In this episode, Julia Ismael, founder of The Equity Consortium, Sean Miller, founder of the Liberty Policy Alliance, and The Podcast Law Firm of Pearson & Pearson (Melba and Dr. Tracy) offer their assessments of President Trump’s first 100 days of his second term.
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Welcome. I'm Erik Fleming, host of A Moment with Erik Fleming, the podcast of our time.
00:00:06 --> 00:00:08 I want to personally thank you for listening to the podcast.
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00:01:11 --> 00:01:16 The following program is hosted by the NBG Podcast Network.
00:01:21 --> 00:01:56 Music.
00:01:56 --> 00:02:01 Hello, and welcome to Another Moment with Erik Fleming. I am your host, Erik Fleming.
00:02:02 --> 00:02:08 And today, y'all, I'm excited, but I'm going to give you a warning. This is a long episode.
00:02:08 --> 00:02:11 But I'm excited, even though it's a long episode,
00:02:11 --> 00:02:16 is because the conversations that you're going to hear in this episode of the
00:02:16 --> 00:02:24 podcast center around the first hundred days of this administration,
00:02:24 --> 00:02:27 the second Donald Trump term.
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 And I'm really, really excited.
00:02:32 --> 00:02:37 I mean, these conversations really, we get the young lady who is going to be
00:02:37 --> 00:02:41 on, she's basically in the world of DEIA.
00:02:43 --> 00:02:48 And so she gives her perspectives about the challenges, not only being under
00:02:48 --> 00:02:54 this administration, but, you know, just in general and where we should go.
00:02:55 --> 00:02:59 Then I have a young man who is not affiliated with the Democrats or the Republicans,
00:03:00 --> 00:03:06 who has started an organization to deal with issues, more of a libertarian, if anything else.
00:03:07 --> 00:03:14 But it's interesting. He gives an interesting perspective about where we are
00:03:14 --> 00:03:19 in these first hundred days, his criticisms, and even some things that he might have liked, right?
00:03:19 --> 00:03:27 And then, as a special treat, we have the podcast law firm of Pearson and Pearson.
00:03:27 --> 00:03:33 Yes, my good friends, Dr. Tracy and Melba have teamed up again to give us another
00:03:33 --> 00:03:41 insightful conversation about the legal impact of what's happened over these first hundred days.
00:03:42 --> 00:03:47 So, I know I'm asking a lot from y'all.
00:03:47 --> 00:03:51 To sit through some of these podcasts because they're going to be long.
00:03:53 --> 00:04:00 But again, I will defend it because the detail in the conversation to really
00:04:00 --> 00:04:03 get to know somebody, to really get them to take the time,
00:04:04 --> 00:04:09 and not in a soundbite, but to really get off a clear thought,
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 I think is invaluable because it's a conversation.
00:04:13 --> 00:04:19 And we don't want to limit the conversation to eight minutes to 10 minutes to 15 minutes even, right?
00:04:20 --> 00:04:25 We want to have an in-depth conversation. So if that means a long podcast, then it is what it is.
00:04:25 --> 00:04:30 But I hope those of you who faithfully listen do it because you appreciate the
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 fact that we get in-depth in these conversations.
00:04:37 --> 00:04:43 And even the length of the, you're still scratching the surface sometimes based on the subject matter.
00:04:43 --> 00:04:48 That's especially true with my good friends, Tracy and Melba,
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 when we get to talking about legal stuff going on.
00:04:52 --> 00:04:56 So let's go ahead and get this show on the road.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:01 And as always, we kick it off with a moment of news with Grace G.
00:05:03 --> 00:05:08 Music.
00:05:08 --> 00:05:14 Thanks, Erik. President Trump held events marking his first 100 days in office
00:05:14 --> 00:05:19 to highlight his administration's achievements amid unprecedented negative approval ratings.
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 President Trump dismissed National Security Advisor Mike Waltz,
00:05:23 --> 00:05:26 appointed Secretary of State Marco Rubio as his interim replacement,
00:05:26 --> 00:05:28 and then nominated Waltz as U.N.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:33 Ambassador against a background of criticism over the March signal call scandal.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:37 Columbia University student Mohsen Madawi was released from U.S.
00:05:37 --> 00:05:43 Custody after a judge blocked his deportation tied to pro-Palestinian protests. The U.S.
00:05:43 --> 00:05:49 And Ukraine finalized a Trump-backed deal granting preferential mineral access to the U.S.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 And establishing a Reconstruction Fund.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:56 Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney's liberals narrowly retained power in parliamentary
00:05:56 --> 00:06:01 elections after a campaign influenced by opposition to U.S. tariffs and policies.
00:06:02 --> 00:06:07 Wisconsin Judge Hannah Dugan was arrested and charged with obstructing a federal
00:06:07 --> 00:06:11 investigation by allegedly helping a man in her courtroom evade arrest.
00:06:11 --> 00:06:15 Former U.S. Representative George Santos was sentenced to over seven years in
00:06:15 --> 00:06:20 prison for fraud and identity theft after pleading guilty to charges related
00:06:20 --> 00:06:22 to his 2022 election campaign.
00:06:23 --> 00:06:28 A former Taliban commander, Haji Najibullah, leaded guilty to kidnapping a journalist
00:06:28 --> 00:06:33 and Afghan nationals in 2008-2009 and faces life imprisonment.
00:06:33 --> 00:06:38 Luigi Mangione pleaded not guilty to federal charges for the killing of health
00:06:38 --> 00:06:40 insurance executive Brian Thompson.
00:06:40 --> 00:06:46 Kenyan opposition lawmaker Charles Ware was assassinated in Nairobi by motorcycle-riding
00:06:46 --> 00:06:48 shooters, with his driver surviving the attack.
00:06:49 --> 00:06:53 The historic Claiborne Temple in Memphis, a civil rights landmark and site of
00:06:53 --> 00:06:59 Martin Luther King's last campaign, was severely damaged by fire during a restoration project.
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03 Measles cases in Texas and New Mexico increased to 729.
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 And Dr. Jawanza Kunjufu, author
00:07:07 --> 00:07:11 and advocate for the education of Black youth, died at the age of 71.
00:07:12 --> 00:07:15 I am Grace Gee, and this has been a Moment of News.
00:07:16 --> 00:07:22 Music.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 All right. Thank you, Grace, for that moment of news.
00:07:26 --> 00:07:32 And now it is time for my guest, Julia Ismael.
00:07:32 --> 00:07:40 Julia Ismael is the founder and head architect of Aspirations of the Equity
00:07:40 --> 00:07:45 Consortium, whose two-word mission is to institutionalize equity.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:50 Yet the title Julia is most proud of is Mother of Three.
00:07:51 --> 00:07:57 Julia boldly finds joy in bringing the gift of equity to the world by standardizing
00:07:57 --> 00:08:02 workplace complaint systems and offering community-created equity assessments
00:08:02 --> 00:08:06 for organizations across size, field, and sector.
00:08:06 --> 00:08:11 Moreover, Julia finds satisfaction in providing equity advocates and practitioners
00:08:11 --> 00:08:16 with these very tools to help us all in our collective mission to rebalance
00:08:16 --> 00:08:22 power and enjoy financial security by providing a system of mutual support.
00:08:22 --> 00:08:25 She looks forward to the consortium's monthly listening circles,
00:08:26 --> 00:08:32 a place between work and home to share story, curiosity, and wisdom as a necessary
00:08:32 --> 00:08:34 space to plan our collective future.
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest
00:08:38 --> 00:08:42 on this podcast, Julia Ismael.
00:08:43 --> 00:08:52 Music.
00:08:52 --> 00:08:56 All right julia ismael how
00:08:56 --> 00:08:59 you doing sister you doing good so far so good i'd
00:08:59 --> 00:09:04 be it'd be hard to find something to complain about well i
00:09:04 --> 00:09:07 understand where you're coming from at least on my corner of the universe yeah
00:09:07 --> 00:09:12 yeah yeah you're in a good corner you're up there and in the great pacific Northwest
00:09:12 --> 00:09:18 Seattle been there a couple of times it's it's very nice up there I actually
00:09:18 --> 00:09:20 thought about trying to move up there once,
00:09:21 --> 00:09:25 Job didn't work out, but, you know, gave me a chance to hang around the city
00:09:25 --> 00:09:30 and get some of that Jones soda. Are you are you a soda drinker?
00:09:31 --> 00:09:35 Oh, yes. And Jones soda, it's one of our pride of Seattle.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 So, yes, absolutely. Yeah. You got a chance to at least see the area.
00:09:40 --> 00:09:43 Oh, yeah. I got to take a tour. So sad story about my Jones soda.
00:09:43 --> 00:09:46 So I got there, did the tour.
00:09:46 --> 00:09:50 They were trying out some sparkling water. I guess that didn't work out for him.
00:09:51 --> 00:09:59 So I got to sample that. And then I got a bottle of the Seahawks soda that they were selling.
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 And I'm coming back and I get ready to get on the airplane.
00:10:03 --> 00:10:06 And the TSA guy says, what's this?
00:10:07 --> 00:10:11 I said, it's my souvenir from the Jones Soda Company.
00:10:11 --> 00:10:14 He said, yeah, well, that souvenir is going to stay with me.
00:10:14 --> 00:10:15 It's over three ounces. I was like, no.
00:10:16 --> 00:10:20 I said, you can't let that slide. And he said, no, brother, I got to hold on
00:10:20 --> 00:10:21 to it. I said, well, I hope you enjoy it.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:27 Yeah, I know everything. Oh, what a shame. I didn't get to drink it.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:29 But anyway, I hope that made that TSA guy happy.
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 Oh, shoot. I went to give you for your birthday.
00:10:35 --> 00:10:40 So I do some other icebreakers. And you being a moderator by profession,
00:10:40 --> 00:10:44 you kind of understand that exercise. So I've got a couple for you.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:51 The first one is a quote. no matter how difficult learn to tell the truth what
00:10:51 --> 00:10:52 does that quote mean to you?
00:10:53 --> 00:10:56 Oh my goodness there is
00:10:56 --> 00:11:02 an absolute necessity for us especially people who have been the subject of
00:11:02 --> 00:11:15 harm it is a necessity that we learn how to speak our truth with grace and the the.
00:11:16 --> 00:11:20 The gift of truth, we have to begin to see it as a gift.
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 Being able to tell the truth is a sign of love.
00:11:25 --> 00:11:30 Say, for example, you've got something in your teeth, right?
00:11:30 --> 00:11:34 And your friend says to you, oh, you have something in your teeth.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:36 This is telling you the truth.
00:11:36 --> 00:11:39 Even though it's difficult, it might be uncomfortable or awkward,
00:11:39 --> 00:11:46 and it's not an easy thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do, to tell the truth.
00:11:46 --> 00:11:54 And so we're learning how to tell truthful things and not only listen with grace,
00:11:54 --> 00:11:57 but to be able to speak it with grace as well.
00:11:58 --> 00:12:02 So, yeah, lovely quote. Tell me the quote one more time again because I liked it.
00:12:03 --> 00:12:07 No matter how difficult, learn to tell the truth.
00:12:07 --> 00:12:11 Yes. I think that's actually a quote that either you said or something.
00:12:11 --> 00:12:13 I found it on the website, I believe.
00:12:14 --> 00:12:17 I think that's something that you actually said.
00:12:18 --> 00:12:20 That's probably why it resonates.
00:12:23 --> 00:12:27 Thank you, Pastor Julia, for being so insightful. All right.
00:12:28 --> 00:12:33 So my next icebreaker is I need you to give me a number between 1 and 20.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:41 17. Okay. What's something about people who see the world differently than you
00:12:41 --> 00:12:43 that you've come to appreciate?
00:12:44 --> 00:12:49 What is something about seeing the world differently that I've come to appreciate?
00:12:50 --> 00:12:55 Funny that you ask that in this time in my life. I just turned 48 years old
00:12:55 --> 00:12:58 and my mother passed away earlier this year.
00:12:58 --> 00:13:02 My youngest child is now graduating from high school.
00:13:02 --> 00:13:14 And what I'm realizing is the beauty in intergenerational thoughts.
00:13:14 --> 00:13:23 And as I'm transitioning from adulthood to baby elderhood, and I'm seeing my
00:13:23 --> 00:13:26 children go from child to young adult,
00:13:26 --> 00:13:31 there's an immense amount of learning that's happening on both ends to me.
00:13:31 --> 00:13:37 And so the perspectives of those who have come before me, those of my elders,
00:13:37 --> 00:13:42 and appreciating their perspective on life as it being different than mine,
00:13:42 --> 00:13:47 even in terms of how we plan for the future and how far in the future we plan
00:13:47 --> 00:13:50 is another perspective I'm learning.
00:13:50 --> 00:13:57 And to look at the young people who are growing in their agency based on a whole
00:13:57 --> 00:13:58 new perspective of life.
00:13:59 --> 00:14:07 The futurists, they make me very optimistic in their ability to see things from
00:14:07 --> 00:14:14 completely, absolutely new perspectives and question reality to degrees I have never,
00:14:14 --> 00:14:16 never seen before.
00:14:16 --> 00:14:24 And so my job right now and in the middle of these two differences is to simply
00:14:24 --> 00:14:29 remain open and excited about learning for the rest of my life.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 But yeah, lovely, lovely question again.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:40 So, and I pulled this from your website too. Why do you describe yourself as an odd bird? Yeah.
00:14:40 --> 00:14:50 I am an odd bird. I have self-declared this because I realized after the last
00:14:50 --> 00:14:52 kind of paycheck job that I had,
00:14:53 --> 00:14:59 wherein I was working for other people's mission, even though it was in alignment
00:14:59 --> 00:15:03 with my own mission, life mission, it wasn't exact.
00:15:03 --> 00:15:12 And what folks are willing to tolerate for the paycheck in return for being
00:15:12 --> 00:15:15 able to fulfill even a part of their life mission,
00:15:15 --> 00:15:24 what we're able to put up with and tolerate, I found myself at odds at so many
00:15:24 --> 00:15:29 instances where I just look up all of a sudden and I think, how are we able to say this?
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 Why aren't the person who we're affecting, it's not in the room.
00:15:33 --> 00:15:35 Why do you think that this is fair?
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 You know, how has this always been done like this? It's not working.
00:15:40 --> 00:15:45 And I've seen it through, you know, job positions, through volunteer positions.
00:15:45 --> 00:15:49 And five years ago, I thought, wow, if I apply for another job,
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 I'm probably going to last about three or four months before they fire
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 me because i'm so outside of the
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 norm my my tolerance level is
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 almost zero and i i have
00:16:01 --> 00:16:07 this need to kind of go back to your first question and around truth telling
00:16:07 --> 00:16:16 there is an insatiable need for me to speak the truth and i have made it my
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 my mission to do so in the most gracious ways,
00:16:20 --> 00:16:21 but I didn't start out like that.
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 And so I realized through all of these experience that.
00:16:26 --> 00:16:34 Yes, I'm odd. I'm odd. But to the point where now I'm discovering even,
00:16:34 --> 00:16:36 you know what, maybe it's not me.
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 Maybe the rest of the world is odd and I'm the normal one.
00:16:40 --> 00:16:48 And so I have just decided to embrace that definition of myself and stop trying
00:16:48 --> 00:16:54 to fit myself into systems that were not designed for me and thinking it's my fault.
00:16:55 --> 00:16:57 And so that is my declaration of self-love.
00:16:58 --> 00:17:01 Well, I definitely can relate to that.
00:17:02 --> 00:17:08 I remember my dad telling me I was, you know, I've been fortunate to have some
00:17:08 --> 00:17:09 very distinctive positions.
00:17:10 --> 00:17:14 But in the regular work world, I've made a lot of transitions.
00:17:15 --> 00:17:20 And I remember, I guess I was either in my 40s, I guess I was in my 40s,
00:17:20 --> 00:17:26 and my dad kind of pulled me aside and he said, Erik, I need you to do something for me.
00:17:26 --> 00:17:32 I said, what do you need, sir? He said, I need you to go into this job not being
00:17:32 --> 00:17:34 the smartest person in the building.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:40 And I said, what do you mean? He said, He said, you have to understand that
00:17:40 --> 00:17:45 even though you might be better at the job than the person that hired you,
00:17:45 --> 00:17:52 you have to understand where you are and get situated and, you know,
00:17:52 --> 00:17:56 and work within the system and all that kind of stuff.
00:17:57 --> 00:18:00 He said, I shouldn't have to tell you that because you've been in politics,
00:18:00 --> 00:18:04 but, you know, sometimes, you know, you weren't exactly like,
00:18:05 --> 00:18:09 you know, what's the term I want to use? What did he say?
00:18:09 --> 00:18:13 You weren't exactly a follower, I think he said. When it came to politics,
00:18:13 --> 00:18:14 you were always kind of a maverick.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 And so, you know, with this job, this seems like a pretty good job.
00:18:18 --> 00:18:22 Maybe you want to kind of humble yourself a little bit. So I definitely understand
00:18:22 --> 00:18:27 where you're coming from as far as like when you see something and you know
00:18:27 --> 00:18:33 it's not right and you're trying to figure out a way to navigate that without being offensive,
00:18:33 --> 00:18:38 trying to be constructive and, you know, and really not trying to jeopardize your job.
00:18:38 --> 00:18:40 I definitely understand where you're coming from.
00:18:41 --> 00:18:47 All right. So you stated that your mission is to institutionalize equity. Yeah.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:54 How did your, and this is a quote from you, autodidactic degree in liberation
00:18:54 --> 00:19:00 of self and a diploma from the Secondary Community School of Hard Knocks and
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 Love lead you to that mission?
00:19:03 --> 00:19:09 Oh, my goodness. Reading over my biography like this. Oh, my gosh.
00:19:09 --> 00:19:15 Yes. I am a firm believer in lifelong learning.
00:19:15 --> 00:19:23 And the fact that we can re-examine our relationship with how we transmit knowledge
00:19:23 --> 00:19:26 and from who and when and where and why.
00:19:27 --> 00:19:32 I do consider myself a graduate from the School of Hard Knocks.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:40 There is no paper degree to document and quantify that qualitative experience
00:19:40 --> 00:19:47 of living in this skin, living in this body, in this culture and society.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:53 So, for example, like I do actually, I have degrees from the universe,
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 like a real paper going to debt level degree.
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 But what they don't tell you as a person of color,
00:20:02 --> 00:20:07 as a person who's been actively marginalized and disenfranchised in this culture
00:20:07 --> 00:20:12 and society, what they don't tell you when you enter places of higher education
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 Or even, you know, K through 12,
00:20:15 --> 00:20:25 there is an unseen expectation to add to the richness of the classroom, right?
00:20:25 --> 00:20:29 Because of your very identity, just of the body in which you were born.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:35 And so while I would register for the same classes, say like my white male colleague,
00:20:35 --> 00:20:37 we're not taking the same class.
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 We have the same content, but we don't have the same directives.
00:20:42 --> 00:20:47 We don't have the same roles, and how are we contributing to the education of
00:20:47 --> 00:20:53 our peers, which is often done in careless and harmful ways.
00:20:53 --> 00:21:01 And so the unseen, the uncredited burden of educating simply for the fact that
00:21:01 --> 00:21:09 this is the body I was born into and the world needs what I know is often uncredited.
00:21:09 --> 00:21:14 So I just went ahead and gave myself credit for it. I said, I have done these things. I have...
00:21:17 --> 00:21:24 Gotten lived experience, in my opinion, to be 100% perfectly honest,
00:21:25 --> 00:21:32 is not something that should ever be diminished in value. If anything, it should be elevated.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:40 I was a paralegal, for example, for 12, 13 years before this iteration of equity advocacy.
00:21:40 --> 00:21:46 And I work in law offices right alongside law students who have just come out
00:21:46 --> 00:21:53 of law school and they know nothing about how the law office works,
00:21:53 --> 00:21:55 right? How clients work.
00:21:55 --> 00:22:02 They know theory and function and paperwork and process, but they don't understand the practice, right?
00:22:02 --> 00:22:07 And so there is something that cannot and shall never,
00:22:07 --> 00:22:10 ever be taught in a classroom when it's
00:22:10 --> 00:22:12 so dependent on you have to live it you have to
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 experience it to understand it to be able
00:22:15 --> 00:22:20 to transmit what you've learned you have to experience the thing first and so
00:22:20 --> 00:22:25 that's that's where that uh self-description in my bio comes from in in relation
00:22:25 --> 00:22:35 to my education and how that manifests in my in how i um um gauge others' credentials.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:42 This is also a role that is a major factor in the way that I conduct my business.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:50 I do not rely on certificates and degrees alone to tell me how qualified this person is.
00:22:50 --> 00:22:53 My first question is, what is your lived experience?
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 Everything after that will follow. And so, like, for example,
00:22:57 --> 00:23:01 anytime I do subcontracting work, my first question is, again,
00:23:02 --> 00:23:03 what is your lived experience?
00:23:03 --> 00:23:07 And my only second question, to confirm their qualifications.
00:23:07 --> 00:23:10 I don't even ask for degrees. I don't care.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:13 The second qualification is,
00:23:14 --> 00:23:18 Have you connected your lived experience to systems that are greater than yourself?
00:23:19 --> 00:23:24 And that's it. That is all I feel like a person needs to be qualified.
00:23:24 --> 00:23:29 Everything else, we can literally read books. We can go online.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:34 We can get all of the same class curriculum as any class in any university.
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 We can do these learning.
00:23:36 --> 00:23:42 It is not dependent on a system that has kept us from knowledge and advancement.
00:23:42 --> 00:23:44 I'm not depending on them.
00:23:44 --> 00:23:46 To qualify people anymore.
00:23:47 --> 00:23:51 So, yeah. Great question. You're making me want to reread my bio again.
00:23:55 --> 00:24:00 I'm ready now, though. Yeah, you know, but it's like you're a very transparent
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 person from what I've gathered.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:07 And so it's not surprising that you've been, you know, when you put down your
00:24:07 --> 00:24:12 life story, your bio, that you're very revealing in that.
00:24:12 --> 00:24:18 But, you know, and I was just thinking about when Kanye West first came on the
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 scene, I guess the album was College Dropout.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:26 He had a lot of little interludes and there was this one, there was a constant
00:24:26 --> 00:24:32 theme in interlude where it was like the dad, I guess, or the gentleman,
00:24:32 --> 00:24:33 he was kind of following the interlude.
