Episode 30: Shades of Reality: The Colorism Conversation

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Talk To Me Michele.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Talk To Me Michele, I am your host, Michele. What's poppin', people?

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I definitely got a great episode for you guys.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Before I even get to the topic, I would like to make a brief announcement.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, it's very exciting news.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So the podcast, Talk To Me Michele, is officially part of the NBG Podcast Network.

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited because this gives the platform more exposure.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And this platform that I'm on now is home to some of the most influential podcasts that shape black culture

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and the conversations I enjoy having on my podcast.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to have a different variety. It's like a channel for podcasts.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of these thought-provoking discussions, they range from politics, relationships,

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00]: to uplifting voices in business, entertainment, and community.

[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_00]: The NBG Podcast Network is all about elevating black excellence.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And you guys know how I am. I am always trying to represent black excellence.

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: I got my ratchet. Yes, I have my ratchet moments.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm still about that black excellence.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So being part of the network means so much more for Talk To Me Michele Podcast.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_00]: This is an opportunity to reach even more listeners and share even greater stories

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_00]: and bring the voices that matter to the forefront so you guys can expect bigger guests,

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_00]: even more powerful conversations, and of course the same energy that brought y'all here in the first place.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm so excited about this new chapter.

[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_00]: I cannot wait for you guys to come along with me on this journey.

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00]: So be sure to check out the other incredible shows on the NBG platform too.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00]: They're all about the black excellence, uprising in the culture.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you'll find some gems there.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: So stay tuned and keep listening because the conversations are going to just keep going y'all.

[00:02:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So I am so happy and may I clap for myself.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm gonna do right now. Just give myself a little clap.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get to today's topic, which is going to be very interesting boys and girls

[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: because today we're going to talk about colorism and its impact on the black community.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I said it and I'm going to talk about it.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we should talk about it because in our own community, you know, it has a major effect on us.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And individually it shapes your identity, your self-esteem, and the opportunities that you may or may not have.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's go ahead and delve deep into this.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So what is colorism?

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, people think it's the same as racism and it's definitely not.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_00]: They do both have discrimination, but colorism is a form of prejudice or discrimination where people are treated differently based on their skin tone.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And often we see lighter skin individuals are favored over darker skin individuals.

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_00]: You guys know it's true.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen too many movies that display this all the time.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: We see too many legal cases that display this behavior all the time.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, unlike racism, you know, racism only focuses on discrimination between different races and colorism occurs within the same racial or ethnic group.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00]: So it affects us economically, personal opportunities, and it stems from historical systems of colonization.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So in many communities, especially our own community, colorism still impacts our beauty standards, the self-esteem, how people are perceived and treated.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I understand we're talking about the black community, but don't just think it stays in the black community because colorism affects many communities across the globe.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_00]: In countries like India, Pakistan and the Philippines, lighter skin tones are often favored and they give them a higher social status, wealth and beauty, leading to the widespread of skin lightening products.

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, in Latin America and the Caribbean cultures, there are often also preferences for lighter skin tones where those with mixed European and indigenous or African ancestry were given more privileges.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And even East Asia has the light skin preference.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_00]: It's long been associated with nobility and beauty.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And across all these regions, colorism creates divisions and impacts on opportunities and education, employment and relationships, showing that this bias is a global issue within our deep cultural roots.

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me share a personal story with you guys that I experienced where I'm like, OK, colorism still exists in this modern day.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm on a live on Instagram and it was a good conversation.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I forgot all who was in there, but I do know that there was one particular lady in there and she made a remark to me.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_00]: She's like, well, you just doing it because you light skin.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I did because I don't remember being offensive in any way or shifting the conversation, but it just came out of nowhere.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, she was trying to come across playful, but I knew she had some resentment behind that statement.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But research has shown that lighter skin individuals often receive more favorable treatment than dark skin individuals.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So I can only imagine maybe something on her journey in life that she experienced that type of behavior.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And you've got to consider this, that lighter skin individuals often receive more favorable treatment than darker skin individuals.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Even within our own community, our own ethnic group, a 2006 study revealed that lighter skin black men receive sentences that were average 12% shorter than their darker skin counterparts for the same crimes.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: All right. This bias also exists in the workplace.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, lighter skin individuals get more opportunities.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They're higher quicker. They get more money than their darker skin counterparts.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So these examples alone show how deeply ingrained colorism is and it's affecting all the aspects in our life.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_00]: So you might be thinking, how does colorism impact me?

