[00:00:00] another brand new episode starts right now. So get your liquor ready, get pulled up, pull up your shot, whatever you like and remember to subscribe on our podcast Spotify, iHeart Radio, wherever you get your podcasts at. I'll be your man Victor today here in Florida. And today on this episode, this is the first international episode. My guest is joining me from Italy right now. That's probably one of the last places I really think somebody black would be in but.
[00:00:30] We got somebody in Italy right now. She is the host of the newly started mull and wine podcast. Don Melissa, welcome to Liquor Talk. And thank you for joining me all the way from Italy. How are you doing today?
[00:00:55] I'm.
[00:00:56] There might be a delay.
[00:01:00] There might be a delay. I can hear you. I think there's a delay. Yeah. I'm sorry.
[00:01:08] You're good.
[00:01:10] Okay.
[00:01:12] All right.
[00:01:14] Can't hear me now.
[00:01:16] I can, I can hear you.
[00:01:17] Thank you.
[00:01:20] All right.
[00:01:22] I was saying was how does it feel to be a black person in Italy?
[00:01:29] Well,
[00:01:31] I gotta say it was never on my list to live in Italy.
[00:01:37] I've never even a visit to be honest like it just Italy's never been on my radar. So coming here once, once I knew I was going to be living here and I was and I was visiting and stuff. It was all shiny and new and exciting because
[00:01:55] I guess I was interacting with like Italian real Italians and experiencing delicious Italian food and wine. And there's some beautiful areas in Italy. So everything was just amazing. But also it was a little overwhelming because I'm black.
[00:02:17] And I
[00:02:21] It's not just that they're like, oh, she's black. She's different. It's like
[00:02:27] The fascination, the fascination it was it was overwhelming. I wasn't used to having that kind of attention or scrutiny.
[00:02:37] Some of it was good. Most of it was, you know, not so great.
[00:02:43] So in the beginning it was like, I don't know if I can handle this. It was a lot but seven years later is just life.
[00:02:52] You know people at least in my town people seem to have calmed down more black people have moved here in my town. And then I guess more black people are coming to Italy so you know
[00:03:05] It can still be stressful but it's at least I can be a little more under the radar here than before.
[00:03:13] Okay, that sounds wonderful. So talk about your experience when you first got there like what was it like to be was it really bad to be under scrutiny?
[00:03:24] Well, it's funny because I come I come from a background of like acting and filmmaking and I'm also a middle child. So for me, oh you should have told me I should have brought I could have had something to drink.
[00:03:38] Oh, you know what? I forgot to bring my wine like of course I should have wine. Let me um okay sorry I interrupted myself.
[00:03:48] But yeah, I come from that background so I was kind of liking being in the spotlight. I had to take on the role like you know how Beyonce had Sasha fierce.
[00:04:03] I had to become I guess Don Melissa more so just to mask my anxiety or at least handle it I guess manage it more and also to just do because like I said it was a little bit overwhelming the amount of attention the amount of people who wanted to touch my hair or just touch any part of me without permission.
[00:04:29] Zero boundaries and then asking questions and some of them it was cool because they just wanted to speak English and they were like oh you're from Los Angeles like they were fascinated with me being an American that aspect but then the other ones it was clearly more about
[00:04:47] the realization and like you know racism and stuff. So it like I said in the beginning there was the good and there was the bad and the overwhelming seven years ago.
[00:05:00] That was amazing. How do you that's crazy you go you grew up in LA you end up in LA that is wow.
[00:05:07] It is crazy because like I said it was never the plan. Basically, I went to London left Los Angeles because I was like you know what I don't know if I can commit my entire 20s to to LA for film and TV and stuff.
[00:05:25] It was a lot. And so I said OK I'm just going to take a break I'm going to go to London and get my master's degree.
[00:05:33] And then so I'm living in London and I say this on my own podcast to like I'm like I feel like those were the best years of my life like I it was exciting scary.
[00:05:45] It was so amazing and I loved it and it's a huge city obviously. And I go from this huge city and three three huge cities New York LA and London to this tiny little town.
[00:05:56] And it plays like the the culture the square footage the size of the town in comparison which is why I felt like under this like scrutinized or under the microscope. It was it was a lot.
[00:06:12] The adjustment.
[00:06:14] Hmm.
[00:06:15] Was a lot.
[00:06:16] Wow. That sounds like it was definitely a lot and you're strong for making the adjustment now talk to the people about your podcast.
[00:06:23] The Muller wine podcast. What's that. What's your podcast about.
[00:06:28] OK so like years ago actually when I was living in London when I was living in London I had a web series on YouTube.
[00:06:36] It was called come wine with me and the premise of come wine with me with me complaining like literally just complaining about different things like stupid things you know while getting drunk like just drinking wine and getting drunk.
[00:06:55] And the purpose was to the more the more wine I drank the more unfiltered and unhinged I was supposed to be. It was supposed to be like it was comedy that pure comedy is what I was all about.
[00:07:09] And that's kind of what I've brought the podcast except like I'm older now. I like to think I'll look at things a little bit more introspectively. I don't know like everything's not so black and white and there's there's gray areas and
[00:07:26] And also the things I talk about like mull over you know obsess over analyze they're a little bit more grown up I guess a little bit more serious I suppose.
[00:07:42] And I'm still drinking wine and you know I still drinking so I'm still a little bit unfiltered I'm very much a filter still on the podcast.
[00:07:55] So I basically wanted to bring it back because I had so much fun. I was studying wine well specifically Italian wines in London I was holding hosting wine tasting and the more I learned about Italian wines the more I was like oh I could be sharing
[00:08:11] this while also being funny like getting to do my creative comedy stuff. And so I would review wines I would talk about the wine and then also complain and be like you know you got to pair this your mood pair this mood with this wine or whatever.
