Ep 394: Understanding the Suburbanization of Youth Sports

[00:00:00] Liquor Talk, another new episode starts now. Ladies and gentlemen, get those drinks poured up. I don't care if it's rum, I don't care if it's tequila, I don't care if it's a beer, I don't care if it's some wine. Whatever you like to sip on, get it poured up for this episode today. Joining me today, ladies and gentlemen, having a drink with me today is Mr. Adam L. Spencer. He's an agent, sports agent, and he's a veteran. By the way, Mr. Spencer, I want to say thank you for your service. And I know Veterans Day is coming up, so I thank you for your service.

[00:00:29] And also thank you for being on Liquor Talk. And thank you to our friends at Podmatch for providing this guest to us today. How are you doing today? Hey, appreciate your time. Look forward to the conversation, brother. Definitely looking forward to it, man. So tell us a little bit about what you do. I understand you're a sports agent. Tell us what you're doing. How did you get into being a sports agent?

[00:00:48] So I work in sports management. I've represented athletes in the past. We'll be back into basketball soon on the international side. I spent five years working as what they call intermediary under the guise of U.S. soccer as a sports agent.

[00:01:10] I also do consulting on the sports business side with rights holders in a partnership with MEI, Major Events International out of London. And I also do some consulting on my own.

[00:01:25] And so I got into this towards the end of my military career. Back in 2012, we had just got back from Afghanistan. I was living a little further down south than where I am right now.

[00:01:44] I had just bought a house. I was six years from retirement at the time. And, you know, there's this old saying in the army as you get closer to retirement or UTS. What do you want to do when you grow up?

[00:02:02] So, you know, it was some time I had to sit down and really think about what I wanted to do, where life was going to take me and what I wanted to do with that because I knew, hey, once I hit 20, I'm done. I'm a throw in the towel. You know, can't complain about the military career, but, you know, it was just time to move in a different direction.

[00:02:27] Understood. Understood. So why 20? Because I've heard some guys, they did 30 and 35 years. So was 20 always your magic number or how did that decision come about? Hell no. My number was to never do it in the first place. As my barber Mike would say, you start living life on life's terms.

[00:02:54] And, you know, you make the most of it. Got in, got settled in and, you know, kind of got comfortable with what I was doing. Spent most of my career in Europe, in Germany. So I was happy about that, you know. And one day you end up, you look up, okay, you about to sign this contract and you're indefinite. Okay. That means I'm going to 20 unless something happens.

[00:03:21] Some people go past 30 and go to 30, 35, 40 years. You know, certain goals that they have, certain ambitions that they have, certain options that they have. That was not me. That was not me. You know, it was just time mentally, physically, and emotionally to go do something else in life. I understand. I completely understand that, you know.

[00:03:49] But like I said, thank you for your service because not everybody's able to do 20 years in military. Because I know people that they get only discharged after one year and stuff. So for you to do 20, hey, big ups to you, man. I hope it was worth the ride. But what are some of the biggest takeaways from your military career that you want people to understand? And also some youngsters who could be listening, want them to understand as well.

[00:04:16] Oh, nobody's asked me that before. Biggest takeaway. Oh, I think I got to experience life on an international level. And as I said, I spent 13 years in Germany. Basically, 10 of those, I live with what you would consider off post or on the economy. For lack of a better term, amongst the natives.

[00:04:46] So, to a degree, because I was always on my own after I was single, you had to immerse yourself in community. And because living over there, you know, services like the PX commissary, all that stuff, all that stuff was shut down by 8 o'clock at night.

[00:05:07] So, if you needed anything after 8 o'clock at night, you know, it was on, you had to get it in the local community or go find it wherever in Germany. So, I think that was good for growth and good for personal maturity for me as a man. So, I think that's what I'm having to do for myself.

[00:05:33] Being on my own, you know, and not just being on your own, having to look after a house. Ensuring your meals don't consist of McDonald's, which number one or number two I'm getting from McDonald's today. You know, and, you know, being able to socialize and navigate social situations amongst people who aren't from the culture.

[00:06:02] Wow. Yes, sir. That's amazing. And I think the World Cup just exposed that because I saw all them foreigners, they love an American culture. I was not surprised, living it at for so long. Unfortunately, where we are politically and socially, constrain that to a certain few.

[00:06:29] Instead of truly exposing who we are, what we are, and what we can be to the world. Yeah, it's like, I feel like if you took politics out of it, the world just got along fine. The World Cup exposed that because everybody in America was just getting along and just blending together. Together, you know. And they were all so fascinated by American culture and the people in America. So I got to give shout outs to those people because they were so friendly, so welcoming.

