he and he used that to build a rebirth in Cleveland so.

[01:08:30] It's just really about Cleveland's downtown how that place has really transformed itself the last handful of years.

[01:08:37] Yeah and Michael White was the catalyst for and black folks benefited from that so.

[01:08:44] I'm really glad that you're focusing in on that and because of where you teach you have a broader audience and say you know where I went to school with Jackson State or something like that.

[01:08:56] Even though universities are more diverse than most institutions in America.

[01:09:03] You have a more diverse group to work with and so that that helps that more people are getting that message and delving into that subject.

[01:09:14] That's right and what I like about it here I actually appreciate the fact that a lot of our students are out of state because I know that.

[01:09:24] I'm teaching hopefully will reach beyond the state.

[01:09:29] I mean it's important here and Mrs. Cippy of course but even beyond you know and I ask students all the time and you can see you know how students professors talk about that.

[01:09:38] Uh huh light bulb moment or you know for me it's the jaw drop when I tell them I say hey look how many of you just go back home I'll talk about something simple but it's important like zoning.

[01:09:51] I said go back home and the next time you're home look at where the nice homes are.

[01:09:57] Look at where the public housing is look at where the low income housing is and just start thinking about some of those physical barriers like highways and freeways that by sec towns like just kind of just just think about it and just ask yourself did that just happen by chance because one thing I always tell them is that nothing happens by chance.

[01:10:20] Right those highways were built where they were built for a reason.

[01:10:25] The industrial parts of town they you know I talk about like the factories and stuff I said go back to your town find the nicest neighborhood and see how close the nicest the closest factory is nowhere near it.

[01:10:38] It's going to be way on the other side of town so that never happens by accident and so those sorts of moments they're like oh really.

[01:10:47] Like yeah that doesn't happen by accident there is an old I try not to make it always so serious because sometimes it's it's heavy and I recognize you know I'm talking with 19 20 year olds.

[01:11:03] And truly they did not create any of these policies they're born into it black or white or whatever rich or poor they're born into it so I recognize that it's not they're doing it's not.

[01:11:15] But that doesn't mean that they can't do anything about it and so i'll play.

[01:11:25] This little clip from Dave she'll.

[01:11:28] And he talks about going into the I probably shouldn't do this but he talks about going into the ghetto and he sees liquor store pawn shop gun shop right and I ask him I said now you go to the nice part of town do you see all that stuff well no that's always on another side of town.

[01:11:44] I'm going there you go let's think you know let's think about that how that comes to be.

[01:11:54] And I feel the students learn a lot and then they go back home and maybe they see their home a little differently in my southern politics class I always talk about.

[01:12:10] Every town's got a first Baptist church and usually it's white and then there's a second Baptist church and usually it's black and I'm like well why is this the same Baptist God.

[01:12:23] And but it then it allows me to talk about segregation discrimination Jim Crow you know even the churches were segregated what does that say so it gets them to see their world differently and I feel I'm not pointing anything out.

[01:12:39] That you and all your listeners wouldn't already know I'm just showing that to them in the context of African American politics.

[01:12:52] Yeah it's a beautiful thing all right so.

[01:12:56] Time we have left let's let's try to delve into.

[01:13:00] 2024 as much as we can sure I heard a political pendant say recently that 12% of the country will vote to save democracy in the 2024 election.

[01:13:11] Now the 12% will vote to advance an authoritarian state and everyone else will be voting based on the issue that impacts them the most how accurate of an assessment is that.

[01:13:24] Oh.

[01:13:32] That might be on I hadn't thought about it in terms of percentages but given the GOP base that is dead sell voting for Trump.

[01:13:44] I think that's.

[01:13:51] That element is there and they're not going away and their their desire to see democracy uplifted is not there.

[01:14:05] Trump has you know many times alluded to his authoritarian tendencies and we see the people he admires are not lowercase Democrats.

[01:14:21] And you've got the the never trumpers right who you know the the Democrats I guess who would be considered never Trumpers.

[01:14:30] Let's say it's probably more than 12% but the issue is it's not a winning coalition those that believe in democracy they're not they're not enough where you can guarantee victory.

[01:14:41] There's enough independence who care about democracy but then there's self interested voters you know and that's not that's not a pejorative that's just in political science how we describe.

[01:14:55] People who vote voters people are thinking about their jobs and their wages and housing costs and inflation they're just self interested voters they're voting on who they think can.

[01:15:06] Make their problems go away.

[01:15:10] And the irony is you know some of these voters also voted for Obama you know right so you don't want to that's just who they are.

[01:15:21] And I would say it's a distressing high number of people who will vote for who who will not vote to support democracy.

[01:15:31] Yeah that's that's kind of the scary thing about it but you know your student history you know I am too and you know that element has always been in America.

