In this last episode of 2024, Jessica Weinstein, LCSW/Psychotherapist and Democratic Party activist, and Dr. Tammy Greer, Director of the BIS Social Entrepreneurship Program at Georgia State University, offer their perspectives on why Georgia performed better than any other swing state in the 2024 election, as well as opinions on other key issues.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Eric Fleming, host of A Moment with Eric Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:02 --> 00:01:07 this moment a movement thanks in advance for supporting the podcast of our time
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 i hope you enjoy this episode as well,
00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 the following program is hosted by the nbg podcast network.
00:01:16 --> 00:01:55 Music.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Eric Fleming. I am your host, Eric Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:06 So first of all, let me wish everybody a happy new year because some of y'all
00:02:06 --> 00:02:08 won't hear this until the new year.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:15 As this episode is being dropped, we are on the eve of the eve of 2025.
00:02:16 --> 00:02:25 And yeah, which means that we'll be about three weeks away from the inauguration
00:02:25 --> 00:02:29 of the 47th President of the United States, who also happened to have been the
00:02:29 --> 00:02:31 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:38 So 2025 is going to be an interesting year. So what I wanted to do was kick
00:02:38 --> 00:02:43 it off with a couple of guests, a couple of young ladies who have done a lot
00:02:43 --> 00:02:45 of work here in Georgia politically,
00:02:46 --> 00:02:49 one from the activist side and one from the academic side.
00:02:49 --> 00:02:56 And I hope that you really, really enjoy the conversation as much as I did having it with them.
00:02:56 --> 00:03:03 And hopefully we'll have them back on the podcast numerous times as we go through
00:03:03 --> 00:03:11 this journey, for lack of a better term, with the 47th presidential administration.
00:03:12 --> 00:03:17 You know, I hope everybody has been celebrating those of us in African-American
00:03:17 --> 00:03:23 community, Kwanzaa in a good way. I hope that people in the Jewish community
00:03:23 --> 00:03:25 have been celebrating Hanukkah in a good way.
00:03:26 --> 00:03:33 You know, one interesting things that I found out about Hanukkah is that one
00:03:33 --> 00:03:40 of the rituals or one of the traditions is that they read Psalms 30.
00:03:41 --> 00:03:45 And for those of you who are not familiar with Psalms 30, if you've been to
00:03:45 --> 00:03:51 a black funeral, you have heard this phrase, weeping may endure through the
00:03:51 --> 00:03:56 night, but joy cometh in the morning. That's from Psalms 30.
00:03:56 --> 00:04:05 And so in the Jewish community, they read that song and that should be a reminder
00:04:05 --> 00:04:10 to all of us here in America that no matter how dark it's going to be,
00:04:11 --> 00:04:16 no matter how troubling this may be.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:21 If we live for tomorrow, there will be joy on the other side.
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 And so our goal is to
00:04:25 --> 00:04:31 follow the Apostle Paul's advice and to keep pressing to the high mark and to
00:04:31 --> 00:04:38 keep going till we can get to an America where we all feel as though that we're
00:04:38 --> 00:04:45 first class citizens and that we can live and live abundantly. Right.
00:04:45 --> 00:04:49 And I'm not trying to preach to y'all today, but I just I just want y'all to
00:04:49 --> 00:04:53 understand that we're going to get through this.
00:04:55 --> 00:05:00 And, you know, no matter what path it takes, we're going to get through it.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:07 And I firmly believe that. And I'm not talking about getting a reward in the afterlife.
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 I'm talking about while I'm living, we're going to get through this.
00:05:11 --> 00:05:18 And I greatly appreciate you all listening to this podcast as we go on this
00:05:18 --> 00:05:24 journey together and as we continue to strive and fight to get to the other side.
00:05:24 --> 00:05:30 All right. So let's get this party going. And as always, we started off with a moment of news.
00:05:32 --> 00:05:38 Music.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:41 All right, as you have noticed, I am not Grace G.
00:05:42 --> 00:05:46 Grace came down with some kind of illness,
00:05:46 --> 00:05:54 and she wasn't able to do her normal news thing, so I want to wish her a speedy
00:05:54 --> 00:06:00 recovery and a prosperous new year in 2025.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:02 Hopefully a healthier one.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:08 So I'm going to miss you, Grace, but we're going to we're going to go ahead and knock this news out.
00:06:08 --> 00:06:16 And again, I'm going to show everybody why Grace is better doing this job. I am.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 Congress passed a spending bill to prevent a government shutdown,
00:06:19 --> 00:06:24 extending funding until March and providing disaster and farm aid,
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 despite earlier disruptions caused by President-elect Trump and Elon Musk.
00:06:29 --> 00:06:35 President Biden commuted the sentences of 37 federal death row inmates to life imprisonment.
00:06:35 --> 00:06:40 A House Ethics Committee report revealed former Congressman Matt Gaetz paid
00:06:40 --> 00:06:47 women for drugs and sex, leading to his resignation and withdrawal from consideration as attorney general.
00:06:48 --> 00:06:52 Luigi Mangione pled not guilty to charges of murder and terrorism in the fatal
00:06:52 --> 00:06:57 shooting of health insurance executive Brian Thompson in Manhattan.
00:06:57 --> 00:07:03 President Biden secured his 235th judicial appointment, surpassing Trump's first
00:07:03 --> 00:07:08 term record and emphasizing diversity with a substantial number of women and
00:07:08 --> 00:07:10 people of color appointed.
00:07:10 --> 00:07:14 The president would later veto the Bipartisan Judges Act, which would have been
00:07:14 --> 00:07:19 the first significant expansion of the federal judiciary since 1990.
00:07:19 --> 00:07:24 A judge postponed the trial of Ryan Roth, accused of attempting to assassinate
00:07:24 --> 00:07:30 President-elect Trump to September 25th due to the complexity of the case.
00:07:30 --> 00:07:35 The Biden administration withdrew a proposed rule that would have stopped schools
00:07:35 --> 00:07:41 from banning transgender athletes, citing public opposition and ongoing lawsuits.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:46 A construction executive plans to plead guilty to conspiracy for making illegal
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 contributions to New York City Mayor Eric Adams campaign.
00:07:50 --> 00:07:54 Federal judge ruled against parts of an Arkansas law that would have criminalized
00:07:54 --> 00:07:59 librarians and booksellers for providing harmful materials to minors.
00:07:59 --> 00:08:04 More than 5 Starbucks workers across 12 major U.S.
00:08:04 --> 00:08:08 Cities took part in a five-day work stoppage As the union and the company are
00:08:08 --> 00:08:14 in dispute over wages and working conditions And former U.S.
00:08:14 --> 00:08:18 President Jimmy Carter, the 39th President of the United States,
00:08:18 --> 00:08:25 has died at the age of 100 This has been a moment of news.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:33 Music.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:38 Now, it's time for my first guest, Jessica Weinstein.
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 With over a decade of dedication to social work,
00:08:41 --> 00:08:45 Jessica's role, I should say,
00:08:45 --> 00:08:50 as a psychotherapist at ThriveWorks and as the founder of Georgia Women for
00:08:50 --> 00:08:58 Biden-Harris slash Warnock Ossoff slash Harris-Waltz slash democracy reflects
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 her commitment to advocacy and mental health.
00:09:01 --> 00:09:06 Her expertise in reproductive rights and building coalitions is central to her
00:09:06 --> 00:09:10 work, where she strives to create meaningful change.
00:09:11 --> 00:09:17 As a psychotherapist, she applies these competencies daily, contributing to
00:09:17 --> 00:09:20 a culture that values diversity, empowerment, and progressive action.
00:09:21 --> 00:09:27 Jessica's mission as a therapist is to foster inclusive communities and advocating
00:09:27 --> 00:09:28 for those who need a voice.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:39 And I can tell you that she is probably one of the most active Democrats in the state of Georgia.
00:09:39 --> 00:09:47 And it is really, really an honor and a treat for me to be able to get her to come on the podcast.
00:09:47 --> 00:09:51 So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a
00:09:51 --> 00:09:55 guest on this podcast, Jessica Weinstein.
00:09:56 --> 00:10:06 Music.
00:10:06 --> 00:10:11 All right. Jessica Weinstein, happy holidays to you. How are you doing?
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14 Happy holidays. I'm doing really well. How about you?
00:10:15 --> 00:10:20 I'm doing fine. I'm really, really honored to get you on the podcast because
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 I've only been in Georgia since 2017.
00:10:24 --> 00:10:29 But in all of my algorithms, social media feeds and all that,
00:10:29 --> 00:10:35 when it comes to democratic politics in Georgia, you always pop up in some kind of way.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:40 You are probably one of the most connected activists in the state.
00:10:41 --> 00:10:47 And so I wanted to definitely pick your brain about what's going on or what
00:10:47 --> 00:10:51 did go on in Georgia and the path moving forward.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:57 But what I so what I want to do at the beginning is I always do an icebreaker
00:10:57 --> 00:10:59 and throw a quote at the guests.
00:10:59 --> 00:11:04 So this is your quote. We either make ourselves happy or miserable.
00:11:05 --> 00:11:09 The amount of work is the same. What does that quote mean to you?
00:11:09 --> 00:11:15 What that means to me is, as a therapist also who works in mental health,
00:11:16 --> 00:11:21 you put the same effort into being miserable because you have to actively think
00:11:21 --> 00:11:26 about what's making you miserable to be miserable as you do being happy.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:30 Because if you replace those unhappy thoughts with, well, here's what I have
00:11:30 --> 00:11:36 to be grateful for, you create an aura around you that's going to attract happy. So you choose.
00:11:37 --> 00:11:39 We attract what we put out.
00:11:39 --> 00:11:43 And that quote means pick which one you want to be, basically.
00:11:44 --> 00:11:47 Yeah. Well, that definitely can apply in politics as well.
00:11:48 --> 00:11:53 100%. You know, especially in the times that we're in.
00:11:53 --> 00:11:57 Yeah. But but I want to delve real quick before we get into the political stuff.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:03 You've been licensed counselor, social worker.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:05 Is that am I saying that right? Licensed certified.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:10 Yeah. Licensed clinical social worker, licensed clinical social worker and a
00:12:10 --> 00:12:12 psychotherapist for about 12 years. Right.
00:12:13 --> 00:12:20 Right. OK, so one of the one of my pet issues when I was in the legislature
00:12:20 --> 00:12:25 in Mississippi was mental health. And I was very fortunate to have a couple
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 of guests recently talk about it in an instance.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:34 Talk about what the challenges are in Georgia as far as dealing with mental health.
00:12:35 --> 00:12:42 And just give me an analysis observation of what you deal with and what you're seeing.
00:12:43 --> 00:12:48 Yeah, so I'll tell you, the major access in Georgia is access to care,
00:12:48 --> 00:12:52 funding for care, that kind of thing.
00:12:52 --> 00:12:57 I started working in mental health by doing home visits in Appalachia for severely
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 mentally ill adults in Georgia.
00:12:59 --> 00:13:05 And I did those through a state-funded program at the time that provided intensive
00:13:05 --> 00:13:09 care to patients who were severely mentally ill and in poverty.
00:13:10 --> 00:13:16 That program now doesn't exist. because it was cut with the funding cuts that
00:13:16 --> 00:13:18 our governor likes to pass.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:24 So what I would say is the struggle is access to care because what we know,
00:13:24 --> 00:13:28 and I'm currently in my doctorate studying the correlation between poverty and mental health,
00:13:29 --> 00:13:35 specifically in women, but we know that if your needs aren't met on a basic level,
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 food, clean water,
00:13:38 --> 00:13:40 clean environment, place to live.
00:13:41 --> 00:13:44 Health care, your mental health is going to be worse.
00:13:44 --> 00:13:50 There is no other way to say it. And so the struggle in Georgia is we're one
00:13:50 --> 00:13:55 of the states that didn't expand Medicaid. We don't have access to basic mental
00:13:55 --> 00:13:56 health care that's affordable.
00:13:57 --> 00:14:01 And that's the major struggle here. If we took care of people's need,
00:14:01 --> 00:14:08 as we should with Medicaid expansion, more access to government benefits to health families,
00:14:08 --> 00:14:13 the mental health parity here wouldn't be what it is, I feel like,
00:14:13 --> 00:14:14 but we don't take care of either.
00:14:15 --> 00:14:24 Yeah. So what was the issue with mental health, the work that you do with your clients,
00:14:24 --> 00:14:32 did that lead you to become a Democrat or were you a Democrat prior to all that? No.