[00:06:58] I ain't never seen America this welcoming, you know. Well, if we're honest, it's because we weren't dealing with each other. You know, secondly, I think everyone looked forward to this. As some folks say, our situation with soccer every four years between the men and the women and the Olympics comes up. And so we find a way to get behind the team.

[00:07:25] And, you know, take in the experience. And, you know, more than anything, we're Americans, so we love showing off. Whether it's the food scene or our stadiums, you know, we love showing off and bumping our chest. We really do. You're right about that. And you know what?

[00:07:50] And I said to myself after watching that, I said, there are some things in America I will not take for granted again because the way that other people's countries are so fascinated by America, it was crazy. And, you know, while we're on that subject of soccer, I really believe the women, they kind of got it unlocked. Women are good. But the men's soccer, I feel like they need to try to get some brothers, recruit some brothers out the hood, try to get them off the football field.

[00:08:15] And then maybe the USA Soccer will be getting knocked out in the second round on home turf. I don't know. What were your takes on that? Well, let's baseline this. The program has done exactly what it is supposed to be. Mm-hmm. There's no, all these critiques and hot takes. The program did exactly what it is supposed to be.

[00:08:38] Hope Solo said something a few years ago that ruffled, you know, some of y'all's patriotic feathers where she said, it's a suburban white sport. That's what it's always been. That's who we, that's who U.S. soccer and the powers that be geared themselves towards.

[00:09:03] We've never had an American-born head coach of a national team from outside of New Jersey. If you go back to the early 2000s, the days of the blogs and all of those things, if you read a soccer blog about a local youth tournament, you were guaranteed to read about how there was some Mexican kid or Central American or South American kid.

[00:09:28] And what was the best player on the field, but didn't get the trophy because nobody wanted to ask him for his favor. Mm-hmm. That emboldens the suburban white suburban kid. Okay.

[00:09:49] You've made it a suburban white sport with a few, you know, few folks from different ethnicities of immigrant culture. And much like, well, this is a problem across youth sports in general now. Everything's suburbanized. Wow. Everything now is attached to suburban resources. We can get away with that in basketball.

[00:10:16] We can get away with it in football, but you can't get away with that in soccer because you shrink or you basically move the grassroots. Right. Right. That's not a, it is an issue of race, but it doesn't have to be because the grassroots, the true grassroots conversation is the average kid on the street or on the corner, out in the field or wherever, kicking the ball.

[00:10:46] Learning technique, learning how to get a proper touch. Not just he's the best athlete and can run up the field a hundred miles an hour. That's the old national team. This new national team does have a concept of play. It does have a style of play, which you couldn't say in the past. But that style of play now needs more technically sound players.

[00:11:14] And you can't do that if your focus is some kid who's playing on a well-manicured field and somebody's mama's asking any kid unfamiliar, do they belong here?

[00:11:34] And so the problem becomes what has happened is all the youth development is still in suburban social settings, suburban climates, suburban environments. You look at youth development now within that pay to play discussion. They're all suburban clubs in the MLS next. So at what point do the powers that be want to be like, we need to change something?

[00:12:03] Because they cannot be happy with just going out in the second round at every World Cup or some years not even qualifying on the men's side. When you have these European countries who have embraced people from other nationalities, because I know you see in Spain, they have some nationalities from black African countries. And hell, even most of the European countries that made it to the semifinals, they had a lot of black players that were from African descent.

[00:12:34] Well, the players of African descent, most that's a remnant of colonialism. And that migration was something I saw when I first got to Germany in 98. That was this, some of the current quote unquote issues that Europe has with migration kind of started back then.

[00:12:56] So now you're on second and third generation families of African descent that have spent their entire lives in Germany, spent their entire lives in Holland, France, England, Ireland, Scotland, Spain, Portugal, you name it. And so it shows itself not only in the game of soccer, but look at the Olympics, shows up there also.

[00:13:26] And so we can't act like Europe is not going through its own social issues with race because it is. It is, but I think they're... Somebody out there you see will tell you that. But because of the development of the game there, they're developing players and they're just going after players more. I would say. And they have much better mechanisms in place than what we have.

[00:13:53] We don't have the solidarity payment system in place. We're supposed to, but we don't. We just kind of go rogue with that. I don't know if you remember the 2014 World Cup, but DeAndre Levin was playing up here with the Sounders. He played the 2014 World Cup. He's from Western Washington. He ended up part of the crossfire system across the water here in Redmond.

[00:14:20] So after the 2014 World Cup, he transfers to Tottenham in London. A lawsuit came about his solidarity payments to what would be considered, if I remember the FIFA term correctly, the parent club or the birth club or the discovery club. So the reason why the court case first came up is because Sounders got payment for his transfer.

