PCGVR Director Eric Marsh Sr. talks Community Advocacy, Million Man March, Black Fatherhood

What's up, y'artist has Doug E Fresh and you're watching and we talk weekly. You'll listener. Right here. And we have our next guest that we're super excited to have one. He was here once before. We got him again because you want to talk to him. So class lady, who do we have to date? Who do we have to deg? Today? We have Eric Marsh Senior. He's a powerhouse that y'all. Y'all heard that powerhouse community leader with nearly three decades of driving impact across Philadelphia and was formerly the chairman of the Mayor's Commission of African American Males. Now leading operations at the Philadelphia Center for Gun Violence Reporting. He continues to shift narratives, he elevates voices, and he champions justice and trust me, there's so much more we need to unpack. Y'all already know what to do. Let's give a warm we talk weekly. Welcome to mister Eric Marsh. It's a fact I've left out a whole lot. Yeah, you know what I mean. I'm just really glad to be here, extremely honored that you guys invited me to be back. And let's see what we're gonna talk about. Your previous guests talked about an eclectic musician, it might be an eclectic interview. So let's see what we can get into, no doubt, no doubt. So you know, we're super excited to have you on, and you know you are already a friend to the show, so that's a great thing already. But you know what, let's start with this because we had asked him questions as it relates to AI, and that has been a huge topic, not only in the city, but we're talking about the world right now is rapidly growing, and you know, there has been conversation based around what are the things that people are most interested in as it relates to AI. And we had an article up and one of the things that people were saying some of the top topics to explore to increase understanding the AI was what AI is or is not right, what AI is actually good at, how AI tools are trained, the difference between human made and artificial made, and the link between AI and the environment, right, and so top topics that was some of the top topics that people were interested in. But top AI topics reader were most curious about, right, which was really interesting was how the spot AI generated content two news and information misinformation. Three, privacy and security, How AI is being used around me, jobs and the economy, and how to use AI safely and responsibly. And so those were the topics that people were most curious in. When it comes to you, right, and I mentioned AI to you, right, what would be in the scope of understanding AI or things that's most interested to you or concerned you? What would that be? So I'm going to start off by saying, I am not an expert in AI, but Y'ah invited me because I got an opinion about everything. First of all, let me just say, you know, there's multiple layers to answering that question, because I think we all should be concerned about AI. You know, one of the things that we have. Seen more and more of over the years. Particularly coming out of Silicon Valley and the tech bros and people who are innovating in technology, is oftentimes these things are really cool. They can make your lives easier, but they aren't often equally distributed, right, So not everybody has equal access to them. And then those that do have access to them are often not people who are from disenfranchised or underprivileged communities. Right, And so our mutual friend Chris Naris actually just gave a decent, a really really good interview about this recently, where we talked about the concern from the economic side, like, those who are benefiting from AI are often not folks that look like us. Right, even if you do get to the point where you start coding, the platforms are already out there. The platforms are starting to be valued in the billions of dollars at this point. And so I think as a community, not as a communal Let me back up, because I like to talk about us as human beings, right, if we start from a human perspective. First of all, AI data centers are horrible for the environment. They use a lot of water. They're often you know, not necessarily polluting the water, but they're using the water to cool those servers, which is a huge concern to people who are aware of the environmental impact. So that's one The economic side of it is that, you know, yes, could it take our jobs. Possibly. There's still a lot of areas of concern or like some gray area in terms of what AI can do and what AI can't. Obviously it's going to impact the job markets. Definitely, a lot of proponents of AI are saying, well, if you want to secure your job, then learn AI, right, get better at it than your competitor, and that'll secure you someplace. But that's a zero sum game, right, it doesn't make space for all of us. And I think it's it's indicative of the problem with capitalism in the US is that many times technology will come up and it's a race to adopt it without understanding the moral implications but beyond the environmental and the economic implication. So that's a lot and there's a lot thing. But yeah, we can we can definitely start off with learning what it is. It's becoming harder and harder identify AI generated content. And then those of us, like us in this room, who are creators of some kind, right, we should be worried because our creations are getting taken and manipulated and used, right, And so I think everybody should should be concerned, not like take out the torches and you know, burn down the technology, but definitely pressure folks who are in city government, in federal government, folks who are looking at the ethics of technology and really pushing the issue about making sure that this is simply a tool that everybody can use and not a lever to widen a gap on the economic gap between wealthy folks and not wealthy. Just for the record, Eric was not here when we were talking about it, Like he hit on everything we were saying about