Host Erik Fleming sits down with political analyst Chuck Todd and Birmingham advisor Ed Fields for candid conversations about American politics, civic leadership, and the evolving New South.
They discuss media independence, electoral dynamics, grassroots engagement, and the documentary "As Goes the South," highlighting how local action and storytelling shape national change.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
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00:01:15 --> 00:01:20 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:02:00 --> 00:02:05 Hello, and welcome to another moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:05 --> 00:02:13 And today, I have two distinguished gentlemen, two young men on the program as guests.
00:02:13 --> 00:02:18 One has been renowned as a political commentator.
00:02:19 --> 00:02:22 You probably have seen him if you pay attention to politics,
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 especially around the time when I was real active in it.
00:02:26 --> 00:02:33 And he's still one of the sharpest minds in the political commentary game,
00:02:34 --> 00:02:35 I guess for lack of a better term.
00:02:36 --> 00:02:42 And then the other is actually a public servant in the sense that he is an advisor
00:02:42 --> 00:02:45 for one of our city's mayors.
00:02:47 --> 00:02:55 That sounded kind of awkward, didn't it? One of the Southern mayors,
00:02:55 --> 00:03:02 he's been an integral part in advising and shaping the direction of that city.
00:03:03 --> 00:03:06 And of course, you know, I just teased at the beginning, and we'll get into
00:03:06 --> 00:03:11 the details when the interviews start. But it was really, really an honor to
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 have both of them agree to come on.
00:03:14 --> 00:03:18 And I hope that you enjoyed the conversations that I had with those gentlemen.
00:03:19 --> 00:03:26 If you are enjoying this podcast, please continue to listen, but also subscribe.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:32 Tell others about it. You know, write positive reviews about it.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:40 You know, send your comments about it. And you can do all that on www.momenterik.com.
00:03:40 --> 00:03:45 If there's an episode that you want to catch up on, you can do that on the website.
00:03:45 --> 00:03:49 If there's a particular guest that's like, I heard that so-and-so was on this
00:03:49 --> 00:03:55 podcast, you can look that up and find that episode on this website.
00:03:56 --> 00:04:03 So please go to www.momenterik.com and feel free to browse, check out all the
00:04:03 --> 00:04:07 features. If you want to know a little bit about me, you can do that also.
00:04:08 --> 00:04:13 But just your continued support would be greatly appreciated because in this time,
00:04:14 --> 00:04:20 in this day and age, we need to continue to support independent voices like
00:04:20 --> 00:04:28 mine to talk about what's really going on and to highlight people that's really doing the work.
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 So I thank you for that.
00:04:31 --> 00:04:34 All right. Now that I've got that out the way, it's time to get this show started.
00:04:34 --> 00:04:38 And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:51 Thanks, Erik. President Trump announced a two-week ceasefire with Iran and Israel,
00:04:52 --> 00:04:58 mediated by Pakistan, to halt a six-week regional war and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.
00:04:58 --> 00:05:04 U.S. Special Operations Forces successfully rescued a downed F-15 weapons systems
00:05:04 --> 00:05:09 officer from the mountains of Iran during a high-stakes mission that faced fierce resistance.
00:05:10 --> 00:05:15 Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth fired U.S. Army Chief of Staff Randy George.
00:05:16 --> 00:05:21 In a rare address, First Lady Melania Trump forcefully denied any personal or
00:05:21 --> 00:05:24 victim-based connection to Jeffrey Epstein.
00:05:25 --> 00:05:30 Republican Clay Fuller defeated Democrat Sean Harris to win a Georgia runoff
00:05:30 --> 00:05:34 election to succeed Marjorie Taylor Greene in the U.S. House of Representatives.
00:05:35 --> 00:05:41 A coalition of Democratic state attorneys general filed a federal lawsuit challenging
00:05:41 --> 00:05:45 President Trump's executive order that restricts mail-in voting procedures and
00:05:45 --> 00:05:49 tasks the USPS with verifying voter eligibility.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:56 President Trump's 2027 budget proposal prioritizes increased defense spending
00:05:56 --> 00:05:58 while cutting non-defense programs by 10%,
00:05:58 --> 00:06:05 specifically targeting the privatization of airport security and a $152 million
00:06:05 --> 00:06:10 project to transform Alcatraz into a high-security federal prison.
00:06:10 --> 00:06:16 Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed legislation allowing the state to designate
00:06:16 --> 00:06:18 groups as terrorist organizations.
00:06:19 --> 00:06:24 A Nevada judge issued an injunction preventing Kashi from offering unlicensed
00:06:24 --> 00:06:28 sports betting contracts, and a federal appeals court ruled that New Jersey
00:06:28 --> 00:06:32 cannot block the operator from offering sports prediction markets.
00:06:33 --> 00:06:38 A federal judge blocked the Department of Education from forcing 17 states to
00:06:38 --> 00:06:43 provide extensive student admissions data intended to track compliance with
00:06:43 --> 00:06:45 the Supreme Court's ban on affirmative action.
00:06:46 --> 00:06:50 The U.S. Department of Education is terminating several civil rights resolution
00:06:50 --> 00:06:55 agreements that protected transgender students in specific school districts.
00:06:56 --> 00:07:01 And the U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for the Justice Department to dismiss
00:07:01 --> 00:07:06 the criminal contempt of Congress case against Trump's ally, Steve Bannon.
00:07:06 --> 00:07:10 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:07:17 --> 00:07:24 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news. Now it is time for my guest, Chuck Todd.
00:07:24 --> 00:07:29 Chuck Todd is a renowned political analyst and the host of the Chuck Toddcast,
00:07:30 --> 00:07:34 the weekly podcast offering in-depth interviews with political figures and experts.
00:07:35 --> 00:07:41 A six-time Emmy Award winner, Todd was NBC News chief political analyst and
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 moderator of Meet to Press from 2014 to 2023.
00:07:45 --> 00:07:51 He also hosted Meet the Press Now, a daily show on NBC News Now,
00:07:51 --> 00:07:55 providing timely political analysis to a digital audience.
00:07:55 --> 00:08:00 Known for his sharp insight and encyclopedic knowledge of politics,
00:08:00 --> 00:08:05 Todd has co-moderated multiple presidential debates, including the record-breaking
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 2019 and 2020 Democratic debates.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:15 He previously served as NBC News' chief White House correspondent and hosted
00:08:15 --> 00:08:17 the Daily Rundown on MSNBC.
00:08:17 --> 00:08:22 Todd is the author of two books and has contributed to The New York Times,
00:08:22 --> 00:08:24 The Washington Post, and The Atlantic.
00:08:24 --> 00:08:29 He teaches how Washington works as the inaugural scholar-in-residence for the
00:08:29 --> 00:08:34 University of Southern California's Capitol Campus in Washington, D.C.
00:08:34 --> 00:08:40 Todd resides in Arlington, Virginia, with his wife, Christian, and their two children.
00:08:41 --> 00:08:45 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have,
00:08:45 --> 00:08:49 as a guest on this podcast, Chuck Todd.
00:09:00 --> 00:09:05 All right. Chuck Todd. How are you doing, sir? Erik Fleming.
00:09:05 --> 00:09:06 It's a pleasure to be here.
00:09:07 --> 00:09:11 I always say this. Personally, I'm doing great. So it means I have the luxury
00:09:11 --> 00:09:16 to worry about how everything else feels like it's going to you know where some
00:09:16 --> 00:09:17 days here in Washington.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:22 Well, I understand. And you're you're right in the epicenter of all that stuff.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:28 I guess I'm kind of in the in the fault line a little bit being here in Atlanta.
00:09:28 --> 00:09:32 But but so I definitely share your sentiments personally.
00:09:32 --> 00:09:37 Everything's cool politically. Not so much.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:41 But but, you know, you and I have have seen a number of these things.
00:09:41 --> 00:09:46 And and we know that there's hope on the other side. And we'll get to that some
00:09:46 --> 00:09:49 in some part. I'm glad to hear you have optimism.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:54 I always try really hard to have it, you know, because if you don't have optimism,
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 then we're in deep trouble. That's exactly right.
00:09:57 --> 00:10:00 All right, look, so let's go ahead and get this started, because I know that
00:10:00 --> 00:10:06 you're a very important man, and I want to maximize the time that I've got with you.
00:10:07 --> 00:10:14 And so let's start off with a quote. This is from Plato, and I want you to give
00:10:14 --> 00:10:15 me your response to this.
00:10:15 --> 00:10:20 No, this is not from Plato. This is from somebody else. Oh, no, it is from Plato.
00:10:20 --> 00:10:24 One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end
00:10:24 --> 00:10:28 up being governed by your inferiors. What does that quote mean?
00:10:31 --> 00:10:36 Well, I look at it as if you don't vote, you don't have a right to complain.
00:10:37 --> 00:10:44 Right. And if that's why sometimes you got to make a choice between two entities
00:10:44 --> 00:10:49 that you're not thrilled with, because ultimately, if you want skin in the game
00:10:49 --> 00:10:50 and you want to be able to.
00:10:52 --> 00:10:56 Complain from the high ground, you better vote. You better participate. Yeah.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:02 All right. Now, my next icebreaker, as I refer to it, is called 20 questions.
00:11:03 --> 00:11:07 So, I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.
00:11:07 --> 00:11:13 We'll go with, my son's about to turn 19, my youngest, so we'll do 19. All right.
00:11:14 --> 00:11:19 What are some values you think most people share, even if they express them
00:11:19 --> 00:11:26 differently? I think we're all basically have the same moral and ethical lines that we draw.
00:11:26 --> 00:11:36 I think sometimes we will twist our morality and our ethics a little bit sometimes
00:11:36 --> 00:11:40 to out of defensiveness about our politics sometimes.
00:11:40 --> 00:11:47 But ultimately, you know, I'm, I am a, I think most of us have,
00:11:47 --> 00:11:53 have, you know, are, are living within sort of reasonable boundaries of what's
00:11:53 --> 00:11:59 ethical, what's moral, you know, you make laws not for the 95%,
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 you make laws for the 5%, right?
00:12:01 --> 00:12:03 Most people don't want to murder people.
00:12:04 --> 00:12:08 So why would you have a law against it? Well, because if you don't and you have
00:12:08 --> 00:12:14 no opportunity to have accountability and there's certainly some boundaries
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 that are necessary for all of society to feel safe and secure.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 And I know that seems – I just – you know, you –.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:25 I always sometimes try to look at politicians that I disagree with,
00:12:25 --> 00:12:27 and I think, what if they were my neighbor?
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 And I think, and then I look at them, and if I think they'd be a good neighbor,
00:12:33 --> 00:12:36 then I'm going to more likely at least hear what they have to say.
00:12:37 --> 00:12:39 If I don't think they'd be a good neighbor, then they're probably not a good
00:12:39 --> 00:12:43 person. And it's sort of a test I've always sort of put in my own head.
00:12:43 --> 00:12:48 I'll give you another one that I do with individuals. I think to myself,
00:12:48 --> 00:12:53 if I called them, if I, if I was arrested and I need to be bailed out of jail.
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 Would they, would they show up?
00:12:56 --> 00:13:00 And then there's sort of two tests, would they show up and would they not talk about it?
00:13:01 --> 00:13:04 And I've always had three categories of friends and acquaintances, right?
00:13:04 --> 00:13:09 You have those that would show up, not say a word and just, you know,
00:13:09 --> 00:13:13 those that would show up and let everybody know that they did it for you,
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 but they'd be there, but they'd make sure you never forgot it.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 And there are those that wouldn't return the call, right? Because they couldn't
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 be bothered. But the point is, is that I think most of us want to be good.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:29 We want to do the right thing when it's there. So I choose to believe that maybe
00:13:29 --> 00:13:32 the Trump era has delivered an MRI.
00:13:33 --> 00:13:35 I've always, I call the Trump era an MRI for all of us, right?
00:13:35 --> 00:13:39 We're learning about a lot of people, a lot of institutions,
00:13:39 --> 00:13:42 a lot of people and how they handle a moment like this.
00:13:43 --> 00:13:47 But I still genuinely believe that, that we're mostly, you know,
00:13:47 --> 00:13:48 I used to say that about Congress.
00:13:48 --> 00:13:52 I said, you know, Congress agrees on 90% of the things they do.
00:13:52 --> 00:13:54 It's the 10% that we're constantly arguing about.
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 And I'm still mostly want to believe that. Yeah.
00:13:57 --> 00:14:02 And, you know, personal experience, that's, you know, state legislatures,
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 same way, deliberative bodies.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:08 The part that makes the news is the part where we disagree because,
00:14:09 --> 00:14:13 you know, I still have memories of just sitting back during the appropriations
00:14:13 --> 00:14:17 process with that long stick and just hitting the button, you know,
00:14:18 --> 00:14:19 just keep the process going, you know.
00:14:20 --> 00:14:27 And that test you have, I've never articulated it that way, but I have that same scale in my mind.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:30 Yeah, I think about that with friends.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:36 Who would show up? You know, I sit there, who would show up?
00:14:36 --> 00:14:40 You know, and yeah, sorry about that. Didn't mean that. That's all right.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:45 All right. So did your penchant as a child to play the game,
00:14:45 --> 00:14:50 kill the man, give you an advantage in becoming a political journalist and commentator?
00:14:50 --> 00:14:56 And full disclosure, in Chicago, where I grew up, we played the same version,
00:14:56 --> 00:15:01 but we were very specific as far as making sure who we were.
00:15:02 --> 00:15:06 We called it kill the man with the ball because we didn't just want people to get hit for no reason.
00:15:09 --> 00:15:12 Yeah, we play. I mean, I remember playing a version of that.
00:15:13 --> 00:15:17 I have to tell you, I think that is not what I think gave me.
00:15:18 --> 00:15:22 Here's what I always credit. I credit two things in my ability,
00:15:23 --> 00:15:27 in what I think has been my ability to understand sort of politics.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 One is I grew up in a mixed religious family.
00:15:31 --> 00:15:34 My mother's Jewish, my father was not.
00:15:35 --> 00:15:38 More importantly, my father's family didn't know, I think my mother,
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 for many of them, was the first Jewish person they'd ever met.
00:15:43 --> 00:15:48 And I grew up with more of that tension than I fully realized until later in life.
00:15:48 --> 00:15:51 You know, and I start to remember something, you know, like,
00:15:51 --> 00:15:58 huh, why did, why did my grandfather's girlfriend always serve pork only when my mother came?
00:15:59 --> 00:16:03 It was like these weird sort of passive aggressive things. And then I understood
00:16:03 --> 00:16:07 why my mother didn't like to come with my dad and I when we'd go visit his dad
00:16:07 --> 00:16:09 and certain things like that.
00:16:09 --> 00:16:14 But I watched how my parents navigated that on both sides because there were
00:16:14 --> 00:16:18 family members that were very critical of my mother because she wasn't raising me Jewish enough.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 And I'd see the criticism on, you know, it was this constant.
00:16:22 --> 00:16:28 And so, and then I grew up in Miami in the seventies and eighties,
00:16:28 --> 00:16:33 which I look back at as saying, Hey, we went through all of this.
00:16:33 --> 00:16:38 Who's an American, the other rising, everything before everybody else did.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:43 And we kind of figured it out. And now Miami's Hong Kong or Singapore, right?
00:16:44 --> 00:16:48 One of the coolest spots on earth, right? To go hang out. And we kind of figured it out.
00:16:49 --> 00:16:54 And so it has allowed me, like, I feel like I understand the Trump divide today
00:16:54 --> 00:16:58 better because of when I grew up, the time and era I grew up and the actual
00:16:58 --> 00:17:04 location that I grew up and the unique circumstances of my own,
00:17:05 --> 00:17:06 parentage, if you will, right?
00:17:06 --> 00:17:12 Where, look, I didn't grow up in a mixed race climate, but mixed religion gives you a taste of it.
00:17:13 --> 00:17:19 So I'd like to think that I was better than the average white guy in at least
00:17:19 --> 00:17:23 understanding some otherizing that other people took place. Yeah.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:28 Yeah. When did you realize that you were pretty good at analyzing politics?
00:17:29 --> 00:17:30 So...
00:17:32 --> 00:17:36 Well, I know when I got into it, I had a cousin stay with us.