00:14:32 --> 00:14:38 So having grown up in rural Appalachia also, I grew up in a family that was
00:14:38 --> 00:14:41 very conservative, still are.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:46 I'm the only one in my family who isn't. And what happened was I,
00:14:46 --> 00:14:50 you know, my whole life I was told, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, right?
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53 What I had to realize is not everybody has boots.
00:14:53 --> 00:14:58 How do you pull yourself up if you don't have boots? Your basic necessities.
00:14:58 --> 00:15:01 So I moved away to go to college.
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 Well, moved away. I went to Georgia State, so downtown Atlanta.
00:15:04 --> 00:15:12 But I came in contact with a lot of people I learned a lot from and exposed
00:15:12 --> 00:15:13 myself to different ideas.
00:15:14 --> 00:15:18 And that's when I really made the shift into more democratic politics.
00:15:18 --> 00:15:21 I wasn't super political before that.
00:15:21 --> 00:15:26 I just didn't know a lot about it. Because funny aside, I grew up going to school
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 where Tommy Benton taught history.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:31 Do you remember? Do you know much about Tommy Benton in Georgia?
00:15:32 --> 00:15:40 He was an elected House member here for 15 years who made the news because he said the KKK wasn't bad.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:43 They kept people in line. Oh, okay.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:47 He taught history in the schools I grew up in, going to.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:53 So that's what I grew up around. And so for me, it was getting out there,
00:15:53 --> 00:15:55 experiencing things for myself.
00:15:55 --> 00:16:00 Now, I grew up in poverty, but I didn't grow up in poverty like a lot of other
00:16:00 --> 00:16:03 people, right? I'm still privileged. in a lot of ways.
00:16:04 --> 00:16:09 And so starting my career and doing these home visits for people at Appalachia
00:16:09 --> 00:16:14 who literally barely had shoes and helping them, it opens your eyes.
00:16:14 --> 00:16:19 Like, what are we doing for people here? We're not doing enough.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:24 And, you know, I could help them at that level, the basic level where I was
00:16:24 --> 00:16:28 and going to their homes and checking in and getting them food and all of that.
00:16:28 --> 00:16:33 But if nothing changed on the macro level, then what was it for?
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 Right? They're going to keep struggling. So that's where I started veering into
00:16:37 --> 00:16:41 politics, because I knew the only way to help that was to get involved.
00:16:42 --> 00:16:46 Yeah. You know, it's interesting. See, I grew up in Chicago.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:51 And what I tell people all the time is like, Chicago is so democratic.
00:16:52 --> 00:16:58 My precinct captain was my little league coach right so you know it was just
00:16:58 --> 00:17:05 kind of a way and so me you know wanting to be in politics i just learned what
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 the democratic party was about.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 And you know i felt comfortable staying with
00:17:11 --> 00:17:14 it and and just worked my when i got to mississippi worked
00:17:14 --> 00:17:18 my way you know through the process but my
00:17:18 --> 00:17:26 my great aunt al her full name was alton or alton but we called her on al she
00:17:26 --> 00:17:33 was what we call a mugwump she was a black republican to the day she died and
00:17:33 --> 00:17:35 i'll never forget not too long after i got elected.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 She said she used to call me Duckman. I'll tell you the story another day.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:45 She said, Duckman, why are you a Democrat? She said, first of all,
00:17:45 --> 00:17:47 do you believe in God? I said, yes, ma'am.
00:17:47 --> 00:17:50 She said, you're a patriot, right? I said, yes, ma'am. Well, why are you a Democrat?
00:17:50 --> 00:17:56 And I had to explain to her that the Democratic Party is the oldest political
00:17:56 --> 00:17:57 party in the United States.
00:17:57 --> 00:18:01 And I understand you grew up in a time where the Democrats and you grew up in
00:18:01 --> 00:18:04 a part of the country where the Democrats weren't friendly to black folks.
00:18:05 --> 00:18:11 Right. But I grew up in a different generation and a different environment.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:16 And the Democratic Party in my lifetime, the Democratic Party was the one fighting for black folk.
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 So it was just natural for me to stay with that.
00:18:20 --> 00:18:28 So I'm always fascinated how people get to where they are in their journey.
00:18:29 --> 00:18:33 But you've taken it to an incredible height. Like I said at the beginning of
00:18:33 --> 00:18:38 this interview, when whenever I see a picture, whether, you know,
00:18:38 --> 00:18:42 Senator Warnock, Senator Ossoff, Congresswoman Williams.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:48 President Biden, Michelle Obama, you're in the picture.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:55 You and you have done a lot of organizing. So what what made you take it to another level?
00:18:56 --> 00:19:00 It's one thing to support the Democratic Party and vote and all that.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 But you've taken it to another level as an activist.
00:19:02 --> 00:19:07 What what triggered you to become more of this Democratic activist that you've been?
00:19:08 --> 00:19:12 I think as someone who does the work I do.
00:19:12 --> 00:19:17 So I'm a full time therapist in addition to this. And so seeing people at that
00:19:17 --> 00:19:22 level, because the people I see are typically very mentally ill.
00:19:22 --> 00:19:27 A lot of them, you know, may struggle financially, not all, but you see it on
00:19:27 --> 00:19:32 a day-to-day level, and I don't know how anybody could see that and not feel
00:19:32 --> 00:19:34 like I've got to do something.
00:19:34 --> 00:19:36 I understand not everybody can, right?
00:19:36 --> 00:19:41 I'm, you know, I know I'm privileged in that way, but I think for me,
00:19:41 --> 00:19:49 it's I feel like I'm fighting for people that I'm working with and working for, and people in general.
00:19:49 --> 00:19:54 You know, I have two children and I take them to a lot of these events with
00:19:54 --> 00:19:59 me because, and not just events, we go volunteer, knock doors,
00:19:59 --> 00:20:02 all of this stuff, because I want them to see,
00:20:03 --> 00:20:07 what I didn't see growing up is that, you know, there are people who don't have what you have.
00:20:08 --> 00:20:13 And it's important that if you have something, you step up to give to other people.
00:20:13 --> 00:20:20 And so I think that, you know, that way of thinking and the fact that I'm constantly
00:20:20 --> 00:20:24 thinking my kids laugh at me sometimes, they'll ask me a basic question,
00:20:24 --> 00:20:26 mom, what's going on today?
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 Or, and, you know, my first thought is, well, these people are being blocked
00:20:30 --> 00:20:32 from access to voting or to food.
00:20:33 --> 00:20:38 My mind is constantly thinking about people who struggle and what can I do.
00:20:38 --> 00:20:42 And I don't know if I was born that way or if it's just who I am,
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 but that's what pushes me.
00:20:44 --> 00:20:51 And what I know, having been born and raised in Georgia, and what I always tell these people in D.C.
00:20:51 --> 00:20:57 Or other states that don't know Georgia well, we can't stop fighting here.
00:20:57 --> 00:21:03 You kind of have to fight at every level, because the minute you think you won
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 something, the Republicans here are going to try to take it.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:11 For example, I ran Georgia Women for Biden on the first Biden campaign here
00:21:11 --> 00:21:16 in Georgia, and I worked with a coalition of other women from different states.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 I think we were the largest coalition on that campaign that year.
00:21:20 --> 00:21:23 But having worked with them and after we won, I kept hearing,
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 oh, you're blue now, you're blue. And I kept saying, no, we're not.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 Look at the House and Senate here. Look at the governor.
00:21:31 --> 00:21:34 This is a fight. And what did they do right after Biden won?
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 They passed the restrictive voting laws.
00:21:38 --> 00:21:43 So my thinking is the minute you let up, they'll pull something else.
00:21:44 --> 00:21:50 The heartbeat bill, tons of other bills that I think most people don't even know are passing.
00:21:50 --> 00:21:54 You know, if you're not down at the Capitol, if you're not talking with electeds,
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 if you're not connecting with people, you don't know what's coming at you.
00:21:58 --> 00:22:04 Yeah. Yeah. And I always used to stress that it always had to be a two tier fight.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:09 It's one thing to have people elected in the building, but you still have to
00:22:09 --> 00:22:11 have grassroots organizing outside
00:22:11 --> 00:22:17 of the building to keep the pressure on because it means a lot more.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:21 And I used to tell my colleagues, it meant a lot more when I stood in the well
00:22:21 --> 00:22:26 and if people looked outside, there were like 10 people outside,
00:22:26 --> 00:22:31 you know, and the gallery was full on the inside as opposed to just me getting
00:22:31 --> 00:22:34 up there and being the loyal opposition about something.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:41 Now, fortunately for me, I was in the last majority Democratic House in the state of Mississippi.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:44 So thank you for your service yeah
00:22:44 --> 00:22:51 it was like my my my successor she she she caught it you know now she was a
00:22:51 --> 00:22:57 lot nicer to me so she than me so she navigated a little better but she she
00:22:57 --> 00:23:02 caught the the beginning of the republican wave there mississippi on the house side anyway.
00:23:04 --> 00:23:08 So let me ask you this because you you you're more than just somebody that shows
00:23:08 --> 00:23:14 up at events You're you're in the in the trenches and stuff and you you do a lot of organizing.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:21 Why do you think that Georgia outperformed all of the other swing states in the 2024 election?
00:23:22 --> 00:23:26 Because, you know, everybody's like, well, she lost this and she lost that.
00:23:26 --> 00:23:27 She lost all the swing states.
00:23:27 --> 00:23:33 But Georgia was very interesting to me because Biden only won by a little more
00:23:33 --> 00:23:36 than 11000, close to 12000 votes.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:41 Vice President Harris outperformed him by 70 votes.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:48 But then Donald Trump, who needed those 12 votes, he ended up getting 200 votes.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:54 So why do you think that the people in Georgia showed up more so than in the
00:23:54 --> 00:23:59 other swing states where you saw a decline in voter participation?
00:24:00 --> 00:24:04 So here's one thing I'll tell you. First of all, I think Trump overperformed
00:24:04 --> 00:24:09 here because last time he told everybody not to show up, and this time he told them to show up.
00:24:09 --> 00:24:16 So we're in Georgia. We know, unfortunately, he still has more voters here than us.
00:24:16 --> 00:24:24 But the reason we performed as well as we did is that they were using,
00:24:24 --> 00:24:28 the Democratic Party was using the playbook we used to win for Biden and Warnock
00:24:28 --> 00:24:30 when I worked on those campaigns.
00:24:30 --> 00:24:33 For example, you know that big rally with Obama in Clarkston?
00:24:34 --> 00:24:39 So when I worked for Senator Warnock, I was his director of women's engagement.
00:24:39 --> 00:24:43 And his political director at the time planned an event for him in Clarkston.
00:24:44 --> 00:24:49 And when we saw, so first of all, when we got there at that event for Senator
00:24:49 --> 00:24:52 Warnock in the first race, people were in tears in Clarkston.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:56 Nobody ever comes here. We feel unseen.
00:24:56 --> 00:25:01 We heard that on that campaign at a lot of stops, Augusta, Macon, Columbus.
00:25:02 --> 00:25:09 And when we saw this event with Barack Obama and Kamala in Clarkston,
00:25:09 --> 00:25:13 my friends from that campaign were texting each other, oh my God, they're going to do it.
00:25:14 --> 00:25:20 So that's what they did is they took that winning playbook of you literally
00:25:20 --> 00:25:22 have to touch every part of this state.
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 Because in prior elections, I think, you know.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:32 It may have been taken for granted, like South Georgia, Middle Georgia. They hit Atlanta.
00:25:32 --> 00:25:37 We got Atlanta. We always do. You've got to hit the areas where people don't feel seen and heard.
00:25:38 --> 00:25:41 And what I saw in this election season was they did.
00:25:42 --> 00:25:46 They, you know, had events in South Georgia. They had campaign offices.
00:25:46 --> 00:25:50 They even had a campaign event in my hometown.
00:25:50 --> 00:25:56 I was a little scared to show up, but I went and like over 400 people showed up.
00:25:56 --> 00:26:03 I mean, it was a, so I think the more we build on that, the better.
00:26:03 --> 00:26:08 I think where we didn't over perform over Trump, I think, first of all,
00:26:08 --> 00:26:13 again, he told everybody to come out this time, you know, and I think the white
00:26:13 --> 00:26:17 conservative evangelical voters know that they're losing ground.