environment about it's. The same, you know the thing, it's not crazy because we everyone is talking about these same concerns and issues. But again, there is a morality that we are not adopting when we adopt technology, and so the moral concerns that are coming up are concerns that everybody has. The problem is that, you know, it's the shiny object syndrome. Everybody sees this technology. Oh, I can put my face in all of these different paintings that I can. I can do this thing with my image and my children's image, And meanwhile it's owned by somebody else. Now your face is now on somebody else's server forever, right, your information is out there on somebody else's So yeah, there's a lot of people who have been concerned about this. And plus let me just say, like I'm a super blurred I'm a geek. I love my sci fi stuff. You know, people have been talking about the concern about artificial intelligence for decades. We just talked about that. Yes, it's not it's not a new concern, and so my hope is that you know, we can put in place some of those guardrails to make sure that we're centering humanity and how humans use this technology over the technology using humans. There you go either either you want to use or it is going to use you. That's one of the things that I always say, uh, and I appreciate that. I appreciate that input on it. One of the one of the things that I just want to back up and you know, just as the ecosystem that you're in as it relates to you know, gun violence and you know, things that we see on platforms like no gun Zone. One of the major topics that has been circulating in crime has happened not even in Philadelphia, right, And we were talking about these young men from Philadelphia that we were unfortunately uh involve often a crime and Sparkle did a story about it and we one of the things that stood out for us was the matter of fact response from you know, the the sheriff in in showing you know, the young kids' faces and that was one of the you know, one of the biggest issues that we had. I would love to know, you know, with your lens, your your crime lens on, your your background lens in assessing this whole situation, what did you see, how did you how do you believe it should have been handled? And what do you believe Philadelphia's take should be as it relates to that. So, first of all, I'm gonna just state clearly that you know the opinions that I share of mine personally and not representative of my employer any other organization. This is my personal opinion. Yeah, you know, because because it's important. First of all, it's important not just because I have respect for my team and my colleagues and the work that they do, but also we live in a volatile society, right, very litigious or society, as your example of the story points out, and what's happened even worse, what we are seeing is nothing new, right. What we're seeing by those young boys being put out on the front page, by having their full names and faces broadcasts out in the news, is not new behavior. Right. There is a belief in society, particularly in America, that we're a meritocracy, right, and you are successful because of the work that you put in and you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and the reverse of at is also accepted, but we don't talk enough about it that if you have a hard time, if you get in trouble, you get arrested, is your fault too. And we know that there's a history of black boys being over policed and over criminalized and their behaviors being more harshly punished. Right, this is just a society we live in, and so none of us should be surprised that it's actually put out there like that in terms of what Philadelphia's response should be. Listen, it's it's hard for me to say, because you know, as a parent, the last thing that I would want is for my son to have an opportunity to travel to another city, another state, to get an opportunity based on that that is supposed to enrich his life and enrich his experience and like lead to a step to a better career, better future, and then for him to waste that by doing something as dumb as what. These boys did. So that's that's the first thing. My heart goes out to the parents of these children. We're not having an of conversation about that. Second, of all, the law enforcement that did do that should have first of all informed the families first if they didn't, and then because these young men I'm not sure their ages, but to me it looks like they are all eighteen or. Younger, between thirteen and fifteen. That's insane. So just the fact that they are now being broadcast and labeled as criminals is actually illegal based on the fact that they are under age, right, So that should have been approach. Their parents should have been brought in from the door. But again it's I will never get into a situation where I will publicly blame these boys for what they did. We all know that what they did was But the fact that they are being treated, they are being hung out to dry, they're being used as an examples, it's something that we really need to look at and examine. And I think it's we see it happening more and more right, and so we should be ultimately concerned about the behavior of that law enforcement department, the leadership, and that law enforcement And I'm sure there's there's there's going to be some response, whether it's a lawsuit or whether it's a protest or something, because that's how you uphold your rights, right. You can't just let people do this to you and your children. Yeah, that's I'm not gonna get too much. But yeah, starting with the with the parents and the fact that these these are still a little boys. I don't know the details in terms of how they got into that situation and how they got out of hand. Obviously, you know, back in my day, it would have been a whooping from somewhere when you got. Home, no question about it, no question about it. And the neighbors I would have got to beat from the neighbors. And my aunts and all that. I