00:17:36 --> 00:17:40 It was a summer for my freshman year in high school.
00:17:40 --> 00:17:44 And I had a cousin who was coming down and he needed a place to stay.
00:17:44 --> 00:17:45 He was working on a campaign.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:50 And Florida used to elect, used to have eight to 10 statewide elected offices.
00:17:50 --> 00:17:55 They've since consolidated it all into what they call the CFO now.
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 There used to be, and there was an elected secretary of state,
00:17:58 --> 00:18:01 an elected secretary of education, and they still have the elected secretary
00:18:01 --> 00:18:03 of agriculture. but it's much more limited.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:07 I think they just do agriculture and AG and CFO now, plus governor.
00:18:07 --> 00:18:12 But it used to be about more of like what California does and even Texas.
00:18:13 --> 00:18:18 And so he's working on one of those campaigns. And I just got, I just love the numbers.
00:18:18 --> 00:18:22 And look, I'll just, you know, I was kind of a seam head for baseball,
00:18:22 --> 00:18:25 you know, and was totally in every Sunday.
00:18:26 --> 00:18:30 My dad and I would be, we scour the, in the Sunday sports section,
00:18:30 --> 00:18:33 they'd give you the weeks, like all of the statistics for all of the,
00:18:33 --> 00:18:36 all of the hitters and the pitchers and the major leagues.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:40 And, and we had our own little sort of contest, you know, he read about these,
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 this new thing called rotisserie baseball.
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 And of course it becomes the pre, the precursor to fantasy baseball.
00:18:46 --> 00:18:50 So I was always kind of a numbers kind of into it. And it was,
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 it was sort of shadowing my cousin who was kind of like a brother to me.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:59 I was an only child on that campaign that sort of where I realized it was a strategy, right?
00:18:59 --> 00:19:03 It was sort of a, you know, all right, where you got to go find these voters, where this.
00:19:03 --> 00:19:05 So that's sort of where I got into it.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:09 I don't, I don't know when I, when I decided I was good at it.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 I just sort of started to make a living at it pretty early in, in, in college.
00:19:13 --> 00:19:16 So, you know, and it just sort of, I always credit that.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:23 The internet with my big break, the, you know, sort of web 1.0 where all of
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 the older journalists didn't have time to write for the internet because they
00:19:26 --> 00:19:27 wanted to be in the newspaper.
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 And suddenly it was a bunch of us 20 somethings that got the opportunity.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:36 So I feel like it was around there. Yeah.
00:19:37 --> 00:19:42 Yeah. Something about, there's definitely a correlation with being a baseball nerd in politics.
00:19:42 --> 00:19:46 Oh, I've come across a few, a few of the, And a few of these guys,
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 Tom Davis, a former Republican congressman, is like a total seam head.
00:19:50 --> 00:19:54 Sherrod Brown could tell you more about the Guardians and Indians baseball history
00:19:54 --> 00:19:58 than any person alive. And he's like, he goes deep.
00:19:58 --> 00:20:02 A former, Steve Israel goes, it is, you're not wrong. There is a,
00:20:02 --> 00:20:03 there definitely is a correlation.
00:20:04 --> 00:20:10 One of my favorite arguments was with a colleague. He was a state senator.
00:20:10 --> 00:20:16 And we must argue for about 15, 20 minutes about the merits of the DH in baseball.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:21 And he was so passionate against it. And I was like, you got to get with the times, man.
00:20:21 --> 00:20:26 He said, no, no, no, the pitchers should bat all that. I mean, he was hot. So.
00:20:26 --> 00:20:30 Yeah. Well, if your pitch is Shohei Otani, I'm all for it. That's right.
00:20:31 --> 00:20:35 The pitchers back in the day were more like Shohei, but not the guys.
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 Well, and you know, most pitchers, because you and I both know this,
00:20:38 --> 00:20:43 you know when you were in in little league the best player played every position
00:20:43 --> 00:20:47 he had to play shortstop he had a pitch that's right so just about every pitcher
00:20:47 --> 00:20:52 was probably the shortstop on her team or the catcher as well that's right yeah
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 yeah i think i read something where,
00:20:55 --> 00:21:02 paul skenes was the catcher on this all-star team and pete crow armstrong was the pitcher.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:10 It is amazing all right so now we're going to take a a turn,
00:21:11 --> 00:21:13 The warmup is over. Yeah, the warmup's over. The nice stuff.
00:21:13 --> 00:21:15 Now we got to get into the nitty gritty stuff.
00:21:16 --> 00:21:22 Did the arrest of Don Lemon and Georgia Ford alarm you as an independent journalist? It did.
00:21:22 --> 00:21:27 Because, you know, the biggest concern I have in this independent space right
00:21:27 --> 00:21:31 now, the good news is, I think the word independent has kind of a halo effect.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:35 You know, in politics, if you're a first-time candidate and you get to call
00:21:35 --> 00:21:39 yourself small business owner, boy, automatically someone's going,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:41 oh, yeah, you know what's going on.
00:21:41 --> 00:21:45 There's this halo effect for small businessmen, small businesswoman,
00:21:45 --> 00:21:47 or even successful business.
00:21:47 --> 00:21:53 There's a competency that voters automatically ascribe to somebody like that.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:57 And I think right now, in this very polarized and partisan climate,
00:21:58 --> 00:22:02 being an independent, I'm a political independent, I'm an independent journalist.
00:22:02 --> 00:22:03 I think it's very helpful.
00:22:04 --> 00:22:09 The downside of this independent status and the downside of not working at a
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 big news organization is those protections, those legal protections.
00:22:13 --> 00:22:17 I worry about this a lot and what happened to Don Lemon.
00:22:17 --> 00:22:22 And it's like, look, you know, there's I had a debate with a colleague of mine
00:22:22 --> 00:22:24 and he's like, well, Don Lemon's an activist.
00:22:24 --> 00:22:27 And I said, you know, one person's activist is another person's journalist.
00:22:29 --> 00:22:32 And discerning that, you know, and I said, what's Thomas Paine?
00:22:33 --> 00:22:36 Was he a journalist or was he an activist, right? Did it matter,
00:22:37 --> 00:22:40 right? You know, he had a voice, he had a platform, and he used it.
00:22:41 --> 00:22:45 At the end of the day, plenty of good journalism.
00:22:47 --> 00:22:52 Tracks with activism, meaning they're there to chronicle what is happening and
00:22:52 --> 00:22:56 the arrest of him and the sort of the let's it wasn't just an arrest.
00:22:56 --> 00:23:02 It was kind of it was an attempt to to showcase it in some sort and demean,
00:23:02 --> 00:23:08 you know, I'm not going to sit here and say that how Don Lemon does his podcast
00:23:08 --> 00:23:10 versus how I do it the same way.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:16 But that doesn't mean his form is any more or less journalism than my form is,
00:23:16 --> 00:23:18 right? So it was very alarming.
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 And I'll just be honest with you, Eric, I've been working. I mean,
00:23:21 --> 00:23:27 one of the things that I'm, I want to try to build is a sustainable network
00:23:27 --> 00:23:32 that is somewhat of an ad network, but also can provide,
00:23:32 --> 00:23:36 because I think, look, the last thing being associated with,
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 with one of these big corporations, I would have defended just three years ago.
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 You know, when my friend Richard Engel got kidnapped, Comcast was not going
00:23:45 --> 00:23:48 to allow him to wither away and die and disappear.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:55 And they had the contacts and the muscle to force the government to do everything that was possible.
00:23:56 --> 00:24:00 There's some security there. There's plenty of my friends in the freelance world
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 who don't have that kind of protection.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:06 So I worry about the lack of those resources. At the same time,
00:24:06 --> 00:24:12 there was a, I don't want to call it censoring, but there was a smothering effect.
00:24:13 --> 00:24:17 You know, when these corporate entities who have their own, look,
00:24:17 --> 00:24:21 I sit here and say left brain and right brain, I'll rotate using them.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:26 It's a rational decision that Disney does not want to pick a fight with the
00:24:26 --> 00:24:30 Trump administration over a part of their business that's less than 5% of their
00:24:30 --> 00:24:32 bottom line, which is ABC News.
00:24:32 --> 00:24:38 But settling that lawsuit against that ridiculous, frivolous lawsuit against
00:24:38 --> 00:24:44 George Stephanopoulos, they created the conditions with which suddenly everybody
00:24:44 --> 00:24:46 in that space lost credibility.
00:24:47 --> 00:24:51 So I worry about us not having enough legal protection in this independent space,
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 that we could all get sued out of existence.
00:24:55 --> 00:24:57 And that in some ways is a tactic, right?
00:24:58 --> 00:25:05 That's a feature for one part of this world. So I was very alarmed and it is,
00:25:05 --> 00:25:10 I know that myself and others were trying to figure out, I got a friend of mine,
00:25:10 --> 00:25:12 Tara Palmieri, who's been doing terrific work on Epstein.
00:25:13 --> 00:25:18 She looked into getting insurance, some legal protection and couldn't get insured
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 because they said, well, you're covering Epstein, right?
00:25:21 --> 00:25:24 They were just worried that these rich people could sue her out of existence and all of that.
00:25:24 --> 00:25:27 And that's the chilling effect of that arrest.
00:25:27 --> 00:25:31 And that's what I don't want to see get mainstream. yeah,
00:25:32 --> 00:25:37 You said the most successful politicians are the ones who embrace their best
00:25:37 --> 00:25:40 traits while turning their liabilities into lovable attributes.
00:25:41 --> 00:25:47 And yet many a candidate tries to run as something they aren't simply because the strategy dictated.
00:25:48 --> 00:25:52 The hardest thing to do in politics is campaign as someone you aren't.
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 People can spot an imposter from a mile away.
00:25:55 --> 00:26:01 So the question is, would it be fair to say that President Trump embodied that rule?
00:26:02 --> 00:26:09 Look that's the thing right he's not one thing that people i think no matter how long you know,
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 there that expression he is who he is right he
00:26:13 --> 00:26:21 he you kind of know who he is and so i always said he's one of the lines i've
00:26:21 --> 00:26:26 also used under me he's authentically inauthentic meaning we know he's sort
00:26:26 --> 00:26:30 of a salesman who's just going to tell us anything we want to hear but i think
00:26:30 --> 00:26:32 for a certain group of voters, they're like, yeah,
00:26:32 --> 00:26:37 well, the other politicians do that, but they don't tell us. At least he admits it.
00:26:37 --> 00:26:41 Right. He will every once in a while break that fourth wall and say it.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 I think there's a lot. This is this is one of the problems.
00:26:45 --> 00:26:51 I think there is a lot to learn from Trump that many a candidate on both sides
00:26:51 --> 00:26:52 of the aisle hasn't learned.
00:26:52 --> 00:26:56 For instance, there's not a media outlet that Trump won't talk to.
00:26:57 --> 00:27:01 I don't see any politician today practicing that. And you're sitting there going,
00:27:02 --> 00:27:08 why was Trump, why did Trump have the ability to talk to, to create a coalition
00:27:08 --> 00:27:11 of a lot of voters who voted Obama?
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 Well, he was willing to go anywhere and willing to talk to anybody.
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 And to me, if you're running for elective office, you should have that attitude.
00:27:19 --> 00:27:22 And if, if you are, if you don't want to deal with hostile media,
00:27:23 --> 00:27:24 then don't get into politics.
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 You should run towards it, not run away from it.
00:27:27 --> 00:27:32 If you've decided to run, it kind of means you think you have some answers,
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 so you shouldn't be afraid of the confrontation.
00:27:35 --> 00:27:40 So I think that because Trump is so toxic as a character to many people,
00:27:41 --> 00:27:43 there's a fear of ever looking like you emulate him.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:47 But there are things to borrow from him, right?
00:27:47 --> 00:27:53 Which is, you know, say what you mean, you know, sometimes speak,
00:27:53 --> 00:27:56 speak bluntly, but you better mean what you say.
00:27:56 --> 00:28:00 I do think over time, and this is, eventually that does wear it out.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:05 And I think he's at, I do think he's, I think there are times when presidencies
00:28:05 --> 00:28:09 end, but we just don't know it yet. And then in about a year,
00:28:09 --> 00:28:11 we look back, oh, the presidency ended then.
00:28:12 --> 00:28:15 I remember with George W. Bush. Yeah, the 2006 midterms.
00:28:16 --> 00:28:20 But when you actually look back, his presidency came to an end when he got involved
00:28:20 --> 00:28:21 in that Terry Schiavo mess.
00:28:22 --> 00:28:25 And people were like, wait a minute, you know, you've got Iraq,
00:28:25 --> 00:28:30 you've got this, you're, what do you, you know, hey, this has gotten too far.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:35 And the Republicans have too much unified power. And then voters said no more, right?
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 And, you know, So Haley Barber, since you're an old Mississippi guy,
00:28:39 --> 00:28:41 Haley Barber is one of my favorite savings sayings in politics.
00:28:42 --> 00:28:43 Good gets better, bad gets worse.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:49 And sometimes, you know, and and and I do think we will look back and say Trump's
00:28:49 --> 00:28:50 presidency probably ended.
00:28:51 --> 00:28:56 You know, maybe it ended on Liberation Day, you know, when we look back.
00:28:57 --> 00:29:03 Or maybe it ended the day that a second person was murdered in Minneapolis by an ICE agent.
00:29:03 --> 00:29:08 But, like, you could tell when people just sort of lose where they're just,
00:29:08 --> 00:29:09 there's no recovering from it.
00:29:10 --> 00:29:13 Joe Biden, I think in hindsight, the Afghanistan withdrawal. He never recovered.
00:29:13 --> 00:29:15 Yeah. With a certain group of voters.
00:29:16 --> 00:29:21 You know, which also tells me that he didn't come in with a strong base of support,
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 right? His support was a mile wide, but an inch deep.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:28 And that and because you find that out when times are tough.
00:29:28 --> 00:29:33 One thing about Trump is that he certainly has a depth of support with the with
00:29:33 --> 00:29:36 the with the shrinking group of people that still support him. It's deep.
00:29:37 --> 00:29:44 But I do think that his consistent sort of blow, you know, sort of overselling
00:29:44 --> 00:29:48 and under delivering is finally caught up with. Yeah.
00:29:49 --> 00:29:55 You said someday the public might actually revolt against undemocratic,
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 the undemocratic system of seniority that allows Congress to keep the old ways
00:30:00 --> 00:30:04 of Washington ingrained into the culture of Congress.
00:30:04 --> 00:30:09 So will the 2026 midterms be that bellwether election?
00:30:09 --> 00:30:14 Hmm. I don't think so yet. I think we're, I think we've, look,
00:30:14 --> 00:30:20 we've, we've been, both parties are kind of, have, have become reactionary parties.
00:30:20 --> 00:30:26 Right. And it really, right. You could argue it started in 06, right.
00:30:26 --> 00:30:33 It was a reaction to, to Bush and, you know, the Democrats were unified against what they didn't like.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:36 They weren't necessarily unified for what they were for.
00:30:36 --> 00:30:40 The Republicans did the same thing in 2010, right?
00:30:40 --> 00:30:44 They, they sort of, they, they, they knew what they didn't, right?
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 They were unified and opposing Obama.
00:30:46 --> 00:30:51 So it was reactionary. And we've been in this reactionary mode now for 20 years.
00:30:52 --> 00:30:56 And I think we're not through it yet. So, I mean, you sort of,
00:30:57 --> 00:31:02 you know, just like in 2010, when that sort of first wave of Tea Party conservatives
00:31:02 --> 00:31:08 succeeded, there was tension inside the party, but it got papered over by the success in November.
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 I think 26 is a mirror image of that for the Democrats.
00:31:13 --> 00:31:17 They're going to have a lot of success in November. but we we're starting we
00:31:17 --> 00:31:22 see in these primaries that there's there's a there is a divide that's real
00:31:22 --> 00:31:30 right and it's you know i think it's not as clean as left versus center i think some of it is.
00:31:31 --> 00:31:38 Is is a little bit of of establishment versus outsider right it's more insider
00:31:38 --> 00:31:40 outsider than it is left versus center.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 Because I look at somebody like Molly McMorrow, I keep calling her Molly,
00:31:45 --> 00:31:51 Mallory McMorrow in Michigan, she's not the most progressive,
00:31:51 --> 00:31:56 but she's got the best outsider credentials of the three, I think.
