Ever thought about packing it all up and starting fresh under the palm trees? Well, today’s guest didn’t just think about it — he actually did it.
In this episode of Talk to Me Michele, I sit down with Big Will of Go Explore Panama, who’s been living his best expat life for over 15 years. He and his wife turned their move into a mission — helping others relocate, find community, and truly thrive in Panama.
We’re talking about everything you really want to know:
🌴 The truth about the relocation process (not just the Instagram version)
😂 The cultural surprises that’ll have you side-eyeing in Spanglish
💡 How to adjust, adapt, and enjoy life abroad — even when it gets a little messy
💰 The real cost of living (because paradise still comes with a price tag)
This conversation is funny, insightful, and refreshingly honest — perfect for anyone dreaming about a new start or just curious about what life in Panama really feels like.
So grab your drink, kick back, and let’s explore what it means to live boldly and build a new life in paradise.
🎧 Listen, laugh, and learn — because the dream life abroad starts with real talk.
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 You ever had that moment where you say you know what i
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 could just move to another country and start over well my
00:00:08 --> 00:00:13 guest today did exactly that and years later he's still living that dream life
00:00:13 --> 00:00:19 under the panama sun we're talking expat life culture shock and a few surprises
00:00:19 --> 00:00:28 they don't put on the relocation brochure this one's part travel inspiration part reality check Oh,
00:00:57 --> 00:01:00 who has been living in Panama before it was trending, y'all.
00:01:00 --> 00:01:04 Okay, he didn't move on a trend. He was there before it went that way.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:09 But Big Will from Go Explore Panama, he and his wife have been helping people
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 relocate, explore, and actually thrive in Panama for years.
00:01:12 --> 00:01:17 So if you've ever thought about packing up, trading the traffic in for tropical
00:01:17 --> 00:01:19 living, this is the episode for you.
00:01:19 --> 00:01:23 So it is my pleasure to bring in Big Will from Go Explore Panama.
00:01:24 --> 00:01:30 Buenas dias. Que sopa, misientes. How y'all doing? See, I don't feel so bad.
00:01:31 --> 00:01:36 It's a process. It's a process. It's a process. Look, I pre-endo Espanol.
00:01:36 --> 00:01:41 Yo hablo Espanol como un niño que tiene seis años.
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 That means I speak Spanish like a six-year-old boy.
00:01:45 --> 00:01:49 At least you're trying, okay? At least you got some form of communication.
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 And I'm sure where you being in Panama, you have to. got
00:01:52 --> 00:01:56 to you got to if you're going to be in panama uh knowing
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 a little bit of spanish is going to be the key to
00:01:59 --> 00:02:05 having a happy life you can live here and struggle and always translate but
00:02:05 --> 00:02:10 as soon as you start making an effort to speak their language the panamanians
00:02:10 --> 00:02:14 and the people here are going to be a lot more receptive to you and a lot more
00:02:14 --> 00:02:17 friendly to you and you know then you'll get to see some of the,
00:02:17 --> 00:02:21 you know, positive parts of personalities come out.
00:02:21 --> 00:02:25 If you just try to speak in English, they may ignore you, you know,
00:02:25 --> 00:02:29 wait to serve you because you're not even attempting night of trials.
00:02:29 --> 00:02:30 So please, please, please give it an effort.
00:02:31 --> 00:02:34 Yeah, please, y'all give it an effort. We don't want to go over there and just,
00:02:34 --> 00:02:37 you know, make it worse for ourselves when we try to explore this new peaceful
00:02:37 --> 00:02:40 chapter in our lives. So learn some Spanish.
00:02:40 --> 00:02:43 But I'm gonna get into this interview before we get into it.
00:02:44 --> 00:02:45 How long have you been in Panama?
00:02:46 --> 00:02:50 So, Alan, I appreciate the introduction. There were people here before me, no doubt.
00:02:51 --> 00:02:58 We've been here going on five years. We came in 21 during the midst of the COVID pandemic.
00:02:58 --> 00:03:02 That was one of the reasons that led to us leaving the U.S. because we just
00:03:02 --> 00:03:05 felt unsafe in so many different areas.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:09 And that was a major one, an ongoing global pandemic.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:13 So we've been here for a little minute, and it's been, It's an adjustment,
00:03:13 --> 00:03:14 but it's not a big adjustment.
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 It's adjustment being away from family and friends, not in terms of missing
00:03:19 --> 00:03:21 stuff. We have all the stuff here.
00:03:21 --> 00:03:26 But being distant from your family and friends, not being allowed for the little
00:03:26 --> 00:03:31 birthday parties and the graduations and stuff like that, that part gets a little difficult.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:38 But the bright side is tropical weather, you know, peace and tranquility,
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 cost of living, access to health care, better food, better air, better water.
00:03:44 --> 00:03:48 Everything's pretty much better except for the presence of family and friends.
00:03:48 --> 00:03:51 So, yes, I think it's a pretty good trade off.
00:03:51 --> 00:03:54 But, I mean, that's a commitment, though. I mean, because I want to know,
00:03:54 --> 00:03:59 was it love at first flight or did you question your life choices when that heat hit you?
00:04:01 --> 00:04:09 So, you know, when we came in 21, you know, Panama started out as a retirement destination for us.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:14 Me and one of my boys from college were trying to figure out where we could afford to retire.
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 We both were in the DMV, D.C. He was in Northern Virginia.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:22 I was in Prince George's County. and we knew we couldn't afford to retire in
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 that area so I'm giving him all the traditional,
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 USAs of like Arizona and Alabama all the
00:04:28 --> 00:04:32 places where I would have hated to have been politically but those are the cheap
00:04:32 --> 00:04:39 places to live so and he hit me with Panama and Belize you know Belize I've
00:04:39 --> 00:04:42 heard of I knew they spoke English I didn't know that much about Panama except
00:04:42 --> 00:04:46 for Noruega and the Canal so I clowned the crap out of my friend.
00:04:47 --> 00:04:48 We give each other a hard time,
00:04:49 --> 00:04:52 I clowned him, and then I went back and double-checked his work after I fed
00:04:52 --> 00:04:54 his clowning him. And I was like, oh, he was right. Infrastructure,
00:04:54 --> 00:04:56 U.S. dollar, health care.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:01 All that stuff. We had a list of retirement destinations.
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 Panama, Portugal, Belize, D.R., mutual suspects.
00:05:05 --> 00:05:09 Panama was first on our list. We decided that we were going to vacation and
00:05:09 --> 00:05:13 all these places to, you know, test drive if we could live there.
00:05:13 --> 00:05:17 And then the pandemic hit. I already bought the tickets to Panama.
00:05:17 --> 00:05:20 I'm a pandemic kid and we just kept moving the flights out.
00:05:21 --> 00:05:25 Got vaccinated, hit a flight two months later. When we came here,
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 you know, we had a list of red flags.
00:05:27 --> 00:05:31 At that point, it was like, hey, we got to pull the red cord.
00:05:31 --> 00:05:35 The ship is sinking. We need to get to lifeboats as soon as possible.
00:05:36 --> 00:05:40 And Panama hit all of the buttons. So love at first sight, yes.
00:05:40 --> 00:05:44 When we landed, you know, the first thing we saw was Panama City.
00:05:44 --> 00:05:50 And, you know, oh, my God, here's this huge urban monstrosity right by the ocean.
00:05:50 --> 00:05:54 And, you know, then I learned that they built all of this in 20 years.
00:05:54 --> 00:05:56 So I was just amazed by that.
00:05:56 --> 00:06:01 And, you know, seeing the doctors and the hospitals and everything put on mind
00:06:01 --> 00:06:03 at ease. And we didn't see a single red flag.
00:06:03 --> 00:06:06 So love at first sight. Love at first sight.
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 There's been some hiccups. We moved to the beaches at first.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:16 That was pretty cool. But, you know, for us, we like what the city offers.
00:06:16 --> 00:06:19 There are people that really love the beaches, but I don't think we're one of
00:06:19 --> 00:06:20 them. We go out there to visit.
00:06:21 --> 00:06:26 So, you know, it's all good. It's all good. People don't be mad at me. I know y'all get it.
00:06:27 --> 00:06:31 Everybody got a preference. I mean, you know, that's it.
00:06:31 --> 00:06:34 It's a personal preference. It's not a competition. But sometimes,
00:06:34 --> 00:06:37 some people here make it feel like a competition.
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 I mean, you know, black people, we've got to argue about something.
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 I don't know, spades, thylinoes, black.