[00:14:50] Crossfire Club, which is a suburban team, suburban club, pay to play, didn't get payment. So DeAndre Yedlin is not from Redmond. He's actually from Federal Way. So I'm quite sure there's a smaller, less financially stable youth team in Federal Way. That was the actual discovery club that should have gotten part of that transfer. But they didn't.

[00:15:16] And U.S. soccer is kind of U.S. soccer, MLS kind of dismissed it because you keep pay to play. If you have solid, if you have solid, if you have solid payments to the discovery club, if you will, in place and doing it properly, you have much more financial stability across the board throughout the game.

[00:15:41] Whether we're a high-end, well-funded suburban club or, you know, we're just basically a rec league. Somebody's daddy or mom coach the team. They get together two or three times a week to practice and play on Saturday and Sunday. So that's one of the basic things that are kind of, as I said earlier, you know, we are what we're supposed to be. The system is done what it's supposed to be.

[00:16:09] And that's one of the things that's really stunting you because you don't have support and funding at what is considered the true grassroots level. You don't have small-sided fields off. You might have a basketball court, but you don't have what they have in Europe, what they consider a cage, where you might get, yes, you've got basketball goals on both ends.

[00:16:36] But on the ground, there's two soccer nets, one on each end. That hard top is painted for both basketball and soccer. Those close quarters and small-sided games is where you develop a touch and ability to play in close quarters. We don't have that. We're concerned with, you know, $3,000 per player pay-to-play.

[00:17:06] $3,000? Yeah. And this is not me talking about it. These are European superstars who come to the MLS towards the end of their career and wanted to put the kids in their academy and said academy or club team. They were complaining about it's $3,000. Wow, that is ridiculous. And you know what?

[00:17:28] Until it changes, I guess we're not going to have the results we expect because I don't know anybody in the hood who got $3,000 sitting around to be paying for a soccer program. So I guess all the great black athletes are going to continue to go to football and go to basketball. And I even had some people wondering why they stopped going to baseball because I know you see them contracts baseball players get, but yet a small number of black is the small number of black athletes now.

[00:17:55] Think of the issues with soccer as far as pay-to-play and then add on travel baseball. Add on the equipment, buying a bat.

[00:18:11] And with the sophistication of the way the game is now, you just can't keep buying any bat because, you know, if he's worth anything, the kid's going to ruin the bat quickly because he's too good.

[00:18:26] So you have the pay-to-play issue, travel issue, the finances behind the travel, and then also just to play the sport, the amount that they quickly cost just to play the sport. So that's baseball's issue. Wow.

[00:18:48] So we have to come to grips with the idea that youth sports in this country, and it's really a global, becoming a global issue. Youth sports are suburbanized. Youth sports are suburbanized. You know what? You're right about that, and come to think about it, because it wasn't like this growing up. But come to think about it, you were right on the money about it being suburbanized. So it's like, at what point do the people, the higher powers, be saying, we need to change this?

[00:19:14] Or are they too busy looking at their revenue, their profits, to be like, hey, we don't want to change this because we're raking in the money? We would have to be willing to, first and foremost, deal with social narratives, the underlying social issues that come with that concept. You know, we can let Nick Saban go run off to Congress and complain and complain and complain. I'm going to get to that, too. Oh, yeah. I'm going to get to that, too. That was on the list, though. I'm going to get to that. But, yeah.

[00:19:44] But continue. I think it's nine Jaguar dealerships he's got. Nine Jaguar dealerships. I think that's it. I read the numbers somewhere one time. And not only that, there's a social issue of the money that made off the back of black labor. And now, because NIL's changing that, now that's why he raising hell about it.

[00:20:09] I'm like, you would have a problem when these athletes would come. They were forced to go to Alabama. And now you win all the national championships. And now you don't retire because NIL then came in. And now NIL even out of the playing field. And I heard in some states, some lawmakers have been raising hell about it because it's simply that it just goes back. It feels like it goes back to racism because they don't want the young black athlete making the money.

[00:20:35] Well, that's the chief underlying issue. But what has happened is we've kind of played into our so-called morals and ran to this term student athlete. The term student athlete is not a thing. This was something that was dreamed up, I believe, in a 1951 court case.

[00:21:03] Athletes were suing, I believe, the NCAA for insurance and protection if they got injured, especially in a sport like football. So to avoid that, the counter-argument was that we're paying for your education. You're a student athlete. That's where that term comes from. And it took them damn near 60 years to realize these players have value as well, you know. But these colleges have built empires.

[00:21:33] These coaches have made so much money. And then coaches could just leave somewhere and just up and leave like it's nothing. But then when the student athlete does it because, hey, why do I want to sit on the bench for three years when this school is offering me money and I can go play? So it's always cool when I do it, but when you do it, it's a problem. So as a sports agent, how are you feeling when you're seeing this? Well, I see the obvious.

