This Africa Idea Featuring Witney Schneidman

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[00:02:01] Hello. Welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming. So today, I have a guest, Whitney Snydman. And Mr. Snydman is coming on to talk about his book, This Africa Idea, which is really, really fascinating.

[00:02:25] It's a memoir, and it's a memoir, and it's not a long book, but it's very detailed about Mr. Snydman's experience in building African and U.S. relations. And I hope that you enjoy the conversation that comes forward and the optimism that he brings. Yeah, so we're going to talk about that.

[00:02:53] And then afterwards, I'll have a few comments about this convention that the Republicans had in Dallas this past week and a couple other topics. So let's get right into it, since I only have Mr. Snydman on today. And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace Gee

[00:03:29] Thanks, Erik. Americans and political leaders commemorated the 25th anniversary of the September 11th attacks to honor nearly 3,000 people killed in the terrorist acts, as well as those who died from post-9-11 toxic dust exposure. The Republican Party held an annual midterm convention in Dallas, relying on aggressive attacks against Democrats to energize their base.

[00:03:55] President Trump proposed a $5,000 dividend for every U.S. adult if Republicans win the midterm elections, though the legality and feasibility of the $1 trillion initiative remain unclear. The U.S. Supreme Court blocked Missouri from using a newly redrawn Republican-favoring congressional map, forcing the state to revert to its 2022 district lines for the November midterm elections.

[00:04:22] A federal appeals court refused to lift an injunction against the Trump administration's proposed Postal Service rule, restricting mail-in voting. The Trump administration proposed redistricting the U.S. Census count to citizens and permanent residents, while removing the longstanding questions about race and ethnicity. At least five people died after an Amazon Prime air cargo plane overran a runway at Miami International Airport and struck ground vehicles.

[00:04:52] Former Republican Senator John Sununu will face Democratic Representative Chris Pappas in a high-stakes New Hampshire Senate battle that could decide control of the chamber. The federal government alleged that UC Berkeley School of Law's admission practices discriminate against white and Asian candidates while intentionally favoring black applicants. Jamaica petitioned King Charles III to resolve key legal questions regarding colonial-era slavery

[00:05:20] under British and international law as the nation pursues $10 billion in reparations. And Lonnie Bunch, the Smithsonian's first black secretary and founding director of the National Museum of African American History and Culture, will step down by the end of the year. I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.

[00:05:50] All right. Thank you, Grace, for that Moment of News. And now it is time for my guest, Whitney Snydman. Whitney Snydman is a non-resident senior fellow at the Brookings Institute, a board member of the Corporate Council on Africa, the founder of his own Africa-focused consulting practice, an advisory board member of the Smithsonian's National Museum of African Art,

[00:06:17] and the author of Engaging Africa, Washington and the Fall of Portugal's Colonial Empire. During his extensive career, he served as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs in the Clinton administration, where he worked on the peace process in Angola, South Africa's transition to democracy, and the passage and implementation of the African Growth and Opportunity Act. He lives in Alexandria, Virginia. His new book, This Africa Idea,

[00:06:48] a memoir of discovery, diplomacy, and opportunity, is what we're going to be discussing during this interview. So, ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinguished honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Whitney Snydman. All right.

[00:07:18] Whitney Snydman. How are you doing, sir? Are you doing good? I'm doing great, Erik. How are you doing? I'm doing lovely. I am really, really honored to have you to come on. Well, I'm deeply appreciative for the invitation. Yes, sir. You have written this book called This Africa Idea. So, naturally, as an African American myself, and you being a Caucasian or white gentleman,

[00:07:47] however you want to identify yourself, I was intrigued. And so, I said, well, let me get this gentleman on and see what we're talking about. And it is an incredible book. It is short for a memoir, but it is very, very detailed. And so, I was very honored to get a copy of that and read it. And so, a lot of the questions that I'm going to ask you is going to be based off of... Some are going to be based off the book,

[00:08:17] but it's going to be a lot on the experience that you detailed in your work. So, if you don't mind, let's go ahead and get this thing started. I usually kind of break the ice with a couple of things. And so, the first thing, first icebreaker I do is a quote that I want you to respond to. Okay. And the quote is, from the time I first visited Africa between high school and college,

[00:08:45] I knew what I wanted to do in my career. I wanted to be a bridge of understanding between the United States and Africa. And maybe one day, I could help shape U.S. policy toward Africa. That's accurate. It's an accurate reading. So, let's dive into that. So, I took a gap year after high school and made my way to Israel, Kenya, and Uganda.

[00:09:14] And I happened to be in Uganda when Idi Amin took over the country. And I was only five months out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, where I grew up. And hearing him come on the radio, experiencing this coup d'etat, shook me. It just shook me. I'd never imagined anything like that. Borders opened a week later, continued my travels. And when I started university the next year, I started reading about all these places

[00:09:43] that I'd been to. And it was at that time that I realized, this is early 1970s, that Africa was ending one era of colonialism, beginning a new era where nations were being born every year. And in Southern Africa, nationalist organizations were fighting against white minority governments for freedom. And I thought this was a really profound realization.

[00:10:13] The fact that Africa, this huge continent, was undergoing this tectonic shift. And I realized that nobody in my world where I'd grown up knew anything about it. And I thought it was really significant. So, that's pretty much when I set my compass on wanting to be a bridge of understanding and wanting to contribute to stronger relations between the U.S. and Africa.

[00:10:41] Because I sensed Africa was very important and what was happening there was very important. That the African people were very important. And, you know, we just, growing up, there was no mention of Africa in my life. And so I just thought this would be a worthy undertaking. And that's what I set my compass on. Yeah. All right. So now the next icebreaker is what I call 20 questions. Shoot. So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.