[00:08:29] So I guess I'm still doing the same thing like with more more than just Italian wines I feel like I'm going to do not all Italian wines is time.
[00:08:38] I feel you so stick with wines what's the biggest difference between Italian wine and American wine because I know you grew up in California which is wine country so what's the biggest difference between Italian wine and American wine.
[00:08:55] Well I have to be honest.
[00:08:58] The wine.
[00:09:00] I didn't know anything about it in America. I was definitely.
[00:09:06] It was definitely pretty much all whiskey and beer in in America.
[00:09:12] I would go to wine tastings and stuff and it was really just let me try let me try like knew nothing didn't care about the tours I don't care about the vineyard just give me the wine.
[00:09:24] And you know I guess it's due to like being young and everything so I didn't really know much about it I would say that at least I don't know in there's more options in where I am now in Europe.
[00:09:40] I have more access to more like more wines not.
[00:09:46] I mean I suppose there's this international shipping of the wine to America from Italy but I never would have known I never would have realized oh this is an Italian wine living in America.
[00:09:59] So I guess I can't really effectively coherently answer that question because I didn't know anything about why it's all good it's all good.
[00:10:07] Now now talk about living abroad.
[00:10:11] What's the biggest difference between living abroad and compared to living in the States.
[00:10:18] Well I guess seven years ago I would have told you it's just you understand how how how I guess how other people who are not Americans you learn very quickly what they actually think of us.
[00:10:37] And they see that we are talking seven years ago they see that we have actually I'm sorry I'm talking more 10 years ago.
[00:10:48] They see that we have privilege but we also I don't know our education system the way we do that were kind of like two outspoken especially British people they're like you they don't do things the way we Americans just say what we say we get to the point quickly.
[00:11:04] British people have a more like calm like not calmer but like I don't know I want to say passive aggressive but that sounds negative.
[00:11:14] They just have a different way of communicating so when I would speak my mind and kind of honestly not in a nasty way just disrespectful way but I would speak my mind like a normal American it was a thing it was a thing and then came the oh you Americans attitude.
[00:11:30] And so that that was a huge because it's true I guess you could say when you're in America you're thinking I'm American it's all about being in American you know like we're not thinking about the rest of the world I suppose and we don't know as much because
[00:11:46] it's our education system but is that is what I'm trying to say so it's true they're right when we say oh when they say you don't know anything you don't care anything about the rest of the world is true it's so true.
[00:11:57] And I had to relearn I had to just what I had to unlearn my American way of thinking and actually have an interest in other countries and cultures and how the rest of the world worked, especially coming to Italy.
[00:12:14] So actually coming to Italy, if I wanted to, I guess, survive or function here.
[00:12:23] The way we do things in America like you have to let that go and adapt to the way they do things in like for me it was England and then Italy.
[00:12:33] So, but nowadays I would say the difference is I feel safer as a black woman just in general outside of the US.
[00:12:46] Really really say.
[00:12:48] So why do you feel safer outside safer outside of the US compared to being in the US.
[00:12:55] Because of how, how quickly things it seems like it's been it's been very quick like a blink of the eye like for things to change in America.
[00:13:06] But with the laws, the police brutality which I feel like I was never aware of growing up in America like I just didn't know that it was so bad with the police and black people.
[00:13:21] I was in a little bubble, even in America and women's rights cost of living everything just seems to have to be so terrible right now in America from where I'm sitting and to the point where like you hear the Europeans when they say oh you Americans.
[00:13:40] I'm kind of nodding along now now I'm like oh yeah that looks really bad, like cost of living over here and I'm not going to include the UK in that because they're suffering as well but cost of living over here in Italy and other parts of Europe is like it's doable.
[00:13:57] It's not.
[00:14:00] I don't know the health care that just seems like in a way is just not as dire over here is it feels as it looks in America and then pertaining to me specifically as a black woman.
[00:14:12] I just I feel like what is this like no, no rights no autonomy rights no agency over my body all that being taken away in America. No I I don't want any part of that.
[00:14:29] So that's the biggest difference for me.
[00:14:32] So what would your biggest advice be to anyone considering leaving America because yours truly over here is contemplating because I see all the mess you got to deal with over here and I'm like, it's like really better off somewhere else because do I need to become a password bro and say to hell with all this mess.
[00:14:50] No, don't say password bro. That's a whole other thing. Don't be a password bro. But I do think that if you can live abroad. Try it like do it. The biggest advice I would give you is research places where the cost of living is, you know, attainable like it I mean sorry it's not so high and crazy.
[00:15:18] So you can be comfortable, I guess without taking away from the people who live there and causing them to suffer.
[00:15:28] That's another conversation but like I would research, I would join there's there's groups that they have now where they're like helping black people get information they need to to leave America and live somewhere else.
[00:15:43] So I would definitely research countries, you know, job opportunities cost of living where you might feel. I feel like you're going to feel safer probably anywhere else but America right now but where you might feel a little safer as a black man or black person in general.
[00:16:02] I would do all that and then of course wherever you decide to go make sure you don't be like me make sure you study the culture, understand the norms first and then you know if there's a language thing get on that as soon as possible.
[00:16:18] Because that right now that's I get I have adapted you know I've figured it out like in terms of how Italians do think I've adapted I've accepted it. Some of it's still weird to me like, you know but there was something that's weird to you.