00:06:44 --> 00:06:49 Don't get me started, okay? But I understand where you're coming from with that.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:54 But at the same time, you were able to launch Go Explore Panama with your wife.
00:06:54 --> 00:06:56 Now, how do you guys come up with that?
00:06:57 --> 00:07:02 So everything started from the YouTube show and the YouTube show started by accident.
00:07:03 --> 00:07:08 We were here for the site visit and on the day before we were turning home,
00:07:08 --> 00:07:13 we had a meeting, you know, I had a committee meeting and decided that this was the mood for us.
00:07:13 --> 00:07:18 So I went to pool, sat down and started talking to my camera for 45 minutes,
00:07:18 --> 00:07:22 trying to explain to my family and friends why we were making this decision.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:25 Cause I don't like explaining myself 15 million times. Look,
00:07:25 --> 00:07:29 I'm just going to send you to this YouTube channel, and you can watch it from there.
00:07:29 --> 00:07:37 And I've been using YouTube for years to share our family vacations and little
00:07:37 --> 00:07:40 clips, iPhone movies of our vacations and stuff.
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 So I already had stuff up on YouTube, but it was really just for family and
00:07:45 --> 00:07:47 friends. It was never for the general public.
00:07:47 --> 00:07:51 No one had ever watched any of my silly stuff. And then with this video that
00:07:51 --> 00:07:56 I made from Panama, all of a sudden I checked back in and had like 1 views.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:00 And I'm like, who are these people watching me talk? I don't understand myself.
00:08:01 --> 00:08:05 By that time, Sonya was telling me about some of her YouTube people because
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 she turned me on to YouTube.
00:08:08 --> 00:08:12 This is really all credit to her. And once I realized that it was an income
00:08:12 --> 00:08:17 generating thing, I looked at it as possibly being able to support ourselves
00:08:17 --> 00:08:19 here in Panama. So both of us
00:08:19 --> 00:08:23 were moving with remote jobs, but you never know what's going to happen.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:26 And it's always nice to have a little sideless income.
00:08:26 --> 00:08:31 So I kept talking to the camera and lo and behold, the channel grew and grew
00:08:31 --> 00:08:33 and grew. And then people started reaching out to me.
00:08:34 --> 00:08:38 Asking for help. So I launched consultation calls as a way for them to be able
00:08:38 --> 00:08:40 to download information quickly.
00:08:40 --> 00:08:42 You know, everybody was like, Hey, McWill, can I meet you for coffee?
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 I did that like four or five times and quickly realized, wait a minute,
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 I can't be meeting everybody for coffee and talk for three or four hours and
00:08:50 --> 00:08:55 just, you know, and live my life and work because I was still working as a consultant
00:08:55 --> 00:08:57 doing federal business development at that point.
00:08:58 --> 00:09:01 So, you know, we had to codify things and just like, all right,
00:09:02 --> 00:09:03 just let's do video chats.
00:09:03 --> 00:09:08 You can be anywhere, I can be anywhere, and the information can still be downloaded.
00:09:08 --> 00:09:13 So consultation calls turn into, hey, I'm coming to Panama, can you help me
00:09:13 --> 00:09:16 schedule or put together an itinerary?
00:09:16 --> 00:09:21 So I started doing that and then morphed into a whole business.
00:09:22 --> 00:09:26 So I've had to go through name changes for one reason or another.
00:09:26 --> 00:09:29 When I started out, it was Blacks to Panama on the YouTube channel,
00:09:30 --> 00:09:34 and then they go with the expat life and me, and then settled on Panamazing.
00:09:34 --> 00:09:40 And, you know, that was a good run until I got hit with some of the company
00:09:40 --> 00:09:41 here in Panama called Panamazing.
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 I did a trademark search, y'all. I paid for the trademark search in advance.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:49 I did it. I did everything I was supposed to do, but rules here are a little bit different.
00:09:49 --> 00:09:55 So, yeah, let's coexist as Panamazing, but both of us can't be registered in
00:09:55 --> 00:09:57 the Panama Tourism Authority.
00:09:58 --> 00:10:02 With the same name. So since they were already registered, I had to become Go
00:10:02 --> 00:10:05 Explore Pentagon. Here we are. Okay.
00:10:06 --> 00:10:09 Fully licensed, fully insured, and in rented role.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:14 Yeah. I mean, I was, before we actually became, you know, in touch with each
00:10:14 --> 00:10:18 other, I was already subscribed to the channel. I was already watching the videos.
00:10:18 --> 00:10:22 And I was just like, man, it's got some good resourceful information.
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 And the one thing I like about your channel, as well as your tours,
00:10:25 --> 00:10:30 is that, you know, people are thinking about moving abroad and you pretty much
00:10:30 --> 00:10:32 put them on the right track. But if you were to tell them right now,
00:10:33 --> 00:10:37 What's step number one? Where do you even start if you're trying to relocate or live abroad?
00:10:38 --> 00:10:42 You know, I think the first step is getting a good understanding of where you're
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 going and what the process is going to be.
00:10:45 --> 00:10:49 So, like, one of the common questions I always give for people at the very beginning,
00:10:49 --> 00:10:51 they ask about citizenship.
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54 They're worried about, can they be a citizen here? And I'm like,
00:10:54 --> 00:10:55 that's so far down the road.
00:10:55 --> 00:10:59 That's a decision you can make five to seven years until you're joining.
00:10:59 --> 00:11:05 You need to get here first and be able to legally remain here longer than your
00:11:05 --> 00:11:08 passport allows, unless you're just like flying back and forth.
00:11:08 --> 00:11:10 And that's going to get real explicit real fast.
00:11:11 --> 00:11:15 So visa process is going to be one of the most important steps for people.
00:11:15 --> 00:11:19 Now, anybody watching this for me, I got a whole roadmap laid out for you.
00:11:19 --> 00:11:24 All you got to do is download our First Steps, the Panama e-book,
00:11:24 --> 00:11:29 and it has a whole little roadmap that you can follow to help guide you in this
00:11:29 --> 00:11:32 journey and not, you know, not miss anything.
00:11:33 --> 00:11:38 And part of what we are trying to do with Go Explore Panama is get people access
00:11:38 --> 00:11:43 to good actionable information that they can use and help them avoid the pitfalls
00:11:43 --> 00:11:45 and low-hanging branches that we hit.
00:11:45 --> 00:11:48 Because Lord knows we made some mistakes. Yeah.
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 You know, our friends around us made some mistakes. So we learned,
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 we incorporated some of that into the guides and everything else.
00:11:55 --> 00:11:57 And, you know, we're really good at what we do at this point.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:01 It's running like clockwork. And I'm very happy because it's a ministry.
00:12:01 --> 00:12:06 It's a mission. I'm trying to save some folks because you see what's happening.
00:12:09 --> 00:12:11 Exactly because as a matter of fact I just had a conversation with
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 my dad who's you know we're all coming down there soon and he
00:12:14 --> 00:12:18 was like you got to do a checklist because you know with me reminding him of
00:12:18 --> 00:12:21 certain things that has to be done before we leave a checklist is going to be
00:12:21 --> 00:12:26 essential and I know you have a free ebook which I know it has all those bases
00:12:26 --> 00:12:30 covered but I want to ask what's the one thing people don't think about until
00:12:30 --> 00:12:32 it's too late like you know they have an oh shoot moment.
00:12:33 --> 00:12:40 Um, for my clients, I think the people I've talked to have the biggest issue
00:12:40 --> 00:12:45 with the documents that you need in order to apply for residency here.
00:12:46 --> 00:12:50 So the first thing is you have to be here to start the visa process.
00:12:51 --> 00:12:56 That's point number one. So you have to make a flight and then you have to be
00:12:56 --> 00:13:02 here long enough to go through some of the errands that are necessary throughout the visa process.
00:13:02 --> 00:13:08 So on that first trip, you need to be here for like 10 days at least, maybe two weeks.
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 Then you can go back and things can happen in the dark.
00:13:12 --> 00:13:16 But the documents themselves, you have to collect all the documents in the U.S.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:20 And then they have to be certified or apostilled.
00:13:20 --> 00:13:24 And that's just a fancy word for certification, but you don't hear it a lot.
00:13:24 --> 00:13:27 Everything has to be certified in the U.S.
00:13:27 --> 00:13:32 You cannot do it here at Panama. If you get on that plane before you get it
00:13:32 --> 00:13:36 done, you're just going to have to get on a plane to go back to get the same
00:13:36 --> 00:13:38 thing done that you should have done before you got on the plane.
00:13:38 --> 00:13:44 So that is the number one aha, oh, my God, I messed up. And even we get caught.