00:24:33 --> 00:24:37 He was going to school and getting all these degrees and all that stuff.
00:24:37 --> 00:24:41 And he ended up like on a park bench covered in his degrees.
00:24:42 --> 00:24:47 He couldn't function in society, but he was very, very educated according to the system, right?
00:24:48 --> 00:24:53 And that was the statement he was making that it's one thing to have the educational
00:24:53 --> 00:24:59 sense, but if you can't interact in life, which I think is ironic now considering who I'm talking about,
00:25:00 --> 00:25:05 if you can't interact in life, then all that paper doesn't matter.
00:25:05 --> 00:25:06 All that sheepskin doesn't matter.
00:25:08 --> 00:25:12 So for the past, no, no, here's the question I want to ask first.
00:25:12 --> 00:25:19 Is the American culture ready to purposefully focus our attention on new practices,
00:25:20 --> 00:25:25 policies, and procedures that encourage equity and eliminate the opportunity for biases?
00:25:26 --> 00:25:31 Are we ready? Are we ready for this? Yes, ma'am. I'm here.
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 I'm at a place now erik where
00:25:37 --> 00:25:45 i don't care if they're ready or not we are and that that's that's the whole
00:25:45 --> 00:25:52 point and it is in this in this new era and it is so obviously to everybody
00:25:52 --> 00:25:55 a new era this is a new time.
00:25:55 --> 00:26:01 And we, when I say we, people who have been advocating for equity this whole
00:26:01 --> 00:26:05 time, the people are standing up saying, I told you so, I told you so, us.
00:26:06 --> 00:26:09 We've been preparing for this moment for a long time.
00:26:09 --> 00:26:13 Nothing that has happened recently is any surprise whatsoever.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:19 The pace, yes, the frenetic, urgent nature, yeah, maybe it's a little surprising.
00:26:19 --> 00:26:23 But these things have been in the works since the birth of America?
00:26:24 --> 00:26:29 And how are we preparing ourselves?
00:26:29 --> 00:26:37 My first objective in answering this question is to disengage from their interests.
00:26:38 --> 00:26:42 I have been advocating to my fellow equity advocates,
00:26:42 --> 00:26:45 the people who have actual titles that
00:26:45 --> 00:26:48 say diversity director this and i've been telling them for
00:26:48 --> 00:26:51 years watch out the watch out
00:26:51 --> 00:26:54 you are we are dependent on on
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58 fulfilling our our our mission our
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 what we know and not even just our mind but
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04 our our gut our instinct our ancestors are
00:27:04 --> 00:27:10 begging us to do these things and and and we're being ignored and and we're
00:27:10 --> 00:27:15 still benefiting the organization because they get to check the box and say
00:27:15 --> 00:27:23 that they have us while we get to not be able to live in our work.
00:27:25 --> 00:27:30 And are we ready? No, they'll never be ready.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:36 That's the whole point. They will never be ready, but it's not up to them anymore
00:27:36 --> 00:27:38 because we weren't ready either.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:41 We were never ready for their plans for us.
00:27:41 --> 00:27:49 So it's either they plan or we plan and those are the only two options and when
00:27:49 --> 00:27:52 it comes to preparedness and
00:27:52 --> 00:28:00 I have seen this beautiful evolution in the work of equity advocacy over the last couple of decades.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:09 It began with, let me describe the problem to you so that it will stop.
00:28:09 --> 00:28:14 I'm going to have whole bodies of research.
00:28:15 --> 00:28:20 I'm going to have whole courses and degrees. I'm going to have literature in
00:28:20 --> 00:28:25 every format possible to describe to you what this harm is.
00:28:26 --> 00:28:30 This is a microaggression. This is institutional racism.
00:28:30 --> 00:28:36 And now we have appealed to the heart, to the mind, right?
00:28:36 --> 00:28:41 If you intellectually understand this, of course, your better angels will come
00:28:41 --> 00:28:44 and respond because nobody likes being a bad person.
00:28:44 --> 00:28:50 And that's true. I mean, we are good people. But it's not enough It's not enough
00:28:50 --> 00:28:56 to simply understand What fire is When it's burning your house down.
00:28:57 --> 00:29:02 I can understand all the things about, you know, the science of what it is,
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 but it's not putting the fire out.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:13 And so here now we are in this beautiful position of, okay, we've answered what hurts.
00:29:13 --> 00:29:16 And we've done it down to the T.
00:29:17 --> 00:29:21 If you close your eyes and I pull a single hair anywhere on your body,
00:29:21 --> 00:29:24 you can tell me exactly what follicle it is.
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 It is actually not that difficult.
00:29:27 --> 00:29:31 It's not that challenging to answer what hurts.
00:29:32 --> 00:29:38 What is most challenging is to answer what feels good, what works.
00:29:38 --> 00:29:42 And that's the question that we've been answering. Well, what's going to happen
00:29:42 --> 00:29:48 after all of this racism is out of the office and people are not homophobic?
00:29:48 --> 00:29:53 Okay, what does that look like? What has changed?
00:29:53 --> 00:29:57 What in your circumstances, environment is making that possible?
00:29:57 --> 00:30:04 So, for example, Malcolm Gladwell, the author, he's a sociologist who has a lot of great books.
00:30:04 --> 00:30:11 In one of his books, he mentions the medical surgery students.
00:30:11 --> 00:30:18 And in the course of their education, they are given a surgery operating theater
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 where everything is, you can see it in your head already,
00:30:21 --> 00:30:27 everything is white, it's monochromatic, it is sterile, it is without texture,
00:30:27 --> 00:30:34 and it's for a very good reason because they need to focus on the subject, right?
00:30:34 --> 00:30:40 They have made an environment that is conducive to eliminate any distractions,
00:30:40 --> 00:30:42 to eliminate any emotional connection.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:48 So on the surgery, they will always, if they're able to, cover the face and
00:30:48 --> 00:30:49 they'll cover the hands.
00:30:50 --> 00:30:55 Because those are the most intimate parts of the place where we connect.
00:30:56 --> 00:31:01 And so they will focus on everything within that little area that they need
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 to focus on. And then everything else disappears.
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 And that's the environment that makes that conducive. It works.
00:31:06 --> 00:31:13 So we apply that same philosophy to areas where we want to encourage connection,
00:31:13 --> 00:31:15 where we want to encourage like this.
00:31:15 --> 00:31:20 And so if we don't change the environment, how are we expecting the content to change?
00:31:20 --> 00:31:30 Right? And so we have to address people's better angels, their positive ways
00:31:30 --> 00:31:32 we want to work. We have to give them the tools.
00:31:33 --> 00:31:37 It's not our fault that we inherit these bad systems. It's just not.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:41 We need to stop taking responsibility for that. They came before us.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:45 Even if I make my own business, I'm inheriting just models that I've learned.
00:31:46 --> 00:31:52 So we have to, first of all, disassociate and say, this is not my system.
00:31:53 --> 00:31:57 Right. This is something I was given. I've done my best with it, but it's not for me.
00:31:57 --> 00:32:02 And it doesn't matter what body I was born into. It's not for me. It doesn't feel good.
00:32:02 --> 00:32:11 And so to be able to simply give somebody the tools to paint the room a pretty color,
00:32:11 --> 00:32:16 like going back to the surgery analogy, like what tool do you need to change
00:32:16 --> 00:32:18 your environment so that you can go back to normal?
00:32:18 --> 00:32:22 Right so that you can feel like you're matching
00:32:22 --> 00:32:26 the the environment right you're not sticking out
00:32:26 --> 00:32:29 right like this and so that's why we focused
00:32:29 --> 00:32:32 on systems and after uh doing
00:32:32 --> 00:32:36 evaluations i had a really beautiful i have a really beautiful service for that
00:32:36 --> 00:32:41 too but the the results were you need complaint systems and thinking about my
00:32:41 --> 00:32:47 own personal experience yeah duh i don't know like It took me years to come
00:32:47 --> 00:32:50 back to something that to me now seems so obvious,
00:32:50 --> 00:32:56 but I think it's because contemplating introducing a whole new justice system
00:32:56 --> 00:33:02 is so unbelievably daunting and so far outside of any one organization's mission.
00:33:03 --> 00:33:08 I can see why it has just been kind of kicked down the road, you know?
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 So we just said, okay, we're going to stop. We're going to pause everything
00:33:12 --> 00:33:18 that we're doing. And we, the equity consortium, we are going to make that our mission.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:22 And so, yeah, I can see why. It took over a year and a half,
00:33:22 --> 00:33:27 dozens of people involved, and I don't know, probably 2 hours so far.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:30 So it's like, yeah, it's no small task.
00:33:30 --> 00:33:35 And to be able to kind of build that bridge between the past of what we know
00:33:35 --> 00:33:39 we don't need and the future of what we do need, but I don't know how to get there.
00:33:39 --> 00:33:46 That's where we have just dedicated ourselves to making that happen and because we deserve it.
00:33:47 --> 00:33:50 We're so smart and we deserve it. It's our time to plan.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:58 So as a follow up for the past hundred days, the Trump administration has done
00:33:58 --> 00:34:00 their best to end D.E.I.A.
00:34:00 --> 00:34:03 And quote unquote world culture. How much.
00:34:04 --> 00:34:10 Excuse me. How much damage has been done or is it too early to assess?
00:34:12 --> 00:34:17 I, I, I'm kind of answer with both. Yes.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:25 There has been damage done already, and it's still too early to assess the depth of it.
00:34:26 --> 00:34:29 Yes. Oh, gosh, where to begin?
00:34:30 --> 00:34:36 What concerns me the most in all of these most recent actions is not actually
00:34:36 --> 00:34:39 the immediate impact. It's the lasting impact.
00:34:40 --> 00:34:45 The one thing that keeps me up at night, I mean, of all the thousand things
00:34:45 --> 00:34:54 to choose from, You might find this one really odd, but our museums, our legacy,
00:34:54 --> 00:35:03 our connection to objective history is being systemically erased.
00:35:03 --> 00:35:11 And the responsibility to document our history as humans, as humanity,
00:35:11 --> 00:35:16 in this great experiment of America is being erased.
00:35:18 --> 00:35:23 And, like, women in STEM on NASA's website,
00:35:23 --> 00:35:28 the individual who was, you know, named and put the picture,
00:35:28 --> 00:35:34 that woman, she has her record of her being there in screenshots and whatnot, but where does it go?
00:35:36 --> 00:35:41 And are we ever able to get that back? And that's just our digital footprint.
00:35:42 --> 00:35:47 I'm concerned about our physical, historical records.
00:35:49 --> 00:35:58 It's just having ancestors who were enslaved and knowing how traumatic it and
00:35:58 --> 00:36:03 how many generations it takes to reclaim one's history and connection to it.
00:36:03 --> 00:36:06 To me, that is the most traumatic event.
00:36:07 --> 00:36:11 Everything else they're doing, I literally don't care. I saw it coming.
00:36:11 --> 00:36:18 I have never depended on them for self-validation, for even a livelihood.
00:36:18 --> 00:36:29 And I'm very sorry to all of the people who have trusted in this system when
00:36:29 --> 00:36:34 they give them titles of diversity and that they have trusted in this system
00:36:34 --> 00:36:37 to protect them when it has never been true.
00:36:37 --> 00:36:41 And another interesting thing, though, that has been happening,
00:36:41 --> 00:36:50 and I am rooting for it 100%, I love it, is that there is a natural sifting going on here.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:56 There is an obvious call from organizations
00:36:56 --> 00:37:01 who are doubling down on their commitment to diversity, equity.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:06 Those are the people we're learning who to support and who to ignore.
00:37:06 --> 00:37:09 You know like Costco and target.
00:37:11 --> 00:37:14 Perfect example. Like, where are we powerful?
00:37:15 --> 00:37:22 And this is something that I'm just in love with and terrified of at the same time.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:26 Like, I wake up, like, recently, like, the last three or four days,
00:37:26 --> 00:37:29 I've just been waking up thinking, what's stopping us?
00:37:30 --> 00:37:34 You know, this whole system is predicated on
00:37:34 --> 00:37:38 the belief that people will naturally want
00:37:38 --> 00:37:41 to follow rules they're going to
00:37:41 --> 00:37:44 buy their get their tabs renewed they're going to
00:37:44 --> 00:37:47 pay their mortgage they're going to follow all the
00:37:47 --> 00:37:51 rules because that's the social contract
00:37:51 --> 00:37:54 if i follow the rules then i'm guaranteed you know
00:37:54 --> 00:37:57 justice and safety and free like this right there
00:37:57 --> 00:38:02 was an exchange there but we're realizing very concrete
00:38:02 --> 00:38:05 tangible in your face this contract
00:38:05 --> 00:38:09 is broken i have given everything
00:38:09 --> 00:38:12 i have done everything i'm supposed to and this is what
00:38:12 --> 00:38:21 you're doing in return what's to stop us and so i i get giddy i get super giggly
00:38:21 --> 00:38:27 and then i also get like oh maybe i shouldn't be giggling so loud because what
00:38:27 --> 00:38:30 I'm thinking, what I'm seeing,
00:38:30 --> 00:38:32 I can see it. I can feel it.
00:38:33 --> 00:38:35 It's about to pop off.
00:38:35 --> 00:38:39 It's about to pop off because you can push somebody so far.
00:38:41 --> 00:38:47 And it's a lovely thing about human nature is that there's a phenomenon called
00:38:47 --> 00:38:48 default to belief, right?
00:38:49 --> 00:38:55 We look for any and every reason to want to believe somebody's telling the truth.
00:38:55 --> 00:39:00 This is what keeps us alive This is what keeps us in community This is what
00:39:00 --> 00:39:03 keeps us together and bound To each other's fate.
00:39:04 --> 00:39:10 People who are trained to default to disbelief are police officers, right?
00:39:10 --> 00:39:16 A police officer will ask you where you're going and assume that you're lying, right?
00:39:16 --> 00:39:18 Ask you where you're coming from, assume that you're lying.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:26 But us, when we are defaulting to believing in this system, it takes,
00:39:26 --> 00:39:31 I don't know how many times to prove that somebody's lying to your face.
00:39:32 --> 00:39:37 They're lying to you. They don't care about your grocery bill.
00:39:37 --> 00:39:41 They don't care about your mortgage or your student loan. They don't.
00:39:41 --> 00:39:45 But how many times does it take to be convinced, right?
00:39:45 --> 00:39:52 And that's where we are. We're finally being convinced that we're being lied to.
00:39:52 --> 00:39:59 And that's a bad feeling. And it sucks. It sucks. It feels like I've been duped.
00:40:00 --> 00:40:03 I've been played for a fool, you know? And they blinded me, like,
00:40:03 --> 00:40:05 this makes me mad, right?
00:40:05 --> 00:40:08 And so, like, this is a moment of reckoning.
00:40:08 --> 00:40:16 And my one and only job on this planet is to make sure that we are prepared for the day after.
00:40:17 --> 00:40:23 We recognize that they're lying. We have to build our truth. The meanwhile.
00:40:26 --> 00:40:34 And I'm Muslim, right? And so I have this beautiful faith that says Allah is
00:40:34 --> 00:40:37 the best of all planners, right?
00:40:37 --> 00:40:42 And so my job as an individual, as one single soul on this planet,
00:40:42 --> 00:40:48 is to simply recognize and understand my part in a story that is greater than mine.
00:40:48 --> 00:40:51 My own time, my own place.
00:40:52 --> 00:40:54 This story spans millennia.
00:40:55 --> 00:40:58 And we're just in a little part of it right now, doing our little part.
00:40:58 --> 00:41:09 But it is inviting growth with compassion because it's our right to do so.
00:41:09 --> 00:41:16 And I'm never letting anybody ever again steal my magic. They can have it. I give it freely.
00:41:16 --> 00:41:20 But they can't steal it from me anymore. It's a distraction.
00:41:20 --> 00:41:23 And I'm tired. I don't have any more room for distraction.
00:41:23 --> 00:41:27 And so, yeah, great question. Definitely a question of our time.
00:41:27 --> 00:41:31 So ask me again in like 10 years, and I wonder what the answer is.
00:41:31 --> 00:41:35 All right. Hopefully it won't take that long to get you back on the show,
00:41:35 --> 00:41:39 but okay. Oh, yeah. No, let's hope not. All right. So I'm going to...
00:41:40 --> 00:41:44 So I'm going to ask you this question, and then I'm going to close out because
00:41:44 --> 00:41:47 I had a couple more, and I'm going to figure out a way to combine them.
00:41:47 --> 00:41:52 But the next question I want to ask you is, why are you not a big fan of the
00:41:52 --> 00:41:59 phrases, thoughts and prayers, we condemn, we stand with, or our hearts go out to?
00:42:00 --> 00:42:04 Oh, you read my how to write a statement on Palestine, huh?
00:42:05 --> 00:42:10 Yes, ma'am. That's what it sounds like it came from. Yes. I'm all about that action boss.
00:42:10 --> 00:42:17 Coming here from in Seattle, we have a phrase about that action boss because
00:42:17 --> 00:42:20 I cannot stand it. I can't stand it.
00:42:20 --> 00:42:30 It is language like that that allows the status quo to continue. It is placating.
00:42:30 --> 00:42:35 I've heard it described as like masturbatory language, excuse my language,
00:42:35 --> 00:42:41 but it serves to self-satisfy and it does nothing to the recipient.
00:42:41 --> 00:42:45 I don't need thoughts and prayers. I need money and time off.
00:42:45 --> 00:42:49 I need tangible things and tools.
00:42:49 --> 00:42:58 And this is where I'm really finding a growing role in this emerging society
00:42:58 --> 00:43:01 for people of a spiritual base.
00:43:01 --> 00:43:07 Now, this might not seem connected at first, but as people who have been most
00:43:07 --> 00:43:12 affected by harm, we are not victims.
00:43:12 --> 00:43:20 We are students of life, and we have graduated from those learning, right?
00:43:21 --> 00:43:27 Our experience of, oh, I don't even know how to put words on it.
00:43:28 --> 00:43:36 There's this gut feeling of absolute injustice where you feel voiceless and
00:43:36 --> 00:43:43 powerless and people are actively dissuading you from believing that you feel like that.
00:43:43 --> 00:43:47 There's no way to...
00:43:49 --> 00:43:55 Teach this experience. And if there was, I wouldn't want to do it.
00:43:55 --> 00:43:59 I don't want people who have never experienced that to ever have to experience
00:43:59 --> 00:44:08 that kind of anguish of abject injustice, of moral, of spiritual injustice, right?
00:44:08 --> 00:44:12 That it affects even your health and who you are as a person.
00:44:13 --> 00:44:19 There's no way to quantify the value in that learning.
00:44:19 --> 00:44:26 The humility that comes with that type of experience, the empathy,
00:44:27 --> 00:44:31 the ability to empathize with someone else going through something similar, right?
00:44:31 --> 00:44:38 Those are to be skills that are going to be highly elevated in the future.
00:44:39 --> 00:44:43 We have to be led by people who have been most affected.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:50 It is our right. And in exchange for that gift of our learning and of our experience,
00:44:50 --> 00:44:55 of our sacrifice, in exchange, we need resources.
00:44:56 --> 00:45:00 So we need power. We need money.
00:45:01 --> 00:45:04 That's the exchange. I don't need thoughts and prayers.
00:45:04 --> 00:45:10 I don't care about their intentions. I need concrete exchange.
00:45:11 --> 00:45:17 We need to rewrite the social contract in exchange for my experience and expertise
00:45:17 --> 00:45:18 and compassion and wisdom.
00:45:19 --> 00:45:25 I will receive your resources because we can't have one without the other.
00:45:26 --> 00:45:30 We are dependent on each other at this point in time.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:33 They have resources. We have knowledge, right?
00:45:34 --> 00:45:37 Brains and muscle, brawn like this, right?
00:45:37 --> 00:45:46 And that is back to the fact of, I'm not waiting for somebody to give me power,
00:45:46 --> 00:45:53 to invite me to the table, to include me in their whatevers. I have my own.
00:45:53 --> 00:46:00 They can come to me, right? And then look, we are so clever.
00:46:00 --> 00:46:05 We have survived and sustained for so long with less than nothing.
00:46:05 --> 00:46:08 I don't actually even need their things.
00:46:09 --> 00:46:13 I don't need their resources. We have resources.
00:46:13 --> 00:46:18 I hope you watch Sinners When
00:46:18 --> 00:46:21 you see it Pay attention
00:46:21 --> 00:46:25 to the economy Of the
00:46:25 --> 00:46:33 sharecropping plantation We had our own currency We had wooden nickels Because
00:46:33 --> 00:46:39 of the discrepancy Between what is earned and what is owed It's built in We
00:46:39 --> 00:46:44 had to accommodate for the discrepancy and we created our own currency.
00:46:45 --> 00:46:52 We don't need their resources. It is simply us and our infinitely gracious,
00:46:53 --> 00:46:58 soulful selves offering the rest of the world their humanity back.
00:46:59 --> 00:47:02 And Martin Luther King said a lot of super wise things.
00:47:03 --> 00:47:06 And one of the things he said was, we're in a position to restore the humanity
00:47:06 --> 00:47:10 of those who have oppressed us.
00:47:10 --> 00:47:16 Right? That is a power dynamic flip. I am so down for every last inch of it
00:47:16 --> 00:47:20 because it feels right. It feels true.
00:47:20 --> 00:47:26 It feels like divine or moral, spiritual level of justice. Right.
00:47:27 --> 00:47:31 We, once those who have been affected by harm,
00:47:31 --> 00:47:37 who have had the time and place to heal and to come together and plan for the
00:47:37 --> 00:47:42 benefit of the whole, we absolutely deserve our time to shine.
00:47:42 --> 00:47:47 And so does the rest of the world, because I will tell you, hands down,
00:47:47 --> 00:47:52 maybe one percent, two percent of our human humanity is just sociopathic.
00:47:52 --> 00:47:54 There's no fixing them, right?
00:47:55 --> 00:47:58 But I tell you, the rest of us, not a single one of us is not suffering.
00:47:59 --> 00:48:02 We're all suffering. White people are suffering.
00:48:03 --> 00:48:08 All of us are suffering. Them on a spiritual, ethical, moral element level,
00:48:08 --> 00:48:11 us on a resource, you know, worldly level.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:14 But each of us have what the other one needs.
00:48:15 --> 00:48:23 And I have made it a point since my day one to invite anyone and everyone, right?