00:31:56 --> 00:31:58 At least she's the right combination.
00:31:58 --> 00:32:03 And I think that you're seeing that she's sort of getting a little more,
00:32:03 --> 00:32:09 so almost splitting the anti-establishment vote with Abdul El-Sayed a little bit.
00:32:09 --> 00:32:15 But I think that we're not done, you know, I think both parties are too big
00:32:15 --> 00:32:17 for the coalitions they represent, right?
00:32:17 --> 00:32:21 We'd be in a much better place if we were a four-party, four-major party system.
00:32:21 --> 00:32:26 We basically have two political parties shoved into one on the left and vice
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 versa on the right, right? You have sort of a Chamber of Commerce party,
00:32:30 --> 00:32:33 a Nationalist party on the right, you know, with sort of, I think,
00:32:34 --> 00:32:35 Nikki Haley and Donald Trump.
00:32:35 --> 00:32:39 And then you kind of have a progressive sort of Greens, however you want to
00:32:39 --> 00:32:41 look at it, with a Bernie or an AOC over here.
00:32:41 --> 00:32:46 And then you got sort of your, I don't know, think Josh Shapiro or even Gavin Newsom.
00:32:46 --> 00:32:50 You know, he may rhetorically be anti-Trump, but he's a pretty business,
00:32:50 --> 00:32:53 you know, sort of liberal pro-business guy.
00:32:53 --> 00:32:59 And that's sort of your four divides, right? And, and I think both parties are
00:32:59 --> 00:33:03 neither side as a majority within the party. And that that's where the tension comes.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 And, you know, I wish we were a four party system.
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09 I think I actually think it would alleviate some of the polarization.
00:33:11 --> 00:33:16 You said another Chuck Todd quote, you said every election matters.
00:33:16 --> 00:33:20 Anyone that tells you otherwise doesn't understand politics.
00:33:20 --> 00:33:25 That said, not every election sends sweeping messages that are easy to discern.
00:33:26 --> 00:33:33 But every election provides lessons worth learning. So what will be the lesson of the 2026 midterms?
00:33:34 --> 00:33:37 I don't know yet because we don't know,
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42 I'm pretty convinced it's going to be a Democratic sweep. The question,
00:33:43 --> 00:33:50 though, is, how do Democrats, do they think they got a mandate to oppose Trump?
00:33:50 --> 00:33:56 Do they think they have a mandate to work with Trump where they can,
00:33:57 --> 00:33:58 but check them where they can't?
00:33:58 --> 00:34:06 Where they also does this, you know, 26 is more consequential if it leads to
00:34:06 --> 00:34:10 an eventual two-term president being elected.
00:34:10 --> 00:34:16 So, for instance, I think 06 is more consequential now in hindsight for the
00:34:16 --> 00:34:19 Democrats because it led to Obama in two terms.
00:34:20 --> 00:34:26 Right. And it was basically it was the election that sort of sweeped away the
00:34:26 --> 00:34:27 20th century Democrats.
00:34:27 --> 00:34:30 Right. It sort of pushed aside most of the Clinton wing.
00:34:33 --> 00:34:39 So that's why I just think, do Democrats think they don't have a brand problem
00:34:39 --> 00:34:41 if they win both the House and Senate?
00:34:41 --> 00:34:45 Or do they behave like they know they still have a brand problem even though
00:34:45 --> 00:34:48 they win both the House and the Senate? I think I kind of know what's going to happen.
00:34:49 --> 00:34:53 And I think that's going to be the difficulty.
00:34:54 --> 00:35:00 I've, I've compared the era we're living in to the period of history between
00:35:00 --> 00:35:01 Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln.
00:35:02 --> 00:35:06 We had seven presidencies in 24 years.
00:35:07 --> 00:35:11 And it was this consistent, every new president thought they were the one that
00:35:11 --> 00:35:12 was going to bring the country together.
00:35:12 --> 00:35:16 They had the answer without dealing with the real issue.
00:35:16 --> 00:35:21 Right. There was one issue and yet all these politicians kept trying to dance around it.
00:35:21 --> 00:35:25 And in fact, the public got so frustrated with it that they got rid of one party.
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30 And because the abolitionists were like, man, the Whigs are just,
00:35:30 --> 00:35:31 they're not, they're too weak.
00:35:32 --> 00:35:35 They cannot stand up to these guys. Right. We ended up getting a new party and
00:35:35 --> 00:35:42 Lincoln comes along and you need, I mean, I look at that and say, look, look what it took.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:47 It took a brand new political party to break the polarization of the 19th century
00:35:47 --> 00:35:54 and to actually directly deal with the issue at hand with slavery and the larger
00:35:54 --> 00:35:56 question of who gets to be an American.
00:35:57 --> 00:36:00 And I kind of think we're having the same debate right now, right,
00:36:00 --> 00:36:05 that the fundamental divide, right, that is who gets to be an American and what does that mean?
00:36:06 --> 00:36:10 And I still think we're having this, we're having this fight at the moment.
00:36:10 --> 00:36:14 So I think we're still a few election cycles away from, you know,
00:36:14 --> 00:36:20 I don't think we've stumbled onto Lincoln or Washington or Eisenhower just yet or FDR, right?
00:36:20 --> 00:36:24 You know, there's a feeling that, you know, we haven't found that.
00:36:24 --> 00:36:28 I don't know whether we're not exhausted enough yet, whatever it is,
00:36:28 --> 00:36:32 but I think, you know, part of it is, is just simply.
00:36:33 --> 00:36:38 Neither party has been losing an election by enough to force themselves to change.
00:36:38 --> 00:36:42 When you only lose by a little, you think, well, geez, if I just raised a few
00:36:42 --> 00:36:47 more dollars, knocked on a few more doors, you know, ran a few more ads, maybe I would have won.
00:36:48 --> 00:36:50 And so you don't have to change things that much.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:54 But it all depends on whether you want to have a governing mandate or not.
00:36:54 --> 00:36:59 You know, I think the hallmark of the presidents of my young,
00:36:59 --> 00:37:06 of our childhood, essentially, where they always strove to try to be 60% of presidents.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:10 That didn't mean they would win 60% of the vote, but if they weren't close to
00:37:10 --> 00:37:12 60% in job approval, they didn't think they were doing well,
00:37:13 --> 00:37:14 right? I think that was the Reagan mantra.
00:37:14 --> 00:37:16 I think that was Bill Clinton's mantra. I do.
00:37:18 --> 00:37:21 George W. Bush sort of changed the equation to 50% plus one.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 Obama is the last one that got close to 60, right? He got into the 56,
00:37:26 --> 00:37:32 57 range, but we're living in this sort of 50% where now just 45% job rating
00:37:32 --> 00:37:34 is considered survivable these days.
00:37:35 --> 00:37:40 So I don't, I'm not convinced yet that we're there. I think we're going to have
00:37:40 --> 00:37:42 another reactionary midterm. Just think about it.
00:37:43 --> 00:37:46 Every single election in the 21st century,
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 but two have essentially been a referendum on some party in power.
00:37:52 --> 00:37:54 Either, you know, we threw out the party in the White House,
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 threw out the party controlling the Senate, or threw out the party controlling the House.
00:37:57 --> 00:38:02 It's an unprecedented amount of time that we've done that, which means we know
00:38:02 --> 00:38:06 what we don't want, but we haven't found what we're looking for yet. Yeah.
00:38:06 --> 00:38:14 So to follow up on a scale, would it be a blue tsunami, a blue wave, or a blue high tide?
00:38:15 --> 00:38:18 I'd probably bet on wave for now. I think that's, is that the middle,
00:38:19 --> 00:38:20 is that the middle ground? Yeah.
00:38:20 --> 00:38:23 I think I would bet wave for now.
00:38:24 --> 00:38:31 Let me think of what, what tsunami tsunami would mean for me,
00:38:31 --> 00:38:35 six to eight Senate seats and 40 plus house seats.
00:38:36 --> 00:38:37 I just don't know if the math's there.
00:38:39 --> 00:38:42 Now this war is pretty, this war is only going to get more unpopular.
00:38:42 --> 00:38:49 Like the the economy the reason why i think this we're already maybe sitting at wave is,
00:38:50 --> 00:38:55 this this is not going to turn around this economy doesn't turn around even
00:38:55 --> 00:39:01 if the war stopped right now the infrastructure that was destroyed in the gulf the amount of you know,
00:39:02 --> 00:39:08 we may be insulated from from a supply shock in this country but not a price shock Right.
00:39:09 --> 00:39:11 You know, our oil is still going to be on the global market.
00:39:12 --> 00:39:14 So we're the prices are going to be higher.
00:39:14 --> 00:39:19 And that's just going to be as we've seen. Right. That's just going to hit inflation. And we know.
00:39:20 --> 00:39:25 Voters, three presidencies ended in the 70s because of inflation,
00:39:25 --> 00:39:27 right? Inflation does not know partisanship.
00:39:28 --> 00:39:31 They just, it is, the voter gets angry when they're paying more.
00:39:31 --> 00:39:36 So I think even if this war ends tomorrow, it's it. So I think it's blue wave.
00:39:36 --> 00:39:41 For tsunami, and I think it's four Senate seats and 25, you know,
00:39:41 --> 00:39:45 anything over 20, that feels like a wave with the way these numbers,
00:39:45 --> 00:39:47 with the way these districts are drawn.
00:39:47 --> 00:39:51 But I wouldn't rule out tsunami. I think tsunami is more likely than a,
00:39:51 --> 00:39:54 than just sort of a, where I
00:39:54 --> 00:39:57 think a tsunami is more likely than the Democrats just winning the house.
00:39:57 --> 00:40:03 How's that? Yeah. Yeah. Cause that, that would be to me, the tide just, you just win the house.
00:40:03 --> 00:40:06 That's right. That would, that's just sort of, that's, that's the end table
00:40:06 --> 00:40:08 stakes, right. For playing poker, right.
00:40:09 --> 00:40:11 It's just the ante. Yeah. You want everybody's ante. That's it.
00:40:12 --> 00:40:16 Yeah. All right. So last question, and I've been asking everybody this,
00:40:16 --> 00:40:22 this year to end, finish this sentence. I have hope because.
00:40:23 --> 00:40:27 I have hope because we've been through this before as a country.
00:40:27 --> 00:40:32 We get through this as voters. The only issue, Erik, the only issue in every
00:40:32 --> 00:40:37 one of these lessons that we've done in America, it's the great Churchill quote
00:40:37 --> 00:40:38 that I'm going to butcher here, right?
00:40:38 --> 00:40:42 Which is the Americans will always do the right thing after they've exhausted every other path.
00:40:44 --> 00:40:50 I really believe that about us. And the only question is how many people have
00:40:50 --> 00:40:56 to get hurt before we sober up and sort of get the country back on track and
00:40:56 --> 00:40:58 sort of get us back on the rails.
00:40:59 --> 00:41:04 I hope it doesn't take a civil war. And I don't say that willy-nilly and I'll just throw it out there.
00:41:05 --> 00:41:09 And I, you know, our divides are not so clean geographically.
00:41:09 --> 00:41:14 So I actually think We've been sort of in a cold cultural civil war, right?
00:41:14 --> 00:41:19 If you want to call it that for a bit of time now.
00:41:20 --> 00:41:23 Know, it just, how many people have to get hurt before we get it right?
00:41:24 --> 00:41:29 You know, and the, think about what it took with F with the onset of the industrial revolution.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:33 You know, we had to have kids dying, doing child labor.
00:41:34 --> 00:41:39 We had to have factories sort of go up in flames without any worker where people
00:41:39 --> 00:41:41 said, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute, this industrialization,
00:41:41 --> 00:41:46 look, we're all for it, but can we put some standards in? Can we protect people? Right.
00:41:46 --> 00:41:51 It always comes down to Erik, how many people have to get hurt before we think,
00:41:51 --> 00:41:53 whoa, whoa, whoa, let's, let's, let's.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:59 And, and that's, it's a sad truth about the human condition is that sometimes
00:41:59 --> 00:42:04 it, Mitch McConnell has this expression, you know, it shouldn't take a second
00:42:04 --> 00:42:07 kick in the head by a mule to learn a lesson.
00:42:07 --> 00:42:11 Well, I think we Americans sometimes need the second kick in the head by the mule.
00:42:12 --> 00:42:15 Yeah. Sometimes we just, we got to get kicked in the head and in the butt too.
00:42:16 --> 00:42:20 You know, it just. But we'll get there. I just, I can't, I'll give you another,
00:42:20 --> 00:42:23 I'll give you both dark, I'll give you some dark optimism. Okay.
00:42:24 --> 00:42:28 I know we're going to survive climate change as a species. We will.
00:42:29 --> 00:42:34 The question is, if in a hundred years there's six billion people on this planet
00:42:34 --> 00:42:37 instead of nine, did we survive climate change?
00:42:38 --> 00:42:44 6 billion of us did. You see where I'm going, right? Like there's going to be collateral damage.
00:42:44 --> 00:42:48 How much, when do we say enough is enough, right?
00:42:49 --> 00:42:53 Every era in this country's history has been defined by violence and death before
00:42:53 --> 00:42:54 we've done the right thing.
00:42:55 --> 00:42:59 Civil rights movement, women's suffrage movement, industrial revolution,
00:42:59 --> 00:43:02 labor rights movement, obviously the civil war.
00:43:04 --> 00:43:08 You know, it's not done in a legislature.
00:43:10 --> 00:43:15 Yeah. All right. Well, Chuck, I enjoyed this.
00:43:15 --> 00:43:18 And this was well worth the wait.
00:43:18 --> 00:43:22 Thank you. Thank you for asking. I appreciated the platform.
00:43:22 --> 00:43:24 Yes. And the thoughtful conversation.
00:43:24 --> 00:43:27 Yes. Are you going to always, do you miss running, do you miss being in office?
00:43:29 --> 00:43:35 Some days. Some days, you know, you can't. I wish I had the guts to run.
00:43:35 --> 00:43:42 Well, sometimes it's not really guts. I think your passion kind of leads you
00:43:42 --> 00:43:45 to take that step forward.
00:43:45 --> 00:43:49 I've never looked at anything I did being courageous. I just looked at it as
00:43:49 --> 00:43:53 like, this is the right time to take that step.
00:43:54 --> 00:44:00 And, you know, I've had more missteps, you know, but once you win one thing,
00:44:00 --> 00:44:05 then it's like, that's the legacy. That's now, now in this era that gets you
00:44:05 --> 00:44:07 a page on Wikipedia, you know what I'm saying?
00:44:08 --> 00:44:11 But it's, you know, I've never looked at it as being courageous.
00:44:11 --> 00:44:14 I just look at it as like, this is something I've wanted to,
00:44:14 --> 00:44:16 something I wanted to do.
00:44:16 --> 00:44:20 And I just decided this was the moment to take that chance.
00:44:20 --> 00:44:26 And I was very fortunate at least a couple of times to be in an elected position, right?
00:44:27 --> 00:44:30 Think everybody should be a public servant for, for two years, some doing something.
00:44:31 --> 00:44:34 It may not always have to be elected, but service to your community,
00:44:35 --> 00:44:38 service to your, to your, to your government.
00:44:38 --> 00:44:42 You know, if you believe in it, you know, that's how you, it,
00:44:42 --> 00:44:46 I think, I wish we had mandatory national service in this country.
00:44:47 --> 00:44:55 I think it would, and it would be an opportunity for us to get to know each
00:44:55 --> 00:44:57 other in different ways.
00:44:57 --> 00:45:00 The military works pretty well that way, but I don't want us all to have to
00:45:00 --> 00:45:04 become a member of the military for us to see that we all bleed the same color of blood.
00:45:05 --> 00:45:09 Right. And I just think about the Peace Corps. I remember that was one of my
00:45:09 --> 00:45:12 biggest battles in the legislature.
00:45:12 --> 00:45:16 Well, I say one of my biggest. It was it was a pet project of mine was trying
00:45:16 --> 00:45:22 to get people's service in the Peace Corps to count toward their state retirement.
00:45:23 --> 00:45:28 And just the pushback I got was crazy. I said, do you understand what that generation
00:45:28 --> 00:45:32 of people did, you know, to bring you peace in your lifetime?