[00:16:36] I think my biggest kind of not gripe with Italians is because a gripe I suppose it makes me uncomfortable like then everyone's always saying all Americans have this individualism type thing and they kick their kids out at 18 and that's true and that's weird you know that when you look back on it it's like 18 is still a child why are you kicking me out of the house.
[00:17:04] Even 25 still feels like I'm a child let me live here in America, although that might be changing but in Italy it's they have that as well when it comes to like strangers or whatever people they don't know.
[00:17:18] If I see something happening or whatever to someone I might intervene I might help them, or like even my neighbor like my neighbors you know it's like we're right here we live right next to each other but we don't interact and so it just makes me wonder I'm like if there was a disaster.
[00:17:39] Would we help each other like I mean in my head I think oh I'm out of sugar let me go see if my neighbor has some sugar or I might be telling my age here a little bit but let me see if I can borrow some eggs or whatever from the neighbor but that's unheard of like don't even it's like you're very weird.
[00:17:58] Depending it depends.
[00:18:00] That's my kind of thing I'm like y'all aren't all that community minded either and also you know if you grew up in the same town, you're not.
[00:18:13] You're not necessarily open to making new friends and allowing new people in your life well that is a thing here in Italy and other Italians would agree to like they're like I grew up with my friends I've known that since I was five.
[00:18:28] I'm not in the market for new friends and so being a part of a community and getting involved and it's near impossible as a foreigner but as a black person even more so.
[00:18:44] So that is you know I'm not going to be the token black girl in Italy.
[00:18:50] Please don't be the token black and that's the one thing I said I don't want to be I don't be that token black person because I was that token black person in high school it wasn't fun you know I'm saying I need to be around some more melanated people you feel me.
[00:19:06] Yeah, it's true all my life was token black girl.
[00:19:09] I mean I was is uncomfortable scary looking back I'm like I can't I'm so glad to survive that there's no way any of those white people have my back.
[00:19:19] Or what it helps me in any way.
[00:19:21] But I still had friends, but here I feel like in Italy you're not you're not going to be the token black person you're not going to be the anything because these people have their friends and they're not interested in you unless they're an Italian man and they want to sleep with you.
[00:19:38] Which that's a whole big thing and this is where the Italy is where I learn.
[00:19:43] Oh, men and women can't be friends like I never felt that way before in my life until I moved here because these Italian men they let you know if we're not smashing don't talk to me.
[00:19:55] That was another adjustment for me.
[00:19:58] Wow so I guess I guess now you didn't tell me it's how you meant an American man because a time they just direct with it.
[00:20:05] It's the American men.
[00:20:07] It's like we we are actions would tell you that hey we won't just to happen and we were okay with being friendly and stuff.
[00:20:16] We because we want to be friends and stuff but I see a time in Illinois direct with the day they are you know what I'm the.
[00:20:26] I guess on the one hand it's like.
[00:20:30] At least I'm not wasting my time that there's no games being played I suppose on the other hand it's real disrespectful it's like you're letting me know you're not even human to me your your parts.
[00:20:43] You know like that's that's what I got from it because I have actually had like non like.
[00:20:51] Completely platonic no romantic interest male friends and I never I never felt so disrespected by never I feel like I was never disrespected by men until I moved to Italy.
[00:21:03] To the point where I actually said this to an Italian man once and he looked at me and he's like really like how is that possible that's how far behind mentally these men are here the patriarchy all that misogyny is like a hundred times worse here and it's like.
[00:21:20] It's out there it's just out there for you to see there's nothing hidden about it no secret.
[00:21:26] And the a lot of the women kind of like uphold it either they don't recognize what's going on and they're like well that's just how that's just how it is here that's their mantra that's just how it is here.
[00:21:43] And then it's okay with it.
[00:21:45] I don't know if they're okay with it.
[00:21:47] I don't I don't know if they're okay with it.
[00:21:51] I think a lot of them don't realize it they don't know don't recognize it because even in America all over the world women are just learning to dissenter men and like recognize what's going on and kind of realize we're not we shouldn't be playing second fiddle and everything shouldn't revolve around men.
[00:22:09] Okay, all over the world we're just kind of learning that I'm I probably never would have seen any of it.
[00:22:18] You know, and if I hadn't moved to Italy.
[00:22:21] So they kind of taught me something here but but but I think some of them do kind of uphold it like they're like what's wrong with it I don't I don't and I get there's when you got those type of people.
[00:22:35] There's no arguing with them there's just okay let you live in that reality and I'll be over here because these I tell you these time and even if I call them out on it they see nothing wrong with it.
[00:22:48] And I know part of that is is a fetishization of me as a black woman but another part of it is that yeah.
[00:22:55] You know that you're just a woman.
[00:22:58] You are just a woman.
[00:22:59] That is sick you know I'm saying that's something I'm like, like you know saying we all have our intentions but even if something don't happen I have plenty of women that I'm still cool with you know I'm saying nothing happened you know I'm saying but because over here we know happy friends and you never know what you need a friend right but I guess over there it's I guess it's a little more black and white over there.
[00:23:25] It's definitely more black and white over here like it for like I said first of all they have their childhood friends.
[00:23:32] Growing up and those are there might be some people the thing is that I feel like I've met some people who a few very, very few who have been a little bit more like open minded forward thinkers.
[00:23:46] But they're still a part of that group so they haven't quite been able to you know be on their like branch out learn more discover more.
[00:23:57] Sorry my wine has arrived.
[00:24:01] I ordered wine and it arrived.
[00:24:04] But yeah they they they haven't been able to exactly totally get out unless they lived out of the country then there's a different mentality there but I know they're not all like that it's just hard to like to get them away from the crowd to do their own thing.