00:48:23 --> 00:48:28 I don't have groups for, you know, this one's for people of color and this one's for white people.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:32 No, we're human beings. and we
00:48:32 --> 00:48:38 have to begin to practice seeing each other as humans first and then recognizing
00:48:38 --> 00:48:43 our unique healing journeys because white people need a lot of healing too and
00:48:43 --> 00:48:49 I do not envy them for their to-do list because mine's just like I'm healing from resource stuff.
00:48:49 --> 00:48:54 It's worldly stuff. But spiritual healing, that's hard.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:59 And I don't have nothing to say. That's on them. That's their job. I can't even help.
00:49:00 --> 00:49:05 That's their task. I'm like, my task is to deal with, you know, resource like this.
00:49:06 --> 00:49:10 So, yeah, hearts and minds, good intentions, thoughts and prayers. I got, yeah.
00:49:12 --> 00:49:17 No, I need action. Yes. So, yeah, great question. Well, you just,
00:49:17 --> 00:49:19 you're digging all the way deep on the website.
00:49:20 --> 00:49:25 Yeah, yeah. I, you know, I try to, because I really want people to know the
00:49:25 --> 00:49:32 guests that I have on. And so I think you answered the concept of what I wanted
00:49:32 --> 00:49:33 to make the final question.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:38 Because you talked about one of the things I wanted to ask you was dealing with
00:49:38 --> 00:49:42 government and then one was with the equity consortium.
00:49:42 --> 00:49:48 And so gathered from that last statement, I would say that there's two power dynamics.
00:49:49 --> 00:49:57 Right. So government has a power dynamic as far as money and resources and policy,
00:49:57 --> 00:50:02 whereas the equity consortium has a power dynamic of knowledge.
00:50:02 --> 00:50:08 Because we understand that knowledge is power and that through that knowledge,
00:50:08 --> 00:50:12 you can generate, you can be innovative in creating resources.
00:50:12 --> 00:50:18 So I guess the way I want to close it out is,
00:50:18 --> 00:50:29 do you feel that it's more important for the equity consortium to do the work
00:50:29 --> 00:50:33 as opposed to waiting for the government to catch up?
00:50:34 --> 00:50:43 Yes, we have to take initiative. We're no longer waiting for permission to begin or continue.
00:50:44 --> 00:50:48 For the last couple of years, the Equity Consortium, we focused on resolution
00:50:48 --> 00:50:50 systems, formerly known complaint systems.
00:50:51 --> 00:50:57 And this is a perfect example of, to answer your question, as to recognizing
00:50:57 --> 00:51:03 the balance or the line between or the relationship between institutional support
00:51:03 --> 00:51:05 and change and leadership.
00:51:05 --> 00:51:09 And those from what I consider like grassroots, like the people most affected, right?
00:51:10 --> 00:51:13 Let me illustrate it with the resolution system.
00:51:14 --> 00:51:20 Government support, institutional involvement comes at a very specific point
00:51:20 --> 00:51:24 in a person's harmed experience, right?
00:51:24 --> 00:51:29 So let's say, for example, I'm at work and I'm experiencing discrimination and
00:51:29 --> 00:51:33 harassment and my boss is really being a bully and I'm having a lot of health issues, right?
00:51:35 --> 00:51:42 There are the first opportunity to resolve this is within the organization,
00:51:43 --> 00:51:47 within the institution itself.
00:51:48 --> 00:51:55 This is, in this kind of metaphor situation, this in this scale is like grassroots.
00:51:55 --> 00:52:00 This is people, people-powered. It's still in the people-powered part of our world, right?
00:52:00 --> 00:52:05 It has nothing to do with laws, government like this. Because people are powering
00:52:05 --> 00:52:12 this willy-nilly, like, Wild West resolution systems that are super basic,
00:52:12 --> 00:52:15 like, contact your supervisor, because that's all we know how to do, right?
00:52:15 --> 00:52:18 It's just people working with other people, working with people, people.
00:52:20 --> 00:52:24 Between that and, okay, well, that's not working.
00:52:24 --> 00:52:30 What's my, what's another, what's the next step, right? Then we go to say,
00:52:30 --> 00:52:33 okay, how is the system going to help me solve this?
00:52:33 --> 00:52:35 How are the institutions, how is
00:52:35 --> 00:52:40 the justice system, how are all of these agencies going to help me, right?
00:52:41 --> 00:52:46 You can file a claim with these institutions.
00:52:47 --> 00:52:53 And we know, because there are statistics and research, you're most likely not going to prevail.
00:52:53 --> 00:53:00 There's a 95% fail rate for the EEOC, for example, and the 5% that do prevail,
00:53:00 --> 00:53:05 their average payout is $3, and it takes five years.
00:53:06 --> 00:53:09 And they don't give you a lawyer. You have to get your own lawyer.
00:53:10 --> 00:53:17 That's with the EEOC. If that doesn't work, then you are able to file with a
00:53:17 --> 00:53:24 civil claim, right? Get a case number, jury duty like this, which takes another five years.
00:53:24 --> 00:53:29 And now you've probably left your job and wanting to move on with your life like this.
00:53:29 --> 00:53:38 And so that's how far apart people are and the system that's supposed to serve us.
00:53:39 --> 00:53:44 And so I'm not waiting for the system to come to the middle and say,
00:53:45 --> 00:53:47 oh, there's this big wasteland of justice here going on.
00:53:48 --> 00:53:53 We can fix it and institute it. And I'm not waiting for the organization to
00:53:53 --> 00:53:57 be able to put their own mission aside and work on a resolution system for a
00:53:57 --> 00:54:00 year and a half and say, okay, here, we can do it like this.
00:54:00 --> 00:54:09 And so that's why we're not expecting either of these extremes to initiate the bridge in between.
00:54:09 --> 00:54:12 It's neither of their jobs or their nature.
00:54:13 --> 00:54:18 And especially those who have caused the problem, have created systems that
00:54:18 --> 00:54:24 are harmful, maybe ought not be responsible for creating systems that are to replace it and fix it.
00:54:24 --> 00:54:30 So at some point, we had to untie the Gordian Knot. We had to say, okay, everybody stop.
00:54:31 --> 00:54:39 We're going to step in this one time, address this void, And then we're going
00:54:39 --> 00:54:43 to go back to our regular scheduled program like this.
00:54:43 --> 00:54:53 And so there is potential in this, in having systems on the institutional,
00:54:53 --> 00:55:01 the societal side that actually do reflect what is needed from the people who are affected.
00:55:02 --> 00:55:06 And it is a process. It is a slow and deliberate,
00:55:07 --> 00:55:11 try this, oh, that doesn't work, let me try it another way, and that doesn't
00:55:11 --> 00:55:18 work, because it needs to be like that for it to be sustainable for generations.
00:55:18 --> 00:55:25 I don't mind taking five, maybe 10 years to perfect a system before introducing
00:55:25 --> 00:55:29 it to the institutional, statewide, federal level.
00:55:29 --> 00:55:34 We should have the confidence to know that it works in the ways that we intended
00:55:34 --> 00:55:38 it to work. And so I don't mind going slow.
00:55:38 --> 00:55:48 I'm actively reconnecting with natural timing of the world, of life,
00:55:49 --> 00:55:53 of the cycles of creation and destruction. It's fine.
00:55:53 --> 00:56:02 I'd rather have a perfect product. Perfect. I can't settle for 99% anymore Because
00:56:02 --> 00:56:06 that 1% you think doesn't matter today 10 years from now.
00:56:07 --> 00:56:12 It's going to matter. And so I will not move forward with anything until I'm
00:56:12 --> 00:56:16 100%. And that's our right to do so. We deserved it and we earned it.
00:56:17 --> 00:56:23 And so I'm starting, for example, with a bridge building between people to people.
00:56:23 --> 00:56:24 And this is the institution.
00:56:26 --> 00:56:33 I'm starting gently. We have to be gentle. There has to be the promise of and
00:56:33 --> 00:56:39 the ability to produce mutual benefit at every single turn.
00:56:39 --> 00:56:44 And so thinking about like, okay, the complaint system, resolution system, we've been at odds.
00:56:44 --> 00:56:48 Like people have been affected and the administration, we've been on opposite
00:56:48 --> 00:56:55 sides when we don't have to be this whole time because nobody likes harassment at work.
00:56:56 --> 00:57:00 Administrators don't like it. Employees don't like it. So we turn and we say,
00:57:00 --> 00:57:05 okay, we're going to fight this together because it's mutual benefit, mutual interest.
00:57:05 --> 00:57:08 I don't want to lose my job. You don't want to lose an employee.
00:57:08 --> 00:57:13 And so we figure out, okay, what is the language that we both understand and can agree with?
00:57:13 --> 00:57:23 And so this is just one of the steps that I see towards a future of totally
00:57:23 --> 00:57:25 redefining the employee-employer relationship.
00:57:25 --> 00:57:34 And it's based on that new role that, you know, government and that even like
00:57:34 --> 00:57:37 your boss plays in your personal life.
00:57:37 --> 00:57:45 And this is just one of the most obvious areas to focus first is how do we deal
00:57:45 --> 00:57:47 with complaints and conflict? It's not if, it's when.
00:57:48 --> 00:57:59 And so that's why we decided to focus there on our way to bring the past into the future. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:01 --> 00:58:04 Wrong answer. No, no, no. But that's great. That's great. All right.
00:58:04 --> 00:58:10 So if people want to get more of this wisdom from you and the equity consortium,
00:58:10 --> 00:58:14 how can they get in touch with you? How can they get in touch with the consortium?
00:58:14 --> 00:58:16 Go ahead and give that plug.
00:58:17 --> 00:58:22 Wonderful. Thank you. I live for having conversations with absolutely no agenda.
00:58:23 --> 00:58:27 Our mission is not only to institutionalize equity. We are also a home for equity
00:58:27 --> 00:58:32 advocates. And no matter what position you are, whether it's official or unofficial,
00:58:33 --> 00:58:37 in your quest to institutionalize equity, we are here for all of that.
00:58:38 --> 00:58:42 And you can find us at theequityconsortium.com.
00:58:42 --> 00:58:45 There's ample information about our services and what we offer.
00:58:46 --> 00:58:48 We have an upcoming...
00:58:49 --> 00:58:53 Learning space, a repeat of what you were able to attend last time, Eric.
00:58:54 --> 00:59:00 It is two days where we share literally anything and everything we know about complaint systems.
00:59:00 --> 00:59:05 The date is June 2nd and 3rd, I believe, but it is on our website.
00:59:05 --> 00:59:06 It will be on our website.
00:59:06 --> 00:59:09 We're updating it today and we'd love to see you there.
00:59:09 --> 00:59:16 And we've actually added a third day for this time in June, And it's specifically for consultants.
00:59:16 --> 00:59:21 And so we do work with consultants. We are not selfish with our product.
00:59:21 --> 00:59:25 Our mission is to institutionalize equity.
00:59:25 --> 00:59:33 That means far and wide. And so we have a new program for equity consultants
00:59:33 --> 00:59:38 who are interested in incorporating our complaint system into their existing
00:59:38 --> 00:59:40 work, either in whole or in part.
00:59:40 --> 00:59:46 We also have new opportunities to subcontract out parts of our work with our
00:59:46 --> 00:59:50 clients because we love paying people.
00:59:50 --> 00:59:54 We just love it. Over the five years that we've been in business,
00:59:54 --> 00:59:56 we have contracted, subcontracted out,
00:59:56 --> 01:00:02 worked to over three dozen of our colleagues, and we love to pay $200 an hour
01:00:02 --> 01:00:08 because we feel like that is a livable wage that is commiserate with your skill and expertise.
01:00:08 --> 01:00:10 Having lived through all of this.
01:00:10 --> 01:00:16 And so we look forward to knowing what you're up to, how we can support you.
01:00:16 --> 01:00:20 And we'd also love to see you at one of our monthly listening circles.
01:00:20 --> 01:00:23 There's been tradition for the last five years.
01:00:23 --> 01:00:31 We meet every last Tuesday of the month for two and a half hours online to answer a single question.
01:00:32 --> 01:00:35 For example, a question we've had in the past, and I think it's kind of relevant
01:00:35 --> 01:00:38 to our conversation today because I had thought about it earlier.
01:00:39 --> 01:00:42 Was where does love and power intersect in your
01:00:42 --> 01:00:45 life and so we we take a question
01:00:45 --> 01:00:49 like this and we just listen to everybody in
01:00:49 --> 01:00:52 turn without fear of interruption their beautiful
01:00:52 --> 01:00:57 answer and in this way i have learned immense immensely more than i've ever
01:00:57 --> 01:01:03 learned in my degree it has informed all of our services and our products and
01:01:03 --> 01:01:09 it is it's an invaluable source you are life and i would love to meet with you,
01:01:09 --> 01:01:12 learn your thoughts about the future, and see what we can build together.
01:01:13 --> 01:01:19 So, Erik, thank you so much for the wonderful questions, for your patience and the timing of today.
01:01:19 --> 01:01:22 And I really do look forward to hearing more from you.
01:01:23 --> 01:01:29 Yeah. Well, Julia Ismael, it's been an honor to have you on more than just your
01:01:29 --> 01:01:34 presence, but the spirit that you've emanated through these audio waves.
01:01:35 --> 01:01:42 And I wish you much continued success in the work that you're doing with the Equity Consortium.
01:01:42 --> 01:01:46 And as always, I tell guests, you have an open invitation to come back,
01:01:46 --> 01:01:49 so I'm burning your chest. Say, look, Erik, I need to talk about this.
01:01:50 --> 01:01:54 Just feel free to reach out and we'll get you on. So I'm glad that we were able
01:01:54 --> 01:01:57 to make the time today. I've been looking forward to this for a while.
01:01:58 --> 01:02:00 So thank you again for coming on.
01:02:00 --> 01:02:04 My absolute pleasure. And I'm Already looking forward to the next time.
01:02:04 --> 01:02:06 All right, guys. And we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:02:06 --> 01:02:25 Music.
01:02:26 --> 01:02:33 All right, and we are back. And so now it is time for my next guest, Sean Miller.
01:02:33 --> 01:02:38 Sean Miller is a libertarian activist and founder of the nonprofit organization,
01:02:38 --> 01:02:40 the Liberty Policy Alliance.
01:02:41 --> 01:02:46 Sean seeks to advance the principles of libertarianism through limiting the
01:02:46 --> 01:02:51 power of government and the advancement of individual liberty and the concept
01:02:51 --> 01:02:56 of negative rights, and he is also a fellow Georgian.
01:02:56 --> 01:03:01 Yeah, we're both in the Atlanta area, so ladies and gentlemen,
01:03:01 --> 01:03:08 it is my distinct honor and privilege to have as a guest on this podcast, Sean Miller.
01:03:09 --> 01:03:18 Music.
01:03:19 --> 01:03:23 All right. Sean Miller. How you doing, sir? You doing good?
01:03:23 --> 01:03:27 I'm doing all right, Erik. How about you? Doing fine. I'm just like you.
01:03:28 --> 01:03:33 For the audience, we're both in the Atlanta area, so we're trying to stay away from the rain today.
01:03:34 --> 01:03:39 But I'm glad, Sean, you were able to come on because I want to talk to you about
01:03:39 --> 01:03:44 your organization, the Liberty Policy Alliance, and then just kind of give your
01:03:44 --> 01:03:48 feedback about what's going on in the political world right now.
01:03:49 --> 01:03:53 So what I do is I have an icebreaker face that interviews.
01:03:53 --> 01:03:58 So the first thing I do is throw a quote at the guest. So this is your quote.
01:03:59 --> 01:04:04 Politicians will always disappoint you, but the ideals of liberty will never
01:04:04 --> 01:04:06 let you down. What does that quote mean to you?
01:04:07 --> 01:04:13 That means for me as for me as an individual, that means that I not to put too
01:04:13 --> 01:04:18 much stock in what somebody says, but more their actions.
01:04:18 --> 01:04:21 Like politicians all the time they campaign
01:04:21 --> 01:04:24 they campaign campaign season last campaign season often
01:04:24 --> 01:04:27 lasts longer than the legislative sessions especially at
01:04:27 --> 01:04:30 the state level a lot of state legislatures are part-time
01:04:30 --> 01:04:34 like our state of georgia goes from january
01:04:34 --> 01:04:37 till april sometimes even just till march and
01:04:37 --> 01:04:41 then you've got the special sessions obviously texas meets
01:04:41 --> 01:04:44 once every two years outside the
01:04:44 --> 01:04:47 special sessions but what what never
01:04:47 --> 01:04:49 lets what what keeps me it's something that keeps me
01:04:49 --> 01:04:53 going is the ideals of the ideals that people are free
01:04:53 --> 01:04:58 to live their life as long as they're not hurting people they're not taking
01:04:58 --> 01:05:02 their stuff they're not they're just trying to start their business or make
01:05:02 --> 01:05:08 their money somehow have have their family have their house with the 2.5 kids
01:05:08 --> 01:05:10 in the white picket fence and.
01:05:11 --> 01:05:17 Just being free to have that as an American but politicians lie all the time,
01:05:18 --> 01:05:19 politicians will tell you,
01:05:19 --> 01:05:27 what you want to hear and then vote against that very thing the very next day, so there's nothing.
01:05:30 --> 01:05:36 It's a cynicism that I've grown to accept but it's a it's a reality working
01:05:36 --> 01:05:38 in politics that you just have to live with at times.
01:05:39 --> 01:05:45 Yeah. Well, I know that when I was, you know, Mississippi legislature is the
01:05:45 --> 01:05:52 same way we were in from January to like the first, first or second week in April.
01:05:52 --> 01:05:59 And then, you know, usually we, we either work through Easter or if it falls
01:05:59 --> 01:06:04 later in the, you know, in the April we'll get out before, but we couldn't leave
01:06:04 --> 01:06:05 without a balanced budget.
01:06:06 --> 01:06:11 So, so give me a number between one and 20.
01:06:12 --> 01:06:19 You know, it's my favorite number. People call me weird, but number 13. 13. Okay.
01:06:19 --> 01:06:24 Do you think there is such a thing as unbiased news or media and why?
01:06:25 --> 01:06:28 Actually do but it's a matter of where that source
01:06:28 --> 01:06:31 is coming from so for example we see
01:06:31 --> 01:06:36 all the time on the internet there's all these there's now
01:06:36 --> 01:06:39 a more concentrated effort for unbiased news
01:06:39 --> 01:06:43 media you'll see something covered in like usa
01:06:43 --> 01:06:47 today or new york times something
01:06:47 --> 01:06:50 that has a more american as bias
01:06:50 --> 01:06:53 but if you see american news covered in like the bbc for
01:06:53 --> 01:06:59 the longest time the bbc would given different sort of uh sort of opinion the
01:06:59 --> 01:07:03 headline would read completely different than what would read on the usa today
01:07:03 --> 01:07:07 and new york times and those are just the big outlets but now there's this i
01:07:07 --> 01:07:11 see all this time on a lot of political youtubers and political.
01:07:11 --> 01:07:14 Podcasters in general promote i don't know what i don't remember what the app
01:07:14 --> 01:07:17 is called but it's designed to let
01:07:17 --> 01:07:20 you track who's more biased what what
01:07:20 --> 01:07:23 media where the media sources what their bias is what
01:07:23 --> 01:07:26 their what their slant is whether it's left-wing
01:07:26 --> 01:07:29 right-wing centrist and that allows for
01:07:29 --> 01:07:32 you the reader the consumer of the
01:07:32 --> 01:07:37 media to make an informed decision based on all right well this is a this is
01:07:37 --> 01:07:42 this story from fox news is telling it one way and a story from nbc is telling
01:07:42 --> 01:07:48 it another and then you've got your middle ground like i've i read a lot I read
01:07:48 --> 01:07:50 a lot of Reason magazine articles,
01:07:50 --> 01:07:52 obviously more online than in paper now.
01:07:52 --> 01:07:58 I find Reason to be one of the more unbiased sources on the internet when it
01:07:58 --> 01:08:03 comes to how things are produced, published.
01:08:04 --> 01:08:08 Reuters, obviously the AP. The AP just takes existing stories and publishing them.
01:08:08 --> 01:08:14 But I think there are unbiased news sources. We as consumers of media,
01:08:14 --> 01:08:23 whether it's in physical newspaper or online media, especially now with the existence of podcasts.
01:08:25 --> 01:08:32 I feel like a lot of people, and this is not because attention spans are short, we've gotten lazy.
01:08:33 --> 01:08:35 A lot of people just aren't past
01:08:35 --> 01:08:38 reading the headline. They just read the headline and read the article.
01:08:39 --> 01:08:44 But if you read the article, you'll find unbiased information,
01:08:44 --> 01:08:49 whereas the headline, you just read the headline and go through it.
01:08:49 --> 01:08:54 So I think I think media can be unbiased, but it's all it's not just on the
01:08:54 --> 01:08:57 media outlet themselves. It's on the consumer to seek that out.
01:08:57 --> 01:09:02 That way they're they have an informed opinion as well. It's a 50 50 split.
01:09:03 --> 01:09:11 OK, you describe yourself as an anarcho capitalist and having radical empathy.
01:09:11 --> 01:09:18 Explain what you mean by that. So the so the radical empathy is more of a jab than anything.
01:09:18 --> 01:09:23 The former chair of the Libertarian Party described libertarians with having
01:09:23 --> 01:09:28 a radical empathy problem and that we want to help everybody as much as we can.
01:09:29 --> 01:09:33 So that was more of a jab than anything. But as an anarcho-capitalist,
01:09:34 --> 01:09:37 I believe this is my personal belief. It's funny.
01:09:38 --> 01:09:41 It's ironic because I work in politics and I vote. but I do believe that the
01:09:41 --> 01:09:49 state is... I always go back to this Max Weber quote from the paper Politics
01:09:49 --> 01:09:51 is a Vocation. The state...
01:09:52 --> 01:09:57 In order for a state, not just a government to exist, but the state itself to
01:09:57 --> 01:10:00 exist, it has to have the monopoly on the use of force.
01:10:02 --> 01:10:07 So I believe the monopoly on use of force from, and I'll use this to keep it
01:10:07 --> 01:10:12 short, but I believe that the monopoly on use of force by the state is illegitimate.
01:10:12 --> 01:10:18 That people have a right to defend themselves, people have a right to defend
01:10:18 --> 01:10:22 their property, people have a right to defend their family and their way of life.