00:45:32 --> 00:45:36 They literally were out trying to make the world a better place,
00:45:36 --> 00:45:41 which is to be a higher service than going to boot camp and,
00:45:41 --> 00:45:47 you know, and serving, serving your country in the military for a few years.
00:45:47 --> 00:45:49 I mean, they served, they served our nation and the planet.
00:45:50 --> 00:45:54 Absolutely. But I could get into war stories long.
00:45:54 --> 00:45:58 Look, man, how can people get in touch with you? How can people tune into your
00:45:58 --> 00:46:00 podcast, all that stuff?
00:46:00 --> 00:46:05 Well, I have the Chuck Toddcast, thechucktodcast.com.
00:46:05 --> 00:46:10 You can wear all the different things. I've got sort of multiple podcasts that I do.
00:46:10 --> 00:46:14 I have a regular three times a week with the Chuck Toddcast on YouTube,
00:46:14 --> 00:46:19 Spotify, Apple, both in audio and video form. I have a sports history podcast
00:46:19 --> 00:46:23 that I do with the longtime sports journalist, J.A.
00:46:23 --> 00:46:26 Adande. He and I, we just started. It's called Dynastic.
00:46:26 --> 00:46:31 Every month we do a deep dive on an iconic franchise. We started with the Dodgers last month.
00:46:32 --> 00:46:37 And I do something with a new independent startup news organization called Newsphere,
00:46:37 --> 00:46:40 N-O-O-S-E, N-O-O-Sphere.
00:46:40 --> 00:46:44 All independent, everybody, you know, we sort of, it's basically an alternative
00:46:44 --> 00:46:46 to Substack. Instead of everybody eating
00:46:46 --> 00:46:50 what they kill, it's all shared subscription. I'm an investor in that.
00:46:50 --> 00:46:56 I do a Sunday night talk show, you know, just a random day of the week we picked Sunday, right?
00:46:57 --> 00:47:01 But, and in fact, I just interviewed by the time this airs, David Miliband,
00:47:02 --> 00:47:03 who runs the International Rescue Committee.
00:47:05 --> 00:47:10 And just how heartbreaking it is, the amount of countries not wanting to help
00:47:10 --> 00:47:12 refugees around. We have more refugees than ever around the world.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:18 I think there's some sort of crisis on every continent right now in some form
00:47:18 --> 00:47:20 or another, whether displacement or whatever.
00:47:20 --> 00:47:23 And we just talked about the Peace Corps.
00:47:24 --> 00:47:27 Know the united states gutting usa id
00:47:27 --> 00:47:31 when the u.s doesn't do humanitarian doesn't
00:47:31 --> 00:47:36 lead on humanitarian causes no one does yeah yeah and it's a it's a real vacuum
00:47:36 --> 00:47:41 so so newsphere all the your favorite independent places youtube all that stuff
00:47:41 --> 00:47:46 for the check podcast and same places to go find dynastic so i'm let's just
00:47:46 --> 00:47:50 say i'm personally having a great time in the media, in this independent media space.
00:47:51 --> 00:47:55 Let's hope, let's hope the world, let's hope we can get a better world to cover.
00:47:55 --> 00:47:58 Yes, yeah, yeah, that's the goal.
00:47:58 --> 00:48:01 All right, well, Chuck, again, thank you.
00:48:01 --> 00:48:05 My rule is once you've been on, you have an open invitation to come back.
00:48:06 --> 00:48:09 So, you know, if there's something pressing that you say, look,
00:48:10 --> 00:48:13 I need to talk about this and I want to kind of bounce it off,
00:48:13 --> 00:48:16 Erik, feel free to come on, man. We'll make that happen.
00:48:16 --> 00:48:19 I guess I need to ask, Ole Miss or Mississippi State?
00:48:20 --> 00:48:25 Well, I went to Jackson state, so I guess, I don't know.
00:48:25 --> 00:48:31 You know, I like, I was, I like Mississippi state football. I like Mississippi state basketball.
00:48:32 --> 00:48:38 I mean, uh, baseball, but Ole Miss basketball was always kind of thing.
00:48:38 --> 00:48:44 It's, it's kind of cool to ring a cowbell and to be up there at state,
00:48:44 --> 00:48:47 but it's, it's also an experience to walk through that grove.
00:48:47 --> 00:48:50 So, you know, I kind of give them equal balance.
00:48:50 --> 00:48:53 But to me, Jackson State is better than both of them.
00:48:53 --> 00:48:56 So, you know, Walter Payton went to my school.
00:48:57 --> 00:48:59 So, you know, I was just going to say sweetness.
00:48:59 --> 00:49:01 Yeah, it's my favorite part. We're
00:49:01 --> 00:49:04 doing a deep dive on Dynastic on the Pittsburgh Steelers and sort of.
00:49:04 --> 00:49:08 And one of their secrets to their early success is they were one of the few
00:49:08 --> 00:49:14 NFL teams that spent that spent real money scouting HBCUs back in the 60s and
00:49:14 --> 00:49:18 70s. And, and essentially they, they found a whole bunch of hall of famers.
00:49:18 --> 00:49:23 Yeah. The Steelers, the Kansas city chiefs and AFL and the Dallas Cowboys.
00:49:23 --> 00:49:26 You could trace their success to the HBCUs.
00:49:27 --> 00:49:31 Fun fact before I let you go, fun fact, and you can dive into you want to.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:36 What do you, what color, when you look at Ole Miss's football uniform,
00:49:37 --> 00:49:39 what color do you consider the pants?
00:49:40 --> 00:49:46 The powder blue? Well, the powder blue is the jersey, but the pants.
00:49:48 --> 00:49:51 Hmm. Did they just wear white pants with stripes?
00:49:51 --> 00:49:57 No, they wear, they look silver, but. It's gray, right? It's actually gray.
00:49:58 --> 00:50:02 And is it gray for what we think it is? Yes. The blue and the gray?
00:50:02 --> 00:50:08 Yeah. Well, it's a tribute to the students that, there was a division of students
00:50:08 --> 00:50:13 at Ole Miss that fought for the Confederacy, all the males too, and they all died.
00:50:14 --> 00:50:21 And so the uniform, the pants will always be university gray because that was
00:50:21 --> 00:50:25 the name of the unit that died in the Civil War.
00:50:25 --> 00:50:30 So I just threw that out there since you like sports history and all that. Interesting.
00:50:30 --> 00:50:32 There's an uncomfortable fact.
00:50:35 --> 00:50:38 Chuck, I will let you go, man. Good luck on the recruiting trail,
00:50:38 --> 00:50:41 Pete Golding. on those things, right? Exactly.
00:50:42 --> 00:50:45 Well, thank you so much, man. I appreciate it. You got it. All right.
00:51:06 --> 00:51:13 All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my guest, Ed Fields.
00:51:13 --> 00:51:18 Known as a level-headed diplomat, creative risk-taker, and inspirational leader,
00:51:18 --> 00:51:24 Ed Fields has a breadth of leadership experience as an executive in both for-profit
00:51:24 --> 00:51:26 and not-for-profit organizations.
00:51:27 --> 00:51:33 Ed served as campaign manager for Birmingham Mayor-elect Randall Woodfin's historic
00:51:33 --> 00:51:34 run to become Mayor of Birmingham.
00:51:35 --> 00:51:40 Currently serves as senior advisor and chief strategist for the City of Birmingham Mayor's office.
00:51:41 --> 00:51:47 Previously, Ed co-founded and led Relax. It's handled a nationally recognized
00:51:47 --> 00:51:52 award-winning association and event management company for eight years before selling the company.
00:51:52 --> 00:51:57 He has also served as an executive and strategic partner in organizations such
00:51:57 --> 00:52:02 as the Birmingham Regional Chamber of Commerce and Alabama Media Group.
00:52:02 --> 00:52:06 A transplant from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Ed received his undergraduate degree
00:52:06 --> 00:52:10 in business administration from Alabama State University.
00:52:10 --> 00:52:15 And earned his master's of business administration from the University of Alabama's
00:52:15 --> 00:52:17 prestigious Manderson School of Business.
00:52:17 --> 00:52:21 He has also received his Institute of Management designation,
00:52:22 --> 00:52:25 a nonprofit management certification from the U.S.
00:52:25 --> 00:52:30 Chamber of Commerce. Ed currently serves as chairman of the University of Alabama
00:52:30 --> 00:52:34 Coverhouse School of Business African-American Alumni Network.
00:52:35 --> 00:52:41 Ed is an alum of Leadership Alabama, the Bloomberg Harvey City Leadership Initiative,
00:52:41 --> 00:52:44 as well as Harvard's Young American Leadership Program.
00:52:44 --> 00:52:49 Ed is the recipient of the Innovation and Diversity Award from the Birmingham
00:52:49 --> 00:52:53 Business Alliance, the Encouraging Diversity Award from Cox Radio,
00:52:54 --> 00:53:00 and Minority Business Advocate of the Year from the City of Birmingham and Alabama
00:53:00 --> 00:53:03 State University's Top 50 Under 50.
00:53:04 --> 00:53:09 Ed recently served as executive producer for As Goes the South,
00:53:09 --> 00:53:14 a film about Birmingham highlighting a new generation of black and brown leaders,
00:53:14 --> 00:53:15 in Birmingham, Alabama.
00:53:16 --> 00:53:19 And so we're going to talk a little bit about that film as well.
00:53:21 --> 00:53:28 So without any further ado, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast.
00:53:40 --> 00:53:44 All right, Ed Fields. How you doing, my brother? You doing good?
00:53:45 --> 00:53:49 I'm great. I'm great. Honored to be here, brother. Thank you for the invitation.
00:53:49 --> 00:53:53 Well, I'm thankful that you accepted it. I understand I'm supposed to say happy
00:53:53 --> 00:53:55 National Poetry Month to you.
00:53:56 --> 00:54:02 That's something that you take very seriously. So I know that you normally do
00:54:02 --> 00:54:06 that like every year, kind of write some poems and stuff.
00:54:06 --> 00:54:11 Although it seemed like I lost track in 2022. Have you kind of stopped that
00:54:11 --> 00:54:14 or are you just, I'm just not in the right place?
00:54:14 --> 00:54:19 I do love poetry. And to be honest with you, I want to continue to hold myself
00:54:19 --> 00:54:22 accountable to doing things that I love to do, like write.
00:54:23 --> 00:54:28 And so I'm not sure what happened in 2022. I know I had a big year in 23 personally,
00:54:28 --> 00:54:29 dealing with some family challenges.
00:54:30 --> 00:54:33 And ironically enough, I wrote more then than I did the previous year,
00:54:33 --> 00:54:36 which is probably great. I was probably just happy, brother,
00:54:36 --> 00:54:38 living life. Yeah, I got you.
00:54:38 --> 00:54:44 All right. Before I do my normal icebreaker, I do have a question for you.
00:54:44 --> 00:54:47 Why do you hate text messages? Oh, man.
00:54:49 --> 00:54:51 You want to start with that, huh? Yeah.
00:54:52 --> 00:54:58 And I think text messages are, let me start here by saying that they're a central
00:54:58 --> 00:55:01 part of the communication, the way we communicate today.
00:55:02 --> 00:55:07 And they can be very, very useful. I think that people are overusing the instrument,
00:55:07 --> 00:55:11 the tool, the medium in ways that it was not intended to.
00:55:12 --> 00:55:17 And I think they're incredibly disruptive. What I dislike most about text is
00:55:17 --> 00:55:23 the expectation of a response, the immediacy of a response. that's the primary thing I don't like.
00:55:23 --> 00:55:26 So I sent you a message, right?
00:55:26 --> 00:55:30 Six hours prior on something that's not essential. And so what it is,
00:55:30 --> 00:55:34 is a hack to basically get to the front of the line of a person's attention and workflow.
00:55:35 --> 00:55:40 And if I prioritize my workflow, my goals, my efforts, and I'm constantly short
00:55:40 --> 00:55:45 circuiting that or hacking it by allowing people in front of the line,
00:55:45 --> 00:55:49 that are really, really impacting productivity and goals.
00:55:49 --> 00:55:55 So that's thing one. The other thing I really don't like about them is how invasive
00:55:55 --> 00:56:01 they are just because they show up and we always have our phones and so many
00:56:01 --> 00:56:03 people allow it to take prominence.
00:56:03 --> 00:56:08 And so I think they're invasive. I think they shift expectations and they are incredibly...
00:56:10 --> 00:56:14 For workflow. Personally, the mayor, so I work with Mayor Randall Woodford every day.
00:56:14 --> 00:56:19 He is a power texter. That brother is literally running the city through phone
00:56:19 --> 00:56:22 and text. He's a master at that.
00:56:23 --> 00:56:28 But if I have to scroll down three screens to be able to go and click on a text
00:56:28 --> 00:56:31 and then go up and down in the text to find the actionable item,
00:56:32 --> 00:56:33 I personally am struggling.
00:56:34 --> 00:56:37 So it's just really hard to manage all of that.
00:56:37 --> 00:56:40 So I could go on and on about text messages i see you
00:56:40 --> 00:56:43 you seem to have a well structured defense
00:56:43 --> 00:56:46 into your uh disdain for uh
00:56:46 --> 00:56:49 text messages i thought you're gonna say something like my
00:56:49 --> 00:56:52 dad it's like i want to hear your voice i don't want to read no text
00:56:52 --> 00:56:54 messages i want to talk to my son i thought you were gonna
00:56:54 --> 00:56:58 go like that i'm the one i'm the one who's telling folks to put the phone down
00:56:58 --> 00:57:04 sometimes well the only the only negative thing i can say about text messages
00:57:04 --> 00:57:10 is that you know when you're If you're in a relationship and you're trying to
00:57:10 --> 00:57:14 convey one thought and the other person reads it as something else,
00:57:14 --> 00:57:21 that could either get a whole bunch of crazy text messages or a phone call.
00:57:22 --> 00:57:27 But other than that, I've learned to adapt with the times, brother.
00:57:27 --> 00:57:33 And if you're going to write a lot of stuff, just send me an email, though.
00:57:33 --> 00:57:35 Don't put all that on my phone.
00:57:36 --> 00:57:40 But I understand. I had to get that out because I saw that when I was doing
00:57:40 --> 00:57:43 my research and I was like, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and ask him that question.
00:57:44 --> 00:57:45 I'd like to see what his response is.
00:57:46 --> 00:57:50 All right. So now it's time for my normal icebreakers. And what I want you to
00:57:50 --> 00:57:51 do is respond to this quote first.
00:57:52 --> 00:57:58 If a mission makes sense to me, I will find ways to achieve its goals ethically
00:57:58 --> 00:58:01 and with appropriate dashes of swagger.
00:58:03 --> 00:58:08 That's one of my lines. Yeah. That's one of my lines.
00:58:08 --> 00:58:13 That's actually, you know, in working on my profile, I think I have that on
00:58:13 --> 00:58:18 my LinkedIn profile, but in working on my own sort of personal mission and approach
00:58:18 --> 00:58:21 to life, I've discovered a few things about myself.
00:58:21 --> 00:58:25 And I've learned that I'm, for the most part, a jack of all trades, a master of nothing.
00:58:26 --> 00:58:31 And so when I hear that quote, it reminds me that I'm agnostic.
00:58:31 --> 00:58:33 You know, I never saw myself getting into government.
00:58:33 --> 00:58:37 I got marketing background. I'm into poetry. It doesn't really matter what the
00:58:37 --> 00:58:40 thing is. The thing is, can I love it?
00:58:41 --> 00:58:46 And I love so many things, Eric. And so if I can love it and I can bring my whole self to it, i.e.
00:58:46 --> 00:58:52 The dash of swag, then I can really achieve really substantial things.
00:58:52 --> 00:58:56 And so that's sort of a grounding statement for me. You got you.
00:58:56 --> 00:58:59 All right. So the next icebreaker I do is called 20 questions.
00:58:59 --> 00:59:03 So I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.
00:59:04 --> 00:59:08 7, of course. Okay. Number 7.
00:59:09 --> 00:59:13 What do you consider the best way to stay informed about politics,
00:59:13 --> 00:59:15 current events, health, etc.?