[00:11:12] 12. All right. What advice do you have for recognizing fake news? Be as, be as broad, broad-ranging as you can be in the news that you read. Don't read one source. Read many sources and then decide for yourself what you think is real

[00:11:42] and what you think is false. Okay. You were quoted as saying in 2022, one of the touchstones for me was to write the fullness and the truths of my experience. And that led me to my family story. Was that the driving force for you to write this Africa idea? The driving force for me to write this Africa idea was the fact that I realized

[00:12:11] that I had sort of spent five decades working in Africa and I wanted to write about the many people that had helped me understand the continent, the many people that helped me impact positively on the continent. I wanted to write about the people that stood in my way and how I navigated around them. I wanted to write about the significant experiences that I had been part of in hopes not only just to share that with other people,

[00:12:40] but to encourage and inspire other people to find a way in their own life to engage with Africa and African people. Okay. So you explained in the quote explanation how you first became interested in Africa, but what made you fall in love with Africa? Well, on my first trip out there as an 18-year-old, you take,

[00:13:10] take Idi Amin, out of the equation, take being in the coup out of the equation. I just found the ease of interaction. People, you know, the ease, people say, Jumbo, Bwana, Abadi Ghani, you know, in Swahili. I just found the ease of interaction so comforting and different than in the U.S. I was taken by the history. I was taken by the beauty of the land. I was taken by the culture and the architecture I saw, particularly on the Kenya coast,

[00:13:40] the mix of Bantu and Arabic, which is the Swahili culture. So, I left there just saying, what was that about? That was really cool. I want more of it. And I've been building on that ever since. Yeah. I definitely understand that feeling. When you find something that really, really catches your attention, it's like, yeah, I want more of that.

[00:14:08] and I'll be honest, I'm a little jealous of you in the sense that I have never been to Africa at all. And I've had friends that have gone and they talked about their experience and all that. But for somebody like you that has been there for a long time and worked with the people in the continent, I'm really, really impressed by that. So, having said that, what do Americans have wrong about Africa?

[00:14:39] Americans generally see Africa as a continent of conflict, a continent of crisis. I have come to know Africa as a continent of opportunity and innovation. I'll give you one example. Twelve of the fastest growing economies in the world are in sub-Saharan Africa. Admittedly, a lower base, but that rapid economic growth says something.

[00:15:09] It says that opportunity is being created. Economies are expanding. Americans don't realize that in 2025, one of four people on planet Earth will be on the African continent. Americans don't realize that the median age in Africa is 19 years old. And when you take the population, you take the demographics, you take the economics, it, in my view, demands a closer look.

[00:15:39] It demands a closer engagement because Africa is good, I think, already is an important part of our lives, but it's going to become increasingly more important as well. Yeah. Do you think our perception of Africa is shaped by the limited coverage Africa gets in our news ecosystem? Not only the limited coverage, but the type of coverage. I mean, you know, as the saying goes, if it bleeds, it leads, you know. We only sort

[00:16:09] of hear about Ebola and DRC, you know, buried in the back pages of the business section is news about Aliko Dangote's first IPO ever on the African continent in Nigeria and the largest oil refinery in the world that he has built. And that's where I play. That's where I wrestle. I focus on what's happening that's positive

[00:16:38] that we need to know about. We see all the bad news. I don't have to worry about that. But what I work on is where's the opportunity? Where's the innovation? What are companies doing that are interesting? How is it impacting people? How is it moving people forward in such a way that we need to know about it? Yeah. And, you know, it's like I get a lot of my news from Reuters because Reuters has a, like a dedicated

[00:17:07] Africa section and the BBC as well. And when you read just that African section of Reuters, it's almost like a microcosm of the planet as far as like, you know, how they, you know, there'll be one story about a country dealing with exchange rates and another one dealing with the IMF. And then, of course, you have the conflicts and then, you know, and then you have, I think it

[00:17:36] was Tanzania where the president was trying to violate this guy's free speech rights because he drew a cartoon about him or something. I mean, but, you know, it's like, but it's all of those things are no different than stuff that we're dealing with in the United States as a single country. And so, or other countries you might follow like Canada or Mexico or some countries in Europe, the African continent is dealing with the same exact issues

[00:18:06] and a lot of people, I think, don't, don't make that equation because they are not, on a daily basis, they're not exposed to that news. Like you said, not unless there's a major conflict going on, very rarely do we hear anything about what's going on in Africa. And so, I think, I think it would be educational for Americans if there was a news program dedicated strictly to Africa, right, on all the

[00:18:35] major networks because I think you would learn a lot about, I think you would learn a lot about what to do and what not to do, I think, in certain situations. your memoir provides a first-hand account of U.S.-Africa engagement over multiple years and numerous administrations, including visiting nearly 40 countries on the continent. How have our relations with Africa evolved during

[00:19:05] your time of engagement? Well, I was very involved in the passage of something called the African Growth and Opportunity Act that President Clinton signed in to law in 2000. And what that did was to reduce to zero the tariffs on some 6,000 products coming from Africa. And that's why you can go to shops today, Lands End, others,

[00:19:34] and you'll find jeans that say made in Kenya. You'll find shirts that say made in Mauritius. You'll find other apparel products from the African But what that did was that introduced a new way of engaging with the continent because we were saying we're going to use trade as a stimulus for economic development, not aid. And trade is about mutual benefit, mutual gain.