01:10:23 --> 01:10:31 And then the capitalist part is very simple. Well, the anarcho part is also very simple.
01:10:31 --> 01:10:35 I am an anarchist. I believe that the state is...
01:10:36 --> 01:10:40 So there's this misconception about anarchy. When people hear anarchy,
01:10:40 --> 01:10:45 they think no rules. But in reality, anarchy means no rulers.
01:10:45 --> 01:10:47 It's self-government. I self-govern myself.
01:10:48 --> 01:10:51 I self-govern my way of life. I don't tell people what to do,
01:10:51 --> 01:10:59 what to think, but I want to teach them how to think, how to behave in a proper
01:10:59 --> 01:11:02 way that doesn't hurt people at all.
01:11:02 --> 01:11:07 And then capitalists, free market capitalism, the engine that built modern society
01:11:07 --> 01:11:11 for the most part, that's my way of viewing things.
01:11:12 --> 01:11:19 Okay. As a libertarian, what is your assessment of the president's first 100 days?
01:11:19 --> 01:11:28 My assessment would be, to be completely honest, I do find some of the stuff when it comes to does.
01:11:30 --> 01:11:33 I'm going to use air quotes for the abolishment of the Department of Education
01:11:33 --> 01:11:39 those are things that those are policy goals for libertarians in general is
01:11:39 --> 01:11:40 cutting government spending,
01:11:41 --> 01:11:44 abolishing the Department of Education returning that to the states
01:11:44 --> 01:11:49 the states have the authority to set their
01:11:49 --> 01:11:52 own education goals and standards those are policy goals
01:11:52 --> 01:11:55 now going to reality those promised
01:11:55 --> 01:11:59 2 billion sorry two trillion in cuts we're
01:11:59 --> 01:12:02 only getting like 150 billion and the cuts seem
01:12:02 --> 01:12:06 to be more like they're not taking a scalpel
01:12:06 --> 01:12:10 to things they're just what they're
01:12:10 --> 01:12:14 doing they're trying they're trying to be javier mille with the chainsaw but
01:12:14 --> 01:12:18 reality is the chainsaw is getting even the chainsaw was precise even mille's
01:12:18 --> 01:12:22 chainsaw was precise this chainsaw is going everywhere whacking everything and
01:12:22 --> 01:12:26 anything that moves and now you have an ugly bush in your front yard And then
01:12:26 --> 01:12:27 the Department of Education.
01:12:28 --> 01:12:32 The abolishment, again with the air quotes on the abolishment of the Department
01:12:32 --> 01:12:38 of Education, it's a matter of do we, it's only an executive order.
01:12:39 --> 01:12:42 We all know the Department of Education was created by an act of Congress.
01:12:42 --> 01:12:46 It can only be ended with an act of Congress for the president to sign.
01:12:46 --> 01:12:49 All this is doing is defunding it.
01:12:49 --> 01:12:53 It still exists. If a Democrat gets elected in 2028, the first thing that's
01:12:53 --> 01:12:59 going to happen is they're going to restore the Department of Education to its proper glory.
01:12:59 --> 01:13:05 So there's good things, but then there's the obvious bad thing.
01:13:05 --> 01:13:06 There's the due process stuff.
01:13:07 --> 01:13:11 There's the issue with this administration making skirt due process,
01:13:11 --> 01:13:13 skirt the 4th, 5th, and 14th Amendment.
01:13:16 --> 01:13:22 And it screams red flags. There's the deportations to El Salvador.
01:13:22 --> 01:13:26 Whatever you think of, I'm going to call him Mr. Garcia because,
01:13:26 --> 01:13:29 one, he's older than me. And, two, I'm not going to butcher his name.
01:13:30 --> 01:13:35 He could very well be a wife-beating criminal. But the only way to actually
01:13:35 --> 01:13:37 find out is for a proper jury trial.
01:13:38 --> 01:13:43 But I will end on this. There is one other absolute thing that we are happy
01:13:43 --> 01:13:47 with as libertarians, and it's that Ross Ulbricht.
01:13:47 --> 01:13:53 He was the founder of Silk Road The dark web website using Bitcoin and all that
01:13:53 --> 01:13:57 other stuff He was pardoned by this administration On a second day,
01:13:57 --> 01:14:00 not the first like they promised But you know, crying over spilt milk,
01:14:01 --> 01:14:06 Ross Ulbrich was pardoned He did not just have his Sentence commuted So that
01:14:06 --> 01:14:09 is something that we as I will,
01:14:10 --> 01:14:13 Fight tooth and nail this, there's not a libertarian Out there that is unhappy
01:14:13 --> 01:14:16 that Ross Ulbrich Is a free man today Yeah.
01:14:17 --> 01:14:21 So you're the libertarian position dealing with.
01:14:22 --> 01:14:25 Like the Bitcoin and all that stuff is like, let it happen. Just,
01:14:26 --> 01:14:31 you know, let it roll and see what goes instead of either trying to regulate
01:14:31 --> 01:14:35 it to death or just over-regulate it, period.
01:14:36 --> 01:14:41 Correct. So Bitcoin, so a lot of the problem with Bitcoin and a lot of cryptocurrencies
01:14:41 --> 01:14:44 right now is the finance bureau has got a hold of it.
01:14:44 --> 01:14:49 It has completely turned what Bitcoin and crypto is supposed to be on it.
01:14:49 --> 01:14:52 It's supposed to be an alternative currency to the dollar you're supposed to
01:14:52 --> 01:14:56 be able to use it the same way you use it for a dollar you would use a dollar
01:14:56 --> 01:14:59 to buy like a drink or something like that instead finance pros have got a hold
01:14:59 --> 01:15:05 of it like it and now crypto is becoming something of a just another investment
01:15:05 --> 01:15:09 something to something to add to your portfolio when in reality
01:15:09 --> 01:15:12 back in so back in 2013 there was this man he
01:15:12 --> 01:15:15 was able to he was the first man to actually purchase something with bitcoin and
01:15:15 --> 01:15:20 he bought two domino's pizzas for delivery using bitcoin that's what we're that's
01:15:20 --> 01:15:24 what we as libertarians want from bitcoin and cryptocurrency we want you to
01:15:24 --> 01:15:29 be able to if you have it if you have it in like your your crypto wallet you
01:15:29 --> 01:15:33 want to and you want to spend it or you want to save it for like if something
01:15:33 --> 01:15:35 goes bad like we hit a recession.
01:15:36 --> 01:15:41 Because there's there is the thing about bitcoin especially is there's a finite
01:15:41 --> 01:15:45 amount whereas compared to the u.s dollar the government can just print u.s
01:15:45 --> 01:15:50 dollars whereas there's only a fine amount of Bitcoin that can be mined.
01:15:50 --> 01:15:55 So that's supposed to be the hedge against inflation, supposed to be able to,
01:15:55 --> 01:16:01 if the dollar dips really low, compared to its value, the more valuable Bitcoin
01:16:01 --> 01:16:03 is to use as a currency itself.
01:16:04 --> 01:16:10 Okay. So talk to us about what is the Liberty Policy Alliance?
01:16:10 --> 01:16:13 Why did you feel that you needed to start this?
01:16:13 --> 01:16:19 And what is the organization's mission? So I started the Liberty Policy Alliance
01:16:19 --> 01:16:22 towards the end of the 2022 campaign cycle because I wanted,
01:16:22 --> 01:16:27 I worked in, I've worked in grassroots for the past few years.
01:16:27 --> 01:16:30 I, in college, I was a college, I was a college Republican.
01:16:30 --> 01:16:37 Being a college Republican soured on me and, and exposing myself to party politics
01:16:37 --> 01:16:39 soured me and I became a libertarian at that point.
01:16:39 --> 01:16:42 But i we started my
01:16:42 --> 01:16:46 my friends as a way of advocating for libertarian
01:16:46 --> 01:16:52 positions at the state and local level rather than just the federal level because
01:16:52 --> 01:16:58 a lot is working so federal politics congress getting an act passed through
01:16:58 --> 01:17:03 congress is like pulling teeth sometimes and a lot of times it's already if
01:17:03 --> 01:17:06 something's passing congress it's predetermined by the lobbyists,
01:17:06 --> 01:17:13 and the leadership handing the bill to whoever, telling them you're voting yes
01:17:13 --> 01:17:15 on this in a couple of hours.
01:17:15 --> 01:17:22 At the state and local level, it's a lot more involved. You can get a lot more
01:17:22 --> 01:17:23 involved at the state and local level.
01:17:24 --> 01:17:28 You meet with your state rep or your state senator. You tell them,
01:17:28 --> 01:17:32 hey, I'm very concerned with this. You can show up. It's a lot easier to show up and testify.
01:17:32 --> 01:17:36 In the state of Georgia, if you see a bill coming through, It's very easy to
01:17:36 --> 01:17:39 go on the legislature's website.
01:17:39 --> 01:17:43 All right, this bill is having a meeting in this committee at this day and this time.
01:17:43 --> 01:17:49 Go downtown, pay your 14 bucks or however much to park, walk in,
01:17:49 --> 01:17:51 testify for or against the bill.
01:17:52 --> 01:17:59 And you're a lot more involved. So what we seek to do is using our experience in grassroots.
01:18:00 --> 01:18:04 I would, when I worked for my previous organization, we doorknocked.
01:18:04 --> 01:18:06 We got volunteers out and we door knocked.
01:18:07 --> 01:18:13 If there was a bill in session we didn't like, we would target specific legislators
01:18:13 --> 01:18:17 based on certain formula stuff
01:18:17 --> 01:18:20 and whatnot, and we'll go into the nitty-grit, the science behind it.
01:18:20 --> 01:18:23 But we would target specific legislators if they
01:18:23 --> 01:18:26 were on the committee and we would target their
01:18:26 --> 01:18:29 district we would target their voters we would knock on the door be like
01:18:29 --> 01:18:34 hey we would and we would tell them this bill is in committee right now your
01:18:34 --> 01:18:40 your state rep your state senator they're voting they they're a they're a potential
01:18:40 --> 01:18:45 vote they're a potential swing vote yes or no and we really want them to vote
01:18:45 --> 01:18:48 yes on this because we feel like this or that or the other.
01:18:50 --> 01:18:54 One example, I was knocking in Alabama in 2021 and we got told.
01:18:56 --> 01:19:00 The state rep who was in the district we were knocking in told the bill's sponsor
01:19:00 --> 01:19:03 that they can call off the attack dogs, I'll vote yes on the bill.
01:19:03 --> 01:19:07 So we use what is called the confrontation model.
01:19:07 --> 01:19:12 The idea is to use what is called the confrontation model of politics to get
01:19:12 --> 01:19:14 down into these districts.
01:19:15 --> 01:19:21 Knock on these doors, and tell the voter exactly what's going on,
01:19:21 --> 01:19:25 creating a more active constituent in the process.
01:19:25 --> 01:19:28 The idea is to give the power to the constituent.
01:19:28 --> 01:19:34 It's not necessarily just to be an asshole to these state reps and state senators.
01:19:34 --> 01:19:40 It's to get their constituents more involved, get them to realize that,
01:19:40 --> 01:19:45 hey, just because you vote twice a year in even-numbered years.
01:19:45 --> 01:19:50 Well, in a state like Mississippi, it's odd-numbered years for the state legislature.
01:19:50 --> 01:19:55 But in the state, like here in Georgia, you've got the midterms,
01:19:55 --> 01:19:59 obviously, and then the regular election cycles.
01:19:59 --> 01:20:03 But the idea is to get people involved, not just during the primary,
01:20:04 --> 01:20:06 voting in the primary and voting on a general election day.
01:20:07 --> 01:20:12 The idea is to get them involved at least during the months that the legislature are in session.
01:20:12 --> 01:20:17 Because I believe it's, I'm going to butcher this Mark Twain quote,
01:20:17 --> 01:20:22 so forgive me, because of all the things I can remember, it's not this particular quote.
01:20:22 --> 01:20:27 It's the most dangerous time for man's liberty is when the legislature is in session.
01:20:28 --> 01:20:33 So the idea here, like I said, and I'll close on this, the idea here is to get
01:20:33 --> 01:20:41 an active constituency so there's not just malaise from between primary to general election year.
01:20:41 --> 01:20:45 And then all of a sudden, the state legislature is in session and this bill
01:20:45 --> 01:20:51 is passing and people are like, oh, no, I didn't know. I didn't realize that
01:20:51 --> 01:20:54 my state legislature, my state legislator voted for this bad bill.
01:20:55 --> 01:20:59 So the idea is that's the general idea. They get involved.
01:21:00 --> 01:21:05 Grassroots involved, get voters involved, get good or get good legislation passed
01:21:05 --> 01:21:08 and bad legislation killed. Yeah.
01:21:08 --> 01:21:13 Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of times, you know, from my experience,
01:21:13 --> 01:21:17 a lot of times bills get a life of their own and
01:21:17 --> 01:21:20 even the most diligent organization may not
01:21:20 --> 01:21:28 see it coming oh yeah it was one year we were a bill came up to start a pilot
01:21:28 --> 01:21:35 program to allow hunters to bait deer and they had picked like i guess three
01:21:35 --> 01:21:39 counties out of 82 in mississippi to to
01:21:39 --> 01:21:43 do that and boy oh boy we all of
01:21:43 --> 01:21:46 a sudden it was like that bill made out a committee made it on the floor.
01:21:47 --> 01:21:51 Next thing you know, we're on the front page of the sports section of the newspaper.
01:21:51 --> 01:21:56 You know, it's like every legislator wanted to have their counties or their
01:21:56 --> 01:21:58 districts covered under the program.
01:21:59 --> 01:22:02 People were filling the galleries. It was absolutely amazing.
01:22:03 --> 01:22:07 And I'm not a hunter. So that was like.
01:22:08 --> 01:22:13 We really like getting this emotional about this, you know, but it,
01:22:13 --> 01:22:17 you know, it just took a life of its own and nobody saw that coming.
01:22:17 --> 01:22:22 It was just like, okay, well, wildlife fishery wants to try it. Let's see what happens.
01:22:22 --> 01:22:27 And then it just catapulted. So even, even with your most diligent efforts on
01:22:27 --> 01:22:30 it, sometimes you're going to miss stuff. Yeah. There's not enough.
01:22:31 --> 01:22:35 There's not enough time in the world and there's not enough people to cover.
01:22:35 --> 01:22:38 There's never enough people to cover like every nook and cranny.
01:22:39 --> 01:22:42 Sometimes things just stick up on you for the good and the bad.
01:22:43 --> 01:22:50 Yeah. On your website, it states that y'all are pro-Second Amendment in favor
01:22:50 --> 01:22:55 of legalized marijuana consumption and unrestricted free speech.
01:22:55 --> 01:23:00 So let's talk about that. So you don't want any laws concerning gun ownership in America?
01:23:01 --> 01:23:05 Yes. We are a Second Amendment absolutist organization.
01:23:05 --> 01:23:10 You'll see on our social media that we talk a lot about abolishing the National
01:23:10 --> 01:23:12 Firearms Act, abolishing the ATF.
01:23:12 --> 01:23:20 We believe that the Second Amendment and the Bill of Rights in general are negative
01:23:20 --> 01:23:23 rights, which means that these rights aren't granted.
01:23:23 --> 01:23:27 The Constitution is a codification of negative rights.
01:23:27 --> 01:23:35 These rights aren't granted by government or by God, that these are inherent
01:23:35 --> 01:23:37 to individuals by birth.
01:23:38 --> 01:23:44 The Second Amendment exists as a codification of the right to self-defense by any means necessary.
01:23:44 --> 01:23:50 Now a lot of people will take that means to oh you want people to own tanks
01:23:50 --> 01:23:53 and jets and all this other stuff people obviously take the very,
01:23:54 --> 01:23:58 oh you will hear that and they'll automatically go to that position and to that
01:23:58 --> 01:24:02 I say well if you can afford it by all means if you can afford a tank if you
01:24:02 --> 01:24:06 can afford a jet if you can afford the fuel by all means,
01:24:06 --> 01:24:11 I don't have that kind of money but and then but believe that.
01:24:12 --> 01:24:17 And right now with the AR-15 talk, the assault weapon ban talk,
01:24:17 --> 01:24:23 it's a lot of low-hanging fruit for gun ownership in general.
01:24:23 --> 01:24:28 But we truly do believe that the right to self-defense is an absolute,
01:24:28 --> 01:24:35 the right to self-defense of one's family is an absolute, and that every American man, woman,
01:24:36 --> 01:24:41 child, whether they're gay, straight, transsexual,
01:24:42 --> 01:24:44 black, white, Hispanic, doesn't matter.
01:24:44 --> 01:24:50 You have a right to defend yourself by any means necessary, and there should
01:24:50 --> 01:24:53 be no restriction on your ability to do so.
01:24:54 --> 01:24:59 So what's your interpretation of the words well-regulated in that amendment?
01:24:59 --> 01:25:05 In the traditionalist sense, the words well-regulated mean that well-kept,
01:25:05 --> 01:25:08 well-made, up to standards and stuff like that.
01:25:08 --> 01:25:13 I know a lot of people look at the words well-regulated and think modern context
01:25:13 --> 01:25:21 of regulation, regulatory body, and government checks and balances on stuff like that.
01:25:21 --> 01:25:30 But in the context of 1783 to 1789, when the Articles of Confederation and the
01:25:30 --> 01:25:31 Constitution were being written.
01:25:32 --> 01:25:38 Well-regulated was meant to mean that a person be well-trained,
01:25:38 --> 01:25:44 that it is the job of the individual to be well-trained, well-kept up to date,
01:25:44 --> 01:25:47 that they're required to do their maintenance on their firearm.
01:25:47 --> 01:25:51 They're required to keep up
01:25:51 --> 01:25:57 to date on their own training, their own marksmanship, that sort of stuff.
01:25:57 --> 01:26:04 While regulated in the modern context does not suit when the Constitution was written.
01:26:05 --> 01:26:10 So do you think all 50 states in the federal government will legalize marijuana
01:26:10 --> 01:26:12 and what would be the benefit?
01:26:12 --> 01:26:18 In an ideal world, yes. Unfortunately, we have a lot of red states,
01:26:18 --> 01:26:24 a lot of Southern Baptists, especially who view marijuana as this boogeyman.
01:26:24 --> 01:26:32 Here in Georgia, we just passed this THC, the limitization of THC in beverages
01:26:32 --> 01:26:34 and carts and whatnot that's going to harm a lot of businesses.
01:26:34 --> 01:26:37 Something similar is going on in texas because
01:26:37 --> 01:26:40 i'm because unfortunately we have a lot of drug warriors we
01:26:40 --> 01:26:43 have a lot of people who view marijuana as this
01:26:43 --> 01:26:46 the as the devil's was this gateway
01:26:46 --> 01:26:49 drug ideally i would love for all 50
01:26:49 --> 01:26:52 states and the federal government to bare minimum the bare
01:26:52 --> 01:26:56 minimum i want from the federal government is to deschedule marijuana
01:26:56 --> 01:26:59 right now marijuana is a schedule one drug but apparently
01:26:59 --> 01:27:01 fentanyl is just this huge problem fentanyl i
01:27:01 --> 01:27:05 believe is a schedule three drug at the moment i'm you
01:27:05 --> 01:27:08 you put the the logic in your
01:27:08 --> 01:27:11 head and you're just like how does this make sense how
01:27:11 --> 01:27:14 does how is it that fentanyl is this super
01:27:14 --> 01:27:17 dangerous drug that is used in medicine by the way there's research applications
01:27:17 --> 01:27:20 for that's how the schedule is that's how
01:27:20 --> 01:27:25 the dea schedule is based based off of is there a medical application for it
01:27:25 --> 01:27:29 or is there research applications for it fentanyl is i believe schedule three
01:27:29 --> 01:27:35 and so but ideally i would love for at least marijuana to get descheduled because
01:27:35 --> 01:27:39 at the federal level descheduling means a lot less severe sentence.
01:27:40 --> 01:27:43 For or even a rescheduling means a lot less severe sentence the difference between
01:27:43 --> 01:27:49 schedule one and schedule two is at least five to ten years in prison descheduling
01:27:49 --> 01:27:52 would mean it's barely a misdemeanor at the federal level,
01:27:53 --> 01:27:57 Right now we have 24 states, including two red states, Missouri and Ohio,
01:27:57 --> 01:28:00 that have legalized recreational marijuana as well as medicinal marijuana.
01:28:01 --> 01:28:06 In 2023, Oklahoma had the chance to legalize recreational.
01:28:06 --> 01:28:12 That failed on the ballot because it was a ballot initiative in March,
01:28:13 --> 01:28:15 and March is where ballot initiatives go to die.
01:28:15 --> 01:28:21 So but i i think a lot of even i see it all the time on like social media and when i'm talking to.
01:28:22 --> 01:28:25 Republicans oh the drug warrior
01:28:25 --> 01:28:28 mindset the the one that is currently going
01:28:28 --> 01:28:32 on in the legislatures in these red state legislatures it's
01:28:32 --> 01:28:35 dying out amongst even older republicans the
01:28:35 --> 01:28:39 very the idea that marijuana should remain illegal
01:28:39 --> 01:28:42 like bare minimum a lot of republicans i've
01:28:42 --> 01:28:46 talked to in in real life in social
01:28:46 --> 01:28:49 media and just all around favor at
01:28:49 --> 01:28:52 least medical medical marijuana there's we
01:28:52 --> 01:28:56 we know the research applications are there so i'm
01:28:56 --> 01:29:01 hopeful that in the next 50 years we can at least have 50 states in a federal
01:29:01 --> 01:29:08 and a federal government that has as legal medical marijuana and if not de-scheduled
01:29:08 --> 01:29:13 at least decriminal decriminalized at least descheduled marijuana from the DEA schedule.
01:29:13 --> 01:29:18 Why do you think it is important to have unrestricted free speech?
01:29:19 --> 01:29:23 Again, this goes back to the Constitution being a, the Bill of Rights being
01:29:23 --> 01:29:24 a charter of negative liberties.
01:29:25 --> 01:29:30 The idea that you have a right to, government has no right to restrict what
01:29:30 --> 01:29:34 you have to say, what you can and can't say, and whatnot.