[01:15:41] And you know it's just something that you know my argument has always been just have them on the fringe don't actually elect these people to office.

[01:15:54] That's what's changing.

[01:15:56] Well you're right about that in my southern policies class I spent a lot of time talking about America's anti-democratic the whole history of black politics is overcoming the south in particular anti-democratic impulses and that's all Jim Crow was was anti democracy.

[01:16:19] And so we've you're right we've had this this strain in American political culture since day one the differences.

[01:16:28] We never had a presidential candidate who so clearly articulated these kind of anti-democratic beliefs.

[01:16:38] Yeah alright so final question what issues do you believe is going to motivate black people to go to the polls this election.

[01:16:50] You know nationally I mean I know you you have a focus in Mississippi but you know just from your reading and whatever research you may have done what what what do you think are the main issues that are going to get black people to come out to focus.

[01:17:07] I don't think the democracy thing is going to work.

[01:17:10] That's a great question you know that's the million dollar question every election term as you know how do we get black people to vote in and inappropriate numbers that's always the issue you know what will motivate people to come out and I don't think democracy democracy unfortunately is enough to do it it has to be.

[01:17:33] So there's a lot of issues speaking to their collective so they're collective good.

[01:17:39] You know in recent past years I might say you know police reform something like that might might get people out but it's hard to nationalize that issue that's not really an issue Biden can can can campaign on that's more of a state and local issue even though it has national residents.

[01:18:02] I'm not sure we're seeing this with a lot of white voters with abortion you're seeing a lot of white voters come out and vote to save choice for women.

[01:18:16] I'm not sure for black voters that's I would say that's not going to be a big motivating factor for most black voters so it's probably you know the economy and jobs and inflation but it has to be articulated in a way that's that's personal to them.

[01:18:31] Biden Biden I feel has to talk about.

[01:18:35] Hey look yes inflation was high and he has acknowledged that's been painful for a lot of people but then talk about it is coming down we we're on a path where it is coming down.

[01:18:46] And he has to figure out a way to make that meaningful to to each black voter but that's hard that's hard I mean you know how hard that is to get to get messaging across in a way that's meaningful.

[01:19:00] To people if I were Biden I'd figure out a way to hire Stacy Abrams and get her thoughts on it because you know in the folks who ran.

[01:19:12] Raphael war knocks campaign and and folks like that to think about it I study this and I don't know the answer and if anyone says oh this is what you need to do this is what you need to do.

[01:19:28] You know it's a little it's a little statistics mixed in with some good wish craft but nobody knows the answer.

[01:19:35] Well having watched it firsthand here my my suggestion would be if you're a candidate running nationally a statewide you need to hire Raphael war next media team.

[01:19:48] The commercials that he ran were some of the best commercials I had ever seen they were funny at some point there serious dog.

[01:19:58] Yeah those are some of the best commercials I mean it was just you know even playing on the fact about her walker being his great athlete I mean I was he came right out the gate with that one so you know but that I agree with you messaging is the most important thing to do.

[01:20:17] Is the most important thing and that you know I just I just had a show where I had three different democratic commentator political commentators and you know that that was basically theme is it's all about messaging and hopefully.

[01:20:35] For Biden sake you know really for the countries in my opinion but for Biden say you that he figures that out but you know I don't know so look man how how can.

[01:20:46] How can people get in touch with you.

[01:20:49] You know and you know if they want to pick your brain like I did today how did it get in touch with sure sure the best thing is email it's real simple my first name Marvin in my RP I am at Ole Miss dot E.

[01:21:05] You all E my SS dot E. That's that's the best.

[01:21:10] All right so doctor Marvin King I appreciate you coming on brother keep up the good work hopefully next time I get to Mississippi I can make it up north.

[01:21:22] Usually I might get there I'm stuck in Jackson but hopefully we'll run into each other soon appreciate you.

[01:21:30] I appreciate it and thanks for the time happy new year happy new year to you too thank you.

[01:21:36] All right guys and we'll catch all on the other side.

[01:22:00] All right and we are back and so now my final guest is a sister who.

[01:22:10] As devoted her life to make sure that good causes gets get gets the funding that they need.

[01:22:20] And when I say good causes I mean causes that.

[01:22:24] We'll have a positive impact on this kind of underlying theme of the show about saving democracy.

[01:22:31] And her name is Alexis Buchanan Thomas.

[01:22:36] Hailing from small town Finley Ohio Alexis was born into a family ingrained in the fight for racial justice.

[01:22:45] Parents started the first chapter in WACP and Finley and her mother became the first black member of the school board in the 80s.

[01:22:53] It's fired by her parents activism Alexis started a black student union while attending high school.

[01:23:00] Upon graduation Alexis attended Clark Atlanta University where she obtained a degree in mass communications after working in corporate America for 11 years for companies like AT&T

[01:23:11] in global experience specialist of GS where she gained experience in business account management sales and planning large scale events.