00:13:45 --> 00:13:49 So when I say you start to go to Fort Panama to help you not make the mistakes
00:13:49 --> 00:13:51 you made, one of the mistakes I made was getting...
00:13:52 --> 00:13:55 On the plane without our marriage certificate being a positive.
00:13:56 --> 00:14:01 And I had the original marriage certificate from, you know, the wedding that
00:14:01 --> 00:14:03 had been at that point, I think it was like 18 years prior.
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 Everything has to be within six months. So you just simply need to go to the
00:14:08 --> 00:14:14 county that the wedding was performed in and ask that county clerk for an updated
00:14:14 --> 00:14:18 copy of your marriage certificate and pay $5 or whatever, and they give it to you.
00:14:19 --> 00:14:23 So I got on a plane without that. And that created a situation where basically
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 I wasn't legally married here in Panama for the first three years because I
00:14:26 --> 00:14:28 had to wait that long to go back.
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 I'm joking. I'm joking. I just didn't start my residency. I still had to wait
00:14:32 --> 00:14:33 and ring. I had to wait and ring.
00:14:33 --> 00:14:36 I know your wife wasn't going to play that. Like, you're okay.
00:14:36 --> 00:14:40 On paper, they don't think it's possible. But you know what's going on?
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 That's my joke. I used to run a comedy club. I'm not going to say I used to
00:14:44 --> 00:14:46 be a comedian. I used to run a comedy club.
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 Look, I got on stage and told some jokes. that completely bombed.
00:14:49 --> 00:14:52 Can you imagine bombing in front of 200 Black people? Oh, my God.
00:14:52 --> 00:14:56 Oh, you're right. I know how we are about our jokes. Right.
00:14:57 --> 00:15:01 You take that very, very seriously. And, like, if anybody get up there and,
00:15:01 --> 00:15:05 like, okay, who else is coming up here? Because you ain't it.
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 I'm like, I'm going to say it, man. I'll show myself out.
00:15:10 --> 00:15:14 There you go. But that's not an easy road. But I'm glad that you have...
00:15:15 --> 00:15:19 I mean, it's a hard lesson you learn bumping your own head up against the wall,
00:15:19 --> 00:15:24 but you have such, you know, these valuable experiences that I know you help
00:15:24 --> 00:15:26 your clientele avoid altogether.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:31 And with your clientele, it ranges. So how do you help families,
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 singles, or retirees find their footing in Panama?
00:15:35 --> 00:15:39 So I work with a group of experts who are really, really, really good at what
00:15:39 --> 00:15:44 they do. I'm basically a connecting piece and putting all of these services
00:15:44 --> 00:15:46 together and making sure people
00:15:46 --> 00:15:49 have access to the people who are professionals and know how to help.
00:15:49 --> 00:15:54 So the immigration attorney is going to work with family, singles,
00:15:54 --> 00:15:58 or retirees to identify which of the 26 visas is the best fit for you.
00:15:59 --> 00:16:03 For retirees who are drawing pensions, there's always going to be the pension
00:16:03 --> 00:16:06 out of visa because it's the fastest and cheapest visa to get,
00:16:06 --> 00:16:13 like 10 days. your lawyer's fee should be somewhere around $1 to like $1 altogether.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:17 Some lawyers are going to be a little bit more expensive, but maybe they will
00:16:17 --> 00:16:19 give you perine water while you're in the office. I don't know.
00:16:21 --> 00:16:25 I'm just saying, look for stuff in that range. If it's going above $1 to
00:16:25 --> 00:16:31 $2, you need to keep moving because now the phrase, now you're being green-goated.
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 Yes, I've heard the phrase. You've heard the phrase. That's,
00:16:36 --> 00:16:38 you know, they do think we all have a lot of money.
00:16:39 --> 00:16:42 And, you know, I mean, we have the typical Panamanian salary is $28.
00:16:43 --> 00:16:47 So, yeah, most of us are coming here with more money than Panamanian.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:51 That doesn't mean we're rich because, look, there's some real wealth here.
00:16:51 --> 00:16:55 I thought I saw wealth in Potomac, Maryland. That could now, but.
00:16:56 --> 00:17:01 I've seen some footage of various nice upscale neighborhoods.
00:17:01 --> 00:17:06 And I'm like, I don't even see that here. But it's very very rich I'll tell
00:17:06 --> 00:17:10 you that much Wherever area those are located in But,
00:17:11 --> 00:17:16 The realistic question is, how do you realistically live comfortably in Panama?
00:17:17 --> 00:17:23 Oh, look, the cost of living is such that it's easy. So we moved from Washington, D.C.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:27 We had two mid-six-finger incomes and, you know.
00:17:28 --> 00:17:33 It looked like we were doing okay, but we were struggling. It was rough.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:38 There was a lot of sleepless nights. Are we going to keep this house?
00:17:38 --> 00:17:40 Oh, my God. Let me go get a side hustle.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 Make ends meet. The 401k ain't doing what it's supposed to be doing.
00:17:45 --> 00:17:49 I did a retirement calculator one time at the beginning of COVID.
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 The Social Security Minister told me I was going to have to work until I was 79 years old.
00:17:53 --> 00:17:58 At the time, my dad was only 74. So I'm like, wait a minute, he ain't even there yet.
00:17:59 --> 00:18:04 So, the cost of living here is so completely different.
00:18:04 --> 00:18:09 So, like, we have a two-bedroom apartment in downtown San Francisco.
00:18:09 --> 00:18:11 It's a wonderful neighborhood.
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 It's one of the largest neighborhoods in downtown Panama.
00:18:15 --> 00:18:21 And our rent's only $1 a month. The linter bill is about $100 a month, $150 a month.
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 And we run there, you see, look, I'm going to be comfortable.
00:18:23 --> 00:18:28 It is high humid down in my city, but it's not as bad as D.C.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 In August. That sucks.
00:18:31 --> 00:18:36 This is more like D.C. in May. You know, spring light. Right.
00:18:37 --> 00:18:41 And then that rainy season is the most humid time. Dry season,
00:18:41 --> 00:18:43 the humidity lifts, and it just becomes perfect.
00:18:44 --> 00:18:48 88 degree highs. It never gets to the 90s.
00:18:48 --> 00:18:52 You never have those heat waves that you experience in the U.S.
00:18:52 --> 00:18:53 It's sort of 110 degrees.
00:18:54 --> 00:18:58 It has never been past 92 since in the four and a half years I've been here.
00:18:58 --> 00:19:00 So it's a pretty steady climate.
00:19:00 --> 00:19:05 But going back to your question, the food here, you can find deals.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 You can eat at restaurants, pay a lot of money if you want to,
00:19:08 --> 00:19:11 or you can go to the mom and pop restaurants and get, you know,
00:19:11 --> 00:19:13 country fed for $5 a plate.
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 Stuff costs what stuff costs, but labor is cheap.
00:19:17 --> 00:19:23 So, you know, getting your car repaired is a lot cheaper. Health services are a lot cheaper.
00:19:24 --> 00:19:29 You know, we have a cleaning woman that comes. She charges $45 for the entire
00:19:29 --> 00:19:31 apartment. And when I said we have a two-bedroom, let me.
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 A lot of apartments here come with mage quarters.
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 They're usually living mage, and they don't count that towards your room count.
00:19:41 --> 00:19:44 So we really have a three-bedroom. It would be a tight bedroom,
00:19:44 --> 00:19:47 but you could put a bed in there, and it's another full bath.
00:19:47 --> 00:19:50 So they just include that.
00:19:51 --> 00:19:56 They throw that in, and you always pay extra for it. So our monthly budget for
00:19:56 --> 00:19:59 two people is hopefully around $3.
00:20:00 --> 00:20:05 And well look as soon as I get off this podcast we're going to order something
00:20:05 --> 00:20:09 for dinner and have it delivered whatever feels like cooking I've been talking
00:20:09 --> 00:20:11 all day she's been working all day,
00:20:11 --> 00:20:17 and why cook well you don't have to we just go you know she was from 50 restaurants around us and,
00:20:18 --> 00:20:22 having a little something delivered and you know our lifestyle was completely
00:20:22 --> 00:20:27 changed you know we just my birthday was this past weekend you know we was we
00:20:27 --> 00:20:28 spent it up in the Cologne district,
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 you know surveying a little resort and it
00:20:32 --> 00:20:35 was just amazing it's surreal to us that even after
00:20:35 --> 00:20:40 all this time we're still like wow we really did this so it still comes in shock
00:20:40 --> 00:20:45 some ways and you know one thing sad about that i could say is that we don't
00:20:45 --> 00:20:50 we no longer experience that vacation dread that you used to get when you went
00:20:50 --> 00:20:54 to the dr aruba and it was time to go back. Oh, I want to go back.