01:29:34 --> 01:29:37 This goes down to requiring a permit. i
01:29:37 --> 01:29:41 don't think you should be required to have a permit to protest like
01:29:41 --> 01:29:44 a lot of colleges when i was going to college our college
01:29:44 --> 01:29:48 required you to when i was an undergrad our college required you to get a permit
01:29:48 --> 01:29:52 and give like three days notice i think that's absolutely unacceptable if you
01:29:52 --> 01:29:56 want to protest if you want to if you and your friends want to show up with
01:29:56 --> 01:30:01 signs that call donald trump the devil or joe biden great satan you should be
01:30:01 --> 01:30:04 able to do that whenever wherever and not face any,
01:30:04 --> 01:30:07 this also goes to being able to criticize the state of
01:30:07 --> 01:30:10 israel which we know is a hot topic right now if you're and regardless
01:30:10 --> 01:30:15 of whether you're an immigrant or on a green card or something like that you
01:30:15 --> 01:30:20 should be able to once you are once you are within the borders of the united
01:30:20 --> 01:30:25 states because the united the united states constitution is just this wonderful
01:30:25 --> 01:30:29 are we it says reconnecting.
01:30:30 --> 01:30:34 But the United States Constitution is just wonderful. It's not even the first of its kind.
01:30:34 --> 01:30:38 It's just the one that perfected it. The Magna Carta was sort of the first one.
01:30:38 --> 01:30:41 The first sort of charter of negative liberties that said, man,
01:30:42 --> 01:30:47 it has this man, I'm using man in the general sense, has these inalienable rights.
01:30:47 --> 01:30:50 But the First Amendment, the First Amendment is absolute.
01:30:51 --> 01:30:54 If you want to get, if you want to criticize the United States government,
01:30:54 --> 01:30:57 if you want to criticize the state of Israel while you are within the United
01:30:57 --> 01:31:00 States borders, you should be free to do so regardless.
01:31:00 --> 01:31:08 As long as you are not calling for violence on people causing a riot or anything,
01:31:08 --> 01:31:15 the threshold for saying you're causing a riot should be at a breaking point.
01:31:15 --> 01:31:20 It shouldn't be easy to break. It should be like, here's the floor and the ceiling
01:31:20 --> 01:31:25 is way, way up there for saying you're trying to cause a riot and therefore you could be arrested.
01:31:25 --> 01:31:30 So I think because being able to criticize the government is,
01:31:31 --> 01:31:34 something that's just, I feel like it's just a bare minimum,
01:31:34 --> 01:31:37 you should be able to criticize your government for when it's doing wrong just
01:31:37 --> 01:31:40 the same way you should be able to criticize you should praise your government
01:31:40 --> 01:31:43 for when it actually does something right it goes.
01:31:45 --> 01:31:50 Without saying that free speech is the United
01:31:50 --> 01:31:54 States has I won't say we've perfected the
01:31:54 --> 01:31:58 concept of free speech but we very much have we
01:31:58 --> 01:32:01 we should be setting the example for the
01:32:01 --> 01:32:04 rest of the world on how free speech how free
01:32:04 --> 01:32:08 people should be how it
01:32:08 --> 01:32:11 should be yeah so you
01:32:11 --> 01:32:14 know but you did say there is a line it's just got to
01:32:14 --> 01:32:17 be a long long way before you cross it yes
01:32:17 --> 01:32:20 because at some point because if you're
01:32:20 --> 01:32:23 once you start actually threatening violence against
01:32:23 --> 01:32:26 somebody that's when you start like the
01:32:26 --> 01:32:30 whole concept of your rights your rights
01:32:30 --> 01:32:34 and when you're when your hand when your fist meets my face essentially that's
01:32:34 --> 01:32:39 that's the line like once you start throwing punches once you start like harming
01:32:39 --> 01:32:43 people throwing glass throwing rocks at windows that people's businesses try
01:32:43 --> 01:32:47 causing disturbances to people's livelihood that's when it stops being free
01:32:47 --> 01:32:49 speech. That's when it stops being that.
01:32:49 --> 01:32:52 But that line should be that. That's where I feel like that's where the line is.
01:32:53 --> 01:32:56 Once you start, once you start getting violent with somebody,
01:32:56 --> 01:32:58 that's where the line. Yeah.
01:32:58 --> 01:33:01 So the threat of violence. I got you.
01:33:02 --> 01:33:06 Your organization states that civil asset forfeiture is unconstitutional.
01:33:07 --> 01:33:11 And y'all have lobbied the Georgia state legislature to outlaw the practice.
01:33:11 --> 01:33:16 Explain to the listeners what exactly you're talking about and give us an update
01:33:16 --> 01:33:17 concerning the legislation?
01:33:18 --> 01:33:22 So, unfortunately, we haven't been able to get any legislation that's,
01:33:23 --> 01:33:25 the legislature yet but so civil asset.
01:33:25 --> 01:33:29 Forfeiture is a practice that has come out of the drug war it is
01:33:29 --> 01:33:32 essentially a misinterpretation of
01:33:32 --> 01:33:35 the takings clause under the fourth fifth and fourth fifth
01:33:35 --> 01:33:38 and fourteenth amendment of due process essentially what happens is.
01:33:38 --> 01:33:42 Say you're trapped i'm traveling from georgia to.
01:33:42 --> 01:33:46 Alabama or mississippi and i'm stopped along the way i
01:33:46 --> 01:33:49 have ten thousand dollars in cash in my
01:33:49 --> 01:33:52 car at that very moment the police officer sees
01:33:52 --> 01:33:55 that cash and under quote-unquote probable
01:33:55 --> 01:33:58 cause says i believe that this this ten
01:33:58 --> 01:34:01 thousand dollars cash is being used in the commission of the crime i
01:34:01 --> 01:34:05 am going to take this using civil asset forfeiture and
01:34:05 --> 01:34:08 we're you will here is
01:34:08 --> 01:34:11 a receipt for this and we
01:34:11 --> 01:34:14 will you essentially it flips the
01:34:14 --> 01:34:17 concept of innocent until proven guilty on its head you are
01:34:17 --> 01:34:19 now guilty until proven innocent you are the
01:34:19 --> 01:34:24 one responsible for going to court and proving that that
01:34:24 --> 01:34:26 ten thousand dollars is not being used in
01:34:26 --> 01:34:30 the commission of the crime that you had a legitimate purpose for using
01:34:30 --> 01:34:33 that ten for having that ten thousand dollars add you
01:34:33 --> 01:34:36 on you at that time and you were.
01:34:36 --> 01:34:39 You were now fighting for not losing
01:34:39 --> 01:34:42 your life savings a lot of times and it's not just cash
01:34:42 --> 01:34:46 that gets taken a lot of times it's cars homes there's
01:34:46 --> 01:34:49 plenty of stories in states all across the country
01:34:49 --> 01:34:53 where people's cars homes just
01:34:53 --> 01:34:56 about anything that isn't nailed down to the floor gets
01:34:56 --> 01:35:02 taken under under civil asset and there are plenty of stories where the threshold
01:35:02 --> 01:35:09 for your local so the threshold for the local police department is somewhat
01:35:09 --> 01:35:15 high so what they'll do is they'll call the dea and or they'll call in the FBI somebody.
01:35:15 --> 01:35:19 Federal agency and under federal guidelines they'll
01:35:19 --> 01:35:23 get a kickback of they'll have
01:35:23 --> 01:35:26 the FBI or whatever federal agency has jurisdiction
01:35:26 --> 01:35:32 do the takings under civil asset for Pachero and the police department will
01:35:32 --> 01:35:40 get a kickback of anywhere from 20 to 80 percent so the practice is immoral
01:35:40 --> 01:35:43 it creates this sort of Like I said,
01:35:43 --> 01:35:45 it creates this, it flips due process on its head.
01:35:46 --> 01:35:49 So instead of innocent till proven guilty, you are now guilty till proven innocent.
01:35:50 --> 01:35:58 And it creates perverse incentives for police to, these police for profit incentives as well.
01:35:59 --> 01:36:05 Yeah, because one of the things, you know, I worked for the ACLU for a couple
01:36:05 --> 01:36:06 of years in Mississippi,
01:36:06 --> 01:36:13 and it's been a decade ago we were dealing with this issue and trying to get
01:36:13 --> 01:36:16 the legislature to do something with it.
01:36:16 --> 01:36:21 And, you know, there's two things that were really, really that stood out.
01:36:22 --> 01:36:28 One is that, like you said, people are found guilty when they put the probable
01:36:28 --> 01:36:32 cause instead of total, you know, proper due process.
01:36:32 --> 01:36:35 And if they are proven innocent, they don't get that.
01:36:35 --> 01:36:39 Most of them don't get that property back. It's gone because they've auctioned
01:36:39 --> 01:36:42 it off or if it's cash, they've used it or whatever.
01:36:42 --> 01:36:46 And then the other thing that was really striking, there's a police,
01:36:46 --> 01:36:51 there's a city right on I-20 in Rankin County named Richland.
01:36:51 --> 01:36:56 And Richland, Mississippi, built a brand new police station,
01:36:57 --> 01:37:01 $1.8 million, strictly off civil asset forfeiture funds.
01:37:01 --> 01:37:10 So, like you said, there is an extreme incentive for law enforcement to do this.
01:37:10 --> 01:37:18 And so I found it interesting that your organization is on top of it and trying to address it.
01:37:18 --> 01:37:22 Yeah like i said we're we're a
01:37:22 --> 01:37:25 liberty we're a strictly libertarian organization we're it's
01:37:25 --> 01:37:28 not a matter of left or right it's a matter of right and wrong authoritarian
01:37:28 --> 01:37:35 and being anti-authoritarian we don't care if it's our motto and this took it
01:37:35 --> 01:37:39 some time to flesh out for a bit and it's very it's short and it's simple and
01:37:39 --> 01:37:44 sweet it's we endorse ideas not people we won't you'll never see us endorse,
01:37:44 --> 01:37:48 very rarely actually will you see us endorse a candidate for office.
01:37:48 --> 01:37:54 But they have to make strict, strict, strict, strict, strict,
01:37:54 --> 01:37:54 strict, strict, strict, strict,
01:37:55 --> 01:37:59 our principles it can't be a matter of just oh we think this person will pass
01:37:59 --> 01:38:03 one or two things no you have to be for if we endorse a candidate it's because
01:38:03 --> 01:38:07 we believe that they'll they'll fight for a hundred percent of our value but
01:38:07 --> 01:38:11 we endorse ideas because going back to the first thing we opened up with like
01:38:11 --> 01:38:15 you can't trust politicians but you can trust the ideals of liberty and.
01:38:16 --> 01:38:21 The simple matter of the fact is as long as we don't care where a bill comes
01:38:21 --> 01:38:26 from when it comes to being a pro-libertarian, pro-libertarian ideal,
01:38:27 --> 01:38:28 pro-ideals of liberty,
01:38:29 --> 01:38:33 if we want it passed, we will fight for it. We will endorse it.
01:38:33 --> 01:38:36 We will do grassroots. We will do mail.
01:38:37 --> 01:38:44 We'll go out into wherever, and we will talk to the people about getting this bill passed.
01:38:44 --> 01:38:49 And we'll do the same for anti-freedom, anti-libertarian, anti-liberty bills
01:38:49 --> 01:38:53 as well. If we want to kill a bill, we'll do the exact same thing.
01:38:53 --> 01:38:57 But the idea is that we endorse ideas, not people, because politicians will
01:38:57 --> 01:39:01 fail you, but the ideals of liberty will not.
01:39:01 --> 01:39:05 The ideal for a free society that is built on trust.
01:39:07 --> 01:39:10 Life, liberty, the ideals of life, liberty, and property,
01:39:10 --> 01:39:15 the ideals of liberty, the ideal world that the founders envisioned, obviously,
01:39:16 --> 01:39:21 so far out, you can't envision too much in 1776, but you have an idea of what
01:39:21 --> 01:39:25 you think the country should be like in 200-300 years from now.
01:39:25 --> 01:39:27 That's what we're kind of striving.
01:39:28 --> 01:39:30 That's what we're striving for. We're striving for a free world.
01:39:30 --> 01:39:34 We're striving for a world where people, regardless of race,
01:39:34 --> 01:39:38 religion, are able to live their life to the best of their abilities,
01:39:38 --> 01:39:41 defend their life, liberty, and property to the best of their abilities.
01:39:41 --> 01:39:47 And that means going after Republican initiatives like civil law enforcement
01:39:47 --> 01:39:50 initiatives, like civil asset forfeiture and qualified immunity.
01:39:51 --> 01:39:58 So be it. So, I think you gave an example of what you think was government overreach
01:39:58 --> 01:40:02 that you see with the Trump administration when you're talking about the due process issue.
01:40:03 --> 01:40:08 What was an overreach that you saw in the Biden administration?
01:40:08 --> 01:40:13 So the Biden administration will tackle the Second Amendment stuff directly first.
01:40:14 --> 01:40:19 Well, probably only because, but the Biden administration was very heavy handed
01:40:19 --> 01:40:24 with what we view as anti-Second Amendment legislation and regulations.
01:40:24 --> 01:40:28 There was the Safer Communities Act, which tried to restrict firearm purchase
01:40:28 --> 01:40:30 and sales. There was the Constance.
01:40:32 --> 01:40:40 They had the executive committee with David Hogg and all the other pro-gun...
01:40:40 --> 01:40:45 I won't call them... I would be nice enough to call David Hogg a pro-gun control activist.
01:40:45 --> 01:40:50 I feel it, but that's the respectful term I'll use for people like him.
01:40:51 --> 01:40:57 There was constant suing. There was the use of the ATF to make rules through
01:40:57 --> 01:41:00 the federal register on pistol braces and stuff like that.
01:41:00 --> 01:41:03 Some of the stuff, like the pistol brace and the bump stock rule through the
01:41:03 --> 01:41:10 ATF, was actually prior Trump administration rules that the Biden administration
01:41:10 --> 01:41:11 went ahead and codified.
01:41:11 --> 01:41:17 So that was some of the stuff. The Biden administration was very heavy-handed
01:41:17 --> 01:41:25 about blocking aid grants with gun control, with pushing gun control legislation.
01:41:27 --> 01:41:31 So we were very much against that sort of stuff. And then in terms of fighting
01:41:31 --> 01:41:36 the drug war, the Biden administration, I pardoned a lot of people towards the end there,
01:41:37 --> 01:41:45 and made promises and promises about bare minimum rescheduling marijuana or
01:41:45 --> 01:41:47 even descheduling, but never fell through.
01:41:47 --> 01:41:53 So we were constantly on in our short time for the well, by the end of we only
01:41:53 --> 01:41:57 had we only existed for the latter half of the Biden term.
01:41:57 --> 01:42:03 So it was very much like what you saw on for us against the Biden administration is what you got.
01:42:04 --> 01:42:09 But with the Trump administration, we're going to have the full four years of
01:42:09 --> 01:42:14 the second Trump term to really go after, and we'll have the full four to eight
01:42:14 --> 01:42:16 years of future Democratic term to go after them.
01:42:16 --> 01:42:22 But the Biden administration, we were definitely on them about their anti-Second
01:42:22 --> 01:42:27 Amendment policies, a lot of the continuation of the drug war policies,
01:42:27 --> 01:42:29 the use of civil asset forfeiture,
01:42:29 --> 01:42:32 defense of qualified immunity, and stuff like that.
01:42:32 --> 01:42:36 So we're hopeful that in the future,
01:42:36 --> 01:42:40 because we are not generally involved in federal, we don't want to get involved
01:42:40 --> 01:42:45 in federal politics, we will if we have to, because we view as getting involved
01:42:45 --> 01:42:48 in the state and local level is a lot more effective.
01:42:49 --> 01:42:54 And a restoration of the 10th and view it as a restoration of the 10th amendment,
01:42:54 --> 01:43:01 get the states more power within the government itself rather than just this
01:43:01 --> 01:43:03 overarching federal government.
01:43:03 --> 01:43:07 We want to return, essentially, I'll wrap it up with this, I'll end my plan here.
01:43:07 --> 01:43:11 We want to return to federalism. We want the states to be able to have distinct
01:43:11 --> 01:43:14 roles and then the federal government to have its distinct roles.
01:43:14 --> 01:43:20 The federal government exists to exists within the bounds of the Constitution,
01:43:20 --> 01:43:25 within the amendments, and then the state governments exist within their defined
01:43:25 --> 01:43:28 roles, within their state constitutions and their state legislate.
01:43:29 --> 01:43:35 So, last question, will there be a viable libertarian candidate in the 2028
01:43:35 --> 01:43:37 presidential election? I'm hopeful.
01:43:37 --> 01:43:40 And the reason I'm hopeful is right now in the state of Georgia,
01:43:40 --> 01:43:44 Well, unfortunately, in the state of Georgia, we we lost ballot access.
01:43:45 --> 01:43:49 And that's not not to the candidates fault. That is, that is just,
01:43:49 --> 01:43:55 there is a myriad of things that happen that cause the Libertarian Party in
01:43:55 --> 01:43:58 Georgia to lose their lose ballot access.
01:43:59 --> 01:44:06 And so now there are petition drives going on. I'll plug in the Libertarian Party of Georgia.
01:44:06 --> 01:44:10 There's multiple ballot initiative drives going on right now.
01:44:10 --> 01:44:15 There's going to be one in Cartersville, Georgia, May the 17th, 4 p.m.
01:44:15 --> 01:44:17 There are going to be a lot of lovely Libertarians out there.
01:44:17 --> 01:44:26 I ask that anybody who talks to them signs the petition because having viable third.
01:44:26 --> 01:44:35 Fourth, fifth option is essential as the duopoly tries to consolidate more and more power.
01:44:35 --> 01:44:38 But given how ballot access laws
01:44:38 --> 01:44:41 work how tirelessly both Republicans and
01:44:41 --> 01:44:44 Democrats work to keep competing parties off
01:44:44 --> 01:44:47 the ballot viability is not a matter I don't
01:44:47 --> 01:44:51 think viability is a matter of the candidate itself it's a matter of the laws
01:44:51 --> 01:44:56 at hand if we can curtail if we can strip down these ballot access laws allow
01:44:56 --> 01:45:02 for the libertarian party the green party the constitution party whatever political
01:45:02 --> 01:45:04 party people want to start to be able to get
01:45:05 --> 01:45:08 on the ballot give people more options
01:45:08 --> 01:45:11 because we live in again we live in this capitalist society where
01:45:11 --> 01:45:14 we always tell people more the more
01:45:14 --> 01:45:17 choices the better yet when it comes to the ballot box
01:45:17 --> 01:45:22 we're stocked through with vanilla and vanilla beans like people
01:45:22 --> 01:45:25 are often off and i hear all the time
01:45:25 --> 01:45:30 oh why isn't the third why isn't a third party viable oh why are your candidates
01:45:30 --> 01:45:34 like this something like it's not just the candidate it's not just it's not
01:45:34 --> 01:45:40 just the voter the the party itself the mechanisms within the party it's quite
01:45:40 --> 01:45:44 literal it's quite literally all these state ballot initiative ballot laws that.
01:45:45 --> 01:45:49 Keep third and fourth parties and independents off
01:45:49 --> 01:45:51 the off the ballot we saw this with rfk jr there's a
01:45:51 --> 01:45:54 reason the reason he dropped out and endorsed trump wasn't
01:45:54 --> 01:45:57 because of some like well obviously
01:45:57 --> 01:46:01 it was some mac and it was some promise of the hhs
01:46:01 --> 01:46:04 position but he wasn't
01:46:04 --> 01:46:07 he was there was no way for him without as
01:46:07 --> 01:46:11 an independent to be able to continue to afford fight trying
01:46:11 --> 01:46:14 to fight to get on all these ballots trying to fight all
01:46:14 --> 01:46:17 these ballot access laws he did well for himself in
01:46:17 --> 01:46:21 the end but it was just not sustainable in in
01:46:21 --> 01:46:28 2026 and 2028 for libertarians greens to be have successful because right now
01:46:28 --> 01:46:39 i for a party to get even minor party status they have to get 5% of the vote in a given election.
01:46:40 --> 01:46:46 1% just to stay on a ballot. In Georgia, it's 1% of a statewide race.
01:46:47 --> 01:46:56 5% in any of the 50 states gets you minor party status in that state.
01:46:56 --> 01:47:01 So the goal in the future,
01:47:02 --> 01:47:05 is fighting for better ballot access laws and won't
01:47:05 --> 01:47:09 go into the rank i don't think we'll have time to go into rank choice i
01:47:09 --> 01:47:12 will not give a position i will not give a position my
01:47:12 --> 01:47:16 i won't give my personal position or the organization's position on rank choice
01:47:16 --> 01:47:22 at the moment but people like star voting people like i forget what the other
01:47:22 --> 01:47:25 one but we need we definitely need something that's not first past the post
01:47:25 --> 01:47:31 to allow for viable options it's not just a matter of candidate quality,
01:47:32 --> 01:47:37 not just a matter of like I said, it's not just a matter of candidate quality or party apparatus.
01:47:37 --> 01:47:44 It is a combination of the three. It's candidate, party apparatus, ballot access laws.
01:47:45 --> 01:47:48 And all of those things, the last one being the most important,
01:47:49 --> 01:47:52 because that's what's going to get people on their time.
01:47:52 --> 01:48:02 But that's going to be what allows the Libertarian Party to have a good chance
01:48:02 --> 01:48:05 of claiming the presidency in 2028.
01:48:06 --> 01:48:13 All right. So if people want to reach out to you, if people want to get involved
01:48:13 --> 01:48:16 with the Liberty Policy Alliance, how can they go about doing that?
01:48:16 --> 01:48:22 So the first place they can go check us out is libertypolicyalliance.org. That's our website.
01:48:23 --> 01:48:29 You can always email us directly at libertypolicyalliance at gmail.com.
01:48:30 --> 01:48:33 Once we get enough funding, that'll be a more businessy email.
01:48:34 --> 01:48:43 But my business email is sean.miller, S-E-A-N dot M-I-L-L-E-R at libertypolicyalliance.org
01:48:43 --> 01:48:44 if you want to reach me directly.
01:48:45 --> 01:48:49 We are on social media we're on facebook instagram x
01:48:49 --> 01:48:52 and linkedin and i guess technically threads
01:48:52 --> 01:48:55 because if you have an instagram account you have a threads account it's
01:48:55 --> 01:48:58 just weird but if you want to reach us reach
01:48:58 --> 01:49:03 out to us on any of our social media platforms you can do it that way and we
01:49:03 --> 01:49:06 want to we want to hear from everybody we don't want to just hear from republicans
01:49:06 --> 01:49:11 democrats independents libertarians greens we want to hear from everybody so
01:49:11 --> 01:49:16 if you're if you're listening to this and you want to get involved and you want to reach out.