[00:22:03] And I think especially from a communal perspective, it's some serious conversations we have to have. And it starts with the parents. If you will be living vicariously for your kid. You need to stand up for them because they might not know everything. They don't know everything. And you need to step in as the parent because, hey, you're going to be trying to get some of this money, right?

[00:22:31] You're going to have the expectation in the black community that some of that money is going to go towards mama and daddy who are probably still struggling. But respect to the parents who actually turn that money down to your kid to save up. And that's where this whole thing of boycotting the SEC schools comes in. You know, and come to think about it, I live in the SEC state in Florida, so it makes sense.

[00:23:00] But how did you feel when you had somebody, a black plunder like Stephen A. Smith going on his show like, oh, why are we boycotting this? I'm like, bro, come on now. Well, shout out to Steve. He's got his stick. Oh, I think, as I said earlier, within that, first and foremost, we're going to have to start. We're going to have to get engaged with the parents. Secondly, we just can't be sending these kids out to slaughter.

[00:23:30] That's a fact. Because as soon as the kid announces, hey, I chose Cal or Stanford, I chose Syracuse or Boston College over Alabama or Tennessee because of their refusal to step into the 21st century and renew voting rights law for lack of a better term.

[00:24:01] That kid is going to get murdered on social media. One of the conversations we don't talk about is the way folks were after Travis Hunter after he decided to go to Jackson State. From Florida State to Jackson State. That's a conversation we still don't have. Yeah. I saw those conversations. I saw that hate. I'm like, you know what?

[00:24:24] But we encourage these kids to go to the black schools and now other people I want to hate on. I'm like, y'all hating. And what angers me is because I graduated from a black school as well. It's like these people go so hard for these institutions that 50, 60 years ago, your black ass couldn't even get into. Constantly, you know, wherever you get it at. More power to you. I ain't mad at you. Get it. But with that said, please understand.

[00:24:56] That school has a if they still have a program, a black student organization for a reason. Mm-hmm. It's just not there to be cool. It's just not there to keep up with your times. There's a reason behind it. Yes, there is. There are untold stories behind that that we have to also keep in mind. That's right. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Liquor Talk.

[00:25:25] The more you drink, the better you sound. I hope you guys are enjoying this sports talk today we having on this episode, y'all. This is some very wise things, some things that we need to be looking at, what we need to look into and stuff. So what is something about DEI, not DEI, but NIL and college athletics that people may not understand? You know, because they see it on ESPN and stuff. They see all the baseline talks. What are some of the other issues that don't come up that will help them understand what's going on?

[00:25:54] Well, the first thing that we have to understand that NIL has legitimized what was already happening in the country. So in America, and I kind of wrote about this in a substack article, we have a different pipeline than what goes on internationally. What goes on internationally, hey, if you're good enough, you're going to play. We're going to figure out a contract.

[00:26:23] If it's with mom, if we figure it out with mom and dad, fine. If we figure it out with an agent, fine. But we're going to figure out a contract and you'll get paid. We don't have that here in America. So what NIL has done is sort of restructured the pathway to where we have our own quasi form of what's been going on internationally for lifetimes.

[00:26:47] So basically, in a sense, America is just now catching up because I've noticed that with like pro basketball and like pro baseball and even pro soccer, like there's been players playing since they were like 16 or 17 years old. And then they get over here, over to America, and they really like ball out and they're really more developed than the ones who are in the programs and stuff. It's probably because a lot of times it is suburbanized compared to over there.

[00:27:12] What you have here, what we have here is maybe like a big funnel or a big silo where it's big and broad at the bottom. And the tier level and the system level and the talent level weeds itself out. So like it's more like a silo. It gets smaller and smaller. The closer the numbers get smaller and smaller. Closer you get to the top. Closer you get to the top is where more of the money is involved.

[00:27:40] Because with American sports, these aren't clubs. Yes, the clubs in Europe especially make big money in all the things. They market themselves globally. You know, get the international sponsorship. All the things. But their roots are in a community. The roots of an American professional sports team is as a franchise. Things ain't working real well here. I don't get along with local officials.

[00:28:09] I can't have my way. I pick up the team and go. You can't even do that in England or somewhere else. You don't see that. You don't. The owner is not as. Yes, the owner. Him or her. Yes, they are social figures. Obviously. But they're not the social figures that are attached to the clubs that we see here. Yeah, they're not. They don't have the final say basically.

[00:28:38] They do have final say. But they're not as out in front, if you will, as we have here. Because if you look at a lot of the European. If you listen to European sports media. They'll see in a championship. The owner gets the trophy. And they be like, well, why does the owner get the trophy? He hasn't done a thing. And see, and you know, and that's why. That's why I kind of respect what hockey does. Is where the players get the trophy first in hockey.