00:26:17 --> 00:26:22 And so they think they're fighting for, you know, their last breath of freedom there.
00:26:22 --> 00:26:24 So they're going to show up. They feel threatened.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:32 But I also think we did a good job of getting everybody out. We could.
00:26:32 --> 00:26:36 You still had the voter suppression at play in Georgia.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:40 You know, look at that county right now. I forget which one that's having a
00:26:40 --> 00:26:42 recount because the wrong ballots were sent out.
00:26:43 --> 00:26:48 They left off one of the candidates name. I mean, you know, there's all kinds
00:26:48 --> 00:26:53 of stuff I feel like going on behind the scenes or the fake bomb threats that
00:26:53 --> 00:26:57 were, you know, and primarily communities of color during that election.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:02 They were actively taking steps to try to block the Democratic win.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:08 So the fact that Kamala performed as well as she did and the Democratic Party did is huge.
00:27:09 --> 00:27:13 Yeah. And it just goes back to retail politics.
00:27:13 --> 00:27:17 Politics and I think that was that's been part of the discussion at the national
00:27:17 --> 00:27:19 level that they felt that.
00:27:20 --> 00:27:23 You know, the people that were advising the vice president was not,
00:27:24 --> 00:27:33 you know, they were more concerned about media and staying on message as opposed
00:27:33 --> 00:27:39 to really fanning out and doing what Senator Warnock.
00:27:39 --> 00:27:45 I mean, I'd say that he was, and I assume Ossoff had a pretty good operation,
00:27:45 --> 00:27:47 too, but Senator Warnock,
00:27:48 --> 00:27:53 especially when he ran against Social Walker, was very, very committed to making
00:27:53 --> 00:27:59 sure that every nook and cranny of the state of Georgia had his presence.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:06 And I just always believe that the best way to campaign is to go to the people.
00:28:06 --> 00:28:10 You know, you can only reach so many people with television.
00:28:10 --> 00:28:13 You can only reach so many people with a social media post.
00:28:13 --> 00:28:17 But when you get to their homes, that that that means a whole lot.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:24 And as somebody that's run statewide myself, I did the thing you were talking about Clarkson.
00:28:24 --> 00:28:29 I remember it was a town Stonewall, Mississippi, and they were saying the same thing.
00:28:29 --> 00:28:32 It was like nobody running for the Senate ever shows up.
00:28:33 --> 00:28:38 And so it was like a big deal when I came. I mean, the weekly papers showed up. I mean, everybody.
00:28:39 --> 00:28:45 And it wasn't a plan stop. It was just a lady that was running for judge, lived in Stonewall.
00:28:46 --> 00:28:50 And she heard me speak in another city in that judicial district.
00:28:50 --> 00:28:52 And she said, I need you to come to my town.
00:28:53 --> 00:28:56 And, you know, I came to her fundraiser.
00:28:57 --> 00:29:02 But it was like it was a big event. So it just it just means a whole lot.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:09 And I really wish that the national Democrats would listen to the people on
00:29:09 --> 00:29:12 the ground and trust them to do what needs to be done,
00:29:12 --> 00:29:19 because Georgia is clearly the best case example of how retail politics works. Yep.
00:29:20 --> 00:29:27 So having said all that, what do you think it will take to flip the state legislature
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 and the statewide offices blue in the upcoming elections?
00:29:31 --> 00:29:41 Because it's a, you know, it's a sad picture to me when I see that every statewide
00:29:41 --> 00:29:46 elected official in the state of Georgia has the same demographic,
00:29:46 --> 00:29:49 middle-aged white man.
00:29:50 --> 00:29:54 Yep. It was like when you took that picture of all the seven statewides together, I'm like,
00:29:55 --> 00:29:58 What did you know, the old Sesame Street game? What doesn't belong here?
00:29:58 --> 00:30:02 Well, they all fit. You can't take one without the other.
00:30:02 --> 00:30:06 So what is it going to take to get Georgia to a point where,
00:30:06 --> 00:30:13 you know, those 22 counties where the Democrats have strength in the Atlanta metro area?
00:30:13 --> 00:30:16 How can that increase in the black belt?
00:30:16 --> 00:30:22 How that can increase in Columbus and Macon and Savannah and Milledgeville and
00:30:22 --> 00:30:26 all that? Because Georgia actually lost three counties that they had won in 2020.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:34 I think you need candidates on the ground talking to people about their daily
00:30:34 --> 00:30:37 struggles. And I think a lot of our candidates did.
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 But, you know, the messaging is important. And kind of like you were talking
00:30:42 --> 00:30:47 about before was, you know, you can't reach everybody by email or Internet or whatever.
00:30:48 --> 00:30:50 Right. Because in the black belt or in rural parts of the county,
00:30:50 --> 00:30:52 they don't have reliable Internet.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:55 You have to go. There are different things that work.
00:30:55 --> 00:31:01 I think, honestly, if people were able to, and I know not everybody is,
00:31:01 --> 00:31:06 but to sit down at the state capitol in some of these hearings and listen to
00:31:06 --> 00:31:07 some of the stuff that is said,
00:31:08 --> 00:31:11 they would want to go vote that person out the minute they could.
00:31:12 --> 00:31:17 But I think it takes a political awareness or education about a lot of stuff
00:31:17 --> 00:31:22 on some level, because if you think about it in, you know, like rural parts
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 of the state, if people are just struggling to survive,
00:31:25 --> 00:31:27 they're not going to have when you're struggling to survive,
00:31:27 --> 00:31:32 you can't think about who's running for office and why and who you need to go vote for.
00:31:32 --> 00:31:35 So that goes back to taking care of basic needs.
00:31:35 --> 00:31:41 But I think as far as candidates go, I think we need more funding for our rural
00:31:41 --> 00:31:42 candidates from the party.
00:31:42 --> 00:31:46 I think we need more investment in our rural candidates.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:52 And I think, you know, we need more reach to the local people.
00:31:52 --> 00:32:01 Do you think that we need to have candidates not from Atlanta or Savannah running
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 for statewide office as opposed to,
00:32:04 --> 00:32:09 you know, because it's like you have a plethora of talent in the metro area
00:32:09 --> 00:32:12 and where you have Democratic pockets.
00:32:13 --> 00:32:17 That's where usually you get your folks from. But I'm trying to remember where
00:32:17 --> 00:32:24 the young lady was from that ran for ag commissioner. I don't think she's from the Atlanta area.
00:32:25 --> 00:32:31 She's not. Yeah. So do you think that if there was more of an effort to get
00:32:31 --> 00:32:34 people, I mean, that's a problem in every state, right?
00:32:34 --> 00:32:38 Because it's like in Mississippi, Jackson was the centerpiece for everything.
00:32:38 --> 00:32:41 And, you know, Illinois, it's Chicago, right?
00:32:41 --> 00:32:46 So, you know, every state deals with that. But the question is.
00:32:47 --> 00:32:53 Do you feel, well, I'll tell you a quick story. The guy who was the mayor of
00:32:53 --> 00:32:55 Hattiesburg, his name was Johnny Dupree.
00:32:56 --> 00:33:00 And Johnny was the first black man to be elected mayor of Hattiesburg.
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 And he was running against a guy named Bill Luckett.
00:33:04 --> 00:33:08 And Bill was from Clarksdale. So Clarksdale's in the second congressional district,
00:33:08 --> 00:33:14 which I want any Democrat that's breathing wins the second congressional district, right?
00:33:14 --> 00:33:17 And and so bill was there and bill had money
00:33:17 --> 00:33:20 he's partners with morgan freeman and a club up there
00:33:20 --> 00:33:27 in clarksdale and all that stuff and you know people were like saying well y'all
00:33:27 --> 00:33:32 supporting johnny because he's black i said no johnny is from hattiesburg hattiesburg
00:33:32 --> 00:33:37 is in that third congruent that it's a district that we need to win he's an
00:33:37 --> 00:33:40 elected official he's in the largest city,
00:33:40 --> 00:33:44 the second largest city in that district. And he's the mayor.
00:33:45 --> 00:33:55 And, you know, I think if we get him in as opposed to Bill, then,
00:33:55 --> 00:34:00 you know, we'll be able to bring in votes from as part of the state that we normally don't get.
00:34:01 --> 00:34:06 And so, you know, it was a fight between Bill and Mayor Dupree,
00:34:06 --> 00:34:07 but Mayor Dupree won the nomination.
00:34:08 --> 00:34:13 Now, the way Mississippi politics works, if you get over 35%,
00:34:13 --> 00:34:14 that's a victory, right?
00:34:15 --> 00:34:22 But, you know, the thing was, we did see an increase in Democratic support in
00:34:22 --> 00:34:25 that southern part of the state that we needed.
00:34:25 --> 00:34:32 And so, you know, maybe in the short term, it didn't work, but in the long term, you're cultivating.
00:34:32 --> 00:34:35 And if you stay engaged, I'll see you next time.
00:34:35 --> 00:34:38 You can continue to do some things.
00:34:39 --> 00:34:45 So I don't know, do you think Georgia needs the same kind of approach or what?
00:34:45 --> 00:34:50 Yeah, I mean, I think, and not just maybe statewide office, also in like party
00:34:50 --> 00:34:56 leadership or, you know, included in leadership roles in the party.
00:34:56 --> 00:35:01 I will say the Democratic Party this year did a very good job of like the state
00:35:01 --> 00:35:05 committee meetings were in more rural areas. They weren't all in Atlanta.
00:35:05 --> 00:35:10 So I think they're trying, but I think definitely.
00:35:10 --> 00:35:14 Yeah, you're going to, it's exciting when you have somebody in a big spot,
00:35:14 --> 00:35:18 you know, like running for, like Senator Warnock, I know he lives in Atlanta,
00:35:18 --> 00:35:24 but he's from Savannah and we got huge turnout in Savannah for him.
00:35:24 --> 00:35:27 And so I think you're onto something there, right?
00:35:27 --> 00:35:34 It's, you know, like those areas that feel so often left out of politics,
00:35:34 --> 00:35:38 left out of who's working for me and like who has my best interest,
00:35:38 --> 00:35:43 because we know South Georgia is different than Atlanta. Their needs are different.
00:35:43 --> 00:35:49 Their infrastructure is different, you know, and it's a representation at a
00:35:49 --> 00:35:53 higher level for people who often feel unheard. So, absolutely.
00:35:53 --> 00:35:59 So, Georgia has more counties than any state other than Texas.
00:36:00 --> 00:36:03 Do you think that's part of the struggle for,
00:36:04 --> 00:36:08 is that there's so many counties that,
00:36:08 --> 00:36:14 you know, there's some additional costs that most states don't have to deal
00:36:14 --> 00:36:20 with as far as getting the vote out and putting together organizations to do what needs to be done?
00:36:21 --> 00:36:24 I don't know if it's the cost. I think didn't the Democratic Party,
00:36:24 --> 00:36:28 we had almost two million left in the fund after this election.
00:36:28 --> 00:36:33 I mean, you were no better than I would. I mean, you raised a good bit of it.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:38 So there was a lot of money left over. So I think we have the funds.
00:36:38 --> 00:36:39 It's the infrastructure.
00:36:39 --> 00:36:46 It's how do we include how are we inclusive of areas? And again,
00:36:46 --> 00:36:51 I think, you know, I'm not at the level high enough where I know all of that.
00:36:51 --> 00:36:54 They might have systems in place that I don't know about, but I'll tell you,
00:36:54 --> 00:36:58 unless it's changed significantly since Warnock ran the first time,
00:36:58 --> 00:37:03 there's not a lot of infrastructure in South Georgia. And so,
00:37:03 --> 00:37:06 you know, it's how do we connect all of that?
00:37:06 --> 00:37:10 Because it can't, the Democratic Party has to be everywhere.
00:37:10 --> 00:37:14 And we have to have representation everywhere if we want people to turn out.
00:37:15 --> 00:37:18 Yeah. Because people don't want to turn out for someone that they don't think
00:37:18 --> 00:37:22 knows anything about them or has their best interest in mind.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 We want someone who's going to represent us or our values. Yeah.
00:37:26 --> 00:37:33 Yeah, I totally agree with that. So I want to close out speaking about people
00:37:33 --> 00:37:36 that need to be or need to feel connected.
00:37:36 --> 00:37:40 You do a lot of work with this organization called Lost and Found Youth.
00:37:40 --> 00:37:47 Kind of talk about that organization and why you got involved with them and all that.