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Because, you know, everybody wants to make sure personally and socially that you don't get ingrained by the biases around the skin tone effect.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and this is daily. This is professionally.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00]: This is in our relationships and additional opportunities that, you know, come to our table.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So on a personal level, it can influence a self-esteem issue.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: It's shaping how we see ourselves and how we feel perceived by others.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you will have some people that have lighter skin tone behave a certain way because they feel that they have the privilege for that behavior.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Where a dark skinned person may act out just on the society labels.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And colorism does create division within our own communities.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00]: It often reinforces the harmful stereotypes.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And colorism affects us socially.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It creates these divisions within communities, reinforcing harmful stereotypes.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Look at it as if you're watching the news.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching the news and a majority of the crime you see reported on are by African Americans.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone that absorbs that information on a majority of their day.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever they go outside to the grocery store, walking their dog, and they interact with an African American,

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_00]: and that's the only interaction they've had, they're going to perceive that it's going to be a crime story.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're going to be featured in it.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Colorism has historical context.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you've got to go back to when slavery was taking place right here in the U.S.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And the whole dynamic of the house slave versus the field slave started right there.

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Because the slave owners, they imposed this different type of treatment based on skin tone.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And slave Africans with lighter skin, often the result of a mixed parentage from a forced relationship

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_00]: between an enslaved black woman and their white masters were given, you know, this privileged treatment.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't the best treatment, but they had a few more highlights than the slaves that worked out in the fields.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And this led to the creation of a house slave versus the whole field slave dynamic.

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Where light skin slaves, they worked in the house, they worked around the family, they had a, you know, preferred table scraps.

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And darker skin slaves were forced to do, I mean, labor in the fields, picking cotton all day.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: So the distinction alone created a division between lighter and dark skinned black people.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Although this took place back in slavery, it still has lingering effects of this system.

[00:09:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And they've shaped colorism in black communities and beyond, creating these biases where lighter skin is often seen as more favorable and the darker skinned people are not.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me remind you that colorism isn't just an African-American issue.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It impacts communities globally.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in Africa alone, they have some effects of this because in many regions over there, there is a higher preference for lighter skin.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a widespread of skin lightening products.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And in the Caribbean and Latin America, the legacy of slavery created these racial stereotypes where again, the lighter skinned person were historically granted higher status.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And these preferences, they still exist today.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_00]: In Asia, particularly in countries like India, the Philippines and Japan, the light skin tone has always been associated with higher social class wealth and desirability.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But let's see how the media plays a role in this because that's another factor.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: The media reinforces these type of social norms and it affects these opportunities again.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And they set our beauty standards worldwide.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I know we're in the modern time.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So even in this modern time, there is a growing push for diversity and inclusion.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Many mainstream media outlets still display a bias toward lighter skin individuals.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: It's evident because when you look at beauty advertisements, you see there are more lighter skin models featured versus dark skin models.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And even if they do try to attempt, and I say attempt, to promote any type of diversity with a few darker skin models, they're going to be very underrepresented, even in our own entertainment.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to speak on a personal note.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is just my personal note.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Whenever I watch a Tyler Perry movie, which I can barely get through nowadays, I'm not going to lie.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: But I always notice when it comes to his cast and there's always a light skin brother that comes in and saves the day versus the dark skin brother that's causing havoc.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We see that lighter skin black actors are often, you know, receive more prominent roles than their darker skin counterparts.

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And it's evident.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Even like I said, with Tyler Perry's productions, it's evident.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_00]: These characters are frequently written to reflect a lighter skin tone impacting the types of stories that are told during the film and characters are developed.

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But also in music, it also reflects this bias.

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: With genres like hip hop, R&B, you see more and more light skin artists.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason, that gives people the impression that light skin artists are more marketable and they could be more influential.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Because like I said, I like some of Drake's stuff, but they pretty much sound the same.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've seen him get so much, you know, promotion.

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_00]: He's on everything.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm surprised he ain't got his own cereal.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even with this Kendrick Lamar, you know, beef that they got, he's still a prominent item in marketing.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And today colorism is still taking an impact on us, especially, and I'm going to say this ladies, black women.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Black women are doing, I'm glad that we going back to our roots, but then I'm seeing a little too much.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Because sisters, we are naturally beautiful.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: But for some reason, it's always got to be some type of European look, whether it be nose features, eyelashes that are just beyond Bambi lashes, straight hair, you know, and the hair be all the way down in your ankles.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's these European standards that affect the black community.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And again, most of these items are promoted by lighter skin models.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: They're often seen as more beautiful or desirable.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So European beauty standards are still dominating the perceptions of beauty in our own community.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And I say it's because, you know, lighter skin black individuals frequently receive more attention, validation in the beauty and fashion industry.

[00:13:19] [SPEAKER_00]: As a result, lighter skin black individuals are frequently received more attention, more validation in the beauty and fashion industry.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So just with this consistency, it's creating an environment of darker skin individuals who may struggle with self-esteem and acceptance.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_00]: And they are feeling pressure to conform to this, you know, idea of beauty.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't reflect their true identity, though.

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And colorism can have economical and a social impact because there are studies that show our legal system.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: It shows these biases, educational opportunities, health care opportunities.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I mentioned earlier how lighter skin black individuals are less likely to receive a longer sentence 12% while their darker skin counterparts have for the similar offense get more time.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_00]: There's also a study that was published in the Journal of Black Psychology that found that lighter skin black students that were more likely to be perceived as smarter and receive positive teacher evaluations and darker skin students faced lower expectations and fewer academic opportunities.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_00]: When it comes to health care, there was a research published in the American Journal of Public Health indicted that lighter skin individuals are often treated more favorably in the health care settings.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00]: So they receive better care, more attention from medical professionals.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And this leads to significant differences in health outcomes.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Think about it.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Have we ever had any loved ones that may have been a certain skin tone?