[00:24:23] And that's the other thing a lot of Italians have told me I'm not going to say all in case there are Italians listening so not all Italians and not all men but a lot of Italians have told me that you know for the most part they care what other people think.
[00:24:38] And so they are afraid to try new things because it's just not how it's done here is the I'm quoting and that is huge for me.
[00:24:47] I never care what people think.
[00:24:51] I've never been that girl and so it's never been hard for me to stand out and be the odd ball out and be the weird one.
[00:24:59] Like I said I'm a middle child.
[00:25:01] I've always been weird.
[00:25:03] So it's that is bizarre to me.
[00:25:06] Yeah, I feel you know even even come from being the oldest you know say it's definitely definitely bizarre and hearing is so bizarre.
[00:25:15] Ladies and gentlemen this is look at talk the more you drink the better we sound go ahead subscribe if you haven't done so already.
[00:25:22] Is that part of you that misses America do you miss your family and friends back in America.
[00:25:28] I'm not going to lie.
[00:25:30] Yeah, there's a part of me that I definitely miss my family.
[00:25:34] I think after and I'll tell you I haven't been back to California in 10 years since the day I left.
[00:25:40] So it's not I don't really I don't think there's anything that I really miss there except for the beach and the sunshine but I can get that here in Italy.
[00:25:49] I go to the sea pretty often but so I don't know what I missed there except maybe access to other black women and like knowledge of what's new in terms of the beauty industry like hair makeup clothes like I see them on tiktok and I'm like dang I wish they shipped to Italy because I can't get like different products and stuff that I was doing.
[00:26:10] I don't know what I want so I miss that but I miss my I miss my family I miss my mom and that's really it though I miss some food I miss food I miss American who like black American food so much I try to tell these people about bake mac and cheese where the first time I made baked mac and cheese for Italians.
[00:26:33] I still they're they still they still can't wrap their head around it like because you know they are the pasta people they are yeah they're like you're taking pasta and you're putting it in the oven what is this I don't understand.
[00:26:47] And it was cute at first you know it's like cute oh you let me I'm introducing something to you from my culture from my country and I thought oh you know the sharing of idea the exchanging of cultural stuff.
[00:27:03] Listen, my pauses indicate that I that I'm trying to keep from cursing because I don't know if you if you know you.
[00:27:09] Okay.
[00:27:11] Okay, I curse.
[00:27:13] Like I'm thinking we're doing an exchange of ideas and whatever they're judging me they're like this is wrong. This is disgusting what what is this and but then they eat it.
[00:27:24] No no no they eat it but it's a whole convert it's like it's like first before they eat it they're like what is this like why would you do this why would you know and then I make it and it's not as good as my mom's or my aunt's or my mother's.
[00:27:40] Or my sister is of course but like it's what I this is what I have I give you this and then they eat it and then they're like okay it's good but then they're still like but it doesn't make sense.
[00:27:50] Like why would you do that.
[00:27:52] But you should hear them talk about pineapple on pizza they will do never tell an Italian you're going to have pineapple on pizza they will blow a gasket.
[00:28:04] They that they will not stand for.
[00:28:06] They blow a gasket on pineapple. Now I'm one of those people that I don't like pineapple I'm not crazy on pineapple pizza but I'm not about to blow a gasket to my people like it love it go for I'm not going to trip about it but they trip about that.
[00:28:24] Yeah they were I was very surprised is aggressive is aggressive how they hate that pineapple and pizza it's like the thing it justifies their not hatred.
[00:28:36] America.
[00:28:38] But they're like judgment.
[00:28:40] The first thing they'll tell you what don't you like about America's they eat pasta they eat pineapple on pizza. They're crazy.
[00:28:48] I have to agree I never like pineapple pizza.
[00:28:51] Yeah I'm just not that serious about it.
[00:28:56] You like pizza.
[00:28:58] No I like pizza I just don't like pineapple pizza because it just tastes weird to me.
[00:29:03] It is weird but the thing is if you ever come to Italy they and what's normal to them is probably going to be very different to us because the most I ever did with pizza was like pepperoni and like green peppers and pepperoni right.
[00:29:21] That's me they don't have that here though look at you like you're crazy they're like it's it's what are you talking there's no such thing as pepperoni they they call the pepperoni the green peppers and
[00:29:32] so that's different so I'm like I have to adjust my palate but some of the things they put on their pizzas.
[00:29:38] In the end it tastes good but it's still like what what is this you know I'm trying to think of an example.
[00:29:45] And made you like all kinds of things.
[00:29:51] I go to this place where they and I love this place this pizza place where they they just the people just bring around trays of pizza and do you want this one you say yes you say no you want this one yes or no whatever and it's endless it's our bottomless pizza I guess until you don't want anymore
[00:30:09] and very affordable by the way like so cheap to eat here.
[00:30:14] But the one thing that's like my favorite pizza right now is pumpkin like pumpkin and cream on your pizza it's delicious but you know how that.
[00:30:28] No pizza regular pizza.
[00:30:30] Yeah that sounds like a dessert pizza me pumpkin and cream on a pizza that sounds like a pizza you eat at dessert or dessert or something.
[00:30:39] And it's yeah I can I can understand that I get it you know it's how they feel about our like our cornbread they're like no this is I make cornbread for them some Italians here and they're like oh no this is for the end right this is like for dessert with our coffee.
[00:31:00] And I tell them that's not dessert honey that goes with the meal.
[00:31:05] Cornbread.
[00:31:07] So I haven't made the fried chicken and cover me so don't.
[00:31:11] Oh I did no not collard greens I have not there's no as far as I know there's no collard greens here so I haven't had that in 10 years and that's bad but I have made the fried chicken.