[00:29:07] Compared to football, basketball, and baseball. Where the owner gets their hands on the trophy first. And I'm like. To this day, I still look at it like. That's still not fair to me. Well, the owner is the club here. Mm-hmm. The owner is very. Which is a very prominent figure. Very front-facing figure. Whereas you look globally.

[00:29:36] Yes, you know, depending on the size of the club. And the international appeal of the team. Some owners are front-facing. But it's not every one of them. It's people that can name every owner of every team in the NFL. Every owner of every team in the NBA. They, once you become an owner of a team in this country, you're a social figure. Maybe not a national social figure.

[00:30:03] But you are definitely a socialite in that community. That's a fact. That's definitely a fact. Because you see the owners out front. They will every, like, highlight every TV show. Every time a game is on TV, they will quickly highlight the owner. So, what is the next big move in sports that people might not be looking forward to? Because I know in baseball, they keep talking about a lockout about to happen in 2027. And the way everything's sounded, it sounds like this. It's inevitable at this point.

[00:30:29] So, what's another big sports move that you could see happening in 2027 and beyond? Watch the NFL and going back into the TV. Ooh. I heard about that because I know that ESPN now has a piece of NFL network now. Right. So, and I forget exactly what they did, but they went, they set things up so they could go back in

[00:30:59] and start early talks on a new TV. If you pay attention to the MLS, there's a new commissioner now coming in. Larry Bird. They're coming up on TV deal conversation. And also, I believe with the MLS, they're shifting to a European calendar now. They're going to run still into the Europeans. Correct. Now we're going to see what kind of true soccer fandom we have in this country. For real?

[00:31:24] Not the truest, quote unquote, European calendar in the truest sense. But if you're going to start the season in July, you're running into the beginning and basically the high point, going through the high points of the NFL season. And then you're going to have basketball season. Basketball season. You got baseball season in the playoffs. Yep.

[00:31:51] Baseball playoffs all start first half. After the winter break, you're now talking about backstop up against March Madness. NBA playoffs. NHL playoffs. Right. Playoffs. And then baseball starting back up again. Baseball starting back up.

[00:32:15] And by about running right around towards the end of the season, we start talking about Asia Wilson again. And the devil. Yep. And it's very interesting to me. I was quite surprised. Having lived in Europe, I got to see this firsthand. The MLS schedule as currently constructed, especially in a year like this, where it's a major tournament. What happens is about, and this is with or without a major tournament.

[00:32:42] What happens about late May to early June to pretty much mid to late July, early August, MLS is basically only soccer around. Yeah. Soccer and baseball. But no, as a soccer, just as soccer. Hmm. When you look globally. Oh, okay. Globally. That's right. That's right. Because I won't. It's not the only one, but it's the most viable. Lee.

[00:33:11] So you have an entire international platform. These countries were buying, before they went to Apple, television networks and other countries were buying the rights to show the MLS in said country. So you were basically the only game in town. Now, yeah, if you're in Europe, it might come up.

[00:33:34] It don't come up until 7 o'clock at night and the league season and the league day may run until 2, 3, 4 o'clock in the morning. But you're the only game or the only viable league in town. Wow. That's some diehard soccer fans in Europe that will stay up and watch the MLS. I never knew that. Well, you should have seen them during this past World Cup. I've seen it because all the Europeans were coming over here that hard for the World Cup. So, yeah, I can definitely understand.

[00:34:03] But I didn't really think that they were down with the MLS like that while the MLS was the only show in town. And see, what happened, that happened right when Pulisic went to Dortmund. So what else also happened? It started with Bundesliga in Germany. The scouts started coming instead of going straight to South, either going to Central America or straight to South America. Now, Bundesliga set up headquarters in New York, set up a headquarters in New York.

[00:34:33] So the scouting trip from Germany now starts coming across the water to New York, scouting the MLS and then going south. All because of after the 2014 World Cup, U.S. soccer had taken a step forward. And more of the clubs were beginning to start to invest in the academy. So, and with Klinsman coaching the team and him wanting all the guys to go to Europe, that was basically the front door.

[00:35:00] This is why you see Pulisic, Ware, McKinney, Tyler Adams, you name it. It goes back to what was going on in the run-up to 2014 and post-2014. And so what you saw was a pathway now and a reason for the scouts, European scouts, to come to the States and take a view of play.

[00:35:27] So now with this calendar changing, you think this is going to further that? Or is it going to, you know, how do you think that's going to play out? So I've talked to some people. A buddy of mine told me his thoughts was the calendar change helps the players because of the European transfer window. It's a lot easier to settle in during the summer window than it was during the winter window.