00:37:48 --> 00:37:53 So Lost and Found Youth is amazing. It's an organization that helps teens who
00:37:53 --> 00:37:57 are kicked out of their homes because of their LGBTQ status.
00:37:57 --> 00:38:02 And so they're essentially homeless. We provide housing, training,
00:38:03 --> 00:38:08 food and shelter, and a lot of essential services to try to get them on a good path.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:11 What attracted me to them is their were.
00:38:12 --> 00:38:15 Because there's not another organization like them in the state of Georgia.
00:38:15 --> 00:38:20 And we know that there are a lot of instances here where there's a lot of parents
00:38:20 --> 00:38:25 shutting kids out if they come out or, you know, there's a lot of discrimination.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:27 The other thing is we know that
00:38:27 --> 00:38:32 discrimination against people in the LGBTQ community overall is higher.
00:38:32 --> 00:38:37 And just look at the laws targeting transgender youth in the state of Georgia
00:38:37 --> 00:38:39 or in the South in general.
00:38:39 --> 00:38:45 I can't remember how many, I think 50-something bills tried to be passed just
00:38:45 --> 00:38:47 in the South alone, targeting them.
00:38:48 --> 00:38:54 So my desire is to help, you know, who needs to help the most right now?
00:38:54 --> 00:38:56 And that's a community that is consistently targeted in Georgia.
00:38:57 --> 00:39:00 And this organization does a lot of really good work.
00:39:00 --> 00:39:05 There was an instance a few years ago where a kid was kicked out of his house
00:39:05 --> 00:39:12 on Christmas Eve because his parents found a letter that he was writing to his
00:39:12 --> 00:39:16 partner and they didn't know he was gay and kicked him out.
00:39:16 --> 00:39:22 And the organization, the executive director, Milena Alves, she actually housed
00:39:22 --> 00:39:26 them that night because the hotels were crazy.
00:39:26 --> 00:39:29 She spent all night finding them a place to go.
00:39:30 --> 00:39:33 And so they do that important work where you're not going to be left out in
00:39:33 --> 00:39:37 the cold. We're going to find something for you. We're going to help them.
00:39:37 --> 00:39:41 We employ a lot of the kids at the service center, you know,
00:39:41 --> 00:39:47 if they want, if they're looking for employment and provide basic necessities and training, you know.
00:39:48 --> 00:39:52 So, it's putting them in a spot where they're going to get more support and
00:39:52 --> 00:39:56 be able to contribute, you know, to their own recovery in a way.
00:39:56 --> 00:39:59 So how can people get involved with that?
00:39:59 --> 00:40:05 And how can people get in touch with you if they want to talk to you about Georgia
00:40:05 --> 00:40:10 politics or get involved with being an activist, all that kind of stuff?
00:40:10 --> 00:40:19 Yeah. So for Lost and Found Youth, the website is lnfy.org, like lostandfoundyouth.org.
00:40:19 --> 00:40:24 You can donate. They have a thrift store there, and they also take items for
00:40:24 --> 00:40:25 the kids who are in the shelter.
00:40:25 --> 00:40:29 So you can donate items, clothing. Right now we need winter clothes and those
00:40:29 --> 00:40:33 types of things. They can donate online if they can't make it down there.
00:40:33 --> 00:40:38 And we do various events around the year. So I always share those on my channels.
00:40:39 --> 00:40:42 So to get in touch with me, I'm on Facebook, Jessica Weinstein.
00:40:43 --> 00:40:47 I'm on Instagram. I will send you my handle. It's an old one,
00:40:48 --> 00:40:50 dedicated mama for my two kids.
00:40:51 --> 00:40:55 But they can get in touch with me there and on LinkedIn, Jessica Weinstein.
00:40:55 --> 00:40:57 Well, Jessica Weinstein,
00:40:58 --> 00:41:04 The Democratic Party in Georgia is blessed to have you on their side.
00:41:04 --> 00:41:09 And so are these these young kids that you provide service through lost and found youth.
00:41:11 --> 00:41:15 Even though this is an audio only podcast, I believe the audience hears your
00:41:15 --> 00:41:18 passion about things and why
00:41:18 --> 00:41:23 you are so committed to fighting for what you believe is the right cause.
00:41:24 --> 00:41:29 And I'm really honored not only to formally meet you, but to have you to come
00:41:29 --> 00:41:31 on the podcast. Thank you so much.
00:41:32 --> 00:41:36 No, absolutely. I'm honored to be here and honored to meet you as well.
00:41:36 --> 00:41:40 You're doing a lot of really good work and getting a lot of important information out there.
00:41:40 --> 00:41:44 And you were a part of history, you know, in your elected seat.
00:41:44 --> 00:41:51 And, you know, you're standing up in a lot of areas that it's hard to stand up in. Yeah, yeah.
00:41:51 --> 00:41:55 So thank you. Well, I appreciate that. That's very kind of you.
00:41:55 --> 00:42:03 So, you know, as we as we approach, I do want to ask you this as we approach
00:42:03 --> 00:42:06 this end of the holiday season and we're getting ready to.
00:42:08 --> 00:42:15 Get into this new Trump administration, what would you tell somebody that is
00:42:15 --> 00:42:20 like feeling some kind of way about that, whether it's a client or just a friend?
00:42:20 --> 00:42:28 What word of advice or word of encouragement would you give them in this time?
00:42:28 --> 00:42:31 Well, I'll tell you, I have two different answers to that.
00:42:31 --> 00:42:37 So I do have a lot of clients who are terrified, especially my transgender and
00:42:37 --> 00:42:39 LGBTQ community clients.
00:42:39 --> 00:42:43 And what I tell them is, it's going to be okay.
00:42:43 --> 00:42:48 You're going to be okay. You have people on the ground who are ready to fight
00:42:48 --> 00:42:53 back and stand up and be there to lift you up if you can't be there.
00:42:53 --> 00:42:57 There are enough people fighting for you that we're going to be okay.
00:42:57 --> 00:43:03 What I would tell my friends is, we've got work to do. and we've got to stay
00:43:03 --> 00:43:09 on it and we've got to stand up and show up and speak up for people who can't
00:43:09 --> 00:43:11 because we know that's who he's targeting.
00:43:12 --> 00:43:17 And so like you pointed out with, you know, if 10 people show up to a state
00:43:17 --> 00:43:19 house, you're going to listen, right?
00:43:19 --> 00:43:26 We have to stay alert and aware and educate people, not just ourselves, but spread the message.
00:43:26 --> 00:43:28 Here's what's going on. Here's what we need you to do.
00:43:29 --> 00:43:34 And that's why I do run Georgia Women for Democracy, which you can find on Facebook also.
00:43:34 --> 00:43:39 It's a group of about 16 women where I constantly post action items.
00:43:39 --> 00:43:42 Here's what's going on, because that's what we have to do.
00:43:42 --> 00:43:46 We can't, you know, put our heads in the sand like I know a lot of us want to
00:43:46 --> 00:43:49 do right now, turn off the news and shut it all down.
00:43:49 --> 00:43:54 We have to stay active because that's what he wants and that's what the Republican wants.
00:43:54 --> 00:43:57 They want you to feel defeated so that they can push you down even further.
00:43:58 --> 00:44:01 Well, we'll let that word of encouragement end in the podcast.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:03 Again, thank you for coming on.
00:44:04 --> 00:44:06 Thank you for having me. All right.
00:44:06 --> 00:44:24 Music.
00:44:26 --> 00:44:34 All right. And we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Dr. Tammy Greer.
00:44:34 --> 00:44:40 Dr. Greer currently serves as a clinical assistant professor and director of
00:44:40 --> 00:44:45 the BIS social entrepreneurship in the public management and policy department
00:44:45 --> 00:44:49 in the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies at Georgia State University.
00:44:49 --> 00:44:54 She has a bachelor's degree in criminal justice and a master's of security management,
00:44:54 --> 00:44:59 both from the University of Houston downtown, as well as a Ph.D.
00:44:59 --> 00:45:03 In political science from Clark Atlanta University with focus areas in American
00:45:03 --> 00:45:07 government, including state and local government, urban politics,
00:45:08 --> 00:45:10 comparative politics and international politics.
00:45:10 --> 00:45:14 She has served in numerous capacities in the private sector,
00:45:14 --> 00:45:19 as well as the public sector, including as an educator. Dr.
00:45:19 --> 00:45:24 Greer's interests include community and civic involvement, focusing on how policy
00:45:24 --> 00:45:29 and the lack of equitable public policy impact historically underserved communities.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:36 She advocates for consistent civil engagement and voting, especially in nonpresidential
00:45:36 --> 00:45:41 elections, which means voting for all positions on the ballot. Dr.
00:45:41 --> 00:45:45 Greer serves as a board member on several organizations, including Georgia Women
00:45:45 --> 00:45:50 Connect, Media Policy Center, and the community chair working to create community
00:45:50 --> 00:45:54 garden in an urban food desert community. Dr.
00:45:54 --> 00:45:58 Greer has been interviewed in numerous state, nationwide and international media
00:45:58 --> 00:46:01 outlets, including CNBC.
00:46:01 --> 00:46:06 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, NPR, Washington Post, WGN,
00:46:07 --> 00:46:13 Christian Science Monitor and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution regarding politics and policy.
00:46:13 --> 00:46:17 She is the author of the forthcoming book, Checks Without Change,
00:46:18 --> 00:46:20 Moving from Protest to Policy.
00:46:21 --> 00:46:25 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:46:25 --> 00:46:29 on this podcast, Dr. Tammy Kahn.
00:46:29 --> 00:46:39 Music.
00:46:41 --> 00:46:46 All right. Dr. Tammy Greer, happy holidays to you. How are you doing?
00:46:46 --> 00:46:51 I'm doing well. Happy holidays to you as well. Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
00:46:52 --> 00:46:56 So you're a public policy teacher at Georgia State University.
00:46:58 --> 00:47:04 But you're a little more than that. You're kind of the go-to person in the Atlanta
00:47:04 --> 00:47:08 metro area as far as media goes. They seem to like you a lot,
00:47:08 --> 00:47:13 especially WABE, I think that is, public radio.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:19 They hit you up a lot. So I said, well, let me pick her brain a little bit and
00:47:19 --> 00:47:23 let her get on my podcast and share some of her wisdom with an audience,
00:47:24 --> 00:47:27 you know, my audience, and go from there.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:32 What I'd like to do is start off the conversation with a quote.
00:47:32 --> 00:47:39 So this is your quote. The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are conservative
00:47:39 --> 00:47:44 in their viewpoint because there's an understanding that the United States electorate
00:47:44 --> 00:47:49 in and of itself really is adverse to major change.
00:47:49 --> 00:47:57 Talk to me about that quote. Well, it's simply that the electorate overall is,
00:47:57 --> 00:48:02 and just people overall, right, part of the psychology that comes along with
00:48:02 --> 00:48:04 politics is that people,
00:48:04 --> 00:48:08 generally speaking, in their own personal lives, do not move quickly.
00:48:09 --> 00:48:14 And when it comes to just collective action, collective action doesn't move
00:48:14 --> 00:48:19 quickly either because change is different, change is new, change is uncertain.
00:48:19 --> 00:48:28 So for the vast majority of folks, making big leaps and bounds is unsafe emotionally for folks.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:36 So moving progressively, whatever your definition of progressively means,
00:48:36 --> 00:48:39 generally for the electorate means to move slowly.
00:48:39 --> 00:48:44 So we don't make huge leaps and bounds and changes with any policy,
00:48:44 --> 00:48:48 regardless of what folks will say.
00:48:49 --> 00:48:53 Sometimes policy may move faster than it did in other spaces,
00:48:53 --> 00:48:56 yet and still, progress is slow.
00:48:56 --> 00:49:01 And progress is slow because you have to consider the 326 million people that
00:49:01 --> 00:49:05 live in the United States and the billions of people around the world that are
00:49:05 --> 00:49:07 impacted by the policies within the United States.
00:49:07 --> 00:49:11 So for us to move quickly, whatever,
00:49:11 --> 00:49:15 again, quickly means to some folks, it's just not going to take place because
00:49:15 --> 00:49:22 you have so many other individuals to consider, not including businesses and
00:49:22 --> 00:49:25 other aspects of our society.
00:49:25 --> 00:49:31 It just moves slowly. So when one listens to politics, one would consider,
00:49:31 --> 00:49:36 for example, the Democratic Party to conservatives or to Republicans,
00:49:36 --> 00:49:38 Democratic Party moves fast.