00:20:55 --> 00:20:59 I got to get back to work. We don't feel that anymore because when we leave
00:20:59 --> 00:21:06 Aruba, we're coming to another tropical location with great views of palm trees and the whole lot.
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 So, you know, it's like, why be sad? We're not going to go to Aruba.
00:21:13 --> 00:21:18 That part is true. You can really live well here. You can do things and jazz
00:21:18 --> 00:21:22 clubs and all kinds of stuff to do. Salsa Dancing and,
00:21:23 --> 00:21:28 You're not going to spend as much money here just living day-to-day as you do
00:21:28 --> 00:21:30 in the United States. Our eggs are only $2.
00:21:30 --> 00:21:35 So, you know, they never went up. The price of beef hasn't gone up.
00:21:36 --> 00:21:40 Everything that we have heard Americans complain about the last four and a half
00:21:40 --> 00:21:43 years about inflation, none of it hit here.
00:21:43 --> 00:21:48 None of it. I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Because, I mean, just the $2 eggs
00:21:48 --> 00:21:49 have got my toes curling, okay?
00:21:49 --> 00:21:52 I'm waiting on that, for real. Getting your hair done.
00:21:53 --> 00:21:56 Way too pure way too yeah well
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 you know look my scalp started tingling hold on let me get to the
00:21:59 --> 00:22:04 next question before we talk about all this good you know less expensive lifestyle
00:22:04 --> 00:22:09 you're this close you're this close i'm not watching i cannot wait okay i can't
00:22:09 --> 00:22:13 get that quick enough but you know since you've been there for a minute what
00:22:13 --> 00:22:16 was the biggest cultural adjustment you had to make You know,
00:22:17 --> 00:22:19 I ask people the same question, but now I'm stuck.
00:22:21 --> 00:22:26 Okay, between how Panamanians drive, because they drive crazy.
00:22:26 --> 00:22:33 So it's a mix of, for old school, showing my head, my age, it's a mix of Fricknick.
00:22:34 --> 00:22:40 D.C. Beltway, Rush Hour, a little bit of New York thrown in. And the thing about D.C.
00:22:40 --> 00:22:46 Got a ripper is there's a lot of diplomats that don't have to take driving lessons to drive in D.C.
00:22:46 --> 00:22:52 So you have like 100 diplomatic tags and they can run over you and not be charged or anything.
00:22:53 --> 00:22:57 They have diplomatic immunity, so they drive like crazy. So it's a mix of that
00:22:57 --> 00:23:00 in New York all put together.
00:23:00 --> 00:23:05 But I do drive here. The other cultural thing that was a shocker to me.
00:23:06 --> 00:23:10 Panamanians have a completely different sense of, uh, personal space.
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 You know, that, that little bubble that you had, a three foot bubble that we
00:23:14 --> 00:23:15 like, that's not going to exist here.
00:23:15 --> 00:23:19 Don't even, you know, don't even think it. They will, they will stand right
00:23:19 --> 00:23:22 up on you, you know, over your shoulder. You know, like, what are you doing?
00:23:23 --> 00:23:26 So it took a little bit of adjustment to that. And then, you know,
00:23:26 --> 00:23:33 being from DC, I, you know, I was just keeping it real. You know,
00:23:33 --> 00:23:37 we have those demeanors, you know, I'm from North Carolina.
00:23:37 --> 00:23:41 When I got to D.C., I spoke to a woman on the subway train and she hooked me
00:23:41 --> 00:23:42 up and down like, I don't know.
00:23:43 --> 00:23:44 I'm just like, I just said, good morning.
00:23:46 --> 00:23:50 Exactly. I think America is a program to be antisocial. Exactly.
00:23:50 --> 00:23:53 I learned. I was there for almost 30 years. I learned how to be like that.
00:23:53 --> 00:23:55 And I came here being that way.
00:23:55 --> 00:24:00 So, you know, Sonya had to calm me down. the YouTube channel is growing and
00:24:00 --> 00:24:05 I'm going places and people are recognizing me and calling my name out loud
00:24:05 --> 00:24:08 and I'm like, I'm in the foreign country, nobody knows me, who are you?
00:24:10 --> 00:24:16 And she had to remind me, like, you put your face on YouTube. Yeah, exactly.
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 I can imagine that because, you know, I've been studying up on stuff and like
00:24:21 --> 00:24:26 I said, your channel is definitely a big help in getting me more knowledge before I actually land there.
00:24:26 --> 00:24:33 But the real question I got for you is How do locals treat black expats and entrepreneurs there?
00:24:33 --> 00:24:37 Look, it's all love. Panama's 96% black and brown.
00:24:38 --> 00:24:47 96%. That's 4% other. So it's a lot of brown and it's about 46% black because,
00:24:47 --> 00:24:51 you know, even though black's an artificial construct, let's talk about African descendants.
00:24:52 --> 00:24:58 46% of the people here in the last sentence classify themselves as Afro-Panamanian.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:04 So they don't know that you're not Panamanian until you speak.
00:25:04 --> 00:25:09 You know, they might have a clue because of how you dress, especially for men in the city.
00:25:09 --> 00:25:15 So when we first get here, we love T-shirts and shorts and flip-flops because it's hot.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:20 Men in the city typically wear pants during their work days.
00:25:20 --> 00:25:24 And I had to learn that. It was a really easy way for them to identify you.
00:25:26 --> 00:25:31 Shorts on a wednesday afternoon and everybody
00:25:31 --> 00:25:33 else is in jeans because so for first year i'm like how
00:25:33 --> 00:25:36 are they doing it oh it's their jeans are so hot now i
00:25:36 --> 00:25:40 wear jeans because i'm used to it uh when i want to fit in sometimes i'm just
00:25:40 --> 00:25:45 gonna give you green gold whatever y'all just can y'all can deal with this right
00:25:45 --> 00:25:49 this deal i can't do with the pants today i can't do it today but every time
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 you know sometimes i'm incognito i wear my panel on football shirt and you know
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 And invariably, somebody comes up and starts asking me for directions.
00:25:55 --> 00:26:00 But now I have the ability to be like, OK, go down the street, turn left. OK.
00:26:02 --> 00:26:06 That's another thing, because if you did a comparison rate, what does Panama
00:26:06 --> 00:26:08 do better than the states?
00:26:09 --> 00:26:16 Elections, helping people, health care, policing. Oh, God. What else?
00:26:20 --> 00:26:24 They do a lot of stuff better. Look, it's different.
00:26:25 --> 00:26:29 There's a thousand and one ways to skin a cat. And, you know,
00:26:30 --> 00:26:33 y'all came here or are coming here because the U.S.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 Way of skinning cats really didn't sit with us too well.
00:26:37 --> 00:26:42 So be open to changes. Be open to a different way of doing things.
00:26:42 --> 00:26:46 Panama is very process-oriented, and sometimes that slows things down when you're
00:26:46 --> 00:26:51 dealing with the government, like immigration or getting licensed or getting
00:26:51 --> 00:26:56 your kids set up to go to school here. Just be patient. You'll get through it.
00:26:56 --> 00:27:00 The things they do very well, like health care.
00:27:01 --> 00:27:04 Just the fact that there's a public health care system here means that the government
00:27:04 --> 00:27:11 has a vested interest in the citizens not getting diabetes and having kidney
00:27:11 --> 00:27:14 transplants and heart failure and all that, because the government's got to pay for that.
00:27:16 --> 00:27:18 So they really work extra hard
00:27:18 --> 00:27:22 to make sure Panamians are not consuming things that are bad for them.
00:27:22 --> 00:27:27 There's like a whole list of 26 foods that you can't get, that you can get easily
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 in the United States. You're not going to get it here. They're like,
00:27:29 --> 00:27:31 let me just go ahead and break some parts.
00:27:31 --> 00:27:35 If you like Mountain Dew and yellow, this ain't the place. You got to bring it with you.
00:27:38 --> 00:27:42 They have their own versions of lemon-lime sodas, but, you know,
00:27:43 --> 00:27:44 everything is smaller portions.
00:27:44 --> 00:27:46 It has less sugar in it.
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51 So, you know, when you open up a can of Coke here, if you do that,
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 it's going to taste a little bit like Diet Coke to you. But you'll get used
00:27:54 --> 00:27:55 to it because it's good for you.
00:27:56 --> 00:27:58 It's not as much harmful crap in it as you do.