[00:20:03] And so since 2000, that effort to promote our commercial relationship with Africa has really picked up momentum. And even in this administration where I have differences with some of their Africa policy and other policies, you know, they're doubling down on the commercial diplomacy. This is focused on critical minerals. But the more that we can get our companies working on the African continent, that's our benefit,

[00:20:33] benefit. So I guess that's the major innovation difference that I've seen over the last 20, 25 years. So, and that was going to be one of my questions, was, you know, defining what AGOA is. But you brought up something in your answer that created a question in my mind. So there is, there is kind of a thought

[00:21:02] that America, American corporations coming over to Africa and the same with China and Russia, you know, is a new, some people view it as a new form of colonization, right? Why, why do you, do you agree with that or do you push back on that and why? I push back on that and this is why. So my experience with the U.S.

[00:21:32] private sector was shaped in South Africa in the early 1990s. At that time, it was almost to the end of the apartheid era. Nelson Mandela wasn't quite out of jail yet, but there was something still in place called the Sullivan Principles. And the Sullivan Principles were forged by Reverend Leon Sullivan, a Baptist preacher from Philadelphia. Huge guy, huge guy. And he was the first

[00:22:02] African-American to go on the board of a Fortune 50 company, and that was General Motors. And he went on the board in 1975. And at his first board meeting, he said that we as American companies cannot continue to do business in South Africa as we have been doing it because during that time, apartheid and racial oppression was just the law of the land. So out of that, out of

[00:22:32] Reverend Sullivan's impetus and effort, the Sullivan Principles were created and that compelled U.S. companies to hire Black workers, train Black workers, invest in Black workers, promote Black workers, invest in communities. And around 1990, 91, I got this job to monitor U.S. companies in South Africa to see if they were actually doing that because there's this big divestment movement going on in the U.S. I would write my reports, they'd be

[00:23:02] sent to universities. And literally one of my first meetings, the managing director of this American firm said that the South African police had been on his shop floor the week before and they wanted to arrest him because he'd integrated his workplace, he'd integrated his canteen, he'd integrated his changing area. the guy told me that he said to the South African police, you can arrest me but I'm following instructions from New York.

[00:23:32] And the police said, well, you're breaking our law. He said, do what you do, I'm doing what I have to do. And that made a big impact on me. And the more companies, the more shop floors I walked across, when I had that job for about 18 months, I visited about 20 or 30 companies, I saw that they really took the Sullivan Principles seriously, most of them. And the ones that did were really making a difference in people's lives. So I said, if U.S. companies can do this here in South Africa, why can't they do it all over Africa?

[00:24:02] And I'm going to become an advocate for U.S. investment in Africa. So I've been working off that dynamic for the last 30 years. And what I try to do in my work is help companies align their commercial objectives with countries' economic development and growth objectives. So for instance, if I'm working with a health company, my first message to them is that we need to read the 2030 strategy of the

[00:24:31] country where you want to invest. And we're going to start with a chapter on health care so that when we go meet the minister, we're speaking their language. We can understand what their priorities are and how we're going to help them achieve their priorities. So that, in my experience, is the basis for a sustainable investment. And that's the core of my work. If I don't see an alignment between commercial objectives and economic growth and development objectives, I don't get

[00:25:00] involved with a project because I don't think it's going to work. So that's why I push back on the notion that by definition, U.S. companies are predators or imperialists. Yes, some are. Make no mistake, but I think by and large most U.S. companies want to do the right thing and in the right way. Well, I'm glad that you lifted up Reverend Sullivan's name because I had mentioned his name in a

[00:25:30] previous podcast and the guest admitted that he had never heard of him. And I was explaining to him. He went to the same college my mom went to, West Virginia State. There's actually a building named after him there. And I couldn't remember the name of the organization that he had established. I wanted to say it was Opportunities. Oh, I see. Opportunities International. Yeah, yeah. So I knew I was on the right track. I just couldn't remember the exact name. But I'm really glad that you brought him up because he was really

[00:26:00] a major voice and especially people of my age group to get more engaged with what was going on in Africa other than the quote-unquote struggle, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You devoted a whole chapter of your book to Ron Brown. Yes. Who was he and why was he significant to U.S. Africa relations? Ron Brown was the first African-American Secretary

[00:26:30] of Commerce and he worked for President Clinton. And Ron Brown was a force of nature. He was the first. He was in so many ways University Middlebury. He was the first African-American to join a white fraternity. He was the first African-American at this very prestigious law firm here in Washington. But he was always connected to his identity and his roots. He was a bridge builder. And

[00:26:58] very dynamic, very smart. And I really wanted, you know, I was on this journey to be a policy maker. And when Ron Brown was named Secretary of Commerce by President Clinton, he first said, you know, we need more U.S. investment in Africa. and he started making all these trips to the continent. And he was the first Secretary of Commerce to

[00:27:28] really lift up the African market as a destination for U.S. companies. He had this idea about 10 big emerging markets and South Africa was one of them that he identified. And this was right at the time of transition. So he was creating a lot of excitement, a lot of energy. And I really wanted to get to know him and his people because that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to bring U.S. companies to Africa. And here was our Secretary of

[00:27:58] Commerce doing just that. So that's why I devoted that chapter to him because I thought he was really quite significant in the role that he played in U.S.-African relations. Yeah, you know, he came in my radar when he became the chair of the DNC. And, you know, his life was tragically cut short. And, you know, but he was, you know, for a lot of young African-American

[00:28:27] men who were aspiring either to be in politics or even in business, he was a role model. He was, I mean, the way he would dress, the way that he would articulate and carry himself, you know, and his steadfast commitment to improve Africans in the whole diaspora, not just in the United States, but on the continent as well. He was, he was, he was a hero to a

[00:28:57] lot of us and I was really, really thrilled to see this chapter just said Ron Brown. I was like, oh, wow, he gets it. And so I really appreciate that you lifting him up as well. Now, I do want you to tell us, tell the listeners, because I want people to get the book, but I do want you to tell listeners, how did you impress Susan Rice? How did I impress Susan Rice? I mean, why did she pick me to be her deputy assistant?