mean, the coach that took everybody would have carte blanche. But that's a whole another Like we live in a different society now, different. Expectations, and this genre, now, this generation would hear that and say, see that was abuse, that was abuse. Back then, you shouldn't have got a beat into a certain level. They should have talked to you, learned why you did it, you. Know what I'm saying. Like, it's just so different now. Even when you make those type of like that's my generation, you're behind with the guy with I don't care why you did it. Yeah, but now this generation, someone would hear that, and even those who are a little mind, you know, brainwashed, would say, oh see that's the problem. That's why they're probably doing it, you know what I mean, just playing Devil's at No. No, there's definitely a range, right, And let me just let me just back up and say, you know, I'm not advocating for that. What I'm saying is that, as a matter of fact, because of the nature of the country that we live in. I heard somebody say this recently. You know, a lot of that really punitive, harsh behavior, those punishments that we received from our from our parents, our parents received from their parents was an effort to actually keep us aligned and protect us from the white society, from the larger society because they would be even more harsh, right, And so the pendulum swings back and forth on a basis. Yeah, I do have a question. I know. All right, so you've been doing this, as the bio said, thirty years, I've been doing something for for three decades. It was like that's yeah, yeah, well, I'm not aging you. I'm just saying like, even as when you were younger, you were probably the person that your friends came to you to talk about their life, things that's going on in their life and say hey, this is going on, and then looked at you for your opinion. Actually, actually, no, Actually what happened was, you know, I was a parent at an early age. I was a father figured to my oldest daughter who's now thirty five, right, and wanting to do that job. We wanted to fill that role better, had me looking for services, had me at her school, have me doing things. And then when my oldest son, Eric Junior, was born, I was a single parent, and so I was often the only man in a lot of these social services organizations, and I went through a welfare to work program. I did all of these things, first of all to take care of my son and to not be out on the corner like we hear the stereotypical narrative. Right, I got to feed my kids, but there's a certain way to do that, right, And so trying to navigate the system, I personally ran into a lot of roadblocks and pain points, and I made a vow to help as many other men as possible not have to experience the same thing I experienced. And so that was It wasn't like somebody came to me. It was like, Eric, how you do such and such? It was after the fact where I found myself in rooms and I was like, yo, bruh, don't fill that form out like that, go over here and do this, or don't go out there and don't get mad because they. Turned you down for this. This is how you go about it right, And putting people on game and like helping them navigate these systems was really one of the most important things that I got a chance to do. And again, you know, I didn't grow up with my father present and active in the house. We had a relationship. I knew who he was. I have memories of my father, But when I became a father, I there was so many things that I felt imagine, if I had somebody to teach me these things, where would I be in life now? And so I made a point to try to give my son those things. And in the process of doing it, I had to show up. I had to get information right, and I had to it just made sense for me to share it with other people. And that's pretty much what I've been doing for the last thirty years. Okay, the three decades. That was my question. Now, how did you get into wow? An amazing dad? Trying? Yeah, you're a very active dad, very active, supportive, and you you have your your son engaged in a lot of the work that you're doing from you know, of course the media literacy side of the journalism, understanding the nuances of even you know, crime and criminal justice. And do you feel that that's because potentially your father didn't do that? Why do you feel like you're so? I guess all fathers should be super engaged, but you're you take a different approach in that you're in all aspects you support your son and you're very engaged. What do you think why do you think that is? Well? One of the first and most important reasons is, like I said, I started off as a single parent, right, and so I had to be everything now again, shout out to my mother, God bless her, because my mother was there through thick and thin from day one. Right now, my son and my mother are like the clothing, thickest thess right that I can't separate. It at this point. Matter of fact, they didn't thrown me to the curb and now they just hang out, right. But because he didn't have the other side to lean on, because I didn't have his mother to lean on. And again I don't talk trash about her, anything negative she's around. She's a mother's he has a relationship with her, he loves her. But because as men, you know, we get told we got to be the providers, we got to be the perfectors, and so I had to carry all of that. And I actually had a conversation earlier today where I encourage parents to apologize to their children, because I had to go back and apologize to my son because I was. The only parent there. So you know, when I was stressed, he saw the stress. When I was frustrated, he saw the front and so and a lot of times as parents, we let that spill over onto our children. And so, yeah, I had to go back and apologize because I was figuring it out right along with him. But the reason right goes back to again, I was the only one there, and so on the flip side, I also, even though I do a lot of work with my nonprofit, the Fathering Circle, and we