00:27:58 --> 00:28:03 Eaten the whole life. So they make fitness accessible to everyone.
00:28:03 --> 00:28:07 They really encourage fitness and preventive medicine.
00:28:08 --> 00:28:13 Doctors here on the private side spend an hour or two hours with you during
00:28:13 --> 00:28:16 your intakes and your doctor's visits.
00:28:17 --> 00:28:21 So you get a thorough background. The doctor knows, you know,
00:28:21 --> 00:28:22 he's asking about your life.
00:28:23 --> 00:28:27 So he understands your stress levels and how that's complicating whatever it
00:28:27 --> 00:28:31 is you're there complaining about or there to get seen so,
00:28:31 --> 00:28:35 health care delivery is one thing that they do a lot better and then you know
00:28:35 --> 00:28:39 i'm going to throw in the policing because i'm a 56 year old black man who is
00:28:39 --> 00:28:43 still suffering from some of the things that i experienced the first time i
00:28:43 --> 00:28:47 got held by gunpoint by a law enforcement officer that was meant to protect
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 the certainly i was 11 years old on my own street,
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 And he wanted to know what I was doing there. And I lived in my old black neighborhood,
00:28:53 --> 00:28:57 Durham. So I'm like, what are you doing here? Everybody here knows me. That part. Okay.
00:28:58 --> 00:29:00 You know, I'm Reverend Easley's son. Who are you?
00:29:02 --> 00:29:05 That was the first time, you know, gunpoint just for walking down the street.
00:29:05 --> 00:29:10 So here, the police, the citizens aren't afraid of police. They don't,
00:29:10 --> 00:29:12 they don't kill citizens.
00:29:12 --> 00:29:16 I don't know if people know this about the United States, but there is not a
00:29:16 --> 00:29:23 single federal agency that keeps track of Citizen's Death by Cop.
00:29:23 --> 00:29:28 Newspapers track it and then cdc came
00:29:28 --> 00:29:31 close to tracking it because you know they're they're
00:29:31 --> 00:29:37 recording how people die but that police custody thing is hard to track because
00:29:37 --> 00:29:45 basically they fudge with the numbers and that doesn't happen here uh so that's
00:29:45 --> 00:29:48 a huge difference that's that's and you see what's happening right now with
00:29:48 --> 00:29:50 law enforcement in the united states students have been unleashed.
00:29:51 --> 00:29:56 And there's not going to be any culpability for or responsibility for them,
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 and they know it. But here, they don't even give Panamanians tickets.
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 They give them lectures when they pull them over for speeding or doing something.
00:30:03 --> 00:30:08 And I've gotten a lecture for making a long turn at Costco Viejo to presidential palace.
00:30:08 --> 00:30:11 It's over there. People be on your P's and Q's. Watch those turns.
00:30:12 --> 00:30:15 Because I went down the street going towards the presidential palace,
00:30:15 --> 00:30:18 and the dude helped me out for about 30 minutes lecturing me.
00:30:18 --> 00:30:21 He knew I didn't understand what he was saying, but he didn't care.
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25 You can either get a ticket or you can listen to me talk. So that's what I did.
00:30:28 --> 00:30:31 Okay. And, you know, speaking of which, because I know there's things you're
00:30:31 --> 00:30:33 not going to be crazy about when you live abroad.
00:30:33 --> 00:30:38 Yes. What is one of the one things that still drives you crazy to this day,
00:30:38 --> 00:30:39 even though you've been in Panama for a minute?
00:30:40 --> 00:30:43 I don't go back to the drive again. I was about to say.
00:30:44 --> 00:30:48 And the way you describe the drive, it almost sounds like Houston down here.
00:30:48 --> 00:30:56 Yeah, look So either They're driving extremely slow And you're getting frustrated
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 You know, like, why aren't you making.
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 Turn, or they're crossing four lanes of traffic.
00:31:02 --> 00:31:04 If they're last, they didn't turn in front of you. You know,
00:31:05 --> 00:31:09 that is really the most frustrating thing. Let me see if there's something else. A mail.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:17 Okay, so we had to stop all of our paper mail from the U.S. They have mail forwarding services here.
00:31:17 --> 00:31:21 And since we've been here, a lot of them have dated their services.
00:31:21 --> 00:31:24 But like mailboxes, et cetera, is one that we've used.
00:31:24 --> 00:31:28 And you sign up for an account here. They give you a free P.O. box.
00:31:28 --> 00:31:33 In Miami, then you'd use that address for all of your packages or whatever hits
00:31:33 --> 00:31:37 that PO box in Miami shows up here two days later.
00:31:38 --> 00:31:45 And it took a minute for me to realize that, you know, we have forwarded mail before we left.
00:31:45 --> 00:31:51 And then we started getting junk mail, you know, credit card statements, just everything.
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 I didn't say even a family watching. I love y'all, but you know,
00:31:55 --> 00:31:59 I had to email, email me graduation announcements,
00:31:59 --> 00:32:04 email me birthday announcements, email me Christmas cards, because we're paying
00:32:04 --> 00:32:08 $2 to $3 for every single album that gets delivered.
00:32:08 --> 00:32:10 And I got old real quick, especially the junk mail.
00:32:11 --> 00:32:17 So the people I got most frustrated with was my bank, because they kept forwarding
00:32:17 --> 00:32:19 those life insurance offers.
00:32:19 --> 00:32:21 And I'm like, what does paperless mean to you people? I don't understand.
00:32:23 --> 00:32:27 Exactly. It's all English. It's your first language, right?
00:32:27 --> 00:32:32 Okay, great. So that was really, really frustrating.
00:32:32 --> 00:32:37 You know, that cost some money. I know for Sonia, I can say this.
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 She had a hard time with her hair.
00:32:39 --> 00:32:43 So she, you know, she brought products from back home.
00:32:43 --> 00:32:48 And look, nothing is going to work like it does back home. When you hit this
00:32:48 --> 00:32:50 humidity, it's just a different monster.
00:32:51 --> 00:32:56 So be ready for that. Be flexible for it. I will say the Panamanians know how to do our hair.
00:32:56 --> 00:32:59 That's another kind of question. Where can I get my hair done?
00:32:59 --> 00:33:01 I don't like anywhere Panamanians go because...
00:33:02 --> 00:33:08 Look, for fellas, they know how to fade to death. They could cut the designs, pictures in your head.
00:33:08 --> 00:33:13 Women, they could do perms. And then on top of that, there's expats that run
00:33:13 --> 00:33:19 shops that you can go to and really get someone knowledgeable on your hair.
00:33:19 --> 00:33:23 So that kind of stuff you'll learn to deal with.
00:33:23 --> 00:33:27 Halloween, pet peeve. They don't have Reese's Peanut Butter Cups here.
00:33:27 --> 00:33:28 I'm fat boy, Mrs. Reese's Peanut Butter.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:33 Oh, man. That's okay. I'm going to get my recipe, and then we're going to make
00:33:33 --> 00:33:36 some homemade Reese's Cups. There it is.
00:33:36 --> 00:33:39 I just saw one, but let me refine that.
00:33:39 --> 00:33:44 You can get the special kind of Reese's Cups, like the Big Cup or the white
00:33:44 --> 00:33:51 chocolate joints, but the plain chocolate, two in a pack, you got to get the minis.
00:33:52 --> 00:33:58 Hey, look, where there's a will, there's a way. I mean, I had a grit smuggler.
00:33:59 --> 00:34:06 I had a grit smuggler. I had family yes they would go home every six months
00:34:06 --> 00:34:11 and when they came back they would bring me two or three boxes of grits and
00:34:11 --> 00:34:13 I talked about this in my YouTube show so that for like,
00:34:14 --> 00:34:17 Maybe six months when I first started talking to a location to us.
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20 Clients were just, hey, we brought a box of grits for you, T.
00:34:23 --> 00:34:28 So I still got like three or four packages of grits in the kitchen that I haven't
00:34:28 --> 00:34:31 gone through yet. And I'm thankful. I'm so thankful.
00:34:31 --> 00:34:34 And now they do sell instant grits.
00:34:35 --> 00:34:39 I was about to say I'm about to go hit the store up and get a bulk size of grits
00:34:39 --> 00:34:40 before we come out there.
00:34:40 --> 00:34:44 Right, right, right, right. I'm good. I'm good, my friend. And look,
00:34:44 --> 00:34:47 here's someone else to check out, AbroadAbility on YouTube.
00:34:48 --> 00:34:52 She brought back some grits for Jamaica. I'm enjoying some low-end,
00:34:52 --> 00:34:54 like yellow color and everything. I love it.