01:49:17 --> 01:49:23 All means, do not feel like you're being tied down to any particular label.
01:49:24 --> 01:49:31 Like I said, we'll work with anybody to achieve what is commonly quoted as liberty in our lifetime.
01:49:32 --> 01:49:35 So I hope people who hear this reach out.
01:49:35 --> 01:49:42 I look forward to having people reach out, and I hope to make a lot of people more free in the future.
01:49:42 --> 01:49:48 Well, Sean Miller, I greatly appreciate you coming on, my man,
01:49:48 --> 01:49:55 and talking about what your organization is doing and some of your insights and what's going on.
01:49:55 --> 01:50:01 My only child is named Sean. So that's an advantage for you there.
01:50:01 --> 01:50:06 And then the other thing is anybody that I have on the show has an open invitation to come back.
01:50:06 --> 01:50:10 So if it's something going on, if you decide, look, man, we need to talk about
01:50:10 --> 01:50:15 this rank voting thing or whatever's on your mind, just feel free to reach out and we'll get you on.
01:50:16 --> 01:50:23 So, again, thank you for taking the time and thank your best friend for allowing us to have this moment.
01:50:24 --> 01:50:27 Well, thank you for having me I'll gladly,
01:50:27 --> 01:50:32 if there's something going on If we see a bill we like or dislike Whether it's
01:50:32 --> 01:50:38 at the state or local Or even the federal level I will gladly hop back on to talk about it I can,
01:50:38 --> 01:50:42 there are certain There are just certain causes And certain issues that I can talk.
01:50:44 --> 01:50:49 If we weren't on a time crunch I could go all day Yes sir Alright guys,
01:50:50 --> 01:50:51 and we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
01:50:51 --> 01:51:09 Music.
01:51:10 --> 01:51:15 All right. And we are back. And ladies and gentlemen, we have a special treat.
01:51:15 --> 01:51:20 Like I said at the intro, it is time for another appearance of the podcast law
01:51:20 --> 01:51:25 firm of Pearson and Pearson. My good friends, Dr.
01:51:26 --> 01:51:30 Tracy Pearson and Melba Pearson. As you know, Dr.
01:51:30 --> 01:51:34 Tracy Pearson is based in Los Angeles, and she is a legal,
01:51:35 --> 01:51:39 political, and cultural analyst and strategist who appears weekly on the popular,
01:51:39 --> 01:51:44 smart, and entertaining radio program, Tell Me Everything, with John Fuglesang,
01:51:44 --> 01:51:48 which airs on Sirius XM Progress 127.
01:51:49 --> 01:51:56 And Melba is an attorney specializing in civil rights and criminal law with an emphasis on policy.
01:51:57 --> 01:52:01 She is the director of prosecution projects at the Gordon Institute for Public
01:52:01 --> 01:52:07 Policy and co-manager for the Prosecutorial Performance Indicators Project based
01:52:07 --> 01:52:10 at Florida International University.
01:52:11 --> 01:52:17 Melba also has a weekly web show called Mondays with Melba and her podcast,
01:52:17 --> 01:52:18 The Resident Legal Diva.
01:52:18 --> 01:52:26 Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor and privilege to have my good friends, Melba and Dr.
01:52:26 --> 01:52:31 Tracy Pearson, the podcast law firm of Pearson and Pearson.
01:52:32 --> 01:52:42 Music.
01:52:42 --> 01:52:47 All right, ladies and gentlemen, the podcast law firm, Pearson and Pearson,
01:52:48 --> 01:52:50 is in the house. Dr. Tracy, how you doing?
01:52:51 --> 01:52:54 I'm doing great. Thanks for having me, Erik. Melba, how you doing?
01:52:55 --> 01:52:58 Good, my brother. How are you doing? I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine.
01:52:59 --> 01:53:01 Just we've survived the first hundred days.
01:53:01 --> 01:53:03 Very early. I know, right?
01:53:04 --> 01:53:09 And so now we asked y'all to come on because one of the highlights,
01:53:09 --> 01:53:14 it seems like, of these first hundred days was there were a lot of judges going to work.
01:53:14 --> 01:53:19 I think there were some federal judges that had kind of been staying in the
01:53:19 --> 01:53:23 low light for years and years. And I know there's one gentleman,
01:53:23 --> 01:53:28 I think he's been on the bench 41 years, and he had to make a ruling on something that Trump did.
01:53:28 --> 01:53:34 So I thought that maybe the best people to analyze what's been happening were
01:53:34 --> 01:53:38 attorneys, people that practice the law and study the law and pay attention
01:53:38 --> 01:53:40 to legal issues going on.
01:53:40 --> 01:53:44 So the first question I wanted to throw out to both of y'all is what is the
01:53:44 --> 01:53:50 most important legal issue that has emerged from these first 100 days? Ooh.
01:53:51 --> 01:53:57 Most important one? I mean, so two things.
01:53:57 --> 01:54:01 I know I'm supposed to be pick one, but due process is incredibly important
01:54:01 --> 01:54:06 because that's like folks have heard of that term in the abstract,
01:54:06 --> 01:54:10 and I think they don't understand what that actually means in practice.
01:54:11 --> 01:54:14 And so clearly the courts are
01:54:14 --> 01:54:18 going to be have to rule in terms of the due process due to immigrants,
01:54:19 --> 01:54:24 the due process due to even citizens who end up getting deported and,
01:54:24 --> 01:54:29 you know, vis-a-vis the two and three-year-old children that were citizens and
01:54:29 --> 01:54:31 got deported with their moms, despite,
01:54:31 --> 01:54:36 you know, there was a parent that resided in the U.S. and wanted them with them.
01:54:36 --> 01:54:40 And, you know, it seems that the mothers were under duress at the time that
01:54:40 --> 01:54:44 they ended up, quote unquote, agreeing to be deported with their kids.
01:54:44 --> 01:54:47 So the whole due process aspect, I think, is huge.
01:54:47 --> 01:54:56 But also respect for the courts, because Because again, when you have a federal judge saying, bring Mr.
01:54:56 --> 01:55:02 Kilmar Garcia back to the U.S., and you have the president being like, yeah, I can, but nope.
01:55:03 --> 01:55:09 It's like that stare down, that I'm daring you to do something about it.
01:55:09 --> 01:55:14 And I don't think that that's going to be resolved until one of these judges
01:55:14 --> 01:55:20 tells somebody to bring their toothbrush and sit in the dock and have to take
01:55:20 --> 01:55:24 their behinds to jail for contempt and sit there for six months.
01:55:26 --> 01:55:31 And if it's the line prosecutor, the line assistant U.S. attorney, that's one thing.
01:55:31 --> 01:55:35 But I honestly think it should be the attorney general because she's the one
01:55:35 --> 01:55:40 who's the puppet master behind all of this, forcing the assistant U.S.
01:55:40 --> 01:55:45 Attorneys to target people, to make arguments that they know are inaccurate,
01:55:45 --> 01:55:49 that they know are contrary to the law. And she's pushing for all of that.
01:55:49 --> 01:55:53 And if you dare to stand up and be like, actually, I don't think this argument
01:55:53 --> 01:55:57 makes sense or you're in court and the judge asks you a question and you answer
01:55:57 --> 01:56:00 it honestly like, I don't know, judge. The next thing you know, you're like fired.
01:56:02 --> 01:56:05 That's not how any of this works. That's not how this is supposed to work.
01:56:06 --> 01:56:08 So I'm going to pause there because I could rant all day.
01:56:09 --> 01:56:15 I agree. I think the due process is important. I think there's a couple things.
01:56:16 --> 01:56:20 One is the fact that people don't know what law is.
01:56:20 --> 01:56:26 I've seen this a bunch of times, and I want to throttle folks who should know better.
01:56:26 --> 01:56:34 Executive orders are a kind of law. They have the force of law in certain circumstances.
01:56:35 --> 01:56:38 Proclamations don't. I mean, they're just proclamations, statements of policy.
01:56:39 --> 01:56:43 But executive orders do have the force of law. Otherwise, you couldn't challenge them in court.
01:56:44 --> 01:56:50 And the issue is, what strength does it have in comparison to the other kinds of law that we have?
01:56:50 --> 01:56:53 We have rules and regulations.
01:56:53 --> 01:56:57 We have court-made law. Those are things like the Supreme Court decisions.
01:56:58 --> 01:57:00 And we have legislation.
01:57:00 --> 01:57:03 And when people think about law, they often think about legislation.
01:57:03 --> 01:57:06 So they think about the law that's made by Congress.
01:57:07 --> 01:57:10 And, you know, it's introduced in the House or the Senate, passed by the other
01:57:10 --> 01:57:14 House, then goes up to the president for a signature. That's a statute.
01:57:14 --> 01:57:18 And people don't seem to, like, I'll see this constantly.
01:57:18 --> 01:57:21 It'll say, you know, executive orders or EOs aren't law. No,
01:57:22 --> 01:57:26 no, they are. They just aren't as strong and they can be overturned by the courts.
01:57:26 --> 01:57:29 And so it's really important that people not brush that off.
01:57:29 --> 01:57:32 I'm also one thousand percent with Melba on this.
01:57:33 --> 01:57:35 Pam Bondi should never have been confirmed.
01:57:36 --> 01:57:42 Facts. Sorry. She should never have been confirmed. And the people in the Senate
01:57:42 --> 01:57:46 should be ashamed of themselves and they should turn their bar licenses in.
01:57:47 --> 01:57:51 Because Pam Bondi was on the team for the first impeachment.
01:57:51 --> 01:57:58 That made her have a conflict of interest that lasts until beyond her client's death.
01:57:58 --> 01:58:05 And so she can't represent the Department of Justice, which is the attorney for the government.
01:58:05 --> 01:58:10 And ultimately, the people versus Donald Trump personally.
01:58:11 --> 01:58:15 And we've heard her misrepresent what her function is repeatedly in the press.
01:58:15 --> 01:58:17 She should be disbarred.
01:58:18 --> 01:58:24 And I certainly hope to have somebody in the D.C. bar is pursuing this. In the bar?
01:58:25 --> 01:58:32 Or the Florida bar? Any of the bars would be good because of reciprocity. But if you are a U.S.
01:58:32 --> 01:58:35 Attorney, I mean, a U.S. attorney or even an assistant U.S. attorney,
01:58:36 --> 01:58:40 anybody who's acting in the role of an attorney in this Department of Justice
01:58:40 --> 01:58:45 and you disagree with what you're being told to do, you have an obligation to
01:58:45 --> 01:58:48 quit after you remonstrate with leadership.
01:58:49 --> 01:58:54 An obligation to quit. And frankly, I would quit rather than get fired because
01:58:54 --> 01:58:55 I can justify the quitting.
01:58:55 --> 01:59:01 The firing can get ugly for you if you're applying to jobs. But quit.
01:59:02 --> 01:59:06 Quit because the rules of professional conduct for lawyers actually matter.
01:59:06 --> 01:59:12 They actually matter. And it just seems like any rule or law or,
01:59:12 --> 01:59:14 oh, I don't know, the Constitution,
01:59:14 --> 01:59:17 all of this stuff has just gone out the window
01:59:17 --> 01:59:21 like none of it seems to matter anymore and and
01:59:21 --> 01:59:24 it's not norms it's it's it is
01:59:24 --> 01:59:27 these things don't seem to matter in people's consciousness and
01:59:27 --> 01:59:30 i don't i don't get it and i i would
01:59:30 --> 01:59:34 actually slightly disagree on one small fact i think that you might be better
01:59:34 --> 01:59:38 off getting fired and the reason why is number one at least you can get unemployment
01:59:38 --> 01:59:42 because again you know if you haven't been stacking your checks like planning
01:59:42 --> 01:59:47 for oh my gosh you know i didn't realized I was going to be working for a tyrant, right?
01:59:47 --> 01:59:52 Most people don't have that money stashed away to be able to pay their rent
01:59:52 --> 01:59:57 and all of that for a few months until they get a new job. And this is a tough job market.
01:59:57 --> 02:00:02 Now, I think also, depending on where you're applying to, a lot of assistant U.S.
02:00:02 --> 02:00:05 Attorneys, if they leave, they generally go to big firms.
02:00:05 --> 02:00:09 So if they're applying to firms that are currently fighting this administration,
02:00:09 --> 02:00:13 which is where I think you would apply. You wouldn't apply to one of those that rolled over.
02:00:13 --> 02:00:17 I almost think getting fired is a badge of honor in certain circles.
02:00:18 --> 02:00:20 But, you know, and I, you know, they're.
02:00:21 --> 02:00:24 It can still get messy, right? But then also, too, you may be able to preserve
02:00:24 --> 02:00:26 a case for wrongful termination later on down the line, too.
02:00:27 --> 02:00:29 So everybody's situation is different.
02:00:30 --> 02:00:33 Yeah, no, and I hear that. And I absolutely hear that. Where I'm coming from
02:00:33 --> 02:00:38 on it is, first of all, you want to maintain what we call your ticket,
02:00:38 --> 02:00:40 right? You want to maintain that ticket, that license.
02:00:41 --> 02:00:44 And so if they're doing bad stuff, that stuff may bounce back on you at some
02:00:44 --> 02:00:48 point. So if you quit, you have repudiated whatever they've asked you to do.
02:00:48 --> 02:00:52 But also, So, you know, constructive discharge is a thing. It's the hardest
02:00:52 --> 02:00:55 claim to make, but it is something that, it is a thing.
02:00:56 --> 02:01:02 And I hope they aren't going to work for those big firms that are just bending and kissing rings.
02:01:03 --> 02:01:05 I mean, that's jumping from the fire pan into the fire.
02:01:06 --> 02:01:13 To get back, to get to the Pam Bundy point, why do you think that nobody has
02:01:13 --> 02:01:19 made the effort to have her disbarred? She is clearly, I understand your point, Dr.
02:01:20 --> 02:01:26 Pearson on, or Tracy, on her conflict of interest.
02:01:26 --> 02:01:28 And that should have been brought up in the hearing.
02:01:28 --> 02:01:33 Well, I guess it was between Stackhouse and a couple of the others.
02:01:33 --> 02:01:36 I think they, you know, probed it as well as they could.
02:01:36 --> 02:01:43 But just this whole issue about due process, it would seem like, you know,
02:01:43 --> 02:01:50 that her actions since she has been sworn in would indicate that she is not
02:01:50 --> 02:01:58 ethically following the law as far as the practice of law, as far as being a U.S.
02:01:58 --> 02:02:04 Attorney general, as far as being separated from the president and then going
02:02:04 --> 02:02:09 on TV shows. and basically saying, yeah, we're not going to offer due process.
02:02:10 --> 02:02:14 That would seem like to me, if I was an attorney in Georgia,
02:02:14 --> 02:02:18 the minute that I would have, or a DA, and the minute I said,
02:02:19 --> 02:02:23 no, we're just going to send him straight to Milledgeville, to the prison.
02:02:24 --> 02:02:26 We're not even going to have a trial for him.
02:02:27 --> 02:02:32 Everybody, the governor would be like calling a special session to have me disbarred, you know?
02:02:32 --> 02:02:39 So I'm trying to figure out why nobody in the legal circles that could mount
02:02:39 --> 02:02:40 that kind of a challenge,
02:02:40 --> 02:02:43 especially even in Melbourne, in your home state in Florida,
02:02:43 --> 02:02:49 it would seem like somebody would say, yeah, no, I don't think you need to be practicing law.
02:02:49 --> 02:02:53 If that's your attitude, then we need to take that license because your license
02:02:53 --> 02:02:57 and, you know, I didn't go to law school and all that, but I understand that
02:02:57 --> 02:03:01 once you get your license from the state and that gives you.
02:03:02 --> 02:03:05 Well, I don't know if there's a step you have to take, but that gives you the
02:03:05 --> 02:03:10 right to practice law in the Supreme Court, in the federal courts, because they give you,
02:03:10 --> 02:03:16 I've seen every law office I've been to, there's that state law bar license
02:03:16 --> 02:03:20 and then the big pretty things with the capital on it that says you can practice
02:03:20 --> 02:03:21 law at the federal level.
02:03:21 --> 02:03:26 So it seemed like if she was disbarred at a state that she couldn't be attorney
02:03:26 --> 02:03:29 general because she couldn't practice law in D.C. either.
02:03:29 --> 02:03:36 Well, sort of, kind of, kind of. So, when you're barred, what ends up happening
02:03:36 --> 02:03:40 is that you can practice in the highest state court of your state.
02:03:40 --> 02:03:43 So, it might be in the instance of Florida, I'm barred in Florida,
02:03:43 --> 02:03:46 so I can practice in front of the Supreme Court of Florida.
02:03:47 --> 02:03:52 Now, if I want to practice in federal court, I then have to be barred federally.
02:03:52 --> 02:03:57 And that's also jurisdiction by jurisdiction. Now, separately,
02:03:57 --> 02:04:00 for instance, I'm barred in the District of Columbia, so I can practice law
02:04:00 --> 02:04:02 in Florida or in the District of Columbia.
02:04:02 --> 02:04:07 For the U.S. attorney, attorney general, whatever, you just have to be barred
02:04:07 --> 02:04:08 somewhere in the country.
02:04:08 --> 02:04:12 So even if, let's say, she was disbarred in Florida, if she still had a D.C.
02:04:13 --> 02:04:15 Admission, she could still be attorney general.
02:04:15 --> 02:04:20 Now, if Florida was the only barred admission she had and that was taken away,
02:04:20 --> 02:04:22 well, then now there's a serious issue.
02:04:23 --> 02:04:27 Now, but to go to your question, Erik, I think that people are still afraid.
02:04:29 --> 02:04:33 I think it's slightly different than the situation with Giuliani,
02:04:33 --> 02:04:38 how his law license was revoked in New York and there was, and I think in D.C. as well.
02:04:39 --> 02:04:41 And again, it was already after he
02:04:41 --> 02:04:46 had gone to trial and all of this other foolishness came out. Excuse me.
02:04:46 --> 02:04:51 It's that he lost kind of all relevance and power and like nobody was afraid
02:04:51 --> 02:04:53 of him anymore. He didn't have access.
02:04:53 --> 02:04:56 There wasn't, you know, a fear of retribution or anything like that.
02:04:56 --> 02:05:00 So I guess folks went and kicked him when he was down, which I have no issue
02:05:00 --> 02:05:03 with, and rightfully so, and then he was able to be disbarred.
02:05:04 --> 02:05:08 I think people are still afraid of the access and power that Pam Bondi has at the moment.
02:05:09 --> 02:05:12 And, you know, I do think someone needs to be brave and do it.
02:05:12 --> 02:05:19 But again, knowing that she supervises the U.S. attorneys in the state of Florida.
02:05:19 --> 02:05:24 So even if you don't do criminal practice or whatever the case may be,
02:05:24 --> 02:05:29 somehow something funny can happen in your world and you end up in the federal
02:05:29 --> 02:05:30 criminal system, right?
02:05:30 --> 02:05:34 So I think people are afraid of that backlash and that's why it hasn't been done.
02:05:34 --> 02:05:39 Now, I think maybe by year two, year three of the administration,
02:05:39 --> 02:05:43 when you start to get into like Lane Duckville, because usually most U.S.
02:05:44 --> 02:05:47 Attorneys, sorry, most attorney generals and U.S. attorneys as well,
02:05:47 --> 02:05:50 don't last past one administration.
02:05:50 --> 02:05:54 So So whether it's, you know, we saw this in the Biden administration,
02:05:54 --> 02:05:57 the attorney general served for both Biden terms.
02:05:57 --> 02:06:00 But if you look at, you know, in Obama's term, you had Eric Garner.
02:06:01 --> 02:06:03 Right? I didn't say that wrong. Eric Holder.
02:06:03 --> 02:06:06 Eric Holder, right? I'm like, wrong Eric, right?
02:06:07 --> 02:06:10 Yeah, Eric Holder. And then you also had Loretta Lynch, right?
02:06:10 --> 02:06:12 So you had two different ones.
02:06:12 --> 02:06:18 But I think that once you kind of get towards the end of that presidential term,
02:06:18 --> 02:06:21 that's where maybe you might see some activity. because, again,
02:06:21 --> 02:06:22 they're less afraid of repercussions.
02:06:23 --> 02:06:27 My thought. I think, and everything that Melville said is right,
02:06:27 --> 02:06:32 but there's another interesting path, which is, and for me, when I was admitted
02:06:32 --> 02:06:35 to the bar, I was admitted to my state bar, and then,
02:06:35 --> 02:06:39 I don't know if my state was unique this way, but I was also admitted into the
02:06:39 --> 02:06:43 federal bar just per forma, and you had to show up and put your hand up and
02:06:43 --> 02:06:47 do the whole thing, and it was a cute little ceremony, and you got your certificate.
02:06:48 --> 02:06:51 That's the one that you're talking about sort of with the, you know,
02:06:51 --> 02:06:52 the Capitol and everything on it.
02:06:52 --> 02:06:56 And the Supreme Court's a different story. It's a special admission that you
02:06:56 --> 02:06:59 have to be sponsored and apply and the whole thing. And it's great. It's wonderful.
02:07:00 --> 02:07:05 But most lawyers don't practice in the Supreme Court. So it's an honor thing, I think.
02:07:06 --> 02:07:10 And I don't have admission in the Supreme Court. It's a trip down to D.C. It's the whole thing.
02:07:10 --> 02:07:16 But when it comes to the federal courts, this is where it kind of gets a little fun.
02:07:16 --> 02:07:21 And that is, judges can revoke your ability to practice there.
02:07:22 --> 02:07:25 Because it's not necessarily, you can practice in your state,
02:07:25 --> 02:07:27 that's fine, but you cannot practice in this court.
02:07:27 --> 02:07:32 And so if you're doing something, you're in contempt, you're the lawyer who
02:07:32 --> 02:07:35 now I'm finding you in contempt as a lawyer.
02:07:35 --> 02:07:39 They will open proceedings in the court, in the federal court,
02:07:40 --> 02:07:44 to hold you accountable and bar you from practicing in that federal court.
02:07:44 --> 02:07:47 They have jurisdiction over their own court system.