00:59:16 --> 00:59:20 Do I consider the best way to stay informed? Well,
00:59:21 --> 00:59:31 the answer today is to identify a diverse set of sources and bookmark them, tag them,
00:59:31 --> 00:59:37 drag them up into your algorithm, and to have a constant check-in,
00:59:37 --> 00:59:43 meaning that you have periodic moments where you check into what those sources are saying.
00:59:44 --> 00:59:48 The other thing that I would suggest and that I've been experimenting with through
00:59:48 --> 00:59:50 my, I'm a Google guy through and through.
00:59:50 --> 00:59:56 So I use Gemini and within that AI platform, you can create what they call gems.
00:59:56 --> 01:00:01 So you can literally build your own publication from all manner of sources into
01:00:01 --> 01:00:06 one dashboard sort of look that's different. And it's AI driven.
01:00:06 --> 01:00:10 So it changes every day a little bit. So I think that's the best way to get
01:00:10 --> 01:00:14 information is to go ahead and curate it yourself since we don't have reliable
01:00:14 --> 01:00:21 national media that can be trusted and that can deliver the sort of dynamic
01:00:21 --> 01:00:23 information we need these days.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:27 They seem to be analog in a world that is changing rapidly.
01:00:27 --> 01:00:32 So long answer, but I have lots of thoughts about our media environment and
01:00:32 --> 01:00:40 what it means for our publics and for the civic education and infrastructure of our nation. Yeah.
01:00:41 --> 01:00:48 So you kind of answered this one a little bit, but did you ever think as a young
01:00:48 --> 01:00:52 man growing up in Milwaukee that you would be in politics, let alone be in a
01:00:52 --> 01:00:53 position of power and government.
01:00:55 --> 01:01:03 No, no. It was foreign to me. All this is kind of esoteric, mumbo jumbo, people wearing suits.
01:01:03 --> 01:01:06 You know, I grew up in a blue collar family, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
01:01:07 --> 01:01:11 Dad was a lineman for most of my childhood. Mine was a stay at home a few years
01:01:11 --> 01:01:15 when middle class families, lower middle class families could afford to do that.
01:01:16 --> 01:01:20 And no, man, everybody was blue collar around me. So honestly,
01:01:20 --> 01:01:23 there was a healthy bit of resentment. It wasn't always expressed,
01:01:23 --> 01:01:27 but I could tell my dad was a union person and, you know, you could tell how
01:01:27 --> 01:01:29 he felt about the suits at the power company.
01:01:30 --> 01:01:33 Now I'm with the suits at the power company up at CBC.
01:01:34 --> 01:01:39 Right. So I've kind of gone through this identity shift in understanding that
01:01:39 --> 01:01:41 you can end up in a lot of places you didn't plan to.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:45 So no, government was certainly not one of them.
01:01:45 --> 01:01:47 I always thought I'd be an entrepreneur and I did become an entrepreneur,
01:01:47 --> 01:01:51 but I didn't have any relationships with folks.
01:01:51 --> 01:01:56 And I grew up in an era where we said F the police and that was attached to government.
01:01:56 --> 01:02:02 And that's what's been in my body literally until I walked into City Hall November
01:02:02 --> 01:02:08 28th, 2017, and started to have relationships with people that I either didn't
01:02:08 --> 01:02:11 understand or didn't like on principle.
01:02:11 --> 01:02:14 Okay. Well, you're now in your second term.
01:02:15 --> 01:02:20 Third. Oh, third term. I'm sorry. I thought it was third term, but I don't know why.
01:02:21 --> 01:02:25 I got confused about the elections. So now you're in your third term with Mayor
01:02:25 --> 01:02:27 Woodfin. How's that going?
01:02:28 --> 01:02:33 Going great. He won his re-elect about six months ago with 75% of the vote.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:36 So we have people with us and we are with people.
01:02:36 --> 01:02:39 We have, you know, he was 36 when he was elected.
01:02:39 --> 01:02:42 I was 42. I just turned 51.
01:02:42 --> 01:02:47 And so we have the benefit of being young veterans in this public space,
01:02:47 --> 01:02:49 which is really important, I think,
01:02:49 --> 01:02:52 for the community, but specifically in terms of how things are going.
01:02:52 --> 01:02:58 And we are finally starting to see the impacts of some of the early decisions we made.
01:02:59 --> 01:03:04 I think that we have all started to live life really more dynamically,
01:03:04 --> 01:03:09 which makes us more attuned to what people are going through,
01:03:09 --> 01:03:13 whether it's some of our leadership team having special needs kids or having
01:03:13 --> 01:03:16 children at all and moving from house to house.
01:03:16 --> 01:03:21 And I think the lived experience of people who are in positions of so-called
01:03:21 --> 01:03:26 power is really, really important, or at least their proximity to people so
01:03:26 --> 01:03:29 that they can feel it, not just think it,
01:03:29 --> 01:03:32 not just want to do a thing, but you got to feel it.
01:03:32 --> 01:03:38 And I think that we have had enough time to feel at a personal level and professionally
01:03:38 --> 01:03:43 what it's like to move through the city, to see the impacts of our decisions,
01:03:43 --> 01:03:47 maybe even forgive ourselves for some of the things we didn't do as well initially,
01:03:47 --> 01:03:50 knowing that we have this unexpected,
01:03:50 --> 01:03:51 frankly, third term.
01:03:52 --> 01:03:54 Unexpected to me. We didn't know he was going to do a third term.
01:03:55 --> 01:03:59 And we're fortunate that he did. But the clock is ticking from my perspective,
01:03:59 --> 01:04:03 irrespective of what he chooses to do next. And we don't know if he would ever run again.
01:04:03 --> 01:04:08 But I've got to run. I've got to act. And I need to serve him in the city as if he's not.
01:04:08 --> 01:04:13 And so what does that look like to count down to November 27, 2029?
01:04:15 --> 01:04:23 Yeah. So in that process, what does it take to be an effective chief strategist and senior advisor?
01:04:24 --> 01:04:27 Right. Fancy title. What does it really mean? So generally speaking,
01:04:28 --> 01:04:32 a chief strategist, which is one of the fastest growing titles or sea level
01:04:32 --> 01:04:37 roles in the nation, is really designed to do a couple of things.
01:04:37 --> 01:04:40 But if I had to boil it down to one thing, it is this.
01:04:40 --> 01:04:47 It is giving your CEO the capacity to drive their agenda.
01:04:47 --> 01:04:51 You know this as a former elected official, as an entrepreneur.
01:04:52 --> 01:04:56 There's a lot of things you want to do, but so much of our time is taken up
01:04:56 --> 01:05:00 into things we just have to do. And the CEO's role is one of those.
01:05:00 --> 01:05:05 You're running an enterprise that has compliance and a lot of other things baked into it.
01:05:05 --> 01:05:10 That small margin of time and energy and effort you want to put into the things
01:05:10 --> 01:05:15 that distinguish your tenure as a CEO require a partner.
01:05:15 --> 01:05:20 That partner is somebody who has a unique set of skills or a unique set of information
01:05:20 --> 01:05:27 or a unique set of resources that they can bring to bear to shift an organization,
01:05:27 --> 01:05:31 to help bend the organization to the will of the CEO that's in place.
01:05:32 --> 01:05:36 The other part of that, the distinctive part of that is what I would say,
01:05:36 --> 01:05:42 the blue ocean planning, the strategic thinking about the future state of the organization.
01:05:42 --> 01:05:48 What does it look like if the CEO has been successful and then working backwards
01:05:48 --> 01:05:51 from there to partner with the operating leaders?
01:05:51 --> 01:05:56 Sometimes the role is intended to create tension in the organization because
01:05:56 --> 01:05:59 we're trying to get from the current state to a different state.
01:05:59 --> 01:06:04 It's either new products, new policies, maybe even whole new teams or divisions.
01:06:05 --> 01:06:10 Somebody has to help architect that alongside the CEO so that the CEO can take
01:06:10 --> 01:06:13 that and put that into the organization.
01:06:13 --> 01:06:17 So if you've seen one chief strategist, you've seen one chief strategist because
01:06:17 --> 01:06:22 they really are going to be unique to whoever they are, whoever that CEO is.
01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 So that's how I would describe the role broadly, and then specifically for me,
01:06:27 --> 01:06:31 what it means for Wuffin, because I don't have a political background here.
01:06:31 --> 01:06:37 So I came to this role as a communicator, as a civic leader, primarily.
01:06:37 --> 01:06:40 I mean, civic leadership is my bread and butter. That is my career.
01:06:40 --> 01:06:41 That is my deepest passion.
01:06:42 --> 01:06:47 Also, as a former entrepreneur and a really, really great producer as it relates
01:06:47 --> 01:06:50 to events and really any engagement, I'm a producer at heart.
01:06:50 --> 01:06:55 Now moving to executive production in a variety of ways. So all that said.
01:06:56 --> 01:07:01 My role with him has really been to help partner around our P3s,
01:07:01 --> 01:07:02 public-private partnerships.
01:07:02 --> 01:07:07 So when the mayor goes out and speaks to Brookings or speaks to the African-American
01:07:07 --> 01:07:12 Mayor's Association or goes to speak to some entity that has a resource attached
01:07:12 --> 01:07:16 to them, and they really want to get engaged with Birmingham because they're
01:07:16 --> 01:07:17 excited about the prospects,
01:07:17 --> 01:07:19 what does it mean to be a living laboratory,
01:07:19 --> 01:07:22 an ethical, civic laboratory for the nation?
01:07:22 --> 01:07:30 And my job is to run alongside him, sometimes ahead of him, sometimes right behind him.
01:07:30 --> 01:07:34 But I'm right there with him to help design and architect what those relationships can look like.
01:07:35 --> 01:07:41 Because we see a lot of really, really high profile, charismatic leaders do well on stage.
01:07:42 --> 01:07:46 When they step off, they got to have a team that can execute. I'm a part of that team.
01:07:47 --> 01:07:52 Rarely doing the actual execution. My job is to be able to navigate what I call Woodfin world.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:58 You know, he's got the administrative world in City Hall. He's got a great chief of staff and team.
01:07:58 --> 01:08:03 He also has a political world with some great political strategists and people
01:08:03 --> 01:08:05 who do OPPO and all kinds of stuff.
01:08:05 --> 01:08:10 My job is to have deep relationships there. And then he's got the external sort
01:08:10 --> 01:08:14 of national relationships as well between some of the entities I named and a
01:08:14 --> 01:08:20 bunch of others. My job is to have a whole look at the map for him and to help navigate that.
01:08:20 --> 01:08:24 And he's so dynamic. It takes a lot of energy to keep up with him,
01:08:24 --> 01:08:28 frankly. But that's part of my role. And then separate from that is the strategic communication.
01:08:29 --> 01:08:32 So all the public communications roll up to me.
01:08:33 --> 01:08:36 I don't do hardly anything daily. I have a couple projects. For the most part,
01:08:36 --> 01:08:40 we have a director of communications, an office of public information,
01:08:40 --> 01:08:44 and about a dozen other public information officers across the cities, you know.
01:08:45 --> 01:08:50 Dozen departments. And my job is to have a strategic framework and to put resources
01:08:50 --> 01:08:54 in place to support them and then to partner externally with groups who want
01:08:54 --> 01:08:59 to come and do the world games or have some other major initiative that's going
01:08:59 --> 01:09:02 to impact the brand or the identity of the city.
01:09:02 --> 01:09:07 And so my job is to be the constant sort of thought partner and to smooth and
01:09:07 --> 01:09:11 to find consistency across the many things that are happening.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:14 So I'm mostly in the river as things are coming in it.
01:09:14 --> 01:09:18 Every once in a while, I get to direct something, but I'd be lying if I said
01:09:18 --> 01:09:21 I'm sitting up here with the Geppetto string and making everything happen.
01:09:22 --> 01:09:24 Sometimes, brother, I'm just holding on for dear life.
01:09:25 --> 01:09:30 Well, that's most of us. You mentioned it about politics, you know,
01:09:30 --> 01:09:34 referring to me, you know, I was fortunate enough to be a young one too.
01:09:34 --> 01:09:41 And so you, you know, you have to have energy and you have to have a focus to do what you got to do.
01:09:41 --> 01:09:46 So I understand it's not easy, but you seem to be navigating it pretty well.
01:09:46 --> 01:09:54 So you said that you had a goal to demystify public leadership.
01:09:54 --> 01:10:00 And the mayor has said that he compares municipal government to a participatory
01:10:00 --> 01:10:02 sport or is a participatory sport.
01:10:03 --> 01:10:08 How have you, do you feel that it's still an ongoing process to do that in Birmingham,
01:10:08 --> 01:10:11 or have you turned a corner?
01:10:11 --> 01:10:15 Oh, it's an ongoing process. It always has been and always will be.
01:10:15 --> 01:10:17 This is human beings, right? And,
01:10:19 --> 01:10:24 The real, I guess what you hear from him and from me is sort of a philosophy or theory of the case.
01:10:24 --> 01:10:29 Like, what does it mean? What is my role? What is their role? Whoever they are.
01:10:29 --> 01:10:32 And so, yes, have we turned a corner?
01:10:33 --> 01:10:37 That's not the frame I will put this in. I think it is, are we getting better
01:10:37 --> 01:10:39 in our relationship, right? This is more like that.
01:10:40 --> 01:10:44 I had a conversation yesterday with some folks who were sort of talking about
01:10:44 --> 01:10:48 who's right and who's wrong and sort of standing on business and all of that.
01:10:49 --> 01:10:52 I said, man, look, if you talk to somebody who's been married 50 years,
01:10:53 --> 01:10:54 you'll never hear them talk about that.
01:10:55 --> 01:10:58 You'll never hear them talk like that because sometimes you're going to take
01:10:58 --> 01:11:01 a loss and it's for the sake of the relationship.
01:11:01 --> 01:11:06 And we know that right now we had a national crisis in our relationship as a
01:11:06 --> 01:11:10 country in terms of the social contract between one another at every level.
01:11:11 --> 01:11:15 People hollering at each other at school board meetings, people fist fighting
01:11:15 --> 01:11:18 in state legislatures, which has probably always been the case.
01:11:18 --> 01:11:19 They used to do duels back in the day.
01:11:20 --> 01:11:23 But the point is, there's plenty of evidence that the social contract between
01:11:23 --> 01:11:27 people in our society has broken down substantially.
01:11:27 --> 01:11:33 And our job in the city of Birmingham is to reclaim that legacy that so many
01:11:33 --> 01:11:36 people found in black and white footage and to make sure that people see it in full color.
01:11:36 --> 01:11:41 That there is a generation of people who know what it's like to link arms with
01:11:41 --> 01:11:45 other people and to figure things out together civilly.
01:11:45 --> 01:11:51 And to do that in a way that's also pretty dope, really dynamic, fun, innovative.
01:11:51 --> 01:11:54 Those are the things we hold to be true. And so when the mayor says...
01:11:56 --> 01:12:01 Or democracy is a participatory sport. He's just saying that there's no one
01:12:01 --> 01:12:03 entity that's going to be able to play this game alone.
01:12:04 --> 01:12:08 One of my favorite books that I would recommend for your listeners is by Simon
01:12:08 --> 01:12:13 Sinek, who's pretty well known on social media, but he's also an author.
01:12:13 --> 01:12:15 He wrote a book called The Infinite Game.
01:12:16 --> 01:12:19 And I love how he frames winning and losing.
01:12:19 --> 01:12:24 And nobody can say that they're winning in life or winning in their marriage.
01:12:24 --> 01:12:28 You can have a moment where you feel like you're doing really well but there's
01:12:28 --> 01:12:35 no definition of the end game being win or loss it's how you're doing and so
01:12:35 --> 01:12:38 you score differently and I think that,
01:12:39 --> 01:12:45 Part of the dissonance that we're seeing in our politics is because we're keeping score the wrong way.
01:12:45 --> 01:12:50 And we're not doing the math that says that the more we do what we're doing
01:12:50 --> 01:12:52 right now, the more we all lose.
01:12:53 --> 01:12:57 Because the math has changed in some regards. It's game theory.
01:12:57 --> 01:13:00 It's a fancy term. But basically, the if and thens have changed.
01:13:00 --> 01:13:01 The impacts of them have changed.