00:34:55 --> 00:34:59 So, look, Fat Boy's got to get fit. But Fat Boy's not as fat as he was.
00:34:59 --> 00:35:05 I've lost maybe 40, 50 pounds just being here, exercising the same way that
00:35:05 --> 00:35:08 I exercise in D.C. It's just the food and water. That's it.
00:35:08 --> 00:35:12 I hear that a lot. A lot of people go there. The humidity does wonders for the
00:35:12 --> 00:35:14 skin. with the food that being is processed.
00:35:15 --> 00:35:18 You're naturally going to lose weight because of the smaller portions.
00:35:18 --> 00:35:20 And like I said, not over-processed.
00:35:20 --> 00:35:24 Not over-processed, yes. I mean, it's a beautiful thing. Natural ingredients.
00:35:25 --> 00:35:26 Look, I still drink.
00:35:27 --> 00:35:32 Look, maracuyas spatters for passion fruit. And it grows on trees here,
00:35:32 --> 00:35:34 literally. They put it in everything. And I love it.
00:35:36 --> 00:35:39 Margaritas, maracuyas, mojitos. Maracuyas, sangria.
00:35:41 --> 00:35:46 You're speaking my language now yes look they can make some good cocktails here
00:35:46 --> 00:35:51 so that's something I'm probably going to have to you know slow down at some
00:35:51 --> 00:35:55 point I don't know where but at some point at some point in time I mean but
00:35:55 --> 00:35:59 a typical day with you and your wife what does that look like,
00:36:00 --> 00:36:04 So there's pre-Go Explore Panama and there's post-Go Explore Panama.
00:36:05 --> 00:36:07 So right now, our day is a little bit different.
00:36:08 --> 00:36:12 She's still remote working, so she has a regular work day.
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 She gets up, she logs into the computer, you know, she's on Teams meetings,
00:36:16 --> 00:36:21 talking to people and helping folks and, you know, yelling at her computer when
00:36:21 --> 00:36:23 it's on mute and all that good stuff.
00:36:23 --> 00:36:25 My days are helping people.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:31 Like today is a pretty good example. I have five consultation calls about relocations,
00:36:31 --> 00:36:38 and then I had another call with an expat that lives here who's looking to learn
00:36:38 --> 00:36:39 about doing some things with AI,
00:36:40 --> 00:36:43 and I'm very excited about that because she's going to be helping me out with some things.
00:36:43 --> 00:36:48 And now we're talking, so that's a typical day for me.
00:36:48 --> 00:36:51 Tomorrow, I have three calls, and then I have to go out with somebody,
00:36:51 --> 00:36:55 or maybe there's a Thursday, I'm doing a neighborhood tour with a client.
00:36:55 --> 00:37:00 So I'll be out from 8.30 in the morning until about 5.30, depending on traffic.
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 Taking him around the city, showing him all the neighborhoods,
00:37:05 --> 00:37:10 making sure he knows how to ride the subway, see a farmer's market and some
00:37:10 --> 00:37:14 grocery stores and tell him what not to buy. You know, like, hey, leave that alone.
00:37:14 --> 00:37:19 Yeah, don't let that. Go to the South American and the Central American brands
00:37:19 --> 00:37:21 because those American imports will buy.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:27 Will hit your pockets real, real fast. So that, you know, typical day can change,
00:37:27 --> 00:37:33 but I'm looking forward to, she's about to stop doing what she's doing and come
00:37:33 --> 00:37:34 full time and go explore Panama,
00:37:35 --> 00:37:39 which means, you know, we get to rob boats together, we go on the tours together
00:37:39 --> 00:37:45 and just be able to get away anytime we want to, anytime there's a doubt period.
00:37:45 --> 00:37:49 And that's something that clients, let me tell you, I'm about to build it into my life.
00:37:49 --> 00:37:55 Part of the beauty of being here and being able to run a business is being able
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 to run it the way you want to. Oh, yes. Amen.
00:37:59 --> 00:38:03 And, you know, I'm learning how important that work-life balance is,
00:38:03 --> 00:38:07 so, you know, I will continue to help people as much, but I'm going to carve
00:38:07 --> 00:38:10 out a week each month for just us to,
00:38:11 --> 00:38:17 to be able to go to Cologne and be at that Hotel Candy Rose or take a trip to
00:38:17 --> 00:38:20 Bocas or, you know, there's still parts of Panama.
00:38:20 --> 00:38:23 We've been here four and a half years and we haven't been to Bocas yet.
00:38:23 --> 00:38:25 We haven't been at the V, but Kete.
00:38:25 --> 00:38:29 So there's a lot of stuff that we still have to do here. And then,
00:38:29 --> 00:38:30 you know, I want to get to Peru.
00:38:31 --> 00:38:34 The food is really, really, I didn't know that Peru was like one of the top
00:38:34 --> 00:38:37 food destinations on the planet. I'm a fat boy.
00:38:37 --> 00:38:40 So put that together.
00:38:41 --> 00:38:47 Oh, got to go. I'm going to eat while I climb up to Matry Coochie. We'll see what happens.
00:38:47 --> 00:38:51 There we go. There we go. And Matt, I saw your latest interview you did with
00:38:51 --> 00:38:54 the Richardsons. And I love, I mean, their content on TikTok.
00:38:55 --> 00:38:59 They're good people. I love them. They're good neighbors. That's the funny thing.
00:38:59 --> 00:39:03 We were in the same neighborhood in Prince George's County and didn't know each other there.
00:39:04 --> 00:39:07 Where did you meet each other in Panama? I met them in Panama.
00:39:07 --> 00:39:11 They contacted me for a consultation. And I talked to her for about an hour
00:39:11 --> 00:39:14 and a half, you know, gave him the bobo.
00:39:14 --> 00:39:19 And next thing I know, I was with another client, taking her to meet Dr.
00:39:19 --> 00:39:22 Duncan and ran right into Mrs. Richardson.
00:39:22 --> 00:39:25 And she was coming from her doctor's apartment with the same doctor.
00:39:25 --> 00:39:27 So, and I'm like, oh my God, you're here.
00:39:29 --> 00:39:33 It was meant to happen. But I watched the full interview this morning.
00:39:34 --> 00:39:38 And I mean, just the scenery on the boat. I mean, even though y'all were just
00:39:38 --> 00:39:43 bobbing and talking, but you got all this tropical vibes in the background. It's peaceful.
00:39:44 --> 00:39:48 And the experience that they're sharing with you and your guide and touring
00:39:48 --> 00:39:50 them, I was just like, dude, I cannot wait.
00:39:50 --> 00:39:52 I appreciate it. Look, I hope you didn't get seasick watching.
00:39:52 --> 00:39:56 I was a little worried about that when I saw the bobbing and everything.
00:39:57 --> 00:39:59 Oh, I was good. It was motivational. It was motivational for me.
00:39:59 --> 00:40:00 I said, I can't wait to bob.
00:40:02 --> 00:40:06 So, look, that's going to be a thing for me. I really enjoyed that experience
00:40:06 --> 00:40:14 and I'm going to continue to do the Real Ex-Pets of Panama video series but instead of,
00:40:15 --> 00:40:18 going to people's homes. We're just going to go out on a boat and have a conversation
00:40:18 --> 00:40:21 because that was a really, really fun day.
00:40:22 --> 00:40:28 And, you know, I think it does a good job of highlighting how life can be lived here.
00:40:28 --> 00:40:33 You know, seeing the looks on their faces when they saw Taboga for the first
00:40:33 --> 00:40:36 time. And look, that wasn't even a picture perfect day. It rained.
00:40:36 --> 00:40:42 We had to sit in the rain when we first got to Taboga for about 20 minutes and 30 minutes.
00:40:42 --> 00:40:45 So, look, Big Will's prepared. He had ponchos for clients
00:40:45 --> 00:40:48 and everything they they didn't get wet you know we
00:40:48 --> 00:40:52 just sat and vibed because since they were from the dmv i
00:40:52 --> 00:40:55 felt comfortable playing the go-go i don't make no excuses but
00:40:55 --> 00:41:00 i peeped that okay look at them they really showing their roots up in this video
00:41:00 --> 00:41:04 yes yes you know most of the time i try to be cognizant of you know playing
00:41:04 --> 00:41:09 with people with what i hear you know if it's older retirees i tend to lean
00:41:09 --> 00:41:13 into motown and jazz brown and then if it's you know younger people Well,
00:41:13 --> 00:41:16 okay, I'll give you some Migos or whatever the taste may be. Right.