[01:23:19] Alexis decided to lend her talents to philanthropy beginning a career in funds development since getting involved in the nonprofit community 15 years ago she has raised over a hundred million dollars in funds for various nonprofits through donors grants, corporate sponsorships and fundraising events.

[01:23:39] A hundred million dollars.

[01:23:43] Alexis is worked with a variety of nonprofit and corporate clients including the center helping obesity and children in successfully or choices.

[01:23:54] The Devbro Georgia treatment network Atlanta celebrates photography and hope Atlanta and it's currently the director of development for black votes matter.

[01:24:07] Ladies and gentlemen it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast Alexis Buchanan Thomas.

[01:24:17] Alright Alexis Buchanan Thomas how are you doing sister you doing good?

[01:24:33] I'm going good thanks for having me today.

[01:24:37] It's good to have you on you know you're one of those people that everybody needs right in the background doing the work now you you kind of get out there on the front a little bit but for the most part you know you you out there and we're going to delve into the work that you do but I just wanted to say that from the opening because having been an elected official having been a candidate for statewide office and all that.

[01:25:06] You learn to appreciate the people that do the work so you don't have to and you can be the face of whatever and and be able to articulate when needs to be done so I just wanted to throw that flower at you real quick.

[01:25:26] So how I start off my interviews is that I try to find a quote that either that person may have said or written in the book or something that relates to the work that they do so your quote is power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice and justice at its best is power correcting everything that stands against love.

[01:25:56] What does that quote me do.

[01:25:59] I love that you pulled that you know quote from Dr. P we actually use it very often with our work with black voters matter funds to me means power is love right and if you love folks you want to empower them right and I feel like that's what every one of us wants to do is feeling empowered

[01:26:24] and the work that I do is really teaching people how to empower themselves for their voting.

[01:26:31] What is the black voter black votes matter fund and what is your role with the organization.

[01:26:39] Sure so black voters matter is actually we actually have two organizations we have a C3 and a C4 and so for those of y'all who aren't totally familiar with what that means in the political space you know a C3 nonprofit you have to kind of stay very strictly.

[01:26:55] In nonpartisan lines where C4 allows you to get a little bit more into lobbying and we have both entities so we can be flexible but I read again you know relative to your quote we are first and foremost we call ourselves a power building organization.

[01:27:12] And so we build power in black communities through the power voting and that's the variety of different ways you know we are capacity building organizations so we support grassroots orgs that are actually.

[01:27:24] On the ground doing the work by building their capacity whether it's giving them communications tools helping them with marketing campaigns we re grant.

[01:27:34] Half to a third of every dollar that we receive to these grassroots orgs you know are my founders clip all bright in the Tasha brown definitely really feel like the South and these grassroots orgs are under invested in.

[01:27:51] And so that was you know part of their mission was to provide resources to these groups are actually doing the actual work on the ground to support them and so yeah it's a little bit of everything it's you know voter education it's of course we are heavily involved in advocating for you know voting rights whether it's.

[01:28:12] On the state and local level with policy changes we'll be doing a lot of that work when a lot of the backlash came out in 2021 with these voters oppression laws in the books.

[01:28:22] And I call it backlash because really that's what it was right they saw a big you know turnout and decided to put these laws in the books to restrict folks access to the ballot but.

[01:28:33] We you know do a lot of policy work in that sense and then I love how you were just speaking about you know whether it's homeless or whatever it's all intersectional right and so a lot of the work that we do in these communities because we say voters matter 365 days a year right we can't parachute into.

[01:28:52] The communities you know in September before November election and expect if they're going to want to engage with us and honestly most of our communities that's what they feel right you know that's why we say black voters matter not black votes right because a lot of politicians come in and you want the black vote but the voters don't matter and so we have programs that.

[01:29:12] Also wrap around these issues that are playing our communities and you know we do our best really educate folks about how it's all intersectional voting from everything to healthcare and Medicaid expansion.

[01:29:24] Of course this issue abortion as health care is on the ballot we have a warrant clinic where you know it's really part of our criminal justice profile and.

[01:29:35] We go into communities and wipe out mischievous warrants and fines and that's been a way to really.

[01:29:41] And incorporate this conversation with black men and engage them about how why voting is so important so it's all these different things even climate we have a really big climate just portfolio and that's because what we were hearing on the ground in black communities.

[01:29:57] A lot of people don't you know necessarily recognize that but most of these natural disasters are you know people of color is fortunately affected by these things and so and and some of the stuff is going on forever right we're doing work in the black belt Alabama on coal ash same thing is happening in North Carolina.

[01:30:14] You know we start this work in Albany Georgia about high utility bills and that ended up in a voter education campaign about what your public service commissioners and how that's an elected official who helps society utility rates right.