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_00]: And you could always tell by the attention they were getting, the medication they were recommended.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Was it because of their skin tone?

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And the flip side is that colorism can severely impact the self-esteem and mental health of darker skin black individuals because the consistent exposure to this, you know, standard that people have in favoring lighter skin tone, they can lead to feelings of inaccuracy, shame, constant exposure to these social norms and the media standards that favor light skin.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And the darker skin individuals, this can result in lower self-worth, depression and anxiety as darker skin individuals may feel overlooked, devalued or judged unfairly based on their skin tone.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_00]: So how much harder are we making it for each other when we are looking at skin tone versus character?

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, it's deeply rooted.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, I know our community is not the only community affected by it.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But this is what I'm seeing on a regular basis, whether it be in person, online, is just too much.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Colorism has negative impacts in general, in social circles, dating preferences, creating divisions within the black community, especially in dating, because I know I've heard this in my own family.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to say the family members who said it, but I heard it several times.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't bring home somebody that's too dark skinned.

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just telling you.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, you know, now you're intriguing me to go find the blackest, bluest brother out here because I want to.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a person about character, not skin tone.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: But can you imagine if you brought home somebody that was light skinned and they got such good treatment?

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Mom and dad loved them.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Your siblings loved them.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_00]: And then you dated somebody else later that was darker skin tone.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were just like, ugh, why?

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I have experienced that as well.

[00:16:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And I got to say that colorism does create major risks within our own community as lighter skinned individuals may be perceived more privileged and have more opportunities.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is leading to resentment because I've seen people with that.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00]: The lady I mentioned earlier in the live conversation, that's what I was vibing from her.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Resentment, possible competition.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I don't want to be judged that way because that was an experience that we've been trained to have or to think.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the more open conversations that we have within the black community about colorism, they're very crucial, especially to the next generation coming up.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's going to help raise awareness about its existence, the impacts it has on our community, and to recognize the biases and challenge these stereotypes.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: And we've got to provide some healing because you've got to acknowledge, first of all, that colorism does exist.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It does foster some impacts that's going to need a lot of healing.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So providing a platform for people to share their experiences, express their feelings, and support one another in overcoming the emotional toll of colorism.

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And let's bring unity to the table.

[00:17:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Engaging in conversations like this can promote unity by encouraging solidarity among all these different shades we've got in our community.

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got too many different shades to be tripping with each other.

[00:18:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And can we please have more dialogue for more empowerment?

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Because people need more empowerment.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_00]: We need to embrace our unique identities and challenge all these norms they made us think is norms.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_00]: These beauty standards they think are standard.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: No.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Fostering a more inclusive definition of who we are as people, our own beauty.

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's celebrate this diversity we've got.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got so many different things from different cultures we need to be celebrating.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think if the black community takes this topic seriously, we can dismantle these biases.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: We can create a more, you know, supportive environment for everybody.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to tell you something I know a lot of us find hard to do.

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But you've got to really embrace yourself.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to find ways to combat the negative effects of colorism through your self-acceptance, your self-love.

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we give everybody out here all the time, day, energy, everything we've got except ourselves.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_00]: So I think when we take more of a self-love approach, we can start dealing with these situations a little bit better.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: And we need to start encouraging movements like, you know, hashtag melon magic.

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, other ways to celebrate all of our shades.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad you guys joined me for this conversation.

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you guys seriously look at how this is taking effect just in general.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: We got to do better because this was embedded.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_00]: We shouldn't be against each other.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: In any community, we should not be against each other regardless of what skin tone we come here with.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: In summary, colorism refers to the discrimination based on the skin tone within the same racial or ethnic group often favoring lighter skin over darker skin.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It's significantly impacting the black community by affecting self-esteem, our mental health, social dynamics, and our dating preferences.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: There's historical roots from colorism.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: They stem from slavery and colonization.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_00]: The media is not helping with this either.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_00]: So we got to look to other ways of accepting and loving our own beauty standards.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Overcoming colorism is not an easy task.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_00]: It's essential though.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: We got to foster open conversations.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Addressing colorism and overcoming it is definitely a difficult task.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00]: But we got to do this.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: It's essential to foster open conversations within our community,

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_00]: raising awareness about the effects,

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and promoting acceptance of all skin tones.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Challenging all these harmful stereotypes.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's acknowledge that, you know, there are issues that we got to discuss as a community.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We got to start working toward healing, unity, and empowerment.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_00]: This can create a more inclusive environment for everybody.

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay?

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So I hope everybody found this episode very helpful.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you guys probably were like,

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00]: hmm, yeah, I have seen some colorism.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So let's switch it up, y'all.

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for tuning in.

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate y'all.

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[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So until next episode, peace.