also do work with mothers and women right, part of our mission statement is that we help men and male caregivers examine male socialization and its impact on women and children, right, because without that partner, things are twice as hard, sometimes three times as hard, and it's often something that's easily correctable, like we to be able to have a partner there when you're raising a child. A child needs that. I mean, we already see the examples of what's happening. Going back to what I was saying about my role in wanting to fill in the gaps and my father didn't. I often talk to men about the fact that how many of you played sports, how many of you had a coach? Right, what did that help? What that coach help you get to? And where would you be in that same sport if you didn't have that coach, right, everybody can admit I wouldn't be nowhere near as good. Think about that, and when it comes to the role of being a file, right, you are literally a guide or a coach. You're the first trainer, you're the folks first pep talk cheerly. You know, you get a chance to be all of those things for your child so that they can then elevate. But oftentimes what happens is we are as men encouraged to go to work. It's all about how much money we make and what we bring into the household, and so we can't work all the time and make a lot of money to take care of the family and be in the household and be present. With the kids at the same time. It's an oxymoron, it's a catch twenty two. It's just not And so we get set up in a way that often leads to failure. You know, one of the number one reasons why couples break up is arguments over money, right, because the family needs resources. So it's like, we got to come to some agreement on how we're going to do this thing. And I talked to a lot of men about that, about being able to find that balance and that your self worth as a man, and this is how we're told that our self worth is directly connected to our net worth. But when it comes to a child, we keep hearing about love child. You just need to be there, you need to be present, right, and so we've got to figure out that balance. What's your what's your opinion on now? With add ADHD, so many different things that our generation now sees like, oh, that's why I did that, or identifying that in a child who they may see it as a disruption or disturbance. But this child just has some type of special needs that hasn't been identified, and you know, like autism, a lot of times it's you know, you're you're now being forceful, which looks like it's being aggressive, but you're just frustrated because you're trying to communicate and no one understands you. What's your opinion on that. I want to I want to explore this much deeper because I feel like, you know, there's a lot of people that's talking nowadays, like while all of us and we got all of this ADHD and we never had it before. And one of reality is that testing is different, resources are different. Science has evolved over time, but also our society has become more and more narrowed in terms of the scope of resources and access and things that children do to be able to express themselves. Right, We're hearing the stories more often, we're seeing it. We're in a more concentrated society. Right, So, thirty forty years ago, a child with ADHD, and again I'm not an expert in this subject, but what I've see and hear and have learned from people who adults who have it as well as experts, is that you know, forty years ago, a child would have just been much better at the football team and it would have been more active in like sports and activities and doing all this other stuff in terms of what they what they feel comfortable with, or they would have been just labeled an introvert because they sit in the corner and draw by themselves. Right, So we won. We've had different labels for them over time, but two they had different outlets. Now, I think in the way that our education system is set up in the expectations of society. You know, we're cramming more and more kids into a smaller classroom and expecting them to sit still for a longer period of time, and that is the poor opposite of what anybody with ADHD and less activities. They put the blue screen in front of them exactly, and now it's like they take away all those other which. By the way, I was just looking at a report earlier today that talked about how our cognitive decline, our inability to focus for longer periods of time are a result of the smartphones and devices and the apps that we have. Because there it's asking, it's triggering a dopamine at a faster rate, more frequently. You're not allowed to languish and get into an in depth into something. So it's just, you know, I think sometimes and this is not any shade towards your questions, it's more to society at large and that we're often looking at the symptom as opposed to the problem. Right when we see incidences of ADHD and add coming up more and more frequently, we're saying, oh, there's more in kids, but we're not we're not questioning enough. I think we're questioning, but we're not questioning enough how technology and society has contributed to what we're seeing. I think that's I think that's something to be mindful of. I mean, I talk to a lot of my friends who are adults now and they talk a lot about anxiety that they feel, and it's just like, this is the daily level of anxiousness is hired than it was decades ago. Why because life is more stressful, there's more people around. Have you driven in like that. By I think they made the news for the worst. Did you see that? I saw that one of the top. Ten city number three, number three, number three. Chicago and New York, the two that are worse than Philly, Right, we. Also made the news. And I'm trying to say that Philadelphia wasn't one of the uh one of the sports towns in the nation. And of course Philadelphia, we went crazy because we say hello by saying gold Bert. We didn't even make the list. Somebody, whoever, whoever's list that is you