[01:30:27] So I would say just overall black voters matters mission is to empower black communities through the power of voting by touching and all these different ways and really just educating folks on how it's all intersectional to your point political politics is local.

[01:30:42] And if you can start there on the grassroots level you can make change as well as you know why the South is so important for political change we are based in the south we're in nine core states.

[01:30:55] But we have a lot of gosh now we're at all like 14 additional states that we're doing work in but we have started in the south because you recognize that political power rested right you look at most of the folks and politics to make big decisions they come from other states.

[01:31:13] And we think honestly to there's really opportunities for us black communities to regain political power in the south we know has been a huge reverse migration and so just organized in that political power is impactful.

[01:31:28] Yeah black voters matter so 65 I matter you matter we better um quote in the sense now.

[01:31:36] So and your role is.

[01:31:39] I'm a directive development so I've been with the organization I just hit my four year anniversary it's been really a pleasure to see the organization grow I mean it was just we are a startup organization I feel like we're getting out of startup you know status but the organization was founded in 2016 again by flip off right and with Sasha brown they were in some Alabama doing work for the dead Jones versus worry more.

[01:32:05] Election which i'm you know sure you're familiar with the Jones was pushing to the Senate by the high and the power of black women and in black voters matter was was founded from there.

[01:32:16] And so yeah I you know raise the funds to help support all these programs yes.

[01:32:23] So that leads me to my next question how much of a challenge has it been to raise the funds necessary to do what the organization needs to do.

[01:32:33] You know it's been a challenge right we were of course one of the black led organizations that was you know definitely benefited from you know the windfall of of 2020 and folks of course the unfortunate thing with George Floyd and then the election and people wanted to contribute to black led organizations.

[01:32:55] That being said that's gone down considerably in the last couple years and it's not just us that experience that we're experiencing we're talking to other or similar to us everyone seeing it on the ground it's been you know tougher to fundraise it's always you know fundraising is always tough right i i love it i've been doing this work for 15 years now and so it's something that I actually do enjoy but in part of my life.

[01:33:24] But in part of you know what comes with fundraising is that things have been flow and that you know you'll have a George Floyd moment and the next you know year it's your crane right now it's is real and people's attention shifts and they want to invest in in that but.

[01:33:42] You know there's been some of this backlash for D.I. initiatives and just African American history that's also trickle down into supporting black led works.

[01:33:53] And so we are you know seeing some struggles with fundraising on that side and honestly I wish that more of our community would invest in our work.

[01:34:04] That's honestly been a struggle and it's not that we don't invest but we can invest more and so I would love to see more diversification of just you know support by black folks in black led organizations.

[01:34:16] Yeah because you touched on a number of things in those two answers you talked about.

[01:34:23] And I'll get to the Katrina.

[01:34:27] Uh impact with the climate justice deal.

[01:34:32] But I remember when I was working with the ACLU in Mississippi when Donald Trump got elected and the ACLU just got hit with all sorts of money they they really kind of spazed out you were thinking organization had been around for a long time.

[01:34:49] Had some kind of protocol to deal with the influx of money and they were like what do we do where they were scrambling you know it's like well don't spend it all but.

[01:35:00] You know everybody benefited from that then of course you know that just that weighing down a little bit we had you know I'm sure they have a little uptick after like you said the murder George Floyd but.

[01:35:13] You know so I and I'm glad you addressed that specifically because that's something that I feared was going to happen.

[01:35:23] That you know once the corporations realize it's like okay well now we got these customers these black customers now they know we're not racist supposedly so we're going to ease off of this D.I. thing a little bit you know I'm saying we're going to.

[01:35:40] Cut these folks and I knew that was going to happen because that's a history so you know you being you've been in the corporate world and now you're in the nonprofit sector.

[01:35:51] I just wanted to kind of tap your brain to see how that was impacting you and I think you you addressed that.

[01:36:00] It's been interesting though yeah it's been interesting though I will say this you know we actually at black voters matter have a decent corporate portfolio.

[01:36:10] Support right and we've had some corporations reach out to us because they're struggling with how to support us you know because there has been such a backlash on D.I.

[01:36:22] You look at what happened with Budweiser you look at what happened with target and just even how they're targeting some of these companies that have D.I. officers right and so we have had some corporations reach out to us and say we want to continue to support y'all but we're trying to figure out how we can navigate.

[01:36:38] You know these waters so I don't think it's necessarily you know all of their fault because they also to have a customer base they have to appeal to as well.

[01:36:49] But then I will say on the other side we do have some corporations that gauge was in 2020 during the high to George Floyd have a hurt from them sense and I've reached back to them every year right as many as a fundraiser that's one supposed to do is hey you gave us a gift can you come back and give us another.

[01:37:02] And I would say you know 60% of the folks who gave in 2020 have not returned.