[00:31:22] How do you how do they take the fried chicken.
[00:31:25] Again a very new experience for them it's it's it's almost delightful watching them try something new and I think it I think they liked it.
[00:31:36] I remember them saying they liked it and it was good but I don't know if they were humoring me you know you know I'll tell you this much not all but pretty much every Italian.
[00:31:49] I've met personally when they go to other countries when they do travel they eat Italian food.
[00:31:57] What the hell is wrong with them.
[00:32:00] Not all not all I would just put that up there but but like that is my experience also when they moved to other countries they only have Italian friends.
[00:32:10] Do you see what I'm saying about the yeah they're very close minded you know I'm saying like now I thought I was going to say that.
[00:32:18] I would think the same way I just I'm trying to go somewhere where the black people are but I will be open minded.
[00:32:25] I mean if somebody of another race want to be friends and want to show me the ropes I'd be able to I won't be oblivious to it but I definitely see my black people first but I'm still open minded to where I see somebody of another culture help me out.
[00:32:37] I'm definitely going to show him some love.
[00:32:39] Yeah same I mean I came here definitely wanting to make Italian friends for sure like I went after that.
[00:32:47] And I did it also when I was in London living in London with you know British people but oh God I can't even but it's just you know but I also wanted black friends.
[00:33:00] Yeah I'm like especially black female friends.
[00:33:03] It was an opportunity to to branch out from what I was used to back in America but the first and foremost I want to engage with the people who are from that country I want to engage with that culture.
[00:33:17] I find it very odd odd that you you live in a place like certain people that I know you live here for 10 years and you only have Italian friends very odd.
[00:33:29] Yeah it is very odd but you know you have some people here in America that I said they ways to you know saying I really want to be out and stuff so.
[00:33:38] That's true.
[00:33:40] I'm going to shift to a personal how's the dating scene there because I know you told me how the men are fashion and stuff.
[00:33:48] Did you did your own stumble across the one yet over there or how is it over there.
[00:33:52] I will say.
[00:33:55] Like I said before in the beginning it was very overwhelming the amount of attention that I got that was mostly from Italian men.
[00:34:04] I'm not saying I was ugly growing up that I got no attention from it but I never experienced anything like that.
[00:34:13] It was it was very overwhelming and then it was also a little flattering you know like okay I guess that you know and I think personally that
[00:34:25] a lot of Italian men are very good looking they're very attractive you're not going to find a lot of tall ones and many of them look alike with like the dark hair the brown eyes and the beard.
[00:34:36] You know the facial hair or whatever but so I have good things to say about Italian men but I also would tell any black woman and I'll get to my thoughts on black men but like I would tell any black women to use discernment.
[00:34:54] You know when it comes to time and like watch their the way they talk to watch their body language watch how they treat you in public versus private because they can even though even though they let you know that they're not trying to be your friend like even if they're
[00:35:10] even if you're open to dating them or whatever it's still a level of respect that you have to make sure they give you as a black woman and that might be like I said the being fetish fetish eyes was new for me.
[00:35:25] I never I knew I never experienced that in the past like I've never felt like I said like an object in my life until I moved to Italy.
[00:35:34] So no I don't think it's a bad thing I think depending on where you go in Italy you you might have some difficulty dating but it's not impossible.
[00:35:43] But most importantly don't let that be your main objective coming to Italy because you're probably going to be disappointed.
[00:35:52] Like that shouldn't be your main objective.
[00:35:55] Let it happen if it's supposed to happen.
[00:35:58] Right.
[00:36:00] That part I definitely agree with it.
[00:36:02] I've had them take a step back on some things and just you know just let them happy you know just roll with what was working and just let it happen.
[00:36:09] So I definitely feel you there and I mean do you see any brothers there in.
[00:36:15] Yeah yeah I do.
[00:36:17] And again like it again it's so lovely living in Europe because you're seeing black men who aren't American like from all over the world and it's so lovely like not just black men but like black people in general like you're like wait a minute there are there are black people in Ireland and then like you're actually.
[00:36:39] Irish you know you have the you're a born here you're Irish and it's just so lovely like doing that but okay black men in Italy I have only met maybe one or two black Americans black black male Americans everyone else has been.
[00:36:54] You know like from different countries or whatever mostly most of the black men that I've met are Nigerian which is fine.
[00:37:04] Obviously I think they have a lot more luck obviously with women here then with Italian women or women in general here then black women do the other way around.
[00:37:20] But it's again it's still a matter of like respect and you know because you can get yourself an Italian woman and it could be just a casual thing no intention of the of you getting married or even sharing that generational wealth or whatever.
[00:37:40] You know just that sexual object that could be what they want like what those women want.
[00:37:48] It's entirely pop like anywhere it's entirely possible for black men to be reduced to their size.
[00:37:55] The other really weird thing that I have encountered so much with Italian men is how openly they ask me about the size of black men of their member you know saying.
[00:38:11] What is wrong with them man.
[00:38:13] The obsession with.
[00:38:15] That is disingenuous.
[00:38:18] I don't even think about that.
[00:38:23] What the fuck is wrong with them man.
[00:38:26] Ask them about their size.
[00:38:28] And it's specifically black men too.
[00:38:31] It's like it's we and these are straight men these these time and who are asking they're straight so it's not like they're.
[00:38:37] They sound gay to me.
[00:38:39] I know you say this.
[00:38:41] They don't get to me.
[00:38:42] No.
[00:38:44] It's true the most I'm wondering about like another woman is I don't know I don't even I don't think about that like I'm not wondering what another woman like feels like you know whatever.