nuts. I'm just gonna put it out there, whoever list that is. The trash Philly. How would would we be on there? And we want a Super Bowl. Like that right there? Didn't listen. I have been in other countries and seen somebody with Eagles green or it maybe like go Bert, like you know what I mean. We rep we wrapped worldwide. So so that was interesting that we had this time flowed, this time flew off. Wow, that was. Yeah, So I I did. I want to point some things out because this gentleman is super, super busy and I just want to give him accolades for a lot of the work that he does. And I'm constantly seeing him out here in the streets. I'm always yeah, yeah, I always see him, and he's just so busy. And I have the privilege of seeing a lot of the work that he does on LinkedIn and I've run into him and seeing a lot of the work that he does. But just sitting. We need to talk about some or just even recognize it. Yeah, but the what was it? The million Man March. The anniversary, Yesmber that talk about that. I mean, I can't take any credit for that. As a Philly Truce. The brothers who are part of started the organization Philly Truce went out of their way to make sure that Philadelphia commemorated the thirtieth anniversary of the Millionaire in March, and they did an outstanding job. In fact, early in the morning the weekend of the anniversary, there were three separate marches, so they actually had a march that started in North Philadelphia, one in West Philadelphia, and one in South Philadelphia, and they all converged on Love Park at the same time so that people all over the city could actually feel that camaraderie and actually show up and represent And so I can't tell you it was a beautiful experience just to be invited to be there and to speak, but to see the thousands of men that actually showed up at Love Park in the plaza and shout out to the brothers that came from across the country too, because it was a huge representation of men who showed up caught buses to come to Philadelphia to show their support and their love in Philadelphia. So Philly truths you get with the brothers Matt, Mazi and Steve and Philly Trups because they deserve all the credit behind that. Yeah, that just gave a whole new meaning to the phrase brotherly love. Like that just was amazing. And the other thing that I saw too was I'm sorry, I head, I was trying to go memory. I had the goog rightse of your LinkedIn page. I want to give y'all a shout out for being here on the cold Saturday, right, y'all got me out the house. I wasn't out in these streets, but I come out for y'all. The selection is the Columbia Journalism Fellowship and one of the fellows for twenty. Six Sealzburger Executive Leadership. Yeah, congrats, congrats. I'm I'm humble. Yes, yes, yes, you know it's nothing, but god, you know, I've had a really really incredible year this year. But this year was followed was following an incredibly trying and difficulty and so I prayed a lot and I'm grateful a Salzburger Executive Leadership program is extremely prestigious, and for somebody, you know, who has been told that to my face that I'm not a journalist, to be in this program means that somebody sees something in me. So I just want to be able to pass it on to others. And that that's so insane to hear when there's so many different levels to journalism, especially when you have like, uh, and this always sticks with me, a young lady who pulled out a phone and kept a man being murdered by a knee on his neck and she wins one of the top awards that every journalist dreams of winning, and she's not a journalist. She just pulled out her phone and captured the moment. And you want to tell somebody that they're not a journalist and they're doing the work. Yeah, yeah, Well I again, I don't. I don't pay attention to that negativity, but it does fuel my efforts. To show up and to be better at what I do. So my hope is that you know, through the work that I do at the Philadelphia Center for Gun Violence Reporting, you know, we specifically train journalists on how to cover gun violence more ethically and empathetically. And one of the reasons why journalism is struggling is because so many people have tuned out, amongst other reasons. But you know, there's a lot of people who are not voracious consumers of news content from traditional media outlets the way they. Were for years ago. This right, and so the game has to change, right, And so I'm fine if somebody considers not a journal So I'm fine with that. What matters is are we getting the news and information out to people? Like the work that you guys have been doing for years. I'm telling you, like y'all don't understand how proud I am to see the work that y'all do. Appreciate that and right there, Yeah, man, that's it's don't work out there, get your flowers. We're trying to do what we're trying to do, you know, we out there on the streets. But no, we definitely want to give your flowers. You've been doing the work out there. In fact, let's talk a little bit about you know, the organization and what have you been finding in terms of trends with gun violence. There's a lot of things changing as it relates to that. So what has your organization been finding and have been in talks in terms of combating a lot of this. Yeah, well you know again, PC GVR. We have three different components of the organizations. We have a multidisciplinary research collaborative that's headed by doctor Jessica Beard. She's the head of Trauma Surgery at Temple University, but she has been leading our research work for the last five plus almost six years now, and a lot of the research that she has done is actually groundbreaking because she's one of the first researchers that looks at the intersection between news media and gun violence. Interesting, right, And so we know that we have an impact. We know that the stories we consume, the information we consume, has an impact on us. But what we are at PCGVR are doing is that we are trying to train journalists in a different way of