[00:29:27] Yes, sir. Secretary? Well, you probably have to ask her, but, you know, like I said, I was, from the time I was 20 went to Africa after university so I could really get a grounding in Africa. Then I came back to the U.S. and got a PhD, and then got hired at the State Department to be the South African analyst, left there, and joined the think tank here in Washington and started writing all these blogs

[00:29:57] about U.S.- African relations. And it was in that context one that I created, you know, tried to create some visibility for myself. Who is this guy Whitney Schneidman? What does he do? What's he going to contribute? And so the blogs helped me do that. But then, you know, just sort of working it. And then I was at this meeting and I met Susan, I introduced her, and we sort of hit it off. She had just finished a PhD at Oxford

[00:30:26] on Zimbabwe's transition independence. I finished my PhD on U.S. policy toward Portugal, Angola, Mozambique, and we just sort of hit it off. And I said I really want to join the things work out. I write about it in the book, as you've seen. And I was just so deeply touched when she one day invited me in and offered me the position as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs.

[00:30:55] And it wasn't just me. It's really important to underscore. It wasn't just me, but it was our team. It was Susan as Assistant Secretary Leader. It was Ambassador Johnny Carson. It was Ambassador Vicki Hullson. It was President Clinton, people in the White House, people in the Commerce Department, people in the Defense Department, people in the Treasury Department, everybody pulling together to try to forge this new relationship with the continent. it. And I think we were successful in terms of getting a go

[00:31:25] out and the fact that the African Growth and Opportunity Act has been the law, it's still the law of the land today. Here we are 26 years later. And it's still the cornerstone of the U.S.-African commercial relationship. Yeah, and I think either, it may have been in an interview you did, you pointed out now that U.S. aid has been basically pulled, that the AGOA is even more important as far as maintaining our relationship with the continent.

[00:31:58] And then I've had the privilege of meeting Ms. Rice, and the first thing that stunned me was how small she is. She's a very diminutive woman. But once you talk to her and you read her, it's like you understand that her physical size is not the embodiment of her. She is a strong and very capable person. And when I grew up on this podcast, I hope to get her on one day. As we

[00:32:28] have just commemorated the 25th anniversary of 9-11, talk about your experience in dealing with Osama bin Laden. So, again, it's part of the book, August 7th, 1988, and I'm driving to work. It was my daughter's eighth birthday, so I was going to leave the office early. And as I was driving to the State Department, I heard on the radio that our embassies had been

[00:32:57] attacked in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. And that was just, what? What? So I got to the State Department 10 minutes later, and I was quickly told that I had to go to the seventh floor to the crisis control center, and I go in there, and it's this sea of computer links and telephones and people feverishly working to understand what had just happened.

[00:33:26] And I ended up spending the next 18 hours right in that seat, missed my daughter's birthday party, and all these reports were coming, Osama bin Laden, Al Qaeda, and I'm going, who is Osama bin Laden? And this was really the first that we had heard of, at least I had heard of him. Maybe everybody else in the room knew about him. I certainly hadn't heard about him, and I'm trying to pay attention to these things. But that attack on

[00:33:56] our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania sort of signaled that we were involved in a war already that we had no idea that we were involved in. He had already declared war on us. And the fact that he attacked both embassies pretty much simultaneously, that was also his trademark, which he did with the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, tried to attack the Capitol. That didn't work. So that was my first introduction

[00:34:25] to Osama bin Laden. And it was clear that his hate, his terror was very much part of our world now. And it was something that we were going to have to confront. Yeah. So my experience with that, just to show how life interconnects, even, you know, if we had never met, I, you know, never would have been able to make that connection, but I was teaching

[00:34:55] at Piney Woods Country Life School. And one of the children that was attending was just happening, was just happened to have been visiting his dad, who was a diplomat in the Nairobi office. And so he died during that attack. So that hit us like, wow. So, you know, you were dealing with it as a government

[00:35:25] official, and I was dealing with it as a dorm parent, as a counselor, trying to console, you know, his classmates, right? So that just, you know, and that's just a reminder, even as we think about 9-11, and it's hard to believe it's been 25 years, you know, just the impact that those acts have on

[00:35:54] people and their psyche, and, and, and, which is why we have to get to a point where we can minimize that or eradicate it altogether. I think it's going to be hard as human beings, but it's just, again, when people talk about those kind of things, they need to understand the gravity of that, how that impacts everybody, not just the victims themselves, but, or the country that was being targeted,

[00:36:24] but just every nuance around there. So, it was, it was, it was interesting to read that connection as well. That's quite powerful. That's quite powerful. Yeah. Why should Black Americans care about our relationship with Africa? And the reason why I'm asking this question is because there has been a debate during this, the issue about reparations.

[00:36:54] And, you know, there, there's a faction of, of, of African Americans, of Black Americans, that say that if you did not come directly from Africa, then you, you shouldn't get reparations, right? If you're, if you were a descendant of slavery, right, then you shouldn't get reparations. If you are an African immigrant that just shows up in the United States, you know, and, you know,

[00:37:24] within the last, whatever, anytime after slavery, then you shouldn't qualify for that. And that's led to some heated discussions online about African immigrants not liking African Americans and vice versa and all that and has even led to some people saying, well, I don't care what happens in the continent of Africa. I'm an African American. I'm a black American and I don't want to, I don't even want to deal with that.