[00:38:55] It's weird it's weird and it may be so uncomfortable because I'm I'm just like why are you asked yeah I feel like I would still be offended if it was you know a white woman asking but I'm less you know creeped out by it.
[00:39:14] Yeah.
[00:39:16] It's true I have wondered about other men like how old they might be in you know in in bed or whatever like are they generous are they selfish or you know whatever they two seconds like whatever you wonder those things as a woman and you might ask another woman that but as a man asking me.
[00:39:35] Other men specifically their size it is it was very weird surprising.
[00:39:43] I didn't have porn stars come on I didn't have a don't intense come through progress I never asked them no shit like that that's just a human to ask to hear asked a woman about another man size that's just a human you know I might ask a question like the size really matter but I'm not about to ask them about specifically a man size.
[00:40:04] This man size that's that's a human.
[00:40:08] And I've told them like because you know I'm not going to answer that question I say size doesn't doesn't matter which you need to be worried about is whether you you're pleasing the woman you're with like do you first of all do you like the woman that you're with you.
[00:40:22] You like her as a human being.
[00:40:25] Are you actually attracted to her deep you know like or if you don't like her if you don't care about her then first of all leave her alone but secondly if you if you know what you're doing.
[00:40:35] Then the size doesn't matter you know so I guess I got a little bit protective of black men in that respect is probably the first time that I ever thought about black men being with non black women like it was just never something I cared about.
[00:40:50] Before again my whole mentality changed when I moved to Italy it's like all these facts and truth the truths about the world were thrown in my face and I had to.
[00:41:04] I had to grow up I guess come out of my bubble.
[00:41:07] Because it's crazy.
[00:41:11] It's crazy.
[00:41:13] And that people wanted to travel abroad is going to experience the truth the truths about things that you just don't have to come out your bubble about.
[00:41:21] You're definitely going to and the thing is yeah you're definitely going to have to come out of a bubble.
[00:41:26] Move out of America.
[00:41:27] Move out of America.
[00:41:29] But OK so let me just I'm from North New Jersey.
[00:41:34] I was born there.
[00:41:36] So I've seen the real world you know like in terms of how like black neighborhoods.
[00:41:43] Then I was pulled out of that and I went to white schools and had to learn to code switch and all that kind of stuff.
[00:41:49] And it just you everything that you knew about the world was happening on the other side of the block or the train tracks whatever so to speak.
[00:42:01] So I was in that bubble away from the real world like what happened to black people what happened to you know massage and war all that kind of stuff I wasn't understanding I wasn't seeing it because I was always with the white people.
[00:42:12] And the only I think the only in reality just completely left when I went to film school because I'm living in my my bubble of make believe you know and these are the people that I am in the world with the other creatives the other filmmakers the other writers.
[00:42:30] And again the real world you know doesn't exist even in California.
[00:42:35] You know I would I would say yes I'm broke but I'm like bougie broke you know like it did it none of it mattered because I'm in my world of make believe and when you go outside of America and you realize what other people think of Americans that's the first blow to your ego the first blow to your
[00:42:55] like the first you know sign of reality like the reality checks you have to get and that sucked that really sucked like that reality check was really hard to to accept.
[00:43:07] And then you kind of real you start to see relationships male and female relationships and how they actually have been for other people.
[00:43:16] I might have known it sooner if I was more of a dater if I dated you know in America but I didn't I was you know in long term relationships.
[00:43:26] I never really dated to be honest I guess I don't really have a lot of experience with different men.
[00:43:31] So I didn't understand anything I feel like if I had.
[00:43:36] I told this one per I told someone recently who's like really good at dating.
[00:43:42] I said the one year it's like one year of being single and I was trying to date I got played so much because I had no idea how men acted how I was supposed to act or anything I was just super innocent and naive and trusting and like you know I got played you know so that but then it was like OK that was that and then I'm in relationships long term relationships.
[00:44:07] After that and I never really look back at it but now it's like OK I see that there might be.
[00:44:16] A lot of issues in the black community between black men and black women I see that now and.
[00:44:22] And you know just like black women being expected to stay in the race would only be with black men but then also having to settle and then but when we go out and date other people or have higher standards or whatever.
[00:44:41] Then it's a problem where the problem and I never thought that that's how men thought of us and I never thought that that black women were ever settling or ever believing that.
[00:44:52] They can only be with black men or that black men were the only people that could love them didn't learn any of that till I moved to Italy.
[00:45:00] A whole not even black Americans but like.
[00:45:05] Not non-American black people this they're the ones that have been short of showing me this and then of course there's TicToc so there you go.
[00:45:15] TicToc they trying to ban over here you know I'm saying which don't make any sense I'm like all these damn issues that in America I'm trying to ban TicToc but that's another conversation from the day but.
[00:45:26] I definitely I definitely feel you know it's like it's definitely an eye opener but and even as me and be growing up over here it's like I've always just been loyal to my sisters no matter what you know I'm saying it's just.
[00:45:41] I haven't even looked away of another another race woman because I went to I graduated from a HBCU so it's like it's kind of hard to look at other races and women when they were all right there you're like damn one day but.
[00:45:56] And I kind of you on being single getting played it's just you got to a point where you just you just chilling out you know what I ain't doing nobody because we don't know if you trying to be a player you trying to be real or you might be real until your ex boyfriend show up so.
[00:46:13] Wait oh you mean for you.
[00:46:15] Is for me for a lot of people I know.
[00:46:17] Over here I don't know how it is for you right now.
[00:46:20] Oh no I.
[00:46:22] I'm not I'm not single.