01:13:01 --> 01:13:06 And I wish we would get more serious about the collapse of the middle class.
01:13:06 --> 01:13:10 Because so much of this is tied to the economics of the country and the fact
01:13:10 --> 01:13:16 that the majority of everyday folk, like how I grew up, we were able to go to
01:13:16 --> 01:13:18 Red Lobster once a month. It was a working-class family, man.
01:13:19 --> 01:13:21 With no pension, no trust funds.
01:13:21 --> 01:13:25 We had what we had. But we were able to do a couple of basic things because
01:13:25 --> 01:13:30 you made a fair ways as a lineman who graduated from high school and raised
01:13:30 --> 01:13:35 a family and have a house and have a little equity in your home as long as you save a little money.
01:13:36 --> 01:13:41 I mean, we can't do that now. We have to go to work, have a decent salary,
01:13:41 --> 01:13:43 and then go drive Uber on the side.
01:13:44 --> 01:13:49 And then you got a child care crisis and health care crisis and a bunch of other things happening.
01:13:49 --> 01:13:55 So we have to repurpose the commons, as some of our more academic folks say,
01:13:55 --> 01:13:59 but we have to repurpose our public institutions to serve people better.
01:13:59 --> 01:14:02 So if you look at our innovations, our policy innovations like the Birmingham
01:14:02 --> 01:14:04 Promise and a bunch of others in Birmingham,
01:14:05 --> 01:14:09 you'll find that we're taking tax dollars, we're putting some policy around
01:14:09 --> 01:14:16 that, and we're converting resources so that we can build wealth in communities
01:14:16 --> 01:14:17 that perhaps have not had it.
01:14:18 --> 01:14:22 We're just to take away the impediment so that people can compete better or more.
01:14:23 --> 01:14:27 So that's a long way of saying we haven't turned a corner.
01:14:27 --> 01:14:30 We are simply getting better in how we do what we do.
01:14:31 --> 01:14:36 All right. All right. So now let's get to this documentary that you were one
01:14:36 --> 01:14:41 of the executive producers, one of the other executive producers I've known
01:14:41 --> 01:14:44 from being in Jackson and Noel Didler.
01:14:44 --> 01:14:50 And, you know, so I was I was glad that there's that Jackson connection. Always.
01:14:51 --> 01:14:56 There's always going to be a Mississippi connection. Somewhere. Yes, sir.
01:14:58 --> 01:15:02 That's right. So what was your motivation for doing As Goes to South?
01:15:02 --> 01:15:06 Well, first of all, give an honor and just just recognition to Noel.
01:15:07 --> 01:15:12 Noel is longtime resident of Jackson, Mississippi, taught at Jackson State.
01:15:12 --> 01:15:16 Is a sort of a liberation movement person. She's an organizer,
01:15:16 --> 01:15:23 a policy advocate, and a native of Guntar, India, who honors people wherever
01:15:23 --> 01:15:26 she is. Her job is always a center of people.
01:15:26 --> 01:15:31 So I've learned so much about her from human-centered design to dignity and
01:15:31 --> 01:15:33 how we talk about it and think about it and portray it.
01:15:33 --> 01:15:37 So just a shout out to my partner on that and one of my dearest friends now.
01:15:38 --> 01:15:42 So I met her when she was sort of an advisor and working more closely with Mayor
01:15:42 --> 01:15:45 Lumumba and I was with Mayor Woodfin.
01:15:46 --> 01:15:52 We wrote a policy document in 2019, just as all those presidential candidates
01:15:52 --> 01:15:55 were coming around trying to get endorsements from our young,
01:15:55 --> 01:15:58 charismatic Black mayors in urban South.
01:15:58 --> 01:16:03 And so we basically asked, what is the Black agenda and what's the Southern agenda?
01:16:03 --> 01:16:07 And we didn't do that through any formal political organization.
01:16:07 --> 01:16:11 It was literally a couple of advisors who got a few of their mayors to co-sign
01:16:11 --> 01:16:13 on some letters on a letter.
01:16:14 --> 01:16:20 Also, which also included Mayor Cantrell in New Orleans and former Mayor Steve Benjamin.
01:16:21 --> 01:16:24 Of North and South, out of South Carolina. So all that said,
01:16:24 --> 01:16:26 we basically put this letter together.
01:16:26 --> 01:16:31 They started responding. Six out of the 12 Democratic candidates for president
01:16:31 --> 01:16:34 actually signed, actually responded.
01:16:34 --> 01:16:39 They, they answered our questionnaire. We held some conference calls and eventually
01:16:39 --> 01:16:45 we saw one of those respondents, Joe Biden, take serious some of our questions,
01:16:46 --> 01:16:49 and he ended up getting the endorsement of our mayor.
01:16:49 --> 01:16:52 And I think, no, Mayor of Moomba with another person.
01:16:53 --> 01:16:57 But anyway, we found some success in that. And so in talking with Noelle,
01:16:58 --> 01:17:05 it was actually her who made the recommendation that our next project together be a film.
01:17:05 --> 01:17:13 Because in her early time with Mayor of Moomba, she had worked with Dream Hampton,
01:17:13 --> 01:17:15 who y'all may know famously, who did the R.
01:17:15 --> 01:17:19 Kelly series and a dear friend of Jay-Z.
01:17:20 --> 01:17:28 She had connected the folks in Jackson with some rather famous performers to
01:17:28 --> 01:17:33 do a video, the remix of the Optimistic song that Brandy was on with Common
01:17:33 --> 01:17:34 and Kareem Riggins and all that.
01:17:35 --> 01:17:39 So anyway, they had a really good time with the team that shot that video.
01:17:40 --> 01:17:44 Noelle suggested that we engage them in a narrative change piece.
01:17:44 --> 01:17:48 Which sort of lined up with some other things that I was thinking about.
01:17:48 --> 01:17:51 So that's really how it happened. It happened through a relationship.
01:17:51 --> 01:17:56 It happened fairly organically, but it has always been centered around.
01:17:57 --> 01:18:02 Getting the nation to pay better attention to what is going on and what can
01:18:02 --> 01:18:09 happen if we think about the progressive South more dynamically and more contemporaneously, too.
01:18:10 --> 01:18:14 So a lot of this is also about this generation coming together and how do we
01:18:14 --> 01:18:18 portray it, not by hero worship for our charismatic elected officials,
01:18:18 --> 01:18:21 but really for the collectives that are around them.
01:18:21 --> 01:18:24 To your earlier point, there are a lot of people in the background doing some
01:18:24 --> 01:18:27 really important, incredible work, and they're not often seen.
01:18:28 --> 01:18:31 So this film was intended to do a few things.
01:18:31 --> 01:18:37 It was intended to portray a collective of young Black folks.
01:18:37 --> 01:18:40 This is a Black-centered film, although it is not exclusively Black.
01:18:40 --> 01:18:43 We're simply saying that we're the central characters and that there are a lot
01:18:43 --> 01:18:45 of other really cool people doing good work too.
01:18:45 --> 01:18:50 So we portray those characters as well as a bunch of other characters that are not Black.
01:18:51 --> 01:18:55 And what is the dialogue between them and around them?
01:18:56 --> 01:19:00 The other thing we really want to do, Eric, was to showcase the city in a way
01:19:00 --> 01:19:05 that wasn't just intellectual or academic or about policy. But what does it feel like?
01:19:06 --> 01:19:09 Too often, people come to Birmingham and they are just blown away.
01:19:09 --> 01:19:11 Oh my God, it's so beautiful here.
01:19:11 --> 01:19:15 Oh my God, it's kind of cool. I didn't know it had a cosmopolitan vibe.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:17 I didn't know it was modern.
01:19:17 --> 01:19:21 I didn't, it's like, do we have to put everybody on a plane to get them here
01:19:21 --> 01:19:24 for them to see and feel what we see and feel?
01:19:25 --> 01:19:29 And so that's one of the reasons we did the film the way we did it.
01:19:29 --> 01:19:36 So it's bright colors, very little black and white footage, and includes some
01:19:36 --> 01:19:42 faces, all shades of skin tones that people are frankly just surprised to see.
01:19:42 --> 01:19:45 It's been one of my biggest surprises in doing the film is seeing people be
01:19:45 --> 01:19:48 surprised about what they see.
01:19:49 --> 01:19:53 Terms of the immigrant community, in terms of just a mosaic of people that are
01:19:53 --> 01:19:57 here. I guess people still think it's just black and white.
01:19:57 --> 01:19:59 That's one of the reasons that we did the film.
01:20:00 --> 01:20:03 Yeah, because when I saw it, it was like.
01:20:05 --> 01:20:07 Guess the best thing to say was i felt it
01:20:07 --> 01:20:11 was a love letter to america from birmingham right
01:20:11 --> 01:20:14 it's like you know it's like we're
01:20:14 --> 01:20:20 still here and the last time you may have checked us out things were a little
01:20:20 --> 01:20:25 different but this is who we are now right and i thought that was that that
01:20:25 --> 01:20:33 was pretty cool yeah you know so why is birmingham because because the film's only 45 minutes long,
01:20:33 --> 01:20:36 so I want people to see it, so I can't get too deep into it.
01:20:37 --> 01:20:41 But why is Birmingham the epitome of the New South, in your opinion?
01:20:42 --> 01:20:47 Well, I have a little bit of bias because I'm sort of all baked up in it at this point.
01:20:47 --> 01:20:50 But that's really not the argument we're making.
01:20:51 --> 01:20:55 We are saying that Birmingham is an exemplar, right?
01:20:55 --> 01:20:58 And we're saying that, but we're not saying we are it. We're saying that there
01:20:58 --> 01:21:02 are other cities and other communities that have these elements as well,
01:21:02 --> 01:21:04 and they deserve to be seen and heard.
01:21:04 --> 01:21:09 And so I wanted to set that frame. This is not intended to be so Birmingham-centric.
01:21:10 --> 01:21:14 It ended up by default. So the background is, the title of the film is As Goes
01:21:14 --> 01:21:16 the South, and it's based on the W.E.B.
01:21:17 --> 01:21:22 DuBose quote, which is about, which is 100 years old, as goes the South,
01:21:23 --> 01:21:27 so goes the nation, effectively saying, However, the South moves,
01:21:28 --> 01:21:31 that is our litmus test for how the country will move.
01:21:31 --> 01:21:38 And so people should understand the broader frame that the worst policies in human,
01:21:38 --> 01:21:43 certainly in the Western Hemisphere, but the worst policies that were even replicated
01:21:43 --> 01:21:49 by Nazis and others were originated right here in America, specifically the South.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:56 And today, contemporaneously, some of the worst policies that you've seen executed
01:21:56 --> 01:21:58 by the current administration, federal administration,
01:21:59 --> 01:22:05 were first executed out of the South, whether it's the anti-DEI work in Florida
01:22:05 --> 01:22:11 or maternal health issues and what they're doing with women or limiting women's
01:22:11 --> 01:22:12 ability to choose in Georgia.
01:22:13 --> 01:22:19 So across the board, it's still the South, always has been, and the argument is it always will be.
01:22:19 --> 01:22:23 On the flip side, as goes the nation, so goes the South,
01:22:23 --> 01:22:27 on the degree of human resilience, of creativity,
01:22:28 --> 01:22:33 of even when you consider how people got to this country, particularly Black
01:22:33 --> 01:22:39 folks, but just the connection, legacy, and lineage, the storytelling.
01:22:41 --> 01:22:45 The South uniquely as well. So that's a really important piece to understand.
01:22:45 --> 01:22:47 We ended up doing the film primarily in Birmingham.
01:22:48 --> 01:22:52 The original vision was, let's do a little bit of Jackson. We got these other cities.
01:22:53 --> 01:22:56 We got people all over the country, I mean, all over the South.
01:22:56 --> 01:23:02 Let's go get a little bit of each. It just wasn't practical from a budget and time standpoint.
01:23:02 --> 01:23:07 Plus, we were so deep in Birmingham, we thought that we could tell a story that
01:23:07 --> 01:23:12 people can see enough of and think, wow, that reminds me of somebody I know.
01:23:12 --> 01:23:17 Some of the creative artists that we have in the film doing the found art objects.
01:23:17 --> 01:23:20 No matter where you're from, you're listening to this, there's some character
01:23:20 --> 01:23:24 that maybe sits on the street corner and paints, or maybe they're that person
01:23:24 --> 01:23:27 who rides the bike all the time with a camera around their neck.
01:23:27 --> 01:23:32 There's some character that you grew up seeing that is such a key feature of
01:23:32 --> 01:23:34 your community, but you won't see them on the news.
01:23:34 --> 01:23:36 You won't see a feature piece on them.
01:23:37 --> 01:23:42 This film is intended to really also lift those folks up because they are representing
01:23:42 --> 01:23:47 the character of a community that we think other people will see themselves
01:23:47 --> 01:23:49 in from their community perspective.
01:23:50 --> 01:23:53 Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, you're a producer. I mean,
01:23:53 --> 01:23:56 now, you know, you can make it in sequels.
01:23:57 --> 01:24:02 We've talked about that. Yeah, you can do that. Right now, we're just trying to socialize this one.
01:24:02 --> 01:24:06 Right now, we're doing film screenings in cities really around the country.
01:24:06 --> 01:24:08 I'm sitting here at Cornell University right now.
01:24:08 --> 01:24:14 In a few hours, we'll be doing a spring colloquium to be a campus-wide screening
01:24:14 --> 01:24:19 and then a talk back with Noelle and I. So we want to socialize these ideas.
01:24:19 --> 01:24:21 We've done a discussion guide around it. We've.
01:24:25 --> 01:24:27 Showcases people, again, some
01:24:27 --> 01:24:30 of the characters in the film have never had a bio written about them.
01:24:31 --> 01:24:35 And so we wrote a bio and put their photo in our booklet and tried to lift them up.
01:24:35 --> 01:24:40 And we're doing a bunch of other things around the film. If we have time, I'll share with you.
01:24:40 --> 01:24:46 But we have this set of efforts, information, resources that we wrapped around
01:24:46 --> 01:24:50 the film to distinguish it from just another content piece.
01:24:50 --> 01:24:54 Because, man, there's a lot of great important and work that people are doing in film.
01:24:54 --> 01:24:58 I never really sought out to be a filmmaker any more than I sought out to be a government person.
01:24:59 --> 01:25:05 But I do see the opportunity to advance my core mission around sort of the social
01:25:05 --> 01:25:10 contract between us and this civic infrastructure piece. That's my deepest passion.
01:25:10 --> 01:25:14 And people are taking note. So at some point, we'll get some distribution.
01:25:15 --> 01:25:18 We'll figure out where this needs to live permanently. This is not a commercial
01:25:18 --> 01:25:22 effort for Noel and I, so it's not about money for us.
01:25:22 --> 01:25:25 It's really about how do we continue to reinvest in this project and knowing
01:25:25 --> 01:25:27 that, well, she's cooking up the next idea.
01:25:28 --> 01:25:31 She's my pusher. Everybody should have a pusher in their life.
01:25:32 --> 01:25:35 Let's do the next thing. Let's go a level higher. She's that for me.
01:25:35 --> 01:25:38 And I think I'm a bit of a muse for her in some regard.
01:25:39 --> 01:25:44 So pray that for everybody, find a good, stay active, pursue your life mission.
01:25:45 --> 01:25:51 And if you do that, you will interact with people that may be unexpected co-conspirators,
01:25:51 --> 01:25:55 partners, comrades, and something you never thought you'd do.
01:25:55 --> 01:26:00 So I feel very fortunate to be on this project, but really on this journey with
01:26:00 --> 01:26:05 her and a few other people like Mayor Woodfin and other aspects of my career and life. Yeah.
01:26:06 --> 01:26:08 So I got a couple other questions.
01:26:09 --> 01:26:12 What does it mean to be Southern? Yeah.
01:26:12 --> 01:26:16 Interesting because you and I are from the Midwest, but we've managed to put
01:26:16 --> 01:26:18 down our roots here in the South.
01:26:18 --> 01:26:23 And I think what it means to be Southern, although we don't have children now
01:26:23 --> 01:26:29 and they're Southern, is to, I guess, be a couple of things.
01:26:30 --> 01:26:34 There's an authenticity in the South that is distinctive.