[00:37:54] So what would you say to somebody that might have that mindset that it's like, I don't have a connection with the African continent. Why should I care? I guess I approach it a little differently from the reparations lens, although I think that's extremely important conversation to have. But I approach it more from the point of view of the African diaspora. And I think the African diaspora is an incredible

[00:38:23] force and has the ability to connect with those on the continent in a way that's mutually beneficial. And I think it's a natural connection, whether you're talking about Italian Americans or Irish Americans, those in the African diaspora are natural

[00:38:53] partners for investment, for learning, for trade, for innovation, for health, for so many things. And to recognize that connectivity in some way I think is really powerful and it uplifts everybody. So that's why under the Biden administration, I was really pleased to see that they established an office of African diaspora affairs to advise the president. Because for the first

[00:39:22] time it gave recognition to the power of the African diaspora. The African Union, which is sort of like the UN of Africa, they have six regions. Five are the five regions of Africa, east, west, north, central, south. The sixth region is the diaspora. So, you know, it's there. It's a reality. And I think it's really important to recognize it as a reality. And for

[00:39:52] those in the diaspora to embrace it, obviously I'm not in the diaspora, but I, you know, understand its power and its potential. So that's how I see it. Okay. All right. So I've got a couple of personal questions, one based off the book and one not based off the book to try to start closing out the interview. Would you say that from 2001

[00:40:21] to 2008 were some of your most challenging years in your professional and personal life? 2001 to 2008. So that's when I got out of government and number one, had to figure out what I was going to do next because it took me 25 years to get to my position in government. So yes, that was a challenge and I started my own business then. And it was white knuckle. You know, it's just after 9-11 happened. And here I'm setting up a U.S.-Africa investment

[00:40:51] advisory group, sole practitioner, you know. So, and plus I had a young family. So yes, that was an incredibly stressful time, high pressure. And then also my marriage was breaking up. I'd been married about, I'd been married 15 years and just realized it wasn't working and it was become very dispirited and I just thought that the pain of

[00:41:20] staying in it would have been greater than the pain of getting out of it. Maybe I could find somebody else to enjoy the kind of relationship that we all deserve or many want, you know. But I could be an example to my kids of what a healthy, loving partnership is all about. So yes, I exited that. So yes, it was a very challenging time. Yeah. All right. So my other personal

[00:41:50] question is, what is the Lemon Scholarship Endowment? Thank you for asking that. So in the course of writing this book, I discovered that I had a forefather, Samuel Francis Bright, who had a 274 acre farm that in the early 1800s that he sold to William and Mary. So I

[00:42:19] sort of said, oh, this doesn't sound good to me. So I emailed the librarian at the university there, any chance that Samuel Francis Bright might have enslaved people? She came right back and said, absolutely. And so I said, okay, I gotta understand this. So I went down to William and Mary, and they said they had all the papers. I went down there and spent like two hours, three hours going through

[00:42:49] it. Sure enough, there were all of his records of the people that he had enslaved. And I left there thinking, okay, I gotta address this in some way, form, shape. shape. And, you know, William and Mary is an amazing institution because they have really done an incredible job of reconciling with their past and the enslaved people who built that university, who made it what it

[00:43:19] was today. So I reached out and began this conversation. I went to my family, I said, do you realize we had a forefather who was partied to America's original sin? And I said, we have to do something. You set up a scholarship. And, you know, the university was very receptive to that. And so we set up the Lemon Scholarship because that's the name of the project that William and Mary, the Lemon

[00:43:49] Project, named after an enslaved African who was last named Lemon. So, yeah, I got my family to fund it. I funded it and, you know, sort of dealt with it that way. Is it sufficient? Probably not. Is it some way that I could deal with it and make a contribution? I hope so. But, you know, it's designed for those who, you know, are progeny or those who have been enslaved to have a scholarship

[00:44:19] opportunity to attend William and Mary. Yeah, well, I think that's an incredible effort. And I think, as we had mentioned about reparations, that falls in line in that. I think those of us who, you know, can, even though, you know, in your case, you weren't the slave

[00:44:48] holder in your family, but as somebody who is a descendant and somebody that sees that this is an opportunity to, you know, make amends. I mean, it's, you know, it's not total absolution. I get it. But I think, but I think just the thought that you put into it, I wish more Americans thought like you. I'll put it that way. So, my challenge to all my guests to finish this

[00:45:18] sentence, I have hope because. I have hope because I have seen the power of challenging yourself. I've seen the power of human connectivity. I've seen the power of having a vision and going to pursue that vision becoming reality. And in my case, it's in the U.S. African

[00:45:47] sphere of forging strong relations with Africa. I'll just finish on this. When I was a young kid, college student, I believed that I could be a positive force in the U.S.-African relationship. And don't get me wrong, I'd seen where U.S. was a negative force. We backed the apartheid government. We backed Portuguese colonialism. Our companies had oil spills. People died. But I still believe that we could do something right

[00:46:17] that would be widely beneficial. And I think that belief was so critical to anything I've been able to achieve. And I believe we have achieved a lot of positive things and that we can do a lot more. Yeah. Well, and I'm glad that you stuck to your guns and worked your life toward that belief. Right? And I'm really, really glad that you wrote this book because I learned something. Well, several things,

[00:46:47] but it was one particular thing that I learned was Boko Haram. I had heard of the group, but they don't really get into who they are or what did they say these folks are killing these people. Right? Yeah. But to understand that the phrase Boko Haram means Western education is forbidden told me a lot. It is like, okay, I really understand these people. Now, do I think they're crazy? Of course I do. But I'm just saying

[00:47:17] that was educational for me. So I'm glad that you wrote this book, this Africa idea. And now is the time where I ask the guests to tell folks how they can get the book and how can people reach out to you? So you can get the book on amazon.com or you can go to my publisher bloomsbury.com and you can also go to my website thisafricaidea.com and leave me a message and there's a link to buy the book there.