[00:46:24] I'm not single but I'm and I did I did get lucky I got a good Italian I shouldn't say that I shouldn't say like that but I did I got one who was travels like he I met him basically his first day going to LL.
[00:46:42] Like he went to L.
[00:46:43] A. He was at my favorite bar his first day I said oh okay you're Italian and okay cool and I said well you're mine you're done you're not going to meet anyone else while you're here all day and I couldn't say those words but that's how that worked out.
[00:46:57] I don't think if I come to Italy and met someone who'd never left the country never seen a black person before like I don't I don't think it would have been for me a positive experience.
[00:47:12] I think if I was single here in Italy now I would still be struggling trying not to get played and dealing with that like dealing with the craftiness of men but also dealing with the fear of being like disrespected fetishized and all that kind of stuff like as a black woman so.
[00:47:31] Yeah it's just I don't I don't know but I don't I don't want to discourage black people from exploring Italy and experiencing it and staying open to Italians because things are changing like the more diverse this country becomes despite you know certain people trying to present it or prevent it that's fine.
[00:47:54] The more people have to learn the more Italians are going to have to learn and accept and hopefully embrace us or whatever so things are changing probably the younger generation is helping to push push that forward and change things so you honestly never know what you're going to get.
[00:48:14] Just protect yourself like stay safe and be discerning whether you're a black man or black woman.
[00:48:21] Yes black people got protect ourselves you know him because no man is getting crazy everywhere you know him because I read somewhere where they got a whole bunch of countries got ships lined up in the red sea right now so it's getting crazy.
[00:48:35] It's getting crazy.
[00:48:36] They they trying to go to war and stuff.
[00:48:40] It is.
[00:48:41] Yeah it's crazy.
[00:48:43] So what's one thing you wish you would did differently before traveling abroad.
[00:48:51] One thing I would have done differently.
[00:48:53] Well, like I said the first place I went to was was London and I was in grad school there so everything.
[00:49:02] I'm not going to lie everything from living and moving to London because I was like I was a part of a school system.
[00:49:10] So pretty much was taken care of for me taken care of for me and that was very easy going there as a student and then moving to Italy was also all taken care of for me because I had an Italian and his family handling that for me so that was all easy but I do wish that I had done a little bit more research.
[00:49:33] You know when it came to when it came to living in England like done a little bit more research on on British people.
[00:49:43] So I wouldn't have been so shocked at how closed off they are, despite their lovely polite accent like I missed a lot of the sarcasm, a lot of the passive aggressiveness a lot of the insults.
[00:49:57] I missed because I didn't really I thought oh British people are so nice you know their accents.
[00:50:05] Because they sound so nice like I missed a lot of it went over my head, and I wish I'd done more research on that I also wish I'd like, like found out more about black British people before going.
[00:50:19] Because they definitely hurt my feelings going over there, like you can't just walk into a black British person and be like we're friends were the same.
[00:50:28] No, you're not.
[00:50:29] You're not and they will let you know they're even more closed off to you as an American and as a black American then the white people would be in my personal experience.
[00:50:45] You're not getting invited to their home. I don't care how many years.
[00:50:49] Okay, how many years you know black Brit, you're probably never going to get invited to their home if you're not one of them, you know, Nigerian or something like just for example, which is you know I had to accept that.
[00:51:07] Just how it is.
[00:51:09] That's real. That's real.
[00:51:12] Excuse me.
[00:51:14] So what's your plans for your podcast.
[00:51:18] Plans for my podcast.
[00:51:21] What I really want to do is kind of reach a community of people, you know, especially women to kind of laugh and kikki with but also maybe tackle some of the things that we are, we kind of go through that we might be experiencing.
[00:51:39] I'm hoping to, I've always wanted to be a part of like a community of black women and get to know them and find out more about them and their lives and stuff like before when I first moved here.
[00:51:54] I had these projects going on where I was trying to connect with other black girls in Italy, and it was going fine for a while and then it was kind of new but then more black women started doing it especially black American women.
[00:52:09] And they, you know, so now they're doing it.
[00:52:12] And that's good for them. I love that for them. They were able to make it into a bigger thing than I was.
[00:52:19] So that that that's what I want now again for mullin wine podcast.
[00:52:27] I like I want to find out about the stuff that other people can't let go.
[00:52:34] Like we should let go of, but we won't be able to until we like analyze it and really like talk about it. Because I don't know if you're like this I don't know who else is like this but I have like cringe memories, you know, from years and years and
[00:52:52] I know a lot of them have always been in an awkward situation at one time or another in my life and it's funny to tell those stories, it can be cathartic to share them and and just not have them, you know, in my head or in my heart just for myself to cringe at every two seconds.
[00:53:08] So that's what I want I want to share those stories. And I want other people to share their stories so we know that we're not alone.
[00:53:16] Like just cringe. I'm sure there's something cringe that you you did as a child or not a child but you've done in your life, something that's happened to you and and you know and you maybe keep it to yourself or maybe you know.
[00:53:31] I don't know maybe people know about it.
[00:53:33] I have plenty of cringe stories I've shared them on other podcasts, and some and some have kept me from some cringe stories have kept me from reconnecting with other podcasters as well so it's some things.
[00:53:48] And no grudges and I like that I'm not sitting here mad with the person I'm just like, because of this cringe story of this situation I'm like, yeah I'm not going to reach out to you again.
[00:54:00] You know, so I know.
[00:54:06] Yeah, I definitely have that too. And I think that because of the fact that I keep going over and over in my head and it's just, it's just me thinking about it. I always doubt myself like I'm like oh I'm embarrassed this is my fault I you know,
[00:54:25] Meanwhile they get to move on and not think about me or the situation when they also contributed to the cringe you know to the to the issue, but I'm the one who hasn't let it go.