[00:35:54] Now the winter window was helping MLS because you were putting MLS on front and center with available players because the league season had ended. But players were having to go to Europe. If they were going to England, you would have gone during the Christmas calendar, which is the most brutal part of the schedule in England. If you're going somewhere else in Europe, they were on winter break. You've already been on break for a month.

[00:36:21] They're back going off to the Mediterranean or wherever for training where they're getting back. They're further ahead than you are as far as getting back in the game shape. So now you've got to get into game shape, get back into game shape, find a place to stay, do whatever you do with your family, and learn a new language and a new culture.

[00:36:52] Yeah, that's a lot to do in small amount of time. Yes. So the calendar change actually helps the players from a transfer perspective. I don't know if it helps the league from a visibility perspective because come August, okay, MLS now is from like 4 a.m. in the morning on a Saturday where I live.

[00:37:14] Come August, September, it starts Premier League, Bundesliga, Spain, Italy, all European leagues are on television. And then you've got the U.S. or Champions League. Midweek, yeah, Champions League midweek. Mm-hmm. Okay, so on a Saturday from 4 a.m., you've got the European League. September at 9 a.m., College Game Day is on. Yep.

[00:37:40] 12 p.m., which is generally your best Premier League games on, and they, you know, whether it's an ACC game or a Big Ten game, has started now. Yeah, because Fox is going to have their big noon kickoff where Fox has their marquee game in the afternoon for the morning, it's the afternoon session. And then, you know, you'll have the SEC as well and all those other conferences.

[00:38:07] So, it's going to be a lot of competition for the MLS, so I hope they know what they're doing. So, by 3.30, the CBS Big Ten game is kicked off. Notre Dame's on NBC. If not, there's a Big Ten game on NBC. MLS moved all of their stuff to Apple TV. Right now, Fox is a linear partner, but it's not the main linear partner. Fox only gets a few games a year, right, as of where the TV deal is now.

[00:38:35] So, the MLS have to go back in, in my opinion, and find a linear partner. Yeah, they need to, but honestly, I don't know who the linear partner is going to be because almost every network is going to be showing college football. And also, the NFL as well. You got the NFL on Sunday, so I don't know who's going to be the linear partner for the MLS. Yes. And I don't think ESPN is going to pick it back up.

[00:39:02] Well, they might because there's rumors that ESPN wants the World Cup back. Right. I also heard that NBC might want the World Cup as well. And Netflix. Yeah. And so, the MLS is rumored to want Premier League money in the next DVD. Good luck with that, but, you know, somebody might pay it. I don't know.

[00:39:27] But the thing about it, to get that kind of money, you're going to have to have a linear partner, a major linear partner showing. And because of where mainstream media and television is now, you're going to have to have a linear partner that has the streaming and maybe has another channel like NBC does with USAA to be able to show your games.

[00:39:55] Because USA has the majority of Premier League games, but USA is based on cable. So, if you got cable at all, you got USA. Right. And, yeah, because I know it's USA and NBC, so Premier League, because I know some games come on as well. So, with that being said, it's going to be an interesting move, you know. So, now shifting over to college football since college football starts starting up.

[00:40:23] In the present world of college football realignment and college realignment, what do you think is next for college sports? Because I'm not going to lie to you, man. Man, watching USC and Michigan and it's a Big Ten game, that to me don't make sense. Also, Stanford and California being in the ACC don't make sense to me, man. Like, so what do you think is this rednecks, redline, because none of it makes sense. And it's like, I miss the geographical rivalries, you know, we were getting.

[00:40:52] But now we barely get those. We don't, we're not going to get those matchups anymore. So, college football lost its regionality long before this. So, let's go back historically. You have the USC-Alabama game in 1970 that kind of folks love to say, folks love to marry, breaks the ratios a lot. And black players start playing the SEC. What happens in 1979?

[00:41:22] Well, excuse me. Let's start. Let's go back one more year. 1978, you get this Division I and Division I double-A split. What happens in 1979? ESPN forms. Push forward to 1984.

[00:41:39] You get the ruling in the lawsuit that Oklahoma and Georgia have against the NCAA to get control of their media, basically control of their media rights. This is also when cable is spreading across the country. And what we know as RSN now, RSNs now, the regional sports networks, will pop up.

[00:42:05] So, if you were from the East Coast like me, you were seeing all the ACC games on, you know, whatever network. Yeah, Jefferson Pilot. Raycon. Yeah. Fox, as that grew, you began to see Fox Sports Midwest, Fox Sports North. Fox Sports Town, Sports Tour, yeah. And then they got bought out.

[00:42:29] What ESPN didn't get or what the linear networks didn't get, they were, RSNs would get. Okay. So, as more money came in, you had more boosters. Well, as more money came in, culture in America also changes. We've become an upwardly mobile society. Why is that important? Because let's say I graduate from Michigan. Take Michigan.