[00:47:47] So it's just published last week. So we're just at the beginning of this process and I couldn't be more excited about it and grateful to you Eric for having me on and having taken the time to have read it and have this conversation. Right. And then one of the things I want to stress that my fascination with the book is of course about your work with Africa and all that but it is a memoir. So it does tell your stories and your experiences

[00:48:16] in life and all that stuff so that's why I have to throw in that question about that period between 2001 and 2008 so people understand this is it's not quite a biography per se but it is your personal experiences and I'm really really glad that you because I always tell people I don't have the courage to write a memoir or autobiography and so I just admire people that do and can do it well and

[00:48:46] to do it concisely the way that you did. I think that's powerful and I wish you much success on that. Now the other thing I want to mention is that now that you've been on the show you have an open invitation to come back anytime. So if you decide to write another book if you want to come on and say hey man we need to talk about what's going on in Africa or whatever is on your mind just let me know and we'll see if we can make that happen. And more than likely we will.

[00:49:16] But Whitney Snyder Snyder I greatly appreciate you writing the book and you coming on the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you Eric. Thank you for having me. Enjoyed it a lot. Yes sir. All right guys and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.

[00:49:31] We are back. So I want to thank Whitney Snyder for coming on.

[00:50:02] And I hope that you enjoyed the interview. Very very insightful. Very positive. It is just really really cool to have somebody like him. Take an interest in Africa and to be honest I wish that more people that look like me were as interested if not more interested in Africa. But I think that's changing.

[00:50:30] I think we're getting to a point now where we understand the connection and the diaspora is as strong as ever. And I just hope that it continues to grow. But please please go get Whitney Snyder's book This Africa Idea. And it should give you some hope and you know some history as to at

[00:51:00] least over the last quarter century and a little bit beyond how our relationship with the kind of Africa and when I say our I'm talking about the United States of America how that has improved and where there is room to improve. All right. So let me get into it. The Republicans did something

[00:51:29] I think it's been done before but it's been a long long time ago. They had a midterm convention. So they decided that the way things were going for them is that they needed to have an event and it was only two days long in Dallas, Texas where they needed

[00:51:59] to kind of encourage the base, get the base fired up for these midterm elections and hopefully put a more positive spin on the Republican candidates running for Congress this year. And they failed. They failed miserably at this. They did

[00:52:28] nothing to move the needle. Now, considering the source, which is me, I am very, very biased. That is no secret for those of you who are listening. If you're a first-time listener, I have been a Democratic nominee for office, federal office. I have been a Democratic elected official. I have been active in the Democratic Party. So, I'm going to talk

[00:52:57] my shit about the Republicans in a normal circumstance. But in these crazy times that we are living in, even more so, having said that, if I was an independent person, based on what's been going on over the last two years, there's nothing that the Republicans did this past week that would make me change my mind about them. Either I'm down with all the craziness that they're putting out

[00:53:27] there, or I'm repulsed by all the craziness that's out there, and they did nothing to kind of draw me into the middle and say, oh, didn't consider that, which is what conventions are supposed to do. Conventions are supposed to give you a boost next, because you have the nation's attention for those nights. Normally, a normal convention during the presidential year is four nights. They only did two. And then the two nights

[00:53:57] they picked this year was terrible because the National Football League decided that they were going to start their season on a Wednesday. and the reason why they did it on a Wednesday was because normally they'll start it on a Thursday, but this year they started on Wednesday because the first ever game in Australia was played on Thursday. So, for a unique moment in American history, we

[00:54:26] had Wednesday night football and Thursday night football. And the Republicans decided to do their convention at the same time as those football games were going on. So, I don't even know if a whole lot of people saw it. None of the main networks covered it live. The only people they really highlighted was President

[00:54:56] Trump. And, you know, he gave his typical speech on Thursday night, from what I understand. And then Friday, I mean, Wednesday night, and then Thursday night, he said, but you heard that speech last night, so, you know, we're just going to play some music. Although he did encourage all the people to take an oath of loyalty to

[00:55:25] voting for Republicans and cheating, if necessary. The two highlights were the President offered a $5,000 bribe to every American. He basically said if the Republicans win, he would give each American adult $5,000. Now, the estimated cost of that

[00:55:55] bribe would be $1 trillion out of the U.S. Treasury. Most people that have analyzed this have said this is highly illegal for him to do it that way or couch it that way. It's like when you wanted to give money because of the pandemic, that's one thing. If you wanted to give money because of the recession, that's another thing. But to

[00:56:25] blatantly say if the Republicans maintain the majorities in the House and the Senate, that he is going to get them, because Congress would have to approve it, get them to approve writing a check to every adult American for $5,000. Now, you know, just talking to some of my friends and co-workers and all that, we know there's going to be some people like, oh man, he's going to

[00:56:55] give us $5,000 blah, blah, this dollar, and oh man, that would be great. You know, we know there's going to be some folks that drink the Kool-Aid. But here's the deal. First of all, he's not going to do it, right? Because we still waiting on the tariff rebate and some other stuff that he promised that we never got. And then when we did get something when he was president, he wanted