01:26:34 --> 01:26:40 Not that other people aren't authentic, but it is different in terms of what
01:26:40 --> 01:26:42 it looks like, feels like, sounds like in the South.
01:26:43 --> 01:26:50 I also just think the traditions around food are very unique and very special in the South.
01:26:50 --> 01:26:54 And lastly, it's really about the relationship to land that is most different.
01:26:55 --> 01:26:59 Because of the history of this country, particularly around the indigenous communities,
01:26:59 --> 01:27:07 it's so weird to me that people don't appreciate how much of our language,
01:27:07 --> 01:27:10 the land that we claim, the land that we talk about,
01:27:10 --> 01:27:14 Appalachia and all these words, they're native land. They're like indigenous.
01:27:15 --> 01:27:19 And so I think the complicated relationship to land and body,
01:27:19 --> 01:27:23 when you consider the South, I think it's just altogether different.
01:27:24 --> 01:27:27 So I don't mean to go too deep on that, but sort of reading Dr.
01:27:28 --> 01:27:33 Monte Perry's book, South to America, and it's reminding me of what the themes
01:27:33 --> 01:27:35 and threads are that run through it all.
01:27:35 --> 01:27:41 And I do think land and body and our relationships to our own and to one another's,
01:27:41 --> 01:27:45 particularly from a racial and ethnic perspective, is really,
01:27:45 --> 01:27:49 really deep and distinctive and different than anywhere else in the country.
01:27:49 --> 01:27:56 So do you agree with Charles Blow and others that there needs to be a remigration to the South?
01:27:57 --> 01:28:01 Well, that's happening already. I think the market will dictate.
01:28:01 --> 01:28:05 Look, I don't think there needs to be. I'm not even sure what that means.
01:28:05 --> 01:28:08 Why would there need to be? You know why he says that?
01:28:08 --> 01:28:14 So his argument is that, you know, for black people,
01:28:14 --> 01:28:20 because of our history in the South and because a lot of us,
01:28:20 --> 01:28:24 you know, generations before us fled the South because of the conditions.
01:28:25 --> 01:28:30 And now when you look at the South and the challenges that it's having compared
01:28:30 --> 01:28:31 to the rest of the nation,
01:28:32 --> 01:28:38 that this is a prime opportunity for Black people to come back and not only
01:28:38 --> 01:28:42 reassert political power, which in some cities like Birmingham,
01:28:42 --> 01:28:47 like Jackson, like Atlanta, they have, but to reassert the economic power.
01:28:47 --> 01:28:52 If you have a... You know, when I saw the film that he did, it was kind of like...
01:28:53 --> 01:28:59 This is kind of a watered down milquetoast appeal from the RNA, right?
01:29:00 --> 01:29:05 And, you know, but I mean, but he did it personally, right?
01:29:05 --> 01:29:08 He, you know, he highlighted his relatives, people he went to school with,
01:29:09 --> 01:29:13 all that kind of stuff, people that never left and then talked to people that
01:29:13 --> 01:29:15 were like him that went somewhere else.
01:29:15 --> 01:29:20 And so that, I think that was kind of the gist of what he was trying to do.
01:29:20 --> 01:29:26 And so, you know, when you see something like, as goes the South,
01:29:26 --> 01:29:32 and you see how attractive Birmingham is, or it puts people in a different perspective,
01:29:33 --> 01:29:39 it kind of fits along what he was saying in a general collective about all the Southern states.
01:29:40 --> 01:29:44 You know, I have a different perspective than most people I know aren't walking
01:29:44 --> 01:29:47 around thinking about and may not even like, but I'm going to go ahead and say
01:29:47 --> 01:29:49 it right here on your podcast.
01:29:50 --> 01:29:55 I think that those of us who are very aware of these dynamics,
01:29:55 --> 01:30:01 so Charles Blow and a lot of others may have a deeper appreciation and understanding
01:30:01 --> 01:30:06 of what it means to reclaim our birthright and reclaim our legacy.
01:30:06 --> 01:30:09 That's true. I would never refute any of that.
01:30:09 --> 01:30:13 My bigger argument, and this is what I've learned from Randall Woodfin and what
01:30:13 --> 01:30:16 I've learned of being in politics and understanding this.
01:30:16 --> 01:30:19 Knocking on doors, man, it's two different worlds.
01:30:20 --> 01:30:24 We exist in a world where people are online and there's these pundits and there's
01:30:24 --> 01:30:26 millions of comments and there's a lot of that.
01:30:27 --> 01:30:30 And so all this conversation is cool. But when you go knock on doors and talk
01:30:30 --> 01:30:33 to real people, man, it's like a whole other world.
01:30:34 --> 01:30:37 So many of us don't even know what history we're talking about.
01:30:37 --> 01:30:39 What are we talking about? They don't even know that there's a birthright.
01:30:40 --> 01:30:43 They know it generally sounds good, but what does it mean?
01:30:43 --> 01:30:48 Because I think that we have crossed the threshold of what it means to know our history.
01:30:48 --> 01:30:53 I think that we have lost an entire generation of understanding of what our history is.
01:30:54 --> 01:30:56 And I'm saying the majority of us.
01:30:58 --> 01:31:02 So, again, people may not like that, but I think the majority of Black folks
01:31:02 --> 01:31:05 right now are walking around, particularly of a certain generation,
01:31:05 --> 01:31:09 they do not have that same relationship to our history.
01:31:10 --> 01:31:15 And we need to understand that. Just as a quick aside, one of the internal arguments
01:31:15 --> 01:31:19 we've had or debates about this film, not Noelle and I, but what I've had with other people,
01:31:20 --> 01:31:24 is as I do work in the Civil Rights District and support the district in my
01:31:24 --> 01:31:30 own way on behalf of the city, yes, we want to update and correct people's perspective
01:31:30 --> 01:31:32 of Birmingham from black or white.
01:31:32 --> 01:31:34 But look at the demographics, y'all.
01:31:35 --> 01:31:40 There's at least a sizable population, maybe even equal, of people who have
01:31:40 --> 01:31:41 never seen that footage.
01:31:42 --> 01:31:46 They haven't seen the footage of dogs and hoses or the four little girls.
01:31:46 --> 01:31:47 They haven't seen it for two reasons.
01:31:47 --> 01:31:52 One is, if it's not showing up in their algorithm, when else would they see
01:31:52 --> 01:31:53 it? Because they're not teaching it in schools.
01:31:55 --> 01:31:59 Wholesale. They're not. And so if they're not teaching in schools and if it's
01:31:59 --> 01:32:01 not showing up in the algorithm, how do they know?
01:32:01 --> 01:32:06 Because we sure ain't telling it in our houses, rent large.
01:32:06 --> 01:32:09 I'm talking about average people. The average person ain't hearing it.
01:32:09 --> 01:32:11 They're not telling it and they're not hearing it. The second part of this though
01:32:11 --> 01:32:18 is we have a generation now that has grown up with Mother Emanuel shooting,
01:32:19 --> 01:32:22 mosque, temples, mass shooting, Sandy Hook.
01:32:23 --> 01:32:29 What's four little girls? What's dogs and hoses in a park up against that massive
01:32:29 --> 01:32:34 set of things that have happened that they just live with? And black and white, no less.
01:32:35 --> 01:32:38 So I want us to be clear about both things.
01:32:39 --> 01:32:44 That's a long way of saying, I don't know that we need to be as concerned about
01:32:44 --> 01:32:47 people moving to the South if they don't know what it means.
01:32:47 --> 01:32:52 There is an opportunity from a population density, and I get that around political
01:32:52 --> 01:32:56 power, because we see other people doing that in other parts of the country.
01:32:56 --> 01:33:01 There are certainly some white folks, white right-wingers, conservative white
01:33:01 --> 01:33:06 folks in particular, that are definitely populating some rural areas and making
01:33:06 --> 01:33:08 it an enclave for their people.
01:33:08 --> 01:33:12 But I don't know that that's necessarily the strategy for us.
01:33:12 --> 01:33:15 What we need to be focused on is our institutions, our civic power,
01:33:15 --> 01:33:21 and making our legacy organizations is more relevant to a new generation of
01:33:21 --> 01:33:23 people that we're going to be counting to lead this way forward.
01:33:24 --> 01:33:30 Yeah, I feel what you're saying. And the only pushback I would have on that,
01:33:31 --> 01:33:34 and it's not a total pushback in the argument because you have a lot of truth in that.
01:33:34 --> 01:33:38 But I think there's an issue about relativity.
01:33:38 --> 01:33:43 And you kind of touched on it when you talked about the 16th Street bombing
01:33:43 --> 01:33:46 as compared to, say, the mass shooting at the Pulse nightclub,
01:33:46 --> 01:33:49 right? Yeah. Or Emanuel Church.
01:33:50 --> 01:33:54 I think it's relative because you and I were both young once.
01:33:55 --> 01:34:01 And so when our grandparents would tell us a story, we look at that gray hair and all that stuff.
01:34:01 --> 01:34:04 And we think, God, that was a long time ago. That can't be affecting us.
01:34:04 --> 01:34:05 You know what I'm saying?
01:34:05 --> 01:34:11 But in the real time, that was only like 20, 30, 40 years ago for some folks, right?
01:34:11 --> 01:34:15 Especially when you talk about our generation and now the younger folks, 60 or 70.
01:34:15 --> 01:34:19 But that's still, in the span of time, it's not a long time.
01:34:19 --> 01:34:23 And so, you know, but people get caught up in America. There's a relatively
01:34:23 --> 01:34:27 issue in America because America is only 250 years old.
01:34:27 --> 01:34:32 So all this stuff has happened and we're just 50 years older than the whole
01:34:32 --> 01:34:35 Greek civilization that we celebrate all the time. Right.
01:34:36 --> 01:34:44 So in the span of time, people don't don't make that equation as far as like how close that is.
01:34:44 --> 01:34:49 And, you know, even though somebody living is telling that story,
01:34:49 --> 01:34:54 they might look at it as like, oh, you know, somebody told them that story or whatever.
01:34:54 --> 01:34:57 So when you see movies like Sinners and all this other stuff,
01:34:57 --> 01:34:59 it puts a modern spin on it.
01:35:00 --> 01:35:05 But at least, you know, people now are getting getting.
01:35:05 --> 01:35:09 And so, you know, I'm not totally discounting what you're saying,
01:35:09 --> 01:35:14 but I do think that part of our issue is that our people.
01:35:14 --> 01:35:18 Young people don't make the connection that this is more recent than they think.
01:35:20 --> 01:35:25 And so that's where a lot of the detachment comes from. But that's a whole nother
01:35:25 --> 01:35:27 podcast. You can come back down and we can talk about that.
01:35:28 --> 01:35:33 Last question. I want you to finish this sentence for me. I have hope because.
01:35:35 --> 01:35:44 I have hope because I have relationships with young people who I believe are as equipped,
01:35:44 --> 01:35:51 as motivated, and want to be prepared as any other generation that have come before us.
01:35:51 --> 01:35:57 I have hope because I believe that we do have a bench of upcoming leaders that
01:35:57 --> 01:35:59 can lead the way. I have hope in them.
01:36:00 --> 01:36:06 Yeah. So you mentioned that you're at Cornell right now. How can people see As Goes the South?
01:36:07 --> 01:36:12 How can they, you know, attend a screening or get get, you know,
01:36:12 --> 01:36:14 how can people see this movie?
01:36:15 --> 01:36:21 Yeah. So soon we will share an updated slate of public screenings.
01:36:21 --> 01:36:25 So we have screenings that we're still doing around the country.
01:36:25 --> 01:36:29 And so that's actually available on our Web site as goes to south film dot com.
01:36:30 --> 01:36:32 It may be a few more months before we get to
01:36:32 --> 01:36:35 a place where the film is readily available for anyone to see
01:36:35 --> 01:36:38 eric we're right now one of our strategies is to
01:36:38 --> 01:36:44 get as much of a run in the film festival circuit as we can in order for us
01:36:44 --> 01:36:49 to do that several of these festivals have rules that it can't be publicly available
01:36:49 --> 01:36:54 for everybody in all these markets where the festivals take place So we're holding
01:36:54 --> 01:36:57 back on a public release until we run that gamut.
01:36:57 --> 01:37:03 And for now, we want people who are interested in this story to host screenings.
01:37:03 --> 01:37:06 If possible, Noelle and I will come and be a part of a screening,
01:37:06 --> 01:37:10 but we don't have to. We're happy to share the film with organizations that
01:37:10 --> 01:37:13 want to do screenings. We'll provide you with a link.
01:37:13 --> 01:37:17 We'll provide you with a resource guide and put you in a position to use this
01:37:17 --> 01:37:21 as a tool to educate young people or just to have a community conversation.
01:37:22 --> 01:37:24 There are so few cities that have...
01:37:26 --> 01:37:30 Messages like this, apparently almost surprised and shocked that this film has
01:37:30 --> 01:37:34 had the impact that it has because of partially because it's really good.
01:37:34 --> 01:37:39 I know that I'm proud of the work, but you talk about in context,
01:37:39 --> 01:37:44 it's also because there's a dearth of this sort of hopeful, authentic,
01:37:45 --> 01:37:48 real content that centers us in a way that's not quippy.
01:37:49 --> 01:37:52 It's not too short. It's not too long. It's just sort of in that sweet spot.
01:37:53 --> 01:37:57 So, and we got a dope soundtrack too. And so people want to feel it in as much
01:37:57 --> 01:38:01 as they want to see it. And we want to put people in a position to do it.
01:38:01 --> 01:38:06 Hit us up on the website. We're on Instagram and LinkedIn at AsGoesTheSouth.
01:38:07 --> 01:38:10 Or you can email us, AsGoesTheSouth at gmail.com.
01:38:11 --> 01:38:20 And if you really bought it, you can shoot me a text, 205-401-7324, 205-401-7324.
01:38:20 --> 01:38:21 I promise you I'll respond.
01:38:22 --> 01:38:25 Yeah, but do it at your own risk, ladies and gentlemen. and do it at your own risk.
01:38:26 --> 01:38:28 Ed Fields, I appreciate you taking the time, brother.
01:38:29 --> 01:38:34 Thank you so much for doing this. Thank you and getting with Noel to put this film together.
01:38:35 --> 01:38:42 We have to have an off-air conversation about some reactions I have about the
01:38:42 --> 01:38:43 film, but it's positive.
01:38:44 --> 01:38:48 But I just, we don't have time, so I have to hit you back on it.
01:38:48 --> 01:38:55 But again, I greatly appreciate you taking this time to talk about it and talk
01:38:55 --> 01:38:57 about what you do in the city.
01:38:57 --> 01:39:00 Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you for a podcast of our time.
01:39:00 --> 01:39:04 It's critically important. I appreciate that. Thank you. All right,
01:39:04 --> 01:39:05 guys, and we're going to catch y'all on the other.
01:39:17 --> 01:39:23 All right, and we are back. And so I just want to thank Chuck Todd and Ed Fields
01:39:23 --> 01:39:25 for coming on the program.
01:39:27 --> 01:39:32 Enjoyed talking to those gentlemen and really, really, really,
01:39:32 --> 01:39:35 really appreciate them gracing this podcast.
01:39:35 --> 01:39:45 It was, as you may have picked up, I've been trying to connect with Brother Todd for a while.
01:39:46 --> 01:39:53 We both kind of started, well, let's say, yeah, we started about the same time,
01:39:53 --> 01:39:55 even though he's a little younger than me.
01:39:55 --> 01:39:58 We, you know, kind of got our moment.
01:39:58 --> 01:40:03 There was an opportunity for our stars to cross, especially when I was running
01:40:03 --> 01:40:06 for U.S. Senate. That didn't happen.
01:40:06 --> 01:40:10 There were some opportunities when I worked for the ACLU. That didn't happen.
01:40:11 --> 01:40:13 But we got this interview done.
01:40:15 --> 01:40:19 I'm really, really grateful to doing that. And as you can tell,
01:40:20 --> 01:40:24 you know, we have affinity not only for politics but for sports.
01:40:24 --> 01:40:28 So please check out the Chuck Toddcast.
01:40:28 --> 01:40:31 Please, you know, because he's based in Washington every day.