[00:54:36] And I feel like yeah I want I want to bring more people into that so we can all share our stories.
[00:54:42] We can all hopefully heal from it and let it go while we're while we're drinking wine or whatever you want to.
[00:54:49] Listen, yeah I might need some wine for these stories but yeah like I definitely agree we all have the cringe stories that we all let go of me why this person probably living their best life.
[00:55:01] They might be if you run to me personally they might be happy to see you and you may and they don't understand it when they get that death stare from you and just or they just get cold shoulder from you and then they now understand
[00:55:12] why I'm like, maybe because I haven't healed from it but I've just determined I'm not going to associate with you.
[00:55:23] Or if they're like if you're like me. Oh sorry go ahead.
[00:55:27] No go ahead you got it.
[00:55:31] I'm just saying that you know you say death stare cold shoulder or if you're like me you kind of run or hide or just have that.
[00:55:39] I know the face that I make when I'm uncomfortable or when I remember it like I do this face and I can feel myself making the doing the expression I can't stop it.
[00:55:49] And it doesn't go.
[00:55:52] It just there was a very embarrassing situation that I was in with a person and and every time I would see this person.
[00:56:05] Oh hey Don how are you in my face.
[00:56:08] You know, to me remembering that that embarrassing moment and then after a while they would notice it.
[00:56:15] And it would they would be offended.
[00:56:17] They would be offended by my expression.
[00:56:19] It was a you know an interaction of physical interaction that was just so cringe and I think they took a they took offense to it because they're realizing
[00:56:30] that they're out of that moment and they're like oh maybe maybe feeling inadequate but finally they left me alone and I was like good because I that is so cringe to me that that moment happened.
[00:56:44] Yeah, it's bad.
[00:56:49] We all have our.
[00:56:52] I'll have our bad friends moments.
[00:56:55] So tell people why they need to subscribe to your podcast.
[00:56:59] Please subscribe to my podcast because it's going to be funny and lit. I guess are we still saying lit.
[00:57:10] We're still saying okay.
[00:57:12] It's going to be funny to be lit hopefully it'll be informative like I mean I'm not trying like I know I haven't really cursed a lot here I've also had I've barely had a glass of wine so it seems like I'm going to be all tame and vanilla and shit like that I'm not.
[00:57:26] I like I said I am unfiltered sometimes unhinged and I just like to have fun.
[00:57:32] And I would love for people to kind of join in and have these unserious discussions with me while we you know while we get a little tipsy.
[00:57:43] Yeah, see now when you bring me on you just got to let me know when and I definitely have some liquor to go with the wine because even though I'm in the United States I'm in Florida United States I'm just a damn away.
[00:57:55] That's the beautiful thing about technology.
[00:57:57] We can make shit happen even though we five a country, a whole continent away and stuff.
[00:58:05] So when you ever you're ready to have me bring me on I'm ready to go.
[00:58:09] Definitely I've been I think I've been following you a while I just it just took me some courage to finally be like oh hi bring me on as a guest.
[00:58:20] So, I'm glad that because I definitely want you on mull and wine.
[00:58:25] And, you know, it'd be good.
[00:58:28] What are you drinking?
[00:58:30] I'm sipping I'm sipping a wine cooler.
[00:58:34] A little Mike's Har lemonade ain't a special because all of all of because today I get chance to go to the liquor store you know Sam because the liquor store won't open this morning or so.
[00:58:46] I'm not making fun of you I just haven't I haven't heard of Mike's I haven't.
[00:58:52] You know what I'm saying like I haven't heard of Mike's Har lemonade in so long like you just took me back.
[00:58:57] Way back.
[00:58:59] That's kind of cool.
[00:59:02] That's what's up, you know, I said, well, that should tell you it's been so long maybe you need to take a trip to America when it's not so crazy.
[00:59:12] Yeah, you know what I think I'm hoping it'll calm down soon.
[00:59:17] I'm nervous though about Florida. I don't know y'all.
[00:59:21] They're taking away a lot of stuff.
[00:59:24] Hey you gotta plug it out in Florida the beaches are still here they take away the beaches so
[00:59:33] get so
[00:59:35] I'm never gonna take those away.
[00:59:38] I did want to say I was kind of jealous when you said that you went to a black school historically back black college or whatever.
[00:59:46] Looking back I remember when I finished NYU I was like dang, I should have gone to a black college like I that would have been my opportunity to meet black people who think like me, you know black people I met at NYU they think
[01:00:01] different.
[01:00:03] I might have to bring you to a homecoming you'll be surprised.
[01:00:08] And I've been seeing stuff like the the sororities and the fraternities and stuff like we didn't really have that and we didn't have that in my you don't think so.
[01:00:18] So I missed out on a lot.
[01:00:21] Yeah, but hey, I'm late to catch up.
[01:00:26] Are you sure because I mean they y'all have made your connections you got your lifelong friends now that you went to college I've nothing.
[01:00:35] Yeah, but I mean you still make connections just because you have your lifelong friends but some of those friendships fall off and you grow apart from those so you gotta make new connections to retool and meet always meet new people so
[01:00:49] not too late.
[01:00:51] That's true you're right except it's a little difficult here like I said in Italy because these people are like, I'm good.
[01:01:00] It sounds like well done I want to thank you for coming joining the liquor talk I know we in America you may time to come from all the way from Italy to make this international episode I definitely appreciate it.
[01:01:14] And I appreciate everybody listening to subscribers, we push for 300 y'all will be that soon.
[01:01:21] Until next time we out this thing y'all peace.
[01:01:30] Okay.