02:07:48 --> 02:07:51 And then they'll also, sometimes they'll just refer attorneys to the state bar.
02:07:52 --> 02:07:56 But they can actually stop it, stop you from appearing in that court.
02:07:57 --> 02:08:03 And I've seen it happen to lawyers. I've seen lawyers face the potential of it. It's very rare.
02:08:03 --> 02:08:09 But I think in this situation, when we're talking about the gentleman in El Salvador,
02:08:09 --> 02:08:14 who's been sent to El Salvador and doesn't belong there, and they're not cooperating
02:08:14 --> 02:08:20 with orders, and they're not, they are lying, they are manufacturing evidence,
02:08:20 --> 02:08:24 And they are firing the assistant U.S.
02:08:24 --> 02:08:28 Attorneys who are telling the court the truth because the rules of professional
02:08:28 --> 02:08:33 conduct are not in order of importance. The most important rule is 3.3,
02:08:33 --> 02:08:35 which is hand her to the tribunal.
02:08:36 --> 02:08:42 And so you must tell the court the truth. And if you are asked a question by
02:08:42 --> 02:08:45 the judge, you must answer that question.
02:08:46 --> 02:08:51 And that lawyer who ended up being put on administrative leave, and I think fired.
02:08:52 --> 02:08:58 Who actually answered the court honestly. He was following, I think it was he,
02:08:58 --> 02:09:00 was following the rules.
02:09:00 --> 02:09:05 You have to tell the truth. Otherwise, the entire judicial system falls apart.
02:09:05 --> 02:09:07 That's why it's the most important rule.
02:09:07 --> 02:09:12 You have to remonstrate with your client. If your client is doing something,
02:09:12 --> 02:09:16 you know, stupid that could result in lying to the court.
02:09:16 --> 02:09:20 I had a client once who did lie to the court.
02:09:20 --> 02:09:26 And it wasn't, when I say it wasn't intentional, it wasn't like they contrived to do it.
02:09:26 --> 02:09:33 But I had that person file an affidavit saying, I made a misstatement of fact.
02:09:34 --> 02:09:39 I'm very sorry. I didn't mean to do it. But this, you know, and an explanation.
02:09:40 --> 02:09:44 And I made the lawyer, or rather the client do that because it was so critical
02:09:44 --> 02:09:48 that the court have truthful information and it was going to impact the rest
02:09:48 --> 02:09:50 of the case. He couldn't look like a liar.
02:09:50 --> 02:09:57 So I think that this case in particular is one, and thank God I'm not that judge,
02:09:57 --> 02:10:01 because they are going to really
02:10:01 --> 02:10:07 have to think about what the range of consequences are at their disposal.
02:10:07 --> 02:10:15 And given the fact that Pam Bondi controls federal law enforcement to a degree, like U.S. marshals.
02:10:16 --> 02:10:20 How are we going to enforce these orders that are being issued?
02:10:21 --> 02:10:26 Yeah, and that's been a big topic of the discussion as far as the enforcement,
02:10:26 --> 02:10:31 because a lot of people just think, you know, well, you know,
02:10:31 --> 02:10:36 if they don't follow the order, then they can just send the U.S.
02:10:36 --> 02:10:39 Marshals go and say, no, the U.S. marshals fall under the attorney general.
02:10:40 --> 02:10:45 So, you know, if the judge, and the judge doesn't have that.
02:10:45 --> 02:10:49 Well, they were trying to, somebody was trying to explain that the judges have
02:10:49 --> 02:10:57 some kind of power where they can designate somebody to carry out a contempt order.
02:10:58 --> 02:11:01 And, you know, it's like, I don't think the judges have the same power.
02:11:01 --> 02:11:06 Like if, if something is going on in a particular state, then the president
02:11:06 --> 02:11:11 of the United States can, can deputize the National Guard,
02:11:11 --> 02:11:17 federalize it and, you know, and give a direct order superseding the governor of that state, right?
02:11:17 --> 02:11:21 I don't think judges have that same ability, but they were saying there's some
02:11:21 --> 02:11:28 kind of special, like, prosecutor or some kind of special marshal that they can appoint.
02:11:28 --> 02:11:33 And I, of course, all this stuff is new, so I had never heard that before.
02:11:33 --> 02:11:36 Have any of y'all heard that kind of power before?
02:11:37 --> 02:11:41 Have not, but also I don't really do a lot of federal practice.
02:11:42 --> 02:11:49 So, you know, I think sort of we're conflating two things.
02:11:49 --> 02:11:55 One is who enforces the orders, but the other is who prosecutes the thing that needs prosecuting.
02:11:55 --> 02:12:03 And so the court can appoint an attorney to prosecute an issue if the DOJ won't
02:12:03 --> 02:12:05 do it under very special circumstances.
02:12:06 --> 02:12:11 And this has been talked about, I think, in one of one of the orders that we're going to do it this way.
02:12:12 --> 02:12:15 And these are the steps we're going to follow. And right now we're at that first
02:12:15 --> 02:12:17 step where we're going to do some discovery.
02:12:17 --> 02:12:21 And then we're going to decide, you know, as we get more information,
02:12:21 --> 02:12:25 you know, whether we're whether either the DOJ is going to do some prosecuting,
02:12:25 --> 02:12:28 if there's something to be prosecuted here after we do discovery,
02:12:28 --> 02:12:31 or if not, I'm going to appoint an attorney to do the prosecuting.
02:12:31 --> 02:12:34 And a federal judge can, in fact, do that.
02:12:35 --> 02:12:40 So in essence, though, but because I think the judge, the lower court judge,
02:12:40 --> 02:12:44 the district judge is Paula Xinis, I think her name is.
02:12:45 --> 02:12:50 And I think she's the one who is trying to figure out, as you were pointing
02:12:50 --> 02:12:59 out, Tracy, what what she can do if she finds that, you know, they.
02:13:00 --> 02:13:04 If they did something wrong, they're not following the order that she gave.
02:13:05 --> 02:13:11 She's trying to figure out what she can do in order to get compliance.
02:13:11 --> 02:13:22 And quickly explain the word salad game that they were playing with facilitate and expedite, right?
02:13:24 --> 02:13:30 So Judge Zinnis said that the administration needs to facilitate and expedite
02:13:30 --> 02:13:32 Mr. Abrego Garcia's return.
02:13:32 --> 02:13:37 Then the Supreme Court turned around and said that the administration needs
02:13:37 --> 02:13:41 to facilitate, but deliberately left out the word expedite.
02:13:41 --> 02:13:45 And so and then the administration started running around and saying,
02:13:45 --> 02:13:47 oh, that's a victory for us.
02:13:47 --> 02:13:50 It just says we have to facilitate doesn't mean we have to expedite.
02:13:50 --> 02:13:55 And then another judge came back and said, yeah, so facilitate means a little
02:13:55 --> 02:13:56 more than what you think.
02:13:56 --> 02:14:00 I think, you know, it's one thing to just pick up the phone and say,
02:14:00 --> 02:14:03 hey, you want to bring him back? No. Okay, cool. It's a little more effort than that.
02:14:03 --> 02:14:09 So y'all kind of talk why the administration is trying to play this word salad game.
02:14:10 --> 02:14:16 Don't want to do it plain and simple they're looking for a way and and that's something that,
02:14:16 --> 02:14:20 i'd never like to give him credit for anything but they've
02:14:20 --> 02:14:27 been very good at taking something that is basic a basic word like the and twisting
02:14:27 --> 02:14:30 it 10 different ways from sunrise where you're sitting there like does that
02:14:30 --> 02:14:33 really mean what i think it's like
02:14:33 --> 02:14:38 am i you know it almost it's like a gaslighting on an epic level, right?
02:14:38 --> 02:14:40 And so we all know what facilitate means.
02:14:40 --> 02:14:45 It means you need to pick up the phone, get him over there, you know,
02:14:45 --> 02:14:47 hey, what do we need to do, and get him back.
02:14:48 --> 02:14:54 Now, the expedite thing, that was problematic because, again, you know, Mr.
02:14:54 --> 02:15:00 Abrego Garcia needed to come back yesterday, basically, and they're going to
02:15:00 --> 02:15:02 drag their feet on it. And we know that.
02:15:02 --> 02:15:05 We know this administration is going to drag their feet. So that's why it was
02:15:05 --> 02:15:10 very problematic that the Supreme Court didn't also say you needed to expedite
02:15:10 --> 02:15:12 it because they could be like, sure, we'll bring him back in three years.
02:15:13 --> 02:15:18 Yeah. He's going to be even alive in three years, you know, but facilitate means
02:15:18 --> 02:15:20 you need to bring him back.
02:15:20 --> 02:15:22 You need to do more than just pick, you know, like you said,
02:15:22 --> 02:15:25 pick up the phone. Now you don't want to do it. Click. No, you need to.
02:15:25 --> 02:15:28 What do I need to give you? Or do I need to do a trade?
02:15:28 --> 02:15:32 Whatever it is, you got to figure it out and make sure he comes back.
02:15:33 --> 02:15:40 I've been frustrated with folks in the social media area because people are primed.
02:15:40 --> 02:15:46 They are very much primed to, they hate the Supreme Court. They hate this.
02:15:46 --> 02:15:50 They hate this. If this isn't happening the way that they want it to, then that person's bad.
02:15:51 --> 02:15:57 And when I saw the order that said facilitate, I went, good, because that's legal.
02:15:58 --> 02:16:01 The United States cannot, the U.S.
02:16:01 --> 02:16:07 Supreme Court cannot order a party that is not before it to do something.
02:16:07 --> 02:16:11 So it cannot order El Salvador to return this man.
02:16:12 --> 02:16:18 It can only order the United States to facilitate his return.
02:16:19 --> 02:16:29 Now, what I have said is that the family needs to sue El Salvador or bring El Salvador into the case.
02:16:29 --> 02:16:33 And I always thought, well, why don't why didn't they do that from the very
02:16:33 --> 02:16:38 beginning to some degree and have a original jurisdiction out of the U.S. Supreme Court?
02:16:38 --> 02:16:40 Because it would be a, you know, another nation.
02:16:41 --> 02:16:47 But I think that that people really need to stop like they are just everything
02:16:47 --> 02:16:52 is bad and they're operating on this dysregulated dysregulated nervous system response.
02:16:52 --> 02:16:58 And people really need to think through or ask people that do understand it
02:16:58 --> 02:17:01 why something is happening rather than reacting to it.
02:17:02 --> 02:17:06 And it's really hard to do when we're in crisis, but there's so much bad information
02:17:06 --> 02:17:08 out there. So I'm glad that you asked that question.
02:17:08 --> 02:17:11 Why are they not doing it?
02:17:11 --> 02:17:15 They're not doing it because Donald Trump has never taken responsibility for
02:17:15 --> 02:17:19 a single thing in his life, except things that he claims are good.
02:17:20 --> 02:17:27 And nothing, nothing. It's outrageous. It's absolutely blatantly freaking wrong.
02:17:28 --> 02:17:32 They know it's wrong. They aren't doing anything about it.
02:17:32 --> 02:17:38 And they're manufacturing evidence on this man's hand to justify something.
02:17:38 --> 02:17:42 And it's absolutely insane because
02:17:42 --> 02:17:45 it's not just about this man it's about every
02:17:45 --> 02:17:51 single one of us whether you are black whether you are white whether you you
02:17:51 --> 02:17:56 are somebody who is asian whether you're somebody who comes from from a you
02:17:56 --> 02:18:04 know a latina heritage it is it is it is just it's every single one of us because,
02:18:04 --> 02:18:09 see, we're having this conversation right now, and this conversation could be
02:18:09 --> 02:18:12 determined to be unlawful with an executive order tomorrow.
02:18:12 --> 02:18:18 And so it's every single one of us that has to be concerned about what's happening here with this.
02:18:18 --> 02:18:21 It's not just about this man. Yeah. Yeah.
02:18:22 --> 02:18:27 You know, people used to accuse me of being a lawyer, but they also used to
02:18:27 --> 02:18:30 accuse me of being a preacher too. So take that for what you will.
02:18:31 --> 02:18:37 But, you know, I never studied the law like that, you know, formally.
02:18:37 --> 02:18:40 And, you know, although I did have a privilege to make some,
02:18:40 --> 02:18:48 you know, but I never practiced. So I just, I don't really get what's going on.
02:18:48 --> 02:18:54 And the biggest thing that's troubling me is these law firms, right?
02:18:55 --> 02:19:01 So it's like, you know, I remember back in 1989, in Mississippi,
02:19:01 --> 02:19:02 we had a very unique situation.
02:19:02 --> 02:19:07 We were trying to get black lawyers elected to the Chancery Court because in
02:19:07 --> 02:19:11 Mississippi, the Chancery Court deals with property matters as well as,
02:19:11 --> 02:19:15 you know, divorce and all the other stuff, but probate, you know.
02:19:15 --> 02:19:21 And so we didn't have any black Chancery judges.
02:19:22 --> 02:19:25 And so a lot of lawyers got elected.
02:19:26 --> 02:19:32 So what happened, there was a lot of firms that were dissolved because those
02:19:32 --> 02:19:34 lawyers now were moving to the bench.
02:19:34 --> 02:19:38 And so there was a lot of reorganization going on. And I was doing my best behind
02:19:38 --> 02:19:43 the scenes to try to encourage people, especially in Jackson,
02:19:43 --> 02:19:46 to say, we need to have a black super law firm. Right.
02:19:47 --> 02:19:51 We need to get all y'all together on one big firm and, you know,
02:19:52 --> 02:19:57 you know, compete with the Butler Snows and the Phelps Dunbars and all those
02:19:57 --> 02:19:58 other big firms that were in Jackson.
02:19:59 --> 02:20:02 Needless to say, it did not happen. And I'll have to tell you all the story
02:20:02 --> 02:20:04 off the air because we don't have time.
02:20:04 --> 02:20:12 But why it didn't. But my mindset was a super law firm was what everybody was
02:20:12 --> 02:20:14 seeking to either achieve.
02:20:14 --> 02:20:20 Or get to in their law practice. If you could get to one of those big firms, you made it.
02:20:20 --> 02:20:22 And it's like you're guaranteed money.
02:20:23 --> 02:20:29 You've got all these resources behind you to litigate your case and do whatever you got to do.
02:20:31 --> 02:20:37 And so when I'm seeing law firms who have been established for a number of years
02:20:37 --> 02:20:42 who represent Democrats, Republicans, dogs, cats before the federal court
02:20:43 --> 02:20:48 and just, you know, and do, you know, you know, and just, you know, they walk around.
02:20:48 --> 02:20:52 I think there was some type of term that they used to use for those firms,
02:20:52 --> 02:20:54 like the white shoe firms. White shoe. Yeah.
02:20:55 --> 02:21:00 It's like, you would think that if there was anybody that, as the president
02:21:00 --> 02:21:06 of the United States, I wouldn't want to go to court against or challenge, it would be those firms.
02:21:06 --> 02:21:10 Now, you know, it was a little old firm of, you know, Erik Fleming and, you know,
02:21:10 --> 02:21:14 Foggy Bog, hogsworth or whatever you know what i'm saying it's
02:21:14 --> 02:21:17 like we got this little practice in atlanta we we went as
02:21:17 --> 02:21:20 the david trying to slay goliath yeah we're probably
02:21:20 --> 02:21:23 gonna get smoked you know what i'm saying we're probably gonna oh yeah the president's
02:21:23 --> 02:21:28 gonna treat us like stepchildren but these white shoe firms i don't understand
02:21:28 --> 02:21:34 why they're bending the knee so y'all y'all practice law y'all y'all interact
02:21:34 --> 02:21:39 with these people even if you're not members of those firms what Why would a law firm do that?
02:21:40 --> 02:21:45 First of all, the vast majority of law firms in this country are solo practitioners,
02:21:46 --> 02:21:51 small law firms like partnerships, or medium-sized firms, which have a very
02:21:51 --> 02:21:52 small number of attorneys.
02:21:52 --> 02:21:56 That is the vast majority of law firms in this country, and they're good.
02:21:56 --> 02:21:57 You find really great ones.
02:21:58 --> 02:22:02 And if you look at cases that have been decided, you will see that oftentimes
02:22:02 --> 02:22:07 it is not one of these big law firms. These big law firms need security clearances
02:22:07 --> 02:22:12 because a lot of them do work in that sector.
02:22:13 --> 02:22:16 So like the technology sector and they interface with the government,
02:22:16 --> 02:22:19 their clients need to have security clearances.
02:22:19 --> 02:22:23 So if you have a client that has a security clearance and you're working on
02:22:23 --> 02:22:27 something that relates to, let's say, the Department of Defense or that relates
02:22:27 --> 02:22:30 to something having to do with national security,
02:22:30 --> 02:22:37 your client can't use you if you can't look at the documents and your client
02:22:37 --> 02:22:42 doesn't want to be associated with you under those circumstances because they may be at risk.
02:22:42 --> 02:22:47 That was one of the primary underlying things that struck that first firm.
02:22:47 --> 02:22:49 They were losing clients and
02:22:49 --> 02:22:54 their practice that this big law firm was in danger of being decimated.
02:22:55 --> 02:22:58 Agree with you that the last person you want to sue is an
02:22:58 --> 02:23:01 attorney because you know we're good
02:23:01 --> 02:23:06 we know how to think about these things unlike the sort of the the the average
02:23:06 --> 02:23:10 everyday citizen who isn't trained in the law unfortunately when you get trained
02:23:10 --> 02:23:14 in the law your brain gets gets you know sort of reorganized in a way that makes
02:23:14 --> 02:23:18 you you know difficult to talk to but i think.
02:23:19 --> 02:23:22 And you stop learning how to use techno like the
02:23:22 --> 02:23:25 photocopier that that goes away too i swear it's
02:23:25 --> 02:23:29 true staplers just marginal but i
02:23:29 --> 02:23:32 i think that that that's that is the primary
02:23:32 --> 02:23:36 driver behind some of this so it is
02:23:36 --> 02:23:41 it what's happening is outrageous and stupid and i can say that a thousand times
02:23:41 --> 02:23:46 during this interview outrageous and stupid and i can tell you i would i would
02:23:46 --> 02:23:53 not have bent the knee and i would have fought it in court and gotten the injunction and and and and,
02:23:54 --> 02:23:58 done everything I could PR-wise to fight back.
02:23:59 --> 02:24:05 And it's sad and frustrating. The other thing is that they could be taking sort
02:24:05 --> 02:24:10 of possibly sort of just very quickly genuflecting, but okay,
02:24:10 --> 02:24:11 fine, we'll do a hundred, you know,
02:24:12 --> 02:24:15 however many millions of hours of pro bono service for those people,
02:24:15 --> 02:24:17 but we're also going to be doing it for the other people too.
02:24:18 --> 02:24:22 And they also know they have conflicts. So, for example, they can't,
02:24:22 --> 02:24:27 if you've represented Hillary Clinton or the Democratic Party in a particular situation,
02:24:28 --> 02:24:32 let's say the Democratic National Party in a situation, you can't represent
02:24:32 --> 02:24:35 the Republican Party because there is a rule that says you can't,
02:24:36 --> 02:24:38 because there's a conflict of interest there.
02:24:39 --> 02:24:42 And there is no wall that can be created.
02:24:42 --> 02:24:46 You're working at opposing interests most of the time. So they may,
02:24:47 --> 02:24:50 in some ways, be figuring out how to rationalize that in the background.
02:24:50 --> 02:24:52 I could be completely wrong about that.
02:24:52 --> 02:24:57 Well, I will say this. I say it's a lack of backbone because the reality is
02:24:57 --> 02:25:00 you're going to lose clients one way or the other. If you bend the knee.
02:25:01 --> 02:25:05 End up losing clients and your name is trash. If you stand up and fight,
02:25:05 --> 02:25:09 you may lose your security clearance, but at least you still have your dignity.
02:25:10 --> 02:25:15 And folks will be like, listen, I know I can't deal with you right now because of what's going on.
02:25:15 --> 02:25:19 But as soon as this matter is resolved, I'm coming back, right?
02:25:19 --> 02:25:21 Because it shows you stand for something.
02:25:21 --> 02:25:27 This week, it was released that Microsoft fired the firm that they were working
02:25:27 --> 02:25:32 with because they genuflected to the administration and they hired a firm that
02:25:32 --> 02:25:33 was fighting the administration.
02:25:33 --> 02:25:36 So hello to land Microsoft as a client.
02:25:36 --> 02:25:41 I think that kind of offsets whatever clients you may have lost in the process
02:25:41 --> 02:25:43 by standing up to this administration.
02:25:44 --> 02:25:47 And then also, you can't forget what this does internally.
02:25:47 --> 02:25:53 When I tell you my LinkedIn timeline is filled with associates who have been
02:25:53 --> 02:25:57 working at these firms and were like, this was my entire dream.
02:25:57 --> 02:26:02 I was top of my class. I couldn't wait to start working at XYZ firm.
02:26:02 --> 02:26:07 And now they've genuflected and I can't in good conscience continue to work here.
02:26:07 --> 02:26:10 And they literally walked out of their dream job.
02:26:10 --> 02:26:15 So when you have all the people that are going to do the work heading for the
02:26:15 --> 02:26:19 front door, and you may have trouble now recruiting new people to take their
02:26:19 --> 02:26:21 place because they're like, no, I don't want to come into this mess.
02:26:21 --> 02:26:26 I don't want my name now sullied thinking that I co-signed what you did.
02:26:26 --> 02:26:31 That's going to have long-lasting damage and effects to those firms.
02:26:31 --> 02:26:35 So it's one of those things that, you know, you kind of pick your poison and
02:26:35 --> 02:26:40 do you basically want to die with your boots on but with some dignity or do
02:26:40 --> 02:26:45 you want to basically go out on your back because you genuflected and it still,
02:26:45 --> 02:26:51 at the end of the day, did not absolve you or have you immune from all of the
02:26:51 --> 02:26:56 other collateral consequences from being involved during this time. I mean.
02:26:57 --> 02:27:02 I was just going to say that the folks that called it their dream job,
02:27:02 --> 02:27:06 I never dreamed to want to work for any of those firms.
02:27:06 --> 02:27:11 I always saw those firms as defense firms, as business firms,
02:27:11 --> 02:27:17 as corporate firms, and working for not the human being, but for the entity,
02:27:18 --> 02:27:19 and so working for the greedy money.