[00:57:24] to make sure that his name was on every check, which is why some people were like, well, he gave us money during the COVID. It was the U.S. government that gave you the money, not him personally. And he personally cannot give every American a $5,000 check. He can't do it. Which would have been even worse legally, by the way. But to say he's going to

[00:57:54] use the U.S. government to bribe us to vote for the Republicans, that's basically what he's doing. He's trying to get us to vote Republican. that's not going to And, you know, if they're trying to hire people and, you know, determine who gets a ballot via the mail, you know they're going to try to figure out a way where people that they don't think voted for

[00:58:23] them is going to get a check, even if they did give out the money. And they're not going to give out the money to folks in Chicago, folks in Atlanta, folks in New York, Los Angeles, they're not going to give them the money. But, more unlikely, if the miracle happens and the Republicans maintain control of both the House and the Senate, you weren't going to see a dime out of it anyway because,

[00:58:53] you know, the Congress is going to turn around and say, we're not going to just spend a trillion dollars, not just to give people some money. They're not going to do that. Like I said, if there was a crisis, we get it. But just because you won an election, you're going to give out money? That's not how that works. You know, he sounds more and more like

[00:59:22] a mob boss each and every day. Right? So that was one of the things that was, quote-unquote, a highlight, which this convention really was supposed to be the kickoff for J.D. Vance's presidential campaign, campaign, and that didn't happen. But the most notable speech at

[00:59:54] that convention was given by a Democrat. The senator from Pennsylvania, John Fetterman, introduced via video, introduced the Republican senator from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And needless to say, that has not gone over well. But, you know,

[01:00:24] I just think there are people that have a mindset that once they get in, their intention may even be good in the sense that they want to not always tilt the party line, that they want to support the best interests of Americans, want to come across as being fair and even-handed in their decision-making. And that would be acceptable in

[01:00:54] normal times. Mr. Fetterman has not read the room. This is not a normal time. Either you're in or you're out. This is not the political hokey pokey. You don't stick your foot in and stick it back out. No. You are either in, you are totally immersed, or you are out, you are totally dry. That's it. And for him not to be politically astute to read the

[01:01:23] room at this point means that he should not be engaged until we can get some sense of normalcy, which may be harder and harder by the day. But until we can get to that point, we got to get the crazy folks out. Now, maybe just maybe he sees himself as all these Democrats are

[01:01:53] going to get in and they're going to be, you know, they're anticipating there's going to be blood in the water and they're going to be going after each and everybody affiliated with the president. And so he kind of wants to be that voice of reason and say, look, first of all, we can't get everybody out because he's still going to be president for two years and then second, you know, it's like we should be focused in on issues. And my

[01:02:24] thought, as well as some other people, you know, I listen to on different podcasts, I believe that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. I think we can push an agenda, which he'll veto everything that we push, you know, but the Democrats can push an agenda and two years from now get a Democrat elected president and still

[01:02:55] go after the folks that have done this country harm, even if it's not the president directly himself. But some of the other folks like Pam Bundy, like Todd Blanche, like Kristi Noem, even though Kristi Noem is gone, still may be some repercussions for her. But you get what I'm saying. They're going to go after the people in the administration that have done the most harm. Blake Rollins, she'll probably be okay.

[01:03:26] Robert F. Kennedy, probably not. He might be the first to go, to be honest. And then Pete Hexf is second. Blake Rollins, where, you know, we don't agree with her concept about Snap and other things. As far as we know, she's not corrupt. She's just crazy. Right?

[01:03:55] Nonetheless, you know, maybe Fetterman is trying to position himself to be that voice of reason, but again, just like Senator Sinema in Arizona and Manchin in West Virginia, you know, and to be fair, those three names I mentioned, all of them come from states that tend to lean conservative, but if they like you, they vote for you.

[01:04:26] That's why Manchin got in, that's why Sinema got in, and Fetterman. But of those three, Fetterman, you can make the argument about Sinema, but she was constantly moderating throughout her political life. Fetterman just flipped. You know, and I'm sure there's some people like Adam Kingsinger and Liz Cheney

[01:04:57] and Jeff Duncan who would say to Mr. Fetterman, go on and cross that line because that's what they did. I mean, Jeff Duncan in Georgia was the lieutenant governor as a Republican and he ran for governor this last time as a Democrat. I think his timing was bad because Keisha Lance Bottoms was running and I don't know if he could have even stayed Republican and won with Rick Jackson spending

[01:05:27] money like a drunken sailor. All right? But nonetheless, he made the full commitment. Adam Kinzinger made the full commitment to lead the Republican Party. Liz Cheney made the full commitment to lead the Republican Party. So if John Fetterman wants to leave the Democratic Party, he can leave. Now what I think is going to happen is if the Democrats only manage to get a majority of 51 in the Senate, then that's when Fetterman is going to switch because

[01:05:57] he's going to be offered all sorts of money, political protection, whatever. And then J.D. Vance still gets to break the ties. But that wouldn't be too bad for these two years because Donald Trump would be still in office and most of the progressive stuff that they would try to push will get vetoed anyway.

[01:06:27] In 2028, Mr. Fetterman's going to be on the ballot. And I don't see him avoiding a primary. I don't see, I don't care if it's Democratic Socialists or the old DLC Democrats or whoever, they're going to run somebody against Fetterman and get him out of there. Now, again, another hunch I think is that Fetterman is going to leave. I think he's not going to run.