00:41:17 --> 00:41:25 But I love go-go, and I have a theory. So go-go is like drums and the congo is at the base of it.
00:41:26 --> 00:41:29 That's the same thing as salsa music. Look, salsa is African music.
00:41:30 --> 00:41:35 Yeah. I was in Cartagena and met a trio called the Couto Quinte Trio. It's called now.
00:41:36 --> 00:41:42 Right. Playing in this cigar and rum bar in Cartagena.
00:41:42 --> 00:41:44 So when they announced themselves at the Couto Quinte Trio, I'm like,
00:41:44 --> 00:41:47 I got to talk to you. So during a break, I ran up on him and,
00:41:47 --> 00:41:53 you know, translating because I couldn't say anything in Spanish with my phone.
00:41:53 --> 00:41:58 But he quickly explained to me that they came up with a name because they were
00:41:58 --> 00:42:01 aware of the African influence in salsa music.
00:42:01 --> 00:42:08 They knew that the Africans from the Congo came to Colombia and were enslaved
00:42:08 --> 00:42:13 and they brought the drums with them. And that became the basis of salsa music.
00:42:13 --> 00:42:17 And they wanted to name them themselves something that paid homage to that.
00:42:17 --> 00:42:19 So I was high-fiving to do like, keep doing what you're doing.
00:42:20 --> 00:42:23 And they still play in the same spot. I cannot believe it.
00:42:23 --> 00:42:26 That was like four and a half years ago when I first met them,
00:42:26 --> 00:42:28 but they are still in the same spot. I follow them on Instagram.
00:42:29 --> 00:42:31 Look, I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan boy.
00:42:32 --> 00:42:36 But I got to believe that Go-Go would get the same experience.
00:42:36 --> 00:42:40 So I'm about to get a really, really, really loud sound system put in my car
00:42:40 --> 00:42:42 so I can be Panamanian too.
00:42:43 --> 00:42:47 I like loud stuff too. Right. Exactly. Exactly.
00:42:48 --> 00:42:51 So, you know, look, when your dad gets here, I know it's going to be.
00:42:54 --> 00:42:58 That's a whole other conversation about my dad. Okay. You just do not know.
00:42:58 --> 00:43:03 But a lot of people are actually thinking about moving abroad,
00:43:03 --> 00:43:08 but they're a little hesitant on actually making the commitment to do it.
00:43:08 --> 00:43:13 What would your advice be to somebody who is just on the fence about moving or living abroad?
00:43:14 --> 00:43:21 Don't let fear stop you. Fear is really your imagination telling you what might happen.
00:43:21 --> 00:43:26 I need you to, instead of giving into the fear, start looking at the reality
00:43:26 --> 00:43:30 of what is actually happening around you.
00:43:30 --> 00:43:33 Be calm about it and, you know, realize like, okay.
00:43:34 --> 00:43:38 You know, rights are being rescinded. Troops are on the ground in different
00:43:38 --> 00:43:41 cities. People are being disappeared.
00:43:42 --> 00:43:49 Flashbangs are jumping out of Black Hawk helicopters. That is a military use only equipment.
00:43:49 --> 00:43:54 And they're using them against us. You know, I just saw a man today that got
00:43:54 --> 00:43:56 detained and he was telling people the whole time he was a U.S.
00:43:57 --> 00:43:57 Citizen and they didn't care.
00:43:58 --> 00:44:02 They kept telling him to shut up, just keep moving along. And it's got to be the 70s.
00:44:02 --> 00:44:05 He saw them zip tie the baby so look
00:44:05 --> 00:44:08 it's not going to go away it's not going to magically
00:44:08 --> 00:44:11 get better you know don't let
00:44:11 --> 00:44:14 fear stop you from doing what your
00:44:14 --> 00:44:17 brain is telling you the right thing to do you're not
00:44:17 --> 00:44:24 one of the things that kept us from doing this sooner was the fear that moving
00:44:24 --> 00:44:30 to central america was going to have us in a less than situation yeah you know
00:44:30 --> 00:44:37 we got this great brick house in Prince George's County and we live on a golf course, you know.
00:44:37 --> 00:44:43 Had a Mustang 5.0 GT in my Jeep Grand Cherokee. She had a nice Acura.
00:44:43 --> 00:44:46 You know, we were taking trips. Things look lovely.
00:44:48 --> 00:44:52 Things look lovely. You know, we were keeping up with the Charles's and everything
00:44:52 --> 00:44:57 and we thought that doing this was, you know, we were going to miss out on something
00:44:57 --> 00:44:59 but like I keep saying, they have stuff here.
00:45:00 --> 00:45:06 They have all the stuff, all the clothes, all the watches, all the bags, all the sneakers.
00:45:06 --> 00:45:10 Lord knows they got all the sneakers. When you get to Albrecht Mall,
00:45:10 --> 00:45:14 the one thing you're not going to see a shortage of are athletic shoe stores.
00:45:14 --> 00:45:18 There, you'll see what I'm talking about. It's amazing how many athletic shoe
00:45:18 --> 00:45:20 stores they have here, but they get stuff.
00:45:21 --> 00:45:26 Stop worrying about not having access to stuff. You can still watch television that you watch.
00:45:26 --> 00:45:30 Look, I was in a fantasy football league longer than was in my marriage.
00:45:30 --> 00:45:32 And I just celebrated my 23rd anniversary.
00:45:33 --> 00:45:37 I came here and won that fantasy football league twice in a row.
00:45:37 --> 00:45:40 I hope y'all are watching it. Twice in a row.
00:45:42 --> 00:45:47 They had to ship the trophy to me. They had to ship it. Oh, you're just going
00:45:47 --> 00:45:50 to rub it in their faces, okay? All the time.
00:45:52 --> 00:45:56 No, it's stuck. Twice in a row. Twice in a row.
00:45:58 --> 00:46:03 I did the draft from the rooftop pool at the Coronado Bay.
00:46:03 --> 00:46:06 And they were so mad at me because every time I would select,
00:46:06 --> 00:46:07 they would see me go jump in the pool.
00:46:10 --> 00:46:16 You was doing double work, okay? I'm winning and I'm rubbing it in your face at the same time.
00:46:18 --> 00:46:22 Exactly. The great smack talk must continue.
00:46:22 --> 00:46:26 Look and i was in a league with some of the best mech talkers on the planet
00:46:26 --> 00:46:31 so i'll give it to you before you give it to me but we didn't miss out on anything
00:46:31 --> 00:46:34 i was able to watch all the football games and then you know it got better because
00:46:34 --> 00:46:39 life in dc i had to i was forced to watch that team.
00:46:42 --> 00:46:45 Oh she don't hear that they don't get in trouble,
00:46:47 --> 00:46:50 they know they know my whole my whole wife's family
00:46:50 --> 00:46:53 were washington fans and they used to rib me for a long
00:46:53 --> 00:46:58 time i'm like i don't care what y'all say hey what what fun would it be if we
00:46:58 --> 00:47:02 you wouldn't talk a little smoke i mean just let it let it be that's it that's
00:47:02 --> 00:47:09 it that's it spades dominoes whatever whatever it is i'm gonna talk we need
00:47:09 --> 00:47:12 here we need a tuck tournament Somebody needs to come here and do a tournament.
00:47:13 --> 00:47:18 I haven't seen that yet. Look, shout out to the old heads that always want to play midwiz.
00:47:18 --> 00:47:21 My parents taught me how to play that, too, and I will beat you with it.
00:47:22 --> 00:47:25 Well, I know one thing in front. Whenever we meet in person,
00:47:25 --> 00:47:29 I'm not trying to do no competition with Will because I know you take that seriously.
00:47:30 --> 00:47:34 Very much so. Very much so. It's all my fun, but I am going to rub it in your face.
00:47:34 --> 00:47:38 I understand. And I hope you do it to me. I need that. I need that.
00:47:38 --> 00:47:45 Look, it's just going to make me get better. that's all we are both we love
00:47:45 --> 00:47:51 talking smack okay that's what it is and can back it up too at the same time
00:47:51 --> 00:47:53 but if anybody is thinking about,
00:47:53 --> 00:47:59 moving to Panama, relocating to Panama, how can they find and use your services?
00:48:00 --> 00:48:07 Oh, my God. Yes. So the website is Go Explore Panama's Go Dash Explore Panama all together.
00:48:07 --> 00:48:11 You can put that in Google and it'll take you to my website.
00:48:11 --> 00:48:16 Facebook is the same. Go Explore Panama without the dashes. There's a Facebook
00:48:16 --> 00:48:18 page for the group on YouTube.