[01:37:08] So yeah it is something to talk about but I think that we as consumers have to start holding these corporations more accountable where okay yeah you gave this donation in 2020 but what are you continuing to do to support these initiatives?

[01:37:20] Yeah and then the other issue that I wanted to highlight out of the answer was you know what I explained about endowments for HBCUs right so and the comparison always make because you know the university make up is similar.

[01:37:44] So I went to Jackson State and so our endowment last I was checked was like under 40 million dollars or some real real small number.

[01:37:58] So Rice University in Houston actually has less students than Jackson State but their endowment is close to a billion dollars and they say well why is that?

[01:38:11] And I said well let's look at the history. Rice University was started by first of all it's a private school started by an ad gift from Mr. Rice when he died and the whole purpose of school was to create engineers right so it's like from its inception they've been putting out engineers you know whereas Jackson State started off initially as a seminary then for the majority of his history was a teacher.

[01:38:41] So it's a teacher's college right well good bit of its beginning it was a teachers college and that education and we just got an engineering school in my lifetime right so it's like when you have graduates that are graduating and they're getting engineering degrees they're getting these jobs that into engineering field they can give more money.

[01:39:05] So it's a lot of work that are getting teachers jobs and trying to give money and support the institution it's it's night and day so you know I think and that's the issue dealing with you know for every hundred dollars that a white band has a black man has five

[01:39:23] to get the money we need to do the work that we need to do from our own community because of the disparity and of course that's why y'all doing the work so y'all can get the politicians in to fix that wealth gap but I mean that's just a reality we have to face.

[01:39:41] It's true to some degree but I think that we could also invest more in our communities and then I'm going to light some fires by saying this but I feel like I feel like this is my personal opinion we invest a lot in churches in the black community right I was raising me you know grouping am each are still make a donation but that being said there's orgs that are doing the work in the community that actually use more investment right

[01:40:10] and I just feel like we don't do that as a black community right we can invest more in some of these grassroots orgs that are doing I don't know if you're on next door.com but I'm on next door and I hate to get on that website you know it's like the social networking website for neighbors because it's constant feed of people asking for help right like I'm having this problem having that problem and okay you know churches aren't really built up or don't have any work done.

[01:40:40] I have the infrastructure to help folks in the way that some of these grassroots orgs can but there's not the same investment so I agree to some degree but I also feel like we shouldn't invest more in these orgs you know that actually doing the work because again it but I think also part of it is education right because people don't necessarily see how they're intersectional and we do have to do a better job at educating our community to understand why all these things are intersectional right so if you invest in the community

[01:41:09] if you invest in a grassroots org that is lobbying against or if you if you go vote and you vote in every election and you choose a judge you vote for a judge that you know is open to criminal justice reform that may affect you right and your day to day life if you get a ticket versus like you know investing that money in the church that's not necessarily advocating it that way so just my opinion.

[01:41:38] Yeah and there's a historical bias because of that too because for a long time the church was the political organization we used to work more closely together and that's I agree yeah I mean that was our safe space so yeah that's that's the that's the historical connection and like you said we have to evolve from that now that we know that

[01:42:01] we have the capacity to do the work outside of the church infrastructure we have that freedom to do it now but old habits old habits are hard to break but I know I can tell your tenacity you don't figure that out.

[01:42:18] That has been like honestly a goal of mine for a long time you know because we do because you know I work for you know a few different black led organizations and of course numerous white led organizations and I just find that across the board our donor our donor bases are predominantly white right like we don't necessarily contribute even you know the HPC you conversation I'm a Clark Atlantic graduate

[01:42:48] but even that's been I did an interview on a community radio some years ago talking about why people don't give back to HPC use because of the customer service aspect because you have so many problems and what you're done you're done all right and also two were not taught that when we enroll right like when you go to a white institution your top from the time you get on campus you when you become an alumni you have to give back and we're not that culture is not ingrained in us so that's part of it too.

[01:43:12] But I think again you know there's this misconception and we've been talking about it a lot in the funds development community that you know lower income communities can't have the capacity to give when black donors we give we just don't give to or grass who or we give to churches but those five dollar donations add up

[01:43:30] and every dollar counts and I even tell people that all the time like you know we all have our place to play in the movement right my place is I raise the resources for the folks that are out there doing the work right so I'm not out there with marching with the sign but I'm gonna help you buy that sign I'm about a sandwiches in the water and the gas for the bus and all of that right so we all have our place to play in the movement

[01:43:53] so I just think that we need to think more outside of the box I wish there could be more collaborations between church groups church groups and grassroots or so they honestly feel like churches don't have the infrastructure to be able to navigate some of the issues that are affecting our communities now too and so I wish there would be more collaboration than that sense.