00:49:38 --> 00:49:43 And then to others, the Republican Party or conservatives move very slowly.
00:49:43 --> 00:49:49 But when you really look at the grand scheme of things and we have compromise
00:49:49 --> 00:49:54 and we work together and we understand the different facets of people within
00:49:54 --> 00:49:56 the United States and around the world,
00:49:56 --> 00:50:03 we move at a pace that is consistent with getting folks comfortable with change.
00:50:03 --> 00:50:06 So everyone is averse to change no matter what.
00:50:06 --> 00:50:08 No matter what they say, they are averse to change.
00:50:09 --> 00:50:16 Yet how we move our politics, especially when one considers inclusion or to
00:50:16 --> 00:50:22 reverse or to correct some policies that have discriminatory underpinnings to them,
00:50:23 --> 00:50:25 in order to make that change,
00:50:25 --> 00:50:28 you have to get people comfortable with the change.
00:50:28 --> 00:50:32 And in particular, if I can be specific, the people that you get comfortable
00:50:32 --> 00:50:34 with change are the people that vote.
00:50:34 --> 00:50:39 The people that vote are the ones that say yes or no to policy.
00:50:39 --> 00:50:45 So if you get people who consistently participate in the political process comfortable
00:50:45 --> 00:50:46 with the change, then you can have that.
00:50:47 --> 00:50:52 Yeah, that's pretty profound. I had a social science teacher in high school
00:50:52 --> 00:50:58 that said, when you're young, y'all, y'all are liberal.
00:50:59 --> 00:51:02 He said, when y'all get older, y'all going to get conservative.
00:51:04 --> 00:51:11 So, so, so you agree that it's part of the resistance to change is generational as well.
00:51:12 --> 00:51:17 It's generational. It is your understanding of the world around you.
00:51:18 --> 00:51:20 When you're younger, you know, it's all about you.
00:51:20 --> 00:51:24 You're the center of everyone's universe in your mind.
00:51:24 --> 00:51:31 So the pace to which you want to move, you don't consider the implications on others.
00:51:32 --> 00:51:37 Yet when the older we grow, the more experiences we have,
00:51:37 --> 00:51:43 the more people we meet, the understanding that we are a pebble on this rock,
00:51:43 --> 00:51:50 then we have an understanding that my actions have consequences.
00:51:51 --> 00:51:57 And when I understand my actions have consequences, sometimes folks tend to
00:51:57 --> 00:52:02 rethink or slow down what they're interested in doing.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:07 And part of that slow down, if we can also be specific with that, is explaining.
00:52:08 --> 00:52:11 You know, when we're younger, we don't really explain what we're doing.
00:52:12 --> 00:52:15 We're just like, I'm going to go over here to do the thing so I can get the thing.
00:52:15 --> 00:52:23 But then when we grow older, it becomes an explanation of the thought process behind it,
00:52:23 --> 00:52:30 the understanding of the impact behind the behavior, and then what,
00:52:30 --> 00:52:35 you know, what we hope to gain, yet what we probably could not gain.
00:52:35 --> 00:52:40 And then what adverse actions may happen because of what we do.
00:52:40 --> 00:52:48 So that slowdown is because there's more thought to the decision rather than
00:52:48 --> 00:52:49 just making the decision.
00:52:50 --> 00:52:57 See you. So based on that definition, it sounds like that the current makeup
00:52:57 --> 00:53:01 of the Republican Party has more of a youthful mindset.
00:53:01 --> 00:53:11 And the Democratic Party has more of mature mindset, because when you say all
00:53:11 --> 00:53:16 I think about is my universe and my center, I mean, we've got a congresswoman here in Georgia.
00:53:16 --> 00:53:21 We've got several of them that it's like it's all about their universe,
00:53:21 --> 00:53:27 whereas you have younger people in the Democratic Party, a lot of them,
00:53:27 --> 00:53:29 especially in the House of Representatives,
00:53:29 --> 00:53:35 that seem to be more comfortable in explaining why they want to do,
00:53:36 --> 00:53:40 even if it's a radical change, they seem more comfortable explaining that.
00:53:42 --> 00:53:45 Am I wrong in interpreting what you said?
00:53:46 --> 00:53:53 So the conservatives, they've been on this mission for 65 plus years.
00:53:54 --> 00:54:02 It's just become, quote unquote, mainstream in the last 10 years or so.
00:54:03 --> 00:54:06 So they've been having these thoughtful conversations.
00:54:06 --> 00:54:11 Considerate conversations. And when I say thoughtful and considerate,
00:54:11 --> 00:54:21 I mean that they have been thinking through all of these aspects for the 55 years in quiet or not,
00:54:21 --> 00:54:27 if not in quiet, in the space where they are comfortable making these,
00:54:27 --> 00:54:29 having these conversations.
00:54:30 --> 00:54:35 Testing these legal theories, testing the waters when it comes to language.
00:54:35 --> 00:54:41 Testing the waters when it comes to policy, particularly on the state and local level.
00:54:41 --> 00:54:47 They've been doing their thing. It's just the rest, the non-conservatives have
00:54:47 --> 00:54:49 not been paying attention to them.
00:54:49 --> 00:54:57 And so it seems as though they are just coming out saying these things and creating
00:54:57 --> 00:54:59 these policies out of the blue. They have not.
00:54:59 --> 00:55:02 They have been very thoughtful about these policies.
00:55:03 --> 00:55:08 The rest of the world just has not been paying attention. But the ones who know,
00:55:09 --> 00:55:12 they know for the past 65 years.
00:55:12 --> 00:55:16 The ones who don't know are very shocked when
00:55:16 --> 00:55:21 they listen to some of the conservative talking points and seeing some of these
00:55:21 --> 00:55:26 policies that have overturned some of these civil rights and civil liberties
00:55:26 --> 00:55:34 that have been gained by the world's majority in the past 65 years.
00:55:35 --> 00:55:38 But this is not new.
00:55:38 --> 00:55:40 This is just out loud now.
00:55:41 --> 00:55:46 Yeah, I feel that. And I actually agree. I was listening more so about,
00:55:47 --> 00:55:50 I guess, individuals as opposed to the collective of the party.
00:55:50 --> 00:55:55 But I agree with the sense that They've been planning it because I would say
00:55:55 --> 00:56:00 it's been longer than that because, you know, we can just we can start at the
00:56:00 --> 00:56:02 New Deal and go from there.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:07 You know, I mean, as a black person, we can go all the way back to Reconstruction.
00:56:08 --> 00:56:12 It's just that maybe the parties have changed where people feel comfortable
00:56:12 --> 00:56:17 in their platform, but not the thought process and the strategy, as you put it.
00:56:19 --> 00:56:24 So if I understand if I go to Georgia State University and I wanted to get a
00:56:24 --> 00:56:26 degree in social entrepreneurship, I got to come through you.
00:56:27 --> 00:56:34 So what is social entrepreneurship? Social entrepreneurship is for folks who
00:56:34 --> 00:56:38 are interested in making money while doing the social good.
00:56:38 --> 00:56:46 So these people are in the community right now who are making strides,
00:56:46 --> 00:56:51 making social impacts, and they're making a check. They are a for-profit organization.
00:56:51 --> 00:56:58 So a lot of times what we tend to do is think of traditional business and then we think of nonprofits.
00:56:59 --> 00:57:02 And what we are is those folks in the middle.
00:57:02 --> 00:57:06 We're that sweet spot in the middle where we are making money and making an
00:57:06 --> 00:57:07 impact on the community.
00:57:08 --> 00:57:13 So, you know, it's one of those things where it's possible to do two things at the same time.
00:57:13 --> 00:57:19 And that's what we're encouraging folks to do is to do you in,
00:57:19 --> 00:57:24 you know, depending on where you are, what stage in life, the young folks,
00:57:24 --> 00:57:26 they understand this concept.
00:57:26 --> 00:57:30 And so they tend to want to gravitate to social entrepreneurship.
00:57:30 --> 00:57:35 And then you have folks who may have made their money and then they come back
00:57:35 --> 00:57:38 and they say, well, you know, I made a whole bunch of money.
00:57:38 --> 00:57:40 Do I feel good at nighttime when I want to go to sleep?
00:57:41 --> 00:57:45 And sometimes that answer is no. And so then they make a shift and that shift
00:57:45 --> 00:57:51 means that they want to use all of their skills and abilities that they learned
00:57:51 --> 00:57:58 in in the business world and corporate world and and then bring that to making a social impact.
00:57:58 --> 00:58:02 And that's what we're here to do is to encourage people.
00:58:03 --> 00:58:07 That there's another pathway to be able to do both that you don't have to choose
00:58:07 --> 00:58:10 anymore. We can live in a both end.
00:58:11 --> 00:58:15 So, and I, and I'm a strong believer in walking and chewing gum at the same
00:58:15 --> 00:58:20 time, but I had a political godfather that told me in politics, you have two choices.
00:58:21 --> 00:58:23 Either you can be rich or you can be honest. You can't be both.
00:58:24 --> 00:58:28 Does social entrepreneurship kind of fly in the face of that thought process?
00:58:28 --> 00:58:35 It does. And that, with all due respect to that individual, that's that 1980s
00:58:35 --> 00:58:38 greed is good kind of mentality, right?
00:58:38 --> 00:58:41 That's that old traditional thought. You can do both.
00:58:42 --> 00:58:47 The thing is, is that with social entrepreneurship, you know,
00:58:47 --> 00:58:52 folks want to, whether you are the business owner or the consumer,
00:58:52 --> 00:58:56 you want to be able to say, I did a good.
00:58:56 --> 00:59:02 Sometimes people want to do a good without the acknowledgement of it, just because.
00:59:02 --> 00:59:10 And there are some people that want to do a good without sometimes making an
00:59:10 --> 00:59:15 intentional like charity kind of situation with it,
00:59:15 --> 00:59:21 that they want to feel like part of their venture is teaching a man to fish
00:59:21 --> 00:59:23 rather than just giving them fish.
00:59:23 --> 00:59:31 And if we can have that type of conversation more often, then that is honesty in there.
00:59:31 --> 00:59:33 There is honesty. You can do both.
00:59:33 --> 00:59:40 And there appears to be a shift in mindset with particularly these young people
00:59:40 --> 00:59:47 these days who want both. And they tend to search out organizations and companies that do both.
00:59:48 --> 00:59:54 That's why you see so many corporate entities having these, you know,
00:59:54 --> 01:00:00 social impact departments or they're doing volunteer days and all of that because
01:00:00 --> 01:00:05 they understand that, you know, another this this new these last two generation
01:00:05 --> 01:00:08 of workers want to do more than just make money.
01:00:09 --> 01:00:14 They want to feel like they have done something to make their community a better place.
01:00:14 --> 01:00:23 Yeah, but I'm kind of afraid as it was already kind of seeing some movement
01:00:23 --> 01:00:29 with this new administration coming in that a lot of those companies are kind of backing off of that.
01:00:29 --> 01:00:36 I know they're backing off of DEI, but I'm concerned about even being concerned
01:00:36 --> 01:00:41 about social impact because they're they're afraid they're going to be on the wrong side.
01:00:42 --> 01:00:47 I don't know. And maybe that's just maybe that's just me being a little paranoid about that.
01:00:47 --> 01:00:52 But just watching the actions that they're taking now, I'm kind of concerned
01:00:52 --> 01:00:58 about even staying engaged in community for fear that they're going to get some
01:00:58 --> 01:01:00 kind of political reprisal for that.
01:01:01 --> 01:01:09 So even folks that are folks that voted for the incoming administration,
01:01:09 --> 01:01:14 many of them benefit from the social impact.
01:01:15 --> 01:01:24 Again, they don't like to say it out loud, though. And part of the perhaps shift is, do we say it?
01:01:24 --> 01:01:30 Do we say the part out loud or do we become quiet with that part and just do it?
01:01:30 --> 01:01:40 So, for example, there's a company who was very clear that they were pulling back on their DEI,
01:01:40 --> 01:01:48 yet came out with the commercials that I've seen during the holiday season, one with...
01:01:50 --> 01:01:57 Actors from a famous movie, Beloved in the Black Community, another with a rapper from the East Coast,
01:01:57 --> 01:02:02 beloved by the same generation of folks who love that beloved movie,
01:02:02 --> 01:02:08 and then another with a Black family, you know, getting all of their gifts from
01:02:08 --> 01:02:12 this same place, this same store.