00:48:18 --> 00:48:23 We are Go Explore Panama. No dashes. So you can find me that way.
00:48:24 --> 00:48:28 Instagram. Once again, go explore Panama. You see a thing.
00:48:29 --> 00:48:32 The only one that's different is TikTok. I couldn't do that with TikTok.
00:48:32 --> 00:48:34 So TikTok, I'm black, it's a tier one.
00:48:34 --> 00:48:40 But the easiest way to find me is to go to the website and then all of my contact
00:48:40 --> 00:48:42 information is there. You can even hit me on WhatsApp.
00:48:43 --> 00:48:48 So you can ask questions. I get, you know, I review all the social media.
00:48:48 --> 00:48:51 I get Facebook Messenger. I get IG Messenger.
00:48:51 --> 00:48:53 It may take me a little time to get back to it, but I do get it.
00:48:54 --> 00:48:59 Email address is definitely the best. Big will at go dash explore Panama.com.
00:49:00 --> 00:49:05 That is big will at go dash explore Panama.com.
00:49:05 --> 00:49:11 Hey people, I recommend highly that you have a consultation with him because
00:49:11 --> 00:49:12 like I said, I still got questions.
00:49:12 --> 00:49:16 I still got that little nerve edge. Like, Oh, I'm scared, but I'm excited at
00:49:16 --> 00:49:18 the same time vibe. And when I had a consultation with you,
00:49:19 --> 00:49:25 I was just like, whew, okay. That wasn't too bad I could get the quick shot. Okay, I got it. Yes.
00:49:26 --> 00:49:29 There's life here. There's life to be enjoyed and it's pleasant.
00:49:30 --> 00:49:31 You know, you're going to meet people.
00:49:32 --> 00:49:35 You're not going to have any problems finding expat communities.
00:49:35 --> 00:49:39 Look, your group is doing a good job of establishing a really great community.
00:49:39 --> 00:49:45 I've seen a lot of residents join that group and how quickly it's growing.
00:49:45 --> 00:49:49 So kudos to you for putting that together and the direction that you're taking. it in.
00:49:50 --> 00:49:54 So it's not going to be hard to adjust. And likewise for anybody watching this,
00:49:55 --> 00:49:57 again, don't let fear stop you.
00:49:57 --> 00:50:01 If it's going to be fear, be afraid of what happens if you stay.
00:50:01 --> 00:50:03 Ooh, that's my biggest one right there.
00:50:04 --> 00:50:09 Yeah, I can't do that. But I got to end this with a question.
00:50:09 --> 00:50:12 Yes, ma'am. And I want you to complete this sentence.
00:50:13 --> 00:50:18 Living in Panama has taught me That's a good one.
00:50:19 --> 00:50:23 I would say the first thing that jumped in my mind was humility.
00:50:24 --> 00:50:32 Yeah, this whole process, the downsizing, having to get rid of stuff, it was a game changer.
00:50:32 --> 00:50:36 You know, we were in that right race and just collecting things.
00:50:37 --> 00:50:40 As we were getting rid of stuff, we had been in a house like six years.
00:50:41 --> 00:50:46 I found three or four boxes that we packed to move into the house that we never unpacked.
00:50:46 --> 00:50:50 And I didn't even open them. I'm like, I don't know what's in them.
00:50:50 --> 00:50:51 We'd be living fine without it.
00:50:51 --> 00:50:55 Hey, there you go. And that was the lesson. Living fine without it,
00:50:56 --> 00:50:58 it really taught us what was important.
00:50:58 --> 00:51:02 We moved here with just six suitcases and then one box that got shipped.
00:51:02 --> 00:51:05 You know, we made a mistake and put a lot of furniture on storage,
00:51:05 --> 00:51:06 just that case, because fear.
00:51:07 --> 00:51:12 Well, in case this doesn't work out, we'll have to go back home and get a new
00:51:12 --> 00:51:15 place to live, but at least we won't have to buy new furniture.
00:51:15 --> 00:51:17 Look, that was a waste of money.
00:51:17 --> 00:51:21 Storage units started out at $214 a month.
00:51:21 --> 00:51:26 And by the time I got rid of it, it was just over $400. It went up every single year.
00:51:27 --> 00:51:30 And you're a captive audience and they know it. They know you're not going to
00:51:30 --> 00:51:34 not pay because, you know, the options look long.
00:51:34 --> 00:51:38 And which is exactly, you know, close to what happened. I didn't sell anything.
00:51:38 --> 00:51:42 You know, I contacted a very, very, very good cousin. Thank you so much for
00:51:42 --> 00:51:47 helping me out, who got access to the storage unit and basically had a yard
00:51:47 --> 00:51:49 sale. Call family. Like, y'all come get it.
00:51:50 --> 00:51:52 Whatever's in there, my golf clubs,
00:51:52 --> 00:51:56 they gave away all of my suits and bow ties, cufflinks to a charity.
00:51:57 --> 00:51:59 Then everything else was just take it.
00:52:00 --> 00:52:03 Yeah. The main thing for me was getting rid of that bill.
00:52:04 --> 00:52:09 I know that's right. That's the main thing, bro. You know, that $40 back,
00:52:09 --> 00:52:11 you know, that's a game changer.
00:52:11 --> 00:52:15 Exactly. Yeah, ma. That's a whole weekend in Cologne.
00:52:17 --> 00:52:20 Yeah i'd rather be you know chilling with that money instead of having a storage
00:52:20 --> 00:52:25 unit built that that definitely makes a lot of sense but i understand that downsizing
00:52:25 --> 00:52:29 because i mean you know i am feeling it i'm going through it right now yes and
00:52:29 --> 00:52:33 it is definitely eye-opening because when you look at all the things you've
00:52:33 --> 00:52:36 compiled you probably haven't used it in over a year,
00:52:37 --> 00:52:40 it's just taking up space and you just spent money on something and it's just
00:52:40 --> 00:52:45 a waste and you thought you needed it, but you really didn't need it.
00:52:45 --> 00:52:47 And to me, that's a humbling experience.
00:52:47 --> 00:52:51 I learned a little bit about myself. So, you know, we try to watch.
00:52:52 --> 00:52:56 Now we have a lot of different rules. Like, if we go to the mall and buy a new
00:52:56 --> 00:52:59 pair of shoes, okay. No one has to go.
00:53:00 --> 00:53:04 We're not going to be pack rats anymore. We're not going to just collect stuff.
00:53:05 --> 00:53:06 Because it's important.
00:53:07 --> 00:53:11 No, that's definitely a humbling experience I've, you know, had since we started this process.
00:53:11 --> 00:53:17 But Big Will you know you are the man I cannot wait to take one of your tours,
00:53:18 --> 00:53:21 and be like the Richardsons and have my,
00:53:22 --> 00:53:29 background up for Highlands I cannot wait I want your dad and you the three
00:53:29 --> 00:53:35 of you together on the boat at the same time we're going to make that happen in a couple of weeks,
00:53:35 --> 00:53:41 Amen from your mouth to God's ears check out Go Explore Panama Ma,
00:53:41 --> 00:53:48 highly recommend you go ahead and book that consultation and overcome that fear. Live your best life.
00:53:49 --> 00:53:51 There it is. Couldn't have said it better.
00:53:55 --> 00:53:59 Wow, what a conversation. And I want to give a big thank you to Big Will of
00:53:59 --> 00:54:03 Go Explore Panama for joining me and dropping such informative and insightful
00:54:03 --> 00:54:07 and down-to-earth knowledge about what it's really like to live and relocate to Panama.
00:54:07 --> 00:54:11 I can't wait to meet him in person once I touch down at Panama myself.
00:54:11 --> 00:54:17 So stay tuned because more updates are definitely coming on this new chapter of Living Life Abroad.
00:54:17 --> 00:54:21 And if you enjoyed this episode, do me a favor. Hit that subscribe button.
00:54:21 --> 00:54:24 Share it with a friend who's been daydreaming about living abroad.
00:54:24 --> 00:54:29 And if you'd like to show some love, you can support this podcast at buymeacoffee.com
00:54:29 --> 00:54:32 backslash talktomemichelle with one L.
00:54:33 --> 00:54:36 And if you're curious or ready to learn more about life in Panama,
00:54:36 --> 00:54:40 you got to join us on our Facebook community at Panama Life Network.
00:54:40 --> 00:54:45 We're sharing real resources, real stories and building real connections for
00:54:45 --> 00:54:46 people who are ready to take the leap.
00:54:46 --> 00:54:51 Until next episode, stay curious, stay inspired. And as always, peace.