[01:06:58] I would be surprised if he ran considering what he's doing. And, you know, I think he's going to resign. I think he's going to write this incredible book about overcoming a stroke and being a U.S. senator and with his thoughts on American politics, go on the circuit, make him a whole lot of money, and him and his family right off in the sunset. That's what I think he's going to do. I can't conceive of

[01:07:27] him going up against the political machine of Philadelphia and the other Democrats across the state willing to engage in a primary battle with them, especially when they've got evidence of you giving a video, doing a video supporting the Republican senator. Who they're trying to get rid of. Right? Nonetheless,

[01:08:00] yeah, so that whole convention was just a waste of time and money. You made people running for office pay to hold a convention. You made them give $25,000. And there are some candidates who are like, yeah, I could spend that $25,000 on my local race

[01:08:29] and, you know, for what? To give a speech that nobody's going to watch on national television? No, thank you. So, you know, but of course, you know, the president's like, oh, it's sold out and, you know, and it's just, you know, standing room only and only so many candidates could be here anyway. We're only targeting the ones that really need to help. That's why we're doing it in Texas. I, you know, I

[01:08:59] just, I just really, you know, you know, just the way that the president lies with no compunction. I mean, there's cameras. People saw that nobody was there. Right? And, you know, I just, yeah,

[01:09:31] it was, it was just a total mess. And I, it was a waste of time for them to do that. And that could be the final nail in the coffin, to be honest, as far as how that goes. But we'll see. We'll see, you know, the American people still have to vote. We still have to

[01:10:00] encourage people to vote. these folks out. It is still my prayer and my wish that all of them are gone, but the reality is that that's not going to happen. But, you know, what happened in Missouri now, you know, at least, you know, we'll still keep a black representative, it looks like, out of that state.

[01:10:30] Yeah, it's just, you know, it's time. And even in the districts where the odds are saying it's not looking good for these black candidates that are either incumbents or, you know, running in an open seat because of the cracking and redistricting. I'm holding out hope that they pull it off. Because the people that they're running against are clearly not qualified. They're

[01:11:00] qualified to be at that convention in Dallas and to take that pledge of loyalty, democracy, but they're not qualified to raise their right hand and take the oath to defend and uphold the Constitution. They're not. So, anyway, that's that. And then, I want to close it out. It's like, you know, we're dealing with two commemorations. We were dealing with two commemorations last week. One, of course, was 9-11. It's hard to believe. It's been

[01:11:30] 25 years since that happened. I still remember where I was when I heard the NPR newscast that the first plane had hit one of the towers in the World Trade Center. And just that whole day, how surreal that was. And the moment of unity that we had

[01:12:00] immediately after that. And to see how all of that unity has been dissolved in 25 years. To see how people who were lifted up as heroes and leaders during that time, how they fallen from grace. And

[01:12:31] see that in those 25 years, our members, not better. You know, one of the members, victim, you know, one of the family members of the victims got up there and was basically at the memorial and railing Saudi Arabia. And you

[01:13:00] would think that over that time, especially with bin Laden being kept, you know, killed, that things would have smoothed over. And if you're a Trump or a Kushner, it's probably smoothed over for you, but for the rest of the nation, they're still feeling some kind of way. And that was highlighted with the live golf tournaments, with the speculation of Saudis buying any one of the

[01:13:30] American sports teams, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, it's, it's just amazing. And I had hoped that, you know, with the country coming together and then Barack Obama getting elected and we were on a forward trajectory

[01:13:59] and it seems like all we did was just stir up the hornet's nest of racism and got all them folks out buzzing and they've really, really been acting foolish over these last few years. So, you know, I just, you know, it's hard to believe now that there are literally young adults who were born after people who are legal

[01:14:28] to drink now were born after 9-11. But, you know, it's the passage of time and how it goes and just some of the feelings out there. You know, people were saying that Mayor Mom Donnie should not be at the ceremony. It was like he was 9 years old when it happened. You know what I'm saying? How are you trying to blame him for it? I don't know.

[01:15:00] But we still got some work to do. Right? And then we're really just a year removed from Charlie Kirk being killed. And regardless of how you feel about him, including myself, that event was significant

[01:15:29] because it didn't unify us. It didn't get us to tone the rhetoric down. If anything, it's made it worse. And that's a shame because usually when somebody prominent dies, people have a moment of reflection and retrospect and kind of pull the reins and say maybe this has gone too far.

[01:16:00] And I don't remember us having that moment. I think some of us try to put it in context because none of us feels that our opinions are worth getting killed over. Right? Regardless of how you feel about them. Doesn't matter if it's Charlie Kirk in 2025 or Martin Luther King in 1968. Our opinions

[01:16:31] deserve a rebuttal but not a death sentence. So, you know, I just hope that the majority of us, especially those of y'all listening to the podcast and all that, I hope that you look at those two events, one that happened a year ago, one that happened 25 years ago, and start really reflecting on what kind of America we want.

[01:17:02] Do we want to be always on the brink of another civil war or do we want to have peace and prosperity in our time? Those are your choices. If you want peace and prosperity in our time, then you need to vote accordingly. And that's all I got to say about that. I really appreciate y'all

[01:17:32] listening. I appreciate y'all taking the time out to do it, whether it's on Monday when it's released or later in the week. I appreciate your feedback and comments and, you know, I just look forward to being able to continue to bring people to you that will better educate all of us

[01:18:01] and get us to that point where we can have peace and prosperity in this land. go to www.momanderic.com leave your reviews, comments, donations, whatever. But I just want to always close out by thanking y'all for listening. And until next time.

[01:19:08] NBG Podcast Network. Back.