01:02:12 --> 01:02:19 So you can say this is what you're doing, but then your actions are very different.
01:02:19 --> 01:02:27 So perhaps the shift is the quiet part is going to go back to being quiet.
01:02:28 --> 01:02:30 We're not going to use those words anymore.
01:02:30 --> 01:02:35 Yet the actions may still be that way.
01:02:35 --> 01:02:42 Because what these companies understand, and even the incoming administration
01:02:42 --> 01:02:50 understands that the GDP of the United States is so consumer driven.
01:02:51 --> 01:02:59 And if folks align their economics with their politics, some of these companies
01:02:59 --> 01:03:03 understand that they will lose customers.
01:03:03 --> 01:03:08 And if they lose customers, then regardless of their politics,
01:03:08 --> 01:03:10 they're not going to have the funds.
01:03:10 --> 01:03:14 So perhaps what we need to do is stop talking.
01:03:14 --> 01:03:20 And that was very clear to me again over the holiday season,
01:03:20 --> 01:03:25 looking at some of these ads, some of these commercials by these companies who
01:03:25 --> 01:03:29 very publicly gave money to the incoming administration.
01:03:30 --> 01:03:40 Yeah. So how can social entrepreneurship impact one of your personal concerns, which are food deserts?
01:03:41 --> 01:03:47 Sure. So when we take a look at a social venture, right, and my students were
01:03:47 --> 01:03:51 talking about this in the class this last semester.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:57 So what you can do as a social venture, let's say, take food.
01:03:58 --> 01:04:05 There are many different ways that one could take an idea about food and having
01:04:05 --> 01:04:09 food security and then making money and impacting that.
01:04:10 --> 01:04:15 Also, to be clear, social entrepreneurship is about looking at root causes and
01:04:15 --> 01:04:18 not just top of line issues.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:24 So when we consider, for example, food deserts, one could have a market,
01:04:24 --> 01:04:29 just a pop up market or to get to look at the code,
01:04:30 --> 01:04:35 the ordinances for your municipality to see what you can do to have like a neighborhood store.
01:04:35 --> 01:04:41 You can have your neighborhood store, particularly in these spaces that do not have grocery stores.
01:04:41 --> 01:04:44 They have convenience stores, convenience stores, gas stations.
01:04:44 --> 01:04:48 These are not, they make it worse.
01:04:48 --> 01:04:52 It's a food swamp is what it is, where you look at the West End and you have
01:04:52 --> 01:04:57 these convenience stores, gas stations, and fast food restaurants.
01:04:58 --> 01:05:05 Those are food swamps. They may provide some type of food, yet it is unhealthy
01:05:05 --> 01:05:10 food that creates long-term effects, social determinants of health,
01:05:10 --> 01:05:13 high blood pressure, preventable diseases,
01:05:13 --> 01:05:15 diabetes, and so forth in those communities.
01:05:16 --> 01:05:21 So you can have a social entrepreneur can get a local space,
01:05:21 --> 01:05:27 have a grocery store or a food market. They can partner with...
01:05:29 --> 01:05:32 Urban gardeners to purchase food from them.
01:05:33 --> 01:05:36 And so you have a direct line between those gardens.
01:05:37 --> 01:05:40 It could be community gardens selling their foods to those grocery stores.
01:05:40 --> 01:05:44 Those grocery stores or those neighborhood markets could then sell the food
01:05:44 --> 01:05:46 to the people in that community.
01:05:46 --> 01:05:55 And so with that, you have a supply chain that goes with people locally in the community.
01:05:55 --> 01:06:01 So you're impacting those urban gardens to where that they can get money,
01:06:01 --> 01:06:06 they can continue to replenish, they could probably hire people to work that garden.
01:06:06 --> 01:06:09 So they're creating an impact in the community.
01:06:09 --> 01:06:15 Then you have that supply going to that neighborhood market where folks are
01:06:15 --> 01:06:20 then buying from that market, that store is making money, which means that they're
01:06:20 --> 01:06:24 still able to hire, and then they could either franchise or market out to other spaces.
01:06:25 --> 01:06:30 And so what do you get? You get a community garden that has a customer that
01:06:30 --> 01:06:35 can thrive, that could build, that could expand.
01:06:35 --> 01:06:38 You have the market where people can go and shop.
01:06:38 --> 01:06:44 So you have fresh food going into that community to increase determinants of health.
01:06:44 --> 01:06:51 And then you also have employment that could take place because if the market
01:06:51 --> 01:06:54 is growing and they're getting more customers, they need more employees.
01:06:54 --> 01:07:01 So it becomes a cyclical effect where you have folks working all together and
01:07:01 --> 01:07:04 creating community while making money.
01:07:05 --> 01:07:15 Yeah, I really wish that people would take that seriously as far as being more
01:07:15 --> 01:07:23 engaged and understanding that you can have businesses that can make an impact for the greater good.
01:07:23 --> 01:07:33 And I'm hoping that you are seeing increases in enrollment for people to get into that.
01:07:33 --> 01:07:35 I think that's vitally important.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:41 It's something that, you know, capitalism has room for, but it just doesn't
01:07:41 --> 01:07:44 seem, you know, people always think, well, I just got to make money.
01:07:45 --> 01:07:49 Kind of like the scenario you talked about where somebody that's made money,
01:07:49 --> 01:07:54 but they getting a little long in the tooth like me, and they're like going,
01:07:54 --> 01:07:55 oh, I got to do something good.
01:07:56 --> 01:07:59 So let me see what I can do on that end.
01:08:00 --> 01:08:04 It's kind of like church almost. Some people, you know, when they're young,
01:08:04 --> 01:08:07 you know, and then when they get older, it's like, oh, I got to see the Lord.
01:08:07 --> 01:08:09 Let me start attending, right? Yeah.
01:08:11 --> 01:08:14 I'm just i'm just just riffing examples
01:08:14 --> 01:08:18 all right so now i'm gonna get into you teaching
01:08:18 --> 01:08:21 public policy at at
01:08:21 --> 01:08:24 georgia state and i found this fascinating it's like when i do
01:08:24 --> 01:08:27 research on guests i find interesting tidbits
01:08:27 --> 01:08:30 so there's there's
01:08:30 --> 01:08:34 this thing called rata teacher or something i didn't even know i'm
01:08:34 --> 01:08:37 glad that wasn't out my professor yeah right well yeah
01:08:37 --> 01:08:39 so in 2016 this is
01:08:39 --> 01:08:42 what people were saying about you oh my gosh get ready to
01:08:42 --> 01:08:53 read tough grader skip class you won't pass so many papers extra credit in 2024
01:08:53 --> 01:08:59 they're saying get ready to read amazing lectures tough grader,
01:09:00 --> 01:09:03 participation matters, gives good feedback.
01:09:04 --> 01:09:14 So how do you feel that you have evolved as a professor in public policy over these last few years?
01:09:15 --> 01:09:23 What do you feel that you have gained in reaching out to these young people?
01:09:23 --> 01:09:30 And I guess I can combine it with another question. What is your greatest satisfaction in teaching?
01:09:33 --> 01:09:38 So, to quote the current vice president, my values have not changed.
01:09:39 --> 01:09:47 What I have done, because I'm new to academia, I had a whole nother existence
01:09:47 --> 01:09:50 before I became a professor.
01:09:50 --> 01:09:58 And the thing that really struck me is, you know, I had big jobs before I became a professor.
01:09:59 --> 01:10:07 So I realized early on that all I was doing was doing something where somebody
01:10:07 --> 01:10:12 else made the rules. And then I was the one to implement those rules.
01:10:12 --> 01:10:16 And there were times I disagreed with the rules. And then I tried to figure
01:10:16 --> 01:10:21 out how I can still get the thing accomplished and tweak the rules as I win
01:10:21 --> 01:10:24 and just be like, oh, I didn't know I couldn't do that.
01:10:25 --> 01:10:31 And so I brought that with me to academia, to my classroom.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:40 And so part of the get ready to read is that most times when I started out,
01:10:40 --> 01:10:42 people told me what to do.
01:10:43 --> 01:10:50 And I initially accepted it. And then one time I got chastised by my supervisor
01:10:50 --> 01:10:55 and she said, who told you to do that? And I said, well, you know, so and so did.
01:10:56 --> 01:11:00 And then she said, did you read the policy? And I said, no, because,
01:11:00 --> 01:11:04 you know, she's been here 20 years. I just trusted what she said.
01:11:04 --> 01:11:09 And she said, well, you should go read the policy because what you did was a
01:11:09 --> 01:11:14 violation of the policy. And if it went past me, you would not be here anymore.
01:11:15 --> 01:11:22 And I said, duly noted. And I read the policy and I never listened to that other person again.
01:11:22 --> 01:11:29 But what it taught me was that most of us don't know what the rules are.
01:11:29 --> 01:11:34 We know what someone tells us what the rules are. And when we don't know what
01:11:34 --> 01:11:37 the rules are, we get in trouble.
01:11:37 --> 01:11:43 And my whole shtick is we should all know what the rules are.
01:11:43 --> 01:11:47 And if we know what the rules are, we know where the boundaries are,
01:11:47 --> 01:11:49 we can thrive in that space.
01:11:49 --> 01:11:52 We can't thrive if we don't know what the rules are, though.
01:11:52 --> 01:11:53 So let's learn these rules.
01:11:53 --> 01:12:01 Let's learn how it works so that we can do all of the things that we say we want to do in life.
01:12:02 --> 01:12:07 We say we want to impact our community, but we don't know what the rules are.
01:12:07 --> 01:12:14 We say we want to have better streets, better schools, grocery stores.
01:12:14 --> 01:12:17 We say we want to have these things, but we don't know what the rules are.
01:12:18 --> 01:12:24 Oftentimes, as I tell my students, we are hollering at the plumber because our
01:12:24 --> 01:12:29 electricity doesn't work, because we don't know who's responsible for what.
01:12:29 --> 01:12:31 So let's figure out what these rules are.
01:12:32 --> 01:12:37 Let's understand the rules. And then let's use these rules to our advantage.
01:12:37 --> 01:12:43 And if we don't like the rules, well, then you come to me and I teach you how
01:12:43 --> 01:12:46 to go about changing the rules.
01:12:47 --> 01:12:56 And so part of my joy of being an educator is to see the light bulb come on,
01:12:56 --> 01:13:01 to see the understanding come to be.
01:13:01 --> 01:13:09 And for my students to leave me and go off somewhere and then come back and
01:13:09 --> 01:13:15 check in with me to say, you know, when we did that one thing in class, I was so mad at you.
01:13:15 --> 01:13:20 But that works. I can't believe that works. See, it works.
01:13:20 --> 01:13:24 That is the greatest joy is I
01:13:24 --> 01:13:32 push my students and I push them hard because some of them perhaps have not
01:13:32 --> 01:13:42 been given the demand of expectations that they have been thrown away for whatever reason.
01:13:43 --> 01:13:50 And that's not what we do here. What we do with me is we push.
01:13:50 --> 01:13:58 I tell them, I push you. You will cry. You may even call me names, not to my face, though.
01:13:58 --> 01:14:04 But at the end of the day, you're going to be proud of all that you've accomplished.
01:14:05 --> 01:14:11 And I'm just happy to be a footnote in the book that is their life.
01:14:12 --> 01:14:17 Yeah, that's so cool. I think, you know, I love teachers. I think teaching is
01:14:17 --> 01:14:18 the noblest profession.
01:14:19 --> 01:14:24 And I had a privilege of doing it, you know, at Piney Woods.
01:14:24 --> 01:14:33 And that same euphoria, that same high about that light bulb coming on means a whole lot.
01:14:35 --> 01:14:41 But what you talked about as far as reading That resonates with me as well Because
01:14:41 --> 01:14:45 when I got in the legislature,
01:14:46 --> 01:14:52 Knowing the rules and reading the bills was like a superpower.
01:14:52 --> 01:14:55 Now, you would think that everybody that's elected would do that,
01:14:56 --> 01:14:59 but they do not. I can. I'm a witness. They do not.
01:14:59 --> 01:15:05 And so those of us who read the bills and understand the rules of Jeffersonian
01:15:05 --> 01:15:10 parliamentary procedure, you're kind of you're the one eyed man in the land of the blind.
01:15:10 --> 01:15:17 I'm just I'm just being truthful about that. So I greatly appreciate you stressing
01:15:17 --> 01:15:21 the fact that you need to understand where you are.