02:27:19 --> 02:27:23 So I didn't want to do that. And when you work for a firm like that,
02:27:24 --> 02:27:30 in my, at least in my experience, you spend about seven years bag carrying for people.
02:27:30 --> 02:27:35 And you sit in the tiny cubicle near the library and you're doing all this research
02:27:35 --> 02:27:37 and all this writing and you get to go and watch.
02:27:37 --> 02:27:42 I went out. I started practicing. I was trying a case the day that I got admitted
02:27:42 --> 02:27:48 to the bar and won. But I started practicing immediately.
02:27:48 --> 02:27:53 And during law school, the folks that were, you know, sort of headed in that
02:27:53 --> 02:27:55 direction did different activities than what I was doing.
02:27:55 --> 02:27:59 I was hustling for every law firm that needed somebody to be a research assistant
02:27:59 --> 02:28:03 or a law clerk and trying to gain actual practice experience.
02:28:03 --> 02:28:08 So I think that the advantage of those big law firms is a lot of money.
02:28:09 --> 02:28:10 There's a lot of money in those jobs.
02:28:11 --> 02:28:16 And you work your butt off on billable hours because it is hard to achieve the
02:28:16 --> 02:28:18 billable hours that they're looking for.
02:28:18 --> 02:28:23 And yeah, you get status and you get money, but you also have to deal with all this.
02:28:23 --> 02:28:30 And I am so hopeful. And I have those lawyers in my thoughts who have had to leave at that.
02:28:30 --> 02:28:33 You know, the universe is going to put you in the right place at the right time
02:28:33 --> 02:28:35 to do the thing that you were meant to do.
02:28:36 --> 02:28:40 And and good for them for leaving. Yeah, because, you know, that that was the
02:28:40 --> 02:28:44 point, you know, Melville was making to me is like, you know,
02:28:44 --> 02:28:45 it's one thing to lose clients.
02:28:46 --> 02:28:51 But if you start losing the lawyers, then it's like you can't even maintain
02:28:51 --> 02:28:54 the firm at this particular point. I appreciate the angle, Tracy,
02:28:54 --> 02:28:56 that you were bringing in about.
02:28:57 --> 02:29:01 Maybe this Jedi mind trick kind of thing where it's like, yeah,
02:29:01 --> 02:29:07 we can say that we're going to give so many hours, but knowing that there will
02:29:07 --> 02:29:10 be a conflict and we really can't do that.
02:29:10 --> 02:29:15 See, but the only reason why I don't I don't I don't jive with that is because
02:29:15 --> 02:29:19 Donald Trump's got his hands in so much dirty stuff.
02:29:19 --> 02:29:26 Him, his family, his associates, all these guys, you know, and I'm looking at
02:29:26 --> 02:29:27 this whole cryptography.
02:29:27 --> 02:29:33 Thing, I'm thinking most of that, you know, all these emoluments that he's getting,
02:29:33 --> 02:29:41 that's what he's trying to, he's trying to build a legal team when the Democrats take over.
02:29:41 --> 02:29:47 Because if it was me, now maybe I'm too petty and that's probably why I'm not
02:29:47 --> 02:29:48 in elected politics anymore.
02:29:48 --> 02:29:54 But the minute that the Democrats, if they flip both houses,
02:29:55 --> 02:29:58 if they flip the house in the Senate, they're going to go after,
02:29:58 --> 02:30:00 in my mindset, they would be going after impeachment.
02:30:01 --> 02:30:06 And what Donald Trump is doing, it seems like he's blackmailing these firms and say, OK,
02:30:07 --> 02:30:12 when the Democrats come at me this time, I'm going to have these white shoe
02:30:12 --> 02:30:17 lawyers coming in, the best law firms or at that time, the best law firms in D.C.
02:30:17 --> 02:30:21 Walking into the Capitol building and trying to defend me against, you know,
02:30:22 --> 02:30:25 whatever impeachment or whatever charges they're going to bring against me or
02:30:25 --> 02:30:32 Pam Bundy or cash Patel or Pete Hex of it, you know, any one of these,
02:30:32 --> 02:30:33 these cast of characters, right.
02:30:34 --> 02:30:37 I think that's what, that's what he's lining this up to do.
02:30:37 --> 02:30:43 I think he, you know, his, his end game is always get out of jail free. That's that. I.
02:30:44 --> 02:30:47 I was going to say, I agree and disagree simultaneously. I agree that,
02:30:47 --> 02:30:52 yes, he's definitely, you know, trying to create basically a mini task force
02:30:52 --> 02:30:55 of attorneys to protect him in the future.
02:30:55 --> 02:30:59 But also, remember the executive order that just came out around,
02:30:59 --> 02:31:02 you know, law enforcement and all of that.
02:31:02 --> 02:31:08 And basically, he is going to have these firms or attorneys are going to be
02:31:08 --> 02:31:13 provided to law enforcement members who, and I'm paraphrasing,
02:31:13 --> 02:31:19 but basically who end up getting prosecuted for, you know, executing their duties
02:31:19 --> 02:31:21 and being, you know, tough on crime and all of this.
02:31:21 --> 02:31:26 Read between the lines. Department of Justice basically no longer has a civil rights division.
02:31:26 --> 02:31:30 Like the name is there, but they're not doing the typical work of,
02:31:30 --> 02:31:35 you know, going after police departments that have a pattern in practice of
02:31:35 --> 02:31:38 abusing marginalized communities or things like that.
02:31:38 --> 02:31:43 So they came in in the wake of Louisville, Memphis, like every single high profile
02:31:43 --> 02:31:47 police brutality case, the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division would,
02:31:47 --> 02:31:49 you know, come in and investigate.
02:31:49 --> 02:31:54 So in this new executive order, he's basically like, no, I'm going to up the
02:31:54 --> 02:31:59 ante. I want cops to go out and brutalize these communities and that I'm going
02:31:59 --> 02:32:01 to have these white shoe firms defend them.
02:32:02 --> 02:32:07 And so rather than having the DOJ prosecute them, he's going to find ways to
02:32:07 --> 02:32:12 defend them, which then incentivizes more racial profiling and more abuse of
02:32:12 --> 02:32:13 marginalized communities.
02:32:13 --> 02:32:16 So I think it's multifold.
02:32:16 --> 02:32:22 It's protecting himself, but it's also throwing a bone to the corrupt members
02:32:22 --> 02:32:27 of law enforcement who want to abuse people. Yes.
02:32:27 --> 02:32:32 Also in their whole craziness around immigration and doing all these sweeps.
02:32:33 --> 02:32:36 And, oh, my gosh, I stopped someone. Oh, well, it turned out to be a U.S. citizen.
02:32:37 --> 02:32:40 Yeah, they didn't tell me that. And next thing you know, they're sitting there
02:32:40 --> 02:32:42 in custody, in ICE custody for a week.
02:32:42 --> 02:32:44 And mom and everybody's here like, here's a birth certificate.
02:32:45 --> 02:32:47 Here's a Social Security card. What do you mean?
02:32:47 --> 02:32:50 Which already has happened in the state of Florida. I mean, it's happened in
02:32:50 --> 02:32:51 a few different places already.
02:32:51 --> 02:32:56 Arizona. So basically, when those people finally turn around and sue and be
02:32:56 --> 02:33:00 like, OK, this was a wrongful detention, I was racially profiled,
02:33:00 --> 02:33:07 he will now trot out these big firms to defend the racist policies that he's
02:33:07 --> 02:33:09 setting forth. Yeah, exactly.
02:33:09 --> 02:33:13 Because that executive order, there's a word that's used in there and it jumped
02:33:13 --> 02:33:18 right off the page at me and it said the Department of Justice will indemnify law enforcement.
02:33:18 --> 02:33:24 And I sat there and I thought about that word for like hours and unconsciously
02:33:24 --> 02:33:26 for hours, indemnified.
02:33:26 --> 02:33:29 Like you're going to be indemnified are you going
02:33:29 --> 02:33:32 to be what we're going to be paying the damages that
02:33:32 --> 02:33:35 that juries award you know because that's what that sounds
02:33:35 --> 02:33:38 like but indemnified can also mean that that
02:33:38 --> 02:33:46 you'll you may get counsel from from these firms and i mean i a lot of these
02:33:46 --> 02:33:52 cases are brought in state court first and again i these firms are big they
02:33:52 --> 02:33:57 have the capacity and the resources to dump 17 documents on you in a click.
02:33:58 --> 02:34:03 But, you know, there are ways around this. There are ways small firms do an excellent job.
02:34:03 --> 02:34:07 You know, all you need is a little bit of passion and you can take these firms
02:34:07 --> 02:34:10 on. You also have document reviewing attorneys.
02:34:11 --> 02:34:13 I've noticed on LinkedIn, I don't know if you've noticed this,
02:34:13 --> 02:34:19 Melba, but there are lots of companies that are sort of jumping up for document
02:34:19 --> 02:34:21 review that I haven't seen before.
02:34:21 --> 02:34:25 And you can contract as an attorney to be a document-reviewing attorney where
02:34:25 --> 02:34:29 you get this online link and you just start, like,
02:34:29 --> 02:34:34 tagging documents that may have something to do and is relevant for the thing
02:34:34 --> 02:34:37 that they're at issue in the case.
02:34:38 --> 02:34:42 So I don't think it's hopeless. I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that,
02:34:42 --> 02:34:46 but I don't think it's hopeless. But I also think that...
02:34:47 --> 02:34:51 You know, his power is waning, even though he's using it.
02:34:53 --> 02:35:01 And people who supported him are turning, slowly turning, and he's calling them stupid.
02:35:01 --> 02:35:05 The other day we heard that, you know, he was questioned about people,
02:35:06 --> 02:35:08 you know, your supporters are saying that they didn't vote for this.
02:35:08 --> 02:35:11 And he said, oh, yes, they did. I campaigned on it.
02:35:12 --> 02:35:15 So what he said in that sentence was, you're stupid.
02:35:16 --> 02:35:20 And people don't take kindly to that. I mean, and we're going to be in a situation
02:35:20 --> 02:35:22 here where the economy is crashing.
02:35:23 --> 02:35:27 And once that happens, you can have all the law enforcement you want.
02:35:28 --> 02:35:35 Frankly, there's more of us than there is of them. So I am hopeful that the
02:35:35 --> 02:35:44 parade of horribles that I see in the very accurate description given by Melba will not pay out.
02:35:44 --> 02:35:47 It won't happen, but I am prepared for it.
02:35:47 --> 02:35:57 And that's, I'm almost speechless because it's like, as diabolical as that sounds,
02:35:57 --> 02:36:01 excuse me, that's a reality that we're going to have to deal with.
02:36:01 --> 02:36:06 So I don't want to I don't want to end the conversation on such a dire note.
02:36:07 --> 02:36:13 What what can people do within the law to kind of protect themselves?
02:36:14 --> 02:36:18 Are you are y'all involved with discussions with people?
02:36:18 --> 02:36:24 You know, you said it kind of jokingly, but, you know, those of us who do this
02:36:24 --> 02:36:31 little podcast and my little podcast, I'll probably be like 20 before on the warrant list.
02:36:31 --> 02:36:35 But, you know, I mean, what can people do to kind of protect themselves at this
02:36:35 --> 02:36:41 particular point as far as protecting their right to speak and,
02:36:41 --> 02:36:45 you know, just, you know, making sure that they have due process?
02:36:45 --> 02:36:50 Because one of the things, the examples I liked was the fact that that young
02:36:50 --> 02:36:56 man that was in Vermont who was going to take a citizenship test and he gets
02:36:56 --> 02:36:59 detained, you know, at the courthouse.
02:37:00 --> 02:37:03 And he's like literally just that one step away.
02:37:03 --> 02:37:08 Once he passes that test, he gets to take the oath and they detained him.
02:37:08 --> 02:37:13 And if it wasn't for the people in the community, you know, being aware of that
02:37:13 --> 02:37:19 situation and doing all those steps that they needed, he would have been in
02:37:19 --> 02:37:21 general Louisiana like everybody else.
02:37:21 --> 02:37:28 And so or somewhere else. And so, you know, I take that as one of the positive things we can do.
02:37:28 --> 02:37:33 But real quick, anything that y'all can think of that that people should be
02:37:33 --> 02:37:34 doing to kind of protect themselves?
02:37:35 --> 02:37:40 Super quick, number one, know your rights. That starts with know your constitutional rights.
02:37:41 --> 02:37:45 Download the Constitution app, read it, okay?
02:37:45 --> 02:37:48 Pays very special attention to the amendments, okay?
02:37:48 --> 02:37:52 Because those are the things that will, you know, that you can use to argue
02:37:52 --> 02:37:54 for, you know, even in the moment.
02:37:54 --> 02:37:58 Because sometimes cops will back down if you're like, you know,
02:37:58 --> 02:37:59 this is unconstitutional.
02:37:59 --> 02:38:02 No, I don't have to give you my ID. Am I free to go?
02:38:02 --> 02:38:07 Am I in custody? I'm not, goodbye. And you can turn around and walk away.
02:38:07 --> 02:38:11 People don't know that. In terms of ICE shows up at the house with a warrant,
02:38:12 --> 02:38:13 is it an administrative warrant?
02:38:13 --> 02:38:17 Or is it a judicial warrant? Because a judicial warrant, yeah,
02:38:17 --> 02:38:18 they can kick down your door.
02:38:18 --> 02:38:20 An administrative warrant, they sure can.
02:38:21 --> 02:38:26 So if you don't let them, you have the right to not let them into your home
02:38:26 --> 02:38:27 if it's an administrative warrant.
02:38:28 --> 02:38:32 So those are the nuances that people have to be aware of. Because,
02:38:32 --> 02:38:35 again, you may be giving them latitude when they don't have the power,
02:38:35 --> 02:38:38 and now you've put yourself in a situation.
02:38:38 --> 02:38:42 Lastly, I would say that I've seen this. I've read about this either in San
02:38:42 --> 02:38:46 Diego, I believe, where they're now starting to do community patrols.
02:38:46 --> 02:38:49 And they're looking to see, okay, is there ICE activity?
02:38:50 --> 02:38:55 And they would turn around and report that to the undocumented members of their community.
02:38:55 --> 02:39:00 And, like, you know, basically it's almost like underground railroad type stuff, right?
02:39:00 --> 02:39:05 And we've got to take those lessons from Reconstruction, from enslavement,
02:39:05 --> 02:39:10 from the first civil rights movement and dust them off and tweak them for today.
02:39:10 --> 02:39:14 We've got, you know, we've got Internet. We've got Signal.
02:39:14 --> 02:39:18 We've got all of these different ways that we can communicate effectively that
02:39:18 --> 02:39:22 they didn't have back in the day when they were like sending out a passenger
02:39:22 --> 02:39:25 pigeon to let people know like, hey, we ride at dawn, right?
02:39:25 --> 02:39:28 So, you know, it's about coming together in community,
02:39:29 --> 02:39:33 knowing your rights and defending each other, because this is not the time for
02:39:33 --> 02:39:39 us to be in silos talking about, well, because, listen, if it's the Latin community
02:39:39 --> 02:39:42 that's going now, trust and believe the Black community is right behind, right?
02:39:42 --> 02:39:48 And then after that, they're going to come find, you know, poor white people.
02:39:48 --> 02:39:53 But yeah, so, you know, we all have to realize that our fortunes and our futures
02:39:53 --> 02:39:56 are intertwined. And if we don't know that, we're done.
02:39:57 --> 02:40:03 I 100% agree. I'm going to add to that. Know the difference between a politician and an activist.
02:40:04 --> 02:40:07 Politicians are reformists. They work in a system. They're subject to rules
02:40:07 --> 02:40:09 and procedures and the norms of their system.
02:40:10 --> 02:40:15 And we can't have them arrested and not able to vote because some of these votes
02:40:15 --> 02:40:17 will come down to one or two votes.
02:40:18 --> 02:40:20 They're doing their job that you sent them there to do.
02:40:21 --> 02:40:25 Job is to be the activist, and activists work outside the system.
02:40:25 --> 02:40:31 And so it's on the people. No revolution, if you will, has ever been started by a politician.
02:40:31 --> 02:40:36 It's always been started by the people, and politicians then get on board.
02:40:36 --> 02:40:41 So I urge people to understand the difference and stop attacking the people
02:40:41 --> 02:40:47 that you need to help in the system that exists. You can work outside the system.
02:40:47 --> 02:40:50 Second, I'm talking specifically to the legal community.
02:40:50 --> 02:40:55 One of the things that has frustrated me is that we have been in a situation
02:40:55 --> 02:41:01 where people are waiting until the bad thing happens, and then they pursue litigation.
02:41:01 --> 02:41:05 I love a declaratory judgment. I love a declaratory judgment.
02:41:05 --> 02:41:09 And I think attorneys need to actively step up, engage in pro bono work,
02:41:09 --> 02:41:14 and start helping these communities seek declaratory judgment so that we can
02:41:14 --> 02:41:18 protect these communities. because we know what he's going to do and we know what he's done.
02:41:19 --> 02:41:25 I think that during the pandemic, we formed these little pods of people.
02:41:25 --> 02:41:30 And I think it's time that we need to establish democracy pods.
02:41:31 --> 02:41:35 Know your neighbors. Know who they are. Protect them.
02:41:37 --> 02:41:41 Them, they will protect you. And what I mean by that is, I'll give you a good
02:41:41 --> 02:41:43 example. I live in Los Angeles.
02:41:43 --> 02:41:45 We go through fire season like
02:41:45 --> 02:41:49 24-7 now, but we had some really bad fires in the city of Los Angeles.
02:41:49 --> 02:41:54 And there was a fire about, I don't know how far away, it was probably less
02:41:54 --> 02:41:57 than a mile away from me, up at Runyon Canyon.
02:41:57 --> 02:42:01 And immediately we all gathered outside trying to figure out,
02:42:01 --> 02:42:03 is this going to be, is this coming at us? And it was coming at us.
02:42:04 --> 02:42:05 Is this something that we need to bug out for.
02:42:06 --> 02:42:08 And we all had a plan of how we
02:42:08 --> 02:42:11 were going to help each other and who was going to take who and what car.
02:42:11 --> 02:42:15 And I think that's really important that you be thinking about looking out for
02:42:15 --> 02:42:18 the person in your community.
02:42:19 --> 02:42:22 And when I say community, I mean, know your neighbor. Know the name.
02:42:22 --> 02:42:24 Some of us don't know the names of our neighbors.
02:42:24 --> 02:42:28 Know who they are. Check in on them. Make sure they're okay.
02:42:29 --> 02:42:33 Because we're going to have to stand up for other people. And if you have power
02:42:33 --> 02:42:37 and agency, I have power and agency, it's all relative, but I have power and
02:42:37 --> 02:42:39 agency, I'm going to stand up for you.
02:42:40 --> 02:42:44 And I hope that you'll stand up for me. And if we all sort of link arms that
02:42:44 --> 02:42:47 way, it's going to make a difference moving forward.
02:42:48 --> 02:42:53 The other thing is, I just want to point out, is that law school applications are on the rise.
02:42:53 --> 02:42:56 And I read this dumb article. I don't know which publication it was in.
02:42:56 --> 02:42:58 And they were talking about it. And they said it was because of the economy.
02:42:58 --> 02:43:01 Now, historically, yes, when the economy goes crappy, people go to school.
02:43:02 --> 02:43:05 No, people want to be lawyers because they want to help.
02:43:05 --> 02:43:09 That's what's happening, is that people are angry and they want to help.
02:43:09 --> 02:43:10 They want to make a difference.
02:43:10 --> 02:43:16 And so if you are interested in making a difference, go find a nonprofit. They need your help.
02:43:16 --> 02:43:22 Go help. Go help the ACLU. Go help the various nonprofits that exist in your
02:43:22 --> 02:43:24 community that you're interested in.
02:43:24 --> 02:43:29 And volunteer, because there is so much work that needs to be done,
02:43:29 --> 02:43:32 and they don't have enough people to do it.
02:43:32 --> 02:43:36 All right. Well, thank you. Thank you, ladies, for that.
02:43:36 --> 02:43:42 Melba and Dr. Tracy, the podcast law firm are Pearson and Pearson.
02:43:42 --> 02:43:49 I thank y'all for coming on and not only enlightening me, but enlightening the
02:43:49 --> 02:43:54 audience as far as where we are and what we can do, because I think that's the most important thing.
02:43:54 --> 02:43:57 So I thank y'all for coming on and doing that.
02:43:57 --> 02:44:00 And we'll, it looks like we're going to have to get together soon,
02:44:00 --> 02:44:06 but you know, I'll reach out and we'll figure it out. Always a pleasure, Erik.
02:44:07 --> 02:44:12 Thank you, Erik. We love your audience and we're glad that you give us this platform.
02:44:12 --> 02:44:15 So absolutely, I'm happy to come back. Anytime.
02:44:16 --> 02:44:18 All right, guys, we're going to catch y'all on the other side.
02:44:20 --> 02:44:30 Music.
02:44:30 --> 02:44:34 All right. And we are back. So real quick, I want to thank Julia Ismael,
02:44:36 --> 02:44:38 Sean Miller, and my good friends, Dr.
02:44:38 --> 02:44:44 Tracy and Melba, the podcast law firm of Pearson and Pearson for coming on.
02:44:44 --> 02:44:46 I hope that y'all got something out of that.
02:44:47 --> 02:44:53 I know I did. And I greatly appreciate y'all listening.
02:44:54 --> 02:44:59 Again, it was a long show, but I hope that you agree that it was well worth it.
02:45:00 --> 02:45:07 So thank you for indulging on that. I won't get into any real commentary in
02:45:07 --> 02:45:12 closing out, but I just want to remind y'all, we're still trying to get 20
02:45:12 --> 02:45:13 subscribers on Patreon.
02:45:13 --> 02:45:19 And maybe when we have long episodes like this, what I had been doing was going
02:45:19 --> 02:45:23 on Patreon and offering a commentary so people that subscribe can listen.
02:45:24 --> 02:45:28 So definitely gonna have to get back to doing that.
02:45:28 --> 02:45:32 But please, please, please, the sooner we can get to 20,
02:45:32 --> 02:45:34 the sooner that you will be guaranteed
02:45:34 --> 02:45:40 that this podcast will be on for as ever long as it needs to be.
02:45:40 --> 02:45:44 All right. So, again, thank you all for listening. Until next time.
02:45:46 --> 02:46:32 Music.