[01:44:12] Yeah and you brought up the support thing the first thing I thought about was like John Lewis was giving all the speeches but Julian bond was the dude that made sure that the press showed up you know and yeah so everybody like you said has their role to play so let's talk about your organization black girls do politics talk about the organization talk about the podcast.

[01:44:36] Yeah so we actually was me and a good coworker of mine Renee Smith we decided to find found black girls do politics in 2020 because we just felt like there wasn't necessarily a space for us to talk politics and it wasn't you know a space where it felt relative right like you know being a black woman of a certain age either you could.

[01:45:04] You know and again love joy and read love you know some of those other folks even love again our co-founder with Sasha Brown was you know well known in the political space but felt like as a younger generation of black women like where is our voice right.

[01:45:20] And then a lot of what we really kind of were experiences through our work with black voters matter is just you know and even just me my conversations with my own family and my own friends is just feeling like people feel like politics is above that right it's not necessarily as far from the grass it's hard to grasp how it really is intersectional with your data day light.

[01:45:42] And so wanting to provide a space where you know people could come and we can talk about politics in the way that makes sense to folks are age but then also to provide you know part of the organization is not just a course of podcasts right.

[01:45:59] We actually have a 501c3 and a c4 because we want to provide opportunities for black women to become involved in politics in some way but not necessarily as running as a politician right I think that sometimes we think that the only way you can come involved in politics is running for office and that's totally not true right I do.

[01:46:19] I do funds development work and I'm very active with politics in my work and I'm not a politician right you know you can be a director of operations for a political campaign you can be a social media director for communication campaign communication specials so many different things that you could do.

[01:46:38] I'm in the political sprung that and I feel like these are careers or even opportunities that aren't presented to us as a community I kind of fell into funds development work and I found that generally you know it's not allowed diversity in it there's been recent strides to try to address that in the last few years especially with George Floyd you know it's been addressed in numerous industries but I still find that you know it's not very many folks who do what I do who are present.

[01:47:08] People of color and so one to actually provide an opportunity for some of these careers to be introduced to people who may want to be interested into them and so you know we've been working to provide fellowships for folks in all different aspects of political politics so whether it's working you know as an intern on a political campaign or doing a social media page or even learning development work or.

[01:47:33] Running out of operator political campaign me from working with different organizations and candidates try to provide these fellowships for anyone of any age I think that's important to you know being a woman who's had to reinvent herself a few different times you know I feel like it's never too late to start so if you're 45 year old woman who says I want to get involved in politics maybe I want to do this providing a fellowship for you just as much as someone who's 25.

[01:47:58] I just graduated from college and I'm interested in pursuing some kind of career politics so yeah so black girls do politics is all about this year we're really honestly been thinking about expanding organizations reach to include black men and so we're really thinking about launching black men do politics because of course there's been a lot of focus on black women which not that it shouldn't be but you know we definitely feel like black women is the best way to do it.

[01:48:28] We included more in this conversations and I feel as you know as a black mother of black wife you know we are the ones who kind of shepherd all in these spaces right and so we need to make more openings for y'all to be involved in these spaces I feel like black men don't yet realize their political power.

[01:48:47] And you know that's kind of what we want to you know focus on this year is us as black women how can we lift y'all up in the space to recognize your political power.

[01:48:56] Well that's interesting that you you you closed out with that because my next question you was there seems to be an incredible emphasis on getting more black women and politics why is that and I professed that by saying I represented the district for nine years and that district up until this November I was the only man to ever represent that area it was you know I was you know I'm not going to do that.

[01:49:26] So a woman preceded me and a woman succeeded me right and you know and it like I said and now this young brother whose mom was the representative now he's going to serve in that seat but in January you know but it's like you know I grew up with

[01:49:46] and I was the eldest of the youngest artist Collins in Chicago and and Dorothy Tuman and.

[01:49:55] Faith Wadleton was the president of plan parenthood and you know and I the Barbara Jordan and EVAN Burke Burke and all these I just remember all these sisters that were getting elected and you know I grew it up but it was just as I

[01:50:11] going up in the political realm just to be in meetings and having breakfast with these people.

[01:50:19] So, to me it was always like but black women have always been kind of involved in politics

[01:50:26] just like in the church. Black women really run the church outside of the pastor

[01:50:30] and if there's a female pastor well you know there it is but you know black women have always to me

[01:50:37] have really had a prominent role and you know now with the black girl magic and all this stuff.

[01:50:43] Now it just seems like okay we're really focusing in on that so it was interesting

[01:50:49] that you made an observation it's like well we might need to get these brothers more involved.

[01:50:55] Talk to me about that perception that's out there a little more.

[01:51:00] I mean yeah like I mean I have brothers and you know good guy friends and I have a son and just

[01:51:09] talking to all of them. I mean even the conversations my son will be 24 this year and so even the

[01:51:15] conversations I was having with him in 2020 you know we're kind of alarming to me right.