01:15:21 --> 01:15:27 And I even add the history in that, because if you understand how we got to
01:15:27 --> 01:15:34 this point, that what that determines why the rules make sense and why people do what they do.
01:15:35 --> 01:15:37 All right. So I'm getting carried away with this conversation.
01:15:37 --> 01:15:43 I still got a lot of stuff to talk to you about, but let's see if we can kind of swing through it.
01:15:43 --> 01:15:46 Because one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was Georgia itself.
01:15:49 --> 01:15:54 Georgia outperformed every swing state from my analysis. Now,
01:15:54 --> 01:15:56 if you have a different read, you let me know.
01:15:56 --> 01:16:00 But as far as I could tell, Georgia outperformed every swing state.
01:16:00 --> 01:16:03 Why do you think that was the case?
01:16:04 --> 01:16:07 Georgia is the canary in the coal mine when it comes to the form of Confederacy.
01:16:07 --> 01:16:15 The challenge is whether or not Georgia wants to fully embrace being the leader
01:16:15 --> 01:16:17 of the former Confederacy.
01:16:18 --> 01:16:25 And so that means that here in Georgia, regardless of one's thought process
01:16:25 --> 01:16:29 about Georgia, Georgia is much more,
01:16:30 --> 01:16:38 flexible in its movement out of the shadow of being a former Confederate state.
01:16:38 --> 01:16:45 That means that here you see a diversification of the industry.
01:16:45 --> 01:16:54 You see the different organizations, you see different companies move into Georgia
01:16:54 --> 01:16:59 that is unique to the Southeast.
01:17:00 --> 01:17:06 And I say this because when we consider tech, when we consider the arts,
01:17:06 --> 01:17:09 when we consider clean energy,
01:17:10 --> 01:17:16 when you see this innovation in technology, it is happening here.
01:17:16 --> 01:17:21 You have the, you know, relatively mild climate of Georgia.
01:17:21 --> 01:17:28 You have folks who are children of people or grandchildren of people from the
01:17:28 --> 01:17:32 Great Migration returning back to the South, and particularly Georgia.
01:17:33 --> 01:17:39 You see the TV film industry moving here in different parts of Georgia,
01:17:39 --> 01:17:41 not just in the metro Atlanta area.
01:17:41 --> 01:17:48 So you have all of these different uniquenesses that are moving into the state
01:17:48 --> 01:17:56 that creates a very interesting political and policy dynamic within the state.
01:17:56 --> 01:18:00 And when we're paying attention to that.
01:18:01 --> 01:18:08 Then you can fully appreciate and understand how Georgia is moving and how that
01:18:08 --> 01:18:15 can actually impact the rest of the Southeast, in particular, Alabama and Florida,
01:18:16 --> 01:18:22 South Carolina, North Carolina, because they are in its proximity to the state.
01:18:22 --> 01:18:26 Yeah, I think it's fascinating to,
01:18:27 --> 01:18:34 So it's more engagement in your mindset because, you know, Biden only won by
01:18:34 --> 01:18:37 11, well, 12 votes, basically.
01:18:38 --> 01:18:42 And Kamala got 70 more votes than Joe Biden did.
01:18:42 --> 01:18:49 And then Donald Trump got 200 more. And so what it sounds like to me is
01:18:49 --> 01:18:57 that you're saying because of all of the different opportunities and industries and all that stuff,
01:18:57 --> 01:19:03 you have a more engaged electorate as opposed to some other states where their
01:19:03 --> 01:19:07 their diversity is stagnant. You know what industry is there.
01:19:08 --> 01:19:14 That's why you go to that state and say like Nevada, that's gaming that Michigan. It's the auto industry.
01:19:14 --> 01:19:21 You know that. So it's like with with Georgia, you're getting an influx of different industries.
01:19:21 --> 01:19:24 Therefore, you're getting an influx of different thought and philosophies.
01:19:24 --> 01:19:27 And those people tend to be more engaged politically.
01:19:28 --> 01:19:34 Yes, absolutely. And some of them come from from states that have more engagement.
01:19:34 --> 01:19:42 So they bring that type of muscle memory inside of Georgia when they come here.
01:19:42 --> 01:19:48 So that muscle memory of, you know, I understand what the different levels of government do.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:52 And so I'm going to engage in those different levels of government.
01:19:52 --> 01:19:57 I understand the importance of my civic participation.
01:19:57 --> 01:20:01 The very first thing that is my responsibility as a citizen of this country
01:20:01 --> 01:20:06 is the ability to vote. And so I'm going to engage in that.
01:20:06 --> 01:20:09 Yeah, you see that. You see that taking place.
01:20:10 --> 01:20:15 Now, there were a couple other questions, and I'm trying to be respectful of your time.
01:20:16 --> 01:20:19 And I'm trying to figure out which one do I want to ask.
01:20:20 --> 01:20:27 So let's go with let's go with something that you had stated that Donald Trump
01:20:27 --> 01:20:34 catered to the aspirations of migrant communities, despite his rhetoric of mass deportation.
01:20:35 --> 01:20:44 How did he do that? And why did it work? So what the president did is that he
01:20:44 --> 01:20:50 understands that people, the American dream is aspirational.
01:20:51 --> 01:20:56 So when we understand that and appreciate that, you know,
01:20:56 --> 01:21:00 the whatever the American dream is, and most of it is consumerism,
01:21:01 --> 01:21:07 is to have enough money to do whatever it is that you want to do to not be poor
01:21:07 --> 01:21:10 because we do not like poor people, particularly in this country.
01:21:11 --> 01:21:15 So to not be poor, to have money, money equals power.
01:21:16 --> 01:21:20 Money means that I can do whatever it is I want to do. I can send my children
01:21:20 --> 01:21:21 wherever I want to send my children to.
01:21:22 --> 01:21:24 I can talk to anybody the way I can talk to them.
01:21:26 --> 01:21:32 So the aspiration of that is what the...
01:21:33 --> 01:21:38 Incoming administration, the former president, incoming president, has done.
01:21:38 --> 01:21:41 He did his first time around, his second time around, and even now.
01:21:42 --> 01:21:47 So if I say to you, you can do anything. Look at me.
01:21:48 --> 01:21:55 Look at where I've come from. These other people are trying to take this away from you.
01:21:55 --> 01:22:03 And even if you're talking within communities about the same type of person
01:22:03 --> 01:22:09 that could have been that person's grandfather, grandmother, it doesn't matter.
01:22:10 --> 01:22:16 The aspiration of someone is trying to take something away from you and let's
01:22:16 --> 01:22:22 blame it on a particular group of people, that matters because then it turns
01:22:22 --> 01:22:24 into, I'm not keeping me down.
01:22:25 --> 01:22:30 That other person, those other group of people are taking things away from me
01:22:30 --> 01:22:32 that is bringing me down.
01:22:32 --> 01:22:38 And the thought that everyone wants to be like me, right?
01:22:38 --> 01:22:42 It's like the 1990s, 1980s, be like Mike.
01:22:42 --> 01:22:48 Everyone wants to be like, and in order to be like, then you need someone like
01:22:48 --> 01:22:53 me to be in that spot to help you to get to that spot.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:58 And I'm going to make sure that the policies that I put into place are going
01:22:58 --> 01:23:02 to help you whenever you get to this spot that I'm in.
01:23:02 --> 01:23:07 I'm gonna have policies there where you're not gonna have to pay all of those taxes.
01:23:07 --> 01:23:11 I'll have policies there to make sure that your children get what they wanna do.
01:23:11 --> 01:23:17 I'll have policies there to where those regulations are not going to hold your business back.
01:23:17 --> 01:23:22 It's the aspiration of one day you'll get there too.
01:23:22 --> 01:23:29 And when you do get there, let's make sure that the road is easily paved for
01:23:29 --> 01:23:31 you so that you can be successful.
01:23:32 --> 01:23:36 Regardless if you get there. Yeah. And, and, you know, I can,
01:23:36 --> 01:23:38 I can understand why people,
01:23:38 --> 01:23:47 even in migrant communities would buy into it, even though he's threatening to kick some of you out.
01:23:47 --> 01:23:52 It's like, in my mind said, well, if I, if I can achieve, then I won't be one of the ones kicked out.
01:23:53 --> 01:23:56 That's, that's kind of that. Well, I won't say delusional hope,
01:23:56 --> 01:24:01 but it's that hope that I can overcome. I won't be one of the ones that get
01:24:01 --> 01:24:06 singled out. if I follow this guy as opposed to anybody else.
01:24:08 --> 01:24:15 And it makes it the way I understand after the election and had conversations,
01:24:15 --> 01:24:20 what I understood the thought process in some folks'
01:24:20 --> 01:24:29 minds is that it was they felt more self-determination from him,
01:24:29 --> 01:24:32 Regardless of his words,
01:24:33 --> 01:24:41 what certain people interpreted was self-determination, and that's important
01:24:41 --> 01:24:44 to them. That's what they got from it, though.
01:24:45 --> 01:24:54 So last question, because, again, time, but you gave this lecture about third parties.
01:24:55 --> 01:25:00 So we could, based on the questions I had drawn up, we could do a whole nother show on that.
01:25:00 --> 01:25:06 But I just want to ask, because there's a lot of talk now about a third party
01:25:06 --> 01:25:13 emerging, even more so to me than after Ross Perot did what he did in the 90s.
01:25:15 --> 01:25:20 Will we see a viable third party emerge in our lifetime?
01:25:20 --> 01:25:22 Now, your lifetime is going to be a little longer than mine.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:24 And so we'll keep that in perspective.
01:25:24 --> 01:25:26 But will we see that?
01:25:27 --> 01:25:29 No. Okay.
01:25:30 --> 01:25:32 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. No, go ahead.
01:25:33 --> 01:25:43 And I say no, and I say it quickly, and I say it from an understanding politics perspective.
01:25:43 --> 01:25:56 So to have a viable third party means that you are active, engaged, consistently, and,
01:25:57 --> 01:26:02 the state and more importantly, the local level in all 50 states.
01:26:03 --> 01:26:10 If there is a movement of folks who want a third party and they are only competing
01:26:10 --> 01:26:15 at the presidential level every four years and in only selective states,
01:26:16 --> 01:26:18 it's performative.
01:26:19 --> 01:26:22 You're not really serious about winning.
01:26:22 --> 01:26:31 You are in, I don't know what your intentions are, yet the impact is to underplay,
01:26:31 --> 01:26:41 to down my, to undermine and really to take away the seriousness of our politics and policy.
01:26:42 --> 01:26:43 It creates a game.
01:26:44 --> 01:26:50 This is not a game. You know, it frustrates me that we talk about politics and
01:26:50 --> 01:26:54 policy as if it is a game, like we're playing chess.
01:26:55 --> 01:27:02 We're not. We are playing. These are people's lives that seem to be thrown away
01:27:02 --> 01:27:08 because people want to, for whatever reason, participate.
01:27:08 --> 01:27:16 If a third party wants to be viable, there are municipal elections that happen
01:27:16 --> 01:27:18 in this country every single year.
01:27:19 --> 01:27:24 Are those candidates or people that support that party participating in those elections?
01:27:24 --> 01:27:32 We have statewide elections that take place. how many folks how many folks in
01:27:32 --> 01:27:38 Georgia who are third party get on the ballot for the.
01:27:39 --> 01:27:44 Georgia General Assembly seat? Or do they just get on the ballot for governor
01:27:44 --> 01:27:45 or lieutenant governor?
01:27:45 --> 01:27:48 Where are you when it comes to county,
01:27:49 --> 01:27:54 even though the county CEOs are nonpartisan, but where are you there?
01:27:54 --> 01:28:00 Where are you when it comes to a public commissioner spot, right?
01:28:00 --> 01:28:02 Public service commissioner spot, where are you?
01:28:02 --> 01:28:09 And if you're not there, then how can we take it with the level of seriousness
01:28:09 --> 01:28:15 that one says that they want when it comes to some of these federal seats.
01:28:15 --> 01:28:20 If you're not there for the local part, how are you going to jump in on the federal part?
01:28:21 --> 01:28:28 It doesn't make logical sense that someone should get a prestigious spot when
01:28:28 --> 01:28:30 they have not demonstrated.
01:28:30 --> 01:28:34 And one could argue that this happens all the time in every single election.