telling those stories again, a more human centered, fact driven storytelling that actually shows that gun violence is preventable and treating it as a public health crisis like many of the other public health crisis that existed in the history of this country. When we get together, we get a force behind it, and we get national report, we can end these and gun violence is actually a preventable issue. So let's talk a little bit about that, because I want to for someone, say, for example, a journalist that has been part of the legacy media that has been covering gun violence the way that they cover that, Now, what type of I guess tips would you give them to help them rebrand or retrain their minds in their reporting. Well, first of all, go to PCGVR dot org toolkit SLASH toolkit. We have a toolkit that anybody can download, not just journalists. That actually is a multi page toolkit with best practices and tips, and we actually have a one page document that says dos and don'ts. And one of the first things is don't do serialized reporting. When serialized reporting looks like you know, black man twenty years old shot this many times, no suspects of all, right on, no suspects arrested, that kind of reporting is not that doesn't convey any information that anybody can actually use. Right, it's traditional and it's standard. It's traditional standard. Yes, And part of the reason why well, part of the reason why a standard is because again this is no shade against journalists. Journalists have one of the hardest job in the world, and it's even harder because many of them are under unrealistic deadlines to turn out stories. And so if a violent crime happens, because of the nature of the country that we live in, it's instinctive to go to whatever authority is present. And if you go to a crime scene, particularly a homicide or a shooting, the police are often the only authority figures that are there and they have to do a report. And so many journalists just take the police report, which has just the facts, and then they turn that into a quote unquote story and then convey that. What we are saying is that we want journalists to take a little bit more time to understand the community, to talk to residents who are actually well versed in it, to talk to someone who is knowledgeable about the public health crisis of gun violence, someone who may either know the family, know both parties, know the victims. One of the reasons we have another program called Survivor Connection. Survivor Connection is actually training community members who have been directly impacted by gun violence, whether that means you yourself been if injured, or if you've lost the loved one. We take them through a half day training that includes media literacy and how do you talk to journalists? How do you understand what on the record and off the record means, how do you know how to prepare for questions and what are most likely questions that journalists are going to ask. And then the reason why we do that is because we are actually we want these community members to interrupt what we call the second trauma. Right. The first trauma is when you lose a loved one to gun violence, or when you're impacted by gun violence. That's the first trauma. Anybody that's experienced that knows that that can change your life forever. But the second trauma is often when the journalists show up, when the cameras and the microphones come out, when people knock on your door, or they want to get the most salacious story, or they want to get the fastest story. I've had so many mothers of murdered children say how the journalists got the name of their child wrong, or they got the facts wrong, their birthdays wrong, they got information that really is about a human being wrong, because they are in such a rush to actually turn that story in. Get the story out exactly real quick, because we only got about two more minutes. How can someone one of like a journalists or someone that really wants to get educated on. How to report. News based around that ecosystem. How would they do that? And is it a cast to get educated on that? Like, how do they go about that? What is a couple of ways? Like I said, PCGVR dot org is a wealth of information. We put out a weekly newsletter that also partners with outlets across the country like the Trace and The Guardian, many other news outlets. We also have the toolkit that's available. We just completed our not only our five year anniversary, but we just did our first Gun Violence Prevention Certification conference that saw over one hundred and fifty attendees come through. But in addition to that, if you are a journalist or if you're somebody that works in an adjacent to gun violence reporting, we have a membership organization called the Association of Gun Violence Prevention Reporters. That's a mouthful, but the website is AGVVR dot com AGVR dot com, and that is a membership organization that actually creates a social connection between journalists because journalists experienced trauma. Going out there. Imagine if that's your job and that's and you're on the beat to cover trauma and violence. Actually, if it's that if that's your community, your specific community, and you may even know the parents or family of the person who was injured or are you know transition because of that real quick? How can they get in contact you find out more about you and some of the work that you're doing. You can email me at my gmail is marsh Eric Senior, s R. For Senior marsh Eric Senior at gmail dot com. If you want to learn more about the Center for Gun Violence Reporting, you can visit PCGVR dot com and you can look up some of my fatherhood work on Instagram at the following circle. Fantastic. We talked weeklies after the talk on w pp M P Philadelphia one on six point five if and we talked weeklies after they talk with your boy Charles Gergen and beautiful class and the beautiful Laurence. Hey, this is if. We cannot be complete unless you listen to watch we talk. Please Believa