[00:42:58] My first job post-graduation might be in Detroit, okay? So, I'm – my access to Michigan football, no issue. But the next job is in Boston or the next job is Philadelphia. Now, I'm fighting my – especially during that period, I'm going to fight with my dad on cable company to see Michigan football. Yeah, because this was before the Big Ten Network came out. Right. Right.

[00:43:25] Now, if I'm a high-end booster, I'm up in the president's office cussing everybody out. Why can't I watch Michigan football? Right. Right. Right. And this kind of sets the stage for where we are now because off of that came the conference networks. Mm-hmm. Then broader deals with Delinean networks. So, everything got nationalized.

[00:43:52] As long as I was a Division I school, Division I, what they call FBS now, school, all my stuff is nationalized. Mm-hmm. Or I'm in a conference where everything should be or I'm seeing other schools nationalized. And that has trickle-on effect. Would we care about Madison, Wisconsin right now if not for the Big Ten? We probably wouldn't. And the only thing we know – yeah, because we know that they're playing Notre Dame the first game of the season, you know?

[00:44:22] Mm-hmm. And part of that goes back to in the 70s, you didn't get on television unless you were a big brand or you were good. Like Miami. The Westerns of the world, the Vanderbilts of the world. They weren't getting on television. Unless you were playing Michigan, unless you were playing Alabama, unless you were playing Florida, and Florida was good that year. You didn't get on television.

[00:44:49] So, what you had is an entire landscape change. ESPN, RSN, you know, national television. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a major change. And now with streaming, now you can take the game wherever you want to go now. Exactly. That's part of the nationalized argument. And this is why you hear these stories if you follow sports business about where's the death

[00:45:18] nail of the RSN's coming? Yeah, because I thought it was Ben and Ben and Dad, because I know for baseball, it got so bad with the RSN's, the MLB started producing most of the games for most of the teams. Exactly. And so, you know, part of the problem with the RSN's is if you'll notice where RSN's are important, baseball and basketball especially, those are very important.

[00:45:45] Those leagues, as far as competitiveness, got very close to Los Angeles teams, New York teams, Boston teams. Yeah. All very good. Part of the reason, you can get a, you can make more money off the RSN deal than I can in, let's say, Cleveland or Milwaukee. So, Salt Lake City. Yeah.

[00:46:14] But you know what's bad about that is I know they have the RSN deals, but then there's some teams that are like the Mets. They're still terrible. And I'm like, how are y'all terrible when y'all on a big market, you know? But you got the small market teams out playing the big market teams. And I think that's another reason for the lockout because I think the big market teams are looking like the smaller market teams, like while y'all not spending and stuff. And the players, it's a whole mess in baseball. But I know in like the other sports, it could be like that as well.

[00:46:43] But we did have a big market team win the NBA finals in New York. So. Yeah. And baseball is now with. The idea of a true hard salary. So for those people at home that might not understand that, why wouldn't the players want the true hard salary cap? Because does this mean they're not going to get the exorbitant contracts like the or a team like the Dodgers are finally going to stop trying to be like the Yankees everything you just said. Okay.

[00:47:14] You sort of shrink the ability to make money while the teams also become much more even. You have what true hard enforceable salary caps give you the NFL. Yeah. If you look at the NFL, you hear a lot of their players when they complain about the contract. They're looking at basketball money and the baseball money.

[00:47:41] Yeah, because basketball and baseball money are like guaranteed contracts, correct? Much more guaranteed money. Whether I'm on the team, you cut whatever the case is, there's much more guaranteed money involved and much more money involved. Now, what football does give you is competitive battle. Football is a true test of how your organization's run.

[00:48:03] From the draft to free agency right to preseason and final cuts to the product I put on the fee in week one. Now, football, because of the salary cap, is a true test of the entire organization. Whereas, you look at baseball, the Dodgers got a great organization, but they can also spend money. Right.

[00:48:30] As much as this sickens my stomach to say it, the Yankees and the Red Sox can spend money. So, wait. So, the Yankees, okay. I agree with you there because it's sick of me being a Tampa fan. I've had to deal with the Yankees and Red Sox for years. And as bad as some of them live in Florida and they will get on the race. I'm like, y'all got billionaires that can spend buku money, you know.

[00:48:56] And I think part of the race challenge is that they were an expansion organization. They weren't embedded in – they don't have that embedded emotional capital, if you will, in Tampa. Because that used to be the spring training home of the Yankees, if I'm not mistaken. It still is. It still is despite the fact that the Rays are in St. Pete, you know. And even though they're trying to get the Rays to Tampa, that's still going to be a spring training home for the Yankees.