01:28:34 --> 01:28:40 Yet and still, when it comes to folks who are engaged in politics and policy,
01:28:40 --> 01:28:43 particularly who want to be third party candidates,
01:28:43 --> 01:28:51 are you clear on the level and breadth of issues that go beyond your initial concern?
01:28:52 --> 01:28:58 Right. Are we talking about how those policies impact us domestically and internationally?
01:28:58 --> 01:29:02 What about all of these other positions that come up?
01:29:03 --> 01:29:08 If a third party is successful at being president, there are cabinet positions that need to be filled.
01:29:09 --> 01:29:11 Are federal judges that need to
01:29:11 --> 01:29:16 be filled. There are all of these other positions that need to be filled.
01:29:16 --> 01:29:21 There's inside of the White House, legislative aides and legislative directors
01:29:21 --> 01:29:23 and people that need to work with Congress.
01:29:23 --> 01:29:31 There's a bunch of nuances there that a third party does not have the structure
01:29:31 --> 01:29:36 in order to be successful because you don't have people who are willing to go
01:29:36 --> 01:29:40 to bat for you because you have not put in the work.
01:29:40 --> 01:29:49 And my only challenge to folks that are in these independent parties is the
01:29:49 --> 01:29:53 work that is not there in order to be successful.
01:29:54 --> 01:30:00 We've seen throughout history, third parties come up, third parties have not been unsuccessful.
01:30:01 --> 01:30:06 One could argue it's because the two-party system is there to make sure that
01:30:06 --> 01:30:07 third parties aren't successful.
01:30:07 --> 01:30:12 Well, that's why there are PACs and super PACs, because they can make a dent in it as well.
01:30:12 --> 01:30:20 But if there is no seriousness, which takes time, it takes groundwork,
01:30:21 --> 01:30:23 it takes time to make it happen.
01:30:23 --> 01:30:29 Just like the current version of people that support this upcoming administration,
01:30:29 --> 01:30:36 they have been putting in the work for decades upon decades upon decades.
01:30:36 --> 01:30:42 Do we have anyone in this third party, in this independent party system that
01:30:42 --> 01:30:51 has put in the work constantly, constantly, constantly over these many decades? I have not seen it.
01:30:51 --> 01:30:53 I welcome any evidence of it.
01:30:53 --> 01:30:57 I welcome any literature about it. I haven't seen it.
01:30:57 --> 01:31:03 And if you only pop up every four years, how can we take you seriously?
01:31:03 --> 01:31:08 How can we take it seriously if you're not competing in Montana or Wyoming or
01:31:08 --> 01:31:13 South Dakota, yet there's only the competition in swing states?
01:31:15 --> 01:31:18 Need help understanding that. That does not demonstrate seriousness.
01:31:19 --> 01:31:23 Amen, amen, and amen. That's the gospel I've been preaching.
01:31:24 --> 01:31:29 And if people are serious about it, that's exactly what they have to do.
01:31:30 --> 01:31:35 Marcus Garvey's example, when he got deported back to Jamaica,
01:31:35 --> 01:31:38 he started a political party, but he didn't run for prime minister.
01:31:38 --> 01:31:44 He ran for the city council in the city he lived in and built a political party,
01:31:44 --> 01:31:46 I think is still viable today in Jamaica.
01:31:47 --> 01:31:51 I'm not an expert in Jamaican politics, but I know that's what he did.
01:31:51 --> 01:31:57 And I think that's kind of the thing. Everybody wants the big prize because
01:31:57 --> 01:31:59 Angela Raya asked a question to Jill Stein.
01:31:59 --> 01:32:04 If you get in, who in Congress is going to be your ally? Because there's no
01:32:04 --> 01:32:06 Green Party people in Congress.
01:32:07 --> 01:32:12 And she couldn't answer the question. and because there's no thought into that.
01:32:12 --> 01:32:14 So I greatly appreciate you saying that.
01:32:15 --> 01:32:19 And I'm going to make that the last question, but I want you to tell people
01:32:19 --> 01:32:24 how they can get in touch with you, how they can find stuff.
01:32:24 --> 01:32:25 You know what I'm saying?
01:32:25 --> 01:32:28 That, you know, work that you've done, all that kind of thing.
01:32:28 --> 01:32:36 Sure. So I'm only on LinkedIn and I post every now and then on there. I.
01:32:38 --> 01:32:42 At Georgia State and the Andrew Young School of Policy Studies and the Public
01:32:42 --> 01:32:44 Management and Policy Department.
01:32:45 --> 01:32:51 You're welcome to come over and see all the things that we have going on.
01:32:51 --> 01:32:57 If you do a search of me on your favorite search engine, you'll probably see
01:32:57 --> 01:33:01 quite a few speaking engagements that I've had.
01:33:01 --> 01:33:07 And as you said, on WABE quite often, and just in this space,
01:33:07 --> 01:33:15 I am working with a local coffee shop for 2025 to put on a once a month civic
01:33:15 --> 01:33:21 education event where we will first learn structure and function of government.
01:33:21 --> 01:33:26 And after we learn who's responsible for what, how it's supposed to work,
01:33:26 --> 01:33:31 then we can get to these top level issues that we are very passionate about.
01:33:31 --> 01:33:38 Yet we need to seriously understand how it works and who is responsible in order
01:33:38 --> 01:33:41 for us to get those things done that we're so passionate about.
01:33:42 --> 01:33:46 Well, Dr. Tammy Greer, I hope that a lot of people show up to drink coffee at
01:33:46 --> 01:33:50 42025 Coffee Shop and listen to you.
01:33:50 --> 01:33:53 It's been a blessing to have you to come on on this podcast.
01:33:53 --> 01:34:00 And one of the rules that I state to guests, either on air or off the air,
01:34:00 --> 01:34:03 is that you have an open invitation to come back.
01:34:03 --> 01:34:06 If there's some burning in your chest that you feel that you've got to talk
01:34:06 --> 01:34:09 about, just let me know and we'll make that happen.
01:34:10 --> 01:34:16 So thank you for coming on, and I greatly appreciate what you're doing in the
01:34:16 --> 01:34:21 community and especially in the classroom. Thank you.
01:34:22 --> 01:34:23 All right, guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:34:23 --> 01:34:34 Music.
01:34:35 --> 01:34:40 All right. And we are back. So I want to thank Jessica Weinstein and Dr.
01:34:41 --> 01:34:47 Tammy Greer for their insight and their contributions to what's been going on
01:34:47 --> 01:34:51 in the state of Georgia. And that's how this this episode is going to be titled.
01:34:52 --> 01:34:54 This is, you know, a Georgia perspective.
01:34:56 --> 01:35:04 And the interesting thing was, from the activist side, Georgia is different
01:35:04 --> 01:35:11 because people are on the ground doing the work to get people to participate in the election.
01:35:11 --> 01:35:17 And from the academic side, we heard that people are more naturally engaged
01:35:17 --> 01:35:23 because of what they're involved in at work, what they're involved in in their culture.
01:35:24 --> 01:35:29 And where they've migrated from, whether it's from another state or another
01:35:29 --> 01:35:36 country, the people that come here tend to be more civically engaged,
01:35:36 --> 01:35:38 which I think is very, very interesting.
01:35:38 --> 01:35:41 I think that's an incredible combination to have.
01:35:41 --> 01:35:46 And I wish that all 50 states had it, that you have people who are civically
01:35:46 --> 01:35:52 engaged and you have people willing to knock on doors and to make the phone
01:35:52 --> 01:35:58 calls and send the text messages and remind people that it's time to get engaged.
01:36:00 --> 01:36:03 Not just during election season, but all throughout the process,
01:36:03 --> 01:36:06 because the easiest part is the election.
01:36:07 --> 01:36:10 I say that as somebody that's been a candidate, somebody has been an activist.
01:36:12 --> 01:36:18 The election is the easy part. It's the term that that person is serving is
01:36:18 --> 01:36:21 the toughest to actually make policy decisions.
01:36:22 --> 01:36:27 And so we have to be engaged in order to make sure that those people are making
01:36:27 --> 01:36:30 the right decisions for our communities. Right.
01:36:30 --> 01:36:33 Especially those of us in African-American black community.
01:36:34 --> 01:36:42 Right. That we we have to maintain a level of engagement to make sure that our
01:36:42 --> 01:36:47 voices are always heard and that our opinions are always respected. Right.
01:36:49 --> 01:36:55 I really think that, you know, things could be really, really bad.
01:36:57 --> 01:37:02 But one of the things we cannot do is to cower in fear over that,
01:37:03 --> 01:37:08 to get caught up in despair and, you know, the war with me kind of stuff.
01:37:08 --> 01:37:14 We don't really have the luxury to do that because in my mind,
01:37:14 --> 01:37:19 I think about what my parents went through. What my grandparents went through.
01:37:19 --> 01:37:27 In my mind, I imagine what people in Mississippi and Georgia in the 1800s went
01:37:27 --> 01:37:32 through before the Civil War and after Reconstruction, right?
01:37:33 --> 01:37:38 I just think about how tough it really,
01:37:38 --> 01:37:46 really was and how we are so fortunate that we have laws and tools available
01:37:46 --> 01:37:55 to us and knowledge available to us that we don't have to struggle as hard as
01:37:55 --> 01:37:57 our forefathers and foremothers did.
01:37:58 --> 01:38:06 That we should have confidence and the courage to stand up even when it's not
01:38:06 --> 01:38:09 the most popular or cool thing to do, right?
01:38:10 --> 01:38:15 It may not get you a whole lot of clicks on social media. It may not get you
01:38:15 --> 01:38:20 a whole lot of viewers on your YouTube or on your podcast.
01:38:20 --> 01:38:30 But if it's the right thing to do and if it's to uplift our community then it needs to be done and I,
01:38:31 --> 01:38:36 I just want people in 2025 to hunker down and commit to doing that.
01:38:37 --> 01:38:40 I know some people will say, well, you know, we're going to let these folks
01:38:40 --> 01:38:43 handle it because they disappointed us and blah, blah.
01:38:43 --> 01:38:46 Look, our battle has always been our battle.
01:38:47 --> 01:38:51 If people want to join us in the fight, we welcome them to it.
01:38:51 --> 01:38:53 But it's still going to be our battle at the end of the day.
01:38:53 --> 01:39:02 And we have to be built or encased in the armor that we need to fight it.
01:39:04 --> 01:39:08 And we have those tools. Doesn't matter how old you are.
01:39:08 --> 01:39:12 Doesn't matter how poor you are. You have those tools.
01:39:13 --> 01:39:17 You have a voice. And you can make a difference.
01:39:18 --> 01:39:23 And so I hope that the conversations you heard today remind you of that.
01:39:23 --> 01:39:30 And I hope that you carry that through 2025 because we need that.
01:39:31 --> 01:39:37 If, you know, I'm a sports guy. I played baseball. I love all sports.
01:39:38 --> 01:39:45 And it's always mindset of coaches that I've played for was that if you can
01:39:45 --> 01:39:48 win at the beginning, you can win at the end.
01:39:49 --> 01:39:54 Right. If you've got a dominant pitcher, the best time to get that dominant
01:39:54 --> 01:39:56 pitcher is the first inning.
01:39:57 --> 01:40:05 If you're facing a team that is supposed to be formidable, you've got to get
01:40:05 --> 01:40:06 them in the first quarter.
01:40:06 --> 01:40:12 If you send a message in the first quarter and you can keep that energy up all
01:40:12 --> 01:40:13 through the game, you'll win.
01:40:14 --> 01:40:16 I wholeheartedly believe in that.
01:40:17 --> 01:40:23 And that's what we have to look at 2025 is the first quarter that we have to
01:40:23 --> 01:40:28 put up as strong a resistance as possible to anything that's crazy and detrimental
01:40:28 --> 01:40:32 to us and secure as many victories as we can.
01:40:32 --> 01:40:39 So that by the end, as stated in the intro, we'll get to that morning of joy.
01:40:39 --> 01:40:41 We'll get to that finish line.
01:40:41 --> 01:40:44 We'll win that race. We'll win that game.
01:40:45 --> 01:40:53 I just really believe that. And, you know, so I'm hoping that we all find the
01:40:53 --> 01:40:58 encouragement, find the strength to go forward and to make that a reality.
01:40:58 --> 01:41:03 As always, I greatly appreciate y'all. So thank y'all for listening.
01:41:03 --> 01:41:07 Happy New Year to everybody. And thank you.
01:41:07 --> 01:41:57 Music.
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