01:40:32 --> 01:40:37 Check out, you know, his sports podcast and anything else that he's doing.
01:40:37 --> 01:40:45 And, you know, he's very, very cerebral and very, very frank.
01:40:45 --> 01:40:49 When it comes to his thoughts about politics.
01:40:49 --> 01:40:55 I mean, that conversation, the conversation I had with Chuck and with Ed Fields,
01:40:55 --> 01:41:01 I mean, I could have talked to those guys for like hours, but y'all can't sit in your car.
01:41:01 --> 01:41:07 You can't vibe any more than you already do, which again, I greatly appreciate.
01:41:08 --> 01:41:13 But I hope you appreciate that we were able to talk more than 5,
01:41:13 --> 01:41:17 10, 15 minutes that you would get on the network news because they were trying
01:41:17 --> 01:41:20 to get so many stories and all that stuff.
01:41:20 --> 01:41:24 So I hope y'all greatly appreciated the time that I spent with Chuck and with
01:41:24 --> 01:41:27 Ed Fields. Ed is such a deep brother.
01:41:27 --> 01:41:32 I, you know, is one of those brothers where it's like you can see the wheels
01:41:32 --> 01:41:34 turning and he's a creative.
01:41:35 --> 01:41:42 So he, his, his thoughts flow And I hope that you pick that vibe up and stuff.
01:41:42 --> 01:41:48 And he's very, very conscious about what he says. And he's pretty modest about
01:41:48 --> 01:41:54 who he is and the stature that he has in the city of Birmingham.
01:41:54 --> 01:42:00 To be a trusted advisor of any elected official, especially an executive,
01:42:01 --> 01:42:06 has to have a certain modicum of talent and trust tied into that.
01:42:06 --> 01:42:08 But to be humble about it.
01:42:09 --> 01:42:13 And, you know, understand that there's still some work to do.
01:42:13 --> 01:42:17 You know, there are a lot of people out there like that.
01:42:18 --> 01:42:23 But what we see on the national level, we're not getting that kind of quality,
01:42:24 --> 01:42:26 that kind of thoughtfulness.
01:42:26 --> 01:42:32 And so whenever I get to talk to somebody like Ed Fields, it's greatly appreciated,
01:42:32 --> 01:42:35 especially my background in politics.
01:42:36 --> 01:42:42 So I just thank those guys for coming on. It really, really was cool to have
01:42:42 --> 01:42:45 those conversations, and I hope that you enjoyed those interviews.
01:42:46 --> 01:42:57 Real quick, I just, I don't know how this story is going to end with the current administration.
01:42:59 --> 01:43:10 I just know we got to ride this thing out, man. The drama and the ignorance and the, I don't know,
01:43:11 --> 01:43:18 this whole concept that this is some kind of a game, it really just drives me nuts.
01:43:19 --> 01:43:24 And I know that a lot of you all listening, y'all feel the same way.
01:43:25 --> 01:43:29 And in some sense, y'all feel powerless about it.
01:43:30 --> 01:43:35 But I want to tell you that you're not totally powerless in this deal.
01:43:35 --> 01:43:41 You have a say-so. You have shown that whenever you've been asked to go vote,
01:43:42 --> 01:43:47 even in a district that is gerrymandered so a Republican can win comfortably,
01:43:48 --> 01:43:51 they haven't been winning comfortably this year.
01:43:51 --> 01:43:55 And that's because y'all have been going out in your respective states that
01:43:55 --> 01:43:56 have had elections already and voted.
01:43:56 --> 01:44:04 Whether it's a special election or regular primaries, you send a message and
01:44:04 --> 01:44:06 people are paying attention.
01:44:07 --> 01:44:11 And I hope that you will continue to do that.
01:44:11 --> 01:44:17 Even if your candidate didn't win, I hope you're still motivated to get out
01:44:17 --> 01:44:20 there and let your voice be heard.
01:44:21 --> 01:44:26 Please, please, please do not be discouraged if you supported,
01:44:26 --> 01:44:28 for example, here in Georgia, Sean Harris.
01:44:28 --> 01:44:35 He had an uphill battle to climb, but considering that Donald Trump won that
01:44:35 --> 01:44:44 congressional district by 37 points and the guy that just beat General Harris only won by 11,
01:44:45 --> 01:44:48 should tell you that there's hope.
01:44:50 --> 01:44:54 There is something moving, right?
01:44:55 --> 01:45:01 And it's because of you all. So I just want to really just encourage y'all,
01:45:01 --> 01:45:05 just fight through the noise, just fight through the foolishness,
01:45:06 --> 01:45:10 channel the anger into positive stuff.
01:45:10 --> 01:45:13 You know, if something's going on at your local school board,
01:45:14 --> 01:45:17 if something's going on at your local city council, or even at the county level,
01:45:18 --> 01:45:20 Make your voice be heard.
01:45:20 --> 01:45:23 Go out and show up at the meetings. Petition.
01:45:26 --> 01:45:31 Speak at those council meetings. Do, you know, take advantage of the public comment section.
01:45:32 --> 01:45:36 Just, you know, you don't have to wait for no Kings rally to have a demonstration
01:45:36 --> 01:45:40 about something that's going on that you don't like something nationally,
01:45:40 --> 01:45:44 something you don't like at the state, something you don't like at the county level.
01:45:44 --> 01:45:48 Most state legislatures are winding down if they started in January.
01:45:49 --> 01:45:52 There are some that have started later, so they're still kind of going in.
01:45:52 --> 01:45:58 You can participate in those, even those states that have what we call full-time
01:45:58 --> 01:46:03 legislators, where they meet kind of similar to the schedule at the U.S. Congress.
01:46:04 --> 01:46:07 Show up at the Capitol building, you know.
01:46:08 --> 01:46:13 If you can't physically go to the Capitol building, they got emails, they got phones.
01:46:15 --> 01:46:19 You know, when you see something or you hear something that makes you uncomfortable,
01:46:19 --> 01:46:23 that'll impact your friends, your family, your community.
01:46:24 --> 01:46:30 You have the right to challenge that. You know, we got a president that doesn't
01:46:30 --> 01:46:35 like anybody telling them no, but the reality of American politics is that you're
01:46:35 --> 01:46:39 probably going to be told more, more often than yes.
01:46:40 --> 01:46:44 Because a lot of times we might have ideas and say, hey, I want to do this.
01:46:44 --> 01:46:49 And somebody had to say, well, there's this thing called the Constitution.
01:46:49 --> 01:46:55 You might want to not violate that, whether it's at the state constitution or the U.S. constitution.
01:46:56 --> 01:47:00 Or it might be illegal. It might be against the law, right?
01:47:01 --> 01:47:08 You know, you got to have people to tell you no from time to time.
01:47:08 --> 01:47:13 And since his ego can't handle that, that's why we are in the mess that we're
01:47:13 --> 01:47:15 in. There were people that told him, Mr.
01:47:15 --> 01:47:21 President, do not agree with Netanyahu in attacking Iran.
01:47:22 --> 01:47:28 I understand there's a window of opportunity, but if the intelligence is good
01:47:28 --> 01:47:33 and this is something that's a regular basis, we'll pick another time to make this happen. Right?
01:47:33 --> 01:47:36 There were people that told him that. He said no.
01:47:37 --> 01:47:42 I just heard John Kerry in an interview say that the same pitch that Netanyahu
01:47:42 --> 01:47:46 gave Trump, he gave Obama, he gave Bush, he gave Biden.
01:47:46 --> 01:47:50 And all of them said, no, we're not doing it.
01:47:52 --> 01:47:57 You know, just saying, because it was obvious he didn't have a plan.
01:47:58 --> 01:48:00 He just acted on impulse.
01:48:01 --> 01:48:09 And for those of y'all that are trying to push for this 25th Amendment to kick in,
01:48:10 --> 01:48:15 your best bet is to hope that people like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Tucker
01:48:15 --> 01:48:23 Carlson and Candace Owens and Megyn Kelly and anybody else that's in that stratosphere,
01:48:24 --> 01:48:27 America first, Republican, MAGA, however you want to define it,
01:48:28 --> 01:48:31 They're the only ones that can put pressure on people to do that.
01:48:32 --> 01:48:38 That's not really a real option because you would have to get the vice president
01:48:38 --> 01:48:42 to go along with members of the cabinet to say, yeah, I don't think this guy
01:48:42 --> 01:48:44 is fit to do the job anymore.
01:48:45 --> 01:48:49 And then once they come to an agreement, then they got to present it to Congress.
01:48:49 --> 01:48:55 And considering that Mike Johnson is the worst speaker of the House ever,
01:48:55 --> 01:48:59 he actually believes that he's a member of the president's cabinet instead of
01:48:59 --> 01:49:05 being the leader of the House of Representatives, right?
01:49:07 --> 01:49:11 One of the most powerful people in the country, and he doesn't understand that.
01:49:11 --> 01:49:13 He's capitulated at power.
01:49:14 --> 01:49:19 There's no way the 25th Amendment will work. So I'm just telling you as somebody
01:49:19 --> 01:49:26 that's been in politics, somebody that understands the dynamics of how that's
01:49:26 --> 01:49:28 all supposed to play out, that's wishful thinking.
01:49:29 --> 01:49:34 But what you can do is make sure that all those people,
01:49:34 --> 01:49:40 that want to wear that MAGA endorsement, all those people that want to do like
01:49:40 --> 01:49:45 Mike Johnson and just do whatever Trump says, that they don't get in office.
01:49:46 --> 01:49:51 Especially in the U.S. Congress In those states that are running people for
01:49:51 --> 01:49:57 governor and all that Don't elect those people that are trying to out-Trump
01:49:57 --> 01:49:59 each other Don't go for any of them,
01:50:00 --> 01:50:09 I will send a message, right? In Georgia, you know, once the Democrats determine their nominee.
01:50:11 --> 01:50:18 You know, the Republicans are throwing out either Rick Jackson or Burt Jones or Butch Jones.
01:50:18 --> 01:50:22 I always get them mixed up. There was a football player named Burt Jones back
01:50:22 --> 01:50:25 in the day. He was the quarterback for the Colts when they were still in Baltimore.
01:50:25 --> 01:50:32 And he was from LSU. So, you know, I always mix their names up.
01:50:33 --> 01:50:38 And because Butch played for Georgia, the lieutenant governor.
01:50:39 --> 01:50:46 So, you know, but, you know, the Republicans, they're trying to out-Trump each other.
01:50:47 --> 01:50:52 So when it comes down, whoever wins, whoever you feel should be the Democratic
01:50:52 --> 01:50:56 nominee in Georgia, support that candidate all the way through.
01:50:56 --> 01:51:00 Convince your friends. It's like, aren't you tired of these folks trying to
01:51:00 --> 01:51:04 follow a guy that doesn't even know the basic concept of war?
01:51:04 --> 01:51:06 Of being a commander-in-chief?
01:51:07 --> 01:51:08 Come on, man.
01:51:09 --> 01:51:15 The guy that campaigned and said, I want to reduce your cost of groceries and
01:51:15 --> 01:51:21 then puts a tariff on every nation in the world, which will automatically raise
01:51:21 --> 01:51:24 your prices on everything,
01:51:24 --> 01:51:27 not just groceries, everything, right?
01:51:28 --> 01:51:32 You know, you're picking all these, you're picking people that every day,
01:51:32 --> 01:51:36 you know, We're saying, how does this person have a job?
01:51:36 --> 01:51:39 Oh, yeah, that's right. He's cool with the president.
01:51:39 --> 01:51:44 That's not how this is supposed to work. Then he gets mad because the one entity
01:51:44 --> 01:51:49 that seems like they can tell him no from time to time is the court system.
01:51:50 --> 01:51:52 Now he wants to get rid of all the judges that he don't like,
01:51:53 --> 01:51:57 including the ones he appointed on the Supreme Court, because they tell them no.
01:51:58 --> 01:52:01 Don't support anybody that supports that kind of guy.
01:52:02 --> 01:52:08 It's just real simple. It's going to take some time for us to undo the damage.
01:52:08 --> 01:52:12 You know, it's just an old adage. It's like it takes a long time to build something,
01:52:13 --> 01:52:14 but it doesn't take long to tear it up.
01:52:15 --> 01:52:20 Ten years that this guy has been in the political, 11 years now,
01:52:20 --> 01:52:24 I guess, that he's been in the political conversation.
01:52:24 --> 01:52:27 He's done nothing but destroy the institutions.
01:52:28 --> 01:52:36 It's almost like he's planning for, like, our 250th anniversary to be our last one.
01:52:36 --> 01:52:44 He wants to have UFC fights and military parades and fireworks and all this stuff.
01:52:45 --> 01:52:50 Sounds like he's trying to end the country as we know it with a bang.
01:52:50 --> 01:52:57 I think he put Elon Musk on the committee to even handle the celebration. I don't know.
01:52:58 --> 01:52:59 All I know is that.
01:53:01 --> 01:53:10 Never seen anybody deliberately try to destroy the very nation that they lead. I've never seen it.
01:53:11 --> 01:53:16 I think there's some people that have some delusions of grandeur to make their
01:53:16 --> 01:53:20 nation the most powerful nation on the planet,
01:53:20 --> 01:53:26 and they've done some heinous things to their citizens in order to keep power,
01:53:27 --> 01:53:32 but I've never seen anybody actively try to destroy the very nation that they
01:53:32 --> 01:53:36 lead and then turn around and try to say that it's hot.
01:53:37 --> 01:53:42 So there's a lot of damage that's been done. And so it's going to take some
01:53:42 --> 01:53:47 patience on our end when we elect people that are responsible to fix it.
01:53:47 --> 01:53:53 Because even with the change in Congress, we still got two more years of that guy.
01:53:55 --> 01:53:59 And by law, he can't be president anymore once his term is over.
01:54:00 --> 01:54:07 But if he's allowed to continue to destroy the institution, that can be up for question, right?
01:54:09 --> 01:54:14 So don't get frustrated. Don't get angry. Well, you can get angry.
01:54:15 --> 01:54:22 But channel that energy and maximize it to do the most good.
01:54:24 --> 01:54:27 We can't fix it all overnight, but we can start fixing on it.
01:54:27 --> 01:54:32 Got to get the right carpenters in. We got to get the right masons in.
01:54:32 --> 01:54:43 We got to get the right builders in to rebuild our institutions and even take
01:54:43 --> 01:54:50 advantage of the opportunity to reshape them so they can be more responsive to us. Right?
01:54:51 --> 01:54:55 Because, you know, those of us as a Christian faith, we're told that sometimes
01:54:55 --> 01:54:58 we're broken down so we can build a better person.
01:54:59 --> 01:55:04 They use Saul of Tharsis as an example.
01:55:04 --> 01:55:08 And next thing you know, he came back as the Apostle Paul. Right?
01:55:11 --> 01:55:16 So I know this is a tough time, but I promise you we're going to get through it.
01:55:18 --> 01:55:22 And the best way that we can get through it is just stay focused.
01:55:23 --> 01:55:27 Election Day is coming. November, the first Tuesday in November is coming.
01:55:29 --> 01:55:35 And despite whatever polls are out there and all that stuff, you do your part.
01:55:36 --> 01:55:41 And if everybody does their part, we can change this thing. We can reverse this
01:55:41 --> 01:55:44 structured course that we're on.
01:55:44 --> 01:55:52 And I will be right there with you. You know, I'm doing this along with other
01:55:52 --> 01:55:57 podcasters to be that voice to guide you and to give you encouragement.
01:55:57 --> 01:56:03 Some people can make you laugh at what's going on. Some people can give you
01:56:03 --> 01:56:04 more in-depth analysis.
01:56:05 --> 01:56:09 But we're all trying to do the same thing. We're trying to get to a point where
01:56:09 --> 01:56:18 this is going to get better and give us a chance to reshape this nation for the next 250 years.
01:56:19 --> 01:56:23 Lot, but this country is still worth fighting for.
01:56:23 --> 01:56:30 Your home, your community, your state, this nation is worth fighting for.
01:56:30 --> 01:56:38 So I'll end it on that, but I just had to say, don't be discouraged at all.
01:56:38 --> 01:56:41 Just focus. We'll make it through.
01:56:42 --> 01:56:44 All right, that's all I got. Thank y'all for listening.