[01:51:21] I was like well you know what are you thinking about who you're going to vote for president and

[01:51:26] mind you he's really for generation political family right. My family is based out of Chicago as well

[01:51:33] and so my grandparents were active as my parents were activists and then you know I grew up

[01:51:37] can't see right. He's my parents are their first child to end of WACP in a small town and

[01:51:43] a higher than from so I'm just like you know these growing up in a very politically active

[01:51:47] civil rights justice justice family and so just talking to him and he was like yeah I mean my

[01:51:52] friends are going to either vote for Kanye or Trump. I'm like well wait what what do you mean Kanye

[01:51:58] or Trump is even how I raised you and just realizing that like no you know what are you what are

[01:52:04] you talking about right. I raised you right in all the other ways you Ohio State's in you know

[01:52:10] polite to women but Kanye or Trump or think what he's talking about but um you know just talking

[01:52:19] to him and realizing that um no one was talking to black men in that way right. He's like well yeah

[01:52:25] I mean Kanye is talking to me and and Trump is only you know guy on switch. I was talking to two uh

[01:52:32] we did a black voters matter we did it a bus tour in 2021 um called the Freedom Rites where we

[01:52:38] actually re-create the Freedom Rites who went from the south to the north and had a big rally in DC

[01:52:43] and so it's at dinner with some some brothers who had came on the tours. My young brothers they probably

[01:52:47] were like in their mid 20s to late 20s maybe early 30s at one of them. As a wire so many you know

[01:52:53] brothers rocking with Trump like what is that about and they were said a couple different things right

[01:52:59] he addressed one thing that's you know prevalent on you know I think most black men's mind which is

[01:53:04] criminal justice reform right where if you weren't talking about it now when did he talk about it

[01:53:09] he brought in rappers you know again he was very good at identifying with the culture when I talk

[01:53:15] to those brothers and Trump was the only one who was advertising on switch you know which is

[01:53:20] usually what twitch is a gaming platform and even that was something I had done some research into

[01:53:26] the year before that in 2020 because doing research you know I was uh what 60% of black men aged 18

[01:53:34] to 35 on the gaming system 60% and then I thought about having my own son and how it's a right

[01:53:41] of passage for a black man to talk about when he got his first gaming system right every brother you

[01:53:46] know can tell when he got that first whether it's an Atari from back in the day or whether it's a

[01:53:52] PlayStation 4 now they know when he got that first gaming system so I just feel like there's a lot

[01:53:58] of different you know ways that we can engage them in the process and we're not engaging them

[01:54:05] and I feel like we're missing out on a very big people recognizing it now but a very big slice

[01:54:11] of political power that we haven't you know engaged or empowered right in that way and I think

[01:54:17] that Donald Trump recognized it right in 20 which is why he specifically you know he was the one

[01:54:23] on switch right he was the one bringing in rappers a race in their sense as an anti-wing criminal

[01:54:29] justice reform so I think he recognized it and I think people are recognizing it now when they

[01:54:34] saw how many black and Latino men you know voted for Trump and then now of course talking to

[01:54:39] folks on the ground and hearing about how many more of them you know are leaning towards Trump I

[01:54:45] think people are recognizing it black voters matter in itself we were just given a grant

[01:54:50] by black futures lab uh to invest in our programs for um you know black men this year and what

[01:54:57] what we're doing is a variety of different things that are you know of course banking on the

[01:55:02] intersectionality of reaching them where they are we're doing gaming time right we've done one

[01:55:07] before in the past um it was a virtual we'll be doing some online gaming tournaments with our bus

[01:55:12] we'll be doing some you know engagement at sports bars right um you know so we're tailgabies

[01:55:19] you know just different ways we can meet and not the regular barbershop you know conversations

[01:55:26] because that's something we kind of heard part of what we did when we were applying for this

[01:55:30] brand which you know talk to brothers on the ground and ask them like where is the black voters matter

[01:55:36] is one of our corporate mantras is uh to look up the leadership of black women so we were 80% women but

[01:55:41] we have a black men group in the org and so our grants manager who's a brother you know got the

[01:55:47] groups together said hey guys like where can we reach where was you want to be approached that

[01:55:51] how can we engage the community more and they were actually so excited that someone asked them

[01:55:57] right that someone even engaged them in that conversation and so I just think that um you know from

[01:56:02] what I've seen on the ground my own personal life we've got to start and because like y'all want

[01:56:06] to talk right y'all want to engage y'all want to have a voice we just haven't been asking y'all

[01:56:12] um and I think now we recognize we need to because you know your power you guys have power too um

[01:56:19] so yeah yeah that that's great so and that's good I mean that's really really great to hear

[01:56:25] so let's close this out by you giving a testimony why is politics so important to you I mean

[01:56:38] you could have stayed in the corporate world you could have you know made that money and just