[00:49:26] So, I think that's one of the Rays' challenges is that they're the remnants of, I think, baseball. Yeah. One of baseball's last expansions. Yeah, Arizona and Tampa were the last expansions. Yeah. So, they don't have that homogeneous cultural connection to said city. Yeah. Well, the connection is improving. I guess when you win, start winning.

[00:49:55] The winning will improve the connection. So, now, what about basketball? Because I know it's basketball the same way because you see a lot of teams getting punished by this first apron, the second apron, you know. And they can't keep the super teams together. Basketball is a conundrum because – this is just my opinion.

[00:50:13] I think some of the data and the data-driven stuff has ruined – just like in baseball far as young player development and developing a hitter. The data has ruined basketball development. We see a kid shoot 40% from three. He's long, can defend a little bit, but his game really hasn't developed. Three and D. And that's his label for the rest of his career.

[00:50:43] There's no more care to develop his game or no more desire for most teams to develop his game further than that three and D. Well, that's sad because I know over in Europe, they spend all the time developing, you know, their talent. They develop everything. And I guess that's kind of why you're seeing the last five or six MVPs, all foreign-born players.

[00:51:09] Well, that development starts – that development is much better at a youth level. So, you look at the European product that comes here. Okay, everybody's into an all-around game now. We're not telling 7'4", whoever, get your big ass down in the post and don't move it anymore. We're comfortable if he can handle the ball. We're comfortable if he can shoot it.

[00:51:35] Ralph Sampson was 30 – about 30 to 40 years before his time. So, what I'm saying about the European play, what you're seeing is a kid who's much more developed at the youth level. And then with what I was talking about before with the feeder system, 15, 16, you know, look at Dodgers. You can play. You're playing with the big team, with the first team.

[00:52:02] And so, when he comes here, he's already had to be around adult situations. He's seen a professional – if they brought him into the – depending on the club, they brought him in at 8 years old to the team. He's seen a – he's been in an environment where he's laid eyes possibly on a professional since he was 8 years old. Whatever that looks like.

[00:52:27] Whereas here, we're so – like I said, we've got a funnel. It's very broad at the bottom with the rec league, the AAU, the middle school, all of this. And then, you know, at the next level, it gets a little smaller because now it's high school and the AAU. Excuse me. And then it shrinks down even more to college.

[00:52:51] Then it shrinks even more with the NBA and navigating what you – navigating a salary cap. Is it a loose salary cap? Yes. But you're still having to navigate it. And also, like as I said earlier, you're now navigating the analytics, which have their place, yes. But I think they've hurt development.

[00:53:18] And then Oklahoma City is the only team I've seen get actual value out of drafting with. Well, it will help that they have a good – they have good coaches and they know how to develop. And it helps when teams make stupid trades with them, you know, and they can get, you know, good assets. But the thing about it is they've been able to keep those assets when they draft it.

[00:53:44] If you look at the NBA, one of the great problems you've seen is, okay, take it – it's like the Hornets are famous for this. Every few years or so, they'll draft and develop well and get a playoff team together. That next season when it's time to pay folks, the golden states in the world, the Lakers, the Knicks, Sixers, Miami Heat are able to pay more, trade for said player.

[00:54:14] Now he's a piece on a championship team. That's the same for a girl. I think that a team either A, falls apart, or B, instead of five draft picks that have kind of over the five-year span been developed together and grown up together as a team, it's now down to two people who were the foundation of a draft three or four years ago. Right. Right.

[00:54:40] I know the Orlando Magic, I've seen they had that same problem. I've seen the Miami Heat have that same problem as well. But, you know, but sometimes I know Miami can just go bigot players, you know. So I've seen – definitely seen both spectrums of that. So we're going to bring this to a close, though. What is your closing thought? What you want people to understand about the business of sports before we get out of here? Be informed. Be informed. If you want to get into this business, don't be scared to be informed.

[00:55:11] Don't be scared of new information. Don't be scared to read because information is key and information changes daily. That's a fact. That's a fact. How can the people get in touch with you? Just type in Spencer Group International on Instagram. That's real. That's cool. That's real.

[00:55:40] Mr. Spencer, I want to thank you for your time today. Thank you for having a drink with me. Thank you for blessing the liquors up with your presence. Really did enjoy this conversation. It really is my opening facts about sports media that I personally didn't know as well. And I'm pretty sure the listeners at home have got to have a new take and a new appreciation for sports media and everything that you do as well. I hope you keep doing being great, man. I appreciate you for coming on. Hey, brother. It's absolute pleasure. Hey, thank you again.

[00:56:07] Thank you to the listeners out there for listening to this episode of Liquor Talk as we're on the journey to 400 episodes. Thank you, everybody, for tuning in, having a drink with us, whether you tune down on our podcast, Spotify, iHeartRadio. And once again, thank you to our friends at PodMatch for providing his guests to us. Until the next episode, peace.