[01:56:47] lived that lifestyle and all that kind of stuff what why did you decide

[01:56:51] that politics was important enough for you to get more engaged

[01:56:59] I was part of it is my background you know like I mentioned I'm four of gender I'm third generation

[01:57:04] political family my parents were civil rights our mother was in snig um they started first

[01:57:09] chapter in the lacy p when mother was the first board um blackboard education member the

[01:57:14] talent I'm from she helped me start black student union in my high school like so I came from

[01:57:19] a politically engaged family um but for me I would say personally um what really kind of got me

[01:57:27] into nonprofit work in politics in particular is that I was directly affected by it so I worked

[01:57:33] for AT&T I started working for AT&T when I was in college and I got laid off um in 2005 after

[01:57:43] nine years I'm working there and part of reason why I got laid off in 2005 is that George Bush

[01:57:51] was elected president again in 2004 and he decided not to renew the Telecommunications Act of 1996

[01:57:58] that Bill Clinton had passed and when he decided not to renew that Telecommunications Act AT&T

[01:58:05] I was doing B2B still with them at the time and they were focused on moving into local because

[01:58:09] that's still when Bell south and you know you had those companies that were handling the local

[01:58:13] services when they didn't renew that Telecommunications Act through Congress AT&T couldn't go into

[01:58:19] local anymore and had to laze that lay off the clothes my whole house so I literally saw directly

[01:58:26] how a politicians decision affected my life right so that was the first time I was laid off and then

[01:58:33] that was 2005 I was a trade show account manager for three more years and then the bigger session

[01:58:38] and then I was laid off again right and I felt like um you know I had worked so hard for all these

[01:58:43] corporations I had done all you know what I was supposed to do when to college got the job state

[01:58:48] there and been laid off twice and didn't have anything to show for that um so where was the

[01:58:52] investment in in me in my community when I had invested so much in myself into these other companies

[01:58:58] and so that's kind of how I got into switching um over to funds development I was trying to figure out

[01:59:03] what to do next I've been doing sales incorporate you know for all this time and the

[01:59:08] account management had always been a writer and had a friend and said you said a grant writing class

[01:59:13] and I was like yeah maybe I should started grant writing in here I am 15 years later um but I

[01:59:19] say all that to say is that it is all intersectional intersectional right politics is local and

[01:59:25] you think that voting for your president doesn't affect you that affected me right just as voting

[01:59:31] for my mayor can affect me just voting for it my school board member can affect me my city

[01:59:35] council person my public service commissioner all that affects me so um yeah that's my mom

[01:59:42] shall I keep preaching it amen sister amen so tell people how they can get in touch with you

[01:59:51] your organizations all that stuff sure you can find black girls to politics wrong all the social

[01:59:57] media so it's instagram social media um instagram i g x I guess now even though we don't you know

[02:00:05] participate much on x anymore um and we were actually about the start um dropping new podcast this

[02:00:11] year and so up but you know in the next couple of weeks you should definitely um start to gain some

[02:00:16] episodes from us this year as well as we're about to start recruiting for fellows um for this year

[02:00:23] and so we're looking forward to be able to launch that program in 2024 relaunch it in 2024

[02:00:29] and then you could always find me on LinkedIn i'm a Lexus Buchanan Thomas on LinkedIn I'd love to

[02:00:34] engage with our politics love to also support folks in their endeavors um so definitely reach out

[02:00:41] well sister Alexis i appreciate you coming on um and uh again i'm honored to have you

[02:00:48] uh on the podcast and just keep doing what you're doing because we need it we need it right and

[02:00:55] i greatly appreciate well thank you for having me and thanks again for providing this voice like

[02:01:00] i said before we all have a place to play in the movement so just even providing the space where

[02:01:05] people can you know get on and hear folks talk about these issues is is a part of movement too so

[02:01:10] thank you all right all right guys we're going to catch all on the other side

[02:01:33] all right and we are back so um as i close out i just want to thank my guest

[02:01:41] for coming on what a cool show uh you know one of privileges of being able to do this podcast is

[02:01:50] being able to meet people who are doing the thing some you may have seen on the news some you may

[02:01:56] not have but they're doing what needs to be done uh at all different levels to make sure that

[02:02:03] society is better for all of us uh especially those of us in the African-American community

[02:02:09] but primarily as Americans as a whole and uh you know everybody's got to play their part i'm doing my

[02:02:20] part being a little podcast you know um so just understand that we're all in this together

[02:02:31] and no matter how trippy you think your contribution may be um a man once said that you know when

[02:02:43] you throw a pond in the lake each one of those ripples has an effect on the entire lake so

[02:02:51] no matter how big your ripple is keep doing what you're doing and together we're going to make it

[02:02:58] through not just 2024 but beyond all right guys thanks for listening until next time

[02:03:28] you